WEBVTT - Virtual Eventuality 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.240 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:14.840 Forward Thinking, Hi, and welcome to Forward Thinking, the show 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:16.960 that looks at the future and says, who can tell 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:20.119 what magic spells will be doing for us? I'm Lauren 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.599 voc Obam, and I'm Joe McCormick, and our host Jonathan 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:27.040 Strickland is out today because he was not feeling well. Yes, 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.240 we decided to allow him that. Yeah, but we hope 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:33.479 he is feeling better soon. And today we're going to 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.560 be recording without him, but he will be back next time. Yes, 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:38.720 And he is here very much in spirit with us. 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.960 Because Okay, so we're talking today about virtual reality. Virtual 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:47.879 reality that's the future if it's nine Yeah, according to 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:52.120 every single movie that came out during that entire decade, UM, 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:54.600 and also most of Star Trek the next generation, this 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:58.360 is all going to be virtual reality right here on out. 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.080 Just Max Headroom will rule us all. Yeah, Like you 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.760 were saying that Jonathan is with us in spirit, right, 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.480 because he wrote a couple of really great articles on 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:08.640 how stuff works that we have used to kind of 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:12.360 form the basis of our information here, um, and we 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:14.800 can we can link those out somewhere on the interwebs 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:18.000 that are easy to find. But I have never actually 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:21.920 used a virtual reality headset. But I hear Joe that 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.880 you have some experience with this. I have a couple 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:26.920 of times. I remember there was like a so I 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:29.800 was at a music festival sometime in the nineties when 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.120 I was a kid. Uh it was the Riverbend festival 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:35.560 in Chattanoo. Game and they had this tent there that 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.039 was like a traveling tent where they had virtual reality 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.319 set up. But I barely remember it. I just remember 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:42.480 I stood in line for a really long time, and 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:44.679 I think I got to play for like five minutes, 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:49.880 and it costs, you know, like all the money I had. Um. 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:52.440 I don't remember much about the experience except that it 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:54.600 went over my head and I was sitting in a 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.640 chair and I was using these controllers and and it 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:00.680 was like like a typical like game like soul controller 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.880 kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was fairly immersive. Also. 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:06.400 The other thing was I don't know if you remember 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:10.480 you remember the Virtual Boy. I do not personally, UM, 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:13.280 but I have read some really entertaining things about it 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:17.880 on the internet a k a. The Red Headache Machine. UM. 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:21.679 It was it's okay. Just imagine like one of those 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:25.720 things that the viewfinder the yeah, yeah, that the little 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:29.400 the little click aty things. Yet okay, so it's like 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:31.480 you strap one of those to your head, except it's 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:35.040 really big and it and it only shows you two colors, 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.440 black and red, and it causes migraines. And that sounds 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:42.120 like the best video game up. When when the Virtual 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.320 Boy came out, what I can't remember how old I was, 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.600 I was probably like I'm gonna guess, like seventh grade 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.800 or something. Um, And it came out. One of my 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.160 friends got one, and we all got together at his 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.560 house and we were like, well, we're gonna play this thing. 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:59.480 And the way it is at the time, like when 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.160 you're a little kid like you, you don't realize things 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.640 are bad. It's like, you know, everything is fun and 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.480 new and exciting, and even a kind of terrible experience 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:09.080 is like, oh man, why did I do that? It 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.799 was great? Yeah, Like I never realized there was such 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:13.839 thing as a bad movie. It's like I just saw 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:16.880 Operation Dumbo drop. It was great. Let's go see it again, 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:21.720 you know, and um, but yeah, I just thought this 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:24.160 thing was awesome. Meanwhile, we were like kids sitting there, 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:28.440 like just taking tile at all from the parents because 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:32.720 it was really painful to the eyes, and it was 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.520 just an awful experience of red paint the bridge of 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:40.560 your nose. Uh. The screens and these things were made 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:42.520 of L e d s, which was actually pretty impressive 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.680 at the time because most most video screens were being 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.520 made of l c ds liquid crystal displays, or they 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:53.360 were still cathode ray tubes. So so it was an 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:56.520 impressive technological feat. Um. But but the thing about red 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:58.320 L E d s, especially at the times that they 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:00.920 were it was made of this but because they were 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.400 so cheap and so bright, they were the brightest, cheapest 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.320 dilties that they could possibly make. And I don't think 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:07.760 that anyone thought to like install the dimmer switch in there. 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.440 They weren't. Really it wasn't This was a terrible, terrible 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.520 disaster for Nintendo, wasn't it. I think so? Well. I mean, 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:19.160 a couple of things to say about it. Number One, 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:23.440 it wasn't really virtual reality, wasn't. I mean, it depends 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:26.560 on how you define it. But actually let's refer to 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:31.360 Jonathan's definition in the article, because I think it's pretty good. Sure, sure, 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:35.279 He defines it from two points, the first being three 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:38.000 dimential images that appear to be life sized from the 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:41.520 perspective of the user. Okay, so it was kind of that, 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:44.120 I mean it was there was a lot of like 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.440 simulated three D based on these sort of red lattices 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:51.080 and stuff like that. Um. And but the other thing 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:55.359 is the ability to track the user's motions, particularly head 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.200 or eye movements, um and adjust the images on the 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.880 users display to reflect the change in perspective. And the 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.440 virtual boy was I mean essentially table mounted, wasn't it. 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:09.359 It sat on a stand like a tripod stand, and 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:13.000 you just put your face in you when you move around. Um. 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:15.080 I mean you'd move around when you get dizzy and 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.360 start falling out of the chair, but you didn't. It 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.640 wasn't supposed to be moving with you, and it wouldn't 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.520 follow you. Yeah. Yeah, you didn't strap it to your head. Okay. 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:25.839 So it was like it was a thing that a 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.880 lot of people were thinking of as virtual reality, but 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:32.279 it wasn't quite there. Um. What we're thinking about with 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:37.160 virtual reality is something that's a more natural experience, that 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.560 that stays with your face in a way, like you 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.200 you are having this experience and you're not going to 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:45.760 be able to just look away from it a right. 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:47.520 I think the kind of hope and dream is is 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.000 that star trek Holideck kind of thing where where you're 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:52.920 just immersed in a virtual environment and to the point 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.400 where you can interact with objects there and barely even 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:59.080 tell the fact that it's virtual. Yeah, um, hopefully, except 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:00.919 not with like the messy like every single time they 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.080 went to the holiday something completely terrible happened and that 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.760 moriarity took over the ship and whatever. So so without 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:10.360 without that part. Um. But historically speaking, this has been 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:12.800 in the works for for a really long time or 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:14.400 I mean, you know, a relatively long time since the 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:19.159 nineteen sixties anyway, And um okay, so so the very 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.520 first kind of example that we have of anything even 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:27.120 vaguely like this is um Morton Helligs or Helix I'm sorry. 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:31.400 Um Sinsarama, which was in nineteen sixty was a stereoscopic 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:36.599 um head mounted display that also involved like fans and 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.920 and and sent squirters and and stereo speakers and any 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:46.280 moving chair um, which overall sounds completely miserable to me personally, 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:48.240 although I've been on some rides at like Disney and 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.320 Universal Studios. That's seem a little bit similar. But I 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:53.600 can imagine that in nineteen sixty this wasn't actually an 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.880 extraordinarily pleasant experience. You know, in nineteen sixty there were 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.520 a lot of bad movies out there in gimmicks like 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.280 three d oh. Yeah, they could really pull you in. 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.520 And I guess this is just like the ultimate gimmick 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.120 for the sensory experience of the movie. And I'm picturing 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.800 like a film, probably not quite to the high quality 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:15.000 of Incident Price's work that that would have just just 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.880 been I don't know, like giant spiders. I'm not sure 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:21.160 what giant spiders smell like, but it was probably very particular. 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:26.600 They smell like watermelons. Actually really science fact not really. 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:33.239 Um now, okay, so so the first, um, the first 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:37.000 real head mounted display was created in nineteen sixty one 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.760 by phil Co Corporation. That was called the head Site. 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.680 And this was a video feed only. Yeah, head Site. 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:46.200 These names are only going to get more closed, um 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:49.280 And this was this was video it wasn't computer generated, 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:51.520 so so it was hooked up to a camera and 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:53.840 you could use it like in dangerous situations where you 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.280 want to send a camera instead of a person and 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.679 UM and people could use that camera to look around 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:02.320 or or if you hooked it up to and like 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.760 infrared camera feed on the bottom of a helicopter, the 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.520 pilot could use that to look around and figure out 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.440 what was going on. UM and UH. Later on in 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:16.040 the sixties, we started getting the concepts for what we 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.360 think of as being VR today and and that's that's 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.600 a computer generated image that is being fed through a 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:26.960 headset UM you know, hypothetically uh tethered to a you know, 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.360 tethered physically to a giant computer and hypothetically with some 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.240 kind of motion tracking in the headset. But he never 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.880 the guy creating this U Ivan Sutherland at the time, 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:41.120 did not come up with anything vaguely close to that 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:44.480 in in like physical prototype. I don't think it would 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.160 take another couple of decades and involvement from like NASA 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.079 and the Department of Defense and the National Science Foundation 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:55.480 and the CIA before we started getting UM kind of 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:59.080 industrial use virtual reality stuff to help train astronauts for 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:02.760 spacewalks and uh a flight and vehicle sim kind of stuff. 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:07.679 And it wasn't until four that a guy named Michael 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:11.800 McGreevy started experimenting with using this kind of technology as 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.960 a computer interface, which is what we're really talking about 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:18.160 when we're talking about video games and and virtual reality, 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:19.960 which is kind of what we're going to move into 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:23.240 in the second half of this podcast. So uh so, yeah, 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.719 So it wasn't you know that that fascinates me that 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:28.720 we had had this kind of concept for a really 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.400 long time. It was never called virtual reality until after 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:35.760 all of that in seven when Jaren Lanier coined the term. 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.040 But but, and and and that's I think when the 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.559 media finally picked up on the fact that this existed. 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:49.520 And then all those all those horrible virtual reality movies. 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:52.840 What were some of them? We were talking right before 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:56.160 the podcast about virtuosity, which I hadn't even thought about 0:09:56.240 --> 0:10:00.600 in decades. That was tiny, cheepy wrestle crow. Yeah, yeah, 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.800 he he plays when he's like a digital serial killer 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:09.160 and some police training module. He like escapes into the 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:13.400 real world, you know, struts around. I'll staying alive place 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:17.080 behind them. Of course he's gonna, I don't know, like 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.160 kill people with pixels. I don't remember what he did. 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.680 I do not I write. I think I've blocked this 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:23.800 to that just he just like walks up to you 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:28.480 and gives you the blue screen of death. Oh no, um, 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.040 it's strange days. I guess it's kind of similar to that. 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.720 I'm a much a much better version of virtual reality, 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:38.120 aside from the kind of terrible part of it. Um or, 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:40.840 I guess, well, it's into virtual memories. I don't know, 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.200 I'm not sure if that counts or not. I know, 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:47.079 there are a bunch of these movies. Of course, lawnmower Man, 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:49.640 I don't know. Oh yeah, yeah, lawnmower Man. You gotta 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:54.320 go with what a horrible movie. And sequels there was 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:56.839 there was at least one sequel to that involved. Well, 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.960 so the media and movies and everything really took this 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.560 concept of virtual reality and ran with it. And we're 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:07.319 still suffering from that today. The fact that this technology 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:11.559 just got horribly, horribly overhyped. Well, yeah, I mean because 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:14.880 the computer processing, we're still catching up to a point 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.240 where we can create a headset that's that's going to 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:23.440 be convincingly real looking from you know, and and hey, 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.320 computers have developed a lot in the past couple of decades, 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.480 and we're still kind of like almost there, but not quite. Yeah, 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.120 not to mention just graphics bect then we're terrible. And 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:35.959 and the expectation I think was immediately that it's going 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.440 to look like um, like high quality video or something 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:44.000 like that, We're just like real life. Uh. It was insanity. 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:47.200 And and then when people really got to experience what 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.760 we were talking about with through something like virtual Boy, yeah, 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:53.240 which is it wasn't even really virtual reality. I mean, 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:54.800 even if they did what I did and then went 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.400 to some tent where they had a virtual reality station 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:01.400 set up, it had to be massively dis pointing, like 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.000 it could not have competed with what you saw in 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.600 the movies and what you assumed when you heard some 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:10.120 news story about it or whatever. Um. And and so 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:15.480 I think virtual reality is uh still suffering from this. 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:20.280 It was this big calamity of over hype and underperformance 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:24.839 of the hardware and and just nothing really cool about it. 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.640 And now when you think of that, or at least 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:30.320 when I think of it, I just grown like like, oh, 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:34.560 don't even talk to me about virtual reality. So virtual 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.640 reality is dead, right, Oh yeah, totally dead. That's absolutely 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.720 why the Oculus rift raised two million, four hundred and 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.320 thirty seven thousand, four hundred and twenty nine dollars in 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:49.960 their Kickstarter campaign at the end of Big Surprise. Actually, 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:55.000 the cool thing is that while everybody was so over 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:59.280 virtual reality, it was actually getting good and okay. So 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.520 so Palmer luck Key is the guy who, um kind 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:06.480 of originally created the idea for the Oculus Rift. He 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.240 was working at the time with a virtual reality exposure 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:14.480 therapy program that helps veterans with PTSD. Yeah and um, 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:16.880 but but those are those are huge expensive machines, and 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:18.960 he was a hobbyist who kind of wanted something that 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.440 didn't cost you know, a thousand, five hundred dollars to 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:24.400 play with on his own. Um. He he really couldn't 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.560 find anything out there in the wild that was going 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.440 to be anything like that, so he decided to to 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.079 kind of start putting something like that together for himself, 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:35.679 and and it really captured the public's imagination. This this 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.320 stuff isn't out yet, but they've raised some like sixteen 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.640 million in private funding and all kinds of crazy stuff 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:44.600 because up until now, up to and including now, real 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.920 virtual reality systems are kind of these weird like like 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.760 glattos looking things, I mean, like like it's it's tethered 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.240 to a huge computer. It's usually a headset that's so 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.280 heavy and bulky that your your neck wood snap if 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.240 you tried to wear it and turn your head around. 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:03.199 So so it's it's on a suspension. Yeah, it's it's 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:06.600 really not It's really not cool or pretty or portable 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.160 or or inexpensive in any way. Um. You know though, 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.120 though these things do exist, like you know, I want 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.840 to I want to specify that that that's absolutely a 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:21.520 real thing. Um. But you know, why would why would 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.520 we want this for video gaming? Why would we want 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.960 to take this out of the laboratory, um and and 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.720 out of the kind of glado setting and and turn 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.040 it into a video game. Well I've got a theory 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.640 about that actually. Yeah. Um, so, I don't know if 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.640 you've read about the ideas of connecting video games with 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:42.560 the concept in positive psychology of flow. Have you heard 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.680 of this? Uh? Not really explained to me. Okay, So 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.080 flow is a really interesting concept and it comes from 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:53.040 this uh psychologist named and I hope I'm doing this 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:57.760 right me Hi chick sent me hi. Um it sounds 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:01.800 sounds good to me. Yeah, he ain't from around here. 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:06.280 Apologies if that's incorrect. Yeah, but he uh, so he 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:10.520 comes up with this idea that is, hey, there seems 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:15.280 to be this really really pleasurable state that people can 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:17.840 get themselves into. And you can sort of imagine it 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:21.680 if you imagine like an X Y graph. So you 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.280 look at it and you imagine the X axis is, 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:31.800 um a person's level of skill, Okay, okay, and then 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.440 you look at the Y axis and that is the 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.640 challenge of a task. Okay. This is actually a problem 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.120 that I have frequently when I play video games, because 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:43.760 I am I kind of want to get to the 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.280 next story point, but sometimes I get very frustrated with 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.880 the technical ability that it's it's making me perform in 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.960 button combinations and whatever. Yeah, well, in that case, that 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:57.040 game might not be optimized for flow for or at 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:58.760 least you might not be playing it at the right 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.600 difficulty or something like that. But um so there are 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.440 different regions of this graph, right if you can imagine 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:08.240 different tasks, Like if you're down here at the bottom 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.520 on both that that just seems like a really boring area, 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.800 like nothing's difficult and you're not good at anything, you know. 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:20.600 Um And meanwhile, if you if you go over, say 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:24.200 like you're doing something that is not very challenging, but 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.360 you're really good at it. Well, that can be easy, 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:29.200 but it's not super engaging, right, You're not really you're 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:32.680 you're not teasing your brain, you're not learning and growing. So, uh, 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:34.760 if you go say like really high on the Y 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.360 axis but not far on the X axis, that's like 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:41.160 a state of of of problems of nervousness and anxiety. 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:43.960 You're not adequate and you can't do what you need 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:46.640 to do. Um. So that's a really uncomfortable place to 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:50.560 be in. But imagine you're you're up at performing very 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:54.560 high on on both axis. You're doing something that is 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:57.760 at the peak of challenge and your peak of skill, 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.400 and so you're rocking out something that's really hard. Yeah, 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:04.000 a lot of people have phrased this is like getting 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.320 in the zone, you know, or or being on a role. 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.000 It's when you're fully engaged in a task that is 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:15.360 consuming all of your mind. You're putting yourself fully into it, 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:21.199 you're getting immediate feedback, and you're doing it well. Yeah. 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:23.800 And so a lot of people talk about flow in 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.359 other contexts, like say artistic work. Like if you're a 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.439 writer and you suddenly you get a burst of energy 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.760 and you're just writing and you're going you know, or 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:36.479 if you're a painter or a musician, I imagine like 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.440 if you're say a jazz guitar player and you're you're 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:43.360 improvising and you're having a you know, a great session 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:46.399 with some some other players. Um, you can be in 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.080 that zone where what you're doing is at the peak 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:51.399 of your skill and you're doing it very well and 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:55.320 you're fully immersed in it. But apparently your reason people 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.240 play video games is that video games are very good 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.760 at encouraging a state of flow where there's a task, 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:06.960 where the goals are clear. Um, it fully engages your attention, 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.919 it takes it's somewhat difficult, so it takes skill to 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:17.800 do it, and it's something that you can do yeah, yeah, 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:19.760 and so and it and it provides sort of like 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.920 a rhythm of rewards and feedback on your performance. It's 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:28.359 a steady incremental accomplishment. This is what makes video games 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.560 really fun. In my opinion, And I'm obviously I'm this 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.119 idea doesn't come from me. Other people suggested it, but 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.159 but I think I agree with it. Oh absolutely, I 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:37.800 think that's that's why they can get you know, pretty 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.640 pretty addicting sometimes, right. But so there are a couple 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:44.359 of problems with video games that that can interrupt this 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:49.640 experience of flow. One of them is um distraction. Okay, 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.520 so you know, if you're if you're playing on a 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.480 TV screen across the room, other things in the room 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.600 can get your attention enough if the dog walks in 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.040 front of the screen, or if um if if screen 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.040 quality is poor, and or if you're getting a reflection 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.919 of from it from a light behind, or just the 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.520 simple sort of ambient awareness that you're using a TV 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:13.479 across the room, you know what I mean, sure that 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.640 that you're not really in the terrible town of Silent Hill, 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.080 and that that well, I mean, in that case, actually 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:21.600 that would that's pretty pretty much good for me. I'm 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.680 fine with having that level of awareness. Yeah. And the 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.360 other thing is that you're aware of your tools, and 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.159 so you're aware that you're holding a controller at least 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:35.679 in some ambient sense. You're low level awareness of this. 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.560 You're manipulating buttons to do what you need to do, 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:42.560 but you're not moving that you're that you're manipulating something. Yeah, 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.080 it's not as it's not as natural as maybe say 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.679 like playing a sport where you're just using your body 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:51.760 in kind of like full immersed involvement in the task, 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.679 which for for most people in most situations is is 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:59.400 a very extremely fluid, very quick moving um electrical nervous 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:04.080 reaction that is about as good as we get at stuff. Yeah, 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:06.359 but wouldn't it be great if you could create some 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.679 kind of video game system that is a total limitation 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:14.120 on distractions so you have full sensory immersion in it 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:18.200 to take that distraction element out, and it engages your 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.840 body as directly as possible so that you're not aware 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:26.159 of the tools you're using to participate in this world. Okay, 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:27.920 when you put it that way, sign me up for 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:30.760 like lawn mower man stuff that sounds that sounds great, 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.320 exactly so, And I think that's sort of one of 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:37.160 the promises of virtual reality is that in some ways 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.080 it can help you lock into this state of even 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:44.560 deeper because of of those things that it limits your 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:48.880 awareness of the tools. If it's good, that's the big qualification. 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.679 Now I'd imagine that bad VR is actually even worse 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.280 than a normal video game because you're hyper aware of 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:59.720 the tools because they're making you nauseous. Excuse me, nause 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:02.240 ad nauseated? Yes, well, I mean they might make you 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:05.200 nauseous as well. If I don't know, somebody's watching you 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:07.679 smell really bad or something. I'm not sure. I'm not 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:09.680 sure how that would work out. But but do you 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.320 see what I'm saying there? Like, the virtual reality has 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:16.680 to be extremely good I think before these benefits start 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:19.560 to become manifest right. So okay, so so what are 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.480 we talking about when we're talking about VR VR equipment 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:26.960 being really good? Uh? I want to offer up one 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:28.840 thing that I think is one of the most important, 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:33.280 which is the low latency effect. So latency is it 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:35.720 shows up when so you imagine you're wearing a VR 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:38.840 headset and it is displaying to your eyes what you're 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.240 supposed to be looking at. And ideally what it should 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:43.920 do is track your head so that when you turn 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:46.680 your head, it's just as if you were turning your 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.360 head in real life. Right, it renders out the image 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:51.280 that's that's over to your right or over to your 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.560 left or above or whatever, so that as you move 0:21:55.440 --> 0:22:00.240 hypothetically instantaneously or near instantaneously. But um, yeah, but the 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:03.800 problem is that this this is like massively process or 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:07.200 intensive right to track you like this, and that if 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:10.479 you move quickly, I mean just you're you're creating a 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:12.960 problem there that if you move your head too fast, 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:16.080