WEBVTT - Huma and Hillary 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:03.680 You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:06.920 My understanding was this was going to be that I 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:09.800 was allowed to ask you some questions as well. I 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:12.559 don't know, I'm sure it's okay. Well, I'm gonna add 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.880 a little. It's supposed to be a conversation. We've had 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:21.320 a couple of those over the years. I'm Hillary Clinton, 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:23.920 and I'm excited to be back with a new season 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:27.440 of You and Me Both, and to have lots of 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:31.479 conversations with people I know and admire. And I can't 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:34.280 think of a better guest to start off this new 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:37.960 season with than someone I've known for more than twenty 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:42.560 five years, whom Aberdeen, whom and I first met back 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:46.320 in six when I was First Lady and she was 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.360 an intern assigned to the office of the First Lady. 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.159 We've worked together ever since, at the White House, in 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:57.240 the Senate, at the State Department, traveling the world and 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.240 criss crossing our country, and a couple of campaign means, 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:04.600 and boy have we been through some incredible times together. 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.240 But Huma has her own story to tell, which she 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:12.280 does so beautifully in her new memoir called Both and 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.160 A Life in Many Worlds. It's been on all kinds 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.920 of best books lists, and I am delighted to get 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.399 to talk to her about her life and about the 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:32.680 memoir she wrote all about it. So welcome to this podcast, Tuma. 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.360 I have not been as excited for any other interview 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:38.920 recently as I have been to have a conversation with you, 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:42.959 because I feel as though the reason this book exists 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:44.520 is in large part because of you. So I'm looking 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:46.880 forward to talking to you about him. You know, I 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:49.880 want to start where you start. Obviously, so many of 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:54.080 the interviews have focused on your time in the White 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:57.440 House and serving in the Senate with me, and being 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.400 in the Secretary of State to office at the State 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:05.200 Department and everything else. But I want our listeners to 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.799 learn more about your childhood. Just give us a little 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:13.560 bit of an overview, because clearly your family is at 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:17.600 the center of this story, and I want people to 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.840 know a little bit more about them too. So I 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:24.040 did choose to start my story with my family history 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:26.200 because I think this is actually something you and I 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.280 have in common, is we are both curious about other people, 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:34.440 other cultures, other languages, why people are compelled to do 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.520 certain things or make certain decisions. And for me, ever 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:39.960 since I was a little girl. I loved reading stories. 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.720 I was brought up in a house with two academics 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:47.160 who furnished our entire inner lives with books stories. We 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:50.880 would stage these theater shows for our parents. We loved 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.120 My parents love the theater, and so we'd have performances. 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:57.080 And so my brother was always the hero. My older 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:59.880 sister had Deal was always like Princess Leiah, and I 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:03.600 was always like Chewbacca or like the bad guy who 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:09.200 gets killed every single time. So when you ask, and 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:11.519 my little sister, Hibo came four years later, he was 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.600 like this dainty rose and the baby in the family. 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.200 You know, she always got to play the precious little princess. 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.240 So that's the role I played. I was the you know, 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.079 the typical middle child. I was raised in Saudi Arabia, 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:27.120 as you know, born in Kalamazoo, Michigan immigrant parents. And 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.360 I've been thinking about this a lot over the last 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.120 weeks because as I do these interviews, I tell people 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.040 all the people who asked me, why did you write 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.320 this book? And I say, to some degree, it's a 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:38.760 love letter to my father, who died when I was seventeen. 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:43.200 But he was essentially terminally ill for just about my 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:47.040 entire life, and we didn't know that it was a diagnosis. 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.560 He was diagnosed with renal failure when I was two. 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:53.120 We were living in Kalamazoo, Michigan. And it's you know, 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:55.440 one of the first lines I wrote when I was 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:57.320 writing this book, which is my father was told he 0:03:57.360 --> 0:03:58.960 was dying, and so he went out and he lived. 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:01.920 And he was my age. He was forty six when 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.840 he got that diagnosis. I was to My older sister 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:09.080 was four and my brother was not even ten, and 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.040 you know, collected their kids and we moved to Saudi 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.680 Arabia um two months later. And I think my father, 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:17.800 not knowing how much time he had left, decided that 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:19.719 he was everything he wanted to do on his bucket 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:21.680 list he was going to do. He starts the Thought 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:25.480 Institute that explored a Muslim minority conditions around the world 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:30.080 and took us everywhere. And I think that gift of 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:34.320 being curious and respectful, because really the way he raised 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:35.480 us was the only way we were all going to 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:39.040 live in peace together this world. The globe was for 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:42.160 everyone to come to the table as equals. And I 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.640 really think that grounding landed me in that White House 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.560 at twenty one as an intern for you, and it 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:53.919 was an environment that was basically driven inspired. That is 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:58.360 how you and President Clinton were, the values, the causes, 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:00.919 the missions, and it's I think one of the reasons 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:04.160 that it's been hard impossible to leave you. I think 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.320 I'm going to be in some way of service to 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.680 you until I die, because I mean, I mean not 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:11.520 to be like dramatic, but I just think it's that 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:15.880 it's that connection. Well, but I listened to your story. Obviously, 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:19.120 I've had the great delight of getting to know your mom. 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.600 I wish I could have met your dad, but I 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:25.440 feel like I have a real sense of him from 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.320 what you've said and certainly the way that you so 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:32.920 lovingly portray him in the book. But the upbringing they 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:38.440 gave you is something that so equipped you for the 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.039 work that you started to do when you were twenty one. 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:46.839 So I think that you became, in wonderful ways the 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:51.720 product of their values and their understanding of what is 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:56.159 a life well lived. And one of my favorite memories 0:05:56.320 --> 0:06:01.359 is going to the college in Jetta in Saudi Arabia 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:05.120 where you grew up that your mother helped us start, 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:09.160 and that she was still helping to run when I 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:14.200 was Secretary of State, and we went to this school 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:17.960 together to really see and be part of your mother's 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:22.040 lifelong work. And I really admire your mother was on 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.320 the front lines of women's rights. She was, you know, 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.839 involved in the preparation for the Beijing conference where I spoke. 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:31.560 Can you tell us a little bit about the role 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:36.039 that she played also in your life? Certainly in our household, 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.599 education was a religion. My parents told us ever since 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:41.760 I have conscious memories, you can do anything you want. 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:45.039 We don't care. All we require is that you be 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.920 educated and to really, you know, push myself to learn 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:52.040 and grow and experience and to be fearless. And I think, 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:55.520 I really um I give that credit to my father, 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.600 but also to my mother. She was a refugee, had 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.480 to leave her home in India after the partition and 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.080 fled to Pakistan. They didn't want to She was living 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.000 in Bombay. They had this dream life and then one 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:10.720 morning everything changed and moost America. She gets a Fulbright scholarship, 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.040 goes to the University of Pennsylvania, meets my father, doesn't 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:16.800 return to Pakistan to marry the man she was promised 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:21.720 to meets my father, they get married, and then moves 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.200 to this country. Really, what she did for my father, 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:26.480 he was the one sort of driving this train and 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.080 she was really along for the ride. But that moment, 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.040 that very first moment, she said, the first year she 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:32.880 lived there, she would look out the window and every 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.680 time she saw on airplane, she would dream that she 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.440 was on that airplane. And instead of just sort of 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.520 wallowing or being sort of angry and resentful about it, 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.480 she did the opposite. She walked into that university. She 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.360 was working at the first English language university in jed 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:52.000 Death the time. She was a sociologist. She just immersed 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:57.320 herself in the culture, in the environment. She taught herself Arabic. 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.600 So even though my father, you know, was kind of 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.600 a hero in our family, my mother is WHENO made 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:03.800 it all happen. She's the one who would bake brownies 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:05.360 when we had a bake cell the next morning. She's 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:08.320 the one who sewed our clothes. And when my father 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:12.160 was sick, she's the one who essentially aided and abetted 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.760 the illusion that he was healthy even though he was sick, 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:16.400 And she was the one taking him to the hospital 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:17.680 in the the middle of the night. She was the one 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.360 cleaning up after him and sort of propping him up 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:24.680 and allowing him to be this invincible father, and we 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:29.360 were able to live kind of really these carefree childhoods. 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:34.040 So when you came to college, eventually to George Washington 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:39.080 University in Washington, d c. You ben back and forth 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:41.840 to the United States, but it was shortly after your 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:46.600 dad had died, and as you beautifully portray in the book, 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:51.199 that was a devastating event for you and for your family. 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:56.000 What was that transition like from finishing, you know, high 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:59.600 school in Saudi Arabia and then losing your dad and 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.359 then packing up and moving to the US to gw 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:07.640 for college. I was in such shock. In fact, the 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.600 first conversation I had with my mother after my father's 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:12.640 funeral was that I wasn't going to go to university, 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:15.280 that I was going to stay in Saudi Arabia and 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:19.000 help run my father's institute. And my mother tells me, 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:21.240 your father would have wanted you to go to school 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.640 in the end, it is your choice. Shortly before he 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.000 had passed away, before he had gotten sick, my father 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:30.040 told me, um, the biggest challenge I was gonna have 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.240 moving to United States and living there for the first time. 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:34.079 For university. He called it, actually it was going to 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.319 be a revolution, and then it was going to be 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:38.839 a cultural revolution that you know, I had grown up 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.439 really in a in a society and environment where you know, 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:44.559 we had this very supportive community. It's called the oh 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:48.680 Math ever present community in Islam. That's just the community 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.839 we lived in. There was always somebody there to help, 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:54.160 to support, to be there for you. You never had 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:58.160 a sense of loneliness or isolation. So to walk into 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.720 the George Washington University campus really less than two months 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.360 after I lost my father, you know, being an environment 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:07.680 that was entirely foreign to me, and I really did 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.080 struggle with that. And the way I dealt with it 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:14.400 was I threw myself into everything. I joined every student association, 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.560 every cultural club. I kept very, very busy, and I 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:19.680 studied everything. I mean, I wanted to be a journalist, 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:21.920 I wanted to be Christian. I'm on poor She'd been 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.520 my model. But I studied political science and I took 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.920 philosophy and creative writing in theater just to see what 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:29.440 else I would love. And I think it's one of 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:33.199 the best things I did well then let's fast forward 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.679 a little bit, because you end up applying for and 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:41.880 being accepted as an intern in the White House, and 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:46.800 lucky for me, being assigned to the First Lady's Office, 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.880 and give us a bit of an impression about going 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:52.840 to work in the White House, being assigned to the 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.199 First Lady's Office, meeting me for the listeners kind of 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:58.800 paint the picture that you do so well in your book. 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:01.440 I always felt people. I think it was a combination 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:04.400 of fate, luck, and hard work that landed me in 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:08.600 that office. Because I had a friend at university who 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.720 was interning from Mike McCurry, who was then the White 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.440 House Press Secretary, And since I had intended to become 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:16.120 Christian Alman Poor, I thought the only way the best 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:17.760 way to do that was to get an internship in 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.320 the same office. But I was assigned to the First 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.760 Lady's Policy Office, and that was Milan Ververe your who's 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.760 then your deputy chief of staff for policy. And I 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.040 remember stepping on into the hallway and calling my mother 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:32.280 from those old brick cell phones and saying, Mom, how 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:33.720 am I going to be Christian? I'm on poor, If 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:35.600 I'm in the First Lady's Policy office and not in 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.040 the press office. And my mother said, you know, sometimes 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.400 plan A doesn't work out, but plan B works out 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:44.480 pretty well. And boy did it ever because going into 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.800 Milan's office, my job as an intern, my first day 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:52.600 in September was to respond to policy correspondence. And these 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:56.840 were all the issues First Lady Hillary Clinton a selection 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.439 of issues that she was working on, and I remember 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:04.720 being stunned opening one folder and it was letters about 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.960 you were advocating for female genital mutilation it becoming illegal 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.000 for it to be practiced in this country, which it 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.920 wasn't illegal at the time. I looked at all these other, 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:18.199 you know, documents early childhood development and healthcare and women's 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.280 rights all over the world. I mean, it just spanned 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:25.600 so many really important substantive issues and I've I remember 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.760 being hooked almost from day one to the work to 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:33.520 the information. It was so interesting and it felt so important. Uh, 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.080 this notion of you know, serving people and helping people 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.640 around the world. And you know, when you're an intern 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:41.800 in the White House, the President and First Lady are 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:46.400 essentially these mythological figures. You know, you don't see or 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:49.319 hear from them personally very often. So the first time 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:54.839 I actually met you was re election night November. The 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.680 d n C had charted some planes for staff to 0:12:57.679 --> 0:12:59.920 go down, and they'd offered interns an opportunity to buy 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.000 seat on that plane, and a group of interns went down, 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:07.439 and I remember walking around that lawn um as we 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:11.600 were gathering looking at the jumbo tron as the states 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.840 were called for President Clinton. I mean, it was politics 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.880 on steroids. I just remember feeling electrified. It just felt, 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:23.000 you know, so exciting to be there. And after the 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.640 election was called, you both came down with the gores 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.120 and and worked a rope line. And I remember I 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.960 was pretty far back in the crowd, and I remember 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.920 pushing my way through and reaching my hand over the 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.840 shoulders of others, and I will never forget this moment. 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.679 You reached out through the crowd and you shook my hand. 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.559 You looked right at me and you said, thank you. 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:45.319 You have no idea was an enter in your office. 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.600 And I will forever remember that moment, and that experience 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.439 that I had is something that has stayed with me. 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.559 As you've met people around the world, as you've been 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.440 at these events and done rope lines, and people would say, oh, please, 0:13:57.440 --> 0:13:59.520 please one more handshake. I would always try to say, 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:01.720 come on this side, shake that person's hand, because that 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:05.000 was you, that was your own experience. I still remember 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:06.839 my own sending. What that means. It isn't once in 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:08.960 a lifetime for many people, and for me, I had 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:14.679 the privilege of that being just the beginning. We're taking 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:27.840 a quick break. Stay with us. Well, you did such 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:32.360 an excellent job in my office, and you know, you 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.560 just developed a real reputation as a go to person, 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:41.480 and you know, we've had some amazing experiences all of 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:46.640 these years. Is there a favorite trip that we've taken 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.320 together that pops immediately to the front of your brain 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:54.160 when you think back. That is going to be very, 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.560 very difficult. So my first couple sort of stay in 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.400 my mind because I had no idea what I was doing, 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.160 and you were so patient with me. I remember the 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.280 first day they threw me in because the attitude a 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.120 little bit in our office was a little bit of 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:07.760 sink or swim, let's see if she can do it 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.200 and uh, And as you well know, I had a 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.120 hard time finding my voice. I whispered, you did not 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.480 speak up. I didn't I did I did not speak up. 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.200 But Um, when you were in the White House, I 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:23.440 remember UM staffing you on a trip to the Hague, 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.000 and as you were flying over, we got news that 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.240 King Hussein if Jordan had passed away, and you were 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.040 very close to you and the President were very close 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.480 to King Hussein and Queen Nora, and for me, as 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:34.440 a girl growing up in Saudi Arabia, he was sort 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:36.800 of this larger than live champion of peace. And I 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.440 remember you've landed in the Hague. We did a few 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:41.240 events and as you were leaving, you told me to 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.680 get on the plane and I went to that funeral 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.440 and you introduced me to Queen Nora, and this, I mean, 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:50.240 it was such a big moment for me just you know, personally, 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:54.000 it meant so much to be included. Um. And then 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.520 the trip to Israel, the fairy first trip to Israel 0:15:56.600 --> 0:16:00.480 in December I made, and you were advancing. I was advancing, 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:02.800 And I think it's important for listeners to understand what 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:07.920 that means because people who work for those of us 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:12.480 in public life, for politics often are going to so 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.560 many different places and you need to send people ahead 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.760 to you know, really nail down the schedule to do 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.040 the walk throughs to figure out what's going to happen, 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.880 and of course, in my case, coordinate with the Secret 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.560 Service and everything that's going on. So here you are, 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:33.200 this Muslim American having grown up in Saudi Arabia. You're 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:36.760 sent to Israel to help advance the trip that Bill 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.480 and I, the President and I are going to take. 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.480 There is a moment in your book that ranks so 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:45.240 true to me, when you've been working closely with the 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:49.280 advanced team from the Israeli government and you're at a 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.080 meal with them. Describe that, because I found that to 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:56.320 be so poignant. I grew up in a in a 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.080 country where you know, certainly I did not know any Jews, 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.400 and then you know you Israel was very much the 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:03.520 other I mean, and this is in the eighties and 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.720 pasting into Fatto was underway. And so even though I 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:09.280 grew up in a house where my father says, you 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.280 have to explore the other, understand, you know, I didn't. 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.280 I didn't. I just thought there was a different way 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.720 of thinking or existence. I didn't know what I expected. Actually, 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.960 So to land in Jerusalem and we stayed at the 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.000 Jerusalem Hilton that very first trip, and to stand on 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.600 my balcony, and to look out at the Old City 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:32.800 and see, you know, the most important holy place for 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.840 Jews um, you know, the whaling Wall of Temple Mount. 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.879 To see one of the most important, you know, significant 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:42.480 sights for for Muslims, the Dome of the Rock. And 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:46.000 then to know this is where Jesus Christ took his 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:50.520 final steps on the Via della Rosa, somebody of faith 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.000 of you know, one of the monotheistic faiths. To just 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.040 stare at this space and they had all happened right here. 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:58.920 It was such an overwhelming experience. And not only that 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:02.640 I was there on behalf of an administration whose entire 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.960 motivation was to figure out how to get everyone to 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:09.080 live and work together. And then at the end of 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.520 this week going to lunch, and everybody else on the 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.080 delegation aside from me who had traveled from the White House, 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:17.520 were American Jews. I mean, it was obviously, you know, 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:19.720 everybody wanted to go, including me, and so I it 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.000 was funny because all of the name plates were names 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:26.080 like Shamir and stein and Rosenthal and Steinberg, and then 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.479 Aberdeen was the last one. At the last meal we 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.560 had with the Israeli Foreign Ministry, We're sipping our mint 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.400 tea and the delegation official leans over to me and says, 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:39.360 you know, we really like this American delegation, but you're 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.560 our favorite because you're the most like us. Isn't that amazing? 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:49.320 And I remember sitting there thinking, yes, he's right. I 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:52.840 have this cultural connection. I know the food, I understand 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.239 the language. You know. It was such a moment. I 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:58.199 found a letter I wrote to my mother on hotel 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:00.080 letter had saying this trip has changed me for or 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.520 changed my life. It was so meaningful. And then I mean, gosh, 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:05.919 we went to Iceland and we bought boots together. That 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:07.840 was a fun trip on that heated side. While he 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:11.200 went to Florence towards the end of the White House, 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.159 you were there for a Third Way conference. I remember, 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:16.919 Oh my god, you got a black coat. We we 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.600 just had so much dancing in Morocco. Oh my gosh 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:24.480 at the Memmonia Hotel. I mean, there were so many 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:30.119 great meals. Oh my god. We ate around the world 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:34.040 and we continue to eat our way around the world. Boy, 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:35.720 you have fed me very well. I have to thank 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:39.000 you for that. Or the Saudia do you remember do 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:42.600 you remember the meal with the Saudi in his tent, 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.520 that tent in the desert a palace. It was the 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:48.560 biggest tent I had ever seen. It was when I 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.440 was Secretary of State and we were meeting with then 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:57.879 King Abdolah and he had all of his UH top officials. 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:01.720 I had my traveling party, plus the press, and they 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.240 laid out a meal for us in another part of 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:07.840 the tent. That was the biggest buffet I've ever seen. 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.959 It went around three sides of that big tent. Remember, 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.520 it was unbelievable, and they kept you know, you would 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.600 take a little bit, they don't. What's more, what's none 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:19.920 of us. It occurred to none of us to brief 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:23.200 you properly. This is actually my failure. You and the 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:25.520 king are walking along this buffet, and you had this 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.400 man with a tray behind you, and it had one 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.199 plate with empty spoons and then one empty plate for 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:33.600 the dirty spoons. And as you walk down the buffet, 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:37.000 you were meant to sample and then discard the spoon 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.240 and then tell the other gentleman I would like this, 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:40.760 and I would like that. And then you get to 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.000 the end. Then you sit down and they start bringing 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.199 you plates and plates. The foods you had sampled, and 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:47.000 you're like, no, I'm already full because you had basically 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:51.360 eaten at the buffet. And then I bring you your 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:53.679 cards over that you're supposed to, you know, raise with 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:57.600 his majesty, And as you're about to raise these points, 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:00.800 a TV screen come up from the middle of the 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:03.760 table and the soccer match. It was a soccer match, 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.760 so that nobody could overhear us. Right, that was a 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:25.320 strategy conversation. We'll be right back. So you probably know 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:29.359 better than anybody. What would people be most surprised about 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:32.360 traveling with me. I think the fact that I still 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:35.280 can't get over this. How you can like be getting 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:39.560 ready for a really big bilateral meeting or speech and 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.280 we're flying somewhere and then you just fall asleep in 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:46.520 the chair next to me, like when you were secretaries, 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:49.080 and it was like unbelievable, and then you wake up 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:52.760 you're like, Okay, I'm good, you know. I think maybe 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.320 the big secret that nobody knows is that everyone says 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:59.120 you're so well prepared, you're so briefed, and I don't 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:02.159 really I don't know. I think you you're either a 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:04.639