1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,880 Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a 2 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: cult or a high control group. 3 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power 4 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 2: that you'd like to share. 5 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three 6 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust. 7 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight, or. 8 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Showed us an email at trust Me pod at gmail 9 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: dot com. 10 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 3: Trust Me. 11 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: Trust Me. 12 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 2: I'm like a swat person. 13 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 3: I've never lied to you. I've never had a live. 14 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers, don't. 15 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 4: Welcome to trust Me. 16 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 2: The podcast about cold and extreme belief and manipulation from 17 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: two thirty something year old juvenile delinquents who have. 18 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 4: Actually experienced it. I am Lola Blanc and I am 19 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 4: Megan Elizabeth. 20 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 2: Today our guest is Yoni Shereira, friend of the show 21 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 2: and survivor of the Family Foundation School, which was a 22 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: troubled teen sobriety school that became notorious for how many 23 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: of its former students died after going through the program. 24 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 2: In part one today, he's going to talk about what 25 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: he was like as a teenager, how he was genuinely 26 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: out of control when it came to drugs and alcohol, 27 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 2: and why his parents believed the school was the best 28 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: option to help him. 29 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: He'll tell us about the religious undertones of the group, 30 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: how the students were separated into groups they called families, 31 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: the culture of constant fear and snitching, and why he 32 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: thinks so many kids died. Plus next week we'll talk 33 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: about some of the harrowing punishments the kids experienced and 34 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: what it felt like to finally leave. That's right. 35 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 2: This was such a wild interview for unrelated reasons to 36 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,559 Speaker 2: the content, just because I've known Yoni from this area 37 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 2: of my life, and you know Yoni from that area 38 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 2: of your life. And then I found out that he's 39 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 2: dating this person I know from this other area of Like, 40 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 2: this just was worlds colliding with this interview. This is 41 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 2: not relevant to our listeners, but it was cool. 42 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: It was cool, and his story is really insane. 43 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 4: It is really insane. 44 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: I had no idea that any of this was in 45 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: his history, and it's a very compelling story and I 46 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 2: think y'all will like it. 47 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 4: So stay tuned. 48 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 2: And before we hear it, Megan, can you tell me 49 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: your cultiest thing of the week. 50 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: I can. Last night I watched the new Netflix release 51 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: call who killed John Bennet Ramsey and I have never 52 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: seen well Number one, it's horrible. Don't watch it if 53 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: you ever want to sleep again in your entire life, 54 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: because it's so terrifying in that poor little girl. But 55 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: from a broader perspective, it really is so culty and 56 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to give too many things away, but 57 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: you really see this like court of public opinion, pressure leaders. 58 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: At the midpoint, a new character comes in who's kind 59 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: of the anti cult of it all, and it's just 60 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: a fascinating, fascinating watch from the perspective of cults in 61 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: my opinion. 62 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 2: M Yeah, yeah, I like, as you know, I miss 63 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 2: a lot of true crime dogs because I just like, 64 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 2: for whatever reason. 65 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 4: You know, don't I don't want that much of it 66 00:02:58,560 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 4: in my head all the time. 67 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, but this one does seem super super interesting. I'm 68 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: just like, I'm endlessly fascinated by the ways that reactions 69 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 2: to genuine injustices can can escalate themselves and themselves become 70 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 2: a problem. 71 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 3: Yeah. 72 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: That makes me the people who are angry about this 73 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: child dying. 74 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, is that what you're kind of talking 75 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: about totally? Yeahh I just find that endlessly fascinating, and 76 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: there's so many. Yeah, I'm curious to watch for sure, And. 77 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: You know there are people that are bad guys, probably, 78 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: but you kind of empathize with them. You can tell 79 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: everybody's trying to do the right thing. Everybody thinks they 80 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: have the hmm. It's just really fascinating. So anyway, I 81 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: can't wait for you to watch it and discuss it. 82 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: But again, like all the trigger warnings in the world, 83 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: because I did not get any sleep last night, nor 84 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: will I ever again, what about you, what's the colziest 85 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: thing that happened to you this week? 86 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: I just was sort of doing a little dive into 87 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: till see Gabbard's connection to her cold twitch. I had 88 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 2: seen headlines about and there's always I feel like I 89 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: always see sensational headlines about hupl's connections to cold and cults, 90 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: and it's usually like kind of flimsy, but it is 91 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 2: actually interesting. So for anyone who doesn't know who told 92 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 2: Sy Gabbart is she's a politician from Hawaii who rose 93 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: to like national prominence when she ran for president actually 94 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: as a Democrat in twenty twenty. She ended up switching sides. 95 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: Now she's a full TRUMPISA, and she has been named 96 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 2: as the Director of National Intelligence for this new upcoming term. So, 97 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,679 Speaker 2: you know, I dislike a lot of this woman's beliefs, 98 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: but it's interesting because a lot of them have parallels 99 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 2: to this group that she has grown up with and 100 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: been connected to. So they are called the Science of 101 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 2: Identity Foundation, and this man founded it in the sixties, 102 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: I believe, or in maybe the seventies. In the seventies, 103 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 2: he was sort of like an offshoot of the hay Krishnaz. 104 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 4: This white guy is like, actually, I'm the guru and weird. 105 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 2: You know, the different people have come forward who were 106 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: in the group or like her aunt has come like people, 107 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 2: different people have talked about it. She's been open about 108 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 2: the fact that Chris Butler, this man this is this 109 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: man's name is her like spiritual guide and guru. But 110 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: when you actually like learn about his like who he 111 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: is in this group, it's kind of he is like 112 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 2: the ultimate leader. He talks to God or like he 113 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 2: is the ultimate authority on all things. You don't really 114 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 2: do anything that he doesn't want you to do. He's 115 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 2: like a helladermophobe, extremely homophobic, extremely anti Islamic. So another 116 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 2: thing that I thought was interesting was that her entire 117 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it says people would feed him regularly, tend 118 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: to his laundry. Food couldn't be late, food had to 119 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 2: be hot. He'd swear at you if you would get 120 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 2: it wrong. If there was an article of clothing you 121 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 2: get that he doesn't use, like that's like sacred. 122 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 4: She has been in it since she was a kid. 123 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: When Tolsy Gabbard ran for president in twenty twenty, her 124 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 2: aunt said, basically her entire campaign staff were members of 125 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: this group. And there are people that have said, there's 126 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 2: a quote from someone saying, we're told his perspective and 127 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: what he says is one hundred percent accurate. So if 128 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 2: that's skewed, then whatever you listen to from him is 129 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 2: also going to be skewed. And basically the people are saying, like, 130 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 2: she would not like have this position in politics, if 131 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 2: he didn't want her to have this position in politics, 132 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 2: And it's this like it's kind of a goal of 133 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: his to have his people like in governments. So it 134 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 2: is really incredible how many like religious groups run by 135 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: sketchy ass leaders are like, all right, let's get y'all 136 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 2: into the government totally and I totally understand how at 137 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 2: least conspiracy theories, although I do not think it means 138 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 2: that Tolsi Gabbard is a part of a like shadowy 139 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 2: cult network. I think that would be silly, but it 140 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 2: does seem like she had that. They definitely she was. 141 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: On a shadowy cult, but not in a shadowy cult 142 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: network network. Yeah. 143 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're just like a bunch of random cults 144 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 2: that happen to have their opinion. 145 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: Also, so many white people men starting cults in Hawaii. 146 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: It's never ceases to amaze me. 147 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,799 Speaker 2: So it is incredible. Also, I just have to add 148 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 2: his house was covered in tinfoil to keep out terms. 149 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 2: So that's super normal and sounds really effective too. 150 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 4: That's super science space. 151 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: That is new. 152 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 4: So okay, well should we talk to Yoni. 153 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: Let's talk to Yannie. 154 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 2: Welcome Yoanie Shreira to trust me in person. Thank you 155 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 2: for being with us today. 156 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 3: Of course, thanks for having me. 157 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 2: It's so exciting to have you. We both know you 158 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 2: in real life separately for unrelated reasons, oddly, and now 159 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: we get to talk to you about a piece of 160 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 2: your life that is maybe a little bit less fun 161 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 2: than the reasons that we know you, Yeah, start us 162 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: in your teen years? What kind of kid were you? 163 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: What was going on in your life before all this began. 164 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 3: I usually say I was pretty much into everything besides fighting. 165 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 3: I was like not a fighting kid. I was a 166 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 3: pacifist who just loved to get fucked up, But wasn't 167 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 3: such a pacifist that I wouldn't like steal from you 168 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 3: even if you were my friend, which that was the 169 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 3: first kind of like significant trouble I got into. I 170 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 3: got kicked out of school for stealing. And Yeah, it 171 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 3: was just like a lot of drinking and getting high 172 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 3: and stealing and running away, Like I would go missing 173 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 3: for a number of days, which scared my parents, especially 174 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 3: going missing in La. Oh you were in La Yeah, 175 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 3: I grew up here. Yeah, so it was kind of 176 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 3: like a lot of that stuff. 177 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 4: Were your parents religious at all? 178 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 3: What was your not religious? Religious? 179 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 2: And when it was just kind of like regular discipline 180 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 2: isn't working, we got to like get only under control. 181 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean I also had two parents that were 182 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 3: very different in regards to like their parenting style, Like 183 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 3: my dad was super passive and my mom was like 184 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 3: like my mom I would describe as probably like the 185 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 3: most anxious person I know, and that's saying a lot 186 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 3: because I know a lot of anxious people, but like 187 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 3: she is like insanely anxious, and I think she kind 188 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 3: of had somewhat unstable childhood and so she like always 189 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 3: she like tried to micromanage as much as possible. 190 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 4: Did you ever get arrested or anything? 191 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 3: Actually I only got arrested once in sobriety for something 192 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 3: very uncool. There were these projects by my old place 193 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 3: in Brooklyn, and we had no air conditioning, no windows, 194 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 3: we had like nothing, like it was just like a 195 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 3: brick box that we lived in, and we tried to 196 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 3: like hop the fence. There was like this public pool 197 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 3: in the center of these projects, and we got arrested 198 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 3: at like too. 199 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 4: Were going to a pool. 200 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, So. 201 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: The rebellious days, it's always so interesting to me because 202 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: I was not raised in a big city, and I 203 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: know that this happens in small towns and whatever, but 204 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: I wasn't even introduced to alcohol clubs like seventeen, and 205 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: so like when I hear about little kids getting into 206 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: this level of them as chief, I'm like, damn, that's 207 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: so intense, Like my brain would have broken immediately to 208 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: be on drugs. 209 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 2: When I was in high school, I was a good 210 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 2: I mean I've still never drank guess you know, yeah, 211 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 2: but I would hang around people who would, and I. 212 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 4: Thought it was so cool. 213 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 3: I've ever drank. 214 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 4: No, I've never drank. 215 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 3: Wow, Yeah, that's amazing. 216 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 4: I mean it's weird. 217 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was probably brother Oka, but that wasn't why 218 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: it was started in Mormonism. And then I just I 219 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 2: left Mormonism and I was like I don't know, yeah, 220 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 2: why this doesn't feel like a thing that I I'll do. 221 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 2: And now it's like so built up because I'm like 222 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 2: I'd like to try wine, but now it's so built 223 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 2: up that it feels like it's got to be like 224 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 2: the perfect occasion, which has never happened because I haven't 225 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:48,839 Speaker 2: gotten into sundance yet. 226 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: So but like even yeah, even like I was like 227 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: sixteen and reading Ya novels where I was like, I 228 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 1: can't wait till I get my first French kids. I 229 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: don't know, I'm just saying. I was like, it's impressive 230 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: to me in a bad way and we might have 231 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: to take this part out, but like, wow, a bad boy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 232 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: it's like kind of cool. 233 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 4: I would have also thought that, yeah, I loved it. 234 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 3: Well, I think like I don't know why, but I 235 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 3: always even like as a first of all, the first 236 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 3: time I drank, it was like one of those things 237 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 3: where I didn't It wasn't like I was going around 238 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 3: being like I can't wait to drink. It was literally 239 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 3: like it was given to me at a bar mitzvah 240 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 3: after party one time, damn, and which like that is 241 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 3: not regular. Most people like don't have bar mitzvah after parties. 242 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 3: But my best friend Hanky, his brother, Yeah, his brother, 243 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 3: like we were in private school, like going from seventh 244 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 3: to eighth grade, and his brother was like like going 245 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 3: in his senior year at the local public school, and 246 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 3: he had like a bunch of his friends over one 247 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 3: night and after his brother, Hanky's bar mitzvah, and his 248 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 3: brother got to invite like two or three of his friends, 249 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 3: and so I got to go and they literally just 250 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 3: like fed us drinks all night, and I got like 251 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 3: blacked out, and it was like really like one of 252 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 3: those things where it's like WHOA, Like what a shame? 253 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 3: I didn't do this sooner? And I'm gonna do this 254 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 3: like every day for the rest of my life. 255 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 4: But I felt after blacking out. 256 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 3: Okay, that night, I just had a lot of fun. 257 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 3: But then like a few days later, we smoked weed 258 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 3: for the first time, okay, and that was like the 259 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 3: first time I was like coherent. So that was the 260 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 3: first time I was like I'm gonna do. 261 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: This, like right right right, yeah, okay. And your parents 262 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 2: were just like oh God, and. 263 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: Your mom, I mean, what a nightmare. It's like her 264 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: worst dream. 265 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 3: Oh totally yeah. And I think like I didn't have 266 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 3: like the foresight of being like, oh, if I'm like 267 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 3: a little like more chill about this, I can probably 268 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 3: get away with more. I just was like, I don't know, rebellious, 269 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 3: and so I just got into trouble immediately that first night, 270 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 3: they like shaved off my eyebrow, and I remember my 271 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 3: mom picked me up and she like started sobbing. Oh, now, 272 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 3: how are you gonna show up to all these other 273 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 3: bar mits? Was you have no eyebrow? It was very 274 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 3: much like the optics of everything. 275 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: That's so, I mean, that's I love where her priorities are. 276 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: How are you going to go to the BARMT says, So. 277 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 2: How old were you when they were like, all right, 278 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 2: we need to take some real action. 279 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 3: The first time I ever got sent to an outpatient, 280 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 3: I was fourteen, which was like ridiculous, Like, in hindsight, 281 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 3: that was pretty ridiculous. 282 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 4: And it also an outpatient like sobriety okay. 283 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 3: Like and like at that point, I pretty much had 284 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 3: no friends that like drank or got high like I did, 285 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 3: so I didn't have It was like a lot of 286 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 3: doing it by myself. And then going to that outpatient 287 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 3: was the first time I met people that, you know, 288 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 3: like to get fucked up like I did, and. 289 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: So it always like it kind of makes it worse. 290 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh totally yeah, Like. 291 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: Oh damn, you have access to even more drugs. 292 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go. That was like where I got my 293 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 3: drug dealer. Moving forward, like yeah, yeah, Like I remember 294 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 3: I brought one of my friends from that rehab to 295 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 3: like my private school Halloween party and like every parent 296 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 3: was like totally freaked out by him. Wow. It was 297 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 3: just like, yeah, it just introduced me to people that 298 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 3: I never would have or not never, but I just 299 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 3: at that point have interacted with Yeah. 300 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: And so at what point does the Family Foundation school 301 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 2: seem like the best option to your parents? 302 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 3: So then I'd gotten kicked out of a school, and 303 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 3: then I went to a new school and I tried 304 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 3: to kind of like get my shit together because I 305 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 3: also at that time got a girlfriend who was like 306 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 3: kind of like straight laced or whatever, and you know, 307 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 3: she like I don't know. I was like, Oh, I 308 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 3: want to like do better, you know, and so I'm going. 309 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: To change for you. 310 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 3: I was like fifteen, yeah, and ready to have a 311 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 3: whole new me, and I like tried to join the 312 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 3: football team and stuff like that. Oh do the whole 313 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 3: like straight lace person thing. And I think it like 314 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 3: literally lasted three weeks and then I kind of not 315 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 3: long after that, dropped out of school. And then my 316 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 3: parents started looking for places to send me. 317 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 4: And how old were you at that point? 318 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 3: It was like right before I turned sixteen? 319 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: Okay, so how did they even find the school because 320 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: you're in Los Angeles and the school is across the country. 321 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 4: Where was it? 322 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 3: It was in the cat Skills in Upsey, New York. 323 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, So how did they even come in 324 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: contact with us? Through someone's bar us far or. 325 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 3: What actually close? Through a rabbi? 326 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: Okay, this rabbit rabbi is like I know a place. 327 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And what's funny is my parents, Like my 328 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 3: parents are the most like culturally Jewish people in the world, 329 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 3: but like not religious at all, Like my dad. I 330 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 3: just had dinner with my dad last night, and for 331 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 3: like the fifth dinner in a row, he made it 332 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 3: a point to talk to me about how much he 333 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 3: doesn't believe in God. But uh, yeah, their dad. Yeah, yeah. 334 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 3: They wanted to send me to a place in la 335 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 3: that was like a Jewish recovery program or something, but 336 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 3: you had to be eighteen to go. And the rabbi 337 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 3: of that place, I guess, had like knew someone that 338 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 3: worked at the like was like an administrative person at 339 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 3: the school or something, and so he was the one 340 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 3: who recommended it. 341 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: Okay, And what did you know about the school going 342 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: into it? 343 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 3: I literally knew nothing. 344 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: They're just like, you're going to move to a new school, 345 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: did you? Yeah? 346 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 4: Did you? Did you or did you have the kidnap experience? Yeah? 347 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 3: How did you? So? I didn't have the kidnap experience. 348 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 3: The way that they got me there was so at 349 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 3: that point my mom and I were my I mean, 350 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 3: my dad and I weren't close, but my dad and 351 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 3: I didn't really like fight much. Uh, and my mom 352 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 3: and I like could not be around each other and 353 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 3: like not fight, even to the point where at one 354 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 3: point my dad said like, hey, what if you and 355 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 3: I like moved somewhere for a while. And they had 356 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 3: phrased it as like, how would you feel about going 357 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 3: to a boarding school? And when I was in that 358 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: outpatient program, there was a girl that I knew there 359 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 3: that had gone to a boarding school in Vermont, and 360 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 3: she like talked about it like it was the best 361 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 3: thing in the world. Like she was like, Oh, we 362 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 3: would just go into the woods and do mushrooms all 363 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 3: day and like it was the shit. If you could 364 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,239 Speaker 3: ever go to a boarding school, you should go. And 365 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 3: I was like a year or two before. Yeah, And 366 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 3: I was like when they mentioned boarding school, I was like, oh, 367 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 3: it sounds pretty sick. I get to like not be 368 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 3: around them at all and just like get fucked up. 369 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, just like my parents out in the Yeah. 370 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. And so I said I'll go if you could 371 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 3: smoke cigarettes and if there are girls there, like that 372 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 3: was my only criteria, and they were like, oh, yeah, sure, yeah, 373 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 3: you definitely can. And so my dad took me. They 374 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 3: were like, oh, we found a place in New York 375 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,959 Speaker 3: and I just thought like New York City or something. 376 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 3: And we got there, and I mean at this point 377 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 3: in my life, I was like truly like fucked up. 378 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 3: Every moment I was like awake. And so we got 379 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 3: to New York. I was like fucked up on the plane. 380 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 3: When we landed, I was like just residually fucked up. 381 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 3: Like I was just like so hungover that Like I 382 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 3: remember we got in the rental car and I like 383 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 3: woke up like three hours later and we were driving 384 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 3: down the driveway and I was like looked around and 385 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 3: I was like, oh, this is not New York City. 386 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 3: But that was how like I got there. 387 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 1: Paint the picture of what you wake up to, what 388 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: your drive into, what does it look like? 389 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 3: It was actually like insanely beautiful. It was like in 390 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 3: this valley in upstate New York, and I got there 391 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 3: at the end of fall, and it was like incredibly picturesque, 392 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 3: like uh, like the foliage the valley there was like 393 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 3: a little like pond or whatever. It was really beautiful. 394 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 3: But I had no I like truly was like so hungover. 395 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 3: I just recognized like this is I think the only 396 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 3: thing I felt in that moment was like this is 397 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:38,719 Speaker 3: unfamiliar and it's really gray. And we got in and 398 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 3: there's this guy Bob who looked like a clown, like 399 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 3: actually like he looked like he had this really like 400 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 3: bulbous nose that was red and like the reddest face 401 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 3: and he wouldn't stop smiling for. 402 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: Yeah. 403 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, he was really weird. And he was like all right, 404 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 3: let's let's do your intake and and then my dad 405 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,239 Speaker 3: started crying and I remember being like really embarrassed that 406 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 3: he was crying. He was crying and he went to 407 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 3: give me a hug, and I was just like yeah, okay, 408 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 3: bye uh and I went into the like locker room area, 409 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 3: and then I realized like, oh, this. 410 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: Is like not I'm not going to be horseback, right. 411 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. There was like the strip search thing and 412 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 3: the life shampoo and then like you know, checking all 413 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 3: your ship and then they give you someone called something 414 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 3: called like a buddy, which is like like a more 415 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 3: senior person there who just like takes you around like 416 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 3: you're not allowed to be by yourself there for the 417 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 3: first like two months two months. Yeah, whoa like even 418 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 3: to the point it's called like shadow to the point 419 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 3: where like if you go to the bathroom, they go 420 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 3: in with you. 421 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 2: Oh no, oh my god. So this is like a prison, 422 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 2: so they're strip searching you. 423 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 3: They strip search you. Yeah. And I just remember the 424 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 3: first moment where it really kind of started to sink 425 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 3: in was we were walking out of the out of 426 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 3: the locker room and the guy who is my buddy 427 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 3: was like kind of going through this list of rules 428 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 3: and I literally couldn't tell you a word he said. 429 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 3: And then he said yeah, and it's an eighteen month 430 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 3: minimum program. And I was like, wait would you say? 431 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 3: And he's like, oh, yeah, it's like an eighteen month 432 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 3: minimum program. And it like literally felt like someone like 433 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,959 Speaker 3: kicked me in the stomach. Oh my god. And I 434 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 3: was like, I think I was shocked then. And then 435 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 3: for like the rest of the week, I was like, 436 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 3: all right, don't cry in public. Don't cry in public. 437 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: I mean, as somebody who's had their own really fun 438 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: relationship with drugs and alcohol, are you now detoxing off 439 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: of this, like by yourself no help or are you okay? 440 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 1: Like what does that look like? 441 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 3: At that point, I hadn't really been like I wasn't 442 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 3: I mean, I was drinking every day, but I wasn't 443 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 3: doing any hard drugs at that point in my life. 444 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 3: And I think I was just like so like shocked 445 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 3: by being there that I honestly I couldn't even tell 446 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 3: you like what I was like physically feeling at all. 447 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 3: Like I think I was just like so stunned and 448 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 3: just like depressed. 449 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: But there was no like protocol of were giving you 450 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: some medicine or like helping this happen. 451 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 4: Like it's not a legitimate at that place now, wow. 452 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 3: And there were occasionally kids that were there. I mean 453 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 3: almost everybody there had like substance abuse issues, and like 454 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 3: you know, we're there for like drinking or doing coke 455 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 3: or something like that. But occasionally there'd be someone there 456 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 3: that was maybe detoxing off of something that would be 457 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 3: like more dangerous. 458 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 459 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 3: Usually they would actually just leave, Like they would get 460 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 3: there and they'd be like, oh, this person's like physical detoxes, 461 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 3: you know, more dangerous than we can really handle. And 462 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 3: then they'll get some sense of well. 463 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 4: That's I guess that's something. 464 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, And they were kidnapping a lot of these people, 465 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: can you just say, yeah, yeah, a little bit about that. 466 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, they had like an escort program where they would 467 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 3: come and have like two or three guys, depending on 468 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 3: how big you were, pick you up like in the middle. 469 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: Of the night, like in just that's insane. 470 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, like literally like come in your room at like 471 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 3: three in the morning and just your parents would already 472 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 3: pack your bags and so it was just like one 473 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 3: of those things where it's like we're just ready to go. 474 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 3: It's crazy. 475 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 2: How many of these schools did that, like just literally yeah, 476 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 2: like maybe violently or at least traumatically kidnapping kids in 477 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 2: the middle of the night. 478 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,479 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's so scary. 479 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 3: One of my best friends, they're actually got almost every time, 480 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 3: you know, you would just like successful or you know, 481 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 3: quote unquote successfully get escorted there. But I had a 482 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 3: friend that was coming from Florida who got there like 483 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 3: two months after I did, and he this is like 484 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 3: unheard of, this like never would happen, but he got escorted. 485 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 3: They like took him in the middle of the night 486 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 3: and they went to the airport in like Miami or 487 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 3: whatever to get on the plane to fly to New York. 488 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 3: And in the airport, he like very smartly, was like 489 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 3: these people aren't my parents, they're kidnapping me, and like 490 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 3: made this huge scene, and you know, like the airport 491 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 3: police were like, hey, you like what's going on, and 492 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 3: they like showed them there's like paperwork that they have 493 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,479 Speaker 3: to prove that, you know, like you're getting escorted or whatever, 494 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 3: and they were like it doesn't matter, Like we can't 495 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 3: have this scene happening here. You have to leave. And 496 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 3: so the escorts didn't know what to do, so they 497 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 3: just like dropped him back off like at his parents' house. 498 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: Wow wow. So but he eventually got there, they got him. 499 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, like two or three months later they got him, 500 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,959 Speaker 3: and he just like walked back in the house and 501 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 3: like cursed his parents it's out, and then just went 502 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 3: back in his room and kept getting fucked up and 503 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 3: they didn't know what to do. And then when he 504 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 3: finally got escorted, like two or three months later, they 505 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 3: drove him the whole way. 506 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 4: I was gonna ask, Yeah, that's a that's a situation. 507 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 508 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 2: So once you were kind of in there, like what 509 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 2: was the first of all physically what was happening on 510 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 2: the property, and then like what were the structure of 511 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 2: the days. 512 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 3: So you get there and because it's an adolescent program, 513 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 3: you're in school and it's like super structured. You like 514 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 3: wake up at six am. You have like a minute 515 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 3: to get out of bed. You have like twenty minutes 516 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 3: to get ready, and then you go up to chapel 517 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 3: because it was somewhat you know, religious based or whatever. 518 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 3: And then after chapel you go down and a breakfast 519 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 3: and then you're pretty much in school from like eight 520 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 3: am to like six pm or something. Yeah, so yeah, 521 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 3: you're either in classes, but it's also like like these 522 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 3: like work blocks or like peppered in, so like you'll 523 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 3: you know, go to math class and then for period 524 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 3: two you have laundry and you'll be you know, doing 525 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 3: everyone's laundry, and then you'll go to like history and 526 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 3: it's a really long day. Yeah, it was crazy. And 527 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 3: then you finish that, you go to dinner and then 528 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 3: there's like an hour of work study or study hall 529 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 3: whatever's right, and then you pray again and then you 530 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 3: go to sleep. 531 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 4: So this is a Christian program, right, They. 532 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 3: Like claimed they were non religious, but it was pretty Christian. 533 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 3: I mean they had like a statue of like state 534 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 3: Saint Francis in the front, and like you know a 535 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 3: whole chapel on the campus and whatever. 536 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: So I was reading they like separate this might not 537 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: be real. But they separate you guys into groups of 538 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: smaller called families called families. This is where it starts 539 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: getting even more culsy. Yeah, called families, And what is 540 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: that exactly? 541 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, so there are eight families and you get put 542 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 3: in these groups. It's kind of just random. It's like 543 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 3: what family has less than the others when you get 544 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 3: there and they're a bunch of staff. And then there 545 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 3: are two family leaders always like male and female, who 546 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,479 Speaker 3: are like the head of your group. And you know, 547 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 3: when you're in school, you like mingle with everybody, and 548 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 3: you know, everybody's kind of like you know, dispersed in 549 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 3: the classes like together. But for all of the like 550 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 3: recreational stuff for meals or whatever, you're with your families. 551 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 3: And every meal they have something called table topics where 552 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 3: they will like get people up in front of the 553 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 3: family during the meal and then pretty much like yell 554 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 3: at them for something they're doing wrong. All of like 555 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,719 Speaker 3: your a lot of your reprimanding and like trouble you 556 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 3: get into is like in the confines of your family, Like. 557 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,719 Speaker 4: And how big were the families. 558 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 3: When I was there, it was like forty kids and 559 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 3: probably like ten or twelve staff members. Wow, for the 560 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:25,719 Speaker 3: most part, it's about two or three staff members in 561 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 3: the family at like a given time, okay, because they're 562 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 3: not all like working the same day. 563 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: Got you? Got you? 564 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 2: So was there like incentive to find things about your 565 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 2: fellow family members that they were doing wrong? 566 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, that was like a huge part of snitching 567 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 3: was huge. 568 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 4: What is it with these places? 569 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: Okay? 570 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 3: I think I think that's like maybe the easiest way 571 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 3: to brainwash. You know. It's like because at a certain 572 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 3: I think I I think people especially like you know, 573 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 3: because a lot of the times thatdynamic is like if 574 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 3: you're newer, you kind of fucking like hate the older 575 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 3: you know, kids there, because they're the ones like telling 576 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,959 Speaker 3: you what to do. A lot of the time. I 577 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 3: think I'm like a pretty non confrontational person, so I 578 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 3: like really hated that aspect of it. So, you know, 579 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 3: like if I was ever in a position where i'd 580 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 3: like see like a newer person or like a kid 581 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 3: who was being defiant like doing some shit, I'd usually 582 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 3: just kind of be like, hey, come on, like don't 583 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 3: put me in the position where I have to like 584 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 3: tell you what to do. Like, let's just like keep 585 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 3: our head down and just get the fuck out of 586 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 3: here or whatever. So that was kind of like my technique. 587 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 3: But yeah, it was a lot of like a lot 588 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,719 Speaker 3: of the times, the what they would get you up 589 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 3: about for these table topics, it would be kind of 590 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 3: like push to the staff from kids there, like oh 591 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 3: I saw him doing. 592 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 4: X, Y or Z, and what kind of stuff would 593 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 4: it be any. 594 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 3: Like he's not paying at time, mentioning class, he's flirting. 595 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 3: You'd even get in trouble for masturbating, Like if they 596 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 3: found out you masturbated, they'd. 597 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: Oh god, God, So they want an entire population of 598 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: teenage people not to not to mansturbate. 599 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. Cool, I've literally never had a wet dream until 600 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 3: I got there. I'm sure like it was just like 601 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 3: full on, like sexually shut this shit down. That's wild. 602 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 3: And then and then you get to a point where 603 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 3: you're so like brainwashed that if you masturbate, you will 604 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 3: tell on yourself. 605 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: Okay, we have to figure out how we get from 606 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: where you started there, Like, can you go back to 607 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: when you said snitching is probably one of the easiest 608 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: ways to brainwash people. What do you mean by that? Like, 609 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: because you're starting to give over your authority and not 610 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: have connections with other people. 611 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 3: Well, I think you, like you don't incentivize snitching. You 612 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 3: what's the opposite decentivized. I don't know what you You 613 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 3: pretty much say like, we are going to take shit 614 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 3: away from you unless we see you like participating in 615 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 3: our program quote unquote, you. 616 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,479 Speaker 1: Know participation means snitching. 617 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they don't like say it like that, 618 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 3: but it's like, why are you not holding this person accountable? 619 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 3: You know, like and then they'll start, you know, and 620 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 3: it's like small shit there goes a long way because 621 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 3: there's not like a lot of good shit. So it's 622 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 3: like you can't have dessert on Saturday, which is like 623 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 3: the night you get dessert, or like you can't call 624 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 3: your parents anymore. You get like one ten minute call 625 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 3: a week with your parents, and there's some there's a 626 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 3: staff member that just sits right next to you and 627 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 3: to listen to what you're saying, Oh my god, because 628 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 3: you know, they don't want you being like, hey, this 629 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 3: is really fucked up this place. Yeah, so you know, 630 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 3: or if you have like a family visit or they'll 631 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 3: take away you know, you being able to get mail 632 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 3: from your family or whatever. 633 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, I mean it seems to me that 634 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 2: it would create a culture of constant fear, which, as 635 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 2: we know, keeps people controlled, no connecting and exactly and 636 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 2: isolated from each other. So you can't like band together 637 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 2: and demand better if you're all constantly headed against Yeah, exactly. 638 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:14,719 Speaker 3: Oh totally. 639 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 2: WHOA, I want to go back a little bit if 640 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 2: you don't mind. I don't mind because I I know 641 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 2: everybody else because we kind of glossed over that you 642 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 2: would be doing work in between classes. 643 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 4: What would that look like and how intensive. 644 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 3: It was more like chores but uh where you know, 645 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 3: like once or twice a week you'd have a laundry 646 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 3: period and then you'd have like a kitchen period where 647 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 3: you'd either be like preparing meals or like cleaning up 648 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 3: after meals or whatever. The only time where it was 649 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 3: kind of used as a as a punishment is if 650 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 3: and this was kind of one of their you know, 651 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 3: like their like last ditch effort sanctions they called it, uh, 652 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 3: which were pretty much just like punishments they would give out. 653 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 3: Was something called work sanction, So like if you kind 654 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 3: of were getting in trouble for a while and like 655 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 3: weren't changing according to their liking. They would put you 656 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 3: on this thing called work sanction, and you would stop 657 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 3: going this school and work instead, And that was like 658 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 3: much more like, you know, that was much more geared 659 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 3: to punishment. So like I was on work sanction twice, 660 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 3: like once in the winter and once in the summer. 661 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 3: So like in the winter, it would be like, we're 662 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 3: going to give you tasks to do that like need 663 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 3: to be done. But like if the tasks are finished, 664 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 3: it's not like all right, now you get to chill. 665 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 3: Like it would literally be like all right, now, go 666 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 3: into that field and just like shovel paths in the 667 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 3: snow like to nowhere, you know, or like carry these 668 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 3: buckets of rock up and down the hill or gravel, 669 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 3: you know, up and down the hill. 670 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: Did you feel like you deserved any of those? 671 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 3: I definitely felt bad about what I was doing to 672 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 3: my parents, you know, Like I don't think my mom 673 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 3: was like the best mom, but I don't think she 674 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 3: deserved like the shit that I put her through. I 675 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 3: also think that they were just really bad at having 676 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 3: a relationship with their kids, you know, so I think 677 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 3: they obviously could have you know, I think I think 678 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 3: if I was a parent and my child was having 679 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 3: a hard time. I would probably try to talk to them. 680 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 3: I'd probably try to and hope that I had a 681 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 3: relationship with them before they started to kind of like 682 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 3: go off the rails. But that wasn't really like my 683 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 3: experience with my mom, you know, so, But yeah, I 684 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 3: mean I knew I was, like I didn't feel like 685 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 3: I can't believe that somebody would send me here. I 686 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 3: think I recognized like my parents, I'm sure don't know 687 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 3: how bad it is, and like it was unsustainable like 688 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 3: what I was doing, and honestly, like I was, I 689 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 3: really was like living so reckless that I think if 690 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 3: I didn't get sent there, I probably probably something serious 691 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 3: would have happened, either in terms of like getting arrested 692 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,760 Speaker 3: or like dying or something. 693 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 2: M Yeah, we've talked a little bit about rehabs in 694 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 2: this country and how there's no real standardization, so like 695 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 2: somebody can be desperately in need of rehab, but they 696 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 2: get sent somewhere that's like not evidence based, like abusive 697 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 2: for profit, like it is unfortunately a population that gets 698 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 2: exploited quite a bit. Yeah, you were in need, but 699 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 2: like you probably needed like legitimate program. 700 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 3: And I think I think with the adolescent wants too, 701 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 3: because I don't think insurance covers adolescent treatment or at 702 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 3: least like I wasn't aware of any. And so like 703 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 3: all of these like institutions were like for profit and 704 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 3: sometimes like the state would have a budget to help 705 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 3: like kids like in need, and so like some of 706 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 3: the kids there, like you know, were lower income and 707 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 3: their parents wouldn't be able to afford something like that, 708 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 3: but the state would send them there instead of like 709 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,800 Speaker 3: sending them the juvie or something like if they happened 710 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 3: to have like be in a school, you know, in 711 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 3: a school district with like a budget to do that 712 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 3: or something. 713 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: I mean, what's coming up just super quickly is that 714 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,839 Speaker 1: I don't know your background, but it sounds a little 715 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: bit like it was a little i don't know, like privileged. 716 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: Is that fair to say you're not okay? And so 717 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: now you're suddenly in a completely different world? Yeah, what 718 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: does that feel like? 719 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 3: I mean, I'd never really done chores before that, but 720 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 3: it didn't feel for sure privileged background. But it didn't 721 00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 3: feel like now I'm in a unprivileged background or like 722 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 3: that background was so privileged. It honestly just felt like 723 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 3: I was able to do everything I wanted to do, 724 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 3: and now people are telling me what to do. 725 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 2: Right, How did you feel about the other kids in 726 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 2: your family and beyond. 727 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it kind of does become a family 728 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 3: of sorts. Like it's like you like, go there, you 729 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 3: have this experience that really nobody can relate to, and 730 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,879 Speaker 3: when you get out, you really realize how institutionalized you are. 731 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 3: Like I was so fucking institutioned, like to the point 732 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 3: where it probably took like three or four years before 733 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 3: I even realized that that place was fucked up, like seriously, 734 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 3: Like I left there and I was like fully, like 735 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 3: I fully defended that place. Yeah, And it wasn't until 736 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 3: I was in a relationship with my first like longtime 737 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 3: partner where she was like, hey, that place was really 738 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 3: fucked up, and I was like really uh and then 739 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 3: and then there was just like a bunch of shit. 740 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 3: And then at that point I was sober and it 741 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 3: was kind of it was clear that there was more 742 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 3: help that I needed, and so I started going to therapy. 743 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 3: And that therapist also kind of simultaneously was like that 744 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 3: like she would like I would tell her thing and 745 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 3: she's like a very emotional person. She's like kind of 746 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 3: an alternative type there, you know, she's like a somatic 747 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 3: therapist or whatever. And so she would like sometimes we 748 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 3: be talking and she'd like start crying, and I'd be like, 749 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 3: why are you crying? I also was so emotionally shut down. 750 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 3: I was like, why the fuck are you crying? It's gross? 751 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: How did they get you to this place where you 752 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,839 Speaker 1: were fully in not even realizing it as a cult, 753 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: defending it? Like how long did that take? 754 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 3: I think you? I think different people have different experiences. 755 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 3: I will say there are a bunch of kids that 756 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 3: went there that didn't fully buy in. And I wouldn't 757 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 3: say I fully bought in, like I said, like I didn't. 758 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 3: I really wasn't into like the snitching on people thing 759 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 3: like that made me uncomfortable, Like I just wanted to 760 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 3: like mind my own business type thing. But I think 761 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 3: a lot of the initial like how you get in 762 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 3: is because the people, like the kids that have been 763 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 3: there longer than you. You know, eventually you you know, 764 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 3: you're kind of alienated and like ostracized if you're the 765 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 3: one who's kind of like being defiant and acting up 766 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 3: and so at a certain point you usually start, you know, 767 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 3: like going along with the shit that they're telling you 768 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 3: to do because you don't want stuff taken away, and 769 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 3: then kind of simultaneously you want to not be like 770 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 3: ostracized by the others. 771 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,720 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a survival mechanism that kicks 772 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: in and then you almost don't even know you that's 773 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: what happened. 774 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:49,320 Speaker 3: Oh totally. 775 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it makes sense that you would become compliant 776 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 2: over time, and then yeah, I have to like find 777 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 2: a reason for that to not be because of abuse. 778 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. I also so like I because I had gone 779 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 3: to that outpatient rehab. I had been introduced to AA 780 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 3: and there was a guy that would take me to 781 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 3: meetings occasionally, and he like literally wanted nothing from me, 782 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 3: Like he didn't care if I was sober, like didn't 783 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,359 Speaker 3: want like never lectured me, didn't tell me like I, 784 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 3: this is what you need to do, this, this, and that. 785 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,319 Speaker 3: I really just went to meetings with him, And it 786 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 3: was only a handful of times, but I really just 787 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,840 Speaker 3: went to meetings with him to like appease my parents 788 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 3: and make it seem like I was like trying to 789 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,800 Speaker 3: do better. But like that was kind of like I 790 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 3: don't know, there was some seed that was planted rh Yeah, 791 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 3: where I was just like, oh, like AA, whether I 792 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 3: want to be sober or not is kind of cool 793 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 3: because nobody's forcing me to do anything, and no one cares. 794 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 3: I mean people care, but nobody's like trying to control 795 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,360 Speaker 3: like how I'm living my life or whether or not 796 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 3: I stay sober. They just want to help if I'm interested. 797 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,799 Speaker 3: And so I recognized there that like this place is 798 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:10,919 Speaker 3: not AA, and the majority of kids don't have that, 799 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 3: like didn't have that luxury, and so that actually was 800 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,319 Speaker 3: what prevented like a lot of kids that lived there 801 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 3: like or went there, you know, left and got really 802 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 3: fucked up and like really kind of like got off track, 803 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 3: but like could not separate that place from AA. So 804 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 3: they were never able to like give it a chance, 805 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,839 Speaker 3: which actually is why I think that like the death 806 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,400 Speaker 3: rate from that place is so high, because you know, 807 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 3: like sometimes they would use like AA as like a punishment. 808 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 3: They would like make you like an AA. You know. 809 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 3: The kind of main piece of literature is like this 810 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 3: book called Alcoholics Anonymous or whatever, and it kind of 811 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,399 Speaker 3: talks about alcoholism and kind of outlines like the Twelve 812 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 3: Steps and stuff. And in the program, like they would 813 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,879 Speaker 3: make you like sometimes copy it from like the front 814 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 3: of the book to the back like handwrite it. You know, 815 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 3: they would kind of like bastardize like the AA program. 816 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 2: Right, So people have no tools when they're getting out. 817 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: Because they hate A I mean, like an place like 818 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: an AA meeting where you might usually go to land 819 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,319 Speaker 1: if you're struggling with these things now is like and 820 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: like it's not palatable to you because you hate it 821 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:18,839 Speaker 1: so much. 822 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you've been through this thing at that point 823 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 2: that nobody probably can understand, so like, yeah, totally makes 824 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 2: sense that people would feel. So to contextualize what we're 825 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 2: talking about, how do we have the final tally on 826 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,760 Speaker 2: how many people have committed suicide after attending this program 827 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 2: or overdosed? 828 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't like it's always in flux, you know, 829 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 3: Like but I think like well over like probably like 830 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 3: one hundred thirty or one hundred and fifty. 831 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:49,839 Speaker 4: That's insane. 832 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, and not not just from my time there, because 833 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 3: they were probably only like from the time I got 834 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 3: there till the time I left there are probably only 835 00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,440 Speaker 3: like four hundred kids that kind kind of passed through there. 836 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 3: But I would say from like the probably from like 837 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 3: the early two thousands till when it shut I think 838 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,840 Speaker 3: it's shut down in like twenty fourteen or so, I 839 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 3: don't know. 840 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 4: So that is not that long to be open to 841 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,680 Speaker 4: produce that death. Like, oh my god, that's crazy. 842 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,440 Speaker 1: It's unfathomable. I mean, it sounds like there was a 843 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 1: lot of physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse. It just 844 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: sounds like it was ripe for everything. 845 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll leave part one there for now and come 846 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,359 Speaker 2: back next week for part two. 847 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 4: Megan, is, what's one of your takeaways from this first 848 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:40,720 Speaker 4: half of this interview? 849 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I mean the snitching culture really stood 850 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: out to me as just this clear Culty way to 851 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,759 Speaker 1: kind of breakdown the relationships between peers and get them 852 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: all moving their energy and their power upward towards leaders 853 00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 1: who are terrifying. 854 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean it's just like you just just in 855 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:03,279 Speaker 4: every fucking. 856 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,680 Speaker 2: Group or like abusive school, like it's the same same 857 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,359 Speaker 2: same thing. Tell on your tell on that person, tell 858 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,880 Speaker 2: on that part, like you have to. They just really 859 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:16,000 Speaker 2: want you to not trust the people around you and 860 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 2: to be on guard all the time, to stay constantly afraid. 861 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 1: And yeah, and to be fair, I mean obviously I mean, 862 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 1: this is not the school that was for any of 863 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,359 Speaker 1: these kids, but a lot of these kids probably needed help. 864 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,839 Speaker 1: And uh, if one of them was going to do 865 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 1: something dangerous to themselves or something like, yeah, it would 866 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: be beneficial for an adult to know. But that's not 867 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,520 Speaker 1: what we're really talking about here. This is like a 868 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,839 Speaker 1: world that is built around you have to tell on 869 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,840 Speaker 1: a certain amount of things every however many days to 870 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: like eat. 871 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:51,800 Speaker 2: Right, and it would be infractions that aren't in fractions, 872 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 2: like looking at someone exactly, like I think that's the 873 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,439 Speaker 2: bigg Like, yes, you're correct, Like if someone's actually doing 874 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,760 Speaker 2: something like dangerous or or like egregiously against the goals, 875 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:03,239 Speaker 2: not really. 876 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 1: Uh, infractions as you said, And it just builds this 877 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,120 Speaker 1: horrible mistrust and that's the best way to get powers. 878 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:16,000 Speaker 1: So kudos to these people for knowing their cult homework. 879 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,000 Speaker 2: And we really are just teaching people how to be 880 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,880 Speaker 2: cult leaders, like you just listen to the show. 881 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:27,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, learn all the tactics. Yeah, I'm being very facetious. 882 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,239 Speaker 1: Kudos not at all to the school because truly, and 883 00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 1: we get into it more next week. I mean, so 884 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,880 Speaker 1: many people have been lost because of the horrendous abuse 885 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,440 Speaker 1: at the school. So yes, thank you so much Jenny 886 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,800 Speaker 1: for speaking to us about it. And next week's episode 887 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:41,839 Speaker 1: is really good as well. 888 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,440 Speaker 2: All right, well it's a holiday week, you have a 889 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,320 Speaker 2: have as good a holiday as you guys can. 890 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, try to make it through and as always, remember 891 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,720 Speaker 1: to follow your guts, watch out for red flags. 892 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,239 Speaker 4: And never ever trust me. 893 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,680 Speaker 2: Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and 894 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 2: Steve Delemator. 895 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,640 Speaker 1: With special thanks to Stacy Para. 896 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,960 Speaker 4: And her theme song was composed by Holly amber Church. 897 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast, 898 00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at 899 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,320 Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast. 900 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,879 Speaker 2: I'm Oola Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter. 901 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,160 Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham 902 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:26,360 Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter. 903 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,840 Speaker 4: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.