1 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: The funny thing about curses is that a curse is 2 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,239 Speaker 1: real if you believe in it, and we can't help 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: as people to make connections from one thing to another, 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: even if they have nothing in common. We look for 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: order in the chaos because we want to try to 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: make sense of it. So, yeah, I mean, is the 7 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: Bordon family cursed? Is Fall River cursed? Is it all 8 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: of the above? These are big questions. 9 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: We're still in New England, y'all, but now we're just 10 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 2: about ten miles to the north of Portsmouth, Rhode Island. 11 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: We're tooling around an infamous town that I'm sure you've 12 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: all heard of, Fall River, Massachusetts, Lizzy Bordon's hometown. But 13 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 2: this season really isn't about the Bordon case, although we 14 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: do need to talk about that because our main family 15 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: is closely connected to the Burdens. This is a season 16 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 2: about curses, family curses and curses on entire towns. Do 17 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 2: you think they're real? I'm still not sure, though. This 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 2: season has given me a lot to think about. So 19 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 2: with that in mind, we're here at a curious spot 20 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 2: in fall River, an area that back in the nineteenth 21 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: century seemed like it might have been doomed We're talking 22 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 2: about an area that spans just a few city blocks, 23 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 2: but it's a place where, over about one hundred and 24 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 2: fifty years, several bizarre, media grabbing tragedies occurred. These were 25 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 2: not domestic disputes or botched bank robberies or random shootings. 26 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,919 Speaker 2: These were deaths that seemed so out of the norm 27 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 2: that statistically they were anomalies, even if they were decades apart. 28 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: Do you believe that a person or even a place 29 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 2: can be cursed? England to goes to experts. Jeff Balanger believes. 30 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: Maybe he told me that it depends how much you 31 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: want to believe it you see what you want to see. 32 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: It runs on belief, on faith, on stories, on people 33 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: suddenly realizing like whoa, I'm on Second Street in Fall River, 34 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: and oh there's Lizzie's and there's Eliza's, and there's the cathedral, 35 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: and that's where the fire was. And by the way, 36 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: there's the courthouse where all kinds of murderers have been 37 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: tried and so on. All right there. 38 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 2: Maybe that place brings an energy that you can't explain, 39 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 2: just a feeling that something feels off. This was the 40 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,839 Speaker 2: room where Lizzie Borden stood that kind of thing. 41 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 1: You can let that get into your head and then 42 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: from that point out there's nothing you can do. You 43 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: are in a scary place. 44 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 2: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a crime historian and the author 45 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 2: of The Ghost Club, American Sherlock and All that is Wicked, 46 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 2: And this is our twelfth season of tenfold more Wicked 47 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: on exactly right. This season is going to be very 48 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: different from what we've done before. It isn't just about 49 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 2: one crime or one tragedy within one family. It's about 50 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: a section of a city that has seen tragedy after tragedy, 51 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: something that no town deserves, but when we look closer, 52 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 2: the city also benefits from the attention. It's also about 53 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 2: one family with many connections, and this season reaches back 54 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: to our last season and the Rebecca Briggs Cornell story. 55 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: I call this season a blessing and a curse. 56 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 3: Do you live here? 57 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 4: Yeah? 58 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm a local. 59 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 6: We're born and bred here. 60 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 5: I was born in Tayan, but I've lived most of 61 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 5: my life. I've had in far. 62 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: Other people staying here right now, Yes, we're at the 63 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 2: Lizzie Borden House in Full River, Hello. 64 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 7: So we can set up in here if you would like. 65 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 8: I mean, we can pull those stores whatever you need 66 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 8: to do. 67 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 5: So if people have any experiences, they cannot record them. Okay, 68 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 5: jacket Off. 69 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 2: Last season, we told the story of a deadly fire 70 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 2: in Rhode Island and the tragic death of Rebecca Briggs 71 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 2: Cornell of the famous Cornell family. At the end of 72 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: that story, we teased an intriguing familial connection. Well, it 73 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: turns out that one of the tragedies of this season 74 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: involves one of Rebecca Cornell's descendants, Eliza Darling Borden. And 75 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 2: Eliza Borden was Lizzie Borden's great aunt. Eliza and Lizzie's 76 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: great uncle lived right next door to the Bordon House 77 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 2: before Lizzie Borden's father, Andrew Borden lived there. Those two 78 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 2: Bordon homes are still there and they have been surrounded 79 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 2: by tragedy over the past two centuries. 80 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 4: Have you ever been here before? 81 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 2: To the I have been to Fall River. 82 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 3: I've never been to the Linnie Morton House. 83 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 4: No, haven't. 84 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 6: I'm writing a book about something different that happened here, 85 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 6: the Saramony Cornell murder that happened in the eighteen twenties. 86 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 5: She was Lizzie's cousin. 87 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 6: She was was it cousin? 88 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 5: But was it? 89 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 8: Actually if she was a cousin on the mother's side, 90 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 8: then she would have been a double cousin because she 91 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 8: was also related on the father's side. 92 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 5: Huh. 93 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 2: Do you remember Carrie Nolty. We heard from her a 94 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 2: lot last season because she's a descendant of Rebecca Cornell. 95 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 2: She's here with me again, thankfully. 96 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 9: So thsies descended from Thomas Cornell Portsmouth and his son 97 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 9: through So Thomas had Thomas and then had Innocent Cornell Bordon, 98 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 9: who was Zzy's great great great great grandmother, and Thomas 99 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 9: Senior had another son, Stephen Cornell, who was Sarah Cornell's 100 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 9: I want to say sixth great grandfather. 101 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 3: Hmm, it's confusing. 102 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 8: She's in the midst summerlated. 103 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 104 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 2: On a cold November night, she and I visit to 105 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: both Borden houses in Fall River, and I asked Carrie 106 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 2: about these two or three blocks and this supposed curse. 107 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 2: You'll hear about each story soon. 108 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 6: Sure you're saying there was a fire that killed four 109 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 6: people here. Then you've got Lizzie Bardon, then you've got 110 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 6: Eliza Bardon, and then you've got the Satanic Panic Lady 111 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 6: basically block. 112 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 10: Of each other. 113 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 4: That's crazy. 114 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 8: It's you can see every single location from every single 115 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 8: location on this street. That's where something happens the town. 116 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 8: I think it's this one, just this one street. 117 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 2: It's actually a few blocks and they're all really close. 118 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: Carry and I were joined by Ashley Buliro, she's a 119 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 2: wonderful tour guide. With the Lizzie Borden House on Second 120 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 2: Street and Fall River. 121 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 5: We're also in the Bridgewater Triangle too, where a lot 122 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 5: of unexplained things just happen in this area. 123 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 2: I had never heard of the Bridgewater Triangle, but later 124 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: that will end up widening our scope a bit. 125 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 8: Isn't this part of the Massachusetts area where the King 126 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 8: Phillips wore really raged? Just awful atrocities on both sides, 127 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,679 Speaker 8: people being tortured to death. 128 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: Essentially a little bit about that. King Philip's War took 129 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 2: place in New England in sixteen seventy five. Native Americans 130 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: banded together and pushed back on the English colonists who 131 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 2: were taking over their land. A Lumpanoag chief named Metacom, 132 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 2: who later renamed himself King Philip, led the bloody battles 133 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 2: that lasted about fourteen months. The colonists fought back, burning 134 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 2: Native American villages, murdering women and children. Thousands of people 135 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 2: were killed, many were wounded or enslaved. Entire Native American 136 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 2: tribes were destroyed, while more colonists moved onto their land, 137 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 2: and much of it happened here in Full River. There 138 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: was so much bloodshed right here, Ashley says, you can't 139 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: have that much tragedy in one spot and not feel 140 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 2: the consequences for generations. 141 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 7: This land. 142 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 5: I believe it's fully cursed. There's just so much that 143 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 5: happens here. 144 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 2: While we're meeting new people this season, Jeff Balanger is 145 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 2: my tour guide on all things cursed. He knows the 146 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 2: history of curses in multiple cities, and I'm going to 147 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 2: let him introduce himself. 148 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: I'm an author, a podcaster, my host the New England 149 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: Legends podcast, a writer, a researcher and speaker on all 150 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: things weird, haunted, and strange. 151 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 2: My kind of experts. He's obviously from the area and 152 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 2: he knows about its history. So let's have a reality 153 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 2: check because Fall River, Massachusetts feels like a nice city 154 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 2: to me. This season is not meant to be critical 155 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 2: more like curious. I asked Jeff Balanger about Fall River 156 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 2: and what it's like right now. 157 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: Great Cherie's some great sausage down there, a lot of 158 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: Portuguese population, and so if you like that food, there's 159 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: restaurants everywhere. Some great history too. 160 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 2: Jeff says that Fall River is in a great location 161 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: and it has a fascinating history as a port, as 162 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 2: a mill town, and as a city with an incredible 163 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 2: backstory that doesn't involve curses. 164 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 1: You're super close to Providence, Rhode Island. You're down there 165 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: on the water. There's Battleship Cove. There's a lot of 166 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 1: great history, you know, mill history, ocean history, all that stuff. 167 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 2: But all that great history tends to get overshadowed by 168 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 2: the woman accused in eighteen ninety two of murdering her 169 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 2: father and her stepmother with an axe and getting away with. 170 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: It, which is interesting because it's just this one little 171 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: house right there in the middle of town, not even 172 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: the greatest neighborhood, by the way, and it's all anybody 173 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: can think of when you say Fall River. 174 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 2: Let's start from the beginning, miles away from Fall River 175 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 2: with the Cornell family. Here's a reminder of what happened 176 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 2: last season. In February of sixteen seventy three, Rebecca Briggs 177 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 2: Cornell sat alone in her rocking chair in her cold 178 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: room on the bottom floor of her large house in Portsmouth. 179 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 2: She was weaving, a craft she did most nights. Sometime 180 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 2: that evening, her son Thomas visited her. She turned down 181 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: his offer of dinner with the family because she didn't 182 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 2: feel well, and he left her for the night. Rebecca 183 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: later died after catching her clothing on fire. It was 184 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: assumed that the seventy three year old had died accidentally. 185 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 2: Our experts believed that she might have actually had a 186 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 2: heart attack and fallen near the fireplace, catching herself on fire, 187 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: or maybe it happened when a spark flew out and 188 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 2: ignited her clothing. But Rebecca's brother, John Briggs, claimed that 189 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 2: he was visited by Rebecca's ghost and that she insisted 190 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 2: he look into her cause of death. Rebecca's body was 191 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 2: re examined and a tiny wound was discovered, something that 192 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: apparently went unnoticed by the matrons that had dressed her 193 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 2: for the funeral. Soon, her son, Thomas Cornell Junior, was 194 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 2: arrested for her murder. Accused by neighbors of elder abuse. 195 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 2: If his mother died, he was the one who would 196 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 2: receive the estate. But did he murder her? Maybe not, 197 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 2: our experts told me, and I don't think there's enough 198 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 2: evidence to say for sure. Thomas certainly shouldn't have been 199 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 2: charged or hanged, but at least he was buried on 200 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 2: his own property. His wife, Sarah Earle of the famous 201 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: Earl family, continued to proclaim her husband's innocence, and then 202 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 2: when she was charged as an accessory after his execution, 203 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 2: she proclaimed her own innocence too. Maybe Sarah Earle was innocent, 204 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 2: but before her mother in law's fiery death, Rebecca had 205 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 2: claimed that Sarah chased around her own step children with 206 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: an axe. An axe sounds familiar. Here's where the story 207 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 2: really gets interesting. It turns out that Sarah Earle was 208 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 2: pregnant when Thomas was hanged, and if you recall, she 209 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: had a little girl who she named Innocent. Local historians 210 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: Anne Burns and Gloria Schmidt from last season remind us 211 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 2: of how innocent fits into this story. 212 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 10: That is, the direct great great great grandmother of Lizzie Boreden. 213 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 4: Lizzie is an innocent sline, so it's a very interesting family. 214 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 4: You have the founder of Cornell Universities in that line too, 215 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 4: So all these families are all interconnected. It's an interweaving story. 216 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 4: So you know, you find in other situations where you know, 217 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 4: somebody that was a son or daughter of Thomas Cornell 218 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 4: comes into other stories of Wortsmouth history. 219 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 2: Okay, So Sarah Earl may have helped murder her mother 220 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 2: in law, or perhaps she had just been an erratic person. 221 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 2: We don't know, but we do know Sarah's daughter, Innocent, 222 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 2: was directly related to Lizzie Borden, and there were other 223 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 2: people in between other incidents between sixteen seventy three and 224 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 2: Lizzie's trial in eighteen ninety three, over two hundred years later, 225 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 2: and they all seem connected to the region. Let's talk 226 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 2: about this phenomenon regions or cities that are supposedly cursed. 227 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 2: The first one that comes to my mind is from 228 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 2: my very first season of tenfold Moore Wicked, the one 229 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 2: about multiple murderer Edward Ruloff and the town he tormented, Dryden, 230 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 2: New York. I love Dryden. I got to go there 231 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 2: several times to visit the scut family at their farm. 232 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 2: It had an old house and a nineteenth century well 233 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 2: with a creek running behind it. But that family farm 234 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 2: was the backdrop for a family tragedy. In the mid 235 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds, self proclaimed genius Edward Ruloff moved to Dryden 236 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 2: and married into a prominent local family, the Scuts. He 237 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: eventually murdered his wife and their infant child, along with 238 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 2: his sister in law and her child, and then later 239 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: he killed a store clerk before he was finally hanged. 240 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 2: But Edward Ruloff would not be the only killer to 241 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: haunt Dryden. Almost one hundred and fifty years later, the 242 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 2: area endured a series of horrible murders, ten killings in 243 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: seven years. Outsiders called it the Village of the Damned, 244 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 2: a nickname the locals really dislike, and actually they have 245 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,479 Speaker 2: a point because many of the murders happened just outside 246 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 2: of Dryden. But for almost a decade, the region really 247 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 2: did seem to cursed. In nineteen eighty nine, just three 248 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 2: days before Christmas, four members of the Harris family were 249 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 2: brutally killed inside their home. The murderer simply knocked on 250 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 2: the door asking for help. The whole family was murdered, mother, father, 251 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 2: and two children, so that was just down the road 252 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 2: from the Scuts. After the Harris murders, residents began dead 253 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 2: bolting their doors, applications for gun permits dramatically increased, and 254 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 2: people began buying more security systems. The killer died just 255 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: a few days later in a shootout with police, leaving 256 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 2: the community stunned and frightened. But there was almost no 257 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 2: time to mourn, because just two months later, the next 258 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 2: tragedy struck. In February of nineteen ninety, a young mother 259 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 2: called the authorities claiming that her toddler had been kidnapped. 260 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 2: After a massive search, investigators discovered that actually she had 261 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 2: killed her two year old daughter and buried her in. 262 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 3: The nearby woods. 263 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 2: And then four years later, a high school student fatally 264 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 2: stabbed a teenage friend over a lover's triangle, and in 265 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four, a different high school student shot to 266 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 2: death his ex girlfriend's father, who was the high school 267 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 2: football coach. Two years later, in nineteen ninety six, a 268 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 2: man killed his supervisor at work. But perhaps the most 269 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 2: shocking event came the very next month, October nineteen ninety six, 270 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 2: two cheerleaders at Dryden High School were kidnapped sexually assaulted, 271 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 2: and then dismembered. The remains scattered throughout the surrounding countryside. 272 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 2: The suspect was a neighbor, and before he could stand 273 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 2: trial for his crimes, he died by suicide in prison. 274 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 2: Unlike Fall River, Dryden has not benefited from its moniker 275 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 2: The Village of the Damned. Someone turned it into a 276 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 2: TV show and many of the locals were outraged. But 277 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 2: it does seem odd all those terrible things happening in 278 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 2: one place, not just deaths or even murders. 279 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 3: But truly awful things. 280 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 2: Local historian Jeff Balanger says, if you look hard enough, 281 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 2: every area is cursed, especially if it's old like Dryden, 282 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 2: New York, or Fall River, Massachusetts. 283 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: Suddenly you go, oh, I broke a mirror, And later 284 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: that day you drop your favorite coffee cup and it shatters, 285 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: and you go that's the curse, that's the mirror thing. 286 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 1: And then you get a paper cut, and you're like, 287 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: oh no, now what right now, I've got a paper cut, 288 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: And then you know you're on edge and you're nervous 289 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: all the time because what's next. What happens after the 290 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: paper cut and the coffee cup breaks? Am I gonna die. 291 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 2: Jeff says that the paper cut and the broken coffee 292 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 2: cup can lead you into a panic. 293 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: If you're superstitious, we start going down that hole our 294 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: defense mechanism, we start panicking, we start having anxiety, and 295 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: so on. 296 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 2: Jeff believes that communities can experience the same kind of phenomena. 297 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: Well, wait, there was a Lizzie Borden murder. There's a 298 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 1: new Bedford highwa murder. There's a call Drew Cull murder. 299 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: There's you know, you start going back in time and 300 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: connecting one thing to the next, to the next, to 301 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: the next to the next, and suddenly you think you're 302 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: living in the most cursed place on earth. 303 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 2: I'm still not convinced of curses, and making all of 304 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 2: those connections sounds exhausting, and yet I keep returning to 305 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 2: Fall River and that block of curious blocks. If a 306 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 2: place can be cursed, then it seems like maybe a 307 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 2: family can be too. Here's our first story about a 308 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 2: supposedly cursed family. 309 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 3: But I need to keep it short. I have a 310 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 3: new book. 311 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 2: Coming out next year called The Sinners All Bow, and 312 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 2: it's about this case. 313 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 3: Now. 314 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 2: The person at the center is a member of the 315 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 2: Cornell family. But the location of her death isn't in 316 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 2: the two block or three block radius of Fall River 317 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 2: that we're focused on for this season. It's several blocks away, 318 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: and right now we're talking about the curse of the Family. 319 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 2: Almost one hundred and sixty years after Rebecca Briggs Cornell's death, 320 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,479 Speaker 2: another Cornell woman with a troubled history was facing an 321 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 2: uncertain future. Sarah Maria Cornell was a direct descendant of 322 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 2: Thomas Cornell on her father's side. At age thirty, Sarah 323 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 2: was what was known as a mill girl. She was 324 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 2: one of a generation of young women in New England 325 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 2: who toiled long hours in the rash of factories and 326 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 2: mills that had begun peppering the region. Sarah converted from 327 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 2: being a Congregationalist to a Methodist, but when she accused 328 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 2: a Methodist minister of sexual assaulting her and getting her 329 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 2: pregnant and may have gotten her killed, in December of 330 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 2: eighteen thirty two, she was found hanging from a haystack 331 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 2: pole in Fall River, which at the time was known 332 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 2: as Tiverton, Rhode Island. The minister went on trial for murder, 333 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 2: but the question was did Sarah die by her own 334 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 2: hand or his. In my book, I'm reinvestigating the case. 335 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 2: I'm using forensic experts as well as new knowledge to 336 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 2: determine if there was a miscarriage of justice and if 337 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 2: my co author's work condemned an innocent man. The trick 338 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 2: is my co author died about one hundred and seventy 339 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 2: years ago. Sarah Maria Cornell had been an outcast to 340 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 2: her family, a wayward but committed woman who had a 341 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 2: complicated past. A lot of the Cornells seemed to have 342 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 2: complicated pasts, as we'll see. As I said, Sarah's death 343 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 2: happened a few blocks south from the Borden House, toward 344 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 2: the water. But now let's get to our next interconnected tragedies, 345 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 2: which happened right across the street from the Bardon House. 346 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 2: There were five horrific violent incidents at two locations just 347 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 2: feet from each other, all involving the Bordon family. The first, 348 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 2: more than ten years after Sarah Maria Cornell's death, was 349 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 2: a terrible fire. Ashley Belliro is that tour guide from 350 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 2: the Bordon House. She takes her customers outside of the 351 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 2: infamous home and points to the large building across the street. 352 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:24,199 Speaker 5: Then we stop at the Farvard Courthouse in that area 353 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 5: in eighteen forty three. It was the Great Fire of 354 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 5: eighteen forty three. 355 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 2: But before we talk about the fire, we need to 356 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 2: meet some people first. More intertwining of families. Let's jump 357 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 2: over to the family of Sarah Earle, wife of Thomas 358 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 2: Cornell Junior. Remember how we said that these two families 359 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 2: were interconnected with a line going straight from Innocent Cornell 360 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 2: to Lizzie Borden about two hundred years later. For now, 361 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 2: we need to stop in the middle where this fire happens. 362 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 2: On the street Lizzie Borden would later call home in 363 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 2: eighteen forty three, Eliza Bode, Lizzie Borden's great aunt, lived 364 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 2: here with her husband, Lordwick Borden, along with her son 365 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 2: from her first marriage. For orientation, Carrie Nolty helps me 366 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 2: understand how Lizzie Borden's great aunt fits into our family 367 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 2: line that starts with our sort of villain from last season, 368 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 2: Sarah Earl. 369 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 3: So Eliza is a descendant from Innocent. 370 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 8: Or no no, she is a descendant from Earl Sarah 371 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 8: Earl's sister Martha Gosh. So there are several descendants along 372 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 8: in this family who have committed fairly heinous acts or 373 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 8: have been accused of committing fairly Hannah's acts. And they 374 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 8: are all descended from this group of siblings who are 375 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 8: descended from one man named Ralph Earl, of whom we 376 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 8: know very very little, just that he was quite prosperous 377 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 8: and really of good repute in the town of Portsmouth, 378 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 8: Rhode Island, which is where he settled after coming to America. 379 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 2: Many descendants from the Earl family committed heinous crimes. I 380 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 2: wondered why I hadn't heard that when I had read 381 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 2: about Lizzie Borden a history of mental illness or violence. 382 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 2: Either of those would have helped the prosecutor. I would think, how. 383 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 3: Entrenched I know, we're going to jump around a little 384 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 3: bit bit. 385 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 2: How entrenched do you think Lizzie Borden was in the 386 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 2: Earle family. 387 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,959 Speaker 8: I think that the connection was all but forgotten. I 388 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 8: don't direct, direct, direct in three ways. So Sarah Earl 389 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 8: Cornell and Thomas Cornell Junior were her fifth great grandparents. 390 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:47,479 Speaker 8: Mary Earle, Sarah's sister, was another fifth great grandmother, and 391 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 8: William Earle, sarah Earl's brother, was Lizzie's sixth great grandfather. 392 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 2: There are a lot of family ties in this story. 393 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 8: So it really it folds in on its quite a 394 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 8: bit in this family, and that's pretty natural for a 395 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 8: fairly insulated community. Thank god we had a lot of 396 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 8: immigration in the nineteenth century, because where would we be. 397 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 3: So you get it. 398 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 2: Everyone in this area who was white and moderately affluent 399 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 2: seemed to be related. The Cornells, the Brigs, the Bordons, 400 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 2: and the Durfees all married each other, and Eliza Darling 401 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 2: was one of those who married into the Bordon family, 402 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 2: which almost seemed to doom her. In eighteen forty three, 403 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 2: the thirty two year old married Loudwick Borden and they 404 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 2: and her young son moved into the house next door 405 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 2: to Andrew Borden's future home. The boy liked to play 406 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 2: around the neighborhood, including across the street from their house 407 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 2: at the warehouse that will become the site of our 408 00:25:50,440 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 2: next tragedy. I'm back with our Borden tour guide, Ashley 409 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 2: Buliro and Carrie Nolty on a cold November night in 410 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 2: Fall River. We're standing near a modern looking building. Thankfully, 411 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 2: both Carrie and Ashley know a lot about the. 412 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 5: History, so this is the back of the courthouse, So 413 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 5: the front of the courthouse. This is where the great 414 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 5: fire of eighteen forty three had happened. 415 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 8: And it happened directly across the street from where the 416 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 8: Burdens were eventually killed and where Lodwick and Eliza were living, 417 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 8: and a little bit down the street. What was the building? 418 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 11: Do we am? 419 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 2: The building? 420 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 3: I believe was a furniture warehouse. It was immense. 421 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 2: It was July second of eighteen forty three, around four pm, 422 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 2: and two boys who were never identified, explored the back 423 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 2: of a large three story where house owned by a 424 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 2: man named Abner Westgate, near the corner of Maine and 425 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:10,719 Speaker 2: Borden Streets. The area was sizable and very open. The 426 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 2: boys were bored and they killed time by looking around. 427 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 2: It was a hot day, more than ninety degrees, and. 428 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 8: It had been a very hot and dry summer. 429 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 5: We're also in a drought, so the ground is extremely dry. 430 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 5: The day of July second, two small boys are in 431 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 5: this field where the Fall River Courthouse is located downtown 432 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 5: Fall River, and they come across a small cannon and 433 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 5: curiosity gets the best of them. 434 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 3: They believe that. 435 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 5: This small cannon is in this field because Fall River 436 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 5: is getting ready to celebrate the Fourth of July festivities. 437 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 2: The boys stared at the cannon, smiled at each other, 438 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 2: and lit it with a match. The blast ignited a 439 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 2: scattering of wood shavings on the ground, which were left 440 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 2: behind by workers in the warehouse. 441 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 5: Once that small pile of wood shavings is ignited, within 442 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 5: five minutes it reaches nearby buildings and it is towering 443 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 5: fifty feet up into the sky. 444 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 2: At this point, I'm going to pull in for ends. 445 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 2: Like chemist Rachel Burks, whom we met last season, I 446 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 2: asked her how a small pile of wood chips and 447 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 2: wood shavings could cause such a big fire. 448 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 10: Well, as soon as you. 449 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 11: Said woodchips, I went, yeah, yah, because the surface area 450 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 11: is so high, right, And so another thing think about cold. 451 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 11: Think about briquets, you know, small, a lot of them, 452 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 11: spatially spread out, maximize surface area. And sometimes people will 453 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 11: talk about all these your cats are too big, right, 454 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 11: because you want to really make them a bit smaller, 455 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 11: so there's higher surface area. Sometimes some of these big fires, 456 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,479 Speaker 11: or like a storage accident with grain, is that fine 457 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 11: powder and it's a particle to particle burn, which if 458 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 11: it goes into a explosion called deflagration, which is a 459 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 11: particle to particle burn. It's very rapid, slow compared to detonation, 460 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 11: but you cannot outrun it. 461 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 10: I don't care what Hollywood movies say. 462 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 3: And then there's the wind. 463 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 11: And if anyone's ever cut a plywood, you can see 464 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 11: like the dust material with a windy day in a 465 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 11: dry environment, I'm imagining layers of particulate matter. It's fuel, 466 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 11: it's already got oxygen. 467 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 10: You sock it with heat. Are we actually talking. 468 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 11: About a fire that rolled over into a deflication and 469 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 11: that's why it just went right through this place? 470 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 10: And this is one of those examples. 471 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 11: Unfortunately, it sounds like of evil luck like because it's 472 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 11: such complicated chemistry, but it does sound like it was 473 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 11: a perfect storm for. 474 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 10: A combustion of this uncontrollable. 475 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 3: Nature, especially with the conditions. 476 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 10: And then you have it on that rye aird you're 477 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 10: in a drought. 478 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 11: And the other thing, if any kind of really wall 479 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 11: of heat is moving with this thing where there's a 480 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 11: particle to particle burn. 481 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 10: That can be you know, very fast, right faster than. 482 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 12: We can run. 483 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 10: You're coming in with this wall of energy. You just 484 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 10: have this heat front that is marching through. 485 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 2: Within five minutes, the fire raged Fall River's fire bell 486 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 2: clanged as terrified residents evacuated onto the streets, including the 487 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 2: residents at the Borden home across the street. A sheet 488 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 2: of fire pushed onlookers backward. Here are details from a 489 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 2: book called The History of Fall River. Showers of sparks 490 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 2: and cinders carried by the heavy wind kindled many buildings 491 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 2: before they were reached by the body of the fire. 492 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 2: The whole space between Maine, Franklin Rock, and Borden Streets 493 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 2: was one vast sheet of fire, entirely beyond the control 494 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 2: of man. Here's another contemporary description. The buildings on both 495 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 2: sides of Main Street were soon burning, and the wind 496 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 2: blowing nearly parallel with the street. 497 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 3: All hope of. 498 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 2: Controlling the flames and saving the business part of the 499 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 2: village was abandoned. So sudden were the movements of the 500 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 2: flames unexpectedly rising in different localities, that in many cases 501 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 2: all efforts to preserve property were ineffectual. The people could 502 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 2: only helplessly watch with fear as the fire spread. They 503 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 2: listened to the crackling flames, the crash of falling timber 504 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 2: and the whistling of the wind. The blaze flashed like lightning. 505 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 2: The fire raced across wooden buildings, roaring like thunder. 506 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 5: The fall of a fire department comes down, and the 507 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 5: channels that they would have used to obtain the water 508 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 5: to put the fire arrow is actually down for maintenance. 509 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 5: So the fire rages on until midnight. That night, twenty 510 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 5: acres of land is ruined and thirteen hundred people are displaced. 511 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 2: Despite every effort from responders, only a change in wind 512 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 2: direction stopped the fire spread. Luckily, mother nature intervened, but 513 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 2: in the end the fire had destroyed almost three hundred buildings. 514 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 2: The history of Fall River says they looked upon their 515 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 2: village in ruins and felt that it must long bear 516 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 2: the marks of this fearful calamity. The toll on Fall 517 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 2: River was enormous, but the human toll was the most devastating. 518 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 5: Four people had perished because of the fire, whether it 519 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 5: be Smokinghalasian or the flames. But on one of the 520 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 5: death certificates it's said that someone wasn't smoking elation or flames. 521 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 5: They died of right, So it's kind of like they're 522 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 5: way back then of saying someone had a heart attack. 523 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 2: That's a good theory. I asked rachel Burks about it. 524 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 2: What would cause someone to die in a fire without 525 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 2: being burned aside from smoke inholation. But as Ashley said 526 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 2: to me, these folks were terrified. 527 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 12: What if that panic, that rising panic that you described, 528 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 12: along with the response to pain and all of these 529 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 12: other things going on, then maybe the precipitating event was 530 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,719 Speaker 12: not a stroke or cardiac arrest or whatever. 531 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,959 Speaker 10: But what maybe that could be leading to is a 532 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 10: substantial event like that. 533 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 2: Rachelle says that a victim's health history would also be important. 534 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 11: But you had all these other health challenges that were 535 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 11: contributing to this whole sequence of events. And I think 536 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 11: a lot of times what you'll see in forensic literature 537 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 11: or pathology litters sure is it isn't. 538 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 10: Usually just one thing. 539 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 11: It is a lethal sequence of events that occurs. 540 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 2: In the fire of eighteen forty three, there was so 541 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 2: much devastation. Even precious artifacts were lost. 542 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 5: The biggest thing that we lost in this fire is 543 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 5: the fall River Anthoneum, And in this library is a 544 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 5: skeleton that's encased in glass and it was actually found 545 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 5: by Hannah Bordon Cook in eighteen thirty two. She was 546 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 5: digging up sand to use it as a scoring agent 547 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 5: when she comes across the top of a skull. Instead 548 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 5: of burying this skull and leaving it there to rest 549 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 5: in peace, they decide to unearth it. When they're digging 550 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 5: this skeleton up, they noticed that it is buried in 551 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 5: an upright position with its arms pointed towards its shoulders. 552 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 5: It would have been a common burial practice by the 553 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 5: Native American. But what's odd is that this skeleton is 554 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 5: encased in bark. 555 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 2: Ashley says that when they pulled the bark back, they 556 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 2: found a chest plate of brass and a brass belt, 557 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 2: along with brass and copper arrowheads in the grave. 558 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 5: So a lot of people assume, well, maybe it was 559 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 5: Native American, but they didn't really have access to those 560 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 5: type of metals. Or maybe it was a chief of 561 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 5: the Wampanog or the Narraganta tribe that maybe traded with 562 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 5: the early settlers of America. Some people believe that it 563 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 5: was a Viking. Some people believe that it was just 564 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 5: an early explorer, but because the Great Fire of eighteen 565 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 5: forty three will never know because it claimed it as its. 566 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 2: Own Ashley says that she's certain that unearthing and then 567 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 2: exploiting the remains of people who were once in full 568 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 2: river might have just doomed the city. 569 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 5: Since then, Ball River has had a lot of fires 570 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 5: since that had happened. I do I think that Fall 571 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 5: River is definitely cursed. I think a lot of Native 572 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 5: American burial lands have been disturbed. 573 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 2: Fall River was devastated. It was such a huge event 574 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 2: that residents often referred to eras in the city's history 575 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 2: as before the fire and after the fire. Every time 576 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 2: they heard the fire bell from July second, eighteen forty 577 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 2: three on, it evoked terror. One contemporary description read, the 578 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 2: alarm is scarcely sounded before our firemen are at their posts, 579 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 2: our steam and hand engines in working order, and our 580 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 2: streets filled with anxious and interested lookers on The residents 581 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 2: blamed the inadequate fire department for the blaze, but two 582 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:50,879 Speaker 2: unidentified boys, even though this was an accident, were really responsible. 583 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 2: Carrie Nolty thinks she knows who one of them was, 584 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 2: the son of a tragic figure in history. His mother 585 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 2: was a Borden who struggled with life and then eventually 586 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 2: lost the struggle right across the street from the warehouse. 587 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 8: Something interesting is that Eliza Hathaway Darning is she had 588 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 8: two sons by her first husband, and only one of 589 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 8: them survived, and he would have been maybe ten or 590 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,839 Speaker 8: so at the time of the fire and living potentially 591 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 8: at this house. 592 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:30,720 Speaker 2: No way, remember that Eliza and Lodwick Borden were living 593 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 2: in the house across the street during the fire. Eliza 594 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 2: had one son from a previous marriage, a little boy 595 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 2: named William. He was ten in eighteen forty three, and 596 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 2: he would have been about the same age as the 597 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 2: boys who were suspected of starting the fire. Did Eliza 598 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 2: Borden's son ignite the fire that nearly destroyed Fall River? Maybe, 599 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 2: but we can't confirm it because contemporary newspapers never revealed 600 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 2: the identity of the boys. But it was quite a coincident. 601 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 2: And you know how we feel about coincidences on this show. 602 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,720 Speaker 2: They're kind of bullshit. And the problems for the Bordon 603 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 2: family and for Full River were just starting on this 604 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 2: season of tenfold more wicked on exactly right. 605 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: Lodwick, I mean, his bad luck started much earlier. So 606 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: Eliza was not his first wife. Eliza was his second wife. 607 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: His first wife died. 608 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 7: Eliza Darling had three children back to back to back, 609 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 7: and she was suffering from what we know now today 610 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 7: as postpartum depression, and I think it took a big 611 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 7: toll on her. 612 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 5: And women back then weren't really allowed to talk about 613 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 5: mental health. They probably would have been thrown into an 614 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 5: institution if they mentioned, like, oh, I feel a certain way. 615 00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 8: In May of eighteen forty eight, even though the boom 616 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 8: was happening and her husband was in good circumstance, she 617 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 8: had been expressing fears that everything was going to come 618 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 8: crashing down around them, that they were going to be 619 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 8: found in dire circumstances. 620 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,280 Speaker 2: If you love true crime, check out my books American 621 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 2: Sherlock and All That Is Wicked. I also have an 622 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 2: audio book called The Ghost Club. I can't wait to 623 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 2: tell you the real story about the world's most famous 624 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 2: ghost hunter, who was the head of the world's most 625 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 2: famous ghost club and how he investigated England's most famous 626 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 2: haunted house. This has been an exactly right tenfold more 627 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:59,760 Speaker 2: media production producer Jason Whaling, senior producer Alexis m Rosi, 628 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 2: consulting producer Kyle Ryan, sound designer Eric Friend, composer Curtis Heath. 629 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 2: Additional music Jeremy Buller, artwork Nick Toga. Executive producers Georgia Hartstark, 630 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,240 Speaker 2: Karen Kelgarriff and Danielle Kramer.