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Speaker 1: This is what happens when the fourth Turning meets fifth

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Speaker 1: generation warfare.

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Speaker 2: A.

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Speaker 3: Commentator, international social media sensation, and form a Navy intelligence veteran.

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Speaker 4: This is Human Events with your host Jack Posovic.

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Speaker 3: Christ Is King Stember tenth twenty twenty five, twenty two

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Speaker 3: year old Tyler Robinson decided he wouldn't be attending his

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Speaker 3: electrical apprenticeship program at Dixie Technical College. At eight twenty three,

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Speaker 3: he walked to his gray Dodge Challenger, and a little

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Speaker 3: while later he drove off to Utah Valley University. Three

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Speaker 3: hours after that, at eleven forty nine, he exited his car,

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Speaker 3: wearing a different set of clothes, a cap, dark sunglasses,

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Speaker 3: and visibly limping toward the parking lot adjacent to the

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Speaker 3: UVU campus. He walked up the parking lot stairs, headed

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Speaker 3: to the low Cea Center, and then was nowhere to

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Speaker 3: be seen. Meanwhile, Conservative speaker Charlie Kirk was hosting one

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Speaker 3: of his debate events on campus, roughly two hundred yards

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Speaker 3: away from where Tyler was. At exactly twelve twenty three,

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Speaker 3: a single shots rang out, piercing the left side of

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Speaker 3: Kirk's throat, sending the entire campus into chaos. To add

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Speaker 3: to the already extremely tragic situation, CCTV footage showed Tyler,

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Speaker 3: then unknown to the authorities, fleeing the scene and successfully

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Speaker 3: evading capture. Tyler's father, Matt, saw the pictures of the

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Speaker 3: killer on the news. To his unimaginable shock, he saw

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Speaker 3: his son being reported about on national television for having

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Speaker 3: murdered Charlie Kirk. Despite his utter shock and disbelief, Matt

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Speaker 3: went to his son and simply asked him, Tyler, is

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Speaker 3: this you? This looks like you. Tyler immediately confessed. Soon

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Speaker 3: after his capture, Tyler went completely silent and has refused

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Speaker 3: to cooperate with the police. While the roommate was initially anonymous,

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Speaker 3: that didn't last long as a neighbor of Tyler's came

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Speaker 3: forward to speak with the media and some pretty interesting

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Speaker 3: things were said when the topic came up, and the

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Speaker 3: neighbor claims to have witnessed them together. Were they holding hands?

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Speaker 5: Uh, yeah they were?

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Speaker 6: And yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 7: There's some published reports out there that this individual the roommate,

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Speaker 7: may have been transistent in and did that correlate with

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Speaker 7: what you saw?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely. I remember them talking about a doctor's payment.

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Speaker 3: An unknown source in law enforcement had already attested to

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Speaker 3: the same story, and with this much scrutiny and attention

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Speaker 3: on something, keeping this person's name a secret was basically impossible. Eventually,

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Speaker 3: people found Tyler's Venmo account, where one name stood out,

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Speaker 3: Lance Twigs, Ladies.

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Speaker 1: And welcome aboard today's edition of Human Events Daily. We've

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Speaker 1: got a special episode for you today. Now, if you

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Speaker 1: saw the previous episode, I would like you to go

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Speaker 1: back and watch that if you haven't, because we're going

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Speaker 1: to be making references to that episode. We're going to

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Speaker 1: make me talking about Tyler Robinson and these leaks that

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Speaker 1: came out from a former roommate friend whistleblower to the

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Speaker 1: YouTube account Turkey Tom, and these messages describe in great

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Speaker 1: detail the strange and toxic relationship between Lance Twiggs and

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Speaker 1: Tyler Robinson. And so Liz Wheeler and myself, and yesterday's episode,

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Speaker 1: the previous episode went through in great detail those leaks,

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Speaker 1: those sentences, those phrases we pulled out.

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Speaker 5: What could they all mean?

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Speaker 1: We corroborated that with other information, and so I would

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Speaker 1: encourage you to go and check out that episode before

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Speaker 1: you listen to this episode. But we make references as

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Speaker 1: much of it as you can. What are we doing

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Speaker 1: today today, We've got a very special guest on. It's

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Speaker 1: doctor Chloe Carmichael. She's a clinical psychologist. That was their

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Speaker 1: twisted world. Today we're going into the toxic psychology the

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Speaker 1: mind of Tyler Robinson.

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Speaker 5: And as we do that, I'm.

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Speaker 1: Sitting here in the original Charlie Kirk studio right now,

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Speaker 1: this desk right here, this is the desk where Charlie

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Speaker 1: launched his show.

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Speaker 5: This microphone was Charlie's microphone.

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Speaker 1: This is where it all began, when the Charlie Kirk Show,

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Speaker 1: and Charlie and I sat in this room and debating

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Speaker 1: and planning and scheming and doing it all. And now

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Speaker 1: he's not here. He's not going to be coming back.

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Speaker 1: And what was done to Erica and their children, Charlie's family,

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Speaker 1: It's an unspeakable evil. It's an unspeakable evil, one that

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Speaker 1: will never go away. No more bedtime stories, little girl

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Speaker 1: who will never be picked up by her father again, little.

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Speaker 5: Boy who will never get tied ad.

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Speaker 1: How to throw football, how to make a half court shot, no,

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Speaker 1: how to throw a baseball, none of that, And that

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Speaker 1: was all robbed by Tyler Robinson.

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Speaker 5: It was robbed from them.

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Speaker 1: Every single moment of every single day that Charlie could.

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Speaker 5: Have spent with his family was taken from them, and

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Speaker 5: that creates a debt.

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Speaker 1: That creates a debt ladies and gentlemen, and look not

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Speaker 1: to make it personal, but like I said, I'm here

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Speaker 1: in his studio, Charlie's my friend, and I suppose in

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Speaker 1: a way this is one of the ways that I

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Speaker 1: deal with things.

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Speaker 5: Like this is I get to the bottom of it.

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Speaker 1: I want to unpack every single piece of it that

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Speaker 1: I can. I want to dig in through every shadow,

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Speaker 1: open every closed door, look under every rock to try

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Speaker 1: to understand not just from the security perspective, the security

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Speaker 1: failures and the campus and all the rest of it,

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Speaker 1: but even the individuals and even the psychological situations, what

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Speaker 1: would drive someone to do this, And potentially maybe then

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Speaker 1: we can even learn how do we stop the next

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Speaker 1: person who wants to be a Tyler Robinson or a

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Speaker 1: Thomas Matthew Crooks or a Luigi man Gioni.

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Speaker 5: So you know, I don't.

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Speaker 1: Usually talk about it, but that's why I do what

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Speaker 1: I do, because if we don't stop them, they will

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Speaker 1: not stop on their own.

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Speaker 5: Right back, Jack the SOVIC Human Events Daily. All right,

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Speaker 5: Jack Pacific, we're back.

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Speaker 1: We're going through the strange case of Tyler Robinson and

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Speaker 1: Lance Twiggs.

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Speaker 5: This is part two.

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Speaker 1: We're now conducting the analysis of all of this. And

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Speaker 2: On September tenth, twenty twenty five, the roommate received a

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Speaker 2: text message from Robinson which said, drop what you're doing,

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Speaker 2: look under my keyboard. The roommate looked under the keyboard

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Speaker 2: and found a note that stated quote, I had the

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Speaker 2: opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk, and I'm going to

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Speaker 2: take it.

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Speaker 5: So I want to bring on now.

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Speaker 1: Very honored and excited to have doctor Chloe Carmichael joining us.

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Speaker 5: She's read through all of this. She's also an expert

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Speaker 5: on this, really this emerging field, I would say, and

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Speaker 5: I wanted to get her in to explain. Doctor Chloe,

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Speaker 5: how are.

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Speaker 4: You, hey, Dak great to be with you.

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Speaker 1: So we're and just like everyone else, we see these leaks.

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Speaker 1: We see this and I'm just gonna call it as

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Speaker 1: it seems like a toxic relationship, you know, and caveats.

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Speaker 1: You know that that we do believe these leaks are corroborated,

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Speaker 1: that Turkey Tom has photos of the individuals together, of

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Speaker 1: his source, et cetera. We do know that other photos

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Speaker 1: from inside were corroborated to be at the home that

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Speaker 1: Lance Twiggs and Tyler Robinson were living at.

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Speaker 5: And I guess, doctor Chloe, let's.

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Speaker 1: Imagine, you know, imagine these two were in front of

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Speaker 1: you for some relationship therapy. What what would your diagnosis

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Speaker 1: be just reading through some of this.

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Speaker 8: Wow, I mean, that's a that's a big question, Jack,

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Speaker 8: if these two were in front of me for some

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Speaker 8: kind of relationship therapy. I mean, I think one of

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Speaker 8: the first things that I would just need to understand

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Speaker 8: is what is their belief about the nature of their relationship.

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Speaker 8: From what I understand, Lance Twiggs believed himself to be transitioning,

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Speaker 8: you know, from a man into a woman. And you know,

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Speaker 8: apparently maybe Tyler Robinson might have been what we would

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Speaker 8: call colluding. And we used to call it a folly

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Speaker 8: audeu in psychology when you have two people that are

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Speaker 8: participating in the same delusion together. So I would be

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Speaker 8: interested to understand some of the very basic underpinnings of

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Speaker 8: how they viewed their relationship in the first place, because

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Speaker 8: especially since it appears that Tyler he that shot was

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Speaker 8: fire at the very first trans question that was posed

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Speaker 8: to Charlie Kirk. So I think the question of understanding,

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Speaker 8: you know, what exactly they believe themselves to be and

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Speaker 8: what trans meant to them might be important.

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Speaker 5: And I think that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: And you know, as we try to piece this apart,

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Speaker 1: and of course, you know, I'll say it, you know,

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Speaker 1: for you, of course, we're you know, we're looking at

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Speaker 1: this from miles away, and we're looking at this from afar,

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Speaker 1: so trying to understand and unpack given the very limited evidence.

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Speaker 5: That we do have.

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Speaker 1: You, of course clinical psychologists, but you have not been

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Speaker 1: able to treat either of these individuals. Of course, one

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Speaker 1: is in is in prison. One is either in hiding

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Speaker 1: or some form of witness protection. But you know, for me,

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Speaker 1: I'll just put it this way. I'm I'm sitting right here.

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Speaker 1: This is the Charlie Kirk Studio. This is the desk

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Speaker 1: that I'm sitting at right now. This is the microphone

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Speaker 1: where he launched the Charlie Kirk Show. I sat here

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Speaker 1: in here with him so many times, and he's he's

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Speaker 1: not going to be coming back because of what happened.

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Speaker 1: And the evidence points to the individual Heller as being

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Speaker 1: the one on the roof who did this, who etched

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Speaker 1: into the bullets, the messages towards his his you know

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Speaker 1: who he viewed as his oppressor, but a guy who's

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Speaker 1: my friend and who was the husband of my friend

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Speaker 1: Erica and the father to two small children. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's incumbent on us and really as a country,

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Speaker 1: to understand why that happened and understand what drove them

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Speaker 1: to this act. And I think when you and I

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Speaker 1: were talking about this before, I remember you had said

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Speaker 1: that it.

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Speaker 5: Almost seemed like.

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Speaker 1: Like Tyler may have been doing this as a form

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Speaker 1: of acting out of romance romance or the idea that

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Speaker 1: he was trying to protect twigs. I'm reading through some

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Speaker 1: of these new leaks and I'm wondering, do you think

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Speaker 1: there could be an angle where he was almost trying

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Speaker 1: to impress Twigs by doing this, because we do see

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Speaker 1: that the friend here in these leaks is saying that

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Speaker 1: Tyler was not particularly you know, sexually experienced. He was

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Speaker 1: also not particularly politically experienced, but he knew that Twiggs was.

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Speaker 1: So I wonder if this was a way for him,

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Speaker 1: in his perspective, to try to think that he was

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Speaker 1: impressing his his lover here.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely, Jack, And I think I've heard you use

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Speaker 8: the phrase white nighting before which to describe this, which

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Speaker 8: I think comes into play as well. You know, if

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Speaker 8: Tyler Robinson fancied himself, you know, as some kind of

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Speaker 8: a hero here. Because at this particular developmental age as well,

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Speaker 8: these are very young men there. In a way, they're

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Speaker 8: still kind of in a late form of adolescence, and

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Speaker 8: that's a stage when they can really be craving and

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Speaker 8: seeking social approval and social acceptance. They can be trying

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Speaker 8: on a lot of different identities, and you know, I

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Speaker 8: think from things that both of them have expressed online,

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Speaker 8: they may have even fallen prey to some of this

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Speaker 8: extreme vilification of straight white men, especially you know, conservative

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Speaker 8: straight white men, and so trying to really differentiate themselves

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Speaker 8: from that identity as they try to seek out their

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Speaker 8: own adult identity. You know, it seems like there could

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Speaker 8: be a little bit of a goal there as far

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Speaker 8: as you know, becoming the white Knight, but in a

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Speaker 8: little bit of a twisted sense of what it means

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Speaker 8: to be a white Knight.

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Speaker 5: And that's right.

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Speaker 1: And so when you're when they're attempting to be you know,

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Speaker 1: or you know, if this is true, he's attempting to

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Speaker 1: be this white knight, he's thinking, I want to impress

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Speaker 1: my my lover. I want to you know, gain status,

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Speaker 1: gainstanding in his eyes, because it does seem like he's

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Speaker 1: been you know, he's putting this relationship and putting this identity,

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Speaker 1: as you say, ahead of you know, my gosh, all

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Speaker 1: things like basic human decency and morality and your sort

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Speaker 1: of your normal social structures. And so one thing that

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Speaker 1: I learned, I guess, I would say, serving at Guantanamo

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Speaker 1: Bay for a year, which I did and working in

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Speaker 1: the interrogation cell, is that when you when you hear

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Speaker 1: the radicals, when you hear them, they never think that

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Speaker 1: they are radical. They think that they're completely rational and logical.

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Speaker 1: And so it's unpacking that ideology, unpacking that form of

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Speaker 1: thought that gets you to try to understand their motivations

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Speaker 1: for why they.

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Speaker 5: Did what they did.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, exactly, and they certainly, I imagine, got a great deal

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Speaker 8: of input to validate and in a certain way, you know,

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Speaker 8: miseducate them about you know, what say it means to

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Speaker 8: be trans. I mean, from what I understand, they both

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Speaker 8: were pretty heavily online, pretty heavily involved in Reddit and discord.

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Speaker 8: In your recent piece for Human Events, and when you

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Speaker 8: spoke with Megan Kelly, I thought you explored really well

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Speaker 8: the fact that they went to high school during COVID lockdowns,

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Speaker 8: and the way you said it was that they couldn't

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Speaker 8: step out into the world. The world was shut down,

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Speaker 8: and so they stepped out into the world online. And

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Speaker 8: we also know that that online world is extremely rife

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Speaker 8: with pornography, and it does appear that their expression of

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Speaker 8: their sexuality was in some way tainted by that. I mean,

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Speaker 8: I just I don't think young men naturally wake up saying, oh,

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Speaker 8: I'll be trans or oh I'm into furries. Right, They're

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Speaker 8: obviously getting that somewhere online. And I also had shared

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Speaker 8: with you a short while ago an interesting piece from

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Speaker 8: the Washington Examiner, and it was covered elsewhere that there

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Speaker 8: were basically some whistleblowers from I think it was porn

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Speaker 8: hub or some other place showing that they actively try

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Speaker 8: to convert they call it convert users of their porn

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Speaker 8: site that maybe are initially just seeking you know, heterosexual

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Speaker 8: what we might call vanilla porn, but getting them specifically

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Speaker 8: into trans stuff because they're seeking an ever higher bar

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Speaker 8: of stimulation and you know, a feeling of taboo. And

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Speaker 8: again when you have these young men that are also

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Speaker 8: at this developmental age seeking a form of identity, I

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Speaker 8: think it could be unfortunately a perfect terrible storm where

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Speaker 8: their sense of identity can even become co opted into

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Speaker 8: this trans and into this furriness, and then it gets

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Speaker 8: rolled up with this you know, leftist hatred of straight

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Speaker 8: white men in the church. I think Twigs had also

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Speaker 8: been online maybe saying some things about leaving religion, and.

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Speaker 1: Tyler they were both they were both former Mormons or

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Speaker 1: had grown up Mormon and were leaving the LDS church.

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Speaker 1: So that exactly lines up with what you're saying. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, I've spoken to some I'm Catholic, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I have some Mormon friends and I was asking him

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Speaker 1: about this as well, and they said, you know, there's this,

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Speaker 1: there's there are a lot of people in Utah that

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Speaker 1: you know, form the sort of former Mormon culture. And

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Speaker 1: for some people when they leave the church, what they

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Speaker 1: do is they run in the opposite direction to whatever

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Speaker 1: the furthest thing away from you know, mom and.

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Speaker 5: Dad and the way that we were raised is.

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Speaker 1: And in this case, yeah, being a member of a

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Speaker 1: you know, quasi antifa trans furry cell using drugs and

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Speaker 1: black market hormones is probably just as far as you

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Speaker 1: can get from a conservative Mormon background, Jack Prosobic, doctor

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Speaker 1: Chloe Carmichael, will be right back Toman Events Daily. All right,

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Speaker 1: Jack Pacivic, We're back live here, Human Events Daily. Folks,

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Speaker 6: Investigators noted inscriptions that had been engraved on casingk's hey

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Speaker 1: Here back with doctor Chloe Carmichael, Doctor Chloe. I've you know,

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Speaker 1: and I'm kind of using my sort of armchair analysis here.

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Speaker 1: I'm not an expert like you on some of this,

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Speaker 1: but the disassociation that I see here with Crooks, with Mangioni,

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Speaker 1: with Robinson Twigs as well, they're it does seem to

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Speaker 1: be a common thread. These are young white men in

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Speaker 1: the twenty to twenty seven age range. They all went

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Speaker 1: through the COVID experience. I went to the White House

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Speaker 1: and mentioned this, and people could see that roundtable on

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Speaker 1: left winging violence, and I mentioned it to President Trump

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Speaker 1: himself and said that I'm seeing an interesting profile here

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Speaker 1: of these types of shooters, and I don't think we

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Speaker 1: should overlook those commonalities.

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Speaker 5: What do you make of this?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I think that you are raising a really good

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Speaker 8: point there. So when you talk about dissociation, I also think,

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Speaker 8: for example, as you mentioned of drug use, I think

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Speaker 8: Twiggs has acknowledged online that he used a lot of

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Speaker 8: marijuana as a young person, right. And then also the

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Speaker 8: Journal of American Psychiatry acknowledged recently that even just the

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Speaker 8: medium regular dose of ADHD medication is linked to a

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Speaker 8: three times threefold increased likelihood towards issues with psychiaticism, which

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Speaker 8: is of course a.

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Speaker 4: Break from reality.

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Speaker 8: And then when we have, you know, people being steered

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Speaker 8: into this extreme online virtual world that actually kind of

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Speaker 8: requires a form of dissociation as well, when you know,

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Speaker 8: you're disconnecting with the world around you and stepping into

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Speaker 8: this virtual world. So I think that you're raising a

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Speaker 8: really good point that all of these young men during

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Speaker 8: COVID were kind of pushed into their bedrooms, pushed into

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Speaker 8: the world of computers, possibly using a lot of marijuana,

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Speaker 8: possibly also on you know, other medications that you know

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Speaker 8: may have been good for them, and you know, maybe not.

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Speaker 8: And you know, I also wonder what's going on with

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Speaker 8: these uh in some cases, the parenting. I mean, how

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Speaker 8: is Lance as he discussed online using uh not only

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Speaker 8: extremely heavy marijuana use, but he also disc us, you know,

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Speaker 8: drinking large amounts of vodka and things like that. I'm

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Speaker 8: wondering where the parents are in all of this as well.

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Speaker 8: And so if these young men are not getting grounded

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Speaker 8: in real life through you know, church, family, being out

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Speaker 8: with friends, they are, as you said, dissociating into an

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Speaker 8: online life. And when we even look at say the

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Speaker 8: icons on things like Reddit or discord, the icons, the

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Speaker 8: locos of those sites, they look like a human that's

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Speaker 8: half robot right, it's inviting this, you know, not not

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Speaker 8: the icon of in and of itself, but the whole thing,

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Speaker 8: you know, in combined with the excess of porn use.

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Speaker 8: I do think that dissociation is a good word for

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Speaker 8: that to describe what all that adds.

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Speaker 5: Up to and what do we also see.

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Speaker 1: We know that Crooks, Thomas Matthew Crooks, president Trump's would

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Speaker 1: be assassin from Butler, Pennsylvania. One of the last things

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Speaker 1: that he did before he went up on that roof

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Speaker 1: in Butler was search or notography. Then we go and

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Speaker 1: we look at Tyler Robinson, and they tell us that

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Speaker 1: his social media footprint, his internet footprint includes very strange

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Speaker 1: pornographic searches where he's involved in websites where they're digging into,

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Speaker 1: digging into the furry porn and stuff that even includes

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Speaker 1: young anthropomorphized children that are involved in these sexual acts,

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Speaker 1: something that seems very disturbing. I did not spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of time looking at this stuff, but for purposes

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Speaker 1: of understanding, I pulled it up.

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Speaker 5: It's gross. It's some of the grossest stuff that I've

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Speaker 5: ever seen.

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Speaker 1: And yet you know, they've put themselves in a position

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Speaker 1: and I think you're right.

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Speaker 5: I don't think it starts there. I think it starts

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Speaker 5: more vanilla.

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Speaker 1: But they get to a point where they're totally wrapped

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Speaker 1: around the actual because they're completely dissociated with reality.

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Speaker 5: And yet we're also told that Twiggs's.

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Speaker 1: Grandfather was the one who actually owned the home where

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Speaker 1: all of this was going on.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, that's a good point too.

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Speaker 8: I mean, apparently their their their parents were in some

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Speaker 8: level financially enabling you know, this this type of lifestyle

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Speaker 8: that they were living, which is a whole other question

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Speaker 8: as well. But you know, as well, to your point

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Speaker 8: about Lance Twiggs, in some of the materials that you

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Speaker 8: sent me here, I noticed that on his TikTok account,

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Speaker 8: and one of his TikTok accounts, the the icon, the

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Speaker 8: facial image that was posted there was actually just what

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Speaker 8: appears to be some kind of a furry hat or

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Speaker 8: furry face mask, and it was shared apparently with a

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Speaker 8: user called youngest Kami. And you know, to your point

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Speaker 8: about about the youth, and then this looping in of

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Speaker 8: of of Marxism, which of course wants to strip away

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Speaker 8: and break down the family, and to strip away and

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Speaker 8: break down religion, and so when we stop looking basically

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Speaker 8: upward to think of our identity and we look excessively

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Speaker 8: in word or excessively into the screen of a computer

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Speaker 8: where there's nothing in many ways except this extreme, ironically

438
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 8: capitalist right while they're oftentimes so hung up on Marxism,

439
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 8: but it's this extreme capitalist culture actually with you know,

440
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,719
Speaker 8: whether it be porn Hub or these other places that

441
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 8: are just trying to stir them deeper and deeper into

442
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 8: you know, really extreme pornography, which can dissociate them from

443
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 8: just their normal sense of identity and values again, especially

444
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 8: when they're at this really sensitive developmental age. So then

445
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 8: they're getting flooded with dopamine because they're you know, using

446
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 8: excessive porn, which then is followed by a feeling of

447
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 8: emptiness that they only feel that they go, this is

448
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 8: the way.

449
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: To get more quick break hold it right there, because

450
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: we can't skip this.

451
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 5: We write back Human Events daily.

452
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 7: There's some published reports out there that this individual of

453
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 7: the roommate may have been transisting.

454
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 5: Or did that correlate with what you saw?

455
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely he's going to have em PRIs to be

456
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: changed the yeah and medizing. Yeah, all right, Jack with

457
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: Sevich were back Human Events daily, we're talking about the

458
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: psychology of Tyler Robinson and Lance Twiggs.

459
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 5: I want to toss it back to doctor Chloe Carmichael.

460
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: She got cut off in the last segment because we

461
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: are talking about this situation where they're you're talking about

462
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: these young men who are living in I think very cases,

463
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: many cases, depraved states, and a very you know, these

464
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: are these downward spirals, and yet they still keep choosing

465
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: to continue on this path rather than simply walk away,

466
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: and you know, think to themselves, I don't need to

467
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: do this.

468
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 5: I could.

469
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: I can walk away, and I can go back home,

470
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: and I can go somewhere else.

471
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 5: And yet they never seem to do it, do they.

472
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,959
Speaker 8: Well no, but I mean that's because I think of

473
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 8: all of these forces to demonize and confuse them about

474
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 8: what it would mean to walk away, like what walk

475
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 8: away towards what Charlie Kirk was offering, you know, of

476
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 8: a healthy sense of manhood and community. You know, Tyler

477
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 8: Robinson had been tricked into thinking that Charlie Kirk himself,

478
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 8: you know, represented evil and hatred. I mean, can you imagine,

479
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 8: of course, the irony of saying, well, I have to

480
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 8: get rid of all that hatred and so therefore I'm

481
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 8: going to you know, assassinate him. But even from a

482
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 8: very young age. You know, there's a very haunting photo

483
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 8: of Tyler Robinson when he was maybe thirteen, and he's

484
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 8: you know, absorbed at his computer gaming, and his mom,

485
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 8: I think, had posted the picture herself with something like haha,

486
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 8: now he can, you know, totally ignore us. And we

487
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 8: know what those online games are. They're rife with predators.

488
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 8: I saw something recently on Sean Ryan's show about Roadblocks

489
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 8: actually has child facing materials there where kids can relive

490
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 8: the simulation of shooting Charlie Kirk or of being in

491
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 8: that audience. And so you young men are seeking a

492
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 8: place where they can feel strong and useful and competent.

493
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 8: And I think that these online worlds, whether it be

494
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 8: through gaming or through pornography or some of these really

495
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 8: warped places on Reddit or Discord, are hijacking that sense

496
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 8: of manhood and pointing it towards something really awful and perverse.

497
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 8: So they don't realize they need to walk away because

498
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 8: they think that they're developing into a hero.

499
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: They're developing into a hero, or perhaps even a type

500
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: of hero known as a white night. You just mentioned

501
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: they want to feel strong and useful. Why is it

502
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: that young men don't feel useful in today's society?

503
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 8: Exactly because everything that would normally guide them to feel useful,

504
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 8: like say, to be providers, protectors, you know, leaders within

505
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 8: their church and their community, it's all been branded as

506
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 8: toxic masculinity to them, especially if God forbid that they

507
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 8: should be a straight white male. And so ironically that

508
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 8: desire to be useful and strong and helpful in society,

509
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 8: they've been programmed to think the way to do that

510
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 8: is actually to tear down society and to separate from,

511
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 8: you know, even the fact of their masculinity. I think

512
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 8: that's why they may be so vulnerable to some of

513
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 8: this you know, trans stuff. What better way to step

514
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 8: away from what they've been seen as this, Oh I'm

515
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 8: just a terrible, toxic straight white male. I know I

516
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 8: could be trans. Oh even better, I'll be furry or

517
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 8: you know, date people within that space. So I think

518
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 8: it's a disavowal and, as you've said, a dissociation from

519
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 8: who they are because society in many ways has vilified them.

520
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: And this is a key element here, because they're feeling

521
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: vilified so that's what creates the dissociation in the first place,

522
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: that they then go and find new outlets, drugs, video games,

523
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: online pornography, all of these other things, because and not

524
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: to mention all of the economic effects as well that

525
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: I think, you know, we talk about a lot here

526
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: on the program in general when it comes to gen

527
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: z and how if you have this sense that the

528
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: real world has nothing for you, that the real world

529
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: is against you, that the real world is hostile to you,

530
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: then perhaps you return back with the sense of being

531
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: hostile to the world itself. And something else that you

532
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,239
Speaker 1: picked up or that you mentioned that I wanted to

533
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: go back to. And you wrote an entire book about this,

534
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: and it's the question of free speech. And so Charlie

535
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: of course was a champion of free speech. He was

536
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: participating in free speech when he was shot and killed.

537
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 5: And in fact the title of it was.

538
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: His Debate Me series, And you wrote a book, can

539
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: I say that why free speech matters and how to

540
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: use it fearlessly. So Charlie's perspective was, if you disagree

541
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: with me, come to the front and let's have a conversation.

542
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: Tyler Robinson were told in one of these conversations with

543
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: his parents before they turned him in and identified him

544
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: and all this happened.

545
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 5: That I have to stop his hate.

546
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: Now, as far as I know, Charlie wasn't ever violent

547
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: to anyone. He never physically attacked anyone, but he did

548
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: or did anything, you know, in any capacity, breaking it

549
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: laws something like that. But he did talk. Why is

550
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: it that these people view speech itself as as a

551
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: form of an attack on them physically.

552
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 8: Well, I think in part because they've been you know,

553
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 8: programmed to feel that way, you know. I honestly think

554
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 8: a lot of this traces back to Marxism and things

555
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 8: that they're learning in schools unfortunately, but it really is

556
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 8: a very strong thread within the trans movement, specifically that

557
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 8: if you should, you know, say to a quote trans man,

558
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 8: you know you're actually a woman, or you know, use

559
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 8: use biologically accurate pronouns, they'll say you are threatening my existence.

560
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 8: And I think, again there's this issue of dissociation. And ironically,

561
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 8: as a clinical psychologist, if I'm working with somebody say

562
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 8: that you know, comes into my office and says, hey,

563
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 8: I'm seeing little green men, I would not immediately confront

564
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 8: them and say, no, you're not they're not there. My

565
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 8: first questions would be, well, what do they say to you?

566
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 8: How long have you seen them? I would be trying

567
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 8: to explore and understand, you know what that delusion, what

568
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 8: that psychotic delusion, you know, represents to the person, because

569
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 8: everybody knows psychologists know that if you just come in

570
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 8: and you hit them over the head, you know, by

571
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 8: telling them that their delusion is false, they will shut

572
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 8: down completely and you know, really act out and act

573
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 8: up very much like a like a trans person who says,

574
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 8: you know, you're threatening my existence because they've hinged their

575
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 8: existence on something that is untrue. So of course it

576
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 8: creates a lot of instability. That was ironically the question

577
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 8: that was supposed to Charlie Kirk is how many mass

578
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 8: shooters are trans? And ironically he was shot at that moment,

579
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 8: you know, presumably by Tyler Robinson, presumably allegedly in part

580
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 8: maybe because of his relationship with Lance Twigs about being trance.

581
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: So he's in this conversation, he's in this relationship, he's

582
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: viewing his identity, he's viewing his as being wrapped up

583
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 1: in this which is beyond anything that the real world

584
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: offers himself, and he just seems totally lost in this.

585
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: It seems like he was totally lost in this identity

586
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: to the point where I suppose I should say he

587
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: did understand that there would be consequences, because we do

588
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: see these messages, We see these this sense with his

589
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: parents when his parents do confront him, you know, he's

590
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: trying to get the rifle and bring it back.

591
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 5: He's trying to cover up what he did.

592
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: So, you know, is there a sense then I suppose

593
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: that he's almost living like a double life where he's

594
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: one person with his parents, but he's another person with twigs.

595
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 8: Yeah, I would say it certainly does seem that way,

596
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 8: you know, kind of a bifurcated idea entity, which again

597
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 8: can be very isolating that that causes depression. It's actually

598
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 8: one of the first things an abuser wants to do

599
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 8: to a victim is to isolate them and make them

600
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 8: feel as if, you know, their their friends and family

601
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 8: don't understand them. And I think that's exactly what happens

602
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 8: when people go down this awful you know, transferry porn

603
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 8: rabbit hole online where they just get deeper and deeper

604
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 8: into this world that really does make no sense, that

605
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 8: really is disconnected from reality, and then, of course, you know,

606
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 8: the dark forces there tend to vilify the person's actual

607
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 8: family and say, oh, well, you know you should probably

608
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 8: go no contact with them, or oh, you know, they're

609
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 8: threatening your existence because you know, to your point about

610
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 8: my book about free speech and the importance of speaking accurately,

611
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 8: language is one of our most profound tools as humans.

612
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 8: It's we we actually psychologists sometimes refer to work words

613
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 8: as objects that are that are representing prototypes. So it's

614
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 8: it's really part of the glue that allows us to

615
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 8: communicate together about reality. And so when people start, you know,

616
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 8: tinkering with that by saying like, oh, well it's a

617
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 8: transman or oh, you know, this is a furry, and

618
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 8: then when other people push back on that language, because

619
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 8: it is important to be grounded in reality and to

620
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 8: be communicating accurately, they can start to unravel and become

621
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 8: very hostile.

622
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: Jack with Sobic Doctor Chloe Carmichael, The Toxic Psychology of

623
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 1: Tyler Robinson.

624
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 5: You're right back here. Human Events Daily, Today's special.

625
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 2: I am finally a notice of intent to seek the

626
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 2: death penalty. I do not take this decision lightly, and

627
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 2: it is a decision I have made independently as county attorney,

628
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 2: based solely on the available evidence and circumstances and nature

629
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:20,720
Speaker 2: of the crime.

630
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: All Right, Jack Psoker back final segment here with doctor

631
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: Chloe Carmichael. Doctor Chloe, I know that you've commented on

632
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: criminal cases before, and look, we're not just speculating on this.

633
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 5: I do believe that a.

634
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: Lot of this relationship and a lot of the psychology

635
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: here is going to come up either in the conviction

636
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: phase of the trial or in the sentencing phase. Because

637
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: we know that the state of Utah is seeking the

638
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 1: death penalty. There have been many cases where the death

639
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: penalty has been taken off because of psychological issues, and

640
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: it just seems to me that this is certainly going

641
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: to be one of the big points of contention for

642
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: the defense team for Tyler Robinson.

643
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 5: That so, if he is convicted on the.

644
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,479
Speaker 1: Basis of the fingerprint evidence, of the DNA evidence tying

645
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: him to the gun, the statements to the parents, the

646
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 1: statements to friends, let's say, for sake of argument, that

647
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: he is convicted, do you think this will play a

648
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: role in the death penalty phase.

649
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 8: Well, I certainly imagine that the defense would attempt to

650
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 8: trot that out, but I don't think that they would

651
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 8: be successful, because the behavior of Tyler Robinson following this

652
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 8: event clearly shows that he was completely aware of the

653
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 8: difference between right and wrong. He didn't show up, for example,

654
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 8: on site and say, hey, everybody, I'm going to do

655
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 8: everybody a great favor and shoot Charlie Kirk, fully believing

656
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 8: that society would celebrate him. That would be a suggestion

657
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 8: that he was unaware of the difference of right and wrong.

658
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 8: Other reasons why people might use a psychological defect as

659
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 8: a way to avoid accountability might be, for example, a

660
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 8: very low IQ or lack of intelligence. I don't think

661
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 8: that Tyler could plead that either. You know, my understanding

662
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 8: is that he was actually very intelligent.

663
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 4: What he did have.

664
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 8: I would say, is an extreme sense of grandiosity, which

665
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 8: is you know, quite common again in young men, which

666
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 8: is why it's so tragic that he wasn't I guess

667
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 8: able or willing to just you know, be around strong

668
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 8: men like you Jack, you know, people like Charlie Kirk. Ironically,

669
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 8: you know that that could lead him and shape him

670
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 8: and sometimes check him and teach him to use his

671
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 8: desire to be a man and to stand up for

672
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 8: what he believed was right in a more cogent and

673
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 8: productive way. So a person can absolutely be mentally ill,

674
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,439
Speaker 8: but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to feed

675
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 8: to an insanity plea because I don't think that there's

676
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 8: a lack of competency that his mental illness, if it exists,

677
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 8: could be used to suggest.

678
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: Right, So what you're and I want to want to

679
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: break this down because I'm I know for a fact

680
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: almost that you know that you know, this is certainly

681
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: going to be the way that they try to uh,

682
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 1: you know, go for life in prison or potentially there's

683
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: been some talk about, you know, not not officially, but

684
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: I've had you know, a lot of commentators saying, what

685
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: if there's going to be a plea deal to take

686
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 1: the death penalty off the case like we saw in

687
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: the Brian Coberger case up in Idaho and other kids

688
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: situation where it looked like a conviction was going to

689
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: be likely, Then what you're saying.

690
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 5: Though, because of his lack of.

691
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 1: I should say no, because of his direct knowledge of

692
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: what he was doing, because of his understanding of right

693
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: and wrong, because we you know, take all of the

694
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,720
Speaker 1: you know, the psychology of Okay, why was he involved

695
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: in this stuff? Why was he looking at this stuff online?

696
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: He still understood what he was doing. He understood what

697
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: he was doing, and he made a direct decision to

698
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: and and by the way he created this plan, he

699
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: was hiding the gun under his you know, under his

700
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: his clothing. This was no active passion, is what I'm

701
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 1: trying to say.

702
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 5: There's a lot of thought.

703
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: It's pre medit extremely premeditated, to the point where and

704
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: I suspect that there's going to be information coming out

705
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: that this wasn't the first time that he had traveled

706
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: to this campus, a campus that's hours and hours away

707
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: from where he lived. This was not the same part

708
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: of Utah where he and Twigs lived. I think it

709
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: was a three hour drive each time that he visited.

710
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: So it's something that and they say, when you commit

711
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: murder in a premeditated sense, you never commit the murder

712
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: once that you commit it over and over and over

713
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: in your mind before you make that final act.

714
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 5: And that's clearly what he did here.

715
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

716
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 8: In fact, I think some of the text messages, if

717
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 8: they're accurate, in fact, he says that he's been planning this,

718
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 8: you know, for about a week. So it's not as

719
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 8: if it were impulsive or in active passion. It's not

720
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 8: as if he lacks intelligence, and it's not as if

721
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 8: he doesn't have the capacity to understand right and wrong.

722
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 8: So I again with the Brian Kohlberger case, I think

723
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 8: there were some other issues where I think even his

724
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 8: confession itself might have been part of a plea deal.

725
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 8: But my understanding is that Tyler Robinson, I don't know

726
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 8: has he actually even acknowledged already you know that he

727
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 8: did this.

728
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 4: I'm not sure do you know if he will.

729
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 5: I don't believe he has in court.

730
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: But what we do know is that's he's obviously, there's

731
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: the text messages, there's the discord chat where he comes

732
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: into and says, hey, guys, I just wanted to let

733
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: you know that was me yesterday. And then we're also

734
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: told that when his parents confronted him, he implied to

735
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: them that it was in fact him, and really his

736
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 1: parents figured it out.

737
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 5: I mean they you know, they saw the gun.

738
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: It was a a unique recognizable rifle to them. And

739
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: then of course the fact that and this is what

740
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: I keep coming back to, is even beyond all of

741
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: the now of course they'll have to prove in court

742
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 1: that the evidence the DNA, et cetera. But the fact

743
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: that it was his parent that made the idea and

744
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 1: not law enforcement, I think that makes a very strong

745
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: case because what parent is not going to identify their

746
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: own child?

747
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

748
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,399
Speaker 8: And my goodness, we haven't even gotten into talking about, say,

749
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 8: Lance Twiggs's allegedly what his mother was allegedly doing as

750
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 8: well with some of the Venmoll payments. Maybe we'll save

751
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,720
Speaker 8: that for another day. But no, I definitely don't see

752
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 8: Tyler Robinson being able to successfully plead, you know, to

753
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 8: insanity because usually I think that that type of a

754
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 8: plead deal would be offered if the prosecution you know,

755
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 8: needed to get it, or if he actually had a

756
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 8: legitimate case to plead insanity as the reason why he

757
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 8: would have done this. And I don't see either one

758
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 8: of those being plausible here. My hope in prayer is

759
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 8: that he has to take full accountability for what he did.

760
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 8: I think that would be actually really good for society

761
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 8: as well. I think our society is organized better when

762
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 8: people have a sense of accountability. So, you know, I

763
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 8: love Erica Kirk forgiving him, but I also don't think

764
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 8: that necessarily meant that she, you know, was arguing against

765
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 8: the death penalty for him either.

766
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Erica has mentioned this a few times publicly

767
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,879
Speaker 1: interviews with Fox News and The New York Times when

768
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: asked about it, that you know, she I believe the

769
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: line she used is that I don't want his blood

770
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: on my hands, and totally understandable because as a Christian,

771
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,240
Speaker 1: she wants to go to heaven and see Charlie again.

772
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: And you know, at the same time, I come from

773
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 1: the same perspective as you, where it's about correction for society.

774
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: And by the way, Charlie himself was in general a

775
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: supporter of the death penalty on the very same grounds.

776
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: He points out that the Bible mandates it early on

777
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 1: in even all the way back to the Torah, and

778
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: that Charlie pointed out that it is the proper corrective

779
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: for society. And I love the way that he put it,

780
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 1: and I tweet this out sometimes where he said, it's

781
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: not just about punishing the victim or punishing the perpetrator,

782
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 1: It's about showing society that the victim's life had value.

783
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: And that's really what it all is, isn't it That

784
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: we learn to value each other as individuals. Even if

785
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: we disagree that we can still at least agree that

786
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: we each do have that value exactly.

787
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 4: And there's also an element of deterrence.

788
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 8: That's another one of the points you know, of our

789
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 8: justice system in the first place. I think that Trump

790
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 8: in this case or another case called for a swift

791
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 8: and public execution. I think that might have been for them.

792
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 5: To be calls for that in every case.

793
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 8: Yeah, but I do think that there is again a

794
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 8: value in that, you know, for for the fact of deterrence,

795
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 8: and you know, for the fact of ownership of justice,

796
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 8: that it shouldn't be something you know that has to

797
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 8: be done, you know, in private. I also, frankly, don't

798
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 8: think it should necessarily have to be something that happens with,

799
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 8: you know, some kind of a you know, painless youth

800
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 8: in Asia procedure either. I mean, I think that there

801
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 8: is value in the Arlie.

802
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: Charlie talked about this and we did a show together

803
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 1: and people have clipped it up, but he talked about

804
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 1: this the exact same way way you are, Doctor Chloe Carmichael.

805
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:42,959
Speaker 5: Where can people go to follow you and get the book?

806
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 4: Thanks Jack?

807
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 8: Free Speech Today, Dot com that's free speech today dot com.

808
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 8: I'd love to connect with people there for my book,

809
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 8: for my social media, and for little groups about the importance.

810
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 4: Of free speech.

811
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 5: Ladies and gentlemen, has always you have my permission to

812
00:47:57,719 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 5: lay ashore