WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: The Hype About Hyperloop 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:14.920 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:17.840 Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.000 and a lot of all things tech, and it's time 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:24.680 for another classic episode of tech Stuff. This episode originally 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:29.560 published November two thousand thirteen. It is titled the Hype 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:33.559 About hyper Loop, and it's interesting to point out that 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:38.000 in the seven years since we recorded this episode, we 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:41.880 haven't seen an enormous amount of progress on hyper loop. 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.800 There have been some tests, there have been some sort 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:49.400 of uh experiments with hyper loop technology, most of which 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:53.200 are not true implementations of the original vision of hyper loop, 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:56.040 but we really haven't seen a whole lot of no 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:00.360 pun intended movement on this. Let's listen back to this 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:05.199 classic episode. Long time tech Stuff fans will remember that 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:09.120 one of my co host, uh, the legendary Matt Frederick, 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:13.040 made a guest appearance on tech Stuff right many many 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:17.720 moons ago. So anyway, we are grateful to have you here, 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.480 and uh, you know you you're you're kind of sort 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:25.160 of a transportation guru by now, I would say, And 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.319 I asked Ben what topic would he like to cover, 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:31.479 and he said, hey, have you guys covered hyper loop? 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:34.280 And that's when I had to kind of kick the 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:36.840 ground and look at the look at the ground, and 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:40.640 then say no, because we did an episode about Elon Musk, 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:42.520 who has a lot to do with hyper loop, but 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:46.160 we did that on March thirteen, and he didn't talk 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.280 about hyper loop until like June. Yeah, this is a 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.520 pretty This is a fairly recent development in the context 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.000 of his career. Now, Ellen Musk, for anybody who hasn't 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.520 checked out the Tech Stuff episode on you, yeah, shame on. 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.720 You get the to a speaker of some sort, find 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.800 an RSS feed or iTunes or something and download that 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:10.120 and listen to it. We'll wait, Okay, welcome back, Yeah, 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:13.040 welcome back. And that was what you just listened to 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:16.239 if you hadn't heard it before. Was a great overview 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:20.600 of this inventor's life, including his origin story and the 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:25.040 companies he's been associated with. Jonathan if if I could 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.560 defer to you for a quick recap of l mu 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:30.960 s okay so um. He came up with a little 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:35.720 idea that would eventually be called PayPal. PayPal is, of course, 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.480 a payment system that you can use online. You can 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.920 create an account through PayPal, and it allows you to 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.640 process payments or to to make payments to vendors that 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:50.560 accept PayPal, particularly things like eBay. But it was one 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.760 of those ideas to try and make online transactions secure 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:57.000 and easy, so that maybe you didn't want to um 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:59.680 to hand over your credit card information every time. Maybe 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:02.760 you want to create a special bank account and then 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:04.920 make that a PayPal account, and so you could do 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:08.040 transfers in a more secure format. You knew that you 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.160 had a certain amount of money in that account, nothing 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.359 beyond that was ever going to get tampered with. Yeah, 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:17.440 it kind of controlled your risks. Yeah, absolutely. And now, 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.880 of course, as we've talked about with inventors in the past, 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:24.079 because you've also done a show called Stuff of Genius, 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:29.200 so we know that often when somebody invents something that 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.880 appears to be new, they're standing on the shoulders of 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:36.840 giants earlier innovations. PayPal not necessarily the first time someone 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.840 attempted to do this, but by far the most successful instance. Yeah. Yeah, 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:45.400 and even that was not Elon Musk's first foray into business. 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.840 He had tried a few times, but PayPal was I 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:53.880 guess you could say, ridiculously successful. Yea. It gave him 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.000 the freedom to pursue whatever else he wanted to do 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.280 because he made so much money so quickly that the 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:04.160 constraints were off, and so he began to pursue another 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.680 interest of his, which was, you know, cars that go 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:13.640 really fast. Yes, Tesla Motors, another little company by must 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.520 that some of you may have heard of. You Scott 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:20.040 Benjamin and I cover this often on car stuff and 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:24.520 tech stuff. Has also looked into some of the fascinating 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:28.000 innovations and technology here. Uh. So we've got a guy 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:32.039 who's done PayPal, We've got a guy who's done Tesla Motors. Uh. 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:37.640 He also was interested in another transportation initiative. Yeah, before 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.039 we even get to hyperloop. He was interested in a 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:44.520 transportation that would send you up, like really really up. 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.559 And not not balloons on a house. No, no, not 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.200 not not that up. No. We're talking, of course about 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:56.000 space X, which is a privatized space initiative. Really it's 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.840 it's the business of getting things up into space. But 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:04.240 because as we all know, NASA was getting further and 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.159 further budget cuts as time was going on, and it 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.719 became apparent that if we weren't going to have a 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.200 public space industry, something that was funded by the government. 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.680 Then if we still wanted to pursue things in space, 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:18.920 and we do, because there was a lot of important 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:22.960 stuff out there, communication satellites being one of the simplest 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.280 to explain, it meant that we had to have some 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.640 private industry step in. And so Musk said, you know, 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:31.120 I think this is something else that I'm really interested in. 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:33.919 I've always been interested in space. And he began to 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.120 devote quite a bit of time and money and resources 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:44.080 to creating a viable private space enterprise, and in fact, 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:48.200 but not the spaceship, and that would have been probably 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:54.320 a little beyond even his amazing reach. It's yeah, so 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.719 mostly what he's looking at is our ways to try 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:05.159 and create an aconomically feasible private space enterprise. And he 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.800 talked a lot about how that's difficult to do because 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.839 you have very limited vendors from whom you can get 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:17.280 the important components or your rockets. So he remember specifically, 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.680 he pointed out this problem he had in Russia, where 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.560 he would be quoted a price, he would agree to 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:26.400 purchase a certain number of units of rockets at that price, 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:30.880 and then upon the actual manufacture of it be told. Oh, 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.320 we're sorry. I know. We said there was gonna be 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.159 twenty million dollars for all of these, but it's actually 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.640 gonna be twenty million per rocket. Yeah, something along those lines. 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:41.760 It's just he talked about how, you know, you have 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.000 to deal with these things, and that it gave him 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.440 a lot of uh experience and knowledge about the industry 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:50.720 and how to try and and get around that by 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.520 making as much of the stuff yourself as possible. In fact, 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:54.880 that was one of the things he said, like this 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:59.200 explains why NASA budgets go out of control. It's not 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:02.760 that they're poorly managed. Is that you have such limited 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.440 resources to go to to get what you need that 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:09.159 you're kind of held hostage by them. So, but that 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:13.120 all of these interests are stuff that we had already 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.960 talked about on Tech Stuff, right. Yes, that was the 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:18.960 quick and dirty recap of the episode you should listen 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.480 to in full. We say all of this to say 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:27.119 that Musk has some street cred. He's not just some guy, 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:31.600 you know making a YouTube video. Uh. He is proposing 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:38.800 another transit innovation, another potential transit innovation, and that would 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.400 be the hyper loop. But my first question, you, Jonathan, 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:46.160 we're talking hyper loop, What what is it? Well, if 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.400 we were to take elon Musk's own words, and this 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:53.240 is somewhat paraphrased from an interview he gave at the 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.200 D eleven event, he said, it's a cross between a 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.680 concorde and a railgun and an air hockey table. He 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:02.480 I of the air hockey table last, like he said 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.040 concorde and a railgun first, and I got a great responses. 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:07.440 You know, technically, if I really want to blow your minds, 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.400 I need to add in the fact that there's an 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:12.760 air hockey table element in there too. And then he 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.600 made uh an inappropriate joke, But essentially he said that 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:18.440 if these three things got together and had nice romantic times, 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.200 hyper loop would be the bibbet that would be produced 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:25.240 as a result. You now that that alone doesn't really 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:27.120 tell you what hyper loop is, and I think that 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.720 was actually Musk's point. He knew he didn't want to 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.520 spoil the surprise at that event, so he wanted to 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.920 give just enough information for people to get curious about it, 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.800 but not enough to actually explain what it was. Right, 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:43.240 and one of the things one of the best ways 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.520 for us to approach this. Over the course of this episode, 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:50.160 I think we're going to go into what the science 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.120 behind a hyper loop. Uh, you know, maybe some pros, 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:57.680 some cons some similar systems. Uh, the elevator pitch. We 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.679 we can't really beat that great quote, right, but if 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:03.560 you want to, if you want something that's a little 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:06.600 easier to actually visualize beyond the fact that what you're 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:11.640 gonna shoot people through some form of high energy mechanism 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:13.880 and they're just gonna fly across you and you get 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:15.920 points if they hit the goal, And I'm like, what 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.280 is this? Yeah, but no, it's it's more like, all right, 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:22.240 so it's it's an elevated system in more ways than one. 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:24.520 For one, it's going to if it were to be built, 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.280 would be built on pylons that would go and hold 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:31.840 the the whole system above ground. Um, it's was proposed, 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.079 but to be between Los Angeles and San Francisco. Yes, 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:39.600 with an incredibly short transit time. Yeah, we'll get into that. 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:42.600 I don't want to spoil it, but but it's it's 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.719 the ideas that the capsules that you would travel and 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:47.520 it wouldn't be a train, it would be a sort 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.800 of a capsule that could hold a certain number of people. 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:54.760 Um that these these capsules would float above the floor 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.000 of the system. The whole thing would be inside a 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.680 tunnel that's on top of these pylons, so it's all 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:03.040 in loosed, but the capsule would float above the ground. 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.760 So that means you've eliminated friction from the wheel. There's 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:11.520 no wheels towards huge and then it would be propelled 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:16.439 down this tube, which also would have very low air pressure, 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.560 so you would have low air resistance. It's of partial vacuum. Yeah, 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:21.640 we'll talk a little bit more about that too in 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:25.040 a second. So essentially you're talking about some sort of 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:27.600 imagine a straw, but the straw has closed off at 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.680 both ends more or less, there's there's a little bit 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:32.800 of a gap in there to allow some air passage. 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.240 And then imagine a P that's inside, like a dried 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:39.600 p that's inside that that straw. And then imagine that 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:44.360 you have somehow maybe bombarded that p with electrons so 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.040 that it now has built up a negative electrostatic charge, 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:51.240 and then you put another negative magnet end next to it, 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:53.800 and it would zip across to the other end of 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:59.400 the tube in a very very oversimplified way. That's what 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:02.520 the hyper biz. And you are inside the p Yes, 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:07.280 you are inside, so you yeah, obviously there's some questions 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.959 that we have to answer, but that's the general idea. 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.280 So you know, this is this is actually it's we'll 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:16.640 talk about this too. This is not the first time 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.400 this kind of system has been proposed. And in fact, 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.880 there's a really interesting story we'll get to about another 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.960 person who has proposed a very similar system that they've 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.439 they've been talking about for a couple of years before 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:33.440 Musk ever said anything, and they received a slightly different reaction, 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:37.040 I would say, than what Musk has received. Um, and 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:40.079 we'll we'll have to talk about spoilers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.839 it's just just teasing you. So Hyperloop essentially, what we're 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:48.080 getting at is it's a high speed transportation system that 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.280 allows multiple passengers to go between the cities of Los 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:55.240 Angeles and San Francisco, at least initially. Shouldn't never be built. Yeah, 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.840 and uh, also, of course the questions that we need 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:00.560 to address, they are going to be popping up in 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.560 everybody's head. Um, I just want to put this in 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.439 the radar for the very end of the show. Jonathan 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:09.679 the question I want to us both to attempt to 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.280 answer the very end of the show, is this vaporware. 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.280 That's an excellent question, and yes, I think that we 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.000 will have to kind of give our own opinions on 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.480 that at the very end. So we've got a lot 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.199 to talk about. But before we get into the nitty 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.240 gritty about exactly how this thing is supposed to work, 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.800 should it ever be built, let's take a quick break 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.440 and thank our sponsor. You've probably tried Hulu dot com. 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.920 Now with Hulu Plus, you can watch your favorite shows anytime, anywhere. 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.720 Hulu Plus lets you watch thousands of hit TV shows 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:41.240 in a selection of acclaimed movies on your television or 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:43.520 on the go with your smartphone or tablet, and it 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.480 all streams an HD for the best viewing experience. With 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.000 Hulu Plus, you can watch your favorite current TV shows 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.400 like Agents of Shield, Community and Sleepy Hollow. You can 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.560 also check out exclusive content, including Hulu originals like The 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.520 Awesome starring us Nell, Seth Myers and moon Boy starring 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.720 Chris Odwald from four two. Hulu Plus also offers a 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.920 great selection of acclaimed films for only seven dollars nine 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.040 nine cents a month. You can stream as many TV 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.200 shows and movies as you want wherever you want. Right now, 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:13.800 you can try hu Plus free for two weeks when 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.480 you go to Hulu Plus dot Com Forward slash Tech. 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.280 That's a special offer for our listeners. Make sure you 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:21.920 use Hulu Plus dot Com Forward slash Tech so you 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:24.240 get the extended free trial and they know that we 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.080 sent you. Go to Hulu Plus dot Com Forward slash 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.040 Tech now. And as for shows I like to watch 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:34.320 on Hulu Plus, Agents of Shield is a big one, actually, 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.319 because occasionally I'm traveling and I miss stuff, and when 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.080 I come back, I want to catch up and see 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.600 what's going on. I feel that shows really just now 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:43.280 starting to hit its stride. I think it might have 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.480 struggled a little early in the Marvel universe. It's so huge, 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.960 and then you're dealing with these, you know, human people 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.440 and how they are interacting in this world. And I 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.400 think they're really getting into some interesting territory. So that's 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.440 a recommendation for me. You should go check it out. Alright, 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:01.040 so we're back, let's talk about all the hyper loop 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.800 would actually work. Now. You remember I was mentioning that 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:06.760 whole idea of a closed off straw with a P 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:11.840 in it. Yeah, so if you know that's that's that's okay, 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:13.440 except for the fact that if you have air in 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:15.800 that tube and the air doesn't have anywhere to go, 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:18.400 that P is going to be pushing against the air 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.520 in that tube, and even if there's space around the P, 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.160 it's not going to go as fast as it could 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:25.920 if there were no air at all. Right, The air 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:30.800 resistance is one of the biggest speed killers. Yeah, so there. 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.520 You might have heard of some maglev trains, you know, 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:39.200 trains that actually float above the track through magnetic levitation. 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:41.960 And by magnetic levitation, we're essentially talking about magnets that 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:47.200 repel one another and maintain the trains distance above a tract. 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.520 Usually it's it's like just a tiny distance above it, right, 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.320 and that's you know, and this this helps reduce friction 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.120 for those those sorts of systems. I think what we're 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.280 seeing here is that these can be thought of as 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:03.640 similar in some ways, but they have they have very 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:08.400 different mechanisms. And also, you know, if you have a 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.280 mag lev train that's in an uncovered track, then it 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.240 still has to deal with that air resistance. It's top 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:16.800 speed is going to be mitigated by the fact that 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.480 it has to push against air. So one of the 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:24.280 elements of this hyper loop system is it would be 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:27.240 at a very low pressure. You would have have a 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.480 near vacuum, but not a total vacuum. Total vacuum is 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.960 very difficult to maintain if you are talking about a 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:38.560 significantly long tube, right, Yeah. Total vacuum is in fact 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:43.040 so difficult to maintain that even if one could just 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:46.880 throw billions of dollars at the problem making really long 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.480 when uh, it might be impossible to do it effectively. 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.040 You would have to have some form of of you know, 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.600 vacuum stations all along the tube just to constantly deal 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:00.840 with any differentiation and pressure. So in stead, Musk says, 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.160 why don't we just have something that will lower the 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.320 air pressure quite a bit, uh, and that will allow 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.640 for reduced air resistance because you don't have as much 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:11.960 air to push against, and then all that means the 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:15.760 capsule can move faster within that tube. So that's that's 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:19.200 one element to Another element is, well, how do you 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:23.000 get the tube to float above the base of the track, 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.720 the base of the tunnel, and it's not through magnetic limitation? Yeah, yeah, 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.240 it's uh, it's weirdly enough. It goes back to our 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:35.240 air hockey comparison exactly, the air cushioning. Right, Yes, so 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.320 you've got you've got these little air skis on the 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:42.480 base of the metal capsule. So imagine these flat surfaces, 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.320 lots of surface area on the base of this capsule, 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:49.160 and then the track could blow air up and the 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.440 capsule is on a cushion of air. So that there's 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.920 another reason why you can't have a total vacuum, because 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.560 if you're using air to keep the the capsule up, Uh, 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.640 you obviously can't have a toll vacuum, right. Yeah. In 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:03.840 this in this case, in a very crew comparison, it 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.240 would be trying to drive a car without wheels. Yeah yeah, 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.600 And um, for anyone who has tried that, I'm sorry. 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.200 I wish we had talked earlier. I know a lot 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.960 of people who have cars without wheels on their front yard. 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:17.919 But that's because we live in the South, right, that 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.040 is because we live in the South. But so if 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.719 we just take if we just take these two ideas, right, 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:27.640 partial vacuum, eliminating the air resistance, having these air skis. 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:29.920 Um one of the first things that I thought about 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.639 when I was reading about the hyper loop system was 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.679 it always reminded me in principle of the pneumatic bank tubes, 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:39.399 remember those. Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:43.280 And there's even a there's even this such a tangent, 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.080 but there's even a system that someone tried to build, 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:48.879 I believe in New York that was supposed to be 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:53.040 a pneumatic train system. Spoiler alert didn't work out? And 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.719 so how how would we like We're gonna keep explaining 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:00.200 the science, but but it's it's important that we under line, 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:06.400 we emphasize that this is at best wildly ambitious. So 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.399 we've got um, we've got back to uh to the 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:12.639 idea with the science. Now at this point we're talking 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.800 about principles, we're talking about blue sky stuff. I love 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:18.000 that you brought up the p example. This is a 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.960 great example P A P E A for our family show. 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:28.400 I'm sorry, so this uh, this p this sealed capsule 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:33.240 um could carry twenty eight passengers, right, so it's larger 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.800 than your average pe. He even suggested that if you 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.440 wanted to expand the hyperloop, you could have larger capsules 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.639 that could carry not just passengers, but cars as well. 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.560 One of the reasons for that is that the proposed 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.680 stations that would be in Los Angeles and San Francisco 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.600 would actually be in outlying areas, meaning that once you've 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:53.840 got there, you would not be right there in the 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:55.760 city center. You would have to find some other means 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:58.680 of transportation to getting you to your final location, assuming 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:00.720 that it's not a hotel that's a jacent to the 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:06.399 to the station, right, which would be probably wildly expensive. Yeah, well, 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.119 you know, yes, And I remember I read one report 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.960 that said because you would have to transfer to a 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.240 different form of transportation, that would significantly increase the travel time. 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.480 And I'm thinking, have you ever driven between San Francisco 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:20.959 and Los Angeles? Because I don't know, you know, if 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.080 you know what the word significant means, because I have 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.199 gone between San Francisco and Los Angeles by car and 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.280 it is not leisurely is a good word for it? 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.640 How long did it take? We actually decided to make 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.879 it a road trip, so we stopped overnight between the 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:39.200 two and we we took a more scenic route anyway. 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:41.280 We didn't take a direct route between San Francisco in 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:43.520 l A. We went down the Coastal Highway, so we 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.600 were already going out of our way, but we stopped 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.200 just south of Big Sir, which is gorgeous by the way. 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:51.479 If you've ever been to California, and you've been there, 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:53.000 you know what I'm talking about, and if you haven't, 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.399 you should check it out. It's absolutely beautiful landscape. But 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.280 it's a long drive, and we decided we would make 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.960 that an ex sperience as opposed to a frustration. Right, 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:04.879 We planned for it to be a long drive and 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:07.200 that we would take a break halfway down. Now, if 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.119 you were to go just down the highway, it'd be 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.679 a few hours, right, it wouldn't be It wouldn't be 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:14.680 like a you know, a twelve hour drive or anything, 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:16.880 depending upon how bad the traffic is, because it can 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:21.400 get rough. But it's it's it's definitely not a quick 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.240 trip and uh, at least not yet, but the hyper 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:27.359 loop could possibly make it a quick trip. Now. We 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.520 haven't talked even about the propulsion system, all right, Yeah, 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:33.520 we talked about that. It's floating above the track, well, 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:35.760 not even a track. It's floating above the ground of 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:39.560 this tunnel, which again is elevated. It's on these pylons, 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:42.960 and we talked about how uh you know, it's we 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:44.919 got the lower air pressure inside the tunnel, but how 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:48.120 does it actually move. It uses a series of linear 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:52.680 electric motors which actually create a magnetic field, and so 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.720 in this case, it's like the maglev trains that also 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.160 use magnetic fields for two purposes. They use it one 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:00.679 to levitate the train and the second one is to 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:04.679 propel the train down the track. So while you're not 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:08.719 using magnetism to levitate the capsule inside the hyperloop, you 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.560 are using it to push it forward. And here's the 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:13.600 neat thing it is because you've got that low air 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.800 pressure system within this tunnel and you don't have to 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.400 worry so much about friction. You've really reduced friction. You 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:24.200 only have to accelerate the capsule for a relatively short 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:26.160 amount of time and then it can glide the rest 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:28.640 of the way. Because you don't have to continuously pour 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:32.520 an energy to maintain that speed. You will slow down 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:36.639 on your own because uh, you still have entropy to 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:39.560 deal with. It's not a purely frictionless system. It's not 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.479 a pure vacuum. So clearly eventually it's going to stop. 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.640 But the term there is eventually. So that's the neat 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:48.480 thing is that you accelerate to a top speed and 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.280 then you stop, and then you just allow the capsule 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.280 to travel the rest of the way. So, now that 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.040 we know how it goes, how fast can this thing go? 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:00.919 The route is three hundred fifty four miles or about 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:05.639 five seventy kilos. Uh. Yeah, And and since we know, 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:09.199 since now we can get into our spoiler territory and 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:13.480 say that the proposed transportation time is thirty five minutes. 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:17.520 That's incredible. That's so such a short amount of time 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:20.920 to go between l A and San Francisco. That's that's crazy. 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:26.240 We are automatically gonna be old codgers who people will 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.800 dismiss when we say, you know, day, it took here. 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:32.359 It took care at least five hours to get it 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:34.600 to me. It takes more than thirty five minutes to 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:37.720 drive across Los Angeles. I mean that's l A is enormous. 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:42.000 So yeah, and this, um, so this this speed, let's see, 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:46.000 how would you I've I've heard some differing numbers, so um, 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:49.600 I usually say I usually say it's right around like 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.719 just below six hundred miles per hour as the average 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:56.160 speed somewhere somewhere between five and six hundred miles per 0:22:56.160 --> 0:22:59.280 hour would be the average speed. So that's roughly around 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:03.639 nine kilometers per hour give or take, you know, kilometers 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:07.200 per hour. Because because again, like you said, the discussions 0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:10.919 vary on this, because it all depends upon uh, you know, 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:13.760 how you're defining everything. And thirty five minutes, I think 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:16.199 when they say thirty five minutes, to me, that just 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:19.439 sounds like a number, like like, I don't know that 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:22.960 they have specifically worked it out where scientifically speaking, it's 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:26.000 thirty five minutes travel time and almost to me sounds like, well, 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:28.320 here's here's a short enough amount of time for you 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:33.840 to consider this incredible accomplishment. But that would mean that 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:35.800 you would have a top speed, Like I said, you'd 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:37.600 hit that top speed and then allow it to slow down. 0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:40.359 That would be probably around between seven and fifty and 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:43.520 seven and seventy five miles per hour, or around twelve 0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:47.240 hundred kilometers per hour for your top speed. That's faster 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:51.040 than what how most uh commercial jets travel, right, And 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:54.200 that also gives us that also gives us a good 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:56.800 place to note that if you are ever writing in 0:23:56.840 --> 0:23:59.440 this and you have some sort of phobia about this 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:03.840 kind of stuff. Um, you know, do your best. You 0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:06.959 might you might need to um have someone sing you 0:24:07.359 --> 0:24:10.560 a sweet song thirty five minutes because if you think 0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:13.679 about you are in an enclosed capsule. I'm guessing that 0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:16.399 there wouldn't be any real windows, because what would be 0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:18.440 the point. There's a really a way to do it 0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:21.000 that would be worth the effort. Yeah, I mean, I 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:23.719 guess you could. You could put something along the tubes 0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:26.600 so that when you travel it's almost like animation that 0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:29.359 I've actually seen train tunnels that have this kind of 0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:32.080 stuff where because as long as the train is moving 0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:35.879 at the average speed, you get this illusion of animation 0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:38.000 because of the way that things are lit and the 0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:40.439 way you're moving through this tunnel. So I guess you 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:43.040 could do that. But otherwise you are in an enclosed 0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:45.439 steel tunnel. It's not like you've got a lot to 0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:48.879 look at. So if you are clustrophobic, I would imagine 0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:52.080 that would be scary. Plus you're going to experience some 0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:55.280 some you know, some acceleration. I I I'm sure that 0:24:55.280 --> 0:24:57.920 the acceleration would be gradual, so it wouldn't be so 0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:01.959 incredible that you'd be you know, crushed back in your seats, 0:25:02.600 --> 0:25:05.920 experiencing like tend gees of force. That would be way 0:25:06.000 --> 0:25:09.440 too much, um, but there, Yeah, but there will definitely 0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:14.639 be noticeable effects. It's pretty much unavoidable at that at 0:25:14.720 --> 0:25:16.520 that level of speed. Yeah, and then you have to 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:19.199 also worry about deceleration when you get to the end 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:21.920 of your trip. So again they would be using magnets 0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:26.399 to help slow down the capsule's travel so that you 0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:29.600 would come to a smooth stop. But that would be 0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:32.680 something that you have to take special care of. And obviously, 0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:35.680 like you, you definitely need to put this into very 0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:39.960 narrow ranges of acceptance because otherwise, how can you guarantee 0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:44.560 that the average person would would experience no ill effects 0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:47.840 inside this capsule? Keeping in mind that the average person, 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:51.280 you know, there's what we say average, We're talking about 0:25:51.320 --> 0:25:55.040 a huge variety of variables, everything from uh, you know, 0:25:55.240 --> 0:26:00.159 health issues, part conditioning right right exactly, or you know, 0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:03.640 just someone who is older, would they be safe? Would 0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:07.480 they are they likely to suffer ill effects from this 0:26:07.640 --> 0:26:10.600 acceleration and deceleration. Well, someone who really had to use 0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:13.760 the bathroom but they forgot to do it before they 0:26:13.800 --> 0:26:15.239 got on the train. Yeah, I don't know if there 0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:18.199 would be a bathroom in here. You would think there 0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:20.560 would need to be, just because you know, if you've 0:26:20.560 --> 0:26:23.440 got a group of people together. Yeah, and asking someone 0:26:23.520 --> 0:26:25.280 to hold it for thirty five minutes might be a 0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:28.200 bit much depending upon that person, but they they're probably okay, 0:26:28.240 --> 0:26:29.840 I'm gonna go out and live and say there probably 0:26:29.960 --> 0:26:32.520 isn't at least yet. We do know that there are 0:26:32.680 --> 0:26:36.960 emergency exits built along the tubes um or at least 0:26:36.960 --> 0:26:40.280 there there would be. We haven't. We haven't built anything yet. Yeah, 0:26:40.400 --> 0:26:42.480 let's underline that again. And you did a great job 0:26:42.560 --> 0:26:45.360 emphasizing that in the beginning, but we can't say it enough. 0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:48.440 This has not been built yet. And the recording of 0:26:48.480 --> 0:26:52.879 this podcasting of this podcast, Hey guys, it's Jonathan from 0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:55.800 here to break in just so that we could take 0:26:55.960 --> 0:27:06.600 a quick break, will be right back. Where does the 0:27:07.240 --> 0:27:10.360 hyperloop get its power? Because you're talking about electric motors 0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:14.280 providing that force to propel them. Uh, presumably you'd be 0:27:14.359 --> 0:27:17.000 using some form of electric motors to to create the 0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:21.159 air cushion. So where are you getting that power? And 0:27:21.680 --> 0:27:24.280 Musk had said, well, let's put solar panels along the 0:27:24.359 --> 0:27:28.879 top of this this raised tunnel and you just harvest 0:27:28.920 --> 0:27:32.080 solar energy and you store that and use that as 0:27:32.160 --> 0:27:35.160 the power source, saying that if you did this properly, 0:27:35.600 --> 0:27:37.440 you would not have to tap into the power grid 0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:40.840 at all. It would be completely self contained in that respect, 0:27:41.560 --> 0:27:45.000 which you know obviously that would be a huge benefit. 0:27:45.200 --> 0:27:49.440 You can say, well, while the operating costs have only like, 0:27:49.560 --> 0:27:51.560 we can't even estimate what the operating costs of this 0:27:51.680 --> 0:27:54.440 system would be, but if you can remove power from that, 0:27:54.560 --> 0:27:57.120 then you can at least compare that part to any 0:27:57.200 --> 0:28:01.440 other alternative plan. That's true. And also you know the 0:28:01.560 --> 0:28:04.880 other the other power source they're inside the pods would 0:28:04.880 --> 0:28:08.520 be the batteries that Tesla that again come from uh 0:28:09.080 --> 0:28:13.240 Tesla bottlesque electric cars. Well they don't, they're related to it, yeah, 0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:16.320 and Tesla, the Tesla motors. The one of the things 0:28:16.359 --> 0:28:19.680 that they've they've really innovated in is battery technology and 0:28:19.760 --> 0:28:23.440 charging technology. They have something called a supercharger which allows 0:28:23.560 --> 0:28:27.199 them to charge batteries to essentially full capacity at relatively 0:28:27.320 --> 0:28:32.640 short intervals. So that would allow them to continuously operate 0:28:32.720 --> 0:28:36.639 and recharge these these capsules so that you didn't have 0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:39.440 to worry about taking them offline for a great deal 0:28:39.480 --> 0:28:42.760 of time. Now clearly. Uh. You know, one of the 0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:47.200 criticisms I've heard is that the system might work in California, 0:28:47.360 --> 0:28:49.680 where you get a lot of sunshine. But if you 0:28:49.760 --> 0:28:52.400 were to try and expand this so that you could, 0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:55.680 you know, maybe people who I don't know don't live 0:28:55.720 --> 0:29:00.360 in California. As crazy as that sounds to the people 0:29:00.400 --> 0:29:03.000 who in this room three, really because we got no 0:29:03.200 --> 0:29:05.800 here too, none of us live in California. We would 0:29:05.800 --> 0:29:07.320 not be able to take advantage of this unless we 0:29:07.360 --> 0:29:09.040 were to head out and see our buddies at Revision 0:29:09.120 --> 0:29:11.959 three and then say, hey, let's go to Disneyland. Uh. 0:29:12.480 --> 0:29:14.320 And you know it's just a thirty five minute tripped 0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:18.080 on hyperloop. Um. But yeah, it's it wouldn't necessarily work 0:29:18.200 --> 0:29:21.800 everywhere using solar energy. It's like in the UK. Yeah, yeah, 0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:24.680 the UK might not get enough son to keep that going. 0:29:24.800 --> 0:29:27.240 So they Now, you could argue that sure, you could 0:29:27.320 --> 0:29:30.600 offset whatever the power needs were with solar panels, and 0:29:30.640 --> 0:29:32.800 then the rest you would supply with whatever the power 0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:35.640 grid would supply. So it's not like it's an all 0:29:35.760 --> 0:29:37.600 or nothing game. It's not a zero sum game. I 0:29:37.640 --> 0:29:39.840 don't mean to say that, but it's one of those 0:29:39.840 --> 0:29:42.760 things you've got to take into consideration. So all right, 0:29:42.880 --> 0:29:45.640 so this sounds pretty incredible. Ben, This, this, this whole 0:29:45.680 --> 0:29:50.120 system sounds amazing to me. Um, you know what, everything 0:29:50.200 --> 0:29:52.880 that's amazing comes to the price tag. And I'm curious 0:29:52.960 --> 0:29:56.760 how much Musk thinks this system would cost. Oh man, 0:29:57.200 --> 0:30:00.480 you know, I think the bargain number that I've heard 0:30:00.600 --> 0:30:05.040 thrown around is as low as uh six billion? Is 0:30:05.080 --> 0:30:07.600 that what? That's what I saw? That's the the alpha 0:30:07.960 --> 0:30:12.080 design has been called six billion dollars because this is again, 0:30:12.200 --> 0:30:15.560 no one has seriously looked into building this, at least 0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:18.800 to the point where talks go beyond just a kind 0:30:18.840 --> 0:30:22.200 of hypothetical situation. Right. Yeah, that's a good point. Right now. 0:30:22.440 --> 0:30:24.760 A lot of the numbers that you and I are 0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:31.160 pulling come directly from a fifty seven page uh. I 0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:34.320 think it's fair to call the manifesto written by Musk 0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:39.320 about the hyperloop and this, uh, this number comes from 0:30:39.440 --> 0:30:43.080 his estimate this alpha system. Think of it like, uh, 0:30:43.600 --> 0:30:45.920 think of it like when the first PlayStation came out, 0:30:46.040 --> 0:30:49.080 you know, it was it was it was chunky, it 0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:51.880 was first gin. It didn't have all the amenities, all 0:30:51.920 --> 0:30:54.920 the bells and whistles. For instance, the Alpha system doesn't 0:30:55.120 --> 0:30:58.400 take into account the idea of UM which you mentioned earlier, 0:30:58.440 --> 0:31:01.960 the idea of putting passenger vehicle right right. So in fact, 0:31:02.200 --> 0:31:04.000 I think they said that if you wanted to make 0:31:04.040 --> 0:31:07.440 it for passenger vehicles UH to be stored on those 0:31:07.520 --> 0:31:09.000 kind of pods as well, it would be more like 0:31:09.080 --> 0:31:12.560 seven point five billion, and at one point five billion 0:31:12.720 --> 0:31:18.960 increase for something that significance seems really really optimistic to me. Yeah, 0:31:19.000 --> 0:31:23.080 optimistics the diplomatic word, because you imagine that any capsule 0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:26.640 that could hold at least a vehicle and presumably more 0:31:26.720 --> 0:31:28.880 than one, if you're talking about this being a mass 0:31:28.960 --> 0:31:33.120 transportation system, then you know you're going to have to 0:31:33.240 --> 0:31:35.240 have larger capsules, which means in turn, you have to 0:31:35.320 --> 0:31:40.160 have larger tunnels to to accommodate those larger capsules, stronger 0:31:40.280 --> 0:31:43.720 pylons or the weight. Yeah, it's I mean, everything ends 0:31:43.760 --> 0:31:48.200 up having to be larger and more more resilient, and 0:31:48.320 --> 0:31:50.440 it just then means it's going to cost more. So 0:31:50.640 --> 0:31:53.000 one point five billion more is kind of I mean, 0:31:53.400 --> 0:31:56.840 I'm curious to see how they arrived at their numbers. UM. 0:31:57.520 --> 0:32:01.840 I've read other estimations one person and had suggested that 0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:04.600 it would be more like one hundred billion dollars to 0:32:04.680 --> 0:32:07.040 make such a system because you have to factor in 0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:13.920 everything from the design prototypes, development, testing it, making sure 0:32:13.960 --> 0:32:15.840 that it's safe for people to use, and then finally 0:32:15.960 --> 0:32:19.920 building out the real system, and then uh and then 0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:23.360 operating it, maintaining it. You know that there are a 0:32:23.440 --> 0:32:26.600 lot of costs in there, so uh, it's interesting too. 0:32:26.640 --> 0:32:29.560 Did you see how much they had proposed a ticket 0:32:29.600 --> 0:32:33.880 would be on the hyperlop, Yeah, twenty dollars. One way, 0:32:34.160 --> 0:32:36.520 it's more it would be more expensive for you to 0:32:36.560 --> 0:32:39.800 take a cab to the station than it would to 0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:42.760 take a trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles. Yeah, 0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:45.920 and twenty dollars. That to me, out of all the 0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:48.400 numbers we've got thrown around, twenty dollars is the one 0:32:48.840 --> 0:32:52.600 that is most likely to make me smirk. Yeah, because 0:32:52.760 --> 0:32:56.280 that's that's blue sky. Know. If it works, is it fantastic? Sure? 0:32:56.680 --> 0:32:59.880 If it's fifty dollars for a ticket, is it worth 0:33:00.040 --> 0:33:04.200 it still? Yes? Yes, there's so much worth it. Yeah. 0:33:04.400 --> 0:33:07.800 That's the thing is that I wonder there. I've seen 0:33:07.840 --> 0:33:10.360 some economists say that I can't understand how they would 0:33:10.400 --> 0:33:12.760 come up with this idea that if you had a 0:33:12.880 --> 0:33:16.040 twenty dollar ticket, it would recapture the cost of building 0:33:16.120 --> 0:33:19.560 this thing within the time frame that Musk was suggesting. Uh, 0:33:19.800 --> 0:33:23.000 you know, I just I also think now, granted, Musk 0:33:23.160 --> 0:33:27.240 is a a pretty smart businessman. He's he's he's achieved 0:33:27.520 --> 0:33:30.240 way more on the business side of things than I 0:33:30.400 --> 0:33:33.920 have or that I ever expect to achieve. You know, 0:33:34.080 --> 0:33:36.040 you never know what tomorrow brings. You know, maybe I 0:33:36.440 --> 0:33:39.120 maybe I end up coming up. Hey, I came up 0:33:39.160 --> 0:33:41.040 with an idea that could win me a Nobel Prize 0:33:41.520 --> 0:33:44.840 when I was talking about possibly the existence of white 0:33:44.880 --> 0:33:47.640 holes and why we haven't identified any. I'm still waiting 0:33:47.680 --> 0:33:49.320 on that check. I got a certificate though, I'll show 0:33:49.360 --> 0:33:54.000 it to you. Episode listeners sent me a certificate. Um. Yeah, 0:33:54.360 --> 0:33:58.040 it's just to me that just that twenty dollars per ticket, 0:33:58.640 --> 0:34:01.920 it really makes me wonder how many people per day 0:34:02.600 --> 0:34:06.040 the system would allow to travel so that you would 0:34:06.520 --> 0:34:10.239 recapture those costs within a reasonable amount of time. Well, 0:34:10.280 --> 0:34:12.080 I've got musk take on it, and it is an 0:34:12.120 --> 0:34:14.759 excellent question because that price has to we have to 0:34:14.840 --> 0:34:18.920 assume that there are there, there's at least concrete estimation 0:34:19.040 --> 0:34:22.879 behind that. Um, here is what he's thinking. He said 0:34:22.960 --> 0:34:26.319 the capacity of would be on average eight forty passengers 0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:30.480 per hour. Wow. So he argues that's more than sufficient 0:34:30.600 --> 0:34:34.160 enough to transport all of the six million passengers traveling 0:34:34.239 --> 0:34:37.719 between l A and San Francisco per year. Uh, and 0:34:37.960 --> 0:34:41.359 that accounts for sevent those travelers to use hyper loop 0:34:41.440 --> 0:34:45.080 during rush hour. So there's a lot of there's a 0:34:45.120 --> 0:34:47.840 lot of wind at your back scenario stuff going on 0:34:48.320 --> 0:34:51.680 dred and forty per hour that's you know, that's pretty 0:34:52.120 --> 0:34:55.080 amazing if and how many people did they say the 0:34:55.120 --> 0:34:58.480 capsule could hold, like twenty something, So there are there 0:34:58.520 --> 0:35:00.759 are a lot of capsules traveling on that system in 0:35:00.880 --> 0:35:04.439 order to get and obviously this is a two way loop. 0:35:04.520 --> 0:35:07.680 I mean there's a loop, So you would divide that 0:35:07.760 --> 0:35:09.960 by two to figure out how many are traveling north 0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:13.200 versus south essentially and leaving every two minutes. That's the 0:35:13.600 --> 0:35:18.000 interval of the trains. Again, that's the proposed interval of 0:35:18.120 --> 0:35:21.160 the trains. And um, you know, yeah, it might sound 0:35:21.200 --> 0:35:23.440 weird to some of the listeners that you and I 0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:28.080 are taking a few moments every few minutes to say, well, 0:35:28.200 --> 0:35:31.120 that would be this is conditional. But it's very, very 0:35:31.239 --> 0:35:34.960 very important to note this because any time that we're 0:35:35.000 --> 0:35:39.360 talking about um an infrastructure process uh an infrastructure of 0:35:39.520 --> 0:35:44.160 this size, or in any any kind of new transportation, 0:35:44.840 --> 0:35:47.960 we have to understand that it's very safe to assume 0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:52.239 that the cost will balloon, will skyrock. Sure, yeah, because 0:35:52.239 --> 0:35:54.360 you're always going to run into other costs, just like 0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:57.440 Musk ran into other costs with SpaceX, things that he 0:35:57.520 --> 0:36:00.239 did not anticipate because he was told one thing and 0:36:00.360 --> 0:36:02.640 it turned out to be another thing. I would imagine 0:36:02.680 --> 0:36:05.759 the same situation would happen here where things that you know, 0:36:06.120 --> 0:36:09.160 you're basing it off of a certain set of expectations, 0:36:09.239 --> 0:36:12.400 but you haven't factored into all the other variables that 0:36:12.719 --> 0:36:17.399 could affect any of those numbers, including things like well, 0:36:17.560 --> 0:36:21.400 in order for me to get the political uh angle covered, 0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:25.160 I need to make sure that all these other things 0:36:25.200 --> 0:36:27.040 are covered first, or I'm not going to get the 0:36:27.040 --> 0:36:29.560 support I need to get this done, which kind of 0:36:30.000 --> 0:36:32.320 this is kind of brings us into those pros and cons. Obviously, 0:36:32.440 --> 0:36:35.719 the pro here is that you would have a high 0:36:35.760 --> 0:36:39.440 speed transportation system that could get you between two distant 0:36:39.520 --> 0:36:43.080 cities in thirty five minutes, which is phenomenal for a 0:36:43.160 --> 0:36:46.279 low price twenty bucks a ticket. That's yeah. I can 0:36:46.320 --> 0:36:48.560 imagine so many people in l A or San Francisco 0:36:48.640 --> 0:36:51.640 taking weekend trips. You know, because you've got twenty bucks 0:36:51.680 --> 0:36:53.960 a person, it's not nothing. You can go visit the 0:36:54.000 --> 0:36:56.319 other city and your you can spend most of your 0:36:56.360 --> 0:36:58.560 time doing whatever it is you want to do instead 0:36:58.560 --> 0:37:01.720 of in the car. Great. Yeah, I like the idea 0:37:02.080 --> 0:37:05.080 that's getting most it's electricity from solar power, so it's 0:37:05.160 --> 0:37:09.960 not causing too much of a carbon footprint. Depending upon 0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:11.400 how you know, you would have to factor in how 0:37:11.480 --> 0:37:14.880 much carbon footprint was generated just through the construction, but 0:37:15.400 --> 0:37:17.920 the operation you would imagine would be you know, pretty 0:37:18.000 --> 0:37:20.680 low since you're using solar power as your source of energy. 0:37:20.960 --> 0:37:24.239 I love that. I love innovation obviously. I love the 0:37:24.360 --> 0:37:27.160 idea that if this were actually to be as cost 0:37:27.239 --> 0:37:31.880 efficient as Musk claims, it would be remarkably less expensive 0:37:32.000 --> 0:37:35.160 than the proposed train high speed train system that they 0:37:35.400 --> 0:37:38.080 want to build between l A and San Francisco. Ah. Yes, 0:37:38.320 --> 0:37:40.560 I am so glad you mentioned that because that's one 0:37:40.640 --> 0:37:42.719 of our that's one of our other factors. We should 0:37:42.760 --> 0:37:45.880 take just a just a sidebar here and talk about that, 0:37:46.440 --> 0:37:50.040 uh hyper loop is. While hyper loop might be the 0:37:50.120 --> 0:37:52.960 Internet favorite right now, it is not is not the 0:37:53.120 --> 0:37:56.719 only contender in the game for high speed transit in 0:37:56.880 --> 0:38:01.920 this realm Uh there's also califour ands UH state sanctioned 0:38:02.080 --> 0:38:06.560 transit system, which which, let's see, what's the nicest way 0:38:06.600 --> 0:38:09.840 to say it. It throws that six billion dollar price 0:38:09.960 --> 0:38:14.520 tag into a very favorable contrast, right. Yeah. Musk was 0:38:14.640 --> 0:38:16.839 making this point when he was talking about hyper loop 0:38:17.080 --> 0:38:18.880 for the first couple of times. He said he was 0:38:19.000 --> 0:38:23.480 looking at the figures for this proposed bullet train between 0:38:23.800 --> 0:38:26.120 l A and San Francisco, and he said, there are 0:38:26.120 --> 0:38:29.919 two factors here, two superlatives that you never want. One, 0:38:30.400 --> 0:38:34.160 it's the most expensive bullet train per mile than any 0:38:34.239 --> 0:38:36.759 other one in the world. And to it's the slowest one. 0:38:37.160 --> 0:38:40.239 So it's very slow and very expensive. He's compared to 0:38:40.320 --> 0:38:43.120 other bullet train systems. Right, and we know that we 0:38:43.280 --> 0:38:47.000 know that in the case of bullet train technology, this 0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:50.160 is not in the same situation as the hyper loop. 0:38:50.360 --> 0:38:53.239 Bullet train technology has been tested, has been proven to 0:38:53.280 --> 0:38:57.319 work successfully in Japan, and works successfully in China. There's 0:38:57.320 --> 0:38:59.319 some in Europe as well as some in Europe as well. 0:38:59.520 --> 0:39:02.719 And it's not as though it's not as though this 0:39:03.000 --> 0:39:07.960 is slow and inordinately expensive because of a lot of research. 0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:13.880 It might just be, as Must proposes, a frustrating example 0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:18.680 of poor implementation, which he was so frustrated with it 0:39:18.800 --> 0:39:22.279 that it led to this hyperloop idea. Yeah. I said 0:39:22.320 --> 0:39:25.319 that that was essentially the impetus that got into thinking 0:39:25.360 --> 0:39:27.640 there had to be a better way to get people 0:39:28.239 --> 0:39:34.600 quickly between uh, these two cities and at a lower price. Yeah, 0:39:34.760 --> 0:39:38.000 And I'll put on some pros to dovetail with the 0:39:38.080 --> 0:39:40.680 pros that you you earlier mentioned, which we are all 0:39:40.800 --> 0:39:44.360 great good points. Um. One of the other pros that 0:39:44.560 --> 0:39:47.360 I see, and this is all blue sky. If this works, 0:39:47.840 --> 0:39:51.880 how amazing would it be to be able to build 0:39:52.440 --> 0:39:57.320 a network of hyper loops kind of picture just almost 0:39:57.360 --> 0:40:01.719 like a chain of loops around a around a coastline 0:40:02.320 --> 0:40:07.880 or traversing through the United States. I mean, that's wildly ambitious. 0:40:07.960 --> 0:40:12.560 That's that's something that's not to bring mortality into it, Jonathan, 0:40:12.640 --> 0:40:15.000 but that's something that might be beyond our lifetimes even 0:40:15.080 --> 0:40:17.960 if it did work. Right, we have this, uh, well, 0:40:18.000 --> 0:40:20.040 I can also imagine that if you're talking about a 0:40:20.640 --> 0:40:24.319 more of a nationwide rollout of this, you would face other, 0:40:25.120 --> 0:40:28.320 uh interesting opponents to it. I could imagine the airline 0:40:28.360 --> 0:40:31.520 industry being very much interested in the fact that you 0:40:31.560 --> 0:40:35.080 would suddenly have a high speed method getting between two 0:40:35.160 --> 0:40:38.960 locations at perhaps lower travel times than you would in 0:40:39.080 --> 0:40:42.960 the air and you know that would be there'll be 0:40:43.000 --> 0:40:46.279 a lot more politics going into it, absolutely, And it's 0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:49.080 funny because on car stuff, we did an episode once 0:40:49.160 --> 0:40:54.319 on the proposal for a global inter interstate system lack 0:40:54.400 --> 0:41:00.839 of a better word, and by far even countering the infrastructure, 0:41:00.840 --> 0:41:04.799 even countering in the cost of maintenance, which is astronomical. Yeah, 0:41:05.239 --> 0:41:07.719 the by far one of the most difficult things would 0:41:07.760 --> 0:41:12.760 be political opposition, which I think leads us naturally into 0:41:13.080 --> 0:41:16.680 the cons of of this system. Right. So one would 0:41:16.719 --> 0:41:19.040 be we can't really be sure what the cost is, 0:41:19.600 --> 0:41:22.480 so we don't while we know what Musk claims he 0:41:22.560 --> 0:41:28.360 thinks it'll it'll cost that maybe wildly optimistic um, Whereas 0:41:28.440 --> 0:41:31.879 we can look at what other systems cost based upon 0:41:32.200 --> 0:41:38.879 previous builds. Although I think the the proposed bullet train 0:41:39.400 --> 0:41:42.680 is already something at like sixty eight billion dollars. So 0:41:42.760 --> 0:41:45.719 it's already ten times more expensive than what Musk is proposing. 0:41:45.920 --> 0:41:49.040 And it was sixty billion dollars and it jumped up 0:41:49.080 --> 0:41:52.279 eight billion by right. And it also it would take 0:41:52.320 --> 0:41:54.600 you about two hours forty minutes to get from l 0:41:54.680 --> 0:41:57.080 A to San Francisco on that train as opposed to 0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:01.359 as opposed to the Musk's train or Musk's hyperloop. It's 0:42:01.400 --> 0:42:04.120 not trained but anyway, um, so that's a con. Another 0:42:04.200 --> 0:42:08.680 con is it's a totally unproven technology. So with no precedent, 0:42:08.840 --> 0:42:10.879 it's really hard to say whether or not it will work. 0:42:11.080 --> 0:42:13.640 Like you could build some prototypes and test it out, 0:42:13.719 --> 0:42:16.520 but we honestly don't know. And it could be one 0:42:16.520 --> 0:42:18.520 of those things where you test out and it doesn't work, 0:42:18.560 --> 0:42:23.040 and then you've you've, in some people's minds anyway, wasted time, 0:42:23.239 --> 0:42:26.000 energy and effort in order to prove that you could 0:42:26.080 --> 0:42:28.479 not do what you had hoped to do. So there's 0:42:28.600 --> 0:42:30.600 that's one. Another one is just you know, trying to 0:42:30.640 --> 0:42:33.640 figure out how do you you know, how do you 0:42:34.120 --> 0:42:37.120 navigate those tricky political waters where you want to erect 0:42:37.280 --> 0:42:43.040 all these pylons alongside highways in California? You know, and 0:42:43.200 --> 0:42:45.719 and then just the construction alone, like how how long 0:42:45.760 --> 0:42:50.799 would that take to build an enormous loop built on pylons? Uh, 0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:55.120 you know, And and so there's there's that con as well. Yeah, 0:42:55.280 --> 0:42:57.640 and that's a that's an interesting one because that is 0:42:57.680 --> 0:43:01.359 a con that is going to become more expensive over 0:43:01.520 --> 0:43:05.919 time given the growth of that area of California. If 0:43:06.440 --> 0:43:10.400 you know, let's say, let's just be wildly optimistic. Man, 0:43:10.520 --> 0:43:14.000 let's say eight years from now, right the great ground, 0:43:14.200 --> 0:43:17.320 and they've got they probably have a lot of agreements 0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:20.960 secured right for the land or whatever. But then it's 0:43:20.960 --> 0:43:22.680 obviously it's going to take more than a year to 0:43:22.760 --> 0:43:26.600 build something this gargantelin. So the next year comes around 0:43:26.719 --> 0:43:30.320 and wait, oh the prices have changed. So instead of 0:43:30.440 --> 0:43:33.600 twenty million dollars for this stretch of land, it's twenty 0:43:33.640 --> 0:43:37.120 million per acre now, just like the rockets. But again, 0:43:37.719 --> 0:43:40.480 just back to your earlier point, there's no, it's very 0:43:40.560 --> 0:43:43.480 difficult because there's so many variables that are in the dark. 0:43:43.560 --> 0:43:48.040 I've got some additional cons that I haven't seen totally addressed, 0:43:48.280 --> 0:43:50.280 um one of at least, and a lot of stuff 0:43:50.280 --> 0:43:52.560 we've been reading. Now. One con that I love that 0:43:52.640 --> 0:43:55.719 you brought up was the idea that of the price, 0:43:55.800 --> 0:43:58.880 of course will balloon. And people have rightly said that 0:43:59.040 --> 0:44:01.759 there are some factors that are not taken in consideration here. 0:44:02.120 --> 0:44:06.680 I think that is up there with political political maneuver, 0:44:06.760 --> 0:44:07.960 and I think that is the thing that will be 0:44:08.080 --> 0:44:12.279 most likely to kill it. Another thing is um Now 0:44:12.640 --> 0:44:15.320 you know, I'm kind of like a softie. I'm a 0:44:15.360 --> 0:44:18.520 heart on my sleeve or whatever. Uh, this could be 0:44:18.680 --> 0:44:23.000 damaging to some communities or industries that rely upon that 0:44:23.280 --> 0:44:29.479 traffic to sustain their part of the problem. Exactly nail 0:44:29.560 --> 0:44:32.239 on the head. Now. Of course this could be a 0:44:32.320 --> 0:44:34.640 little bit dark for some people, but in the spirit 0:44:34.719 --> 0:44:39.560 of objectivity, we must mention this what happens when there's 0:44:39.560 --> 0:44:41.959 an accident. What happens if we already have a sunk 0:44:42.080 --> 0:44:45.759 cost of billions of dollars and then there's a disaster. Yeah, 0:44:45.800 --> 0:44:50.120 because if the capsule has a failure inside it, you're 0:44:50.120 --> 0:44:53.880 talking about a low pressure system, it's much higher pressure 0:44:53.920 --> 0:44:57.600 inside the capsule. You just like an experience of being 0:44:57.640 --> 0:45:00.719 in a plane at a high enough altitude, You've got 0:45:00.840 --> 0:45:03.799 very low pressure outside, higher pressure inside. If there's a breach, 0:45:03.880 --> 0:45:07.360 then everything gets blown out and there's a there is 0:45:07.520 --> 0:45:10.600 a line of well, if you think about an entire 0:45:10.719 --> 0:45:14.799 loop of other capsules two minutes behind, So if there 0:45:15.040 --> 0:45:18.239 is any sort of failure of the propulsion system, then 0:45:18.320 --> 0:45:20.800 you could end up having a collision. If there's a 0:45:20.880 --> 0:45:23.680 failure of the propulsion system in the sense of deceleration, 0:45:23.840 --> 0:45:27.120 then you could have injuries as the capsule gets to 0:45:27.200 --> 0:45:30.440 its stopping point. There are a lot of safety questions. 0:45:30.440 --> 0:45:32.320 I mean you're talking especially if some talk about capsule's 0:45:32.360 --> 0:45:35.719 leaving every two minutes. That thing literally has to run 0:45:35.840 --> 0:45:38.280 like clockwork like. It would have to be so efficient. 0:45:38.840 --> 0:45:41.160 You would have to have a very secure system to 0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:44.080 slow down capsules and maybe have them in a little 0:45:44.120 --> 0:45:48.200 waiting area along one section of the loop before uh, 0:45:48.320 --> 0:45:52.080 the previous capsule is completely unloaded, because again, depending upon 0:45:52.760 --> 0:45:55.400 who is in that capsule, it may take longer than average, 0:45:55.520 --> 0:45:57.319 or you know, it may not take that long at all. 0:45:57.719 --> 0:46:00.520 And that whole thing has to be set up so 0:46:00.640 --> 0:46:03.479 that you know, you don't have any safety concerns. That's huge. 0:46:03.640 --> 0:46:06.880 The software would have to be as innovative as the 0:46:07.000 --> 0:46:10.320 two idea itself, because you have to be continual security. 0:46:10.440 --> 0:46:13.359 I'm not seeing it's impossible man, it's just hard. It's 0:46:13.440 --> 0:46:15.320 just hard, that's the thing is. And then you know, 0:46:15.600 --> 0:46:19.399 humans have done some stuff that's really freaking hard. Yeah, 0:46:19.480 --> 0:46:23.319 and the Musk has sent people into space. So it's 0:46:23.360 --> 0:46:25.880 not that it's not that we're saying that it's impossible 0:46:25.920 --> 0:46:28.759 to do, but you know it, we definitely have to 0:46:28.880 --> 0:46:31.320 keep the challenges in mind in order for us to 0:46:31.440 --> 0:46:34.279 meet those challenges, Like, even from the optimistic side, you've 0:46:34.280 --> 0:46:36.719 got to acknowledge it so that way you're prepared to 0:46:36.920 --> 0:46:39.640 overcome them. If you don't acknowledge them, then you're just 0:46:40.080 --> 0:46:44.560 it's just a ticking time bomb. Really. Hey, it's twenty Jonathan. Again, 0:46:44.560 --> 0:46:47.560 we're gonna loop on into this episode so that we 0:46:47.600 --> 0:46:58.800 can take another quick break. Okay, So we've talked about 0:46:59.160 --> 0:47:02.320 Musk and his influence. We've talked about his idea of 0:47:02.360 --> 0:47:06.080 the hyperloop and how it would work assuming everything went 0:47:06.200 --> 0:47:08.520 as planned. We talked about the pros and cons. Let's 0:47:08.560 --> 0:47:11.799 talk about some of the other systems out there. We've 0:47:11.840 --> 0:47:15.120 mentioned a little bit about Maglev trains, and I've done 0:47:15.160 --> 0:47:17.279 an episode about Maglev trains, so I don't want to 0:47:17.320 --> 0:47:20.960 go over it too much, but it is, like we said, 0:47:21.000 --> 0:47:24.480 a similar idea, this idea of having a train that 0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:28.360 doesn't actually sit down on wheels, at least not the 0:47:28.560 --> 0:47:32.000 entire way on. Whenever it's at a station, it would 0:47:32.000 --> 0:47:36.120 be down on the track, wheels to the track, and 0:47:36.239 --> 0:47:39.719 then once it leaves the station, magnets would end up 0:47:40.280 --> 0:47:43.760 creating a repulsive force against one another. And they're different 0:47:43.840 --> 0:47:49.239 approaches to this. There's the electromagnetic suspension, there's electro dynamic suspension. UH. 0:47:49.320 --> 0:47:53.200 There's the induct tracks system, which is the permanent magnet 0:47:53.280 --> 0:47:55.719 passive suspension. There's all these different ways of doing it, 0:47:55.800 --> 0:47:59.439 but essentially the same idea arises. You're just using these 0:48:00.160 --> 0:48:04.480 magnets to push the train up over the rails and 0:48:04.600 --> 0:48:08.400 then to propel them down the track's length uh, and 0:48:08.480 --> 0:48:10.440 then also to slow them down when they get to 0:48:10.520 --> 0:48:12.399 where they need to be, where they can then come 0:48:12.440 --> 0:48:15.000 back down onto their wheels and come to a rolling stop. 0:48:15.120 --> 0:48:18.600 And these are these are also high speed. But how 0:48:18.760 --> 0:48:21.840 high speed are we talking in comparison to the hyperlop proposal. 0:48:21.920 --> 0:48:24.319 They're not as fast, mostly because most of them are 0:48:24.400 --> 0:48:27.719 not encapsulated in a tunnel with low air pressure. They 0:48:27.880 --> 0:48:32.120 tend to be out among the outside, so they still 0:48:32.200 --> 0:48:34.400 travel at an incredible speed because again, you don't have 0:48:34.400 --> 0:48:36.360 to worry about that friction. See, friction is not just 0:48:36.520 --> 0:48:39.760 something that slows you down. It means that you're losing energy. 0:48:40.120 --> 0:48:43.160 Because you're losing energy in the form of heat. Right, 0:48:43.200 --> 0:48:46.160 you're having to pour more energy into your vehicle to 0:48:46.280 --> 0:48:48.680 make it go the speed you want to compensate for 0:48:48.719 --> 0:48:51.560 the fact that you're losing energy and heat. By making 0:48:51.600 --> 0:48:54.400 it frictionless, not only can they go faster, but you 0:48:54.440 --> 0:48:56.680 don't have to pour as much energy into it because 0:48:56.680 --> 0:48:59.440 you're not losing so much in this this heat problem. 0:49:00.040 --> 0:49:03.800 There are other issues. For example, most maglev trains have 0:49:04.000 --> 0:49:07.960 to use superconductors because you know, actually they all use 0:49:08.000 --> 0:49:12.240 superconductors in order to generate these magnetic fields, and superconductors 0:49:12.280 --> 0:49:15.840 are not cheap and uh, most of them, although this 0:49:15.960 --> 0:49:18.600 has changed over the last couple of decades, most of 0:49:18.640 --> 0:49:23.240 them require being cooled to very, very very low temperatures. 0:49:23.239 --> 0:49:26.040 We're talking just a couple of degrees above absolute zero, 0:49:26.239 --> 0:49:28.879 so right, and that's not just to be clear, that's 0:49:28.960 --> 0:49:32.480 not something that happens every every so often or on 0:49:32.560 --> 0:49:36.279 a cycle that has to be continuous. Yeah, So you're 0:49:36.320 --> 0:49:38.560 talking about using something like liquid nitrogen to get it 0:49:38.640 --> 0:49:40.720 down to a certain temperature and then switching to liquid 0:49:40.760 --> 0:49:44.439 helium because liquid nitrogen is not cold enough. That being said, 0:49:44.480 --> 0:49:47.440 there are some supercolliders that have been developed since then, 0:49:48.080 --> 0:49:52.960 since they started building maglev trains that operate at higher temperatures, 0:49:53.080 --> 0:49:55.640 and by higher I still mean really really cold, just 0:49:55.760 --> 0:49:58.800 not just not as cold, right. So it's not like 0:49:59.280 --> 0:50:02.399 the deepest reaches of space cold, right, but it's way 0:50:02.520 --> 0:50:04.959 chillier than it gets in Minnesota and the winter cold. 0:50:05.360 --> 0:50:08.600 So um, you know, it's not it's not something that 0:50:08.719 --> 0:50:11.080 makes it. It makes it more expensive to operate. And 0:50:11.200 --> 0:50:15.439 so because of the expense of having to operate these 0:50:15.480 --> 0:50:19.319 not just operate them, but also build them. There there 0:50:19.400 --> 0:50:22.880 aren't as many maglev trains as you might imagine based 0:50:22.920 --> 0:50:26.279 upon their their initial appeal from the fact that they 0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:29.440 don't have as much fiction. There are maglev trains, there's 0:50:29.480 --> 0:50:32.080 not a lot of them. Some of them are just prototypes. Yes, 0:50:32.239 --> 0:50:35.320 some of them are just prototypes. And and for a while, 0:50:35.560 --> 0:50:39.400 to be honest, maglev trains seemed like they could be 0:50:39.480 --> 0:50:42.759 a candidate for this. There's this joke that you and 0:50:42.880 --> 0:50:45.000 I have made before off air, and that's gott I 0:50:45.080 --> 0:50:48.880 have made before off air that there's all this fantastic technology. Man, 0:50:49.120 --> 0:50:51.399 it's just ten years away. Yeah, it's always ten years 0:50:51.400 --> 0:50:54.040 ago whatever, right, you always are You're always just ten 0:50:54.080 --> 0:50:56.400 years away. Yeah, we make that same joke on forward 0:50:56.440 --> 0:50:59.759 thinking as well. Plug um. But yeah, so so the 0:51:00.120 --> 0:51:03.680 love trains their top speeds maybe somewhere between three and 0:51:05.680 --> 0:51:10.400 so that's still significantly slower than what the hyperloop would 0:51:10.640 --> 0:51:13.560 attain assuming it worked the way we think it's supposed to. Yeah, 0:51:13.640 --> 0:51:16.360 big difference being that maglev trains are wait for it 0:51:16.640 --> 0:51:20.160 real um. So that I think alone gives them some 0:51:20.640 --> 0:51:25.440 bonus points in my book. But also if we if 0:51:25.760 --> 0:51:30.160 we think about this, um, the the advantages that maglev 0:51:30.280 --> 0:51:34.399 trains have are um in comparison to the hyper loop. 0:51:35.400 --> 0:51:39.600 You have to ask yourself, does do those advantages make 0:51:39.680 --> 0:51:43.000 the maglev trains a more feasible option? You know? Is 0:51:43.080 --> 0:51:47.400 the advantage of extra speed uh preferable? I think the 0:51:47.680 --> 0:51:52.080 biggest advantage maglev trains have is not, uh, you know, 0:51:52.200 --> 0:51:54.280 in their operation, but the fact that we have proof 0:51:54.400 --> 0:51:57.560 of that it works, right, Like, we know that maglev 0:51:57.600 --> 0:52:01.120 trains work. So therefore that is a huge advantage over 0:52:01.200 --> 0:52:04.360 the hyper loop because that's something that from what we understand, 0:52:04.400 --> 0:52:06.399 it should work, assuming you built it the right way, 0:52:06.880 --> 0:52:08.879 but we don't have proof of it. Alright, So Ben, 0:52:08.960 --> 0:52:10.920 let's talk about this other guy. Have you heard about 0:52:11.120 --> 0:52:16.080 Darryl Auster. Darryl Auster, Yeah, he might be familiar. Why 0:52:16.160 --> 0:52:18.520 he proposed a system that would be a transportation system. 0:52:18.640 --> 0:52:23.400 It's a steel tube on some elevated structure, like on pylons, 0:52:24.000 --> 0:52:27.719 that would use linear electric motors to push capsules at 0:52:27.800 --> 0:52:32.839 high speed across vast distances. Um, might sound a little familiar. Yeah, Hey, 0:52:32.920 --> 0:52:35.440 I didn't. I didn't want to interrupt, but um, this 0:52:35.719 --> 0:52:39.040 this does sound a little bit familiar. Not to be 0:52:39.120 --> 0:52:41.320 a guy living in the past. But isn't this just 0:52:41.480 --> 0:52:44.440 what we've been talking about? Yeah? Yeah, like, um, like 0:52:44.600 --> 0:52:47.480 five minutes ago. Yes, this is exactly it's It's called 0:52:47.520 --> 0:52:51.040 the Evacuated Tube Transport System or e T three. Right, 0:52:51.160 --> 0:52:54.560 And didn't the ET three hit the news and hit 0:52:54.640 --> 0:53:00.279 the public sphere, uh before this hyper loop proposal? Yeah, 0:53:00.440 --> 0:53:04.200 well before it. And also Auster, interestingly enough, paid a 0:53:04.239 --> 0:53:08.680 little visit earlier this year to SpaceX, which is Um, 0:53:08.800 --> 0:53:10.480 I don't know if you know this, because we talked 0:53:10.480 --> 0:53:12.279 about at the top of the show, one of the 0:53:12.320 --> 0:53:15.560 things Musk does. It's the it's the ancient paths to 0:53:15.640 --> 0:53:17.960 Me now the top of the show. But the Yes, 0:53:18.360 --> 0:53:21.360 this is a very interesting point because this has fueled 0:53:21.440 --> 0:53:25.720 some uh, some speculation. Yes, yes, yeah, I would agree, 0:53:25.840 --> 0:53:28.360 that's a good word for it. So the speculation is 0:53:28.480 --> 0:53:33.279 essentially that perhaps either Musk knew about Auster's idea and 0:53:33.400 --> 0:53:37.200 essentially lifted it because other people had suggested that Auster was, 0:53:37.960 --> 0:53:41.560 for lack of a better word, whackadoodle um, or rather 0:53:41.719 --> 0:53:45.759 that his ideas were probably unrealistic and difficult to put 0:53:45.880 --> 0:53:50.320 into practice, he did not get the same consideration or 0:53:50.480 --> 0:53:54.120 street cred that that he encountered much more. Skepticism is 0:53:54.280 --> 0:53:57.360 right best way, and it's it's possible that Musk is 0:53:57.520 --> 0:54:00.960 exactly the right guy to go to about this sort 0:54:01.000 --> 0:54:03.640 of thing, because Musk has this already has this past 0:54:03.719 --> 0:54:07.640 of making these incredible accomplishments, things that some people might 0:54:07.719 --> 0:54:11.720 have called impossible before he achieved them. So, uh, there's 0:54:11.840 --> 0:54:16.480 some speculation that in fact Musk has licensed the technology 0:54:17.000 --> 0:54:19.920 or the design from Auster, and in fact Auster has 0:54:20.000 --> 0:54:23.920 said that there are people or organizations that are licensing 0:54:24.160 --> 0:54:27.200 his ideas but he does not go so far as 0:54:27.280 --> 0:54:29.880 to identify who they are. He says that that's up 0:54:29.960 --> 0:54:33.600 to them. It's their choice to come out and say, yes, 0:54:33.680 --> 0:54:36.560 I've licensed this technology from so and so. Yeah, and 0:54:36.680 --> 0:54:39.400 that's you see. I think we're being very fair about 0:54:39.480 --> 0:54:42.000 this because the only three things there are three things 0:54:42.080 --> 0:54:44.880 we know for sure. First, the design of hyperloop and 0:54:44.960 --> 0:54:53.319 et three very similar. Second, uh, the Darryl did visit SpaceX. Yes. Third, uh, 0:54:53.760 --> 0:54:57.400 Darryl did mention that there was licensing involved, But none 0:54:57.440 --> 0:54:59.880 of that even all of that together does not can 0:55:00.000 --> 0:55:04.480 eclusively prove anything. No, it's circumstantial. Circumstantial, So we call it. 0:55:04.800 --> 0:55:08.120 We call it speculation. And I'm gonna go ahead and 0:55:08.280 --> 0:55:11.520 call it interesting. Yes, I I will go so far 0:55:11.560 --> 0:55:16.040 as to say very interesting. I raise your interesting with 0:55:16.160 --> 0:55:19.160 a very um yeah. I think it would not surprise 0:55:19.239 --> 0:55:21.640 me to find out that Musk had heard of this 0:55:21.960 --> 0:55:24.400 and then thought it was a great idea, and that 0:55:24.640 --> 0:55:28.040 maybe together they realized that because of the resistance that 0:55:28.120 --> 0:55:30.560 Auster had faced when he was proposing his idea to 0:55:30.640 --> 0:55:33.760 other you know, like essentially outlets were like that's crazy. 0:55:34.080 --> 0:55:37.120 Then must goes forward and he says essentially the same 0:55:37.200 --> 0:55:42.680 thing and it's crazy awesome. Yeah. So so it's it's 0:55:42.760 --> 0:55:46.560 possible that this is in fact an evolution of Auster's idea. 0:55:46.680 --> 0:55:48.880 It could very well be that it's two people who 0:55:48.920 --> 0:55:52.680 thought the same thing independently. That has happened many, many, 0:55:52.840 --> 0:55:56.560 many times. It happened Tewriter, Yeah, it happened with it 0:55:56.680 --> 0:56:00.440 happened with calculus, that happened with lots of things, you know. 0:56:00.880 --> 0:56:05.000 So we're not going to jump to that conclusion, but 0:56:05.120 --> 0:56:08.799 it is interesting. Uh. And so you know, there are 0:56:08.800 --> 0:56:10.879 a couple of other things we can mention, like there's 0:56:10.920 --> 0:56:14.919 some other high speed technologies that could possibly come into play. 0:56:15.000 --> 0:56:18.880 But I think that that really it's down to the 0:56:18.920 --> 0:56:20.879 brass tacks, Ben. I think we have to sit down 0:56:21.640 --> 0:56:27.120 and actually predict will hyperloop come to pass or is 0:56:27.200 --> 0:56:30.680 it as you mentioned before, vapor ware, Get out of 0:56:30.719 --> 0:56:32.920 my head. You're reading my mind, man, because you're right, 0:56:33.280 --> 0:56:35.680 the time has come. Uh. I don't know if we 0:56:35.760 --> 0:56:38.160 have any dramatic music playing in the background, but it's 0:56:38.160 --> 0:56:41.600 in my head right now. Who should do the honors? Sir? 0:56:43.040 --> 0:56:45.160 You know what I'm gonna go first. I'm going to 0:56:45.400 --> 0:56:53.080 say that we will not see this become a transportation 0:56:53.360 --> 0:56:57.920 between Los Angeles and San Francisco, because the challenges of 0:56:58.120 --> 0:57:02.160 making sure that it will work properly and navigating those 0:57:02.200 --> 0:57:05.719 tricky political waters that are already so invested in a 0:57:05.920 --> 0:57:10.600 bullet train uh plan for those cities. I just think 0:57:10.640 --> 0:57:12.800 that's too great a challenge to overcome. I think that 0:57:13.680 --> 0:57:16.400 even if you were to prove the technology works, getting 0:57:16.480 --> 0:57:21.400 past that political barrier is a huge, huge task, right, Okay, 0:57:21.720 --> 0:57:25.080 So to dovetail onto that, I am going to also 0:57:25.160 --> 0:57:28.800 have a bit of a qualified prediction. I I predict, 0:57:29.000 --> 0:57:31.320 I want to be optimistic about this, that we're going 0:57:31.440 --> 0:57:35.800 to see something like the hyper loop in the future. However, 0:57:36.560 --> 0:57:39.360 I don't think it's going to be quite up to 0:57:39.440 --> 0:57:42.880 the specs that we've heard proposed, and I am also 0:57:43.280 --> 0:57:46.560 skeptical that it could be built in California at this juncture. 0:57:46.760 --> 0:57:48.840 You know, there's a reason that Google Fiber went to 0:57:48.920 --> 0:57:52.440 Kansas City, right, yeah, right, right, that's my prediction. I 0:57:52.480 --> 0:57:54.800 think that's fair something like it. And I will say 0:57:55.040 --> 0:57:59.280 that the hyper loop proposal is in many ways much 0:57:59.440 --> 0:58:04.520 more deserved than Auster's originally uh than his proposal, because 0:58:04.640 --> 0:58:07.160 Auster had said that he wanted this e T three 0:58:07.240 --> 0:58:09.600 system to be deployed throughout the United States, which means 0:58:09.640 --> 0:58:12.360 that you have interstate politics to deal within, not just 0:58:12.520 --> 0:58:16.000 within one state, right, You've got all these different states 0:58:16.080 --> 0:58:19.600 that you have to factor into that consideration, and that 0:58:19.760 --> 0:58:23.600 makes it way more complex. And that wraps up this 0:58:23.960 --> 0:58:28.080 classic episode of tech Stuff. I hope you guys enjoyed it. 0:58:28.680 --> 0:58:31.800 If you have any suggestions for future topics for current 0:58:31.840 --> 0:58:34.120 episodes of tech Stuff, reach out to me on Twitter. 0:58:34.240 --> 0:58:37.240 The handle is tech stuff h s W and I'll 0:58:37.240 --> 0:58:44.960 talk to you again really soon. Text Stuff is an 0:58:45.000 --> 0:58:48.640 I Heart Radio production. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, 0:58:49.000 --> 0:58:52.160 visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:58:52.280 --> 0:58:53.800 you listen to your favorite shows.