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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal

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Speaker 1: and Sager. We're going to be totally upfront with you.

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Speaker 1: weekly ask me any things, and you don't need to

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Speaker 1: com become a Premium member today, which is available in

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Speaker 1: the show notes. Enjoy the show, guys, Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 1: I hope you all had a wonderful labor Day weekend.

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Speaker 1: Marshal Costs office back in the house with us. Marshall,

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Speaker 1: it's great to see you man. Thanks for joining us. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: great to have me back here and everyone, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for our support. If you were after Thursday's show,

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Speaker 1: I had an amazing time and I know we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have a really great time together on Tuesday. Quick reminder

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Speaker 1: of Crystal is back on Thursday and you can see

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Speaker 1: me on Breaking Points. Clips of the Realignment podcast that

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Speaker 1: are posted here on Wednesday. Lots of great stuff between

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Speaker 1: Soccer and I. As we will point out, we are

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Speaker 1: three hundred subscribers away from getting the channel to fifty.

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Speaker 1: Case would love anyone who enjoyed this episode to go

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Speaker 1: check us out there. Go ahead and help us out there, folks,

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Speaker 1: Please please do us at favor. Okay, we got great

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Speaker 1: stories for everybody. So we're gonna start with the jobs report,

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Speaker 1: but we have other stuff like college. There's an alarming

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Speaker 1: drop and a number of men who are dropping out

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Speaker 1: of college. It's a big societal trend. We're going to

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Speaker 1: figure out what's going on there. Obviously there's some political

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Speaker 1: fallout from what's happening there with the Texas abortion lot.

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Speaker 1: We're going to break that all down for everybody. Trump

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Speaker 1: is making and his allies in particular, making a big

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Speaker 1: noise about running in twenty twenty four. They want to

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Speaker 1: capitalize on Biden's continually falling poll numbers the nine to

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Speaker 1: eleven papers, So Biden has moved to declassify some nine

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Speaker 1: to eleven papers. A lot of you asked about that.

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Speaker 1: We're going to break down what you need to know,

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Speaker 1: but we will start with what I think is the

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Speaker 1: biggest story of the day, of the month, really of

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Speaker 1: the year, which is the US economy. As the economy goes,

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Speaker 1: the president goes, and the party in power, and unfortunately

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Speaker 1: for Biden, fortunately for a Republican, and really I think

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Speaker 1: unfortunately for most Americans right now, the economy is not

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Speaker 1: doing so well. So let's go ahead and put this

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Speaker 1: up there on the screen, which just shows us the

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Speaker 1: recovery in terms of the hit that we just took

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Speaker 1: in August. So we added far fewer jobs than most

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Speaker 1: economists had expected, only two hundred and thirty five thousand.

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Speaker 1: Largely this is due to the delta variant, but there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of other discussion, and the unemployment rate has

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Speaker 1: now fallen slightly to five point two percent. But the

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Speaker 1: real story is actually beneath those numbers, go ahead and

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Speaker 1: put the next one up there on the screen, and

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Speaker 1: you can actually see exactly where the loss in jobs is.

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Speaker 1: Retail lost twenty nine thousand jobs, restaurants forty two thousand.

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Speaker 1: So you saw gains in other areas, got seventy four

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Speaker 1: thousand there in the business sector fifty three thousand, in

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Speaker 1: warehouse thirty seven thousand, manufacturing thirty six thousand, entertainment seventeen thousand.

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Speaker 1: It so basically the delta variant, the pandemic restrictions, lockdowns,

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Speaker 1: that is just completely dragging down the US economy and really, Marshall,

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Speaker 1: this is a major problem for Joe Biden, and he

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Speaker 1: essentially acknowledges such in a speech. He was like, look,

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Speaker 1: it's because the delta variant, and that is partially true,

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Speaker 1: but also it is because of policy that is now

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Speaker 1: being affected in some of the nation's largest states. You know,

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Speaker 1: return here in Washington, DC to mask mandates. Oregon same thing.

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Speaker 1: California as well has got some sort of pandemic restrictions.

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Speaker 1: You pair that with general consumer confidence and the inability

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Speaker 1: to go into a restaurant, and you have a disaster.

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Speaker 1: I mean, just so people understand the two hundred and

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Speaker 1: thirty five thousand dollars or two hundred thirty five thousand

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Speaker 1: jobs which were added. That was seven hundred thousand less

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Speaker 1: than what was expected. So obviously stock market goes into

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Speaker 1: a tail span. But really what it is is these

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Speaker 1: are the types of numbers that we were used to

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Speaker 1: seeing back in January of twenty twenty one. Not it

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Speaker 1: was not supposed to be this way in September. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest political liability that Joe Biden

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Speaker 1: has right now. Yeah, I mean, look, everyone, the real

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Speaker 1: problem here is that the delta variant, regardless of how

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Speaker 1: you feel about the individual mandates or the specific policies,

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Speaker 1: as just completely bold over everything. It bowed over the

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Speaker 1: confidence that everyone had. It bowled over the Biden administrations

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Speaker 1: helps that they could turn the page in all these things.

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Speaker 1: And here's what I'm really worried about. I'm worried about winter.

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Speaker 1: If there's this lack of confidence right now, what happens

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Speaker 1: when the winter surge, which we could expect no matter what,

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Speaker 1: what happens when that happens exactly right, And this is

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Speaker 1: why I'm actually really beginning to get worried. And you

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Speaker 1: can already. See if I was the White House, I'd

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Speaker 1: be freaking out. So they tried to they tried to

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Speaker 1: spin this a little bit from the Council of Economic Advisors,

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Speaker 1: but there is no spinning this grapt folks. Just to

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Speaker 1: show you exactly how bad it is for them, let's

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Speaker 1: go ahead and put that up there on the screen,

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Speaker 1: the Council of Economic Advisors. You can see the curve.

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Speaker 1: Now they try to put it this way. Today's job

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Speaker 1: supports show the economy added two hundred thirty five thousand.

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Speaker 1: That's an average gain of seven hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: over the last three months. For those who are just listening,

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Speaker 1: you can see a precipitous increase in the monthly job growth.

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Speaker 1: You saw eight hundred thousand, then you saw a million,

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Speaker 1: and then the precipitous eight hundred thousand drop in a

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Speaker 1: single month from July to August of twenty one. So

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Speaker 1: that is the problem that they are seeing in the

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Speaker 1: White House right now. Not only did they see a

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Speaker 1: massive decline in the number of new jobs added to

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Speaker 1: the economy, but as we saw, the sectors which were

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Speaker 1: driving the growth growth previously, those are now losing jobs.

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Speaker 1: So what does that mean, it means that consumer confidence

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Speaker 1: is beginning to plummet, which is actually the first thing

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Speaker 1: that we already saw on retail consumer confidence, people's willingness

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Speaker 1: to go out and eat, that is beginning to go down.

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Speaker 1: As you pair that with mask mandates, vaccine mandates, whatever

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Speaker 1: policy which is being put into place in some of

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Speaker 1: the nation's most populous states, you're going to have a

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Speaker 1: real issue. And it's interesting and I think it is important.

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Speaker 1: You know, many Republicans are pointing to this, and they

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Speaker 1: did this a lot during the pandemic and are saying

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Speaker 1: this is purely because of blue state lockdown. So that

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Speaker 1: is just simply not the case. But I will say

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Speaker 1: that in the age of the vaccine, in the age

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Speaker 1: of vaccine efficacy, and really in the age of I

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Speaker 1: personally think, you know, having to live and learn that

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Speaker 1: COVID is likely to be a largely endemic disease, especially

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Speaker 1: given where winter is, policy is going to matter a

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Speaker 1: lot more than it did back in January November of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty. And I'll tell you why, which is that

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Speaker 1: at that time when we had to make a trade off,

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Speaker 1: or at least what we were thinking about as a

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Speaker 1: trade off between protecting the elderly and you know, having

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Speaker 1: dining capacity or whatever a twenty five percent I understand,

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Speaker 1: you know, and clearly I was on the wrong side

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Speaker 1: of public opinion, but you know, generally, what I was

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Speaker 1: saying was like, I think that that is a case

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Speaker 1: where I think the American people would support that. Now

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Speaker 1: that you do have a vaccine with you know, ninety

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Speaker 1: nine point nine whatever percent efficacy in protecting elderly from

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Speaker 1: death and hospitalization, then that's a different situation. So I

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Speaker 1: do think that the American people's willingness, which was overestimated

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Speaker 1: at the time and especially now for dealing with and

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Speaker 1: I'm not talking necessarily about mass man dates. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about what we had here in Washington, which was like

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Speaker 1: twenty five percent restriction on indoor dining. I do not

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Speaker 1: think that that is going to remain there, although I

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Speaker 1: could be wrong. What do you think? Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: here's the problem. The reason why this has become so

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Speaker 1: controversial is that disease control policies are a mix of

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Speaker 1: public policy and politics. And I talked about this on Thursday.

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Speaker 1: But I just think as much as we can, if

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Speaker 1: we could try to depriticize this as much as possible,

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Speaker 1: that would be the huge thing. And once again you're

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Speaker 1: seeing these cases where you're seeing blue states overreach. There's

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Speaker 1: a desire to say, hey, we are doing something, we're

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Speaker 1: making a move, we are going to be actually different

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Speaker 1: than the red states. That's the exact opposite what we want.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, I don't think the exact

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Speaker 1: way to do the COVID policy is just to say

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Speaker 1: what does X polling numbers say? Right, that is what

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Speaker 1: actually is going to lead to disaster, and that's where

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Speaker 1: we're seeing all these different actual results for people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you've see these very strange cultural cross cuts where it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the way that you prove that you're really

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Speaker 1: you know, hardcorees or Republicans, you ban mask mandates. The

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Speaker 1: way that you prove that you're a hardcore blue state

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Speaker 1: governor is like you bring back outdoor mask mandates. And

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Speaker 1: it's like, well, okay, like what's going on here exactly?

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Speaker 1: And look, the science around all of that is very mixed,

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Speaker 1: and we've talked a lot about here, especially whenever it

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Speaker 1: comes to children in schools, But really what we are

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Speaker 1: beginning to see, especially with the large case increase day

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Speaker 1: over day, is in the hospital is as in particular, vast, absolute,

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Speaker 1: vast majority are people who are unvaccinated, same thing whenever

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Speaker 1: it comes to the deaths, and that is why it

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Speaker 1: is concentrated largely in areas where you don't have a

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Speaker 1: large number of people who are vaccinated within the general population.

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Speaker 1: So personally, I think that that is where we should

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Speaker 1: look at. Whereas otherwise, if you are vaccinated and you

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Speaker 1: get COVID like me, which is what happened to me, Well,

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen? Yeah, six for like four days

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Speaker 1: and that sucked, don't get me wrong, But that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that that's should justify kind of some of the

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Speaker 1: more onerous restrictions that we had in the past. And

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Speaker 1: so really, as you're pointing to, if we go back

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Speaker 1: to some sort of lockdown regime like we saw back

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Speaker 1: in November and September, the economy is going to creter

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Speaker 1: in terms of what we saw last time. I mean,

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Speaker 1: especially if we see school closure, college closure, and more.

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Speaker 1: I do not know if they will close the colleges again,

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Speaker 1: but I do certainly could foresee a situation where something

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Speaker 1: like that happens. School closure, restriction on our you know, curfews,

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Speaker 1: the types of things that we saw. Again, I do

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Speaker 1: think that the economic dilatorious effect there, that's going to

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Speaker 1: have just a big problem for Biden, because as I predicted,

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Speaker 1: you know, back whenever it became present, I was like, look,

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Speaker 1: the guys only got to do two things. You got

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Speaker 1: pass these checks, get everybody vaccine, is like, and get

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Speaker 1: everybody back to normal now, for better or for worse.

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Speaker 1: And you can blame him or you cannot. The problem

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Speaker 1: is is that events are moving such that we're not

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Speaker 1: going back to normal, at least under the current the

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Speaker 1: current way that him and the White House and the

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Speaker 1: public health people are looking at this, and so he

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Speaker 1: is going to share some of the blame, as Trump

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Speaker 1: did for a rising number of cases, especially in the winter,

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Speaker 1: and as he's already the only area of public policy

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Speaker 1: where he's above fifty percent is his handling of COVID

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Speaker 1: is a fifty one percent on average. I think that's

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Speaker 1: going to begin to go down, and it's a big

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Speaker 1: problem for him. Yeah, And look, at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, all we could hope that public policy people

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Speaker 1: would do is identify the fact that all that actually

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Speaker 1: matters in the discussion you just gave is getting people vaccinate,

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Speaker 1: you do that trust in a trustworthy way. The vaccine

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Speaker 1: passport thing obviously did not work from a pure how

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Speaker 1: do we ensure consumer confidence in anything? So how do

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Speaker 1: you actually get this done? When despite what I said earlier,

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Speaker 1: this is just so puticized. So that's what the number

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Speaker 1: one question that every single policy maker should be asking here,

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Speaker 1: because as we're seeing in all these blue and red states,

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Speaker 1: when you swing too far to the other direction, there

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Speaker 1: actually really is backlash and that isn't sustainable one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent ride. Okay, so let's move on to the next one.

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Speaker 1: This is a very interesting story in Marshall, ed's a

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Speaker 1: little bit more on your radar than it is mind radar.

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Speaker 1: You guys, see what I did there, And let's go

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Speaker 1: ahead and put this up there on the screen. So, Biden,

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Speaker 1: the President has moved to declassify some documents related to

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven. So it's an executive order. The President

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Speaker 1: instructed the Attorney General to publicly release the documents over

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Speaker 1: the next six months. Now. There's been a lot of

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Speaker 1: controversy around these documents, allegations, especially from the families of

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Speaker 1: the victims of the nine to eleven attacks, who said

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Speaker 1: that the government has to reveal more information and about

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Speaker 1: Saudi involvement in financing these attacks. This is really important,

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Speaker 1: especially as we're coming up on the twentieth anniversary of

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven last month, and I suspect this is

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Speaker 1: what the impetus was. Let's put this up there. From

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Speaker 1: NBC News, eighteen hundred of the families told Joe Biden,

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Speaker 1: do not bother to come to our memorial events if

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Speaker 1: you are not going to declassify these documents. And you'll remember, Marshall,

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Speaker 1: this has been a huge part of US politics now

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Speaker 1: for quite some time. The Obama administration went and vetoed

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Speaker 1: that bill that passed unanimously through the Senate which allowed

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Speaker 1: the victims of the nine to eleven attacks actually sue

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Speaker 1: the Saudi government. There were, of course, the infamous nineteen

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Speaker 1: pages which were left out of the nine to eleven

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Speaker 1: Commission report, which implicated Saudi officials, and again I don't

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Speaker 1: want to get too conspiratorial, but in terms of their involvement,

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Speaker 1: there was like that Saudi consulate figure right, who had

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Speaker 1: some interaction with some of the explicitly the nine to

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Speaker 1: eleven hijackers, helping them find apartments and all of that.

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Speaker 1: Anybody who's looking for more reading on this, I recommend

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Speaker 1: the Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright, kind of the definitive

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Speaker 1: story of that will lead up to nine to eleven,

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Speaker 1: all the background, the actual interplay, the screw up of

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Speaker 1: government and all of that. But ultimately, are we likely

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Speaker 1: to learn anything new in these declassified documents? Marshall, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's really important to tell the story in terms

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Speaker 1: of what actually happens. So nine to eleven, twenty years ago,

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Speaker 1: fifteen of the nineteen hijackers come from Saudi Arabia. We

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Speaker 1: actually saw this come up with a lot of younger

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Speaker 1: listeners and viewers who are asking, wait a second, what

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Speaker 1: did Afghanistan has to do with nine eleven. It seems

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Speaker 1: like Saudi Arabia played a huge part of that what

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Speaker 1: actually happened there. So this was handled in the two

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Speaker 1: thousand and four nine to eleven Commission report, where the

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Speaker 1: report concluded that top levels of said of the Saudi

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Speaker 1: Arabian government this is the monarchy. Senior officials did not

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Speaker 1: play a role in funding or actually supporting the nine

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Speaker 1: eleven hijackers. Here's the key thing, though, senior officials. That

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Speaker 1: wording in the report actually suggested that there was some

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Speaker 1: level of mid to junior level governmental involvement. So moving forward,

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Speaker 1: if you are a family member of a victim of

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven, and everyone here is obviously victim nine eleven,

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Speaker 1: in that case you were wondering, hey, can we sue

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Speaker 1: the Saudi Arabian government? Can we sue Saudi Arabian charities who,

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Speaker 1: through hobbist connections, actually played some role in funding and

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Speaker 1: supporting the attacks. It was possible to sue the charities,

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Speaker 1: It was possible to sue non governmental organizations, but it

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Speaker 1: was not possible to actually sue the Saudi Arabian government.

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Speaker 1: That is the policy you're talking when you're describing what

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Speaker 1: happened in twenty sixteen with the OBIOA administration that ended

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Speaker 1: up passing. It was actually possible now after the Obia

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Speaker 1: administration to sue a Saudi Arabian government over possible involvement.

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Speaker 1: Now to twenty nineteen, Second Attorney General bar actually actually

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Speaker 1: vetoed the further declassification of information regarding Saudi involvement in

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven. So now taking to us to this

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Speaker 1: very week, there's not going to be this six month

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Speaker 1: process to further declassify information. Once again, the key thing

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Speaker 1: that is not particularly in dispute the Saudi monarchy, the

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Speaker 1: head and top of the Saudi government hated asam bin Laden.

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Speaker 1: That is not the claim. The concerned is storry about

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Speaker 1: what did the actual underbelly and low level parts of

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Speaker 1: that Saudi society look like, and what does it actually

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Speaker 1: look like to actually rectify what we used attempt to

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Speaker 1: basically rectify what happened twenty years ago, because obviously because

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Speaker 1: of the governmental involvement, this isn't a question of the

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Speaker 1: US placing sanctions or this, this or that. But is

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Speaker 1: there an avenue for revealing what actually happened? No, I

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Speaker 1: think you're right, and this is where look and the

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Speaker 1: twenty I misspoke earlier. It's not the nineteen pages, the

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Speaker 1: twenty eight pages, and I covered that at the time. Really,

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Speaker 1: what the main kind of revelation was is that there

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Speaker 1: was a Saudi family which had interactions with the known

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven hijackers, that there were people who were

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Speaker 1: connected in some way to the Saudi consulate and here

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Speaker 1: in the United States to the hijackers themselves, now with

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Speaker 1: the Saudi government and others had said that was completely coincidental.

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Speaker 1: It's because they were just Saudis and they heard them

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Speaker 1: speaking Arabic and a cafe. Okay, you know, you can

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Speaker 1: say whatever you want. That being said, there needs to

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Speaker 1: be some really coming clean with the American people because

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Speaker 1: this was the problem is that the government actually did

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Speaker 1: itself a disservice all the way back in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and four, which is, as you said, many Americans said, hey,

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Speaker 1: fifteen of these nineteen people were Saudis, so what's going

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Speaker 1: on there? Well, they went ahead and classified those twenty

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Speaker 1: eight pages of the nine to eleven Commission report, which

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Speaker 1: they explicitly and senators had told us was about the

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Speaker 1: Saudi government. So then what happens over the next twelve years,

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Speaker 1: everybody says, well, what are they hiding? What's going on?

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Speaker 1: And what it was was a clownish as usual attempt

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Speaker 1: by the Bush administration to try and shield the government

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Speaker 1: of Saudi Arabia from American public opinion, and all they

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Speaker 1: ended up doing was actually stoking government public public opinion

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Speaker 1: that the Saudis played an integral role in the nine

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Speaker 1: to eleven attacks. And as you say, basically, here's what

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Speaker 1: we know, and this I am not absolving the Saudis

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Speaker 1: of anything, because at their senior and the highest levels,

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Speaker 1: they knew exactly what bin Laden was up to. As

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Speaker 1: you said, they hated him, but they didn't necessarily wanted

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Speaker 1: to turn him over to the United States because he

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Speaker 1: himself was a Saudi citizen. He was also the child

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Speaker 1: of you know, very prominent Saudi Arabian ally, you know,

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Speaker 1: his father who started the Bin Laden construction group. All

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Speaker 1: of that interplay was that they were consistently trying to

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Speaker 1: deal with the Taliban and saying, hey, Taliban, please give

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Speaker 1: us back bin Lauden, And they knew he was planning

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Speaker 1: all sorts of nefarious attacks, but really what they cared

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Speaker 1: about was not his attacks on the United States. They

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Speaker 1: cared that he had denounced the actual regime of Saudi Arabia.

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Speaker 1: Senior Saudi officials travel to Afghanistan asked Mullah Omar, who

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Speaker 1: at the time was the leader of the Teal, and

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Speaker 1: they begged him. They said, please give him over to us.

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Speaker 1: Mullah Omar, citing the Pashtun tribal code, was like, no,

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Speaker 1: I can't. He's my guest. You know all of this anyway, Really,

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Speaker 1: what it gets to is that the Saudi officials regimes

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Speaker 1: all the way at the highest levels, they knew Bin

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Speaker 1: Laden was up to some really bad stuff. Now did

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Speaker 1: they finance the attacks or anything. Current evidence does not

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Speaker 1: suggest that. But were their officials who were inside the

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Speaker 1: Saudi regime who were very sympathetic to Bin Laden. Absolutely

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Speaker 1: were there low level officials here in the United States

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Speaker 1: connected to the Saudi government in some form who had

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Speaker 1: an interaction with the nine to eleven hijackers that is

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Speaker 1: not actually in dispute whatsoever. So for those families, I

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Speaker 1: actually feel for them, and I think that what happened

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Speaker 1: is that the Bush administration, you know, tried to protect

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Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia and in the end actually ended up building

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Speaker 1: up a far worse narrative for a lot of people

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Speaker 1: in their attempts at secrecy. And look, at least on

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Speaker 1: my end, I'm not going to go back and relitigate

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Speaker 1: what happened in two thousand and four thousand and forwards.

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Speaker 1: Actually crazy, you had the war, we were literally invading

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Speaker 1: a foreign country right next door to Saudi Arabia. At

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Speaker 1: that point, you're still dealing with a fallout from nine

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Speaker 1: to eleven. So I completely can from a pure empathy perspective,

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Speaker 1: understand the actual argument that the classification had to do

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Speaker 1: with deep, direct national security reasons. Here's where we can

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Speaker 1: get off that train where you and I agree in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, the key thing is that Bob Barr said

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Speaker 1: there were national security reasons why you could not further declassify.

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Speaker 1: I just don't buy that anymore. It has been more

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Speaker 1: than twenty it's been almost twenty years now. There has

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Speaker 1: to be an ability to actually move forward, and some

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Speaker 1: of it's a big question for our government moving forward

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Speaker 1: is how do we actually get to a balance. How

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Speaker 1: do we balance the fact that we need national security.

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Speaker 1: That's an actually important concept. It actually is important to

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Speaker 1: cooperate with our erstwhile frenemy, enemy in the country, whatever.

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Speaker 1: But how do we actually still maintain trust in the system?

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Speaker 1: I think in two thousand and four, I think this

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Speaker 1: is a much stronger argument. But as we've moved further

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Speaker 1: and further away, I think the whole actual part here

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Speaker 1: has moved towards trust. And this is actually something which look,

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Speaker 1: I think Biden should be praised for, and this is

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Speaker 1: something that I think that Obama and Trump should have

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Speaker 1: done something about. Obama and Trump all should have done

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Speaker 1: something about it was shameful whenever Obama vetoed that bill,

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Speaker 1: and look, we all know why I did it, and

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Speaker 1: the Trump administration is the same thing. Why do they

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Speaker 1: do it? Because Jared and Trump were friends with MBS

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Speaker 1: and they called him and said, please don't get as long.

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Speaker 1: This is one of the most sensitive areas. They don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know about their connections to nine to

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Speaker 1: eleven because really what it shows is that they're both derelict, incompetent, stupid,

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Speaker 1: and that they have a huge problem with radical Islam

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Speaker 1: within their own ranks, and so they have a lot

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Speaker 1: to lose the families, in my opinion, they had a

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Speaker 1: lot to gain all the way back even in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and four. The merits of that decision, you know, etc.

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Speaker 1: That can obviously be debated, but it's been twenty years.

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Speaker 1: These people deserve some information. Hey, so remember how we

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Speaker 1: told you how awesome premium membership was. Well, here we

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00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 1: are again to remind you that becoming a premium member

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00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,879
Speaker 1: means you don't have to listen to our constant please

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Speaker 1: for you to subscribe. So what are you waiting for?

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Speaker 1: Become a premium member today by going to Breakingpoints dot Com,

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00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: which you can click on in the show notes. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's get ahead to the next topic. This is a

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Speaker 1: fun one. It's been lighting up the internet from a

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Speaker 1: lot of you. So Congressman Jim Jordan, who was recently

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Speaker 1: at a fundraiser, was pressed and asked by somebody whether

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Speaker 1: Trump is going to run again. Now, the audio is

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Speaker 1: a little muddled here for the people who are just listening,

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Speaker 1: so bear with us. I'll dissect it there on the

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Speaker 1: other side. For those who are watching, we do have subtitles.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a listen. Thank you run again yesterday he's

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Speaker 1: not ready to announce that. He's really bad, really bad.

430
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: Thank you question. So he's going to run again? I

431
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 1: talked to you yesterday. He's not ready to announce. God, yeah,

432
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: he's really bad. Okay, well, thank you. So this is

433
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 1: a really interesting one. So if you missed it, the real, uh,

434
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 1: the real news that came out of the segment was

435
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 1: he said, President Trump, he's going to run again. Somebody

436
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: says you think so, he says, quote, I know, so

437
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: I talked to him yesterday. He's about ready to announce

438
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 1: after all of this craziness in Afghanistan at the very

439
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: same time, his former senior advisor Jason Miller, who now

440
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: runs that social media app Getter, which we all told

441
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: you about last show. Let's put this up there on

442
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: the screen, and gave an interview over at Cheddar on

443
00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: whether Trump isn't going to run in twenty twenty four.

444
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: He says, quote, I would say somewhere between ninety nine

445
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: and one hundred. I think he is definitely running in

446
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. Marshall, So that's a big deal. Jason

447
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: Miller was very recently his most senior communications aid in

448
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: the post presidency period, now working over at Ghetter. And

449
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 1: he go ahead and says that I don't think that

450
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: it is a coincidence that they're floating this. What do

451
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 1: you think? The key thing here is, if I'm Joe Biden,

452
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: I want nothing more than Donald Trump to announce that

453
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: he's running in twenty twenty four. Think about it this way.

454
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 1: There's this pretty common narrative that's going out there in

455
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: the mainstream media in Washington, DC, which is that the

456
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,719
Speaker 1: Biden administration feels really aimless right now. The tobacco in Afghanistan,

457
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: regardless of how you feel about the actual policy, really

458
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 1: pushed them off their agenda because their whole narrative was

459
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 1: we are focused on the economy, and we're focused on COVID,

460
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: the scandals is all. This stuff is not what they

461
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 1: actually want to deal with. So the one thing that

462
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: could reunify the really fractious party and base for them

463
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: right now is Donald Trump coming back into the forth.

464
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: The thing that's really fascinating for me here is I

465
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 1: definitely think there's a very strong chance Trump will run again,

466
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 1: but they are trying to calculate the exact moment to

467
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: do it. If they go too early, they will reunified

468
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: Joe Biden and frankly, give Joe Biden all he actually

469
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: needs to keep this back up again. If Joe Biden

470
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: could spend the next three years saying, look, COVID econ,

471
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: no more Trump, that's a very good place for him

472
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: to be in. Frankly, I think if for Donald Trump,

473
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: you want to come in in twenty twenty three with

474
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: more issues, So if there isn't this organizing principle to

475
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 1: put his presidency around, that's right. You know, it also

476
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 1: depends on how the midterms go. I mean, I generally

477
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 1: and people know this, of the opinion I think it's

478
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: going to be an absolutely massive win for the Republicans

479
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 1: based on the economy, based on the dissatisfaction numbers, and

480
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 1: largely due to the public health maneuvers. I think that

481
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: people are just absolutely sick of it right now. I

482
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: did find a fascinating head to head matchup on potential

483
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four nominees. Now keep in mind, this is Emerson.

484
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: It's not the biggest stuff, it's not the biggest ample

485
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,959
Speaker 1: size or any of that, but it is still pretty

486
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: interesting for a lot of Republicans who are going to

487
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: have to grapple with this. Let's put this on the

488
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: screen so we see Biden versus Trump. Trump is up

489
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: plus one. Biden versus Romney, Biden is up nineteen. Biden

490
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 1: versus DeSantis, Biden is up twelve. So it's interesting, Marshall.

491
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: In Washington, some circles people say, well, DeSantis is great

492
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: because on the policy he's Trump, but you know, he's

493
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: not as inarticulate, and he's not you know, crazy, and

494
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: he's not all whatever whatever your general pejorative is around

495
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: Trump from pure professionalism perspective. But here's the deal. Trump,

496
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: it seems, is a far more effective and popular politician

497
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: than DeSantis. Now, I can already hear what people are saying.

498
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: He hasn't had a chance to define himself nationally. People

499
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: don't know him as a candidate. I'm not so sure

500
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: about that. I actually think a lot of people know

501
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis's name. If you think about it, name enough

502
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: governor in the country who, regardless of how you feel,

503
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: has been such a point of contention. There are people

504
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: in California, maybe Gavin me some that honestly, maybe even

505
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: at that point. DeSantis has been at the forefront of

506
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: the COVID wars from the very beginning. I would argue

507
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: at least that other than Trump, he is the most

508
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: prominent Republican in the country, and I would really guarantee

509
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: that almost everybody in the Republican base knows his name,

510
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: and that a lot of swing voters would know his

511
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: name as well, just given the politicization around Florida, you know,

512
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: and all the He's always trending like every other day

513
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: on Twitter amongst wine moms for some reason or another.

514
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: But again, I do would point to that as evidence

515
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: that he is clearly salient within the electorate. So for

516
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: him to be trailing twelve points will Trump is up

517
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: plus one. That gives you some idea marshall of the

518
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: actual political strength that Trump continues to have. And again

519
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: you can feel whatever you want. I do look at

520
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: this and say, Donald Trump is still obviously not only

521
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: serious contender for the presidency again in twenty twenty four.

522
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 1: I would also look at this and say, if you're

523
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: there are many Republicans after Trump January sixth, in particular,

524
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:11,959
Speaker 1: who are like, well, look, we've got to stick with

525
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: the Trump policy, but not with Trump himself politically. That

526
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 1: just seems foolish in my opinion. If you know how

527
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: to read, if you know how to read a poll, well,

528
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: when we read the poll for a second, I don't

529
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: think you could take any of those numbers, the Romney

530
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: or the DeSantis. Particularly seriously, here's where I think is

531
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: happening here. The Trump poll number is the most honest

532
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: poll number in the sense that no matter what happens

533
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, the election is going to be

534
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: incredibly tight no matter who is nominated, with the exceptions

535
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,959
Speaker 1: or probably Nikki Haley or someone like that. If as

536
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: long as you frankly nominate a politically talented person who

537
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: can put together some type of coalition. It is going

538
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: to be a very tight election because our country is

539
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 1: just so polarized along that level. So because Trump has

540
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 1: run for office nationally twice, I think people are giving

541
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: as honest and answer as possible was to their level

542
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: of partisanship. You and christ have talked about this. The

543
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 1: twenty twenty election was incredibly close. That's just the true answer.

544
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: With DeSantis and even Romney, I think in both cases

545
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: people are not truly being honest with themselves about the

546
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: level of partisan identification. So let's say you did have

547
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 1: a presidential election even next year, I know those Romney

548
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: Ani Santis numbers will go to two or three. So

549
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: it's not that Desanti's is weak necessarily. I think it's

550
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: that at the end of the day, the identification hasn't

551
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: gotten to where it's actually gonna end up. Yeah, I

552
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 1: don't know. See this is interesting though, right because with Trump,

553
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: you're correct, which is that there is partisan clustering. Partisan

554
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: clustering means that basically it's like vote blue no matter who,

555
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: or vote read no matter what, which is that in

556
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: both cases, because of how you feel about certain cultural issues,

557
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: you're just going to vote Republican or you're going to

558
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: vote Democrat. The Trump superpower was that he both was

559
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: able to coalesce those votes, the Republican votes, and millions

560
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: of people who just never voted before, like all of

561
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: these brand new voters who for a variety of reasons

562
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: were like, you know what, screw lockdowns, or you know what,

563
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: I hate Democrats, or you know what, I just love Trump.

564
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: Millions of those people came out to vote, not only

565
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, but even more so in twenty twenty.

566
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: We told the story a million times. You know, you've

567
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: got the Latinos of South Texas, You've actually got a

568
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: lot of inner city minorities, Rhode Island, Providence, down Boston,

569
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: Orange County, California, Asian. I mean increases all the way

570
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: across the board. He increased his vote share amongst every

571
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: single ethnic group except for white men, where it decreased

572
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: by around seven points in the verified exit polls. So

573
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: obviously a lot to dissect there. Now with DeSantis and more,

574
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: there's no question that every normal Republican voter is going

575
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: to come out and vote for DeSantis. The question is,

576
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: are the people in the Laredo or the people in

577
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: Orange County or the people all of it, millions who

578
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: did come out to vote, and you know, came the

579
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: Trump margin of only forty five thousand votes losing the presidency.

580
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: Are those people going to come out? That's kind of

581
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: what I see in that number right there. And the

582
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: fascinating thing here from this poll to take the other

583
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: the argument I just made is basically that how if

584
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: you are because what's put me at Romney aside? He

585
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: is very comfortable. He is very comfortable not running for

586
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: president again. If you are Ronda Santis, if you are

587
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: Christy Nome of the Dakota Is, if you are DeSantis,

588
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: if you are Rick Scott, Senator from Florida, how are

589
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: you going to interpret every single thing you just said?

590
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: And what I really would probably just suppose here is

591
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,239
Speaker 1: that the lesson from this poll is that if you're

592
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: a Republican and your generic desire is to to point

593
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: Supreme Court justices, you want to beat Joe Biden, it

594
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: actually seems like Donald Trump is actually a pretty strong

595
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: actual Kennedy Also, frankly, I think if you took Joe

596
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,479
Speaker 1: Biden the fast he's the pastinating pool. I would love

597
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: to look at what do those numbers look like if

598
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris is the actual presidential nominee, what does that

599
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: look like? If Pete Boodhagje Edge is the vice president,

600
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: is the presidential nominee. That's the real question there. So

601
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: if you are a Ronda Santis, if you're looking at

602
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: this poll, the number one lesson is I need to

603
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: stop just thinking that I'm going to pull this off

604
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: by being like a side of lightly printed copy of

605
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: President Trump, because if people want that, it's Trump's for

606
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: the taking. If this all comes down to the fact

607
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: that after four years of exhaustion with Trump, people in

608
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three want to come back

609
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: to it. They are going to pick Trump, and Trump

610
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: is going to go for it. I don't see any

611
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: world where he doesn't take up the crown again to

612
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: actually close his narrative the right way. But you need

613
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: to do something different, because I do know. We've saw

614
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: it move with a video of DeSantis literally doing the

615
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: red tie doing it's not working. It's creer not working.

616
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,719
Speaker 1: You need to figure out something else. You develop your

617
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: own identity with those bits there. No, you're absolutely right. Okay,

618
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: let's get to the fallout from the Texas law. So

619
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: this has been fascinating really, which also I heard you.

620
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: I apologize for the last time I did not explain

621
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: the private right of action within the Texas law, and

622
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: so that's actually important, marshall. Can you break that down

623
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: for people on what exactly it is. Not only does

624
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: the Texas law ban abortion after six weeks, known as

625
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: a so called heartbeat mechanism, but it includes and this

626
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: is probably the most contentious part of it, private right

627
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: of action. And this matters everybody, I promise in terms

628
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: of what the corporate fallout from this has been, you know.

629
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: So the way it effectively works is if a citizen

630
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: resident of Texas discovers that an individual, a clinic, people

631
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: involved in the actual process. This could hypothetically even go

632
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: to a uber lyft driver who actually takes person to

633
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: a abortion clinic is involved, they can actually sue that person. Okay,

634
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: they can actually privately, they could privately sue establishing a

635
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: civil claim there, which is created a huge amount of

636
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: controversy obviously because in effect this is deputizing fellow citizens, residents,

637
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: et cetera. In the cases that these actually go beyond

638
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: that six week period, which has caused an incredible amount

639
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: of controversy. Is forced anyone wading into this issue to

640
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: really have to think about their action is a different

641
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: way because just to add the quick thing, the South

642
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: has been increasing abortion restrictions for over the past decade.

643
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: That's right, there's been a consistent effort to push the

644
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: bounds of Roe v. Wade. You've seen abortion quinnics close

645
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: across the South. What is truly different this time isn't

646
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: just the six weeks. It's really the lawsuits in that

647
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: private action. Yeah, that's right, and I should have explained

648
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: that previously as to why so many people are upset.

649
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: So now that context being added, now let's get to

650
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: what is happening there and how this may play out

651
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: on the national stage, because I actually do you know, look,

652
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: I think culture wars are actually what is driving most

653
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: of our politics, and this actually could have a lot

654
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: of the political salience in twenty twenty two. So let's

655
00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: put this up there on the screen from the verge.

656
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: So what has happened is that Go Daddy, the hosting website,

657
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: has actually cut off Texas's Right to Life's abortions whistleblowing website,

658
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 1: and it might be gone so go Daddy gave them

659
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: twenty four hours to find an alternative. Of course, Marshall,

660
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: this immediately calls to calls to mind things like being

661
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: you know, parlor being removed from the Amazon Web services.

662
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: I've spoken previously about how censorship is moving kind of

663
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: up the levels of technology, and so it used to

664
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: be that, you know, on the platform itself, we talk about, oh,

665
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: well we're going to ban this user that user individual

666
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: for right of action. Then it actually moved up a

667
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: level to the actual domain hosting. So now it's like, okay,

668
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: well we're not going to host your website at all.

669
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: We're not going to host you on our servers. And eventually,

670
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 1: you know, we're going to get to the full ISP

671
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: like Comcast should ban x website, you know, so and

672
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: so we haven't gotten there yet, Unfortunately, I think we

673
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: eventually will. This kind of has ignited a discussion, especially

674
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: amongst people on the right, about the ability for the

675
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: you know, corporation to cut off the hosting service and

676
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: all that. I think it's very tricky. I'm curious for

677
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: what you think because look, I mean, it's a fifty

678
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: to fifty issue or look, if you really want to

679
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 1: dig into the polling. It's more like a sixty forty issue.

680
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: But the gray area in between has, you know, kind

681
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 1: of people who are extreme in terms of no cases

682
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 1: and extreme in terms of all cases. That gray area

683
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 1: isn't necessarily being represented by Corporate America. At the same time,

684
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: it's not like corporate America's job necessarily to represent all

685
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: of the population. So what do you think about all this?

686
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: You know, kind of looking at this from a tech angle. Yeah,

687
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 1: so I'm going to request that everyone be hyper hyper

688
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: nuanced with the discussion we're about to have because it

689
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: shows how complicated this stuff is. So one I don't

690
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: quite think the word censorship perfectly applies to what's happening

691
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 1: with the web hosting service. I think the clearer frame

692
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 1: of for understanding is right to refuse service. I think

693
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: it's entirely reasonable for a private company to say I

694
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 1: don't want to host this website because once again, it's

695
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: a hosting service, and there are plenty of hosting services.

696
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: The claim is not that there's a monopoly on hosting services.

697
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: The only hosting company in the entire world is go Daddy,

698
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 1: and they've refused service as long as there are other

699
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: services they could provide it, because once again, like that

700
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 1: isn't the protected thing here. I'm largely fine. I'm quickly

701
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: fine with that. I think it goes in either direction.

702
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: And as we discussed with the context in other context,

703
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: I think there's easy way wordhere. I could see someone

704
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: on the right not on this abortion issue, but finding

705
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: their own specific version of that. I have no problem.

706
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: I do not think, for example, that a conservative hosting

707
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: site should have to support a pro abortion site. This

708
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: is that. I think that's entirely reasonable. Secondly, though, and

709
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: this is what I really like with you talking about

710
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: the ISPs, talking about actual Internet service providers. For example,

711
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: when you move into your partner or your house, oftentimes

712
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: you could only actually get Comcast get wired for Horizon.

713
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: So that is where this becomes deeply problematic. And I

714
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: would not support a world where an actual monopoly on

715
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 1: internet servia says no, we will just not host this content,

716
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: regardless of the actory who is web hosting it. There

717
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: has to be a delineation between a utility aka Internet

718
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: service provider and an individual website breaking points the realignment.

719
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: I don't feel like we're obligated to host anyone or

720
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: do anything the same thing applies to GoDaddy, the same

721
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: thing does not apply to an isp. But finally, and

722
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: this is the most difficult part here, the difficult part here,

723
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: and this is why this resonated with so many people,

724
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: is that this is going to change our politics. This

725
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: really will. This is actually an issue. As much as

726
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: we like to say, like pooh pooh the culture wars,

727
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: this actually means something. Regardless of how you feel about

728
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: the actual individual, Well, this actually means something. This is

729
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: a very serious shot against the bow and there are

730
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: going to be consequences of making a supported decision in

731
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: either direction if people aren't aware of that, and they

732
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: deeply do not understand the country we live in right now.

733
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: It's fascinating. So this column we're about to show you.

734
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: This ignited a lot of discussion on the right, and

735
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: I think that where he come down on it or not,

736
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: the analysis within it, I think is correct. And this

737
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: is going to actually create some real battle lines. So

738
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: let's put this up there on the screen. Matthew continette

739
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,280
Speaker 1: from the Washington Free Beacon. So he writes, did Texas

740
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: hand Biden a lifeline? So what he gets to in

741
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: there is the unpredictable politics of abortion in twenty twenty

742
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: two and twenty twenty four. Now what he points to

743
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: is Biden's approval rating is sinking. Independent voters are against him,

744
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: Republicans are gaining on Democrats in the generic ballot. Glenn

745
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: Youngkin is within striking distance in Virginia. By the way,

746
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: we are going to talk about that when Crystal comes back,

747
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: there's a dwindling chance that Gavin Newsom might be replaced

748
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: in the recall. Democrats are already worried about next year's election.

749
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: Then what happens is that the state of Texas has

750
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: now come in with this new abortion law. And what

751
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: Continetti points to within this is that the reignited of

752
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: actual row versus Wade politics, and what I mean by

753
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 1: that is a fundamental change to the system has the

754
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: capability to energize the Democratic base and change the conversation

755
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: away from areas the Republicans might be more comfortable. For example, Republicans,

756
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: like I said I'm predicted earlier in the show, I

757
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: think are poised for a huge gain in the midterm

758
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: elections because of COVID, where clearly there's a national dissatisfaction

759
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: with the way that the democratic and public health regime

760
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: is handling this pandemic and their inability to say this

761
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: is over same thing whenever it comes to the economy. Now,

762
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: in general, Republicans generally do better on the economy. As

763
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: we saw with Trump. It was the only area in

764
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 1: the entire twenty twenty election where he remained above fifty

765
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: one percent water and that was enough for people to

766
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: actually still come out and vote for him. So if

767
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: you keep it focused on those couple of things, plus

768
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: critical race theory, which is of course the greatest Republican

769
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 1: gift that you could have ever seen, you're going to

770
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: be in a great spot. As I said, you can

771
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: even be bigger than the Tea Party wave of twenty ten.

772
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: This could change things. And what Continetti points to is

773
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: the todd Aken moment right a back in what was

774
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: it to twenty twelve whenever he said I forget what

775
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: it even said something about legitimate rape anyway, cringe terrible

776
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: and actually is what made him lose that election. So

777
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: Continetti is saying, regardless of how you feel about this bill,

778
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: it's going to make it so that the politics of it,

779
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: every Republican in the country is going to have to

780
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: come down either for it or against it. Now, look,

781
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: let's be real, most Republicans, if you want to survive

782
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: a primary, you have to be for it. And he

783
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: points to the private action mechanism in particular as uniquely

784
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 1: tailored kind of for liberal narratives around how conservatives view

785
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: the abortion subject. Now, all that being said, the counter

786
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 1: to that, which is what I've also heard quite a bit,

787
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: is what the hell are you talking about? This is about,

788
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 1: you know, being pro life means you actually be pro life.

789
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: This law is actually preventing abortions, which means that it's righteous,

790
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: and that means that we all have to come down

791
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: on it regards wardless of the politics. But you know,

792
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: what we try to do here is look at this

793
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: dispassionately analytically, and I do actually think that the continety

794
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: has the potential to be right, as in, it has

795
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: the potential to set the stage for a major cultural confrontation, which,

796
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: in my opinion, based on the politics alone, again not

797
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 1: in terms of how you feel about the issue, could

798
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: actually negatively affect Republican chances in twenty twenty two. I

799
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: do also think given the large number of liberals that

800
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: have moved to the state of Texas, particularly Austin and more.

801
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: This will ignite and change the politics of that state

802
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: in the future. But that's another segment for another day. Well,

803
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: and look at the key thing here is that. Yeah,

804
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,919
Speaker 1: I know everyone likes to mock the term vote blue

805
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: no matter who. But if there ever was a case

806
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: to illustrate why that actually means something, it's this right here,

807
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: right now. Our politics since Roe v. Wade has been

808
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: defined by there being a really significant minority in this

809
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 1: country of conservative voters who are energized by the pro

810
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: life These are the people who were obviously always going

811
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: to vote for Donald Trump no matter what he did

812
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. If this continues to spread, and I

813
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: think this is going to continue to spread given the

814
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: makeup of the Supreme Court, we are going to see

815
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: the activation of a democratic voting base if it has

816
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: not cared about this issue. We were debating this with

817
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: a friend of ours a few weeks ago, and they said, well, look,

818
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: this isn't going to change politics because of the fact

819
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: that there weren't that many voters in twenty twenty who

820
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: were actually voting on abortion in the affirmly sense present

821
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: of the entire electorate. That three percent is going to

822
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: start expanding. Now that it has been activated, You're now

823
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: going to see I still think Texas is safer Republicans,

824
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: but you're now going to see liberals in Texas, not

825
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: even actually MutS, be frank about this for a second,

826
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: even moderates. I think the number one problem that you

827
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: have happened, given the echo chamber nature of our tribalist politics,

828
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: is that conservatives overestimate the percentage of the population that

829
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: is actually relatively okay with the Roe v. Wade status quo. Yes,

830
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,439
Speaker 1: that is the part that's going to be very difficult here. Yeah,

831
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: I think that the po and you know, like I

832
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: said last time, I'd rather gouge my eyes out than

833
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: talk about this. But this is the truth, which is

834
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 1: that it is incredibly politically salient. It absolutely could change

835
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: the game whenever it comes to the Republican map of

836
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. Now, how you feel about it or not.

837
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: I do think that there should be some honesty around

838
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: the politics, but I don't know. There's also a potential

839
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: that it doesn't change anything. I do, however, see the

840
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: go Daddy situation kind of the corporate you know, monop

841
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: the corporate pushing of this and in general always look

842
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: to what do the Democrats think that they can win on.

843
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: There's the reason that Biden and the White House have

844
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 1: been hammering this home every single time that they talk

845
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: about this. And look, the media obviously is all in

846
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: on their side as well. So as you saw with Afghanistan,

847
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 1: with Republicans that can go for you, it can also

848
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: go against you, and it usually does whenever it comes

849
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: to that issue. So anyway, I hope I did a

850
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: better job this time of explaining that topic. Let's get

851
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,479
Speaker 1: to the final one. This is fascinating and the data

852
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: here is really something, Marshal, I want you to explain,

853
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: both to me and to the audience. Let's put this

854
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: up there on the screen. This is a new Wall

855
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: Street Journal investigation quote. Men are abandoning higher education in

856
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: such numbers they now trail female college students by record levels.

857
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 1: So get this. In twenty twenty, the college gender gap

858
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: has surged. Fifty nine percent of college students are women,

859
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: forty point five percent of college students are men. And

860
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: if you look even further, Marshall, it is predominantly young

861
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 1: white men, regardless of class status, both poor and those

862
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: When you compare poor and working class white men to

863
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: those of young black, Latino and Asian men from the

864
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: same economic backgrounds. They are the ones who are kind

865
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: of leading the way in dropping out. So look, there's

866
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: always going to have been a little bit of an

867
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: imbalance within college, but sixty forty all within a year

868
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: and a dramatic increase in that, especially whenever it comes

869
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: to socioeconomic status, is absolutely crazy. It's going to change

870
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: higher education for a long time. So what's going on here, Well,

871
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: it's not just going to change higher education, is going

872
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: to change our country. Yeah, because the key fact in

873
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: this Wall Street General report it's probably paywall, but I

874
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: really recommend people try to find it as much as

875
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: they can because once again, this is actually, I don't

876
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 1: want to overstate this a game changer as we look

877
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: to how the next couple decades are going to play out.

878
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 1: Seventy there's been a there's been a huge actual decline

879
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: in the number of individuals enrolled in college over the

880
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: past decade, and seventy one percent of that decline is

881
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: driven by young men. Like that is that is? That

882
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,479
Speaker 1: is the key fact. So it's not just the fact

883
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: that there's this in balance, because like you said, there's

884
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: always since we've really been in this post sixties period

885
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 1: where women were increasingly educated. It's not highsation level forty

886
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 1: five though, it's really starting to shift in one direction.

887
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: So a couple really obvious things. It is incredibly clear

888
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 1: that the college status quo is not working for young men.

889
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: I don't quite understand the racial part of it, because

890
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: that's actually really fascinating, and that's something that's going to

891
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 1: take ten other conversations to unpack here. But the key

892
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: thing here is it's really not working. And what's so

893
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 1: frustrating to me. I know this is frustrating to you

894
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: as people who came up during the two thousands. We've

895
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: had this conversation about we need apprenticeships and we need

896
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: to do this, and we need to teach people, you

897
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 1: know with micro dirty jobs thing. We've had this discourse

898
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: for decades and it hasn't actually just almost the fact

899
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: that this hasn't actually changed. So this is the type

900
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: of article where it's not quite you and I are

901
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: going to come up with a perfect conclusion and solution,

902
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: but we actually need to have a leadership class in

903
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: this country who could say, hey, look, this actually isn't working.

904
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: This is a big issue because the final part here.

905
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: We talk about this on the realignment all the time,

906
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 1: but education rather than race is increasingly becoming the dividing

907
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: line along our poll number line. President Trump did much

908
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: better with working class blacks, Hispanics, Asians, et cetera, et cetera,

909
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: et cetera. So especially who are men and women. So

910
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 1: as we're seeing whether or not you and to college,

911
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: whether they went to grad school becoming more delineator of

912
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 1: whether or not you're gonna be a Democrat or a Republican,

913
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 1: you're going to see a further imbalance there. And that's

914
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: really that's gonna be huge. Yeah, he really don't want

915
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: this people. I really mean that, which is that when

916
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: you have this level of change and then you increasingly

917
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 1: split people not only just doing gender and race, but

918
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: then you split even more so along college lines, that

919
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: you are setting yourself up for a big problem whenever

920
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: it comes to your sheer ability to understand one another,

921
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: whether you attended for your college degree or not predicts

922
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 1: almost everything with great probability about how you feel about

923
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 1: black lives matter, how you feel about in wealth, inequality,

924
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: how do you feel about capitalism, how do you feel

925
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 1: about wages, how do you feel about America? Good or bad?

926
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,919
Speaker 1: Every single one of these things is what really comes

927
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: into play. Had our graphics guys, cut this graphic, go

928
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: ahead and take a look at this next one up

929
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 1: there on the screen, and you can see exactly what

930
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: we're talking about there in terms of the class status.

931
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: So there you see amongst people who are between forty

932
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars through forty five thousand dollars or less

933
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,359
Speaker 1: of income, you can see exactly the declining rates. I mean,

934
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: for those who are just listening, you are seeing a

935
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: drop from sixty to forty percent there in terms of

936
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: a number of people who are dropping out. But then

937
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: as you go kind of along the income spectrum for

938
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,720
Speaker 1: enrollment rates, yes, when you control for educate or for income,

939
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: it is still you see a decrease. You don't see

940
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 1: even close to the same level. Whenever it comes to

941
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: whenever it comes to men who are dropping out of college.

942
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: You know, the race one, I'll poke the bear here.

943
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: What they actually get to in this is what they

944
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: say is that for minority students, there has been an

945
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: increasing culture of talking about diversity, talking about a decline

946
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: in racism, or you know, an emphasis on you know,

947
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 1: inclusivity and all that. Well, there hasn't been the same

948
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: necessarily for white students. And I know, you know, I

949
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 1: know that it's a controversial statement to make, but I

950
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: personally would explain a little bit about why you might

951
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 1: see that. There's also just maybe a class angle here,

952
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 1: which is what you got to and we're pointing out

953
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: to me, is that within this there was a guy

954
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 1: who was just like, honestly, I just want to start working.

955
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: So if it makes sense, in particular, if your choice

956
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 1: is between not even necessarily a trade school, but like

957
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: a working job with not necessarily a good wage but

958
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: not a bad wage either, versus a community college online,

959
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm pretty sure I know what I would pick.

960
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: So when I look at it from that perspective and

961
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 1: you start to strip away the sociological elements of college

962
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: and you make it a pure cost benefit analysis, then

963
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: you start to see the interview a guy here is

964
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: making fifteen to fifteen an hour packing boxes an Amazon warehouse.

965
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,720
Speaker 1: Once again not a great wage, also not a terrible

966
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: wage if you're living in Perrysburg, Ohio. So when you

967
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 1: look at it from that perspective, you're like, Okay, I

968
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: totally understand how that might work. Yeah, I just woke

969
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: my last bit on here. This cover station is hobbled

970
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,320
Speaker 1: by the fact that there is a really long gap

971
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: between the way higher education looks and all these implications. Yeah. So,

972
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: for example, the Wallston Journal article points out, if you

973
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 1: go to college, you still make a million more dollars

974
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: over your lifetime than when you went before. So you

975
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: could look at that and say, hey, why would you

976
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 1: not go to college? Guys? It's basic math. Yeah, you

977
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 1: make fifteen fifty for the next two or three years,

978
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: but you should actually think about your overal lifetime. Here's

979
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 1: the problem. That's lifetime. That's actually looking at people in frankly,

980
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: even a different countrast in the seventies, the eighties and nineties,

981
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: the two thousands. You were looking at these young men

982
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: and they are not buying that argument to the same degree.

983
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: And this is all something that plays into the increasing

984
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: cost of higher education. Those immediate facts there number two.

985
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: We talked about this last week on the show. But

986
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: this is where the higher education thing becomes a major issue,

987
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 1: with it not really changing enough. During COVID, you see

988
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: a system that increasingly doesn't work for people but increases.

989
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: It seems unfair, and there's just a real inability to

990
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: have a serious operational conversation along how it looks like

991
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 1: to actually move forward instead of just having a very vapid,

992
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:13,280
Speaker 1: superficial conversation about needing alternatives. Yeah, that's actually a point

993
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: that I would drive home, which is that clearly something's

994
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 1: going on, it's wrong and we need to fix it.

995
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: And as you said, part of the problem is and naturally,

996
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: look I jump to this too. You're like, Okay, we

997
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,479
Speaker 1: need more like building trade school or it doesn't work.

998
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: This is actually the truth in terms of the funding

999
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the schools themselves funding and the

1000
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: emphesis on that it has not worked whatsoever, especially because

1001
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: largely it's still paired with the broken financial institutions, broken

1002
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,839
Speaker 1: financial system in terms of lending, lack of uptick, lack

1003
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: of promise. You know, the states are all over the

1004
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 1: place because again, education is local. It's very local in

1005
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: terms of what they fund, what they don't, what their

1006
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: tuition is, all sorts of these types of things. It

1007
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 1: all comes into play. I look at this though, and

1008
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: as you said, it's going to change the whole country,

1009
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 1: because if you need need a college degree in order

1010
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 1: to get a certain type of job. Then you're going

1011
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: to about to change the whole face of white, white

1012
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: collar work white collar workplace in terms of what are

1013
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: the types of people who are going to be working

1014
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,879
Speaker 1: in these institutions. Then you realize that those institutions run

1015
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 1: the whole country. So you're going to have a gender imbalance.

1016
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: You know, they're a class imbalance, even more so than

1017
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: we already have. Again, I'm beginning to see just the

1018
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 1: breakings of parts of natural coalitions that we already have

1019
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: in society. And the worst possible thing that we could

1020
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 1: have is you know, men versus women even more so,

1021
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 1: and include the class and the college element to that.

1022
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 1: Clearly need to figure something out in order to fix

1023
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: the system. Yeah, and look, the real last thing here

1024
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 1: is that and this is also fascinating too, and this

1025
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 1: shows white institutions don't really have the mental framework to

1026
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: actually handle this problem. If you actually look at college,

1027
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: though they put on the article, most actual administrators are

1028
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: still men. Right, So imagine for a second you are,

1029
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 1: and actually probably is some good faith college administrator watching

1030
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,320
Speaker 1: this episode. You say, Hey, you know what, let's actually

1031
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,720
Speaker 1: have a men's center. I went to University of Oregon.

1032
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 1: University of Oregan was actually scided there is actually a

1033
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: men's center. That conversation at an institutional level is going

1034
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 1: to be seemed kind of crazy because they're gonna say that.

1035
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 1: But wait, like, aren't most of the deans still men?

1036
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 1: That's a good point because this is the problem we're

1037
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: facing here. There is this legacy college system that, due

1038
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 1: to tenure and do the waves type of cool bureaucracy's

1039
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 1: work still looks like it did in the nineteen eighties.

1040
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: But we are still stuck in the here and the now,

1041
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 1: and it's really going to be this eighteen nineteen year

1042
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: olds in Ohio who are left behind by that one

1043
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 1: hundred percent. That's exactly right. Wow, you guys must really

1044
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: like listening to our voices. Well, I know this is

1045
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: annoying instead of making you listen to a Viagri commercial.

1046
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: When you're done, check out the other podcast I do

1047
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: with Marshall Kasloff called The Realignment. We talk a lot

1048
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 1: about the deeper issues that are changing realigning in American society.

1049
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 1: You always need more Crystal and Zag in your daily lives.

1050
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: Take care, guys. Okay to my monologue, most of you

1051
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: might have heard it at this point, but our friend

1052
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan contracted COVID last week. He posted an update

1053
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: on Instagram in which he described getting the virus and

1054
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 1: throwing a bunch of different therapeutics, including ivermectin at it,

1055
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: which made him feel better after just a few days.

1056
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: Now more recently he tested negative for COVID. He's feeling

1057
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,959
Speaker 1: great by all accounts, and look, we wish him the best,

1058
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 1: because that's what people should do when people fall ill.

1059
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 1: But that's not what our friends over in the mainstream

1060
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: media did. No, no, no, no. They took great relish

1061
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: in Joe Rogan's illness. The New York Times literally did

1062
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: a push notification to all of its subscribers so that

1063
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 1: they could relish the fact that someone who has expressed

1064
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:41,439
Speaker 1: views contrary to the mainstream would fall ill. But really,

1065
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,879
Speaker 1: what pissed people off about Joe was his use of therapeutics,

1066
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: and in particular ivermectin. Now, for our YouTube masters, let

1067
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 1: me say at the top, I am not recommending anybody

1068
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: do anything with respect to COVID except for getting vaccinated,

1069
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: something I have done myself, something Crystal has done, and

1070
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 1: which the science is incredibly robust as to its benefits,

1071
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,919
Speaker 1: but that does not mean I'm going to push false

1072
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: narratives or information that may undermine, in some people's views,

1073
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: the case for the vaccine. Unfortunately, that is what the

1074
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 1: mainstream media chose to do when it came to COVID

1075
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 1: and ivermectin. They welded both their hate for Rogan for

1076
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,280
Speaker 1: being more popular than them with a deep and undying

1077
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: hatred of anybody who advances the alternative view of COVID treatment.

1078
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: And the worst part is that in their pursuit of

1079
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: trying to undermine the case for ivermectin, they actually themselves

1080
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:38,800
Speaker 1: pervaded just as much misinformation as vaccine skeptics, and have

1081
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: probably hardened many anti vaxxers in their views by doing so.

1082
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: So let's review. It starts with Rolling Stone, not really

1083
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: a relevant name since they're literally fake story about a

1084
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: rape on campus, but enough cachet still to make people

1085
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 1: pay attention. They publish this story quote gunshot victims left

1086
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 1: weighting as horse de warmer overdoses. Overwhelmed Oklahoma hospital doctor says, Now,

1087
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: if you're unfamiliar, people have been using the term online

1088
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 1: horsety wormer to describe ivermectin, and while yes, that is

1089
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:14,320
Speaker 1: one use case, it can also be prescribed by a

1090
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 1: doctor for human consumption. That's a pretty serious claim that

1091
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone is making gunshot victims literally denied treatment and died.

1092
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 1: That's horrible. There's just one problem. The one person who

1093
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stone story quotes they don't even work at

1094
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 1: the hospital anymore. And the hospital says that the story

1095
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,399
Speaker 1: is complete bunk. But by that point it's too late.

1096
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: The story reached complete escape velocity. Rachel Maddow picked up

1097
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: that story and that went megaviral. Dozens of outlets started

1098
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 1: parroting the story, saying that the people were dying in

1099
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 1: the RS because of overdosing on ivermectin, and that the

1100
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone story itself called Joe Rogan a conspiracy theorist

1101
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 1: for pushing it. Yet, as time progressed, Rolling Stone was

1102
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 1: forced to release two different corrections to their original st

1103
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: story and effectively retract it. But that doesn't matter. By

1104
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: this point, the misinformation was spread and now it's over.

1105
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,720
Speaker 1: The entire episode is very revealing for a number of reasons.

1106
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 1: First and foremost was the view into which and how

1107
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: tech companies treat so called misinformation whenever it's on the

1108
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: side of pushing the vaccine. There is to date, now,

1109
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 1: five days later, no label by Twitter, YouTube videos and

1110
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,439
Speaker 1: cable news segments on MSNBC pushing this false story about

1111
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: ivermectin all remain completely uncorrected or standing on a variety

1112
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: of these platforms. What this really means is that the

1113
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 1: entire misinformation industrial complex or fact checkers, that tech people

1114
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: and more, it's completely bs. It's an enforcement regime on

1115
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: facts or misinformation that runs counter to the establishment narrative,

1116
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: while lies that push the establishment narrative themselves are now

1117
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 1: allowed to stay up, but are actually even proudly allowed

1118
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 1: to trend and set the narrative for days in terms

1119
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: of mainstream public opinion. And again, I say this all

1120
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 1: as someone who is passionately for the coronavirus vaccine. The

1121
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: most edifying messages I receive from all of you are

1122
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 1: those who say, you know, I was afraid, but I

1123
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 1: listened to you and Crystal, and I trust you guys,

1124
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: and I decided to get vaccinated after reviewing the information

1125
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: for myself. We have a test group of billions of people. Okay,

1126
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: the vaccine is safe. But also as someone who believes

1127
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 1: in the vaccine. It's on me to acknowledge the uncomfortable

1128
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: truths about it, like say, I don't know I still

1129
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 1: got COVID, not just that I got sick. But as

1130
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: I have said society wide, it decreases the chance of infection,

1131
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: which means it decreases the chance of spreading it to

1132
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: somebody who might have a much harder time with it.

1133
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: And of course it provides as near to certainty as

1134
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: medically possible you will not get hospitalized and die if

1135
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: you get coronavirus. I believe that by acknowledging those truths,

1136
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 1: by acknowledging those common counter arguments from the unvaccinated, that

1137
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 1: it gives me more credibility when I discuss it and

1138
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 1: what I believe. But instead, the establishment and the media

1139
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: in this case have decided to quash dissent, when in

1140
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 1: reality that is actually only going to make things way worse.

1141
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 1: Nothing about this story has anything to even do with ivermectin.

1142
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: If you're wondering, the evidence around it seems pretty mixed.

1143
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 1: Some countries have seen success, other large studies have seen

1144
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: mixed results. The facts themselves don't really matter though to

1145
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: these people. What they really want is to ridicule people

1146
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 1: people who are not vaccinated, and in their ridicule, they

1147
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:26,439
Speaker 1: really actually want ivermectin to be poisonous, and they want

1148
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: to see people suffer because it gives them great morally

1149
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: righteous glee to see people getting sick. And in that

1150
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: righteous glee, they abandon their journalistic standards and actually end

1151
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: up pushing completely and totally fake news. And in the

1152
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 1: obvious view, into that fake news, you see exactly how

1153
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 1: so many millions of people came to distrust the medical

1154
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: establishment and vaccines in the first place. It's a circle

1155
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: of hell, and most of it starts with hatred for

1156
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 1: other people instead of compassion. And I think, Marshall that

1157
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: the entire cycle around this whole Rolling Stone thing was

1158
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: really revealing on a number of reasons. More I promise,

1159
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: just wanted to make sure you knew about my podcast

1160
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: with Kyle Kolinski. It's called Crystal, Kyle and Friends, where

1161
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 1: we do long form interviews with people like Noam Chomsky,

1162
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 1: Cornell West, and Glenn Greenwald. You can listen on any

1163
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 1: podcast platform, or you can subscribe over on substack to

1164
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 1: get the video a day early. We're going to stop

1165
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: bugging you now enjoy Okay, Marshall, what are you taking

1166
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: a look at? Yeah, here's what I'm thinking about. It

1167
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: is obviously the almost twentieth anniversary of nine to eleven.

1168
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 1: And I know there's a lot of listeners here who

1169
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 1: actually weren't even alive during nine to eleven, or they

1170
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 1: were a little too young in terms of the nineteen nineties,

1171
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 1: actually remember this. But nine eleven really changed everything for

1172
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:42,439
Speaker 1: you and I And I'm one of the the last

1173
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 1: people who remember being able to actually go through security

1174
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: to greet your parents when they get off a plane.

1175
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 1: That is entirely different, but on a broader level, nine

1176
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 1: to eleven led to the war in Afghanistan, led to

1177
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: the war in Iraq. It led to the Arab Spring.

1178
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 1: We are coming from a period where our entire politics,

1179
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 1: almost every single decision we made from for example, Barack

1180
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: Obama batering Hillary Clinton in the primary. Yes, what was

1181
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: a huge argument that he made? He said, unlike Hillary,

1182
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: I opposed the war in Iraq. After the war in Afghanistan,

1183
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 1: why did we continue our presence in Afghanistan? Passed two

1184
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: thousand and eight on Too Frank Week last week, It's

1185
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 1: because President Obama said the war in Afghanistan, and actually,

1186
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: Frank I agree with this position, so I'm not trying

1187
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 1: to knock on this. But in two thousand and eight,

1188
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: that was the war that made sense. That was the

1189
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 1: good war. Iraq didn't make sense. The point here is

1190
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 1: that for you and I this has defined everything and

1191
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 1: what I want there to be more of a conversation

1192
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: around and there are a bunch of folks George Packer

1193
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 1: Ross dout that we've had them on the show, We've

1194
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: talked with them before her were trying to move this

1195
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:45,840
Speaker 1: conversation forward. But what got caught up in the partisan

1196
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 1: wrangling around nine, around nine to eleven, and around the

1197
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: Afghan withdrawal is what are the choices we're going to

1198
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 1: make moving forward? This period has actually closed the Vietnam

1199
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 1: War back in the seventies that was just as if

1200
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 1: not far more contentious than this was. But there was

1201
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: a period in nineteen seventy five after Saigon fell where

1202
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 1: a country had to move forward and make some big choices.

1203
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 1: So what are the choices we're actually having. I'm curious

1204
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 1: what you think we should be thinking about as we

1205
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 1: look to that point. It's interesting, you know, we have

1206
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 1: that New York Times sheet. Let's put that up there

1207
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: on the screen kind of encompasses all of this is

1208
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: nine to eleven a day or is it an era?

1209
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 1: And it's interesting, you know, when we discover and look

1210
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 1: at new narratives. I just watched or started this new

1211
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 1: movie on Netflix called Worth, which is about actually assigning

1212
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 1: economic value to the victims of nine to eleven, And

1213
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 1: it's like, there's all these little micro stories, but you

1214
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: blow it up. It changed everything. Why did it change

1215
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 1: my life? I was an Indian kid living in College Station, Texas. Well,

1216
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: let me tell you something. It changed the social environment

1217
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: in terms of the acceptance around, you know, al different

1218
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 1: religions and views. It changed the way that, you know, personally,

1219
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 1: I saw the orientation that a lot of people had

1220
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 1: towards foreigners and towards the idea of like a different

1221
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 1: type of the nine nineties America, which prevailed. Then we

1222
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 1: had the war in Iraq, which was crazy and just

1223
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 1: shredded social trust and made it so that including me

1224
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 1: as a teenager or not even a teenager at that point,

1225
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 1: just losing all faith in the government whatsoever, like zero.

1226
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 1: Back in two thousand and four, realizing that the WMDs

1227
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 1: were fake it was all a lie. I couldn't believe it.

1228
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it was like stunning to me. When you

1229
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: have that baked into you and you've seen America not

1230
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: just lose his credibility on the world stage, lose his

1231
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 1: credibility with its own people, and then lose its ability

1232
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 1: to project power globally. It's just sickening. Ad in the

1233
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 1: financial crisis, it changes everything, and so that lack of optimism.

1234
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 1: I really do feel as if we are back in

1235
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 1: some nineteen seventy seven type America. You know, there's a

1236
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: lot you know, the right obviously wants to make Joe

1237
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 1: Biden into Jimmy Carter. I don't think that's the correct

1238
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 1: analogy for a non number of reasons. But the age

1239
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 1: is actually quite similar. When you think about what was

1240
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:05,440
Speaker 1: the seventy the late seventies defined in lack of trust, Watergate,

1241
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 1: you know, the economy was all over for its crime

1242
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 1: is completely out of control. New York City is going broke.

1243
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: You have, you know, lack of dynamism in the American economy,

1244
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 1: a feeling of when you go to college, it's not

1245
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: going to work out for me. Now is that going

1246
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 1: to manifest itself in the Reagan years. Probably not. Things

1247
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: have changed a lot, but it's going to change the

1248
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 1: way that you or I. For example, I think you

1249
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 1: or I will always probably be ten times more skeptical

1250
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: of intervention than somebody who was born to yesterday, right

1251
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,919
Speaker 1: because they just don't remember I remember people coming home

1252
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 1: in caskets, one hundred people a month from Iraq getting

1253
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:44,440
Speaker 1: blown up in Baghdad, or you know, you watch I

1254
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 1: remember watching a guy blow himself up live on CNN

1255
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 1: during the Iis War. That's going to stick with me forever,

1256
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 1: or the Syrian Civil War or any of the other

1257
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 1: the fallout from all these things. It just changes your

1258
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:58,920
Speaker 1: whole orientation. So just like the fact that the people

1259
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: who live through the Great Depression, we're always kind of stingy,

1260
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 1: and they're always like saving stuff and putting it under

1261
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 1: the bed, or you know, distrustful of the financial system,

1262
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 1: very miserly, I think we're always going to have that,

1263
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 1: like with us the actual nine to eleven generation. And

1264
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,320
Speaker 1: it is fascinating because now we have fans, we have

1265
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 1: viewers who were they weren't even alive, and they're like,

1266
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 1: I don't understand why you feel so passionately about Afghanistan,

1267
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 1: like one way or the other, it's like baked in.

1268
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, but I remember going in, like I

1269
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 1: remember what it was like, and I remember the promises,

1270
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 1: and so you feel even more betrayed. I don't know.

1271
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 1: I think it is going to change everything. I do

1272
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:38,440
Speaker 1: think that it is a doldrum period of America, very

1273
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 1: reminiscent of the seventies, and some say in some ways

1274
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 1: worse in terms of polarization, probably not as bad economically,

1275
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 1: And I don't know where that leads. I honestly don't. Yeah,

1276
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 1: and look, the key thing here is two recommendations for folks.

1277
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 1: One you should watch. One you don't have to rehab

1278
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 1: should think about. So one Woodstock nineteen ninety nine. It's

1279
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:57,480
Speaker 1: on Hbohbo Max. It's a really great documentary. The Ringer

1280
01:05:57,520 --> 01:05:59,960
Speaker 1: did it. It's about the attempt to bring Woodstock back

1281
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:03,479
Speaker 1: thirty years after the original festival. And what it really

1282
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 1: captures is this pre nine to eleven eraror it's a

1283
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:12,000
Speaker 1: bunch of late nineties suburban college to high school students

1284
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 1: who just feel aimless, nothing matters. The second reference I'll

1285
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 1: make is the whole end of history idea. This is

1286
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: Francis Fukuyama. He's out at Stanford. This idea that after

1287
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union fell, after the Cold War ended, everything

1288
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: was just kind of settled. There's going to be wars,

1289
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 1: there's going to be comforted. But actually liberal democracy really works. Actually,

1290
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:31,800
Speaker 1: NATO's fine. Actually we're going to increasingly be peaceful. This

1291
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 1: and that I eleven blow all that up. And if

1292
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: you're really wanting to see an artifact at how different

1293
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: everything was. President George W. Bush when he was actually

1294
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 1: running for office, he said he was going to be

1295
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:47,480
Speaker 1: the president who wasn't intervention. He worked at Mogadisho in

1296
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 1: and Somalia, the Balkan Conflicence. He said, you know what

1297
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton was way too intervention is that I'm actually

1298
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 1: gonna be far more restraintst in my East of American power.

1299
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: Nine to eleven changed all that. I think this is

1300
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 1: something that people really don't understand. And I think my

1301
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 1: number one frustration with the rights take on the Afghan

1302
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 1: pull out, and you talked about this in your monologues,

1303
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 1: is that a lot of folks are saying, Wow, we've learned,

1304
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 1: nation building is over. We'll never do this again. This

1305
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: is globalism, This is just this, and that a lot

1306
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 1: of these same people they'd seen George W. Bush in

1307
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 1: two thousand, would have said, man, I want that guy

1308
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 1: to be our president. That is what happens when people

1309
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 1: do not look at the error we're living in and

1310
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 1: think really deeply. Because what I strongly suspect and why

1311
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 1: it's very important for us post nine eleven generations to

1312
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 1: think about this is what are we going to do

1313
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:35,479
Speaker 1: when there was another attack? Because once again we didn't

1314
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 1: just wake up, because once again we were just for America.

1315
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 1: Did not wake up in October two thousand and one

1316
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 1: and say, you know what, it's time for nation building.

1317
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 1: It never works that way. There are questions, and there

1318
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,920
Speaker 1: are events, there are strategic and tactical decisions, and I

1319
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: just think it's so important what all of us, as

1320
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 1: we move past this anniversary, that we actually think hard

1321
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 1: about the questions we're facing and don't just be purely reactive,

1322
01:07:57,480 --> 01:07:59,360
Speaker 1: because that is where I think the generation is part

1323
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: of us failed. That's how you sleepwalk. That's how you

1324
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 1: sleepwalk yourself into Afghanistan and into Iraq and you stay

1325
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 1: there and then ten years and then you build the assumptions.

1326
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 1: And that's why I was so concerned with the Afghan

1327
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 1: coverage I saw exactly baked in, especially with the ability

1328
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 1: for the right to just turn itself on a dime.

1329
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:17,120
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, these people, they're going to be

1330
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 1: Wardrome war chest beating. Let's go in and get him.

1331
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 1: We got to fight him over there, so we have

1332
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 1: to fight him over here. You see, the script is

1333
01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 1: laid for the exact same thing to happen all over again.

1334
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 1: It was terrifying. And actually we have a great guest

1335
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 1: standing by Ross doubt That, who's got a new piece

1336
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 1: on the American Empire itself. Let's get to it. Joining

1337
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:39,599
Speaker 1: us now. New York Times columnist Ross doubt That himself.

1338
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 1: He's the forthcoming author of a new book, The Deep Places,

1339
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:45,240
Speaker 1: which I had the privilege of being able to read

1340
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:47,599
Speaker 1: before a publication date in a couple of weeks. Highly

1341
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 1: recommend you guys go and pre order that. We'll have

1342
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:52,519
Speaker 1: a link down there in the description. Ross. It's great

1343
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:54,680
Speaker 1: to see you, Thanks for joining us, man, thanks for

1344
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 1: having me. It's great to be back. Absolutely so. Ross.

1345
01:08:57,479 --> 01:08:59,719
Speaker 1: We have you on today to talk about your latest

1346
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:04,400
Speaker 1: piece on the American Empire Afghanistan. What's being revealed really

1347
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 1: by where we are today. Let's put his tear sheet

1348
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 1: up there on the screen, another one that we'll have

1349
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,360
Speaker 1: there in the description. Ross tell us the argument that

1350
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 1: you're trying to make here in the piece and really

1351
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 1: what you discovered from the whole Afghanistan situation. Well, so

1352
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of like, you know, end of

1353
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 1: empire vibes. I think is one way to put it

1354
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 1: around our retreat from Afghanistan. And I started the column

1355
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 1: by talking about this video that circulated that where a

1356
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 1: reporter was following a bunch of Taliban fighters into an

1357
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 1: abandoned hangar that was filled with sort of you know,

1358
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 1: decommissioned US helicopters. And what was amazing about the video

1359
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 1: was the Taliban fighters, I assume we're wearing stolen US

1360
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 1: military gear, So if you've just been watching the video

1361
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 1: with the SoundOff, you would have thought they were a

1362
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:59,720
Speaker 1: team of US soldiers coming in. And somebody on Twitter said, well,

1363
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 1: this is like you know, the Visigoths and vandals, you know,

1364
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:06,720
Speaker 1: putting on legionary armor and or you know, or adopting

1365
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 1: Roman last names even as they even as they sort

1366
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:12,679
Speaker 1: of you know, take over and take down the Roman Empire.

1367
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 1: So that's the vibe, and then the question is how

1368
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 1: true is the vibe? And the argument I make in

1369
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 1: the piece is that, you know, there's sort of three

1370
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:25,160
Speaker 1: zones of American empire, if you will. There's the sort

1371
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:28,839
Speaker 1: of continental empire that you know, the one that includes

1372
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:33,120
Speaker 1: Alaska and Hawaii and the forty eight States. And then

1373
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: there's sort of the post World War II empire, which

1374
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 1: is basically the military umbrella that we put over Western

1375
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 1: Europe in parts of East Asia. And then there's the

1376
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 1: sort of world empire, the one where whenever we get

1377
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 1: really hubristic, whether in Vietnam or than in Iraq and Afghanistan,

1378
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 1: we try to basically sort of americanized by force of arms.

1379
01:10:56,280 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 1: And that's what's failed here, right, It's that kind of

1380
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 1: you know, we're going to not just be you know,

1381
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 1: a commercial empire where everyone watches Disney movies around the world.

1382
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 1: We're actually going to use, you know, use American military

1383
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:14,080
Speaker 1: might to sort of make the least American parts of

1384
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:18,720
Speaker 1: the world more like America. That's what's failed. That's not

1385
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,160
Speaker 1: the same thing as the fall of the Roman Empire.

1386
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:24,719
Speaker 1: It's more like you know, the Roman the Roman legions

1387
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:28,439
Speaker 1: losing battles in the German forests or the Parthian deserts.

1388
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:31,680
Speaker 1: So the question is what, then, what are the consequences

1389
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 1: for losing on those frontiers for you know, the inner

1390
01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 1: the inner parts of the American imperium. Yeah, and before

1391
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 1: I follow up, I just want to highlight how important

1392
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:45,760
Speaker 1: you delineating the three rings are, because there are some

1393
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 1: folks who've over exaggerated the implications of pulling out from Afghanistan,

1394
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 1: which was again, you could leave Afghanistan, you can pull

1395
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:56,719
Speaker 1: back in Yemen, you could question the presences of Somalia,

1396
01:11:57,040 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 1: but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Germany,

1397
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:03,200
Speaker 1: South Korea, Japan, and I think it would be an

1398
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:06,639
Speaker 1: overexaggeration to make a broader claim about what that means

1399
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 1: for this. But here's a question for you. Sago and

1400
01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 1: I just did a segment on nine to eleven and

1401
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 1: how we thought about it on the twentieth anniversary. At

1402
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 1: a generational level, we were in fourth grade, around as

1403
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 1: young as you could be and still tangibly understand to

1404
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:23,519
Speaker 1: a certain degree what went on. You were in college

1405
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:25,760
Speaker 1: at the time, I believe, But also if you're looking

1406
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:28,559
Speaker 1: at the conservative movement, that was a period where Max

1407
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 1: boot was triumphantly writing about how America is an empire,

1408
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:34,640
Speaker 1: Howard Zimba's right, and actually we're going to own that.

1409
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:37,840
Speaker 1: So can you just talk about how seeing the right

1410
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:40,760
Speaker 1: and just even the center, who we evolve around this

1411
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:44,160
Speaker 1: discourse around America's third rung. How has that really felt

1412
01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:49,599
Speaker 1: over the past twenty years. I mean, it's been an

1413
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 1: incredibly depressing and dispiriting experience. I think it's the best

1414
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:57,479
Speaker 1: way to put it. You know, I was a senior

1415
01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:00,759
Speaker 1: in college. I was a young conservat I I edited

1416
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 1: for my Sins, the conservative newspaper at Harvard, so you know,

1417
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:09,120
Speaker 1: I was there for the year after nine to eleven.

1418
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 1: And I think if you went back and dug up

1419
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:13,760
Speaker 1: the college newspaper things that I wrote, they would have

1420
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:18,799
Speaker 1: all been totally do we say Max Booty in booshin?

1421
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the right word is, but you

1422
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 1: know I was. I was all in, and so was

1423
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 1: everybody I knew on the right, except for you know,

1424
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 1: a few devotees of Pat Buchanan and one friend who

1425
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:36,320
Speaker 1: is sort of a hyper realist who ended up working

1426
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 1: at the State Department and and would sit around in

1427
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 1: DC and tell us all why we were wrong and

1428
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: the Iraq invasion was going to be a disaster. And

1429
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:50,280
Speaker 1: happily he you know, he actually is famous Elbridge Colby,

1430
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:52,800
Speaker 1: and he has a new book out about the threat

1431
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:54,960
Speaker 1: of China, so he may be in charge of Republican

1432
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:58,320
Speaker 1: foreign policy at some point. And he was. He was right,

1433
01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:01,600
Speaker 1: but everybody else was wrong. Everyone I considered sort of

1434
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 1: the sensible center ended up being wrong, and in a

1435
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:10,320
Speaker 1: way that just I think has had a sort of toxic,

1436
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:16,600
Speaker 1: toxically cascading effect on American institutions, the Republican Party, the

1437
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:21,439
Speaker 1: relationship between American elites, center left and center right, and

1438
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 1: the country as a whole, you know, the America. In

1439
01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 1: the end, the sort of paleo conservative and far left

1440
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 1: critiques of America after nine to eleven were not one

1441
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 1: hundred percent vindicated, but got a lot of things right.

1442
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:41,120
Speaker 1: We didn't know what we were doing. We imagined ourselves

1443
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 1: to be in this heroic crusade, and mostly it turned

1444
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:48,600
Speaker 1: to ashes. You know, it's fascinating Ross. You nailed a

1445
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 1: dynamic which I found so frustrating. In the wake of

1446
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:55,600
Speaker 1: all the Afghan media coverage. You wrote, quote, you have

1447
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:58,760
Speaker 1: a GOP youh postured as cold eyed realists under Trump

1448
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:03,599
Speaker 1: suddenly turning back into eager crusaders excited to own Biden

1449
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:07,000
Speaker 1: Democrats and relive the brief post nine to eleven period

1450
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:10,919
Speaker 1: where the media treated their party with deference rather than contempt.

1451
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:13,959
Speaker 1: Why do you think that dynamic is so bo familiar

1452
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:18,720
Speaker 1: intoxicating two people in the American political right? And then

1453
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:22,560
Speaker 1: what are the lessons that you learned having participated and

1454
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 1: seen it for yourself as to where that can lead

1455
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:27,960
Speaker 1: you in the long run. I mean, I think that

1456
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 1: you know, when people talk about sort of the biases

1457
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 1: and assumptions of the media, the two places where the media,

1458
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 1: elite media, let's say, like the institution I work for,

1459
01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:44,920
Speaker 1: I guess tends to be or has in the past,

1460
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:49,080
Speaker 1: tended to be most sympathetic to conservative ideas are hawkish

1461
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:53,240
Speaker 1: foreign policy and deficit reduction. So the post nine to

1462
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:56,960
Speaker 1: eleven moment was this moment when again not everyone, but

1463
01:15:57,160 --> 01:16:02,240
Speaker 1: almost everyone became a hawk and a lot of you know,

1464
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 1: a lot of conservative ideas about the world. World is

1465
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 1: a dangerous place that we're not just you know, marching

1466
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:12,720
Speaker 1: into a glorious a glorious you know, marching across the

1467
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 1: bridge to the twenty first century or you know whatever.

1468
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:17,599
Speaker 1: The Clinton rhetoric was a lot of those ideas seem

1469
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 1: to be vindicated by the terror attacks, and some of

1470
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:22,320
Speaker 1: those ideas were vindicated, like I think there is a

1471
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 1: sort of there's a version of conservatism that was vindicated

1472
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 1: by terror attacks. It just wasn't the version that ended

1473
01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:34,040
Speaker 1: up making policy. But all of that meant that there

1474
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:36,760
Speaker 1: was this window after nine to eleven when you know,

1475
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:43,080
Speaker 1: the media treated Republican politicians with deference, and it took

1476
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:46,960
Speaker 1: a certain slice of conservative and right wing ideas, the

1477
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:50,640
Speaker 1: slice associated with foreign policy much more seriously than you

1478
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 1: can imagine much of the media taking conservative ideas at

1479
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 1: any time since. And you know, again I was young then,

1480
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:01,240
Speaker 1: and you know, you did feel for a couple of

1481
01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 1: years like America was not just a country, but like

1482
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 1: the intellectual classes were moving to the right, which again

1483
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:13,760
Speaker 1: is you know, not something that's happened since. And that

1484
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:18,759
Speaker 1: had Yeah, that was not intoxicating, maybe, but very nice

1485
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 1: if you were a conservative, and if you were a

1486
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:24,559
Speaker 1: Republican politician and you did. You got a mini dose

1487
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 1: of what that looked like with the Biden withdrawal from Afghanistan,

1488
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 1: which was mismanaged, was handled badly, did deserve criticism, But

1489
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:35,760
Speaker 1: out of that criticism you had this brief return of

1490
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:42,720
Speaker 1: a sort of, you know, centrist and Republican hawkish sort

1491
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:47,840
Speaker 1: of overlap that I think Republican politicians like and understandably

1492
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 1: it's nice to have the media on your side. Something

1493
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:54,439
Speaker 1: I'm really curious about Ross, because I really like how

1494
01:17:54,479 --> 01:18:00,639
Speaker 1: you set up that the far left Howard Zinnian Gnome

1495
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 1: Chomsky style and pale econ more realist right tend to

1496
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 1: actually be really correct with their cautions about the actions

1497
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:14,560
Speaker 1: we engaged in after nine to eleven. But what my

1498
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:19,719
Speaker 1: concern is is I entirely disagree with the more forward

1499
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:23,320
Speaker 1: facing visions of these two ideologies actually advanced. So I

1500
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:26,559
Speaker 1: think their critiques are very helpful, but I actually don't

1501
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:31,479
Speaker 1: think that paleoconism was a particularly helpful what should the

1502
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:36,000
Speaker 1: world look like ideology. It's not electorally popular, and I

1503
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:38,639
Speaker 1: actually don't think it's a good policy prescription. And then too,

1504
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 1: I also think that the more left leaning foreign policy

1505
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 1: vision isn't also a useful one to actually understand the

1506
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 1: choices that we have going forward. So how do we

1507
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:50,639
Speaker 1: if we're thinking of these ideologies as having useful critiques.

1508
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:54,680
Speaker 1: How do we prevent ourselves from over correcting? Because if

1509
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:57,800
Speaker 1: we're going to look at this post nineteen sixties, institutions

1510
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 1: don't work. Vibe here, we love vibes. This discussion. We

1511
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 1: could basically agree that the unifying theme is we lean

1512
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:08,479
Speaker 1: too much into things. We're too much LBJ. Kennedy, New Frontier.

1513
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:10,360
Speaker 1: We could go to the Moon, we could remake Vietnam,

1514
01:19:10,439 --> 01:19:13,800
Speaker 1: we could do the Great Society. If that goes too far,

1515
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:16,479
Speaker 1: then the globalization frame goes too far. How do we

1516
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:19,880
Speaker 1: not just swing too much? Again? How should we think

1517
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 1: about this? Yeah, I mean I think that there are

1518
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:28,040
Speaker 1: there's sort of a divide within I would sort of

1519
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:31,599
Speaker 1: say people younger than me, especially who think about these

1520
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:35,880
Speaker 1: issues in foreign policy, where for all that there's still

1521
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:40,519
Speaker 1: this kind of you know, hawkish media tendency that can

1522
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:44,439
Speaker 1: resurface generationally. People who live through the nine to eleven

1523
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 1: era think we screwed up really really badly. That's I

1524
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:54,040
Speaker 1: would say, that's a very strong under forty consensus. And

1525
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 1: then you have the division where the question is just

1526
01:19:57,640 --> 01:20:02,680
Speaker 1: that mean, you know, on the right, a kind you know,

1527
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:06,839
Speaker 1: a kind of paleo conservative sort of come home America

1528
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:11,439
Speaker 1: conservatism and on the left something something similar or does

1529
01:20:11,479 --> 01:20:14,840
Speaker 1: it mean a kind of pivot to realism of some

1530
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:21,599
Speaker 1: sort and a focus on essentially great power competition and China, Right,

1531
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:24,200
Speaker 1: And I think that's sort of the likely division in

1532
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:29,519
Speaker 1: terms of what what Afghanistan means. But I think you

1533
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:33,600
Speaker 1: also have you know, America also, I think that the

1534
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 1: danger in what you see in Afghanistan is also just

1535
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:43,519
Speaker 1: an indicator of American incapacity, Like we we failed here,

1536
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:47,760
Speaker 1: not just because we made a mistake trying to nation

1537
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:51,040
Speaker 1: build or you know, not just because Afghanistan is the

1538
01:20:51,080 --> 01:20:54,280
Speaker 1: graveyard of empires, but because it really is true that

1539
01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:59,600
Speaker 1: American institutions don't seem to work very well. And to

1540
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:02,320
Speaker 1: the extent that that has been sort of more fully

1541
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:06,519
Speaker 1: exposed by the withdrawal, you would expect sort of rival

1542
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 1: powers Russia and China above all, to sort of draw

1543
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:14,640
Speaker 1: some conclusions from this and look for further ways to

1544
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:18,080
Speaker 1: sort of test our capacities. And that is the place

1545
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:21,880
Speaker 1: where I think, you know, the Hawks, the Hawks talk

1546
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:24,519
Speaker 1: way too much about credibility, right, the idea like you

1547
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:26,760
Speaker 1: have to stay in Afghanistan for fifty years to prove

1548
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 1: your credibility. Well, no, that's not necessarily a good idea,

1549
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:34,479
Speaker 1: but there is a germ of truth to that that,

1550
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:38,400
Speaker 1: like the act of withdrawing from Afghanistan in what it

1551
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:42,559
Speaker 1: exposes about American weakness, does expose us to further risks

1552
01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:47,280
Speaker 1: in more important theaters, and that does have to inform

1553
01:21:47,360 --> 01:21:49,760
Speaker 1: American policy making. I mean, I think that this is

1554
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:52,800
Speaker 1: what the Biden White House wants to do. They want to,

1555
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 1: you know, sort of do more in East Asia to

1556
01:21:56,600 --> 01:22:00,599
Speaker 1: contain China, and getting out of Afghanistan they think helps

1557
01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:03,719
Speaker 1: them do that. And in terms of like personnel and money,

1558
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:07,560
Speaker 1: it does. But there are costs to you know, in

1559
01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 1: a sense, letting the world see our nakedness, which is

1560
01:22:10,280 --> 01:22:13,400
Speaker 1: sort of what's happened in the last month. Finally, ross

1561
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:16,960
Speaker 1: your book, The Deep Places. It is a journey of

1562
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:20,160
Speaker 1: a memoir of illness and discovery. Why did you decide

1563
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:21,439
Speaker 1: to write the book? Just get people a bit of

1564
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:24,559
Speaker 1: a preview. Sure, so this is not about the decline

1565
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:28,400
Speaker 1: of the American Empire. It's about my experience with chronic

1566
01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:32,519
Speaker 1: illness and lyme disease over the last going on six years.

1567
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:36,439
Speaker 1: But it's so it's a personal account. It's a memoir

1568
01:22:36,479 --> 01:22:39,560
Speaker 1: as the subtitle suggests, but it's also a book I

1569
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:42,559
Speaker 1: think that's very relevant for the age of COVID because

1570
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:46,280
Speaker 1: it's about sort of the limits of scientific and medical knowledge,

1571
01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:50,000
Speaker 1: the failures of medical establishments, and kind of to my

1572
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:53,400
Speaker 1: own great surprise and unhappy shock, what it means to

1573
01:22:53,479 --> 01:22:55,960
Speaker 1: get sick and realize all the ways that you can

1574
01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:59,760
Speaker 1: be sort of on your own. So I think, you know,

1575
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:02,960
Speaker 1: to book for people interested in the specific subject, but

1576
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:07,000
Speaker 1: also interested in the larger issues that the pandemic has

1577
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:10,280
Speaker 1: definitely opened up. Well, I'm glad that we could have

1578
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:13,040
Speaker 1: you on. Like I said, I highly recommend it. We'll

1579
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:15,519
Speaker 1: have pre order links down there. Ross really appreciate it.

1580
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today. Absolutely, it's

1581
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:20,320
Speaker 1: always a pleasure, guys, Thanks for having me, Thanks for coming,

1582
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:23,600
Speaker 1: Thanks everybody for watching. We really appreciate it. If you

1583
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 1: can support a stay, we would, you know, it just

1584
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:28,320
Speaker 1: means absolutely. The world link is down there in the description.

1585
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:30,400
Speaker 1: It's so awesome to be able to do this with

1586
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:32,720
Speaker 1: you guys all the time. Marshall tell everybody where they

1587
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 1: can find you and me normally regularly the realignment, etc. Yeah,

1588
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:40,120
Speaker 1: once again, everyone, huge, huge, huge, thank you. I had

1589
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:42,360
Speaker 1: a blast doing this. I was nervous coming in, but

1590
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:45,519
Speaker 1: it's really fun and really realizing there's a real community

1591
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:48,200
Speaker 1: around this show is actually a game changer. I hope

1592
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:49,720
Speaker 1: those of you who asked me to look at the

1593
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 1: camera more were rewarded with the rest of my mug.

1594
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:55,240
Speaker 1: It's fun looking at soccer, but there's also an audience

1595
01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:57,519
Speaker 1: out there too. But no, most importantly, you can check

1596
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:00,400
Speaker 1: out the Realignment podcast. We're on YouTube. We said we

1597
01:24:00,479 --> 01:24:03,040
Speaker 1: are so close to crossing fifty k, and we had

1598
01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:05,719
Speaker 1: an amazing episode that's coming out today. It's with Ben Mesrick.

1599
01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:08,320
Speaker 1: He is the author who wrote The Accidental Billionaires, which

1600
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:11,360
Speaker 1: inspired The Social Network, one of our favorite movies of

1601
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:15,599
Speaker 1: the twenty tens. It's all about GameStop, it's all about Reddit,

1602
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:19,120
Speaker 1: social networks, finance, Wall Street, why Occupy Wall Street failed.

1603
01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 1: That's on our YouTube channel now. It's also available where

1604
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:23,560
Speaker 1: we listen to your podcasts, and we'll be posting a

1605
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 1: clip on Wednesday as well too, where you can come

1606
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:30,000
Speaker 1: and see me every other week there too. Wait, everybody,

1607
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:32,240
Speaker 1: go subscribe. We really appreciate it. Marshall. Thank you for

1608
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:35,040
Speaker 1: sitting in week. Crystal's going to be back on Thursday

1609
01:24:35,080 --> 01:24:52,200
Speaker 1: and we will see you all then. Thanks for listening

1610
01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:54,120
Speaker 1: to the show, guys, we really appreciate it. To help

1611
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:56,200
Speaker 1: other people find the show, go ahead and leave us

1612
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:59,200
Speaker 1: a five star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you

1613
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:02,519
Speaker 1: get your podcast. Really helps other people find the show.

1614
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:06,360
Speaker 1: As always special thank you to Supercast for powering our

1615
01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:08,800
Speaker 1: premium membership. If you want to find out more, go

1616
01:25:08,960 --> 01:25:10,720
Speaker 1: to Crystalansager dot com