WEBVTT - Changing Attitudes About Work Has Led Gen Z to Not Dream of Labor

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<v Speaker 1>It's Monday, May second. I'm oscar Ra Mirrors from the

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<v Speaker 1>Daily Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>Gen Z doesn't seem like they want to work, and

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<v Speaker 1>they're broadcasting it over social media. Many have said that

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<v Speaker 1>they don't have a dream job because they don't dream

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<v Speaker 1>of labor. The past few years of the pandemic have

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<v Speaker 1>changed many attitudes when it comes to the work life balance,

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<v Speaker 1>and young people entering the workforce at this time don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to get bogged down and tolling away with nothing

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<v Speaker 1>to show for it. They have gained reputations as job

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<v Speaker 1>hoppers and aren't afraid to air their grievances on social

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<v Speaker 1>media with hashtags like quit talk. Terry Win reporter and

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<v Speaker 1>Vox joins us for more. Thanks for joining us, Terry, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>happy to be here. Let's talk about work specifically when

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<v Speaker 1>it comes to gen Z. You know, there's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of generational differences and attitudes when it comes to working.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, we just went through the pandemic, we

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<v Speaker 1>went through the Great Resignation. Everybody was looking to strike

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<v Speaker 1>that work life balance, and especially our younger generations as

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<v Speaker 1>they come into a workforce. That's kind of been disrupted

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<v Speaker 1>all all different types of ways their attitudes specifically are changing.

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<v Speaker 1>And one of the things that struck me is that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of this anti work ideology that seems to be

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<v Speaker 1>spreading out there. There's this great phrase that you know

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people tell you, you know, you should

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<v Speaker 1>work to getting your dream job, but a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>these gen Z people say, you know, they don't dream

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<v Speaker 1>of labor. You know, they don't. They're there, they don't

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<v Speaker 1>have a dream job because they're not dreaming of working forever.

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<v Speaker 1>So Terry walk us through some of this. What are

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<v Speaker 1>we seeing with it? Yeah, So I was really interested

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<v Speaker 1>in this popularity of as you mentioned, kind of this

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<v Speaker 1>seeming like anti work ideology online, or people proclaiming that

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<v Speaker 1>they aren't happy with their jobs, they're quitting their jobs,

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<v Speaker 1>they don't name of labor, things of that nature, and

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<v Speaker 1>whether if people are just talking to talk or if

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<v Speaker 1>they're actually you know, quitting their jobs, or if this

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<v Speaker 1>is really having a change in the American workplace. And

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<v Speaker 1>what I found was that a lot of this often

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<v Speaker 1>has kind of arisen out of discontent during the pandemic,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's led a lot of people to reassess whether

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<v Speaker 1>their jobs are fulfilling, whether they're being paid enough, whether

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<v Speaker 1>there's certain circumstances that work that they can that they're

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<v Speaker 1>okay with, and what they're not okay West and so um.

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<v Speaker 1>With most genders, UM and millennial kind of young people

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<v Speaker 1>in general, they're not really afraid to publicly quit their

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<v Speaker 1>jobs or put their employers on blast. But the reality

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<v Speaker 1>is they really still have to work on journ a living.

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<v Speaker 1>We all do. Yeah, and we've seen some of that

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<v Speaker 1>right to that point. A long time ago. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>usually didn't talk bad about unemployer publicly, privately in your

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<v Speaker 1>private circles all day long, right, that's how we vent

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<v Speaker 1>about things. But we had kind of seen this difference

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<v Speaker 1>in especially on social media, a lot of TikTok videos

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<v Speaker 1>and whatnot, just people putting their former employers on blasts,

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<v Speaker 1>almost like they didn't really care what the future holds.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, we've been hearing all these stories. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>employers check your social media all this stuff. You shouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>make yourself seem like an unseemly prospect. But even that

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<v Speaker 1>started changing a little bit. Yeah, what's interesting is I

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<v Speaker 1>spoke to a sociologist actually who studies UM labor, and

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<v Speaker 1>she mentioned that while you know, a lot of younger

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<v Speaker 1>workers have this reputation for job hopping, for kind of

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<v Speaker 1>being kind of careless about leaving their jobs very publicly,

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<v Speaker 1>there's also it kind of holds in line with this

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<v Speaker 1>erosion in the employer and employee contract. So a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of employees are entering these roles understanding or with the

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge that they're not going to stay here for very

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<v Speaker 1>long at all, Like they're not going to go into

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<v Speaker 1>a company and stay there for ten twenty years or

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<v Speaker 1>their entire life, which is something that you know, their

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<v Speaker 1>parents or grandparents might have done with an employer, And

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<v Speaker 1>so that relationship has also really changed, and a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of employers are more comfortable letting employees go, and so

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of contributes a little bit to this. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if animosity is a little too strong,

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<v Speaker 1>because not everyone is putting their employer on blasphom social media,

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<v Speaker 1>but it certainly contributes to this like overwhelming attitude. Tell

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<v Speaker 1>me a little bit more about this attitude from younger people,

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<v Speaker 1>because and you know, we we go to social media

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<v Speaker 1>a lot. Obviously, we refer to TikTok. They have this

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<v Speaker 1>hashtag quit talk when people talk about quitting their jobs

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<v Speaker 1>and all that, But what are the aspirations of some

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<v Speaker 1>of these young people, Because to the point of some

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<v Speaker 1>of this, right, it's not wanting to work. I guess

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<v Speaker 1>there was a people saying they wanted to be a

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<v Speaker 1>rich housewife is the goal? Uh, you know, I want

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<v Speaker 1>to be an influencer. I don't want to work, and

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<v Speaker 1>right this starts fueling kind of those perceptions of different generations.

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody thinks the generation below them wants to work less

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<v Speaker 1>and less and less. I know myself, I've, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>who doesn't want to not have to worry about money

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<v Speaker 1>and not work. But this is kind of the attitude

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<v Speaker 1>that's been for me. Yeah, So I really think a

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<v Speaker 1>better way to think about that is that young people

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<v Speaker 1>want jobs that are better suited to them rather than

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<v Speaker 1>kind of going in and having the hustle for like

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<v Speaker 1>certain benefits or a position that they feel um that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, caters to their skill set. So I spoke

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<v Speaker 1>to a few young people and they mentioned that they

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<v Speaker 1>want more you know, work from home flexibility, or they

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<v Speaker 1>want an employer who allows them to you know, work

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<v Speaker 1>on their own hours and you know, have a little

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<v Speaker 1>more choice over certain projects or things they care about.

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<v Speaker 1>UM and I think it's an entirely accurate to say

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<v Speaker 1>that they don't want to work. It's kind of they're

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<v Speaker 1>more particular about the work and the time that they're

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<v Speaker 1>contributing to their employers. Another thing that was interesting when

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<v Speaker 1>I was reportting this out was that there was this

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<v Speaker 1>trend of people trying to break into other industries that

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<v Speaker 1>might be better paying or have that our benefits of

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<v Speaker 1>that more flexibility. UM. An example of this was the

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<v Speaker 1>break into tech TikTok trend, where people would kind of

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<v Speaker 1>document their efforts to go from say like a customer

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<v Speaker 1>service job to you know, working for a tech company

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<v Speaker 1>and kind of the skill sets and the additional hours

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<v Speaker 1>they put in, like after their customer service jobs to

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<v Speaker 1>get into this new role where they believe that they

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<v Speaker 1>can you know, have a more fulfilled life doing that way.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't seem too far off from kind of work.

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<v Speaker 1>It's still a person's identity. They just want to be

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<v Speaker 1>in a better, higher paying role, which is true people definitely,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, even the change in attitudes from employers

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<v Speaker 1>right there's when you're talking about these tech jobs, they

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<v Speaker 1>need so many people obviously in a variety of different positions.

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<v Speaker 1>Even those employers have started not using college degrees as

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<v Speaker 1>a as an absolute requirement for employment, They're opening their

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<v Speaker 1>pool of candidates to a lot more people in that

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<v Speaker 1>sense of things. So you mentioned kind of this notion

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<v Speaker 1>right that young gen zears are job hopping, they're moving

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<v Speaker 1>around too much. But employers play a part in that also.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, when they need to cut costs, they start

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<v Speaker 1>cutting people out, they start firing people, especially throughout the pandemic.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we went through this where I worked this

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<v Speaker 1>whole period of everybody was furloughed for a moment because

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the company wasn't making as much. Then those

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<v Speaker 1>furloughs got extended, then they became permanent. You know, so

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<v Speaker 1>what does the employee do at that point while you

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<v Speaker 1>have to start hopping around? Yeah, I also think that

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<v Speaker 1>the economic circumstances um you know of this current moment

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<v Speaker 1>kind of discussions about student moan that at growing well,

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<v Speaker 1>it's inequality during the pandemic and wage stagnation over decades.

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<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of young people are aware of this.

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<v Speaker 1>They feel that things aren't changing and haven't changed for

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<v Speaker 1>a very long time, and so as a result, I

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<v Speaker 1>think they're more comfortable using um more anti capitalist language

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<v Speaker 1>and being more politically forward and kind of what they

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<v Speaker 1>want to see change. But I don't think the attitude

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<v Speaker 1>is totally abandonment of work, because that's financially impossible. From

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<v Speaker 1>its people like the country still have to go to work.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's just I think an accumulation of all these

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<v Speaker 1>different factors that have led people to feel just really

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<v Speaker 1>really frustrated, and the first thing they can do about

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<v Speaker 1>it is really to like post it about it on

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<v Speaker 1>social media. You also raise a very interesting point in

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<v Speaker 1>all of this of you know a lot of these

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<v Speaker 1>younger people that are talking about this work life balance,

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<v Speaker 1>they're very new to the workforce. You know, a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of them haven't gone through the many years of soul

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<v Speaker 1>crushing job hours and whatnot. Right, they want to get

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<v Speaker 1>in on the on the ground floor and just be

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<v Speaker 1>at the top. And there's a local radio station where

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<v Speaker 1>I live where one of the hosts coined a term

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<v Speaker 1>called the dues gap, like you got to pay your dues,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know a lot of times younger workers haven't

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<v Speaker 1>paid those dues. So in the conversations that you've had

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<v Speaker 1>with a lot of people. How do they feel about that?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, there's kind of the sense of

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<v Speaker 1>you have to work your way up in a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of ways, right. I do think that there is this

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<v Speaker 1>agreement that you have to work your way up to

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<v Speaker 1>like middle management and management. Like. I don't think people

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<v Speaker 1>come in expecting to be given, you know, a high

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<v Speaker 1>level of C suite job. But I do think the

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<v Speaker 1>desire is for every worker to feel respected in their role.

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<v Speaker 1>And I spoke to this twenty seven year old who

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<v Speaker 1>was based in North Carolina, and she said that she

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<v Speaker 1>was just really frustrated that it felt like her boss

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<v Speaker 1>didn't respect her because she was, you know, a young

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<v Speaker 1>a person. And I felt like she wanted to work

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<v Speaker 1>from home and could still do her job, but couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>you know, do that. And so I think, um, these

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<v Speaker 1>it's hard to generalize in these situations, but overall, I

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<v Speaker 1>think the attitude is that young people want to feel

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<v Speaker 1>empowered and respected in their jobs. And you know, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think that they want just a shortcut to the top.

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<v Speaker 1>You mentioned the article as well. You know, it's super

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<v Speaker 1>easy to group people by their ages and how they feel.

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<v Speaker 1>That's why you know, we're talking about Generation Z, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>younger millennials and all that, but a probably better way

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<v Speaker 1>to do it would be when they entered the workforce,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, we're coming off the pandemic, a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people going uh, you know, millennials going through recessions

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<v Speaker 1>and then going into the pandemic and and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>high inflation and all that stuff. This is what influences

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<v Speaker 1>their attitudes about work, right, And when you talk about

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<v Speaker 1>social media, people find in common ground there. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>That's how these attitudes start persisting. And that's why we

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<v Speaker 1>have these young people from the onset really, I guess

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<v Speaker 1>trying to put their future in in in the best

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<v Speaker 1>way possible, you know, I want to have that from

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<v Speaker 1>the very beginning, right, Yeah. I I also feel like

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<v Speaker 1>when I was writing this piece, I really tried to

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<v Speaker 1>source with the nuance and realize that there are factors

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<v Speaker 1>like education level, social class, raised, and gender that like

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<v Speaker 1>factor in all the reasons why people are in the

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<v Speaker 1>labor market or working or struggling to get a job

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<v Speaker 1>or getting promoted. So there's like a lot of different

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<v Speaker 1>factors at play here. But yes, the sociologists I spoke

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<v Speaker 1>with said that entering the labor market is kind of

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<v Speaker 1>the economic circumstance of how someone enters the labor market

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<v Speaker 1>will shape how they feel about work. And for the

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<v Speaker 1>past in a decade, members of Gen D millennials have

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<v Speaker 1>witnessed basically like two recessions from back to back. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's a very different labor market experience than what older

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<v Speaker 1>generations have experienced. And so what is the effect of

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<v Speaker 1>all of this? Right, We're seeing a lot more Americans

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<v Speaker 1>wanting to start their own businesses, as you mentioned earlier,

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<v Speaker 1>lower wage work workers wanting to pivot into these higher

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<v Speaker 1>paying tech jobs. We've see this whole TikTok generation and

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<v Speaker 1>social media generation, influencers and whatnot, people wanting to go

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<v Speaker 1>that way. And so this is kind of where people

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<v Speaker 1>are going to and especially and even unionization efforts, right

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<v Speaker 1>when you look at places like Amazon who don't want unions,

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<v Speaker 1>we're starting to see those pushes all over the country. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I definitely think this is in line with kind of

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<v Speaker 1>these greater union unionization efforts that are occurring across the country.

0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:31.959
<v Speaker 1>But kind of towards the tail and of my piece,

0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.760
<v Speaker 1>I mentioned that while you know Jones is very vocal

0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.679
<v Speaker 1>about this, their involvement in unions is not very high,

0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:39.600
<v Speaker 1>and that could be a result of kind of there

0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:42.440
<v Speaker 1>are fewer unionized jobs in America today than there were

0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.360
<v Speaker 1>thirty years ago, and so it's really interesting to see

0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.319
<v Speaker 1>kind of this wave of unionization among companies people working

0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.640
<v Speaker 1>at Amazon, j Potle, Starbucks, kind of all these chain

0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.480
<v Speaker 1>or very popular American companies. So I'm also really interested

0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.360
<v Speaker 1>in seeing whether you know, this will affect generally surely,

0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.600
<v Speaker 1>if this is going to carry on like in the

0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:06.959
<v Speaker 1>next decade or so. Terry when reporter at Vox, thank

0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.480
<v Speaker 1>you very much for joining us. Yeah, thanks for having me.

0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:15.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm Auscar Ramirez and this has been reopening America. Don't

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<v Speaker 1>forget that. For today's big news stories. You can check

0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.040
<v Speaker 1>me on in the Daily Dive podcast every Monday through Friday.

0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:22.560
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