1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: On this episode of the News World. In his new 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: book Behind Closed Doors in the Room with Reagan and Nixon, 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: Ken Kaschigion offers a compelling insider's account of his most 4 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: private moments with Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon during revolutionary 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: changes in our economy, politics, communications, foreign policy, and culture. 6 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: Behind Closed Doors is essential reading for anyone wanting to 7 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: know how Ronald Reagan shaped his crusading message of economic 8 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: growth through tax cuts and limited government. Here to discuss 9 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: his new book, I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, 10 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: Ken Katchigian. He was the chief speech writer and trusted 11 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: political advisor to Ronald Reagan and the go to council 12 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: for President Reagan and First Lady Nancy Reagan in campaigns 13 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 1: in a political crisis. He also served in Richard Nixon's 14 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: White House and with Nixon as he emerged from Watergate. Ken, 15 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: welcome and thank you for joining me on newts. 16 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 2: World speaker being Rich's good to be with you, new 17 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: old friend. 18 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: I was thinking earlier that we had really interacted over 19 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: and over again for gosh, it's on maybe forty years. 20 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: I guess right, How did you first get into politics? 21 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: Oh? My, you remember something called boy State, don't you Yes, 22 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 2: That's how I got started to got my mind going. 23 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 2: American legient sponsored something called Boyse State and got me 24 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 2: really interested in politics and high school and then college, 25 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: ran for office, and I met Nixon when he ran 26 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: for governor. I cornered him at one of his rallies 27 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: when I was in college, and then got his book 28 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: Six Crises. And that's when I met Reagan too. I 29 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 2: was student by the president at UCSB and introduced Reagan 30 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: when he came to campus. I cajoled him to come 31 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 2: and speak to campus. And then with my interest in 32 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: politics and my interest in Nixon, when I was at 33 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: Columbia University Law School and Nixon was starting to run 34 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: for president making his comeback. You remember well, back in 35 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty seven, Nixon was not seen as a viable 36 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 2: candidate for president. The big gunners back in sixty seven 37 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: were George Romney, Nelson, Rockfeller, and that rising star Ronald Reagan. 38 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 2: And Nixon was still seen as sort of a potential 39 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: has been. And I saw this article in the New 40 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 2: York Times that Nixon had a new group around him 41 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 2: fellas Pat Buchanan Ray Price, editorial writer out of New 42 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 2: York and Wright Chapin, a youngster out of California who 43 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 2: was helping him. And so Nixon was surrounding himself with 44 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: new people, and I thought, well, maybe this is an opportunity. 45 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: So I wrote a letter and said I'd like to volunteer, 46 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 2: and they brought me on just as a young fellow 47 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 2: out of Columbia law Pat Buchanan interviewed me and allowed 48 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: me to answer correspondence, and that led to Marty Anderson 49 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 2: offering me a job in the summer after my second 50 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: year of law school. In the campaign of eighty eight, 51 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: Alan Greenspan was my boss, if you can imagine, head 52 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 2: of the domestic policy group in the sixty eight campaign. 53 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: And after the campaign, one of my mentors in that 54 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 2: campaign was another giant in American politics, Bryce Harlowe. I 55 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 2: don't know if he ever got to meet Bryce. Bryce 56 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: was another giant. And once I finished law school, I 57 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 2: came back to Washington and finally got a job in 58 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: the Knicks and White House. So that's how it all started. 59 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: You get out of Columbia, ended up going to Washington. 60 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: Right and spent four and a half years in the 61 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 2: Nixon White House, and of course ended up with a 62 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 2: disappointment President Nixon's resignation, which I opposed. I was, I 63 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 2: think the loan holdout amongst all the staff right at 64 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: the final days of August fifty years ago as a 65 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 2: twenty nine year old, And I wrote about this as 66 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 2: an op ed a couple of weeks ago in the 67 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal, saying that I don't believe he should 68 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 2: have resigned, and he should have forced the hand of 69 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 2: our Republican friends in Congress and the Democrats to at 70 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: least take our case to the Congress and force a 71 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 2: trial in the Senate, and at least give us an 72 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: opportunity to mate for the President to stand his ground. 73 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 2: And of course knew if we knew then what we 74 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: know now of the canery and the unethical conduct of 75 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 2: Judge Sirika and the special prosecutors, and if we had 76 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 2: at least the modicum of support from a conservative press 77 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 2: that we might have had, then we could have made 78 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 2: our case and he could have continued as presidency. 79 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: Before we get to Watergate, he barely wins election in 80 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: sixty eight and then comes back and wins the largest 81 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: popular vote margin in modern times. What was it like 82 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: to work for Nixon, and to be in the Nixon 83 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: White House during that pre Watergate period, it wasn't. 84 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 2: Fun all the time. I mean, it was the high adventure. 85 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: Of course I was a young man, but we were 86 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 2: facing headwinds the entire time. If you have to look 87 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 2: at it. When he entered the presidency, he had three 88 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 2: massive headwinds. He had inherited the Vietnam War from not 89 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 2: just Lennon Johnson, but Jack Kennedy. We have to remember 90 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 2: that Jack Kennedy begin that adventure with the Eastern elite establishment, 91 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 2: defense and State departments, and then Linda Johnson escalated it. 92 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: So when Nixon came in, there were five hundred and 93 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 2: forty thousand troops in Vietnam, five hundred men being killed 94 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 2: every month, with thousands of additional casualties. So he had 95 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 2: that headwind going for him. And then with immediately national 96 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 2: protests going on, the Democrats who had supported Kennedy and 97 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 2: Johnson in this adventure began ducking and running and then 98 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 2: leaving mix and trying to de escalate and get away 99 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 2: from this. Then the other headwind was the fact that 100 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 2: you can imagine what the problem was. Having served in 101 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 2: Congress and a speaker, he had a Democratic House and 102 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 2: Democratic Senate opposing him the entire time of his presidency. 103 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 2: So with an adversary Congress in place, it was monumentally 104 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 2: difficult for him to pass any legislation. He had. Carl 105 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 2: Albert Speaker Mike Mansfield is a Democratic majority leader, and 106 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 2: there was a part of in Congress the entire time. 107 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: So to get Supreme Court appointments and the fact that 108 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: he got any legislation through was a miracle. The third 109 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 2: headwind he had, of course, was an adversarial press. There 110 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: were only three networks at the time, three newsweeklies and 111 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 2: basically two major dailies, The New York Times in the 112 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 2: Washington Post, all major negative media outlets. So can you 113 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: imagine entering the presidency with these massive headwinds against you 114 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: and still achieving what he achieved, balancing off the Soviet 115 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 2: Union against China, opening China, which was a rogue outlaws 116 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 2: state in nineteen sixty nine and nineteen seventy and seventy one, 117 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 2: having major achievements in legislative battles, desegregating the schools in 118 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: the South, getting Supreme Court appointments through despite opposition, and 119 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 2: eventually lowering like the eighteen year old vote making the 120 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 2: draft of voluntary and having getting welfare reform through, so 121 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 2: imagine new You can even lecture me on what it 122 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: would be like having a Congress being opposed to the 123 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: president the entire time. 124 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: In our case, I think we Frankly wanted to get 125 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: stuff done and so we were able to work with Clinton, 126 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: and he concluded that his re election required him to 127 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: work with us. So we're in a different environment, I think, 128 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: than you were. But I'm curious when you think back 129 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: to that and you think about how really close the 130 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: three way race was in nineteen sixty eight, and then 131 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: you get to seventy two. Did you think all year 132 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: that you would in fact be able to beat mcgoverned 133 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: by the size margin you guys did, or was that 134 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: sort of a surprise. 135 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 2: I'd say by mid October it became pretty clear that 136 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 2: McGovern was a hopeless candidate. We had so much going 137 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 2: for us and so much going against him. He was 138 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 2: such a hapless left winger, much like Frankly taking the 139 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 2: positions that Kamala Harris is taking today. He was handing 140 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 2: out money left and right. He was going to hand 141 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 2: out a thousand dollars, he said, he would call on 142 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 2: his knees to Hanoi to get peace, which was such 143 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 2: a stupid statement. He was basically a socialist before even 144 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,959 Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders was a socialist, and he was unapologetic about 145 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 2: his left winging positions. Even as Nixon was trying to 146 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 2: solve the Warren Vietnam, My government was taking the worst 147 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 2: of silly positions on the Warren Vietnam. And of course 148 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 2: mc government had, unfortunately for him, made a big mistake 149 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 2: in putting Eagleton on his ticket. Tom Eagleton on his ticket. Well, 150 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 2: Eagleton had some emotional mental problems that had to get 151 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 2: him off the ticket and be replaced with Sergeant Schreiber. 152 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: In fact, it turned out that it was widely known 153 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 2: that the Eagleton had these issues before Montgomery even put 154 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 2: them on the ticket. So I think by mid October, 155 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 2: those of us who were politically involved, and I was 156 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 2: deeply involved on the political side of the campaign, we 157 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: certainly knew it was going to be a massive landslide. 158 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: You come off of this huge victory, remarkable turnaround from 159 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight and nineteen sixty then, in fact, I 160 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: mean a bigger victory than Eisenhower won and he was 161 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 1: a great war hero. And then all of a sudden 162 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: it starts to fall apart. When did it begin to 163 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: be obvious that Watergate was going to be more than 164 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: just a passing nuisance. 165 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 2: Probably when Kennedy managed to get that Senate selet Committee 166 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: set up. Kennedy was set on getting Nixon and taking 167 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: him out, and the press once the inauguration had taken place, 168 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: they weren't going to let up. The stories were continuing 169 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 2: to leak out, and there was no let up, and 170 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 2: Kennedy knew that the only way to get momentum going 171 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 2: on this was for the Congress to take over and 172 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 2: use the subpoena powers to extract more and more information 173 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 2: that they couldn't get through just political reporting from the newspapers. 174 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: People forget it was. Kennedy introduced the resolution for the 175 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 2: Senate and they gave it a fancy named Senate Select 176 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 2: Committee on Presidential Campaigns. Then they renamed the Senate Jadier Committee. 177 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 2: But you know, they never investigated any other presidential campaign 178 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 2: other than Nixon. They didn't investigate McGovern's or Muskies or 179 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 2: anyone else's. So that's when the momentum started to turn 180 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 2: seriously I'd say in the winter and early spring of 181 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three. 182 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: And of course you also go through the crisis of 183 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: getting rid of Spiro Agnew and replacing a majority Ford. 184 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that happened in October of seventy three. And 185 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 2: of course the next step was when la Richardson decided 186 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 2: to appoint a special prosecutor, and stupidly he appoints not 187 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 2: just any normal special prosecutor, He appoints Archibald Cox, who 188 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: was the opposition research director for Jack Kennedy's campaign against 189 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 2: Richard Nixon in nineteen sixty. I mean, how much number 190 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 2: can you get? The odds were building up against this 191 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 2: early on, and then Cox, five of his top people 192 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 2: he brings in were some of the top people in 193 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 2: Bobby Kennedy's Justice Department. The deck was stacked against Nixon 194 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 2: to begin with, and so that's when it started really 195 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 2: getting troublesome and serious. And by the way, Nixon cooperated, 196 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 2: He cooperated with the prosecutors, he cooperated with the Senate 197 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 2: Watergate Committee. Nobody resisted going up to these committees at all. 198 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: What was it like in the White House after Nixon left? 199 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: And now you have Jerry Ford as the new president. 200 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: Well, for me, it was very troublesome. Maybe about ten 201 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 2: days after he resigned, I came out to Sant Clementi 202 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 2: to help the president out, who still had massive legal 203 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 2: problems and they were going after him so for back taxes. 204 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 2: They were subpoenaing him, they were trying to disbar him 205 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 2: in California and New York, and the press were still 206 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 2: after him, and the prosecutors still wanted to indict him. 207 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 2: But then when I returned, a lot of my colleagues 208 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 2: were still trying to cover their backsize and get jobs 209 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 2: with the White House. But Ford was scouring around. His 210 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 2: staff were scarring around for those who seem to have 211 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 2: cleaned the Nixon during the antime peachment battles. And I 212 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 2: had a prime target on my back since that was 213 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 2: one of those who fought the antime peachmot wars. So 214 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 2: it wasn't long before I returned from Sant Clementia that 215 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 2: my new boss came and gave me my walking papers 216 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: and said, look, I'm sorry, we're going to have to 217 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 2: let you go. But they did in a nice way. 218 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 2: I got another job and transition job before I came 219 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 2: out to Saint Commentia, to help President Nixon, then. 220 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: You end up in San Clemente. Nixon had to be 221 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: in enormous pain, he had to have been depressed, and 222 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: yet within a few years he starts to turn the 223 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: whole thing around. What was that like to be there 224 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: with him, coming from the largest popular victory to being 225 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: out of office in a two year period. 226 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 2: I try to tell people, and I described this in 227 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 2: the book. He was down in the sense that he 228 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 2: had lost everything that he had worked so hard for, 229 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: but mainly because he had to work his way back. 230 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 2: He was not depressed in the sense that you would 231 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 2: think he would be. In my first meetings with him, 232 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 2: I was probably more down than he was. I was 233 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 2: twenty nine years old. I thought my life was gone. 234 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 2: In our first meetings, he said, Ken, you can't look back. 235 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 2: We've got to look forward. You can't get down, and 236 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 2: we've got to move on. We've got to move forward. 237 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 2: We've got to move on. So he wanted to focus 238 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 2: on the future and not look back. He didn't relive Watergate. 239 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 2: He didn't try to relitigate the past. I won't say that. 240 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 2: He never talked about it. It bothered him that he 241 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 2: made some bad decisions along the way, that's not the question. 242 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: But the point is, and this is a real lesson 243 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 2: in life for anyone listening to this, is that Nixon 244 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 2: had a very forward looking attitude from the time he 245 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 2: got to San Clementi to remake his life. Part of 246 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 2: it was financial, but part of it was that he 247 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: felt like he was still young enough he can make 248 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 2: a difference. And of course he did make a difference. 249 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 2: You know, he wrote nine best selling books, He ended 250 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 2: up traveling the world. He ended up, of course, advising Reagan. 251 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 2: Once I joined the Reagan campaign. He ended up using 252 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 2: me as a conduit to advise Ronald Reagan later on 253 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: advised Bill Clinton. I'm sure he advised you when you 254 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 2: were a speaker. This is a person who had enormous resiliency, 255 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 2: and that's a big lesson in life. 256 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: You know, he also had an extraordinary work ethic. 257 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: That was amazing. He'd come in here very early in 258 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: the morning, and first thing I showed up, I'd get 259 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 2: buzzed and I'd come in and I'd have to brief 260 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 2: him on all the political whatever, even though we were 261 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 2: writing the memoirs or getting prepared for the David Frost interviews. 262 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 2: Whatever it was I'd be buzzed into make sure he 263 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 2: got briefed on all the political happenings of the day. 264 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 2: And we were going through the nineteen seventy six campaign 265 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 2: where Reagan was challenging Ford, so he wanted to know 266 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 2: everything that was going on, and I was his chief 267 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 2: political council during those days to advise him on what 268 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 2: was happening. He'd work very hard, then he'd go out 269 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 2: and play quick round of golf, and then a night 270 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 2: he'd had dinner, and then after dinner he'd go into 271 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 2: his study and he'd work late into the night, thinking, reading, 272 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 2: making notes, and then boom back the next morning, is 273 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 2: at work again. And he'd work on the weekends. I 274 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 2: worked on saturdays all during that time. I worked at 275 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 2: least a half a day on Saturdays, and he was 276 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 2: in every weekend working amazing work ethic. 277 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: Now, you say in your book that the conversations with 278 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: Nixon and san Clemente I'm quoting you now would prove 279 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: indispensable to the success of your relationship with Ronald Reagan. 280 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: Why was that? What's the bridge from sitting there San 281 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: Clemente to working with Reagan. 282 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 2: Well, it's the education I received the way he would 283 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 2: counsel Reagan remotely, even though he couldn't do it in person. 284 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 2: He would look at the mistakes he was making, or 285 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 2: look at the mistakes Ford was making later in the 286 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 2: seventy six campaign against Jimmy Carter, and he would point 287 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: out to me what amateur mistakes would making, or how 288 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 2: they could communicate better. When Nixon would have conversations about politics, 289 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 2: he would reach back into history, talking about something that 290 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 2: maybe Tom Dewey was doing at forty eight, and he 291 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 2: spent his story. But when he'd spent his story would 292 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 2: be about some piece of wisdom that they would pass 293 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 2: along during Nixon's career, and I would store that in 294 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 2: my head and either be a piece of strategy or 295 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 2: some art of communication. Another thing he did was he 296 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 2: would make observations about how Reagan communicated, how Reagan used illustrations, 297 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 2: or how Reagan noticed things he observed, how Reagan would 298 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 2: see things, and how Reagan would vividly describe things in 299 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:15,239 Speaker 2: his communications. I sort of just cataloged all these, and 300 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 2: then when I joined up with Reagan, I had all 301 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 2: that stored in my head, this extraordinary background, and so 302 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 2: as I describe it to people that by the time 303 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 2: I got my PhD in the University of Reagan, it 304 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 2: was because I had a masters and bachelors at the 305 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 2: College of Richard Nixon. 306 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,479 Speaker 1: Where was Nixon in the Ford Reagan primary fight in 307 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: seventy six. 308 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 2: He was bifurcated, if I had to say, mainly, he 309 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 2: wanted it to be a spirited contest. He didn't want 310 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 2: it to be a runaway. He just enjoyed watching the 311 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 2: back and forth every day to have something to talk about. 312 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 2: The other thing that I think is important remember is 313 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 2: that the Ford people, and not necessarily a president for himself, 314 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 2: the Ford people were not treating him very well. There 315 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 2: were ways in which Ford's staff were passing along through 316 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: our staff back in Sant Clementy discourtesies that were not 317 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 2: proper for any former president. And I think that's because 318 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 2: they probably thought the pardon was arming. On the one hand, 319 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 2: they thought maybe the pardon was harming Ford. But on 320 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 2: the other hand, it's because they got struck by the 321 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 2: power all of a sudden, they were injected by the 322 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 2: elixir of power that the mantle that they took on. 323 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 2: And that's one of the ultimate sins in Washington is 324 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 2: what happens with people who come from a lower place 325 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 2: in politics, and all of a sudden they get into 326 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 2: the Oval Office or have access to the Oval Office, 327 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 2: like a lot of Ford's people did. They came from 328 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 2: the House of Representatives and then they get to the 329 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 2: Vice Pray. Next thing you know, they're in sitty next 330 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 2: to the President. And while in eighteen months they've come 331 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 2: from staff positions in the House, they have access to 332 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 2: signal core lines in the White House, and they're flying 333 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 2: on Air Force one and I'm Marine one and they're 334 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 2: hot shots, and now they can call the Saint Clemente 335 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 2: and treat a shabbily. And that was bothering Nixcent a lot. 336 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 2: So to some extent, he was troubled by some of that. 337 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 2: And so because of that, I think you liked the 338 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,239 Speaker 2: idea of Reagan keeping it competitive and making sure that 339 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 2: the Ford people kept on their toes. 340 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 3: Let's put it that way. 341 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: You're in a unique position the two dominant Republicans from 342 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty, I would argue to the rise of Trump 343 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: or Nixon and Reagan, and you worked with both of them. 344 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: What was Reagan like to work with in contrast with Nixon? 345 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 2: Nixon was much more aggressively involved in the political conversation 346 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 2: of what was going on around him. Politically, he was 347 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 2: much more hands on and more engaged in that sense. 348 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 2: Reagan was not quite so engaged, but yet on the 349 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 2: communication side, Reagan was very much engaged in whatever speaking 350 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 2: role he had or whatever communication he had. I would 351 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 2: say this about Reagan. On the philosophical side, Reagan had 352 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 2: very strong views. He had very very very deep and 353 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 2: strong views about his economic views, about his philosophical views 354 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 2: about the role of government, about what he wanted to achieve, 355 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 2: about how he wanted to re strain it's growth, about 356 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 2: the free enterprise system. Those were shaped very strongly, partly 357 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 2: during his time heading the Union SAG, but mostly on 358 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 2: his time representing General Electric, traveling in the country, talking 359 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 2: to people and seeing the effects of the corrosiveness of 360 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 2: big government, and speaking on behalf of General Electric. 361 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: Well, I've always had this sense of Nixon is a 362 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: little more introverted, sort of the guy who had set 363 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: in the corner reading and writing. Reagan is more of 364 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: an extrovert. Was that your. 365 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 2: Experience, It's just the opposite. I have to say. Reagan 366 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 2: appears to be more extroverted, yet was more difficult to 367 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 2: get close to. He had very few close people on 368 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 2: the staff. He had a lot of people on the 369 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 2: staff that were meetings with them all the time, but 370 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 2: probably rarely knew who they were, what their names were. 371 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 2: He could converse, but he would be uncomfortable, and you 372 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 2: could census discomfort because he would start telling stories or 373 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 2: telling jokes. But with Nixon, people thought he was intro 374 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 2: and uncomfortable. But Nixon could start engaging instantly once you 375 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 2: got him going, he could engage you very easily. And 376 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 2: if you start asking him about politics or government or 377 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 2: foreign policy, he would engage you instantly. You probably had 378 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 2: meetings with him where he was very interested in meeting 379 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 2: with you and talking over policy. 380 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: He was a major strategic advisor in how we became 381 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: a majority. I first started seeing him in the early 382 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: eighties I go to New York. Nixon was remarkable. 383 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 2: He enjoyed having people around him. He was not a 384 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 2: recluse at all. 385 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: You end up being deeply involved in Reagan's first inaugural, 386 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: which I was at and which was a remarkable speech 387 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: at a key turning point in American history. What was 388 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: that like to work on an inaugural address that was frightening. 389 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 2: Somebody assigned you to write the inaugural address, and you said, 390 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 2: what do I do now? I'd written a lot of 391 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 2: speeches in the campaign. But you look at all the 392 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 2: inaugural addresses written, and you start reading all the previous 393 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 2: inaugural addresses, like Lincoln's and some of the great ones, 394 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 2: and you try not to be overwhelmed. Asked my colleagues 395 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 2: for help. I got examples writing from several of them. 396 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 2: But I sat with Reagan and our first meeting he 397 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 2: had so much other things out of the mind. But 398 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 2: then after a couple of meetings, he had some ideas. 399 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: He wanted a draft to work with, and I think 400 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 2: he wanted to do most of the speech himself, so 401 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 2: it really ended up as a collaboration. I played more 402 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 2: of a minor role at the end of the day, 403 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 2: because once he had a draft that he could work with, 404 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 2: some language and rhetoric, and then he had a plane 405 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 2: ride back from Washington where he had some downtime on 406 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 2: his own, and he said he could work on it 407 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 2: by himself. So then he took my draft and he 408 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 2: edited a good part of it. It was daunting, to 409 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 2: say the least, to try to come up with pros 410 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 2: that would not change the world, but to try to 411 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 2: get things across. The main thing at the very end 412 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 2: was to give some concept of a new beginning, that 413 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 2: change was on its way, and to give people a sense, 414 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 2: especially a sense that after this years of dreariness and 415 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: Jimmy Carter, and of course that's where you came from, 416 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 2: whence you came, the dreariness of those Jersey he was 417 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 2: certainly a hapless president in every respect. I call him 418 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 2: the accidental President. At the inaugural, we wanted to leave 419 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 2: the message that this was really something new, that people 420 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 2: would get some sense of uplift, that this was after 421 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 2: all these years of inflamation and high interest rates America, 422 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 2: with the hostages in Iran, and with our defense where 423 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 2: we had planes that couldn't fly, there was no spare 424 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 2: parts we had, Our navy was way down, America was 425 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 2: disrespected across the world, and now America would be coming back. 426 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 2: And that's the message we wanted to leave and want 427 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 2: of freedom, prosperity and hope and that there was going 428 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 2: to be something new coming. 429 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: The other speech you worked on that was very emotional 430 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: to me personally, was after Reagan had been shot. I 431 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 1: still remember it was just a remarkable moment when he 432 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 1: walks into the joint session and the place goes crazy 433 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 1: because he really could have died and here he was, 434 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: and then his recovery was pretty rapid, and you had 435 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: this sense of heroic figure. That's a very unique speech. 436 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: What was it like to work on that? 437 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 2: Candidly, the intention was to exploit the opportunity. We knew 438 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 2: that be a lot of sympathy following his recovery. We 439 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 2: wanted to exploit the opportunity because we want to pass 440 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 2: the Economic Recovery Act. Tip O'Neil was an aggressive antagonist 441 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 2: to run o' reagan on policy matters, and he did 442 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 2: not want that economic package to pass at all. So 443 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 2: we didn't need to roll tip O'Neil very badly. And 444 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 2: so that speech was intended to move the Congress, and 445 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 2: so we had to come up with some language to 446 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 2: ensure that we use that opportunity of all the sympathy 447 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 2: to Reagan, Plus we had to make sure that the 448 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 2: rhetoric was strong enough to say, listen, we are at 449 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 2: a turning point in America where we've got to change. 450 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 2: We have this opportunity now we may never have this 451 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 2: opportunity again to change how our economic system works. We've 452 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 2: got to get control of our government, and one way 453 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 2: is to get control of our budget and to lower 454 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 2: our taxes to get our economy moving again. And this 455 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 2: was the opportunity to do it. Not just to do 456 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 2: it by taking advantage of the sympathy, but we thought, 457 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 2: let's have a little bit of humor to lighten everybody up, 458 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 2: and including that dour phase tip O'Neil sitting behind Reagan 459 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 2: in the background. And that's where I came up with 460 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 2: that letter from this young boy from New York and 461 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 2: had everybody laughing at the front end of it. So 462 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 2: I think it turned out to be a pretty stirring evening. 463 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: No, it was remarkable, and I still remember how powerful 464 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: it was, how emotional it was for all of us. 465 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 2: We got the blue dogs. We wanted the blue dogs. 466 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: One of the amazing things that Bob Michael achieved as 467 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: the Republican minority leader was he was able to work 468 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: with conservative and moderate Democrats and roll Tip O'Neil again 469 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: and again on some very big issues, the biggest of 470 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: course being the tax cuts. But we had to get 471 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: about a third of the Democrats to come with us 472 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: to make sure we could pass things, and it was 473 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: a huge effort, and without Reagan's charisma and his ability 474 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: to reach the American people, we couldn't have done it. 475 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 1: You know, Ken, I want to thank you for joining me. 476 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: Your new book, Behind Closed Doors in the Room with 477 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: Reagan and Nixon is available now on Amazon and bookstores everywhere. 478 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: You were there, you were in the room. It's a 479 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: remarkable book. You've had a remarkable career. You are a 480 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: great patriot. I highly recommend your book to all of 481 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: our listeners, and I thank you for being with me today. 482 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, and I hope they'll go to 483 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 2: my website too, that's ww dot Reagan and Nixon dot com, 484 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 2: Reagan and Nixon dot com. There's a lot more information there. 485 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me new. 486 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Ken Kachigiam. You can get 487 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: a link to buy his new book, Behind Closed Doors 488 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: in the Room with Reagan and Nixon on our show 489 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: page at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gagish 490 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Slump. 491 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show 492 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team 493 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: at Gingris three sixty. If you've been enjoy Newtsworld, I 494 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us 495 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others 496 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of 497 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: Newtsworld can sign up for my three free weekly columns 498 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: at Gangwishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter I'm nut Gingrich. 499 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: This is Newtsworld.