Speaker 1: The fried egg requires a different technique. What you need
Speaker 1: to do is actually square the face so they'll dig
Speaker 1: down underneath that bad line and propel that ball right
Speaker 1: out onto the green.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. Playing out of a buried lion of
Speaker 2: bunker is completely different than playing out of a nice
Speaker 2: clean lion of greenside bunker. You need to be aggressive
Speaker 2: on any shop weather it's sitting cleanly for its Frida egg. Well,
Speaker 2: we've all faced it.
Speaker 3: The dreaded fried egg.
Speaker 1: Not to be feared, though it's actually a pretty easy
Speaker 1: shot to hit.
Speaker 3: Mysterious places evoke intrigue. Over its ninety year history, Seminole
Speaker 3: Golf Club has been a mystery to most golfers. Sitting
Speaker 3: in South Florida and near the top of all the
Speaker 3: course rankings, Seminole has chosen to stay out at the spotlight.
Speaker 3: As a result, not many golfers have had the chance
Speaker 3: to understand what makes it great. But on May seventeenth,
Speaker 3: the nineteen twenty nine Donald Ross design will be on
Speaker 3: display for the entire world to see. Rory McElroy, Dustin Johnson,
Speaker 3: Ricky Fowler, and Matthew Wolf will take Seminol on in
Speaker 3: a televised Skins match called Taylor made driving relief. While
Speaker 3: playable for all, Seminole is an unrelenting test for elite
Speaker 3: golfers like those four. Ben Hogan once remarked that if
Speaker 3: I were a young man going on the Pro Tour,
Speaker 3: I'd try and make arrangements to get on Seminole. If
Speaker 3: you could play Seminole, you can play any course in
Speaker 3: the world. So to wet everyone's appetite for the match,
Speaker 3: I talked about Seminole's history and Ross's design with architect
Speaker 3: Bill Koorr, who, along with Ben Crenshaw, completed a recent
Speaker 3: restoration of the course. I also spoke with PGA Tour
Speaker 3: player and frequent Seminole Pro Member participant Zach Blair. Both
Speaker 3: Bill and Zach gave me some fast insights into what
Speaker 3: makes Seminole Golf Club tick.
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's it's Uh. I'm very pleased personally that
Speaker 2: they're that they're doing it and that people will get
Speaker 2: a chance to see at least the Seminole. It's it's
Speaker 2: one of the it's one of the very best courses
Speaker 2: in our country. And uh, it's a course Andy that's
Speaker 2: without question. If you want to learn anything about the
Speaker 2: state of your game. If you think you have some
Speaker 2: talent and some skill you got simom play, you'll get
Speaker 2: the answer really quick.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's uh, it's so hard. I played it one
Speaker 3: time years ago and it just kicked my ass.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's just like Oakmont. If you want to,
Speaker 2: if you just if you just start feeling kind of
Speaker 2: good about yourself in your game, just go play there
Speaker 2: and you'll find out very quickly how good your game
Speaker 2: really is.
Speaker 3: And that's the amazing thing is like visually it doesn't
Speaker 3: look hard, but it's so high.
Speaker 2: It is so difficult to just consistently play shots that
Speaker 2: are that are on the greens in in puttible positions.
Speaker 2: I mean, you get the ball. Those greens are all
Speaker 2: just basic tilts. For the most part. Number four has
Speaker 2: some very interesting internal contour beautiful, but for the most part,
Speaker 2: the greens and seminole they're just tilts. And and boy,
Speaker 2: if you're underneath the hole putting uphill, good for you,
Speaker 2: Good for you. That's hard to do if you're even
Speaker 2: with the hole on either side putting crossways, or if
Speaker 2: the Lord knows, if you're above the hole putting downhill
Speaker 2: and the wind's blowing and yet the wind has to
Speaker 2: be putting. You're putting downhill down and wind, well, good luck,
Speaker 2: good luck, you fell.
Speaker 3: What stands out about Seminole within his body of work
Speaker 3: as other courses.
Speaker 2: Well, I think Andy, it's you know, it's interesting to me,
Speaker 2: though it may be somewhat almost blasphemous. He managed to
Speaker 2: take a site that, while it's visually stunning, particularly when
Speaker 2: you're on its borders and on the dune and the
Speaker 2: dune ridges, or you have visibility the ocean, it's not
Speaker 2: a site that I would say was extraordinary in terms
Speaker 2: of its potential for golf. And it you know, it
Speaker 2: is dominated by the two prime ridges that if you
Speaker 2: you know, for folks who've been there or played there,
Speaker 2: there's the prominent ocean ridge along which the seventeenth and
Speaker 2: eighteenth holes and co the thirteenth place too, and that's
Speaker 2: right along the ocean. And then there's the major dune
Speaker 2: ridge upon which he placed holes like three and four
Speaker 2: and five six that are that are there. But the
Speaker 2: rest of the property, for the for the most of
Speaker 2: the rest of the holes was a low lying basin,
Speaker 2: which I have to imagine just by observing it even
Speaker 2: in current times and reading about you know, the process
Speaker 2: when they were working there all those years ago, had
Speaker 2: to flooded. I mean, it had to have been you know,
Speaker 2: in extreme weather events at times that it had to
Speaker 2: be problematic because of drainage issues. So it's it's in
Speaker 2: a lot of ways, it's it's like working I don't know, Andy,
Speaker 2: I guess it's like working in a giant solid bowl
Speaker 2: with a couple of a couple of big forks laden there,
Speaker 2: you know, over the ridges. So I wouldn't I wouldn't
Speaker 2: say it was one of the great sights ever, you know,
Speaker 2: for golf. And yet he mister Ross managed to the
Speaker 2: way he routed the golf course and used the dune
Speaker 2: ridges to highlight the most interesting well maybe I shouldn't
Speaker 2: need to say the most interesting holes, but certainly the
Speaker 2: most visually interesting holes and connect those to the holes
Speaker 2: that were in the low lying patient is just beyond artistic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a it's kind of a rectangular property. That's
Speaker 3: a pretty small site, right, So the routing, it was
Speaker 3: very creative. The way he used the got to the
Speaker 3: edges of the property and maximize them.
Speaker 2: Correct, that's correct, that's correct. And yet uh again, the
Speaker 2: way he managed to go to those dune ridges were
Speaker 2: the that were the most prominent and the most interesting
Speaker 2: for golf, and then go away from them and continue
Speaker 2: to do that throughout the course. Go to them, go
Speaker 2: away from them, using the high ridges and using the
Speaker 2: low basin just just created well again, it was just
Speaker 2: a masterful routing, and particularly when you take into consideration
Speaker 2: the the angles of the holes and the how they
Speaker 2: would play, the the downhill shots where they are, but
Speaker 2: more importantly the uphill shots to greens and set upon
Speaker 2: those ridges. And then in conjunction with the influence.
Speaker 3: You do you have any favorite like little historical tidbits
Speaker 3: that you might have picked up from your time there.
Speaker 2: You know, I think the thing to me Andy, But
Speaker 2: being in the business that I'm in, Ben and I
Speaker 2: are in, and it was it was interesting just reading
Speaker 2: about other people looked at the site. You know, before
Speaker 2: mister Ross was retained to design the course and if
Speaker 2: memory serves me, E F. Hutton was the then president
Speaker 2: at Seminole and uh uh, you know, to build to
Speaker 2: build the course and it talked to different people in
Speaker 2: the design business, and I truthfully don't know who he
Speaker 2: who are they talked to, But I do know from
Speaker 2: reading that there were other proposals that were made to
Speaker 2: design the course, and the others all recommended that the
Speaker 2: primary dune bridge, you know, especially the one there were
Speaker 2: wholds three, four or five six, you know those, and
Speaker 2: are that that and two green and eleven green and
Speaker 2: all that part of the most amazing part of the
Speaker 2: golf course as it's now existed for all these years.
Speaker 2: But the primary dune ridge, they were recommending it be
Speaker 2: knocked down, that the sand be taken from that done
Speaker 2: ridge to elevate the base of the low ground. And
Speaker 2: certainly from an engineering perspective, I guess that would have
Speaker 2: been a very logical thing to recommend. It would have
Speaker 2: been a huge amount of work, you know, in those days.
Speaker 2: But still I could see how someone would go out
Speaker 2: there and say, boy, we've got all this giant area
Speaker 2: of basin and flat ground, and it's poorly trained, and
Speaker 2: you know, let's take all this sand from this giant
Speaker 2: ridge and we'll just elevate all the bottom areas, and
Speaker 2: therefore we'll make building the golf course, you know, a
Speaker 2: more pragmatic proposition. And mister Ross went there and I
Speaker 2: guess very quickly termined that dune ridge that everyone else
Speaker 2: was talking about, you know, dramatically lowering or even possibly
Speaker 2: I don't know, they would have gotten rid of it all.
Speaker 2: But he felt like that was, you know, the most
Speaker 2: interesting part of the property, and that that should be
Speaker 2: the guide for how to lay out the holes and
Speaker 2: to use that ridge as often as possible. And he did,
Speaker 2: and he did, and those you know, if you've studied
Speaker 2: the routing at some and A, it's just fascinating how
Speaker 2: many times he was able to create really interesting golf
Speaker 2: situations on that ridge that other people had talked about eliminate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so amazing to think about it. And then
Speaker 3: you start to think about the architects that would have,
Speaker 3: you know, thought about doing that. It's even more fascinating
Speaker 3: given that time, because there weren't that many earth movers
Speaker 3: right right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, it truly was. It was a fast night.
Speaker 2: I mean I could walk out there and I was
Speaker 2: out here, go, well, yeah, I can see it logically,
Speaker 2: engineering wise, pragmatically, yeah, there's all the same you could
Speaker 2: ever need right here in this big ridge. Let's just
Speaker 2: take it and put it down there, you know, take
Speaker 2: it and put it on both sides of itself and uh,
Speaker 2: we'll solve the issue here, the drainage issue, and instead
Speaker 2: mister Oss used it to make what I think it
Speaker 2: could pretty easily be said or the most visually appealing
Speaker 2: and perhaps the most strategically interesting holes in the golf
Speaker 2: course that are integrated into that dune ridge, and then
Speaker 2: went into the basin and built a series of canals
Speaker 2: and lakes and to build to deal with the issues there.
Speaker 3: What are a few holes that really stand out to you?
Speaker 2: Oh, well, we've yes, we you know, most anyone that's
Speaker 2: played golf seen photographs of the you know, the seventeenth hole,
Speaker 2: the thirteenth hole, you know the eighteenth hole. But I
Speaker 2: have to say number four, number four, which which runs
Speaker 2: right on top of the primary dune ridge that's internal
Speaker 2: to the property, is both one of the most interesting,
Speaker 2: fascinating holes and beautiful holes. Not just how he laid
Speaker 2: the laid the hole right on the top of the
Speaker 2: ridge running down there, but how the bunkering was then
Speaker 2: placed in both strategic and visually interesting positions, and the
Speaker 2: influence of the wind on that hole that it may
Speaker 2: be my personal favorite. There.
Speaker 3: You talked a little bit about the You mentioned the
Speaker 3: a few of the closing holes. Talk a little bit
Speaker 3: about the what viewers are going to see with the
Speaker 3: closing stretch of seminole.
Speaker 2: Well from oh gosh, really, the tenth hole starts off
Speaker 2: a very flat hole that plays away from the clubhouse,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's an interesting hole. It's a it's
Speaker 2: it has water influence of water short left of the green,
Speaker 2: and but it's a very flat hole. It's just totally
Speaker 2: in the in the lower basin there. And then eleven
Speaker 2: starts out because of the tea shots across the water,
Speaker 2: and then and then to a second shot uphill to
Speaker 2: a very difficult green set up in one of those
Speaker 2: primary dunes and extremely influenced by the wind. And then
Speaker 2: from that point it's down down off the dune, the
Speaker 2: te shot down off the dune at twelve and to
Speaker 2: the low lying fairway and the greens down lower. And
Speaker 2: then probably what you're most referring to is when you
Speaker 2: come from thirteen and thirteen to par three that plays
Speaker 2: from the low in the basin, the greens set up
Speaker 2: again up into the primary dune right at the ocean fourteen,
Speaker 2: playing back from there back to another through the low
Speaker 2: ground back to another high spot in the dunes fifteen
Speaker 2: a hole that a lot of us have seen and
Speaker 2: probably be very interesting to folks watching on TV at
Speaker 2: second consecutive par five, fourteen and fifteen or fifteen, you know,
Speaker 2: playing off a high spot in the dune, but the
Speaker 2: rest of the hole is all in the low basin,
Speaker 2: and it's a split fairway hole and eat with the
Speaker 2: right hand side of the fairway being the preferred line
Speaker 2: for certainly for the players that you're going to watch
Speaker 2: on television, on the left hand side fairway being more
Speaker 2: for you know, membership and less accomplished player use. And
Speaker 2: the two fairways are split by a sequence of bunkers
Speaker 2: between the two. So you think back and you think, well,
Speaker 2: we've you know, particularly in more recent years, we've seen
Speaker 2: quite a few split fairways. This is one of the
Speaker 2: very early ones. So it's it's interesting architecturally, not just
Speaker 2: because of how it would play and uh and the
Speaker 2: and the split fairway aspects, but it's you know, it's
Speaker 2: it's an impact on golf architecture again in America. This
Speaker 2: is this is one of the earlies, and from there
Speaker 2: on you just go through. Certainly the holes that are
Speaker 2: the most dramatic will be the Part three seventeenth playing
Speaker 2: from the dune ridge right adjacent to the ocean to
Speaker 2: a green set against the dune ridge just on the
Speaker 2: inland side of the same dune ridge at the ocean,
Speaker 2: and then the t shot on eighteen from the ocean
Speaker 2: going across some diagonally across some beautiful bunkers to a
Speaker 2: lower piece of fairway, but then back up onto the
Speaker 2: dune ridge at the green to finish. Those are beautiful
Speaker 2: holes and they're extremely influenced about the wind.
Speaker 3: So Dustin Johnson talked a little bit about how he
Speaker 3: always feels like he's going to go light the course
Speaker 3: up there and shoot a really low number, but he
Speaker 3: never does. What do you think about the seminoles design
Speaker 3: has allowed it to really stand the test of time
Speaker 3: even with the long hitting distances of the best players today.
Speaker 2: Well, it all starts with the greens and the green sites,
Speaker 2: and particularly those greens that we just talked about that
Speaker 2: are set up into the dune, up on against or
Speaker 2: occasionally up on top of the primary dune ridges. There
Speaker 2: those greens you know when they're up and most of
Speaker 2: the greens, even the ones that are low down in
Speaker 2: the basin, are still raised above the floor of the
Speaker 2: ground around them, and a little bit like Pinehurst in
Speaker 2: the sense that they roll off at the edges. They
Speaker 2: are crowned, not as severely as Pinehurst number two, but
Speaker 2: they do have a great tendency to shed balls. They
Speaker 2: don't collect balls very easily. And so when you're trying
Speaker 2: to play to these these putting surfaces, and frequently these
Speaker 2: putting surfaces are in elevation higher than where the players
Speaker 2: are playing from, and playing, you know, with wind either
Speaker 2: at your back, off the left, off the right, into
Speaker 2: you a quartering from all directions, it can be very problematic.
Speaker 2: I don't care how full they hit the ball. I
Speaker 2: care you could stand out there a little like I
Speaker 2: once heard it set by a very good player about
Speaker 2: Planeers number two. You could give the best players in
Speaker 2: the world, you know, let them play from one hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty yards in every hole. It still wouldn't be
Speaker 2: that easy. And I think someone someone like that. The
Speaker 2: influence that the con cave nature, the rolled off nature,
Speaker 2: the edges of the greens, the speed of the greens,
Speaker 2: the firmness of the greens, and all combined with the
Speaker 2: angles you play into them and the wind directions and
Speaker 2: of course, the velocity of the wind at times just
Speaker 2: makes it very problematic to be successful there time after time.
Speaker 3: You let it in perfectly to my next question. You've
Speaker 3: restored both Seminole and Pinehurst number two, probably two of
Speaker 3: the arguably the most famous, two of the five most
Speaker 3: famous ross designs. For sure, what are you know the
Speaker 3: greens have some similarities. What are some of the biggest
Speaker 3: differences between the two? And obviously I think most listeners
Speaker 3: will be very familiar with Pineher's Number two, but you
Speaker 3: know they'll be seeing Seminole, most of them for the
Speaker 3: first time.
Speaker 2: Well, the greens, as I say, they're similar in the
Speaker 2: sense that they're are inverted saucers. You know, generally at
Speaker 2: both courses number two course, the greens being much more
Speaker 2: severely crowned or rolled off on the edges, and then
Speaker 2: at Seminole, but Seminoles being more influenced by the wind
Speaker 2: and oftentimes more elevated in terms of the you know,
Speaker 2: the elevations from which you're playing from up to the greens,
Speaker 2: and sometimes they are reversed down, but there they are.
Speaker 2: They are similar. They're similar in the in the sense
Speaker 2: that I've always believed that you know, certainly pioneers Number two.
Speaker 2: We've read about how mister Ross believed that was the
Speaker 2: second shot golf course. You know, the t shots were
Speaker 2: played to set up the second shots, and the second
Speaker 2: shots were the most important shots at number two. I've
Speaker 2: never read that he said that about Seminole, but uh,
Speaker 2: you know, you look at look at probably a lot
Speaker 2: of his golf courses, and you you could probably make
Speaker 2: that argument. And I have an idea that if you
Speaker 2: were to talk to the best players you know who
Speaker 2: play at Seminole, you might find that they would agree
Speaker 2: with that. Uh. The fairways much like number two course
Speaker 2: at Seminole, the fairways are generously wide, and they look
Speaker 2: like they're oh, they're very forgiving, and certainly the ones
Speaker 2: in the basin are very flatish the fairway contours, and
Speaker 2: the ones from the dunes, of course, not so much.
Speaker 2: But I would think the very best players can look
Speaker 2: at the t shots and say, Okay, I can see
Speaker 2: what's required of me here, and I can do this.
Speaker 2: I can do this feel pretty comfortable when confronted with
Speaker 2: the approach shots to those greens, knowing how easily those
Speaker 2: greens could shed balls, and at sunno more so even
Speaker 2: than Piner's number two. When the ball doesn't stay on
Speaker 2: the putting serves, it rolls off down the sides. It
Speaker 2: can be much more problematic than at number two, because
Speaker 2: the elevation can be greater, the ball can get away
Speaker 2: further from the greens or get into sandy areas, and
Speaker 2: thinks it can be even more problematic than number two.
Speaker 3: Course, yeah, it's got a little bit more dramatic land,
Speaker 3: it's got some flatter portions than Piners number two. But
Speaker 3: then you know, the ridges provide a little bit more
Speaker 3: than you know, more peaks than any part of number two.
Speaker 2: Right, correct, correct, Yeah, the elevation changed well, of course
Speaker 2: at number two. The fourth hole, the fourth and fifth
Speaker 2: holes the two holes that have each been par fours
Speaker 2: in their lifetimes and been par fives in their lifetime,
Speaker 2: so they the fourth hole has more elevation change in
Speaker 2: the fifth holes probably, I would say, I don't know
Speaker 2: the exact but I would say somewhat comparable to some
Speaker 2: of the holes at Seminole. But generally speaking, yes, you
Speaker 2: do have more uphill shots and more downhill shots at
Speaker 2: Seminole than you would at Pine Nurse number two, and
Speaker 2: it's much more open in terms of trees, Seminole has
Speaker 2: palm trees and you know, some beautiful trees. But the
Speaker 2: wind is much more of a factory at Seminole because
Speaker 2: it's literally Liares immediately adjacent to the ocean and the
Speaker 2: ocean breezes, whereas Pine Nurse is inland and it's all
Speaker 2: the holes are framed, although far out from the lines
Speaker 2: of play, but they're framed by pine trees, which often
Speaker 2: masks the wind and so or at least diminish it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that South Florida wind can be just unrelenting. It
Speaker 3: can be just killer. So last question. You know, we've
Speaker 3: talked a lot about the greens and what if you
Speaker 3: were gonna if you could take one of the greens
Speaker 3: off Seminole and put it in your backyard, which one
Speaker 3: would it be?
Speaker 2: And why? Well, I guess I guess I have said
Speaker 2: I've never thought of that, but I guess it would
Speaker 2: be seventeen. I mean, you know, I guess because we
Speaker 2: most often think of of shortish part three holes to
Speaker 2: have that have really interesting greens. What do you think
Speaker 2: about the fifteenth at Cyprus Point to seventh at Pebble Beach,
Speaker 2: And you know that's sort of throughout the history of
Speaker 2: some of the best courses in the world, it's been
Speaker 2: some little some shortish part threes and the green at
Speaker 2: the green and the bunker configurations that at seventeen it's
Speaker 2: some of old. It's just fantastic. It's a very simple green,
Speaker 2: just very simple, sort of a bit of a oval,
Speaker 2: not quite an oval, but sitting there just slightly at
Speaker 2: an angle, you know, to the line of play, and
Speaker 2: surrounded by beautiful punker on all sides, and you're you're
Speaker 2: standing on the primary dune ridge with the ocean you know,
Speaker 2: to your left and and sort of behind you, and
Speaker 2: you're playing toward this beautiful green and bunker configuration and
Speaker 2: the palm trees swaying in the background, and the clubhouse
Speaker 2: further down in the background. And it's pretty neat. It's
Speaker 2: a pretty neat setting. And if I guess, if we're
Speaker 2: going to try to recreate some setting of South Florida
Speaker 2: in my backyard, it might be something like that.
Speaker 3: That's it would be a tough thing to recreate in
Speaker 3: the desert, you know.
Speaker 2: It would, it would, but it's the it's memorable, and
Speaker 2: it's uh. I think it would be a very interesting
Speaker 2: hole as as all of them will be, but very
Speaker 2: interesting to watch watch the players take a crack out,
Speaker 2: all right.
Speaker 3: So DJ talked about how he always feels like he
Speaker 3: should light up Seminal when he goes and plays the
Speaker 3: Seminole Pro member, but he never does. Why do you
Speaker 3: think that is?
Speaker 1: I think just for a lot of reasons. Honestly, the uh,
Speaker 1: if the winds up, it's obviously a much different golf course,
Speaker 1: and then the green complexes and this surrounds. It's more
Speaker 1: of like the exterior contours of the greens are so
Speaker 1: diabolical that anytime they get pins close to edges, you're
Speaker 1: right on the edge of disaster anytime you're hitting a shot.
Speaker 1: So if you don't execute perfectly, which sometimes is hitting
Speaker 1: you know, twenty feet away from the hole, you end
Speaker 1: up in really really bad spots. And that's why that
Speaker 1: place is so cool and so fun.
Speaker 3: That's what's the experience like playing in that Seminole Pro Member.
Speaker 1: It's awesome. I mean, the course is obviously always meant
Speaker 1: it's cool being around that many really great players, and
Speaker 1: you know, the whole membership gets behind it, and you know,
Speaker 1: obviously Bob Ford has done an unbelievable job getting kind
Speaker 1: of the lineup that he gets, and it's just really
Speaker 1: cool to see everybody come out for it, you know,
Speaker 1: all the good players, all the memberships out there kind
Speaker 1: of walking around watching. You know, he gets all the
Speaker 1: pros from these really great clubs to come out and help,
Speaker 1: and it's just really cool, something that's really cool to
Speaker 1: be a part of.
Speaker 3: They So I think the vast majority of the public's
Speaker 3: most familiar with Pinehurst number two, you know, Donald Great
Speaker 3: Donald Ross Championship Course. What are some similarities and differences
Speaker 3: with Seminole and Pinehurst?
Speaker 1: I would say the green complexes have some similarities in
Speaker 1: kind of those rolled edges and that kind of like
Speaker 1: turtle shell type grain. Where they are different is at Seminole,
Speaker 1: it's bunkers around all the greens and not as much
Speaker 1: short grass. I can. You know, there's some short grass
Speaker 1: in front and behind some of the greens, but honestly
Speaker 1: it's usually just all bunkers. Like one, there's bunkers left
Speaker 1: and right. Two there's bunkers to the right and kind
Speaker 1: of a hill to the left. Three is kind of
Speaker 1: the opposite bunkers left hill right. Four bunkers kind of
Speaker 1: right and left. Five bunkers all over the place, six
Speaker 1: bunkers all over the place, seven bunkers right and left.
Speaker 1: So it's just at Pinehurst number two you kind of
Speaker 1: have a bunch of greens where there's short grass. If
Speaker 1: you miss the green, it just kind of goes down
Speaker 1: into these collection areas, where at Seminole you're in a
Speaker 1: hazard and they're really really tough.
Speaker 3: What are some of your favorite things about Seminole.
Speaker 1: I just think it's so cool how that place can
Speaker 1: play so different day to day or even round to round.
Speaker 1: If you played two rounds in one day, you know,
Speaker 1: you can get out there and the wind can be
Speaker 1: down and you can light that place up, and then
Speaker 1: you could go back out after lunch and have it
Speaker 1: blowing twenty and if you break par you would be,
Speaker 1: you know, really happy.
Speaker 3: The wind blowing twenty there is different than normal blowing twenty.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean it's a it's obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: right on the ocean, so it's a pretty stiff breeze
Speaker 1: most of the time. But the way the courses routed,
Speaker 1: you know, you're always changing directions kind of going in
Speaker 1: those triangles, so you just never really get like a
Speaker 1: good beat on the wind. You know, you'll play one
Speaker 1: hole cross and then next hole maybe you're down, and
Speaker 1: then the next hole you're in. So it's just kind
Speaker 1: of all over the place. And you know, you'd think
Speaker 1: it would be so easy because you know, you know
Speaker 1: the oceans just right over there, you know which way
Speaker 1: it's coming. But again, just the way the green complexes
Speaker 1: are and they're so just simply diabolical. You just have
Speaker 1: to execute so perfect. And it really is one of
Speaker 1: those places like if you're a really good player and
Speaker 1: you want to go learn how to execute approach shots,
Speaker 1: it's a really cool place to go and play because
Speaker 1: if you if you're just off a little bit, you know,
Speaker 1: you kind of get punched in the face, which is
Speaker 1: fun to go. It's fun to go kind of learn
Speaker 1: how to play golf out there. It seems to always
Speaker 1: kind of hold its own, especially if the winds up.
Speaker 3: I've urged you to talk about that where you you know,
Speaker 3: almost have to really play golf the right way. Can
Speaker 3: you talk about that a little bit more?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's just a lot of places where
Speaker 1: you can kind of get away with average shots or
Speaker 1: average ball striking or anything even average putting or out
Speaker 1: there it's not a particularly long golf course obviously, and
Speaker 1: it's not a particularly narrow course by any means. You know,
Speaker 1: you can hit it not all over the place, but
Speaker 1: you know there's plenty of room to play out there,
Speaker 1: but really kind of from the fair way in and
Speaker 1: then even around the greens, you just have to do
Speaker 1: the right stuff. And like I said earlier, that might mean,
Speaker 1: you know, playing to the middle of the green with
Speaker 1: a lob wedge, which you don't. You know, it's so
Speaker 1: out of character to not treat a lob wedge like
Speaker 1: a green light. But there's some situations out there that
Speaker 1: if you try and hit a great shot with any
Speaker 1: club and you don't pull it off, you bring like five, six,
Speaker 1: seven into play just because of how hard and tough
Speaker 1: it is around those greens. I mean there's even greens
Speaker 1: out there. There's even greens out there that you can
Speaker 1: hit the green in one, you know, like a par three,
Speaker 1: like thirteen. I mean, you can knock it on that
Speaker 1: green in regulation and like put it off the green
Speaker 1: and make like fives and sixes. So if you don't
Speaker 1: put it in the right spot, you know, you got
Speaker 1: to stay under some of those holes. And if you
Speaker 1: even if you hit an okay shot and it's above
Speaker 1: the hole, you're really gonna have a hard time making pars.
Speaker 3: Do you have any personal experience of just like a
Speaker 3: where you thought you were in a good spot and
Speaker 3: you just end up making a complete mess of it
Speaker 3: out there on a particular hole.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: Thirteen, I've knocked it on the green like ten feet
Speaker 1: and made like five or six putt it off the
Speaker 1: green in the bunker. I mean, there's so many holes
Speaker 1: out there, like what is it six?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Six? I mean you can hit a great shot in
Speaker 1: there and just barely barely miss and it goes in
Speaker 1: the left or right bunker, and you can just play
Speaker 1: ping pong there and just have you know, really hard
Speaker 1: time getting it on the green.
Speaker 3: That's that's a pretty short part four too, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's probably like a like a three
Speaker 1: wood eight iron tight pole. You can kind of force
Speaker 1: one up the left, but if you you know, if
Speaker 1: you don't pull it off, you know you're in a
Speaker 1: tough spot.
Speaker 2: Again.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're there are the par threes out there
Speaker 1: are really really good. I remember at the Pro Scratch
Speaker 1: this year, all I wanted to do, like my whole
Speaker 1: goal was to just hit every par three, you know,
Speaker 1: in regulation, and I almost did it, but I missed
Speaker 1: number like five I think it is, and just short
Speaker 1: left in the bunker, hit a bad shot. But it's
Speaker 1: just one of those courses you just got to execute.
Speaker 1: It's like so simple but so hard because the moment
Speaker 1: you start pressing at that course and trying to make
Speaker 1: it happen or trying to hit close shots, you just
Speaker 1: you know, you can get in really really tough spots
Speaker 1: where then it's impossible to recover, and then you know,
Speaker 1: you get even more overpar.
Speaker 3: So it seems like it's like if you it's a
Speaker 3: course where lets you really get it going, but if
Speaker 3: you're just a fraction off, it's you know, you're gonna
Speaker 3: have a really tough day.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean the first time I played there,
Speaker 1: it was blowing like probably like twenty five, like just
Speaker 1: solid all day. I bet I three putted like eight times.
Speaker 1: I mean I shot like high eighties, like no joke.
Speaker 1: And then I went out there like literally two days
Speaker 1: later in the morning, no wind, and shot like sixty
Speaker 1: two or sixty three, and you're just like, I just
Speaker 1: beat myself by twenty shots. Like at least twenty shots.
Speaker 1: I beat myself by in in the you know, span
Speaker 1: of two days where I didn't feel like I played
Speaker 1: much better or much worse in either round. But that's
Speaker 1: how if you're just off by a little bit out there,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's really really tough.
Speaker 3: You mentioned six and par three thirteen. What are maybe
Speaker 3: a couple other holes that you really like out there?
Speaker 1: And there's so many good ones. Two and eleven, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of up that ridge are really cool holes. I
Speaker 1: love that stretch of three to three and four. Three
Speaker 1: is kind of like a pretty simple dog leg right
Speaker 1: par five that's reachable, and then four is like a
Speaker 1: beast par four. And kind of the saying out there
Speaker 1: is if you play those holes in nine, you know
Speaker 1: that's basically par so whichever one. If you get three
Speaker 1: into the wind, it can be tough, and a five's okay,
Speaker 1: and then you can make four on four. But if
Speaker 1: you get three downwind, you know, it's an easy hole
Speaker 1: to knock it on in two, but then four becomes impossible.
Speaker 1: Like from the new back t I've hit like driver
Speaker 1: three wood, like full wedge. It's just so long. And
Speaker 1: then I really like that stretch of twelve thirteen, fourteen
Speaker 1: fifteen at fourteen fifteen, back to back par fives really
Speaker 1: cool and like I said, the par three's out there
Speaker 1: really special, really tough, just got to hit really good shots.
Speaker 1: But it's kind of a good mix, you know, you
Speaker 1: get some wedges out there, you get a couple holes
Speaker 1: that are long irons, par threes are good and it's
Speaker 1: been cool to see they've done a good job with
Speaker 1: the new tea boxes they've put in over the last
Speaker 1: four or five years for that Walker Cup coming up.
Speaker 1: So it'll be fun to watch these guys play. You know,
Speaker 1: I expect people will play pretty well unless the wind's up,
Speaker 1: and then it'll also kind of depends on where they
Speaker 1: put the pins, because if they get some easier pin locations,
Speaker 1: you know, it can be friendly. But if you get
Speaker 1: some tough ones, you could see some big scores, which
Speaker 1: would be kind of cool too.
Speaker 3: It'll be it will be interesting to see how they
Speaker 3: set it up because usually skins game they're looking for birdies.
Speaker 3: But who knows what they'll do, you know, it.
Speaker 1: Really is though. I mean, honestly, the more I think
Speaker 1: about even if even if there are some easier pins,
Speaker 1: there's not like too many layup like shots out there.
Speaker 1: If that make like not lay up layups like, there's
Speaker 1: not too many like super super easy shots where you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this pin's going to be in a funnel. You know
Speaker 1: they're gonna get it close here. So if guys are
Speaker 1: trying to make birdies, you'll see some big scores, which
Speaker 1: will be cool. That's why that place is so good though.
Speaker 1: You know, you you if you go out and try
Speaker 1: and get it and you pull it off, you can
Speaker 1: hit good shots and make birdies and eagles. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, if you go out and try and
Speaker 1: get it and you don't pull off the shots, you
Speaker 1: can make bogies and doubles, which is nice to see
Speaker 1: that variance.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think that's the most entertaining goth
Speaker 3: because it's asking you, because it's where if you don't
Speaker 3: go for if you don't try the shot, you're not
Speaker 3: guaranteed to have make a par right because you're going
Speaker 3: to have a tough putt if you're twenty five feet away.
Speaker 3: That I think that's the best golf where when you
Speaker 3: try and push it. Ogilvy talks about it all the
Speaker 3: time with Augusta. It's like, it's a really easy course
Speaker 3: to shoot seventy two. It's a really difficult course to
Speaker 3: shoot sixty six. And when you start trying to shoot
Speaker 3: sixty six, that's when you shoot seventy six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally