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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 3: Minnesota Governor Tim walls, once the vice presidential nominee, actually

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Speaker 3: just over a year ago, of course, was the vice

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Speaker 3: presidential nominee, announced yesterday he is no longer running for

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Speaker 3: a third term as the governor of the Gopher state.

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Speaker 3: He convened a press conference and then reporters were a

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Speaker 3: little bit irked because he didn't take questions. He's saying

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Speaker 3: he is going to take questions today. We'll see, but

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Speaker 3: let's dip into this press conference that Tim Wallswick.

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Speaker 4: Shouldn't call it a press conference.

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Speaker 3: I just caught an announcement that Tim Walls had yesterday

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Speaker 3: to make this news clear.

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Speaker 5: Twenty twenty six is an election year. Election years have

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Speaker 5: a way of ramping up the politics at a time

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Speaker 5: when we simply can't afford more of that Minnesota. In September,

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Speaker 5: I announced that I would seek a historic third term

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Speaker 5: as Minnesota's governor, and I have every confidence that if

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Speaker 5: I gave it my all, we would win the race.

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Speaker 5: But as I reflect on this moment with my family

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Speaker 5: and my team over the holidays, I came to the

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Speaker 5: conclusion that I can't give a political campaign my all.

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Speaker 5: Every minute that I spend defending my own political interest

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Speaker 5: would be a minute I can't spend defending the people

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Speaker 5: of Minnesota against the criminals who pray on our generosity

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Speaker 5: and the cynics who wanted to prey on our differences.

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Speaker 5: So I've decided to step out of this race, and

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Speaker 5: I'll let others worry about the election while I focus

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Speaker 5: on the work that's in front of me for the

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Speaker 5: next year. Don't want to Min's words here. Donald Trump

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Speaker 5: and his allies in Washington and in Saint Paul and

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Speaker 5: online want to make our state a colder, meaner place.

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Speaker 5: They want to poison our people against each other by

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Speaker 5: attacking our neighbors, and ultimately they want to take away

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Speaker 5: much of what makes Minnesota the best place in the

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Speaker 5: country to raise a family. They've already begun trying to

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Speaker 5: withhold funds that were meant to help families afford childcare,

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Speaker 5: and they have no intention of stopping there. Make no mistake,

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Speaker 5: we should be concerned about fraud in our state government.

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Speaker 5: We cannot effectively deliver programs and services if we can't

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Speaker 5: earn the public's trust. That's why over the past few

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Speaker 5: years we've made systemic changes in the way we do business.

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Speaker 3: Walls has obviously been going back and forth with folks

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Speaker 3: on the right like Nick Sureley. We can put this

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Speaker 3: next element up on the screen. Nick Sureley spread conspiracy

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Speaker 3: theories about Melissa Hortman recently said why was she killed

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Speaker 3: after speaking out against the legal migrants? Was she a

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Speaker 3: threat to you and your frauds? Shrug your scheme. This

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Speaker 3: is a pretty popular line on.

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Speaker 2: Trump amplified this baseless, ugly conspiracy theory too.

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Speaker 3: So Walls then responds, my opponents have been celebrating this

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Speaker 3: far right YouTuber as a grand breaking journalist here he

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Speaker 3: reveals who he really is, a delusional conspiracy theorist. And

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Speaker 3: Nick Sureley then responded to the news about Tim Walls.

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Speaker 3: We could put this next post up on the screen.

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Speaker 3: I ended Tim Walls. All caps came out yesterday morning

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Speaker 3: from Nick Shirley. Now, Crystal, you don't really even need

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Speaker 3: to read between the lines of the Walls statement yesterday

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Speaker 3: to say that clearly he is now carrying the weight

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Speaker 3: of these of these scandals, and that was to him

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Speaker 3: made it untenable, this third term untenable. He didn't think

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Speaker 3: he didn't say this, of course, but he didn't think

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Speaker 3: he could definitely succeed in a statewide election at this point.

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Speaker 3: He has always struggled outside of Minneapolis. He loses a

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Speaker 3: lot of the rural counties and places outside of the

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Speaker 3: Twin Cities. So maybe part of that actor in this

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Speaker 3: as well, he did I went back and looked. He

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Speaker 3: did tell Axius recently around the summer that he would

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Speaker 3: not run for president in twenty twenty eight if he

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Speaker 3: ran for governor again in twenty twenty six. So it's

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Speaker 3: possible he is taking some time and is going to

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Speaker 3: think about maybe doing something bigger. I do not know

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Speaker 3: but it does seem pretty clear that these two things

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Speaker 3: were related.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I was just looking at his approval.

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Speaker 2: It's roughly fifty to fifty in Minnesota. But that is

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Speaker 2: a significant fall from where it was previously, where he

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Speaker 2: enjoyed high favorability.

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Speaker 6: Governors actually tend to enjoy high favorability. It was kind

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Speaker 6: of interesting.

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Speaker 2: They're not subject to the same extreme national partisanship view.

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Speaker 2: But in any case, so he was at fifty to fifty,

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Speaker 2: so I think he had a pretty good shot of

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Speaker 2: getting past this and being able to prevail. But you know,

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Speaker 2: was certainly not a lock. And look, I think Nick

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Speaker 2: Shirley is right. I think he did end Tim Walls,

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Speaker 2: and I find that deeply unfortunate because the issue of

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Speaker 2: fraud in Minnesota is real, you know. I mean, there

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Speaker 2: have been dozens of prosecutions that happened actually under the

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Speaker 2: Biden administration.

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Speaker 6: I'm sure there is more to be done.

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Speaker 2: I don't think anyone doubts that I'm done denying the

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Speaker 2: reality of any of this. But it is also true

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Speaker 2: that Shirley's video was a hatchet job and was completely dishonest.

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Speaker 2: It was not journalism, it was you know, an attempt

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Speaker 2: at a political propaganda video, and it was an extremely

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Speaker 2: successful one because it got picked up by the entire

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Speaker 2: right wing media apparatus all the way up to the

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Speaker 2: President of the United States and was effectively used as

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Speaker 2: a weapon to take out this politician. And so while

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Speaker 2: you know, I think like Democrats in the state of

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Speaker 2: Minnesota are going to be find aming Klobashar's popular in Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: She's probably going to run for governor. There's an open

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Speaker 2: Senate seat right now that you know, there's some jockeying

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Speaker 2: for this. What if Cloonbashar ends up as governor, that

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Speaker 2: would create another Senate seat that actually maybe Tim Walls,

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Speaker 2: the governor is able to appoint the replacement, might be

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Speaker 2: Tim Walls. I don't know it would be Clobashar she wants,

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure of that.

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Speaker 3: According Axis here quote seriously considering a run for Minnesota governor.

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Speaker 2: But I hate to reward this like deeply dishonest, hatchet

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Speaker 2: job propaganda video is what I hate about this. I

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Speaker 2: hate the Nick Shirley who is now out, you know,

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Speaker 2: sharing fake videos of Venezuela and celebrating claiming they're in

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Speaker 2: Venezuela and they're actually in Miami not taking it down,

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Speaker 2: Like that's how dishonest he is. He did, you know

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Speaker 2: zion Is propaganda for them, pro genocide propaganda got into

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Speaker 2: Seacott somehow and it's a propaganda there.

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Speaker 6: Like that's who he is.

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Speaker 2: And so I think he's right that he ended Tim Walls,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's terrible that he's able to claim

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Speaker 2: that scalp because that will encourage not only him, but

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Speaker 2: the whole ecosystem to rinse and repeat this tactic against

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Speaker 2: other politicians that they don't like.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's interesting because from my perspective, I think

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Speaker 3: the New York Times, like I've seen people on the

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Speaker 3: right trying to take victory laps on Tim Walls.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that New York.

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Speaker 3: Times story that came out in late November, I actually

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Speaker 3: really think is but politically started to make this untenable.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I make I blamed Tim Walls for ending

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Speaker 3: Tim Walls because I think there was a total lack

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Speaker 3: of leadership as this massive degree of fraud was metastasizing,

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Speaker 3: and some of it I think was genuinely a fear

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Speaker 3: of I mean, there are people who were engaged in

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Speaker 3: the fraud, people who have been convicted who were weaponizing

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Speaker 3: identity concerns. And this was during a period of like

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, when especially

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Speaker 3: on the left in DFL circles, those types of places,

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Speaker 3: there was I think we all remember this like very

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Speaker 3: intense fear of especially in the state of Minnesota, which

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Speaker 3: was reeling from George Floyd, of coming down on the

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Speaker 3: wrong side of racial issues. And I think that led

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Speaker 3: to a serious lack of leadership and oversight, and that

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Speaker 3: created lots of lots of fraud. And when The New

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Speaker 3: York Times waded into this finally and nationalized the story

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Speaker 3: in a way that it hadn't quite been, that I

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Speaker 3: think is when it started to spiral. For Tim Walls,

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Speaker 3: I say this as kind of an interest story along

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Speaker 3: those lines of how damaged people are going to be

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Speaker 3: on the left by those years twenty twenty ish to

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty two. I don't know if that's a kind

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Speaker 3: of impossible well, let's say, I don't know if it's

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Speaker 3: it's permanent damage. I think you know right now, it's

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Speaker 3: possible that like Gavin Newsom, for example, is already trying

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Speaker 3: to find ways around things from those years. But I

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Speaker 3: think I think Tim Walls went from somebody who had

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Speaker 3: this really interesting background, and I remember we covered Tim

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Speaker 3: Walls before he was even VP because the DFL guys

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Speaker 3: were doing this interesting.

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Speaker 4: Tactically. They were doing something that I found interesting.

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Speaker 3: Is one on the right, like I've always found the

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Speaker 3: Reagan mantra to politically paint with. He said, bold colors,

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Speaker 3: not pale pastels. Basically like nobody. If nobody believes that

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Speaker 3: you don't believe what you're doing, yeah, you're going to

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Speaker 3: lose politically. And what they were doing in Minnesota was saying,

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Speaker 3: we're leading fully into all of this cultural progressivist, immigration,

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Speaker 3: trans issues.

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Speaker 4: And we're not gonna be afraid of it. We're not

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Speaker 4: tiptoeing around it.

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Speaker 3: We're telling you that we support working class people and

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Speaker 3: we support these cultural progressive issues. And that's what they

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Speaker 3: were doing, and it was genuinely interesting.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, and Minnesota's national ratings reflect the fact

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Speaker 2: that from a material perspective, that program was very successful.

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Speaker 2: I mean, is one of the top states in the

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Speaker 2: country for education, it's one of the top states in

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Speaker 2: the country for life expectancy, one of the top states

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Speaker 2: in the country for health outcomes, and on affordability. Minneapolis

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Speaker 2: has been a national model that like the Abundans Pin

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Speaker 2: two because they did some genuinely smart reforms there that

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Speaker 2: have really tapered the cost of rents in the city,

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Speaker 2: which is like a significant part of the population in Minnesota,

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Speaker 2: and so they have some of the most affordable rents

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Speaker 2: in the country for a significant you know, a city

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Speaker 2: of a significant size. So you know, to me, the

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Speaker 2: cautionary tale, like the cultural piece of this is really

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Speaker 2: just frankly, I mean, you know, the Trump administration is

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Speaker 2: loving to seize on this because they love to paint

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Speaker 2: the picture of like black or brown immigrants who are

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Speaker 2: bad and wrong and evil and stealing from the good

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Speaker 2: and righteous Americans. So they love it from this just

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Speaker 2: like purely ugly xenophobic, racist direction. The Zionists love it

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Speaker 2: because it's Muslims who are at the center of this.

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Speaker 2: And you know, Israel did these focus groups saying like, oh,

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Speaker 2: the best way we can reclaim our reclaim some ground

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Speaker 2: here is by spreading Islamophobia. So it's not an accident

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Speaker 2: that Nick Shirley, who is a committed Zionist and was

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Speaker 2: doing propaganda for the Israeli government, is also at the

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Speaker 2: forefront of this one as well. And so you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't like you're making the connection to like the

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Speaker 2: Black Lives Matter.

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Speaker 6: I think that's very I think that's very tenuous for me.

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Speaker 2: The few the warnings here are just about the willingness

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Speaker 2: and comfort of the right manufacturing propaganda to serve their ends,

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Speaker 2: which can have some connection to reality, but can also

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Speaker 2: be completely far flunk fung from reality. We have AI

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Speaker 2: videos being shared of Venezuela and celebrating and no one

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Speaker 2: caring whether they're real or fake, etcetera. The willingness of

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Speaker 2: the President of the United States to grab on that

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Speaker 2: and use it. So this is a you know, I

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Speaker 2: can't say it's a new reality, but I think it's

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Speaker 2: an accelerated reality. I think that's a warning. And then

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Speaker 2: I think the part about fraud is certainly also a warning,

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Speaker 2: because the other ideological piece here is like, these programs

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Speaker 2: have been successful and popular, but if you are, you know,

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Speaker 2: ideologically opposed to any sort of social spending, the best

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Speaker 2: way to undercut support for that is to convince people that, like,

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Speaker 2: your money isn't really going to feed kids, you know,

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Speaker 2: kids at school, or needy kids, or healthcare whatever, admirable thing.

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Speaker 2: It's going to you know, fund these fraudsters. So you know,

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Speaker 2: we got to cut these programs because you're just you're

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Speaker 2: just being robbed and that money is being shipped to

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Speaker 2: people who are deserving. So it's it's a very effective,

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Speaker 2: long practiced way of attacking any sort of social safety

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Speaker 2: net system. So I do think it's important and to

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Speaker 2: you know, to take fraud seriously, to demonstrate to the

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Speaker 2: public that you were taking that seriously. And I think

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Speaker 2: during COVID in particular, because of you know, the weirdness

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Speaker 2: of that time and the discomfort with like in person

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Speaker 2: contacts and whatever, it created a perfect storm and make

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Speaker 2: it much easier for that sort of fraud to flourish

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Speaker 2: in places like Minnesota, but probably in other places as well. California,

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Speaker 2: I know, is doing a big like analysis. Rocana has

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Speaker 2: been kind of leading the charge of like, yes, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're going to do this well text, but we also

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Speaker 2: need to make sure that we're serious about tackling fraud

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Speaker 2: for exactly this reason. I do think that's the right

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Speaker 2: lesson to take from it.

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Speaker 4: It was definitely a perfect storm.

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Speaker 3: One of the I think questions this raises is and

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Speaker 3: I don't know if Roe has talked about this, but

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Speaker 3: block grants to states as a method of distributing funds.

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Speaker 3: If you're on the left, actually what you might want

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Speaker 3: to see is more robust administration from the federal government

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Speaker 3: of the way some of these funds are dispersed so

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Speaker 3: that you don't have state politics and that kind of dynamic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the gran thing is a Republican that's a Republican deal.

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Speaker 2: And I was going to say like that, Oh, you know,

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Speaker 2: let the state's experiment and you know, for Mississippi, we

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Speaker 2: can take our block grant.

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Speaker 7: We'll just give it to Brett Farm, you know, like

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Speaker 7: even though it's federal money. Yes, that's not just from

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Speaker 7: the pool of Minnesota tax payer money. Right, And so yeah,

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Speaker 7: in the right, what we're already seeing is this idea

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Speaker 7: that the block grants themselves are not well managed. And

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Speaker 7: I'm not an expert in that, and I think a

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Speaker 7: lot of people will spout off. I think I see

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Speaker 7: this actually, especially on the right who just are opposed

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Speaker 7: to the programs, and we'll often talk about how.

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Speaker 4: Dysfunctional they are just by their nature.

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Speaker 3: So I don't honestly have a strong opinion on what

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Speaker 3: has to be done with those grants, but that you

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Speaker 3: can expect that to be on the table going forward. Now,

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Speaker 3: DFL politics, I think are going to be very very

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Speaker 3: interesting in Minnesota going forward. We can put the Wall

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Speaker 3: Street Journal piece back up on the screen. This is

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Speaker 3: e five two thousand ICE personnel headed to Minnesota. As

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Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal says, quote a mid fraud scandal

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Speaker 3: and Crystal, this is testing Minnesota politics which were already

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Speaker 3: interesting in some interesting ways. And we were just talking

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Speaker 3: about klobachar A potentially jumping into the governor's race, which

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Speaker 3: opens up a Senate seat, and there was already jacking

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Speaker 3: in that in the Senate race in Minnesota. And now

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Speaker 3: with potentially two Senate races and in an open governor's race,

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Speaker 3: this is going to be quite an interesting time. And

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Speaker 3: by the way, as this journal piece is pointing out

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Speaker 3: escalation of ICE which has become a barometer, which has

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Speaker 3: become a litmus test in some of these primary competitions. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: for sure, Minnesota is a real place to watch right now,

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Speaker 3: not just because of the fraud question.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was just taking a look. I know

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Speaker 2: in the there's already an open Senate seat because I

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Speaker 2: always forget her. Tina Smith, Is that the right Tina?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 6: Anyway, Tina, Senator Tina is retired.

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Speaker 4: That's it.

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Speaker 2: There's an open seat. And you have Peggy Flant again,

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Speaker 2: who we interviewed. I know, were you there for that

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Speaker 2: interview it was a Friday show.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we did.

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Speaker 2: And so she's like, she's like the lefty candidate and

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Speaker 2: she is Tim Wall's lieutenant governor. And then you have

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Speaker 2: Angie Craig, who is like, you know, corporatist. I think

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Speaker 2: she used to work as like a healthcare company executive

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Speaker 2: something like that. Her politics fit with what her previous

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Speaker 2: work history is. And then there's another candidate who I

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Speaker 2: don't think is as serious in the race. I think

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Speaker 2: it's basically between those two. So you know, now you

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Speaker 2: have if Clobshar runs and wins, then you have another

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Speaker 2: Senate seat open up. So and that one her replacement

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Speaker 2: would be I was saying before a point, and by

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Speaker 2: the governor. Now I don't know if that would be

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Speaker 2: Tim Walls still or if it would be the new governor.

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Speaker 2: I'm not really sure, but you could see a scenario

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Speaker 2: where one of these ladies gets the current Senate seed,

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Speaker 2: another one gets the other Senate seed.

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Speaker 6: But this is also the state that Dean Phillips is from.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if he would want to jump into

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Speaker 2: the running for one of these things to another sort

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Speaker 2: of like you know, corporatist, you know type who did

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Speaker 2: was courageous on Biden's age, you have to always give him,

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Speaker 2: got to give him that to But in any case,

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Speaker 2: that's kind of what the landscape looks like politically. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I said, last thing I just have to reflect on

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Speaker 2: is just I mean, what an incredible fall for Tim Walls.

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Speaker 2: Like there he was, you know, brat summer, he's on

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Speaker 2: the ticket. Oh, got so much energy.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 6: The thought is basically like that.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: My hope for him was that because he had been

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Speaker 2: so aggressive in pushing through these this very comprehensive economic

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Speaker 2: agenda in Minnesota, that because Kamala doesn't really have a thing,

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Speaker 2: that she would just adopt that, you know, just embrace that.

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Speaker 2: And she didn't. And he was never you know, so

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Speaker 2: he was never really put out and able to sort

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Speaker 2: of like defend that and put that at the center

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Speaker 2: of the campaign. I think in the sense she was

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Speaker 2: sort of like worried about him upstaging her, because I

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Speaker 2: know he's been caricatured at this point, but he was

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Speaker 2: very good in those cable news enters. Terrible in the debate,

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Speaker 2: but in the cable news interviews and the other appearances,

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Speaker 2: he was very effective. So I think there was some

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Speaker 2: concern about him upstaging her. But in any case, you know,

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Speaker 2: if she wins and he's vice president, then the thought is, Okay,

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Speaker 2: Kamala serves her term, she runs for reelection, and then

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Speaker 2: he's up next, you know, on a track to be

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Speaker 2: potential presidential candidate for the United States, or even if

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Speaker 2: he handles himself well in that campaign, then you know,

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Speaker 2: is a potential frontrunner for twenty twenty eight. I know

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Speaker 2: you said that you found that thing that he was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I won't run for president if I run for governor.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, I don't think that's really on the

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Speaker 2: table for him at this point because his image has

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Speaker 2: been so tarnished. And even among Democrats who have you know,

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Speaker 2: who have affection for him, which many do, myself included,

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Speaker 2: they I think we'll look at him and be like,

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Speaker 2: this guy just doesn't have what it takes. I mean, truly,

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Speaker 2: that debate with jat Advance was really bad alone.

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Speaker 7: He's not Brats all this time the end of the day.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, not Brat.

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Speaker 3: Oh I don't ever want to talk about Brat or

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Speaker 3: Brat summer again.

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Speaker 2: I'm actually really still a fan of that album. Still, Well,

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Speaker 2: you can't get ruined for me. That didn't ruin really.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I still like it a lot. Yeah, fair enough, All.

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Speaker 2: Right, guys, Well, we did want to keep our eye

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Speaker 2: on the affordability crisis, and especially as it relates to healthcare, because,

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Speaker 2: as you guys are well aware, there was no fix

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Speaker 2: for the whole Obamacare premiums expiring. That was what the

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Speaker 2: big shutdown was all about. Democrats back down without achieving

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Speaker 2: any actual material win there. Republicans never were willing to

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Speaker 2: extend those subsidies. Whatever deals they floated never came to fruition.

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Speaker 2: So here we are in twenty twenty six. Those premium

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Speaker 2: subsidies have now officially expired. Who can put this up

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Speaker 2: on the screen from ABC News, They say ACA subsidies

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Speaker 2: at lower monthly insurance premiums from millions of Americans said

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Speaker 2: to expire.

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Speaker 6: About twenty two million of the.

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Speaker 2: Twenty four million ACA marketplace and rollies are currently receiving

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Speaker 2: enhanced premium tax credits who lower their monthly premiums, and

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Speaker 2: many are preparing to see their premium store.

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Speaker 6: In twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Six, Republicans said the expansions from the pandemic era went

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Speaker 2: too far. They say tried to persuade Democrats to fund

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Speaker 2: a temporary spending bill that did not address the expiring

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Speaker 2: A subsidies with promises of discussing ways to continue the

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Speaker 2: subsidies later. So as this whole Venezuela show is going on,

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Speaker 2: people are getting bills in the mail, myself included, and

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Speaker 2: looking at the numbers and going what the hell.

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Speaker 6: And ABC News.

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Speaker 2: Interviewed a number of individuals who are seeing their premiums hike,

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Speaker 2: who were saying, I genuinely can't afford this, Like I

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Speaker 2: don't know what I'm going to do. One couple said,

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Speaker 2: we do have some savings, so we could probably make

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Speaker 2: it work for this year, but then that's it, you know,

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Speaker 2: then our savings are spent down and we still have,

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Speaker 2: you know, however, many more years of healthcare premiums that

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Speaker 2: we need to be able to afford, and we're not

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Speaker 2: going to be able to. And in this particular instance,

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Speaker 2: a wife suffers from als, so she has, you know,

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Speaker 2: specific health care needs part of what contributes to the

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Speaker 2: expense of this. But it's a really dire situation. And Emily,

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Speaker 2: I remember Trump had come out and was like, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to announce a plan and there's supposed to be

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Speaker 2: a press conference like that day. Republicans kind of freaked

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Speaker 2: out because they didn't like what he was going to offer,

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Speaker 2: and so then we never heard anything more from him

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Speaker 2: about his health care plan. I guess we're still in

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Speaker 2: the concepts of a planned phase and the reality is

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Speaker 2: hitting for millions of Americans.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this is an election year, so Republicans

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Speaker 3: have this added pressure now. I mean one of the

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Speaker 3: points after zamm Nannie one in New York City and

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Speaker 3: Republicans got kind of routed down the line, and I

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Speaker 3: should say, mum, Donnie won by a margin that a

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Speaker 3: lot of people did not expect. He of course we did,

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Speaker 3: but otherwise the people were genuinely surprised by that. And

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Speaker 3: it was this conversation that crops up about how affordability,

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Speaker 3: you know, Trump goes up literally the next day, is

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Speaker 3: like they have this new word affordability. It's like how

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Speaker 3: he calls groceries and old fashioned words, affordabily new word groceries,

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Speaker 3: very old old fashions, the.

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Speaker 4: Old fashion word.

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Speaker 8: Uh.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, they are thinking to themselves, has Trump spent too

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Speaker 3: much time on the right. They're thinking, has he spent

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Speaker 3: too much time on foreign policy? And that's immediately the

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Speaker 3: conversation in the media after the off yr elections looked

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Speaker 3: like a rebuke of Donald Trump. And now you have

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Speaker 3: him doing regime change, talking about rebuilding Venezuela's infrastructure, like

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Speaker 3: as an actual line from his speech about it in

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00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 3: an election year. And Republicans are at square one still

437
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 3: where they have been literally since twenty ten. They've got

438
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,959
Speaker 3: square one, which is repeal Obamacare. But nobody now that

439
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 3: we are, however many years, fifteen years, sixteen years into Obamacare,

440
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 3: wants to actually repeal Obamacare full implementation. I guess you

441
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 3: could pin it to like twenty fourteen, pin it to

442
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 3: twenty fourteen. So they're more than a decade into Obamacare.

443
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 3: Nobody thinks that they can fully repeal Obamacare, and they

444
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 3: have no plan. And we have covered this over and

445
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 3: over again. There is no consensus healthcare position in the

446
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 3: Republican party. Ryan and I had someone who has seen

447
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 3: as the foremost Republican expert on healthcare policy. Brian Blaze

448
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 3: sitting right here, and he has all of these like

449
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 3: wonky ideas of how Republicans can change the healthcare system,

450
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 3: but it's not politically something that they can package together

451
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 3: and be like, hey, we fixed healthcare prices. You're going

452
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 3: to see them go down, and that's what the subsidies.

453
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 3: Marjorie Taylor Green said, must you have this massive fix

454
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 3: that's actually going to bring down healthcare prices? You're asking

455
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 3: people to swallow this increase in premium prices. And now

456
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: she's out of Congress, and partially because she was chastised

457
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 3: for coming out and talking about healthcare this way. And

458
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 3: Republicans are looking at an election year where they're doing

459
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 3: regime changes and people's healthcare insurance healthcare premiums are spiking.

460
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,199
Speaker 3: So that's an obviously bad combination. Everyone in DC knows

461
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 3: it's a bad combination. And that's saying something because people

462
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 3: in DC are pretty pretty gold.

463
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 6: Yeah.

464
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the numbers for the Venezuela operation already

465
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 2: are tepid, right, But I think there's another question that's

466
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,479
Speaker 2: even more important, which is not even just like how

467
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 2: do you feel about this? But how do you feel

468
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 2: about this being the use of the president's time? And

469
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 2: you know that's part of what Joe Biden suffered from too,

470
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 2: is he also had this fixation. I mean, I think

471
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 2: a lot of presidents do because it's the area where

472
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 2: they can operate as.

473
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 6: Basically like a king.

474
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,959
Speaker 2: You know, they have the most the freest hand, especially

475
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 2: in the modern era, to apparently just do whatever they

476
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 2: want without asking Congress of the American people for anything.

477
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 2: So I think a lot of presidents gets sore fixated

478
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 2: with Then Trump, who has these authoritarian you know, instincts

479
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 2: very deep inside of him as a CEO, loves that too,

480
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: and I think it's kind of almost like addicted to it,

481
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 2: you know, the ability to just snap his fingers and

482
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 2: watch the like he described, I watched it like it

483
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: was a TV show. This special operation going down in

484
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 2: Venezuela is incredible. Like, I think that's very intoxicating for him,

485
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 2: and he has a sort of addiction to it. It

486
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 2: also drives the narrative, you know, now, like our whole

487
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 2: show yesterday was entirely about Venezuela. This show has mostly

488
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: been about of Venezuela. He gets to take control of

489
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: the public narrative in a way that he likes. But meanwhile,

490
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: even voters who might support this, which there are, you know,

491
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 2: there are somes about three percent of the public, it's like, Okay,

492
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 2: we're good with this at least where we are right now.

493
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 2: A separate question is, okay, but is this what we

494
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,959
Speaker 2: really want you spending all your time is and on,

495
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 2: and I think the overwhelming majority would say no. There's

496
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 2: a Wall Street Journal piece that kind of gets to

497
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 2: this point, not exactly like a left wing outlet here

498
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 2: Murdoch publication. Trump's Venezuela focus pulls him away from voters

499
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 2: economic concerns, and the anecdote they start with here is

500
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 2: they say Dylan Mockley voted for Trump in twenty twenty

501
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 2: four and hopes of ending wars, reigning, and government spending

502
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: bringing down inflation.

503
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 6: Upon hearing the President say.

504
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 2: The US would run Venezuela after American forces captured, I

505
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: would say kidnapped President Nicholas Maduro, the thirty eight year

506
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 2: old sarcastically said, charming, just what I voted for. Instead

507
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 2: of spending more money overseas, Monckley said he would prefer

508
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 2: to see Trump focused on prices in the US. He

509
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 2: said the pandemic lockdowns and subsequent inflation surge reaped havoc

510
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 2: on his finances. I make the most money I ever

511
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 2: made in my life, and I feel the brokest I've

512
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 2: ever been. He runs a food truck business in rural Idaho.

513
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 2: He said he routinely sees customers credit cards declined. He

514
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: characterized Trump's first year in office as a gigantic disappointment

515
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 2: to a monumental degree, and he expects to either vote

516
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 2: libertarian or abstain from voting at all in the midterm elections. So,

517
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think he's the only one not

518
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 2: to say that he's entirely representative. Many, you know, Mega base,

519
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 2: are still with Trump and plan to come out and

520
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 2: vote the minterums whatever. But I don't think Dylan is

521
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 2: like the only guy who's feeling this way, feeling like

522
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 2: Trump promised him one thing and having some hope that

523
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 2: his finances personally would get better, and instead the focus

524
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 2: is all on these foreign operations.

525
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean that was again, this is baked

526
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 3: into trump Ism. It's not just this opposition to foreign

527
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 3: policy that looks like nation building and regime change and imperialism. Actually,

528
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 3: for a lot of people, especially people who are kind

529
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 3: of right or leaning right, independents who are more likely

530
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 3: to vote right, it's not just that, it's also that

531
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 3: there's been this hollowing out of the American economy while

532
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 3: elites kind of play in the foreign sandbox. And I

533
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 3: think for Trump to be so sucked in, I mean,

534
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 3: now he talks constantly about all of the wars.

535
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 4: He claims to have ended.

536
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 3: He talks all the time about that, like he makes

537
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 3: it part of what his message to the American people.

538
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 4: And obviously that's not unimportant.

539
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 3: Obviously, you know, whether you agree with him about world

540
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 3: peace or not, you want to see stability around the world.

541
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 3: Everyone wants to see stability around the world. For the

542
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 3: most part, the average voter wants to see that. But

543
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 3: what they care with the difference politically is priorities. So

544
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 3: it's not that it's not important. It's that people are saying, Trump,

545
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 3: you were the guy who said you were going to

546
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 3: stop the adventurism at the sake that was coming at

547
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 3: the sake of the average American. Right, that was coming

548
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 3: at the sacrifice of the average American, And that I

549
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 3: think is going to be if the economy. I mean,

550
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 3: they're hoping that tax season comes around and the bill

551
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 3: kicks in in a way that Americans really start feeling,

552
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 3: which did not happen in twenty eighteen, by the way,

553
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 3: But they have all kinds of manufacturing credits and stuff

554
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 3: that they hope is a juice to the economy in

555
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 3: the next what like six months. I mean, it's now

556
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 3: we are in twenty twenty six. That's happened. So while

557
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 3: we're just talking about the row raw politics of it,

558
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 3: we're in a total we're in totally uncharted territory with

559
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 3: this tariff regime. On top of that, you have the

560
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:14,719
Speaker 3: i mean the American economy reeling from this new AI

561
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 3: change in the job force. College graduates are looking at

562
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 3: record levels of unemployment. Recent college graduates looking at record

563
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 3: levels of unemployment. So there's significant structural changes in the

564
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 3: economy in twenty twenty six that they're facing down. So

565
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 3: a lot of foreign policy adventurism, just on a political level,

566
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 3: is going to be a toxic combination at the ballot box.

567
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: I think this kind of underscores a pointless but after

568
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 2: you up on the screen, this is this was very

569
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 2: interesting axios did this. You can take a look at

570
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: the search interest in these given topics. Starting the year

571
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: with Palisades fire, you see spike their Greenland inauguration, Elon musk,

572
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 2: oh god Dei, DC Plane Crash, RFK Junior, you'd see

573
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: Gaza kind of has these peaks throughout the entire year,

574
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: Doge Ski, Then comes auto Pen. Then you've got Terriffs again,

575
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: a spike in the beginning but ongoing conversation, signal Gate,

576
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: popely a real id that had a lot more than

577
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: I thought, Golden Dome, Oh my god, that got a

578
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: love attention, Biden, cancer killmar Abrego Garcia again having these

579
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 2: various spikes ice across the year. But look at La

580
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 2: Buobo okay, and then look down at the middle of

581
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: the screen.

582
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 6: There inflation.

583
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 2: The one news item consistently high across the entire year

584
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: is inflation, followed by Sidney Sweeney and Labuobos.

585
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 3: Apparently Simmy Sweeney, Well, we were on top of that.

586
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 4: From day one.

587
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 6: Significant interest throughout the year.

588
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: Apparently K Pop Demon Hunter is also quite a bit

589
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 2: of interest in the latter part of the year, so

590
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 2: since stained interests there as well. But oh god, six

591
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: seven is on the list as well, had some.

592
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 4: Why did you say it? Why did you say it?

593
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, You're not sorry anyway.

594
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: But yeah, if you look at all of those news items,

595
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 2: you know, most of them, even something that was a

596
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 2: massive constant, Charlie Kirk's assassination, it's a spike and then

597
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: it drops way down. Yeah, most news items are like that.

598
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 2: And yet inflation throughout the whole year, you have this

599
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: high level of sustained interest, And I mean that kind

600
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: of tells you everything, doesn't it. Like all these other

601
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: things are incredibly significant, but in terms of the public attention,

602
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 2: they come and go. But the one thing that is

603
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 2: a constant is am I making it?

604
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 6: Am I going?

605
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 2: What am I buying at the grocery store? How much

606
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 2: is it costing?

607
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 4: Yes?

608
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 2: What is my rent? Am I going to be able

609
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 2: to buy a house? Am I gonna be able to

610
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: sell a house?

611
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 3: Like?

612
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 6: What are the interest rate?

613
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: That sense of can I even sustain the life that

614
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: I'm living right now? That does not go away for people?

615
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, not at all.

616
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 3: And I think this is part of the mistake that

617
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 3: the left made for a really long I mean, we

618
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 3: cover this forever talking about some of these like kind

619
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 3: of decadent elite priorities, like Elizabeth Warren first debate of

620
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 3: twenty twenty even using the phrase latin X sounds like

621
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 3: a silly little thing, But to your average voter, it's like, what.

622
00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 4: The hell are you talking about?

623
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: You from her I can't pay my bill grounding in

624
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: acaonhomic populism, Yeah, girl, what are you doing?

625
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 4: Exactly right?

626
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 9: But I mean it was a it was obviously an

627
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 9: odd time. Yeah, you had to be there, you had

628
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 9: to be there, but it was those types of mistakes

629
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 9: actually struck your average voters, like what are you focused

630
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 9: on right now? Because I can't pay my bills, jobs

631
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 9: are leaving my town. This is met like the entire

632
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 9: economy feels off as the voter and that piece said

633
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 9: he said, He's like, I'm making more money in my

634
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 9: life and I than I ever have my life and

635
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 9: I can't pay my bills. Like yeah, many such cases

636
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 9: and that type of experience when you hear politicians talking

637
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 9: about these priorities is infuriating. And so it wasn't just

638
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 9: that people disagreed with like saying latin X or whatever.

639
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 9: The you choose your priority a cultural priority at that time.

640
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 3: It wasn't just they disagreed with it, it was actually

641
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 3: they were angry that it looked like.

642
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 2: Like that we're focused primary focus. Yes, yeah, And so

643
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: even people who maybe were sympathetic to you know, some

644
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: of the underlying goals are like, okay, but like where

645
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 2: does the rubber meet the road and why can't we

646
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: focus more specifically on those things? So yeah, you know,

647
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone should be surprised that culture war

648
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: like slop is the easiest thing in the world to do.

649
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't require any legislative effort, it doesn't

650
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 2: require any like build on of new programs. It's very

651
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 2: easy for the DHS account to post a Nazi meme

652
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: that doesn't take anything, you know, and I think it's

653
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 2: very common for elites of both parties. But I think

654
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: this administration really leans very heavily into this because a

655
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 2: lot of their cohesive glue and raison tetra is this, like,

656
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 2: you know, these culture war battles, and then you marry

657
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 2: that together with you know, I mean, the Venezuela thing

658
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: is partly framed in cultural terms from them as well,

659
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: and then Trump loves that this is this area of

660
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 2: just free rein from him, or at least he takes

661
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 2: advantage of it as an area of free reign for

662
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: him as an executive. And that's where you end up

663
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: with most of the administration's focused going while people continue

664
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: to search for some political party, some political leader that

665
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: is actually going to deal with what is increasingly like

666
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: genuine crisis in terms of you know, people being able

667
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 2: to make it. People seeing these billionaires with skyrocketing wealth

668
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 2: and skyrocketing power that comes along to it with it,

669
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: that are just controlling betting on poly market, Yeah, betting

670
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: on polity market, building a data center in near your

671
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: town that you don't want there, that's spiking your electric bill. Like,

672
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,239
Speaker 2: these things are becoming less theoretical and much much much

673
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 2: more real for people.

674
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 3: You know, the culture work stuff again, Like it's important.

675
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 3: I think we all agree that some of these issues

676
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 3: are genuinely very important to parents. Yes, And that was

677
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 3: a lesson of twenty twenty Glen Youngin and what I

678
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 3: think people should be taking from. For example, Whin some

679
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 3: seers pretty stinging defeat, not that that was particularly surprising,

680
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 3: but she really ran on redoing the culture war and

681
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 3: that trying.

682
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 6: To trans bathroom and sports, right.

683
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 3: You're in Virginia. Yeah, she really ran a heavy cultural

684
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: war campaign trying to reanimate the Ynkin Coalition during a

685
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 3: different time. We were literally just talking about that in

686
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 3: twenty twenty. And Republicans are going to make a mistake

687
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,959
Speaker 3: if they think they can coast on the same twenty

688
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 3: twenty politics, because Democrats have now half a decade of

689
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 3: experience adapting to failures.

690
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 4: And you saw that with Mom Donnie.

691
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 3: You saw it with Democrats in the Virginia race for example,

692
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 3: like that was like a much better campaign than Democrats

693
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,919
Speaker 3: would have won, would have run just a few years

694
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 3: ago in Virginia. In fact that they then they did

695
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 3: run with Terry mccaulliffe. And that's It means that Republicans

696
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,919
Speaker 3: can and Republicans being in power now as well means

697
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 3: that the dynamic is totally different. And so you can't

698
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 3: just expect backlash to dem cultural excesses to distract from

699
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 3: economic problems when you're in power. It just is not

700
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 3: going to work that way. It was the opposite for

701
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 3: people like Youngkin and who said and I went back

702
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,280
Speaker 3: and looked at Youngkin's inaugural speech recently. He was talking

703
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 3: actually about how he was connecting the culture word class

704
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 3: and it's funny coming from someone like Glenn Younkin, but

705
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 3: it was clever, like it, it was genuinely clever saying

706
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 3: that these ideas were hurting people at the bottom more

707
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 3: than they were hurting people at the top. And that

708
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 3: is really really interesting. It's not if Republicans don't aren't

709
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 3: able to make that connection, which is obviously harder to

710
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 3: do when you're in charge of the economy.

711
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, good luck.

712
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: There was also something very specific going on at that

713
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 2: time period, which is a lot of parents, like non

714
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 2: ideologically upset with school closures and which you know was

715
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 2: understandable also, and so you know, I think it was

716
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: a very sort of specific moment where he's able to

717
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: achieve that victory that you know, like we've moved on

718
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 2: from that moment, and so some of those pieces just

719
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: aren't there to work with anymore either.

720
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 3: No, but I mean, this is the future of the

721
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 3: Republican Party, Like I remember that's allowed and like twenty

722
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 3: twenty something made it twenty made like a mini documentary

723
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 3: talking to these parents who were organizing themselves in the

724
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 3: basement of this barn, and some of them were like

725
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 3: old tea party hands.

726
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 4: But some of them I remember talking to them.

727
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 3: They were like minorities, they'd never been involved in politics.

728
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 3: Maybe I had voted for Obama and you're looking at

729
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 3: this and you're like, this is the Trump era in politics,

730
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 3: But it's not anymore like that. That coalition is fraying. Yeah,

731
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 3: and part of it is because on the margins, which

732
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 3: really do matter. On the margins, you had people who

733
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 3: again know talking people who voted for Obama and we're

734
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 3: organizing for Glenn Youngkin. Like.

735
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 4: It was just it was a strange time to your point.

736
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 3: But if Republicans want to keep that coalition into the future,

737
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 3: it's not looking good. And it doesn't seem like Trump

738
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 3: himself understands or cares much about what that would look like.

739
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 4: Down the road.

740
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 6: Very true.

741
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 2: All right, guys, we've got ditty on the show bar

742
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 2: there because I recorded a little while back in interview

743
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 2: with Tore about the Diddy Netflix dock toy has some

744
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 2: spicy takes. He's also in the documentary. Yeah, he's in

745
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 2: the documentary several times as a journalist, because you know,

746
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 2: I mean, he's interviewed. He's most famous for that r

747
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 2: Kelly moment. But he's interviewed, you know, everybody, he knows

748
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 2: a bunch of the people that are involved. So I

749
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 2: really wanted to talk to him about what he thought

750
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 2: and so and he did some I watch it, Yeah,

751
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: and he did some digging, you know, some journalistic digging

752
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 2: into some of the anecdotes that are told in the

753
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: documentary that he's able to like pour some cold water on.

754
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 2: But in any case, it was really fascinating speaking with him.

755
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 2: So have a relatively lengthy interview with him about the

756
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 2: Netflix stock.

757
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 4: I mean, did you guys get into the fifty cent stuff?

758
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, a little bit, A little bit.

759
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: Uh, It was more about, you know, what do you

760
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 2: make of was Diddy involved in Biggie's murder? Because that

761
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 2: is alleged in the documentary, and Tory's very skeptical of that.

762
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 2: Was he involved in Tupac's murder, which I think there's

763
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 2: more solid evidence for.

764
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 6: But Tory is also somewhat.

765
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 2: Skeptical of that too, So I have to hear his

766
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 2: analysis of you know, why he doesn't fully buy the

767
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 2: evidence that's proffered there. But there are some other ways

768
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 2: that they sort of tell the story that he's like, well,

769
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 2: that's not exactly how it happened based on what I

770
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 2: spoke with. And in any case, if you haven't watched

771
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 2: the documentary, it is interesting.

772
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 6: I guess there's spoilers here, although.

773
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 2: In this interview, although I get you know, we all

774
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 2: kind of know how this all went down. Yeah, so

775
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 2: it's not really spoilers. But in any case, I recommend

776
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 2: you watch. I think you guys will enjoy it certainly,

777
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 2: and I like talking to Tory about it.

778
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 3: I can't wait to watch it, so I'll be there

779
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 3: with everyone else.

780
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 6: Amazing.

781
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 2: All right, guys, bro show tomorrow and Sagar and I

782
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 2: will be back on Thursday and we'll see you then.

783
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 6: So yeah, all right, guys.

784
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: So I, like many other Americans and probably some people

785
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 2: overseas as well, just watch the Netflix Ditty documentary, which

786
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 2: was backed by fifty cent. And after I watched it,

787
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 2: I said, there's one person I need to speak with

788
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 2: about that, and that is my great friend and the

789
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 2: legendary journalist Torre, who is doing all kinds of interesting

790
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 2: things right now, including talking to Nomiki Kanst about her

791
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 2: breakup with Bill Deblasio. But in addition has a YouTube

792
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 2: channel called rap Latte that you guys should definitely check out.

793
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 2: So great to see you, my friend.

794
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 8: Nice to see you.

795
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 6: Yeah.

796
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 2: So before we jump in, guys, spoilers spoilers, not that

797
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: I mean, is it spoilers when we kind of know.

798
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 6: Some of these things.

799
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 2: But anyway, if you're waiting to be surprised about how

800
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 2: this documentary unfolds, watch it and come back to this.

801
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 10: It's a documentary about history that has been discussed. It's

802
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 10: interesting because a lot of this history for gen xers

803
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 10: and older millennials who are into hip hop, this is

804
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 10: old history that we have been discussing and arguing about

805
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 10: for a very long time. I think for younger millennials

806
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 10: and for zoomers, this may be their first time discussing

807
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 10: some of these issues, especially when you go back to

808
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 10: I believe it was the ninety ninety three, ninety four

809
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 10: two you maybe shooting at Quad Studios ninety three, they

810
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 10: had not really discussed this. I know for some of them,

811
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 10: they had never heard of the CCNY tragedy, so some

812
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 10: of this.

813
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 2: So Toy I actually did not know about the CCNY tragedy.

814
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 2: So you know, I'm sort of engaging on this as

815
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 2: not like super like in the weeds with all of

816
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 2: it just like existing in America throughout this time period.

817
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: But there were some, you know, some sort of foundational

818
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 2: pieces here that even I didn't actually know about and

819
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 2: that they use. So maybe talk a little bit about

820
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: the CCNY piece, because that becomes a kind of bedrock

821
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: part of how they build out the story of Ditty

822
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 2: just being an absolute psychopath in every way.

823
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 10: Let's I mean, let's start with this baseline that Puffy

824
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 10: has been a horrible person for a long time, and

825
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 10: I believe a lot of the essay and violence charges

826
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 10: that are levy against him. He has been known to

827
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 10: all of us as a sex addict for a long time,

828
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 10: somebody who does not really care about other people and

829
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 10: will roll over other people to get whatever he wants,

830
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 10: typical of what it takes to become a leader in

831
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 10: this capitalist society. You know, has been an egomaniac, has

832
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 10: been I did a video on YouTube. I know why

833
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 10: did he has broken? And I think there's something broken

834
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 10: inside of him that goes back to way back. And actually,

835
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 10: let me tell you a story from his childhood that

836
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 10: I think sort of sums up some of who he is.

837
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 10: He had a paper route as a kid. A lot

838
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 10: of us in gen X had paper routes. The most

839
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 10: entrepreneurial kid in the neighborhood had a paper route where

840
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 10: he or she would get on their bike before school

841
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 10: and throw newspapers into twenty or thirty or forty people's homes, right,

842
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 10: and sometimes maybe your mom would drive you around and

843
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 10: help you do that. It's always like, you know, the

844
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 10: most go getter kid in the neighborhood would have a

845
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 10: paper route, right. So of course young Puff had a

846
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 10: paper route. But what happened is that he purchased other

847
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 10: kids paper routes. Now that is not super unusual, but

848
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 10: then he would have them delivering papers for him so.

849
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 8: And taking some of their money.

850
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 10: And you might say, oh, well that's being clever, okay,

851
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 10: But at twelve or thirteen, he's thinking like a capitalist

852
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 10: and manipulating the labor of other kids to enrich himself.

853
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 8: And my over thirteen year olds are not thinking like that.

854
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an instinct for exploitation, It's what that is exactly.

855
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 10: So I mean, you're already starting with that. So by

856
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 10: the time you get to C. C and Y, I

857
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 10: believe he was about twenty twenty one, twenty two somewhere,

858
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 10: and there he had left Howard University. He was known

859
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 10: in New York City as one of the big promoters.

860
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 10: I mean, like when I got to New York City,

861
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 10: he was already known as like one of the big

862
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 10: promoters in party promoters, nightlife promoters. And so the c

863
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 10: C why thing at CC and why he planned and

864
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 10: executed a celebrity pro am basketball game which was kind

865
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 10: of an excuse to put on a mini concert inside CC,

866
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 10: and why.

867
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 2: Weird s and why for people don't at City College

868
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 2: of New York, which is up at what like one

869
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 2: fortieth Street something like yeah.

870
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 10: Something like that, which is a very let's say, which

871
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 10: is a college that a lot of working class folks

872
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 10: would go to because it's much more affordable than a

873
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 10: lot of other places. And he planned the celebrity basketball game.

874
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 10: So all the all the hip hop artists who were

875
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 10: hot of the moment, who were New Yorkers who he

876
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 10: could just get on the phone were going to come.

877
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:50,720
Speaker 10: So I think there was like six or eight Heavy

878
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 10: D was one of them, I remember, and it was

879
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 10: super popular at that time, and they I think they

880
00:43:58,160 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 10: had I think it was that they had a capacity

881
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,720
Speaker 10: of like let's say twenty five hundred and they sold

882
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 10: like five thousand tickets. So there's clearly like a hustler

883
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 10: ship and you know, an exploitation. Uh, you know, we're

884
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 10: just gonna fake it till we make it and like

885
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 10: just just we'll figure it out.

886
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 2: On the batrels don't apply, We'll figure it out, you

887
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 2: know what I mean.

888
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 10: And you know you can google the specifics. But there

889
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 10: was a tramp there, there was a there was a problem.

890
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 10: There was a stampede because there were too many people

891
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 10: inside and outside the space trying to get in. And

892
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 10: you had a situation where a lot of people were

893
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 10: trying to get out rapidly and people got squished against doors,

894
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 10: fire doors that would not open, people got trampled, and

895
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 10: about nine people who were most of them teenagers think

896
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 10: the oldest was like twenty seven, twenty eight, but most

897
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 10: of them teenagers. About nine people died, you know, which

898
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 10: is very tragic. Puff was sued. A lot of people thought,

899
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 10: you know, this would be the end of your professional life.

900
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 10: He somehow survives that, which starts this whole thing of

901
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,720
Speaker 10: like he keeps surviving these crazy moments when that would

902
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 10: ruin a lot of other people's careers.

903
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 2: Well, and the way the doc frames it actually isn't

904
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 2: just that he survived, but that this is part of

905
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 2: what made him famous, That this tragedy that would have

906
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 2: ended the career of anyone else is part of what

907
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,919
Speaker 2: helps to launch him in the public consciousness.

908
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 10: I mean perhaps, I mean like he got a lot

909
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 10: of name recognition out of that. People who had not

910
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 10: heard of Puff Daddy before that heard of him.

911
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 8: But you know, I mean just setting the record straight.

912
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 10: Often in this climate right now after the trial, the

913
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 10: doc sounds like you're defending him in no.

914
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 8: Way, shape or form.

915
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 10: And by defending him, and one of my TikTok videos

916
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:55,959
Speaker 10: alleges insinuates that he may have killed his wife, Kim Porter,

917
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 10: the mother of three of his children. So I'm never

918
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 10: defending Puff. But you know, the tragedy got some people

919
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 10: knowing who he was. But then after that, excuse me,

920
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 10: while he was there, he was already an A and

921
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 10: R man at Uptown Records, and he launches the career

922
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 10: of Mary J. Blige, and he launches the career of

923
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 10: Jodasy and they were massive stars right away. And there's

924
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 10: some there's some significant creative innovations that happened with the

925
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,879
Speaker 10: rise of Jodasine, especially with Mary as far as the

926
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 10: merging of hip hop and R and B that had

927
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 10: not happened before. So this was actually the first time

928
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 10: that people were like, Okay, the artists are dope, but

929
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 10: who's the A and R guy who is styling them,

930
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 10: who is really uniquely like creating the artists that are

931
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 10: like these major cultural figures that are changing the game. So,

932
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 10: you know, to me, to a lot of us, it's

933
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 10: the rise of Jodasy and Mary j Blige that make

934
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 10: it like, wait, who's that guy? And out of the

935
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 10: success of those two and creating Biggie while he was

936
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 10: at Uptown and he gets fired from Uptown because of

937
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 10: an interpersonal clash with the leader of Uptown, then he's

938
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 10: able to go to Clive Davis and get money to

939
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 10: start his own label, which.

940
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, boy, So I want to jump into the

941
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 2: part that people will be sort of boast, I think

942
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 2: fascinated by, which is the documentary's evidence mostly circumstantial, but

943
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 2: evidence that Diddy is directly responsible for the murder of

944
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 2: Tupac and sort of low key responsible for the murder

945
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 2: of Biggie as well, And they spend a lot of

946
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 2: time building up like, this is an absolute psychopath. He

947
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 2: will do any literally anything he cares about power and control,

948
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 2: whether it's okay, now that I know that's your girlfriend,

949
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 2: I'm going to steal her, whether it's I'm going to

950
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 2: call you into my office on a whim just so

951
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 2: you can see me getting sucked during office hours when

952
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 2: I don't even want you, you know, need anything from you,

953
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 2: Like I'm going to convince you that you have to

954
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 2: give me all of your shares in this business that

955
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 2: we co founded. Like everything is sort of building up

956
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 2: to this guy as a total psychopath who's just in

957
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 2: and for himself, won't do literally anything. And then before

958
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 2: I get your analysis, just take people through. What is

959
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: the evidence that is offered that Diddy is directly responsible

960
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 2: for the murder of Tupac.

961
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 8: So the tu Box story is a lot, it's it's.

962
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 10: There's so we really got to go back to in Atlanta.

963
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 10: There's a club conversation, fight conflagration between him and sug

964
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 10: and it ends up that one of sug Knight's friends

965
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,720
Speaker 10: in his crew gets killed. Sug Knight is the leader,

966
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 10: of course of death Row Records, which is really the

967
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 10: prop beefing with bad Boy during this time after that,

968
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 10: it's reasonable to expect that Puff was very afraid that

969
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 10: they would try to come back and do something to

970
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 10: him or somebody around him. So the notion that he

971
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 10: thought that maybe we should do something is there. We

972
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 10: got to remember, Puffy is not a street guy. Suge

973
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 10: Knight is absolutely a real street guy. He comes from

974
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 10: the La gang scene. Puff is a suburban guy who

975
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 10: becomes more gangster.

976
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 8: As he's in the music business.

977
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 10: But that's not really where he's from, and especially at

978
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 10: this point in the early to mid nineties, there are

979
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 10: real street people in the industry. There's a conversation in

980
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 10: the documentary and in the world of hip hop that

981
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 10: Puff hired somebody to get tupac okay in the dock.

982
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 10: They say that there was a moment where there's four

983
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 10: zero forty gangsters in a room and Puff says to

984
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 10: the entire room, one million dollars if you can get

985
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 10: and eliminate Sug and Puck. I find it very difficult

986
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 10: to believe that you basically stood on a stage in

987
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 10: front of forty people and said, hey, I got a

988
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,760
Speaker 10: billion dollar bound. I mean, I also think as a leader,

989
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 10: you wouldn't do it that way. You would say it

990
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 10: to one person, you wouldn't. You wouldn't say it to

991
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 10: a whole room full of people, Like you're like.

992
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 2: Hey, get the zoom call together. Everybody hears your invites,

993
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 2: you know you like. But on the other hand, I

994
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 2: mean they have in the documentary. I mean, I listen,

995
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 2: I found a compelling but I also don't know anything right.

996
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 6: But they have in the dock. They have all this.

997
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 2: Testimony from a profer session from what's the guy's name, KEIVD, who's.

998
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 10: Been saying for years that Puff was supposed to pay

999
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 10: him for getting Puck and or sug KVD did not

1000
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 10: get paid. That money supposed to Lee was stolen by

1001
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:05,320
Speaker 10: a gangster who was down with Puff, So he says

1002
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 10: that he did the thing and was supposed to get paid,

1003
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 10: didn't get paid.

1004
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:09,280
Speaker 8: But let's go back a second.

1005
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 10: Yeah, Orlando Anderson is a crip who happened to be

1006
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 10: at the Tyson fight. He had stolen a death row

1007
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 10: person employees chain death row chain earlier. So when they're

1008
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 10: at the Tyson fight, somebody says to Tupac, there's the

1009
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 10: guy who stole that guy's death row chain, and Pak

1010
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 10: and others go beat him. Up and then later that

1011
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 10: night the Orlando Anderson we know this, went back and

1012
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 10: shot Puck. Orlando Anderson is Keefyd's nephew. Now I am

1013
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 10: being asked to believe that Pak initiated a fight, which

1014
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 10: I believe against the one per person who was hired

1015
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 10: to kill Tupac. So he picked the one wrong person

1016
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 10: who was already looking for their opportunity. And when he

1017
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 10: when they beat up Orlando Anderson, Keifeede and others were like, Oh,

1018
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 10: here's our perfect opportunity to go get pack and everybody

1019
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 10: will think that it's retaliation for that. We've already been

1020
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 10: looking for our opportunities to me. Okham's raisor is you

1021
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 10: saw crip? You beat up a crip and he came

1022
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 10: back and shot you. That is extraordinarily believable and extraordinarily reasonable.

1023
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 10: If you beat up a crip, he will take a

1024
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 10: gun and try to shoot you right or a blood whatever.

1025
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 2: What do you know about how Diddy at this time

1026
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 2: was thinking about Pak, Like what level of threat he perceived?

1027
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: You know, what do you think his headspace at this

1028
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 2: time would have been.

1029
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 10: I think from talking to people who was around him

1030
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 10: and who know him, that he was definitely very scared that.

1031
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 10: There was definitely a fear that these Death Row guys,

1032
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 10: we don't know what they're going to do. You know,

1033
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 10: they could come back us with any level of violence.

1034
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 10: So there was definitely a genuine fear and a state

1035
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,840
Speaker 10: of like, we need to be, you know, on edge,

1036
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 10: We need to be on point because these guys might

1037
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 10: come back at us in any number of ways. Does

1038
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 10: that mean that he did this? Is it possible, maybe,

1039
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 10: but I just I just don't think that that's where

1040
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 10: he was. Did he this person, this person, this person believable?

1041
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 10: Did he roofy and drug and thus incapacitate and so

1042
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 10: he could an essay?

1043
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 8: Many people totally believe that.

1044
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 10: But did he order pox? I just don't buy it.

1045
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 10: Is it possible, maybe, But.

1046
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 2: I just so it's not that you don't think that like, oh,

1047
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 2: that would be too far from him, and morally he wouldn't.

1048
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 2: You just don't feel like the story.

1049
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 10: Most logical to you morally. Sure it's possible, Sure, I

1050
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 10: from knowing what I know from talking to people, Puff's

1051
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 10: not a street guy. So the notion that he at

1052
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 10: that point in his life turned to we're going to

1053
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 10: kill this guy, Puck I mean I also feel like

1054
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 10: he would have seen that Sug was the real enemy.

1055
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,439
Speaker 10: Sug was the would be the one who would say,

1056
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 10: you go shoot Puff, so you'd be trying to shoot

1057
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 10: Puff Sug well.

1058
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 6: But allegedly he was right.

1059
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 2: Allegedly he was trying to get both Sug and Pac right.

1060
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 8: Yeah, which is I mean, like, how did you not

1061
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 8: you were right there?

1062
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 2: I did want to know what did you think of

1063
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 2: the portrayal of Sug because the doc kind of portrays

1064
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:04,240
Speaker 2: him as like, yeah, from the street, rough guy, Buddy

1065
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 2: took care of his artist, and Diddy is like, you know,

1066
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 2: just pure exploitation and so that's why a bunch of

1067
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 2: his artists were leaving, et cetera.

1068
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 10: I mean correct about Puff as far as exploitation and such.

1069
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 10: Sugar is also a horrible person, you know, from the street,

1070
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,240
Speaker 10: not necessarily as far as we know, the sex addict

1071
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 10: and people, but like violence, like no problem, Like I'm

1072
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 10: I mean like this is a much longer story, but

1073
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,760
Speaker 10: he basically kidnapped me at one point, a very frightening

1074
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 10: hurry what I mean you know, I mean, if you

1075
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 10: want to do if you I mean, it's a twenty

1076
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 10: minute story, so I could come back and tell you.

1077
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 10: But I mean I went to interview him, and I

1078
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 10: asked him a question he did not like, and there

1079
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:58,919
Speaker 10: was a long it's about a half hour where where

1080
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,319
Speaker 10: I was not allowed to leave the office no longer

1081
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:03,359
Speaker 10: than happened, whereas not allowed to leave the office when

1082
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 10: I wanted to, and a solid period of time when

1083
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 10: there was a young blood standing beside sug and I

1084
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 10: thought he at any moment he's gonna say, okay, go

1085
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 10: beat him up, and then he would like destroy me.

1086
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:21,240
Speaker 10: I So, I mean there was about maybe an hour

1087
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 10: that I was like trapped in his office and like

1088
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 10: wanting to leave in death row, and like I'm not

1089
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 10: able to leave because he's like, you know, you're gonna

1090
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 10: sit there and you know.

1091
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 8: He's so. He is a horrible person.

1092
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 10: He is known to have, you know, dangled people off

1093
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 10: of balconies and held a gun to people's head to

1094
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 10: get them to sign a contract that they should not

1095
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 10: have been signing. And he was kind of known for

1096
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 10: like barging into your office and stealing your pants, right

1097
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 10: like that happened several I mean the first time I

1098
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 10: wanted to interview him, I called somebody an executive and

1099
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 10: they were like, don't just don't, don't do it because

1100
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 10: it just you know, you don't know what kind of

1101
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 10: can of worms that could open up, you don't, you know,

1102
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 10: just like, don't talk to the gangster.

1103
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 8: Just don't get his attention.

1104
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,840
Speaker 10: He's a horrible person who is absolutely exploiting people, who's

1105
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 10: absolutely beating people up. So the doc definitely.

1106
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 8: Makes shop Meddles that, yes, make Shook look a lot

1107
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 8: better than I mean, the pox story.

1108
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 11: We could talk about the big story. Did did Puff

1109
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 11: kill Big or have something to do with it? I'm like, guys,

1110
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 11: now we're really in fantasy land.

1111
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 10: This was I don't want to say his best friend,

1112
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 10: right because I don't think he really has best friends.

1113
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 10: But like, this was his number one artist by far,

1114
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 10: This was his number one rain maker by far.

1115
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 2: Well. But and that's kind of just to give the

1116
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 2: way the documentary portrays it. I mean, that's actually the

1117
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 2: motive that they that they use to portray, like that's

1118
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 2: actually why he wanted him out of the way, because

1119
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 2: Big was the star. He was sucking up the oxygen

1120
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,919
Speaker 2: did he wanted to be that number one artist and

1121
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 2: he was kind of in the way. And so you know,

1122
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 2: whereas with Pocket's like he got these gangsters in a

1123
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 2: room and was like, I want this guy dead. With Big,

1124
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 2: it was like, okay, we know it's very dangerous in LA.

1125
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 6: Big does not want to be there. I'm going to

1126
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 6: let me.

1127
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 2: Let me just finish what the documentaries are, then you

1128
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 2: can tell me what you know about the situation.

1129
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 6: So Big does not want to be there.

1130
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 2: They play interview of him talking about how, you know,

1131
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 2: how sort of nervous and uncomfortable he is.

1132
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 6: Not only does not only.

1133
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 2: Is he there, does like did he like forces him

1134
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 2: to go, But then they extend it Big was supposed

1135
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 2: to go to some I don't know interview in the

1136
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 2: UK or something like that, and they're like, no, cancel

1137
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 2: your flight. You're going to stay there. We're going to

1138
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 2: do this big party. And then that's when he ends

1139
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 2: up getting murdered. So it's not like the doc doesn't

1140
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 2: portray it like oh Diddy ordered this hit, but basically

1141
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 2: that he intentionally put his life no way at risk

1142
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 2: sort of hoping that something like this might happen.

1143
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 6: Is the is the subtext of what the documentary lays.

1144
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 10: The notion that somebody could just tell Big what to do.

1145
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 8: Is laughable.

1146
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 10: Earlier in the career, Puff had been trying to get

1147
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 10: Big to stop dealing drugs right while her making the

1148
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 10: first album, and I can't confirm if it was after

1149
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 10: the first album came out, but while they're making the

1150
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 10: first album, he's like, you know, you don't need to

1151
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 10: do that anymore, and he's like, yeah, whatever, whatever, Square whatever.

1152
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 10: Nerd so be controlling him as far as I know,

1153
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 10: because when when that was happening, when Big was in LA,

1154
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 10: he was with partly my friend Chao Coker, who's another

1155
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 10: legendary hip hop journalist, and Chao was a lot. I

1156
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 10: believe it was the last print journalist to interview him.

1157
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 10: It's very clear that Big was very happy that that

1158
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 10: trip in LA.

1159
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 8: He was not forced to go to LA. He wanted

1160
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 8: to go to LA.

1161
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 10: He chose to extend his stay in LA because he

1162
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 10: was having good time. The weed out there is much

1163
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 10: more potent than the weed in New York City, so

1164
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 10: being like he was like, we're staying here, like this

1165
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 10: is cool. The notion that Puff wanted to have a

1166
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 10: party on enemy territory, the party where Big got killed

1167
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 10: was a Vibe party, not a Puff party. Okay, did

1168
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 10: he throw a party while they were out there.

1169
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 8: I'm trying to remember.

1170
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 10: I remember Nas telling me about I think it was

1171
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 10: a puff party, but it would have been like in

1172
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 10: the hills, not like at a club in the middle

1173
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 10: of the city. The other thing you referenced the video

1174
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 10: the interview of Big saying I'm scared right with the

1175
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 10: red shirt where he's laying down, and then right after

1176
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 10: that they show March ninth, here's what happened at the

1177
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 10: Peterson Autum Museum. So that interview where he's in the

1178
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 10: red shirt and he's laying down, he's talking to me.

1179
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 10: That's my interview from the first album. That interview at

1180
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 10: that point is a year and a half, two years old.

1181
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 10: So he's talking about the street he came into the game.

1182
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 10: He was actually a dealer, and he was afraid that

1183
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 10: somebody on the street was gonna shoot him.

1184
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 8: So we talked about that a lie.

1185
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 10: I had interviewed him before that for The New York

1186
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 10: Times and we talked about that a lot. So then

1187
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 10: when we were doing this video interview, I cued him

1188
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 10: to talk about that again because I knew that he

1189
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 10: was very scared.

1190
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 8: So he's talking.

1191
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,800
Speaker 10: So the documentary is very clever, and the way that

1192
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 10: it places this clip from much earlier next to him

1193
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 10: getting killed, he's not talking. It makes you think he's

1194
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 10: talking about I'm scared this moment, and then Puff makes

1195
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 10: me go to LA and then this shit happens.

1196
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 8: No, no, no, no no. He was scared earlier of other people,

1197
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 8: not the game.

1198
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 10: His vibe during the battle was like, you know, I'm

1199
01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 10: not scared, Like you know, I'm gonna move around, like

1200
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 10: you know, these guys are talking their shit, but like

1201
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 10: I'm not scared of these guys. So I mean, you know,

1202
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 10: there's a lot of sort of circumstantial thing of like

1203
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 10: Puff pushed La. Puff push Push pushed Big into a

1204
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 10: complicated situation in La he shouldn't have been there and

1205
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 10: made him stay long. I dispute that entire characterization. I

1206
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 10: feel like Big chose to go to LA. He was

1207
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 10: enjoying himself, he wanted to stay longer. I don't put

1208
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 10: anything on Puff. You Now, you could say maybe Puff

1209
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 10: should have been like, we got to get out of here,

1210
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 10: but I don't really think. I don't know that they

1211
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 10: really thought that somebody would do that. I mean, like

1212
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 10: thought somebody might do that. I'm sure they wouldn't have

1213
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 10: been there. It was surely dangerous and contentious. And you know,

1214
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 10: I know people were talking shit about.

1215
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 8: Him on the radio.

1216
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 10: I know they went to the mall and people were

1217
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 10: talking shit, and like it was like, you know, it's

1218
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 10: drama out here.

1219
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 8: You know, it's it's loud and there's a lot of noise.

1220
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 10: But I don't think they really thought somebody's gonna roll

1221
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 10: up and shoot this guy. I really don't think they

1222
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 10: they I think if they thought that, they would have

1223
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 10: left for sure. But I don't think they really thought that.

1224
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 10: I don't I just don't buy that story.

1225
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 2: And then after he's murdered, and actually this moment culturally

1226
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 2: has been revisited in the wake of with Erica Kirk

1227
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 2: and doing her grief tour and thing and whatever. Did

1228
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 2: he really capitalizes I think this is fair to say

1229
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 2: on the death of his recording artists Big and Friend,

1230
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 2: and you know, that's when he really ascends to sort

1231
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 2: of solo superstardom, and he's wearing the white jacket and

1232
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 2: he's doing the you know, his whole thing, which again

1233
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 2: is like culturally relevant again, and they also talk about

1234
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 2: how he was trying to screw over you know Biggs

1235
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 2: family in terms of like secretly changing the contract provisions.

1236
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,080
Speaker 2: There's also this anecdote, and you can speak to this

1237
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 2: because you've done some reporting on this that prior to

1238
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 2: Big getting murdered, he was supposed to be on the

1239
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 2: cover of Rolling Stone and did he freaks out as like,

1240
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 2: absolutely not that cover is going to be for me.

1241
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 2: So talk about some of those pieces, because that's the

1242
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 2: other side of it, is like, because they're trying to

1243
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 2: make the case that he intentionally and was in a

1244
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 2: position to profit and ascend off the death of his friend.

1245
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 10: He does profit and ascend from that moment, for sure.

1246
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 8: I completely believe that he.

1247
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 10: Changed the contract and thus took millions away from BIG's family.

1248
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 10: And I spoke to somebody who was inside Bad Boy

1249
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 10: who said that sounds very likely.

1250
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 2: And you find just Kirk Burrows is not his name,

1251
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 2: who's the co founder a Bad Boy, and he's very

1252
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 2: central to a lot of the storytelling here. You find

1253
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 2: him to be compelling and reliable narrative.

1254
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 8: I know Kirk.

1255
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 10: I'm watching the doc and many of the things he's saying,

1256
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 10: I'm like, yes, that's right, Yes, you are in a

1257
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 10: position to know that more than anybody else, especially something

1258
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:16,720
Speaker 10: like a contract being changed. Kirk would be the one

1259
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 10: that you would go to like is this true or not.

1260
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 10: There's definitely other things that we could talk about momentarily

1261
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 10: that Kirk said that I know to not be true.

1262
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 10: You know, and I'm not going to use the L word.

1263
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 10: I know Kirk, he's telling it from his perspective. I

1264
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 10: know other things to be true. I have at least

1265
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 10: two sources that say, don't think that Big was forced

1266
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 10: to pay for his own funeral, like from inside Bad

1267
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 10: Boy that people are like, yes, he would have tried it,

1268
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 10: and people inside a Pie would have been like, Nah, dude,

1269
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 10: we cannot We're not doing that.

1270
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 8: So I don't think that that happened.

1271
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 10: Now, I'll give you breaking points exclusive the first time

1272
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 10: I'm talking about this because I just nailed this down

1273
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 10: fifteen minutes ago. I've been trying to nail this down

1274
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 10: for four days and finally just fifteen minutes ago. In

1275
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:14,720
Speaker 10: the Dock, it says Big was supposed to be on

1276
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 10: the cover of Rolling Stone to promote his second album,

1277
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 10: Life After Death, and then after his death, Puff called

1278
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 10: Rolling Stone and said, I'm taking that cover, right, you

1279
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 10: just referenced that. So when Kirk said that, I was like, Okay,

1280
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 10: I was at Rolling Stone for many, many years, right,

1281
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 10: I'm part of the long term rolling Stone family. I'm like,

1282
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 10: that is not how anything goes. No outsider could ever

1283
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 10: call and say, hey, I'm taking the cover, right. I mean,

1284
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 10: maybe Bruce Springsteen, because he's super close friends with Joan Wenner,

1285
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 10: could call and be like, hey, I got an album

1286
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 10: come out, can you make roueer me on the cover?

1287
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 8: But not like I'm telling you.

1288
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 10: So I called my old friends to try to figure

1289
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 10: out what really happened.

1290
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 8: I nailed down.

1291
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,040
Speaker 10: I spoke to just this morning, the woman who was

1292
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 10: the photo director at that time, who she just got

1293
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 10: off the or got off email with the person who

1294
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 10: was the editor in chief at that time, and talking

1295
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 10: about how did Puff come to be on the cover.

1296
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 10: Biggie was never supposed to be on the cover period.

1297
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 10: Rolling Stone at that point in history, when Biggie was

1298
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 10: making Life After Death would not have put a rapper

1299
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 10: on the cover. Yan Winner at that moment did not

1300
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 10: think a rapper was big enough to be on the cover.

1301
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 10: So there is no truth to the idea that Puff

1302
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 10: took the cover from Big In the wake of I'll

1303
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 10: Be Missing You becoming this gigantic monster single, the editor

1304
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 10: in chief of Rolling Stone said we should try to

1305
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 10: get him on the cover. And because he had this

1306
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 10: monster single and was willing to take his shirt off

1307
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 10: for the photo and was willing to wear Calvin Klein underwear,

1308
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 10: because they were a big advertiser. Because of all of

1309
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 10: that monster single, you know, big in the news and

1310
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 10: this amazing photograph with your shirt off and all that.

1311
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:17,280
Speaker 10: Because of all that, they were able to convince Yan Winner, Okay,

1312
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:20,559
Speaker 10: we'll put Puff on the cover. But this was not

1313
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:24,600
Speaker 10: motivated by Puff, and this was not a rejection or

1314
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 10: narrature of Big. So that is something that I can

1315
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 10: definitively say. Kirk Burrows is incorrect there right, And the

1316
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 10: entire story he's telling there is completely incorrect. And I

1317
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:36,600
Speaker 10: spoke to the two people who were closest to that

1318
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:38,440
Speaker 10: decision just today.

1319
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 2: At the very end, you know, because Kirk is an

1320
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 2: important narrator throughout, which makes a lot of sense narratively,

1321
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 2: because he knew Puff for so long. Like you said,

1322
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:50,759
Speaker 2: he's in a position to know this. He's co founding

1323
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 2: bad Boy Records, He's seeing the ins and outs getting

1324
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 2: pushed to the side, like witnessing all this behavior, and

1325
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 2: then at the end he reveals, you know, his own

1326
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 2: allegation that he was actually assaulted by Diddy. You know,

1327
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:07,599
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about that, and because we've talked

1328
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:11,680
Speaker 2: a lot about like the violent allegations here, but you know,

1329
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 2: they're obviously throughout the documentary and we know now on

1330
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:19,760
Speaker 2: the public record, the you know, the horrific abuse that

1331
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 2: he subjected any number of people to.

1332
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 10: I mean, I did not know that Kirk was going

1333
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,720
Speaker 10: to say that. I was, you know, obviously moved by that.

1334
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 10: You know, you feel horrible, and I completely believe him.

1335
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 10: I believe almost let me just say, I believe.

1336
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 2: I feel like that would be a hard thing to

1337
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:40,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like that would be a very

1338
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,599
Speaker 2: hard thing to come forward with as well, Like that's

1339
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:45,759
Speaker 2: not an easy thing to put out in the public.

1340
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 10: I believe Kirk. I believe that Puff was had essayed

1341
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:57,519
Speaker 10: or any number of men. I spoke for a long

1342
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 10: time to Little Rod about what happened to him. He

1343
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,559
Speaker 10: told me the same story and in more detail than

1344
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 10: he goes into in the dock. So yeah, I mean

1345
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 10: I believe it. Puff was definitely known to rufie or

1346
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 10: drug people. So I shouldn't say rufie because he was

1347
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:20,759
Speaker 10: using something that was much more potent. And multiple people

1348
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:24,160
Speaker 10: who do not know each other talked about being given

1349
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:30,719
Speaker 10: a drug and feeling being unwittingly drugged right generally through

1350
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:33,639
Speaker 10: a drink that they were that puff was conzan.

1351
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 8: Let's take a drink.

1352
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 10: Let's take a drink, and then suddenly you are feeling

1353
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:41,760
Speaker 10: way out of it and like people are like, you know,

1354
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 10: large chunks of memory gone, like loss of control of

1355
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:47,679
Speaker 10: my body. I mean, I have men and women both

1356
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 10: who have said this to me. So I believe it

1357
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 10: that he you know, to establish dominance, to you know,

1358
01:10:55,400 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 10: to be depraved, you know that he was incapacitating people's drugs,

1359
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:03,719
Speaker 10: people and then taking advantage of them. I completely believe

1360
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 10: that that happened many, many times.

1361
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:07,720
Speaker 8: You know.

1362
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 10: It's it's shocking that that did not come up in

1363
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:15,400
Speaker 10: this documentary much more because they because lil Rod and

1364
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 10: Kirk and I believe somebody else talk about being essay,

1365
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 10: but they don't talk about him drugging people.

1366
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:21,600
Speaker 8: And he was.

1367
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 6: I mean Aubrey Aubrey with Danny Kaine.

1368
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 10: Aubrey O'Day yeah, I mean, from what we know Puff

1369
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:33,120
Speaker 10: and his drugging was you know, was making we probably

1370
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:35,600
Speaker 10: could have shown Bill Cosby some things like we're on

1371
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 10: that level with it, you know.

1372
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 8: So, I mean I believe Kirk on that for sure.

1373
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 2: I wanted to talk about in your analysis on your

1374
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 2: rap Latte channel, you said that you thought there was

1375
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 2: a really big missed opportunity in this documentary to dig

1376
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 2: into the death of kim Porter.

1377
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:53,679
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1378
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 10: I mean a lot of us find kim Porter, his wife,

1379
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 10: mother of three of the children. Her death I believe

1380
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:05,639
Speaker 10: at forty seven from pneumonia to be like, very strange.

1381
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 10: You died of pneumonia as like a forty something possible.

1382
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 10: It's possible, but it does not sound likely. And there's

1383
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 10: definitely a lot of people who are like, what's going

1384
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:22,560
Speaker 10: on there? And I think if the it seems that

1385
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 10: the tone of the dock, the undercurrent of the doc

1386
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 10: was let's make Puff look horrible. What can we say

1387
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 10: that would make him look horrible. We're going to talk

1388
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 10: about cc Y, We're going to talk about you know,

1389
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 10: him maybe of killing Puck, We're going to talk about

1390
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 10: maybe killing Big. Why not talk about him maybe killing

1391
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:43,719
Speaker 10: kim Because that's something that a lot of people believe.

1392
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:46,720
Speaker 6: And what would be the what would be the motive there,

1393
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 6: what was going on at that time.

1394
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:53,240
Speaker 10: I'm not entirely steeped on that, but you know, there's

1395
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:57,559
Speaker 10: entirely any number of things that she could have been.

1396
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 10: It could have been that she wanted to out him

1397
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 10: on certain things that she was upset about. It could

1398
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 10: have been that that you know, that she because she

1399
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 10: had left him. I mean, like, you know, the why

1400
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:16,719
Speaker 10: I can't nail down, but the I mean.

1401
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 2: The power piece just that she left, you know, I mean,

1402
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:22,280
Speaker 2: this is someone who's clearly obsessed with power and dominance.

1403
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 10: I mean, not alone, could be I mean, you know,

1404
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 10: it's just that if you wanted to destroy his image,

1405
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:32,560
Speaker 10: I think you would want to go down that.

1406
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 3: Now.

1407
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:36,400
Speaker 8: Look, you know, fifty is a supertrol.

1408
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 3: You know.

1409
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:40,400
Speaker 10: That has been his vibe in hip hop from the beginning.

1410
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 10: I remember a while ago he had this whole Twitter

1411
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 10: rant about his dog Oprah, and he was and so

1412
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 10: then he was be talking about that bitch Oprah, that

1413
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:53,960
Speaker 10: bitch Oprah. I'm gonna make that bitch do this. I'm

1414
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:56,200
Speaker 10: gonna make that bitch do that. And then people be

1415
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:59,080
Speaker 10: like you talking about Oprah. No, I'm talking about my

1416
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:01,759
Speaker 10: dog Oprah. But of course he was talking about Oprah Winfrey.

1417
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:05,840
Speaker 10: Right with the plausible deniability. This is the trolling fifty.

1418
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 10: His whole career starts with him attacking jaw Rule and

1419
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:14,479
Speaker 10: trolling Jaw Rule, and then he's attacking other people in

1420
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:16,559
Speaker 10: the game. He attacked jay Z, I mean his whole

1421
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 10: His first single was called how to Rob, where he

1422
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:23,760
Speaker 10: explains how he would rob all the major stars in

1423
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:27,559
Speaker 10: the industry in concurrent with their image or their their

1424
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 10: hot hot song, which is actually it's kind of a

1425
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 10: funny record, but a lot of people that industry did

1426
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:36,200
Speaker 10: not find anybody at all. But he's a troll, so

1427
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 10: this fits with who he has been. That puppy is down,

1428
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 10: We're gonna get him while he's down.

1429
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 2: Interesting And so in terms of I should say, by

1430
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:51,560
Speaker 2: the way, for the lawyers, did he deny all of this?

1431
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:55,040
Speaker 2: These are all allocations, et cetera, et cetera. But you know,

1432
01:14:55,240 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 2: in terms of like a compelling piece of content, how

1433
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:03,040
Speaker 2: did you think that they did putting this together?

1434
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 8: I mean, I was riveted through the whole thing.

1435
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 10: I was definitely like, okay, I believe that Okay, don't

1436
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 10: believe that that doesn't.

1437
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:13,439
Speaker 8: Add up for me.

1438
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:17,519
Speaker 10: That's compelling that I didn't There's not much that I

1439
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:20,240
Speaker 10: didn't know, because we've been part of this story for

1440
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 10: you know, thirty some years, you know. I mean I

1441
01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:27,960
Speaker 10: was covering Pok's trial that happened during the that was

1442
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:30,640
Speaker 10: happening around the quad shooting, so the day after I

1443
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 10: saw him wheelchaired into the trials. So I mean, like,

1444
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:38,479
Speaker 10: you know, this has been part of our professional life

1445
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:40,000
Speaker 10: and our conversations for a long time.

1446
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:41,720
Speaker 8: So I mean, this isn't new to me.

1447
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:46,040
Speaker 10: But I mean, like it's a good piece of work.

1448
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:49,560
Speaker 10: I guess, as far as documentaries go, finding people like

1449
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 10: Kirk gives it a lot of credibility. I think because

1450
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 10: he's so important to the history of Bad Boy and

1451
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:02,080
Speaker 10: he knows Puff from so far back. I just know

1452
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:06,439
Speaker 10: that there's messiness in it, there's recklessness in it. There's

1453
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 10: moments that are.

1454
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:12,400
Speaker 2: Just not true interesting very interesting. Well, I mean it

1455
01:16:12,439 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 2: definitely is very compelling to watch. I think you're right.

1456
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 2: Kirk comes across, He comes across as very credible, you know,

1457
01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 2: as the kind of central storyteller here. And you know,

1458
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:26,640
Speaker 2: I had no surprise to people that did he is

1459
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:29,080
Speaker 2: an absolute horrible monster, just given what we've seen on

1460
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:31,559
Speaker 2: camera from him with Cassie, if nothing else.

1461
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:34,599
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, I mean like just absurd horrible.

1462
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:37,840
Speaker 2: All right, Tore, thank you very much. Tell people where

1463
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:40,360
Speaker 2: they can follow you, find you all that good stuff.

1464
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:42,240
Speaker 8: Follow me on rap Latte.

1465
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:46,680
Speaker 10: Come to my YouTube channel tore Tube, and watch my

1466
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:49,880
Speaker 10: new show that you reference How Why Did They break Up?

1467
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:53,280
Speaker 10: Where we talk talk to people about a romantic breakup

1468
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:56,799
Speaker 10: that they went through. It's kind of this wild breakup stories.

1469
01:16:57,520 --> 01:17:01,040
Speaker 6: Yeah. Also, I mean you are like a with TikTok superstar.

1470
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:02,640
Speaker 6: Thank you incredible.

1471
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:05,559
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's fun. I love I love that. I love

1472
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:06,200
Speaker 8: the TikTok.

1473
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 3: See.

1474
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 2: I have been trying to like make myself do it

1475
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:12,160
Speaker 2: and I'll like go for a little while and then

1476
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 2: I sort of fall off because it does require it

1477
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:18,680
Speaker 2: requires a lot of focus. And you've you've really nailed it.

1478
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 2: You've kind of really gotten into the format the medium.

1479
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 10: Well, I want to be more on YouTube like you

1480
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 10: you're like the YouTube star of Like I need to

1481
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:28,559
Speaker 10: go over there.

1482
01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 4: There's more time.

1483
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:32,479
Speaker 10: I mean, like you know, you do it in depth TikTok.

1484
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 10: It can take a couple hours out of your day.

1485
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:38,599
Speaker 10: You know, I'm like, maybe this time we've better spent

1486
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:41,080
Speaker 10: over there on YouTube. So I'm trying to trying to

1487
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:41,640
Speaker 10: live up to you.

1488
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:44,040
Speaker 8: What you're doing, all right, well, we'll have to.

1489
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 2: We'll exchange tips in any case to write thank you,

1490
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:49,360
Speaker 2: appreciate You've always great to see you for sure,