Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Bombshell tonight and the investigation
Speaker 1: of the death of a young man, Nolan Wells' death
Speaker 1: threats are flying. One actually says there's gonna be blood,
Speaker 1: so much blood. Another death threat says don't go outside.
Speaker 1: How can anybody do their jobs when they're getting death threats.
Speaker 1: Not only that, we understand this case is headed to
Speaker 1: eight grand jury. We also learned tonight that the state's
Speaker 1: autopsy is complete, but is being kept secret. Isn't an
Speaker 1: autopsy a public document? Why is it being kept hidden
Speaker 1: from us the public? What is in that autopsy? The
Speaker 1: first autopsy of Nolan Wells. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you being
Speaker 1: with us.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: The young lady Katie that he was hanging out with,
Speaker 3: I saw a text message from her alluding to the
Speaker 3: fact that she never saw him get on that boat
Speaker 3: at all. They could have been saying don't die or
Speaker 3: is it dead referring to the bill as pump. Somebody
Speaker 3: would have seen something if there was a dramatic commotion
Speaker 3: like this occurring on that boat.
Speaker 1: I hope no one wills died by accident. I'm not
Speaker 1: shutting down our crime stories investigation until I know.
Speaker 4: O god, hey, we're the West tip of born at
Speaker 4: our Billage soft work and we're going, we're thinking, can
Speaker 4: you all please? Can we have I've never should jo,
Speaker 4: what'd you say?
Speaker 1: You know? If that sound is real? There's no getting
Speaker 1: away from that and all this business about there's no connection. Well,
Speaker 1: I listened to a good forty seconds of Ctoe Sea
Speaker 1: second Word tow on Hold, listen to their music. There
Speaker 1: is plenty good connection. But before I can even get
Speaker 1: to the death threats of blood, so much blood, blood everywhere,
Speaker 1: and don't step outside, and more, before I can even
Speaker 1: get to the grand jury, before I can get to
Speaker 1: the autopsy that's being kept hidden from us. I want
Speaker 1: you to meet someone very important critical to this investigation.
Speaker 1: Her name, Janetta Brantley, MSS Brantley is the audio engineer
Speaker 1: who enhanced the nine one one call, the STO call
Speaker 1: in the Nolan Wells case. So everybody claiming some ding
Speaker 1: dong on YouTube did it, or somebody on Insta TikTok
Speaker 1: did it, No, she did it. I've spoken to her,
Speaker 1: I've read her statement. I want you to judge her credibility.
Speaker 1: Credibility is normally the sole province of a jury, and
Speaker 1: tonight you serve in that function, Miss Brantley. I'm sure
Speaker 1: that you're getting all sorts of abuse, threats and so forth.
Speaker 1: It's a cacophony that seemingly won't cease. That said, thank
Speaker 1: you for being with us tonight. Explain to me where
Speaker 1: you got the audio, how you got the audio, and
Speaker 1: what if anything you did to enhance the audio.
Speaker 5: First and foremost, I basically downloaded it off of YouTube
Speaker 5: from WLOX News's YouTube site. And when I downloaded it,
Speaker 5: I ripped it off of YouTube. That's the terminology that
Speaker 5: we use when we take something off of YouTube. But
Speaker 5: when I ripped it off of YouTube and I pulled
Speaker 5: it in.
Speaker 1: Pause place, objection, Miss Brandley, Isn't it true? Said the
Speaker 1: audio you got was taken directly by XLO from m
Speaker 1: d m R. Correct, the Mississippi Department of Marine Resources.
Speaker 1: Isn't that true?
Speaker 6: Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay, please continue, miss Brandley.
Speaker 5: So when I downloaded it from YouTube, I pulled it
Speaker 5: into my dog, which is logic pro x that's my
Speaker 5: dog choice.
Speaker 7: And when I first listened to.
Speaker 5: It, I realized that it was like a dual mono recording,
Speaker 5: which most.
Speaker 7: What is it, like most.
Speaker 5: Phone services or operators used utilize when they're recording conversations,
Speaker 5: And so it was already split between the caller, the
Speaker 5: dispatch and the callers in the in the background. And
Speaker 5: so that's what made it easy for me to isolate
Speaker 5: it without having to do much to it. So that isolation,
Speaker 5: when I separated the left channel from the right channel,
Speaker 5: that just made me be able to really focus on
Speaker 5: everything that.
Speaker 7: Was on the call. And what I was hearing was like.
Speaker 5: Like I couldn't I honestly could not believe what I
Speaker 5: was hearing.
Speaker 1: Mischianetta Branley. Isn't it true? This is the same audio
Speaker 1: that was released by the Mississippi Department of Marine Resources.
Speaker 7: Yes, that is absolutely correct.
Speaker 1: Let's listen to it one more time. Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Hey, we're at the west tip of Born and uh,
Speaker 4: our village stops work and we're going we're thinking, can
Speaker 4: you all please come? We have a membership?
Speaker 1: Doesn't stop?
Speaker 7: What did you say?
Speaker 4: It's coming up? It's it's we're just thinking.
Speaker 1: I don't know, like we're going down there, I don't know.
Speaker 8: The phone number.
Speaker 6: It's it's either I think it's try that.
Speaker 4: I know we have a membership, like guaranteed, I don't
Speaker 4: have the tag on here.
Speaker 6: You got ripped off?
Speaker 9: What I.
Speaker 6: No, we do not any of that.
Speaker 4: Long drop got to jump in and pull the plug
Speaker 4: while you're going, they gotta here.
Speaker 7: Got hello?
Speaker 4: Okay, what's going on?
Speaker 1: What's up?
Speaker 4: We're at the west tip of Born and uh are
Speaker 4: dose st working.
Speaker 6: We're going, We're thinking, can you all please? Can we
Speaker 6: have a membership?
Speaker 7: A Hey, we're at the west tip of.
Speaker 9: Born and uh our dog sat working.
Speaker 7: We're going, We're thinking, can you'll please can we have.
Speaker 6: I ever should.
Speaker 1: Back to Janetta Brantley joining us tonight, and she shows
Speaker 1: herself in that video showing what she is doing. What
Speaker 1: does adding eq mean? Miss Brandley?
Speaker 5: Adding eq is basically selecting a certain frequency of the
Speaker 5: actual sound and either deleting or removing a certain noise
Speaker 5: something that's problematic to the ear, deleting that or boosting that.
Speaker 7: That's literally all equing is.
Speaker 1: What was your process, Janetta? Because I was sitting researching.
Speaker 1: It was early, early, early in the morning, like five
Speaker 1: point forty five am several days ago, and I was
Speaker 1: researching the Nolan Whales case. And I saw the transcript
Speaker 1: as it was being played, and my husband was also up.
Speaker 1: He said, what's wrong. I'm like, if this is real,
Speaker 1: this changes everything. It changes everything, because up until that point,
Speaker 1: it seemed as if no one's death could very well
Speaker 1: have been an accident. If this is real, it changes everything.
Speaker 1: It's seismic. What was your reaction when you heard these words,
Speaker 1: Janetta Brantley.
Speaker 7: I think at my core, I was in disbelief.
Speaker 5: I wasn't cleaning it or enhancing it to specifically look
Speaker 5: for or identify a crime, or even point the fingers
Speaker 5: at anybody.
Speaker 7: I believe I wanted it to be an accident. I
Speaker 7: think a lot of us wanted it to be an accident.
Speaker 5: So when I heard those things, When I heard damn
Speaker 5: it Bart, that name stood out to me because I.
Speaker 7: Hadn't even heard that name before.
Speaker 5: As I was listening to certain things that stood out
Speaker 5: to me, I was at I was in disbelief because again,
Speaker 5: I'm just an audio engineer. I'm not an investigator, detective,
Speaker 5: or anything like that. So when I heard a name
Speaker 5: that I wasn't familiar with, it stood out to me,
Speaker 5: and that alone made me want to hear what was
Speaker 5: immediately said after dammit Bart. And so that's why in
Speaker 5: that process where damit Bart came in loud and clear
Speaker 5: to me, I decided to go over to the next
Speaker 5: part to hear what the rest of that statement was,
Speaker 5: which is where you saw me actually create a loop over.
Speaker 7: That part, split that part and.
Speaker 5: Then add a gain, which the gain is boosting the
Speaker 5: volume overall. And that's pretty much what you saw me
Speaker 5: do in that actual video. And so to hear you know,
Speaker 5: damnit Bart, Nolan's really dead now that I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 7: I could not believe it.
Speaker 1: My reaction to Janetta because when I first heard it,
Speaker 1: I thought, this, this has got to be a doctor.
Speaker 1: This can't be real crime stories with Nancy Grace straight
Speaker 1: out to a veteran trial lawyer, Franz Borcoart, a veteran
Speaker 1: trial lawyer joining us out of the Baton Rouge jurisdiction
Speaker 1: at Borghart's law firm. Franz, take off your defense hat
Speaker 1: just one moment. I have introduced wire taps many times
Speaker 1: at trials, which very hard to get, by the way,
Speaker 1: and I've never had one that I believed was doctored
Speaker 1: at the time because they were taken by law enforcement.
Speaker 1: This is from a completely independent source with no dog
Speaker 1: in the fight, no skin in the game. It's from
Speaker 1: dispatch at Seto, And if this is real, this blows
Speaker 1: the case wide up. Now you saw Janetta Brantley, You've
Speaker 1: heard her. I have no reason to disbelieve anything she's saying.
Speaker 9: So if I'm prosecuting this, I need I'm worried that
Speaker 9: I need a witness in twenty twenty six to exclude
Speaker 9: the possibility that it's either AI generated or doctor just
Speaker 9: like you suggested. And I think that she's very credible,
Speaker 9: but I think we need to go one step further.
Speaker 9: The other concern I have, Nancy, is if the independent
Speaker 9: autopsy is showing inconclusive death results, now I really want
Speaker 9: to see the other autopsy to see is there trauma
Speaker 9: to the body? Is there something that happened. These are
Speaker 9: the concerns I would have as a prosecutor. But we've
Speaker 9: now opened the doors to these guys may in fact
Speaker 9: have committed obstruction of justice.
Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, you're put in the cart before
Speaker 1: the horse. Before we talk about obstructions such as allegedly
Speaker 1: lying or covering something up, you've already mentioned two distinct
Speaker 1: lines of inquiry one is that the audio that Janetta
Speaker 1: Brantley enhanced innocently I believe had been already AI or doctored. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's follow that through to its logical conclusion. You just
Speaker 1: throw that out there like a stink bomb at the circle.
Speaker 1: You know what a circle meeting is? Right in the
Speaker 1: United Methodist Church, all the ladies have circle meetings. Okay.
Speaker 1: To suggest this was doctored before Janetta got it means
Speaker 1: it had to have been doctored or AI created by who,
Speaker 1: the Mississippi Department of Marine Resources. No, no, no, don't
Speaker 1: just go h. That doesn't work in court workards. You
Speaker 1: can't just throw oh, that's like the Sade defense. Some
Speaker 1: other dude did it. What dude, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: So you're saying AI doctored by who? If it's not Janetta,
Speaker 1: then who? She got it the same sound that was
Speaker 1: released by the Mississippi Department of Marine Resources. What you
Speaker 1: think they doctored it?
Speaker 9: There is nothing normal about this case.
Speaker 1: And if if that's the same, I asked you, I'm
Speaker 1: asking you to explain your premise, and you're not doing it.
Speaker 9: I said, if I were a prosecutor, I would want
Speaker 9: to be able to establish with expert testimony that what
Speaker 9: we are listening to is real. And I would want
Speaker 9: a witness because I'm telling you, with this case, with
Speaker 9: as viral as it's been, I'm not disagreeing that it's real.
Speaker 9: I'm saying I would want to be able to bolster
Speaker 9: that very credible woman's testimony. And she is very credible.
Speaker 9: I have no doubt that what we're listening to and
Speaker 9: what she did is credible. The issue is, I don't know.
Speaker 1: If she can go there, they come from the sky,
Speaker 1: got it, got it, got it, got it. She cannot
Speaker 1: testify as to whether MDMR had enhanced it or doctored
Speaker 1: it before it was released. But see the problem is
Speaker 1: you would have to ask someone to believe a clerk
Speaker 1: or an official at the Mississippi Department Marine Resources doctor
Speaker 1: this before they released it to the extent that nobody
Speaker 1: could understand it until they enhanced it. That's the hell
Speaker 1: of a doctor job. Okay, so you did that, then
Speaker 1: you got into the medical examiner findings. Okay, what was
Speaker 1: your theory on that?
Speaker 9: Very quickly, very quickly. If he's dead on the boat,
Speaker 9: how did he die? It should be conclusive.
Speaker 1: It should be joining us right now. Joseph Scott Morgan,
Speaker 1: renowned death investigator, professor forensics Jacksonville State University with a
Speaker 1: premier criminal pro department and building. Author of Blood Beneath
Speaker 1: My Feet, star of a hit series Body Bags with
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, and it goes on significant over ten
Speaker 1: thousand death scenes under his belt. Joe Scott follow up,
Speaker 1: I'm not arguing in borgharts. Let's learn if we can
Speaker 1: from what he's saying. Jump.
Speaker 8: Yeah, So whatever has been the causal factors here has
Speaker 8: got to marry up with what they were seeing at
Speaker 8: the scene, and perhaps the audio does fall into this,
Speaker 8: you know, these statements, and I think that probably from
Speaker 8: a medical legal perspective, that is, the corner and the
Speaker 8: medical examiner are going to want to be able to
Speaker 8: fully appreciate what is being said here. From a timeline
Speaker 8: this is absence the police's investigation. They're going to try
Speaker 8: to rule in or rule out what they're seeing presenting
Speaker 8: on Nolan's remains when they finally did receive them at
Speaker 8: the State Medical Examiner's office and that examination began, and
Speaker 8: this is going to be critical and key, you know,
Speaker 8: because the causal effects here are going to be critical.
Speaker 8: You know, we go back to these changes that the
Speaker 8: second autopes you referred to on the back of the head. Now,
Speaker 8: the doctor was not able to at that point in time.
Speaker 8: Even though he did do a thorough what's referred to
Speaker 8: as a layered dissection here, he could not establish the
Speaker 8: causal effects here because the injury or the insult that
Speaker 8: you see there, this presentation is compromised by decomposition. So
Speaker 8: what did the state medical examiner see? My problem is here, Nancy,
Speaker 8: how was the body treated before or after the first autopsy?
Speaker 8: And the body is transported up to d C. I
Speaker 8: have questions about this because they're talking about to the
Speaker 8: degree with which the body was decomposed. The doctor up
Speaker 8: in d C is seeing significant decomposition. We don't know
Speaker 8: what they saw in Mississippi, but I do know that
Speaker 8: you're only talking about out what I'm ballparking here. Please
Speaker 8: give me some grace. Maybe forty eight hours tops before
Speaker 8: the medical legal authorities have seen the body. So how
Speaker 8: far degraded is the body to compromising this? And this
Speaker 8: evidence is going to have to be borne out, not
Speaker 8: just not just with the physical findings that you see
Speaker 8: with the unaided eye, but also whatever's going on, tox
Speaker 8: collogial I want.
Speaker 1: You to take a careful look at this video we
Speaker 1: have obtained. Let's see it. Look how tightly everyone is
Speaker 1: packed in. There were hundreds of people out on Horn
Speaker 1: Island on July the fourth. What nobody saw? What happened
Speaker 1: to Nolan Wells? They all just left with him standing
Speaker 1: there stranded, waving his arms like Gilligan that that did
Speaker 1: not happen. Now that you're seeing this, what is an
Speaker 1: innocent explanation? I'm trying to figure that out. Joining me
Speaker 1: and I'll circle back to you, Joe Scott, because I've
Speaker 1: got a lot of questions regarding the way he could
Speaker 1: have died innocently and been left behind, and that sound
Speaker 1: being true, the sound that Janetta Brantley enhanced. Is there
Speaker 1: any innocent explanation? Is there a way? As my favorite
Speaker 1: judge often said, Luther Alberson, it is your duty to
Speaker 1: make all witnesses speak the truth, and if pen perjury
Speaker 1: to no one, is there a way that can be done?
Speaker 1: I don't know that it can. It seems to me
Speaker 1: that someone is lying. But who joining me now? Teslin Figaro,
Speaker 1: social justice political commentator, host of The Teslin figure O podcast,
Speaker 1: miss Udo, thank you for being with us. I'd like
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's what the family is saying. They don't
Speaker 2: believe he died by accident. That's the point. That's the
Speaker 2: reason why Nolan Wells mom is saying, I don't believe this.
Speaker 7: I don't believe he died by accident.
Speaker 2: Before we had the audio, the audio simply confirms that
Speaker 2: there are additional questions that needs to be asked. It
Speaker 2: wasn't just one thing they said in the audio. They
Speaker 2: said Nolan repeatedly. In the audio, they said, check his chest.
Speaker 2: In the audio, they said.
Speaker 7: Is he dead? In the audio?
Speaker 2: And also notice this, Nancy, did you notice that the
Speaker 2: operator also said, is anybody breathing?
Speaker 7: Who says that? What operator says? Who all is breathing
Speaker 7: on the boat? So is this all the audio? Nancy?
Speaker 7: Is there more audio? That's my question.
Speaker 1: I want to look, specifically, Tazlin at what was said.
Speaker 1: At one point, we hear we think you killed him.
Speaker 1: He's already dead. Already dead? Is he dead? Yeah?
Speaker 10: No?
Speaker 1: One, OMG, wake up. And as Janetta stated, then she
Speaker 1: hears a completely different name Bart. Now we also hear
Speaker 1: and I'm very curious the phrase no no Tuslin figure o.
Speaker 1: Was that a nickname of Nolan Wells.
Speaker 2: I could not confirm if that's a nickname of his
Speaker 2: or not. But what I do know is we heard Nolan.
Speaker 2: What I do know is we heard check his chest.
Speaker 2: What I do know is that we said, is he dead?
Speaker 2: What we do know is we heard screams. There's folks
Speaker 2: at there suggested that perhaps they were talking to a
Speaker 2: seagull or perhaps talking to somewhat random bird that was
Speaker 2: flying around this called no No. There were folks out
Speaker 2: there to suggesting, well, maybe they were talking about the
Speaker 2: boat cad.
Speaker 7: We got to knock this off, Nancy.
Speaker 2: We heard what we heard, and so we would have
Speaker 2: put this before jury.
Speaker 1: Also, we hear damn it bart bart No knows really dead,
Speaker 1: damn damn it bart No knows really dead, repeating it
Speaker 1: over and over and over. According to reports, his nickname
Speaker 1: one of them is no No. Back to Telan Pherau,
Speaker 1: what is no One's mother's theory about what happened in
Speaker 1: light of these tapes?
Speaker 2: Before we even have the tapes, her theory is I
Speaker 2: told my son, I've raised my son just like I've
Speaker 2: raised my nineteen year old the same way Nancy, like,
Speaker 2: I'm sure you raise your children, come back with the.
Speaker 7: People you went with.
Speaker 2: Her theory has always been that he is a fantastic swimmer,
Speaker 2: that he is an athlete. Her theory has always been
Speaker 2: that he did not drown. Her theory has always been
Speaker 2: that there's something wrong with this picture. Her theory has
Speaker 2: always been that the fact that you know he's left
Speaker 2: his phone and left and left his keys.
Speaker 7: Her theory has also always.
Speaker 2: Been that he did not just go off with some
Speaker 2: random stranger and say, guys, don't worry about it, just
Speaker 2: leave me on an island. Her theory is the same
Speaker 2: thing before this audio. This audio only confirms with this
Speaker 2: mother already knew.
Speaker 1: Joining me now. Susan Hendrix, investigative journalist, author of Down
Speaker 1: the Hill, My Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi,
Speaker 1: who has been on this case from the beginning. Susan Hendrix,
Speaker 1: we all know that everyone in our country is innocent
Speaker 1: until proven guilty, and regardless of how you or I
Speaker 1: or anybody else feels. That includes the young men on
Speaker 1: the boat with Nolan Wells. We have a lot of
Speaker 1: questions that have to be answered. Is this sound real?
Speaker 1: Has it been enhanced. Who enhanced it? Was it AI
Speaker 1: or doctored before Janetta Brantley pumped it up so we
Speaker 1: can hear it. I want you to hear another version.
Speaker 7: You can see that.
Speaker 11: I have the c toe channel completely muted, so we're
Speaker 11: only listening to the callers. Then I go through and
Speaker 11: simply raise the volume of all of the chatter we
Speaker 11: hear at the beginning of the call.
Speaker 4: Hey, we're the west tip of Born. Our billage stops working.
Speaker 4: We're going We're thinking, can you all please? Can we
Speaker 4: have I've never should.
Speaker 1: Joy Susan. That was enhanced by my producer Sydney. I
Speaker 1: know her like that. I I asked her enhance it
Speaker 1: the best you can. She again has no interest in
Speaker 1: the outcome of this case. She pulls up quote want
Speaker 1: me to cover him up? I mean, Susan.
Speaker 12: Way in, I was listening to the enhanced version, both
Speaker 12: of them now not doctor by the way, there's a
Speaker 12: big difference there. Have you ever heard Nancy on Instagram
Speaker 12: where you listen to two things and your mind goes
Speaker 12: to what you're thinking of, like green car or moonboat?
Speaker 12: What are we really hearing? I believe that something nefarious
Speaker 12: did happen where I think the answers will be again,
Speaker 12: this is my opinion, but I believe something happened there,
Speaker 12: and we're not hearing the full story. And you pointing
Speaker 12: out Nancy how prouded that area was. So let's say
Speaker 12: what people are claiming that it was an accidental growning.
Speaker 1: No one saw.
Speaker 11: Look here at the crowd.
Speaker 12: Nobody saw what happened, and all of us have our
Speaker 12: phones on us all the time.
Speaker 1: No one recorded this.
Speaker 12: I think the answers are in the timeline and also
Speaker 12: the autopsy when we will hear answers there.
Speaker 1: You're seeing video from the Officer Tatum show and I
Speaker 1: don't know what they were trying to show with it,
Speaker 1: but how can someone be dead and floating in the
Speaker 1: water and nobody notice? Which leads me too, Susan Hendrix.
Speaker 1: The fact that we have learned tonight that the States
Speaker 1: autopsy is complete, but it's being kept secret.
Speaker 12: Yeah, absolutely, being held for the grand jury to look
Speaker 12: into that. And the fact that you brought up Nancy
Speaker 12: earlier that part of.
Speaker 1: His rote was missing. Will that be key?
Speaker 12: There's so many questions around us, but right it's a
Speaker 12: public record, but we're not hearing about it. I guess
Speaker 12: they're waiting for the grand jury to show them that first.
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan death investigator. I've never known an autopsy
Speaker 1: report not to be a public record unless they're claiming
Speaker 1: ongoing investigation. Now, in the D four VD David Anthony
Speaker 1: Burke case, the LAPD demanded the Medical Examiner keep it
Speaker 1: secret because the Medical Examiner's office allegedly was leaking information,
Speaker 1: possibly for money. Don't know that yet, but I will.
Speaker 1: How common is that that the medical examiners ordered not
Speaker 1: to release the autopsy? Why is the autopsy being kept secret.
Speaker 8: Because it's continued investigation. They're going to go to grand
Speaker 8: jury with this. I can tell you that. I'll bet
Speaker 8: you dollars to donuts if that's the case. We see
Speaker 8: it with We saw it with Hoefor right. We didn't
Speaker 8: have it there. We don't have it with Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 8: You know that's an ongoing event. This is being investigated,
Speaker 8: and you know the point of contact. Here is an
Speaker 8: interesting situation here because you have the State Medical Examiner,
Speaker 8: but you also have a county corner. The State Medical
Speaker 8: Examiner provides a service to the county corner. The corner
Speaker 8: is an elected official, He does not do these autopsies,
Speaker 8: and so the coroner is going to be the gatekeeper
Speaker 8: relative to any kind of document. But with that said,
Speaker 8: under state, I think under state to statute, the DA,
Speaker 8: the prosecutor, they can say, look, you're going to hold
Speaker 8: off on releasing this report. So it's being held at
Speaker 8: this point in time. Now the reports that we're hearing
Speaker 8: are saying that it is complete. Now what does that mean. Well,
Speaker 8: if you have a complete autopsy report, that means safety talks.
Speaker 8: They've probably got histology which is going to be the
Speaker 8: tissue studies, and they actually have the anatomical autopsy report
Speaker 8: that has been completed. That's what I think it was
Speaker 8: ABC that was reporting that. I can't validate that, but
Speaker 8: that's what is being leaked out at this point in time,
Speaker 8: so they have their support. I think the question is,
Speaker 8: and this goes back to you, my friend, is that
Speaker 8: if this is going to be a grand jury thing,
Speaker 8: when is it going and when is the medical exander
Speaker 8: going to be called and summoned to speak to this.
Speaker 8: That's what everybody's going to be hanging on in my opinion.
Speaker 1: Oh no, on j just Scott, you mentioned the Talks
Speaker 1: report that's a blood panel done. Was he drinking, was
Speaker 1: he using drugs? A lot has been married, had been
Speaker 1: given someone witnesses stating no one was drunk. Okay, does
Speaker 1: that really change anything? Does that change anything? Unless he
Speaker 1: died of acute alcohol poisoning, because I guarantee you ain't
Speaker 1: anybody on that boat that's afraid of a cocktail. Okay.
Speaker 1: So if he was drinking, what difference does does that make?
Speaker 1: And whether he was killed or whether he died of
Speaker 1: an accident.
Speaker 8: Joe Scott, Well, listen, Nancy. I know you're a teetotaler,
Speaker 8: but let me tell you something. The drunker you get,
Speaker 8: the more alcohol you take on board, it lessens your
Speaker 8: ability to defend yourself. It lessens your ability to make
Speaker 8: good decisions. And so we see just played out all
Speaker 8: the time in the medical legal world, and that's going
Speaker 8: to be the measure here, I think relative to the toks.
Speaker 8: Everybody wants to see the toxicology because that's going to
Speaker 8: give us an idea of chemically, what is in this
Speaker 8: young man's system. Was he able to do for himself
Speaker 8: at that point in time, And that's another problem that arises.
Speaker 1: It's a double edged sword. Joe Scott. You can argue, rightly,
Speaker 1: he was drunk and could not defend himself against an attack.
Speaker 1: You could also argue he was drunk and hit his
Speaker 1: head and then they go, oh, my stars, he's dead.
Speaker 1: But wouldn't that have shown up in the auto if
Speaker 1: he did, if he died by a blow to the head,
Speaker 1: be it accidental or nefarious, wouldn't that have shown up?
Speaker 8: Yeah, And keep in mind the second physician that did
Speaker 8: the autopsy, who by the way, is highly respected, the
Speaker 8: former chief medical examiner for DC that was retained by
Speaker 8: the family. He didn't see any evidence of fractures.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 8: Now, that doesn't mean that there wasn't a concussive event.
Speaker 8: I'm talking about being hitting ahead, and you can have
Speaker 8: stuff that's contained within the cranial vault that might not
Speaker 8: be presenting. But again back to what I said earlier,
Speaker 8: I find it very interesting that this doctor is commenting
Speaker 8: on the state of the decomposition when he sees the body.
Speaker 8: And that's problematic. It's very problematic. When you're trying to
Speaker 8: make an assessment. You're already absent. You're already absent the
Speaker 8: organs of the neck, you're absent, intact lungs, and you
Speaker 8: know because the specter of drowning is on the tape.
Speaker 8: So if you want to make a thorough scientific assessment,
Speaker 8: he's kind of handcuffed at me at this point. And
Speaker 8: again going back to this idea, how long did it
Speaker 8: take them to get his body to DC and why
Speaker 8: was it in such a state of decomposition when it arrived?
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Franz Borghart joining US veteran
Speaker 1: trial lawyer out of the Baton Rouge jurisdiction, speaking of
Speaker 1: talks toxicology results. Number one, they don't take that long
Speaker 1: unless you want them to. Number two, there is doubt
Speaker 1: if he died by accident having consumed a lot of alcohol,
Speaker 1: was their cover up or did he die from a
Speaker 1: nefarious act? So the alcohol intake could cut either way. Franz,
Speaker 1: I think you're spot on.
Speaker 9: I think that the reasonable doubt if someone gets arrested
Speaker 9: and accused of this crime is going to be if
Speaker 9: the toxicology shows a high BAC in the absence of
Speaker 9: anything else. What you yourself said, could it have been foul
Speaker 9: play where he couldn't defend himself, or foul play insomuch
Speaker 9: as he got injured because he was quote unquote drunk.
Speaker 9: That that remains to be seen. But I don't discount the.
Speaker 1: Fact that you're saying foul play. But it could have
Speaker 1: been something as simple as horsing around on the boat
Speaker 1: and him hitting his head. It could be somebody whacking
Speaker 1: him in the head. It could be finding him in
Speaker 1: the water face down. And this mark on the back
Speaker 1: of his head is some type of fluid dispersement, which
Speaker 1: I don't believe because it was nowhere else on the
Speaker 1: body except right there. And if your blood is going
Speaker 1: to sink to the lowest level upon death, it would
Speaker 1: be all over the body. But we're not seeing that.
Speaker 1: So why is the just the occipital have the deep
Speaker 1: red markings? So many many questions, and let me stress
Speaker 1: before you bother sending me another death threat. We don't
Speaker 1: know the answers. These boys, these young men on that boat,
Speaker 1: could be completely innocent. But when I listen to this sound,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of questions. Back to Tesla and Figaro,
Speaker 1: who is joining us. She's the host of the Teslim
Speaker 1: figurea podcast. She is a social justice and political commentator.
Speaker 1: Have you noticed that people are making a lot of
Speaker 1: the fact that Nolan was quote drunk. A, how do
Speaker 1: they know that? And B does it make a dfence?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Why they absolutely noticed it that he was allegedly there
Speaker 2: saying he was drunk, And it doesn't make a difference.
Speaker 2: And let me ask you this, Nancy. If he was
Speaker 2: drunk with other teenage kids, he certainly wasn't drunk by himself.
Speaker 2: So if he was drunk, why was he the only
Speaker 2: drunk one that.
Speaker 7: Ended up dead? Secondly, if this was an accident, let's
Speaker 7: say he just got.
Speaker 2: So drunk and just passed out, why didn't anybody report it?
Speaker 2: So even if it was an accident, even if he
Speaker 2: got drunk, which I don't believe, by the way, even
Speaker 2: if all those things happened, why did.
Speaker 7: His so called friends not report it.
Speaker 2: That's the part that we're missing. So if where's the
Speaker 2: answer to that, Nancy? He just went and just said
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna be drunk and just go in the
Speaker 2: middle of the ocean and just die with hundreds and
Speaker 2: hundreds of people who are around, who are watching. Nobody
Speaker 2: saw anything happen. His friends didn't see anything happen. And
Speaker 2: again I go back to this tape. I will not
Speaker 2: sit up here and pretend that I did not hear
Speaker 2: what was on bet tape, and I ask again, even
Speaker 2: the operator said, who is breathing on the ball?
Speaker 7: Don't you think that's strange? Fancy who's breathing?
Speaker 1: That's when I first heard that, Tess, and I thought,
Speaker 1: I've never heard a dispatch say who's breathing? What she
Speaker 1: did she hear all that in the background and do nothing?
Speaker 1: Or did you hear it and say something and release it?
Speaker 1: We don't know, man. We got to paper everybody with
Speaker 1: subpoenas to get to the bottom of this. But I
Speaker 1: want to go to George Olivo and everybody on the panel.
Speaker 1: You're experts in your own right. Please tell me if
Speaker 1: you have if you want to jump in, please, I'm
Speaker 1: not clairvoyant. To George Olivo joining us. He's a former
Speaker 1: FBI special agent and polygraph examiner at George Alivo dot com. Okay, George,
Speaker 1: listen to what Officer Tatum told me. Back to Officer Tatum,
Speaker 1: star of the Officer Tatum on YouTube. Have the friends
Speaker 1: taken polygraphs?
Speaker 3: Well, from my understanding, all but I believe one took
Speaker 3: a polygraph, and from what was told to me that
Speaker 3: they all passed and all of the ones that took
Speaker 3: a polygraph took one without a lawyer and so, and
Speaker 3: they cooperated with law enforcement. So from my understanding, everybody.
Speaker 1: Took understand did they tell you they took a poly
Speaker 1: and pass.
Speaker 3: They told the yes, ma'am. They told me that they
Speaker 3: did it. I wasn't there, so that's why I'm saying.
Speaker 3: From my understanding, they told me that all the boys
Speaker 3: except one, which is Warren, I believe, took a polygraph test.
Speaker 3: All of them did not have lawyers and did it
Speaker 3: and cooperated with police. Warren also cooperated police. I just
Speaker 3: believe he didn't take a lot of tech the tests.
Speaker 3: But Warren is the young man that I interviewed. So
Speaker 3: according to what they told me, they all took a
Speaker 3: lot of tech tests and passed. And it's an equivalent
Speaker 3: of a lot of technic tests. It's not a traditional
Speaker 3: a lot of tech tests, but it's the same theology
Speaker 3: of trying to get to if a person is lying.
Speaker 3: I don't know the name of it is. It's the
Speaker 3: equivalent of a lot of technologies of different methodology. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't believe it was a polygraph test. I believe
Speaker 3: they took other stressors in order to analyze it.
Speaker 1: So then the answer to did they take a polygraph
Speaker 1: would be no, he's charming, he's well spoken, but that
Speaker 1: was no. That was a no. They did not take
Speaker 1: a polygraph test, and not all of them took the
Speaker 1: as he is calling it the equivalent, Okay, Georgia Levo
Speaker 1: and my experience as a trial lawyer, there is no
Speaker 1: equivalent for a polygraph. Tell me the various bodily indicators
Speaker 1: a polygraph measures.
Speaker 10: So polygraph does have very specific markers physically, and we're
Speaker 10: looking for physiological changes in baseline or truth signature. So
Speaker 10: we're looking at things like respiration, heart rate, electrodermal activity
Speaker 10: which most people have interpreted swatland activity, or looking at
Speaker 10: peripheral movements to try and determine if someone's trying to
Speaker 10: cheat on the test. So it's quite it's quite extensive.
Speaker 10: And I think what with the officer Tatum was probably
Speaker 10: referring to whether you realized it or not, was the
Speaker 10: voice stress analyzer. Seems that I think you used that
Speaker 10: word one time, some kind of stressor test.
Speaker 8: It's probably that they might have taken.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna have to ask you about what that is,
Speaker 1: but to my layperson, understanding and guys, I'm speaking to
Speaker 1: an expert, former FBI special agent polygrapher, George Olivo, As
Speaker 1: I recall, just off the top of my head, a
Speaker 1: polygraph measures things you really cannot control unless you can
Speaker 1: have studied in practice beating a poly involunteery, physical stress
Speaker 1: response is blood pressure, heart rate rate, whether you're sweating,
Speaker 1: tubes around your chest and abdomen, track your breathing and
Speaker 1: even not just how fast you're breathing, but the depth
Speaker 1: of your breathing. Does your breathing become shallow? Do you
Speaker 1: have to pause and take deep breast to calm yourself down?
Speaker 1: A poly A traditional poly measures cardiovascular activity. There's a
Speaker 1: blood pressure cuff on your arm and it measures your
Speaker 1: pulse and your blood pressure fluctuation. It also measures what's
Speaker 1: called electrodermal activity. What is that? I've had to explain
Speaker 1: it a million times to jurors. Sensors attached to the
Speaker 1: fingers measure your sweat, gland activity, and even your skin
Speaker 1: electrical conductivity. The examiner then asks neutral questions like is
Speaker 1: your name Georgia Levo? Are you from Cincinnati, Ohio? Are
Speaker 1: you from La California. Are you a poligrapher? Were you
Speaker 1: with the FBI? Were you there when Nolan Wells died.
Speaker 1: That's how that would work. You would lay a foundation
Speaker 1: of non disturbing questions, baseline questions. They're called to get
Speaker 1: the person that's being subjected to a poly to get
Speaker 1: their baseline heart rate, their blood pressure, and so forth.
Speaker 1: Then when you hit them with a question regarding the case,
Speaker 1: you see if there's any change in that. Okay, I
Speaker 1: know I'm speaking as a layperson, Georgia Lvo. But those
Speaker 1: are some of the things that polygraph measures.
Speaker 10: And you nailed that. Yeah, that's right, Nancy. And let
Speaker 10: me just add that the correlation between deception and physiology
Speaker 10: is nothing new or it goes back for thousand years
Speaker 10: back in China, when the emperor was questioning one of
Speaker 10: his subjects, he would have a doctor standing by to
Speaker 10: listen to the heart rate to determine if the person
Speaker 10: was telling the truth or not. We've been studying it
Speaker 10: ever since.
Speaker 1: What is the test that Officer Tatum is talking about
Speaker 1: to what is he referring?
Speaker 10: I think and he was kind of cryptid, maybe intentionally
Speaker 10: or unintentionally. Maybe he didn't really know but it sounded
Speaker 10: like he was referring to a voice stress analyzer. Those
Speaker 10: are the machines that detect micro stressors electronically in the voice.
Speaker 10: The research is very weak on that and that type
Speaker 10: of technology. I guess it's better than nothing, But the
Speaker 10: bottom line is, I mean, I'm speaking as a polygraph
Speaker 10: examiner and I'm saying this no diagnostic tool. And you
Speaker 10: know this obviously should should ever be used as a
Speaker 10: final verdict. I mean, it is one just one piece
Speaker 10: of the truth puzzle. But obviously if you had a
Speaker 10: choice between a voice stress analyzing a polygraph that there's
Speaker 10: really no comparison to polygraph is going to be way more.
Speaker 1: Preferable. Well, I mean, even polygraphs are not allowed in
Speaker 1: a criminal trial unless both parties stipulate they will be
Speaker 1: allowed to upfront before the poly's even taken. They are
Speaker 1: allowed in civil trials. And isn't it true, Georgia Levo,
Speaker 1: you're the former FBI like Polugifer. Isn't it true? The
Speaker 1: questions matter? They're critical because if you throw opening questions
Speaker 1: like did you do anything wrong? Or were you what
Speaker 1: happened that day? You can't ask questions like that, you
Speaker 1: really have to ask yes no questions, then they can
Speaker 1: expound upon it. Your questions must be very specific, isn't
Speaker 1: that true?
Speaker 6: One hundred percent?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 10: Test question construction is something that is going to well,
Speaker 10: a lot of things are going to make or break
Speaker 10: a test, but test question construction is key, and something
Speaker 10: is Let's say you know there's a missing child, a
Speaker 10: missing person, and you ask someone of interest, are you
Speaker 10: responsible for their disappearance? Well, that's a terrible question because
Speaker 10: you know they may feel morally responsible if only I
Speaker 10: had been more careful. You know they feel guilty, and
Speaker 10: so you're asking the wrong question there, So you really
Speaker 10: have to get it.
Speaker 1: Or you could have asked that grabs the kid off
Speaker 1: the street, are you responsible for the disappearance? And they
Speaker 1: go no, because in their mind it's the parent's fault
Speaker 1: because the child was out on the street, didn't have
Speaker 1: anything to do with me. I just gave him a
Speaker 1: ride before I killed them. That said, you can't leave
Speaker 1: anything open to interpretation, just like you and I are describing.
Speaker 1: So when I would agree to a polygraph, I never
Speaker 1: stipulated it would come into court ever. But when I
Speaker 1: would agree to a polygraph as an investigative tool, I
Speaker 1: would take part in selecting the questions and creating the questions, because, frankly,
Speaker 1: let's just be honest, George, A voice stress test where
Speaker 1: the prosecutor or the investigator is not in charge charge
Speaker 1: of the questions ain't worth a hill of beans technical
Speaker 1: legal jargon that means nothing to me.
Speaker 6: I'd agree with you there.
Speaker 1: Let me put it more clearly, voice stress tests my
Speaker 1: rear end that ain't coming into court. In fact, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't even pay any attention to it. Now you give
Speaker 1: me a polygraph where I helped fabricate the questions. Maybe
Speaker 1: I want to know who is the polygrapher? Is is
Speaker 1: Hee somebody the defense hires all the time so they're
Speaker 1: beholden to the defense. No, I want somebody like a
Speaker 1: lev O that did it with the FBI. So telling
Speaker 1: me these boys as they call them, they young men,
Speaker 1: took first it was a polly. Then I find out
Speaker 1: it's a voice stress test. Took a test and they passed.
Speaker 1: Said one of them didn't take it. That means nothing.
Speaker 1: Put them on a poly with questions approved by the stay.
Speaker 1: Then I'll pay attention right now. It's really not worth
Speaker 1: a salt that goes in my bread. You know what,
Speaker 1: if I wanted someone to pass one of these lie
Speaker 1: detector tests, I go with a voice test like these
Speaker 1: young men took. I wouldn't let them take a polygraph.
Speaker 1: Susan Hendrix joining US investigative journalist and reporter death threats,
Speaker 1: including one that says blood will be everywhere? What was that?
Speaker 12: That was from a man out of Sacramento now arrested
Speaker 12: and threatening the judge who was the stepmother of war
Speaker 12: and talk about frightening, saying a lot of blood. There'll
Speaker 12: be a lot of blood like there was on the boat,
Speaker 12: but yours will be much faster.
Speaker 1: The purp is Joseph Alfredo Vesques du Mars, arrested Thursday
Speaker 1: on charges of interstate transmission of threatening communication. Now these
Speaker 1: are federal documents. What did he threaten? One of the
Speaker 1: young men's mom with Susan.
Speaker 12: The threats were against Warren, one of the boys on
Speaker 12: the boat, his stepmother who is a judge, And it
Speaker 12: was graphic. It was brutal, saying there will be blood everywhere,
Speaker 12: threatening her life, talking about on the boat set.
Speaker 1: It really does. It says that he is sending a
Speaker 1: bomb to her office that will quote blow you away.
Speaker 1: When you see it. Once that package is open, the
Speaker 1: timer will start. Then you have ten seconds or less
Speaker 1: to ask God for forgiveness. So much blood everywhere hard
Speaker 1: to clean, especially from a boat that was in that letter.
Speaker 1: And there is another death threat Susan Hendrix to Mississippi
Speaker 1: law enforcement saying don't go outside. What happened with that?
Speaker 12: Yeah, Cincinnati, Ohio woman calling two officials out of Mississippi
Speaker 12: several times, more than twenty five times. Here is her mugshot,
Speaker 12: and you're right, don't go outside, saying there's a bomb.
Speaker 12: So the threats, they're taking them seriously as they should
Speaker 12: to arrest.
Speaker 1: So far, that's right. A woman now accused of bomb
Speaker 1: threats to government offices related to the Nolan Wills investigation.
Speaker 1: This is an Ohio woman facing federal charges. Michelle Francine
Speaker 1: Edwards just charged in the US District Court, Southern District, Mississippi,
Speaker 1: one count transmitting threatening communications to interstate commerce. Okay, nobody
Speaker 1: can do their job appropriately when they're under a death threat.
Speaker 1: That's against Mississippi law enforcement. Trust me, there are people
Speaker 1: within law enforcement that are trying to do the right thing.
Speaker 1: Threats on one of the young men's mothers that's not all,
Speaker 1: Teslan Figaro. Nolan's family has gotten threats too.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and you know, I don't condone violence on anybody,
Speaker 2: but I do want to put some context behind this.
Speaker 2: Nancy as Well, I was a police officer in the
Speaker 2: Air Force. You're talking about government officials meeting. I'm sure
Speaker 2: the judge has received threats. I'm sure the police officer
Speaker 2: has received threats. Although they are not they should not happen.
Speaker 2: But these are individuals that have taken just like you
Speaker 2: and I have taken on, you know, positions that it
Speaker 2: comes with the territory. You have received death threats. I
Speaker 2: have received death threats. So the people that's not being
Speaker 2: talked about that's receiving the death threats is Nolan Well's
Speaker 2: mother and father. Why is nobody talking about the death
Speaker 2: threats with them? They've reported it. Why isn't anybody arresting
Speaker 2: the people who are actually harassing the victims. It's on line,
Speaker 2: it's available for people to see. So I just find
Speaker 2: it very interesting that there's so much sympathy for a
Speaker 2: police officer who not only do they receive death threats,
Speaker 2: they put their life on the line. They signed up
Speaker 2: and raised their hand to say, hey, pick me for
Speaker 2: the death threats and pick me to give my very
Speaker 2: life as I did in the Air Force.
Speaker 7: So it is not right what is happening.
Speaker 2: But we also have to shine a light on the
Speaker 2: actual victims, the actual people who are grieving the loss
Speaker 2: of their son, and nobody gives a damn about the
Speaker 2: death threats that they're receiving.
Speaker 1: I want to be very clear, Ms. Figure. You say
Speaker 1: nobody cares, that's not true. I care. I care. I
Speaker 1: care about the death threats on Nolan's my mother and
Speaker 1: his family and his team. I also care about death
Speaker 1: threats on one of these boys mother and on law enforcement.
Speaker 1: And yes, my first death threat, oh my goodness, came
Speaker 1: back in the eighties. But guess what, they faxed it
Speaker 1: to me from the Fullton County jail. So that wasn't
Speaker 1: much of a mystery. But with every time you take
Speaker 1: a position, you make people angry. The thing is, if
Speaker 1: these threats, including the ones on No One's mother, the mother,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm doing all night long till two o'clock,
Speaker 1: Miss Figure, I'm packing my children to go away to college.
Speaker 1: That's what No One's mother should be doing tonight. She
Speaker 1: should be getting him ready to go back to school. Instead,
Speaker 1: she's visiting his remains and now death threats. We want
Speaker 1: justice in this case. We don't want secret granjury proceedings.
Speaker 1: We don't want secret medical examiner reports. We want all
Speaker 1: threats investigated. We want the truth behind that audio. I
Speaker 1: want to know and I want everybody on that boat polygraphed.
Speaker 1: We want answers if you know or you think you
Speaker 1: know anything about this case. Dial two two eight seven
Speaker 1: six nine three zero sixty three. Tonight, we honor canine
Speaker 1: Echo protected while serving the Sartel PD, Minnesota, because a
Speaker 1: grip called vested interest in canines created a bullet and
Speaker 1: stab proof protected vest and protected echo. These things aren't standard.
Speaker 1: Thereover a one thousand dollars each, and I've seen mini
Speaker 1: canines die on crime scenes. Protect those canines who protect us.
Speaker 1: We remember an American hero officer, Brian Huff, Detroit PD,
Speaker 1: shot in the light of duty after twelve years, leaving
Speaker 1: behind his wife, Melissa and their son Blair. American hero
Speaker 1: Officer Brian Huff. Thank you to our guests for being
Speaker 1: with us tonight, but especially to you for joining us
Speaker 1: and our search for the truth. However it may pan
Speaker 1: out if it brings down the Courtouse Waltz, so be it.
Speaker 1: We want the truth about Nolan Wills. Nancy Gray signing off,
Speaker 1: I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night friend,