WEBVTT - Episode 43: Chris Como 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:02.400 The guys from paying They've kind of showed me how 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.120 much the equipment matters. I just love that I can 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:06.600 hit any shot I kind of want. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:08.520 We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:10.640 what goes on here to help golfers play better golf. 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:14.319 Welcome back to the Pinging proven Grounds Podcast. I'm Shane Bacon. 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:17.480 That is Marty Jerts and Marty I say this a lot. 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.119 We've got a special guest today, a very exciting guest 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:21.400 at that. 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:24.440 Yeah, this is a fun one. This is one I 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:28.080 think all golfers out there have been have been touched 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.400 by his what he's brought to this game and in 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:32.320 one way or another. 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:35.800 Chris Como, Hey guys, thanks for having me. 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.360 Chris, How how did you get into instruction? When did 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:43.480 when did that interest hit you? When did you see 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:45.560 that as an avenue in your world? 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:48.880 I think kind of like really early on. I took 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.440 up golf somewhat late, like when I was like sixteen, 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:55.440 and I've always loved sports, and and you know, I 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:59.520 got pretty good at golf pretty quickly. But I I 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.520 sort of I had this idea in my head that 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.319 if I could like study everything, read all the books 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.280 or whatever. I could expedite the process of getting better 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:09.560 at golf just by like learning as much as possible, 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:11.960 because I got completely just like obsessed with the game. 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:16.080 You know, once I started playing that was misguided, right, 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:17.920 like the pathway the game really good at golf. It's 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.360 not like reading every golf book that there is, but that, like, 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:24.000 you know, really started me down this path of just 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:27.319 being like so intrigued by the game and how do 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.240 you get better at it? I mean, like and just 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:32.959 the fact that there's like so many different opinions. I 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.839 mean I remember reading books on you know, a guy 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.800 who's the number one coaching golf and the number two 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:40.680 coaching golf and the number three coaching golf, and they 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:44.360 had like wildly different opinions, and it's like whoa, like 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:49.040 what gives? So it just really triggered this curiosity about 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:51.320 the game and just the overall mystery of like, you know, 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.200 how can you hit this incredible shot in one moment 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.280 and then the next moment you're like, you know, chasing 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.280 a ball into the woods or it goes out of 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.440 bounds or whatever. I think there's just a lot of 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.040 like kind of mysteries to the game. In some ways 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:08.120 it's a big puzzle, and early on that grabbed me. 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.440 And then you know, the natural segue from sort of 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.119 the curiosity of the game and how to get better 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:14.960 at it is is then how do you help other 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.960 people get better at it? And that's kind of you know, 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:22.960 really early on, I start down that pathway of coaching essentially, Chris. 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:24.840 I think that's what we love about having you as 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:29.960 an ambassador is how curious you are, how you've asked 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:32.840 us to in the research end to help answer some 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:38.040 very deep questions. Do you feel like you have Do 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.240 you feel like you've had all these questions in your 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.400 head and a bunch of them are answered and you're 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.680 getting closer to the end or do you feel like 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.399 as you've answered some of these questions it's opened more 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.360 doors to more than ever Where are you out on 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:52.400 that kind of spectrum? 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:54.960 Yeah, I mean you definitely start to make progress, and 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:59.560 I think you know you have more and more like 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.040 I'm gonna, if you will, kind of like understood a 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:06.720 little bit better. And then you know, as a teacher, 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:08.880 you get more tools and your tool set type of thing. 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.000 But you probably, like most things, as you start to 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.440 open it up and ask the questions. You know, more 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:18.480 questions arise and and you you know, finally sort of 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:20.519 concede that this is going to be a never ending thing. 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.840 And you know, you'll be whatever years old and you'll 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:26.280 be like, oh, you know, that was a lot of fun. 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:29.040 But here's sort of like the next set of questions 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:31.280 for the next generation to kind of play with and 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.080 make their own progress with. So it's probably like anything 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:36.920 else you do with you know, what you can with 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:38.840 the time you have in it, and it is sort 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:41.600 of this never ending thing, which is is also part 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:42.880 of the fun and challenge of it all. 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:47.120 So yeah, Chris, I mean the doors in golf open 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.760 and close as well for players, right, I mean you 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:52.640 you evolve and you get better, and you work on things, 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:54.960 and maybe a part of your game deterior rates and 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.320 you're trying to work on that. I can only imagine 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:01.040 in the world of instruction, you're always ahead because you've 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.120 got to kind of stay ahead of the golfers. I mean, 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:05.480 you think about the way we launched drivers versus the 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.360 way players in the late nineties and early two thousands 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.080 hit their drivers, right, it's completely different. I mean, you 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.200 go watch John Daly in ninety two ninety three pound 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:16.320 is driver and that ball is coming out low and 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.920 spending and now obviously the way Rory launches it, it 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.240 is starting out way up in the air, right off 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:24.120 the face. How if you, I mean, for lack of 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.560 a better term, how ahead of the golf curve are 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:31.360 you in terms of paying attention to new technology and 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:35.120 new thoughts? How hungry do you have to stay to 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.839 be where you're at right now in the world of instruction? 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:42.920 I mean I think, I mean, you're trying to help 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.839 people get better, right and then like say, you know, 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:48.800 on the PGA Tour or whatever, I mean it is 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.040 the PGA tournament is in essence a zero sum game. 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.560 It's like if if someone plays better, then other guy 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.080 is going to make less money, right, So, like there 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:00.400 is that element of it. So there is is trying 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.320 to find like edges for the guys that you're working with. 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.160 So there is that sort of zero sum game kind 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.160 of like competitive mindset that does exist of helping a 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.960 guy find an edge, and those edges you know, again 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.720 it's it's probably this never ending thing and the edges 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.400 get smaller that you're trying to push and you know, 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:21.760 as equipment changes, you know, the whole set of variables 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.480 that you're trying to find edges with change. You know, 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.040 if all of a sudden they do a ball roll 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.760 back or whatever it is, it's essentially changed the rules 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:31.000 of the game. So and all of a sudden you've 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:32.880 got to have to find edges within that new new 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:36.559 rule set sort of speak, right, But then there's also 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:38.120 like the macro of it, where you're just trying to 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:41.240 like help the game grow. You're like, you know, you're 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.000 trying to grow the GDP of golf and golf instruction 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.240 and help people enjoy the game. And that's not zero sum, right, 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:49.920 That's where you can help other people be better too, 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:51.560 and that part's fun as well. So for me, it's 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.240 always kind of that dance between those two worlds of 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:56.799 trying to find the edge in a very competitive sense, 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.280 and there's also trying to make you know, impact act 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:02.919 or progress that can help like everybody in the golf industry. 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:04.560 So I think you're trying to do both at the 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.680 same time at some capacity, But uh yeah, I don't know. Again, 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:10.800 it doesn't it doesn't ever end, right, It's just the 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.680 variables are changing, the rules are changing. So you're always 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.159 you're always finding I don't know if it's ahead of 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:22.720 the curve, it's it's the landscape's changing enough that if 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.400 you are going to find edges, you know you got 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:27.800 to you got to sort of keep looking. And for me, 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.280 the hunger part, like curiosity has always been like a 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:35.800 pretty strong driving force for me. So as long as 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:37.839 there's questions that's like I don't know the answer to, 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.159 or there's there's things where it's like, oh, that's interesting, 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:42.359 I haven't seen that before. I think that sort of 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:45.479 natural hunger that comes from that curiosity will will probably 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:46.159 always be there. 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:48.440 Chris, you touched on some of it. I have my 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.080 own hypothesis on why you've taken this approach, but I've 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:54.240 always wanted to ask you this question you talked about 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.960 in terms of helping the golf community, other golf instructors 0:06:58.000 --> 0:06:59.880 get better, That's kind of why I let off with 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.520 You've you've you've touched a lot of players, whether they 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:06.000 know it or not, but you've taken this approach to 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:11.160 be very open with sharing your questions, your ideas, crowdsourcing, 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.040 getting answers to those questions to the other best golf 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.680 instructors in the world where I I would think that, 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.400 you know, other great teachers might keep some things like 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.240 trade secret or close to their chest on their findings 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.480 or what they're trying to research. Why have you taken 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.520 that approach? What's been the inspiration story behind this approach 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.320 to be a little bit more open with asking these 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:38.480 questions and these these deep scientific or biomechanical questions that 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.880 you've done over the over the last decade or so. 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.720 That's an interesting question. Huh. I'm not sure if I 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:49.520 fully know the answer to that. I would say I 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:53.360 don't know. I think I genuinely like like just sharing 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.119 and seeing industry grow. I mean, I again, I didn't 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.960 grow up playing golf, and no one my fans played golf, 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.000 you know, golf expensive, and I didn't grow you know, 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:03.960 I had whatever, Like, I didn't grew up in like 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.200 a very sort of like affluent environment or anything. And 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:08.800 golf has like provided so many incredible things for me. 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.520 So there is an element of like just an appreciation 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:13.720 for the game. So if I can like impact and 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:15.880 give to it, that's that's awesome. Like I love that 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.560 I have an appreciation for teachers, like the teaching industry. 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.440 I know it's a tough gig, right, Like I've I've 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:25.640 done it in so many different versions teaching at driving rangeery. 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:27.560 You can barely pay your bills or whatever. So I 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.880 just have a strong sort of like appreciation affinity for 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.760 people in the business. So there is just a genuine 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:35.480 sort of like I like kind of like sharing it. 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.280 I like the dialogue. I feel like having it be 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:42.040 more open sourced allows more people to think about it. 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.800 So I think there's you know, a higher acceleration at 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:46.520 my own learning because it's like, yeah, you can ask 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.200 like a question or give an insight to something. But 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.319 the bigger the population of people who are like maybe 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:53.960 talking about something, They're gonna have their own ideas, which 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:55.480 is going to have its own sort of like you know, 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:57.400 kind of like you know, loop to it to where 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.080 I'm going to get better with it. So there's that 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.080 like you have these different aspects of you as like 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.520 a human, right, I'm very curious. There's like a part 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:07.720 of me that likes to like share with the community, 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:09.960 but then there's also part of me that's competitive and wants, 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:11.960 like my guess to play really well. So how do 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:13.679 you like, how do you have all those things be 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:15.240 true at the same time and like get the most 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:18.319 out of it. I think I'd at least like to think, 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:19.880 maybe this is a little cocky, but I'd like to 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.280 think that part of my edge in the competitive sense 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:25.360 is the way I kind of put it all together 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.640 and the problem solving aspect of it. So I don't 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.200 look at this and like here's some rote knowledge and 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:31.760 now you know it, and now all of a sudden 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:33.640 it's like easy. Like you still got to like figure 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.640 out how to put the puzzle together. How do you 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:37.679 take an individual in front of you who's got their 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.560 own crazinesses or golf swing, the way their mind works, 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.280 the way their emotions process things, And then you got 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:45.760 to like put in maybe some sort of understanding of 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.160 whatever it is, golf swing technique, groundwraction, whatever the thing 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.480 is you know you're factoring in, and then take this puzzle, 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:55.880 put it together and help a guy play better with it. 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:59.840 That's its own thing that one. Even if I wanted 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:02.120 to like try to like teach it to someone else, 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.040 like it's kind of impossible to do. So, you know, 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.640 I feel like my real edge is the problem solving 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.120 aspect of it, and putting it all together. So in 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:15.959 some ways, I'm not really worried about, you know, giving 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.439 that away. I guess, now someone else might be have 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.600 their own way that fits another person better or whatever 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.560 it is, and you know, so they could be better with, 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:26.880 you know, whatever set of people. But the way I 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.120 put together is in a sense, my monopoly of that 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:31.360 good or bad, like it or not like it. It's 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:33.719 it's sort of mine. So I'm not really worried about, 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:35.360 you know, competition that in that way. 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.560 I guess, Chris, what was your I made it moment? 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:40.360 I mean, you know, we all have had it in 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.880 this world. You're talking about teaching lessons at a driving 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:46.640 range and you know, barely getting by. When did you 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.240 have the moment where you went, oh, my goodness, X 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.680 paid attention to me, or somebody called me, or you know, 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:54.760 somebody wants my opinion on this? Did you have one 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:57.040 of those? That comes to mind? 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:01.240 So when I graduated undergrad I was at this like 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.079 I wouldn't have been in the golf business unless I 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:06.480 was teaching, Like that's the only thing I had interest 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:08.280 in doing in the golf missess, I would have done 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:14.240 something else. And I I felt like in part because, 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.680 like how I said earlier, there was so many different 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.080 opinions on which you have in the golf swing. It's 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:22.000 like I've already talked to too, you know, physicists and 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.720 be like, if I let go of my phone, what's 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.120 going to happen? They're all going to say, well, it's 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.079 going to go to the ground because you know, Newtonian 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:31.800 physics is sort of understood right. So to me that 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:35.640 there were such different opinions, I'm like, there's a gap 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.480 in the body knowledge at some level. And and you know, 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:40.240 I felt like that was an opportunity and I'm like, 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:41.839 I'm going to go out there and really try to 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:43.000 be like good at this. I'm gonna try to be 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.640 the best at this. And that's what kind of like 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.040 set me off on the whole golf coaching path. And 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:52.280 you know, I went and traveled the country. I worked 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:53.920 led for a little bit, worked for Haney for a 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:56.520 little bit, spent a couple of years, uh, you know 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.000 with maclgrady kind of hanging out with him, did all 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:03.760 all the certifications like TPI, Paul Czeck, YadA, YadA, YadA, 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.119 and I ended up in Dallas to do an academy, 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.120 and the first year at this academy, I was working 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:12.640 like sixty seven hours a week and I made nineteen 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:16.079 thousand dollars at this academy. I mean they made no money. 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:18.680 Like you know, it was I was eating into savings whatever, right, 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:22.320 And it was such a what's the right way to 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.360 say this, it was it was. It was not pleasant. 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:27.840 It was it was I don't know if you guys 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:29.319 can cents this, but it was a kick and it 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.000 was just a kick in the butt where you're just like, yeah. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.160 Just a it's a total grind, I mean just grinding, 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:35.800 grind and grind, and it. 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:37.160 Was one of those things. I had some friends who 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.120 had gone to law school. Yeah, and I'm making no 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.640 money and I'm like, man, this was a bad decision. 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:46.160 But it wasn't because my heart was still like so 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:51.040 into it, right. So I ended up. Long story short 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:55.160 of Marty probably knows this, I end up. I had 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.080 joined a free poker league. Had done on that free 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.320 poker league, which the one player of the year they 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.760 fled to Vegas to play in a tournament. Came and forth. 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:06.000 In this tournament, the Bolagio win forty grand one night, 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.680 which doubled my year salary, take that money, break away 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:13.480 at a driving range, and basically start to build like 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.280 a golf book. But I was also playing poker at 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.880 night in like the Dallas underground poker scene for a 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.679 few years. So I'm like funding my golf passion instruction 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:26.800 through playing poker at night, which is so ridiculous in hindsight. 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.480 Start to really through a couple of like, you know, 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:32.719 the right people playing well. There was a guy named 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:34.400 Mike Madonna who used to play for the Dallas Stars. 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.320 He'd start playing some good golf to help generate some 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.560 like business. Scott Foster, the Guy of a Decade, actually 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.920 met him in a poker room. He got a partial 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.040 status on the web dot com tour. I was helping him, 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.079 had some really good juniors, and then all of a sudden, 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.640 I start building a book and they wake up one 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:56.680 day and I'm like, actually like making a living teaching golf. 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.000 But it was my own book too. It was like autonomous, right, 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.200 wasn't at an academy. It was like my business. It 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:05.200 wasn't where I could get fired the next day. It 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.199 was like if I had left that driver range, the 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.120 people would go to me. Someplace else. So it was 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.280 like a true sort of like autonomous. I built like 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.360 a business teaching golf where I can pay my bills. 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:19.400 And this was this was before I went to grad 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:21.920 school for biomechanics. This was before I started teaching like 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.880 tour guys. But it was like a place where it's 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.360 like I actually can like do this and make a 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.680 living doing it, like a decent living. I was actually 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:31.800 started to get really busy and was able to make 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.440 kind of like a nice living. And that that's when 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:37.080 I felt like, Okay, I made it, because you know, 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:40.040 I was actually able to eat from teaching golf. 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:43.680 So Shane N's in a little bit of a connection 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.000 here to Victor playing playing Poker two and talking about 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:49.120 you know, trying to get those little edges and making 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:53.160 those little bets. Right. I think that's pretty interesting, Chris. 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:55.800 What about let's let's talk about what happened next there? 0:14:55.960 --> 0:15:00.720 And like, I think, you know, you've a lot of 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:05.240 the academic I think been sort of like the best 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:10.760 applied scientists or applied problem solver taking some very academic principles, 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.120 and then as you stated yourself, you know, you think 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:16.400 your expertise is how you glue it together and apply 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.560 it holistically to your players. So tell us about that journey, 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:21.280 some of the things you've done. I mean, you've written 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:26.280 a couple of papers in the Journal of Sports bio Biomechanics. 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:30.280 How how did you get into that and how important 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:34.080 has that been for you in your skill set? Is 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:36.520 a foundation, is a is an instructor? 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.080 So so yeah, so I you know, done all that. 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.680 Where I'd worked for different guys was teaching, had built 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.000 like a nice teaching business. And at this point I'm 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.640 now at a country club called Glen Eagles, and I'm 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.440 like grinding on the range, teaching all day. In some ways, 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:53.760 I think I was always like running away from you know, 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.800 like that it wouldn't work. So you know, if someone 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.480 wanted a lesson, if it was at sixth in the 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:01.960 morning or night, like they're getting a lesson, and I 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.240 was out there all day like just grinding, right, and 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.560 which is awesome. It was such a fun window. A 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.600 friend of mine, his name is Chris Robinson. I've lost 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:12.120 touch with them. I don't know where he is. Chris Robinson, 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.400 here's this. Hit me up, curious about what you're doing. 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.240 So he was doing his PhD at TWU and he's like, 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.520 there's this really cool biomechanicslibe. You got to come check out. 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.400 So I go to this lab and you know, they 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.440 had the VITE I didn't even there was just the 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:28.480 fancy cameras that you see like in like you know, 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.280 video games or whatever is they're Vicom three D motion cameras. 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:33.560 They had this crazy lab and there was this professor 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.080 there named doctor Kuan. So I go to doctor Kwan 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:38.480 and I'm like, and they weren't doing any golf research 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:40.040 at the point. I'm like, do you have any interest 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.280 in studying golf? He's like, yeah, bring me golfers. So 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:46.560 I start bringing my students, different people from the club. 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.000 We start collecting a bunch of data and just me 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:51.240 being curious, I started asking them all these questions and 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:53.800 he's like, why don't you just take my undergraduate Bao 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.840 mechanics class. So I take the class and I like 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:00.320 loved it. And there was like so many little things 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.040 where I was like, oh, that makes sense why I 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.679 see this in a swing or that, or starting to 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:08.199 understand better the constraints of the human body, and I 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:11.879 just I felt like I had this like flooding of 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:15.120 like insights of things that I had seen in teaching 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:17.840 or other teachers, things that I had learned, and it 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:21.640 just kind of like gave it a framework and sort 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.680 of the context for those things to make more sense 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:26.080 to me. Like this is really cool. So I take 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.480 the class, did one in the class in Kwan's like, hey, 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:30.399 you got an aptitude for this, you should do like 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.760 the graduate program. So anyway, do some other stuff to 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.159 kind of like prerex sits and YadA, YadA YadA. I 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.800 end up in his graduate program and to do a 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:45.560 master's game bo mechanics, and I remember the first semester. 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:49.000 The first class was like just like a mechanics class 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:53.040 and it was all like form. Kwan's this amazing professor. 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.000 He's very much like a math first type of professor. 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:57.960 And I sitting there and I'm like, oh my god, 0:17:58.080 --> 0:17:59.919 I get myself into it. I remember going to him. 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:01.119 I was like it was like a month in the 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.159 class on like a golf pro Like I don't know 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.280 what I'm doing, and he's like he gave me this 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.919 like pep talk sort of. He was like he was 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.520 like there's this proverb where like Koreean general if the 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:17.600 army is like facing which feels like an insurmountable foe 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:19.840 that the general will back the army up against the 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:21.720 body of water so they have no place to run. 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:23.919 I'm like, you're basically calling me a whats aren't you. 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.040 He's like, guess, So I stuck it out. That first 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:30.000 class was actually the hardest, and then and then we 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:32.000 went to it like on a nice flow. I was 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:34.800 taking the coursework, I was working during the day. We 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.760 were collecting data on golfers, like you mentioned, we published 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.760 a couple of papers that were really cool. You know, 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.160 I'd eventually completed all the coursework for masterstream and bio Mechanics, 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.399 so I've done everything except for I have like a 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:48.800 ten page thesis or something to write. But that's when 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:50.520 Tiger Woods called me. Was like, right when I was 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:51.000 finishing it. 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:54.159 So I'm gonna take this call. Yeah, you know. 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:58.240 It's one of the things where, yeah, just starting to 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.639