1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: Hey fam, Hello Sunshine. Today on the bright side, upgrade 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: your physical and emotional well being, psychiatrist and author doctor 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: Sue Varma is here to show us the power of 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: flexing our optimism muscle. 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 2: It's Wednesday, April tenth. I'm simone voice. 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright side from 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine. 8 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 3: Hi Danielle, see money. 9 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: We didn't really get to catch up after your trip. 10 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: How are you feeling after watching the eclipse in real time? 11 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 2: I feel like it sent me into an existential spiral, 12 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 2: if I'm being. 13 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: Honest, only you, only me, of course, why is that? 14 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,319 Speaker 2: Because I went to go watch the eclipse with all 15 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: my dad's family, like thirty relatives that I haven't seen 16 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: in probably like ten years, and I saw my aunts 17 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: and uncles and how they've been impacted by those years 18 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: that I haven't seen them, and how fast they're aging, 19 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 2: and it just hit me so hard. Like you know, 20 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 2: how you're growing up and you're you're at the kids 21 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: table and you look up to your uncles and aunts 22 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: and they're like these almost immortal figures in your life, yes, 23 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 2: and so then to see them aging and frail and 24 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,559 Speaker 2: like in pain or just you know, natural signs of aging, 25 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 2: like silver hair. It just like it really hit me 26 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 2: in a big way this trip. 27 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: It's so hard to see. Did it make you want 28 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: to move to Buffalo and take your kids there and 29 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: do a whole different kind of life. 30 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 2: It didn't make me want to move there, because I 31 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: just I don't think that's me. But it did make 32 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: me think about the sacrifices that we make for our dreams, 33 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 2: and leaving extended family behind is one of them. Both 34 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 2: my dad and my mom left their families behind at 35 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 2: an early age to go pursue their careers, and I 36 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 2: did the exact same thing, and that is a very 37 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: real sacrifice. 38 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: I think about it all the time. Do you really, Oh, 39 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: my god, I have a I don't want to call 40 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: it an irrational fear because I think it's rational, but 41 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: a huge fear that I will not have children in 42 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: time for my parents to really know them, because I 43 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: had such a special relationship with my grandparents, and so 44 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: each year I get older, I get so anxious and 45 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: nervous about that because family is so deep in my bones. 46 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, do you feel like we've lost sight of family, 47 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 2: of the importance of family. 48 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 3: Being in a city like Los Angeles. 49 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: I think about that a lot. I'm not sure. I 50 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: do think there's seasons in life, like I think that 51 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: we're in our mountain climbing years in a lot of ways. 52 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: But my dad always calendared things out, and I think 53 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: he did that because if you don't have something on 54 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: the calendar, it just doesn't happen. Yes, and so my 55 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: goal is to plan a few more trips and make 56 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: sure that they happen. 57 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: That's the big takeaway for me. And when I texted 58 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: my friend about this, I was like feeling kind of 59 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: sad about it. She was like, listen, it is a 60 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 2: privilege and an honor to get to watch your family 61 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: members age. The big takeaway for me is I just 62 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 2: need to be more intentional about seeing them. 63 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, we need family reunions. 64 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 2: Family bring back the family reunion that ruined the family reunion. 65 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 1: Yes, we need to bring them back. I don't it's 66 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: pot luck. It doesn't have to be fancy. Yes, we 67 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: just need a place because it's too hard to fly 68 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: all over the country. People live everywhere nowadays. Yes, we 69 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: need one place once a year where we all come 70 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: together for one weekend. 71 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 2: Yes, all right, Okay, So that's that's my existential crisis. 72 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 3: Let's lighten it up. 73 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: Okay, honestly a really real existential crisis. Though I'm glad 74 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: you brought it up. I'm glad we got to air 75 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: it out. Let's see what's popping on our feeds today. 76 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 2: This is your morning drip, Danielle Billie Eilish. Are you 77 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 2: a fan huge? 78 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: Oh my god? She is such an old soul, wise 79 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: beyond her years. 80 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 3: Every time I listen to her music, I'm just like, 81 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 3: how why? Who? 82 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: How? How is one person? I mean it's her and 83 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 2: her brother, but like, how can they be so creative 84 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: and brilliant? 85 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: She's been here before that's why. 86 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 3: Oh past lives. 87 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, lives sah yeah, she's like on her ninety 88 00:03:59,040 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: seventh life. 89 00:03:59,680 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 3: I think. 90 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 2: Okay, we haven't had the past live conversation. We need 91 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: to talk about reincarnation at some point. But okay, big 92 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 2: news in the world of Billie Eilish. Right, she is 93 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: hard launching her upcoming album. It's called Hit Me Hard 94 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 2: and Soft. I cannot wait for this. I know this 95 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 2: is something I'm gonna be playing on repeat. This is 96 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 2: actually her third full length album and it's gonna come 97 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: out next month. We don't have to wait too long. 98 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 2: May seventeenth, and she announced it on Instagram and she 99 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: said that there won't be any singles leading up to 100 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: the release. Interesting move, interesting, very strategic move. So the 101 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: album is gonna come out all at once. 102 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: What has hit me hard and soft? Mean, like, that's 103 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: the title, It's billy, it's a little sexual. 104 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 3: It's it's a dichotomy. 105 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's always like eight meanings behind which you do. 106 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: So I'm excited to hear what it actually means instead 107 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: of my mind going in one direction. But speaking of 108 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: sexual did you watch The Bear of course? Okay, So 109 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: Jeremy Allen White, who has become a real sex symbol 110 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: in today's culture. You might remember him in those tidy 111 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: whities and those Calvin Klein ads, but we might also 112 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: see him in some very tight genes complete with an 113 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: iconic red bandana. He's reportedly in talks to play Bruce 114 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: Springsteen in the upcoming biopic Deliver Me from Nowhere the Boss, 115 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: But the movie just landed at twentieth Century Studios and 116 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: is about the making of Springsteen's nineteen eighty two Nebraska album. 117 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 2: I Love This for Jeremy. I think he's gonna crush it. 118 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: He's such a talented actor. Did you see Shameless? I 119 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: watch because I'm from Chicago. 120 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 3: I did not. 121 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: He is so freaking good. He can be comedic, dramatic, 122 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: you believe him on screen, and he's so sexy, ugly. 123 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: I love him and anything. 124 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 2: It's so funny that he had this whole chapter from 125 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 2: before The Bear where he was in Shameless, that wasn't 126 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 2: really on my radar, and so I think a lot 127 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 2: of people look at The Bear and the success of 128 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 2: that show and they're like, oh, he was just an 129 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 2: overnight success. 130 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 3: He came out of nowhere. But he's been doing this 131 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 3: for a minute. 132 00:05:58,160 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: Yeah he has. He earned it. 133 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: Okay, people get ready to lose control this summer because 134 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 2: the one, the only, Missy Elliott is going on her 135 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: first ever headline tour. 136 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 3: That's crazy. 137 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: Oh cute the applause. I can't believe this is her 138 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: first ever. It is so overdue. I have no words. 139 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: She's been making music, she's been Missy for thirty years. 140 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 2: How is this her first headline tour? This is insane. 141 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: Here's the thing about Missy, not that there weren't other 142 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: women rappers that deserve respect, before her because there were 143 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: but she was one of the first women rappers that 144 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: the men respected. She changed the game for female rap 145 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: artists and she the music videos she would produce were 146 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: so crazy creative. She really made an impact on the 147 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: industry and I think generations of people are going to 148 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: come out for this tour. 149 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 2: But do you think that she had to present as 150 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 2: masculine in order to gain the respect to the. 151 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 3: Boys in the business. 152 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: I think that's just who she was. 153 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 2: I just wonder like, would they have treated her the 154 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: same if if she was a. 155 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: Little kim No. But it all the timing and everything 156 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: worked out for her and she made a wave. 157 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: She's iconic, style icon Okay, So this tour, she's gonna 158 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: be bringing out busta rhymes see Aura Timbaland. I mean, 159 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: I would love to see them in person. I have 160 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 2: to go to this. The tour starts in July. It's 161 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 2: gonna hit twenty four cities across North America. 162 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: We have to round out our morning Drip with another 163 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: boss lady. Did you see Rihanna's interview magazine cover that 164 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: just came out? Did I did you? 165 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 3: Yeah? 166 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: I did so? I eat up any Rihanna Interview because 167 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: she's pretty private, and in this one she actually got 168 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: really candid. You can tell she's like friendly with the interviewer. 169 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: And so it starts at three am, which is so Rihanna. 170 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: It goes for ninety minutes, and she talks about everything. 171 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: She talks about her relationship with Asap, how in love 172 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: they are, her kids, being in mom mode, her obsession 173 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: with Bravo. Obviously I was interested to hear her thoughts 174 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: on plastic surgery, and then, obviously, in true Rihanna fashion, 175 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: she sort of vaguely mentions new music and we don't 176 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: learn anything more. 177 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: She keeps doing this to us every few years. Yeah, wait, 178 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: what did she say about plastic surgery? I missed that part. 179 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna mention it. But now that you ask, 180 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: her exact quote is I want my titties pinned back 181 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: to my shoulders right where they used to be. I 182 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 1: don't want implants, I just want to live. 183 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 2: I'm just imagining her walking into a plastic surgeon's office 184 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: in Beverly Hills and being like, pin these titties back 185 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 2: to my shoulders please right now? 186 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean she would see. 187 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 3: I just love her. Gosh, she's so funny, but she 188 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 3: talks about. 189 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: How she's scared to go under the knife, and so 190 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: you know if she if she picked one thing, it 191 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: would be her boobs. 192 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 3: Listen. 193 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: But she was really candid. 194 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 2: That is so relatable, especially after you give birth. Them 195 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 2: thang saying what they used to be, be hanging low. 196 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: You have to give me the whole lowdown. 197 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 3: But I did. 198 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 2: I really related to one of the pictures that she 199 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: posted on her Instagram from this shoot. 200 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 3: It's like she has she's like. 201 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 2: Dresses kind of like a trad wife almost, and she 202 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 2: has really dark circles under her eyes, like zombies. It's 203 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 2: like a zombie trad wife. 204 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. 205 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 2: And she her caption was literally how I feel in postpartum. 206 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 2: I was like, girl, I've been there. I want I 207 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 2: want to text her and be like, hey, I'm with you. 208 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 2: I don't have her number. 209 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: How long does it take to feel like yourself again? Oh? 210 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: God? 211 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 3: See, I don't like to tell people the truth. 212 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: What's the truth, Give it to me real the other day, 213 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: don't give me the bright side. 214 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 3: So I have to tell a story. First. 215 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 2: I'm sitting with my friend the other day at her apartment. 216 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 2: She's pregnant and she's like terrified of giving birth, and 217 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 2: so I showed her my birth videos the other day, 218 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 2: like she got all of it, all of it, like 219 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 2: she got to see the baby coming out. 220 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: Who filmed your birth video? 221 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 3: My husband? I made him do it. 222 00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 223 00:09:58,400 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 3: I know, isn't that I mean? 224 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: I said direct, But it's a lot. 225 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 3: It's a lot. 226 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. 227 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: Even the doctor was like he doesn't need to be 228 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 2: doing this right now, like you're giving birth. So anyways, 229 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: I'm trying to help her feel better about giving birth. 230 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 2: And she asked me that question. How long does it take? 231 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: And the honest. 232 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 3: Truth is two years? Okay, but it's. 233 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: Incorrect after each baby or if you have two under two. 234 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 2: No, I think, well, if you have two under two, 235 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 2: good luck, But I think it takes about a year. 236 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 2: A year is a pretty big milestone for you, you know, 237 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 2: like the baby's more independent, you're starting to feel it yourself. 238 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 2: It happens in stages, but two is like when you 239 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 2: really are like, okay, I can take back my life again. 240 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: I froze my eggs and they say, just that is 241 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: about six months. Yeah, so you can't imagine it makes 242 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: sense giving birth would be about two years. 243 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. The math is mathing. 244 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 1: Stay with us because after the break, we're learning how 245 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: to get more than just an optimistic outlook. Doctor Sue 246 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: Varmah tells us how to get optimistic out. 247 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 2: Oh that sounds so good. I can't wait to hear 248 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 2: this interview. I'm bummed that I had to miss it. 249 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 3: Danielle. 250 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: We missed you so much. I actually felt like it 251 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: was an interview that you would have loved. But now 252 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: we get to listen to it. We're back. I'm Danielle 253 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: Robe and Its Wellness Wednesday. Today we're talking about a 254 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: very bright side subject, optimism. I mean, after all, we 255 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 1: named our podcast the bright Side, right, But in my mind, 256 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: optimism is not just a buzzword or a mood. It's 257 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: a mindset that shapes how we see the world and 258 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: drives our actions. There's a growing body of research that 259 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: shows changing your mindset by thinking more optimistically can actually 260 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 1: have a huge effect on your physical and emotional well being. 261 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: So maybe we're all missing a huge obvious tool in 262 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: our self care toolbox optimism. Here to talk about it 263 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: is doctor su Varma. She's a board certified psychiatrist, cogive 264 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 1: behavioral therapist, and the author of the book Practical Optimism, 265 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: Doctor Varma, thank you so much for joining us on 266 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: the bright Side. 267 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 4: Oh my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. 268 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 4: I'm so excited to be here. 269 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: Okay, I may be a little biased, but I do 270 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: feel like this is the perfect show for your research, 271 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: Doctor Varma. Can you start us off with what your 272 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: definition of optimism is. 273 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 4: Yes, So, optimism is an outlook that positive things will happen, right, 274 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 4: And so for me, I thought this was so interesting 275 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 4: because when you look at resilience, optimism is a key feature. 276 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 4: So in an uncertain situation where any number of outcomes 277 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 4: are possible, an optimistic person will always imagine the most 278 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 4: favorable outcome. But I wanted to go one step further. 279 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 4: I didn't want to just have a person have a 280 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 4: positive outlook in life. I want to help them have 281 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 4: positive outcomes in life. Ooh, not just an outlook and outcome. 282 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: Yea. 283 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 4: It's actionable, actionable, absolutely, And that's what practical optimism is. 284 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: Because I think you're touching on something that people conflate. 285 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: They think of optimism and then they think happiness or positivity, 286 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: And to me, there's a real difference, Like you're not 287 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: just saying everything's great, everything's fine, and kind of lying 288 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: to yourself. Almost optimism is acknowledging that there is an issue, 289 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: but that you will see that light at the end 290 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: of the tunnel. 291 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,199 Speaker 4: Yes, And to me, that's how I define it. It's 292 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 4: a practical choice. It's a decision that you make right. 293 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 4: So it's not just an outlook, because look, the reality 294 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 4: is that some of us are not born with a 295 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 4: positive outlook. That's not our natural inclination. Like let's say 296 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 4: you're at the airport and they're like, there's a plane delay. 297 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,959 Speaker 4: Does your mind automatically go to, oh my god, I'm 298 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 4: going to miss my plane, I'm going to miss the 299 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 4: meeting or the wedding or whatever it is that I'm 300 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 4: traveling to. Or does your brain say, it's fine, it'll 301 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 4: probably only be ten minutes, right. So we all have 302 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,199 Speaker 4: a genetic predisposition, a tendency towards one or the other. 303 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 4: But what if you do if you're the glass half 304 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 4: empty type, are you screwed in life? And I'm like, no, 305 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 4: I don't want to be screwed in light because a 306 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 4: lot of times I am glass half empty depending on 307 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 4: the situation. And that's the other thing is that you 308 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 4: can be optimistic in one aspect of your life, let's say, 309 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 4: in romance and relationships, but not in others, and maybe 310 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 4: not in finances, maybe not at your job. 311 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 5: So it can also depend a case by case. 312 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: I was actually so curious if you consider yourself an optimist, you. 313 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 5: Know, that's such a tricky thing. 314 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 4: I don't think I was, and I think that I 315 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 4: have a tendency sometimes to catastrophize, and that's something that 316 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 4: I learned in my own journey, and I learned over 317 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 4: time through this training. Like this, practical optimism is something 318 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 4: I've done on my patience, but I practice it every day, 319 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 4: Like I don't think, oh, okay now, just because I've 320 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 4: written a book on it, yes, you can call me 321 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 4: an expert, but I have to use it, and to me, 322 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 4: that's very freeing. 323 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, because your book shares that it's basically 324 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: it's not a mindset, it's a muscle. 325 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, exactly. Optimism is a key feature of resilience. 326 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 4: But I just looked at it as something you have 327 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 4: or you don't, and I didn't realize twenty years ago 328 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 4: that it's something that you can actually make an effort 329 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 4: to change. And it is genetic. But guess what, only 330 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 4: twenty five percent of it is. 331 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: Well. I was kind of laughing reading that part of 332 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: your book because I had a therapist one time ask me, 333 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: do you feel like the world has your back? 334 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 5: Interesting? 335 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: And she shared that some people do and some people don't. 336 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: And I very clearly thought about the people in my life, 337 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: like my mom feels like the world has her back. 338 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: I don't think my dad does. And your dad was 339 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: an optimist, right. 340 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 4: Yes, And he came from very humble beginnings. You know, 341 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 4: he's born in the late nineteen thirties in India. He 342 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 4: grew up in Rajasthan, which is in the desert. At 343 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 4: that time, there was no electricity. Most people didn't have it. 344 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 4: But when you ask him about his childhood, all he 345 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 4: remembers is, oh, my god, we had camel rides and 346 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 4: like hurricane lambs and ghost stories by the fireplace. I'm like, 347 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 4: that's because you had no electricity. He's like, no, no, no, 348 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 4: depends on how you want to look at it, you know, 349 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 4: on sleepovers and slumber parties on the rooftop. I'm like, 350 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 4: cause it was too hot because he didn't have fan, 351 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 4: because he didn't have electricity, and he would just he 352 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 4: spins the stories in such ways and he makes himself 353 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 4: laugh and just the eternal optimist. But also what I 354 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 4: realized is that he's got a WhatsApp chat group with 355 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 4: his friends from like the graduated med school the nineteen 356 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 4: fifties in India. He travels all over the world to 357 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 4: meet them. They have reunions. He drags me on trips 358 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 4: like he's constantly spearheading get together as reunions. 359 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 5: He's eighty six. 360 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: Amazing. Why do you think having an optimistic mindset is important? 361 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 4: Optimism is a game changer in life. If you were 362 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 4: like I want to make more money, I want to 363 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 4: be more fit, Optimism is the way to go. Optimism 364 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 4: is a well spring for health, for wealth, for longevity, 365 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 4: not just longevity, but exceptional longevity, which is living into 366 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 4: your eighties with good health. Because a lot of times 367 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 4: our lifespan is increasing in this country, but our health span, 368 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 4: which is the number of year spent in good health, 369 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 4: is not increasing to the same proportion. They did a 370 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 4: two hundred thousand person study and they showed that optimism 371 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 4: makes you thirty percent less likely to have a heart attack, 372 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 4: thirty percent less likely to have strokes, thirty percent less 373 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 4: likely to die from any reason prematurely. Wow, you are 374 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 4: forty percent more likely to get a raise as an 375 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 4: optimist in the next year. 376 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: What, Yep, you're forty percent more likely to get a raise, Yes. 377 00:16:59,280 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 5: In the next year. 378 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: How do you think that person? 379 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 4: You know, the variety of things. Optimists are more likely 380 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,239 Speaker 4: to a not take things personally when things don't work 381 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 4: out in their favor. So let's say that they were 382 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 4: trying to get one. They will keep trying, right and essly. 383 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 4: They're also really. 384 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 5: Good with people. 385 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 4: They have longer and stronger friendships, including in the workplace. 386 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 4: They're easier to get along with, they're open minded, they 387 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 4: have secure attachments, or they're willing to at least work 388 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 4: towards that. 389 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 5: Right. 390 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 4: They have five times less burnout, six times more work engagement. 391 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 4: So in every aspect of their life, like from in habits, 392 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 4: from mental health to mental health, they take care of themselves. 393 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 4: They go to annual visits, they wear their seat belt, 394 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 4: they're not smoking, they're exercising, so literally. 395 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 5: From head to toe less anxiety, less depression. 396 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: So before writing Practical Optimism, you spent decades as a psychiatrist. 397 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: What did you pick up from all of your patients 398 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 1: that led you to writing this book about optimism. 399 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 4: What I realized is that only a small fraction of 400 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 4: people are ever going to come and get help. 401 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 1: Right. 402 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 4: We know that mental illness or mental health disorders are 403 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 4: so common, one in five people have it, and anxiety 404 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 4: is so common, but most people forty or fifty percent 405 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 4: will never seek treatment for variety reasons, cost, stigma, They 406 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 4: don't know they have it, they just think it's part 407 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 4: of their personality. And I was thinking, how great would 408 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 4: it be if the tools that I'm giving my patients 409 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 4: who come in to make it accessible to everybody, so 410 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 4: that you don't have to wait for the other shoe 411 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 4: to drop, Because that's what happened to me. Right, And 412 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 4: I think that we don't focus enough on prevention. And 413 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 4: when I was working at the nine to eleven program, 414 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 4: I learned that, yes, resilience, this concept of bouncing back 415 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 4: from adversity is great, but I realized that me personally, 416 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 4: I was more interested in thriving in. 417 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 3: The face of it. 418 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: Well, I want to touch on your personal experience, but 419 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: you mentioned the nine to eleven program. Can you share 420 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: what you were doing? 421 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 5: Sure? 422 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 4: Yes, So after my psychiatry residency training, I was recruited 423 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 4: for this role, so it was my first job, and 424 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 4: I became the medical director of the nine to eleven 425 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 4: Mental Health program at NYU. So we saw people from 426 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 4: all walks of life, all backgrounds. You could have been 427 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 4: the fee Wall Street you know, billionaire, or you could 428 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 4: have been involved with rescue, recovery, clean up, first responders, 429 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 4: people from different parts of the world, and everybody was 430 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 4: the same because so many people were affected. They saw 431 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 4: and witnessed people jumping out of the towers, they got injured, 432 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 4: they had asthma, medical problems, PTSD, anxiety, depression, lost loved ones, 433 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 4: lost coworkers, lost homes, spaces. 434 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 5: So I really saw like the depths of. 435 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 4: Depravity in terms of terrorism and what it tries to 436 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 4: do chip away your morale. But I saw also the 437 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 4: heights of humanity of how much love that New Yorkers 438 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 4: had for one another. The whole country really came together 439 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 4: on this of how do we help one another? So 440 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 4: to me, that was the most beautiful takeaway is the 441 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 4: resilience of the human spirit and the capacity to really 442 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 4: take care of our fellow citizens. And that was so beautiful, 443 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 4: and so I hung on to that because I'm like, 444 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 4: you can dwell in the negativity or you can dwell 445 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 4: in possibility. 446 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 5: Which one is it going to be. 447 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: I love that you say possibility because there's a hope 448 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,439 Speaker 1: there WI, which indicates a look toward the future. And 449 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: to me, that's a part of optimism. Now I can 450 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: imagine people at the other end of this conversation thinking, 451 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: you know, it's really hard to be optimistic when the 452 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: world feels really heavy or challenging or sad. But the 453 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: thing about your work is that you spent your career 454 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: working with trauma survivors. Their lives are heavy and challenging 455 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: and sometimes sad. But you say that you learned something 456 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: firsthand from them. What is that through line? 457 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 3: Yeah? 458 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 4: So, you know, I feel like a lot of times 459 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 4: when we are sad and feeling depressed, our tendency is 460 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 4: to ruminate and to kind of become very self absorbed. 461 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 4: And I feel like, if you were to ask me why, 462 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 4: as a society we're so unhappy, I would say because 463 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 4: we are extremely self absorbed, and really, yes, and everything 464 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 4: about our culture is making us that way, And like 465 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 4: the pressure to succeed, the pressure to look good like God, 466 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 4: forbid you age. But whatever it is, it just pulls 467 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 4: you back inward and makes you alienated and disconnected from 468 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 4: the people around you. And what I learned this patient 469 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 4: that I worked with, she was in her sixties, and 470 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 4: she saw all of the horrific tragedies of that day. 471 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 4: She was physically injured herself. She helped a few people 472 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 4: get up and kind of save their life, if you will. 473 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 4: She lost co workers, and yet here she would always 474 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 4: come to our program year after year as part of 475 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 4: his screening, and we would screen her for depression anxiety, 476 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,959 Speaker 4: but she never met criteria enough to come into our 477 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 4: mental health program. But I'd see her in the hallways 478 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 4: and one day I had to ask her. I'm like, 479 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 4: what brings you here? What are you doing? Like you're 480 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 4: not here for any mental health issues. She's like, no, 481 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 4: I'm accompanying X y Z patients. I'm here to give 482 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 4: them support because of they have panic disorder. They can't 483 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 4: ride the subways. And I was like, what keeps you 484 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 4: so happy? How do you get out of bed every 485 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 4: morning seeing what you saw? And she said to me, 486 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 4: your name was Teresa, and she told me in Spanish, 487 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 4: She's like me proposito my purpose. And I was like wow, 488 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 4: like that was so profound to me. 489 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: Doctor Varmo. We need to go to a quick break, 490 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: but when we come back, we're going to dive into 491 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: your book's eight pillars, one of which you just mentioned purpose. 492 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: We're back. I'm here with doctor su Varma, and we're 493 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,719 Speaker 1: talking about purpose. Doctor Varma, that word is so weighted 494 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: in our culture. Everybody's talking about how do I find 495 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: my purpose? What is my purpose? Talk to me about 496 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: the link between optimism and purpose. 497 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 4: Yes, I'm playing with the words. A quote that I 498 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 4: heard was that your purpose is your soul's way of. 499 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 5: Engaging in the world. 500 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: Oh, I love that. 501 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 4: And then what I added to that is in a 502 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 4: way that is aligned with your own interests, hobbies, values 503 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 4: and talents. And so the key is that a purpose 504 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 4: is not something out there to be found, right, It's 505 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 4: something that exists within you. And if you can't find it, 506 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 4: you have to create it. It's your job to create it. 507 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 4: That is why you are here, right, to find meaning 508 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 4: and purpose. But the best way to find meaning and 509 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 4: purpose is in some form of. 510 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 5: Service for other people. 511 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that is the antidote to all of the 512 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 4: unhappiness that is existing. I mean, I can tell you 513 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 4: this from twenty years of clinical experience that in the 514 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 4: depths of depression, the last thing a person has the 515 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 4: energy for, or bandwidth for, they think at least, is 516 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 4: to help another person. And the help can be so small. 517 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 4: It could be like just checking in on a friend. 518 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 4: And if you're like, but I'm depressed and I'm lonely 519 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 4: and no one's checking in on me. By flipping the script, 520 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 4: when you provide service to someone in some way, in 521 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 4: some form, all of a sudden, it gives you a 522 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 4: sense of agency. I'm good at something mattering, somebody needs 523 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 4: me belonging right, and that is what is lost when 524 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 4: we're feeling sad and down and depressed. 525 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 1: You're hitting on something that I'm almost embarrassed to admit 526 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: I was reading your book. You talk about service so much, 527 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: and you say that you're not always supposed to find 528 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: purpose within your job. Sometimes it's outside of that. And like, 529 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: I work so many hours a week, how am I 530 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: supposed to even find an hour to go and dedicate 531 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: my time like I need to sleep. Yes, but you're right, 532 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: it fills you up so like the burnout actually comes 533 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: from that lack of joy that lack of purpose. 534 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 4: Yes, but you know, Danielle, you can find purpose. And 535 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 4: I talk about that like with they call it job 536 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 4: crafting or role remake or just in general, finding the 537 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 4: joy and the purpose and the help that you're providing 538 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 4: in the work that you're already doing. Like you don't 539 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 4: have to go I don't know, to a soup kitchen 540 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 4: or a shelter to make a difference, right Like you're 541 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,719 Speaker 4: making impact right here, like by providing information, your own expertise, 542 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 4: your humor. It's like sometimes finding purpose in the work 543 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 4: that you're already doing. So like if you're working a 544 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 4: corporate job, what can you do a lot of times 545 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 4: people will call me and they'll be like, I'm not 546 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 4: in HR, I'm not in wellness, I'm in finance. But 547 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 4: as a volunteer role, I've taken on like the corporation's 548 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 4: wellness week talk and I'm putting together or the happy 549 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 4: hour or the company parties or whatever bringing people together. 550 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 4: So there's simple ways that within the job that you're 551 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 4: already doing. 552 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: I really like that. Do you find that in your work? 553 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 3: Yeah? 554 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 4: I mean I feel so grateful, you know, I feel 555 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 4: like call I feel like it's a mission, like it's 556 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 4: something outside of myself. I have to say, like, it's 557 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 4: almost like, you know, not to get like so woo 558 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 4: woo here, but I feel. 559 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: Like we're a woo woo podcast. 560 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 4: I feel like I was born to do this, you know, 561 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 4: like I just and it was maybe easier because I 562 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 4: grew up in a family that was very mission oriented. 563 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 4: You know what was hard for me, Daniel, It's so 564 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 4: interesting the flip side of purpose and having so much 565 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 4: of it that you're dripping in it is that then 566 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 4: you don't always prioritize yourself, right, And that is something 567 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 4: I have to learn the hard way. 568 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: When you say the hard way, what do you mean? 569 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 5: Are you ready to hear my story? 570 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 3: Lease? 571 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 4: So here, I was in the midst of my residency, 572 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 4: and you know, I remember when I interviewed for this program, 573 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 4: they were like that you will be in the trenches, right, 574 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 4: so you're going to be working with the wealthiest of 575 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 4: the wealthiest and the poorest of the poor and everyone 576 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 4: in between. And I was like, sign me up, you know, 577 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 4: but I didn't know what I was getting myself into. 578 00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 4: We were working one hundred hours a week and then 579 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 4: in the midst of all of that I get a 580 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 4: call that my mom was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer. Now, 581 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 4: for the most part, it is treatable, right, except for 582 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 4: the fact that she had an underlying heart condition and 583 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 4: she couldn't get chemotherapy. Now, no one wanted to treat her. 584 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 4: So now, in addition to running around between five hospitals 585 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 4: of where I'm working, I'm now running around to hospitals 586 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 4: with her to see who would treat her. And I 587 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 4: started having these medical symptoms right and where my legs 588 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 4: were shaking and weak, and I didn't know what was 589 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 4: going on, and I was putting it off. And then 590 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 4: finally when I sought treatment, the neurologist was like, after 591 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 4: all these tests, you're totally fine, And I was like, 592 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 4: but I'm not. I'm experiencing like symptoms, physical physical symptoms 593 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 4: right and to the point where like it was hard 594 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 4: to stand to walk. And what I realized then and 595 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 4: now is that the body expresses what the mind cannot. 596 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 4: And so my body was manifesting all this stress of 597 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:51,959 Speaker 4: what's going to happen to my mom, Is she going 598 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 4: to be okay? Again? That catastrophizing, right, and the mind 599 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 4: going to the worst place scenario, and feeling weak, and 600 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 4: I realized that my home culture was all about we 601 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 4: take care of other people, we are strong, we don't 602 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 4: seek help. 603 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 2: Right. 604 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 4: So what I realized after going to therapy is that 605 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 4: I'm not saying it was so hard for me to 606 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 4: say me first, or wanting to take up space. It's 607 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 4: not saying me first, it's saying me too, like that 608 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 4: I get to I deserve to have a scene at 609 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 4: the table to prioritize my own wellness, which is not 610 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 4: something I did coming from a South Asian background, you know, 611 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 4: the daughter that handled everything also being a physician, like 612 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 4: I became her physician in some way like general practitioners. 613 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 5: So I learned a lot. 614 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 4: And I talk about this in the Pillar of Pride, 615 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 4: which is really about self compassion and how like we 616 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 4: focus so much on self esteem. Yeah, and the problem 617 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 4: with that is that self esteem is only as good 618 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 4: as long as you're performing and you're achieving and you're 619 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 4: doing well, and when things are not going right in 620 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 4: your life, self esteem tanks. 621 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 1: This was the most surprising part of your book for me. Really. Yeah, 622 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: I've been obsessed with confidence for a long time because 623 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: I felt like a confident kid and I saw the 624 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: difference between my friends who felt confident and those who didn't. 625 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: And I felt really grateful for my parents for instilling 626 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: that in me. So I couldn't. I was like shocked, like, 627 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: why doesn't she like self esteem? What is better than 628 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: self esteem? Self worth and self compassion? Right? 629 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 4: Because self compassion does a few things. It normalizes what 630 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 4: you're feeling. Yeah, right, and so you don't go down 631 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 4: the trap of shame and blame. 632 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 5: Right. 633 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 4: And shame is a precursor to depression. And it is 634 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 4: a slope, slippery slope that turns you inwards and says 635 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 4: not just I did a bad thing, It says I'm 636 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,719 Speaker 4: a bad person. There's a character assassination involved when they're shame. Guilt, 637 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 4: on the other hand, isn't as bad because it focuses 638 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 4: towards reparation. Okay, I did something bad. What can I 639 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 4: do to fix it? Right? So guilt is better than shame, right, 640 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 4: But in extreme amounts, even guilt isn't great. But what 641 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 4: self compassion says is first thing is observed. What be 642 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 4: mindful of the negative emotions or thoughts that you're having. 643 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 4: And then there's an acceptance part. Right, And I added 644 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 4: the part where you then move forward and you make 645 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 4: a plan. And they've done so many studies on self 646 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 4: compassion that shows over and over again that if you 647 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 4: do this like three step five minute exercise, okay, observe 648 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 4: mindful observation of the negative thoughts except and then what 649 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 4: I love is this idea of common humanity is that 650 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 4: I'm not the only one who's been through this, right, 651 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 4: And they showed that with parents who were just experiencing stress, 652 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 4: by doing this exercise, their anxiety calms down. And also students, 653 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 4: if they're failing an exam, they do this ten minute 654 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 4: compassion exercise like nothing else. They didn't study anymore, they 655 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 4: take the test again, they do better. 656 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you changed my mind. I was really grateful for 657 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: that mention because I think the self esteem part is 658 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: sort of the armor that I had around me, and 659 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: through therapy, I've learned way more self compassion. And the 660 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: thing that has I think changed my life the most 661 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: is that when you give yourself more compassion or you 662 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: judge yourself less, you're actually able to give more compassion 663 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: to others, judge others less. Yeah, it all starts inward, 664 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: and you're giving other people a gift. Yes, you have 665 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: been an expert on so many talk shows. What's a 666 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: part of your book that people haven't touched on that 667 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: you think is really important. 668 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 4: You know, one thing that I'm really passionate about is 669 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 4: just the idea of where we're going as a society, 670 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 4: and I'm really concerned about it. There's something called the 671 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 4: shallowing hypothesis, which is that our relationships are not going 672 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 4: as deep as they used to. 673 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: I have, so I have a whole thing on this. 674 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: Oh tell me, because I'm obsessed with questions. I think 675 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: questions are a love language, and it's really about presence. 676 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: To me, a question is saying I'd rather be here 677 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: with you than anybody else. 678 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 5: Yes. 679 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: And I think what you're hitting on is this high communication, 680 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: low connection world. Yes, yes, And what did you call it? 681 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 4: The shallowing ye shallowing, shallowing hypothesis, And you know, there's 682 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 4: a lot of research behind it. But they're showing that, 683 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 4: like everything is getting dumbed down. And actually there was 684 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 4: an interesting article that was, like, even our lyrics in songs, 685 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 4: the words have become simpler. And not only are the 686 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 4: words simpler, they're fewer. It's the same repetitive stuff. And 687 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 4: this is not even ai. This is just songwriting. And 688 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,719 Speaker 4: also the lyrics are more angry. I thought this was interesting, 689 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 4: and more self obsessed. This is these are the three takeaways. 690 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 4: And I was like, and they're like, this is a 691 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 4: reflection of who we are. 692 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: More angry, more self obsessed, and simpler. 693 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 4: And simpler, and like just this idea of are like 694 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 4: the mere presence of a phone on a dinner table 695 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 4: already signals that the conversation isn't going to go deep. 696 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 4: It's a predictor because you're already anticipating some sort of interruption, 697 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 4: and there's a lot of anxiety of like, oh my god, 698 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 4: this person has to leave or something's going to happen. 699 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: Yes, you feel like they're busy. Maybe I shouldn't be here. 700 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: Is this too much for them? 701 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 5: Yes? 702 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 4: And so I talk about like how to this idea 703 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 4: of emotional attunement, which is like being in tune with 704 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 4: the person's emotions. So I love that you ask the 705 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 4: questions and. 706 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: You kind of I think sometimes we forget to ask 707 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: big questions to people closest to usk, as we ask 708 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: how's your day? You know, we're in the minutia. 709 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 4: I think that the shollowing hypoth is what's happening to 710 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 4: our society and the fact that everything is like contact less, Like, yes, 711 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 4: we have more convenience like the Amazon, Instacar and all 712 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 4: that stuff zoom, but we're missing so many of those 713 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 4: built in interactions like just signing a credit card slip 714 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 4: back in the day. So that's why I like, I 715 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 4: love when I see things coming out of Europe where 716 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 4: they're having walking clubs where people, you know, where the 717 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 4: point is the talking, the point is the social interaction. Here, 718 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 4: I feel like you have to dupe people into they're like, no, 719 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 4: thank you, I don't need social interaction. Yes, but I'll 720 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 4: come for the biking, but don't make me talk or interact, 721 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 4: you know. 722 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think they're missing it. Yeah, they're missing 723 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: the point for everybody listening, including myself. What are four 724 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: things that practical optimists do? 725 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 4: So there are four things that practical optimists do every day, 726 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 4: which is make time for the four ms. So those 727 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 4: are mastery. And the key here is that you don't 728 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 4: have to be a master to experience mastery. It could 729 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 4: be a sport, it could be a hobby, but the 730 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 4: idea that you're getting better at something progress yes, and 731 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 4: that creates creating a flow state in your brain where 732 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 4: you're totally immersed in something. So take on something that's 733 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 4: just for you, doesn't have to be for anyone else. Mindfulness, 734 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 4: and this doesn't have to be a sixty minute meditation. 735 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 4: It could literally be one minute. Listen to an app 736 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 4: comap or whatever it is on YouTube. But the key 737 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 4: here is to do something single mindedly. Even if you're 738 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 4: washing dishes, just focus just on that. You can listen 739 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 4: to this podcast while you're doing the dishes, but otherwise, 740 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 4: just be focused. The other one is meaningful engagement and 741 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 4: in whatever way that you want to go deeper. Do 742 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,959 Speaker 4: you want to do the fifty two questions? If there 743 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 4: was a podcast that you listen to share it with 744 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 4: people something this made me think of you? You know that, 745 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 4: I think that's really key every day, And to do 746 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 4: like once a week face to face to meet someone 747 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 4: in person, I think that's really key. 748 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 5: And then movement. 749 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 4: We don't realize that the benefit of movement in every 750 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 4: aspect of our life, not only cognitive health, bone health, 751 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 4: muscle health, all of that. Right, if you feel like 752 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 4: I don't know what my purpose is, do one workout 753 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 4: session that one workout session is enough to on some level, 754 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 4: decrease anxiety and depression, but also boost yoursel sense of 755 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 4: purpose in life. 756 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 5: I mean, how awesome is. 757 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: That Every time I've been really sad, all I know 758 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 1: is to turn to to go workout, and I have 759 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: my mom to thank for that. 760 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 5: That's amazing. 761 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: But I don't quite understand that link. Why does it? Yeah, 762 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: give us it makes me feel purposeful? 763 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 4: Yes, totally so on one level. Okay, so it's boosting 764 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 4: the endorphins, it's boosting dopamine. You even your body image 765 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 4: changes just from work one workout. You're the same person 766 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 4: from forty five minutes ago, more or less. Yeah, plus 767 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 4: one workout. Right, so you're like, I didn't like suddenly 768 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 4: grow a six pack or what, you know, just one 769 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 4: forty five minute workout, but you feel so productive. You're 770 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 4: like I did something really hard today. And it's that 771 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 4: sense of agency, like I can, I am capable. So 772 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 4: I feel like the takeaway. So these four habits, they 773 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 4: are really like habits unto themselves, but you don't realize 774 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 4: they are also habits that beget other habits because once 775 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 4: you do them, every single day, you connected with a friend, right, 776 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 4: you did the workout, you did some form of meditation 777 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 4: or whatever it is. You got better at a scale 778 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 4: or a hobby, and hey, you can combine all four 779 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 4: of them by pick one class, go with a friend. 780 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 4: You've hit off, checked off, meaningful engagement. You've done the movement. 781 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 4: You can do some mindfulness. If it's yoga mastery, you're 782 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 4: getting better at it. But then you come back in 783 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 4: one hour you could hit all four and then the 784 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 4: rest of your day you're like, I'm an awesome person. 785 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 3: Bring it on. 786 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 4: So you're going to start opening bills that you've been 787 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 4: putting aside. You're going to open mails. You're going to 788 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 4: start applying for a new job. You might take on 789 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 4: a new venture. You might plan a trip, you might 790 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 4: ask for the promotion, you might ask somebody out on 791 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 4: a date. Like it's going to give it's going to 792 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:34,359 Speaker 4: refuel you. 793 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,439 Speaker 1: It's the objects in motion. Stay in motion. 794 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 5: Absolutely. I love that you said that. 795 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: Okay, what is one thing we can all do today 796 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,399 Speaker 1: to increase our optimism? 797 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 4: Learn to reframe any negative situation. So bringing it back 798 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 4: to me talking about my dad, like, yes, you can 799 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 4: feel sorry for yourself. The world sometimes feels like it's 800 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 4: on fire because it kind of is right, like, with 801 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 4: all that's happening in the world, it's so easy to 802 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 4: get pulled down and drag down in the negativity, and 803 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 4: you can just ask yourself, how can I be a 804 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,760 Speaker 4: more compassionate version of myself? How can I give myself grace? 805 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 4: How can I give other people grace? 806 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: Doctor Varma, I knew that this conversation was going to 807 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: be wonderful, but I didn't know just how wonderful. Thank 808 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: you so much for this. 809 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,439 Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you so much for having me now. 810 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,240 Speaker 4: I'm such a pleasure to meet you in person. 811 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: Doctor Sue Varma is a psychiatrist and cognitive behavioral therapist 812 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: and the author of the book Practical Optimism. It's hard 813 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: to pick just one takeaway from this conversation because I 814 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: think doctor Varmah actually illuminated a lot. But one of 815 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,399 Speaker 1: the lessons that stuck with me was not so much 816 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: about her work or her research or her study, which 817 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,399 Speaker 1: was all fascinating. It was how she chose to live 818 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 1: her life. And it's that optimism is a muscle, not 819 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,800 Speaker 1: a mindset. I think that it's something we take for granted. 820 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 1: We think we should just be optimistic, but there's all 821 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: these practices and habits we can put in place to 822 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: have more agency over it. 823 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 2: I'm embarrassed to admit how old I was when I 824 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 2: actually learned this and put it into practice. I don't 825 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 2: think it's something that most people grow up learning or 826 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:11,280 Speaker 2: being taught. 827 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 1: We don't think about it. We just take it for granted. 828 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: I think, what do you do to be more optimistic? 829 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 2: I think it's about gratitude. It's about perspective. I think 830 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 2: my family really helps me with that. And this idea 831 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 2: of remembering when you wanted what you have now finding 832 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 2: small ways to remind yourself of that every day. 833 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,799 Speaker 1: That sounds like gratitude's big for you. 834 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that makes me more optimistic. 835 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: I love that you mentioned family. I think family makes 836 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: me more optimistic too. And seeing older relatives and they've 837 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,359 Speaker 1: gone through hard things and they make it through. That 838 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: makes me more optimistic. Like having that totem poll almost Yeah. 839 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,359 Speaker 3: And friends too, friends that make you laugh. 840 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. She mentions connection a lot, which is important, those girlfriends, 841 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: those dinner table conversations that just make everything hard feel 842 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:10,320 Speaker 1: like it's gonna be okay, okay. Tomorrow, we're doing something 843 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 1: a little different. We're putting on a memorial for The 844 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: girl Boss. Culture critic Lee Stein helps us lay her 845 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: to rest oof. 846 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 3: I got a lot to say about her. Not Lee Stein, 847 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 3: but the girl Boss. 848 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 2: Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 849 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can 850 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,320 Speaker 2: find me your girl Simone boys on Instagram and TikTok. 851 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,240 Speaker 1: I'm Danielle robe at Danielle robe on Instagram and TikTok. 852 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 1: That's ro b A. 853 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 2: Y See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side. 854 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: Bye besties.