Speaker 1: Campsite media for the cops working Project Miguel. The takedowns
Speaker 1: were the culmination of a year's long investigation. After making
Speaker 1: almost sixty arrests in a single day, they patted themselves
Speaker 1: on the back, did a victory lap for the media,
Speaker 1: and moved on to the next big bust. But for
Speaker 1: Derrick White and Hunter Montour, this was just the beginning.
Speaker 1: They didn't understand why they were targets of an international
Speaker 1: sting operation, didn't think they'd broken any laws. The whole
Speaker 1: thing was absurd right from the get go. I went
Speaker 1: the first time I went to court, no idea. I'm
Speaker 1: sitting and inquired. There's like forty people or whatever sitting
Speaker 1: in this courtroom. So I look at my lawyer and
Speaker 1: I said, we gotta sit here all day and wait
Speaker 1: for all these cases to go through. He's like, what
Speaker 1: do you mean? I said, what the funk? All these people?
Speaker 1: I said, what are we gonna do? It's like, these
Speaker 1: are all the people. You don't know anybody here. I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: I've never met any of these people. I don't wunt
Speaker 1: know what they are. I said, what are they here for?
Speaker 1: Is they're all involved in your case? I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: no Derek, but I don't know anybody else. I had
Speaker 1: no idea who these people are. Derek's situation wasn't too different.
Speaker 1: He was being lumped in with outlaw bikers and Colombian
Speaker 1: cartel runners. He was publicly accused of running a tobacco
Speaker 1: smuggling operation alongside big time organized crime figures like Sylvan Etier,
Speaker 1: someone Derek says he never dealt with. I had no clue.
Speaker 1: I mean, he used to show up but my restaurant,
Speaker 1: would you know, different guys just bringing them there to
Speaker 1: eat and stuff like that. But I never spoke to him.
Speaker 1: I never he He only spoke French for one and
Speaker 1: I never talked to him. But Sylvan would never face
Speaker 1: a judge because not long after the Mygale takedown at
Speaker 1: Sylvan's front door, knocked on his door and killed him
Speaker 1: front porch. No one was ever charged with the murder,
Speaker 1: but a former Quebec police investigator told the media that
Speaker 1: he believed the Hell's Angels were responsible. My understanding of
Speaker 1: it is that this was a retribution because he had
Speaker 1: not turned over all the money that was due the
Speaker 1: bikers and organized crime. It's so in essence if let's
Speaker 1: just make up numbers. Ten lords came in, he was
Speaker 1: only giving them money on six and keeping the four
Speaker 1: to himself. So how did you react when Sylvan was murdered?
Speaker 1: I mean, were you did you feel like anything was
Speaker 1: gonna come to you? Or well not really, I mean
Speaker 1: from what I hear that he owed people money and
Speaker 1: or he was basically I don't know if he was
Speaker 1: if he was gonna squeal on the other guys that
Speaker 1: were bringing the stuff in for him, or I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't They didn't know much about what was what
Speaker 1: they're what, they're how their operation was working, so they
Speaker 1: don't care. They just want to just round up as
Speaker 1: many people as they can and charge everybody and try
Speaker 1: to get as much money as they can out of everybody.
Speaker 1: But you know what happened. Look at you got fifty
Speaker 1: fifty guys and I'm the only Me and Hunter are
Speaker 1: the only ones that are fighting this because it's our right.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're gonna fight this right till the end.
Speaker 1: From day one, Derek knew he was going to fight
Speaker 1: this case. It didn't cross his mind to roll over
Speaker 1: and plead guilty like most of the other Mohawks had
Speaker 1: been arrested on tobacco charges in the past. From as
Speaker 1: far as I can remember, tobacco and the cigarettes were
Speaker 1: coming in. There was people getting caught and going accord
Speaker 1: and this and that, but nobody really fought it. Nobody
Speaker 1: ever fought it. They would just okay, well, say you
Speaker 1: had ten cases of cigarettes in your in your trunk whatever,
Speaker 1: and they say, okay, well, UH will make you a deal.
Speaker 1: You pay a hundred dollars a month or whatever. So
Speaker 1: everybody would take the deal, and nobody ever fought it.
Speaker 1: And I said, you know what, it's time someone you know,
Speaker 1: steps up to the plate and fight discovernment and see
Speaker 1: what happens. And I'm willing. I'm ready to go to jail.
Speaker 1: I don't care, you know, but I'm not pleading guilty.
Speaker 1: Playing and simple. They could make any offer that they
Speaker 1: want and I'm not taking it. Playing and Simple from
Speaker 1: Campside Media and Dan Patrick Productions. This is Running Smoke,
Speaker 1: I Got great place. I'm Roger Gola and this is
Speaker 1: episode five the trial. As soon as Derek heard that
Speaker 1: he had a warrant out for his arrest, he placed
Speaker 1: a phone call to a golf buddy he'd known for years.
Speaker 1: Pure lick v l e c u y e Er.
Speaker 1: I was the defense lawyer for Derek Whaite. I met
Speaker 1: Pierre in his swinky office in downtown Montreal, and he
Speaker 1: just had one ground rule for me. If I would
Speaker 1: like the question, I won't answer simple enough. Huh. Pierre
Speaker 1: does not mess around. He's about as matter of fact
Speaker 1: as a clerk at the d MB. Was this a
Speaker 1: total surprise to both you and Derek? Was there any
Speaker 1: indication that there was surveillance happening prior or I'm never
Speaker 1: surprised if a client is arrested, and I was aware
Speaker 1: of it because two of his runner were arrested and
Speaker 1: amounts of money were sees. I would say three or
Speaker 1: four months, six months prior to the arrest, so I
Speaker 1: knew something was cooking, But at the time Derek chalked
Speaker 1: it up to a fluke. His suspicions were raised a bit,
Speaker 1: but the business continued for months until March when the
Speaker 1: Mohawk Peacekeepers called Derek to tell him he was wanted.
Speaker 1: Calls me, there's a warrant for his arrest. I ran
Speaker 1: down to his office, We discussed it, made sure that
Speaker 1: he would be released on bail. I found out that
Speaker 1: much the bail was to be sure that I had
Speaker 1: the money to go deposited for the bail. We waited
Speaker 1: for the disclosure and started working the case. Disclosure all
Speaker 1: the evidence that the government had collected on Derek over
Speaker 1: the last couple of years. It was ten bankers boxes
Speaker 1: worth of intercepted phone calls, text, surveillance reports and photos.
Speaker 1: Pierre and his team had their work cut out for them.
Speaker 1: And so just from seeing the full disclosure, how strong
Speaker 1: did you feel the government's case was? Well, obviously it
Speaker 1: was strong. When you have police officers delivering tobacco to you,
Speaker 1: I mean and one at the end stints the guy
Speaker 1: is moving to tobacco to a warehouse in Saint Jeanne.
Speaker 1: Derek is giving shipped to the guy to move faster,
Speaker 1: and the guy who was moving in as an OURCMP officer.
Speaker 1: So Derek was hit with two sets of criminal charges.
Speaker 1: The first set concerned the tax evasion he'd allegedly committed
Speaker 1: against the provincial government of Quebec. For the provincial when
Speaker 1: the finished product, which means a cigarette, has to be
Speaker 1: so they have to prove that it's sold in Quebec territory. Well,
Speaker 1: in there's case that it wasn't because he was shipping
Speaker 1: full containers to Ontario six Nations and that's where they
Speaker 1: were producing the cigarettes and setting them there. I'm not
Speaker 1: liable for paying the taxes or anything. If you look
Speaker 1: into the the Rules and Regulations of Revenue Canada, it
Speaker 1: states right in there do you only paid the taxes
Speaker 1: once it's manufactured and sold. So I've never manufactured any
Speaker 1: cigarettes or sold any cigarettes the actual cigarette. All I
Speaker 1: did was I was a broker of of raw tobacco
Speaker 1: Nation and nation. We knew we had a good chance
Speaker 1: of winning the provincial one, and we knew that their
Speaker 1: case was strong concerning the federal one, which brings us
Speaker 1: to Derek's second set of charges, the federal ones. Derek
Speaker 1: was accused of defrauding the federal Canadian government, which does
Speaker 1: levy taxes on raw tobacco. The federal issue is when
Speaker 1: you enter the border, you've got to declare and pay taxes,
Speaker 1: and they were not. So that's the federal issue they're saying.
Speaker 1: It's it's a more than a billion dollars of taxes
Speaker 1: that were not paid. The big debate on these charges
Speaker 1: came down to a simple question, who was the importer.
Speaker 1: Derek said it wasn't him, He was just the buyer.
Speaker 1: He ordered tobacco from brokers down in North Carolina and
Speaker 1: paid drivers to bring it across the border. It was
Speaker 1: on the broker and the drivers to pay those taxes.
Speaker 1: Derek claimed he only took possession of the tobacco after
Speaker 1: it is in Canada. The government, however, argued that Derek
Speaker 1: was the importer, that he had his own drivers and
Speaker 1: money runners, and that he was running a criminal organization.
Speaker 1: And one of the people the government accused of being
Speaker 1: in Derek's criminal organization was Hunter Montour, who had walked
Speaker 1: into a courtroom full of strangers. The government claimed that
Speaker 1: Hunter had helped Derek find a warehouse in New Jersey
Speaker 1: to store his contraband, and that Hunter had helped manage
Speaker 1: those shipments. My association with the cases so far like
Speaker 1: it was ridiculous, it still is. I referred him to
Speaker 1: this this place in New Jersey that I was told about,
Speaker 1: and I said, well, here's the guy, this is the
Speaker 1: number he's and he asked me, so can you call him?
Speaker 1: I shower, no big deal, and the eyes of the government.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that that was something being that was
Speaker 1: something that you were doing that was illegal. I had
Speaker 1: no idea. It just couldn't wrap my head around what
Speaker 1: what they're saying I'm doing. I'm like, I'm just helping
Speaker 1: a friend. I got the information here it is that's
Speaker 1: gangsters um. That was the charge Hunter was facing, gangsterism
Speaker 1: aiding a criminal organization. Derek felt guilty about rupping his
Speaker 1: friend into the whole mess. I could have did that
Speaker 1: myself and I couldn't. Didn't even need Hunter involved. They
Speaker 1: didn't go online and okay, well here's a where else,
Speaker 1: store it there, and then they would send their trucks
Speaker 1: there to pick up the product and come across. Gangsterism
Speaker 1: was a steep charge, and Hunter says he was getting
Speaker 1: pressure to plead guilty, take a deal, and avoid a
Speaker 1: lengthy trial. I think it was six months with some
Speaker 1: kind of fine or something, I can't remember, and the
Speaker 1: last one was house arresting, and I told him, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to admit to something that I did
Speaker 1: not do. I have to. If you're saying I said,
Speaker 1: is bull, it's not even true. Said you made up
Speaker 1: have this shape, You're gonna strom me in jail, s
Speaker 1: from me in jail. But I'm not gonna admit to
Speaker 1: something that I didn't do. Derreck and Hunter's trial took
Speaker 1: place in the Montreal court House, an imposing brutalist building
Speaker 1: sandwich between Little Chinatown and the Historic District. The proceedings
Speaker 1: were presided over by a judge in a black robe
Speaker 1: and white collar. Dereck and Pierre sat on one side
Speaker 1: of the room and on the other or the Crown
Speaker 1: prosecutors representing the Canadian government. The stage was set for
Speaker 1: a court battle. Without further ado, let the fight begin, gentlemen,
Speaker 1: to your corners, hold on, We'll be right back. The
Speaker 1: Crown prosecutors took the floor first and presented their arguments
Speaker 1: before a jury, while Derek and Pierre listened patiently. The
Speaker 1: government's case relied heavily on the testimonies of investigators, undercover officers,
Speaker 1: and informants that participated in Project My Gale. Day after day,
Speaker 1: Crown prosecutors brought witnesses before the jury to prove that
Speaker 1: Derek was knowingly defrauding the government. They brought out the
Speaker 1: informant who started the whole case, who we heard earlier
Speaker 1: next week. Sure I think of any your man, Thank you,
Speaker 1: you got arrested in the United States for money laundering?
Speaker 1: Is that right? And they brought out the members of
Speaker 1: the surveillance team that intercepted Derek's phone calls and texts
Speaker 1: and read them aloud. For the journey went for the
Speaker 1: s s A, the kind of up Order services agency.
Speaker 1: I was the person that listened to the communications that
Speaker 1: were intercepted. And they brought out the undercover police officers
Speaker 1: that drove the semi trucks shut alling tobacco across the
Speaker 1: border to Derek's reservation. Next winness, you see a three
Speaker 1: three three three? Can you tell me who you work for?
Speaker 1: Right now? Uh U S Department of Homeland Security Poland
Speaker 1: Journey investigations. The Crown strategy was to show that Derek
Speaker 1: was responsible for paying the taxes, that he had violated
Speaker 1: the Excise Act and knowingly committed fraud against the Canadian government. Derek,
Speaker 1: as far as the Crown was concerned, was an importer
Speaker 1: and in the old sailor of tobacco. So the proof
Speaker 1: showed us that he had one big client, which was
Speaker 1: Jason Lee of Six Nations, and when tobacco would get
Speaker 1: to Gnawaugue, then it would be shipped to sixth Nations
Speaker 1: by one of Derek's drivers, and he wouldn't make the
Speaker 1: profit on the sale of the tobacco. One way the
Speaker 1: government tried to prove Derek's wrongdoing and deliberate fraud was
Speaker 1: his alleged use of code words word like pizza dough,
Speaker 1: moose meat, racing tires, golf clubs. One of the cool
Speaker 1: words is the pizza will be ready for Friday, for example.
Speaker 1: It was nothing very complicated. So you put this, and
Speaker 1: you put the fact that Friday there was a deliver
Speaker 1: at to back when the sixth nation. You put two
Speaker 1: and two together and that's nothing very complicated. But Derek
Speaker 1: had an explanation for those code words. What does pizza
Speaker 1: dough mean by sell pizza? It was it started off
Speaker 1: it was pizza that I was bringing from this. They
Speaker 1: never mentioned about the cheese or stuff like that, sauce
Speaker 1: because everything we bring in is mostly from the States,
Speaker 1: so it kind of started from there. I think the
Speaker 1: government just use that as proof that you were speaking
Speaker 1: in code. Yeah, whatever, the moose meats in the cooler
Speaker 1: I was buying Actually I was buying moose meat from Hunter.
Speaker 1: So a lot of the conversations that we're doing here,
Speaker 1: even here under reserve. They suspected that it was tobacco,
Speaker 1: but which we do sell all these kind of you know,
Speaker 1: all these kind of things that we're talking about, the pizza,
Speaker 1: the meat. I have a butcher shop, you know, I
Speaker 1: have a pizza restaurant, everything, So they thought we were
Speaker 1: talking about tobacco, but really it was actual food. To
Speaker 1: be perfectly honest, when I asked Derek about those code words,
Speaker 1: I hadn't actually heard the phone tape or text. All
Speaker 1: he had were local media reports, and I really did
Speaker 1: think Derek was telling the truth. This was just the
Speaker 1: way that folks in Gottawage talked, and if you take
Speaker 1: anything out of context, it's gonna look bad. But a
Speaker 1: few months later we got the tapes from the trial,
Speaker 1: and the code words, well they started sounding a little
Speaker 1: less innocent. I'm sending moost meat soon period. Tell the
Speaker 1: old man it's O D one period. Pezza truck wrote
Speaker 1: down hopefully Tuesday or Wednesday, t will be there for lunch.
Speaker 1: There was so much coded language that even the undercover
Speaker 1: police got confused. In one operation, an undercover truck driver
Speaker 1: accidentally picked up a load of salt instead of tobacco
Speaker 1: because he didn't use the right code word at the warehouse.
Speaker 1: Once I'd heard the tapes, I had to ask Derek
Speaker 1: about it again, and his answer was a bit different
Speaker 1: than what he'd said originally. I don't know. I guess
Speaker 1: it's kind of uh make makes a little bit more
Speaker 1: exciting if you are again, uh, you don't know if
Speaker 1: those guys are being uh, you know, watched or what.
Speaker 1: So that's you know, that's how they that That's the
Speaker 1: way they they do everything is they use cold words,
Speaker 1: and so I just followed what they say. Derek was
Speaker 1: admitting that, yes, he did use the code words. They
Speaker 1: made the whole thing feel like a movie, and more importantly,
Speaker 1: it was the way his truck drivers and brokers spoke.
Speaker 1: Derek was just following their example. But the fact that
Speaker 1: he used code words doesn't make him a criminal. Being
Speaker 1: shady isn't a crime. Derek has rights as a native person.
Speaker 1: The way he sees it, he doesn't have to pay
Speaker 1: taxes to the Canadian government, especially on something as traditional
Speaker 1: as tobacco. He says. The fact that he's using code
Speaker 1: words and trying to do things under the radar is
Speaker 1: because the government refuses to acknowledge his rights. They won't
Speaker 1: let us exercise our rights. They think we're criminals. They
Speaker 1: want to make us look like criminals and their eyes
Speaker 1: were doing something wrong, But in our eyes, it's what
Speaker 1: we were. Um. I was brought up in this in
Speaker 1: the tobacco trade with my grandmother. So from as far
Speaker 1: as I remember, this is all legal stuff, you know.
Speaker 1: So if I pulled up at the border coming from
Speaker 1: the States and m yeah, I got a trunk full
Speaker 1: of tobacco, They're gonna arrest me. They just they put
Speaker 1: their own boarder there. They put their own taxes on
Speaker 1: the cigarettes and stuff like that. It's for the government's Uh,
Speaker 1: they're dire the only one that's benefiting from it. But
Speaker 1: this wasn't a trial over indigenous history and constitutional rights.
Speaker 1: It was a criminal trial over tax evasion. It was
Speaker 1: being heard in a courthouse based on Canadian laws and procedures,
Speaker 1: not Mohawk ones. Despite Derek's firm belief that he was
Speaker 1: in the right, it would ultimately be up to a
Speaker 1: jury to decide, and after months of hearing arguments from
Speaker 1: both sides, that jury was finally ready to present a verdict.
Speaker 1: That's after the break jury we even told that pronounced
Speaker 1: your verdict. Yes, so Mr White, Mr Derek White, and
Speaker 1: Mr aunt Montal to send up, ladies and gentlemen, o
Speaker 1: the really will speaking on it will be all the
Speaker 1: members of the injury and agreement on their verdict. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: so there White because conspiracy to their crotic government can
Speaker 1: get it. I've gotten Ober five. So there White probed
Speaker 1: against the government to then when you're building it's not
Speaker 1: on council conspiracy to defraud the government of Quebec and
Speaker 1: of committing fraud against the Government of Quebec. Derek White
Speaker 1: was found not guilty. He had beaten the provincial charges.
Speaker 1: And remember Derek's lawyer getting all excited and pumping his
Speaker 1: fists and it was was really happy. So I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: that's to be a good thing. I mean, we were
Speaker 1: very confident in winning the provincial side because they got
Speaker 1: approved that the manufactured products are sold true Quebec and
Speaker 1: their evidence was very weak, so we got that part.
Speaker 1: The provincial government of Quebec only levied taxes on finished
Speaker 1: products manufactured cigarettes, and Derek only ever sold wholesale raw tobacco.
Speaker 1: The government couldn't prove that he actually owed the forty
Speaker 1: four million dollars in taxes that they claimed he did,
Speaker 1: and the jury took Derek's side, and if we were
Speaker 1: very lucky, would have won everything. Unfortunately, Derek still had
Speaker 1: federal charges hanging over his head, the small issue of
Speaker 1: five hundred million dollars innovated taxes owed to the federal
Speaker 1: government of Canada. So oncou number one from some Derek
Speaker 1: white top skating con activities of a criminal organization? What
Speaker 1: is your guilty I'm talking about to mister n Termoto,
Speaker 1: facilitating the activities of criminal organization? What is your real guilty?
Speaker 1: I'm coming abo three. So they required conspiracy to defer
Speaker 1: the government of Canada. What is your limit guilty? Thank you?
Speaker 1: After hearing the slew of evidence on the structure of
Speaker 1: Derek's organization and the involvement he had in the tobacco shipments,
Speaker 1: the jury had decided that Derek was indeed the importer,
Speaker 1: which meant it wasn't the broker's or the driver's responsibility
Speaker 1: to pay taxes at the border, it was Derek's. I thought,
Speaker 1: for sure, we're going to get off on both, you know,
Speaker 1: federal and provincial. Was just shocked at we were found
Speaker 1: guilty on the federal site because it's basically the same argument.
Speaker 1: It's the same thing. You know, I didn't drive the
Speaker 1: fucking truck across the border. All I did was when
Speaker 1: the product got here, I would just send the money.
Speaker 1: So it's delivered to the reserve. It's pax free. Hunter
Speaker 1: had also been found guilty of a gangsters in charge
Speaker 1: of aiding Derek's criminal organization. Together, they were looking at
Speaker 1: years in prison, but Derek had a planned for this
Speaker 1: which had been set in motion months earlier. It was
Speaker 1: a plan that would keep him out of a jail
Speaker 1: cell and postponed sentencing. More importantly, it was a legal
Speaker 1: option that would allow him to argue his native rights
Speaker 1: before a judge. Derek was going to file a constitutional
Speaker 1: challenge Tuesday before. We don't have any anything to sip
Speaker 1: because it's been all scheduled for the constitutional challenge. Thank
Speaker 1: you very much, and we will come and so I'll
Speaker 1: see you in June. Like from day one, we knew
Speaker 1: that our second step was to go to challenge the
Speaker 1: constitutional issue, so we had all rehired the constitutional lawyer.
Speaker 1: In all this, Derek was going to fight his federal
Speaker 1: charges on the grounds of the Canadian Constitution. Itself. He
Speaker 1: wasn't trying to prove that he didn't bring tobacco across
Speaker 1: the border without paying taxes. He was going to try
Speaker 1: to prove that the tax laws didn't apply to him
Speaker 1: and that trading tobacco tax free was his right as
Speaker 1: a Native person. No tobacco case had ever come as
Speaker 1: far in the Canadian legal system. And what are the
Speaker 1: implications of this case if they win or lose. If
Speaker 1: they win, and basically bacco trade will be legal for walks,
Speaker 1: they won't need they won't need permits from the federal
Speaker 1: or provincial governments, and they'll be able to deal into tobacco.
Speaker 1: If Derrick loses, then it's he's gonna have to face
Speaker 1: the sentence and go to jail. Well, why should I
Speaker 1: plead to something that uh, I've I think that it's um,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing anything wrong. I mean, we're exercising our
Speaker 1: rights as Native people. Then we'll see who's ready to
Speaker 1: keep fighting and go on how far you want to go.
Speaker 1: It's not about standing in the tree line and trying
Speaker 1: to scare army guys. This is a this is the
Speaker 1: way things are done now. This is the fight tobacco.
Speaker 1: Who is our is our trade. I mean, like I said,
Speaker 1: it's still going on today and it's not gonna stop.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's tobacco. Who it's our rights. We're gonna
Speaker 1: continue selling tobacco and they ain't gonna stop us. It
Speaker 1: seems like you don't, you know, put a lot of
Speaker 1: stock in his argument that he's standing up for Native
Speaker 1: rights in this I won't be right to say, don't
Speaker 1: add that. Jimmy the anonymous investigator who worked on My Gil.
Speaker 1: It makes my skin crawl when I hear people say
Speaker 1: there's some kind of Native America in warrior, some kind
Speaker 1: of social Native American warrior. They're doing it for the
Speaker 1: fucking money, period, end of story. Yeah, he's not Robin Hood.
Speaker 1: He's not getting money from the rich guys and giving
Speaker 1: it to the poor. That's a social hero, not some
Speaker 1: asshole who pays people organized crime figures and and Hell's
Speaker 1: Angels and people to smuggle across the border. He was
Speaker 1: increasing his wealth and the tribe saw nothing from it.
Speaker 1: So when he makes representations that he's some kind of warrior,
Speaker 1: you know what, I disagree. Derrick White and other natives
Speaker 1: like that would have my respect if they drove down
Speaker 1: to North Carolina and bought a tractor trailer load of
Speaker 1: tobacco under their own name, with a good bill of lading,
Speaker 1: and drove to Canada. And when they got to the
Speaker 1: Canadian Border Services and the agent at the border said,
Speaker 1: what do you got back there? If Derek White would
Speaker 1: have looked at that agent and said, I have cut
Speaker 1: rack tobacco. Here's my bill of lading showing I paid
Speaker 1: for cut reck tobacco. I'm taking it to my own
Speaker 1: licensed facility or my friends on licensed facility where I'm
Speaker 1: gonna sell it and it's gonna be made into cigarettes.
Speaker 1: And if you've got a problem with that, let's talk
Speaker 1: about it in court. Because I think I got it
Speaker 1: right through this, just like every other Native American does.
Speaker 1: I would respect that. That's not what he fucking did.
Speaker 1: It turns out, though someone did do that thirty years ago.
Speaker 1: He followed all the rules and launched a case against
Speaker 1: the government, even took it all the way to the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. It was supposed to be a landmark case
Speaker 1: for Native rights, and then he got screwed next time.
Speaker 1: On running smoke, It's like playing a game of cards
Speaker 1: with somebody and they just decided we're going to change
Speaker 1: the rules so they can win. It was a dumb case.
Speaker 1: I never should have been argued before the court. He
Speaker 1: thought he was going to be very savior. Just no
Speaker 1: other way to fight it. And what else you're gonna do.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna have a war over it because we're
Speaker 1: not gonna win. We have to fight in a system
Speaker 1: that inherently has waited against us, and we have no choice.
Speaker 1: Every time, every every court case, the government always won.
Speaker 1: Running Smokes the production of camp Site Media, Dan Patrick
Speaker 1: Productions and Workhouse Media. The series was written and reported
Speaker 1: by me Roger Goa. Our producers are Lea Papes, Laine Gerbig,
Speaker 1: and Julie Dennische. Our editors are Michelle Lands and Emily Martinez.
Speaker 1: Sound designed and original music by Mark McAdam, additional sound
Speaker 1: and mixing by ewen Lyone from you In. Additional reporting
Speaker 1: by Susie McCarthy. Our executive producers or Dan Patrick, Josh
Speaker 1: de New Camp Said Media, Paul Anderson, Nick Pnella and
Speaker 1: Andrew Greenwood for Workhouse Media. Fact checking by Mary Mathis,
Speaker 1: artwork by Polly Adams, and additional thanks to Greghorn, Anny Kaufman,
Speaker 1: Sierra Franco, Elizabeth van Brocklyn and Shawn Flynn MHM