WEBVTT - Savor Classics: Hail Seitan

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to Saber Prediction of Ihart are you.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm any Rea and I'm Lorn.

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<v Speaker 2>Vocal Bomb, and today we have a classic for you

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<v Speaker 2>about Satan.

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<v Speaker 3>Many puns. Oh, yes, fondly recall.

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<v Speaker 1>Was there any particular reason this classic was on your mind, Lauren?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I was going through our backlog and we

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<v Speaker 2>just recorded a whole episode about barbecue, like Memphis style barbecue,

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<v Speaker 2>and I felt like I needed to apologize in a

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<v Speaker 2>small way to all of our vegetarian listeners.

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<v Speaker 1>That's yeah, and you can get barbecued Satan. Oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>usually the one that I see, but you can yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>get it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode of Rich only came out in November of

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<v Speaker 2>twenty eighteen, and we don't really have any updates for you.

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<v Speaker 2>I usually just do a quick scour of the internet

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<v Speaker 2>to see if anything is super new. Nothing is super

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<v Speaker 2>new with Sitan. I did read a lot of articles

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<v Speaker 2>about whether jackfruit or Sitan is better for a barbecue,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was personal. Everyone kind of had their own response,

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<v Speaker 2>So here we are.

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<v Speaker 3>It was deeply personal.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, as we talked about in that Memphis Style barbecue episode,

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<v Speaker 1>people have very strong opinions. They do very personal opinions.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh about those kinds of things always, always, and we

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<v Speaker 1>would love to hear those opinions from you listeners.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, about vegetarian proteins the same way

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<v Speaker 2>as anything else. But yeah, I suppose, without further ado,

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<v Speaker 2>we should let former Annie and Lauren take it away.

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<v Speaker 3>Hello, and welcome to Savor.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Annie Rises and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about satan.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, satan, not satan, not satan. No, different thing, very different.

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<v Speaker 2>Probably not vegetarian that second one.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think so, but you never know, you never know.

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<v Speaker 1>No, we're talking about satan, which is flavored wheat gluten,

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes called a gluten, wheat gluten, wheat protein, or wheat meat.

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<v Speaker 1>It's in your tofriky slices, yes, yes, but.

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<v Speaker 3>Really though, what is it? Okay?

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<v Speaker 2>Satan is a protein product created using wheat gluten. Gluten

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<v Speaker 2>is the primary protein in wheat. It's a stretchy and

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<v Speaker 2>sort of linky, and the texture of satan is well,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a lot like meat, maybe more so than other

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<v Speaker 2>meat alternatives. It has a sort of fibrous chew that

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<v Speaker 2>reminds me a lot of chicken or at least like

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<v Speaker 2>a chicken nugget actual chicken. And you make satan by

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<v Speaker 2>first coaxing the gluten out of wheat flour and then

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<v Speaker 2>by encouraging that gluten to lock up just right to

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<v Speaker 2>give you that nice, chewy texture. To get the gluten out,

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<v Speaker 2>you make a sort of dough of flour and water

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<v Speaker 2>and then soak and knead it with a more water,

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<v Speaker 2>like a lot more water. Gluten is not water soluble,

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<v Speaker 2>so it will stay put in your sort of dough,

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<v Speaker 2>but the starches that make up the rest of wheat

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<v Speaker 2>flour are totally water soluble, so they will eventually wash out.

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<v Speaker 2>You're then left with gluten, and okay. Gluten is made

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<v Speaker 2>up of two types of protein molecules, glutenins and gleiodins,

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<v Speaker 2>plus a smattering of a few other compounds like cysteine,

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<v Speaker 2>which is an amino acid, and all right under normal circumstances.

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<v Speaker 2>Gluten is a sort of gel like suspension of this

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<v Speaker 2>stuff and maybe some molecules of water. But when you

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<v Speaker 2>mess with it, both physically mixing or kneading the gluten

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<v Speaker 2>and also chemically changing its pH by adding stuff like

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<v Speaker 2>vinegar or baking soda, those cysteines will make the gluten

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<v Speaker 2>in molecules link up. The gleiodins are smaller and will

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<v Speaker 2>get trapped in these like cross linked matrices of gluten

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<v Speaker 2>molecules like a Okay, imagine, imagine you have a few

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<v Speaker 2>strands of giant Christmas lights.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh I do like.

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<v Speaker 2>Like like the bulbs are like the size of like

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<v Speaker 2>normal lamp bulbs. Okay, And these strands are just super

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<v Speaker 2>tangled up.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh no, as they do.

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<v Speaker 2>And for some reason you and all your wisdom decided

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<v Speaker 2>to store a bunch of bitty little like pinky sized

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<v Speaker 2>globe ornaments in the same box as these strands of

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<v Speaker 2>Christmas lights. And so when you take this mass of

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<v Speaker 2>tangled lights out of the box, all of these little

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<v Speaker 2>ornaments come with it, trapped in the little like pockets

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<v Speaker 2>made up by the chords.

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<v Speaker 3>Did my mom put you up to this?

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<v Speaker 1>It's a lot of work taking down the decorations at

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<v Speaker 1>the end of the year, Mom, No.

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<v Speaker 2>No, shame, no shame. Okay, okay, does this imagine that

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<v Speaker 2>you can eat it?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh? Does that make it better? Then I don't have

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<v Speaker 3>to untangle them? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, yeah, Well that's satan cool.

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<v Speaker 3>Guilt free. You can also make it at home.

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<v Speaker 2>It is notoriously difficult to get the texture right, but yes,

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<v Speaker 2>you can totally work your own gluten out of flour

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<v Speaker 2>or buy wheat gluten often called vital wheat gluten in

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<v Speaker 2>stores and use it to make your own satan. You

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<v Speaker 2>can also use vital weet gluten to up your homemade

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<v Speaker 2>bread game.

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<v Speaker 1>Ooh, I'm always looking to up my homemade bread game.

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<v Speaker 1>If we're talking about flavor, I actually don't have too

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<v Speaker 1>much experience with satan. Satan yes, the form of horror movies,

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<v Speaker 1>but satan, no, not really. I do remember it having

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<v Speaker 1>a hearty, meaty exture and that it absorbed flavor really well.

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<v Speaker 1>It can mimic some of the flavors and properties of

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<v Speaker 1>meat so well that it makes some vegetarians or vegans

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<v Speaker 1>suspicious that there might actually be meat in whatever vegetarian

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<v Speaker 1>vegan dish they've ordered that has satan in it. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>By itself, wheat gluten is pretty bland, but satan is

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<v Speaker 2>usually made with flavor additives to make it taste meaty.

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<v Speaker 2>Common recipes recommend savory things like nutritional yeast tomorrow and

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<v Speaker 2>worster share sauce.

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<v Speaker 1>And we're talking about nutrition Satan has a good amount

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<v Speaker 1>of protein. One ounce comes in around twenty one grams

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<v Speaker 1>of protein. It's low fat, low carb, but obviously not

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<v Speaker 1>gluten free if celiacs or gluten intolerance is something that

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<v Speaker 1>you deal with.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and this package of really high protein with really

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<v Speaker 2>low fat and low carb is something that some people

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<v Speaker 2>find very desirable.

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<v Speaker 3>And numbers wise.

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<v Speaker 1>In twenty twelve, some research put the meat alternatives industry

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<v Speaker 1>in the US, of which Satan is a part of,

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<v Speaker 1>at five hundred and thirty three million dollars.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's making some money. Yeah, it's making some money.

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<v Speaker 1>And if we look back at the history, it features

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<v Speaker 1>a cameo from someone I was not expecting that we

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<v Speaker 1>haven't talked about in a while on this show. But

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<v Speaker 1>you're gonna have to wait to find out who it

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<v Speaker 1>is until after this quick break forward from our sponsor.

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<v Speaker 3>And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>For centuries Chinese and Japanese vegetarian Buddhist monks have eaten satan.

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<v Speaker 2>Or not exactly Satan, but who romanized either Hu or Fu.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, who is not exactly what we think of

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<v Speaker 2>when we think of satan today, but is also a

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<v Speaker 2>product made from wheat gluten that has been processed to

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<v Speaker 2>form chewy proteiny products. It's usually a little less fibrous

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<v Speaker 2>than satan, more like the texture of seafood than chicken,

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<v Speaker 2>or sort of spongier, like a sort of springy cake.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there isn't too much when it comes to history

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<v Speaker 1>recorded history when it comes to satan. But I do

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<v Speaker 1>know that some people like ignore this whole thing and

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<v Speaker 1>say that this isn't satan when they're talking about.

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<v Speaker 3>The history of satan. Yeah, depends, you know, mysteries of history. Yeah, sure, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>It's been a Southeast Asian diet staple since sixth century CE.

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<v Speaker 1>In Japan, for instance, where for centuries up until the

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<v Speaker 1>nineteenth century, eating four legged animals was forbidden.

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<v Speaker 2>This resulted from the arrival of Buddhism circa sixth century CE,

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<v Speaker 2>compounding existing Shinto beliefs against killing or eating animals.

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<v Speaker 1>Because of that, Japan and also India, which had a

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<v Speaker 1>similar story, the idea of mak meat wasn't really a

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<v Speaker 1>thing for a good while because there wasn't really a

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<v Speaker 1>reference point.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there were pockets of cultures that ate meat anyway

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<v Speaker 2>in Japan, but it was not widespread like new emperors

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<v Speaker 2>had a long standing tradition of as soon as they

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<v Speaker 2>rose to power, re upping that edict against eating mammals.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, the same wasn't true in China, not.

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<v Speaker 2>For the common person at any rate. Buddhist monks on

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<v Speaker 2>the mainland and in Korea wouldn't eat animals either.

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<v Speaker 1>Poet Yuwan May included a recipe for a satan textured

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<v Speaker 1>to be similar to goose in the book Recipes from

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<v Speaker 1>the Sway Garden. Journey to the West, a book out

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<v Speaker 1>of the Ming dynasty, comes with several wheat gluten mentions.

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<v Speaker 1>One involves a demon trying to trick a monk into

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<v Speaker 1>eating human flesh and brains that resembled wheat gluten.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, tricky demon.

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<v Speaker 3>No, that sounds like it could be a future fantasy food.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, Journey to the West is full of It's the

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<v Speaker 2>legend that we got so many other stories out of,

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<v Speaker 2>like a dragon ball z and Sayuki and all of

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<v Speaker 2>these weird problems.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah, I revisit that for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah oo, or you know, whatever recursor to satan you

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<v Speaker 2>want to talk about did feature pretty widely in Chinese art.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a poem from the eleventh century CE book dream

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<v Speaker 2>Pool essays that said steel is to iron as gluten

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<v Speaker 2>is to flower. It is only after thoroughly washing the

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<v Speaker 2>dough that gluten is revealed.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to go think about that for a minute,

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<v Speaker 1>but I suppose we should continue.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>In eighteen ninety five, Vegetarian Restaurant Number one opened in

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<v Speaker 1>New York thanks to the New York City Vegetarian Society.

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<v Speaker 2>Vegetarian Restaurant Number one. I love how on the nose that.

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<v Speaker 1>Is, we have a restaurant similar to that in Atlanta.

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<v Speaker 1>It was similarly named, but the opening night menu included

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<v Speaker 1>fruit and graham bread. Yes, that gram, but that's not

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<v Speaker 1>the kmemeo what I'm talking about. Although related, George Osawa

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<v Speaker 1>came up with the term satan in nineteen sixty one.

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<v Speaker 1>He was also the founder of the macrobiotic diet, and indeed,

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<v Speaker 1>satan wasn't that common in cookbooks until the nineteen seventies.

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<v Speaker 1>That word anyway, And like I said earlier, all that

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<v Speaker 1>early history we've been talking about. Some folks dispute it,

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<v Speaker 1>saying that satan got its start with the macrobiotic diet

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<v Speaker 1>in the nineteen sixties.

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<v Speaker 2>I think satan is based very heavily on who like

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<v Speaker 2>to the point where you can really call it, I

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<v Speaker 2>mean that you can count.

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<v Speaker 3>The history of Yeah, it was sort of like a progression. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, it's just just an offshoot.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I agree.

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<v Speaker 1>When Mormon settlers were making their way to Utah in

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<v Speaker 1>the nineteenth century, they needed an inexpensive protein source and

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<v Speaker 1>satan was their answer.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh and also, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know who was a huge part of this movement, One

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<v Speaker 1>John Harvey Kellogg. Kellogg That Kellogg as part of his

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<v Speaker 1>whole health sanitarium thing that we've talked about in a

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<v Speaker 1>few episodes, he was looking for a successful meat alternative

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<v Speaker 1>the vegetarians in his flock. He and his brother Will Keith,

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<v Speaker 1>through some weird circumstance, came upon the conclusion that dry

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<v Speaker 1>wheat flaked super well, and you add milk boila toasted

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<v Speaker 1>wheat flakes. Now, Kellogg and his brother Will Keith had

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<v Speaker 1>a huge blowout when it came to the profitability of

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<v Speaker 1>the cereal, eventually leading to Will spinning out the Kellogg

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<v Speaker 1>we all know that company and John Harvey Kellogg starting

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<v Speaker 1>the Battle Creek Food Company. This company's product line was

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<v Speaker 1>primarily mock meats. The most popular of witch was known

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<v Speaker 1>as protos. It was a combination of soy peanuts and

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<v Speaker 1>wheat gluten, sort of the.

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<v Speaker 3>First commercial approximation of satan.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, some Seventh day aventist fans of Kellogg got the

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<v Speaker 1>idea for mock meats more closely resembling hot dogs and

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<v Speaker 1>hamburgers and adding more seasoning for flavor, including one doctor

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<v Speaker 1>George Harding, a relative of worn Gee Harding. Yeah, we're

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<v Speaker 1>getting all guy. It's a surprising peace in this episode.

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<v Speaker 1>From this came the Worthington Foods Company and their two

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<v Speaker 1>canned imitation meat products in nineteen forty nine. If you're wondering,

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<v Speaker 1>because we were meatless wieners still available these days, be

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<v Speaker 1>looking for a throwback and soyloin steaks. Oh that legitimately

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<v Speaker 1>made me laugh.

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<v Speaker 3>That was good. It's a good pun.

0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.400
<v Speaker 2>And we talked about these meatless wieners in our hot

0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Dogs episode. These were maybe the first veggie dogs on

0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:27.440
<v Speaker 2>the market.

0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:32.000
<v Speaker 1>Eventually, Worthington's got bought out by Miles Laboratories, and from

0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.320
<v Speaker 1>this came a brand you've probably heard of, morning Star Farms.

0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:37.680
<v Speaker 3>Yep, that one.

0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.640
<v Speaker 1>They were the first that were really able to commercialize

0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:42.760
<v Speaker 1>the mock meats market in the US.

0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.319
<v Speaker 3>Like the Chick with a K Patty that.

0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.600
<v Speaker 1>Was them, morning Star went through several companies before once

0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:54.280
<v Speaker 1>again falling under Kellogg's ownership. Satan's success largely depended on

0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:59.000
<v Speaker 1>the public at large accepting vegetarianism, which for a while

0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.800
<v Speaker 1>was a tough sell in the United States, especially for

0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.520
<v Speaker 1>Middle America. In the nineteen twenties, one of America's first

0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:09.520
<v Speaker 1>chain restaurants, it was called Child's, attempted to transition to

0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.000
<v Speaker 1>a full vegetarian menu at an affordable price at the

0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:18.240
<v Speaker 1>behest of owner and vegetarian William Childs. Folks didn't go

0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.440
<v Speaker 1>for it, though, Sales plummeted and Childs was removed from

0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:25.240
<v Speaker 1>his leadership position. Even progressive New York City was iffy

0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:30.440
<v Speaker 1>on the idea of vegetarianism during World War II, entered

0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Cranks in nineteen sixty one in all vegetarian restaurant that

0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.320
<v Speaker 1>went on to attract famous fans like Linda McCartney and

0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Princess Diana.

0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:43.960
<v Speaker 2>And I wanted to put in here at the end

0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:48.400
<v Speaker 2>that these days, Satan is pretty widely available in supermarkets.

0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:52.400
<v Speaker 2>But if you're looking to expand from Satan into who territory.

0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.400
<v Speaker 2>The fresh stuff that's mixed with glutenous rice in Japanese

0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.480
<v Speaker 2>called namafu is hard to find in the West, but

0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.000
<v Speaker 2>you can probably find a cooked and dried who called

0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.800
<v Speaker 2>u yaki who or yaqui boo in whatever Asian import

0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:07.040
<v Speaker 2>market is in your area.

0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:09.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't have to keep an eye out for that.

0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.200
<v Speaker 1>This episode has inspired me to try try some more.

0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:14.880
<v Speaker 1>Say ton, Yeah, me too.

0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm sort of I'm craving it right now. I've definitely

0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:21.560
<v Speaker 2>had like clear broth Japanese soup that has these little

0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.000
<v Speaker 2>it almost looks like a like a little spongy cracker

0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:27.440
<v Speaker 2>And that's definitely this this like YUCKI who like dried

0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.560
<v Speaker 2>mm and yeah, and I'm just like, oh, it's nice.

0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:32.640
<v Speaker 2>It soaks up, it soaks up the broth. Yeah, it's

0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:34.400
<v Speaker 2>a nice little texture difference in the soup.

0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Oh man, I got a craving. I've said it

0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:41.480
<v Speaker 1>before and I'll say it again. The Tempe episode to

0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.280
<v Speaker 1>date is the one that has changed my diet the

0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:45.760
<v Speaker 1>most because I eat Tempe all the time.

0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.160
<v Speaker 3>Now really I love it. Oh wow, that's so cool.

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:48.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:50.080
<v Speaker 2>Oh, now I want to know I want to like

0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:52.640
<v Speaker 2>pick your brain for recipes and stuff. How do you

0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:53.280
<v Speaker 2>like cooking it?

0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.120
<v Speaker 1>I like a good simple stir fry with soy sauce

0:15:58.120 --> 0:15:59.400
<v Speaker 1>and a little sesame oil.

0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:01.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, says Meia oil makes all the difference.

0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:04.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but now I'm hoping maybe I'll have a similar

0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:12.520
<v Speaker 1>revelation about Satan. And that brings us to the end

0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.040
<v Speaker 1>of this classic episode. We hope that you enjoyed listening

0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.800
<v Speaker 1>to it, whether it was your first time or who

0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:21.200
<v Speaker 1>knows how many times, as much as we enjoyed bringing

0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:25.360
<v Speaker 1>it back. Would definitely love to hear from you listeners

0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:31.120
<v Speaker 1>any Satan recipes or favorite uses very much.

0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:36.080
<v Speaker 2>Oh oh always, yes, please, and you can get in

0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:36.640
<v Speaker 2>touch with us.

0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.359
<v Speaker 1>You can you can email us at hello at sabrepod

0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:40.920
<v Speaker 1>dot com.

0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.280
<v Speaker 2>We are also on social media. You can find us

0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.280
<v Speaker 2>on Blue Sky and Instagram at saber pod and we

0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.359
<v Speaker 2>do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.

0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:51.640
<v Speaker 2>For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit

0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.680
<v Speaker 2>the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.520
<v Speaker 2>your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers

0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.160
<v Speaker 2>Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for list

0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.040
<v Speaker 2>and we hope that lots more good things are coming

0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:03.200
<v Speaker 2>your way.