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Speaker 1: Taking a Walk.

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Speaker 2: I'm buzznight and this is the Taking a Walk Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: However, you are checking us out, we appreciate it, but

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Speaker 2: we do love if you can follow us on all

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Speaker 2: the platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart, or any of the

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Speaker 2: other platforms. Also, as you follow us, leave us a rating,

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Speaker 2: leave us a review, share it with your friends. We

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Speaker 2: really appreciate it. Now today I have the absolute honor

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Speaker 2: of talking with a true guardian of Louisiana music heritage,

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Speaker 2: CIJ Shinier. CJ isn't just carrying on a family tradition,

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Speaker 2: He's preserving and evolving one of America's most vital musical legacies.

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Speaker 2: As the son of the legendary Clifton Shinier, the undisputed

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Speaker 2: King of Zydeco, CJ has spent decades honoring his father's

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Speaker 2: groundbreaking work carving out his own distinctive voice in the

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Speaker 2: zydeco tradition. This year marks the one hundredth birthday of

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Speaker 2: Clifton Sheneer, and Smithsonian folk Ways is celebrating with the

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Speaker 2: release of Clifton Shaneer, King of Louisiana, Blues and Zydaco,

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Speaker 2: the first ever box set devoted to the visionary artist

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Speaker 2: who transform African American blues, R and b Afro Caribbean

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Speaker 2: rhythms and Louisiana, Cajun and Creole music into the electrifying

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Speaker 2: genre we know as Zydaco. This historic collection features sixty

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Speaker 2: seven tracks spanning nineteen fifty four to nineteen eighty three,

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Speaker 2: a lot of unreleased performances. I can't wait next to

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Speaker 2: talk to CJ. Shanier. I'm taking a walk, Taking a Walk, Well, Ceejy,

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Speaker 2: welcome to what we call the Taken a Walk Podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's an absolute honor to have you on.

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Speaker 1: That's an honor to be on, I'll tell you. So.

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Speaker 2: We we like this opening question here, maybe you can

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Speaker 2: play along with it. It's a bit, it's a bit

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Speaker 2: dream me, it's a bit mysterious, and it's supposed to

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Speaker 2: be fun and heartfelt. So since we call this podcast

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Speaker 2: taking a Walk, Cejy, is there somebody that you'd like

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Speaker 2: to take a walk with, living or dead? And who

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Speaker 2: would that be and where would you take that little

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Speaker 2: skidaddle with them?

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Speaker 3: I'd like to take another walk from my dad. You know,

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Speaker 3: it wouldn't matter where it was or where it was.

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Speaker 1: I was just hoping I wish it could be again.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, I had a feeling you were going to

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Speaker 2: tell me that, and I would love to be a

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Speaker 2: fly on the wall for that too, you know, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that would be that would be amazing. Well, twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: five marks what would have been your father's one hundredth birthday.

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Speaker 2: And when you hear people call him the King of Zidaco,

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Speaker 2: what does that title mean to you personally? You know,

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Speaker 2: beyond just the music.

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Speaker 3: It's like a badge of honor, you know, Knowing people

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Speaker 3: feel like that about my dad and knowing that they

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Speaker 3: have that thought about him, it's light. I don't know,

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Speaker 3: it's like I'm super proud, man. I mean it's I

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Speaker 3: don't think nobody could be more problems than me about that.

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Speaker 2: Well, you contributed a personal remembrance to the new beautiful

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Speaker 2: Smithsonian folk Way's box set. Can you tell our audience

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Speaker 2: what that writing process was like for you? And I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty certain I know the answer. But were their memories

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Speaker 2: or stories that you had never shared publicly before that

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Speaker 2: were part of that?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's pretty much, man, I just gave it to him,

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Speaker 3: like I remember.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm not the.

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Speaker 3: Kind of person to try to advocate things and makeup

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Speaker 3: stuff just to make it seeing better. You know, I

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Speaker 3: really got involved in my dad's bann this life in

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy eight, all before I was growing up with

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Speaker 3: my mother, you know, and he was a road dog then,

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Speaker 3: so it was like a thing man being crypta Shania's son.

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Speaker 3: So what I did was just told everybody exactly how

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Speaker 3: I felt about things and growing up with and without him,

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Speaker 3: and you know the effected air on my life, and

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Speaker 3: just tried to be as straightforward about as a positive becauld.

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Speaker 2: This wonderful collection includes nineteen previously unreleased performances. I'm pretty

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Speaker 2: certain you had heard those performances in some form before,

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Speaker 2: But were there any that, you know, frankly surprised you

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Speaker 2: that gave you new insight into the brilliance of your father.

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Speaker 1: Man, I'll tell you the truth.

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Speaker 3: They were night I was on the stage with him,

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Speaker 3: gave me an insight on his brilliance. You know, It's

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Speaker 3: just like a living lesson, And it was so good

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Speaker 3: to be still watching him and seeing how he did things.

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Speaker 3: I mean, and then when I listened to his playing,

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Speaker 3: knowing that it ain't never to the lessons nobody never

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Speaker 3: taught him Now, he's self taught.

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Speaker 1: Now I listened to some of the things he playing.

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Speaker 3: I'm like this, there was some kind of divine intervention

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Speaker 3: with his fingers man, because it's like, you know, I

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Speaker 3: listened to those notes and I'm like, well, how did

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Speaker 3: he come up with that?

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Speaker 1: All natural? Just everything was just natural with him.

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Speaker 2: Take me back to your childhood. What was the earliest

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Speaker 2: memory that you recall of music in the Shinier household?

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Speaker 2: And when did you first realize your father wasn't just

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Speaker 2: your dad, but he was this musical force of nature.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, uh, in my household, you know, he

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Speaker 3: had one Clipo Sire album, you know, and and he

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Speaker 3: sang in French and I didn't mean to speak French.

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Speaker 3: So this album had this one song on it and

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Speaker 3: that song was called hot Rod. It was instrumental, and

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Speaker 3: to me, that was the greatest song.

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Speaker 1: I ever heard because it was like my dad had song.

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Speaker 3: And you know, when I was going to school, people

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Speaker 3: would my classmates, you know, would tease me sometime or

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Speaker 3: your dadd depended on chanky chain music. And I had

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Speaker 3: one friend who used to take a piece of paper

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Speaker 3: and fold it up and a bunch of folds like

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Speaker 3: a car get and eat it, open wider and go yeah,

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Speaker 3: you o your head. But the thing about all that is,

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Speaker 3: even though they were clouding me and talking about the

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Speaker 3: music because they didn't understand it, they all knew who

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Speaker 3: he was. So it's like, okay, y'all, y'all dyed me

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Speaker 3: by my daddy, but you know him.

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Speaker 1: And then when I went on the road with.

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Speaker 3: Him, gave me the opportunity to really see how people

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Speaker 3: felt about it.

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Speaker 1: Man, you know, because I was a kid.

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Speaker 3: From living and pulled off the texts, I really never

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Speaker 3: been anywhere, and all of a sudden, I was on

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Speaker 3: a stay with the king. But to me, it's just

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Speaker 3: even my daddy. But I was on a stay in

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Speaker 3: And then I saw how people reacted to him and

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Speaker 3: how they migrated to him, how they loved him, how

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Speaker 3: they dance and fringes when he played, and all that

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Speaker 3: gave me a whole new insights to for who he

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Speaker 3: really was, you know.

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Speaker 2: So that kind of brought the fact that he was.

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Speaker 2: It was different seeing him as a band leader than

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Speaker 2: your dad.

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Speaker 3: Right right right, you know, you know, come, I'll leave

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Speaker 3: the slippers on and just chilling and everything, you know,

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Speaker 3: and he tell me stories about something the songs he

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Speaker 3: had recorded and how people acted to him. But when

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Speaker 3: I got out there saw it for myself, it was unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 3: I had never seen you know, I was playing the

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Speaker 3: flunk band and stuff like that, and I liked jazz,

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Speaker 3: but I never saw nobody act like that to funk

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Speaker 3: our jazz.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've never seen anything like that on audio reactions.

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Speaker 1: So that all that all wrapped me all up into it.

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Speaker 2: You know, your uncle Cleveland is featured prominently in the

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Speaker 2: in the box set as one of the real foundational

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Speaker 2: Zydaco collaborators. Can you tell us what the musical relationship

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Speaker 2: was like between the brothers?

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Speaker 3: Like I said, man, it was all natural, you know,

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Speaker 3: It's just like they all came. They came together like

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Speaker 3: like one. But it was it wasn't a playing thing.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't a rehears thing. They got up there, they

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Speaker 3: just did it and and they just it just fell

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Speaker 3: in place.

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Speaker 1: You know. It was like they felt the same thing.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: So my daddy playing a chore, Cleveland playing voice bawls

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Speaker 3: just like one person playing both instruments, because they blended

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Speaker 3: in so well.

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Speaker 2: It's incredible. I mean, the box set description how it

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Speaker 2: talks about your father blending African American blues, R and

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Speaker 2: B Afro Caribbean rhythms, Louisiana, Cajun and Creole music. So

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Speaker 2: it was just something that came naturally. It was not

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Speaker 2: anything that was a conscious place that he went with

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Speaker 2: all those genres. That's incredible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean he walked around hulling the blues all

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Speaker 3: the time. You know, he was a blue zotical man.

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Speaker 3: You know, he always hung the blues and they had

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Speaker 3: different influences. You know that people he listened to and

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Speaker 3: he seen their song at French Well, it was all

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Speaker 3: like I said, it wasn't playing you know, he felt

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Speaker 3: it as he went along or whatever he felt that

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Speaker 3: he did.

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Speaker 1: He never held back anything.

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Speaker 2: There's a previously unreleased recording of a song called Mister

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Speaker 2: Charlie in the set, written by your your father's cousin, uh,

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Speaker 2: Lightning Hopkins. What can you tell us about that relationship

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Speaker 2: and how did blues and zydeco intersect in your father's world.

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Speaker 3: You know, I came along later on and uh in

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Speaker 3: his career with Lightning, but uh, you know they were cousins.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm not I'm not gonna tell you exactly

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Speaker 3: know how they were cousins, but they were because Lighting

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Speaker 3: had his Cadillac parked into my daddy's house in Houston,

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Speaker 3: and you know, he promised to talk to Lighting and

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Speaker 3: try to buy it for me. But things didn't happen

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Speaker 3: every way. But I just think, like I said, my

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Speaker 3: daddy had a lot of influence because he felt the blues.

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Speaker 1: You know, like I said, he was a farmer man.

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Speaker 3: He felt the blues because they had the blues back then.

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Speaker 3: I tell everybody it's like you got to understand where

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Speaker 3: he came from it, what he had to go through

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Speaker 3: to do what he did. You know, the blues was present.

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Speaker 3: He just created a whole nother genre music within itself.

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Speaker 2: How does it make you feel how the Stones and

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Speaker 2: particularly Mick Jagger have embraced your dad's work and his legacy.

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Speaker 1: Wayne.

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Speaker 3: I remember back in nineteen seventy eight or seventy nine

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Speaker 3: or something like that, we were performing. I just got

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Speaker 3: in the band and we were performing at Bourbon Day

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Speaker 3: School in watts in California, and of course the place

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Speaker 3: for jam Pack. You know, all on stage of my day,

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Speaker 3: you know, playing the saxophone and man little promotion going

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Speaker 3: on on the audience, and it was Mick Jagger showed

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Speaker 3: up at the show that night on well, of course,

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Speaker 3: you know the old Louisanna folks, they the other two

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Speaker 3: step and half and they're like, you know, he could

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Speaker 3: get out the way so I could see cliffs.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it's a great thing.

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Speaker 3: So I know, Mick Jaggon didn't just all of a

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Speaker 3: sudden start paying attention to Clifton.

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Speaker 1: Shit, He's been doing it for years and it's really

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Speaker 1: an honor.

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Speaker 3: You know, someone like that, you know, will take the

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Speaker 3: time out his business schedule to come and they attribute

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Speaker 3: to him.

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Speaker 2: I discovered something about Austin City Limits and your father

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Speaker 2: that he performed on the third ever episode of Austin

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Speaker 2: City Limits alongside the Great Towns van Zant. What did

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Speaker 2: it mean for Zydeco to be presented on that platform

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Speaker 2: back in nineteen seventy six.

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Speaker 3: I actually performed with him at also City Limits once.

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Speaker 3: Also what I got in the Bad, which was a

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Speaker 3: little later. That's seventy six, and so I know, well,

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Speaker 3: you know, you had a great relationship with Austin, especially

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Speaker 3: because of Anton's I don't know why I was so

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Speaker 3: young and so dumb back then. You know, I didn't

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Speaker 3: know the magnitude of what Alster City Limits was all about,

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Speaker 3: you know until in the years passed by and I

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Speaker 3: played with him on there, and then once I had

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Speaker 3: they had me on there.

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Speaker 1: You know, now I see it and I'm like, wow,

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Speaker 1: that's a big deal. You know what to do? Sometimes

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Speaker 1: you know dawn on you in the hindsight of twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: What lessons did your father teach you musically and personally

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Speaker 2: that still guide your approach and your career today.

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Speaker 1: Well, musically, uh, we only sat down one time and

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Speaker 1: played together in Chicago somewhere.

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Speaker 3: Well, we was hanging out and uh we were staying

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Speaker 3: in his basement apartment and hanging out around the kitchen,

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Speaker 3: and he had as a car and I had mine,

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Speaker 3: and we played together.

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Speaker 1: But he mostly gave me pointers. You know.

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Speaker 3: My whole everything I learned came from standing next to him,

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Speaker 3: watching him, even in a musical life. I paid attention

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Speaker 3: how he did business and know what he did and

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Speaker 3: how he did it. You know, it was he wasn't

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Speaker 3: like I need you to do this, I need you

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Speaker 3: to do that, and make sure. He wasn't that kind

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Speaker 3: of person he was just being him, and by him

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Speaker 3: being him, I was watching him like a hawk man.

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Speaker 3: I was paying attention, like eyes on all the time

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Speaker 3: because I was learning. You know, I, like I said,

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Speaker 3: I got in there. I was twenty years old, you know,

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Speaker 3: sixty eight. Now I got there twenty years old as

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Speaker 3: coming out of a funk band. All of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: I was, like I said, I was on the stage

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Speaker 3: with the Kings article and I didn't know anything. But

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Speaker 3: he had patience with me. He let me learn. The

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Speaker 3: band had patient with me.

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Speaker 1: They let me learn.

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Speaker 3: And it was all from doing it, not telling it,

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Speaker 3: showing it. It's all I'm doing with it. My first

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Speaker 3: night on the first game I ever played was a Tippatinas,

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Speaker 3: and I had never been in front of audience before,

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Speaker 3: but he told her that night I needed to open

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Speaker 3: the show for me. Well, because he got sick and

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Speaker 3: you know, things changed a little bit. So he put

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Speaker 3: me in front of the audience at Tippatinas and New Orleans.

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Speaker 3: So the first time I already played a card in

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Speaker 3: front of the audience, that was for me watching paying attention.

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Speaker 3: Of course, I played hot rock because it's pretty much

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Speaker 3: what I do. A couple of buget songs because I

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Speaker 3: heard him playing. But you know, it's all hands on experience.

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Speaker 2: When you pick up the accordion today, do you feel

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Speaker 2: the weight of his of his legacy, you know, his

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Speaker 2: spirit with you at all times?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I do, But uh, I often think about him.

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Speaker 3: You know, Well, I'm on stage and I'm getting I'm

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Speaker 3: looking out of the audience and I tell myself, all my.

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Speaker 1: Daddy would be here.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: You be pretty proud of what's.

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Speaker 3: Going on in home, and especially when I sing that

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Speaker 3: song I'm coming home, and.

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Speaker 1: They don't bring back things.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's a new interest in roots music and

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Speaker 2: regional traditions, which I think is so fantastic. What do

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Speaker 2: you think zydeco offers listeners today that they might be missing?

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Speaker 2: And you know, contemporary music.

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Speaker 3: The naturalism, it's a natural music. I mean just the

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Speaker 3: style my daddy created. It wasn't the kind of stuff

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Speaker 3: you just go right down on paper and write the

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Speaker 3: song out and stuff like that. It's pretty much similar

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Speaker 3: to blues. It's all about the field. If you can't

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Speaker 3: feel it, I mean writing it down on paper, really

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Speaker 3: want to do a.

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Speaker 1: Whole lot so you but show you the notes. It's

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Speaker 1: a field music, and he felt it better than it

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Speaker 1: about it. You know, he even when he got sick.

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Speaker 3: You know, he might struggle playing some stuff, but when

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Speaker 3: it came to real zotical, which is drums, the watchboard

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Speaker 3: and accordion only that's a real zotical song. When it

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Speaker 3: came to that, I don't care how he felt. He

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Speaker 3: always played that to a maximum effects all the time.

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Speaker 2: You know, we have this other podcasts. It's called Music

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Speaker 2: Saved Me, and it's really about kind of the therapeutic

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Speaker 2: aspects of music, the healing powers of music. In my opinion,

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Speaker 2: music in general has those powers, but in particular, I

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Speaker 2: feel like zydeco really has those those therapeutic powers. I

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Speaker 2: dare say, CJ, I think you'd probably agree with you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've

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Speaker 3: had people to come up to me and say, you know,

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Speaker 3: I all having a bad day today, he said, But

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Speaker 3: when you hear his music, it just can't stay sad

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Speaker 3: and you can't see it still.

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Speaker 1: And it's the truth.

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Speaker 3: You know, It's like you could you could come to

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Speaker 3: that show feeling a certain way, but the music, it's

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Speaker 3: so infectious that before is old with you're gonna have

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Speaker 3: a big old smile on your face. No matter what

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Speaker 3: kind of day you had, if you added nothing, you

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Speaker 3: to show up at that show, You're not gonna leave

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Speaker 3: the field in the same way.

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Speaker 2: What would your father think about the box setting, about

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Speaker 2: the you know, the one hundred year celebration. Do you

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Speaker 2: think he'd be surprised, bashful about the recognition? How would

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Speaker 2: he feel?

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Speaker 3: I think he could feel good about it, because you know,

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Speaker 3: it's a lot of time my daddy show like he

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Speaker 3: wasn't you know, people, especially when he got ill, and

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Speaker 3: you know, it's hell start feeling, you know, kind of

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Speaker 3: fell slightered a little bit. You know, it's because when

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Speaker 3: he first started off, when you heard the name Cliff,

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Speaker 3: Everybody's gonna be there. You know, it don't matter all

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Speaker 3: you had to do it here that name and they

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Speaker 3: showing up this they're going through the lilut of He'll

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Speaker 3: Cliff played his Zartico and they was there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But you know, after he start his hell starts feeling,

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Speaker 3: and you know, he kind of sometimes felt like people

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Speaker 3: were kind of pushing him aside. No, a lot of

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Speaker 3: people don't know he felt that way, but I do,

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Speaker 3: And I think right now he saw attention people who

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Speaker 3: were giving and right now he probably wish it happened

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Speaker 3: while you're still living, like I do. But if he

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Speaker 3: could see it right now, I think he'd be happy

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't that sad that in the moment the great

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Speaker 2: ones don't always get the deserved recognition and then they

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Speaker 2: pass on and then it's it's it's different recognition. It's

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Speaker 2: it's it shouldn't be that way, you know.

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Speaker 3: Now, I shouldn't, especially when you have somebody like him.

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Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. My daddy, Uh invented an instrument.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if anybody else in the United States

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Speaker 3: ever invented instrument, but Shaneer did. He invented the Fortoi

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Speaker 3: you know. Uh, he designed it and with the help

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Speaker 3: of a metal worker. That's the way that Landry they

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Speaker 3: came up with that instrument, you know. And he never

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Speaker 3: knew nothing about patenting and all that kind of junk.

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Speaker 1: All he knew is he.

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Speaker 3: Wanted something better for his brother to play than the

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Speaker 3: old one thing used to tie the string around your neck,

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Speaker 3: you know, but they washed your clothes with and he

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Speaker 3: came up with that instrument. So you know, he's a pioneer.

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Speaker 3: In different aspects anxiety core music and forty I don't

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Speaker 3: think he ever.

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Speaker 1: Got no credit for invent that instrument.

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Speaker 2: One hundred years from now, when people listen to your

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Speaker 2: dad's music, what do you hope they hear and understand

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Speaker 2: about him in the world that he came from.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, a lot of a lot of people

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Speaker 3: when I first started playing with him, you know, didn't

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Speaker 3: have a school know what xiety code was. As a

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Speaker 3: matter of fact, some people say, what is our deck

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Speaker 3: coding right now? It's not the right way, you see,

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Speaker 3: that is anxiety code. But I think through his hard

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Speaker 3: work man and finally getting people to recognize our funding.

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Speaker 1: Because it was different. You know, it wasn't some polished

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Speaker 1: I will let you go in.

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Speaker 3: The studio and redo it. He went in the studio.

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Speaker 3: There was gonna be one take and that was it.

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Speaker 3: So all this music is really natural with natural sound,

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Speaker 3: and I hope one hundred years from now people are

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Speaker 3: able to hear that say, wow, this guy was natural.

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Speaker 3: You know, you don't have all the additives, you know,

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Speaker 3: all the stuff you need to put him there to

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Speaker 3: make a sound of pitch control and different effects and

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Speaker 3: all this. He didn't have none of that it was

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Speaker 3: all natural cryptisheer ads on our Cardion CJ.

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Speaker 2: As we wrap up, there is there one thing that

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Speaker 2: we might not have captured here or that wasn't in

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Speaker 2: the recording or the box set, that you would want

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Speaker 2: people to know about your daddy.

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Speaker 3: My daddy didn't look at being as King of the

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Speaker 3: Zieticho as some kind of gimmick or some kind.

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Speaker 1: Of fan like that. There was his life for real,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 3: And at the times he took that crown and put

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Speaker 3: it on his head, it's because he felt good about

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Speaker 3: it that night, he felt good about the show, he

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Speaker 3: felt good about the.

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Speaker 1: People, so you put it on. He didn't wear it

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Speaker 1: all the time.

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Speaker 3: And also I like people to know that Chrishanier lived

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Speaker 3: at King of Zieti Coode. It wasn't a joke to him.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't a gimmick. It's his real life.

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Speaker 2: It's brilliant Smithsonian folk Ways capturing the King of Louisiana

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Speaker 2: Blues and Zydeco. Clifton ser c J. Shanier a tremendous

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Speaker 2: honor speaking to you. I hope you're know that you're

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Speaker 2: always welcome back anytime.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Thanks for listening to this episode

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Speaker 1: of the Taking a Walk podcast. Share this and other

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Speaker 1: episodes with your friends and follow us so you never

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Speaker 1: miss an episode.

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Speaker 3: Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 3: and wherever you get your podcasts.