WEBVTT - DOGE for Dummies 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:08.560 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. Let me tell you 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:09.520 we have a new star. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:14.680 A star is born Elon pumped up on mars Uson Kennedy. 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.520 He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.040 Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:21.800 I feel for the guy. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.320 I would say ninety eight percent really appreciate what he does. 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:28.480 But those two percent that are nasty, they are I'll 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:29.880 pit in four post. 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.320 We are meant for great things in the United States 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:34.600 of America, and Elon reminds. 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:37.760 Us of that we don't have a fourth branch of 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:40.599 governments called Elon Musk. 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.560 Welcome to Elon, Inc. Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:57.120 It's Tuesday, February twenty fifth. I'm Max Chafkin, and today 0:00:57.360 --> 0:00:58.000 we have. 0:00:58.120 --> 0:00:59.520 Another special episode. 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.440 We are bringing you a conversation we had live on 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:06.679 stage at the on Air Fest in Brooklyn on Thursday, 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.479 and it was all about Doge, featuring me your normal host, 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:13.960 David Papadopolis, Bloomberg's Elon Musk reporter Dana Hall, and a 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:18.280 special guest, McKenna Kelly of Wired Magazine, who, along with 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.080 a bunch of other reporters at Wired has really been 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:23.840 all over the Doge story. We were so excited to 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:27.280 talk to her about Elon's journey through the federal government, 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:32.560 but before we get there, it was another chaotic, fascinating, 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:36.959 wild weekend of Musk news, especially Musk news around Trump. 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:42.479 On Saturday night, federal workers, including judges, nurses, office works, 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.960 everyone received an email from the Office of Personnel Management 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.520 the OPM, asking them to list five bullet points of 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.720 their accomplishments of the past week. And then on X 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.120 Elon said if you didn't do that, then you would 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:59.080 be fired. And there was confusion in the days hours 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.640 of followed. You had government officials saying they didn't have 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:05.040 to respond, Musk saying they would definitely be fired. And 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:06.920 so we're going to break that all down and to 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:10.560 do that. Joining me is Kurt Wagner, Bloomberg social media 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.720 reporter and of course the QB one of this podcast. 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.400 Hey, Kurt, QB one, I appreciate that, IMAX. 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:21.400 Hey Kurt, all right, so Kurt, you read this email. 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:26.320 Let's start just tell us what happened, and I want 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:28.400 to hear what you think is kind of going on, 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:30.280 what Elon must be trying to do here. 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.000 So, yeah, as you mentioned on Saturday, federal employees received 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.000 this email with the subject line what did you do 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:40.120 last week? And the directive was to essentially reply to 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.959 the email with a bullet pointed list of five things 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.280 that they accomplished in their job. And I think it's 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:51.320 sort of twofold here, right. The first is perhaps the obvious, 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:55.480 like Elon is simply challenging people to justify their existence 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.760 in the federal government, justify their job, justify their role. 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:01.320 And it's some thing that we can talk about, but 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:03.720 that we've seen him do at Twitter over the years 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.320 and some of his other businesses. The other thing that's 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:09.520 sort of more interesting here, and again a bit of 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.840 a repeat from Elon, is he believes that there are 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:17.160 people who work at the federal government who actually do 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:17.800 not exist. 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:18.160 Right. 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.079 His sort of theory is, if you don't reply to 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:23.680 the email, maybe that's because you're not a real person, 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:26.359 and therefore you know, we shouldn't be paying you. And again, 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:29.800 this is something when he took over Twitter, before he 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:34.760 paid out a big lump sum of restricted stock units. 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:37.720 Right after he took over, he actually had executives at 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.640 the company combing through to make sure, like are we 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.280 paying real people. He's sort of paranoid at this idea 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.600 that companies have like ghost employees on the books or 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:48.600 something like that, and so this would be a way 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:51.800 to like find those people and eliminate them. 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:56.480 Apparently, the experience of being an employee receiving an email 0:03:56.520 --> 0:04:01.160 on a mysterious email on Saturday afternoon from a random 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:05.040 email address not not signed by person saying you need 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.520 to like come up with five bullet points and send 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.440 this by Monday or you might be fired Like that? 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:12.680 Would I would? I would not. 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:13.760 This would be the. 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:15.360 Only thing I would think about for the next like 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:17.359 seventy two hours if I were in their shoes, Like 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:19.800 this seems like just pretty much an effort to like 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:24.400 drive workers crazy, Like beyond verifying that they're real, is 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:26.880 the idea just to like make them feel bad or something. 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:28.960 Well, I think there's an element of that, right, And 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.400 you have to remember why this is happening in sort 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:33.440 of the broader context that's going on right now, which 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:37.200 is that elon Is is aggressively slashing the budget. He's 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:41.080 looking for people to take buyouts, he's looking for people 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.840 to resign and leave, right, and so the more kind 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:48.080 of pressure you can apply to the workforce, be it 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.520 implicit or in this case very explicit, right like do 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:54.279 this or you are fired. I think the more he 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:56.320 thinks he's going to weed out sort of the people 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:58.440 who don't really want to be there, those long time 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:02.000 you know, kind of lifetime bureaucrats, if you will, who 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:04.480 maybe are just arresting investing, as we would say in 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:07.000 the tech industry. And so I do think part of 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:09.640 this is the strategy just keep his thumb on people, 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.000 make sure that they feel that there's constantly somebody looking 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.760 over their shoulder, and you know, eventually people will weed 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:18.920 themselves out. That makes his job of cutting the budget 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:19.520 even easier. 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:22.559 And just like with the fork in the road email, 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.440 this was the email he sent about a month ago 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.680 from the same email address. And Kurt, there's the other 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.839 sort of point of comparison, which is that when you're 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.400 talking about a private company, of course, like firing employees, 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.479 laying people off is a pretty effective way of cutting costs. 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:41.480 Not clear at least when we're talking about the federal budget. 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:44.520 Yeah, I think to your point, in a private company, 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:48.560 usually salary benefits, you know, for one K match those 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:52.040 types of like, employee costs are a much are pretty 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.960 significant percentage of the overall budget, right, But I think 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:57.120 and I don't know the specifics, unfortunately, but I think 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:00.360 when you look at the scale of the federal budge, 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.320 you're not going to have the same percentage of that 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:07.560 sort of be wrapped up in employee and HR related costs, right. 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:11.200 And so again, I think this is as as much 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.000 symbolism as anything, right Max, I mean, like, his whole 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:17.120 thing here is that the government has bloated, that he's challenged, 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.320 that these workers don't do anything, that they've sort of 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.120 just been kicking back and cash and paychecks, you know, 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:25.640 on the American taxpayer's dime for years. And so I 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:29.279 think part of this is cutting you know, budget, but 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:30.760 I think a bigger part of this might just be 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:35.040 the symbolism of what it means to significantly reduce headcount at. 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.000 The federal post as HR strategy, right. 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:39.680 I mean, like, and I think that's part of why 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:41.599 we're seeing so much confusion. That's why he's saying, Oh, 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:42.839 you have to do this, Well, maybe you don't have 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:44.640 to do this, maybe you do have to do this. Like, 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.240 the point is not to get any kind of response. 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.040 And clearly Musk has said already that they're not going 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:54.440 to really read these responses. It's just the act of saying, look, you, 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.040 federal workers, you're not doing anything. 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:57.000 I think that's right. 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.039 I think that there's a huge part of this that 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:03.719 is reformative theater as much as it is effective government cutting. 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:05.960 Yeah, and it's a rhetorical question. 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:10.360 The goal here is not to legitimately find out, you know, hey, 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:13.240 what are the two million federal workers doing, is to 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.640 show them that he thinks that they're doing nothing. And 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:19.760 I think more importantly, to show Donald Trump Republican voters, 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.760 you know, Congress, that he is he is really doing 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.240 something here. He's he's going to war with the quote 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:26.400 unquote administrative state. 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:26.800 Right. 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.240 And I think these supporters of this strategy, their argument 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:32.800 has been, well, hey, this takes what five minutes, Right, Like, 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:34.720 if you're actually doing your job all week, you should 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.440 somewhat easily be able to send over, hey, here's a 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:39.720 list of five things. But to your point, Max, Like, 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.280 that is not the intention of this, right Like, part 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.040 of it is to say, justify your job. But again, 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:47.720 part of this is a sort of psychological warfare, right, 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.160 make people uncomfortable, make people, remind people that he's sitting 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.560 there watching every move that you make, and sort of, 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.600 you know, challenge them in a way that I don't 0:07:57.600 --> 0:07:59.360 think a lot of people are used to being challenged. 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:04.200 So, Kurt, we're talking about like what Elon Musk may 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:06.360 be trying to do in terms of his in terms 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:08.840 of politically, in terms of the messaging, but like do 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:13.240 you understand the plan practically? Like what are they going 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:16.520 to do with these responses? And like is this really 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:17.720 a money saving measure? 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.040 So I think it's a good question, right, because if 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.120 you have two million people sending in five bullet points, 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:25.960 like just manually to review that stuff in any meaningful 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.800 well way seems almost impossible. And actually, again to go 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.840 back to the Twitter days, I mentioned the whole challenge 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.000 to engineers, Hey, print out your code to prove that 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.000 you've been doing something over the last thirty days. You know, 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:39.959 a couple hours after that, they were telling people, hey, 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:40.880 shred this code. 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:43.079 We're not actually going to do these reviews. Right. 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.400 It was again sort of like a scare tactic that 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.200 in that regard nothing came of it. So part of 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.800 me wonders if this will ultimately you know, fall into 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.760 that same bucket. If anyone will actually manually review this stuff, 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.600 they'll just simply see, okay, who responded and who didn't 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.480 and kind of draw a line there there was a report, 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.840 and forgive me because I can't remember who who reported this. 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.120 That perhaps AI right, right, they would use GROC to like, 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:08.000 you know, quickly analyze this stuff. 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:09.760 I suppose that is a possibility. 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.120 But again, if we're looking at what he's done, historically, 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:17.880 these types of challenges have mostly been performative, right, And 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:20.319 so I part of me thinks that, especially with the 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.079 scale we're dealing with here, with two million government employees, 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.040 they just want people to reply to the email, prove 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:27.920 that they are a real human being that exists within 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.320 this government, and take all the people who didn't reply 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:32.480 and deal with them separately. 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.000 Let's talk about the political fallout and the legal fallout, right, 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.400 So one thing that happened is. 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.520 You had, you had some lawsuits. You had you had 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:42.240 employee unions. 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:46.520 Who are already I've already tried to oppose Musk's authority 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.480 to do this and OPM's authority to do this, adding 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:53.600 this email into their you know, into the litigation. 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.880 Yeah, And advising federal workers to ignore this too, right, 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:01.880 saying basically, don't take the bait, don't don't respond to 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.280 this thing. There's a lot of confusion as to what 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:06.640 people should or shouldn't do. And again, let's look back 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:09.319 at a little history lesson we have from Twitter. 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:09.719 Max s. 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.360 You'll remember in November of twenty twenty two, shortly after 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.200 Elon took over, he sent that fork in the Road 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:16.600 email that we're all now familiar with because of the 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.240 government example. But he sent this email fork in the 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.920 Road to employees and said basically, click this button to 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:25.120 commit to being hardcore and staying with the company. If 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:26.679 you don't click the button, I will take that as 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.720 your resignation, and you know there's the door. Well, he 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.079 is being sued, he being Elon is being sued by 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:36.200 hundreds of employees who did not click the button, right 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.800 and where they're terminated. And their argument, which has actually 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.800 been pretty successful in court thus far, is that not 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.719 replying to an email does not equate to a resignation. 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:48.160 Right. 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.240 So even if Elon says, hey, if you don't reply, 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:55.239 you resign, lawyers and judges are not agreeing with that analysis. 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.080 They're basically saying, you know, that's the equivalent of being 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:02.840 laid off. And being laid off and voluntarily resigning are 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:05.040 two very different things in the world of corporate America, 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:07.920 because one of them yields a lot bigger and more 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.800 valuable severance than the other. It just got an update, 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:13.560 believe it or not, this morning, heard from a former 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.439 employee who's part of this sort of mass lawsuit that's 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:20.600 going on. It's slowly but surely working in the employees' favor. 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.880 Twenty for twenty twenty employees who have gone through arbitration 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:29.160 have all won full severance from Twitter for their layoffs, 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.400 and so they're setting a precedent right now that the 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.880 strategy that Elon used to cut costs at Twitter did 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.679 not really work, or at least it delayed the payments, right, 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:41.240 but he's still going to have to, it seems like, 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.880 pay all these employees what they're owed, and so again 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:46.760 sets sort of a bit of a precedent for what 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:49.280 we might see here with the government as well. 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.720 There's another factor here too, which is that one of 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.840 the cool things about taking over Twitter and sending out 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.880 these aggressive tweets is that you are the decider, right 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:01.800 like Elon Muskuld just like more or less. You know, 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:04.800 of course, there was litigation he could just get away with, 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:08.320 like firing people willy nilly. Now he has all these 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.480 other constituents. And I think that's one of the most 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:12.559 interesting things about this episode. 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:13.000 We had. 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:15.200 First of all, we had zero PM, perhaps because of 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.160 the issue you just brought up, put out a memo 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.680 essentially saying, actually, this is voluntary. We also had a 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:25.200 bunch of cabinet officials, including cash Tell, the new director 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:30.840 of the FBI, saying publicly or semi publicly, that staff 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.200 should hold off right. And this to me feels like 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.680 a real first of all, a difference between what's happening 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.280 at Doze and what happened at Twitter, but also perhaps 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.600 you know, the beginnings of a real rift between Musk 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.280 and other members of the Trump administration. 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:45.960 Yeah. 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.000 I mean, I think you hit the nail on the 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.600 head with the most obvious difference here, which is that 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.960 with Twitter and with all of his businesses, Musk is 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.160 the boss, right, He is the official decider of things 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.400 and has that control and power, and people might disagree 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.960 with how he wields that power, but those are private 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.439 businesses for the most part that he can do with 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.560 what he wants. He is, now, to your point, sort 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:14.360 of operating in a federal government position, and not only that, 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.240 but a position that people are very confused about in 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.800 terms of the legality of all of these things that 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:21.320 he's doing. Right, a lot of what he's doing is 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.239 being challenged in courts, are being challenged by other politicians, 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:28.240 So the landscape is not equivalent. Even though he's sort 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.440 of taking the same playbook that he's used as a 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.120 CEO of a private company and applied it to a 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:37.080 federal government situation, those are two very different arenas for 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:38.840 him to be doing this, and so I think that 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.560 is adding to a lot of the confusion and will 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:45.000 add eventually to the inevitable legal situation that arises from this. 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.400 All right, So we'll be following this closely, Kurt, and 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:50.480 we want to come back to you very soon to 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.199 check in on all the other developments that are happening 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.480 in the world of X. We've seen controversies around community notes, 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:01.280 there's some weirdness around rock and I think we'll have 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.000 to get to that all at another time, but for now, 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:05.280 thank you for coming in. 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:07.520 We'll talk soon, but I still want you by the 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:07.880 end of. 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:11.240 The day, Kurt to put together that list, So please 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:13.080 get to work or ask Rock to do it for you. 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:17.040 Yeah, easy, easy. You can expect my resignation very shortly. 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:17.320 Max. 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:19.760 Thank you all right, Kurt Wagner, thanks for coming. 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:24.280 Thanks guys. 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.400 So Doge, we've been talking about Doge. 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.760 It has been operating as much as you can say 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.160 it's operating anyway. For the past month, We've had a 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.560 lot of things happen and we wanted with this next segment, 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.800 which is from the live taping we did last week 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.720 at the on Air Festival in Brooklyn, to kind of 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:47.320 take a step back, give people sort of a recap. 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.360 On what's happened and a primer. 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:53.360 And again we brought in McKenna Kelly, who is a 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.640 reporter from Wired has been doing a ton of reporting 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.960 talking to federal workers it seems every day, to kind 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.320 of help us do that. A couple of notes on 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:06.080 this taping we were recording just as it was revealed 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.560 that Elon Musk would be speaking at Seapack and that 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:13.560 he had fathered another child, So you'll hear those come up. 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:15.320 Although there have been a couple of beats to the 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.840 story that we will not hit. We will not hit 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:23.440 Musk's kind of surreal appearance at Seapack. He looked, I 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.480 don't know how to say this. He was more detached 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.040 from reality than usual, wielding a chainsaw. 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:30.920 We also did not get at. 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:34.680 The paternity dispute that has since unfolded. I have no 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.040 doubt we will get on to both of those topics 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:39.760 on a later episode, but the conversation as a whole 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:42.400 was really great and we thought you'd want to hear it. 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:47.120 Welcome Dylan Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. I'm 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.680 your host, David Papatoppols, and we are live on AirFest 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:54.280 in Brooklyn. I'm joined on stage by two stalwarts of 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.760 the podcast. We have our number one muscologist at Bloomberg, 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:03.880 Dana Hull. Daniel Welcome, he did. And we have Business 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.320 Week writer Max Chafkin, Maxilo. 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:06.960 Hello. 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:08.880 And we have a special guest with this as well, 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:10.880 from Wired, McKenna. Kelly. 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:11.560 Good to be here. 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:13.320 McKenna, thanks for joining us. 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:14.680 Don't forget the crowd, David. 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:16.200 There's a lot of people in your crowd, right, and 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:21.440 we also have an enormous crowd here. Now it's standards 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.920 thank you for having good Are you guys ready ready? Okay, 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:28.320 So we are indeed gonna spend plenty of time talking 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.840 doze here under a relentlessly pressing and driving Elon Musk. 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.400 Doze has suddenly become perhaps the biggest story in the US, 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:40.200 and you will come away I swear from this session 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.760 as a doge expert. But we're gonna break the ice 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:47.440 a little with some non doze news, actual non doze news, 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:49.680 if there could be such a thing. So I'm gonna 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.400 go around here. I'm gonna ask each of you to 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.560 tell me the biggest non doge in the world of 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.160 Elon Musk, of course, the biggest non doge story you're 0:16:58.200 --> 0:16:59.280 tracking this week, Dana Hall. 0:16:59.400 --> 0:16:59.680 Okay. 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:01.400 So, so Elon has spent a lot of time in 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.080 the last twenty four hours tweeting about the astronauts that 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.640 are on the space station, and also that he thinks 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:10.040 the space station program in general should be ended two 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:12.040 or three years earlier than originally intended. 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.240 These astronauts in the space station are soon. 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.600 Where So these two NASA astronauts have been on the 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.440 space station since June. They went up there on. 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.240 A Boeing craft, and they want to come home. 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.280 No, they actually are very happy doing research. They are 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:29.720 going to come home on a SpaceX vehicle. 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:30.880 And Elon is. 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.800 Like they've been stranded up there because of politics, which 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.800 is not true, like NASA has said very clearly, like 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.000 they're not stranded. They're doing research. The whole point of 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.320 the ISS is like international cooperation. But Elon is fixated 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.680 on this idea that the astronauts are somehow stuck there. 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:47.480 Wasn't Boeing's supposed to take them home. 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:49.960 Boeing was supposed to take them home, and NASA made 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:53.000 the decision that it was safer not to send them 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.000 home on a fire. They didn't fire them, they just 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.480 made the decision let's keep them up here. We'll send 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:02.120 them home on a SpaceX craft. But now Musk is like, oh, 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:04.880 the reason why they're there is because of politics, which 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.160 is not true. Like if it was because of politics, 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:08.400 they could have come home earlier. 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.600 But they're atsuts happening though as soon as this week, 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.560 and he's taking bringing them back to Earth. He's not 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.080 taking them directly to Mars. 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.320 Correct, So SpaceX is going to bring the astronauts home 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.639 problem in March. That's the latest. But Separately, Musk is 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:25.040 also saying that the whole International Space Station program should 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.680 be ended earlier, and ultimately he just wants to focus 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:29.080 on Mars. 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.480 Okay, that's what you got there now, Max Chafkin. 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:33.520 So I wanted to pick a story that had nothing 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:37.240 to do with which truly and it's clearly baby number thirteen. 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.080 But wait a minute, he's that's political too because of 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:41.600 his whole like nadalism. 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:44.080 It's a conservative influencer. 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.560 You came here to talk about baby number thirteen. That's 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:48.199 what you're bringing. 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:49.760 I'm excited about it. 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.639 Baby number thirteen. Elon Musk is danna say, girl? 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:54.040 Do we know it's a boy? 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:55.119 Okay? Cool? 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:58.320 All right? So anyway, basically, keep a long story short. 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.520 He has been having all these babies, and we learned, 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:03.680 we learned of a new baby. And I say thirteen 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.159 as if it's a definitive number, and I guess I 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.600 feel compelled to add and Dana would do it if 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.080 I didn't that that's thirteen that we know of, right, 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:12.320 because he has said we. 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:14.520 Know the floor, we don't know what the sea is exactly. 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:16.879 Yeah, so but mckennath hinted at it. 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.560 But yeah, he's got this idea, and this is an 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:21.840 idea that now I'm drifting into politics, but that has 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:26.000 is taking off in kind of conservative intellectual circles that 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:28.960 everyone needs to have more babies. It's called natalism, and 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.119 Elon has kind of put a spin on that that 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:33.960 involves repopulating the planet personally. 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:35.960 I guess tell us who the mom is. 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:41.240 Yeah, well it's it's Ashley Sainclair, who is a columnist 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:44.240 or a media personality or whatever. For the Babylon Bee, 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:47.399 which was the This is going deep into like Elon lore, 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:51.119 but the Babylon Bee is like an Onion knockoff if 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.080 you don't know it, it's kind of like an anti 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:57.240 woke onion or something. And one theory for like why 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.840 Elon Musk bought Twitter for forty four billion dollars, laid 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.639 off all the employees, became a conservative media personality, put 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:05.920 three hundred million dollars in Donald Trump started taking apart 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:07.960 all the stuff that we're doing today is that he 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:11.320 was mad that Twitter banned the Babylon b So it 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:12.480 all kind of comes together. 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:14.600 Okay, baby number thirteen McKenna. 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:18.080 Yeah, I'm not moving away from the politics unfortunately, but 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.119 it does not don't relate it as much breaking news. 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:25.000 Musk is going to speak at Seapack tonight. Wow, And 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.760 it's wild to think about. Just like a year ago, 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:32.120 before the first assassination attempt on Trump, Musk was still 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:35.800 flip flopping right. He was this free speech warrior, bought Twitter, 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:38.160 so he's leaning in this kind of like right word direction, 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:42.479 this anti censorship brigade that he had. But now he 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.480 is just a full out. He's in a Republican white house, 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.000 he is running all of this stuff, and he has 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:50.720 made the full switch. And tonight he is one of 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:52.520 the figureheads speaking at spe Seapack. 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:56.359 Well, he truly is all in. I didn't know that. 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:58.679 So you are you breaking this as we speak? 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:00.119 Breaking it as we speak? 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:02.040 So who's sending the headlines on that? We got to 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:02.720 get that out there. 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.600 Okay, Seapack if you don't know, it's the Conservative Political 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:10.440 Action Committee And they're like very like Project twenty twenty 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:14.080 five adjacent, Heritage Foundation adjacent, like there's they do Seapack 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:14.960 and hungry Like. 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:16.919 Yeah, I mean this is where all the conservatives go 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:20.400 to talk policy, meet each other, mix every year. It's 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:21.879 like the conference for the whole party. 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:25.800 Okay, so we've got astronauts coming back from the moon. 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:28.399 Max thinks he's got a baby over there. He's tracking, 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:30.560 and we got must showing up at seapack. Okay, we're 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:33.440 going to move on to doge, and we're going to 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:35.800 go back as we think about dose. We're going to 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.520 go back to the very beginning when the whole doze 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:42.320 thing began. August of last year. Elon Musk is quote 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:46.640 unquote interviewing Donald Trump, and as he's interviewing him, he 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:50.480 raises the idea about, Hey, what about this doge thing? 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:54.119 I got this idea? What say you, mister President? And 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:55.679 let's listen to that audio clip. 0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:57.480 I think it'd be great to just have a government 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:01.400 efficiency commission that takes a look at these things and 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:05.560 and just ensures that the taxpayer money that the taxpayers 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:08.160 are harder money, is spent in a good way. 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.240 And I'd be happy to help out on such a commission. 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:12.919 I'd love it if when. 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.320 You you're the greatest cutter, I mean, I look at 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:20.160 what you do, you want to they go I won't 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:22.280 mention the name of the company, but they go on strike, 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:23.119 and you say that's. 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:24.080 Okay, You're all gone. 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:26.640 You're all gone, So every one of you is gone, 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:28.560 and you are the greatest. You would be very good, 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:29.680 Oh you would love it. 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:32.000 For a second, here in the audience, I want to 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.320 hear from you. Clap if you feel like you have 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:39.920 a good understanding of what doze is. Clap mak Okay, now, 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.120 clap if you feel like you really kind of don't 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:47.000 have a very good understanding at all. Okay, so that's 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:51.560 more who don't than do? Kenna? You are all doze 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:55.120 all the time right now? Wired, Tell these folks what 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:57.800 they need to know about dose? What is dog? Give 0:22:57.840 --> 0:22:59.399 me a letter by letter the D the O. 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:05.840 Tell you what is the most granular level? True? It 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:09.959 stands for the Department of Government Efficiency. It is in 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:14.080 fact based on the shiba Inu DOJ meme coin whatever, 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:19.320 a meme that Elon has used profusely over several several years. 0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:23.240 And first of all, it is a so called agency. 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:26.320 It is not an actual agent. Well, it's real in 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:29.160 some people's hearts and minds, but it is not an 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:30.400 actual Well. 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:33.000 What makes an actual agency an actual agency? What do 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:33.480 you need? 0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:37.720 An Act of Congress? An Act of Congress? And so instead, 0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:41.360 I mean, I think he did this incredibly creatively, being 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:45.040 able to subsume what was previously the United States Digital Service, 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:48.840 which already was doing. It was created by Obama in 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:52.639 the twenty tens to fix healthcare dot gov. If we remember, 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:56.159 healthcare dot gov when it first rolled out, was completely unstable. 0:23:56.440 --> 0:23:58.560 It was like one of the biggest talking points Republicans 0:23:58.560 --> 0:24:01.000 had against healthcare dot gov. So said, let's get a 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:04.080 bunch of technologists from the private sector, Let's bring them 0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:06.360 in put them on two to three year tours. Right, 0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:08.640 this is like a tour in government because they could 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:10.639 be making so much more money elsewhere in the private 0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:14.040 sector and brought them into government to make government more efficient. 0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:16.880 Like this is what it was doing like ten plus yearsage. 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:19.880 It was Doge before Doge, and so Doge has now 0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:24.040 subsumed USDs as of this week. I heard they have 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:28.280 their all you know standing staff meeting on Tuesdays. And 0:24:28.320 --> 0:24:30.240 from what I heard about that meeting is that now 0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:32.159 Dough has created a bit of a firewall between like 0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:34.760 legacy USDs and then like the new Doge folks. 0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:36.919 How many legacy people are still around? 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:40.159 There was originally two hundred and so one fifty of 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:44.080 them now after Friday's layoffs, and now we have how 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:48.080 many Doge people, which is not very clear. And they 0:24:48.080 --> 0:24:51.280 had the Doge folks that created essentially a firewall between 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:54.640 Legacy USDs and Doge. They were not interacting. They had 0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:57.680 one meeting with a Doge representative in the whole month 0:24:57.800 --> 0:24:59.879 that it's been around. And so this Tuesday and the 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:03.080 meeting that I'm talking about, these Doge folks, they had 0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:04.800 a meeting with these people and told them that it's 0:25:04.800 --> 0:25:07.680 all Doge going forward, Like the teams are merging. If 0:25:07.680 --> 0:25:09.880 you're still here, you have not been terminated. Yeah, these 0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:11.240 teams are together, We're going to do. 0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:12.280 You're going to be subsumed. 0:25:12.440 --> 0:25:15.480 Yeah. Yeah, And so it's official. Everything has become Dune. 0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:19.040 Did they all have to change their screen names to obscene? 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:21.760 Did they all require to be big balls or whatever? 0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:22.199 You know? 0:25:22.400 --> 0:25:24.879 I wish they could because now I'm thinking, wait, you 0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:27.399 can't just throw big balls in there like that without 0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:29.480 explaining Hold on one second, Max. 0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:34.199 Many of the Doge employees are people that Musk and 0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:37.199 his associates found basically like on the Internet. They're like 0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:39.800 edge lord types, like like Elon Musk and I guess 0:25:39.840 --> 0:25:42.920 the most famous one is this gentleman the big balls. 0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:48.080 So presumably not his god given no surprised. 0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:51.639 I mean, it is weirdly like a kind of bizarro 0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:56.240 version of that moment that you're describing back in the 0:25:56.280 --> 0:25:59.760 Obama years, where a bunch of tech guys were like, yeah, 0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:03.560 government doesn't work, we are the ones to fix it, 0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:05.879 and they descend it on Washington, and I mean, I 0:26:05.920 --> 0:26:08.480 don't know, you actually probably have a better understanding of 0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:11.040 how well it worked. I don't think the Healthcare dot 0:26:11.080 --> 0:26:14.639 gov thing, although they did seem to keep it online, 0:26:14.680 --> 0:26:16.240 but it wasn't like some kind of shine. 0:26:16.359 --> 0:26:18.400 I'm not sure that worked all that great. 0:26:18.400 --> 0:26:20.280 I don't know if we all remember that as like 0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:24.159 the greatest moment of Silicon Valley's performance in history. And 0:26:24.280 --> 0:26:27.600 it's kind of happening again, but with this new weird 0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:31.760 elon Musk's beIN on it well, where everyone's like super 0:26:32.359 --> 0:26:34.680 mad at the establishment and tweel Max. 0:26:34.720 --> 0:26:36.760 But if it's happening again, but it's I mean, I 0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:40.600 don't know that anybody realized that that service was even 0:26:40.600 --> 0:26:42.360 a thing back, you know, ten years ago. I don't 0:26:42.400 --> 0:26:45.760 think anybody in Western're in Washington, probably nobody noticed. Everybody 0:26:46.080 --> 0:26:48.560 has noticed OGE. It's certainly much more, much more high 0:26:48.560 --> 0:26:52.960 profile and making a lot more waves than its predecessor did. Okay, 0:26:52.960 --> 0:26:55.600 that's how the group was created. What is like the 0:26:55.640 --> 0:26:57.760 one thing they should know about it in terms of 0:26:57.800 --> 0:27:01.040 how DOSEE is going about its business on Elon Musk's 0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:02.200 guidance day in and day out. 0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:05.040 Well, now that they moved it outside of the opposite 0:27:05.080 --> 0:27:08.399 management and budget, this is all very boring bureaucratic stuff. 0:27:08.440 --> 0:27:11.080 Funny enough the fact that they hate bureaucracy, but they 0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:14.200 moved it underneath the executive opposite of the president, which 0:27:14.240 --> 0:27:16.960 means that they are reporting directly to the White House, 0:27:17.119 --> 0:27:18.679 which means like a lot of the records that they 0:27:18.720 --> 0:27:19.720 have are no longer for you. 0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:22.040 So by not being foiable, they're not the kind of 0:27:22.040 --> 0:27:24.639 thing that the press can say, hey, we would like 0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:26.600 to put in a request for greater information. 0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:29.280 Well, there's no transparency at all. Like the transparency is 0:27:29.320 --> 0:27:31.360 there is a website where it's. 0:27:31.160 --> 0:27:33.400 Like a live feed from X or doge website, a. 0:27:33.320 --> 0:27:35.600 Doge website where they're purporting to cut costs, but there's 0:27:35.640 --> 0:27:38.159 no transparency about like who DOGE is. So like an 0:27:38.280 --> 0:27:42.520 enormous amount of reporting firepower has been spent. Like who 0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:45.399 from Doge is showing up at your agency? Like, you know, 0:27:45.480 --> 0:27:48.159 have you seen their badges? Like are they like some 0:27:48.200 --> 0:27:50.120 of them are not even wearing badges, Like they're being 0:27:50.240 --> 0:27:53.679 very like circumspect about who they actually are, which flies 0:27:53.680 --> 0:27:55.320 in the face of this whole idea that this is 0:27:55.359 --> 0:27:56.560 a transparent effort. 0:27:57.000 --> 0:27:58.840 Yeah, the way that it's been put to me, when 0:27:58.880 --> 0:28:02.159 like these Doge folks show up, they are boys in 0:28:02.280 --> 0:28:04.600 jeans wearing backpacks full of laptops. 0:28:04.880 --> 0:28:07.960 Like this is how it's like they're literally that young. 0:28:08.080 --> 0:28:10.840 Yeah, like nineteen to twenty five is the ages of 0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:11.919 a lot of these folks. 0:28:11.640 --> 0:28:13.680 That they've hired, big balls. 0:28:13.760 --> 0:28:15.359 Yeah, he is one of the youngest, that's right. 0:28:15.400 --> 0:28:17.480 And then some of them are like venture capitalists who 0:28:17.520 --> 0:28:21.280 have like experience with private equity or like relative some 0:28:21.359 --> 0:28:23.840 of them are McKinsey consultants, Like there are like adult 0:28:23.880 --> 0:28:26.520 spit like in some cases. 0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:28.600 Helped cut Twitter, right, Like see Davis who is one 0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:30.760 of the big cots cutters when the Twitter takeover happened. 0:28:30.800 --> 0:28:33.800 Yeah, so now, Dana, you like to remind me frequently 0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:36.639 and you've drilled it into my head. How as we 0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:39.560 heard on that clip at the beginning. This idea of 0:28:39.600 --> 0:28:42.520 creating Doge to go out and gut the government and 0:28:42.560 --> 0:28:45.320 bring down spending is not a Donald Trump idea. It 0:28:45.400 --> 0:28:47.880 is an Elon Musk idea that he put in Trump's 0:28:47.920 --> 0:28:52.240 head and then he effectively appointed himself. Why is that 0:28:52.400 --> 0:28:56.360 for you such a crucial thing as we try to 0:28:56.480 --> 0:28:58.520 understand and conceptualize of what they're up to. 0:28:58.640 --> 0:28:59.160 Well, two things. 0:28:59.320 --> 0:29:01.239 I think that one thing to just know is just 0:29:01.280 --> 0:29:03.560 even the fact that we're all saying the name Doge 0:29:03.680 --> 0:29:06.880 is like Musk has already won because he's invented something 0:29:06.920 --> 0:29:09.680 that's not a department. He calls it a department, and 0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:12.400 now we're all using doge. It's entered the lexicon. So 0:29:12.440 --> 0:29:16.720 it's given is to give. It's been given this like gravitas. 0:29:16.760 --> 0:29:20.520 But for him, well, i mean, now the you know, no, 0:29:20.720 --> 0:29:22.520 but I mean, I'm just saying, it's like it's very 0:29:22.720 --> 0:29:25.800 clever how he got this, got this off the ground. 0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:28.960 But for for Musk, it's all about regulation. So Musk 0:29:29.000 --> 0:29:30.720 has said over and over again that like, you know, 0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:33.960 he feels like the giant being held down, like American 0:29:34.040 --> 0:29:37.040 promise is being held down by all these like strings 0:29:37.080 --> 0:29:39.360 of regulation. And bureaucracy and we just need to like 0:29:39.560 --> 0:29:41.840 cut the strings in America will be great again. And 0:29:42.400 --> 0:29:45.400 all of his companies are highly regulated, like you cannot 0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:48.240 launch a rocket without the FAA approval, the fish and 0:29:48.240 --> 0:29:50.480 wildlife has to sign off on, like how it's you know, 0:29:50.520 --> 0:29:54.000 messing up the wetlands. Tesla's autonomous or semi autonomous cars, 0:29:54.080 --> 0:29:57.320 like NITSA is investigating them. I mean every like he's 0:29:57.360 --> 0:30:00.440 got six companies, you know, the FDA in neural so 0:30:00.480 --> 0:30:03.080 he's very interested in what these agencies are doing. And 0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:05.680 if he can cut regulations, that is just going to 0:30:05.720 --> 0:30:06.840 help his businesses. 0:30:06.960 --> 0:30:10.120 Yeah, no, very much the case. I mean, I guess 0:30:10.120 --> 0:30:12.760 for sure he had just about all of his companies 0:30:12.800 --> 0:30:14.959 I would think, in one form or another are subject 0:30:15.000 --> 0:30:17.320 to government regulation in some cases, the case of Tesla 0:30:17.400 --> 0:30:19.280 and SpaceX quite a bit. I mean, I guess for me, 0:30:19.400 --> 0:30:21.240 the one thing that stands out to me a little 0:30:21.280 --> 0:30:25.320 bit is whether ultimately Musk's Doze group is the right 0:30:25.360 --> 0:30:27.000 group to be doing this and this is the right 0:30:27.040 --> 0:30:29.480 way to go about it or not. Obviously that is 0:30:29.520 --> 0:30:32.160 a question that's very very very much still out there. 0:30:32.440 --> 0:30:34.600 But the fact that it comes now and that there 0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:37.120 appears to be a certain amount of political will to 0:30:37.120 --> 0:30:40.160 tolerate it. That it comes in the wake of the 0:30:40.200 --> 0:30:43.000 greatest inflation surge in this country in a half century. 0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:45.120 I do not think is a coincidence. I think that's 0:30:45.120 --> 0:30:47.760 the way historians will look at it. I mean Musk 0:30:47.920 --> 0:30:51.840 in that interview back in August that when he states 0:30:51.880 --> 0:30:54.440 he does not talk about I want you to stop 0:30:54.480 --> 0:30:58.520 regulating my companies. He says, you know, runaway government spending 0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:01.479 is driving inflation, and that's attacks on the American people. 0:31:01.880 --> 0:31:05.640 And it's true, parties of both sides, Republicans and Democrats, 0:31:06.040 --> 0:31:09.240 have driven the US fiscal accounts to the point where 0:31:09.560 --> 0:31:15.200 we are running absolutely unprecedented budget deficits, and that seemed 0:31:15.240 --> 0:31:17.480 to be to a certain extent untenable. Again, the big 0:31:17.520 --> 0:31:21.240 issue is whether we all feel like the American people 0:31:21.240 --> 0:31:23.080 feel like it's the Doze Committee that should be going 0:31:23.080 --> 0:31:25.120 about bringing that under control. I mean, Max, I guess 0:31:25.120 --> 0:31:28.000 the question I'd have for you is whether you love 0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:33.360 Elon Musk or hate him. It is it's so seemingly 0:31:33.360 --> 0:31:36.000 improbable when we were doing this podcast as innocent young 0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:38.680 people a year or so ago, if somebody said to us, hey, 0:31:39.840 --> 0:31:41.880 in February of twenty twenty five. You're going to be 0:31:41.920 --> 0:31:43.760 talking about this and how Musk is running the show 0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:45.800 and he's the biggest story in the world. He's in 0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:47.480 the White House, he's doing all these things. We would 0:31:47.480 --> 0:31:50.560 have said it's absurd. It does speak to his force 0:31:50.600 --> 0:31:54.760 of nature. Demon mode kind of aspect of demon mode 0:31:54.800 --> 0:31:55.840 is what he himself calls it. 0:31:55.920 --> 0:31:58.200 Right, Yeah, I don't think I would have said it 0:31:58.240 --> 0:31:59.680 was absurd. I feel like part. 0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:01.520 Of you coming why don't you tell us? 0:32:02.400 --> 0:32:06.200 I mean, I just I think people who followed Elon Musk, 0:32:07.200 --> 0:32:10.000 although it is, I think there are aspects of this 0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:13.240 that are surprising. It's it's surprising that he is somebody 0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:16.720 who was ideologically McKenna brought this up earlier, you know, 0:32:16.880 --> 0:32:22.400 ideologically fairly centrist slash kind of like trying to be slippery. 0:32:23.000 --> 0:32:26.640 Is just like so full bore into maga Like that 0:32:26.800 --> 0:32:30.640 is surprising, But it's not surprising that he is trying 0:32:30.680 --> 0:32:34.080 to work it politically, like his entire career has been this. 0:32:34.480 --> 0:32:35.520 He's just doing this. 0:32:35.560 --> 0:32:37.240 But at such a different gale. 0:32:37.680 --> 0:32:40.120 The way he has made money throughout his career basically 0:32:40.520 --> 0:32:45.600 is by some combination of politics and technology, like. 0:32:45.600 --> 0:32:48.480 Working the levers of power. He did this with SpaceX. 0:32:48.520 --> 0:32:51.040 SpaceX was as much as Musk likes to talk about 0:32:51.080 --> 0:32:54.440 it as this thing that he created or whatever, like 0:32:54.480 --> 0:32:57.920 the federal government essentially paid him to create it, We 0:32:58.120 --> 0:33:00.959 taxpayers paid him to create it, and Tesla is kind 0:33:00.960 --> 0:33:03.400 of it's a similar story. I mean, obviously Tesla has 0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:07.280 done some amazing things. I'd say clearly it's Musk's greatest 0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:10.560 achievement of his career, maybe one of the great companies 0:33:10.600 --> 0:33:13.720 built over the last twenty years. But it's also one 0:33:13.720 --> 0:33:17.160 that was very much built on the back of federal 0:33:17.200 --> 0:33:17.760 policy and. 0:33:17.680 --> 0:33:18.560 Federal tax dollars. 0:33:18.600 --> 0:33:20.920 So, like, you know, he's doing that again. 0:33:21.000 --> 0:33:24.760 He's just he's just found this like really kind of 0:33:24.800 --> 0:33:27.640 amazing opportunity in terms of the moment that you described, 0:33:27.640 --> 0:33:31.800 the political moment, and maybe in Donald Trump, somebody who 0:33:31.880 --> 0:33:35.720 is perhaps uniquely open to these ideas, who's going to 0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:37.760 see the value of Elon Musk and he's going to 0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:42.280 be ideologically flexible enough to like divert his whole presidency. 0:33:42.320 --> 0:33:45.520 He's like diverted the whole Trump agenda into Elon Musk Land. 0:33:45.600 --> 0:33:47.880 Like that is that's kind of wild when you think 0:33:47.880 --> 0:33:48.240 about it. 0:33:48.320 --> 0:33:50.040 No, that's fair enough. But I just want to say 0:33:50.080 --> 0:33:51.880 that I know you two think I don't listen to 0:33:51.880 --> 0:33:53.640 you guys. I listen to you guys, and so I 0:33:53.680 --> 0:33:57.120 know you always indeed describe Musk in that he's got 0:33:57.160 --> 0:34:01.800 that chameleon quality as right as an operator. What you know, 0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:04.920 he was tight with Obama, he was tight with maybe 0:34:04.920 --> 0:34:07.520 Big Bush to a certain extent. Right, he was Mine 0:34:07.640 --> 0:34:09.600 was like, he's like, I'm super pumped to work five, right, 0:34:11.520 --> 0:34:14.160 and then with Trump won, he was there. But like 0:34:14.239 --> 0:34:17.920 I guess my question is, is this simply the chameleon 0:34:18.400 --> 0:34:21.279 changing his colors again, it's and going with the vibe 0:34:21.320 --> 0:34:25.520 in Washington, or it feels to me like he's become 0:34:25.640 --> 0:34:29.000 the vibe, he's setting the vibe. Is this a break? 0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:30.400 I think I think that Max and I have talked 0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:32.839 for years now about how like he really shifted during 0:34:32.880 --> 0:34:35.840 the pandemic, and you saw like he started being flirting 0:34:35.840 --> 0:34:39.080 with COVID denihalism, He moved to Texas, he became increasingly 0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:42.040 anti immigrant, the whole thing with his trans daughter, and 0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:44.400 this is just sort of the culmination of that. But 0:34:44.440 --> 0:34:46.040 the other thing at play here that I'm going to 0:34:46.120 --> 0:34:49.440 keep hammering on is he does not want NASA to 0:34:49.480 --> 0:34:51.400 go to the Moon. He just wants to go to Mars. 0:34:52.120 --> 0:34:54.640 Those two that are on the moon get him to Mars, right, 0:34:54.640 --> 0:34:55.600 Like why are they thing to come back? 0:34:55.640 --> 0:34:58.640 And if you watch the inauguration speech, Trump said We're 0:34:58.640 --> 0:35:00.839 going to plant the stars and pypes on Mars by 0:35:00.840 --> 0:35:01.680 the end of my first term. 0:35:01.680 --> 0:35:03.880 And Musk was like, yes, how awesome. 0:35:04.280 --> 0:35:06.840 This is all about Mars. 0:35:07.000 --> 0:35:09.359 This is all about Mars. And it's a quid pro quo, 0:35:09.480 --> 0:35:12.000 Like I gave you three hundred million dollars to get elected. 0:35:12.280 --> 0:35:13.160 What I want return? 0:35:13.200 --> 0:35:16.000 I want Doge and I want so much money, right, 0:35:16.000 --> 0:35:18.160 Like people are so focused on these like what could 0:35:18.239 --> 0:35:21.200 Musk get out of the CFTC maruld be? 0:35:21.239 --> 0:35:22.880 How much is it going to cost to get to Mars? 0:35:23.440 --> 0:35:26.280 I mean I haven't checked with my local Mars dealer lately, 0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:29.000 but like it's it's billions, if not tens of billions 0:35:29.040 --> 0:35:31.640 of dollars in contracts to SpaceX. 0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:32.719 That's what it would be worth. 0:35:37.800 --> 0:35:40.640 All right. Listen, speaking of big numbers, we got another 0:35:40.680 --> 0:35:43.920 clip that we're going to play on Doge cost cutting 0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:46.839 and what they're trying to do this is Elon and 0:35:46.920 --> 0:35:50.960 Trump in an interview with Sean Hannity earlier this week. 0:35:51.040 --> 0:35:51.520 Let's listen. 0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:55.480 How much do you believe Elon and you've identified and 0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:58.120 waste for aud of vi as corruption now, and how 0:35:58.160 --> 0:36:04.640 much do you anticipate you sure, well, I think no, 0:36:04.800 --> 0:36:06.440 because it's so massive. 0:36:07.040 --> 0:36:10.160 This is huge money. So which about. 0:36:11.680 --> 0:36:14.399 As hard as they are, they're not going to find 0:36:14.440 --> 0:36:17.480 some contract that was crooked, you know, crooked as hell. 0:36:17.880 --> 0:36:20.400 I mean, there's going to be so much, isn't faut? 0:36:20.480 --> 0:36:21.200 But what is that? 0:36:21.440 --> 0:36:24.279 I think he's going to find a trillion dollars, but 0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:27.520 I think it's a very small percentage compared to what 0:36:27.640 --> 0:36:27.920 it is. 0:36:28.680 --> 0:36:31.600 Okay, So the president says he's going to find a 0:36:31.640 --> 0:36:36.760 trillion dollars, presumably this is annually. I don't know, mckennath, 0:36:36.800 --> 0:36:40.279 what as far as your reporting shows and as far 0:36:40.280 --> 0:36:42.360 as with the Doze team is saying, how much have 0:36:42.480 --> 0:36:46.320 they cut so far from the US federal budget? 0:36:46.560 --> 0:36:49.520 If you look at the website, it says fifty five billion. 0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:51.120 Dollars five billion with the. 0:36:51.080 --> 0:36:53.720 B yes, okay, and that is not accurate. 0:36:55.560 --> 0:36:57.200 And we know that's not accurate. 0:36:57.320 --> 0:37:01.000 How because we can look at the itemized feed and 0:37:01.080 --> 0:37:04.840 see that numbers. There was a figure they don't add. 0:37:05.080 --> 0:37:08.080 What do so what in the itemized side, what does 0:37:08.120 --> 0:37:08.719 it add up to? 0:37:09.000 --> 0:37:12.080 Yeah, I think if I remember correctly, was like sixteen right, 0:37:12.200 --> 0:37:12.880 sixteen billion. 0:37:13.000 --> 0:37:15.640 But yeah, but even that's a little dice, Yeah, exactly, 0:37:15.840 --> 0:37:18.120 because like one of the there's an eight billion dollar 0:37:18.200 --> 0:37:20.319 contract in there, right, that's actually. 0:37:20.440 --> 0:37:23.760 Diversity, Equity and Inclusion contract for the DHS. That's actually 0:37:23.760 --> 0:37:25.960 worth eight million, right, Yeah, it's eight million. Eight billion, 0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:28.440 which is eight billion is like how much the CDC 0:37:28.520 --> 0:37:29.720 has to spend every year. 0:37:29.719 --> 0:37:33.000 Right, I mean, just so everyone's clear, the US federal 0:37:33.200 --> 0:37:38.759 annual budget is just shy of seven trillion dollars a year, right. 0:37:38.800 --> 0:37:41.680 When they throw around that trillion dollar number, it actually started. 0:37:41.719 --> 0:37:44.200 You guys were there at Madison Square Garden. You guys 0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:45.879 were there, and I think he threw out a two 0:37:45.960 --> 0:37:47.400 trillion dollar number. 0:37:47.200 --> 0:37:49.280 At least he said at least fairly. 0:37:49.320 --> 0:37:50.520 I think he said like fair. 0:37:50.480 --> 0:37:53.000 Easy, fairly easy, which is basically cutting. 0:37:52.719 --> 0:37:53.200 Like a third. 0:37:53.360 --> 0:37:54.880 Yeah, and that's obviously which you. 0:37:54.880 --> 0:37:57.239 Can't do unless you go after entitlement spending. So that's 0:37:57.239 --> 0:37:59.120 the other thing I want people to really think about. 0:37:59.160 --> 0:38:02.920 Like we were talking about Medicare, Social Security, the IRS, 0:38:03.239 --> 0:38:07.480 student loan program, like like, ultimately, McKenna, do you think 0:38:07.520 --> 0:38:10.600 that the goal is just to privatize wholesale pieces of this? 0:38:12.120 --> 0:38:14.640 Yeah, I mean, like I think that's a fair assumption 0:38:14.719 --> 0:38:14.960 to make. 0:38:15.040 --> 0:38:17.319 And every single privatize what like what would we be 0:38:17.640 --> 0:38:18.799 privately well, all kinds of. 0:38:18.800 --> 0:38:21.080 So we've been seeing the first thing that these doage 0:38:21.120 --> 0:38:23.640 kids do when they get in is they attack contracts. 0:38:23.920 --> 0:38:25.759 Either they send one person in or a group of 0:38:25.760 --> 0:38:29.000 people in and they get to the acquisition service like 0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:32.600 whatever system each agency uses, and then they look at 0:38:32.600 --> 0:38:35.239 that and then they just start cutting things across the board. 0:38:35.280 --> 0:38:38.640 They're like control effing for like diversity, even if it's 0:38:38.680 --> 0:38:39.640 like biodivers And. 0:38:39.640 --> 0:38:43.319 Do they have the power to unilaterally they have the 0:38:43.360 --> 0:38:47.319 power to unilaterally just pause it, stop it, block it. 0:38:47.760 --> 0:38:49.640 Do they have the authority to do that? I think 0:38:49.680 --> 0:38:52.399 that's a legal question. But they are doing it right now. 0:38:52.400 --> 0:38:56.800 How much pushback are we seeing increasing pushback from Congress 0:38:56.840 --> 0:38:58.560 and from the courts to say, hey. 0:39:00.719 --> 0:39:03.400 Congress is totally supine. I mean, let's be honest, Like 0:39:03.560 --> 0:39:06.960 you are starting to see some Democratic members of Congress 0:39:07.000 --> 0:39:09.000 like get out the bullhorn and be upset about it. 0:39:09.040 --> 0:39:12.319 But in general, like Trump and Musk have support for 0:39:12.360 --> 0:39:15.640 this from Republicans, and the Democratic opposition has not been 0:39:15.719 --> 0:39:18.560 that strong. I mean, so the courts are like trying. 0:39:18.680 --> 0:39:20.400 I mean, the courts are like the check out and 0:39:20.440 --> 0:39:23.200 balance that's left. But Doge is moving faster than the 0:39:23.239 --> 0:39:24.040 courts can move. 0:39:24.440 --> 0:39:24.640 Yeah. 0:39:24.719 --> 0:39:27.160 I also want to point out too, like to think 0:39:27.160 --> 0:39:29.080 about how serious this all is, but also at the 0:39:29.120 --> 0:39:32.440 same time how unseerious it is, like the name Doge 0:39:32.560 --> 0:39:34.680 right as the name of this agency. And then the 0:39:34.719 --> 0:39:38.160 Democratic response. The first Democratic response was Chuck Schumer and 0:39:38.200 --> 0:39:41.279 Hawking Jeffreys having this presser where they announced a new 0:39:41.360 --> 0:39:45.799 bill that they jokingly called Stop the Steal. And then 0:39:45.880 --> 0:39:48.759 at that at that press conference, Schumor had like a 0:39:48.760 --> 0:39:51.439 little laugh you went he he he, and everyone else 0:39:51.480 --> 0:39:53.319 in the press court and that presser said he he 0:39:53.320 --> 0:39:56.399 he too. So like it's it's very clear, like how 0:39:56.480 --> 0:39:58.360 unseerious people are acting about this. 0:39:58.440 --> 0:40:00.600 Well, I guess when you're opening Salvos name it dose 0:40:00.760 --> 0:40:03.400 it's true. Okay. I want to move us on to 0:40:04.080 --> 0:40:07.719 the Musk Trump relationship, which appears by all accounts to 0:40:07.760 --> 0:40:11.000 still be going strong. We also have audio from that 0:40:11.200 --> 0:40:14.960 from that Trump Musk interview with Hannity earlier this week. 0:40:15.040 --> 0:40:17.799 Let's listen. Elon called me. 0:40:17.840 --> 0:40:19.760 He said, you know they're trying to drive us apart. 0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:23.279 I said absolutely. Now they said we have breaking as 0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:27.520 Donald Trump has seated control of the presidency to Elon Musk. 0:40:28.040 --> 0:40:32.640 President Musk will be attending a cabinet reading eight. And 0:40:32.760 --> 0:40:35.920 I say, it's just so obvious. It's so bad at it. 0:40:35.960 --> 0:40:37.640 I used to think they were good at it. They're 0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:38.560 actually bad at it. 0:40:39.080 --> 0:40:42.839 Okay, So there is actually another line in there, the 0:40:42.960 --> 0:40:45.320 very very beginning of the interview, almost right out of 0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:50.200 the gate Max, where Musk turns to Hannity and he says, 0:40:50.320 --> 0:40:55.040 is basically his opening statement is well, I love the president. 0:40:55.600 --> 0:41:01.120 I just want to be clear about that. And I 0:41:01.120 --> 0:41:02.880 I was sort of it was pretty shocking for me. 0:41:02.960 --> 0:41:05.400 The fealty, Like it's not the kind of posture and 0:41:05.440 --> 0:41:07.480 body language you usually get from Elon Musk. 0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:10.760 Uh No, uh, it's it's kind of that. 0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:13.040 That has been another surprise here, I guess is the 0:41:13.120 --> 0:41:15.000 is the relationship. I mean that clip to me is 0:41:15.280 --> 0:41:17.440 that's what they wanted out of the interview. They wanted 0:41:17.800 --> 0:41:21.080 to signal that Trump is in charge and Musk is 0:41:21.120 --> 0:41:24.480 okay with that, and and I think what's honestly like 0:41:24.520 --> 0:41:26.880 a little bit surprising if you followed Musk is that 0:41:26.880 --> 0:41:29.600 that he is has been willing more or less to 0:41:29.960 --> 0:41:33.520 in certain situations. You know, play second fiddle, b do 0:41:33.640 --> 0:41:35.520 the thing that you have to do if you want 0:41:35.520 --> 0:41:38.080 to keep Trump happy, which is defer to him. 0:41:38.160 --> 0:41:39.439 So there, you know. 0:41:39.320 --> 0:41:41.760 He's sure that said tech support. 0:41:43.400 --> 0:41:45.600 I mean, throughout his life, Musk has always been the 0:41:45.640 --> 0:41:48.680 alpha male. But like in Trump, he's almost got this 0:41:48.760 --> 0:41:51.799 like dad figure, right, because Trump broke the mold for 0:41:51.880 --> 0:41:54.440 what a politician could be, and then Elon followed that 0:41:54.520 --> 0:41:57.000 and broke the mold of what corporate ceo could be. 0:41:57.200 --> 0:41:59.439 And they play off each other. I mean, Elon also 0:41:59.480 --> 0:42:02.440 tweeted some thing like I love him more as much 0:42:02.480 --> 0:42:04.600 as a straight man can love another man, and like. 0:42:04.680 --> 0:42:07.040 I should go with thirteen children. So he you know, 0:42:07.080 --> 0:42:08.719 he's got a lot of people to love. 0:42:08.920 --> 0:42:12.600 Okay, So one year from now we're on this stage again, 0:42:13.600 --> 0:42:17.120 will the Trump Musk alliance remain intact? Just yes or no? 0:42:17.160 --> 0:42:19.200 I don't want you guys usually give me these caveats 0:42:19.200 --> 0:42:20.279 and bolsh yes or. 0:42:20.239 --> 0:42:24.200 No, yes, yeah, yeah, Okay, there we are. 0:42:24.320 --> 0:42:27.960 The audience, do you agree with this? Yes? Is audience 0:42:28.000 --> 0:42:30.560 hates your aunt there there's no chance in how Okay, 0:42:30.680 --> 0:42:34.360 we're now gonna play the game. Enough about this doze stuff. 0:42:34.920 --> 0:42:39.520 And we're here at on AirFest surrounded by podcast enthusiasts, 0:42:39.560 --> 0:42:42.279 so we're gonna end with this game. Elon also is 0:42:42.280 --> 0:42:45.400 a big podcast fan and he appears on them all 0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:49.000 the time. So we pulled some clips, okay from Elon 0:42:50.120 --> 0:42:52.920 podcasts in twenty twenty four, and we're gonna play the 0:42:52.920 --> 0:42:56.120 clip now. The clip is pretty brief, it's pretty tight, 0:42:56.920 --> 0:42:59.200 and it's short, and it's in what you guys have 0:42:59.280 --> 0:43:01.759 to do. I'm gonna go turn. You're gonna tell me 0:43:02.600 --> 0:43:05.360 what the hell he's talking about, what it's about, and you, 0:43:05.480 --> 0:43:07.279 Leach will give me a guess, and then we'll go. 0:43:07.360 --> 0:43:10.480 We have three of them, super confident here. Okay, all right, 0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:11.759 Number one, hit it. 0:43:12.280 --> 0:43:14.799 Like I said, it's it's not like it's not gonna 0:43:14.800 --> 0:43:17.759 happen like overnight, but it's twenty years from now. 0:43:18.120 --> 0:43:19.200 I have no idea. 0:43:19.400 --> 0:43:21.480 But all right, Dana, I have no idea. I think 0:43:21.520 --> 0:43:24.640 he's talking about Mars. Maybe building a civilization on Mars. 0:43:24.640 --> 0:43:31.040 Is gonna be a Mars max humanoid robots, humanoid robots McKenna. 0:43:31.760 --> 0:43:33.680 Xually everything app becoming Actually. 0:43:34.080 --> 0:43:38.920 Okay, who's with Dana mars in twenty years? Yeah, it's here. 0:43:38.960 --> 0:43:45.360 Let's let's hear noose. Okay, the humanoid robot? What were you? X? 0:43:45.440 --> 0:43:45.960 The everything out? 0:43:46.120 --> 0:43:48.160 It's finally the everything appen, the everything. 0:43:47.800 --> 0:43:51.160 App in twenty years. 0:43:51.160 --> 0:43:52.800 Okay, the good ones were taken first. 0:43:53.000 --> 0:43:54.440 Okay, let's hear it twenty years from now. 0:43:54.440 --> 0:43:56.360 I think there's gonna be more more humanoid robots than 0:43:56.400 --> 0:43:57.000 they are here. 0:43:59.320 --> 0:43:59.919 What I got. 0:44:00.760 --> 0:44:03.040 Honestly, I'm shocked because I feel like in his head, 0:44:03.160 --> 0:44:04.160 twenty years is way? 0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:06.840 Do you get the other two right? As well? We 0:44:06.960 --> 0:44:09.520 know the fix is in? Okay, number two? 0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:12.920 Like He'll be like a good test if if you 0:44:13.480 --> 0:44:15.560 took a plane from Ellie to New York and you 0:44:15.640 --> 0:44:18.440 try to drop a bowling ball and hit somebody, your 0:44:18.520 --> 0:44:20.400 chances of success are basically zero. 0:44:20.520 --> 0:44:22.399 By the way, I happen to know that's the case. 0:44:22.440 --> 0:44:25.319 I've tried that. It's really hard. 0:44:25.440 --> 0:44:27.520 So success is hitting a person, I guess. 0:44:28.360 --> 0:44:31.279 Okay, so what is he talking about? It's really really 0:44:31.320 --> 0:44:33.160 hard to hit someone in the head with the bowling 0:44:33.160 --> 0:44:35.080 ball if you drop it from a plane. 0:44:35.200 --> 0:44:39.520 Is he talking about Starship eventually being city City? 0:44:39.680 --> 0:44:45.560 I think, so you go Starship Starship FAA regulations around 0:44:45.800 --> 0:44:48.880 dropping things from airplanes or parts falling or whatever, or 0:44:48.880 --> 0:44:49.840 his rocket breaking, I. 0:44:49.840 --> 0:44:51.759 Think I think you have an opportunity. 0:44:52.040 --> 0:44:56.239 Was it when the rocket recently fell apart? And that 0:44:56.320 --> 0:44:58.200 was like the likelihood of one of the pieces over 0:44:58.239 --> 0:44:59.680 that island hitting someone who. 0:44:59.640 --> 0:45:03.680 Likes to in his answer, nobody, crickets. 0:45:03.160 --> 0:45:07.759 Max, you're the same. 0:45:08.000 --> 0:45:08.960 They're all the same answer. 0:45:09.400 --> 0:45:12.200 The truth of the matter is you're all wrong. Hit 0:45:12.239 --> 0:45:13.480 it now. 0:45:13.520 --> 0:45:17.160 The reality is Earth can actually kindle a human population 0:45:17.520 --> 0:45:19.760 probably ten times longer than the current population. 0:45:21.600 --> 0:45:24.480 You know, because you know you've got too many humans 0:45:24.640 --> 0:45:26.560 when you drop the bowling ball from the plane and 0:45:26.600 --> 0:45:30.360 you hit right, but until then, just keep going. 0:45:31.480 --> 0:45:32.279 Should have gotten that long. 0:45:33.800 --> 0:45:35.520 You did an entire story of you know. 0:45:35.520 --> 0:45:38.600 Because he has talked about and that was f a A. 0:45:38.760 --> 0:45:41.520 But yeah, this is about we should all have more children. 0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:42.920 I guess you did a big piece on this. I'm 0:45:42.920 --> 0:45:45.840 disappointed that. Okay, number three. 0:45:46.800 --> 0:45:51.120 I speak with some authority and analogy in this area. 0:45:51.200 --> 0:45:51.440 This is. 0:45:53.960 --> 0:45:57.680 This is impossible. This is our producer Magnus is trolling you, guys, 0:45:57.760 --> 0:46:00.480 this is impossible. If any of you get this, I 0:46:00.520 --> 0:46:02.600 will take from Mike Bloomberg a check for ten thousand 0:46:02.600 --> 0:46:04.760 dollars and I'll handle to you. Okay, again, the quote 0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:08.919 is I speak with some authority and knowledge, and there's 0:46:08.960 --> 0:46:12.960 no chance you're gonna get this. Kenny, it's it's pretty obscure. 0:46:13.080 --> 0:46:14.520 So think the think obscure. 0:46:14.600 --> 0:46:20.919 The video game Diabolo Force just a good guess parenting. 0:46:22.880 --> 0:46:29.080 So that's a These are funny guesses? Is anybody Dana's answer, Well, 0:46:29.160 --> 0:46:33.640 you have a guess? I think it's sections sections. Why 0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:38.200 do you think that? I think? Okay, cesarean section? So 0:46:38.480 --> 0:46:47.120 who likes no? Maxis got this audience stuff. Mechanic's should 0:46:47.719 --> 0:46:51.960 in the front, our random in the front with the 0:46:52.000 --> 0:46:56.520 with the black hat. Anybody like that Cesarian section? Okay, 0:46:56.640 --> 0:46:57.400 let's play the clip. 0:46:58.160 --> 0:47:01.840 There's absolutely no need to do anything to farming change, 0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:07.760 no effect on the environment. It's it's totally fine. Stop 0:47:07.840 --> 0:47:08.760 attacking the farmers. 0:47:09.680 --> 0:47:13.239 Cows about how does he know? What does he know 0:47:13.280 --> 0:47:13.840 about farm? 0:47:14.360 --> 0:47:16.640 Well, Kimball, you know, it's like a big foodie. 0:47:16.640 --> 0:47:17.000 I don't know. 0:47:17.080 --> 0:47:20.560 He wears the cowboy. There's some authority there from Kimball. 0:47:20.719 --> 0:47:21.920 But wait, what's the full quote? 0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:24.040 Don't have to worry about the cows because why he's. 0:47:24.680 --> 0:47:25.960 Talking about climate change? 0:47:26.000 --> 0:47:27.120 This was the member. 0:47:27.320 --> 0:47:30.479 Yeah, he's saying, you know, don't like climate change, don't 0:47:30.520 --> 0:47:31.400 worry about don't. 0:47:31.200 --> 0:47:31.799 Worry about the. 0:47:34.680 --> 0:47:36.520 Possible We're getting the signal that we have to wrap. 0:47:37.520 --> 0:47:40.320 We're getting We're getting the gong on the Gong Show. Okay, 0:47:40.880 --> 0:47:44.440 so we shall end it there. A big thanks to Dana, 0:47:44.760 --> 0:47:52.920 Max McKenna, and thank you all for joining us for 0:47:53.000 --> 0:47:55.640 this special episode of el in at on Air Fest. 0:47:55.719 --> 0:48:06.880 Keep tuning in. We'll see you next week Humanoid Robots. 0:48:11.640 --> 0:48:14.880 This episode was produced by Stacey Wong. Anna Masarakis is 0:48:14.880 --> 0:48:18.120 our editor, and Rayhan Harmanci is our senior editor. Blake 0:48:18.160 --> 0:48:22.200 Maples handles engineering, and Dave Purcell factchecks. Our supervising producer 0:48:22.239 --> 0:48:25.720 is Magnus Henrickson. The Eloning theme is written and performed 0:48:25.719 --> 0:48:29.560 by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Saguiera. Brendan Francis Newdham is 0:48:29.600 --> 0:48:31.920 our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is the head of 0:48:31.920 --> 0:48:35.319 Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks to Joel Weber and Bradstone. 0:48:35.800 --> 0:48:38.040 I'm Max Schaffkin. If you have a minute, rate and 0:48:38.080 --> 0:48:40.560 review our show, it'll help other listeners find us, and 0:48:40.640 --> 0:48:41.840 we will see you next week.