WEBVTT - From First America: Merciless Indian Savages

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<v Speaker 1>Frushkam.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey listeners, Rebecca Nagel here, I'm dropping into your feed

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<v Speaker 2>today to bring you a preview of my new podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>First America. I think you'll love it. This summer, our

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<v Speaker 2>country is celebrating the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of

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<v Speaker 2>the signing of the Declaration of Independence. The way that

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<v Speaker 2>history gets told often leaves Native Americans out, But without us,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't know what happened. First America tells the true

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<v Speaker 2>story of how the United States came to be and

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<v Speaker 2>how our current political moment is two hundred and fifty

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<v Speaker 2>years in the making. I hope you enjoy it, and

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<v Speaker 2>if you do, find First America wherever you listen to

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<v Speaker 2>your podcasts. Pushkin Plus subscribers can hear ad free episodes

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<v Speaker 2>early before the release to the public. Sign up on

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<v Speaker 2>the First America Show page on Apple or at pushkin

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<v Speaker 2>dot Fm, slash plus.

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<v Speaker 3>Where do you want to parks in park?

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<v Speaker 4>Greak?

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<v Speaker 1>I think you have to park in here.

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<v Speaker 2>The Fort is that way ye. On a cold day

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<v Speaker 2>in January, I visited Fort Snelling in Minneapolis. I was

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<v Speaker 2>there with my friend Nick Astis. He's a history professor

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<v Speaker 2>at the University of Minnesota. And a citizen of the

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<v Speaker 2>Lower Bural Sioux tribe.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the historic Fort Snelling. On a walk closer

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<v Speaker 1>to it.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you just describe what the fort looks like.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the fort has a guard tower and then there's

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<v Speaker 1>a wall that surrounds the entire fort.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a series of Next to the historic buildings are

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<v Speaker 2>modern day trash cans. To let you know, this is

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<v Speaker 2>a tourist attraction. School kids come here on field trips.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a sacred site for Dakota people, which was

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<v Speaker 1>later appropriated by the US military to build their fort.

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<v Speaker 1>So look at that bald eagle. I told you were

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<v Speaker 1>going to see one. Yeah, I wish the United States

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<v Speaker 1>never appropriated the eagle. Do you hear? Look at it?

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<v Speaker 1>He's coming right towards US. I mean, I don't know, man,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know how you can't believe in the power

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<v Speaker 1>of this stuff because those things happened for a reason.

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<v Speaker 1>I told you we were going.

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<v Speaker 3>To see one.

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<v Speaker 2>The history of what happened at Fort Snelling is significant

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<v Speaker 2>to the Dakota people, and that history is acknowledged at

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<v Speaker 2>the site, but you have to go and find it.

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<v Speaker 1>It was like a healing site right over here.

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<v Speaker 2>It's next to an underpass down a long set of

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<v Speaker 2>stairs on the edge of the world. Any describe what

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<v Speaker 2>the memorial looks like.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it's like a camp circle, but in the

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<v Speaker 1>center it looks like there's prayer, tize, sage, tobacco, et cetera,

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<v Speaker 1>wrapped in cloth. And they're also prioritize in the trees

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<v Speaker 1>that surround us.

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<v Speaker 2>Who do you think left the preor chase in the trees?

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<v Speaker 1>I was assuming it's the descendants of those who experienced

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<v Speaker 1>that genocide.

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<v Speaker 2>Over sixteen hundred Dakota people were held here during the

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<v Speaker 2>winter of eighteen sixty two.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the area actually where the concentration camp was

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<v Speaker 1>actually at duckho to people, people who dared to stand

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<v Speaker 1>up to the United States were put into a concentration

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<v Speaker 1>camp and all kinds of atrocities happened.

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<v Speaker 2>The concentration camp was just one part of a broad

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<v Speaker 2>campaign to expel all Dakota people from the state of Minnesota.

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<v Speaker 2>The campaign also included death marches, massacres, bounties placed on

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<v Speaker 2>Indigenous heads, open air prisons, and mass executions.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a lot of malnutrition purposeful starvation. There were

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<v Speaker 1>reports of women being raped and violated. You know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a sight of horrors.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think most people who come to the spot,

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<v Speaker 2>do you think that they come here to honor the

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<v Speaker 2>atrocity that happened here.

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<v Speaker 1>No, they're doing winter sports recreation. I mean you can

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<v Speaker 1>see right here. You can see these parallel tracks people

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<v Speaker 1>cross country ski through this area.

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<v Speaker 2>While we were standing there, some hikers walked by. Hi

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<v Speaker 2>walking around for it. Snelling with Nick. It felt like

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<v Speaker 2>this perfect metaphor for our country, all our terrible history.

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<v Speaker 2>It's there. We just don't know how to talk about it.

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<v Speaker 2>This all started as a conversation between Nick and me

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<v Speaker 2>about four years ago. We were frustrated, well, I was

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<v Speaker 2>pissed at how Native people are erased from the story

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<v Speaker 2>of America. We wanted to tell the history of the

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<v Speaker 2>United States with Native people written back in. I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to correct the record.

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<v Speaker 3>Go up here.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, oh okay, I need a burge. When we are

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<v Speaker 2>in the car, Nick's phone rang.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna called got shot.

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<v Speaker 2>He pulled up the news on his phone.

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<v Speaker 1>Breaking witnesses report a woman was shot in the face

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<v Speaker 1>by ice while trying to flee in central Minneapolis.

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<v Speaker 2>Earlier that day, a woman named Renee Nicole Good had

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<v Speaker 2>tried to block ICE agents with her car. An agent

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<v Speaker 2>had just shot and killed her.

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<v Speaker 1>Damn, the photos are really bad. Oh god, it looks

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<v Speaker 1>like a deployed in airbag is just covered out of blood.

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<v Speaker 2>We parked and watched the video. Wow.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow, that's awful. That's awful.

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<v Speaker 2>When I was in Minneapolis last January, thousands of ICE

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<v Speaker 2>agents were on the ground.

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<v Speaker 1>It's in like a residential neighborhood.

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<v Speaker 2>Federal agents had been rounding people up, including children, and

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<v Speaker 2>sending them to detention facilities. People were afraid to leave

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<v Speaker 2>their homes. Parents stopped sending their kids to school. It's interesting,

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<v Speaker 2>given what we were talking about this morning, of the

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<v Speaker 2>history of the code of people being rounded up and

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<v Speaker 2>violently forced out of Minnesota. When I started this project,

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<v Speaker 2>I thought I was making a history podcast. I read books,

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<v Speaker 2>I interviewed historians, I went to important sites, I traveled

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<v Speaker 2>across the country. But then this thing kept happening. I

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<v Speaker 2>would be in a place learning about America's past, and

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<v Speaker 2>then the same thing would happen right here in our present.

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<v Speaker 2>You're listening to First America, the true story of how

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<v Speaker 2>the United States came to be and how our current

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<v Speaker 2>political moment is two hundred and fifty years in the

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<v Speaker 2>making from Pushkin Industries and Critical Frequency. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 2>Rebecca egele Gohein Daodan ge Lecayette gain In, La, citizen

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<v Speaker 2>of Cherokee Nation. I didn't go to Minneapolis to report

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<v Speaker 2>on ICE. I had come to interview Nick. We just

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<v Speaker 2>happened to be at Fort Snelling the day ICE shot

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<v Speaker 2>and killed Renee Good. I don't know about you, but

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<v Speaker 2>I don't believe in coincidences. I canceled my flight home

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<v Speaker 2>and stayed to report on what was happening. The next morning,

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<v Speaker 2>there was a protest back at Fort Snelling.

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<v Speaker 1>I know.

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<v Speaker 2>Because Fort Snelling is also the site of ICE's headquarters

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<v Speaker 2>in Minneapolis.

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<v Speaker 5>I was curious why you guys came today, because I mean,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, someone was literally held yesterday for standing up

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<v Speaker 5>to eyes. So is it scary to be here today

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<v Speaker 5>knowing you.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, it's scary, and I'm angry, and the anger overcomes

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<v Speaker 4>the fear. I have a good friend, and she lived

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<v Speaker 4>in Denmark during the German occupation, and she has told

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<v Speaker 4>me over and over again, you cannot be quiet. You

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<v Speaker 4>must end up, because silence is what allowed this to

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<v Speaker 4>happen in the Second World War.

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<v Speaker 5>How far are we from the historic Fort Snelling.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm just right across Highway sixty two here, And do you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know what happened there?

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<v Speaker 4>Oh?

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<v Speaker 7>No, no, don't ask you those kinds of questions. I'm

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<v Speaker 7>not good with history.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a historic court, it's.

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<v Speaker 5>The spot.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, the reason this is not happening here.

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<v Speaker 7>Is because of the ice offices that are there, not

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<v Speaker 7>because of the historic fort, but.

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<v Speaker 5>The fourth in the eighteen sixty there's actually a concentration

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<v Speaker 5>camp for Dakota people. I'm just curious if any of

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<v Speaker 5>that history feels relevant to what's happening now.

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<v Speaker 7>Yes, clearly, you know, but I mean our state. I

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<v Speaker 7>mean just yeah, I mean what I mean? You watch

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<v Speaker 7>that video. Thank god that person was there taking the

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<v Speaker 7>video on their cell phone yesterday so everyone can see

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<v Speaker 7>what happened.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. After leaving the protests, I went back to

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<v Speaker 2>see Nick Gustus at his office.

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<v Speaker 1>The murder of Renee Good and the history of Fort

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<v Speaker 1>Snelling are actually inseparable. First of all, is is headquartered

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<v Speaker 1>on the Fort Snelling Area campus.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you know if that's because it's federal land.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's headquartered there because it's federal land.

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<v Speaker 2>And why is it federal land.

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<v Speaker 1>It's federal land because it was once a military reservation

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<v Speaker 1>from the Zebulent Pike Treaty of eighteen o five, and

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<v Speaker 1>the was a treaty signed between some Dakota leaders and

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<v Speaker 1>the United States government to create a military outpost.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not just the same place. The same thing is happening.

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<v Speaker 1>People are being hunted in their neighborhoods and their schools.

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<v Speaker 1>Places that were considered sanctuary sites such as hospitals and churches,

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<v Speaker 1>are no longer off limits. One hundred and fifty years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>they were hunting us down to kill us, and now

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<v Speaker 1>they're hunting down immigrants to deport them.

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<v Speaker 2>While I was out reporting this project, a lot happened.

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<v Speaker 2>Ice killed people in the streets. I watched a kid

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<v Speaker 2>in bunny ears get detained. Our government abducted the leader

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<v Speaker 2>of Venezuela and started a war with Iran. Analysts kept

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<v Speaker 2>talking about the stages of authoritarianism, and I found myself

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<v Speaker 2>asking this question. I think a lot of people are asking,

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<v Speaker 2>how is this happening? How is all this happening in

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<v Speaker 2>the United States. The answers I kept hearing YouTube Lonely

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<v Speaker 2>white men, the economy didn't feel like enough. I started

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<v Speaker 2>to wonder if maybe the explanation was deeper than all that,

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<v Speaker 2>deeper than anything going on right now. I'm still trying

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<v Speaker 2>to figure it out. But the more time I spend

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<v Speaker 2>in the past, the more the present makes sense. Maybe

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<v Speaker 2>the answer is in that history we don't know how

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<v Speaker 2>to talk about. The first place I went on my

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<v Speaker 2>quest to put Native people back in the story of

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<v Speaker 2>America was the Declaration of Independence. This year is the

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the signing of that

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<v Speaker 2>famous doctor, and it made sense to me as a

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<v Speaker 2>starting place. I mean, it's the most popular origin story

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<v Speaker 2>of our country, right. But it turns out what I

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<v Speaker 2>thought I knew about the Declaration was wrong. Native people

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<v Speaker 2>aren't missing. We're there. We're one of the most important

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<v Speaker 2>lines in the document, but somehow no one knows about it.

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<v Speaker 6>When in the courts of human events, it becomes necessary

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<v Speaker 6>for one people to dissolve the political bands which have

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<v Speaker 6>connected them within other.

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<v Speaker 2>A couple of summers ago, on a hot July day,

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<v Speaker 2>this man in a large coat and a feathered hat

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<v Speaker 2>walked up a small set of stairs surrounded by revolutionary

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<v Speaker 2>war re enactors, Bayonets and the Twins speakers of the

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<v Speaker 2>Park Services PA system. He began reading the Declaration of Independence.

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<v Speaker 8>We hold these truths to be self evident, that all

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<v Speaker 8>men are created equal, that they are in down by

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<v Speaker 8>their creator, with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty,

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<v Speaker 8>and the pursuit of happiness.

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<v Speaker 2>At the time of the document's creation, a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>people were illiterate. Imprinting stuff was slow and expensive, so

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<v Speaker 2>word spread through public readings like this one.

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<v Speaker 6>The history of the present King of Great Britain is

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<v Speaker 6>a history of repeated injuries.

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<v Speaker 1>And usur paine.

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<v Speaker 2>I think of the Declaration of Independence like a breakup letter.

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<v Speaker 2>Our founders are breaking up with George, the third King

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<v Speaker 2>of England, and the Declaration is that part of every breakup,

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<v Speaker 2>or at least every bad breakup, where you tell the

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<v Speaker 2>other person everything they did wrong. If Thomas Jefferson and

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<v Speaker 2>King George were having a out on the front lawn,

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<v Speaker 2>Jefferson would have his finger in Georgia's face yelling and

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<v Speaker 2>another thing for.

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<v Speaker 9>Imposing taxes on us without our consent.

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<v Speaker 2>And so the Declaration is basically this long list of

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<v Speaker 2>complaints he.

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<v Speaker 8>Has plundered our scene.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of historians say that list has an.

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<v Speaker 1>Order rabbits our coasts.

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<v Speaker 2>It starts with smaller grievances our teal and ends with

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<v Speaker 2>the biggest ones.

0:15:38.075 --> 0:15:41.915
<v Speaker 9>And destroying the lives of our people.

0:15:43.675 --> 0:15:47.795
<v Speaker 2>We've been told the American Revolution was fought over taxes

0:15:47.915 --> 0:15:52.755
<v Speaker 2>and representation. But the last complaint, the thing our founders

0:15:52.795 --> 0:15:55.755
<v Speaker 2>were most angry about, goes like this.

0:15:56.195 --> 0:15:59.875
<v Speaker 8>He has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of.

0:15:59.795 --> 0:16:03.875
<v Speaker 9>Our frontiers, the merciless Indian savages.

0:16:05.275 --> 0:16:09.955
<v Speaker 2>There's a racial slur in the Declaration of Independence of

0:16:09.955 --> 0:16:15.955
<v Speaker 2>people are called savages. Alongside those lofty ideals, our founders

0:16:16.035 --> 0:16:20.035
<v Speaker 2>included their deep hatred for indigenous people, the.

0:16:20.115 --> 0:16:26.475
<v Speaker 9>Marciless Indian savages, whose noble of warfare is an undistinguished

0:16:26.515 --> 0:16:32.995
<v Speaker 9>dystrunction of all ages, sexes, and conditions.

0:16:36.115 --> 0:16:38.915
<v Speaker 2>In case you need a refresher, the popular story of

0:16:38.955 --> 0:16:44.155
<v Speaker 2>the American Revolution goes like this. Britain unjustly imposed taxes

0:16:44.195 --> 0:16:48.075
<v Speaker 2>on the colonists, and they got mad. But every time

0:16:48.115 --> 0:16:51.595
<v Speaker 2>they protested, like when they threw tea into the Boston Harbor,

0:16:52.075 --> 0:16:59.235
<v Speaker 2>the king just imposed harsher laws. The colonists started to

0:16:59.275 --> 0:17:05.515
<v Speaker 2>see their king as a tyrant, some started talking about

0:17:05.635 --> 0:17:11.315
<v Speaker 2>independence continental conferenceation. Late one night, Paul Revere rode his

0:17:11.435 --> 0:17:14.875
<v Speaker 2>horse to warn militias waiting outside Boston that the British

0:17:14.915 --> 0:17:18.515
<v Speaker 2>were coming. The next morning, the militia squared off against

0:17:18.555 --> 0:17:25.835
<v Speaker 2>the Brits, and the Revolutionary War began. A year later,

0:17:26.035 --> 0:17:30.835
<v Speaker 2>our founding fathers gathered in Philadelphia to write the Declaration

0:17:31.155 --> 0:17:47.235
<v Speaker 2>of Independence. But for two and a half centuries, that

0:17:47.355 --> 0:17:52.475
<v Speaker 2>document has been telling a different story. According to our

0:17:52.555 --> 0:17:57.475
<v Speaker 2>founders in their own words, what they were most angry

0:17:57.515 --> 0:18:04.115
<v Speaker 2>about was Indians. How did we all miss that? Can

0:18:04.155 --> 0:18:05.355
<v Speaker 2>you please introduce yourself?

0:18:05.955 --> 0:18:06.075
<v Speaker 3>Hi?

0:18:06.195 --> 0:18:07.115
<v Speaker 1>I'm Ned Blackhawk.

0:18:07.875 --> 0:18:10.755
<v Speaker 2>I went to Connecticut to find out And what's your

0:18:10.755 --> 0:18:11.635
<v Speaker 2>tribal affiliation?

0:18:12.195 --> 0:18:14.515
<v Speaker 3>I'm Western Shoshoni. And what do you do?

0:18:14.635 --> 0:18:14.915
<v Speaker 2>Ned?

0:18:15.035 --> 0:18:20.275
<v Speaker 3>I teach history where Yo University. I was the first

0:18:20.275 --> 0:18:22.835
<v Speaker 3>tenured American Indian to teach at Yo Wait.

0:18:22.915 --> 0:18:24.195
<v Speaker 2>I just kind of want to back up, like in

0:18:24.235 --> 0:18:27.315
<v Speaker 2>the entire history of yil you're the first native person

0:18:27.395 --> 0:18:28.635
<v Speaker 2>to get tenure.

0:18:28.315 --> 0:18:31.955
<v Speaker 3>Here, Yes, and I'm still the first, so the only

0:18:32.515 --> 0:18:33.635
<v Speaker 3>tenure faculty member?

0:18:33.795 --> 0:18:33.995
<v Speaker 8>Yes?

0:18:34.995 --> 0:18:35.435
<v Speaker 3>Is it ever?

0:18:35.595 --> 0:18:42.715
<v Speaker 2>Lonely? Ned wears a long ponytail and the kind of

0:18:42.715 --> 0:18:46.155
<v Speaker 2>sweater you imagine a professor would wear Ned and I

0:18:46.195 --> 0:18:49.555
<v Speaker 2>have been talking about this history for years. He, along

0:18:49.555 --> 0:18:52.755
<v Speaker 2>with Nick Estes and some other indigenous scholars, help shape

0:18:52.795 --> 0:18:56.275
<v Speaker 2>the idea for this podcast. I wanted Ned to tell

0:18:56.315 --> 0:18:59.795
<v Speaker 2>me the story of why the founders hated indigenous people

0:18:59.915 --> 0:19:03.355
<v Speaker 2>so much they put it in the Declaration of Independence.

0:19:04.435 --> 0:19:07.875
<v Speaker 2>Ned says that story starts a couple decades earlier with

0:19:07.995 --> 0:19:10.915
<v Speaker 2>this big, big war. Is it kind of like World

0:19:10.915 --> 0:19:11.555
<v Speaker 2>War Zero?

0:19:12.275 --> 0:19:13.675
<v Speaker 3>No, it is the First World War.

0:19:14.435 --> 0:19:18.235
<v Speaker 2>It started as a fight over who would control North America,

0:19:18.315 --> 0:19:21.715
<v Speaker 2>and it eventually covered the globe Great Britain one, and

0:19:21.755 --> 0:19:24.595
<v Speaker 2>they got a bunch of land from France. This land

0:19:24.635 --> 0:19:27.755
<v Speaker 2>spans from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico and from

0:19:27.755 --> 0:19:32.835
<v Speaker 2>present day New York to Minnesota. The colonists are thrilled all.

0:19:32.675 --> 0:19:36.955
<v Speaker 3>Across British North America. Columnists are rejoicing. Sermons are being

0:19:36.995 --> 0:19:41.075
<v Speaker 3>offered in Sundays, Pamphlets and almanacs are being written about

0:19:41.195 --> 0:19:44.235
<v Speaker 3>land possibilities in the interior. And there's this kind of

0:19:44.315 --> 0:19:50.555
<v Speaker 3>growing sense of shared kind of euphoria that the British

0:19:50.635 --> 0:19:54.155
<v Speaker 3>government and the British Empire are not just the largest

0:19:54.195 --> 0:19:58.115
<v Speaker 3>in world history, but also the most virtuous in or free.

0:19:58.635 --> 0:20:01.715
<v Speaker 2>Those celebrations come to a halt in the summer of

0:20:01.755 --> 0:20:05.835
<v Speaker 2>seventeen sixty three when news spreads of an indigenous uprising.

0:20:06.875 --> 0:20:10.635
<v Speaker 2>The land England took over from France is ill controlled

0:20:10.675 --> 0:20:14.435
<v Speaker 2>by Indigenous nations. What England actually wins in the war

0:20:14.675 --> 0:20:18.875
<v Speaker 2>in real terms, is forts about thirteen forts stationed around

0:20:18.915 --> 0:20:23.075
<v Speaker 2>the Great Lakes as a new fort Boston Town. England

0:20:23.075 --> 0:20:25.075
<v Speaker 2>thinks it can push Native nations around.

0:20:25.475 --> 0:20:27.235
<v Speaker 3>They don't listen to the Native people, so they don't

0:20:27.795 --> 0:20:29.515
<v Speaker 3>trade with them adequately.

0:20:29.555 --> 0:20:34.075
<v Speaker 2>And that angers indigenous leaders. An Odawa chief named Pontiac

0:20:34.235 --> 0:20:39.715
<v Speaker 2>forms a multi national Indigenous military alliance to push back. Rick,

0:20:39.715 --> 0:20:41.355
<v Speaker 2>could you just tell me a little bit more about

0:20:41.395 --> 0:20:42.395
<v Speaker 2>who Pontiac is.

0:20:43.035 --> 0:20:48.555
<v Speaker 3>Pontiac is an Adawa leader, and he's fallen into close

0:20:49.115 --> 0:20:54.755
<v Speaker 3>affinity with the preacher who's Delaware or Lenape named Neolan

0:20:55.315 --> 0:20:58.555
<v Speaker 3>Niolan is the Delaware prophet. Pontiac is the political leader,

0:20:58.555 --> 0:21:01.875
<v Speaker 3>and together they start articulating a vision for the future

0:21:02.315 --> 0:21:07.715
<v Speaker 3>that is transformative. They decide that they no longer want

0:21:07.875 --> 0:21:14.315
<v Speaker 3>their followers to rely upon the goods of Europeans. And

0:21:14.355 --> 0:21:16.995
<v Speaker 3>it's a process kind of similar to what the colonists

0:21:17.035 --> 0:21:21.355
<v Speaker 3>are going through because once they start reimagining themselves in

0:21:21.395 --> 0:21:24.235
<v Speaker 3>these ways, they decide that they're going to drive the

0:21:24.315 --> 0:21:25.635
<v Speaker 3>English out.

0:21:26.755 --> 0:21:30.115
<v Speaker 2>Pontiac and the soldiers go around and attack British forts.

0:21:30.675 --> 0:21:35.155
<v Speaker 2>One of those attacks was particularly brilliant. Some Honi Shanabi

0:21:35.195 --> 0:21:37.835
<v Speaker 2>warriors go to this fort in northern Michigan, as they

0:21:38.075 --> 0:21:41.675
<v Speaker 2>often did to trade. But while they're there, they pretend

0:21:41.715 --> 0:21:44.955
<v Speaker 2>to play a game of lacrosse right outside the fort.

0:21:45.155 --> 0:21:49.235
<v Speaker 3>And one ball makes it over the fence, and so

0:21:49.275 --> 0:21:52.115
<v Speaker 3>they ask if they could kind of get their ball returned,

0:21:52.115 --> 0:21:55.555
<v Speaker 3>And so the fort officials are opening the doors to

0:21:55.635 --> 0:21:59.195
<v Speaker 3>return the ball that's been taken, and flood of warriors

0:21:59.395 --> 0:22:00.435
<v Speaker 3>come in and destroy the fort.

0:22:06.275 --> 0:22:12.395
<v Speaker 2>Pontiac's military alliance attacks forts all over the Great Lakes region. Remember,

0:22:12.675 --> 0:22:16.595
<v Speaker 2>England took over about thirteen forts, while Pontiac and his

0:22:16.715 --> 0:22:18.435
<v Speaker 2>alliance destroy eight.

0:22:19.515 --> 0:22:22.275
<v Speaker 3>They signal to the English that peace is going to

0:22:22.315 --> 0:22:23.995
<v Speaker 3>be more costly than war has been for.

0:22:23.875 --> 0:22:27.435
<v Speaker 2>You, and another costly war for the crown is a

0:22:27.475 --> 0:22:33.515
<v Speaker 2>big problem. England is broke, like Broke broke that Global war.

0:22:33.675 --> 0:22:38.195
<v Speaker 2>England spent almost a decade fighting. It was expensive. The

0:22:38.235 --> 0:22:40.275
<v Speaker 2>Crown doesn't want to pay for another one.

0:22:40.435 --> 0:22:43.555
<v Speaker 3>And they decide, Okay, we'll make peace with Pontiac.

0:22:43.675 --> 0:22:46.835
<v Speaker 2>And why would the king do that? Because, like England

0:22:46.915 --> 0:22:49.115
<v Speaker 2>is a global empire, so why wouldn't the King of

0:22:49.155 --> 0:22:50.995
<v Speaker 2>England want more land in North Okay?

0:22:51.075 --> 0:22:54.315
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Have you ever been to India? No? Have you

0:22:54.355 --> 0:22:55.915
<v Speaker 3>heard of the Caribbean?

0:22:56.475 --> 0:22:56.835
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

0:22:57.075 --> 0:22:57.355
<v Speaker 1>Okay?

0:22:57.395 --> 0:23:01.835
<v Speaker 3>The English Crown governs millions of people around the world.

0:23:02.435 --> 0:23:05.635
<v Speaker 3>The British colonists in North America are some whole percentage

0:23:05.635 --> 0:23:08.995
<v Speaker 3>of that. The overwhelming economic priorities that the British Empire

0:23:09.075 --> 0:23:14.035
<v Speaker 3>has and Western Hemisphere revolve around places like Jamaica and Barbados,

0:23:14.275 --> 0:23:17.675
<v Speaker 3>not Virginia or Massachusetts.

0:23:17.875 --> 0:23:20.315
<v Speaker 2>Is that because Barbados makes the crown more money?

0:23:20.475 --> 0:23:27.435
<v Speaker 3>Correct, because Barbados produces large quantities of slave produced alcohol

0:23:27.515 --> 0:23:30.955
<v Speaker 3>and sugar that can be consumed across the British Empire.

0:23:31.595 --> 0:23:35.795
<v Speaker 2>So in the interests of Britain this global empire, peace

0:23:35.875 --> 0:23:39.395
<v Speaker 2>with indigenous nations makes the most sense. It saves the

0:23:39.395 --> 0:23:43.235
<v Speaker 2>crown money, It serves the Crown's interests to preserve peace.

0:23:43.395 --> 0:23:47.275
<v Speaker 2>The King of England gives Pontiac and his confederacy what

0:23:47.315 --> 0:23:48.195
<v Speaker 2>they want.

0:23:48.475 --> 0:23:51.675
<v Speaker 3>The Proclamation line of October seventeen sixty three draws this

0:23:52.155 --> 0:23:55.795
<v Speaker 3>perimeter along the crests of the Appalachian Mountains.

0:23:56.315 --> 0:24:00.835
<v Speaker 2>The Crown promises to keep settlers off their land.

0:24:00.355 --> 0:24:04.595
<v Speaker 3>So everything east is British North America. Everything to the

0:24:04.595 --> 0:24:06.195
<v Speaker 3>west is to be reserved for the Indians.

0:24:07.035 --> 0:24:11.195
<v Speaker 2>While peace with indigenous nations serves the rounds global interests,

0:24:11.675 --> 0:24:15.635
<v Speaker 2>it angers the colonists because it takes from them what

0:24:15.715 --> 0:24:18.195
<v Speaker 2>they want most more land.

0:24:19.275 --> 0:24:24.475
<v Speaker 3>Land mania, we might say, overwhelms the colonial system. Gentry

0:24:24.555 --> 0:24:28.475
<v Speaker 3>leaders people like George Washington, understood that their lands were

0:24:28.475 --> 0:24:33.275
<v Speaker 3>becoming increasingly less valuable. People like Washington and commanding their

0:24:33.475 --> 0:24:37.795
<v Speaker 3>enslaved populations to help bring nutrient rich soils from the

0:24:37.795 --> 0:24:41.315
<v Speaker 3>bottom of river beds because the fields are so Because

0:24:41.355 --> 0:24:43.195
<v Speaker 3>the fields have become so depleted.

0:24:43.195 --> 0:24:46.435
<v Speaker 2>People like George Washington made money from this thing called

0:24:46.555 --> 0:24:50.115
<v Speaker 2>land speculation. They'd buy up land that still belonged to

0:24:50.195 --> 0:24:53.795
<v Speaker 2>indigenous nations to self for profit. Once Indigenous people were

0:24:53.835 --> 0:24:57.155
<v Speaker 2>pushed out the King's new boundary, it messed up their

0:24:57.195 --> 0:25:01.435
<v Speaker 2>whole scheme. The boundary line angered regular and poor people too.

0:25:01.995 --> 0:25:05.835
<v Speaker 2>People who couldn't afford to buy private property often squatted

0:25:05.915 --> 0:25:11.235
<v Speaker 2>on indigenous land. Pioneers, frontiersmen settlers, whatever you want to

0:25:11.315 --> 0:25:14.435
<v Speaker 2>call them. We're already living west of the King's line.

0:25:15.075 --> 0:25:17.395
<v Speaker 3>And there are numbers of settlers who are forced back

0:25:17.435 --> 0:25:18.675
<v Speaker 3>east and they.

0:25:18.635 --> 0:25:19.195
<v Speaker 1>Don't like it.

0:25:19.635 --> 0:25:23.195
<v Speaker 2>And there's this other thing about the King's concession to Pontiac.

0:25:23.315 --> 0:25:28.435
<v Speaker 2>The colonists don't like peace. You have to understand that

0:25:28.515 --> 0:25:31.595
<v Speaker 2>the colonists have been at war with indigenous nations for

0:25:31.795 --> 0:25:35.395
<v Speaker 2>most of their lives, and now the king wants to

0:25:35.435 --> 0:25:37.155
<v Speaker 2>make peace with their enemies.

0:25:37.475 --> 0:25:40.315
<v Speaker 3>And in fact, the British are going to give them ammunition,

0:25:40.435 --> 0:25:42.555
<v Speaker 3>they're going to trade with them, they're going to recognize them.

0:25:42.715 --> 0:25:45.275
<v Speaker 3>Hey wait a minute, didn't we just fight with you

0:25:45.595 --> 0:25:46.595
<v Speaker 3>to control this world.

0:25:47.435 --> 0:25:51.115
<v Speaker 2>To help cement peace with Pontiac, England arranges to bring

0:25:51.195 --> 0:25:55.515
<v Speaker 2>gifts and supplies. This was how diplomacy between indigenous nations

0:25:55.595 --> 0:25:57.635
<v Speaker 2>and European powers worked back then.

0:25:58.075 --> 0:26:02.315
<v Speaker 3>Eighty supply. The mule trains are coming massive. Actually, the

0:26:02.395 --> 0:26:06.075
<v Speaker 3>logistical undertaking, if you think about it, at Pittsburgh, awaits

0:26:06.155 --> 0:26:10.915
<v Speaker 3>these traders who are going to take these goods to confederate.

0:26:11.675 --> 0:26:15.075
<v Speaker 2>The colonists organize a militia basically a band of angry

0:26:15.075 --> 0:26:17.715
<v Speaker 2>white men with guns, and attack the convoy.

0:26:18.235 --> 0:26:20.555
<v Speaker 3>The first shots of the American Revolution are fired in

0:26:20.635 --> 0:26:24.075
<v Speaker 3>March of seventeen sixty five, when one of these backcountry

0:26:24.075 --> 0:26:26.995
<v Speaker 3>militia groups known as the Black Boys attacks a British

0:26:26.995 --> 0:26:29.315
<v Speaker 3>force escorting trade goods to Pontiac.

0:26:30.075 --> 0:26:34.755
<v Speaker 2>They're not attacking Indigenous people. The Black Boys are attacking

0:26:35.035 --> 0:26:36.395
<v Speaker 2>British troops.

0:26:36.715 --> 0:26:39.675
<v Speaker 3>They say things like, we are willing to die to

0:26:39.835 --> 0:26:42.915
<v Speaker 3>disrupt and destroy these relationships.

0:26:43.475 --> 0:26:46.595
<v Speaker 2>So before the colonists are willing to die for lofty

0:26:46.675 --> 0:26:51.915
<v Speaker 2>ideals like freedom and liberty and independence, they are willing

0:26:51.995 --> 0:26:55.435
<v Speaker 2>to die to stop the Crown from making peace with

0:26:55.515 --> 0:26:59.835
<v Speaker 2>indigenous nations. And we know why they are willing to

0:26:59.875 --> 0:27:02.875
<v Speaker 2>die for this cause because they wrote a song about it.

0:27:04.075 --> 0:27:08.235
<v Speaker 3>The Black Boys create an anthem, and that anthem calls

0:27:08.355 --> 0:27:11.595
<v Speaker 3>Native peoples the enemies of mankind.

0:27:12.195 --> 0:27:14.275
<v Speaker 2>I asked ned to read part of it for me.

0:27:14.635 --> 0:27:18.395
<v Speaker 3>In March the fifth and sixty five, their Indian presence

0:27:18.515 --> 0:27:22.235
<v Speaker 3>did arrive. But when this property is designed to serve

0:27:22.635 --> 0:27:27.155
<v Speaker 3>the enemy of mankind, it's high treason in the amount.

0:27:27.675 --> 0:27:31.515
<v Speaker 3>What does that line mean? It means that the British

0:27:31.995 --> 0:27:39.275
<v Speaker 3>trading policies of supplying Native peoples are supporting the enemies

0:27:40.195 --> 0:27:44.395
<v Speaker 3>of not just southern society, but mankind. More broadly, the

0:27:44.435 --> 0:27:47.875
<v Speaker 3>Briton is committing treason not to the crown, but to

0:27:47.955 --> 0:27:52.875
<v Speaker 3>humanity as a whole. And so this vision of life, liberty,

0:27:52.915 --> 0:27:57.595
<v Speaker 3>and the pursuit of happiness for mankind, the first time

0:27:57.635 --> 0:28:00.995
<v Speaker 3>mankind is being articulated that I'm aware of, is in

0:28:01.075 --> 0:28:03.435
<v Speaker 3>deeply anti indigenous settings.

0:28:05.395 --> 0:28:11.275
<v Speaker 2>Hating indigenous people, seeing us as less than human helps

0:28:11.315 --> 0:28:15.955
<v Speaker 2>the colonists come together and form a unified identity. It

0:28:16.035 --> 0:28:18.835
<v Speaker 2>helped them come together to fight for independence.

0:28:20.315 --> 0:28:23.035
<v Speaker 3>I do believe the start of the fall of the

0:28:23.075 --> 0:28:27.755
<v Speaker 3>British Empire North America began on the Pennsylvania frontier. The

0:28:27.835 --> 0:28:33.235
<v Speaker 3>sense of lawlessness, or essentially fashioning one's own self governing

0:28:33.315 --> 0:28:38.635
<v Speaker 3>principles and practices. This is happening before in Pennsylvania, before

0:28:38.635 --> 0:28:40.355
<v Speaker 3>it's happening in Massachusetts.

0:28:41.915 --> 0:28:45.995
<v Speaker 2>We teach the origins of the American Revolution as this

0:28:46.155 --> 0:28:50.875
<v Speaker 2>drumbeat of violence and protest happening in Boston over taxes,

0:28:51.795 --> 0:28:56.995
<v Speaker 2>But years before any of that, colonists are firing guns

0:28:57.115 --> 0:29:00.475
<v Speaker 2>at British troops over Native land.

0:29:01.595 --> 0:29:04.075
<v Speaker 3>And to my knowledge, that Black Boy's history that we've

0:29:04.075 --> 0:29:07.235
<v Speaker 3>been discussing has yet to appear in any US history textbook.

0:29:08.515 --> 0:29:10.915
<v Speaker 3>Why we can't tell that story is a.

0:29:10.835 --> 0:29:11.435
<v Speaker 1>Mystery to me.

0:29:13.795 --> 0:29:16.315
<v Speaker 2>Before I left Yale, I gave ned a present.

0:29:17.395 --> 0:29:18.195
<v Speaker 3>You want me to open this?

0:29:18.435 --> 0:29:20.075
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you may or may not want it?

0:29:24.595 --> 0:29:26.315
<v Speaker 3>A Declaration of Independence?

0:29:26.355 --> 0:29:30.195
<v Speaker 1>Shot class. Thank you so much. What does it say

0:29:30.475 --> 0:29:31.555
<v Speaker 1>we the people?

0:29:32.515 --> 0:29:35.995
<v Speaker 5>What to you does that shotglass represent?

0:29:36.075 --> 0:29:43.955
<v Speaker 2>If we think about how Americans think about their history.

0:29:44.115 --> 0:29:49.035
<v Speaker 10>I wanted to say something that's easily digestible, goes down Smith.

0:29:49.915 --> 0:29:55.635
<v Speaker 10>I think we as a country are losing a real

0:29:56.955 --> 0:30:03.635
<v Speaker 10>sense of understanding about our nation's past. The Declaration, which

0:30:03.675 --> 0:30:07.915
<v Speaker 10>is full of these beautiful, beautifully rendered, you know, sentences

0:30:07.915 --> 0:30:13.395
<v Speaker 10>and paragraphs about enlightenment ideals, does also have this darker.

0:30:13.155 --> 0:30:13.795
<v Speaker 1>History to it.

0:30:14.955 --> 0:30:17.995
<v Speaker 2>Why is it important for the darker part of the

0:30:17.995 --> 0:30:22.075
<v Speaker 2>Declaration of Independence in the American Revolution? Why is it

0:30:22.115 --> 0:30:23.555
<v Speaker 2>important that Americans.

0:30:23.155 --> 0:30:27.595
<v Speaker 3>Know about it? Well, if we don't understand the full

0:30:27.635 --> 0:30:32.395
<v Speaker 3>context in which our nation was founded, we won't understand

0:30:32.915 --> 0:30:35.435
<v Speaker 3>the full context in which our nation now finds itself.

0:30:38.715 --> 0:30:41.315
<v Speaker 2>I'm mad that Native people have been written out of

0:30:41.315 --> 0:30:45.755
<v Speaker 2>the story of the Revolution, but I'm also baffled by it.

0:30:45.915 --> 0:30:48.795
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's kind of wild, right, It's not like

0:30:48.835 --> 0:30:51.075
<v Speaker 2>you have to dig through the archives to find out

0:30:51.115 --> 0:30:54.955
<v Speaker 2>that hunger for indigenous land drove the revolution. It's right

0:30:54.995 --> 0:30:58.475
<v Speaker 2>there in the Declaration of Independence, in one of our

0:30:58.515 --> 0:31:02.715
<v Speaker 2>country's most famous documents, in one of the most famous

0:31:02.755 --> 0:31:07.515
<v Speaker 2>documents in all of human history, but somehow no one

0:31:07.675 --> 0:31:11.555
<v Speaker 2>knows about it. It feels like a magic trick, like

0:31:11.635 --> 0:31:15.635
<v Speaker 2>making a rabbit disappear into a hat. And when I

0:31:15.635 --> 0:31:18.315
<v Speaker 2>started this project, that's what I thought. I was up

0:31:18.315 --> 0:31:23.035
<v Speaker 2>against the pervasive and systemic erasure of Native people from

0:31:23.155 --> 0:31:26.755
<v Speaker 2>US history. I thought the thing people couldn't see was me,

0:31:27.395 --> 0:31:31.475
<v Speaker 2>my community. And then I started to realize what's missing

0:31:31.595 --> 0:31:35.795
<v Speaker 2>from the story of America. It's bigger than that. After

0:31:35.835 --> 0:31:39.675
<v Speaker 2>I left Minneapolis, I kept hearing politicians say the same thing.

0:31:39.995 --> 0:31:42.795
<v Speaker 3>What's happening right now in America is fundamentally on America.

0:31:42.835 --> 0:31:44.635
<v Speaker 1>In there, this is just so an American.

0:31:45.315 --> 0:31:48.515
<v Speaker 2>I understand where this comes from. It comes from the

0:31:48.555 --> 0:31:52.435
<v Speaker 2>part of the Declaration of Independence. We were taught the

0:31:52.555 --> 0:31:56.755
<v Speaker 2>all men or created, equal life, liberty, and happiness part.

0:31:57.795 --> 0:32:01.075
<v Speaker 2>But when we tell the whole story, the truth of

0:32:01.235 --> 0:32:05.715
<v Speaker 2>how and why our country was founded, the present moment

0:32:05.795 --> 0:32:11.355
<v Speaker 2>doesn't feel like a contradiction. Violently rounding people up putting

0:32:11.395 --> 0:32:15.475
<v Speaker 2>people in detention, even shooting anyone who gets in the way.

0:32:16.395 --> 0:32:22.075
<v Speaker 2>Our government has done this before, not once, not twice,

0:32:22.475 --> 0:32:26.995
<v Speaker 2>many times. We just don't talk about that history because

0:32:26.995 --> 0:32:31.435
<v Speaker 2>it happened to indigenous people. I keep hearing people go

0:32:31.755 --> 0:32:36.035
<v Speaker 2>to Nazi Germany or Putin's Russia to try and understand

0:32:36.155 --> 0:32:40.115
<v Speaker 2>the rise of fascism. We don't need to leave the

0:32:40.235 --> 0:32:45.075
<v Speaker 2>United States to understand the horrors of authoritarianism. It's right

0:32:45.155 --> 0:32:49.075
<v Speaker 2>here in our own history. And if we want to

0:32:49.315 --> 0:32:53.835
<v Speaker 2>root that authoritarianism out, we have to know where and

0:32:53.995 --> 0:32:57.275
<v Speaker 2>how it started. If we think we can win by

0:32:57.275 --> 0:33:00.795
<v Speaker 2>defeating one leader, it will be like pruning a weed.

0:33:01.555 --> 0:33:06.315
<v Speaker 2>It will only come back stronger. I thought what was

0:33:06.475 --> 0:33:10.915
<v Speaker 2>missing from the story of America was Native people, but

0:33:10.955 --> 0:33:15.995
<v Speaker 2>then I realized without us, that story is wrong. What's

0:33:16.075 --> 0:33:21.835
<v Speaker 2>missing from the story of America is the truth. I

0:33:21.915 --> 0:33:26.795
<v Speaker 2>want us to know how we got here, because without

0:33:26.835 --> 0:33:35.235
<v Speaker 2>that we will never find our way out. Coming up

0:33:35.475 --> 0:33:38.515
<v Speaker 2>on this season of First America, are you guys big

0:33:38.555 --> 0:33:39.195
<v Speaker 2>chiefs fans?

0:33:39.355 --> 0:33:39.515
<v Speaker 3>Hell?

0:33:39.635 --> 0:33:44.835
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, yes, chiefs on three three je.

0:33:46.315 --> 0:33:48.075
<v Speaker 5>I feel like that's going to happen a lot.

0:33:49.195 --> 0:33:51.235
<v Speaker 1>Do Native Americans still exist?

0:33:52.435 --> 0:33:55.795
<v Speaker 3>Maybe I don't let me think so the entire plan

0:33:55.955 --> 0:34:00.195
<v Speaker 3>for funding the federal government was acquiring indigenous land and

0:34:00.315 --> 0:34:00.835
<v Speaker 3>selling it.

0:34:01.835 --> 0:34:05.835
<v Speaker 6>You were running for your lives and you saw behind

0:34:05.915 --> 0:34:08.395
<v Speaker 6>you everything you knew being burned down.

0:34:10.115 --> 0:34:14.675
<v Speaker 2>What democracy rounds an entire ethnic group up at gunpoint

0:34:15.035 --> 0:34:19.755
<v Speaker 2>and puts them into a concentration camp? Like, not a

0:34:19.795 --> 0:34:23.635
<v Speaker 2>strong democracy, not a durable democracy. I would say, not

0:34:23.675 --> 0:34:27.635
<v Speaker 2>even a democracy. It's not Is that a new thing?

0:34:28.555 --> 0:34:29.355
<v Speaker 7>Is this what we've done?

0:34:29.675 --> 0:34:30.395
<v Speaker 3>We're good at this.

0:34:34.835 --> 0:34:36.955
<v Speaker 2>If you like what you're hearing, please leave a review.

0:34:37.075 --> 0:34:38.915
<v Speaker 2>It's one of the best ways to help listeners find

0:34:38.915 --> 0:34:41.755
<v Speaker 2>this show. You can also support First America by subscribing

0:34:41.955 --> 0:34:45.995
<v Speaker 2>or sharing episodes with your friends. First America was made

0:34:46.035 --> 0:34:49.155
<v Speaker 2>possible by the generous support of the Henry Loose Foundation

0:34:49.435 --> 0:34:53.995
<v Speaker 2>in the NYU Yale American Indian Sovereignty Project. Additional support

0:34:54.075 --> 0:34:58.715
<v Speaker 2>came from Indian Collective, First Nations Development Institute, Jajavio Tom

0:34:58.755 --> 0:35:03.755
<v Speaker 2>of San Menuel Nation, Borealist Philanthropy, and Black Liberation Indigenous

0:35:03.755 --> 0:35:08.275
<v Speaker 2>Sovereignty Collective. Our fiscal sponsor is Red Media. I dreamed

0:35:08.315 --> 0:35:10.715
<v Speaker 2>this project into the world and collect Oberation with an

0:35:10.715 --> 0:35:14.475
<v Speaker 2>amazing group of Indigenous scholars, including Maggie Blackhawk Fond de

0:35:14.595 --> 0:35:18.395
<v Speaker 2>Lac Ojibwe Ned Blackhawk, citizen of the tm Ok Tribe

0:35:18.395 --> 0:35:22.235
<v Speaker 2>of Western Shoshone. Phil Deloria, descendant of the Standing Rock

0:35:22.315 --> 0:35:25.835
<v Speaker 2>and Yankton Sioux tribes, and Nick Estes, citizen of the

0:35:25.875 --> 0:35:31.115
<v Speaker 2>Lower Burual Sioux Tribe. I Rebecca Nagel, citizen of Cherokee Nation,

0:35:31.395 --> 0:35:36.355
<v Speaker 2>also reported, wrote, hosted, and executive produced. The show First

0:35:36.395 --> 0:35:40.915
<v Speaker 2>America is produced by Critical Frequency and distributed by Pushkin Industries.

0:35:41.075 --> 0:35:44.715
<v Speaker 2>Our managing producer is Amy Westervelt. Senior producer and sound

0:35:44.755 --> 0:35:48.595
<v Speaker 2>designer is Brendan Baker. Our story editor is Audrey Quinn.

0:35:49.035 --> 0:35:54.075
<v Speaker 2>Jules Bradley, Kim Nettervi Petersa and Jordan gas Pore are

0:35:54.115 --> 0:35:58.515
<v Speaker 2>our producers. Our editorial consultant is Connie Walker, citizen of

0:35:58.555 --> 0:36:02.315
<v Speaker 2>the Okineese First Nation. Fact checking by Naomi bar Our

0:36:02.355 --> 0:36:07.515
<v Speaker 2>partnership's director is Lindsay Crowder. Our development consultant is Jenny Lawton.

0:36:07.995 --> 0:36:10.675
<v Speaker 2>Our theme song is by Raven Chikhan, who is Diney.

0:36:10.955 --> 0:36:14.875
<v Speaker 2>Scoring by Laura Ortman, citizen of the White Mountain Apache Tribe,

0:36:14.995 --> 0:36:19.515
<v Speaker 2>and Raven Chacon. Artwork by Kelly Gonzalez, citizen of Cherokee Nation.

0:36:20.275 --> 0:36:24.195
<v Speaker 2>The team at pushkin Is Greta Cone CEO, Eric Sandler,

0:36:24.355 --> 0:36:29.715
<v Speaker 2>Chief Strategy Officer, Grace Ross VP of Business Development, Morgan Ratner,

0:36:29.835 --> 0:36:34.555
<v Speaker 2>Director of Marketing, Owen Miller Content Delivery Associate, Keira Posey

0:36:34.875 --> 0:36:39.835
<v Speaker 2>Creative Partnerships Manager, Jordan McMillan Social Media Manager, Brian Strabinick,

0:36:39.955 --> 0:36:43.795
<v Speaker 2>Senior Analytics manager, and Jake Flanagan Production Council