1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 2: Well, it is day three of the COP twenty nine 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 2: Climate Conference here in bakuaz de Verjan, and as world 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 2: leaders discuss new ways to finance the climate change challenge, 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 2: Donald Trump's return to the White House remains a topic 6 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 2: of discussion. Joining me right now is Greek Prime Minister Kariakosminsuttaki. 7 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 3: Is. 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 2: It's wonderful to have you with us. 9 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. 10 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: I've been here a couple of days now, and I've 11 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: had talks with several people, from policymakers to some of 12 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 2: the big leaders, and I've got to say it's difficult 13 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 2: not to feel a little bit disheartened if you look 14 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: at this state in the direction of travel. Many agencies 15 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: are warning that this is going to be the warmest 16 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: year on record. We continue to see the effects of 17 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: climate change, reeking, disaster and havoc around the continents, even 18 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: in Europe. What is your feeling of where we are 19 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 2: in climate's ambitions versus where we need to get to. 20 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 4: Going to these gatherings for many years now, and there 21 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 4: seems to be a repeating pattern of ambitious targets and expectations. 22 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 3: Which eventually are not met. 23 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: On the other hand, if you look at Europe, important 24 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: changes are being made towards the energy transition, but we 25 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: all understand that these changes. 26 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 3: Need to be accelerated. 27 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: I come from a Militaranian country and the Meditarian is 28 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: a hotbed for climate change. 29 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 3: You saw what happened in Spain. We had similar. 30 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: Floods, thank god, with a less loss of human life 31 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: last year in Greece. So my concern is that as 32 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: much as we focus on long term mitigation, and Greece 33 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: is certainly doing its part, we need to place more 34 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: emphasis on short term adaptation and helping our people cope 35 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: with climate disasters, which we know will happen with increased frequency. 36 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: So when we think about funding, this is not just 37 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: about helping the poorer countries with our energy transition. It 38 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: is also helped be more mature economies dealing with the 39 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: impact of climate change today, which makes a whole debate 40 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: even more complicated. 41 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 2: Absolutely, but let me just ask you a grease specific question. 42 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 2: Last year was the minute wildfires their droughts as well. 43 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: I wonder if Greece has to put in a national 44 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 2: strategy to deal with, say, adequate motor supply in the 45 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 2: years ahead. Is that something that you're thinking about. 46 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: Well, first of all, when you look at the headline numbers, 47 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: no country has brought down No European country has brought 48 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: down its emissions faster since two thousand and five than Greece. 49 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: We produce more than fifty percent of our electricity from 50 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: renewables and this will go up to eighty percent within 51 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 1: the next five to six years. So we're certainly doing 52 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: our part in terms of making the energy transition work 53 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: for Greece. At the same time, we understand that we 54 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: need to focus more on adaptation. We're spending more than 55 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: two billion years in civil protection. Our number one obligation 56 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: is to protect human lives when a catastrophic climate event strikes. 57 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: But of course managing our water supplies is going to 58 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: become a critical my priority for the foreseeable future. We 59 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 1: know we're faced with extreme weather events and with droughts, 60 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: and we have a very ambitious plan to make sure 61 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: that we use our water supplies with a maximum amount 62 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: of efficiency. So for us in Greece, the climate crisis 63 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: is already here. That is why I'm also advertating at 64 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: the European level to devote more funds and cooperation to 65 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: the question of adaptation and the Mediterranean countries will play 66 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: a leading role in this initiative going forward as we 67 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: talk about our inter European financing envelope for climate. 68 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 2: One of the conversation topics looming large here again in 69 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 2: the Climate conference is the return of President Trump to 70 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 2: the White House. The US, for the last couple of 71 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: years have gained a lot of credibility on the climate front. 72 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: There is a concern that some of that US leadership 73 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 2: may fall to the wayside, given that President Trump's own 74 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: stance is a bit more skeptical towards many of these 75 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: climate ambitions and the climate agenda. Who do you think 76 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: will pick up the helm. Is it going to be 77 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: Europe leading the charge forward on climate discussions or is 78 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: it going to be China. 79 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: Well, first of all, let's see what President LEC. Trump 80 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: will actually do, and I do hope that we won't 81 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: see a repeat of the US leading, you know, the 82 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: Paris Agreements. 83 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 3: Two quick points. 84 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: First of all, Europe is leading on the climate transition, 85 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: but we account for six percent of global emissions, so 86 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: we clearly cannot do this on our own. But we 87 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: do understand that focusing on clean tech also from our 88 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: perspective of strategic autonomy is going to be particularly important 89 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,119 Speaker 1: for Europe, and we do intend to dedicate significant funds 90 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: toward that direction. When I look at the US, there's 91 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: national policy, but there's also a clean tech revolution taking 92 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: place in the US, financed primarily by private by private capitals, 93 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: or the US being a very innovative economy. I do 94 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: expect that many innovative solutions which will help us address 95 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 1: the climate prices will still come from the US. 96 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: Reading that you actually have had a call with the 97 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: President ELEC. Trump, can you give us any insights into well, 98 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: not specifically what was discussed, but what you were expecting 99 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 2: in his second term visa v relations with Europe. 100 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: Well, I had a very friendly called with President Trump. 101 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: I am a relatively experienced leader, so I had an 102 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: opportunity to work with him during his first mandate, and 103 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: of course I stressed the importance of the Greek US relations. 104 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: Greece is a pillar stability in the Eastern Mediterranean and 105 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: we've worked very closely with the US and I do 106 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: expect this relationship to continue. When I look at what's 107 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: happening in the US from Europe's point of view, I 108 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: think it emphasizes the need to work very hard to 109 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: support our strategic autonomy and to make sure that the 110 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: European economy becomes more competitive. Flip back to what Draugi 111 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: told us in his report. We discussed this as the 112 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: last European Council. I think it is time to move 113 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: from words to actions. We have a very clear list 114 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: of deliverables in terms of how we can make Europe 115 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 1: more competitive. I think there was already a sense of 116 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: urgency that we're lagging behind even before the election of 117 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: President Trump to the White House. I think we will 118 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: address this question with a renewed sense of urgency. 119 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: Now, what if President Trump starts applying terrorifts on European goods? 120 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 2: Will there be an incentive for Europe to retaliate? Then 121 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 2: you enter into this tit for tat trade war. 122 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in free trade and I don't 123 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: believe in teris in principle, and I think that a 124 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: trade war would be bad both of the US and 125 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: for Europe. I do think there is a possibility on 126 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: the US European relationship to work with President Trump and to. 127 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 3: Find a win win a solution. 128 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,799 Speaker 1: For example, Europe will be looking to import a more 129 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: liquified natural gas from the US, and I'm talking about 130 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: LERG because we understand that in the interim, until renewables 131 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: hit their full potential, we will need a natural gas 132 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: for the foreseeable futures. That will certainly help us in 133 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: terms of our trade. 134 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 3: Balance with the US. 135 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: So I think there are ways to discuss with the 136 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: US administration and to find the win win solutions. I'm 137 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: a big believer in the Transatlantic partnership, and I think 138 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: when we look at the big global challenges of the 139 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: world the station, we need to continue to work strongly 140 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: with the US to address those challenges. 141 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 142 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 2: Well, one thing that I do question is Trump's approach 143 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 2: to multilateral frameworks, and we know from his first term 144 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: that he's sort of preferred by lateral approach with leaders 145 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 2: around the world. What does that do to your collective 146 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: standing and stands visa v approaching some of these relationships specifically, 147 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 2: you know, when you talk about trade and when you 148 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: talk about defense, is Europe going to be unified? 149 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: I think that's a good question, and I think we 150 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: all have, you know, bilateral relations with the US. 151 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 3: Preseradly has one. 152 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: We have a Defense Corporation agreement because you know, defense 153 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: is a national prerogative. But when it comes to trade, 154 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: I do need to point out that this is a 155 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: competence of the European Commission, and we will negotiate with 156 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: the US as a European Union, and of course we 157 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: have much more leverage in doing so. I think you 158 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: will see a combination of US strengthening our bilateral ties 159 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: but also speaking with one voice when it comes to Europe. 160 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: The challenge for Europe is to first of all get 161 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: to the point where we speak with one with one 162 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: voice on these issues. But again, as I told you, 163 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: there is a renewed sense of urgency in terms of 164 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: focusing on European competitiveness, and we have a European Commission 165 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: that is very much committed in moving towards that direction. 166 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: So I'm cautiously optimistic that we will be able to 167 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: deliver on our general. 168 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 2: So let me just stand on a Greece specific question 169 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: on the economy. Greece actually has been growing much faster 170 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 2: than other economies in Europe the last couple of years. 171 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 2: Poor European countries is struggling. Career free countries are actually 172 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 2: doing much better. Do you see Greece's economy as being 173 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 2: able to continue and sustain the momentum that's in place. 174 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: I don't think many people would have placed their beds 175 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: five or six years ago that Greece would be a 176 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: country with very stable public finances, growing much faster than 177 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: the Eurozone, bringing down our debt at a very very 178 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: fast pace, attracting investment, creating new jobs. Yes, very optimistic 179 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: about the Greek economy in the short two medium term. 180 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: We have three more years in our term. We have 181 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: a stable government that is able to deliver on reforms, 182 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: we continue to bring in investment. We had a record 183 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: year when it comes to tourism. We're investing a lot 184 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: in cutting edge sectors, including tech. So I think we 185 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: have a very good growth story which is certainly attracting 186 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: the interest of the international financial community, and I do 187 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: expect Greek growth to continue to deliver. 188 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 3: My number one focus is on making. 189 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: Sure that we converge which Europe at a fast pace 190 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: and we sort of make up for. 191 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 3: The lost ground of the last decade. 192 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: And of course bringing up our wages and addressing the 193 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: cost of living crisis is my number one priority these days. 194 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 2: Fantastic Prime Minister, Thank you so much for speaking with us. 195 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 2: That was the Greek Prime Minister Kiriakos Mitsotakis. Thank you 196 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 2: very much.