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Speaker 1: The guys from paying They've kind of showed me how

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Speaker 1: much the equipment matters. I just love that I can

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Speaker 1: hit any shot I kind of want.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about

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Speaker 2: what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Pinging proven Grounds Podcast. I'm Shane Bacon.

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Speaker 3: That is Marty Jerts and Marty I say this a lot.

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Speaker 3: We've got a special guest today, a very exciting guest

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Speaker 3: at that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a fun one. This is one I

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Speaker 2: think all golfers out there have been have been touched

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Speaker 2: by his what he's brought to this game and in

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Speaker 2: one way or another.

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Speaker 1: Chris Como, Hey guys, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 3: Chris, How how did you get into instruction? When did

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Speaker 3: when did that interest hit you? When did you see

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Speaker 3: that as an avenue in your world?

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Speaker 1: I think kind of like really early on. I took

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Speaker 1: up golf somewhat late, like when I was like sixteen,

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Speaker 1: and I've always loved sports, and and you know, I

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Speaker 1: got pretty good at golf pretty quickly. But I I

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Speaker 1: sort of I had this idea in my head that

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Speaker 1: if I could like study everything, read all the books

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Speaker 1: or whatever. I could expedite the process of getting better

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Speaker 1: at golf just by like learning as much as possible,

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Speaker 1: because I got completely just like obsessed with the game.

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Speaker 1: You know, once I started playing that was misguided, right,

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Speaker 1: like the pathway the game really good at golf. It's

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Speaker 1: not like reading every golf book that there is, but that, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, really started me down this path of just

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Speaker 1: being like so intrigued by the game and how do

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Speaker 1: you get better at it? I mean, like and just

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Speaker 1: the fact that there's like so many different opinions. I

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Speaker 1: mean I remember reading books on you know, a guy

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Speaker 1: who's the number one coaching golf and the number two

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Speaker 1: coaching golf and the number three coaching golf, and they

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Speaker 1: had like wildly different opinions, and it's like whoa, like

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Speaker 1: what gives? So it just really triggered this curiosity about

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Speaker 1: the game and just the overall mystery of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: how can you hit this incredible shot in one moment

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Speaker 1: and then the next moment you're like, you know, chasing

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Speaker 1: a ball into the woods or it goes out of

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Speaker 1: bounds or whatever. I think there's just a lot of

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Speaker 1: like kind of mysteries to the game. In some ways

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Speaker 1: it's a big puzzle, and early on that grabbed me.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, the natural segue from sort of

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Speaker 1: the curiosity of the game and how to get better

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Speaker 1: at it is is then how do you help other

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Speaker 1: people get better at it? And that's kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: really early on, I start down that pathway of coaching essentially, Chris.

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Speaker 2: I think that's what we love about having you as

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Speaker 2: an ambassador is how curious you are, how you've asked

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Speaker 2: us to in the research end to help answer some

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Speaker 2: very deep questions. Do you feel like you have Do

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Speaker 2: you feel like you've had all these questions in your

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Speaker 2: head and a bunch of them are answered and you're

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Speaker 2: getting closer to the end or do you feel like

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Speaker 2: as you've answered some of these questions it's opened more

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Speaker 2: doors to more than ever Where are you out on

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Speaker 2: that kind of spectrum?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you definitely start to make progress, and

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Speaker 1: I think you know you have more and more like

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna, if you will, kind of like understood a

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Speaker 1: little bit better. And then you know, as a teacher,

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Speaker 1: you get more tools and your tool set type of thing.

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Speaker 1: But you probably, like most things, as you start to

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Speaker 1: open it up and ask the questions. You know, more

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Speaker 1: questions arise and and you you know, finally sort of

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Speaker 1: concede that this is going to be a never ending thing.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you'll be whatever years old and you'll

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Speaker 1: be like, oh, you know, that was a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: But here's sort of like the next set of questions

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Speaker 1: for the next generation to kind of play with and

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Speaker 1: make their own progress with. So it's probably like anything

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Speaker 1: else you do with you know, what you can with

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Speaker 1: the time you have in it, and it is sort

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Speaker 1: of this never ending thing, which is is also part

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Speaker 1: of the fun and challenge of it all.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, Chris, I mean the doors in golf open

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Speaker 3: and close as well for players, right, I mean you

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Speaker 3: you evolve and you get better, and you work on things,

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Speaker 3: and maybe a part of your game deterior rates and

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Speaker 3: you're trying to work on that. I can only imagine

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Speaker 3: in the world of instruction, you're always ahead because you've

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Speaker 3: got to kind of stay ahead of the golfers. I mean,

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Speaker 3: you think about the way we launched drivers versus the

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Speaker 3: way players in the late nineties and early two thousands

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Speaker 3: hit their drivers, right, it's completely different. I mean, you

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Speaker 3: go watch John Daly in ninety two ninety three pound

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Speaker 3: is driver and that ball is coming out low and

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Speaker 3: spending and now obviously the way Rory launches it, it

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Speaker 3: is starting out way up in the air, right off

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Speaker 3: the face. How if you, I mean, for lack of

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Speaker 3: a better term, how ahead of the golf curve are

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Speaker 3: you in terms of paying attention to new technology and

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Speaker 3: new thoughts? How hungry do you have to stay to

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Speaker 3: be where you're at right now in the world of instruction?

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Speaker 1: I mean I think, I mean, you're trying to help

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Speaker 1: people get better, right and then like say, you know,

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Speaker 1: on the PGA Tour or whatever, I mean it is

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Speaker 1: the PGA tournament is in essence a zero sum game.

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Speaker 1: It's like if if someone plays better, then other guy

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Speaker 1: is going to make less money, right, So, like there

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Speaker 1: is that element of it. So there is is trying

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Speaker 1: to find like edges for the guys that you're working with.

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Speaker 1: So there is that sort of zero sum game kind

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Speaker 1: of like competitive mindset that does exist of helping a

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Speaker 1: guy find an edge, and those edges you know, again

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Speaker 1: it's it's probably this never ending thing and the edges

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Speaker 1: get smaller that you're trying to push and you know,

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Speaker 1: as equipment changes, you know, the whole set of variables

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Speaker 1: that you're trying to find edges with change. You know,

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Speaker 1: if all of a sudden they do a ball roll

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Speaker 1: back or whatever it is, it's essentially changed the rules

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Speaker 1: of the game. So and all of a sudden you've

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Speaker 1: got to have to find edges within that new new

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Speaker 1: rule set sort of speak, right, But then there's also

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Speaker 1: like the macro of it, where you're just trying to

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Speaker 1: like help the game grow. You're like, you know, you're

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Speaker 1: trying to grow the GDP of golf and golf instruction

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Speaker 1: and help people enjoy the game. And that's not zero sum, right,

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Speaker 1: That's where you can help other people be better too,

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Speaker 1: and that part's fun as well. So for me, it's

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Speaker 1: always kind of that dance between those two worlds of

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Speaker 1: trying to find the edge in a very competitive sense,

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Speaker 1: and there's also trying to make you know, impact act

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Speaker 1: or progress that can help like everybody in the golf industry.

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Speaker 1: So I think you're trying to do both at the

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Speaker 1: same time at some capacity, But uh yeah, I don't know. Again,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't it doesn't ever end, right, It's just the

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Speaker 1: variables are changing, the rules are changing. So you're always

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Speaker 1: you're always finding I don't know if it's ahead of

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Speaker 1: the curve, it's it's the landscape's changing enough that if

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Speaker 1: you are going to find edges, you know you got

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Speaker 1: to you got to sort of keep looking. And for me,

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Speaker 1: the hunger part, like curiosity has always been like a

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Speaker 1: pretty strong driving force for me. So as long as

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Speaker 1: there's questions that's like I don't know the answer to,

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Speaker 1: or there's there's things where it's like, oh, that's interesting,

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen that before. I think that sort of

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Speaker 1: natural hunger that comes from that curiosity will will probably

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Speaker 1: always be there.

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Speaker 2: Chris, you touched on some of it. I have my

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Speaker 2: own hypothesis on why you've taken this approach, but I've

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Speaker 2: always wanted to ask you this question you talked about

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Speaker 2: in terms of helping the golf community, other golf instructors

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Speaker 2: get better, That's kind of why I let off with

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Speaker 2: You've you've you've touched a lot of players, whether they

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Speaker 2: know it or not, but you've taken this approach to

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Speaker 2: be very open with sharing your questions, your ideas, crowdsourcing,

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Speaker 2: getting answers to those questions to the other best golf

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Speaker 2: instructors in the world where I I would think that,

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Speaker 2: you know, other great teachers might keep some things like

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Speaker 2: trade secret or close to their chest on their findings

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Speaker 2: or what they're trying to research. Why have you taken

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Speaker 2: that approach? What's been the inspiration story behind this approach

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Speaker 2: to be a little bit more open with asking these

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Speaker 2: questions and these these deep scientific or biomechanical questions that

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Speaker 2: you've done over the over the last decade or so.

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Speaker 1: That's an interesting question. Huh. I'm not sure if I

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Speaker 1: fully know the answer to that. I would say I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I think I genuinely like like just sharing

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Speaker 1: and seeing industry grow. I mean, I again, I didn't

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Speaker 1: grow up playing golf, and no one my fans played golf,

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Speaker 1: you know, golf expensive, and I didn't grow you know,

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Speaker 1: I had whatever, Like, I didn't grew up in like

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Speaker 1: a very sort of like affluent environment or anything. And

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Speaker 1: golf has like provided so many incredible things for me.

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Speaker 1: So there is an element of like just an appreciation

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Speaker 1: for the game. So if I can like impact and

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Speaker 1: give to it, that's that's awesome. Like I love that

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Speaker 1: I have an appreciation for teachers, like the teaching industry.

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Speaker 1: I know it's a tough gig, right, Like I've I've

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Speaker 1: done it in so many different versions teaching at driving rangeery.

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Speaker 1: You can barely pay your bills or whatever. So I

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Speaker 1: just have a strong sort of like appreciation affinity for

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Speaker 1: people in the business. So there is just a genuine

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Speaker 1: sort of like I like kind of like sharing it.

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Speaker 1: I like the dialogue. I feel like having it be

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Speaker 1: more open sourced allows more people to think about it.

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Speaker 1: So I think there's you know, a higher acceleration at

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Speaker 1: my own learning because it's like, yeah, you can ask

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Speaker 1: like a question or give an insight to something. But

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Speaker 1: the bigger the population of people who are like maybe

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Speaker 1: talking about something, They're gonna have their own ideas, which

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Speaker 1: is going to have its own sort of like you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of like you know, loop to it to where

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get better with it. So there's that

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Speaker 1: like you have these different aspects of you as like

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Speaker 1: a human, right, I'm very curious. There's like a part

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Speaker 1: of me that likes to like share with the community,

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Speaker 1: but then there's also part of me that's competitive and wants,

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Speaker 1: like my guess to play really well. So how do

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Speaker 1: you like, how do you have all those things be

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Speaker 1: true at the same time and like get the most

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Speaker 1: out of it. I think I'd at least like to think,

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Speaker 1: maybe this is a little cocky, but I'd like to

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Speaker 1: think that part of my edge in the competitive sense

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Speaker 1: is the way I kind of put it all together

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Speaker 1: and the problem solving aspect of it. So I don't

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Speaker 1: look at this and like here's some rote knowledge and

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Speaker 1: now you know it, and now all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: it's like easy. Like you still got to like figure

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Speaker 1: out how to put the puzzle together. How do you

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Speaker 1: take an individual in front of you who's got their

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Speaker 1: own crazinesses or golf swing, the way their mind works,

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Speaker 1: the way their emotions process things, And then you got

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Speaker 1: to like put in maybe some sort of understanding of

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, golf swing technique, groundwraction, whatever the thing

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Speaker 1: is you know you're factoring in, and then take this puzzle,

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Speaker 1: put it together and help a guy play better with it.

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Speaker 1: That's its own thing that one. Even if I wanted

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Speaker 1: to like try to like teach it to someone else,

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Speaker 1: like it's kind of impossible to do. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: I feel like my real edge is the problem solving

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Speaker 1: aspect of it, and putting it all together. So in

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Speaker 1: some ways, I'm not really worried about, you know, giving

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Speaker 1: that away. I guess, now someone else might be have

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Speaker 1: their own way that fits another person better or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is, and you know, so they could be better with,

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Speaker 1: you know, whatever set of people. But the way I

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Speaker 1: put together is in a sense, my monopoly of that

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Speaker 1: good or bad, like it or not like it. It's

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Speaker 1: it's sort of mine. So I'm not really worried about,

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Speaker 1: you know, competition that in that way.

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Speaker 3: I guess, Chris, what was your I made it moment?

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, we all have had it in

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Speaker 3: this world. You're talking about teaching lessons at a driving

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Speaker 3: range and you know, barely getting by. When did you

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Speaker 3: have the moment where you went, oh, my goodness, X

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Speaker 3: paid attention to me, or somebody called me, or you know,

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Speaker 3: somebody wants my opinion on this? Did you have one

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Speaker 3: of those? That comes to mind?

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Speaker 1: So when I graduated undergrad I was at this like

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been in the golf business unless I

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Speaker 1: was teaching, Like that's the only thing I had interest

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Speaker 1: in doing in the golf missess, I would have done

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Speaker 1: something else. And I I felt like in part because,

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Speaker 1: like how I said earlier, there was so many different

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Speaker 1: opinions on which you have in the golf swing. It's

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Speaker 1: like I've already talked to too, you know, physicists and

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Speaker 1: be like, if I let go of my phone, what's

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Speaker 1: going to happen? They're all going to say, well, it's

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Speaker 1: going to go to the ground because you know, Newtonian

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Speaker 1: physics is sort of understood right. So to me that

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Speaker 1: there were such different opinions, I'm like, there's a gap

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Speaker 1: in the body knowledge at some level. And and you know,

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Speaker 1: I felt like that was an opportunity and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go out there and really try to

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Speaker 1: be like good at this. I'm gonna try to be

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Speaker 1: the best at this. And that's what kind of like

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Speaker 1: set me off on the whole golf coaching path. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I went and traveled the country. I worked

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Speaker 1: led for a little bit, worked for Haney for a

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Speaker 1: little bit, spent a couple of years, uh, you know

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Speaker 1: with maclgrady kind of hanging out with him, did all

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Speaker 1: all the certifications like TPI, Paul Czeck, YadA, YadA, YadA,

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Speaker 1: and I ended up in Dallas to do an academy,

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Speaker 1: and the first year at this academy, I was working

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Speaker 1: like sixty seven hours a week and I made nineteen

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars at this academy. I mean they made no money.

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Speaker 1: Like you know, it was I was eating into savings whatever, right,

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Speaker 1: And it was such a what's the right way to

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Speaker 1: say this, it was it was. It was not pleasant.

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Speaker 1: It was it was I don't know if you guys

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Speaker 1: can cents this, but it was a kick and it

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Speaker 1: was just a kick in the butt where you're just like, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Just a it's a total grind, I mean just grinding,

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Speaker 3: grind and grind, and it.

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Speaker 1: Was one of those things. I had some friends who

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Speaker 1: had gone to law school. Yeah, and I'm making no

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Speaker 1: money and I'm like, man, this was a bad decision.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't because my heart was still like so

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Speaker 1: into it, right. So I ended up. Long story short

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Speaker 1: of Marty probably knows this, I end up. I had

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Speaker 1: joined a free poker league. Had done on that free

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Speaker 1: poker league, which the one player of the year they

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Speaker 1: fled to Vegas to play in a tournament. Came and forth.

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Speaker 1: In this tournament, the Bolagio win forty grand one night,

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Speaker 1: which doubled my year salary, take that money, break away

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Speaker 1: at a driving range, and basically start to build like

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Speaker 1: a golf book. But I was also playing poker at

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Speaker 1: night in like the Dallas underground poker scene for a

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Speaker 1: few years. So I'm like funding my golf passion instruction

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Speaker 1: through playing poker at night, which is so ridiculous in hindsight.

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Speaker 1: Start to really through a couple of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: the right people playing well. There was a guy named

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Speaker 1: Mike Madonna who used to play for the Dallas Stars.

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Speaker 1: He'd start playing some good golf to help generate some

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Speaker 1: like business. Scott Foster, the Guy of a Decade, actually

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Speaker 1: met him in a poker room. He got a partial

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Speaker 1: status on the web dot com tour. I was helping him,

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Speaker 1: had some really good juniors, and then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: I start building a book and they wake up one

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Speaker 1: day and I'm like, actually like making a living teaching golf.

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Speaker 1: But it was my own book too. It was like autonomous, right,

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Speaker 1: wasn't at an academy. It was like my business. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't where I could get fired the next day. It

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Speaker 1: was like if I had left that driver range, the

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Speaker 1: people would go to me. Someplace else. So it was

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Speaker 1: like a true sort of like autonomous. I built like

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Speaker 1: a business teaching golf where I can pay my bills.

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Speaker 1: And this was this was before I went to grad

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Speaker 1: school for biomechanics. This was before I started teaching like

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Speaker 1: tour guys. But it was like a place where it's

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Speaker 1: like I actually can like do this and make a

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Speaker 1: living doing it, like a decent living. I was actually

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Speaker 1: started to get really busy and was able to make

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Speaker 1: kind of like a nice living. And that that's when

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Speaker 1: I felt like, Okay, I made it, because you know,

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Speaker 1: I was actually able to eat from teaching golf.

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Speaker 2: So Shane N's in a little bit of a connection

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Speaker 2: here to Victor playing playing Poker two and talking about

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Speaker 2: you know, trying to get those little edges and making

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Speaker 2: those little bets. Right. I think that's pretty interesting, Chris.

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Speaker 2: What about let's let's talk about what happened next there?

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Speaker 2: And like, I think, you know, you've a lot of

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Speaker 2: the academic I think been sort of like the best

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Speaker 2: applied scientists or applied problem solver taking some very academic principles,

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Speaker 2: and then as you stated yourself, you know, you think

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Speaker 2: your expertise is how you glue it together and apply

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Speaker 2: it holistically to your players. So tell us about that journey,

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Speaker 2: some of the things you've done. I mean, you've written

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Speaker 2: a couple of papers in the Journal of Sports bio Biomechanics.

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Speaker 2: How how did you get into that and how important

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Speaker 2: has that been for you in your skill set? Is

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Speaker 2: a foundation, is a is an instructor?

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Speaker 1: So so yeah, so I you know, done all that.

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Speaker 1: Where I'd worked for different guys was teaching, had built

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Speaker 1: like a nice teaching business. And at this point I'm

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Speaker 1: now at a country club called Glen Eagles, and I'm

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Speaker 1: like grinding on the range, teaching all day. In some ways,

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Speaker 1: I think I was always like running away from you know,

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Speaker 1: like that it wouldn't work. So you know, if someone

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Speaker 1: wanted a lesson, if it was at sixth in the

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Speaker 1: morning or night, like they're getting a lesson, and I

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Speaker 1: was out there all day like just grinding, right, and

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Speaker 1: which is awesome. It was such a fun window. A

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Speaker 1: friend of mine, his name is Chris Robinson. I've lost

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Speaker 1: touch with them. I don't know where he is. Chris Robinson,

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Speaker 1: here's this. Hit me up, curious about what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: So he was doing his PhD at TWU and he's like,

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Speaker 1: there's this really cool biomechanicslibe. You got to come check out.

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Speaker 1: So I go to this lab and you know, they

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Speaker 1: had the VITE I didn't even there was just the

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Speaker 1: fancy cameras that you see like in like you know,

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Speaker 1: video games or whatever is they're Vicom three D motion cameras.

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Speaker 1: They had this crazy lab and there was this professor

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Speaker 1: there named doctor Kuan. So I go to doctor Kwan

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, and they weren't doing any golf research

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Speaker 1: at the point. I'm like, do you have any interest

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Speaker 1: in studying golf? He's like, yeah, bring me golfers. So

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Speaker 1: I start bringing my students, different people from the club.

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Speaker 1: We start collecting a bunch of data and just me

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Speaker 1: being curious, I started asking them all these questions and

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Speaker 1: he's like, why don't you just take my undergraduate Bao

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Speaker 1: mechanics class. So I take the class and I like

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Speaker 1: loved it. And there was like so many little things

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Speaker 1: where I was like, oh, that makes sense why I

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Speaker 1: see this in a swing or that, or starting to

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Speaker 1: understand better the constraints of the human body, and I

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Speaker 1: just I felt like I had this like flooding of

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Speaker 1: like insights of things that I had seen in teaching

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Speaker 1: or other teachers, things that I had learned, and it

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Speaker 1: just kind of like gave it a framework and sort

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Speaker 1: of the context for those things to make more sense

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Speaker 1: to me. Like this is really cool. So I take

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Speaker 1: the class, did one in the class in Kwan's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you got an aptitude for this, you should do like

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Speaker 1: the graduate program. So anyway, do some other stuff to

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Speaker 1: kind of like prerex sits and YadA, YadA YadA. I

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Speaker 1: end up in his graduate program and to do a

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Speaker 1: master's game bo mechanics, and I remember the first semester.

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Speaker 1: The first class was like just like a mechanics class

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Speaker 1: and it was all like form. Kwan's this amazing professor.

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Speaker 1: He's very much like a math first type of professor.

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Speaker 1: And I sitting there and I'm like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I get myself into it. I remember going to him.

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Speaker 1: I was like it was like a month in the

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Speaker 1: class on like a golf pro Like I don't know

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Speaker 1: what I'm doing, and he's like he gave me this

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Speaker 1: like pep talk sort of. He was like he was

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Speaker 1: like there's this proverb where like Koreean general if the

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Speaker 1: army is like facing which feels like an insurmountable foe

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Speaker 1: that the general will back the army up against the

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Speaker 1: body of water so they have no place to run.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you're basically calling me a whats aren't you.

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Speaker 1: He's like, guess, So I stuck it out. That first

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Speaker 1: class was actually the hardest, and then and then we

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Speaker 1: went to it like on a nice flow. I was

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Speaker 1: taking the coursework, I was working during the day. We

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Speaker 1: were collecting data on golfers, like you mentioned, we published

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Speaker 1: a couple of papers that were really cool. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'd eventually completed all the coursework for masterstream and bio Mechanics,

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Speaker 1: so I've done everything except for I have like a

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Speaker 1: ten page thesis or something to write. But that's when

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Speaker 1: Tiger Woods called me. Was like, right when I was

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Speaker 1: finishing it.

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Speaker 3: So I'm gonna take this call. Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the things where, yeah, just starting to

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Speaker 1: get on the technology, looking at three D data, looking

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Speaker 1: at force plate data, and then having what I felt like.

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Speaker 1: I felt like because I had all those years of teaching,

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Speaker 1: which was a decade at this point of teaching at least,

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Speaker 1: and then going to grad school and then kind of

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Speaker 1: like connecting the dots just I don't know. It's just

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Speaker 1: a very really cool like window of time where I

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Speaker 1: felt like I was getting all these like aha moments

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Speaker 1: because of that context. I don't think I would have

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Speaker 1: had that if it was just like sort of the

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Speaker 1: degree first type of thing. So it's really like, you know,

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Speaker 1: fortunate in that way, and you know it. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to say. I actually think in terms of teaching,

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Speaker 1: the best window for me have developed, like might say

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Speaker 1: a set of teaching seal would be when I was

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Speaker 1: teaching on the range and you like, you know, you

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Speaker 1: you only again pay your bills if you help people

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Speaker 1: get better, So it forces you into a very sort

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Speaker 1: of like pragmatic approach to teaching. No like you've got

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Speaker 1: to be here or this position or whatever that you

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Speaker 1: can get away with if you maybe had like a

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Speaker 1: marketing machine or brand, because people are going to come

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Speaker 1: to you per that. Like I was kind of this

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Speaker 1: unknown person at a driving range that they're not going

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Speaker 1: to come to you unless their friend said, hey, I

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Speaker 1: hit it a lot better type of thing, right. That

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Speaker 1: was the place where I really I feel like cut

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Speaker 1: my teeth, just like in terms of actual teaching. But

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Speaker 1: then post that the research side of it, again, it

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Speaker 1: becomes this like small edge that I think amplified that

431
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 1: previous experience, you know, like anything else, I think over time,

432
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,879
Speaker 1: as you get maybe better, more proficient at something, it

433
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 1: becomes harder and harder to find those like edges. But

434
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,640
Speaker 1: the more academic side of it, blended with the previous experience,

435
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 1: for me was just like just tons of aha moments,

436
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,239
Speaker 1: and I just I think it just helped me kind

437
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 1: of take it to, you know, a bit of a

438
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 1: higher level.

439
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 3: So, Chris, you mentioned work in a bit with mac Ogrady.

440
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 3: I feel like there's two names in golf that when

441
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 3: when people hear it, their kind of ears perk up

442
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 3: in terms of forst it's Maco Grady and Anthony Kim,

443
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 3: especially modern day Anthony Kim, Like where is he? What's

444
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 3: he doing? How was it with mac Ogrady, Because again,

445
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not sure you can just I'm not

446
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 3: gonna let you just pass over the fact that you

447
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,439
Speaker 3: worked a little bit with mac over the years. So

448
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 3: how was it like picking his brain listen to him?

449
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 3: How did you find him? I mean, how did that

450
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 3: whole thing go down?

451
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,120
Speaker 1: So I found him? He was playing a US Open

452
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,119
Speaker 1: qualifier elk Cab and I watched him play if he

453
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 1: played lefty, al righting, he's playing righting, Okay. I watched

454
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 1: him play, and then I like cornered him in the

455
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 1: parking lot and started to ask him, like, you know,

456
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,640
Speaker 1: just struck up conversation. We sat out there for at

457
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 1: least two hours. It was. It went from like, you know, whatever,

458
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 1: hey and big fan, like really love like you know,

459
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 1: the golf swing stuff, whatever, to this long conversation he recommended.

460
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 1: I was like, what are some books you recommend? He

461
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 1: recommended me five books. None of them were golf books.

462
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 1: They're all just like philosophy of science and like Adamy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

463
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,640
Speaker 1: It was great. He gave me his number. I called

464
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 1: him for years, he never responded, and then I found

465
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: this email somewhere online, sent an email, responded to that,

466
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 1: and then I started doing the schools with them. It

467
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 1: was great. I mean it was great, like, uh, you know,

468
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 1: I was I think I was smart enough. For the

469
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: first year. I didn't ask too many questions. I just listened.

470
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 1: And then after the first year, you know, I like

471
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 1: asking tough, challenging questions, and you know, anyway, different people

472
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: respond to to tough questions differently, right, And that's where

473
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 1: I feel like, uh, for me at least, you know

474
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 1: guys like Kwan or Sasha McKenzie or you know Mike Duffy,

475
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 1: or you know, like a guy like Mark Brody and

476
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: Chris Brody who was over at Ping. There becomes this

477
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 1: discourse where it's like the heart of the question, the better,

478
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 1: Like I personally, I want people to challenge me, like

479
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: I want to be asked the tough questions because I

480
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: get better from that. So that's in general the environments

481
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: I like to put myself in because those are the

482
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 1: ones where I think, you know, it really can kind

483
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 1: of like sharpen thought and help people advance. But anyway,

484
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: how is his swing? His swing is so good, like

485
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's it's beautiful, right, I don't

486
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: I don't know enough about like his PGH career and

487
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 1: how much like how good of an actual ball striker is.

488
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: And this is not sort of to saying to Mac,

489
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: but but in general, I think sometimes like when people

490
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: hit shots where they take a big divid the ball

491
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 1: kind of comes out and it sounds really good. People

492
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: get sort of like enamored and it kind of gets

493
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: romanticized a little bit, but like Jack Nicholas, like he

494
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 1: picked it and like people don't really rave about him

495
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: as a ball striker, but from a practical sense, that's

496
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: like probably the best ball striker of all time, right,

497
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: So I think it's I think people got to be

498
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 1: a little bit careful not to romanticize things because of

499
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 1: the look at it of it. But it's like, you know,

500
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 1: how does it actually practically hold up in the conditions

501
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: that you're trying to play in. You know, if you're

502
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: trying to win majors, hitting it really high to hold

503
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 1: on fast screens can be pretty helpful. So again, I'm

504
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: super appreciative of the time like spent with him, you know,

505
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 1: so it was great. It was a great window.

506
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 2: Chris uh kind of springboarding on that a little bit

507
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 2: and maybe maybe making it putting all this that we've

508
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 2: talked about in context for the listener. You know, the

509
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 2: biomechanics stuff might sound a little out there for some

510
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: folks or maybe you know, not tangible how it can

511
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: help their game. I think one of the big things

512
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 2: you and I still remember that video you and Sasho

513
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 2: did and put out on YouTube maybe six eight ten

514
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 2: years ago somewhere in that neighborhood or you guys are

515
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 2: talking about the three D flat spot, right, and you

516
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 2: were the first one, I think to kind of come

517
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 2: to us, sashow others yourself personally and try to figure

518
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 2: out what is this concept all about? Explore this concept

519
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 2: for the listener out there that may have never heard

520
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: of this concept. Can you just kind of tell the

521
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 2: story of that, like, you know, how did you get

522
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 2: interested in this, and how does it impact your teaching today?

523
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: What is it?

524
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 2: What can players do to maybe try to get a

525
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 2: little more flat ish spot maybe not flat as we know,

526
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 2: but and just kind of tell us that story a

527
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 2: little bit.

528
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: Okay, this, I mean this can be a bit of

529
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: a rabbit hole, Yes, can come out. So you know

530
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: this is like has to be thirteen plus years ago. Now. Yeah.

531
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: There's like an air Quotes rate of closure debate on

532
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: one of the forums, and you know, there was some

533
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: people in the academic world that was saying, like rate

534
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: of closure has nothing to do with like it has

535
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: no correlation with like handicap whatever. And I think this

536
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: is where it was a little bit helpful to have

537
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: some of like the boom mechanics background some of the courses,

538
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, I think here's the problem

539
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: is that golf coach has an intuition and they're asking

540
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: a question, but they were using the language. They were

541
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: using it sort of a different language than than like

542
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: say the PhDs, or they're using words differently than how

543
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 1: the like a PhD would interpret those same words, and

544
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 1: there became fundamentally like a miscommunication between the two worlds.

545
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: And so rate of closure at that point was being

546
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: measured as you know, anger velocity per second, like at impact,

547
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: so like sort of like an instants anger velocity. But

548
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: the golf coaches they're looking at a camera and they're

549
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: slowing it down and they're seeing the face look a

550
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: certain way coming into the ball, and they're saying that

551
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: looks like that has a lower rate of closure. And

552
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: when they say rate of closure, that's essentially what they

553
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 1: were getting at. But by the PhD sort of language,

554
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: that's not what RATEI closure would be. So in my

555
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 1: mind I came up, I'm like, well, what the golf

556
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: pro is really asking is what is the change in

557
00:26:53,880 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 1: the face rotationally per how it changes in space, like

558
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: how its movement is in space. So I came up

559
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 1: with this measurement of closure per displacement, so instead of

560
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: closure per time, closure per how much it's moving linear

561
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: in space. And then and then it came to me

562
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: it was like, well, if you were to do that

563
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: with the face, would you do that with the loft?

564
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: Would you do that with the club path? Would you

565
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: do that with the angle attack? So now all of

566
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: a sudden it became could you take these variables that

567
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: we know make the ball do what it does and

568
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: say what is the change in the path per displacement?

569
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: What is the change in the angle attack per displacement?

570
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: Was the change of the face per displacement, the change

571
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: of the loft per displacement? And again people sometimes mistake

572
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 1: flat spot is being flat to the ground. It's not that.

573
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,959
Speaker 1: It's just saying what is the change of it? If

574
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: you had less of a change in the path, you

575
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: would have more of a straighter direction of it in

576
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: some direction, so it have it would be less of

577
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: an arc inissense, so that straightness could be you know,

578
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: five degrees down, it could be five degrees up. It

579
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: could be five degrees to the right of the target,

580
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: It could be five degrees to left the target. It

581
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with being flat to the ground,

582
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: which is saying is there less change in that path

583
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: and that angle attack and again in the face in

584
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: the loft during an interval, Because the whole idea is,

585
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: you know, is there a window of space where impact

586
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 1: could happen and is there less change of those club

587
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: three D club had variables during that spatial interval, and

588
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: if there is, does that have somewhat of a relationship

589
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: to the overall shot distribution to person hits. So the

590
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: idea would be, you know, this is one of the

591
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: great sort of mysteries in golf. To me, it's like,

592
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,479
Speaker 1: and I think to everybody, and I kind of had

593
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: alluded to before, Like there's plenty of five handicaps, ten handicaps.

594
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: You know, somewhere in the world, there's an eighteen handicap

595
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: that today will probably hit a hole in one. Right,

596
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: So a lot of golfers hit really great shots, like

597
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: maybe like the best shot possible, and that whole would

598
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: be a whole in one, right, So if they could

599
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 1: do that over and over again, they'd be the best

600
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: golf forever. Right, always hit holes of ones, but for

601
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: some reason, like we also hit these like weird shots, right, Like,

602
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: at least I do. And if you're not like a

603
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: toy guy, you hit weird shots, right? Where did that

604
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: come from? And I think a lot of like the

605
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: instructional like philosophies or frameworks have been an argument to

606
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: how does the golfer be more consistent? You know, keep

607
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: your head still, make your left arm across your test,

608
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: how do you be more consistent? And that seems to

609
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: make sense if I want the ball to be consistent,

610
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: wy don't I be consistent? But then you get like,

611
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: you know, I remember watching Trevino hit balls and he's

612
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: like moving around and talking, and I mean he's freaking

613
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: not consistent, and the ball's just every time poof, you know,

614
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: And then you get you know, I'm sure we've all

615
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: seen its someone who's got like the alignment sticks out

616
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: and everything's perfect and like all the checklists and then

617
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: the ball is going lept everywhere. Right, It's like they're

618
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: really consistent. And if you were to look at their swing,

619
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: like I think, imagine your friend, you know, whoever it is,

620
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: fifty yards away, you watch them, so you know it's him.

621
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: Like people's swings are actually kind of consistent, right, So

622
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: It's like, what makes certain swings have ball flight distributions

623
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: be consistent more so than other ones? And I don't

624
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: think the answer is just like you got to be

625
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: more consistent. And again, like these things have come through

626
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: like keep your head still, get put your left arm

627
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: here or there or whatever it is. And it's like,

628
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: well it's a hypothesis, let's test it. You know, rock

629
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: Commedia moves off the ball, Bunch flushed it, Tiger Woods,

630
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: Curtis Strange, they had like movement. And these guys were

631
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: all very straight hitters. So the argument of this three

632
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: flat spot stuff is, is there certain things that are

633
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: contained in in you know whatever techniques that essentially make

634
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: the ball flight less sensitive to human error And human

635
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: air could be you know, you slide on a little

636
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: bit more or whatever it is. Or it could be

637
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: environmental stuff too, right, or I should just say air,

638
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: not human air, but just air which could also be environmental.

639
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: Could be like a downhill lie a side, he'll lie,

640
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: it's inudivid whatever it is. All these different sort of

641
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: like inherent variables that are existing around the golf. Are

642
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: there certain techniques that fundamentally make it easier to have

643
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: the contact you want and that shot flight, the ball

644
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: flight distribution you want because of that technique. So that's

645
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: sort of like the question. And then those are the

646
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: variables that we were starting to look at. And this

647
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: is where like technology like focal as well as you know,

648
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: you guys being kind enough to start to like write

649
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: in the code to like really look at this matter,

650
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: is giving us the opportunity to start to like, you know,

651
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: potentially answer this question. You know, is there correlations between

652
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: guys who drive it really well are very good iron

653
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: players and this variable that is its own continuum, right,

654
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: like two people, two tour guys could have slightly different

655
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: changes in path or angle, attack or face whatever it is.

656
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: It's not like a binary thing. So it's got its

657
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: own continuum to it. And does that have some relationship

658
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: to you know, their ball striking ability? And then there's

659
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: obviously going to be other variables that can are going

660
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: to play a role, like you know, a person's emotional

661
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: state and mindset and you know who knows. But but

662
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: to me, that air quotesess consistency question or that repeatability question,

663
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: I think is you know the biggest, really the biggest

664
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: question in golf that determines like differences in skill set,

665
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: because again there's plenty of whatever ten handicappers with enough

666
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: club at speed that can hit a drive that looks

667
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: like a tour player. But then you know, a couple

668
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: drives later, they're they're their balls like hitting a house.

669
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: So you know that, that to me is one of

670
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: the phenomenas in the mysteries of the game. That's that's

671
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: fun to try to figure out.

672
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: Chris, you did an awesome job connecting. You know. I

673
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: think the listener out there might be like, hey, biomechanics,

674
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 2: you know, what is that, what's that going to do

675
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: for me? I think that you kind of hit on,

676
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 2: like that's kind of the holy grail. You're trying to find,

677
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 2: right of that like consistency aspect which will help the

678
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: every day golfer. And you've seen it. The Travino story

679
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 2: is perfect one, right, you know, I think the golf

680
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: prosol observed that in one way or the other. It's like,

681
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: how do you get to the actual you know, mechanics

682
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: of how you can teach that and influence it in

683
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: a practical sense, right.

684
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I mean that at the end of

685
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: the day, it's like, you know, I think people miss

686
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: it for at least me. I'm like, I'm so pragmatic

687
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: with things, and I was a teacher first before I

688
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: went down this path. But all these are to mirror

689
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: tools to answer very practical questions, like at the end

690
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: of the day, that's my end game is how do

691
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: you just like figure out how to get better at

692
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: the game. So I do think people can kind of like, oh,

693
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: by my things, it's like yeah, and of itself whatever,

694
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: But these are tools to answer what I think are

695
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: really meaningful questions that you know. Again, this is part

696
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: of the things that grabbed me about this game is

697
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 1: that there is like phenomena, there's really interesting things that

698
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: happened that aren't fully understood.

699
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

700
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: Again, it's like, how do you have guys, I mean,

701
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: there's like whatever, like say Michael Jordan or some world

702
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: class athlete that clearly has got you know, out of

703
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 1: this world hand eye coronation a great athlete and their

704
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: good shots are unbelievable, but they do not have that

705
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 1: sort of repeatability as a tour player does. It's probably

706
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: not a function of their coronation because they're great athletes, right,

707
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: So it's like, what are some of the other reasons

708
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 1: to explain what is sort of a phenomenon of golf

709
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 1: is like why can you hit a great shot and

710
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: then you know a minute later it just hit a

711
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: shot that's like, you know, not that great Chris.

712
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 3: The Trevino story was so interesting to me because I

713
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 3: remember talking to Brad Faxon about putting and he would

714
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 3: say that a big part of his great putting was

715
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 3: he was a try to leave shots in certain areas

716
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 3: where he would have the easiest putt. And then there

717
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 3: were times, you know, you think about a great player,

718
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 3: a great putter someone I mean you mentioned you know,

719
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 3: like a Justin Rose right, who's on the range. He's

720
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 3: got all these systems going, and he's got alignment rods

721
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 3: and he's got the ball and all those types of

722
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: things to make sure the swing is perfectly online. And

723
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 3: then you got somebody like Lee Trevino who's out there

724
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 3: making all sorts of different golf swings and he's considered

725
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 3: one of the great ball strikers of our generation. I

726
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 3: was listening to Steph Curry on a podcast a couple

727
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 3: of weeks ago, and they said, Steph, what are you

728
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 3: focused on when you're shooting? And he said, my entire

729
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 3: focus now is just balance. If I'm balanced when I'm

730
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 3: set to shoot, I feel like I'm going to make

731
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 3: the shot. And you know, you watch Steph play basketball,

732
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 3: there's a lot of shots where he's fading away, or

733
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 3: he's stepping back, or he's shooting a one leged kind

734
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 3: of floater in the lane and they all go in right.

735
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 3: So for him, the focus is on balance. In your opinion,

736
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 3: what is that constant from a Fax and putting to

737
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 3: a Travino ball striking, to Tiger to Steph Curry shooting

738
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 3: that they all do well even though they're all kind

739
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 3: of juggling the ball.

740
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: This is why I think golf is for a of unique.

741
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,280
Speaker 1: So I think, like all the stuff of like having

742
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: the target and balance and all that like that that

743
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: maybe like a stuff with shooting is important, and that's

744
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: probably important through all sports. And you know, like I

745
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: think putting maybe a little bit different, but I think

746
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 1: when it comes to like ball striking, all that stuff matters.

747
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: But I do think there's another variable, and this is

748
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: like say some of the flat spot stuff that I

749
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: do think is going to have my bat. My prediction

750
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: is gonna be this is going to have a big

751
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: sort of prediction on what makes someone hit it better

752
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: than another one, because the reality of it is is

753
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: like you know, let's say, even like Justin Rose, right,

754
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: he's got all like you said, you're with the alignment sticks.

755
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: Even to take away all his aliment sticks, and I

756
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: already give him like seven shots at tequila, he's still

757
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: going to hit it better than I am, right, so

758
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: like with all my aliment sticks, because I think he

759
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: does what I would call like air quotes, the really

760
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: good stuff. I think he's kind of always done that

761
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: for the most part, So he's going to be a

762
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: really really good ball striker. Even if you disrupt some

763
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: of the things that he would makes him feel more consistent,

764
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: he's still going to have an inherent consistency to his

765
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: motion that I think is going to kind of trump

766
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: these other versions of like making it less consistent. So

767
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: it's kind of an abstract thing. So this is why

768
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: it's always tough to talk about. But like I appreciate

769
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: you bring it up because it's it helps me sort

770
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: of like maybe communicate it better. Whatever. And this is

771
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: a weird analogy, and you can you can hammer this morning,

772
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: but so to me, I think it was like this,

773
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: like like, let's say I had a die right, and

774
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 1: I was you know, like a crap sty or whatever.

775
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: And let's say I can't really actually read what the

776
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:31,959
Speaker 1: dye says, but I can read it once it lands

777
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: and it stops. And let's say I have a die

778
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 1: and five sides say bad shot on it, and one

779
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: side says good shot. Okay, and I rolled the die

780
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: and good shot comes up. It's like, okay, what did

781
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: I do there? I had my elbow here, Okay, let's

782
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: see my head was here, bad shot? Oh what happened?

783
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: What did I do on that one that I had?

784
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: Good shot? Okay? Hold on, I had my heir, I

785
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: had my my my shoulder here, bad shot. It's like, oh,

786
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: what's going on? Like I thought I had it right,

787
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: So that to me would be like a high handicapper.

788
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: And then on the other stream would be like a

789
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: tour guy, which would be five sides would say good

790
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: shot and once I would say bad shot, and they're like,

791
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 1: good shot, round the back, good shot, you know, oof,

792
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: good shot. It's just like sort of easier. Now, maybe

793
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: they could go through their process and put their lubble there.

794
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: Maybe in a very small way, they can maybe roll

795
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: the good shots a little bit more often, but really

796
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,439
Speaker 1: the majority of the probability of the shots that they're

797
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: hitting is contained in their die, and the die is

798
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: you know, for the analogy is they're sort of that

799
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: late interval stuff that we're talking about before. So that's

800
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: at least part of this big golf kind of like

801
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: puzzle mystery. That's that's part of kind of how I

802
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: see it as a again sort of an analogy to

803
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: to try to help with like something that sort of

804
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: like out there a bit. But I don't know how's

805
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: that Does that make sense? Right?

806
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 2: I know, I think it's looking at it probabilistically and statistically.

807
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what the game, especially you talked about

808
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 2: in the tour level, Chris, where you framed it really

809
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 2: well at the beginning, you know, word zero s you're

810
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 2: trying to find the micro edge.

811
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: You know, this is where I think from from a

812
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: teaching perspective. If like I've helped make, if you may

813
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 1: help a player make, there's certain changes you make where

814
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the game, not even a tour guy,

815
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 1: but like a high handicapper, they make a change and

816
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 1: the game feels easier to them, just like the strike

817
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: is better, the whole shot distribution changes. So it's like,

818
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 1: I don't think this is just a I think this

819
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: is in some ways where players, if they're actually interested

820
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: in like making improvements of their game, can make massive improvements.

821
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: So I actually think it's not just a small edged place,

822
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: but like when someone if they're willing to make a change,

823
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 1: can really experience the game in a completely different fashion.

824
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree, Chris. One question I

825
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 2: wanted to ask you, uh, is on the equipment side.

826
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 2: Tell tell us a little insight into either, you know,

827
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 2: using a change in equipment let's say, you know, driver

828
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 2: or another club in the bag to help influence a

829
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 2: change that a players making right or have you what

830
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 2: examples have you seen of players playing equipment maybe a

831
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 2: driver loft is too low and they're doing some things

832
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: mechanically that's going to fight what you want them to do. Basically,

833
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 2: what I want to get to is just kind of

834
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about equipment slash fitting, equipment slash

835
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 2: coaching and how those two things marry together.

836
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you can't separate them. I mean just

837
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 1: you know, the easiest sort of example is, especially if

838
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: someone's got like some back issues. If the loft is

839
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: too low, they're going to figure out a way to

840
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: hit it high enough. Especially a better player, they're gonna

841
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: they're gonna hit shots that fit their eye. So I

842
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: think you're always whether it be like the trajectory that's

843
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: launching at or if it's like say, you know, got

844
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: more of a draw bias or a fade bias, that's

845
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: all massive role in terms of the changes you're trying

846
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 1: to make with the guy, because they're they're going to

847
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: make the ball do what they want to do. So

848
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 1: you know, as of for instance, if someone's got say

849
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: some back stuff and they're kind of like hanging back

850
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: on it, you know, I'm always gonna try to get them,

851
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: not always, but oftentimes try and get them into a

852
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: more lofted driver so they have that same move they

853
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 1: hit it too high, and then it sort of like

854
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: encourages them to you know, have their chest not be

855
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: so kind of backed out of it and get sort

856
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: of stressed on the lore back.

857
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 2: You know.

858
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: And there's so many different for instances of these, right,

859
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,399
Speaker 1: So it's like if I'm if I'm trying to get

860
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: change the release pattern or something, you know, it's could

861
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: work either way, but like either in the spectrum, but

862
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: like you know, maybe it's something where I want a

863
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: club that's more right biased because I need them to

864
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 1: do something to like try to air quotes square it

865
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: up earlier, and for them it's to take out the

866
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: right or vice versa. Right. So, but but at the

867
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: end of the day, it's it's you know, making changes

868
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: in the golf swing is is sort of like it's

869
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,879
Speaker 1: it's it's it's part of an ecosystem, and you got

870
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: to understand how these pieces play a role and then

871
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: how the player is always going to end up reacting

872
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: to making the ball do something and you kind of

873
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: have to get ahead of that and that's part of

874
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: that's part probably put the puzzle together for sure.

875
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, Chris, do you still play poker?

876
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 3: Uh?

877
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,479
Speaker 1: No, not really. I stopped. It's funny, I uh two

878
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: thousand and two thousand and seven, I played in the

879
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: World Series. I played in the main and I for

880
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: I did not I bust out day one. I qualified

881
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: for thirty dollars and I actually made it very late

882
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,320
Speaker 1: in the day one and had I had trip almost

883
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: tripled my chip stack and I got it. And there

884
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: was one of the guy at the table who I

885
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: didn't know who he was, and he was just give

886
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: him so many fits. And I played a hand with

887
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: him and he just completely outplayed me. He was the

888
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: only guy at the table had me covered, so like

889
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: an hour before the day one broke, he he busted me.

890
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: And I'm kind of like, I'm pretty good about like

891
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: if I feel like I'm making a good decision and

892
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 1: things don't work out, I'm good with. Like I'm pretty

893
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: stoic about like I made the right decision. Whatever I lost, right,

894
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: it's life experience, right, But uh, I had clearly gotten

895
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: outplayed and made like a bad decision. So I was

896
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: like in the lobby it was at the rio, and

897
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: I was like ahead, I was like, oh my god,

898
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: I was just so mad at myself. And he comes

899
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 1: and sits down next to me because I feel like

900
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: I had actually played pretty good at that point. He

901
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: comes down and sits next to me because he had.

902
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: It was like right before the day one broke and

903
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 1: then it broke, and I'm sitting on like the bench

904
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: and he sits next to me. He's like, he's like,

905
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: he played pretty good, and he's and he introduced himself

906
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: to me, and he was like one of the best

907
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: online players at the time in the world, And if

908
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: I had known it was him, I would have like

909
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: just sat on my hands, waited for day two and waited, wait,

910
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: waited for a table break because it was actually a

911
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: really really bad spot because of just how good he was,

912
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 1: and I got, I just got, I got toyed with basically.

913
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 3: So it's like showing up to a money game and

914
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 3: it's Victor Hoblin and you don't know who he is.

915
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, I shouldn't play this guy for five hole.

916
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: That's crazy. Yeah, it was. It was. It was I

917
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: was clearly out of my league. And then after that,

918
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,959
Speaker 1: after that, is right when the golf was like really

919
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: starting to get busy, and I just stopped playing. It's

920
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: just it was too hard to be both. Poker was

921
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: like a blessing. I didn't want to become a losing player,

922
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: and I'd worked pretty hard at it, so I felt like,

923
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: you know, if I wasn't putting the time into it,

924
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be like, I wouldn't be any good at it.

925
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: So I stopped playing. Once in a while, play you know,

926
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: like whatever in Vegas or like different spots and I'm

927
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm the donkey in the room.

928
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 2: So Chris Gray, stuff, man, it's been fun having you

929
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 2: on the team. And you know, I think it's you know,

930
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 2: we have this kind of symbiotic relationship with you on

931
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 2: the research side, which is like, you know, we need

932
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: you to keep asking us questions to push us further right,

933
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 2: And I'm you know, let's it's been fun journey for us,

934
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,439
Speaker 2: the all the team, you know, doctor Eric, doctor Paul,

935
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 2: the rest of the team. How much kind of fun

936
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 2: questions we've had trying to answer questions through our focal system.

937
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 2: It's been super fun. So uh, let's let's keep this

938
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 2: journey going. And uh, we really appreciate having you on

939
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 2: the pod.

940
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I tell you, tell you what, Like,

941
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: the relationship with Ping has been so meaningful to me,

942
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: So I appreciate you saying all that for me personally,

943
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: Like I just get so much value out of the

944
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: relationship with you and Paul and Eric and Chris and

945
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,919
Speaker 1: and and just the way you guys like go about it.

946
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: It's so funny because you know, I've been doing stuff

947
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: with PING for quite a while now, and and uh,

948
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 1: whenever there's like my sort of like relationship with you

949
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 1: guys is contractually up. The start of the negotiation is

950
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: always like, all right, we both know that I'm never

951
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: gonna go anywhere else, So it's it's it's it's one

952
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: of those things wherever.

953
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,720
Speaker 3: It's just gone, Chris, it's like leverage.

954
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: I know, Like there's no there's no point of like

955
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: you know, not not accepting what it is. There's just

956
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 1: so much value I get from you guys, And people

957
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 1: will ask me because I'm always trying to be like

958
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: pretty like transparent with stuff, and it's like, well, you

959
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: know what about all the It's like there's probably lots

960
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: of like I think all the big club companies are

961
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 1: really good, right, Like they're making good stuff. But I

962
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 1: feel so confident in saying that, like from an R

963
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: and D perspective, the team that Ping has in terms

964
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: of just that genuine kind of like curiosity of really

965
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: trying to figure stuff out. Now, maybe someone might like

966
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,439
Speaker 1: one club the way it looks or whatever, who knows, right,

967
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: Like it's just being a human the subjective aspect of

968
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: it all. But in terms of the R and D

969
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: part of it, it's just like it's hard for me

970
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: to imagine a company like really doing the things that

971
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 1: you guys do, so at least for me, I can't

972
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: tell you, guys how I appreciative I am to have

973
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,479
Speaker 1: the relationship and it's it's made me a way better

974
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: coach for it. So thank you, guys.

975
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 2: Love it, Love it.

976
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, Chris, we appreciate it.

977
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:54,280
Speaker 3: It's been great chatting with you for Maco Grady, to science,

978
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 3: to poker and beyond. We appreciate all your insights. We'll

979
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 3: have you on again. Thanks so much. This is paining

980
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:01,280
Speaker 3: Proven Grounds podcast.

981
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: Mm hmm