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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to work in Progress. I am thrilled. Is thrilled

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Speaker 1: a big enough word for how I feel today? Elated

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Speaker 1: to be kicking off season two with today's guest, who

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Speaker 1: truly needs no introduction, as she has spent five decades

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Speaker 1: now in public service as an advocate, an attorney, the

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Speaker 1: First Lady, a United States Senator, the Secretary of State

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Speaker 1: of the United States, and a presidential candidate. Today we

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Speaker 1: are talking to Hillary Rodham Clinton, and it was my

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Speaker 1: absolute privilege to sit down and speak with her and

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Speaker 1: pick her big, incredible brain. Hillary is a champion of

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Speaker 1: human rights, democracy, and opportunities for women and arles here

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Speaker 1: at home and around the world. She has spent her

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Speaker 1: entire life fighting for equal rights and paving the way

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Speaker 1: for future generations of women to come. Born in Chicago,

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Speaker 1: where she began canvassing the South Side at the young

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Speaker 1: age of thirteen in nineteen sixty, she participated in student

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Speaker 1: council in her high school and seemed destined to be

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Speaker 1: on a path to greatness. That proved to be true

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Speaker 1: when she would eventually become the First Lady and then

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Speaker 1: a new York State senator, then Secretary of State to

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Speaker 1: President Obama, and then the very first woman ever to

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Speaker 1: be nominated for President of the United States for a

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Speaker 1: major political party. Hillary one the popular vote with sixty

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Speaker 1: six million American votes, but as we all know, did

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Speaker 1: not win the presidency due to the electoral College vote.

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Speaker 1: It was certainly not the outcome that I wanted, that

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Speaker 1: many of us wanted, but Hillary's perspective on it has

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Speaker 1: been nothing short of incredible. And if all of her achievements,

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Speaker 1: both personal and political, were not enough, she has the

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Speaker 1: author of nine best selling books and hosts of the

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Speaker 1: phenomenal podcast You and Me Both. I absolutely loved talking

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Speaker 1: with Hillary about her childhood, the first time she heard

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Speaker 1: Dr King speak, her inspirations to pursue activism on social issues,

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Speaker 1: the law, and a public life. We discussed her thoughts

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Speaker 1: on the pandemic, her documentary Hillary, which is now on Hulu,

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Speaker 1: the lessons she learned going to an all women's college and,

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Speaker 1: by the way, the lessons I learned going to an

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Speaker 1: all girls high school, and her learning to live outside

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Speaker 1: the trappings of traditional roles. We discussed how we still

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Speaker 1: have a lot of work to do to keep things

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Speaker 1: moving forward, for democracy, for women, for black and brown people,

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Speaker 1: and marginalized groups of all kinds. We discuss how women's

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Speaker 1: economic prosperity is necessary for national prosperity, and how even

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Speaker 1: though we're still fighting some of the same battles she

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Speaker 1: fought as a young woman, we have to stay strong

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Speaker 1: and keep going, and we have to always be willing

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Speaker 1: to learn. She is such a shining example of this,

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Speaker 1: and she's been a shining light for women and people

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Speaker 1: all around the world. I'm just so excited that I

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Speaker 1: had the opportunity today to sit in that light for

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Speaker 1: an hour, and I know that each of you at

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Speaker 1: home will feel it too. Enjoy Hi Sophia, Hi, good morning.

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Speaker 1: It's so nice to see you. Oh my gosh, where

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Speaker 1: are you? Where are we talking from. I'm in my

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Speaker 1: house in Chappaqua, New York. You are, I was wondering.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm home in l a. And it's it's kind

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Speaker 1: of wild to still be home. I've never had a

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Speaker 1: year like this, and I imagine you haven't either. I

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Speaker 1: don't think any of us have, and it's it's still

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Speaker 1: is a surreal sense. I I've only left my home

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Speaker 1: to go to Unfortunately, several funerals, um to cast my

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Speaker 1: vote in the electoral College, and to go to Biden's inauguration.

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Speaker 1: That's it. I've otherwise been home the whole time. It

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Speaker 1: certainly is a time in history, and and I even

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Speaker 1: think about the time that we're in currently. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've just finished Women's History Month, and I can't tell

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Speaker 1: you what it means to be sitting down to have

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Speaker 1: this conversation with you, perhaps one of my favorite women,

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Speaker 1: in such an icon to so many of us. Before

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Speaker 1: you jumped on, I was speaking with Nick Lovely Nick

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Speaker 1: who works with you, and we were talking about the

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Speaker 1: last time we all saw each other in person up

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Speaker 1: in Vancouver. For you that are gosh. We just had

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Speaker 1: such a good time and it was such a privilege

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Speaker 1: for me to be able to interview you and President Clinton.

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Speaker 1: And I was thinking about the laughs we had on stage,

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Speaker 1: you know, asking you questions and hearing. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't even know. It was an auditorium stadium. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what you would consider the building you were in,

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Speaker 1: but thousands of people just falling out laughing. You are funny,

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Speaker 1: Hillary Rodham Clinton, Oh well you are. Some days are

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Speaker 1: better than other days. But you. You You are this funny, sharp,

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Speaker 1: incredibly witty woman, and and I love that that it seems,

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Speaker 1: at least for me, perhaps because social media has given

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Speaker 1: us more sort of more access and more of a

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Speaker 1: window into your life than we've ever been able to

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Speaker 1: have before. But you really you bring such humor to

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Speaker 1: the world. And I must say, I this is not

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Speaker 1: the point of the podcast, but I was thinking yesterday

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Speaker 1: that you really need to give a master class on

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Speaker 1: the five word Twitter takedown, because you are owning social media.

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Speaker 1: And I have no idea if you have somebody like

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Speaker 1: writing your jokes, or if you just feel incredibly free,

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Speaker 1: you know, clicking away. But god, it's good. Freedom. Freedom

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Speaker 1: is such a gift, isn't it. You know what I remember, Sophia.

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Speaker 1: I remember how wonderful you were on stage with us,

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Speaker 1: and what a great time we had in front of

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Speaker 1: those thousands of people up in Vancouver. But then I

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Speaker 1: remember we all got together for a meal and the

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Speaker 1: laughs continued. We had a big square table, and you know,

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Speaker 1: the people with you, the people with us, everybody just

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Speaker 1: sat around and we ordered all kinds of stuff and

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Speaker 1: we were just talking and just laughing. It was such

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Speaker 1: a happy occasion. Whenever I see a picture of you

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Speaker 1: on social media read about you, big smile comes on

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Speaker 1: my face because, just like you are, time together pre

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Speaker 1: pandemic back in the day, it was just so joyous,

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Speaker 1: and I think we need more joy in our lives.

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Speaker 1: You know, we do need more humor and laughter, but

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Speaker 1: also communion and community, bringing people together and finding, you know,

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Speaker 1: something to share. So you know, you put a smile

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Speaker 1: on my face and I'm so happy to see you,

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Speaker 1: and I love your podcast. It's just it's great. But

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Speaker 1: I think during this last year, especially while we were

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Speaker 1: all apart, podcasting and a few other kinds of connections

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Speaker 1: have really become more and more important, don't you think

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Speaker 1: I do? I do? And the ability to do this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think so much about the people who

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Speaker 1: went through the last global, truly global pandemic in and

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Speaker 1: that they couldn't do this. I know, they didn't have

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Speaker 1: this technology available to them to see their loved ones

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Speaker 1: and people they admire and to have conversations like this.

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Speaker 1: So I feel very grateful for these silver linings. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, that's a really good way of putting it.

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Speaker 1: You know, I thought a lot about and I've looked

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Speaker 1: at pictures of people in that pandemic back in nineteen

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Speaker 1: and one thing that struck me. You know, we've had

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Speaker 1: this big debate now about whether kids can go to school,

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Speaker 1: and they were very legitimate concerns that parents and teachers

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Speaker 1: raised about the safety of their children, the safety of

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Speaker 1: the staff and schools. There are pictures from way back

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Speaker 1: a hundred years ago where children are sitting in coats, hats, gloves,

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Speaker 1: and scarves in classrooms with the windows open. So even

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Speaker 1: though they didn't have the access to scientific knowledge that

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Speaker 1: we do, they knew enough to kind of say, okay,

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Speaker 1: if we're outside or as close to being outside as

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Speaker 1: we can, which means in a classroom with the windows open.

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Speaker 1: But so many of our schools don't have windows that

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Speaker 1: open anymore. I was talking to a friend of mine

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Speaker 1: who is retired educator at this point in your life

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Speaker 1: and she gets she said, you know, but the windows

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Speaker 1: don't open, so how do you get the ventilation that

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Speaker 1: was available a hundred years ago. I just find it

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Speaker 1: fascinating to make these comparisons. That is so interesting saying

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Speaker 1: I thinking about how history has changed, and and truly

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Speaker 1: you make me think a lot about this. Really prepping

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Speaker 1: for this interview. Made me think a lot about this

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Speaker 1: because you have these sort of iconic footprints throughout the history.

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Speaker 1: You know that I've looked back at the feminist movement

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Speaker 1: that was well under way when I was born, and

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Speaker 1: civil rights, and you know, the conversations I've had with

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Speaker 1: my parents about the marches that they attended and the

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Speaker 1: and the protests that they went to. And it's been

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Speaker 1: such a treat to watch the documentary on Hulu for

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Speaker 1: everyone listening at home. Hillary is Out. It's a four

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Speaker 1: part series. It's so beautifully done. And again, in the

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Speaker 1: same way that I feel about you having the social

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Speaker 1: media presence, I felt so grateful, especially as a person

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Speaker 1: who knows you in the way that I do, for

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Speaker 1: the access you granted people. I think there's this estimation

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Speaker 1: or assumption that when you've led such a public life,

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Speaker 1: you don't really want people in your space more than

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Speaker 1: they need to be. And you are the person who says, everybody,

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Speaker 1: come in, come around the table, you know, let's have

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Speaker 1: a snack, let's have a talk. And it's so cool

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Speaker 1: too to have the world seeing that in this way,

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Speaker 1: And it really led me into some of the questions

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Speaker 1: which are my favorite to ask people who I sit

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Speaker 1: across from. Everyone knows you as you are. They know

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Speaker 1: you as this impressive woman, They know you as the

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Speaker 1: woman who got up and said women's rights are human

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Speaker 1: rights to the globe. But I love getting to know

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Speaker 1: who you were as a little girl. And I had

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Speaker 1: an AHA moment watching the doc, really feeling this kinship

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Speaker 1: for the moment you spoke at your commencement at Wellesley

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Speaker 1: standing up to those sort of condescensions about gender and

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Speaker 1: women's roles. But my curiosity is, did that spark that

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Speaker 1: desire to defend and stand for and speak up? Did

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Speaker 1: that start when you were a little girl in Chicago?

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Speaker 1: Can you trace when that began? It really goes back

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Speaker 1: to my parents, um And they were very different people.

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Speaker 1: They were both products of incredibly separate upbringings. My mother

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Speaker 1: had a much more difficult, unconventional life, and it was

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Speaker 1: pretty much abandoned as a child, and then took a

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Speaker 1: job when she was thirteen to get out of her

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Speaker 1: grandparents house after her parents basically sent her to live

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Speaker 1: with her grandparents because it was such a unpleasant experience.

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Speaker 1: Um and they were so mean to her, And she

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Speaker 1: basically worked through high school so starting when she was thirteen.

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Speaker 1: She was somebody else's housekeeper, babysitter, but got to go

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Speaker 1: to high school, and you know, she was somebody who

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Speaker 1: um always had to stand up for herself. She always

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Speaker 1: had to claim her space in the world because nobody

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Speaker 1: else was going to do it for her. You know,

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Speaker 1: my father is the middle child of three boys, growing

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Speaker 1: up in Scranton, Pennsylvania, and his parents were really old fashioned,

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Speaker 1: uh in both the best and the not so good

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Speaker 1: ways that you think about that phrase. But you know,

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Speaker 1: he grew up playing sports, playing football. He went on

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Speaker 1: to Penn State in n one to play football. I

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Speaker 1: mean he was a really you know, kind of rough

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Speaker 1: and tumble guy, got through the Depression, went into the

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Speaker 1: Navy during World War Two. But I will say both

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Speaker 1: of them were totally free of gender bias. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I cannot remember either of my parents ever saying to me,

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Speaker 1: you can't do that because you're a girl, or don't

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Speaker 1: do that because you know girls don't do that. You know,

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Speaker 1: my father, who was clueless about girls, um was almost

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Speaker 1: egalitarian because of his cluelessness. So what he cared about

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Speaker 1: was me standing up for myself, doing well in school.

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Speaker 1: And they have gave me a foundation which really protected

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Speaker 1: and provided an ability for me to speak out when

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Speaker 1: I got into junior high in high school and there

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Speaker 1: were all these expectations about what girls were supposed to

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Speaker 1: do and not do, and the way boys treated you,

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Speaker 1: and the way teachers treated you and all of that.

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Speaker 1: So I I give them the lion's share of the

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Speaker 1: credit because they did not impose, you know, artificial constructions

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Speaker 1: and stereotypes. Because by the time I got to high school,

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Speaker 1: my girlfriends were saying things like, oh, I hope I

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Speaker 1: hope the teacher doesn't announce the grades because I I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get a better grade than my boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: I mean, things like that were becoming, you know, so

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Speaker 1: much part of the atmosphere, and I would look like, well,

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Speaker 1: you're supposed to do the best you can. You can't

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Speaker 1: worry about your boyfriend. But I was gifted with that by,

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Speaker 1: you know, the family that I grew up in, but

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Speaker 1: so many other families really were kind of, you know,

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Speaker 1: caught in the gender stereoty types of those years. So

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Speaker 1: when I was able to go to college, which is

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Speaker 1: something my mother never got to do, and it was

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Speaker 1: really important to her that I go I chose to

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Speaker 1: go to an all women's college, Wellesley College, outside of Boston,

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Speaker 1: partly because I'd gone to a huge comprehensive at high

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Speaker 1: school in the suburbs of Chicago. You know, thousands of

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Speaker 1: kids filling the halls every time the class has changed,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, I just wanted to focus on my

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Speaker 1: studies and you know, date on the weekends, but not frankly,

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Speaker 1: worry about what I look like during the week when

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Speaker 1: I was going to class. Things like that saved me

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Speaker 1: a lot of psychic time and space. So I give,

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Speaker 1: you know, I give my upbringing. I give teachers who

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Speaker 1: encouraged me. I had a sixth grade teacher who you know,

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Speaker 1: used to tell the girls, primarily, you know, don't hide

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Speaker 1: your light under a bushel basket, which kind of comes

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Speaker 1: from an old scriptural um saying. And I was lucky

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Speaker 1: I had an upbringing that sort of swam against the tide,

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Speaker 1: and I was able to make decisions that I thought

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Speaker 1: were best for me um and not worried too much

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Speaker 1: about what other people were expecting. And you're right, it's

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Speaker 1: the gift of not being in a cage. It's really

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Speaker 1: the way that I've thought a lot about it. I

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Speaker 1: I sort of had the the inverse experience to you.

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Speaker 1: I went to big coed public schools through sixth grade,

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Speaker 1: and then from seventh grade through graduating high school, I

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Speaker 1: went to a very small, um you know, liberal arts

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Speaker 1: focused all girls school. When I was going to college,

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Speaker 1: I thought, well, I want to have the big school experience.

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Speaker 1: I want to go with thousands of kids. But I

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Speaker 1: really now and insight can look back and understand that

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Speaker 1: simply being given the freedom from those social expectations that

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Speaker 1: creep in from who knows where, gave me the permission

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Speaker 1: to always raise my hand, always have a thought, have

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Speaker 1: an opinion, to love critical thinking, to want to examine

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Speaker 1: nuance because that's what I got to do in class

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Speaker 1: all day. You know, I think, you know, it's not

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Speaker 1: the right choice for everybody, but I do think it

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Speaker 1: should be a choice. And when I was in the Senate,

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Speaker 1: I teamed up with a Republican woman, Senator kay Bailey

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Speaker 1: Hutchison from Texas to pass a law that permitted UH

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Speaker 1: there to be public single sex high schools or schools

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Speaker 1: that could be eligible for federal funding. Because people said, oh,

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Speaker 1: but you know that would be discriminatory, I said no,

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Speaker 1: I mean, what we want is to enable every child

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Speaker 1: to develop to the fullest of his or her potential.

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Speaker 1: And for some children, it's like I'm a I'm a

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Speaker 1: big supporter of schools for the arts. You know, I

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Speaker 1: could never I could never do well you could. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't let that be available for kids, or math and

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Speaker 1: science where kids are really driven to, you know, really

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Speaker 1: immerse themselves. We should be looking at our education system

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Speaker 1: as a network that provides opportunities that fit the needs

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Speaker 1: of different kids. And you know, I think your experience

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Speaker 1: speaks volumes. You know. I did it in college. You

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Speaker 1: did it in junior high, in high school. But both

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Speaker 1: of us took from it that sense of freedom, you know,

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Speaker 1: that feeling that I didn't have to worry that the

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Speaker 1: boys would make fun of me. I remember in high

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Speaker 1: school one time one of my teachers said, you have

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Speaker 1: a lot to say. You should learn how to be

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Speaker 1: a better public speaker. I said, okay, fine. So there

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Speaker 1: was a class that I added to everything else when

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Speaker 1: I was a sophomore in public speaking. But it was

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Speaker 1: also the class that a lot of the big athletes

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Speaker 1: took because the teacher was notorious for giving everybody a

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Speaker 1: good grade as long as you showed up. I was like,

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Speaker 1: as I recall, I may be slightly wrong about this.

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Speaker 1: I was like one of two or three girls in

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Speaker 1: a class of like, you know, twenty, and all the

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Speaker 1: boys were huge. They were all football players and basketball

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Speaker 1: players and all of that. And I remember going to

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Speaker 1: the front of the class to practice my public speaking

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Speaker 1: and the teacher he sat way in the back, and

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Speaker 1: the boys would be up in the front, and I'd

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Speaker 1: be up there, you know, giving a speech about whatever

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Speaker 1: I was supposed to talk about, and the boys would

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Speaker 1: be whispering like, are you're really doing bad? You're really terrible? Stop,

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Speaker 1: don't do that. I mean, I couldn't, you know in

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Speaker 1: those days, you know, you just didn't even know how

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Speaker 1: to respond. You just had to keep going, which is

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Speaker 1: part of my mantra. But I remember, well, okay, that

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Speaker 1: was a great experience for me then, very formative. But

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Speaker 1: wouldn't it be nice to just be in a class

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Speaker 1: with all women, where everybody could say what they wanted

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Speaker 1: to say and the boys weren't you know, the primary

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Speaker 1: actors within the classroom, not being the commentators, the critics,

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Speaker 1: the insulters um that you know, they you know, just

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Speaker 1: naturally as young men often fall into. So yeah, I

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Speaker 1: I am a huge believer in different kinds of public education,

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Speaker 1: and of course private if that's available to you, but

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Speaker 1: public education that meets you where you are and gives

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Speaker 1: kids a chance to really, you know, be everything they

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Speaker 1: can be. M I think it's so important and and

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Speaker 1: I'm curious too. You you had these formative experiences in schools.

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Speaker 1: I just loved you talking in the documentary about even

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Speaker 1: in high school, you deciding to run for student council president.

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Speaker 1: Everyone thinking girls don't do that. You know, boys win

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Speaker 1: the student council, and you talked about how, of course

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Speaker 1: a boy one, it was the era it was. But

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Speaker 1: then he expected you to do all the work, he

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Speaker 1: asked organization committee. That's exactly right. People would actually say that, well,

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Speaker 1: why why do you think you can be president of

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Speaker 1: boys always president? Why don't you run for secretary? No,

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Speaker 1: I want to run for president of the student council.

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Speaker 1: You know, an experience and foreshadowed some of my other

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Speaker 1: experiences down the road. And um, so I lose, of course,

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Speaker 1: And immediately the guy who I knew, I mean, he

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Speaker 1: was a friend of mine, you know, basically says well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've got this great idea, why don't you

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Speaker 1: do all the work. I mean, you love this work.

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Speaker 1: You you you would be great at it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll have an organization committee and you'll be in charge

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Speaker 1: of the organization committee. And of course, because I am

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Speaker 1: a glutton for work and I love organization, I said, okay.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it was just so you can't make

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Speaker 1: it up. It's so much you know, of the time.

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Speaker 1: And you know, back then, Sophia, we didn't even have

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Speaker 1: the vocabulary. You know, the women's movement was beginning. But

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Speaker 1: by the time you know, I graduated from high school

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Speaker 1: in nineteen, it was really just beginning. You know. I've

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Speaker 1: written about how my mother, you know, always took books

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Speaker 1: out from the library, but she heard about and I

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Speaker 1: saw in the library this book by a woman named

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Speaker 1: Betty free dan Uh and so she actually bought it

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Speaker 1: and how she she underlined it and it was really

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Speaker 1: important to her. There just wasn't the vocabulary yet. It

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Speaker 1: was just beginning to you know, take root, and the

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Speaker 1: women's movement was beginning to have really vocal advocates. But

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Speaker 1: back in those days, I mean, sexism, misogyny, those were

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Speaker 1: maybe words in a dictionary somewhere, but they didn't seem

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Speaker 1: to resonate or fit with who we were. And it

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Speaker 1: took years to feel the confidence and the understanding to

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Speaker 1: be able to, you know, speak out against what was

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Speaker 1: clearly um an environment filled with prejudice. You know. My

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Speaker 1: earliest experience was when I was in junior high and

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Speaker 1: I fell in love with the space program and I

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Speaker 1: wrote NASA and said I would love to know how

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Speaker 1: you become an astronaut. And literally they wrote me back saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, thank you very much, but we don't accept women.

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Speaker 1: And this was, you know, right in the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the space program. And then there were schools I couldn't

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Speaker 1: apply to. There were scholarships I could never have gotten.

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Speaker 1: There were jobs that were in the what was called

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Speaker 1: the classified section of the newspaper, where men only, women

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Speaker 1: only jobs, And that seems like a not just fifty

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Speaker 1: years ago, but a totally different universe for young women today,

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Speaker 1: and thank goodness, thank goodness it is. And something that

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Speaker 1: strikes me about it is it resonates in terms of

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Speaker 1: these conversations we're currently having about privilege and and what

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Speaker 1: privilege is not and this notion that really when you

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Speaker 1: exist in a privileged position, it simply means that there

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00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 1: are boxes you are not placed in, or hurdles that

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Speaker 1: are not placed in front of you. It simply means

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Speaker 1: a scholarship or an opportunity, or a job, or a

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Speaker 1: placement or financial aid or a mortgage is not with

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Speaker 1: held from you. And and that feels like a really

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Speaker 1: profound notion because to your point, so many things were withheld,

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Speaker 1: and while we as women still face sexism and misogyny,

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Speaker 1: less is withheld from us. And I believe our goal

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Speaker 1: is to continue down this path so that nothing is

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Speaker 1: withheld from the generations of women who come through the

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Speaker 1: doors after us. I agree with that completely. And that's

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Speaker 1: why we all owe such a debt to Ruth Bader Ginsburg,

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Speaker 1: You know, this wonderful, scholarly, smart, tough minded lawyer, because

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Speaker 1: I again, I had a really incredibly impactful experience when

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Speaker 1: I was, you know, a young, newly married woman. I'd

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Speaker 1: gone to law school. My husband had gone to law school,

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Speaker 1: he had been elected Attorney General of Arkansas. I was

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Speaker 1: working a law firm. I made more money than he did.

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00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 1: I applied for a credit card. This was probably I

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Speaker 1: don't know nineteen seventy seven, maybe I applied for a

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Speaker 1: credit card in my own name and was told I

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Speaker 1: could not, even though I made more money, even though

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Speaker 1: I had a perfect credit record, because I've never bought anything.

406
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 1: I had didn't have any death And I was so

407
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: struck when we were all giving, you know, tributes to

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Speaker 1: Justice Ginsburg after her death about how every single woman,

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Speaker 1: regardless of station in life, race, ethnicity, was affected by

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Speaker 1: her successful legal career, you know, for the A. C.

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Speaker 1: L U you know, on the Circuit Court, on the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court, after my husband, uh, you know, nominated her

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Speaker 1: and she was confirmed. And you're exactly right, Sophia. I mean,

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Speaker 1: part of what we've been doing when it comes to

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Speaker 1: race and gender and every other category that people put

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Speaker 1: themselves into or are is imposed on them, is trying

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00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: to break all those boxes down. And we still have

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00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: a long way to go, because even when you knocked

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00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: down laws or regulations, because we finally did. But let's

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00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: take a perfect example, Title nine, one of the most

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Speaker 1: re evolutionary pieces of legislation, which basically said women had

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00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: to be treated equally in academia. And we all think

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00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: about it as being about sports, but it was also

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00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: about scholarships and fellowships and lab space and course enrollments.

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00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: But it's most well known for sports. And look at

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Speaker 1: the trouble that we still have because we have two

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Speaker 1: tournaments going on of the best of men's basketball and

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00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: the best of women's basketball, and these fabulous women from

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Speaker 1: these great teams show up for their tournament and they

430
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 1: are treated like second class citizens. You know. The young

431
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: men show up and they're given, you know, a beautifully

432
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: laid out training facility with every kind of weight and

433
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: other piece of equipment. You can imagine the women this

434
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: little lonely stack of free weights. They're not given the renumeration.

435
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: You know. If a men's team wins the n C

436
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: Double A gives money to the school and the team

437
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: a woman, well congratulations, thank you very much. I mean,

438
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: we are still fighting so many of these battles because

439
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: you can change the laws, you can open up civil rights,

440
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: you can open up voting rights, you can and there

441
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: are still forces that want to turn the clock back

442
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: on you know, black and brown people, on lgbt Q,

443
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: people on women. You just constantly have to remain vigilant

444
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: and determined because honestly, you know, the struggle is not over.

445
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: It goes on. And I wonder if the desire to

446
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: roll back access is just so rooted in scarcity mentality,

447
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 1: this this idea which we know has been disproven, that

448
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: there is a finite bucket of success, a finite bucket

449
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: of finance. The truth is, if we invest in people,

450
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: if we allow people to participate in the economy, the

451
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: economy grows. I saw an article just this last week,

452
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: I believe it was in the in the Post about

453
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: how women unpaid labor annually creates a deficit in the

454
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: United States of one point for trillion dollars. And that's

455
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: if that unpaid labor were only paid the current substandard

456
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 1: minimum wage of seven And I just thought, imagine how

457
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: much wealthier the whole country and everyone in it would

458
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: be if women were hiring fairly for their work. Yeah,

459
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: and if you knock down the barriers to women's participation

460
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: in the paid labor force. So it's it's a two

461
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: part problem. Women's unpaid labor, which, as you rightly point out,

462
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: literally keeps everything going, and women's paid labor that is

463
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: either undermined, diminished, or made incredibly hard because we don't

464
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: have paid family leave. We don't have access to quality,

465
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: affordable childcare. We still have bias in hiring and promotion

466
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,479
Speaker 1: and the like. And and I love the way that

467
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: you connect all of this up because the entire world's

468
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: economy would increase dramatically. There's something called the gross domestic product,

469
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: you know g d P. And when I was Secretary

470
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: of State, I kept making this case because yes, the

471
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: barriers in a country like ours are are real, and

472
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: they hold women back, they hold people of color back,

473
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: we know, But think about how much more the barriers

474
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: are in places that don't even pretend to try to,

475
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: you know, knockdown uh, you know, bias and discrimination. And

476
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: I gave a speech to a international gathering where I

477
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: talked about how even the so called advanced economies like

478
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: you know, in the US, in Europe, in Japan, places

479
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: like that would grow so much if you knocked down

480
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: these barriers. But think about what would happen if you

481
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: treated the participation of women in the formal economy in

482
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: Africa and Asian Latin America with the respect it deserves.

483
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: You know, I was in Africa years ago when I

484
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: was first lady, and I was in a I was

485
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: in a van with a bunch of uh expert type people.

486
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: And everywhere I looked, you know, women were carrying firewood

487
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: and water, and they were in charge of the market stalls.

488
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: They were in the fields, uh, you know, doing the

489
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: work of agriculture. And I remember saying to this group

490
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: I was traveling with, Look, if women in the so

491
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: called informal economy were paid, their families would be better.

492
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: But not just their families, their communities, their entire societies.

493
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: And if all the laws were broken down that prevented

494
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: them from inheriting and being given access to the best

495
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: seeds and irrigation and all the rest of it. And

496
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: I remember this one economy is saying, well, how would

497
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: you ever value that? Well, let's put our minds to

498
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: work and figure out how we would value that. Because

499
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: right now we're coming out of a pandemic that has

500
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: been terrible for the whole world, but it has been

501
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: especially terrible for women and girls. We've seen a big

502
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: increase in unemployment for years for women in our country

503
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: and elsewhere in the world. We've seen an increase in

504
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: domestic violence. We've seen an increase in parts of the

505
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: world of child marriage. I mean, we look at all

506
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: of the indicators that we're going to have to, you know,

507
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: come to grips with coming out of this pandemic. And

508
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: one of the biggest problems is what's happened to women

509
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: and um in our own country. We've got to figure

510
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: out how we get everything up and going school back,

511
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: going child care back, going get women back into the

512
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: workforce because it's not a nice thing to do, it's

513
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: a necessity for them, especially if they're single parents. Yes,

514
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: and and that really entrusts me. You and your career

515
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: really inspired me as a young woman in school. And

516
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: also you've continued to inspire me as a political activist.

517
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: And and now it's very surreal to say you inspire

518
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: me as a friend. I'm like, this is the weird.

519
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: This is so weird that I can chat with you

520
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: in tex score as item. I'm like, what is my life? Um?

521
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: But you as as and you speak about it so beautifully,

522
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: and you pointed out a lot which I really respect

523
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: for your audience because you have to know a lot

524
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: as a human to know how much Hillary Clinton knows,

525
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: because you are a true expert and not in one arena,

526
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: in in a multiplicity of systems. And when you talk

527
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: about the systems that affect us, the systems of the

528
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: global economy. How we could increase the GDP by allowing

529
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: women into so many of these systems, by allowing access

530
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: to people of color and so many of these systems.

531
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: I'm struck by the early aha moment that I had

532
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: reading glorious work about how sexism and racism are these

533
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: inextricably linked evil bedfellows. One can't exist without the other.

534
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: And and the oppression of poverty is to me almost

535
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: like the triplet of those two. Those three work in

536
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: this cohort to keep women and people of color so

537
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: deeply oppressed and struggling here, as you said, and around

538
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: the world, and even grosser variations. And when I think about,

539
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: you know, as you mentioned, being in school pre this

540
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: women's lib opportunity, uh, not being able to as a

541
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: young woman, and not just a young woman who was

542
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: a lawyer, but a young woman who was a partner

543
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: at her legal firm, give you the snaps you deserve,

544
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: who couldn't get a credit card. And I think about

545
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: the sort of mirrored experience we spoke about our our

546
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: icon r GV. She's on my desk, um her little bubble. Uh.

547
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: She was told how dare you when she applied to

548
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: law school? How dare you take a place from a man?

549
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: And you have the same experience at Yale you talked

550
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: about how men said, you know, if you get a

551
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: spot in this school, I'll probably have to go to Vietnam.

552
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: That's right, That's right. And I guess I see the

553
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: links between our experiences as feminist leaders and then between this,

554
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: you know, in the micro, the individual, and then I

555
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: see in the macro these enormous systems, and I think

556
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: about the women's movement. I think about, by the way,

557
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: what a badass you are that you were telling your

558
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: mom you were going to the movies, but going to

559
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: protests in downtown Chicago. Here, doctor King speaking high school. Hello,

560
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: do you think that in terms of your taking up

561
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: space in an era where that was not so easy

562
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: becoming a partner in a law firm? Um, when when

563
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: Bill was Attorney general and then governor taking a stance

564
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: as first Lady for health care for children? Were you

565
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: so assured of taking up space which wasn't a cultural

566
00:33:54,360 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: conversation then as a woman, because of these environments of

567
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: change that you were steeped in as you were evolving,

568
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: you know, through your your childhood and and your education,

569
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 1: do you think I do. I think that's a really

570
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: interesting way of putting it. I became very interested in

571
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: political change in progress for people, not just in terms

572
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: of their rights and opportunities, but they're full participation in

573
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 1: their societies. So I was drawn to the civil rights movement.

574
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: I was drawn to the women's rights movement. I was

575
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: drawn to the anti war movement. And so in college

576
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: and then in law school, I kind of gravitated to

577
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: people who shared those views about what we needed to

578
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: do to be not just on the sidelines complaining or

579
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: frankly ignoring what was happening, but to be in the

580
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: middle of it. And when I was in law school,

581
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: I had a really formative experience because I was the

582
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: first year law student and I saw we used to

583
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: bulletin boards in those days, and I saw a notice

584
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: on a bulletin board that a woman named Mary and

585
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 1: Wright Edelman was going to be speaking at Yale, and

586
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: I had just literally read an article about her. I

587
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: think of Time magazine. She had graduated from me law

588
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: schools African American woman who became the first African American

589
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: woman ever to pass the Mississippi bar She was working

590
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 1: for the Double A C p UH and and she

591
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: was in the midst of, you know, not just the

592
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: agitation for voting rights, but also she was part of

593
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: a program to really improved the impoverishment of kids. So

594
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: she was helping with trying to bring heads start to

595
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: you know, the Mississippi Delta, trying to bring food stamps,

596
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: the things that had happened during the sixties under LBJ,

597
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 1: which we're still not being implemented. And she was really

598
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: on the front line. So anyway, I saw this, noticed

599
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: that she was coming to the university to speak. I

600
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: went to hear her speak, and I was just, you know,

601
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 1: blown away. She you know, it was ten twelve years

602
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: fifteen years older than me, but boy, I was taken completely.

603
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: And I went up to her afterwards and I said,

604
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: I'd like to work for you this summer, and she

605
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: was great. She said, well, I'd be happy to have

606
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: you work for me, but I can't pay you because

607
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: she had just started an advocacy group for poor people

608
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: and children, which became the Children's Defense Fund. And I said, well,

609
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: if I can figure out how to get myself paid,

610
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: can I go to work for you? Said sure, So

611
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: I got, uh something applied for and got something called

612
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: the Law Students Civil Rights Research Fellowship, and I got,

613
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: you know, a small stipend, but I was putting myself

614
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: through law school, so I needed to get paid. So

615
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: off I went to work for Maryan. What an unbelievable education.

616
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: I learned about what happened to migrants in the fields

617
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: of our country and what happened to their kids. I

618
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: learned much more were about what was happening in the

619
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: South because of Marian's connections, and you know, the efforts

620
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 1: to basically defy civil rights rulings, you know, the creating

621
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: a segregated academies so white families wouldn't send their kids

622
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: to school with you know, black kids. And I mean

623
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: I just had this front row seat into what was

624
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 1: happening and what was you know, the struggle about. So

625
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: I worked for Marian off and on for a number

626
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 1: of years, ended up chairing her board. I found her

627
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: to be an incredibly impressive and inspiring not just leader,

628
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: but uh, you know, guide and friend over the time

629
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: that I worked with her. So yes, as you say,

630
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: you know, my church set up an opportunity for me

631
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 1: to go here. Dr Martin Luther King Jr. My my

632
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: friend and I my best friend from sixth grade, and

633
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: I told our parents we were going to the movies,

634
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: and we went down to Grant Park in nine eight

635
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: to see the riots and what became known as the

636
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: Chicago seven trial later than later on. And I mean

637
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: we we really were in the middle, and I gravitated

638
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 1: toward people who shared both my curiosity and my my

639
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: sense of commitment to making change. And it's not easy,

640
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: I have to tell you. I mean, here we are.

641
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: I'm just heartbroken that we're back fighting over voting rights.

642
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: I'm just heartbroken. I mean, what is wrong that we

643
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: had a great election? Yes, my side one the other

644
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: side got a heck of a lot of votes and

645
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: did better than I thought they would in the House

646
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: and the Senate. Everybody said it was a fair election.

647
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: It was a credible election. Everybody who looked at it

648
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: had to conclude that. And the other side wants to

649
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: take that away and make it harder for people of

650
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 1: color and young people to vote. It's the same stuff, So, Fianne,

651
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: We're still fighting the same battles, and we cannot get

652
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: discouraged or deterred. We have to keep getting back up

653
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 1: and you know, keep fighting for the rights of everybody.

654
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,479
Speaker 1: As you said in the very beginning, it almost feels

655
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: to me that we keep fighting battles we've already won well,

656
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: but we haven't won them though. That's the problem, and

657
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: it goes back to something you said. You know, the

658
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: people who are leading these fights are not the poor,

659
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 1: struggling people. They are the privileged people. And it's not

660
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: just that they don't understand. You grow the pie so

661
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: there's more room for everybody. They want to remain dominant.

662
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: They want their interests, their world views, their political beliefs

663
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: to remain dominant in the culture and in our our

664
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: political system. What shocks me about that desire for dominance

665
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 1: is that it will stop at nothing, the dirtiness with

666
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: which that side fights, these blatant attempts at oppressing people

667
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 1: of color, these blatant conspiracy theories that have been driven

668
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: up into just scary ah version, whatever the internet version

669
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: of a household name is. It's it's quite frightening to me.

670
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: And and I'm curious if you think, because you've you've

671
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: been in the space for so long, we didn't do

672
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: enough early enough to stop the permissibility of lying in

673
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 1: the public sphere. I think back to you, as you said,

674
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: you know, making more money than your husband when he

675
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 1: was running for office. I love watching the campaign videos

676
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: from the early nineties, you know, from the election, and

677
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: and there's people saying, you know, well, Hillary, Hillary Rodham

678
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 1: Clinton makes three times as much money as her husband,

679
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: who's a presidential candidate, and I'm like, yes, girl, you do. Um.

680
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: But something that I admired so much, which I learned

681
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: from the dock, was that because Bill was governor of Arkansas, you,

682
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: as a lawyer, a partner in a law firm that

683
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: worked for the state, said I will not take a

684
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: dollar of the money that's divided between the partners and

685
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: the staff that comes in from the state of Arkansas, simply,

686
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: and I would say, honorably, to avoid even the appearance

687
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 1: of impropriety, you chose to take less. And I keep thinking,

688
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: of course you did, because your Hillary. But there's no

689
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: man on earth who would have done that. They would

690
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: have said, well, it's my cut, I'm a partner, I

691
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: get the money. So I think about you making that decision.

692
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: And yet during his election there were folks on the

693
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 1: right who came out and attacked him and said he

694
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: was funneling money to his wife, and that was categorically

695
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: and factually untrue, proven by the receipts. I think about

696
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: what it must have been like for you, because people

697
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 1: forget that, Yes, you're an icon, but you are a woman.

698
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: You are a human woman. You are one person who,

699
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 1: with your incredible education, your experience in time and place

700
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: in history, said I want to work to change the

701
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: world for the better. You talk about growing up in

702
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: a conservative family, you were the president of the Young

703
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: Republicans your first year at college, and then period of

704
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: time right, and you said in the doc that you

705
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: realized very quickly, Oh, this is actually not what I

706
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: align with in my beliefs, so I have to reidentify

707
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: politically right. I think about what a gift if people

708
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: could just acquire more information and change their minds, novel idea.

709
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: You You have always pursued progress, no matter where it

710
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: might take you. You know, I never I never did

711
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: it thinking that I was immune from criticism. You know

712
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: that comes with the territory when you put yourself into

713
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: the public arena, whether you do it as an actress

714
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: like you, or you do it as a political or

715
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 1: public advocate like me, you know, you're gonna good criticized

716
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: for all kinds of reasons, and and that just goes

717
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: with the territory worry. And I tried to learn to

718
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: take criticism seriously, but not personally, because seriously in the

719
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: sense that maybe I could learn something, but not so

720
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: it would knock me down and keep me down. What

721
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: I never really expected was the constant torrent of lies

722
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: and falsehoods and attacks rooted in totally made up nonsense.

723
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: And that started in the nineties. I mean, one of

724
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: the things in the documentary on Hulu, which I had

725
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: forgotten about, is how I was being burned in effigy

726
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: for trying to get universal health care for everybody, and

727
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: that was fed by talk radio and shock jocks and

728
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: you know, these awful, you know, terrible attacks on me.

729
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: And it only got worse because Fox News got started

730
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: and talk radio expanded, and then oh my gosh, social

731
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: media and on the Internet arrived. And I don't think

732
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 1: we've yet fully come to grips with how easy it

733
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: is to plant falsehoods about all kinds of things, and

734
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: not just an individual you know, like me, but about vaccinations,

735
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: for example. And I was stunned at how in the election,

736
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: all of these crazy conspiracy theories about me, Um, we're

737
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: just attracting hundreds of thousands of people on Facebook in particular,

738
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 1: but also the other platforms. So yes, we are living

739
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: in a time where there's a deliberate effort to misinform

740
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: and disinform people, to really twist and pervert reality, facts, evidence,

741
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: truth for an advantage, whether it's a commercial advantage, of

742
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: political advantage, of religious or ideological advantage, the advantage of

743
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: a foreign adversary, you know, like Russia and the role

744
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: that it's played. So yes, I think we're only now

745
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: coming to grips with it. I was very relieved that

746
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: in the campaign people were a lot smarter about how

747
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 1: they looked at and digested information. But many more people

748
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: voted for Trump than had voted for him the first

749
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: time around. Thank goodness that we had Joe Biden and

750
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris able to win a big popular vote. But Sophie,

751
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: if you look at the electoral college, it was just

752
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: about as close as it had been in my race,

753
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: where I won more votes but lost the electoral college.

754
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: President Biden won the electoral college by a thin margin

755
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 1: and won a lot more votes in the popular election.

756
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: So we have a lot of work to do. And

757
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: it is scary to me that this deliberate misinformation has

758
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: such a life online and people believe it. I mean,

759
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 1: I've looked at some of the anti vax sites and

760
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 1: listened to some of the people, and they're they're buying

761
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: into total falsehoods about vaccinations. Why they would believe somebody

762
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 1: who on Facebook is trying to sell them vitamins as

763
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: opposed to the whole you know, scientific establishment who's only

764
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: trying to get them vaccinated. I don't understand, but we

765
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: know it's a real problem community, the whole medical community. Yeah,

766
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: it's really crazy. But see, but what you're doing, what

767
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: what everybody's trying to do to sort of bring you know,

768
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,760
Speaker 1: more I shall we say fact based communications to people.

769
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: You know, we have to do everything we can, but

770
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: we also have to reign in the platforms. There has

771
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 1: to be a concerted effort to try to uh stop

772
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: the dissemination of harmful, untrue information. Yeah. I think it's

773
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: so incredibly important the facts and the way we communicate them,

774
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: the way that we communicate nuance and experience, the way

775
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 1: that we advocate for people as we talk about these things,

776
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: these movements we are a part of which are having

777
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: a new life. The fight for voting rights, the conversations

778
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: we are having about gender and me to the conversations

779
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: we're having about what race means in America, all of

780
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: us standing up to say black lives matter. What has

781
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: been some of your learning in in how to exist

782
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 1: in these new versions of conversations you've been a part

783
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,919
Speaker 1: of for decades. You know you, and you don't say

784
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: this publicly, which I really respect, But one of the

785
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: things I know about you is that you have this

786
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: incredible group of women, your best friends, who have been

787
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: in your life for a long time, and many of

788
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 1: those women who have been in your life for decades

789
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: are Black women, brilliant, powerful black women. And as an

790
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 1: expert in policy who can talk about gender, race, oppression,

791
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 1: the economy for women, what has your person all work

792
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: been as a white woman, as a friend to the

793
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 1: black women in your life, as a woman who wants

794
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 1: to do her learning to then use your incredible platform

795
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: and be an advocate out in the public sector. That's

796
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: a great question. I have been blessed by having the

797
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 1: best friends. I could not have probably done what I've

798
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: done over all these years without having an incredibly supportive

799
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: network of friends, and among them are some of the

800
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 1: most amazing women I've ever known, who are African American

801
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: and who have such courage and such determination in their

802
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: own personal lives that I have learned from endlessly. I

803
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 1: have to say it is a constant reminder, and it

804
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: sounds maybe overly simplistic, but when I read about the

805
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: racial slurs, the dog whistles, the effort to suppress the

806
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 1: vote of black Georgians, which is what's going on in

807
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 1: the State of Georgia right now, I see somebody like

808
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: Stacy Abram's just getting up and you know, fighting on.

809
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,479
Speaker 1: I think a lot about my friends, my friends from

810
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: college and law school, my young adulthood, my chief of

811
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: staff in the White House, my chief of staff in

812
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:22,760
Speaker 1: the State Department, women who I not only respect, but love,

813
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: and just It's hard for me to grasp how these

814
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:33,399
Speaker 1: amazing human beings can be stereotyped, can be racialized, can

815
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 1: be diminished. But I have to say, the most stark

816
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: thing I've done in the last few months is to

817
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: read this incredible book called Caste by Isabel Wilkerson. It's

818
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: so painful to read. I I I love to read,

819
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 1: and I do it all the time. I could read

820
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: about thirty thirty five pages and I'd have to put

821
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: it down because what she does is something I had

822
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: personally never adequately considered. And that is make the case

823
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: that just as we look at India with its cast

824
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: system that goes back thousands of years, we look at

825
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: Nazi Germany with the imposition of a caste system that

826
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: made it illegal to be Jewish and all that we

827
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 1: know that came from that. But we did that for

828
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: four hundred years of slavery, and then we fought a

829
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: civil war over it, and then we had a brief

830
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: period where maybe we could have reconciled and come to

831
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:49,479
Speaker 1: grips with our original sin. But unfortunately Reconstruction didn't last

832
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: that long, and when it ended, it was replaced by

833
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: horrific abuse and oppression of Black Americans, not just in

834
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 1: the South but throughout our country and the Jim Crow

835
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:09,760
Speaker 1: era and then finally the Civil Rights Legislation, which tried

836
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: to impose a sense of equality. Um just you know,

837
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: the efforts to amend the Constitution after the Civil War

838
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: with fifteen Amendment and all of that you know, it

839
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: wasn't enough. People kept ignoring it and getting around it.

840
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: So then long comes to Civil Rights Act and the

841
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:31,439
Speaker 1: Voting Rights Act, and when people thought, okay, we're back

842
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:35,959
Speaker 1: on the right track. We're going to forge this unified society,

843
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 1: there was this constant undercurrent of no, we're not No,

844
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: we're turning the clock back. We're not about to accept this.

845
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 1: And then we elect a black president and we think,

846
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is it. We're in the Promised Land.

847
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 1: And underneath the surface, as I saw in the ten campaign,

848
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: there's just so much you know, negativity and reaction. He's

849
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,280
Speaker 1: a Muslim, he isn't born in this country. He's a communist,

850
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: He's this, he's that. And what Isabel Wilkerson explains is

851
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: how deep this idea of cast is. And it goes

852
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 1: back to your point about privilege if you are and

853
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: what she calls the dominant cast, which is, you know,

854
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 1: white people just despite whatever our economic standing might be,

855
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: but all white people. And the great sadness that poor

856
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 1: white people were told, well, you may be poor, but

857
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 1: you're you know, in the dominant cast. Therefore be grateful

858
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: and sustain the systemic racism. And now we're back into

859
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 1: this debate again, and reading that book is so heartbreaking.

860
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: She does an amazing job of kind of explaining the inexplicable,

861
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: but it just shows that this struggle is not over

862
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: and we all have a role to play. And I

863
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: I look at my very brave African American friends and

864
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: how they just put one ft in front of the other.

865
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: You know, they do their work, they stand up and

866
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: speak out, they support each other and those in their circles.

867
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: But they know it's not over. I mean, you know,

868
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 1: they lift an eyebrow, they shake their head. They know

869
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,319
Speaker 1: that you still have to sit your you know, your

870
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 1: children down and tell them to be careful when they

871
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: go out into the world. And we're watching the trial

872
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 1: over the murder of George Floyd, and it was heartbreaking

873
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 1: to hear the testimony of everybody who witnessed it. And

874
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: the only defense is to somehow try to paint George

875
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 1: Floyd as somebody who, you know, what should have been killed.

876
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,720
Speaker 1: Is that their defense? That seems to be their defense.

877
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: And why is that? Because underneath the surface there's this

878
00:53:55,520 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: constant drumbeat of you know, dominance. And so yeah, we'll see,

879
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 1: we'll see where we end up. But there's a lot

880
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: for all of us to, you know, try to come

881
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 1: to grips with and hopefully be reconcilers, not you know,

882
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: not dividers. I think something that just constantly strikes me

883
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: as so inspiring about you is that no matter your

884
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,800
Speaker 1: levels of expertise, the rooms you've been in, the people

885
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: you've sat with, you're always willing to learn more, and

886
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 1: you share your resources to do so with all of us.

887
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: And I spoke to you in President Clinton about this

888
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,760
Speaker 1: near the end of our interview in Vancouver, talking about

889
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 1: how you've never lost your willingness to learn for communities,

890
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 1: to learn from communities, to change for the better. You

891
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 1: are you are geared towards progress. And I think about

892
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 1: all the great things you've done in your life, and

893
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: I was struck by something you said in the dock.

894
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 1: You said someone asked you once, what do you want

895
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: on your tombstone? And you said she was neither as

896
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 1: good or as bad as people say, And I, certainly

897
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,959
Speaker 1: you know, I just loved it. It made me laugh

898
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 1: and I and I thought, you've done so many things.

899
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,240
Speaker 1: You lead the kind of life that makes people think

900
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: even now about how you will be remembered in history books,

901
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: you know, in generations to come. Do you feel like

902
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,799
Speaker 1: you know what that first line of your you know,

903
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: memorium might be, has it been written, or is the

904
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: biggest thing that you are ever going to do still

905
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 1: ahead of you? Because I feel like you have a

906
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: lot in store for us. Well, I hope you're right,

907
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:40,359
Speaker 1: because I get up every day trying to figure out

908
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: how I can make a difference, how I can stand

909
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:45,799
Speaker 1: up and speak out, where I can use my platform

910
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: to try to help people. So, yeah, I'm going to

911
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: keep doing that. I have no idea, and I don't

912
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: stop to think about it a lot, because it's all

913
00:55:54,960 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 1: a churn and we're living through such unpredictable certain times

914
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 1: right now. I don't know how all of it's going

915
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 1: to play out. I don't know how we're going to

916
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: bring our country back together. I don't know how we're

917
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 1: going to persuade people who believe the most ridiculous falsehoods

918
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: that you know, there's something called truth and let's try

919
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: to find it together. We can still disagree about what

920
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: we do, but you know, in a democracy, and in

921
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: such a pluralistic society as ours, you can't have everybody

922
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 1: going off in the different directions that is going to

923
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 1: weaken us, and it will you know, people worry about

924
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,919
Speaker 1: all the pie grow. Well, I can tell you one thing.

925
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: The pie will shrink if we do not unite and

926
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 1: if we don't deal with the problems ahead of us,

927
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: whether it's climate change or public health, or public education,

928
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,280
Speaker 1: or economic inequality, whatever it might be. And I really

929
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:54,760
Speaker 1: give big, big applause to the President and the Vice president.

930
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 1: I think, you know, Biden and Harris are trying really,

931
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: really hard. And I loved somethinging that President Biden said

932
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,280
Speaker 1: in his press conference because you know, the press, sadly

933
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: is always trying to pit us against each other, and

934
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: that doesn't help in this big effort to try to

935
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 1: bring people together. So, yes, are the Republicans in office

936
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: against what President Biden is doing. Yeah, I mean, unfortunately

937
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 1: they think that's the only way that they're going to

938
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 1: get elected and reelected. But what he said was, yeah,

939
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: but the people are behind us. You know, we have

940
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: bipartisan support for the American Rescue Plan. He will have

941
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 1: bipartisan support for the infrastructure plan. And what's great is

942
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: that he's not you know, he's been around a while.

943
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 1: He understands, don't get caught up in the small stuff.

944
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: And frankly, a lot of the games that are played

945
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: on the other side are terribly small. Aim bigger, have

946
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 1: a bigger vision. So I'm really crossing every finger and

947
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 1: toe that we're going to get through this and we're

948
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 1: gonna show people that guess what government can work. It

949
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: can help put people to work, It can help lift

950
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 1: you and your children out of poverty, it can help

951
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 1: you get vaccinated. There are things we can do together,

952
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: and we are, as I said in my campaign, stronger together.

953
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: So that's what I'm hoping, Sophia and boy I pray

954
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: about it all the time. You know, let's get back together.

955
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 1: Let's all be on the American team again, not the

956
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: red team or the blue team or whatever. We divide

957
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 1: ourselves and into that. Um My favorite thing to ask

958
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 1: everyone who comes on the show, as it is the

959
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: title of the show, is whether it is something personal

960
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:42,479
Speaker 1: or professional, or or political. What feels like a work

961
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 1: in progress in your life right now? Hillary Rodham Clinton,

962
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 1: That's really a great question. And I want to say

963
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 1: every single thing that you just mentioned does so by that,

964
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: I mean I think all of us have had to

965
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 1: really dig deep this past year personally, what's really important

966
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: to us? How do we keep ourselves going? Where do

967
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: we find resilience? And I've been facing up to that.

968
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm somebody who's constantly on the go. I'm

969
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: on an airplane all the time, I'm out in public

970
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 1: all the time, and no I've been home. And how

971
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: do I find meaning and purpose? How do I bring

972
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: you know, that joy to every day? So on the

973
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 1: personal level, that's been something I've thought a lot about.

974
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: On the political level, as we were just discussing, I

975
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: did everything I could to help elect Joe Biden and

976
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris and other people running for office. I've got

977
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: a little group that I started called Onward Together, and

978
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 1: we support candidates and causes. I am doubling down and

979
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: I am particularly focused with some of my partners on disinformation,

980
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 1: what we do to rain in the overwhelming power of

981
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 1: the tech platforms. So politically I'm involved. I'm talking to

982
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: people in the White House, people in the Congress all

983
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 1: the time about um. You know, they call me to

984
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 1: ask for advice or I call them to offer an

985
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 1: idea because this is such a moment and given our

986
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 1: crazy political system, We've got to get a lot done

987
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: this year. And then I guess, finally on a on

988
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 1: a more philosophical level in terms of public what role

989
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 1: can I and everybody that I can touch play and

990
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 1: trying to get the poison out of the system, and

991
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: trying to find ways to connect with people we do

992
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 1: not agree with. What are the public forums? You know,

993
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 1: I have a podcast, and on my podcast, I've talked

994
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 1: to a lot of really interesting people and I asked

995
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 1: them what can we do to try to unite us?

996
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 1: And you know, there's been a thread running through and

997
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,439
Speaker 1: that is we have to tell a different story about

998
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: who we are and who America is, and we have

999
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: to get people to buy into a story about our

1000
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 1: common future. So publicly, how do we do that? And

1001
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 1: how do we bring people together and and you know,

1002
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 1: try to build something stronger because I think young people,

1003
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 1: you know, whether it was in the Black Lives Matter

1004
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 1: marches or what they're doing on social media, you know,

1005
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 1: they don't want to go back. They don't want to

1006
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: live in the world of you know, vitriol and finger

1007
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 1: pointing and scapegoating. They want something bigger and better. So

1008
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: how do we help get that and move it forward.

1009
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: I love it. I'm here for it in any way

1010
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 1: I can never help. I know you are, I know

1011
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 1: you are my friend, you are. You are a wonderful clarion,

1012
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 1: uh you know voice about how we should be treating

1013
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 1: each other, and I thank you for that. I'm just

1014
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 1: so deeply grateful. Thank you for everything, and thank you

1015
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 1: for what is no doubt ahead. Thank you, my dear. Well,

1016
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: let's stay in touch. I love talking to Take care