1 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a 5 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to 6 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 1: find a therapist in your area, visit our website at 7 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love 8 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not 9 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a 10 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, Happy New Year, and 11 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me for Session three party 12 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right 13 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: into our conversation after a word from our sponsors. 14 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 2: I'm six five four three two one. 15 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 1: I'm so excited to welcome you into twenty twenty four 16 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: by kicking off the third edition of the Therapy for 17 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: Black Girls January Jumpstart mini series. All month long, we'll 18 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: host conversations with talented black women leaders across creative and 19 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: professional mediums to assist you in putting the p and 20 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: prioritizing your personal growth. If you've been holding back on 21 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: doing you this is your sign to jump headfirst into 22 00:01:55,800 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: the possibilities of a new year. They're an endless amount 23 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: of studies that show how hobbies can be beneficial to 24 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: our mental health and wellness. However, it can be understandably 25 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: difficult to choose what hobby to take on or even 26 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 1: know where to start. If this sounds like you, then 27 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: don't for it, because in this first part of our 28 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: January Jumpstart mini series, we're highlighting sewing and breaking down 29 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: everything you need to know in order to make it 30 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: your new year hobby. Joining us for this conversation is 31 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: Lisa Wolford, a scholar, soist, community organizer, and podcaster. She's 32 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: the founder of Black Women's Stitch, the sewing group where 33 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: Black lives Matter. She's also the host and producer of 34 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: Stitch Please, a weekly audio podcast that centers black women, girls, 35 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: and films in sewing. Lisa and I chatted about the 36 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: supplies you should invest in as a beginning soist, how 37 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: you can make time for sewing in your busy life, 38 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: and how sewing can teach you less and self compassion 39 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 1: and forgiveness. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, 40 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: please share it with us on social media using the 41 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: hashtag TBG in session, or join us over in the 42 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: Sister Circle to talk more about the episode. You can 43 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. 44 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: Here's our conversation. Well, thank you so much for joining 45 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: us today, Lisa. 46 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 2: I am delighted at honor to be here. Thank you 47 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: for having me. 48 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: Absolutely so. There is quite an inspiring story behind Black 49 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: Women's Stitch. Can you tell us the backstory about how 50 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: you started? 51 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 2: I started because I built what I needed. This was 52 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: an example of coming together and transforming pain into a 53 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: beautiful community that has helped us stay in me as 54 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: well as the black women and black creatives in generally. 55 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: I started Black Women's Stitch in the wake of my 56 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: time as an organizer in Charlottesville, Virginia during a very 57 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 2: vicious and powerful incursion of white supremacist violence in the 58 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 2: summer of twenty seventeen. Charlottesville, Virginia had a clan or 59 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 2: Nazi rally every month throughout that entire summer. We had 60 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: a torch rally that was unreported in May, we had 61 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 2: a small rally in June. The clan came in July, 62 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 2: and in August we had the largest white supremacist rally 63 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 2: in US history up to that date. They were coming 64 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 2: to protest the removal of the Roberty Lee statues, but 65 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: they were really coming to defend their white right to 66 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 2: control public space. I joined a Black Lives Matter group 67 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 2: during that time, and we did lots of organizing. We 68 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 2: would go to meetings, we held teachings, we did lots 69 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: of different things. And the reason I chose to do 70 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: it was because I just could not believe that in 71 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 2: this day and age of twenty seventeen, that I would 72 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 2: have to tell my one hundred year old grandma that 73 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: I had to go protest the Klan. It was appalling, 74 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: and so Black Women Stitch as a very long story. 75 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 2: We started with, in some ways devastation. It started because 76 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: after surviving a white supremacist terror attack that happened on 77 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 2: August eleventh and twelfth. August eleventh, you might recall, was 78 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 2: what was called the Tiki Torch Rally. That's when white 79 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 2: supremacists marched on the campus of the University of Virginia 80 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 2: and attack students and community members. That night. As that 81 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 2: was happening, I was locked in a church across the street. 82 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: I was doing an interview with Cornell West for Sir 83 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 2: Joerna's magazine and about resisting fascism or the imperative to 84 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: do so. When someone rushed in and said, the Klan 85 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: is outside with torches, stay here, and we had to 86 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 2: eventually evacuate the building. But that was just a precursor 87 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 2: to what happened the next day, which was brawls in 88 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 2: the streets and a state of emergency being declared, and 89 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 2: then the white supremacists were pretty much abolished. They got 90 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 2: kicked out, they had to cancel their event, and we 91 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 2: thought we had won because they were being turned away 92 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 2: and it was our community. My kids went to that 93 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 2: library where they were doing all these terrible things, and 94 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 2: so it felt like an act of love and an 95 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 2: act of community defense to be out in the streets 96 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 2: that day. That was my position. And as we were 97 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: walking and preparing to turn into one of the narrow 98 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 2: streets on the downtown mall, that was when the white 99 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: supremacist drove his car through and hit all of the 100 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 2: counter protesters. I was standing there at the intersection when 101 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 2: that happened, and it was utter chaos. And so after 102 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 2: this event, after trauma and nightmare and loss. I made 103 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 2: the decision, and in retrospect, a bad one, to go 104 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 2: to a quilt event that I had been attending for 105 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: the last fifteen years or so. It was out of town, 106 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 2: and when I arrived at the event, I was always 107 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 2: the only black person in that space. And in the 108 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 2: past it wasn't a problem. It wasn't a problem when 109 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: my father passed away, suddenly they made me a quilt. 110 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 2: They were very supportive and very kind. But after this 111 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: event and my work with anti racists and anti fascists organizing, 112 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 2: their mood changed. And when I arrived, I was told 113 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 2: that Charlottesville was not to be discussed. Now. It was 114 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 2: not to be discussed because they were concerned about my feelings. 115 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 2: It was that they didn't really feel like being bothered. 116 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 2: And I had always had these inklings, you know how 117 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 2: you have that little nudge in the back of your neck, like, 118 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: I don't know, you hear somebody say something sideways, the 119 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: things that we now call microaggressions. That was something that was, 120 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: you know, common, I was used to it ain't no 121 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 2: thing but a chicken wing. Just brush it off, just 122 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: like everything else. But it really came to a head 123 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: at this time and it helped me remember them saying 124 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 2: things like, well, I don't know why people complain. If 125 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 2: you just comply, the cops wouldn't do anything. And these 126 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 2: were the exact same women who told me that they 127 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 2: told cops to hurry up and give them the damn ticket. 128 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 2: So those rules only applied to black people, they never 129 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 2: applied to them. And so after this event, I attended 130 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 2: some of the people. Many were very kind. The organizer 131 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: of that event was pretty furious with me for reasons 132 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 2: I never understood beyond just her racism. And I got 133 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 2: home and about maybe two or three weeks later, I 134 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: see this envelope in the mail with my name on it. 135 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 2: And when I open the envelope, inside is a check 136 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 2: that I have written to pay for the next year's event. 137 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 2: That check was returned to me. Now, my dumb self, 138 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: I say, oh, maybe the event has been canceled and 139 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 2: it's just not happening anymore, and that's why my check 140 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: was returned. So, like myself an eternal optimist, I contact 141 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 2: the one person whose phone number I have and I say, hey, 142 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 2: do you know if this is still going on? It's 143 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 2: really strange. My check was returned and the person says 144 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: to me, No, Lisa, I don't think it was canceled, 145 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 2: and I think it was because you broke the rule. 146 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 2: The rule was that Charlottesville was not to be discussed 147 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 2: and you disgusted. Now trust me when I say I 148 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 2: did not walk into this environment preparing to lecture these 149 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 2: people about the dangers of anti fascism. I came because 150 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 2: I wanted to sew some quilt blocks and that was 151 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 2: what I wanted to work on and did. But that 152 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 2: showed me a lot. It showed me a lot. And 153 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 2: it's a beautiful quote that says that which breaks your 154 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 2: heart can correct your vision. Because when I tell you, 155 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: I was so sad, doctor Joy, I was so sad 156 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 2: that these people had kicked me out. I was so sad, 157 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: like on top of the trauma of the terror attack, 158 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 2: now I have this, and so I thought something that 159 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 2: I loved was taken away from me. And after I 160 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 2: got finished being sad, then I got embarrassed because it 161 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 2: made me wonder who did these people think I was 162 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 2: all this time? Who did they think that I would 163 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 2: sit idly by while to me, my children's lives are 164 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: in danger from these white supremacists who think they can 165 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 2: own our community. And so so that was when I 166 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 2: hit the decision point, and it said, I will never 167 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 2: again exchange my humanity in order to do what I love. 168 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 2: And so I created Black Women's Stitch. I started just 169 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 2: by posting on Instagram in twenty eighteen. I kept posting 170 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 2: and it just came from there. I wanted it to 171 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 2: be black from a distance, so that people saw that 172 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 2: this was what we are, this is what we did, 173 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 2: and I called it Black Women's Stitch, the sewing group 174 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 2: where Black Lives Matter. That was what it was for, 175 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 2: and anyone else could come and participate as they get 176 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 2: in where you fit in kind of thing, but it 177 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 2: was definitely meant to center and celebrate the black experience 178 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 2: in sewing so that we didn't have to be the 179 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 2: lonely onlies in many of these spaces. So again, that 180 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 2: was a very long answer to your question, but that's 181 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 2: how I got here. 182 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: No, thank you for sharing that. I appreciate all of 183 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: that history. I don't even know that I knew that 184 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: there were all those other rallies that summer, right so, 185 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: I think, of course the one that everybody heard about 186 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: was in August, but it sounds like there had been 187 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: a long summer of really antagonizing. 188 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, absolutely, And one of the things we kept 189 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 2: seeing was among white folks in particular, was this idea 190 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 2: that if we ignore them, they will go away. And 191 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 2: a lot of it was fighting apathy. And I finally 192 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 2: got to the point where I said, you know what, 193 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 2: you don't get to tell me how I resist this. 194 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,479 Speaker 2: You have no skin in the game, literally and figuratively. 195 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: You don't get to tell me to do nothing, because 196 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 2: nothing is what you are doing. And so it definitely 197 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 2: means that Black Women's Stitch started in a place of 198 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 2: resistance and then eventually became a place of respite because 199 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 2: we do more than survive. 200 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: So tell me about your earliest memories sewing. Do you 201 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: remember when the first time you picked up a thread 202 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: and needle? Was it something that came easy to you. 203 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 2: It's so funny you say that, because my mother laughs 204 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 2: at me to this day. My mother sewed, my grandmother sewed, 205 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 2: my grandmother's grandmother sewed. All of us are from Florida. 206 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 2: I have some cousins that are very into genealogy and 207 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: they found all this information and my mother would sew 208 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 2: are closed during the summertime. She made doll clothes. She 209 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 2: made everything, and I wanted nothing to do with it. 210 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 2: I remember sewing being a kid and being stuck with 211 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 2: pins and having to stand still, and it's like my 212 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 2: mother was also a really wonderful baker, and yet my 213 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 2: sister loved nothing more than Public's cupcakes. That was me 214 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 2: as well. It was, yes, you can sew, but I 215 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 2: really want the guest jeans Jordash jeans from bird Eyes 216 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 2: or from Jordan Marsh or wherever. I was not all 217 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: interested in it, even though my mother was and still 218 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 2: is if she feels like being bothered. Is a very 219 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 2: talented seist and very talented with the sewing machine. I 220 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 2: chose sewing when I was in graduate school because I 221 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 2: needed something I could finish when I was working on 222 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 2: my dissertation. I think I am a slow writer, and 223 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 2: so it felt like, Okay, I got the course work done, 224 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: I'm doing my tag, but this dissertation is taken an eternity, 225 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 2: and it felt good to start with a piece of 226 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: fabric and then end up with a duvet cover. And 227 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 2: so I find sewing in that way to be powerfully transformative, 228 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 2: and it really puts the means of creation in the 229 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: hands of people. And so that goes to my overall 230 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 2: idea about seeing sewing as a liberatory action that you 231 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 2: can with Niela and thread radically transform something into something 232 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 2: else and make it what you want. And I find 233 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 2: that really powerful. 234 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: I love that so first. I love that she started 235 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: in grad school and what a powerful example of being 236 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: able to do something else during probably a very stressful time, right. 237 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: And so this idea that like, Okay, this dissertation is 238 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: stressing me out, but I can finish this thing, right, 239 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: like I can start with fabric and create a duvet. 240 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: I think that that's beautiful. And we know that there's 241 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: so much research now. You may not have known this 242 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: at the time, but there's so much research that talks 243 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: about like doing things with your hand and being able 244 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: to have many projects like this, and how this is 245 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: actually good for our mental health. 246 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I absolutely believe it to be true. And one 247 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: of my favorite historians she was at Princeton. Her name 248 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: is Nell Irvin Painter. She has done a ton of books, 249 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: including some excellent research on so journal truth and right 250 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 2: now she's writing a book on knitting. But she is 251 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 2: a huge, big time historian at Princeton, and she would 252 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: go to historical conferences and sit in the audience and knit. 253 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: And no one is expecting someone as big time as 254 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 2: her to be sitting and knitting, but that's what she did, 255 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: and she's really amazing and very well regarded. But the 256 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 2: idea that she would bring and could bring a needlecraft 257 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 2: into a space that is seen as academic, I think 258 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 2: for me, I always thought that was really powerful and 259 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 2: just another great thing about her as a historian. 260 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: So, once you finally reclaimed your love and your family's love, 261 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: it sounds like for sewing, what kinds of obstacles have 262 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: you faced in kind of learning how to sew again 263 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: for yourself? 264 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 2: I think one of the big obstacles has been understanding 265 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 2: that many of the patterns that we have today, the 266 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 2: sewing patterns, were not intended for the body that I have. 267 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 2: In fact, they're not intended for many bodies. I've been 268 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: doing some research and discovered that many of the measurements 269 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 2: that we have today are based on a study from 270 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 2: nineteen forty one of fourteen thousand white women. And if 271 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 2: you look at the stuff and the report that you 272 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 2: can find at the USDA website, it comes down to 273 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 2: these very narrow prescriptions because they deliberately excluded measurements from 274 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 2: non white women. And this is something people have talked 275 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 2: about in other contexts about why American sizing for women's 276 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 2: clothing is just so random, and that all that comes 277 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 2: from having something called a fit model, which is where 278 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 2: you make one size and you can then scale up 279 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 2: or down. But they don't really fit anybody very well. 280 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 2: So one of the obstacles that I've found is learning 281 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 2: to modify these patterns and to maintain a sense of 282 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 2: bodily optimism and integrity, because the pattern will have you 283 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 2: believe that something is wrong with you, when in fact, 284 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 2: something is wrong with the pattern. And so that was 285 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 2: one of the obstacles. But after I think I figured 286 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 2: that out and found the patterns that I liked and 287 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 2: found the pieces that I liked, then was off to 288 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 2: the races. It was no turning back. And now I've 289 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 2: got hundreds upon hundreds of patterns and notebooks and binders 290 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 2: and notes and everything like that to kind of help 291 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 2: me get started. So I'm always encouraging everybody to sew. 292 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 2: I do believe it is something that anyone can do. 293 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 2: I think you just have to find what's right for 294 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 2: you and no one has to do it. But I 295 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 2: think nothing is beyond you. And I'd like to think 296 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 2: that everything you are wearing right now was made by someone. 297 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 2: Why not you? 298 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: Okay, So you're gonna have to take us back through this, Lisa, 299 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: So how do we find patterns that we might like? 300 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: So my mom also sold a lot when I was 301 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: a kid, and I could remember us going to the store, 302 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: and like, I think McCall's right, was that the pattern maker? 303 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 2: That's what? Okay? 304 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: So the call still in business? Like how are people 305 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: finding patterns at this point? 306 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: Listen, the calls is in business. But something you might 307 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 2: like to know, and I think that your audience might appreciate, 308 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 2: is that there is a new pattern line that has 309 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 2: started and it was created by a woman of color 310 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 2: named Mimi g. They're called No Me Patterns. They are 311 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 2: more size inclusive and most of their designers are people 312 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 2: of color, including folks who are Atlanta based soists and designers. 313 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 2: So you can find work by Aronica B Cole, for example, 314 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 2: and she's based in Atlanta, The Corny Rainbow, These really bright, fun, 315 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 2: interesting designs. I think the No Me Patterns started in 316 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. I believe very new, very new, but 317 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 2: they have really made some powerful contributions to the mainline 318 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 2: of the pattern industry. In addition, a lot of independent 319 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: people have individually transferred their frustration with the mainstream industry 320 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 2: by making their own form of patterns. So you can 321 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 2: get patterns that are meant for larger bodies, that are 322 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 2: designed in style with things like biometrics in mind, and 323 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 2: so you can get some really well fitting garments regardless 324 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 2: of your size. And I think that that is one 325 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: of the things about sewing that I love. I love 326 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 2: that there is a way to make something do what 327 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 2: you want and need it to do without having to 328 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 2: do too much. And so the patterns themselves become a 329 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:25,239 Speaker 2: good way to translate your own vision for yourself. So, 330 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 2: just for one quick example, I talked with a wonderful person. 331 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 2: Her name's Martha McIntosh, and she talks about how she 332 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: started sewing, and she's a plus sized sister, and she 333 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 2: wanted this Ankara print dress. So she contacted the designer 334 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 2: and sent in her measurements and the designer says, Okay, sure, 335 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 2: I can make you this dress, but because of your size, 336 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 2: it will be an extra three hundred and fifty dollars 337 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,239 Speaker 2: and she said no, thank you, and she took that 338 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty dollars and bought a sewing machine 339 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 2: and has never looked back. And when I tell you, 340 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 2: the looks that she makes are fire. She sews carnival costumes, 341 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,239 Speaker 2: she sews her travel wardrobe, all of these things. I 342 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 2: love the way that a sewing machine can turn a 343 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 2: no into a yes. 344 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,719 Speaker 1: Okay, Liza, now you're getting us all inspired. But I 345 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: am thinking I'm not somebody who is like not. I 346 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: don't feel like I'm quite inclined to be able to 347 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,959 Speaker 1: like look at a pattern and like have it come 348 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 1: out to be something that's actually wearable. So if people 349 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: are interested in starting to sew, where should we start, Like, 350 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: what do we need to get started? 351 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 2: I think you should determine what is your learning style. 352 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 2: Some people learn best from YouTube university, and some of 353 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 2: the people that I mentioned, like Ironica Cole, for example, 354 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,239 Speaker 2: has a YouTube channel and you can go there and 355 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 2: you can look and you can learn. People have broken 356 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 2: down lots of different steps. And so if you're someone 357 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 2: that likes to have a video and you can pause 358 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 2: it and do side by side, then that's one way. 359 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 2: There's also people that are teaching online on social media. 360 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 2: There's a place called the Black Sewing Network and they 361 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 2: live on TikTok and they do so alongs every single day, 362 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 2: and you can go on there even if you're not 363 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 2: going to get on screen or to join them. You 364 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 2: can be in the comments and ask questions. You can 365 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 2: watch them as they work through and make mistakes, and 366 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 2: so that's another way to think about it. There's also 367 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 2: local in person ways to meet up and do sewing. 368 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 2: So if you have a sewing shop or a small 369 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 2: quilt shop or even a Joeanne Fabrics, sometimes they'll have 370 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 2: sewing shops inside those stores that offer lessons. In addition, 371 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 2: places like the four H Club, different City and County 372 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 2: extension programs, Scrap RVA, or Scrap Lanta in Atlanta, these 373 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 2: folks might also have different programs. Anyone that's selling sewing 374 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 2: machines tends to have sewing lessons, so you don't have 375 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 2: to start alone. You could also find people that do 376 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 2: one to one sessions online. So I know a lot 377 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 2: of folks through Black Women's Stitch that are offering someone 378 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 2: like Nicki Griffins, for example, who is also based in Atlanta. 379 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 2: You can sign up and do a genes making class, 380 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 2: bra making class, all of these different things, and they'll 381 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 2: work with you side to side and help you with 382 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 2: any questions or concerns you have. So I think there's 383 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 2: lots of ways to learn. It's just a matter of 384 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 2: finding what works best for you. 385 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: Okay, more from our conversation after the break. So what 386 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: are some of the basic supplies we need to get started? 387 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 2: I think the basic supplies is a machine that is reliable, 388 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 2: a sewing machine that is reliable, and that means what 389 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 2: you want the sewing machine to do, because the sewing 390 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 2: machines now can do so many more things than when 391 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 2: I was a girl. They can cut the threads for you, 392 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 2: they cannot them for you, they can thread the machine 393 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 2: for you. It does all of these things so that 394 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 2: you can get a good feeling of satisfaction. So I 395 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 2: would say a good sewing machine, a good pair of scissors, 396 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 2: and a good pair of snips, which are little tiny 397 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 2: scissors that help you cut little tiny threads off. So 398 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 2: those are some very basic things just to get started 399 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 2: and then decide what kind of project you want to make. 400 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 2: Are you someone who is good with well? Let me 401 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 2: start with a tote bag just to get myself started. 402 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: Do something simple. It has four seams. A pillowcase is 403 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 2: another very easy, especially if you make it out of satin. 404 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 2: We all love and need a satin line pillowcase. You 405 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 2: can get some satin and make you a pillowcase, and 406 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 2: that gives you a good feeling of satisfaction and surprising. 407 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 2: Making underwear is one of the easiest things you can do, 408 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 2: doctor Joy. It is so easy. 409 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: I'm laughing, Lisa, because you have taken me back to 410 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: my home economics class where our project was to make 411 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: a pair of boxer shorts. 412 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 2: Wasn't really Oh my god, I had no idea. 413 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: I was like, what a random choice? But now I 414 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: hear you saying that that's a good starter project. So 415 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: that's probably why we did. 416 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 2: It exactly because it's practical and even if you don't 417 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 2: wear them as boxers, you can wear them just around 418 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 2: the house to kick around or whatever. And I think 419 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 2: it's some kind of really special feeling to put on 420 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 2: clothes that you have made with your own hands. And 421 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 2: it reminds me of that Bible verse. I'm gonna forget 422 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 2: where it's from, but it's something about putting on the 423 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 2: full armor of God. And sometimes I feel like when 424 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 2: I am going into these spaces where I am not 425 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 2: sure how I may or may not be received, I 426 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 2: always take care to put on something that's gonna make 427 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: me feel good, and typically the clothes that I make. 428 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 2: Since I usually only wear clothes that I made, it's 429 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 2: gonna be that and it reminds me as I'm wearing 430 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 2: it that I can do hard things. It's reminding me 431 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 2: as I wear it that I have the power of 432 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 2: transformation in my own hands. And I think that that 433 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 2: is one of the reasons I find sewing to be 434 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 2: so empowering and really generative and overall encouraging for how 435 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 2: one wants to live. 436 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: Thank you for that. So what kind of budget should 437 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: we be thinking in term for a sewing machine? Like, 438 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: what's the cheapest sewing machine somebody could kind of get 439 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:19,959 Speaker 1: started with. 440 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 2: Well, you could get cheap ones. I know they sell 441 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 2: them at big box stores. The challenge with some of 442 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 2: those is that they are just not reliable. I think 443 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 2: one of the things that frustrates people is, Oh, this 444 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 2: machine is no good or the tension was off or 445 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 2: it never worked right, and you don't really have anybody 446 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 2: to complain about. You can either return it to the 447 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 2: store and get one just like it, or return it 448 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 2: to the store and go someplace else. I tend to 449 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 2: recommend that people do their best to work with a 450 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 2: local dealer where you can go in person and find 451 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 2: a machine that you want and somebody who will sit 452 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 2: down next to you to help you. And if they 453 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 2: don't do that, they'll have things like owners' classes. So 454 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 2: I would say you could do it an intro level machine. 455 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 2: I would say the low level would be about three 456 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 2: hundred up to five for a very basic starter machine. 457 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 2: It does not have a lot of bells and whistles, 458 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 2: and it doesn't really need to until you know what 459 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 2: you're interested in. I'm so glad you asked about price, 460 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 2: because I'm never sure how much people think sewing machines cost, 461 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 2: but a low cost sewing machine is about three hundred 462 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 2: to five hundred dollars. The machine that I use was 463 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 2: closer to six thousand dollars, and there are other machines 464 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 2: that start at ten, ten to fifteen thousand dollars for 465 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 2: a sewing machine. I do not recommend that anybody in 466 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 2: the world get that for their first sewing machine unless 467 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 2: you decide you hate it and then you want to 468 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 2: give it to me at a discount, I'll totally buy 469 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 2: it off you, and you can totally do it for 470 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 2: a few hundred dollars and buying good needles and those 471 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 2: kinds of things. And so for people looking to start 472 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 2: something just to see if they would like it, I 473 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 2: would say about three to five hundred to give yourself 474 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 2: a good start. Remember getting high quality thread because different 475 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 2: machines respond differently to different threads, high quality needles, all 476 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 2: of these things are things that are easy to acquire 477 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 2: and easy to maintain. And think of it as an investment. Yes, 478 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 2: you might be spending more than you anticipated, but what 479 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 2: you're going to be getting if it continues to be 480 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 2: reliable for you, is years and years of really good 481 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 2: use from that. And so even as you grow and 482 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 2: maybe add to your collection of machines, you might say, okay, 483 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 2: well I want to go up and get one that 484 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 2: has a few more features, or something that does this 485 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 2: a little more easily, or I want to add embroidery 486 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 2: or whatever, and so you have room to grow, but 487 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 2: I think you can get a very good starter machine 488 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 2: for between three and five hundred dollars. 489 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: Got it. So something else I think that makes people 490 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: a little hesitant to take up sewing is that it 491 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: feels like it's a math heavy kind of a hobby 492 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: and it feels very technical. So tell me how much 493 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: math and calculation is actually involved with sewing? 494 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 2: For me, none, Praise God, because if this was a 495 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 2: math heavy hobby, I would not be doing it. There 496 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 2: are some things just knowing about fractions. About something called 497 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 2: a seam allowance. That's where when you sew a stitch down, 498 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: to the left of that stitch will be your garment. 499 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 2: To the right of that stitch will be the allowance 500 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 2: that little tiny strip of fabric on the other side 501 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 2: of where your clothes are. That is the only thing 502 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 2: you need to be mindful of is your seam allowance 503 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 2: one quarter inch, which is what you use for quilting. 504 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 2: Is it three ace inch, which is what you use 505 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 2: in a lot of European and independent patterns, or is 506 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 2: it five eighths inch, which is what you use when 507 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: you're doing a standard McCall's type patterns. Almost all of 508 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 2: the McCalls patterns, buttery patterns, Vogue patterns, and Simplicity patterns 509 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 2: all use a five ace inch seam allowance, and so 510 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 2: in terms of math, that's pretty much the basics for 511 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 2: anyone who's getting started. Once you go into adjustments, that 512 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 2: math is more simple. So if I say, well, my 513 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 2: waist is this size, but this pattern is that size, 514 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 2: the difference between my waist and the pattern waste is 515 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 2: four inches, let me add four inches two inches in 516 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 2: the front and two inches in the back, and then 517 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 2: it'll fit me. So all the math I've ever done 518 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 2: has been quite simple. It is not fortunately a math 519 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 2: heavy type thing. It is something that once you read 520 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 2: the directions and understand what you're being asked to do. 521 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 2: And I have a friend who recommends Naomi P. Johnson says, 522 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 2: read the directions three times. I read them one good time, 523 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 2: and then I go back and look at it again 524 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 2: and again, and then I make mistakes, and then I 525 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 2: go back and look at the directions again. But you 526 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 2: really can do it with a pretty much an ABC. 527 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 2: And then, of course, in some ways mistakes are also 528 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 2: a gift. Mistakes are part of the learning process, and 529 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,239 Speaker 2: you should never feel bad about it mistakes. If it 530 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 2: doesn't work out, then you know what to do differently 531 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 2: for next time. So it's absolutely a pretty forgiving hobby. 532 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 2: If you make a mistake, you can just unsow it. 533 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 2: It's not like it's sewn in stone or something like that. 534 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 2: You can totally correct it, and then you can make 535 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 2: something and then decide, oh, I like this element, but 536 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 2: not that element, and then you can change it. 537 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: M mm hmm. So a huge part of you know, 538 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: a new year is goal setting and like trying new things. 539 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: What kinds of things should a beginning sow or have 540 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: to look forward to in terms of milestone, so like 541 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: in a month, in six months and a year, like 542 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: what kinds of bitchmarks might they be able to use 543 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: for themselves. 544 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 2: I really like that idea of documenting one sewing journey, 545 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 2: and so some of the things that I thought about 546 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 2: in my own journey was the first thing you make 547 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 2: for yourself that you're proud of, the first thing you 548 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 2: make for somebody else that you're proud of, the first 549 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 2: thing that you make for your kitchen that you're excited about, 550 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 2: the first thing that you make for your bedroom that 551 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 2: you're happy about, the first garment, the first pair of 552 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 2: pants that you're willing to wear outside of your house, 553 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 2: the first time that you're able to turn that Gordon 554 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 2: Gatrell into an actual wearable shirt. That's something to definitely celebrate. 555 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 2: So there's tons of milestones depending on the sewing you're 556 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 2: wanting to do. If you want to start with quilting, 557 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 2: if you want to start with home decorations you're interested in. 558 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 2: Curtains are expensive, but fabric is a lot less expensive, 559 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 2: and so if you can figure out how to make curtains, 560 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 2: you could save yourself a lot of money. It is 561 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 2: not often the case anymore that sewing will save you 562 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 2: money to make clothes. I think that between fast fashion 563 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 2: as well as big box stores, we can get clothes 564 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 2: for cheaper than I could sit down and make them. 565 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,719 Speaker 2: But what you cannot buy in the store are things 566 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 2: that are so unique to you, things that when I choose, 567 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 2: I might buy a pattern and my friend buys the 568 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 2: exact same pattern and we both make it. It looks 569 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 2: totally different because we've chosen different fabrics, Our bodies are different, 570 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 2: our styling is different, and so there really is a 571 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 2: great benefit to making pieces that uniquely reflect what your 572 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 2: creative process is and speak to your style. And I 573 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 2: think that that is something that as one goes through 574 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 2: the sewing journey. After you've gone through the pillowcases and 575 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 2: the baby bibs and the tote bags and the pull 576 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 2: on boxer shorts, and you know, all these different things, 577 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 2: you grow into a belief in your own competency. And 578 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 2: so trying different materials, sewing with a woven fabric versus 579 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 2: a knit fabric, so on, with something that's stretchy versus 580 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 2: something that's like denim. All of these are ways that 581 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 2: you can grow and share your sewing story as you're 582 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 2: moving through the process. And I think that is so 583 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,719 Speaker 2: wise to keep track of your milestones because it is, 584 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 2: in deed, a journey, and I think people progress through 585 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 2: this faster than they even imagine, especially if they get 586 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 2: the bug and they start to really love it. They 587 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,919 Speaker 2: move very quickly from one phase to the next. 588 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: Okay, Lisa, so you are a very busy sister, like 589 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: many of our community members, right, So when are you 590 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,919 Speaker 1: making time for sewing? And like what could that look 591 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: like for other people? Like when are they adding this 592 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 1: into their schedule? 593 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 2: So there's lots of different ways to go about it. 594 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 2: I find that for me, I'm a good nighttime person. 595 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 2: I find it relaxing. I find it like after a 596 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 2: long day, like of work, I'll come home and have 597 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 2: dinner and then say, like, rather than like sit in 598 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 2: front of the TV or watch Netflix, I will go 599 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 2: into the sewing room or I'll put the Netflix on 600 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 2: in the sewing room and I'll be watching and listening 601 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 2: and deciding what I want to sew next. There's also 602 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 2: a sister, Brittany J. Jones, who's also based in Atlanta. Oh, 603 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 2: y'all in Atlanta, now that I think of it, she 604 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 2: has this pro call thirty minutes to sew, and she 605 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 2: just does it, even in the middle of a busy workday. 606 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 2: She says, you know what, I got thirty minutes. She 607 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 2: will set a timer and put that timer next to 608 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 2: the sewing machine and will do nothing but sewing tasks 609 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 2: for those thirty minutes. And she's able to get a 610 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 2: lot made. And so I think about if you can 611 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 2: incorporate it into your daily life and schedule, that's gonna 612 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 2: look different for everybody. I have a friend who is 613 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 2: a planner, and she loves to plan, and so she'll 614 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,800 Speaker 2: look at her weekly planner and say, Okay, on Monday, 615 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 2: I will pick out the pattern. On Tuesday, I will 616 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 2: cut it out on Wednesday, I will lay out my fabric. 617 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 2: On Thursday, I will So it's really about choosing what 618 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 2: works best for your schedule. And now that my kids 619 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 2: are grown and pretty much out of the house, I 620 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 2: don't need to snatch nighttime hours anymore. But I got 621 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 2: so accustomed to that. Okay, the kids are asleep, now, 622 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 2: it's my time, and so that time translated into sewing 623 00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 2: time since they're grown now. So I think whatever works 624 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,360 Speaker 2: organically for your lifestyle, if it means, hey, I'm on 625 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 2: my lunch break at work, I'm going to pick out 626 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 2: a few patterns on the internet, I'm going to buy 627 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 2: some fabric or whatever. So that's how I tend to 628 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 2: kind of incorporate it. I do try to carve out 629 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 2: distinct time and try to protect that time, and that 630 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 2: if I can, I'll incorporate it while I'm also doing 631 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 2: other things. 632 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: Got it, Okay, So squeezing it in and making it time. 633 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: Like you said, we have thirty minutes to watch a 634 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 1: Netflix show, we could be doing that at the same 635 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: time as we're. 636 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 2: Sewing at the same time. Absolutely love it. 637 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:46,280 Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. So I imagine 638 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: that when people first start out sewing, they may run 639 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: into some hiccups, get a little frustrated. How do we 640 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,760 Speaker 1: know when it's time to step away from the sewing 641 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 1: and put the needles down. 642 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 2: My rule is, and I learned this from somebody else, 643 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,359 Speaker 2: is when I make three mistakes the row. If I'm 644 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 2: working on something and it's the same project and I've 645 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 2: sown it backwards, I'm like, Okay, that's just a mistake. 646 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 2: I'm gona check that out. And then I sew it 647 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 2: sideways and it's like, okay, I'm gonna take it out, 648 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 2: and then I sew it crossway. If I make a 649 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,240 Speaker 2: mistake three times, that shows that my fatigue is taken 650 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 2: over for me. And this was something that's happened. Over time, 651 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 2: you just get better and so you make fewer mistakes, 652 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 2: and then it lets you sew for longer periods of time. 653 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 2: But you have to give yourself the chance and the 654 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 2: invitation even to make mistakes. And so one of the 655 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 2: things that we'll do and sewing, it's called making a 656 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 2: muslin m us l i n and muslin is a 657 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,399 Speaker 2: type of cheap cotton fabric, and that word is used 658 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,840 Speaker 2: to describe making a sample garment. So if you have 659 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,839 Speaker 2: fabric that you love and it's really precious, and you 660 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 2: don't want to cut that up. To see how it's 661 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 2: gonna work. You'll get some muslin fabric, our sample fabric 662 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 2: and make a sample garment. That's a great opportunity to 663 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,239 Speaker 2: test out how it's going to go. And you make 664 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 2: all your mistakes on that, and then when you get 665 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 2: your real fabric you can have smooth sailing. But I 666 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,319 Speaker 2: think if people could be a little kinder to themselves 667 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 2: and just accept mistakes as part of the learning process, 668 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 2: then people would be less afraid, I think, to take 669 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 2: it up and to run with it. 670 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,919 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm hearing all these beautiful mental health 671 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: analogies in the way you are talking about sewing, right, 672 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 1: So you're basically talking about self compassion, right, being able 673 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 1: to forgive ourselves, and this idea that if you make 674 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: a mistake, you just unsow it right, so that few 675 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: things are permanent. We can make mistakes and still recover. 676 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yes, absolutely, And I think that's because some people 677 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 2: say sewing is my therapy, and I say, oh no, man, 678 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 2: therapy is my therapy. Sewing is therapeutic. It is something 679 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 2: for me that has brought me peace. It feels like 680 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 2: I'm closer to my ancestor. It feels like I'm stepping 681 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 2: into a story that was already sewn and written for me, 682 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 2: and all I had to do was recognize that it 683 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 2: was there. It helped me to heal after some really 684 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 2: painful losses, and it became as I started to do 685 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 2: it in Sisterhood with Black Women, it became such a 686 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 2: powerful reminder of that which I had already grown up with. 687 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 2: Like my mother and her cousins and her mother would 688 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 2: get together at our house and the sewing machines would 689 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 2: be all set up, and the TV would be on 690 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 2: and the kids running around and somehow the radio was 691 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 2: also on, and everybody's cackling and laughing and key keying 692 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 2: and girl, come over here, stand still, you know. Like 693 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 2: that was the kind of loving environment, very loving environment 694 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 2: in which I was raised, and sewing was a key 695 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 2: part of that. So in creating Black Women's Stitch, it 696 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 2: felt like I was coming home, and in coming home, 697 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 2: I was able to create a space for other sisters 698 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 2: to join me, And that has been one of the 699 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 2: ways that sisterhood heals shows up for me in the 700 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 2: work that I'm doing. 701 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: I love that thank you for that leaf. 702 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 2: So what are some of the things you. 703 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: Would it like caution beginning sewers again about or if 704 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:23,320 Speaker 1: there are some things that you wish you would have 705 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: known when you picked sewing back up, what kinds of 706 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 1: things would those be. 707 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 2: I think the first thing I would say is don't 708 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 2: be afraid. Don't be afraid. There is nothing you can 709 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 2: do with a sewing machine that is going to cause dangerous, 710 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 2: powerful harm to other people. I think that something like, 711 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 2: oh I'm afraid of this sewing. I'm a Frian'm like, well, 712 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 2: you drive a car. A car is very dangerous, and 713 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 2: people get into a car and drive and don't even 714 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,919 Speaker 2: think about it. There is nothing that you can do 715 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,320 Speaker 2: short of sewing your finger, which I have done two times. 716 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 2: And see I said too, because after over twenty years 717 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 2: of I have only sowed my finger twice. Because you 718 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,799 Speaker 2: do it once and that's enough. It forces you to 719 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 2: pay attention after that. And so I think one of 720 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 2: the things I would caution people to do is to 721 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,240 Speaker 2: step into it with a spirit of curiosity, don't feel 722 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,280 Speaker 2: like you have to do it right, and don't compare 723 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 2: yourself to anybody else. You're not trying to make the 724 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 2: pattern look exactly like the picture on the envelope, because 725 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,319 Speaker 2: your picture is not on the envelope. So I would 726 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 2: encourage people to be kind with themselves and to begin 727 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 2: with something that they think they want to do. A 728 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 2: lot of sewing teachers will say, here's a tote bag 729 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 2: because this is the easiest thing to show somebody, or 730 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 2: a pillowcase because it's the easiest thing to show someone. 731 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 2: But I've an own people who have said, I like 732 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 2: this dress, it's a rap dress, and I want to 733 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 2: make it. And they took the time and they made it, 734 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,320 Speaker 2: and they were satisfied with the outcome. It was something 735 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,280 Speaker 2: that they could wear, and while they would get better 736 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 2: over time, they're satisfaction was the perfection. Being satisfied and 737 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 2: happy and proud of what you've done. It doesn't matter 738 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 2: what anybody else thinks. And so I would caution people 739 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,319 Speaker 2: to think about what it is they want to make, 740 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 2: and to follow that curiosity and be kind to themselves 741 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,400 Speaker 2: along the way, and then you'll be more into it. 742 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: So you talked about this a little bit, but you 743 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: are also the host of an amazing podcast, Stitch Please, 744 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: which is such a great name. I love that as 745 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 1: a podcast name, tell me a little bit more about 746 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: the podcast and what kinds of topics you discussed. 747 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 2: So, the Stitch Please Podcast is a weekly audio show 748 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 2: where we center black women, girls and fems in sewing. 749 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 2: And we've had over two hundred episodes, and through the 750 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 2: course of that, I've talked to so as who just 751 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 2: started a year ago. I've talked to people who went 752 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 2: to fashion design school, people who are currently in design school. 753 00:42:55,239 --> 00:43:01,680 Speaker 2: I've talked to museum curators, artists, quilters, business owners, hobbyists, 754 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,320 Speaker 2: people that are involved in all different aspects of sewing, 755 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,800 Speaker 2: authors of books, people that are interested in sustainability. Almost 756 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,399 Speaker 2: anything you can think of, we've been able to talk 757 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:16,319 Speaker 2: about through the lens of sewing. And it has been 758 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 2: really a powerful journey because I never expected it to 759 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 2: grow in the way that it did. And I have 760 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 2: spoken to a few people and they're like, well, do 761 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 2: you think you might be exhausting the topic by now, 762 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,399 Speaker 2: And I'm like, I don't think so. I'm not talking 763 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,239 Speaker 2: to every black person in the world yet, So I 764 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,560 Speaker 2: think I got a little ways to go yet. Because 765 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 2: what's been so surprising is that regardless of the person's position, 766 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 2: whether they are a museum curator, or a professional artist, 767 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,799 Speaker 2: or a quilt teacher or someone who designs patterns. All 768 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,879 Speaker 2: of them have a really beautiful story of creativity that 769 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,280 Speaker 2: we can all learn from. And I see my task 770 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:59,360 Speaker 2: as building that archive of information to be a repository 771 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 2: to come back and to get affirmation and to get 772 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 2: a sense of wonder, like, Oh, this person has done this, 773 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 2: I can do it too. One of my recent episodes 774 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 2: toward the end of twenty twenty three was with a 775 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 2: student that I had spoken with when she started fashion school. 776 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,359 Speaker 2: I interviewed her she was a freshman, a first year 777 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 2: student in fashion school, and then when I interviewed her 778 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 2: most recently, she was between being on New York Fashion 779 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,600 Speaker 2: Week where she had some pieces in New York Fashion Week, 780 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,360 Speaker 2: and in the following week she was going to Paris 781 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:37,160 Speaker 2: for Paris Fashion Week. So the idea of being able 782 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,960 Speaker 2: to kind of follow along with someone's journey like that 783 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,920 Speaker 2: to ask her what is fashion school like, what can 784 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 2: someone expect? What are some of the kind of things 785 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,160 Speaker 2: that you do? What does it mean to major in apparel? 786 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 2: These are the kind of things that I wouldn't know 787 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,960 Speaker 2: because I've never been to fashion of design school, but 788 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 2: the fact that I can bring that forward to other people, 789 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,960 Speaker 2: and I'm just so grateful to both I think be 790 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,880 Speaker 2: a possibility model and to speak with possibility models for 791 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,600 Speaker 2: nearly every single episode, And that's what I think. I 792 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:14,960 Speaker 2: want us to remember that we are limitless. Like Beyonce says, 793 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,200 Speaker 2: that we live and are situated in an abundant universe, 794 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,759 Speaker 2: and we participate in that actively and robustly, and that 795 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,640 Speaker 2: we can believe in ourselves and each other that we 796 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,040 Speaker 2: are enough, that we are a universe. And that's something 797 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,120 Speaker 2: that the show has shown me over time. 798 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,399 Speaker 1: Oh I love that so beautiful. Thank you so much 799 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,080 Speaker 1: for that, Lisa. So, in addition to all the other 800 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,560 Speaker 1: things you're doing, you're also working on a nonfiction book 801 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,440 Speaker 1: called Black Women's Stitch Liberation. Can you give us a 802 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 1: little bit of a sneak peek of the book in 803 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 1: what you're hoping for the book to do? 804 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,799 Speaker 2: Thank you. Yes, I'm really excited about it. And what 805 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,840 Speaker 2: I'm trying to do is to talk about the ways 806 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:59,080 Speaker 2: that sewing is an act and practice of liberation. I 807 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,360 Speaker 2: think that we've thought in really powerful ways about black 808 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,719 Speaker 2: women and rest black women and sisterhood black women and community, 809 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 2: And what I see in sewing is a combination in 810 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,759 Speaker 2: some ways of all of that. It is a way 811 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,919 Speaker 2: that by talking with individual people, I'll be going back 812 00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:22,479 Speaker 2: through some episodes of the podcast and revealing how black 813 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:28,479 Speaker 2: women stitch things like justice, how questions of liberation show 814 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 2: up in something like size inclusion, how black women in 815 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,960 Speaker 2: terms of sustainability, how we've been able to honor our ancestors. 816 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,880 Speaker 2: All of these things are practices that we're able to 817 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,799 Speaker 2: do with a needle and thread. And so the subtitle 818 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 2: of the book is when freedom is fed with needle 819 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:51,279 Speaker 2: and thread, and that freedom takes the form of not 820 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:56,160 Speaker 2: just political and cultural freedom, but also personal the idea 821 00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 2: to stitch what you need. When somebody says no, you can't, 822 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,439 Speaker 2: you and your sewing machine can say yes, I can. 823 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 2: And I find that such a powerful thing, particularly in 824 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,680 Speaker 2: the society in which we live that is bombarding Black 825 00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 2: women with all manner of misagnir and negative messaging about 826 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 2: our capacity. And so it feels like a reminder and 827 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,360 Speaker 2: an invitation to step into our wholeness and that this 828 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:25,880 Speaker 2: is just one way to do it. 829 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,840 Speaker 1: So do we have a date when we can expect 830 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:29,920 Speaker 1: to get our hands on it. 831 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,400 Speaker 2: We do not not yet, so we'll just have the 832 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:37,120 Speaker 2: state tuned. No, ma'am exactly, it's listen. We all all 833 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:37,800 Speaker 2: be surprised. 834 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,239 Speaker 1: So I feel like you have already given us lots 835 00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:45,800 Speaker 1: of great resources. It sounds like there's a TikTok channel 836 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 1: that you recommend. What other resources might you suggest for 837 00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,640 Speaker 1: somebody who's interested in learning more about sewing or participating 838 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:52,680 Speaker 1: in some of these classes. 839 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,799 Speaker 2: I think I would say to just look to your 840 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,400 Speaker 2: local area. If you are a person that learns best 841 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,839 Speaker 2: in person, see if you can find some of these 842 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,160 Speaker 2: groups that I mentioned. See if there is a sewing 843 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,759 Speaker 2: machine shop near you that you feel comfortable going to 844 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,640 Speaker 2: and working with. Find other influencers that might be in 845 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,960 Speaker 2: your area. People are often doing like meetups. There's a 846 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,600 Speaker 2: group called Atlanta Sewing Style, for example, and they get 847 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,080 Speaker 2: together and do like photo shoots and sewing stuff. And 848 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,600 Speaker 2: there's similar arrangements around the country. And if you don't 849 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,160 Speaker 2: see what you need, it is okay to build it, 850 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,880 Speaker 2: and you don't have to do it alone. I know 851 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,799 Speaker 2: folks in Dallas, in Houston, in Atlanta, in Chicago, all 852 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,880 Speaker 2: these places where people are getting together and coming together 853 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,840 Speaker 2: to build too what they need, so that's another opportunity, 854 00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,280 Speaker 2: and also again reaching out to folks like on YouTube. 855 00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,680 Speaker 2: You never know, like if someone has a YouTube channel, 856 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,680 Speaker 2: they'll be willing to come and say, Hey, I have 857 00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:55,720 Speaker 2: a group of people together. Would you come and speak 858 00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,120 Speaker 2: to our group or would you offer some advice about 859 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,120 Speaker 2: how we can build? Those are other things too that 860 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,560 Speaker 2: people can do to connect. So that's something that I 861 00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,759 Speaker 2: was doing before I decided to just finally build what 862 00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,279 Speaker 2: I needed. And I also encourage and invite us. And 863 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,360 Speaker 2: it's so tough, right, doctor Joy, because we're already so busy, 864 00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,080 Speaker 2: We already have so much going on, Like why do 865 00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,799 Speaker 2: I have to make everything? I'm already trying to figure 866 00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,839 Speaker 2: out how to navigate work, I'm trying to figure out 867 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,919 Speaker 2: navigating home, I'm working in the community and love, et cetera, 868 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,239 Speaker 2: et cetera. Why do I have to do this? And 869 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,759 Speaker 2: I was in that position for quite some time, but 870 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,520 Speaker 2: for me it became urgent. And it doesn't necessarily need 871 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,880 Speaker 2: to be urgent, but for me, it became urgent, and 872 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,319 Speaker 2: that is why I ended up building what I have 873 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 2: done and hope to continue to grow and move it 874 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,719 Speaker 2: in a positive and very slowly. You know, I've not 875 00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,799 Speaker 2: thought about scale yet because it's just so challenging, But 876 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:57,560 Speaker 2: I think that we can care well for ourselves, and 877 00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:02,080 Speaker 2: in caring well for ourselves, we also care well for others. 878 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 2: And so just remember that you're worth it, that we 879 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:10,040 Speaker 2: are worth it, and that we are absolutely able to 880 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:14,960 Speaker 2: find what we need, get the resources, get advice, and 881 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:16,200 Speaker 2: move forward from there. 882 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,160 Speaker 1: So where can people stay connected with you? Lisa? What 883 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,760 Speaker 1: is your website? As well as any social media handles 884 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:22,879 Speaker 1: you'd like to share. 885 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,359 Speaker 2: You can find me. I'm Black Women's Stitch everywhere, black 886 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,880 Speaker 2: Womenstitch dot org, which is our website, Black Women's Stitch 887 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,920 Speaker 2: on Twitter, Black Women's Stitch on TikTok, and I'm most 888 00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,200 Speaker 2: active on Instagram at Black Women's Stitch. And the stitch 889 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:41,200 Speaker 2: Plase podcast is available on all podcast platforms. If you 890 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,319 Speaker 2: look somewhere and you can't find it, please tell me. 891 00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,879 Speaker 2: I'd love to know where that was, but. 892 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,040 Speaker 1: It should be everywhere. We will be sure to include 893 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,120 Speaker 1: all of that in the show notes. Thank you so 894 00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,080 Speaker 1: much for spending some time with us today, Lisa. I 895 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:53,120 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. 896 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,319 Speaker 2: Thank you, doctor Joy, and I want to thank you 897 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,279 Speaker 2: just not only for this conversation, but I want to 898 00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:00,839 Speaker 2: thank you for all the work that you've done in 899 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:05,080 Speaker 2: these beautiful conversations, in the community that you've created, in 900 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,280 Speaker 2: the booklists that you do, and in your own book, 901 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,960 Speaker 2: Sisterhood Heels. I can tell you I listen to the 902 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,879 Speaker 2: audio book, which makes it feel like you're talking only 903 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,400 Speaker 2: to me and me alone, and I really appreciate that 904 00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:21,160 Speaker 2: private narration session. It really feels like you are It's like, 905 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,239 Speaker 2: just like you and Michelle Obama, you're only reading the 906 00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,439 Speaker 2: book to me, and I appreciate spending that quality time 907 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:26,719 Speaker 2: with you. 908 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,760 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I appreciate you, Lisa. 909 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,200 Speaker 2: I appreciate you. Thank you. 910 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:38,960 Speaker 1: I'm so glad Lisa was able to join us for 911 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,040 Speaker 1: this conversation. To learn more about her and the work 912 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,600 Speaker 1: she's doing, be sure to visit the show notes at 913 00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:48,400 Speaker 1: Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com slash Session three four zero, 914 00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,239 Speaker 1: and don't forget to text two of your girls right 915 00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,839 Speaker 1: now and tell them to check out the episode. If 916 00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,440 Speaker 1: you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out 917 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,480 Speaker 1: our therapist directory at the Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com 918 00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:05,000 Speaker 1: slash directory. And if you're looking for a support system 919 00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,920 Speaker 1: to aid you in your New Year journey. Join us 920 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,960 Speaker 1: over in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of 921 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:15,160 Speaker 1: the Internet where we celebrate support and practice vulnerability. Every 922 00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,759 Speaker 1: week this January, we're setting the foundation to turn our 923 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:23,279 Speaker 1: resolutions into realities. Join us at Community dot Therapy for 924 00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:28,080 Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot Com. This episode was produced by Frieda. Lucas, 925 00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:32,759 Speaker 1: Elis Ellis and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. 926 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,040 Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. 927 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,120 Speaker 1: I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all 928 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,399 Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care. 929 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 2: What's