1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, there's 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: Chuck and this is short stuff, So let's stop wasting 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: time and begin speaking. Now. Yes, we are going to 4 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: talk about adoption birth certificate access and where did we 5 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: get this? Uh? Where do we get some of this? Rob? 6 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: I believe we found out how stuff works, but they 7 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: were published it from the Conversation. We're working largely from 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: an article by Andrea Ross, right, and this is all 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: about the thorny matter of uh whether or not, not 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: really whether or not, but the idea that a grown 11 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: up or maybe sometimes not even grown up adopted person 12 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: um might want to gain access to their original birth certificate. 13 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: And in many states in the United States, those are 14 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: sealed and you are not allowed to unless you jump 15 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: through a lot of hoops, which is really interesting, Like 16 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: you think access to birth certificates would be the most 17 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: boring thing you can think of, But um, I saw 18 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: it described as a basic human right to know your 19 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: genuine identity. UM. And that's a really good point. I 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: can't I It's just I'm sure it's so easy for 21 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: somebody like me on the outside to just be like, well, 22 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: sure you know, do that or don't do that. It's 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: is it that big of a deal. And then to 24 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: to put yourself in somebody's shoes is going through that 25 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: who wants to know who their biological parents are and 26 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: is not allowed as being prevented from doing that by 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: the state. I can't imagine anything more frustrating than that. Really, Yeah, 28 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: I got some thoughts, but we'll we'll pepper those in. 29 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: As it stands now, there are ten states in the 30 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: United States that offer um complete access to their original 31 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: birth certificates. Um. In eighteen states, I believe that you 32 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: need a court order, Is that right? Yeah? In eighteen states, UM, 33 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: what happens is they put your original birth certificate under 34 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: seal and they issue you a supplemental birth certificate that 35 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: doesn't have your biological parents names on it has your 36 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: adoptive parents names. And in those states, if you successfully 37 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: petition the court, they will unseal your original birth certificate 38 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: and then you can find out who your biological parents are, right. Uh. 39 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: And then in twenty three states there you can get 40 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: a redacted version, which I don't even see the point that. Uh. 41 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: And then in twelve other states they have restrictions that 42 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: allow for access. And this is the one I really 43 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: don't understand. It's just between if you were born between 44 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: certain time frames. So the best that I can come 45 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: up with for that is that there were laws passed 46 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: that that named like those dates that are still on 47 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: the books that are now affecting people today's but those 48 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: dates have been outlived. So now there's people who have 49 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: access to their birth certificate, whereas other people who were 50 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: born after a different date don't, which makes it arbitrary 51 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: and an easy low to overturn. Okay, all right, well 52 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: let's take a break and we'll talk about kind of 53 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: where this came from and how the culture has shifted 54 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: over the years right after this alright, so amending birth 55 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: certificates uh started I think I'm saying birth Uh this 56 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: started in the nineteen forties, originally to kind of keep 57 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: parents from interfering with the adoptive family of the child. 58 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: And there has been, um, you know, a big swing 59 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: over the last seventy years since since then as far 60 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: as what the norms are like, things have really changed 61 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,119 Speaker 1: over the years in terms of how adoptions go down. Yeah, 62 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: because Andrew Ross points out that there's a lot of 63 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: people who think that the off the book's reason for 64 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: sealing birth certificates was also to protect the identity of 65 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: unwed mothers, because back in that time, if you're if 66 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: you were out it as an unwed mother who had 67 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: had what they considered illegitimate child that you put up 68 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: for adoption, Um, it could probably make it hard for 69 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: you to get a job. You might lose friends, your 70 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: neighbors might shun you. It was a big deal. And 71 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: so yeah, she's saying, like, we've really come a long 72 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 1: way since then. So if that's really the reason why 73 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: we were sealing birth certificates to begin with, it doesn't 74 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: make any sense anymore. Yeah, And there's a lot of 75 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: states that have come around since then. Obviously we mentioned 76 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: those ten that now allow complete access, but as we speak, 77 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: there are other states that are kind of in the 78 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 1: midst of enacting new policy changes. I know Tennessee in 79 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: Connecticut and Rhode Island all heaven and the last few years, 80 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: UM kind of put legislation for word that favor access 81 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,559 Speaker 1: for uh. I keep saying kids, but I guess usually 82 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: you have to be over eighteen, right, Yeah, that's another 83 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: thing too. There are some so clearly there's a big 84 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: patchwork of laws, right and depending on what state you 85 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: live in, you might have, like you said, unfederal access 86 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: or no access at all. But then there's a bunch 87 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: of states that have laws that say, when you turn eighteen, 88 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: you can get your original birth certificate if you ask 89 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: for it. Yeah, and it's you know, adoption is different 90 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: across the board in all states anyway, So it's when 91 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: I was going through it, I just remember being shocked 92 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: at sort of every state has its own set of 93 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: rules and laws and um, which you know, obviously a 94 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: lot of people feel that's how it should be, states 95 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: just choosing the way they want to do things. But 96 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: there is no sort of straight ahead way that you 97 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: can say this is how adoption works. So it doesn't 98 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: surprise me that there's no straightforward reason or way that 99 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: people can determine or get their hands on their original 100 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: birth certificate. Right. So yeah, and like you said, there 101 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: are some changes on the horizon, Like I think Tennessee 102 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: said that um they said a parent, a birth parent 103 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: is no longer allowed to veto UM the their biological 104 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 1: child's right to access their original birth certificate, which is 105 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: a It's a feature in a lot of states as well, 106 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: where you can be granted access to if you petition 107 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: at court, but your biological parent has the right to 108 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: say Nope, they can't, I don't want that released. And 109 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: usually it goes the other way to the biological child 110 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: can also can can revoke or veto the release of 111 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: their own birth certificate to their biological parents. Yeah, I 112 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 1: mean it is. It is a thorny issue when you 113 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: start looking at kind of both sides, because you certainly 114 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: feel like it's a right to be able to know 115 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: where you came from. Uh, and it's certainly made a 116 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: lot easier these days with DNA testing, if that's something 117 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: that someone can afford to do. But uh, you also 118 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: think about, you know, the right of a biological mom 119 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: to retain their privacy, because if they had an adoption 120 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: plan to begin with it, one of the reasons may 121 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: have or one of the things that went along with 122 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: that may have been like, listen, this is why I'm 123 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: doing this. I don't want to be contacted. I don't 124 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: want to have a relationship. And you know, I guess 125 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, even if they live 126 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: in a state where they can make contact, the biological 127 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: parents can still say, well, now I don't want a relationship. Yeah, 128 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: they can for sure. So to kind of like take 129 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: a middle ground for some of these states that don't 130 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: have unfederate access to original birth certificates, they've created something 131 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: called Confidential in their intermediary services, and it's basically like Tinder, 132 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: but for adoptions or biological families. Right, so one family 133 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: member can say, hey, I really want to get in 134 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: touch with my biological parents. Can can you see if 135 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: you can put me in touch with them? That that 136 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: service will contact the biological parents and the biological parent, 137 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: and so will they're swipe left or right right. Um, 138 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: Here's what I didn't see mentioned anywhere that I can't 139 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: quite wrap my head around is that these days, it's, Um, 140 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: I think it's very uncommon for adoptive parents too to 141 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: not share this information and to say like, no, I'm 142 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: not gonna let you know who this was. That's a 143 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: very old school sort of way adoptions used to go. 144 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: So I'm kind of wondering how much this matters in 145 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: these modern times where we're generally parents are pretty open 146 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: about saying like, hey, this is who your logical parents were. 147 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: If you ever want to get in touch with them, 148 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: we can try and do that one. Yeah, so um, 149 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: Andrea Ross sites one statistic. I'm not sure if it's 150 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: in the United States in general or if it's in 151 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: New Hampshire. But um, less than one percent, actually less 152 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: than three quarters of a percent of birth parents said 153 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: that they don't want to be contacted by um their 154 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: biological child ever. Yeah, that I want to know more 155 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: about that because that just says in states like New Hampshire, right, 156 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: But that seems like a very narrow sort of well, 157 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 1: states offering unrestricted access. So yeah, I don't know, it's 158 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: it's I guess it's kind of unclear. Yeah, well it 159 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: gives so if you have unrestricted access to your birth certificate, 160 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: I think the state some states give the biological parent 161 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: the right to say please like check the box like 162 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: don't I don't want to be contacted ever kind of thing. So, 163 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: like the the kid might be able to see who 164 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: the biological parent is, but there they will also get 165 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: a message thing like don't don't bother this, they don't 166 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: want to be contacted. Yeah, it's you know, this is 167 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: something I'm going to face one day as a parent 168 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: of an adopted child, and it's I think they say 169 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 1: that girls usually are more interested in this earlier than boys, 170 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,719 Speaker 1: and that like in the teenage years, typically girls might 171 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: be a little more interested in making that connection. In boys, 172 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: it's like sometimes in their adult life. But you know, 173 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 1: this is something we're gonna face and we're always it's 174 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: always that thing where you you're gonna do We're gonna 175 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 1: do the right thing and be like, all right, if that, 176 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: if now is the time, we'll try. But there's always 177 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: that risk that biological mom or and or dad it's 178 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: just gonna say no, thank you, And then you know, 179 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: that's just something you've got to go through. Is a family. 180 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: It's tough, tough stuff, and that's one of the tough 181 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: parts about adopts. Yeah, but you guys are a strong family. 182 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 1: You can do it. Yeah, And you know, I would 183 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: love for there to be relationships one day, but that's 184 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: something that you know, you can't force them, So we're 185 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: definitely not one way or the other for sure. I 186 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: think that's a good thing to remember and to end 187 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: this episode on what do you think? I totally agree 188 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: and short stuff is out. Stuff You Should Know is 189 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my 190 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app Apple podcasts, 191 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.