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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants huts. Let's go.

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Speaker 1: Let's go Giants. Dont come get on my Giants mobul

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Speaker 1: give me some joke. Part of the Giants Podcast Network.

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Speaker 2: Let's welcome to another episode of the Giants Little Podcast,

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Speaker 2: brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the

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Speaker 2: New York Football Giants. I am John Schmelck, and this

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Speaker 2: is a third or fourth straight year we've had him

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Speaker 2: on the show to talk about the NFL Draft. He

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Speaker 2: is Matt matticherryan former NFL scout And Matt, tell the

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Speaker 2: folks what you're doing now, who are you working for

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Speaker 2: your collaboration with the thirty third Team.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm working for SIS Sports Info Solutions, been here

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Speaker 3: seven and eight years now. But basically we put to

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Speaker 3: get We work with NFL teams. We provide them information

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Speaker 3: throughout the year and leading up to the draft, and

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Speaker 3: a lot of that same information obviously not as in

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Speaker 3: full detail as you'll get on the team side, but

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Speaker 3: that's available on the thirty third team dot com you

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Speaker 3: can check out. Basically, their whole draft experience is based

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Speaker 3: on our evaluations, which are based on two number one

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Speaker 3: in my background as a scout and the whole crew.

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Speaker 3: We have years and years of scouting experience collectively now

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Speaker 3: going through NFL style scouting reports, and then the other

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Speaker 3: part some of the really interesting data and metrics that

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Speaker 3: we that we bring to the picture.

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Speaker 2: What are some of the you know, I'll say that

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Speaker 2: for positions? So why why don't we dive right into

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Speaker 2: this then? And everyone wants to start with quarterback. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to lose my mind on it because I've

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Speaker 2: done a bunch of quarterback spots this week. But what

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Speaker 2: are some of the important metrics that you guys have

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Speaker 2: been able to quantify from the college game, which can

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Speaker 2: be so different than the pro game.

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Speaker 1: We incur one a on earlier in the week.

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Speaker 2: He told us that how these are, like, it's almost

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Speaker 2: two different sports. These guys are being asked to play

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Speaker 2: into the quarterback position. So what are some of the

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Speaker 2: metrics you look for a quarterback that you think are

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Speaker 2: predictive for an NFL success in college to carry on

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Speaker 2: to the pros.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a loaded question.

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Speaker 1: And oh yeah I know it is.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, Yeah, no, no, no, it's good. Quarterbacks are hard

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Speaker 3: and and in terms of the traits that we look

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Speaker 3: for for quarterbacks, definitely accuracy is the leader of the pack.

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Speaker 3: But also on top of that, you look for leadership,

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Speaker 3: You look for clutch performance, You look for the ability

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Speaker 3: to work through your progressions, you look for arm strength, athleticism.

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Speaker 3: All these things kind of add up into the pie.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think you're absolutely right that you can

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Speaker 3: get fooled a little bit by some of these college offenses.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: You think back to Zach Wilson and him just playing

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Speaker 3: really with no pressure whatsoever. It was almost like Reggie

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Speaker 3: Bush at USC, And it's not super surprising to see,

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Speaker 3: in my opinion, that he hasn't been able to handle

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Speaker 3: kind of the live bullets in the NFL the way

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Speaker 3: you might have hoped. So you got to look at

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Speaker 3: all the things together, and you got to take it

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Speaker 3: into context, and you got to give your best shot. Now,

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Speaker 3: the things that we find that are predictive are actually

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Speaker 3: sort of interesting and unexpected. So you might have heard

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Speaker 3: people say on the NFL, in the NFL level quarterback,

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Speaker 3: they're performance in a clean pocket is more predictive than

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Speaker 3: their performance when under pressure. But when you look at college,

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Speaker 3: you actually almost want to look at it exactly the

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Speaker 3: opposite way. When we're projecting not from one NFL season

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Speaker 3: to another NFL season, but we're projecting from college to

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Speaker 3: the pros. We actually find that you get a lot

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Speaker 3: of really good signal from what happens when the quarterback

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Speaker 3: is playing under pressure. Now, beyond that, all pressures are

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Speaker 3: not created equal, so you want to have an understanding

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Speaker 3: of that too. So how often are you creating pressure?

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Speaker 3: How much of it is on your offensive line because

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Speaker 3: they're blowing blocks, how much of it is because you're

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Speaker 3: holding the ball. So a couple of the contextual metrics

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Speaker 3: that I really like that you can find on the

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Speaker 3: thirty third team dot Com for quarterbacks are in the

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Speaker 3: rushing and timing section for quarterbacks. So if you pull

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Speaker 3: up Caleb Williams, you can see his throw time, throw

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Speaker 3: airtime plus minus and his snap to throw plus minus.

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Speaker 3: So what are these snap to throw plus minus is

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Speaker 3: based on the type of dropback that you had. It's

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Speaker 3: not everything that we know about the play. Was it

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Speaker 3: first and ten, was it third and one? All this

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Speaker 3: kind of stuff. We have an expected time to throw

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Speaker 3: that we have based on your drop type, and then

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Speaker 3: we can look at how you either took longer to

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Speaker 3: throw or you got the ball out of your hands

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Speaker 3: more quickly than that. Caleb Williams would be a guy

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Speaker 3: that would have a high positive snap to throw time,

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Speaker 3: which is to say he tends to hold onto the

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Speaker 3: ball a bit more.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 3: Again, it's not going to tell you is this going

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Speaker 3: to be a good quarterback or a bad quarterback, but

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Speaker 3: it'll tell you a little bit about what you're dealing

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Speaker 3: with here. When you have quarterbacks that hold on to

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Speaker 3: the ball longer, then we can say with relative predictive

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to say certainty, but accuracy, that you

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Speaker 3: will carry that trait with you into the NFL. Russell

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Speaker 3: Wilson was always going to be somebody who held onto

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Speaker 3: the ball a long time. He was going to get

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Speaker 3: sacked a little more because of that, but also have

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Speaker 3: some of the big plays. That's one of the metrics

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Speaker 3: that I really like there. The throw arm time, the

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Speaker 3: throw airtime. It does the same thing. It looks the

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Speaker 3: average deep out, the average bang eight, whatever route you're throwing.

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Speaker 3: It's adjusting for how far down the field you're throwing

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Speaker 3: it and what type of route it was and saying

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Speaker 3: how long did it take for the ball to get there.

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Speaker 3: So that's really an arm strength measure. So that's another

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Speaker 3: one where guys that can really zip it. You don't

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Speaker 3: really see that being something that you learn in the NFL.

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Speaker 3: You know your Kenny Pickett's, your Desmon Ridders. The guys

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Speaker 3: that don't have your Justin Justin Herbert type arms, these

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Speaker 3: are the guys that shows up for them. So really

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Speaker 3: just nitty gritty stuff that allows you not to just

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Speaker 3: have one number that's going to tell you if the

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Speaker 3: guy's going to be good or not, because that's unrealistic,

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Speaker 3: but to understand exactly what you're getting and be able

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Speaker 3: to understand all the specifics of it. I think that's

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Speaker 3: where the numbers really help.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 2: So you guys have Williams as your number one quarterback,

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Speaker 2: May as your second, relatively close in their rankings and

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Speaker 2: their grades. You have Williams is a seven, May is

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Speaker 2: a six point eight, so not that far away. They're

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Speaker 2: both towards the top of your board. Then you have

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Speaker 2: a bit of a gap down to Jayden Williams, Jayden

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Speaker 2: and Daniels. Part of me, who was your twenty fifth

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Speaker 2: ranked player? Why the gap between May and Daniels is

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Speaker 2: wide as it is when you take a look at

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Speaker 2: what Daniels did at LSU.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So in one sense, it's it's the grading scale

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Speaker 3: at work, and based on the criteria of the way

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Speaker 3: that we put together our scale, that's going to dictate

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Speaker 3: a lot of the a lot of the grades and

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Speaker 3: how that works right there. So really, when we talk about,

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Speaker 3: you know, Caleb, that seven point zero type grade player,

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Speaker 3: that's the type of player you a quarterback like that,

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Speaker 3: we're talking about somebody who's gonna be the number one

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Speaker 3: pick every year. Right, Drake Matt is six point eight,

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Speaker 3: So that six point seven to six point nine range

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Speaker 3: on our scale, these are our very good starters in

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Speaker 3: the NFL. These are the starters that are the reason

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Speaker 3: why we win games. Maybe not a first year pro bowler,

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Speaker 3: but but but really strong parts of your team. We

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Speaker 3: see may as that six point eight, which no matter

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Speaker 3: what grades you have on other players, that's basically unless

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Speaker 3: you have a seven point zero type quarterback, that's gonna

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Speaker 3: mean that you're basically our second pick. Right. Guys can

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Speaker 3: have higher grades without being ranked as highly. So that's

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Speaker 3: where it gets a little bit tricky, right, But what

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Speaker 3: ends up happening on our board is we had a

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Speaker 3: lot of players in the six to eight range and

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Speaker 3: in the six seven range, and May was really at

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Speaker 3: the top end of the of the six eighths and

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Speaker 3: Daniels was closer to the lower end of the six sevens.

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Speaker 3: All that that's really saying there is we have more

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Speaker 3: confidence in the projection for Drake May. Again, you look

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Speaker 3: at what he's demonstrated on film, combined with the fact

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Speaker 3: that he's a bit of a younger prospect, combined with

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Speaker 3: the traits and the traits like justin Herbert, like when

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Speaker 3: you look at Drake May, you talk about size, you

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Speaker 3: talk about arm strength, you talk about deep accuracy, you

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Speaker 3: talk about athleticism. This is this is somebody who has

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Speaker 3: every tool in his belt, just not not as demonstrated

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Speaker 3: and not as kind of special and supernatural as you

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Speaker 3: see with Caleb Williams. Sometimes Daniels, I think he's a

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Speaker 3: one or two read quarterback and then he can run

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Speaker 3: with it. I certainly think he's a much better prospect

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Speaker 3: than like a Lake Willis. You can play with this quarterback.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, your theme in the NFL. This is not

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Speaker 3: what we're talking about there. But I don't see the

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Speaker 3: high level arm talent, and I don't see kind of

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Speaker 3: the upside that you have with those first two guys.

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Speaker 3: As it pertains to Daniels. The other thing too, you know,

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Speaker 3: he's been in college for a while, he's had ups

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Speaker 3: and downs. This this past season, you couldn't have imagined

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Speaker 3: a better offensive situation to be in, right, So, going

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Speaker 3: back to what I said before about Zach Wilson and

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Speaker 3: how that can be tricky, I think you're looking at

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Speaker 3: some great receivers. You're looking at probably two first round

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Speaker 3: tackles next year on that offense. There were a lot

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Speaker 3: of things that made that a nice situation for him.

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Speaker 2: The all you percent agree with you, I'm with you,

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Speaker 2: and I basically see those three guys the exact same way,

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Speaker 2: by the way, So we're on the exact same page

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Speaker 2: on those three guys, and I think our evaluation is

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Speaker 2: very similar. Now we drop all way down to your

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Speaker 2: six to four on your scale, which is the higher

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Speaker 2: end of the limited starter or multi positional backup group.

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Speaker 2: So I imagine in the NFL this is probably would you

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Speaker 2: would consider probably a lower end starting quarterback somewhere in

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Speaker 2: the fifteen to maybe twenty to thirty range or so.

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Speaker 2: And you have Pennix and McCarthy both in that group.

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Speaker 2: What is it about those two guys where some people

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Speaker 2: have McCarthy as a top ten some people really like

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Speaker 2: Pennix as a top fifteen guy. Why are you guys

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Speaker 2: not as high on those two quarterbacks?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean they might get pushed off the boards.

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Speaker 3: These are quarterbacks, right, I just said. It may might

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Speaker 3: be a six point eight, but he would be the

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Speaker 3: second player that you know, if SIS was drafting, he'd

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Speaker 3: probably be the second player off the board. Of course,

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Speaker 3: you know you have a hard time passing on that

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Speaker 3: Marvin Harrison Junior. But that would be fun. It'd be

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Speaker 3: a fun little decision to have. These are guys, like

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Speaker 3: you said, they're a little bit more limited starters to

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Speaker 3: kind of high quality backups, guys that if you have

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Speaker 3: them as your quarterback you might be looking to replace them.

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Speaker 3: That's sort of the grain range that where these we

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Speaker 3: see these quarterbacks by their second year in the league.

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Speaker 3: McCarthy's been the one that hasn't surprised me at all

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Speaker 3: that we've seen him really shoot up the charts. Because

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Speaker 3: we really do our evaluations off of film, and based

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Speaker 3: off of the film, I don't see how you could

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Speaker 3: come up any higher than a six point four type grade.

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Speaker 3: I just don't think it's been demonstrated. But the things

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Speaker 3: that you're going to see with McCarthy, he's young, so

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Speaker 3: the upside's there. Apparently everybody that puts him on the

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Speaker 3: board and has a chance to engage with him and

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Speaker 3: from a leader all that kind of stuff. People have

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Speaker 3: the opportunity to fall in love with him. And if

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Speaker 3: you really need a quarterback and you know that those

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Speaker 3: first three are kind of unrealistic for you, or in

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Speaker 3: my opinion, even more so the first two. I can

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Speaker 3: see how teams might fall in love with him. I

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Speaker 3: can see how a Minnesota Vikings would be there saying, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we have the right infrastructure to bring this sort of

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Speaker 3: a player in and we can get Kirk Cousins light

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Speaker 3: for a rookie contract and play like that. I can

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Speaker 3: see that sort of stuff, And I don't want to

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Speaker 3: bet against him because he's young and he's got a

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Speaker 3: lot of the tools for the upside. I just haven't

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Speaker 3: seen it yet. So that's what separates him from those

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Speaker 3: other guys. For me. Pennix is almost the opposite side

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Speaker 3: of this of the same coin. He's old and he's

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Speaker 3: got an injury history, but everything he put on film

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Speaker 3: this last year was everything that you'd want to see.

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Speaker 3: Things that I don't love about him. I think that

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Speaker 3: his release is a little bit yanky. I usually don't

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Speaker 3: get too concerned about what it sort of looks like

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Speaker 3: when players throw the ball. I care about where the

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Speaker 3: ball goes, and he's got great, deep accuracy, there's no

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Speaker 3: slighting that. But I do get concerned sometimes because I

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Speaker 3: think he gets elongated and I don't think it's a

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Speaker 3: it's a clean, repeatable motion every time that we sort

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Speaker 3: of see from him. He definitely surprised with some of

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Speaker 3: the athletic testing that was better than I expected that

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Speaker 3: he would do. But even so, if you're gonna go

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Speaker 3: for a penix in this case, you might you might

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Speaker 3: feel comfortable with what you're getting right off the bat.

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Speaker 3: But I do think that there's a little bit of

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Speaker 3: concern on the medical front, which which obviously I don't

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Speaker 3: have the you know, the behind the scenes insight on,

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Speaker 3: and then a little bit on the age front, because

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Speaker 3: you've got to understand that this is a player that's

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Speaker 3: that's gonna have less upside for development than a McCarthy

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Speaker 3: or than a may Bear.

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Speaker 2: Let's go to wide receiver here, Matt, and you have

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Speaker 2: your top three the same way I do, Harrison and

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Speaker 2: Neighbors right at the top, neck and neck. You have

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Speaker 2: a Duneesa right below them, awesome category, just a little

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Speaker 2: step below. I see him the same way. I want

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Speaker 2: to go into your next group. This is your six

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Speaker 2: seven groups. This is a high level starter group. And

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Speaker 2: you have Brian Thomas Junior there, but you also have

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Speaker 2: Keon Coleman there. And I'm curious what sets Keon Coleman

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Speaker 2: apart for you guys. Are there metrics that jump out

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Speaker 2: to you? Because I gotta be honest and I watch them,

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Speaker 2: I don't see the level of separation that I need

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Speaker 2: to see on a consistent basis for him to be

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Speaker 2: ranked this high on my personal board.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you might get a little bit of a Kelvin

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Speaker 3: Benjamin deja vu watching him, a little bit, a little.

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Speaker 2: Bit a little benjaminber a little of a coon treadwell,

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Speaker 2: if you want to go that far, maybe.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I'm with you there. I don't see a

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Speaker 3: guy that's Scott Obviously, he doesn't have great speed. He

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Speaker 3: has good speed, not great speed. I'm not so concerned

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Speaker 3: about the testing and that sort of stuff. Don't see

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Speaker 3: somebody who's a great route runner, somebody who's separating super consistently,

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Speaker 3: Like you said, but I really like this player as

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Speaker 3: an athlete, not just as a speed You're not like

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Speaker 3: the speed the separator, but the athleticism. I think when

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Speaker 3: you watch this guy play, you see his ability to

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Speaker 3: use his physicality along with his movement skills, along with

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Speaker 3: kind of just being a baller that knows how to

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Speaker 3: go out there, win at the catchpoint, get the ball

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Speaker 3: into the end zone. I see him as somebody who

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Speaker 3: if you're looking for that take the top off the

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Speaker 3: defense role, that's not your guy right here. But if

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Speaker 3: you're looking for somebody who's more like one of these

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Speaker 3: forty nine ers receivers, somebody who can come in do

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Speaker 3: the dirty work, but then also provide some explosiveness to

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Speaker 3: your offense with the ball in his hands, with the

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Speaker 3: run after catch ability that we really like to see.

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Speaker 3: That's what excites me most about about Coleman.

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Speaker 1: Question.

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Speaker 2: I have that one for you, the way you just

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Speaker 2: describe them. What do you think of the Michael Thomas

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Speaker 2: from the Saints comp.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I can see that sort of thing. I think

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Speaker 3: there's a little bit more. No, Yeah, I think that's

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Speaker 3: a fair comparison. I don't see this player as being

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Speaker 3: as good as as peak Michael Thomas. I think that,

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Speaker 3: you know, we'd be talking about him didn't even higher

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Speaker 3: grade if that were the case. But but some of

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Speaker 3: that skill set, yeah, some of that dirty work ability,

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Speaker 3: some of this stuff that gave Davis gets involved in

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Speaker 3: your offense and has the capability to do. I mentioned

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Speaker 3: the Niners wide receivers. I think of Robert Woods, So

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Speaker 3: I see this guy is really the Z in terms

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Speaker 3: of your you know, if you're running a West coast

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Speaker 3: you have your X Y Z. This would be your

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Speaker 3: flanker receiver. This wouldn't be your guy that you necessarily

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Speaker 3: just want lined up solo against the best corner on

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Speaker 3: the other team. I think he can do a little

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Speaker 3: bit of that. But I think where this player gets

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Speaker 3: more exciting is involving him more in the action of

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Speaker 3: your offense and that sort of a thing. You love turf,

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Speaker 3: you're good at it, So you start a turf fiz.

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Speaker 1: Business grows, your savings grow, become the most celebrated name

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Speaker 1: in turf. Are you ready for all that life.

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Speaker 2: Brings that makes sense. I was surprised when I took

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Speaker 2: a look at your draft board. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: they have a big board on the website, the thirty thirteen.

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Speaker 2: Excuse me, they also have a horizontal and vertical draft board,

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Speaker 2: which I love because the shows kind of where they

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Speaker 2: stack in terms of positions and then they relate it

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Speaker 2: back to the other group. And I think it's a

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Speaker 2: fantastic layout that that's out there. You guys really need

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Speaker 2: to go check that out. And again, all that's based

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Speaker 2: on the SIS scouting process.

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Speaker 1: Are you maybe you think a little bit lower on

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Speaker 1: the second part of this receiver group than other people

339
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Speaker 1: because you don't have anybody in that low end starter

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Speaker 1: group from the six five to six to sixth grade

341
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Speaker 1: on your scale, but you stack it up twelve of

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Speaker 1: them in your limited starter group.

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Speaker 2: So I was surprised maybe some of those guys didn't

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Speaker 2: get pushed up into that, you know, lower end starter

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Speaker 2: group in that six five sixty six range.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a great question. The scale is

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Speaker 3: rigid when it comes to what we can do in

348
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Speaker 3: terms of are you a two or are you a

349
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Speaker 3: three in terms of a wide receiver. So if we

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Speaker 3: believe that you're a legitimate number one or number two

351
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Speaker 3: starting wide receiver on a Super Bowl caliber team, you'll

352
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Speaker 3: be at that six seven ranger above. Right, that's what

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Speaker 3: we're saying about Kean Coleman. If easier two, you can

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Speaker 3: compete for a Super Bowl. The rest of these guys,

355
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Speaker 3: we feel like are more number threes. There are more

356
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Speaker 3: guys that for us, that would mean you're basically a

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Speaker 3: starter level, right. We know that most teams play eleven

358
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Speaker 3: personnel most of the time. Sure, basically a starter level,

359
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Speaker 3: but you're probably a little bit limited in terms of

360
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Speaker 3: being either ideally an inside guy or ideally an outside

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Speaker 3: guy as opposed to we like the six seven and

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Speaker 3: above grades to be able to do both. So that's

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Speaker 3: one of the things that's going on there. The other

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Speaker 3: thing is the horizontal board does a great job because

365
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Speaker 3: if you're in a draft room, you see the horizontal board,

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Speaker 3: and otherwise you're just looking at whatever Kuiper has on

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Speaker 3: TV and stuff like that, and it's more of just

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Speaker 3: like a list of players and then separated out by

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Speaker 3: a position. But if you can see the texture, every

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Speaker 3: single draft room I've ever been in, you have a

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Speaker 3: lot of receivers and you have a lot of running

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Speaker 3: backs on the board. It just has to do with

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Speaker 3: the types of athletes that exist on this earth. It's

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Speaker 3: just you get more people that are two hundred to

375
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Speaker 3: two hundred twenty pounds than that are three hundred and

376
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Speaker 3: twenty pounds and athletic. So offensive line is always something

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Speaker 3: where I'm looking at, especially at tackle, where you got

378
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Speaker 3: to get them earlier. You're not going to get them.

379
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Speaker 3: You're not gonna find starting caliber players past day two,

380
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Speaker 3: sometimes past day one. Now, what you notice when you

381
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,800
Speaker 3: look at the horizontal board this year, which allows you

382
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,160
Speaker 3: to see kind of the vertical and horizontal everything compares.

383
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Speaker 3: We have a class of offensive tackles that I've never

384
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Speaker 3: seen before. We see tons of those guys to the

385
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Speaker 3: point where I can see ten guys going on the

386
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Speaker 3: first day, and that wouldn't surprise me in terms of

387
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,920
Speaker 3: offensive linemen. But also that's because in the league right now,

388
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Speaker 3: we still have scarcity at that position. There might be

389
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 3: a lot this year, but generally there's scarcity in the NFL.

390
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Speaker 3: We've had so many good receivers come into the NFL

391
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Speaker 3: right away. Do you remember, like ten years ago, we

392
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Speaker 3: used to say it's going to take into at least

393
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Speaker 3: their third year. For wide receivers to really get in

394
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,960
Speaker 3: any walk into the league, you're Jamar Chase right, like,

395
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Speaker 3: that's what we're looking for now. So because of that,

396
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Speaker 3: I think it's even harder to earn a six seven

397
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Speaker 3: and above grade as a receiver in today's NFL. I

398
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,520
Speaker 3: think because the talent's gotten so good there, we're always

399
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Speaker 3: comparing these players to what they're going to be in

400
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 3: the NFL. Basically, what we're saying is all of these

401
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,159
Speaker 3: guys that we've got in that number three range, we

402
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,359
Speaker 3: don't really think they're better than the sixty fourth best

403
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:07,199
Speaker 3: receiver in the league or somewhere around that range. So

404
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,360
Speaker 3: that's I think part of it is as there continue

405
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 3: to be more and more not just receivers, but also

406
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,200
Speaker 3: really good receivers, it becomes even harder to earn one

407
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 3: of those really high grades as the receiver year over

408
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,399
Speaker 3: year over year. And that's just the development of it.

409
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've never heard of put that way before. I

410
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 1: think that's interesting.

411
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,159
Speaker 2: So basically the grading scale has almost been inflated a

412
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,639
Speaker 2: little bit right where you have to hit a higher

413
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,119
Speaker 2: standard to be considered a low end started because there

414
00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,199
Speaker 2: are so many quality wide receivers in the league. I

415
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 2: think that's interesting. I never thought about it that way.

416
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 2: I think that's a good way to look at it.

417
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,240
Speaker 2: You mentioned the offensive tackle class. You have Joe Alt

418
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,200
Speaker 2: at the top. I'm not surprised. I love the fact

419
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,639
Speaker 2: that you have Laitham as your second guy. To be

420
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 2: honest with you, I think you watch his tape. He

421
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 2: just uses those long arms to lock guys out, and

422
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,880
Speaker 2: he just vice scripts them and they can't go anywhere.

423
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Speaker 2: You have fashion Neu there you a fuanga gaiden. I

424
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 2: want to lock in on the guiding part of this

425
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Speaker 2: because I do feel like he's a little raw mat

426
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Speaker 2: and I wonder if I would have him closer to

427
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 2: the mems sua Matilla group, just because I feel like

428
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:13,680
Speaker 2: he needs a lot of work with his hands, even

429
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,400
Speaker 2: though athletically, I mean, he might be the most athletic

430
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,480
Speaker 2: guy in this whole class at offensive tackle with the

431
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 2: way he moves his feet.

432
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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, we're splitting hairs a little bit here.

433
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Speaker 3: We're at the six seventh grade versus the sixth sixth grade.

434
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Speaker 3: I think the consistency is definitely a concern there. The

435
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 3: athletic upside is as absolutely ridiculous. The play strength is

436
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:41,040
Speaker 3: is really strong. You mentioned Kingsley, You're going to try

437
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 3: to say his last name, Sue.

438
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,880
Speaker 1: Mattalia, s Matia. I believe Sue.

439
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,160
Speaker 3: Matilla, or as we'd like to call him, Pine Sewel's cousin.

440
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,880
Speaker 3: He's another guy. He's another guy three years in college,

441
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 3: absolutely ridiculous, Like Pina Sewell, athletic traits like not not

442
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,399
Speaker 3: even exaggerating. He's got very similar.

443
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:02,680
Speaker 1: And he's also a nasty son of a gun.

444
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 2: By the way, he is the exact type of like

445
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,359
Speaker 2: prototype personality you would want to see out there playing

446
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 2: a lot.

447
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 1: He buries people on rue place.

448
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 3: He yeah, when he hits him, he buries him. Unfortunately

449
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 3: he misses a lot toot. That's what I wanted to

450
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 3: get back to is the inconsistency with both of these

451
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 3: players is the only thing keeping them from being elite

452
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 3: elite prospects. If these guys had put it together at

453
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 3: this point, I'm with you, so you know, we have

454
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 3: a slight edge to guide you over over Kingsley. You know,

455
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,439
Speaker 3: I was concerned about things with both of them and

456
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 3: also incredibly excited, and it's it's one of these things

457
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 3: where you feel like you're betweaking o rock and a

458
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,160
Speaker 3: hard place when you're right in their grade, because because

459
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 3: it could go either way, it really could.

460
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 2: No, And it's hard and I've I've done boards the

461
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 2: last few years of that, I've never actually done like

462
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 2: numerical grades on each guy.

463
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: I've tried to start doing it this year. It's hard

464
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 1: to try to parse and I believe it or not.

465
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 2: I use the same scale that land Zeer Line uses

466
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,479
Speaker 2: for NFL dot com, which is very similar to what

467
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 2: your scale is in terms of where these guys land,

468
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 2: and just differentiating like oh, six eight seven versus six '

469
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 2: eight four.

470
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,400
Speaker 1: It's it's a very very.

471
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 2: Tough exercise, just just so fans understand how tough this

472
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 2: is to do and parse these guys and just understanding

473
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 2: what you value more than other things.

474
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: It's hard. Mims.

475
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 2: I think he's fascinating, not a lot of tape. Hasn't

476
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 2: played a lot of football, but my gosh, the tape

477
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,120
Speaker 2: he has. Try to help me find the bad pass

478
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 2: pro set with this guy, because I don't know if

479
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 2: it's out there. It's phenomenal, but there's just not a

480
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 2: lot of experience as an injury history. I mean, would

481
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 2: it surprised me if in two years of Marius Mims

482
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 2: is the best offensive tackle in this class.

483
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:42,880
Speaker 1: It wouldn't, to be quite honest with.

484
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 3: You, Yeah, another absolute mammoth giant. I get a little

485
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 3: bit more worried about about the athleticism here. I see

486
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 3: somebody who's powerful, who's finisher, all that kind of stuff,

487
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 3: and like, the arm length is ridiculous. It's like stretch

488
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 3: armstrong type arm length when it comes to him. So

489
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,400
Speaker 3: I'm with you and seeing the upside with him. Where

490
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 3: I worry is more the reactive athleticism. Like if this

491
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 3: is going to be a good NFL player, he'll have

492
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 3: to be a little bit more like a Morgan Moses

493
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 3: type in terms of like it's never gonna look super

494
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 3: pretty when he's moving around out there, but god bless

495
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 3: you if you can get around this guy, you know

496
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 3: what I mean. Like, So, man, I think Alt is

497
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 3: a special, special prospect. That's the only reason why it

498
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 3: would surprise me if he was the best tackle in

499
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 3: this group. But you know, short of that, you know,

500
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 3: it's kind of like when you talk about Marvin Harrison Junior.

501
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, Neighbors is an unbelievable receiver prospect. There's

502
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 3: just this guy who's the best receiver prospect in twenty years,

503
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 3: who's coming out in the same year, you know.

504
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: So you have all like he would be ahead of Sewell,

505
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: he would be ahead of Andrew Thomas, he'd be ahead

506
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: of I'm trying to think of what some of.

507
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 3: The right in that range. Unfortunately, I wrote up Evan Neil,

508
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 3: and I thought he would be a good NFL player.

509
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 3: He'd be right in the range of that area too.

510
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: Matt, so did I.

511
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 2: I mean, I think all of us are kind of

512
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 2: surprised that Neil struggled the way he has, to be

513
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 2: honest with you, So hopefully he'll be able to turn that.

514
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 2: He's he's only played in twenty two NFL games. Hopefully

515
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 2: he'll have the opportunity to turn things around there.

516
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 3: All right, So that Andrew Thomas track whatever whatever flipped

517
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 3: from year one to year two for Andrew Thomas, Let's

518
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 3: get that in year two to year three.

519
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 1: No, I dude, I'm with you one hundred percent.

520
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 2: Why do you thaught Tanu as a guard center instead

521
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 2: of an offensive tackle Because all the measurements, the testing,

522
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 2: the performance frankly at Washington tell me that he should

523
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: be able to play offensive tackle on the pros.

524
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, so for us, it's not a matter of we

525
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 3: think you can only do this or you can only

526
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 3: do that. We see him as somebody who could potentially

527
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 3: play guard or tackle on the NFL level. I think

528
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 3: what we try to do is we try to put

529
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 3: you at what we think your best position is, got

530
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 3: it and so so really we think that's where he

531
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 3: would be at his best. And it's worth remembering too

532
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 3: that it's not like tackle is point blank more valuable

533
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 3: than guards the way that it was a few years

534
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 3: ago in the NFL, depending on where you go, depending

535
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 3: on if you have some of these shorter, more athletic quarterbacks.

536
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 3: Having that strength up the middle has become kind of

537
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 3: a common way to build things and a smart way

538
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 3: to build things. You know, look at the Chiefs, for example,

539
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 3: that's where it really where they're strong is right is

540
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 3: right up that center group. It's the old Drew Brees

541
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 3: coming from my New Orleans days, having the two really

542
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 3: good guards to make sure that you were keeping the

543
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 3: pocket where it needs to be. So for that reason,

544
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 3: having somebody that can handle the things that move around

545
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 3: really quickly on the inside, not have to reset, not

546
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 3: have to to always be kind of in a deep set,

547
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 3: but also the ability to short set people, all that

548
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 3: kind of stuff. I like the variety that he plays with.

549
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 3: I like the athleticism that he plays with. And it's

550
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 3: for me. It's not one of these guys that, ah,

551
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 3: he doesn't have what it takes to be a tackle.

552
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 3: Let's just move him inside. He's one of these guys

553
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 3: who I'm like, man, I think he's really special as

554
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 3: a guard and could also play tackle, maybe like Tyler

555
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 3: Smith when you look about at in Dallas, like that

556
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 3: that sort of arc type.

557
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 1: That makes sense.

558
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 2: All right, let let let let's dig here a little

559
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 2: bit into day two because the Giants have some positions

560
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 2: of need where it looks like you have some pretty

561
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 2: good depth there for them to hit.

562
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 1: But first to reminder of the Giants.

563
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 2: Huddle is brought to you by Citizens, the official bank

564
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 2: of the Giants from Game Dead every Day. Citizens has

565
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 2: made ready for Giant fans with insights, guidance, and solutions.

566
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,239
Speaker 2: Learn more at Citizens bank dot com. So let's take

567
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: a look here, Matt at Day two guards. Since we're

568
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 2: on the offensive line, let's start there first. You have

569
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: a pretty thick group here. Assuming Barton slides into round one,

570
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 2: you got guys like Dominic Pooney, Zach Frazier is probably

571
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: more of a center, Christian Hayes from Yukon, bo Limmer

572
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,959
Speaker 2: more of a center from Arkansas, Christian Mahogany Boston College,

573
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 2: Hunter Norzad from Penn State.

574
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: You have a pretty thick group here.

575
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 2: If you want to try to pick up a guarden

576
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 2: around two or three, it looks like, Yeah, I.

577
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 3: Think that the nature of the way that the the

578
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 3: lineman being just so such a great year this year,

579
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 3: the way that it's shaped out is a lot of

580
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 3: the teams that are looking for those bookend tackles, they're

581
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 3: gonna be looking at some of those guys that we

582
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 3: talked aut talked about, you know, in the first round

583
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 3: and what you're gonna end up with. You know, even

584
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 3: if you have the ten guys going the first round,

585
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 3: there are still gonna be players that are gonna be

586
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 3: there in the second and third round. So it's really

587
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 3: exciting as a scout because going back to before right,

588
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 3: you can imagine most years you get to to day

589
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 3: three and it's a lot of running backs and receivers

590
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 3: and not a lot of the you know, the the

591
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 3: tackles and corners and some of those building block positions.

592
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 3: This year, you're gonna get there. On the second hand,

593
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 3: you're gonna say, wow, there are people that we like

594
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 3: to start that we can get not just in the

595
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 3: second round, but potentially in the third round. So I

596
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 3: think it just has to do with how things shook

597
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 3: out this year and the amount of depth that there

598
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 3: really is at that position. For me, I sometimes picture

599
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 3: if I was in a with a team right now,

600
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 3: I would have a hard time not drafting like lineman

601
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 3: lineman linemen. Yeah, in certain situations.

602
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: Here, No, I'm with you.

603
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 2: Any metrics before we move on from the offensive lineman

604
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: that you guys have, whether it's pressure rate, a LAD

605
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: or any other customizings you guys have come up with

606
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 2: that you find can be predictive for an offensive lineman

607
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 2: and his success moving forward.

608
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 3: So we rolled out a new offensive line scouting data

609
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 3: collection this year, and what that meant was we basically

610
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 3: split the split the gap in between our normal scouting operation,

611
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 3: which is very much based on how how teams operate

612
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 3: and you know, individuals watching film and following a grading scale,

613
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 3: we kind of split that and merged it with what

614
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 3: we're really known for and what we what we more

615
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 3: work with the teams on, which is our objective data

616
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 3: collection of all the things that are happening on the field.

617
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 3: And what we came up with is something where for

618
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 3: every snap that the top ten offensive lineman in this

619
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 3: year's draft played, we looked at every snap this year

620
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,959
Speaker 3: and last year, the last two years of film, and

621
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 3: as opposed to just looking at were they successful unsuccessful

622
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 3: these sorts of things, we were able to look further

623
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 3: and understand what skills they were displaying as they were

624
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 3: playing on film, So we might talk about athletic ability

625
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 3: and upper body strength and react to athleticism. Well, we

626
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 3: actually charted those things across two seasons for each of

627
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 3: these players. Wow, and without getting you know, too far

628
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 3: into you know, into the details, but like you'll see

629
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 3: some things that you might have expected. Right. Like you

630
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 3: mentioned to Graham Barton before, what jumped out when you

631
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 3: look at his numbers wasn't oh he's great, oh he's terrible.

632
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 3: It was this is a power player. This is a

633
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 3: guy to draft if you want him to play on

634
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 3: the interior, if you want to run duo. If you

635
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 3: want to run power and you want to really mash people,

636
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 3: you get him on a double team. We never saw anybody,

637
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 3: you know, with a higher rate of out of the

638
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 3: whole cohort, the most power on display. But what you

639
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 3: saw with somebody who also struggles with deep sets, struggles

640
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 3: with the wide sets, and makes you say, Okay, I'm

641
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 3: not very comfortable with playing him at tackle on the

642
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 3: NFL level. And if we're looking for somebody who's going

643
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 3: to be a you know, a great space athlete, this

644
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 3: isn't the guy that has that makeup. So you can

645
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 3: learn not just quality, but a little bit more about

646
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 3: the flavor, which I really like there. And in terms

647
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 3: of quality, go back to Latham. Part of the reason

648
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 3: why we like him so much. He really really jumped

649
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 3: out in terms of when you look down a snap

650
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 3: by snap basis that the amount of good traits that

651
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 3: he displayed on a down in and down out basis

652
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 3: compared to his peers, and then the amount of bad

653
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 3: traits that he displayed, it was more goods and fewer bads.

654
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 3: So we really like that. Now that's just talking about

655
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 3: the performance right now, not the projection, but it speaks

656
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 3: to I think part of my comfort with having a

657
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 3: really high grade on Latham there.

658
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: Nah, I love that.

659
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: And then I know we've talked about like yards per

660
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 2: route run and stuff like that. Anything new with receivers

661
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 2: that you guys have kind of ginned up in the lab.

662
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 3: Oh, we've got all sorts of stuff. It's hard to

663
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 3: even remember what's come out since when in terms of

664
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 3: the receiver stuff. One thing that I really like is

665
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 3: our Targets above expectation metric. This you know, beware because

666
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 3: it can be influenced by who your teammates are, right,

667
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 3: just like any target share metric might have to do

668
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 3: with this, But this basically looks at based on what

669
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 3: routes you were being out to run as to run,

670
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 3: and how often we would expect players to be running

671
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 3: those routes within the concepts that they're that they're actually playing,

672
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 3: how often they would be targeted. And it looks at

673
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 3: which players are earning more or fewer targets than we

674
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 3: would expect based on that. And one thing that we

675
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 3: really like again you ask about predictiveness. Predictive for from

676
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 3: college to pro, the guys that get the ball, that

677
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 3: earn the targets they tend to earn the targets. So

678
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 3: that's one of them there where we can compare your

679
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 3: ability to basically get the ball thrown your way, which

680
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 3: is a proxy for openness and but also takes into

681
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 3: account some of your your radius and all that kind

682
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 3: of stuff.

683
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: Do you have that on on the website or is

684
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: that one of those proprietary team that is that we

685
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: that that we can't quite get our heads out yet.

686
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 3: I'd have to, you know, sometimes I can't remember which

687
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 3: ones we have on the website and which ones are

688
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 3: in other places that one might not be up there,

689
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 3: but uh, I could take a peek.

690
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: Just to let you know, Yeah, no worries, absolutely, all right,

691
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: let's uh, let let's continue with some of those sectional targets.

692
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 3: If you look at targets and hands, it'd be the

693
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 3: TGT uh percent.

694
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: Plus minus oh I say it got it.

695
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 3: So that's that's percentage of time that you're earning targets

696
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 3: relative to what we would.

697
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 2: Expect, folks. And again, go to the thirty thirteen to

698
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: check out the draft board. You click on the individual player,

699
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: click on stats, and then you can kind of sort

700
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 2: through all these proprietary SIS numbers which are just wonderful

701
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 2: and fantastic joy Matt Maticherian giving us a lot of time.

702
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 2: We really appreciate it. Mat, I know you're busy, but

703
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: just phenomenal stuff. Talking about the NFL Draft, Let's stick

704
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: go to defense and go to corner here, because I

705
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 2: think the Giants have a real need for corner in

706
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: the second round. And again you have seven guys in

707
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: this six six to six ' five range which are

708
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 2: low end starters, which I think is interesting. And you

709
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 2: have Terry and Arnold a lot of people, and Cooper

710
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 2: de Gene a lot of people have his corner ones

711
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 2: in this draft as first round guys.

712
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: You haven't pushed down a little bit. But what stands out.

713
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: From this group, either player wise or performance wise that

714
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: you think could be appalling to a team like the

715
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: Giants that need a corner on Day two of the draft.

716
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 3: So the corners this year are interesting, not I don't

717
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 3: think this sort of top top end guys that they

718
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 3: really weren't top ten pick that sort of thing. And

719
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 3: as we've seen with corners, not just in the college ranks,

720
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: but even in the NFL ranks, you know a lot

721
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 3: of more money going to the defensive line players and

722
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 3: the pass rushers in the past couple of years, and

723
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 3: I think the reason for that is because we can

724
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 3: predict how they're going to perform a little bit better

725
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 3: than we can with corners. Corners, you'll see players, you know,

726
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 3: Xavi and Howard seemed like he was the best player

727
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 3: in the league, and all of a sudden he's out

728
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 3: of a job and we don't even know what to

729
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 3: make of him. So it's the nature of the position

730
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 3: that it can be sort of volatile if you're getting

731
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 3: the interceptions, if you're getting burned, all that kind of stuff.

732
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 3: So we don't see top end guys here, but we

733
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 3: do see some players that basically you can pick your

734
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 3: war and you'll find some guys that can that can play,

735
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 3: that can be starting caliber players on your defense, but

736
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 3: you might have to deal with something that is less

737
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 3: than ideal depending on who you're looking at. You know,

738
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 3: I take for example, the example of Breakstraw. He's a

739
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 3: guy that I really like that I think can play well,

740
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 3: but you know, people have concerns about the top end speed.

741
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 3: You combine the speed with the with the lack of

742
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 3: size that he has, and you you can you have

743
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,959
Speaker 3: to be really more looking for somebody with elite cover

744
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 3: skills rather than somebody who maybe would be more well

745
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 3: grounded to fit into a zone scheme and can rally

746
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 3: to make tackles and all that sort of stuff. So

747
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 3: you know, McKinstry may be the opposite of that, right,

748
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 3: a nice, big, strong guy. But there are people that

749
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 3: have certainly had their questions about him based on the

750
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 3: film and how and how things progress throughout the year.

751
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 3: So I think that the the sort of we like

752
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 3: McKinstry a little bit better than Arnold. Most people probably

753
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 3: have it the other way. We're a little lower on

754
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 3: de gene than some people. Other people like him higher.

755
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 3: I think it has to do with number one, an

756
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,399
Speaker 3: acknowledgment that that corners are harder to predict than some

757
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 3: of these other defensive players. And number two that I

758
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 3: don't think that there's there's players here really that you

759
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 3: just yeah, Devin Witherston, lock them up, no problem about it.

760
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 3: You're gonna be able to find a ward with any

761
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,959
Speaker 3: of these guys. You're ready for a change. Payday comes

762
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 3: early with citizens, So go to that retreat. Knew you

763
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 3: moves to the country. Now you're raising goats and launching

764
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 3: a lifestyle brand. Are you ready for all that life breaks?

765
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: Question? On Wiggins?

766
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 2: You know he's so light in the butt, But I think,

767
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 2: for me, if you're gonna if there's one guy in

768
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 2: this class that, if you know game's on the line

769
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 2: and the new overtime rules is a one to one

770
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 2: on one rep with against the wide receiver and a

771
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 2: dB in this class, I think I'm picking Wiggins to

772
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: cover that wide receiver. I think that's how good its

773
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 2: coverage skills are. But he's so light. Anything you guys

774
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,919
Speaker 2: have been able to figure out in how that lack

775
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 2: of size might impact a player in terms of metrics

776
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 2: or things you've been able to look for in college

777
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 2: where that comes into play with how they play and

778
00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,720
Speaker 2: it's not just a number on a sheet of paper.

779
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 3: Absolutely, the arm length is probably the most concerning measurement

780
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 3: that I look at with him. It's a thirty and

781
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 3: a half inch arms And now listen, this is probably

782
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 3: gonna be maybe the top corner that goes in the draft,

783
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 3: and a really strong player that I'd be comfortable with.

784
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 3: But when you have somebody that just physically doesn't have

785
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 3: the arm length to be able to battle with an

786
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 3: NFL sized wide receiver at the line of scrimmage. It's

787
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,280
Speaker 3: going to eliminate a lot of your ability to play press.

788
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 3: They're gonna be guys that you just can't do it

789
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 3: against in a way that you'd really like to. So

790
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 3: I love the coverability, I love athleticism, the transition, all

791
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 3: of that kind of stuff, but it's exactly the things

792
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 3: that you would expect when you've got somebody who's lighter

793
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 3: and smaller, you're not gonna expect as much from them

794
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 3: and run support. But what we've found, and what we

795
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 3: always keep coming back to, is we don't pay corners

796
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 3: to support the run. Deon Sanders right, Nobody ever paid

797
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 3: Dion to make a tackle on anybody. I'm not trying

798
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 3: to say that that physicality is not important and all

799
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 3: this kind of stuff, but really, if you're gonna draft

800
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,720
Speaker 3: people high at this position, it's got to be people

801
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 3: with really special athletic traits that can run, that can

802
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 3: stick and coverage and have this kind of special athleticism.

803
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 3: So for me, the one thing that we've found when

804
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 3: we've sort of split up the archetypes is as much

805
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 3: as as good football people who want to make the

806
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 3: coaches that coached us when we were kids, happy and

807
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff. We kind of have to

808
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 3: not care about whether or not corners can tackle when

809
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 3: we're really trying to figure out who's going to be

810
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 3: a great NFL player.

811
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 2: I love the honest answer. That's fantastic defensive tackles. Another

812
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: spot where I think the Giants could be in the

813
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 2: neighborhood in around two or three. Here, Matt and you

814
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 2: guys have five defensive tackles in that kind of second tier,

815
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 2: and I think deve Andre Sweat will probably be available

816
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 2: in the second round two one. He's the other end

817
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 2: of the spectrum, right wait, flux situations and stuff.

818
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: That's something that worries me.

819
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: But then you had a nice little group of defensive

820
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 2: tackles here with like different skill sets.

821
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: In my opinion, that could help a team on day two.

822
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. I kind of love Defandre Sweat. He's one of

823
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 3: my favorite players. Man. They would be eating up a

824
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 3: lot of space if you had him in there on

825
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,720
Speaker 3: the on the Giants defensive line. But he's a player

826
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 3: that doesn't have the crazy pass rush juice. So I

827
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 3: think with Sweat you would be looking at somebody who

828
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 3: you would want to have basically making plays behind the

829
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 3: line of scrimmage on first and second down, a little

830
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 3: bit more really disruptive run game player. Obviously, he's going

831
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 3: to be a handful and in a pass rush just

832
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 3: because he's such a big, strong guy. But like you said,

833
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 3: some of the weight fluctuations, I wouldn't count on him

834
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 3: to really be an every down pass rusher. So that's

835
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 3: a little bit more the flavor you get with somebody

836
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 3: like him. Meanwhile, you look at his teammate, I Iron Murphy.

837
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 3: I think you're talking about a little bit more that

838
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 3: pass rush, that that one gap and go, that type

839
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 3: of player. So Dallas Turner probably going to be the

840
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 3: top player taking as far as the edges go. But

841
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 3: I look at some of these, some of these defensive

842
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 3: tackles and get I get as excited about them as

843
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 3: any of these other guys when you get into that

844
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 3: next tier.

845
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Giant fans love a winner.

846
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: It's why they love Citizens named the twenty twenty two

847
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: Best bank in the US by The Banker as the

848
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 2: official bank of the Giants and sponsor of the Huddle,

849
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 2: Citizens is made ready for fans of Big Blue. Learn

850
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: more at Citizens bank dot com. Two more spots Matt safety.

851
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 2: I would not be surprised if you don't see a

852
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,720
Speaker 2: safety picked in this class until midway through the second round.

853
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: But you do have a couple guys.

854
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 2: That you have first round grades on and Tyler Numan

855
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 2: and and Cam Kitchens.

856
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: Why do you like those two guys too much?

857
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 2: And then it looks like that next group for you guys,

858
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 2: are you even looking at Day three grades on those

859
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 2: guys with the six point four you think those guys

860
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 2: can slip into Round three?

861
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, So our grating scal is never going to be

862
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 3: predicated on where we think they're gonna go round wise,

863
00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 3: We're always looking at what role we think you can

864
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 3: and play on the team. So we saw Newman and

865
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 3: Kitchens as guys that we think can be low end

866
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 3: starters in the NFL. They're probably not ideally the best

867
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 3: safety on your team, but if they're one of your

868
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 3: two starting safeties, we think that you can compete for

869
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 3: a Super Bowl with these guys. The big separator with

870
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 3: those two compared to the guys that bump down a

871
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 3: little bit more into that six or four range, which

872
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 3: I think there'll be a mix of Day two and

873
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 3: Day three from the guys in that range, if I

874
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 3: had to kind of guess how things will play out.

875
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 3: Separation for us is really the three level ability, whereas

876
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 3: we need to make sure that we have guys that

877
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 3: can play truly on the back end and split the

878
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 3: field and cover two, and then also they can play

879
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 3: in the intermediate level that they can man up on

880
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 3: a running back or on a tight end and then

881
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 3: also be able to come down into the box on

882
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 3: run support. If you're doing two of the three, that's

883
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 3: usually what's going to separate you into that second tier

884
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 3: for us relative to the guys that we really feel

885
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 3: like have that versatility. Like you say, though, unless you

886
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 3: get the Kyle Hamilton types, safeties don't tend to go.

887
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 3: Teams just aren't prioritizing that in the draft.

888
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 2: Have you guys thought about almost separating these as you mentioned,

889
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 2: the guys that you have ranked highest is because they.

890
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: Can do all three things.

891
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 2: Well, then you get into the next group and you

892
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 2: have some guys, all right, well, he's more of a

893
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 2: slot corner safety, he's more of a box strong safety.

894
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: He's more of a split safety. He's more of a

895
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 2: single high center fielder. How do you kind of when

896
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 2: you put this together with your metrics on your board.

897
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 2: How do you kind of split up these safety rolls,

898
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: because they really are distinct roles a lot of times

899
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 2: in terms of what you're gonna ask these guys to do,

900
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 2: and if you're using this in the ideal way.

901
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 3: It's so funny because when I was first coming up

902
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 3: as a scout, we had strong safeties and free safeties. Yeah, right,

903
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 3: Like it was like are you are you a box

904
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 3: safety that's basically a glorified linebacker or are you playing

905
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 3: cover one in your center fielder all the time? And

906
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 3: it was like apples and oranges. Right over the course

907
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 3: of time, it's really moved into words, we need two

908
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 3: sometimes three to be able to play because not because

909
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 3: we need to have a box guy and we need

910
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 3: to have a deep guy. Certainly we saw, you know,

911
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 3: the camp chancellors still have success with that sort of thing.

912
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 3: But at this point passing league, like we said before,

913
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 3: about corners that can't tackle, and we need safeties that

914
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 3: can cover. These are secondary players. So the way that

915
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 3: we look at it is we do less separation in

916
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 3: terms of are you a free safety are you a

917
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 3: strong safety? These days, and we do more kind of

918
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 3: figuring out what skills you have and how many of

919
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 3: them you have, and your versatility is going to be

920
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 3: directly correlated to your braid as a result of that.

921
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 3: So seven zero and above the Pro Bowl types, the

922
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 3: Kyle Hamilton's of the world, I actually really don't care

923
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 3: if he can play on the back end or not.

924
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 3: He's not going to play back there. We know exactly

925
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 3: where he's going to play, and he's going to be

926
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 3: special in that role. When it comes to anybody that's

927
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 3: not on that sort of elite level. In order to

928
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 3: get into this sick two point seven to six point

929
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 3: nine grade range, you have to be able to do

930
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 3: all three. Like we said before, you have to have

931
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 3: the back end, you have to have the intermediate man

932
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 3: coverage ability, and you have to be able to play

933
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 3: near the line of scrimmage or else teams can scheme us.

934
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 3: That's basically the reason why. If you can't do all

935
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,959
Speaker 3: three of those things, then on first and second down,

936
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 3: we have somewhere for the for the opposing offense to

937
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 3: attack that's jumping out at them on the field. So

938
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 3: that's kind of the reasoning there. And then we look

939
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 3: at when you get to the lower level it's not

940
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 3: you have to be this or you have to be that.

941
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 3: We have to understand which you are. But there's no

942
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 3: there's nothing to say that inherently a guy that when

943
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 3: we bring out a third safety on the field is

944
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 3: going to slide more into the back end role versus

945
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 3: somebody who's going to play closer to the line of scrimmage.

946
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 3: There's no inherent reason why one of those is more

947
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 3: valuable than the other. It's the ability to do both

948
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 3: that that really separates at this position.

949
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: Not to totally get where you're coming from.

950
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 2: All right, final position here, Matt, and that and again,

951
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 2: and thank you so much for the time. As the

952
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 2: running back spot, I think you see this the same

953
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 2: way I do. You guys have five running backs and

954
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: your lower end starter category here, and you know Trey Benson.

955
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 2: What I love is that these five running backs are

956
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 2: all so different. Trey Benson's kind of your home run

957
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,879
Speaker 2: hitting speed guy. Aldr guess dem is your second guy,

958
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 2: that kind of power but shifty without that top end

959
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:21,959
Speaker 2: speed type of guy.

960
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: Then you have Brooks out of Texas. You can do

961
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 1: a little bit of everything.

962
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 2: Shipley is your excellent passing down guy, and boy is

963
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 2: he elusive in small areas when he runs it. Then

964
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 2: you have Blake Koram, who's kind of that you know,

965
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 2: miniature between the tackles runner who again doesn't have great

966
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: toss beed but makes people miss and it's just an

967
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 2: all around good player. They're all so different, but you

968
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,919
Speaker 2: have them in the same grade category, which I would

969
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 2: imagine it'd be kind of like a round two, round

970
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: three type of situation. Your thoughts on on that top

971
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 2: of that running back class and it just is it

972
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 2: really just a matter of what flavor of ice game

973
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: you like?

974
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are so many running backs that play that

975
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 3: unless you get a really really special time, it's very

976
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 3: hard to make the argument to be to be running

977
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 3: to draft these guys early. I think they are all

978
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 3: different flavors to a to a different extent. We like

979
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 3: Benson probably at the top of the group just because

980
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 3: of the explosiveness, like you talked about, that's probably the

981
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,720
Speaker 3: most important trait of all the ones that you listed

982
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 3: off there, that that each of these guys have. Estimate

983
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 3: is probably my favorite of these players to watch. Nayak guy.

984
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 3: So I'm a homer as far as that goes, But

985
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 3: but generally I like the way he plays football. I

986
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 3: really I think he's a He's a good football player,

987
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,919
Speaker 3: just not not ideally a third down player. I think

988
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 3: currently in the way that more of a guy that

989
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 3: you're gonna want to mix with somebody else. But I

990
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 3: think these are good players. I think that, just like

991
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 3: the receivers, the running backs are a victim of the position,

992
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 3: and you know, for them, it's a devaluation of the

993
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 3: position that goes along with having a glood of talent

994
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:57,760
Speaker 3: that's there. You can find free agent running backs right now.

995
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 3: If you need somebody to start on Sunday, there are

996
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 3: people that are out there that you can add. I

997
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 3: think having somebody like one of these players, if you

998
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 3: can get them in the third or fourth round, having

999
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 3: that cost control player that you can count on, that's

1000
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 3: super duper valuable. But it's really what makes it hard

1001
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 3: with running backs is that the sort of replacement level,

1002
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 3: right like the wins over replacement, if you look at

1003
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 3: it that way, the replacement level from one running back

1004
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 3: to another, you're just not making that big a jump.

1005
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 1: And then I love it, you guys, I had to

1006
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:32,760
Speaker 1: recount it twice.

1007
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 2: You have twenty one running backs in your grading scale area,

1008
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 2: limited stought, or a multi positional backup. And to me, Matt,

1009
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 2: that's got to be that rotational guy, right, he'll be

1010
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 2: the second guy in a two man split backfield. And

1011
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 2: my gosh, I think this shows you how many running

1012
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 2: backs and go in that you know, late round three

1013
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 2: to round five area in this draft, you have a

1014
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 2: twenty one players more than any other position in that group.

1015
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of teams that want to get a

1016
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 3: late round back this year. Good news, There're gonna be

1017
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 3: a lot of late roundbacks that go this year. This

1018
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 3: could be the sort of year where, just like in

1019
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 3: a receiver draft, we've gotten to the point where you'll

1020
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 3: see more than thirty two receivers drafted in an individual year,

1021
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 3: we could see a running back year like that this

1022
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 3: year where I'm not betting on it early. Right, they're

1023
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 3: not coming on the first day. Second day maybe a

1024
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 3: little trickle, but on Day three they're gonna be a

1025
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 3: bunch of these guys. And then even when we get

1026
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 3: into the post draft priority free agent type signing, you'll

1027
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 3: see some of these guys actually hoping not to get

1028
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 3: drafted in the seventh round so that they can pick

1029
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 3: their opportunity a little bit more so. Yeah, nature of

1030
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 3: that position these days.

1031
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 2: I know it observes a lot different than when you

1032
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 2: first started scouting, you know, back when running backs are

1033
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 2: going top five Trey Benson, Cadillac Williams right back to

1034
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 2: back top five picks and that sort of thing. Very different,

1035
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 2: all right, Matt, tell all the folks you already talked

1036
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 2: about sas what you guys do. Where can they find

1037
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 2: all your content? Where should they go to find it?

1038
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 2: Tell them everything they need to know.

1039
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely check out the thirty third team website that's

1040
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 3: at the thirty third team dot com. Uh, don't hate

1041
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,760
Speaker 3: us too much for working with Mike Tannenbaum on that promise.

1042
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 3: He's not a bad as bad a guy as he seems. No,

1043
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 3: I'm kidding. In terms of SIS, you can find us

1044
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 3: probably most easily on Twitter at sports info Underscore SIS

1045
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 3: my personal account at Matt man O m A T

1046
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 3: T m A n O and look out for us.

1047
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 3: You can sign up for the Sports Info Solutions newsletter

1048
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 3: at sports infosolutions dot com. And we're looking forward to

1049
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 3: another another fun draft and then UH can't wait to

1050
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 3: open the gifts when they come out in August.

1051
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun. Matt terrific.

1052
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for the time, and let's do

1053
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 2: this again next year. And you know, maybe this year

1054
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,399
Speaker 2: we'll do a little season preview with you too. We've

1055
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 2: done that yet to kind of get your guys take

1056
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 2: on what the season.

1057
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: Might look like.

1058
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd love to chat anytime.

1059
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: Awesome.

1060
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 2: Matt Madicherian from Sports Info Solutions SI S thank him

1061
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 2: for joining us the Giants Little Podcast.

1062
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time. Everybody