1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. What good of stuff 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: I never told your protection? I heart radio, and welcome 3 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: back to part two of the Myths of Virginity and Purity. 4 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: And here we're actually gonna be speaking a lot more 5 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: to purity and purity culture of what it looks like today. 6 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: But first, just a trigger warning. We're not really talking 7 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: in depth about anything really sexual or any of that. 8 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: We're just really talking more of analogies and present culture 9 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: and idea of absentence. But for those who have been 10 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: raised and maybe Southern Baptist cultures or Western Christian cultures, 11 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: this may be too much for you, and that's fine, 12 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: So just go ahead and put that here at the topics. 13 00:00:55,080 --> 00:01:00,959 Speaker 1: We're gonna dive deep into that the American idea of purity, 14 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: and sometimes I could be dramatic, especially if you've had 15 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: a falling out with religion, this might be a little 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: more traumatic. So f y, I right, So Annie, I 17 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: have to ask, and I already know this answer, but 18 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: I honestly I don't know if I know this answer. 19 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: Because you said you were pretty you grew up in 20 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: a religious town. Did you ever get involved in any 21 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: type of Christian organizations in school when you were in Delanaga, 22 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: which is a small town in Georgia. Yes, I didn't 23 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: get involved in school. Funnily enough, I once like really 24 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: embarrassed myself. I was in seventh grade and this popular 25 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: girl asked me in a very like in a clear 26 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: way that there's only one right answer, and she said, 27 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: are you a Christian? And I didn't know what that meant. 28 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: Even though I did go to church, I didn't know. 29 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: But I went through a period where it is really religious, 30 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: but in general I wasn't. That was like one hardcore 31 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: year of my life. I thought it was cool to 32 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: be religious. So I would go with my friends usually 33 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: over the summer. I would do like, you know, by 34 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: a vacation camp with them, with their churches. I would 35 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: do things like that. But I always felt like the 36 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: friend who can't be saved or something, a friend who's 37 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: like not enlightened enough to realize that she's gonna go 38 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: straight now. Oh God, Okay, So you would have been 39 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: that friend that I would have been trying to convert 40 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 1: in high school, I guess. So. I mean by high school, yeah, 41 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: I was already like nope, but not religious. But yeah, 42 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: this is middle school where I was interested in religion, 43 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: but I just never I don't know, it didn't really 44 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: take off of me again. Yeah, which is interesting because 45 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: in my in my school, the popular kids were the 46 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 1: first Baptist church kids and they were the president of 47 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: all the s e A. So uh, Christians athlete clubs. 48 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: You are part of that. You came in early mornings 49 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: to do the different Christian clubs to be a part 50 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,839 Speaker 1: of it. You weren't cool unless you went to church events. 51 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: And I couldn't afford it until way later. So I 52 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: was like ten to eleventh grade before I could go 53 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: to any of those things. But of course you also 54 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: know the tales that couples came out of these little 55 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: Christian camps as well. I was a die hard. When 56 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: it comes to anything emotional spiritual, I get caught up 57 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: in it. I love the beauty of of that being 58 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: swept into a moment, feeling that energy, and I got 59 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: caught all up in that. And it is and when 60 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: it comes to religion and sex, we know the lines. 61 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: It is very defined. And though value of virginity is international, 62 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: We've talked about this, we talked about this previously, is historical, 63 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: it's international when it comes to Western Christian ideology, specifically 64 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: in the US, the ideology of purity has a whole 65 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: new spin and a lot more money to it. So 66 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: we did want to talk about that in this episode. 67 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: And yes, again very we know it's very americanized in 68 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: this but it's such a fascinating subject to me that 69 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: if I were not in the middle of it and 70 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: it did not grow up in it, I would be 71 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: blown away. And and as you talked about, when you 72 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: visited like France, people are like, what is wrong with you? Yeah, 73 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: that was a real eye opener for me because, uh, 74 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: I don't know how it came up. But the Hose 75 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: family I was living with there was a woman a 76 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: little bit older than me at the time, so we 77 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: were both like, you know, eight nineteen, and she was like, oh, yeah, 78 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: my first time wasn't good. I barely remember, Like it's 79 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: not a big deal here, And I was like, what right? Right? 80 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: I find it funny because we talked about this earlier, 81 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: how you and I when I was doing this research. 82 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: Part of this research, I was looking at the cultural differences, 83 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: and again there's not a lot of cultural differences because 84 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: the value of women and autonomy, it's kind of overall. A. Yeah, 85 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,239 Speaker 1: women are valued lest everywhere, let's just be very honest. 86 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: But the idea that outside of the U S, most 87 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: cultures are like, yeah, white girls are sluts, right, they 88 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: don't they don't care, they are crazy, like It's it's 89 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: almost funny to me to see that level because I 90 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: don't think about that. And again, I'm Asian, and to me, 91 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: I've been fetishized since my childhood. I've been abused, you know, 92 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: in my childhood because a part of that and a 93 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: part of that appeal of young girls and and the 94 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: nastiness of pedophilia and all that that, I was a 95 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: part of that world and so all of that ruined 96 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: so much of the concepts to me in general. So 97 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: because I've already felt dirty, I already felt like an outsider. 98 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: I already felt like the other white girls were the 99 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: obvious preference of who I wish I was and what 100 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: people prefer. In my mind, of course we don't. That's 101 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: not true at all, but it's kind of funny when 102 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: we look at like I think one of the research 103 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: papers talked about how the Latin X women who had 104 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: grown up understanding sex was beautiful and they also valued 105 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,799 Speaker 1: their virginity and value this morality. But it wasn't about 106 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: waiting until marriage. It was just about waiting to find 107 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: someone you cared about and experiencing something beautiful in the story. 108 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: And this whole idea of waiting until marriage was so 109 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: absurd to them, in that idea of like, so you're 110 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: trapping yourself without knowing you're gonna you're gonna be happy, 111 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: Like that does serve why would why would you want 112 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: to do that? And that's kind of laughing, like, yeah, 113 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: I think I grew up when I finally realized that, 114 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: like twenty three that I'm like, I don't think I 115 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: want to be married. This is not this is not sustainable. 116 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: This idea is not sustainable. But I found that interesting 117 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: when you look outside that perspective of how different it 118 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: really is when it comes to the US and beyond. 119 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like, Okay, let's take this deep 120 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: dive because it's a hell of a tell. So purity 121 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: culture has been around the u US for quite some time, 122 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: but in the early nineties, conservative evangilists in the U 123 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: S Protestant groups organized the strategy one person called extreme abstinence, 124 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: and this was kind of a reaction to the MTV 125 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: Wild and Out kind of era where girls gone wild 126 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: was getting really popular at this point, the beach house 127 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: where girls, you know, we're dancing in bikinis, and all 128 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: of the old fashioned American families were like, oh my god, 129 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: what's happening to our kids. So the reaction was extreme abstinence. 130 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: Oh lord. So those who advocated for this would advise 131 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: girls and women to be submissive, stay away from leadership roles, 132 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: and conform to old ideals of courtship, not being in 133 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: mixed company unless regulated, and making sure they're guarding every 134 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: part of their preciousness. And when they speak of courtship, 135 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: the practice involves making sure that the interaction between women 136 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: and men were specifically to pursue an intent in marriage 137 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: under the explicit supervision and permission of the woman's father. 138 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: Nowhere are we talking about mothers in this, by the way, 139 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: and as one article explains, quote, this expectation is that 140 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: pure young women will remain under the authority of fathers 141 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: until they trade it for the authority of their husbands 142 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: and marriages arranged by their fathers. So they were going 143 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: all out and controlling from young to old. So we 144 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: got you from childhood all the way up, and we're 145 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: going to control every aspect, including dating, including meeting men, 146 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: including getting married. Of course, I know on Smentthy they've 147 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: talked about marriages and weddings and all of the bad 148 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: connotations to that and all of the nice connotations, But 149 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 1: how that is steeped in patriarchal traditions, and this is 150 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: kind of fulfilling and being a part of that as well. 151 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: Beyond just the practices of abstinence and submission, the movement 152 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: goes another step backwards. Yeah, I said it for young 153 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: girls and women, with the expectations that women would be 154 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: wholly responsible for not being temptations or stumbling blocks for men. 155 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: That women must be responsible by doing everything in their 156 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: power in regards to the way they talk, dress, or 157 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: act in a way that would not evoke sexual desire 158 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: from a man, because obviously men can't control themselves, duh 159 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: when it comes to sex everything else. I can control 160 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: our bodies, but they can't control their own bodies. And 161 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: if you've ever been a part of Sunday School, we 162 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: all learned how Eve is the mother of temptation, and 163 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: she is the one that caused Adam to send so 164 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: of course that's going to affect all of creation and humanity, 165 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, And I you know, we are speaking 166 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: in a lot of like generalizations and needs because that's 167 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: just the research that we have or the information that 168 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: we have. But I remember the first time I went 169 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: to the Vatican and I it was summer, and I 170 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: was in shorts and a tank chop and I tried 171 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: to go on one of the churches and these like 172 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: old men came running at me, screaming at me in 173 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: like shoot me out, and they were they had like 174 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: this thing they would cover you with to go in. 175 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm not trying to disrespect anybody's believe 176 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: our cultures, but it was just a moment of like, 177 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: holy hell, I can't even I was wearing shorts in 178 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: a day. It's not right or something, right, Um, but yeah, 179 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: feeling that shame like immediately just it drew so much 180 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: attention to me. It was so embarrassing, right, oh god. Yeah. 181 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: So this new strategy and not only pushed a powerful 182 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: narrative and movement, but yeah, it brought in a lot 183 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: of money, whether it was new books and steady guys 184 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: for church youth groups all over the country, retreats or 185 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: new programs. Um. There was money spent to push this narrative, 186 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: include geting large amounts of grants sent to schools and 187 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 1: organizations that taught abstinence only programs. My school was one 188 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: of those. I don't know if I take out any money, 189 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: but abstinence only was our education. So yeah, they would 190 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: because automatically that was the only qualifier. If you're willing 191 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: to not tach comprehensive sex said and do absence only, 192 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,839 Speaker 1: you get this federal grant. At that point in time, 193 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: Wow wow. And out of that, with the mega push 194 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: from mega churches and the Southern Baptist Convention, we have 195 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: programs like True Love Weights. Did you have this program? 196 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: We might have. I don't remember it, but I mean 197 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: it sounds familiar, something I heard about clearly and vividly. 198 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: See the signs. It was a giant banner. We had 199 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: a whole table in the cafeteria during lunch that kids 200 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: can go over and sign the cars. You got a sticker, 201 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: you gotta pen uh, you got a little swag, and 202 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: then you walked away. It was purple and white and 203 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: pink and it was super cute and True Love Weights 204 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: and then we had a huge conference about it US 205 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: an assembly for it. Well, well, I do think we're 206 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: not talking about this this much in this one. We 207 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: didn't talk about it too much in the other one. 208 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: But I do think there's been kind of a push 209 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: back of um, basically what I'm saying, and we put 210 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: too much pressure on virginity one way or the other. 211 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: Because in my school, that would have been a very 212 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: uncool thing to do, like you would have been made 213 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: from of and that's like, that's not cool either. But 214 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: you know, I do think we've also got that aspect 215 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 1: of yeah, once you reach a certain age in your 216 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: virgin wipe your hands in that person, which is also ridiculous, 217 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: but okay. True Love Weights is a campaign created which 218 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: was an assin only youth program that used different tactics 219 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: for young teams to commit to abstaining from sex and 220 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 1: waiting for love. They use conferences, concerts, school campaigns that 221 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: registered kids to sign cards with with a vow of chastity. 222 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: Purity Balls began in the nineties as well, a bit different. 223 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: Instead of just a vow written on a card promising 224 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: to yourself and God, it was a father daughter dance 225 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: that allowed an opportunity for the daughter and father to 226 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: exchange vows of chastity and protection to each other, the 227 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: daughter vowing to her father to remain pure until her marriage, 228 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: and a father vowing to somehow protecting their daughter's purity 229 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: as well. Many of the events involved in exchange of 230 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: purity rings. A lot of these events were actually federally 231 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 1: funded and not surprisingly a pretty big hit in the 232 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: Christian schools, including Christian homeschool movements and a lot of 233 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: modern relevant churches and affiliated Christian in programs. Right. I 234 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: found these fascinating. I was not a part of this. Again, 235 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: my family, they would talk about it and would hope 236 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: for the best, but let you be kind of understand. 237 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: I think they understood, like, you can't make a kid 238 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: do something that's not possible. If you forbid something, why 239 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: why would you do that? And there was that was 240 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: a decent amount of conversation and trust when it came 241 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: to that type of conversation. I will say because of 242 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: this in my circle, which it was not necessarily uncool 243 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: to be a virgin, that was not a thing. It 244 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: was weirder to see people have sex. And I wasn't 245 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: shocked for it because I wasn't like but but but 246 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: but but but but but when it came down to 247 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: what happened instead, kind of in that same idea of 248 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: waiting till marriage, marriage ended up being at nineteen years 249 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: old and now chucking people and divorced, and that included 250 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: my family members. They're trying to save themselves in marriage, 251 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: they're trying to wait, do the right thing. And then 252 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: oh no, I rushed into this because of lust rather 253 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: than love, which is easy to confuse when we're confused 254 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: about what love and lust does in general, especially when 255 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: you're young. Yeah, but yeah, these purity balls were such 256 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: a weird concept to me. It sounded nice because of 257 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: course you want to be with your dad and hanging 258 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: out and cotinent reminiscent of the father daughter dance at 259 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: a wedding, which also has a lot to do with 260 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: the patriarchal traditions as well, and handing over the daughter, 261 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: all of these things, and the fact that this began 262 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: so early. So some of the people who are some 263 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: of the kids who attended, some of the girls were 264 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: six years old, so it started six years old. Yeah. 265 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people say sixteen, but it 266 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: actually started at six. And so this kind of level 267 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: was this automatic like installment of your mind and if 268 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: you do this, you're going to disappoint me, which is 269 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: kind of the majority of sitcoms and or TV shows 270 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: that I've seen, is the narrative of disappointing the father 271 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: because they had sex owned and we're ruining their relationship 272 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: because they somehow broke a trust, which is sad. I mean, yeah, 273 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: so much of what we're talking about, all of it 274 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: it's very heateronormative. I know we said it in the 275 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: last one, but yeah, also here very head roonormative, vaginanta 276 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: penis X we're talking about. But almost everything we're talking about, 277 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: I'm struck and I shouldn't be by how it's all 278 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: about men, right, Like, even if we're talking about women 279 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: and why you know women doing these things, it's still 280 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: like the men first doing it. So you never signed 281 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: those cards, no, And I don't remember that being a thing. 282 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: Like I said, in my school, it was kind of 283 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: a tight rope and it was hard to win. But 284 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: that would have been very uncool. They were there were 285 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: certain there was a group of like really Christian kids 286 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: and yeah, my best friend who is her parents were 287 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: really Catholic. I got a lot of like hearing from 288 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: her about yeah, I know, living together before marriage and 289 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: sex before marriage. She always said try it before you 290 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: buy it. But yeah, in my group, we didn't really 291 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: do that. I I know. I've told the story before 292 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: that a niece of mine I got contacted she was eight, 293 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: but by her mother, and her mother wanted me to 294 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: be at this chastity ceremony and I refused to go, 295 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: and I told her why. I was like, look, I 296 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: want to be supportive of things that these are my 297 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: problems with it. I never heard from her again. How 298 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: old was the girl and they had the ceremony. I 299 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: think she was eight she was so were they having 300 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: her in like a white dress and all of that? Yes, yeah, 301 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: so it was a mock wedding with her father, Yeah yeah, yeah, 302 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. There's so many things to uncover with that. Again, 303 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of this whole, this whole conversation, as 304 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: we were saying before, it's like, yeah, it's very head 305 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: of normative, but it is also the understanding of how 306 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: this gendered roles and gendered biases are place and staunchly 307 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: looked down on if you try to disrupt it as well, 308 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: which is why they're not considered because automatically you're dismissed, 309 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: as we talked about in the last episode when marginalized 310 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: women were automatically dismissed of being pure point blank because 311 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: you're not white. It's that same concept here that if 312 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: you're not heterosexual and you're not this gender, that means 313 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: you're art automatically dismissed an impure So therefore you're not 314 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: part of this narrative. Again, very damaging in so many 315 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: ways because they neglects so much and obviously it's hurtful, dismissive, 316 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: and um just fairly the fact to other that because 317 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: you're not in this majority, which is not a majority 318 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: if you really think on it, but in their mind 319 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: it is because it's supposed to be the norm quote unquote. 320 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: And I'm saying this very very like sarcastically, but this 321 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: is the assumption. But yeah, this is that very big 322 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: conversation of like, we are instilling gender biases that are 323 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: damaging in this type of practice. But it's also yeah, 324 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: it is absolutely a key point for a lot of 325 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: the religious right. This is what they want, This is 326 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: what they're doing is to bring this and and we 327 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: don't talk about this in this episode. But actually and 328 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: everything I read through of course it hasn't involved I 329 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: was just tired. I think why we were just tired 330 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: by the end of this, we're like, oh, there's so 331 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: much that we're just like, okay, we can't get into 332 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: this too. But yes, this is very political. This is 333 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: a very big political stance. A lot of these movements 334 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: are political about taking autonomy away from women in general. 335 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: And it begins at a young age when it comes 336 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: to sexual identity, because you must find shame and shame 337 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: factors into what you're allowed to do, which you're not 338 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: allowed to do what you're seeing as And again, if 339 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: it's not based for procreation, then therefore it's already sent 340 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: to again with right. So it's it's this whole level. 341 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: And I remember growing up reading books like Passion and Purity, 342 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: which I'm sure you I was. I read a lot 343 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: of Christian literature in high school. And I want to 344 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: shout out to our friend who wrote to us, who 345 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: lives in rural Georgia. I'm saying, I hear you say 346 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: with them, I'm right with you with the religion. Hi, Yeah, 347 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: this is exactly like I was inundated and I put 348 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: myself there. But it wasn't my parents because they didn't 349 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: read this stuff. It was me that I got caught 350 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: up in that because I needed to feel whole. And 351 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to kind of come back to my own 352 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: little editorial bit I guess in that because I got 353 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: caught up in this, I really wanted to find value 354 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: in myself again, and this felt like a way I could. 355 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: So I took that whole thing of I don't know 356 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: if I told you about this book, I Kiss Dating Goodbye, 357 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: Which turns out the dude who wrote this book made 358 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: a lot of money, finally found his wife, wrote about 359 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: that and about how he saved himself for marriage and 360 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: purity and courtship again we talked about in the first 361 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: episode if you want to know what we're talking about, 362 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: but courtship, all of these things, and then coming into 363 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: like I think present day, he was like, I was wrong, 364 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: never mind, don't do that, and essentially disavowed that. And 365 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: there's been several, actually several more um current contemporary Christian 366 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: people who are on that same line, not necessarily saying 367 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: you should have sex, but like, this is not the 368 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: right idea, this is not the right way, this is 369 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: too patriarchal. This is this is damaging to girls, and 370 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: as in fact, the woman that I read Passion and Purity, 371 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: she wrote the story about finding her husband, finding her love. 372 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: Turns out he dies. I think she married three more 373 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 1: times since they all die on her, which is sad, 374 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: but somehow finding love all the time you're like, well, congratulations, 375 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: I guess, and this whole idea of concept of like 376 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,479 Speaker 1: having purity and growing together and their missionaries together and 377 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: saving the world together. And then he goes off and 378 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,719 Speaker 1: gets killed. Uh, And so she finds a new husband, 379 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: but really idealized as her first husband. It was really odd. 380 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: Went to a conference that I didn't attend it, but 381 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: people who were so excited to see are so excited 382 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: to hear her words because she's such a you know, 383 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: godly woman, as they would say. And then she comes 384 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: about talking about how hey, girls, if you're fat, you're 385 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: displacing your husband. If you're not cooking for your husband, 386 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: then you're not doing it, like all these things, giving 387 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: a list of what you're doing wrong. And like I 388 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: remember one friend of mine at that time came home 389 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: heartbroken because she had already struggled with the fact that 390 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: she felt like she was overweight, which wasn't true. She 391 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: felt like because she was I think she was mid thirties, 392 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: late late twenties, that because she hadn't had found her husband, 393 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: she was failing and all she wanted to do was 394 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: have a child and be a wife, because that's what 395 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: she was told her value was. And because this woman 396 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: was blaming her for her physical state, not doing being 397 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: submissive enough, not praying enough, she truly felt that and 398 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: it was so heartbroken. I think she also understood this 399 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: was wrong, but still put that into herself, like that, yeah, 400 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: you're right, it's my faults. And I felt that in 401 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: religion being the leadership of me, I'm not faithful enough, 402 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,880 Speaker 1: that I'm not submissive enough, I'm not all And it's 403 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: such a that that guilt when I finally was like 404 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: this is bullsh was such a release. I just can't 405 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: talk about enough. But this plays all into this, this 406 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: purity aspect, which I get the whole idea of virginity 407 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: was always about controlling women and subjugating women to men. 408 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: As it says of the meaning at the very base 409 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: of the word, that's what the problem is. It's not 410 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: the problem that you don't have sex. If you don't 411 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: want to have sex, that's perfect, that's normal, that's okay, 412 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: that should be your choice. And just as you said, 413 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,719 Speaker 1: people pushing you in like this whole narrative of trying 414 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: to peer pressure someone into having sex. That's so absurd 415 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: to and that is just as dangerous as as all 416 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about, for sure, But it is this whole 417 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: narrative is controlling it and what's why is it being 418 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 1: pushed That's the biggest thing. And honestly, as I was 419 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: talking about with my own self, feeling like even though 420 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 1: it was not my fault, it was nothing to do 421 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 1: with me, this dirtiness of this, and yeah it is. 422 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: It's it's part of that instilling that's dirtiness for girls 423 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: if they have sex. And as I was talking about earlier, um, 424 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: and it really always rubbed me the wrong way. But 425 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: it makes sense because I love a good analogy about 426 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: the lollipop. You know. So if you read Jessica Valenti's 427 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: book The Purity Myth, she actually talks about going to 428 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: a conference. Actually, uh, this dude says your body is 429 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: a wrapped lollipop when you have sex with a man. 430 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 1: He draps your lollipop and sucks on it. It may 431 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: feel great at the time, but unfortunately, when he's done 432 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: with you, all you have left for your next partner 433 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: is a poorly wrapped, saliva filled sucker. Yeah, so that's 434 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: the analogy that was being passed around, and I heard that, like, 435 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: you know, you take a lick and again I think 436 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: I said it in the first episode about the analogy 437 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: of this youth. Pastor brought out a candy bar, passed 438 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: it around and by the time he got to a 439 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: certain person of that like I don't want this, and like, see, 440 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: that's that's exactly what we're talking about when he talks 441 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 1: about sex. When you go around with so many partners, 442 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: who's gonna want you? It is absolutely do It didn't 443 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: have much to do with the guy, of course. Typically yes, 444 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: it was also supposed to be for men as well, 445 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: and that's why the Dude who Did I Kissed Dating 446 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: Goodbye was so popular because it was written by a 447 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: man about his virginity and finally we could see this, 448 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: but it had the same idea of you're being shared, 449 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: you're being dirty. There was also this whole conversation about 450 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: chewing gum, essentially unwrapping her and chewing her up. That's 451 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: who has left over is left over chewing gum um. 452 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: And if you've been doing any church or youth group, 453 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: I think this all sounds probably very familiar, because you know, 454 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: analogies and metaphors make up about of all the sermons 455 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: and lessons pret when it comes to stuff like this, 456 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: especially if they're like more of a relevant contemporary church, 457 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: you definitely hear that. I mean, that's kind of what 458 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: the Bible was, parables upon parables on parables. But the 459 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: Purity movement was no different. And again, yeah, there's so 460 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: many analogies alluding to the idea that people who have 461 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: sex are dirty and used up. And as in fact, 462 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: it's so steeped into our idea, it's not just there, 463 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,360 Speaker 1: it's always been around uh sex. And the city did 464 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: the whole thing once again. They did. They talked about 465 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 1: the fact that against Charlotte, if she was too sexual, 466 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: she was the whore and he saw her as a madonna, 467 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: so he couldn't have sex with her because she was 468 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: too pure type of thing. But then at the same 469 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: time talking about how many partners they've had and feeling 470 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: dirty and oh my god, and like it's and it's 471 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 1: definitely the slut versus you know, am I. The episode 472 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: of the thing is called am I Slut? But it's 473 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: such an idea that it is inundated in women that 474 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: that's what it is. We're being used up, which is 475 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: such a weird conversation to have anyway, And it is 476 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: a part of this whole level of purity again obviously dirty. 477 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: If you're not pure, you're dirty. What else are you? 478 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: But it is so heavily laid that it becomes really 479 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: dangerous and problematic. Yeah, and I mean we've all heard 480 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: that the jokes about you know, the village bicycle and 481 00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: that kind of puts I guess that's another avenue where 482 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: we see this value that we place on virginity and 483 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: purity because essentially what you're saying, there's like two men. 484 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: She's easy to get. Anyone can get her, like she 485 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: should be ashamed, she's dirty, and you want as a 486 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: man to get someone that other men could not get, 487 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: and that somehow is great for your ego. And yeah, 488 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: you don't have to worry that maybe she's gotten another 489 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: child with another man somewhere once again. Yeah, so it's 490 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: not surprised to see that these types of ideas and 491 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: methods and myths can be damaging. Um, and we wanted 492 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: to look a bit into what could be some of 493 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: the results of all this. And since Samantha, you brought 494 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: up sex in the city, I shall bring up something 495 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: I bring up all the time, horror movies. There is 496 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: a horror movie called The Last Exorcism, which has its issues, 497 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: but at the heart of it, it's a really religious 498 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: girl who, well it's complicated because there's a twist, but 499 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: she is traumatized because she had sex before marriage and 500 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: like goes into demon possession as an alternative to I 501 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: would rather people think that then think that I've had 502 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: set well before. Yeah. And she at the end, when 503 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: like the Exorcism is you know it's coming to a head, 504 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,159 Speaker 1: she just screams out, I'm not in a set because 505 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: she had sex. But then also, demons happened, soon happened. 506 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: That's fair, yes, yes, But in the real world when 507 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: we are talking about problems of all this while we've 508 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: been talking about them, but here's some more. Um, there's 509 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: fetishism of virginity. It's not hard to see that it 510 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: has become a whole thing. Yeah, we've seen it in 511 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,959 Speaker 1: badly made movies that reference the idea of taking someone's virgina, 512 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: the or porn videos which promote viewing of a young 513 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: girl losing her virginity or even seeing it as a 514 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: fear tactic of sex trafficking and young girls. There becomes 515 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: a dangerous line of how girls are viewed as literal commodities, 516 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: are trophies to be conquered, that is tied to the 517 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:24,719 Speaker 1: overall mythical importance of trying to keep one's morality taken 518 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: is a prime example of that movie That whole I 519 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: never saw that documentary film my dad told me about. 520 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's it's absolutely the whole thing again because 521 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: we talked about with bridget about the fact that, you know, 522 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: trafficking girls. But at the end, his daughter is a 523 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: prize because she's a virgin, a white virgin, and she's 524 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: bid on and given all of the fancy treatment, and 525 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: of course she saved. Her virginity is saved by her father. Y'all, 526 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: her virginity by her father. There that is huh. And 527 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: we can go on to one step further about this 528 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: fetishism which ties to the pickup artist believes in tactics 529 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: that women are taught to fight men, so that means 530 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: a man has to push harder and try harder. Because 531 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: it's all a ruse. This is something that is just taught. 532 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: This is something that's ingraded into them. But they don't 533 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: really want it, and they want me to pursue women 534 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: to the point of harassment and to the point that 535 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: they can't say no obviously, and this is kind of 536 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: that one last thing. This is kind of more what 537 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: you're talking about about the fact that women can choose 538 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: not to have sex. It's just either a way consent 539 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: is taken away, saying that you know, you don't want 540 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: to say no, you don't want to say yeah, but 541 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: you don't want to say no either. It's it's this 542 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: whole level and that is a game that we're being 543 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: taught because again, we have no autonomy. There's another problem 544 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: with this whole thing. Again, Yes, there's been so many 545 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: problems that I've been saying. I've been going off on 546 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: early sexualization of young girls, and it's that same narrative 547 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: we've seen repeatedly throughout society, whether we're talking about how 548 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: girls dress so a school dress code or what they're 549 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: being told to protect or how to act. It begins 550 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: to sexualize them. They don't even think they're coming on 551 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: with a cute dress. They want to match their mom 552 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: in a cute way. They want to wear hells, And 553 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: it's automatically like, how dare you dress a young girl 554 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: like that? That is sexualizing them. They're not doing it, 555 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: you're doing it. Why are you doing this? But this 556 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: is kind of that whole propagation of yeah, this is 557 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: what you're doing and it's your fault and I see 558 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: her like this because of you, and it's part of 559 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: this conversation. Again, it teaches girls things like purity balls, 560 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: which for some recur again in their adolescence, that their 561 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: bodies are a weapon of sin, so it is something 562 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: that can be used against them or they have to 563 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: protect as if it's like a weapon. And and instead 564 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: of being allowing a girl to be a girl, they're 565 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: just based on whether not they're tempting men. And we 566 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: talked about that in our book club for Um the 567 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: Househomengo Street is kind of that conversation on whether they're 568 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: tempting men just because they're there, just because they wore heels, 569 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: that that whole that kind reminds me of that. They 570 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: just thought it was pretty. They just liked it. They 571 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: they saw their parents and they thought it was cute. 572 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: And it became a weapon in a temptation for a man. 573 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: And it scared them because they realized what they were 574 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: being seen as, even though they didn't do this for them. 575 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: And in this very way, the Purity Balls are teaching 576 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: them to fear their own bodies. And not just Purity Balls, 577 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: but this purity movement and ideas are teaching kids at 578 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: a young age about their bodies and how they're tempting 579 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: and how they need to be afraid of themselves. And 580 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: we talked about it when we talked about the Lolita 581 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: podcast with Jamie and the whole Lolita effect which is 582 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: out there and out and about which allows for many 583 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: to blame a young girl for their own impure thoughts 584 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: or for some older women's self hatred. Like this level 585 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: of where we become so aware of ourselves and fearful 586 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: of what our bodies are doing. It's just it's so heartbreaking. 587 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: I hate it. I hate it so much. And this 588 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: also makes naive young girls gatekeepers of sex, as in fact, 589 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: Jessica Valenti, she talks about her experience when she first 590 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: has sex and what she thought of versus And then 591 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: she contacted her partner at the time, her boyfriend from 592 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: the time, and asked him what he thought for her book, 593 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: and he kind of was He literally just said, you know, 594 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: but you had more control than I did because you're 595 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: a girl. You know, a girl. Boys can't control this. 596 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: And because of these like misconceived ideas of who is 597 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: more sexual, girls are seeing being able to be in 598 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: more control. So therefore they have all of the control 599 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: of whether they say so of yes, having sex or 600 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: not having sex, or whether or not who's to blame 601 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: and who's the shame m h when this happens. So 602 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of that whole levels like wow, y all 603 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: are putting a lot on young girls. How do they 604 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: even how did we function? No? For sure, Like it's 605 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: it's setting you up as a young girl to be 606 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: ready to blame yourself. Um, if any like sexual assault 607 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: happens to you, interfere your body, your body is to blame. 608 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: You did something wrong, you have to question that was 609 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: like sending any wrong signals anything like that. Um, it's 610 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: just from so young teaching them and then something we've 611 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 1: kind of discussed throughout is the misconception of consent for women. 612 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,839 Speaker 1: When looking at the purity culture. The concept is that 613 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,720 Speaker 1: sex is a commodity and has some type of moral value, 614 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: but is something to be owned and taken, which can 615 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: send a lot of mixed messages of what consent looks like. Biblically, 616 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: we have examples of women who were raped and not 617 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: being seen as a victim, but seen as soiled and ruined, 618 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: and if they are not married to their perpetrator, their 619 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: worth and value has been diminished and oftentimes cast aside 620 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: and no longer part of society and blamed for letting 621 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: their most valuable asset be taken. I feel like we 622 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: see that in movies all the time, where it's like 623 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: the army is invading, like I'm gonna rape your wife 624 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: over and over, and it's meant be like now she's 625 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,479 Speaker 1: ruined for you, right, No, less about the trauma she's 626 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: going to go through, but for you, yeah, yeah, yeah, 627 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: yeah exactly. Though this has changed somewhat in society, we 628 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,439 Speaker 1: can see the value of women in that same manner 629 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: when it comes to roles inside of marriages today. It 630 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: wasn't until not too long ago when the law recognized 631 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: here in the US that rape can occur in marriage. 632 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: For those who are victims of abuse, who have been 633 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: taught that purity is the most valued part of them, 634 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: feeling of this overwhelming guilt and shame can really over 635 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: overshadow they're worse. Yeah, And it doesn't even if not 636 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: a question of oh my god, that's happened to me 637 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 1: and it's traumatic, and I have I haven't violated, it's 638 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: becomes a question of, oh my god, what did I do? 639 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: I allowed this, which we kind of talked about before, 640 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,320 Speaker 1: and consent goes out that window. No one understands consent, 641 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: which is also that whole level of well, if I 642 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: tempted him, then I owe it to him, because this 643 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: is my fault. Was again going back to we are 644 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: the gatekeepers of our sexuality in general, and therefore we 645 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: are also the gatekeepers of whether or not a man 646 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: is tempted, and that means we owe it, and that 647 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: that takes away consent, that that absolutely takes that away. 648 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 1: And this misconception of I have to give it to you, 649 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: and if I didn't explicitly fight you, ye, then I 650 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: was willing. It's such a it's such a narrative that again, 651 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: it just perpetuates the rape culture that we were talking 652 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: about in that last episode as well. Yeah, yeah, for sure. 653 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: And it also teaches women and girls that any pain 654 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: or abuse that happens to them maybe a punishment for 655 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: their pre marital sexual interactions. Right. And I remember specifically 656 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: one of my friends who went through a few misharriages 657 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: are still born. It was so traumatic and I was 658 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,800 Speaker 1: so painful for her because she just was so excited 659 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: and when these things happened to her, she came back 660 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: and told me, it's because I had sex with so 661 00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: SO before marriage and I knew it, and I knew it, 662 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: I would think I was pregnant then, and I'm miscarried then, 663 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: Like there was no these are all these were all 664 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 1: assumptions for her. But she was so sure that it 665 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: was her wrongdoing that she suffered in her guilt to 666 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: the point that she pushed everyone away because she she 667 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: felt like she was so dirty and unclean because she 668 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: had sex before marriage and this was God's punishment to her, 669 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: and which I kind of was just like, what is happening? 670 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: This is no, that's not that's not how this works. 671 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: Because also that that conversation for those there's so many 672 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: who have in their mind done it the right way 673 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: that go through the same things. It's such a sad 674 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: punishment for needless, needless made up social construct that it 675 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 1: truly broke my heart. And I was just like, I 676 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: afflored me to be honest, I was like, I don't 677 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 1: know what to say to this other than no, it's not. 678 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,359 Speaker 1: But you can't fight someone's religious, you know what I mean, 679 00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: believe in themselves. You really can't. Even though I'm like, 680 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: what it was the whole thing. Another problematic thing with 681 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: the purity culture is the romanticism and the exaggeration of 682 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: having sex. The expectation of sex grows wildly out of 683 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: proportion when we really dream up this the night of 684 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 1: the wedding thing. And I know, I think it's finally 685 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: come to the point that everybody's like, hey, don't get 686 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: too excited, right, But it's this whole like kind of 687 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: a similar idea of getting your periods or you've become 688 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,320 Speaker 1: a woman, you're a whole, you changed woman, you look different, 689 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: you walk differently. That's not true. Sure, I'm in pain, 690 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: I'm not even more pain, and I'm very confused what's 691 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: happening with my body. But that's not it's not a 692 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: romanticized thing, and it's just such a misconception of what 693 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 1: sex is and if and yes, having a connection and 694 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: an emotional intimacy is a beautiful thing. And if you're 695 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: you're using the narrative of saving yourself with the one 696 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: you know, do what you need to, if that's something 697 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: that you believe and that's what your treasure and it 698 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: works out, it's gorgeous. I'm so glad. I'm so glad. 699 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: But it also brings on the idea that sex will 700 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 1: be always be beautiful and magical and it's going to 701 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: be perfect when it was leading, and it can be 702 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,920 Speaker 1: severely disappointing when everything goes awry. And I've I've heard 703 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: many tales of people's honeymoons being ruined because they didn't 704 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: know what was going to happen, to the point that 705 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,280 Speaker 1: I even heard one person that it was so painful 706 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 1: that she cried and they had to stop. Yeah, and that, 707 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 1: I mean that is a similar conversation to what we 708 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: were talking about with the orgasms, where we've made it 709 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: into this huge, huge thing and it really shouldn't be 710 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,440 Speaker 1: like if you wanted to be special and all that. 711 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 1: That's like, that's great, but yeah, I remember once I 712 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: think it was you know, college, and me and my 713 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: like really close group of um women, female friends. We 714 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: we talked about like so sex overrated, like yeah, yeah, 715 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. And that's kind of where that lie comes in, 716 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: that women can't orgasm or or shouldn't enjoy sex. It's 717 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: not supposed to be for us, for us, you know 718 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 1: that men's perspective. And again, that type of line and 719 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: that kind of misconception is really dangerous too and really sad. 720 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 1: It's so sad when it can be a beautiful thing, 721 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: which also yes, leads to a complete misunderstanding of sex 722 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: in general. The terms technical virgin and partial version are 723 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 1: often floated around because the lack of sexual education when 724 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: it's abstinence only that we kind of ignore everything, so 725 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: everything is out of bounds, but nothing is talked about. 726 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: So of course girls are very confused about oral sex 727 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,880 Speaker 1: and who can do what, and then it becoming dirty 728 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,240 Speaker 1: and what becomes dirty and what becomes okay, what becomes taboo? 729 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: What's sinful beyond just having pretty mantal sex, and no 730 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: one talks about the ins and nows of sexual contact 731 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: or interaction at all, and paints everything as immoral. Like 732 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,279 Speaker 1: I said, it's like it's just like all taboo and 733 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 1: all hush hush, And so therefore there's a lot of 734 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: things that you don't understand, which is not always bad, 735 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: but at the same time, to be lied to and 736 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: be taking advantage of happens a lot, a lot, which 737 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: allows for misleading information such as being able to get 738 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 1: pregnant and hot tubs that float around I believe different minute, 739 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,280 Speaker 1: or that you can stop pregnancies by drinking bleach, which 740 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,359 Speaker 1: was yeah, which actually done. Apparently there was a couple 741 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: of cases in Florida where teenagers got sick and you're like, 742 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 1: oh no, don't do that or that again. By defining 743 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: sex in such a headonormative manner ignores the queer community 744 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: completely again and others them and shames them in general 745 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: and brings even more confusion, and so more disinformation comes out, 746 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:50,320 Speaker 1: and it just becomes a whole festival of disinformation. Yeah, 747 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 1: And I remember, like you see that in instances a 748 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 1: couple of years ago, when there was that story that 749 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: made headlines that a lot of young girls were being 750 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: pressured into oral because they were being told, it's not sex, 751 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,720 Speaker 1: so we can have it and then you won't be dirty, 752 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 1: and you won't you know, lost your virginity and you know, 753 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 1: those those can be confusing lines across, but they were basically, yeah, 754 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 1: being pressured into something based on this purity thing and 755 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 1: based on the boys wanted to have some type of sex, right, 756 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 1: some type of sexual contact. It's everything but right, But yeah, 757 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: it is, And it is sad because you could the 758 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 1: conversation so that you can also get sdis this way, 759 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: and people are not talking about it, People are not 760 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:37,240 Speaker 1: understanding it. It's it's seriously dangerous on a health level 761 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: when you look like again, spread this of information as 762 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: well as fins. Things like you know, accidental pregnancies are 763 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 1: happening because they're not talking about how they can get 764 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,239 Speaker 1: pregnant or how it actually works and what they need 765 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,360 Speaker 1: to do. And again, if they're not talking about it 766 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 1: at all, you're not gonna be prepared. So having a 767 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,359 Speaker 1: condom is not going to be a thing. Knowing how 768 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,359 Speaker 1: to use a condom is not going to be a thing, right, 769 00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 1: which is all very sad, it is. It is indeed, Yeah, 770 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,040 Speaker 1: I believe I've even seen God I'm trying. I can't 771 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: remember it exactly, but I remember there was this idea 772 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: that women could like stop sperm like by clenching so 773 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 1: it wouldn't go in far enough right too. There's also 774 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:25,480 Speaker 1: lunar cycles that people base it on. M h yep. 775 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:27,800 Speaker 1: I have a friend who did that on her honeymoon. 776 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,760 Speaker 1: They only had sex at one time. Triplets. Yeah, so 777 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,440 Speaker 1: a friend of a friend kept bluing that and was 778 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: surprised when he had the sixth baby. She's so clearly, 779 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,520 Speaker 1: there are so many other things that we could cover. 780 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,439 Speaker 1: We We've been talking about them on and off air 781 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,879 Speaker 1: on your topics, and some we could absolutely go more 782 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: in depth on. Yeah. Yeah, there's nothing wrong at all 783 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 1: with waiting until you are comfortable to have sex, but 784 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,759 Speaker 1: we can't ignore the trauma and overall damage these types 785 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:09,400 Speaker 1: of myths can cause. Right. Um. For myself again, like 786 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,200 Speaker 1: I've been saying, I think I've struggled, and you can 787 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:13,839 Speaker 1: tell there's a lot of things that I'm a little 788 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,400 Speaker 1: upset about, little angry about because I was inundated in 789 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,239 Speaker 1: this culture as well. Again my choice. It was like 790 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: I pushed myself into this because this is what I needed. 791 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 1: I think at the time, but I'm now understanding, Wow, 792 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:27,879 Speaker 1: I'm having a hard time on learning some of these 793 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,279 Speaker 1: concepts even though I very well understand, like this is bad, 794 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,840 Speaker 1: and then coming back to realize this is a strategy 795 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: that was used politically to motivate young women to understand, Hey, 796 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,239 Speaker 1: you need be under the authority of men. And yeah, 797 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,239 Speaker 1: I struggled, and I still struggled with the idea that 798 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: sex can quite love at all. Again, my own trauma, 799 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 1: my own ordeal as a child, really had a lot 800 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,799 Speaker 1: to do with it. So absinence was actually easy for me. 801 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 1: I did not have sex until in my mid twenties, 802 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,240 Speaker 1: but for me in high school because I was afraid 803 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: of men and intimacy, partially because of my own ethnicity, 804 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,640 Speaker 1: once again being another I wasn't pure, And to begin 805 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,279 Speaker 1: with again, my childhood experience as an orphan and things 806 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,879 Speaker 1: that I I went through as an orphan um defined me 807 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,960 Speaker 1: and UH as something that was no longer usable or 808 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: as valuable, and the culture of purity made me think 809 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,360 Speaker 1: it was because I was already defined that it was 810 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 1: too late, And of course I clung to that faith 811 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,319 Speaker 1: throughout some of the darkest time for me, and it 812 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,160 Speaker 1: helped it pull me out in that forgiveness and being 813 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 1: able to come into but there's something else bigger than me, 814 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,800 Speaker 1: and it's acting. That's beautiful and for people who truly 815 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,319 Speaker 1: understands that, it allows that to be to make them 816 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,880 Speaker 1: a better person, wonderful but like, but that also meant 817 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 1: intimacy or just having a boyfriend meant that I was owned, 818 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 1: that there was an ownership of me, and for me, 819 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,080 Speaker 1: it was easier to understand that because that's what I 820 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,319 Speaker 1: was taught and that's what I was understanding, and it 821 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,120 Speaker 1: felt it made sense because that's already something that I've 822 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,319 Speaker 1: been cultivated to feel like I've already been that way. 823 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,880 Speaker 1: Literally was bought from Korea to the U s BO 824 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,160 Speaker 1: me and it went through a lot of things, and 825 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: even when I came here, I was shown my worth 826 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,920 Speaker 1: as a sexual being and being at ten and eleven 827 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 1: years old eighth so all of those things really did 828 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,040 Speaker 1: prepare me to be the perfect vessel under this p 829 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:20,080 Speaker 1: purity culture because I wanted to be clean because of course, 830 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,880 Speaker 1: that type of trauma teaches you that you're not clean, 831 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 1: and I think that's part of this misconception why it 832 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,799 Speaker 1: can be dangerous and I'm I've made it out, I 833 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,960 Speaker 1: have had therapy, I still had need their panting medication. 834 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:34,960 Speaker 1: I have to do all the things because it's not 835 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 1: going to be cleansed from me. Essentially, I guess the 836 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:38,919 Speaker 1: best way because it's always always gonna be a part 837 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:40,759 Speaker 1: of my history. But I think that's part of things, 838 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,319 Speaker 1: like we have to really recognize it for what it 839 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,839 Speaker 1: is and why these myths are dangerous and perpetuating it 840 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 1: in such a manner, especially when you're self serving for 841 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,800 Speaker 1: an agenda. Why we need to talk about it and 842 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,759 Speaker 1: dig a little deeper onto it again. That book that 843 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,240 Speaker 1: I was telling you about, The Purity met But Jessica Valenti, 844 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 1: she has some really great takes in there, and we 845 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 1: probably should visit it as a book club, even though 846 00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I don't know I can do this anymore. 847 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,120 Speaker 1: But yeah, I feel like, and you know, I've talked 848 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 1: about this before, like that that feeling it attaches, and 849 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,400 Speaker 1: when you start really going down that rabbit hole, it 850 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:24,600 Speaker 1: feels dark, even though it doesn't have to be. Yeah, well, 851 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,719 Speaker 1: and so much of what we're talking about here is 852 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,880 Speaker 1: political and patriarchal, and we're teaching it from such a 853 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,440 Speaker 1: young age. And I will say as we wrap this up, 854 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:39,760 Speaker 1: like it's really nobody's business, because I know for me, 855 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,080 Speaker 1: when like you be playing never vi ever and people 856 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,600 Speaker 1: be like, have you lost your virginity? And I lost 857 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,439 Speaker 1: it in a very traumatic sexual assault, and I would 858 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,439 Speaker 1: I would literally freeze and not know what to do right, 859 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,600 Speaker 1: And that turned into I know I've said before, there 860 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,719 Speaker 1: were these rumors I was like a slut. It was 861 00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,920 Speaker 1: because people thought like I got into some badious and stuff, 862 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,040 Speaker 1: which is not even like that's incorrect assumption as well, 863 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,759 Speaker 1: but like that I anyway, like so that question can 864 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,040 Speaker 1: be very traumatic, and my my therapist said some people 865 00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:22,279 Speaker 1: reframe it as like a separate issue entirely, but like 866 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,560 Speaker 1: even the idea that this virginity has that much meaning 867 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:31,080 Speaker 1: that you're doing that. So it is unfortunate and and 868 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 1: like one of the periods of abuse in my life, 869 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:39,759 Speaker 1: I went to I didn't know what like dating was. 870 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,840 Speaker 1: I didn't like this guy's telling me he's my boyfriend. 871 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know, I guess maybe this is 872 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,239 Speaker 1: how it is, and this is maybe how sexist because 873 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 1: I didn't have any education and I was young. So 874 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:57,360 Speaker 1: it's really sad because there's all of these like things 875 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:02,600 Speaker 1: that are coming together to create a very unhealthy, dangerous 876 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,400 Speaker 1: system and society for for a lot of us. But 877 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,960 Speaker 1: here we're talking about like young girls and setting them 878 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,919 Speaker 1: up to take the blame for it. Right, So yeah, 879 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:19,200 Speaker 1: there is a lot back. Yeah. We came in saying, 880 00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:20,920 Speaker 1: oh yeah, it's gonna be a big one. And then 881 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,200 Speaker 1: I came and saying, okay, this might be a two parter, 882 00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:28,880 Speaker 1: and it was. It was. And if there's anything listeners 883 00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:32,960 Speaker 1: that you want us to unpack in more detail, there 884 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:37,600 Speaker 1: was certainly plenty. Please let us know our emails, stuff 885 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,080 Speaker 1: DiDia mom stuff at iHeart mea dot com. You can 886 00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,040 Speaker 1: find us on Instagram and Stuff I've Never Told You 887 00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,440 Speaker 1: are on Twitter at monst Off Podcast. Thanks as always 888 00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,600 Speaker 1: start a super producer, Christina, thank you, and thanks to 889 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,640 Speaker 1: you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You. The production 890 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,799 Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio for more podcast from my Heart Radio 891 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,359 Speaker 1: is the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen 892 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:55,320 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.