WEBVTT - Seminole Golf Club with Bill Coore and Zac Blair 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.600 The fried egg requires a different technique. What you need 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:06.760 to do is actually square the face so they'll dig 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:10.440 down underneath that bad line and propel that ball right 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:11.160 out onto the green. 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.239 Here's the thing. Playing out of a buried lion of 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:16.880 bunker is completely different than playing out of a nice 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.760 clean lion of greenside bunker. You need to be aggressive 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:24.760 on any shop weather it's sitting cleanly for its Frida egg. Well, 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:25.840 we've all faced it. 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:27.360 The dreaded fried egg. 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:30.040 Not to be feared, though it's actually a pretty easy 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:30.640 shot to hit. 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:50.360 Mysterious places evoke intrigue. Over its ninety year history, Seminole 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:54.120 Golf Club has been a mystery to most golfers. Sitting 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:56.640 in South Florida and near the top of all the 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:00.520 course rankings, Seminole has chosen to stay out at the spotlight. 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:03.920 As a result, not many golfers have had the chance 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:07.680 to understand what makes it great. But on May seventeenth, 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:10.399 the nineteen twenty nine Donald Ross design will be on 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:15.160 display for the entire world to see. Rory McElroy, Dustin Johnson, 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.600 Ricky Fowler, and Matthew Wolf will take Seminol on in 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:23.520 a televised Skins match called Taylor made driving relief. While 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:27.240 playable for all, Seminole is an unrelenting test for elite 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:31.280 golfers like those four. Ben Hogan once remarked that if 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.560 I were a young man going on the Pro Tour, 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:36.640 I'd try and make arrangements to get on Seminole. If 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:38.959 you could play Seminole, you can play any course in 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:42.880 the world. So to wet everyone's appetite for the match, 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:46.399 I talked about Seminole's history and Ross's design with architect 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:50.240 Bill Koorr, who, along with Ben Crenshaw, completed a recent 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:54.200 restoration of the course. I also spoke with PGA Tour 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:58.520 player and frequent Seminole Pro Member participant Zach Blair. Both 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.280 Bill and Zach gave me some fast insights into what 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:02.960 makes Seminole Golf Club tick. 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:13.800 Well, it's it's it's Uh. I'm very pleased personally that 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.799 they're that they're doing it and that people will get 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:21.239 a chance to see at least the Seminole. It's it's 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.760 one of the it's one of the very best courses 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:29.000 in our country. And uh, it's a course Andy that's 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:33.320 without question. If you want to learn anything about the 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.119 state of your game. If you think you have some 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:41.799 talent and some skill you got simom play, you'll get 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:43.000 the answer really quick. 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:49.040 Yeah that's uh, it's so hard. I played it one 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.880 time years ago and it just kicked my ass. 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:58.080 Yeah, it's it's just like Oakmont. If you want to, 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.120 if you just if you just start feeling kind of 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.600 good about yourself in your game, just go play there 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:10.440 and you'll find out very quickly how good your game 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:11.000 really is. 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.560 And that's the amazing thing is like visually it doesn't 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:16.399 look hard, but it's so high. 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:23.880 It is so difficult to just consistently play shots that 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:28.200 are that are on the greens in in puttible positions. 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.760 I mean, you get the ball. Those greens are all 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:35.200 just basic tilts. For the most part. Number four has 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:39.240 some very interesting internal contour beautiful, but for the most part, 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:43.920 the greens and seminole they're just tilts. And and boy, 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.680 if you're underneath the hole putting uphill, good for you, 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:51.040 Good for you. That's hard to do if you're even 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.440 with the hole on either side putting crossways, or if 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.320 the Lord knows, if you're above the hole putting downhill 0:03:57.560 --> 0:03:59.800 and the wind's blowing and yet the wind has to 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.560 be putting. You're putting downhill down and wind, well, good luck, 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:05.160 good luck, you fell. 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:11.360 What stands out about Seminole within his body of work 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:13.000 as other courses. 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:19.279 Well, I think Andy, it's you know, it's interesting to me, 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:28.120 though it may be somewhat almost blasphemous. He managed to 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:33.520 take a site that, while it's visually stunning, particularly when 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:35.880 you're on its borders and on the dune and the 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:40.839 dune ridges, or you have visibility the ocean, it's not 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:44.360 a site that I would say was extraordinary in terms 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:48.159 of its potential for golf. And it you know, it 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:51.680 is dominated by the two prime ridges that if you 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:54.119 you know, for folks who've been there or played there, 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:58.720 there's the prominent ocean ridge along which the seventeenth and 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:03.240 eighteenth holes and co the thirteenth place too, and that's 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.040 right along the ocean. And then there's the major dune 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.880 ridge upon which he placed holes like three and four 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:16.920 and five six that are that are there. But the 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.320 rest of the property, for the for the most of 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.600 the rest of the holes was a low lying basin, 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:28.280 which I have to imagine just by observing it even 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:33.320 in current times and reading about you know, the process 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:36.520 when they were working there all those years ago, had 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.480 to flooded. I mean, it had to have been you know, 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:43.560 in extreme weather events at times that it had to 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:49.000 be problematic because of drainage issues. So it's it's in 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:53.400 a lot of ways, it's it's like working I don't know, Andy, 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:57.159 I guess it's like working in a giant solid bowl 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.320 with a couple of a couple of big forks laden there, 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:04.880 you know, over the ridges. So I wouldn't I wouldn't 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.560 say it was one of the great sights ever, you know, 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:12.160 for golf. And yet he mister Ross managed to the 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:15.839 way he routed the golf course and used the dune 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:20.400 ridges to highlight the most interesting well maybe I shouldn't 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:22.560 need to say the most interesting holes, but certainly the 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:26.560 most visually interesting holes and connect those to the holes 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:30.760 that were in the low lying patient is just beyond artistic. 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:36.600 Yeah, it's a it's kind of a rectangular property. That's 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.719 a pretty small site, right, So the routing, it was 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:44.120 very creative. The way he used the got to the 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:47.400 edges of the property and maximize them. 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:53.080 Correct, that's correct, that's correct. And yet uh again, the 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.960 way he managed to go to those dune ridges were 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:00.120 the that were the most prominent and the most interesting 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:04.000 for golf, and then go away from them and continue 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.040 to do that throughout the course. Go to them, go 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:11.120 away from them, using the high ridges and using the 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:16.800 low basin just just created well again, it was just 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:22.400 a masterful routing, and particularly when you take into consideration 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:28.200 the the angles of the holes and the how they 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:32.640 would play, the the downhill shots where they are, but 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.760 more importantly the uphill shots to greens and set upon 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.720 those ridges. And then in conjunction with the influence. 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:45.400 You do you have any favorite like little historical tidbits 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:47.520 that you might have picked up from your time there. 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:51.480 You know, I think the thing to me Andy, But 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.800 being in the business that I'm in, Ben and I 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:59.160 are in, and it was it was interesting just reading 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:05.120 about other people looked at the site. You know, before 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:11.600 mister Ross was retained to design the course and if 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:16.560 memory serves me, E F. Hutton was the then president 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.720 at Seminole and uh uh, you know, to build to 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:25.920 build the course and it talked to different people in 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:30.440 the design business, and I truthfully don't know who he 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.760 who are they talked to, But I do know from 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:38.120 reading that there were other proposals that were made to 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:44.040 design the course, and the others all recommended that the 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:49.760 primary dune bridge, you know, especially the one there were 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.520 wholds three, four or five six, you know those, and 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:59.360 are that that and two green and eleven green and 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.280 all that part of the most amazing part of the 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:07.360 golf course as it's now existed for all these years. 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.480 But the primary dune ridge, they were recommending it be 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:14.760 knocked down, that the sand be taken from that done 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:19.200 ridge to elevate the base of the low ground. And 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:24.600 certainly from an engineering perspective, I guess that would have 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.880 been a very logical thing to recommend. It would have 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.040 been a huge amount of work, you know, in those days. 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:35.360 But still I could see how someone would go out 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:37.560 there and say, boy, we've got all this giant area 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:41.000 of basin and flat ground, and it's poorly trained, and 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.520 you know, let's take all this sand from this giant 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.559 ridge and we'll just elevate all the bottom areas, and 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:52.319 therefore we'll make building the golf course, you know, a 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:57.400 more pragmatic proposition. And mister Ross went there and I 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:03.320 guess very quickly termined that dune ridge that everyone else 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:07.079 was talking about, you know, dramatically lowering or even possibly 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:09.240 I don't know, they would have gotten rid of it all. 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.959 But he felt like that was, you know, the most 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:17.439 interesting part of the property, and that that should be 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.280 the guide for how to lay out the holes and 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:26.480 to use that ridge as often as possible. And he did, 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.920 and he did, and those you know, if you've studied 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.760 the routing at some and A, it's just fascinating how 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:37.800 many times he was able to create really interesting golf 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:42.800 situations on that ridge that other people had talked about eliminate. 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.319 Yeah, that's so amazing to think about it. And then 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.400 you start to think about the architects that would have, 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:53.319 you know, thought about doing that. It's even more fascinating 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.160 given that time, because there weren't that many earth movers 0:10:58.320 --> 0:10:59.360 right right. 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:03.199 Yeah, it was, it truly was. It was a fast night. 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.520 I mean I could walk out there and I was 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.319 out here, go, well, yeah, I can see it logically, 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:14.120 engineering wise, pragmatically, yeah, there's all the same you could 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.720 ever need right here in this big ridge. Let's just 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:20.200 take it and put it down there, you know, take 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.160 it and put it on both sides of itself and uh, 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:27.120 we'll solve the issue here, the drainage issue, and instead 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:32.439 mister Oss used it to make what I think it 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:36.720 could pretty easily be said or the most visually appealing 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:42.079 and perhaps the most strategically interesting holes in the golf 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:46.000 course that are integrated into that dune ridge, and then 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.720 went into the basin and built a series of canals 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:53.960 and lakes and to build to deal with the issues there. 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:57.959 What are a few holes that really stand out to you? 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.440 Oh, well, we've yes, we you know, most anyone that's 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:07.680 played golf seen photographs of the you know, the seventeenth hole, 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:15.480 the thirteenth hole, you know the eighteenth hole. But I 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:20.160 have to say number four, number four, which which runs 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:25.079 right on top of the primary dune ridge that's internal 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:29.000 to the property, is both one of the most interesting, 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:33.760 fascinating holes and beautiful holes. Not just how he laid 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.200 the laid the hole right on the top of the 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:41.120 ridge running down there, but how the bunkering was then 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:49.080 placed in both strategic and visually interesting positions, and the 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:54.480 influence of the wind on that hole that it may 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:56.280 be my personal favorite. There. 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.840 You talked a little bit about the You mentioned the 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:03.520 a few of the closing holes. Talk a little bit 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.200 about the what viewers are going to see with the 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.400 closing stretch of seminole. 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:18.000 Well from oh gosh, really, the tenth hole starts off 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.200 a very flat hole that plays away from the clubhouse, 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:25.240 and you know, it's an interesting hole. It's a it's 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:29.559 it has water influence of water short left of the green, 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.880 and but it's a very flat hole. It's just totally 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.559 in the in the lower basin there. And then eleven 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.800 starts out because of the tea shots across the water, 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.959 and then and then to a second shot uphill to 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.320 a very difficult green set up in one of those 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:53.480 primary dunes and extremely influenced by the wind. And then 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:57.640 from that point it's down down off the dune, the 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.120 te shot down off the dune at twelve and to 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:05.199 the low lying fairway and the greens down lower. And 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:09.400 then probably what you're most referring to is when you 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:13.720 come from thirteen and thirteen to par three that plays 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.280 from the low in the basin, the greens set up 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:21.479 again up into the primary dune right at the ocean fourteen, 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:25.600 playing back from there back to another through the low 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:29.440 ground back to another high spot in the dunes fifteen 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:31.920 a hole that a lot of us have seen and 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.480 probably be very interesting to folks watching on TV at 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:40.920 second consecutive par five, fourteen and fifteen or fifteen, you know, 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.760 playing off a high spot in the dune, but the 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.240 rest of the hole is all in the low basin, 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:51.200 and it's a split fairway hole and eat with the 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:55.400 right hand side of the fairway being the preferred line 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.600 for certainly for the players that you're going to watch 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:03.160 on television, on the left hand side fairway being more 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:09.240 for you know, membership and less accomplished player use. And 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.480 the two fairways are split by a sequence of bunkers 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.840 between the two. So you think back and you think, well, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:19.400 we've you know, particularly in more recent years, we've seen 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:24.200 quite a few split fairways. This is one of the 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:29.640 very early ones. So it's it's interesting architecturally, not just 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:34.600 because of how it would play and uh and the 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:39.640 and the split fairway aspects, but it's you know, it's 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:44.640 it's an impact on golf architecture again in America. This 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.800 is this is one of the earlies, and from there 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:51.120 on you just go through. Certainly the holes that are 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:55.720 the most dramatic will be the Part three seventeenth playing 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.960 from the dune ridge right adjacent to the ocean to 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.400 a green set against the dune ridge just on the 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.560 inland side of the same dune ridge at the ocean, 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.640 and then the t shot on eighteen from the ocean 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:13.040 going across some diagonally across some beautiful bunkers to a 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.760 lower piece of fairway, but then back up onto the 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:23.000 dune ridge at the green to finish. Those are beautiful 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.760 holes and they're extremely influenced about the wind. 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.640 So Dustin Johnson talked a little bit about how he 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:35.480 always feels like he's going to go light the course 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.120 up there and shoot a really low number, but he 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:42.080 never does. What do you think about the seminoles design 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.160 has allowed it to really stand the test of time 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:49.360 even with the long hitting distances of the best players today. 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:55.480 Well, it all starts with the greens and the green sites, 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:00.760 and particularly those greens that we just talked about that 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.600 are set up into the dune, up on against or 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:09.680 occasionally up on top of the primary dune ridges. There 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:15.000 those greens you know when they're up and most of 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.560 the greens, even the ones that are low down in 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.720 the basin, are still raised above the floor of the 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:25.840 ground around them, and a little bit like Pinehurst in 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.120 the sense that they roll off at the edges. They 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:32.480 are crowned, not as severely as Pinehurst number two, but 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:38.080 they do have a great tendency to shed balls. They 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:43.840 don't collect balls very easily. And so when you're trying 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:49.560 to play to these these putting surfaces, and frequently these 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:53.000 putting surfaces are in elevation higher than where the players 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:57.800 are playing from, and playing, you know, with wind either 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:00.760 at your back, off the left, off the right, into 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:05.520 you a quartering from all directions, it can be very problematic. 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:07.720 I don't care how full they hit the ball. I 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.840 care you could stand out there a little like I 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:15.560 once heard it set by a very good player about 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.760 Planeers number two. You could give the best players in 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.760 the world, you know, let them play from one hundred 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.320 and fifty yards in every hole. It still wouldn't be 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.879 that easy. And I think someone someone like that. The 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:33.879 influence that the con cave nature, the rolled off nature, 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.040 the edges of the greens, the speed of the greens, 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:42.080 the firmness of the greens, and all combined with the 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:46.280 angles you play into them and the wind directions and 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:50.119 of course, the velocity of the wind at times just 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:54.320 makes it very problematic to be successful there time after time. 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.720 You let it in perfectly to my next question. You've 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:04.240 restored both Seminole and Pinehurst number two, probably two of 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.680 the arguably the most famous, two of the five most 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.119 famous ross designs. For sure, what are you know the 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:13.960 greens have some similarities. What are some of the biggest 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.320 differences between the two? And obviously I think most listeners 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.159 will be very familiar with Pineher's Number two, but you 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:22.240 know they'll be seeing Seminole, most of them for the 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:22.800 first time. 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.520 Well, the greens, as I say, they're similar in the 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:32.000 sense that they're are inverted saucers. You know, generally at 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:37.320 both courses number two course, the greens being much more 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:41.200 severely crowned or rolled off on the edges, and then 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:45.480 at Seminole, but Seminoles being more influenced by the wind 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:50.919 and oftentimes more elevated in terms of the you know, 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:55.800 the elevations from which you're playing from up to the greens, 0:19:56.240 --> 0:20:01.639 and sometimes they are reversed down, but there they are. 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:04.679 They are similar. They're similar in the in the sense 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:11.200 that I've always believed that you know, certainly pioneers Number two. 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:16.640 We've read about how mister Ross believed that was the 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.840 second shot golf course. You know, the t shots were 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.720 played to set up the second shots, and the second 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:30.760 shots were the most important shots at number two. I've 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:36.719 never read that he said that about Seminole, but uh, 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.680 you know, you look at look at probably a lot 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:42.480 of his golf courses, and you you could probably make 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:47.320 that argument. And I have an idea that if you 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:49.880 were to talk to the best players you know who 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:54.959 play at Seminole, you might find that they would agree 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:59.000 with that. Uh. The fairways much like number two course 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:06.080 at Seminole, the fairways are generously wide, and they look 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:10.240 like they're oh, they're very forgiving, and certainly the ones 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:14.119 in the basin are very flatish the fairway contours, and 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:18.119 the ones from the dunes, of course, not so much. 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:22.360 But I would think the very best players can look 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:26.200 at the t shots and say, Okay, I can see 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:29.680 what's required of me here, and I can do this. 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:34.080 I can do this feel pretty comfortable when confronted with 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:39.080 the approach shots to those greens, knowing how easily those 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:44.280 greens could shed balls, and at sunno more so even 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.359 than Piner's number two. When the ball doesn't stay on 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:51.680 the putting serves, it rolls off down the sides. It 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:55.639 can be much more problematic than at number two, because 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.720 the elevation can be greater, the ball can get away 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.919 further from the greens or get into sandy areas, and 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:06.800 thinks it can be even more problematic than number two. 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:10.960 Course, yeah, it's got a little bit more dramatic land, 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:14.399 it's got some flatter portions than Piners number two. But 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:18.320 then you know, the ridges provide a little bit more 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:22.280 than you know, more peaks than any part of number two. 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:25.880 Right, correct, correct, Yeah, the elevation changed well, of course 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:29.639 at number two. The fourth hole, the fourth and fifth 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:33.119 holes the two holes that have each been par fours 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:36.120 in their lifetimes and been par fives in their lifetime, 0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:40.560 so they the fourth hole has more elevation change in 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:44.720 the fifth holes probably, I would say, I don't know 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:47.479 the exact but I would say somewhat comparable to some 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:52.119 of the holes at Seminole. But generally speaking, yes, you 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:57.520 do have more uphill shots and more downhill shots at 0:22:57.560 --> 0:23:02.400 Seminole than you would at Pine Nurse number two, and 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:08.240 it's much more open in terms of trees, Seminole has 0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:12.880 palm trees and you know, some beautiful trees. But the 0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:15.720 wind is much more of a factory at Seminole because 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:20.359 it's literally Liares immediately adjacent to the ocean and the 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:24.920 ocean breezes, whereas Pine Nurse is inland and it's all 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:28.760 the holes are framed, although far out from the lines 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:33.560 of play, but they're framed by pine trees, which often 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:37.240 masks the wind and so or at least diminish it. 0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:42.159 Yeah, that South Florida wind can be just unrelenting. It 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:46.440 can be just killer. So last question. You know, we've 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:49.600 talked a lot about the greens and what if you 0:23:49.600 --> 0:23:52.120 were gonna if you could take one of the greens 0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:55.479 off Seminole and put it in your backyard, which one 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:55.960 would it be? 0:23:56.000 --> 0:24:01.640 And why? Well, I guess I guess I have said 0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:07.960 I've never thought of that, but I guess it would 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:11.399 be seventeen. I mean, you know, I guess because we 0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:15.399 most often think of of shortish part three holes to 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:18.840 have that have really interesting greens. What do you think 0:24:18.880 --> 0:24:23.000 about the fifteenth at Cyprus Point to seventh at Pebble Beach, 0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:27.119 And you know that's sort of throughout the history of 0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:30.600 some of the best courses in the world, it's been 0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:36.400 some little some shortish part threes and the green at 0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:41.240 the green and the bunker configurations that at seventeen it's 0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:44.480 some of old. It's just fantastic. It's a very simple green, 0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:49.560 just very simple, sort of a bit of a oval, 0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:53.919 not quite an oval, but sitting there just slightly at 0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:57.800 an angle, you know, to the line of play, and 0:24:58.280 --> 0:25:03.440 surrounded by beautiful punker on all sides, and you're you're 0:25:03.520 --> 0:25:06.720 standing on the primary dune ridge with the ocean you know, 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:09.320 to your left and and sort of behind you, and 0:25:09.359 --> 0:25:12.760 you're playing toward this beautiful green and bunker configuration and 0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:16.960 the palm trees swaying in the background, and the clubhouse 0:25:17.040 --> 0:25:20.960 further down in the background. And it's pretty neat. It's 0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:24.600 a pretty neat setting. And if I guess, if we're 0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:29.240 going to try to recreate some setting of South Florida 0:25:29.280 --> 0:25:33.960 in my backyard, it might be something like that. 0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:36.280 That's it would be a tough thing to recreate in 0:25:36.640 --> 0:25:37.560 the desert, you know. 0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:43.880 It would, it would, but it's the it's memorable, and 0:25:44.080 --> 0:25:48.200 it's uh. I think it would be a very interesting 0:25:48.320 --> 0:25:52.120 hole as as all of them will be, but very 0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:55.920 interesting to watch watch the players take a crack out, 0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:03.200 all right. 0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:07.359 So DJ talked about how he always feels like he 0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:10.199 should light up Seminal when he goes and plays the 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:13.720 Seminole Pro member, but he never does. Why do you 0:26:13.720 --> 0:26:14.320 think that is? 0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:18.959 I think just for a lot of reasons. Honestly, the uh, 0:26:19.960 --> 0:26:23.439 if the winds up, it's obviously a much different golf course, 0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:28.520 and then the green complexes and this surrounds. It's more 0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:32.280 of like the exterior contours of the greens are so 0:26:32.480 --> 0:26:40.240 diabolical that anytime they get pins close to edges, you're 0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:43.080 right on the edge of disaster anytime you're hitting a shot. 0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:48.000 So if you don't execute perfectly, which sometimes is hitting 0:26:48.080 --> 0:26:50.560 you know, twenty feet away from the hole, you end 0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:53.240 up in really really bad spots. And that's why that 0:26:53.280 --> 0:26:54.960 place is so cool and so fun. 0:26:56.119 --> 0:26:59.840 That's what's the experience like playing in that Seminole Pro Member. 0:27:00.600 --> 0:27:04.320 It's awesome. I mean, the course is obviously always meant 0:27:05.080 --> 0:27:08.240 it's cool being around that many really great players, and 0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:11.439