WEBVTT - The Latest on Natalee Holloway’s Unsolved Case with Nancy Grace 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.880 Just a quick refresher for our new listeners. If you 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:07.840 have just found us, Zone seven is not a place, 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:13.680 it's a way of life. You keep your most loyal, helpful, watchful, 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:18.160 supportive cheerleaders as close to you as you possibly can. 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:22.639 That's your Zone seven. I am lucky enough to work 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:26.600 with people that I not only respect, but I adore. 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:31.080 I am so passionate about cold cases, and I am 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.279 thrilled to have you with us part of what we 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:37.120 do in Zone seven, and the reason I wanted to 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:43.800 start this podcast is to include the public. Experts are great, 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:48.720 law enforcement is great, but the general public, the average Joe, 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:53.920 can solve a cold case, and often does. Your advocation, 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.520 your vocation may lead us down a path we didn't 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:01.320 even know existed. You may have an expertise that we 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:05.000 do not that can show us how to get this 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:10.200 case from cold to salt. Each week I will introduce 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:13.120 you to somebody from my Zone seven that has a 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:17.560 particular expertise that can maybe help formulate a theory. You 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:21.000 can take that theory and get us to the next level, 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:36.480 possibly prayerfully closed by a rest. Growing up, the Miss 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:40.399 America Paget was a big night in our house, we 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:44.000 would get our outfits ready. We would have questions prepared 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:47.200 for each other. I mean, what would you do about 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.600 the energy crisis? And what is your ideal first date? 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:53.000 And of course we would always answer the same thing, 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.200 I just want world peace, and then of course crack 0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:01.960 up laughing. Then my favorite part, we would entertain our 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:07.600 parents with our talent. That portion of the evening was always, 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:12.520 hands down the most hilarious thing you've ever seen. We 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:16.000 wouldn't just have a baton, we'd have a fire baton 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:21.600 while hula hooping reciting the Gettysburg address. We weren't playing. 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:26.519 We came to compete. Our sister Charlene was a beauty 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.640 queen and we would take turns holding her trophy and 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:36.840 wearing her crown while giving our acceptance speeches humbly of course. Well, 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:40.760 this particular evening in nineteen sixty nine, I guess the 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:44.400 talent portion wasn't really up to our standard, so we 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.840 started making fun of some of the contestants. We would 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:51.119 say things like, well, I guess she is Miss Texas 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.919 her hair looks like a tumbleweed. Is that singing by 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.520 Miss Nebraska? Or is that a cat caught a fan belt? 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.520 Or one of my favorites. Do they not have Mara's 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:04.359 in South Dakota because I know she did not look 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:06.679 at herself or she walked out in that get up. 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:11.040 Our dad was sitting behind us on the sofa reading 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.280 the newspaper. He never said a word as we were 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:18.480 slamming these beautiful and talented and smart women. But then 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:25.160 in that deep South Georgia accent, he said, and I quote, well, 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:29.200 there there, and y'all are here. And in that moment, 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.959 the five of us realized, hey, wait a second, we're 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.200 not in the Miss America pageant. We didn't even have 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.080 the guts to try out. And my sister's shivering as 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:43.000 though it was her idea, slowly said well, we probably 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.800 should cheer for Miss Georgia, being a hometown girl and all. 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:50.040 And then we started to brag on some of the 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:55.200 other contestants from other states, their talent, their clothes, their answers, 0:03:55.600 --> 0:04:00.160 and from then on, the five of Us championed other women. 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:05.680 Natalie Holloway was eighteen years old when she disappeared on 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:09.880 May thirtieth, two thousand and five, on her high school's 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:13.680 senior trip to Aruba. They called her mom to let 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:17.920 her know Natalie was missing and she had missed her flight, 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:23.720 and immediately Beth Holloway knew something was terribly wrong. Natalie 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:27.680 was dependable. She would never be late, much less for 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.320 something like a flight home. Natalie was last seen leaving 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.040 Carlos and Charlie's with a man by the name of 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:38.839 your Hand Van der Sloot and two friends, the Cowpo brothers. 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:41.800 Natalie got in a car with these three men and 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:46.840 was never seen alive again. She's never been found. There's 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:50.839 been no sightings anywhere in the world. She's got one 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:55.560 of the most recognizable missing person's posters ever, and her 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.560 remains have never been found. The Uruban government says there's 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:01.480 no eviden it's in the case to have a trial 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.200 since they don't have her remains, they don't have a 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:09.000 crime scene, they don't have anything that they believe they 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:11.919 can go to trial with now. The number one suspect 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.520 in this case was your Hand Vandersluut. He was the 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:19.240 last to see her alive. He has admitted that he 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:22.000 was in the car with her. He admitted as she 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:25.160 was going in and out of consciousness that he was 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:29.400 touching her in a sexual way under her underwear. He 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.800 stated they were on the beach. At one point, he 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.960 says she was having some type of convulsions. He says 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:38.240 they drove her back to the holiday inn where she 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.960 was staying and dropped her off. He didn't know what 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.880 happened to her, and he remained the number one suspect. 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.360 He was arrested a few times, but he was always 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:50.520 released that On March the twenty ninth of twenty ten, 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:56.599 Vandersloot contacts Beth Holloway's attorney, John Kelly, and he says, 0:05:56.640 --> 0:06:00.159 for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, I'll tell her 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.760 mother where her body is. But what she's got to 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.880 do immediately is send me some good faith money. So 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:09.279 Beth Holloway makes two payments, one of ten thousand dollars 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.400 and one of fifteen thousand dollars, for a total of 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:17.520 twenty five thousand dollars. Then Vanderslout takes mister Kelly to 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:23.359 a location that he knew was bogus. Then, on May thirtieth, 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:27.800 five years to the day after Natalie Holloway went missing 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:32.240 Your Hand, vander Slut goes into a hotel room with 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:36.919 a young woman, Stephanie Flores. He murders her in that 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:42.440 hotel room. Since twenty ten, he's been indicted on fraud 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:46.920 charges in illegal wire transfers for con and Beth Holloway 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:51.080 out of twenty five thousand dollars. Whenever I am asked, well, 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.520 who do you think killed Natalie Holloway, I don't hesitate. 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.800 I don't think there's anybody in the world that doesn't 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:03.560 have the opinion that Joran Vanderslut killed her on that 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:07.560 beach and then disposed of her body. This is a 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:13.440 classic example of a case that is not necessarily unsolved, 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:18.120 but unproven, and in the world of investigating cold cases, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.240 these can be some of the most difficult because again, 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.240 we don't have a crime scene, we don't have remains, 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.680 we don't have DNA, we don't have clothing, we don't 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:32.200 have eyewitnesses. Well, we don't have an eyewitness that'll talk. 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.400 There's two and they have remained free the whole time. 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:42.200 My guest tonight is the Queen of true crime. She's 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:47.600 a feigned prosecutor, a TV personality that had a groundbreaking style. 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.760 She was like no other we had ever seen. She's 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.160 an award winning author, she's a daughter, she's a sister. 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:59.120 She's a mother, she's a wife, she's a friend, a 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:05.200 loyal friend, and she has dedicated her entire adult life 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:09.600 to the pursuit of justice and advocating for victims of crime. 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:16.520 Y'all please welcome someone who has helped shape my Zone seven, 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.760 the one and only Nancy Grace. 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.080 Oh my stars, that was a lot. That was a mouthful. 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:25.280 I did not need all that, but I would like 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:30.440 to tell my own story. Every Oh gosh, it had 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:34.080 to be Miss Universe and Miss America. My sister Ginny 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:38.680 and I would spend the night with my grandmother, Mama Lucy, 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.080 who my daughter is named after her because she helped 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:46.120 raise me, and we would watch We would not leave 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:50.640 the TV. You know, we only got two channels and 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.640 one was with Sheveryl's Universe Kalals, and we would stay. 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:56.400 It was a big deal because we could stay late 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.520 and watch Miss I didn't recall ever mocking. I was 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:01.640 just so in awe. 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:03.439 Well that's how we started. 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:05.240 Yeah, right, you big bloy. 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:10.280 But you know occasionally, you know, they maybe didn't meet 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.880 our standard at the time, which is so silly. 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:15.439 When you were in the fifth grade, you had a standard. 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.000 Girl, I was only five years old when this happened. 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.040 But you know, if my sister said it and they 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:23.360 believed it, I did too. You know. I can remember 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:26.360 when they went to Valdosta State in the early seventies 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:29.080 and there was a big protest. They were all talking 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.560 about these girls were going to burn their bras, and 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.439 I was all about it. Let's head down to Valdosta. 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:36.559 And my dad looks at me and he's like, you 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.959 don't even wear a bra. You're four. Go sit down. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:44.120 We'll call you when we need you. You know. But 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.720 you know again, if my sisters were you know, into 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:49.520 it and down for it, I was in the truck 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:50.320 waiting on them. 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.720 Well, speaking of sisters, how is your sister? 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:58.080 Listen? She is fighting every day, she is healing. She 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.760 is one of the most incredible people because she is 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:04.559 so action oriented. She's a lot like you. There's always something, 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:06.880 the dog, the kids, the house, the show, you know, 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:07.959 whatever she's got going. 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.000 First of all, it's not a show. It's not like 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.600 a Corse and pony, dog and pony show at the 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:18.520 circle at the circus. These are real people that are 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:26.160 going through real problems that are seemingly insurmountable. And there's 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:30.240 not a lot we can do for them, But I 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:34.400 know that pain and to know that someone is on 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.719 your side and is at least trying. That's what I 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.920 always tell my husband David, God bless his soul, Lord, 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:43.959 he is a saint. I say, you know what, when 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.719 I ask you to help me do something, neither one 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:49.680 of us may succeed. It may be something like help 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:51.640 me find my phone, or guess what I have a 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.640 flat tire or whatever then, or guess what the guinea 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:56.200 pig has got loose in the art. I'm afraid the 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:58.599 dog is going to eat them. It could be anything. 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.320 We may not succeed, but it feels good and when 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:10.200 somebody's helping you or at least trying to amen. So 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:14.160 what trime do you want to talk about? Hit me? 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.120 I want to talk about your hand, Vandersloop. 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.880 Well you quit say your hand. First of all, You've 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:23.360 got two choices, yorn or urine as many people call 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:27.680 you know, and I merely armber when people say urine. 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:29.640 People come up to me on the street and go, 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:36.800 what about that urine? I'm like, Uh, what you're in too? Witch? Urine? 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:38.680 Are you referring that worries for me? 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.280 Vandersloo. Everybody knows your Vandersloop. 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:44.839 You and I have been on this thing since two 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:45.640 thousand and five. 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.480 Do you want to hear a story about that. I 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.960 remember I had a book coming out, and it was 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.760 my very first book. I love it The Victim. I 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:59.120 was at a children in New York and I almost 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:04.079 canceled on my own book party that CNN was throwing 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.240 for me out of the kindness of their heart, because 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:08.960 I thought Natalie might be found that night. 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:11.600 Oh, because that had just happened. 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.360 I'm like, guys, I don't think this is a good 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:16.640 idea for all the whole staff to go over to 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.280 a book party. We need to stay right here because 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.920 I've got a ceiling. Something's gonna happen. Boy, was I wrong. 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:25.520 And you know, we've worked it at a level that 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.880 we have befriended Beth. I mean, she's not just somebody 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.480 that we have read about or have interviewed once or twice. 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:33.560 We really do care about her. 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.840 Yeah, you know, I feel guilty about inviting her on 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:42.480 to crime stories because I actually hate it when anyone 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.240 brings up the murder of my fiance. I don't like 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:47.840 it if I bring it up that means I guess. 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.360 I mean, I'm certainly no shrink that I'm prepared to 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:52.640 talk about it and it's not gonna like totally throw 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.280 me off. But I can be having a perfectly great 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:59.080 day and someone brings that up and it's like somebody 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.240 throws cold water on me, and then you know, you 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:06.319 know how I am Cheryl. I will get into thinking 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.440 about it what happened to him and what did he 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.200 feel and what could have been and all that, and 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.520 it's easy, so easy to slip into that. You really 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:15.400 have to fight it. 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:16.480 Oh absolutely. 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.400 I very often don't even ask her because I love 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.800 her and we got so close, the three of us 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:28.280 and her friend Ginger when we were in Aruba. I 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:30.800 hate to she's having a good day. I don't want 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.760 to drag her down by making her talk about it. 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.400 Well. I did text her when the news broke, and 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.960 then I called her and she just said, you know, 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:40.680 I love you and Nancy, and I said, well, do 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:44.960 you need anything because I'm coming to Birmingham. I want 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.160 to see this fool in person. 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.000 We're totally camping out right on and we have to 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:55.440 get one of those cheap hotels that gives you breakfast 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:59.840 and free Wi Fi. Nothing makes me more angry than 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.719 or on a leg at some fancy restaurant, I mean 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.000 fancy hotel, and then I have to pay for wife's 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:06.719 I like fifteen ninety nine a day. 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:10.360 Really yep, well let's go back. I know everybody knows 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:13.480 that Natalie disappeared May thirtieth, two thousand and five, on 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.360 a senior trip to Aruba. She was last seen at 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.440 Carlos and Charlie's. I mean, she's last seen getting in 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:23.000 a car with vander Slout and the Capo brothers cal. 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.440 Po cow Po woman, cut her mic, please cut my mind. 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:28.680 Nobody's ever done that. I feel left out. 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.920 Can't be coming on my show and correcting me the 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:36.160 cow Poe. You're right, and they're horrible. They're all horrible. 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.200 I mean, vander Slute has confessed what four times. 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:43.040 They're like three guels from hells mm hmmm, and they're 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.840 sticking together to cover their rear ends. 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.680 And do you know Bess said something when this case 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:53.840 broke a day or ago that Natalie she had eighteen 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:58.000 years with her and she has lived eighteen years without her. 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:02.840 Cheryl, Please te don't make me now walking think about us, 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.760 my little Lucy and John David. I know, you know 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.120 when they get out of the car, and yes, I 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:10.120 still take them to school. When they get out of 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.800 the car, I watched them until they go in the 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.320 building because I'm so I don't know what I am, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:21.960 so I'm ingrained with thinking something could very well happen 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:27.760 to them, just thinking of eighteen years without them. Oh 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.960 that makes my stomach urch physically hurts. Why did you 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.520 say that to me? It was just so compelling. And 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.960 when we went to Aruba with her, she said several 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.880 things that I thought, you know, as a mama, you 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:44.200 can hardly hear it without physically reacting to it. And 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:48.040 when you asked us to go with you back to. 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.960 Aruba to search for her again, it was one of 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:55.280 the most important tremps I've ever taken. And there was 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.520 a period of time where me and you and Beth 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.080 went toward the chapel where she had gone. 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:06.040 Oh, my stars, it's just what I was talking about yesterday. 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:11.200 I was just talking about that with someone who wasn't 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.520 It was either on a fox or it was on 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:20.000 inside of it was somewhere, Oh, Cheryl, it was when 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:27.920 you are you I best were going. We got to 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:33.080 that a hill, although it was kind of steep, and 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:39.880 she was describing how she was so distraught. She demanded 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:42.280 the cab just let her out. Let get I gotta 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:43.440 get out of the car. I can't see the car. 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.920 She got out of the cab because she saw a 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.720 cross on the side of the road, and she threw 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:57.760 herself down, screaming and crying. Where is Natalie? Where is Natalie? 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:01.880 Just beating, beating the ground. She had been trying to 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.520 find outlets she had flown there, and the police weren't 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.000 helping her. Nobody was helping her. There's no ninety one 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:12.000 one system in place. It was just a crap show. 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:16.040 And she looks up. She sees another cross. She goes 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:19.520 to that cross, and she's like, kind of like an animal. 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:21.919 She's not even thinking like a human. She's just in 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:26.440 so much pain. And she sees another cross. She ends 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:31.160 up going to eighteen crosses. As I recall, up this hill, 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.840 climbing this hill. By now she's covered in dirt from 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:40.239 kneeling and praying and beating the ground. She gets to 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.600 the top and there is a little chapel, and I 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.840 mean little like the size of your kitchen or my kitchen, 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:53.480 the whole chapel, and it's very decorated on the inside 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:57.840 with holy images. And she said when she got to 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:04.400 that chapel, she was overcome with a feeling that Natalie 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:09.560 was dead. Oh gosh, And you remember, Cyril. The three 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:14.160 of us sat on those outdoor pews around that little 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.600 bitty chapel on the top of that hill, and I 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:20.960 recall it something like Bella Vista or Buyna Vista. Beautiful 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.760 view because you could look out on other hills and 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:28.360 mountains and you could see the ocean, just a glimpse 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:32.520 of the ocean beyond, and there was such a feeling 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:36.840 of peace. And all three of us said that was 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:42.320 the only time in Aruba that there was peace, because 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:47.159 everywhere else felt like we were on snakes, just writhing 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:51.560 between It just felt horrible, except right. 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.160 There, even when we almost got arrested. 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:55.159 Oh lords. 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:57.200 And I'm going to tell you a lot of people 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:59.800 may not know this, but Nancy was my prosecutor back 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:02.280 in day when I was assigned to the Major Case Division, 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:04.879 and I've seen her do a lot of brave things. 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.359 I've seen her do a lot of really super cool things. 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.600 What I saw when Aruba was flat gangster. So let 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:13.840 me set at the stage. I had to busted up 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.280 ankle and I could hardly walk. So Nancy and Beth 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:19.199 go to the holiday Inn. They want to go on 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.160 the inside of it. They want to ask some hard 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:25.439 questions of these people. Well, I'm out front and I 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.159 see a police car pull up and there's three of 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:28.920 them in the car. 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:30.119 And they were big. 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:31.040 Oh they were huge. 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.560 I think they were on steroids, Cheryl. There's really no 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:34.320 doubt in my mind. 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.240 And I thought I better start walking back to the 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:38.880 car because Nancy. 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.320 Walks because suddenly your ankle starts hurting. 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:45.040 Oh my gosh. And I thought Nancy walks as quick 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.720 as she talks. I got to hit it because they're 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:49.960 going to leave me here if I don't make tracks. 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:52.879 So I start walking back to the car and a 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:56.160 police officer starts hollering at me, wait a minute, Wait 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.440 a minute, ma'am. Stop, And I was like, oh lord, 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:04.280 So I stopped. Nancy doesn't. She keeps right on walking 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:06.960 and Beth is following her. Well, finally they come back, 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:08.800 because I guess they figure they're not going to leave me, 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:14.840 and they start threatening Beth and Nancy with a rest Well, 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:16.719 I'm taking a picture of it because I'm like, I'm 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.679 gonna document this. Well. Then he comes to me and says, 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.080 you could go to jail for taking a picture of us, 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:24.760 and I'm like, what is going on? First of all, 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:28.400 Beth and Nancy ain't big as a minute. They don't 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.600 weigh one hundred and fifty pounds combined, and these guys 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:37.639 are huge. Nancy Grace was not intimidated at all. She 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:41.560 looks right at that one boy and she says, either no. 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.359 The first thing she said was, so, you're telling me 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.600 you can't find a way to arrest your hand vandersloot 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.159 in fifteen years, but you're going to arrest us in 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:53.560 fifteen minutes. I thought, oh lord, here we go. Maybe 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:55.719 she forgot we're in a foreign country. I don't know, 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:58.000 but I was like, I think we might be in 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:00.560 some trouble here. And then he keeps talking to you 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:04.320 and keeps giving you attitude, and you said, and I quote, 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:09.760 either arrest us or let us go. I'm leaving. And 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.399 you turned on your heels and you started walking, and 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:14.240 me and Beth looked at each other and we just 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:21.439 started following you. And then something extraordinary happened when we 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:23.600 got on the other side of the street at the sidewalk, 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:26.520 You remember all the businesses started closing their doors and 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.919 putting out closed sign I remember. I mean that was 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:31.360 like something out of a movie. 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:34.560 They were say us coming and turn the sign we 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:37.639 are closed, we're closed, can't help you. 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:42.800 And before that you had said, listen, nobody knows we're here, 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.160 nobody knows we're coming. Don't post anything on social media, 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:48.840 don't post a picture, don't say where you're going, don't 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:51.240 even say you're at the Atlanta airport prior to leaving. 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:54.920 I'm like, okay. We got in the car after that, 0:21:55.440 --> 0:22:00.680 just disgusting display, and you said, give me that picture. 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:04.360 So I sent you the picture. You posted it immediately 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:07.480 you said they already know we're here. I don't care. 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:10.440 We're going to, you know, continue what we came here 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:13.480 to do. We're going to continue to search. And everywhere 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:18.280 we went, the lighthouse, the Holiday Inn, the other side 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:20.760 of town, where we were saying, they followed us the 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:21.600 whole time. 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:24.840 I remember it like it was yesterday. And what I 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:29.040 kept thinking about during all that, especially when they were 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:33.360 threatening to arrest us, was if they're doing that to us, 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:38.399 what did they do regarding Natalie's mother, was she was 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:41.520 there and there was a chance to solve the case 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:47.720 Nallie's remains, her body could have been found and identified 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:50.639 unless it was thrown in the water, And if it 0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:53.399 had been thrown in the water, that was the time 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:56.320 to secure witnesses and possible DNA. 0:22:57.040 --> 0:22:57.240 You know. 0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:02.439 The other day on again, there so many outlets talking 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:06.960 about Natalie. I got a lot of heat online again 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:11.040 about why did you say Natalie was rape if they've 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:12.480 never found everybody? How do you know that? 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:13.440 Well? 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:23.080 I recall reading supplemental reports where your Vanderslute described Natalie's underwear. 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:28.119 I believe there were flowers on her underwear, a print embroadered, Yeah, 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:30.720 something like that. I mean, what do you think happened? 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:36.560 This girl was ruthied? Why do I say that? Because 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:41.719 that was his modus operandi, method of operations. And again, 0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:45.080 when you don't know a horse, look at his track records. 0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:48.640 That's what he did. Everybody knew it. The whole community 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:54.320 knew he would go to casinos and stall American girls 0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:58.000 to try to get money and or sex from them 0:23:58.240 --> 0:24:02.080 and ruthie them. Happened over and over and over and 0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:06.480 over and because he was a judge's son, he got 0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:08.560