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Speaker 1: On this episode of news World, Dylan Movany, a transgender influencer,

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Speaker 1: partnered with bud Light in a sponsored Instagram video on

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Speaker 1: April first, twenty twenty three. The video promoted a fifteen

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars giveaway during March Madness. The partnership sparked a

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Speaker 1: huge backlash and a boycott of bud Light. Just days later,

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Speaker 1: singer Kid Rock used several cases of bud Light for

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Speaker 1: target practice, opening fire in them with a gun in

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Speaker 1: response to the news that anheuser Busch made a transgender

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Speaker 1: woman a bud Light spokesperson. The fallout was a drop

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Speaker 1: in bud Light sales and a shakeup of the US

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Speaker 1: based marketing team and other executives. I'm really pleased to

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Speaker 1: welcome my guest. Anson frieris former president of Anheuser Busch

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Speaker 1: Sales and Distribution. His new book is Last Call for

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Speaker 1: bud Light, The Fall and Future of America's Favorite Beer,

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Speaker 1: and I have to say it is a great answering.

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Speaker 1: Welcome and thank you for joining me on nuts World.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thanks for having me. Really excited to be here.

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Speaker 1: You've mentioned that your earliest memory of Anheuser Busch was

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Speaker 1: watching their Super Bowl commercial in nineteen eighty nine when

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Speaker 1: you were five years old. What made that moment so

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Speaker 1: impactful for you and was there something about the brand

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Speaker 1: or the commercial that left a lasting impression on you

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Speaker 1: at such a young age.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there were two things that left the

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Speaker 2: lasting impression.

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Speaker 3: First off, from Cincinnati, Ohio, So I'm a Cincinnati Bengals fan,

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Speaker 3: and that was the year you had the Cincinnati Bengals

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Speaker 3: Boomer Sison playing Joe Montana in the Super Bowl. So

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Speaker 3: my parents had a big party that year. And then

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Speaker 3: the other thing that made it more memorable is that

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Speaker 3: was the first year that you had the Bud Bowl.

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Speaker 3: And if you remember this is when you had Budweiser

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Speaker 3: versus bud Light.

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Speaker 2: They had cans of beer. They were competing against each other.

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Speaker 4: Football fans get ready for the Battle of the Century.

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Speaker 2: It's unbeaten Budwiser.

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Speaker 4: It takes on need defeated bud Light in b versus

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Speaker 4: bud Light in bud Bull One budd Bull Woe.

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Speaker 2: This time it's for reu.

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Speaker 3: It was the first time ever that actually a company

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Speaker 3: had run a Super Bowl ad specifically about the Super Bowl,

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Speaker 3: just for the Super Bowl as well, and it was

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Speaker 3: a big deal where consumers they could predict the score

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Speaker 3: of the bud Bowl and they could win free beer

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Speaker 3: in money afterwards. So it was a huge success for

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Speaker 3: the company and really is what ignited bud Light sales

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Speaker 3: become the largest beer brand in the country was that

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Speaker 3: commercial campaign.

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Speaker 1: It was amazing how bud Light really became an extraordinarily

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Speaker 1: successful brand.

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Speaker 2: Amazing successful brand if you think about it.

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Speaker 3: Almost the height of beer and beer marketing was the

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Speaker 3: decade that followed.

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Speaker 2: It was the nineties. It was the early two thousands.

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Speaker 3: You probably remember there was the Budweiser Frogs commercial.

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Speaker 2: Bood Wines, Why why, why there was a bud Light

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Speaker 2: real manut of genius commercials.

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Speaker 4: Real men of genius, real man of genius. Today we

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Speaker 4: salute you, mister footlong hot dog inventor.

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Speaker 2: Mister foodlong hotdog.

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Speaker 4: Invent When conventional wisdom said no one could make a

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Speaker 4: hot dog longer than six inches, you dared to dream,

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Speaker 4: to dream. You knew the limitations of a regular size

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Speaker 4: hot dog bun, and you ignored them. Happen you made

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Speaker 4: a ten inch wiener and people cheer, but you weren't satisfied.

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Speaker 4: You said, wait, I think I can still give you.

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Speaker 2: Two more inches go.

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Speaker 4: So this Bud's for you, mister hot dog hero, because

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Speaker 4: you gave every single one of us our fondest wish

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Speaker 4: a bigger wiener.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: There was the was up guys from Budweiser, and that

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Speaker 2: was really the pinnacle.

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Speaker 1: Yo, the pick of the phone. Hello.

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Speaker 2: Was that.

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Speaker 3: Beer sales peaked in the US and the early two thousands,

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Speaker 3: I think partly because of the genius of some of

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Speaker 3: these marketing campaigns that just made kind of beer part

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Speaker 3: of American life. It was part of sports, that was

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Speaker 3: part of music.

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Speaker 1: So after your five year old experience, as you were

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Speaker 1: growing up, what did Buzzweiser represent to you?

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: To me, it was always like Budweiser was America in

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Speaker 3: a bottle. I mean, it was Clydesdale's, it was sports,

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Speaker 3: it was backyard barbecues. It brought people together, and that

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Speaker 3: beer was always something that was never really partisan. People

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Speaker 3: were Democrats, Republicans, you know, black, white, I mean, everybody's

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Speaker 3: drinking beer. It was usually people were having a good

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Speaker 3: time and people were having fun.

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Speaker 2: So that's kind of what the brand represented.

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Speaker 1: Now as I understand it, you were collecting as a kid.

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Speaker 1: Now before you can even drink. You're collecting memorability like

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Speaker 1: Neon signs, steins, vintage cans. I mean, I had this

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Speaker 1: image of your bedroom as sort of a shrine Dan

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Speaker 1: Heiser Bush.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of what it was. I mean, God, bless

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Speaker 2: my mom.

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Speaker 3: I think she thought that was better than me drinking

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Speaker 3: the product when I was at that age. So she said, okay,

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Speaker 3: i'll have you had the Neon signs and the blow ups.

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Speaker 2: And the kind of pintackers on the wall. My child

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Speaker 2: did better. I mean it really looked like a sports bar.

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Speaker 2: I thought that was fun. That was cool.

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Speaker 3: They did great marketing, and I think at the lunch table,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, in junior high in high school, if

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Speaker 3: you knew the latest bud light catchphrases of you know

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Speaker 3: what's up? Or romanto genius, I don't know, batching some

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Speaker 3: social currency.

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Speaker 2: So I thought it was kind of cool.

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Speaker 1: See I had this image of you sort of walking

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Speaker 1: an Heiser Bush fan. How did your friends react to that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: There was this big study that was done, and I

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Speaker 3: remember it. I showed that I graduated from high school

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Speaker 3: in two thousand and two, and enough apparently that was

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Speaker 3: the year that underage drinking peaked in the United States,

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Speaker 3: And I don't know that I had to do with

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Speaker 3: the success of the marketing of the brand that wasn't

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Speaker 3: really who they were supposed to target in the nineties

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Speaker 3: and early two thousands. But I just think that at

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Speaker 3: that time Beer was cool, Budweiser was cool, bud Light

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Speaker 3: was cool. They kept winning all these Super Bowl ad

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Speaker 3: Meter Awards, super Bowls coming up this week, and the

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Speaker 3: biggest honor of a marketer or a brander is this

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Speaker 3: USA today where they take the pulse to the entire

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Speaker 3: country and entire country ranks, what are their favorite Super Bowls?

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Speaker 3: I mean, Annhezard, Bush, Bud and bud Light were winning

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Speaker 3: them almost every single year at this time, so they

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Speaker 3: just really understood sort of the customer, the culture where

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Speaker 3: the country was. And I think I was probably just

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Speaker 3: similar to a lot of guys growing up that I

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Speaker 3: don't know, when you got to a certain age, you thought, hey,

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Speaker 3: I'll be able to drink some Buds and bud Lights

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Speaker 3: and hang out with my buddies and have some fun

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Speaker 3: and good times.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know that was what the culture I

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Speaker 2: grew up in.

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Speaker 1: I have to ask, do you still have your Budweiser

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Speaker 1: frog fingerings.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I got him somewhere down my parents' basement. I

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Speaker 3: think my mom saved all this memorability and all the

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Speaker 3: stuff that I had for my childhood bedroom. So it's

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Speaker 3: all down in the basement somewhere. I'm still trying to

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Speaker 3: convince my wife to let me figure out a room

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Speaker 3: in my house to put all that stuff up, but

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Speaker 3: I haven't convinced it yet.

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Speaker 1: You could someday open up a bud Light museum.

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Speaker 3: I probably could at some point. Yeah, with all the

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Speaker 3: stuff that I have. That's the dream. At some point,

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Speaker 3: if the book does well enough, maybe we'll do that.

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Speaker 1: As a kid, you really were fascinated with bud Light,

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Speaker 1: and then you make the transition and you actually go

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Speaker 1: to work for them, And what was that transition like?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was interesting.

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Speaker 3: Even though I grew up liking bud Light, liking the company,

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Speaker 3: liking the commercials, I never thought I would end up

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Speaker 3: working there. After undergrad I went and I worked at

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Speaker 3: a private equity firm out of Boston, and I went

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Speaker 3: back to business school and I was in business school

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Speaker 3: working at a hedge fund in New York City when

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Speaker 3: I ran into some folks at Anhuser Busch in BEV

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Speaker 3: and they had moved their global headquarters to New York

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Speaker 3: really after buying Anheuser Busch in the US, and it

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Speaker 3: was a couple of folks from three G Capital. They

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Speaker 3: were really the owners of the Annehuser Busch in Bev

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Speaker 3: now in New York. And after running into them at

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Speaker 3: a bar in New York, they convinced me to come

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Speaker 3: work for what they said was kind of the world's

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Speaker 3: largest private equity firm that happened to sell beer. And

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Speaker 3: so given my kind of background in finance, but given

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Speaker 3: my sort of enjoyment of the products.

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Speaker 2: I thought it could be kind of a pdentially match

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Speaker 2: made in heaven.

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Speaker 3: They told me that this company was a meritocracy, that

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Speaker 3: you could grow quickly in the organization, that the company

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Speaker 3: had future plans to grow. They were going to go

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Speaker 3: buy brands group of Medelo in Mexico and sab Miller,

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Speaker 3: who knows, maybe by other big companies Pepsi down the line.

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Speaker 2: So that was exciting, and.

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Speaker 3: So they convinced me to join them, and the year

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Speaker 3: twenty eleven is when I joined the company. Actually originally

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Speaker 3: joined them in Belgium in a finance job, and then

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Speaker 3: moved to Saint Louis and New York and Denver and Atlanta,

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Speaker 3: So moved a bunch of times over my eleven year

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Speaker 3: career with them.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand and eight, Anheuser Busch, which had been

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Speaker 1: a classic American company and I'd spent time over the

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Speaker 1: years with Algie Bush, it was acquired in a hostel

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Speaker 1: takeover by InBev, which was a smaller but very aggressive

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Speaker 1: Belgian based company. Can you sort of walk us through

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Speaker 1: that kind of experiencement, What was it like seeing your

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Speaker 1: company go through such a dramatic transition.

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Speaker 2: I joined just a couple of years afterwards.

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Speaker 3: So a lot of the people that were around from

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Speaker 3: call at the Augie Bush and the Bush family days

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Speaker 3: and who had really built Anheuser Bush into what had

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Speaker 3: become had become the largest kind of beer company.

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Speaker 2: In the world, behind the success of Bud and Bud Light.

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Speaker 3: And they did it by great marketing, branding that was

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Speaker 3: their specialty. But then a company called InBev, which was

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Speaker 3: Belgian based, kind of run by a group of Belgian

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Speaker 3: and then Brazilian families. They had a different philosophy than

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Speaker 3: Annezer Bush did, and their philosophy was really they were

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Speaker 3: more cost cutting. They employed a philosophy called zero based budgeting,

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Speaker 3: which was kind of the antithesis of what Anne Haser

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Speaker 3: Busch was and how annezer Busch built the business off

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Speaker 3: great branding. InBev, they would come in to cut the

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Speaker 3: cost and candidly in the early in mid two thousands,

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Speaker 3: there were a lot of cost to cut at Annheser Busch.

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Speaker 3: I think the company owned eight helicopters at the time.

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Speaker 3: They owned I don't know, a fleet of jets, They

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Speaker 3: owned SeaWorld, they Busch gardens, there were a lot of

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Speaker 3: just kind of non core beer assets they'd picked up

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Speaker 3: over time. So unfortunately the company got a little bit

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Speaker 3: bloated and they became susceptible to a take over as

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Speaker 3: the Bush family did not have a lot of stock and.

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Speaker 2: The stock price hadn't moved in the number of years.

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Speaker 3: So they were taken over by a competitor InBev in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and eight and two thousand and nine.

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Speaker 1: How did that change the company's culture?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it changed the company's culture dramatically.

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Speaker 3: I think that the InBev organization when they came in,

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Speaker 3: of course immediately did away with sort of the private jets,

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Speaker 3: did away with the helicopters, did away with thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: expense theres and there was a lot of excess that

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Speaker 3: went away. So some that was good because if you're

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Speaker 3: a business and you just get bloated and you are

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Speaker 3: wasting money and you're not necessarily investing in the right.

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Speaker 2: Way, some of that's positive. I would say.

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Speaker 3: The negative things that changed about the organization was really

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Speaker 3: sort of the hiring I think specifically Americans and Americans

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Speaker 3: that were really from the geographical center of the country

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Speaker 3: that really understood their customer.

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Speaker 2: That was one of the biggest shifts.

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Speaker 3: That happened InBev brought in a lot of their marketers

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Speaker 3: that were from Belgium, or that were from China, or

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Speaker 3: that were from sort of overseas that didn't really understand

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Speaker 3: the US customer. And they also didn't invest as much

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Speaker 3: into marketing and building brands as Anheuser Bush did.

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Speaker 2: They thought that these kind of.

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Speaker 3: Brands could just last forever and that people would continue

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Speaker 3: to buy them.

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Speaker 2: But as we know, you have to continue to invest.

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Speaker 3: Into brands, you have to continue of the pulse the country,

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Speaker 3: and I think that was probably the biggest disconnect is

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Speaker 3: it went from a marketing organization to a financial organization,

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Speaker 3: and that can only produce value for so long.

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Speaker 1: Historically, weren't brands like this that were national brands. Weren't

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Speaker 1: they basically represented locally by locally owned companies that were

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Speaker 1: doing the marketing and had the network of personal relationships.

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Speaker 1: And if I remember correctly, Sidney McCain's father was a

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Speaker 1: big Budweiser distributor in Arizona. Did NBAV change that kind

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Speaker 1: of locally controlled distribution system or did they just use

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Speaker 1: it as it existed.

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Speaker 3: They used it as it existed where they legally had to.

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Speaker 3: But in terms of how the alcohol system works, it's

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Speaker 3: actually pretty interesting. Nose a three tier system where legally

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Speaker 3: you have manufacturers of alcohol like Anhezard Bush, they have

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Speaker 3: to sell to independent third party wholesalers that are family

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Speaker 3: owned in every county across the US, and then those

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Speaker 3: wholesalers have to sell to independent bars and restaurants and

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Speaker 3: liquor stores and others. And unfortunate, when NBEV came in,

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Speaker 3: they kind of turned this system upside down. Historically, the

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Speaker 3: old Anheuser Busch and the Bush family had worked with

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Speaker 3: these wholesalers, these distributors, they were great partners, equal partners.

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Speaker 3: But then when NBEV came in, they tried to start

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Speaker 3: buying up all of these family owned businesses across the US,

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Speaker 3: and they thought that there was a problem with these

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Speaker 3: independent family owned businesses. They weren't running their business as well,

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Speaker 3: they didn't understand how to market. And I think that

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Speaker 3: was a completely misnomer. And has a Bush tried to

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Speaker 3: more steer from the center. I mean they almost had,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, it was almost like a Communist party

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Speaker 3: way of controlling the system, where they tried to steer

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Speaker 3: from what they called steer from the center, dictate all

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Speaker 3: marketing from one location, as opposed to letting their independent

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Speaker 3: wholesales across the country to be able to market to

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Speaker 3: what people wanted to see in Phoenix versus New York

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Speaker 3: versus Boston. So you mentioned, I mean great wholesaler family,

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Speaker 3: the McCain family, They owned the wholesale ship in Arizona.

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Speaker 3: Annie McCain, I mean, great person, a great historic partner.

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Speaker 3: But then when you have this other organization trying to

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Speaker 3: come in buy your business or tell you what to do, there's.

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Speaker 2: Obviously a reaction to that.

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Speaker 3: It was a tough relationship early on between InBev and

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Speaker 3: their local wholesalers.

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Speaker 1: Now, you also mentioned that the decay of bud light

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Speaker 1: really occurred over about a fifteen year period with lots

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Speaker 1: of relatively small decisions. Would they accumulate? What did you

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Speaker 1: mean by that?

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Speaker 2: The one thing we just spoke about, I mean, fraying

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Speaker 2: those distributor relationships was a big part of this. Where

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Speaker 2: historically there was trust between Annehser Bush and their wholesalers.

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Speaker 2: They worked together, it was a great symbiotic relationship, but

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Speaker 2: they started fraying that partnership.

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Speaker 3: Another thing that really made the distributors lose trust and

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Speaker 3: anne Haser Busch was Anne Haserbush moved the sales and

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Speaker 3: marketing headquarters of the company, which had always been based

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Speaker 3: in Saint Louis, Missouri, I mean kind of the geographical

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Speaker 3: center of the country, very close to Peoria, Illinois. There's

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Speaker 3: a great saying in marketing that if it plays in Peoria,

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Speaker 3: it generally plays across the country. So in Saint Louis

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Speaker 3: there was just a way to within a fifty mile

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Speaker 3: radius of Saint Louis, you have urban areas, you have

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Speaker 3: rural areas, you have suburbs, you have farms. It was

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Speaker 3: a great way to kind of understand your brands and

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Speaker 3: who buys them. It's a very high share market as well.

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Speaker 3: But in the twenty fifteen twenty sixteen time period, the

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Speaker 3: company they moved they're marketing headquarters from Saint Louis to

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Speaker 3: New York City. When they did that, they hire different

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Speaker 3: agencies that were more in New York. They hired different

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Speaker 3: people that had only lived in New York City their

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Speaker 3: entire lives, and those people they're seeing. Even how you

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Speaker 3: sell beer in New York City, it's very different than

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Speaker 3: you do in the rest of the country. In New

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Speaker 3: York City, you don't have any walmarts, you don't have

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Speaker 3: really any big kind of convenience store chains. You don't

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Speaker 3: have any chili's or bars and restaurants chains like that.

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Speaker 3: It's just very different. And then so a lot of

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Speaker 3: these changes really added up. Where you had frame relationships

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Speaker 3: with wholesalers, you change the geographic place where your sales

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Speaker 3: and marketing team was, you're hiring different individuals, and then

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Speaker 3: you've sort of adopted different philosophies as well. One really

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Speaker 3: around these policies of ESG and Dei, which the company

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Speaker 3: had really never subscribed to historically, but because they were

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Speaker 3: owned by Europeans, and this is more of a European

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Speaker 3: philosophy of how businesses should act, there were a lot

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Speaker 3: of kind of small changes that added up and ended

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Speaker 3: up culminating in this partnership at Dilan Molvania.

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Speaker 1: If I remember correctly, many of the great national beer

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Speaker 1: brands came out of the Midwest.

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Speaker 3: You're right thinking about Miller was out of Milwaukee. Perhaps

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Speaker 3: is out of Milwaukee.

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Speaker 1: I guess you could argue Youngling in Pennsylvania, but it's

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Speaker 1: in western Pennsylvania. It's not in Philadelphia. But there was

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Speaker 1: a sense that, of course beer had been to a

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Speaker 1: great degree a German product, then the Germans had migrated

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Speaker 1: into that whole region. But I can tell you being

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Speaker 1: married to somebody from Wisconsin, there is a Midwestern style

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Speaker 1: and rhythm that has no relation to New York City.

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Speaker 2: You're exactly right.

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Speaker 3: This is a different way of life, there's different philosophies,

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Speaker 3: and I don't know, I think beer more plays towards

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Speaker 3: that laid back sitting around in a call to sack.

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Speaker 3: You know, you know your lawn and you want to

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Speaker 3: have a beer afterwards. That doesn't really play well in

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Speaker 3: New York. New York is more of a fast paced

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Speaker 3: and cocktail bars high end. It's a different philosophy, at

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Speaker 3: different mentality, a different vibe, different lifestyle, and frankly, a

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Speaker 3: different customer in a lot of cases.

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Speaker 1: I talked to her one time with the Guinness people,

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Speaker 1: and they said they had realized that Guinness essentially is

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Speaker 1: bought to sit and talk to people, and so they

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Speaker 1: were opening up all these Irish bars because people would

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Speaker 1: not buy Guinness to go home and drink alone, but

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Speaker 1: they'd go to the bar. Totally different culture. And of

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Speaker 1: course you're producing a beer that is perfect for watching

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Speaker 1: baseball or football or basketball. I mean it's sort of

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Speaker 1: a sports beer, if you will.

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Speaker 3: That's it lagger beer specifically, they're supposed to be sessionable

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Speaker 3: with laggers.

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Speaker 2: That's the beer that you drink.

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Speaker 3: A couple of them hanging out with friends over the

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Speaker 3: course of the game, which is different than an ipa

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Speaker 3: or kind of like a different beer. You might only

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Speaker 3: have one or two of them, but like it became

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Speaker 3: one of the largest beers because it was sessionable and

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Speaker 3: because of a sociable and because it brought folks together.

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Speaker 1: They make a decision which I had never seen, putting

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Speaker 1: context into your book. But in twenty sixteen, they create

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Speaker 1: the bud Light Party, thinking it's going to bring people

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Speaker 1: together and then run ads guaranteed to drive people apart.

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Speaker 1: It's a perfect example of elitist thinking with no understanding

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Speaker 1: of the country they're talking to.

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Speaker 3: One hundred percent. And this was part of the problem.

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Speaker 3: This was the same time when the company they moved

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Speaker 3: their headquarters from Saint Louis to New York City. At

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Speaker 3: the time, they had a Belgian who was running marketing

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Speaker 3: for the company for the entire US, and then they

381
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Speaker 3: had another Belgian person who was running marketing for bud Light.

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Speaker 3: And this is when you just have people that aren't

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Speaker 3: from the US, don't culturally get the US, and they're

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Speaker 3: trying to bring different values in. So they came up

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Speaker 3: with this campaign called the bud Light Party. And this

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Speaker 3: was during the election of twenty sixteen where Trump and

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Speaker 3: Hillary are running, and they tried to make a little

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Speaker 3: bit of a parody out of the campaign by saying,

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Speaker 3: you know, essentially vote for bud Light. But even that campaign,

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Speaker 3: a lot of these wholesalers, these independent wholesaleres we were

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Speaker 3: talking about. They were very much against this campaign. They

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Speaker 3: didn't want bud Light to get anywhere close to politics.

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Speaker 3: And even who bud Light hired to run that campaign,

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Speaker 3: which was Seth Rogan and Amy Schumer, tend to be

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Speaker 3: very progressive and they tend to be much more leftist,

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Speaker 3: and the campaign itself, it was not a success at all.

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Speaker 3: They started running even ads talking about how bud Light

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Speaker 3: they tried to make fun of it, about gender equality

399
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Speaker 3: and about LGBTQ rights and others, but it just didn't

400
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Speaker 3: work because it was always seen that bud Life's has

401
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Speaker 3: been funny in humorous, stayed us far away from politics.

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Speaker 2: So they actually after about five or.

403
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Speaker 3: Six months, they canceled the campaign because it was performing

404
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,680
Speaker 3: so poorly and so badly. The person who was running

405
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Speaker 3: bud Light at the time was a Belgian guy. He

406
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Speaker 3: ended up essentially getting fired from that job. But the

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Speaker 3: company of course didn't learn its lesson, as seven or

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Speaker 3: eight years later they had an even worse campaign with

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Speaker 3: the dylanmov APCE.

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Speaker 2: But they should have taken their lessons that time.

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Speaker 1: But I was surprised to read that when they ran

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Speaker 1: the bud Light Party sales fell like five percent in

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Speaker 1: the first half of the year. I mean, people were

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Speaker 1: just rejecting it.

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Speaker 2: They were exactly.

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Speaker 1: Why didn't that feedback suggest to leadership that maybe they

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Speaker 1: were doing something wrong.

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Speaker 3: I think part of it is that in large organizations,

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Speaker 3: especially with the move to New York City, you lost

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Speaker 3: a lot of the loyalty to the company, and there

421
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Speaker 3: was a lot of employee turnover. When the company was

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Speaker 3: based in Saint Louis, people were there, they were lifers

423
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Speaker 3: for Saint Louis, and you had a lot of longevity,

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Speaker 3: Whereas when the company moved to New York City, you

425
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Speaker 3: have people that can go and they can go work

426
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,639
Speaker 3: at anhazard Bush one week, and then they jumped to

427
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Speaker 3: Facebook the next week, and then Google the next week,

428
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Speaker 3: and then Banks and McKenzie. So turnover was incredibly high

429
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Speaker 3: at this time, and so I almost think the company

430
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Speaker 3: had really lost even sort of that muscle memory from

431
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Speaker 3: even seven years ago about what happened with the blud

432
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Speaker 3: Light Party campaign. And then really a lot of things

433
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Speaker 3: had changed as well over the seven year time period

434
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Speaker 3: between twenty sixteen and twenty three, specifically in terms of

435
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 3: more philosophically knew about what is.

436
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Speaker 2: The purpose of a business and the purpose of a corporation.

437
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Speaker 3: And historically in the United States, everyone had kind of

438
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 3: abided by the Milton Friedman in view of the world

439
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 3: that the purpose of a corporation is the service shareholders.

440
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Speaker 2: How do you do that? You make great products and services.

441
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,440
Speaker 3: But especially after Trump was elected in twenty sixteen and

442
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 3: pulled out of organizations like the Paris Climate Accords, the

443
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 3: World Health Organization, there was this real allergic reaction, especially

444
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,200
Speaker 3: from West coast states that control a lot of money

445
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,000
Speaker 3: and pension funds, state of California, state of New York,

446
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,359
Speaker 3: a lot of European sovereign wealth funds, and they started

447
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,440
Speaker 3: putting a lot of pressure on business because they owned

448
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 3: shares on a lot of businesses to evolve and to

449
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 3: adopt a broader view of capitalism and a stakeholder capitalism.

450
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 3: And they essentially said, well, if Donald Trump and government's

451
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 3: not going to fix existential crises of you name it,

452
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 3: climate change and systemic racism and all these other issues,

453
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 3: that now business needed to solve these issues. And so

454
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 3: there became a lot of pressure on businesses over the

455
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 3: kind of that seven year time period to get more

456
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 3: involved in issues and you saw sort of an uptick

457
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 3: in companies getting involved in a lot of social and

458
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 3: political issues. And I think that Anheuser Bush was uniquely

459
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 3: susceptible to a lot of these pressures, being a European

460
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 3: based company and abiding by this more European stakeholder capitalism

461
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 3: model of business pushed by Klaus Schwab.

462
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 2: World economic for him and kind of the Davos crowd.

463
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 1: There's a very large block of Americans who love sports,

464
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,640
Speaker 1: and they love almost any kind of sports. Whether you're

465
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 1: talking about Ultimate fighting or you're talking about baseball, soccer, hockey,

466
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 1: that doesn't matter. This like sports, sports are inherently conservative

467
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 1: because you get winners and losers. There's a meritocracy you

468
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 1: have to practice. Trump intuited, I think probably just because

469
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,120
Speaker 1: he liked it. Long before I ran for president, he

470
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 1: was totally immersed in sports. You know, we go to

471
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 1: boxing and Las Vegas. He at one point he owned

472
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 1: a football team. And I watched him, just before the

473
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: election go to the Ultimate Fighting Championship. I realized, suddenly

474
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: they're about four or five million young men who were

475
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 1: watching that fight, and they're watching Donald Trump enjoying what

476
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 1: they enjoyed, which is part of why I think he

477
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: did so remarkably well with younger people because they could

478
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 1: feel together well in a sense, it seems to me

479
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,719
Speaker 1: that's the bud Light market. I mean, the bud Light

480
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: markt is the person who doesn't want to talk politics

481
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,400
Speaker 1: and they don't want to be involved in fights in Washington.

482
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: They want to enjoy life, have their favorite team or

483
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: player or whatever, and relax. They go to sports to relax.

484
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 1: They don't go to sports to have a political fight.

485
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 3: You know, Knude, if this doesn't work out for you,

486
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 3: maybe you should be the next VP of bud Light

487
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 3: because you get the customer more than others. You're right,

488
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 3: And that's what was really a head scratcher to me

489
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 3: because in twenty sixteen, that was when actually bud Light

490
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 3: dropped these partnership with the UFC that they had at

491
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 3: the time because again they had more of these Belgian

492
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 3: marketers European marketers coming in and they wanted to switch

493
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 3: the brand, and they switched the brand more towards getting

494
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 3: a little bit more politicized. This was silly to me,

495
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 3: but over in Europe and Belgium, techno festivals were big,

496
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 3: so techno music, so they canceled a lot of these

497
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 3: partnerships and events with country music festivals and country music artists.

498
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 3: Here in the US, people drink a ton of beer

499
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 3: country music festivals. That's the customer who doesn't drink a

500
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 3: lot of beer. As people who are going to techno festivals,

501
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 3: they're doing I don't know, molly and drugs and everything else,

502
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden they were switching these It

503
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 3: just didn't make sense. To people like myself that were

504
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 3: from the US, from the Midwest, it made no sense.

505
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 3: And to your point, beer is kind of a young person,

506
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 3: especially males who drink it, very associated with sports, and

507
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 3: UFC was becoming one of the most popular sports. It

508
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 3: was very popular as well with Hispanics, and Hispanics are

509
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 3: a big population that drinks beer. And you see some

510
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 3: of the ascendancy of even Modello, which passed bud like

511
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 3: through the number one beer. Modella picked up that UFC

512
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 3: sponsorship when bud Light initially dropped it in twenty sixteen,

513
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 3: and then Modella went kind of through the roof at

514
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 3: that time, and that's when we start to see bud

515
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,719
Speaker 3: Light especially start to wendle in its sales.

516
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: Historically, things like Corona were big, and now all of

517
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: a sudden you have Modello, which just explodes. I think

518
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 1: it's probably larger in America than all the other Mexican

519
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: beers combined. It's remarkable.

520
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: And Modello is now the largest beer brand in the

521
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 2: United States, which is interesting to think you actually have

522
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 2: a Mexican beer that is the largest beer brand. But

523
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 2: it goes back to your point again, who drinks a

524
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 2: lot of beer.

525
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 3: It's especially a bunch of young males that like sports,

526
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 3: and there's a lot of Hispanics in this country. There

527
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 3: are young males and like sports, but there's even a

528
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 3: lot of Caucasian and African American, Asian and others. Those

529
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 3: are a lot of young males that like sports. And

530
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 3: Modello probably advertises more than bud Light does on NFL.

531
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 3: You see it on NFL, you see UFC.

532
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: Do you think the Belgians in the back of their

533
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: mind sort of thought they could somehow evolve bud Light

534
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 1: so it was competing with Chablie and Chardona and the

535
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: upscale crowd because a lot of their advertising only made

536
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: sense if you were trying to actually compete with the

537
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: white wine market.

538
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 3: You're right, and there's always this fallacy in the beer

539
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 3: market that says, Okay, you know, we serve a lot

540
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 3: of young men, but how do we get more I

541
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: don't know, young women, or how do we get other

542
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 3: people to drink more beer? And I think that's kind

543
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 3: of somewhat silly. You know, if you want to reach

544
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 3: more of that crowd, go acquire a wine company, or

545
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 3: go acquire a seltzer company, or do something different. But

546
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 3: you want to let bud Light be bud Light, and

547
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 3: you want to compete against Miller Lite and cores Light

548
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 3: and try and get more Miller Lite and cores Light

549
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 3: customers because that's still the largest segment of the beer market.

550
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 3: Is that core domestic beer. Bud Light, Miller Like cores

551
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 3: Light combine dwarf any other sort of three beers in

552
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 3: terms of market.

553
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 2: Size and potential.

554
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 3: And what's interesting about Miller Like cores Light bud Light

555
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 3: is that for most Americans they're indistinguishable. I mean, ninety

556
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 3: five percent of people can't tell the difference between a

557
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 3: bud Light and Miller Like cores Light. But what really

558
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 3: distinguishes is their brand.

559
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: So you're saying, if you did atline taste test with

560
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: the three, it's very hard to figure out which one you're.

561
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 2: Drinking, very hard.

562
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 3: I mean for ninety five percent Americans, they can't tell

563
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 3: the difference. Now there's a grade five percent that have

564
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 3: the right palette and like it enough. But for ninety

565
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: five percent people to them a bud Light miller like

566
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 3: course Light, they're almost indistinguishable, and you're really going to

567
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 3: pick it based off the brand.

568
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure. So they're in that sort of a rut,

569
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: and Sunday they come up with Dylan Molvany. How far

570
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: out of touch with the American reality do you think

571
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: they had to be to think that would work.

572
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 3: You're out of touch enough that you lost millions of consumers.

573
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 3: At this point forty percent of their sales. They're still

574
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 3: down forty percent versus where they were before this Dilan

575
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 3: move Any partnership. The stock that they's lost at least

576
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 3: two billion dollars worth of profits. Here in the US,

577
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 3: the stock price is off by forty percent since before

578
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 3: they did this Dilan move Any deal, and when the

579
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 3: broader stock markets are up almost forty percent.

580
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 2: So it is to.

581
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 3: Realize how out of touch not only they were to

582
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 3: do the Dilan mov Any partnership, but I even think

583
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 3: newt the response was just as bad as the partnership itself,

584
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 3: where the company was unable to clearly articulate what's the

585
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 3: mission of budlfe, who bud Light is going to serve,

586
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 3: what the brand stands for. They were almost caught between

587
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 3: this rock and a hard place, where on one side

588
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 3: they were trying to figure out how not to lose

589
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 3: any more of their core customers just wanted.

590
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 2: Bud Light to stay out of politics.

591
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 3: But there's been a ton of pressure over the last

592
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 3: four or five years from Biden administration, from big asset

593
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 3: managers like Blackrock, State Street, Vanguard that were pushing in

594
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 3: ESG and DEI agenda. There was, as I call it,

595
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 3: the ideological industrial complex, consultancies that were pushing companies to

596
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 3: become more about diversity, equity, and inclusion. A lot of organizations,

597
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 3: nonprofits and activists had popped up, like the Human Rights

598
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 3: Campaign that were pushing companies to get more involved in

599
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 3: doing transgender affirmation care as part of healthcare policies and

600
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: doing more specific advertisements to that community. And we're penalizing

601
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 3: companies if they weren't. So there was this whole complex

602
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 3: that was putting a lot of pressure on organizations, and

603
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 3: unfortunately a lot of companies were participus We sow Disney

604
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 3: got involved and pronal rights issues in Florida.

605
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 2: You saw Target got involved in a bunch of issues.

606
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 3: But Light was really uniquely susceptible because they were this,

607
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 3: i mean down hoe Midwestern brand, and its products were indistinguishable,

608
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 3: and that's how out of touch they were that it

609
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 3: was very easy for consumers to walk away from butt

610
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: Light because anywhere you have a six pack upud light,

611
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 3: you also have that Core's Light and Miller Lite, and

612
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 3: for consumers it's just as indistinguishable to pick one or

613
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 3: the other.

614
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 1: What was the whole nature of the reaction of the

615
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: American people to the Mulvania.

616
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 3: The reaction was immediate and swift, and as you recalled,

617
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 3: this added happened on April first, so April Fool's Day,

618
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 3: and a lot of people thought that this literally might

619
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 3: be a joke because Phili Mulmani was a very controversial

620
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 3: political figure. Dylan had just documented this three hundred and

621
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 3: sixty five days of Girlhood where she transitioned from a

622
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 3: biological male to female, and over that time period had

623
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: gone to the Biden White House was advocating for gender

624
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 3: affirmation care for youth, with the Biden administration was advocating

625
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 3: for biological males compete against women in sports. And these

626
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 3: were all very controversial subjects, especially around this time. I

627
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 3: think there were twenty five bills that were in state

628
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 3: houses around the time that were trying to ban gender

629
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 3: affirmation care.

630
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: There was also if you were called. A week leading

631
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: up to.

632
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 3: This, there was a mass shooting at a Christian school

633
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 3: in Tennessee where there was a transgendered shooter that killed

634
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 3: a number of folks into school in Tennessee. So issues

635
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 3: surrounding sort of transgender rights, transgender legislation, it was very

636
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 3: very topical at the time. And so when bud Light

637
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 3: all of a sudden seemed to come out and support

638
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 3: this agenda and it was really never again a political brand,

639
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 3: a lot of its customers revolted, said Kid Rock, I

640
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 3: mean that would be a bud Light drinker all of

641
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 3: a sudden took out his AR fifteen and shot up

642
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 3: a bunch of cases. A bunch of country music stars

643
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 3: kicked bud Light off their tour buses. But then everyday

644
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 3: folks as well started posting videos about them not buying

645
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 3: bud Light, about them throwing out bud Light, about them

646
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 3: going to the store seeing that Core's Light and Miller

647
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 3: Lite were out of stock but bud Light.

648
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: Was in store.

649
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 3: And this is when the American population for the first

650
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 3: time actually organized a very successful boycott of a company.

651
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 3: And they did this because it was just as easy

652
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 3: to buy Miller lt.

653
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 2: And Course Light.

654
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 3: And then every week the sales data from Walmart and

655
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 3: Kroger and seven to eleven were beers sold. It gets

656
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 3: reported nationally and people could see that sales were down

657
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 3: a bud Light ten percent and twenty percent and thirty percent,

658
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 3: So they were having an incredible impact on the sales

659
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 3: of the brand, which kept the boycott going in a

660
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 3: big way. And then there was continued fuel on the

661
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 3: fire when the company, Anheuser Busch, could not have a

662
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 3: credible response to what was going on. They refused either

663
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 3: again apologize to their customer base, nor did they double

664
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 3: down and say, no, bud Light's going to be heading

665
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: in a direction like maybe Ben and Jerry's we're going

666
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 3: to be more socially progressive and we're going to be

667
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 3: leaning into these And because of that, they kind of

668
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 3: took this middle ground, and they ended up getting shot

669
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 3: at from both sides in this cultural war where they

670
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 3: lost their traditional more loyalist type of consumers wanted to

671
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 3: be a political Then they lost a lot more of

672
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 3: their progressive consumers as well that wanted them.

673
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: To be more socially liberal with their advertising.

674
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: You know, in the middle of this disaster, I mean,

675
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: you just something that's pretty courageous. You write a letter

676
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: to Brendan Whitworth asking that he stepped down as CEO.

677
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: I mean that takes a lot of guts.

678
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 3: Interesting enough, I had left Annheuser Busch about a year

679
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 3: before this happened because I saw a lot of the

680
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 3: problems materializing at the company. The marketing had changed, their

681
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 3: DEI ESG policies had changed, they were struggling to find

682
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 3: their consumer base, and so I left to actually start

683
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 3: a company called Strive Asset Management with a buddy of

684
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 3: min from high school, Vivek Ramaswami. And this was before

685
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 3: he was running for president and doing Doze with Elon Musk.

686
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 3: But the idea behind Strive was to keep companies out

687
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 3: of politics and keep them folks on their mission and.

688
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 2: Creating shareholder value.

689
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 3: Then a year later, when bud Light did this partnership

690
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 3: with Dylan Mulvani on April Fool's Day, and again a

691
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 3: lot of people thought it was a joke and it wasn't.

692
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 3: And the CEO, Brendan Whitworth, had multiple opportunities to course

693
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 3: correct and to come out clearly talk about this campaign.

694
00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: Was it a mistake or not?

695
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 3: Bud Light's direction going to be had multiple chances do it,

696
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 3: didn't do it, could never clear articulate.

697
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: The stock price was down.

698
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 3: I was still a big shareholder of the company, so

699
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 3: I wrote a letter and just saying that Brandon is

700
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 3: the CEO of the company, him being infiduciary, him trying

701
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 3: to act in the best interest to shareholders, he was

702
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 3: failing people, and therefore he needed to step down and

703
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 3: let somebody else come back and be able to course

704
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 3: correct and get the ship going back in the right direction.

705
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: Did you get any reaction.

706
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 3: I got a lot of reaction from the wholesaler partners

707
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 3: at Annehezer Busch. A lot of people reached out to

708
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 3: me and said, hey, keep it up, keep up what

709
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 3: you're doing. You're the only person that is publicly advocating

710
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 3: for policies that make a lot of sense because those

711
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 3: wholesalers that we spoke about, the Andy mccains in Arizona,

712
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 3: they have a strong percentage of their business I mean

713
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 3: eighty to ninety percent of their business in a lot

714
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: of cases, Anne Hazer Bush and when their largest brand,

715
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 3: bud Light, is down thirty and forty percent, all of

716
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 3: a sudden, these guys are losing millions of dollars.

717
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 2: They had to lay off a lot of their employees.

718
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 3: There were a lot of suppliers also that had to

719
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 3: shut down and close and as a Bush had to

720
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 3: fire a lot of people, it became the poster chot

721
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 3: of really what went wrong with this whole esg DEI

722
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 3: very politicized movement in corporate America where you just saw

723
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 3: that these policies not only did they not deliver any

724
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 3: real value to shareholders, nor did they help make society better.

725
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: If anything, they made it worse. And there are a

726
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 2: lot of consequences.

727
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 3: So a lot of those folks that got hurt were

728
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 3: the ones that reached out and said thank you for

729
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 3: speaking up and saying something.

730
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: What do you think that future holds for bud Light

731
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: and Frandeuser bush Well?

732
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 2: I still think that they have sort of choices to make.

733
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 3: I'm a big advocate right now that I think the

734
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 3: business is better off being sold here in the United States. So,

735
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 3: as we mentioned InBev's this large corporation that it's the

736
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: largest beer company in the world. They sell one out

737
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 3: of four beers globally. They have big operations not only

738
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: here in the US where they own Anheuser Bush, but

739
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 3: they own a bunch of beer brands in South America.

740
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 3: Over in Europe they owned Stellar, Artwa and Hogarden. In

741
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 3: Africa they own Carling and others. And I actually think

742
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 3: right now the company is best served by actually selling

743
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 3: the US business, selling Anheuser Bush, whether it's selling it

744
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 3: back to the Bush family or selling it to somebody

745
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 3: like I don't know, Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway and

746
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 3: getting it really back in US hands. And I think

747
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:25,959
Speaker 3: they need to first off go on a big sort

748
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 3: of PR blitzing campaign about this. And I don't think

749
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 3: they're really going to get any of their customers back

750
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 3: until they do think about it. I mean, it's be

751
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 3: an amazing comeback story. It's owned by Warren Buffett or

752
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 3: somebody else, say, hey, back in American hands, back in

753
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,720
Speaker 3: American values. This whole bud light thing was a mistake.

754
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 3: Now we're getting back to serving our core customers. Here's

755
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 3: how we're doing it. I think you could unlock an

756
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 3: amazing amount of value. There'd be a ton of people

757
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 3: that would come back to this company. But otherwise I

758
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 3: don't know how they recover because the other path that

759
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 3: they've taken is they still have a any mistake for

760
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 3: this bud light controversy. And really I always say the

761
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 3: path the redemption goes through forgiveness. But to be forgiven,

762
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 3: I have to admit that there was a mistake that

763
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 3: was made. Otherwise no one's going to forgive you. And

764
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 3: they refuse to admit there was a mistake. It's been

765
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 3: almost two years now, so with the people that are

766
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 3: currently there, I don't think they can authentically do it.

767
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 3: So they're going to either continue to kind of decline

768
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 3: and have more of kind of a slow death in

769
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 3: the US, or I think they sell the business and

770
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 3: they can get right back on track very very quickly.

771
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 2: That's how I see this unfolding.

772
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: You reminded me my younger daughter was an intern in

773
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 1: Coca Cola when they introduced new coke and the reaction

774
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: was so hostile that within a very few weeks, the

775
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 1: CEO had to go on television and give a speech

776
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: and say, we made a mistake, we misunderstood, we're bringing

777
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: back coke. We apologize. And she was there for all

778
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: of it. She was in charge of editing the daily news,

779
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: the volume they were getting headline stories. She would call

780
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: me in breaking up, laughing and say, these guys are

781
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: in such trouble, but they recognize it and they reverse course.

782
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: The reverse course.

783
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 3: They had a much better PR team and a crisis

784
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 3: team that kind of got them out of that situation

785
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 3: because they admitted there was a problem, there was a mistake.

786
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: Well, but it goes to your point about New York

787
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: versus Saint Louis. Because they were in Atlanta. One of

788
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: the senior vice presidents said to me they couldn't go

789
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: to a cocktail party without people backing them into the

790
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: wall and yelling at them. And about three weeks of that,

791
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: they figured this is really not sustainable.

792
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 3: And I think that's what's tough is then when the

793
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 3: company was based in now New York City and all

794
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 3: of the executives are in New York City, they can't

795
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 3: go to cocktail parties in New York City without saying, hey,

796
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 3: why aren't you guys standing by Dylan mulvany, or why

797
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 3: aren't you guys doing more advertising? And the problem is

798
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 3: that bud Light was never a brand that was supposed

799
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 3: to be like Ben and Jerry's. If you were Ben

800
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 3: and Jerry's, and Ben and Jerry says, hey, we're a

801
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 3: socially progressive brand. We use ice cream to advance I mean,

802
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 3: you name it, defund the police initiatives, overturning election integrity laws,

803
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 3: the LGBTQ plus agenda. Man, it's a free country. Like

804
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 3: Ben and Jerry's can do that. That's their brand, But

805
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 3: that's not the bud Light brand. And that was the

806
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 3: whole problem. And I even think it's interesting now because

807
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 3: I think this story is as relevant now as it

808
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 3: really ever was. I mean, you've seen Trump has rolled

809
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 3: back a lot of the DEI initiatives. Some companies already

810
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 3: were going that direction because they saw these polish were divisive.

811
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 3: Meta had rolled them back, Walmart had McDonald's been Other

812
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 3: companies are doubling down. Costco, which is based in Seattle's

813
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 3: doubling down on the whole DII Agenda, JP Morgan based

814
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 3: in New York Is. So I still think that you're

815
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 3: going to see a lot of controversy over the next

816
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 3: couple of years about what our businesses supposed to do.

817
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 2: And again this book, I mean.

818
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 3: Last Call for bud Light, it tells sort of what

819
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 3: do you do in these crises?

820
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 2: What should companies do?

821
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 3: What's going to be better for business and better for

822
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 3: I think everyday citizens as well.

823
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: Moving forward, they have this tremendous drop which is really

824
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,919
Speaker 1: stunning at the time. How much have they recovered since then?

825
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: So they haven't recovered at all since then.

826
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 3: So sales in the weeks afterwards were down approximately thirty percent.

827
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 3: That was in twenty twenty three. They were down almost

828
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 3: thirty percent. In twenty twenty four they were down another

829
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 3: I think ten percent on bud Light, and to start

830
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,720
Speaker 3: this year they continue to be down again.

831
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: Once your brand starts to sync, unless something dramatic happens,

832
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: it becomes cumulative and people say, well, that's not what

833
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 1: I drink anymore.

834
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 3: That's it. It's not what I drink anymore. And then,

835
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 3: especially when the American population was really looking for their

836
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 3: CEO to come out and to make a strong statement

837
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 3: and talk about what bud light is. And he really

838
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 3: had three opportunities to do it. The first time, about

839
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 3: two weeks after the controversy, he released a statement where

840
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 3: he neither acknowledged the controversy, why they were in the controversy,

841
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 3: or how they were going to get out of the controversy.

842
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 2: And they kind of had a patronizing ad.

843
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 3: Of kind of a Budweiser running across the country and

844
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 3: it was panned across the country about saying, this is

845
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 3: not how you handle a crisis.

846
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 2: So sales continued to fall.

847
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 3: A month later, there was another statement that it was

848
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 3: also a nothing burger where it didn't admit mistake. And

849
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 3: then there was a third opportunity where the CEO, Brendan Witworth,

850
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 3: had an opportunity to go on CBS, and he was

851
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 3: on CBS going to July fourth weekend, which is the

852
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 3: biggest beer selling holiday of the year, and he tried

853
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 3: to write the ship but he was very much coached

854
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 3: going into this to not again address the controversy, and

855
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 3: the CBS host asked the first question was essentially, hey,

856
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 3: knowing what you know now, would you do this.

857
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: Campaign again or was it a mistake?

858
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 3: And he gave a very wishy washy, evasive answer, and

859
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 3: the host came back and said, to be clear, you

860
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 3: are in the problem, in the situation you're in because

861
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 3: of the answer you just gave, or you didn't answer

862
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 3: the question, So let me ask it again because the

863
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 3: American population wants to know was this mistake?

864
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 2: Would you do it again?

865
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 3: And again gave an evasive, wishy washing answer, and ever

866
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 3: since then, I mean, sales continue to decline to suffer.

867
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 3: That's when I wrote my op ed saying this is

868
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 3: why you need to step down. This is not how

869
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 3: you do crisis management. This brand's not going to come back.

870
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 3: People are now moving on, and then you have a

871
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 3: compounding issue where once the sales are down that much, Walmart,

872
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 3: Kroger seven to eleven start taking your shelf space away,

873
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 3: and then when they take your shelf space away, then

874
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 3: it's very very hard to get your sales back because

875
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 3: you're out of stock.

876
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: Well, Angel, I want to thank you for joining me.

877
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 1: Your new book and I love the title, Last Call

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00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 1: for bud Light, The Fall and Future of America's Favorite Beer,

879
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Speaker 1: is available now in Amazon and in bookstores everywhere. It's

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Speaker 1: a fascinating read. We're going to feature a link to

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Speaker 1: buy it on our show page. I'd really thank you

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00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: for this extraordinarily interesting conversation.

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00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having dude. I really appreciate it.

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00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: Thank you to my guests Dance on Prericks. You can

885
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: get a link to buy his new book, Last Call

886
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Speaker 1: for bud Light, The Fall and Future of America's Favorite

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Speaker 1: Beer on our show page at newtsworld dot com. New

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00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: World is produced by Gingwish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our

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00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: executive producer is Guernsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson.

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00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley.

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00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at Gingwish three sixty. If

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00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple

893
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Speaker 1: Podcasts and both rate us with five stars and give

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Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about.

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00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my

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Speaker 1: three free weekly columns at gingrishtree sixty dot com slash

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00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: new sletter. I'm nude Gingrich. This is newts Work.