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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Hi, guys, Nancy Grace Here.

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Speaker 1: In the last hours, we learned that the Murdog family

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Speaker 1: furnishings are to be auctioned off. This is what we know.

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Speaker 1: A Georgia auction house has announced it will be selling

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Speaker 1: items from the Murdoch family home there in Coleton County,

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Speaker 1: hosted by Liberty Auction. Wow, all those furnishings and now

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Speaker 1: they're going on the block. And there's more as it

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Speaker 1: relates to the Stephen Smith homicide potential homicide investigation, the

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Speaker 1: young teen found dead in the middle of the road

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Speaker 1: near a Murdog property. But first let me introduce to

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Speaker 1: you Dale Carson joining us deal hyperfy, a lawyer out

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Speaker 1: of Jacksonville, but also former fed with the FBI as

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Speaker 1: an FBI agent. You know, Dell having just come from

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Speaker 1: South Carolina courthouse where Murdoch was found guilty on double

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Speaker 1: murder and the deaths of wife Maggie and son Paul.

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Speaker 1: He Murdog was living on a grand scale deal and

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Speaker 1: that's quite the dichotomy compared to his possessions being auctioned

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Speaker 1: off at a public auction. I mean, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if i'd want to buy stuff that belonged to Alex Murloch.

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Speaker 1: But that said, that is quite the reversal of fortune

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Speaker 1: deal Carson, Well, it absolutely is. And you think about this,

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Speaker 1: that money derived from the auction should go to the victims.

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Speaker 1: That money was taken from Bullen from by his father.

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Speaker 1: So you wonder if there's an estate that's set up,

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Speaker 1: which is certainly would be true for the mother and

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Speaker 1: the other his brother, then that money should reasonably go.

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Speaker 1: It becomes the Murdoch estate, go to those people who

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Speaker 1: sufferable loss. Among the items that are listed for sale lamps, dishwear,

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Speaker 1: a leather living room set, pillows monogrammed with Maggie Murdoch's initials.

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Speaker 1: Oh my, would you want to look over and see

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Speaker 1: Maggie Murdoch's pillows. Well, the Bonnie and Clyde car is

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Speaker 1: used now to have people paid a view it, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm looking at the household items. There's a

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Speaker 1: very elaborate set of it looks like really fancy plates

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Speaker 1: with like hunting scenes on them. There's like a giant

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Speaker 1: picture it looks like a deer has been hand painted on.

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Speaker 1: They're scenes from the outdoors. Very very elaborate. But I

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Speaker 1: got a question. Who wants to have Maggie Murdog's engrave

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Speaker 1: pillows in their dinner living room? Well, you know there's

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Speaker 1: that entire underground of serial killer memorabilia, cam murderabilia, murderabilia,

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Speaker 1: murder reabilia. There you go. I write a whole chapter

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Speaker 1: on it called Blood Money, and my very first nonfiction

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Speaker 1: called Objection. Yeah, okay, you're right, you're right. People buy

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Speaker 1: autopsy photos, they buy every odd thing you can think.

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Speaker 1: I've connected to a murder investigation. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: guess part of the dichotomy that I see del Carson

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Speaker 1: is that Murdog's love of money and all that it

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Speaker 1: could buy, and all the opportunity could open up for him,

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Speaker 1: and the power he had in Coleton County, Now it

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Speaker 1: was just all on an auction block. I mean, all

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Speaker 1: that millions of dollars and now strangers are going to

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Speaker 1: own some of his prized possessions belong to him and

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Speaker 1: his wife. I mean, he killed for that money, and

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Speaker 1: now the things that bought are on auction. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: just amazing to me that it would end like this.

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Speaker 1: But then absolute power corrupts, and we see this across

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Speaker 1: our lives. Certainly that if people have too much power.

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Speaker 1: They tend to think the world ought will revolve around them,

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Speaker 1: and largely it does, because we all seem to value

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Speaker 1: money more than we should, family, of course, being the

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Speaker 1: more important. I'm just thinking about everything, just the reverberations

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Speaker 1: of the two murders and how they have affected everyone.

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Speaker 1: As the furnishings. For one, I'm Arelock's three homes, and

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Speaker 1: I produce they'll all be finally a massed together and auctioned.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure this money is, as you said, Del Carson,

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Speaker 1: going to pay off various victims. But they were living

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Speaker 1: so high on the hog deal. I mean three homes,

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Speaker 1: none of them rented out for like rental property or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. There was the Edistow Beach house where

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Speaker 1: Maggie lived, there was the main home, and then there

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Speaker 1: was the hunting lodge where the murders occurred. Well, the

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Speaker 1: remaining sons liable to profit from most of that, because

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Speaker 1: of course the father is still in custody and will

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Speaker 1: be four an extended forever. I thought that's what you

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Speaker 1: were going to say, but you didn't. Well, clearly they're

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Speaker 1: going to be appeals. Whether they bear fruits, there's another

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Speaker 1: question altogether, so at the same time that Murdoch's possessions

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Speaker 1: are being auctioned off, we also know that Buster Murdog

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Speaker 1: is busy right now. He is denying, as he calls them,

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Speaker 1: vicious rumors of his involvement in the death of teen

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Speaker 1: Stephen Smith. There have been a lot of rumors and

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Speaker 1: they were swirling all around the Cornhouse during the trial. Now,

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Speaker 1: for those of you that don't get the Murdoch connection,

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Speaker 1: Stephen Smith's body was found not far away at all

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Speaker 1: from one of the three Murdog homes. He was found

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the road. At the time, it

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Speaker 1: was deemed to be a hit and run, although there

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Speaker 1: was no glass or plastic or any indication left on

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Speaker 1: the road note, tire marks, skid marks, nothing to indicate

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Speaker 1: Stephen Smith had been hit. In the last days, his

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Speaker 1: mother has announced that thanks to a gofund me she launched,

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Speaker 1: she now has enough money to exhume Stephen Smith's body.

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Speaker 1: There have been a lot of rumors connecting Buster Murdog

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Speaker 1: Murdog's soul remaining child to Stephen Smith. Buster Murdoch says

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Speaker 1: that's not true unequivocally. So normally I would say something

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Speaker 1: quip you like methinks thou dost protest too much from

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Speaker 1: Shakespeare that why would Buster Murdoch suddenly jump up and

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Speaker 1: say I didn't have anything to do with that. He

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Speaker 1: hasn't been charged with it, so why deny it? But

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Speaker 1: there have been a lot of rumors, and I think

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Speaker 1: that is why Buster Murdog is stepping forward and denying

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Speaker 1: any any involvement with Stephen Smith. And of course, you

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Speaker 1: know hidden runs are fairly clear. You don't get hit

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Speaker 1: in the back of the head or the front of

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Speaker 1: the head with that matter, without other physical injuries. If

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Speaker 1: the car or truck strikes you from behind, you have

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Speaker 1: damage consistent with a rear strike, and the back of

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Speaker 1: the head gets injured by the hood of the truck,

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Speaker 1: of the car, the reverse his crew. If he's walking

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Speaker 1: toward the car or a truck he gets hit in

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Speaker 1: the abdomen, you're going to see swelling and breakage there.

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Speaker 1: And so an autopsy may have post death autopsy that's

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Speaker 1: ten years old may actually turn shed some light on

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Speaker 1: whether or not it was actually a car strike. And

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Speaker 1: then if it wasn't a hit and run, then you've

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Speaker 1: got to ask yourself, why did the body end up

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Speaker 1: with trauma significant cranial trauma in the middle of the

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Speaker 1: woods near the Murdoch's family home. Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here,

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Speaker 1: at an open house. Violet is suspicious about the circumstances

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Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace Now. According to many sources,

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Speaker 1: the Steven Smith lawyers are saying, no, this is not

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Speaker 1: a witch hunt for bustamrlog. This is trying to get

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Speaker 1: a true cod cause of death on Stephen Smith. They've

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Speaker 1: been very clear about it. And it's disturbing to me

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Speaker 1: when a mom who is in a let's just say,

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Speaker 1: she doesn't have a lot of money to throw around, okay,

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Speaker 1: not a lot of free spending going on there, she

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Speaker 1: raises money on go fund me to do this explanation.

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Speaker 1: A post mortem costs about two thousand dollars. I paid

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Speaker 1: for one and with an American Express card, not too

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Speaker 1: oft too long ago, and speaking God, go ahead, No,

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Speaker 1: and you do get a lot of information from because

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Speaker 1: the third party examination is looking for something. The previous examination,

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Speaker 1: the post mortem, the autopsy wasn't looking for anything specific.

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Speaker 1: So if you're not looking for something, you know, guess what,

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Speaker 1: you're not likely to find it, you know. According to

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Speaker 1: Stephen Smith's mother, Randy Murdoch offers to handle Steven Smith's

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Speaker 1: I guess you would call it a wrongful death. Now,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with that. I think Randy Murdoch, one

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Speaker 1: of the Murdoch adult males, had coached baseball team. I

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Speaker 1: believe that Stephen Smith was on I think Buster may

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Speaker 1: have been on that same team. That maybe why there's

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Speaker 1: that connection that people are gossiping about. But Stephen Smith's

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Speaker 1: mother does say Dell Carson that Randy Murdock came and

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Speaker 1: offered to handle Stephen Smith's wrongful death case. Now that

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Speaker 1: conjures up all the images of Alex Murdog. For instance,

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Speaker 1: after the Mallory Beach boating death, Alex Murdog was at

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Speaker 1: the hospital offering to represent all the people that were

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Speaker 1: the various people that were on the boat that didn't

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Speaker 1: die and according to them, trying to get them to

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Speaker 1: change their stories and not talked to police. Then he

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Speaker 1: shows up at and as the sadder Field family, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'll represent you when Gloria Satterfield fell to her death

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Speaker 1: there at Moselle and both times he stole the money.

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Speaker 1: He's injecting something cases here, Randy is doing it. Sure,

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Speaker 1: that's a real conflict of interest when you think about it.

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Speaker 1: If they were somehow involved in the matter and then

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Speaker 1: they're trying to inject themselves into representing the matter, you

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Speaker 1: can cover anything up you want. And clearly the senior

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Speaker 1: Murdoch did that very thing. I mean, he had information

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Speaker 1: that led to massive settlements that the families were never

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Speaker 1: able to receive. I mean, the whole thing is just

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Speaker 1: a manipulation of power. And I'm not extending that manipulation

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Speaker 1: to Randy Murdog because I don't know that. And before

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Speaker 1: we cast him in a nefarious light, this guy Steven

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Speaker 1: Smith was on the league team that he coached. That's

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Speaker 1: my understanding. It could be an act of actual kindness.

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Speaker 1: Randy Murdog is not Alex Murdoch, absolutely is there. That's right,

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Speaker 1: do you ato was there? And I'm not suggesting anything

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Speaker 1: toward about Randy. I know nothing of that individual. He

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Speaker 1: may be an excellent attorney, but it occurs to me

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Speaker 1: that blood is a lot thicker than water. Now, according

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Speaker 1: to the lawyers that are connected to the excimation of

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Speaker 1: Stephen Smith's body, they say, point blankly, this is what

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Speaker 1: they say, their words, we don't accept. Lawyers for Stephen

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Speaker 1: Smith's family say, we don't accept the original cause of death,

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Speaker 1: that being a hit and run. And they've got to

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Speaker 1: have a reason for that, because even though del Carson,

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Speaker 1: the mom, has cobbled together the money for the excimation

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Speaker 1: a private autopsy, that means somebody you know, like doctor

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Speaker 1: Cyril Wecht or anyone doctor Michael Boden. An independent medical

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Speaker 1: examiner can now come in and be paid to perform

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Speaker 1: a private autosy. But in order to exhume a body,

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Speaker 1: even if the state's not paying for it, a judge

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Speaker 1: still has to approve it. Isn't that true? That's absolutely true.

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Speaker 1: You go to a court and ask for an exhamation order,

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Speaker 1: and clearly all of that takes time and money, and

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Speaker 1: the lawyers that are handling the case would force manage that.

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Speaker 1: But it's sad that a grieving mother should have to

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Speaker 1: exhume her own child to determine the manner of death. Now,

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Speaker 1: the cause may ultimately just be blunt enforced trauma, but

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Speaker 1: the cause is an entirely different matter which relates to

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Speaker 1: anything nefurious, and you can find all sorts of things.

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Speaker 1: You can find defensive wounds. Perhaps this would be limited

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Speaker 1: typically to the bone structure. Today, since it's been ten

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Speaker 1: years and we don't know that the nature of the burial,

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Speaker 1: what was there from aldehyde involved or not. Those kind

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Speaker 1: of things are critical. But clearly you will be able

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Speaker 1: to tell if the investigators in the original case, the

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Speaker 1: first investigators and the autopsy post mortem autopsy really revealed

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Speaker 1: the truth or did they make some gross error and

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Speaker 1: that gross error might lead to an idea by investigators

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Speaker 1: now that a murder actually occurred and not a hit wrong.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be a very very complex autopsy.

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Speaker 1: It's hard enough to do an autopsy without an exhimation

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Speaker 1: being thrown in as a factor. But you've got the

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Speaker 1: eximation and the implications of a body that has been

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Speaker 1: buried for several years. Now the autopsy process, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: from aldehyde, but they're looking for something specific. They're looking for,

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Speaker 1: as you said, maybe defensive wounds on the arms. Are

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Speaker 1: those bruises, I mean they preserved? Can they be preserved? Well,

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Speaker 1: they still be there. You will have to look inside

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Speaker 1: the skin literally and look at the bone structure of

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Speaker 1: the head to determine what, if anything, caused his death.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be a very complicated matter. Now, the

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Speaker 1: mother said at the very beginning, Dale Carson, she did

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Speaker 1: not accept that this was a hit and run. Well,

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Speaker 1: what mother would if it were one of our children,

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Speaker 1: We certainly wouldn't accept that. Well, I mean, if the

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Speaker 1: cops thought it was a hit and run, I believe

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Speaker 1: it was a hit and run, but she never did. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if there's sufficient evidence to support this, but we don't

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Speaker 1: know that there was. And obviously if the mother's having

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Speaker 1: to use a go fund Me account to fund the excavation,

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Speaker 1: they're not in the power system of South Carolina. Time

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Greece. SLED South Carolina Law Enforcement Division

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Speaker 1: based on information that they gathered, as they say, I

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Speaker 1: want to quote it, during the course of the double

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Speaker 1: murder investigation, have reopened the case of Stephen Smith. What

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Speaker 1: about that? You said? Like you said, similar accurrences, right,

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Speaker 1: something happened during the double murder case of Maggie and

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Speaker 1: Paul that made them reopen the Stephen Smith case. I

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Speaker 1: smell right. And it's not just two thousand dollars that's

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Speaker 1: just the price of the autopsy. There's a forty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollar price tag attached to the excimation of her son's

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Speaker 1: body plus a private autopsy. That's a lot of money. Deal, Carson.

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Speaker 1: You can't just charge that on your MasterCard. No, But

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Speaker 1: it's interesting. If FLED reopened the investigation, you think they

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Speaker 1: would fund the exhamation, and you would think they would

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Speaker 1: put an actual emmy in with the private autopsy to

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Speaker 1: review all the evidence if FLED is running the matter,

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Speaker 1: and to have a private as you know, you're going

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Speaker 1: to have a thing where the chain of custody is

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Speaker 1: going to be interesting. It's got to be proven. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not worried about the China custody. I know where

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Speaker 1: his body's been. I want to find out why he

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Speaker 1: was killed. And the hunch that the mother had on

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Speaker 1: day one that her son did not die of a

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Speaker 1: hit and run. Now they're using the fact that he

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Speaker 1: still had his shoes on as proof that that isn't

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Speaker 1: either here nor there for me. Some hit and run

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Speaker 1: victims have on their shoes, and some of them don't.

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Speaker 1: Some of them are literally not out of their shoes.

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Speaker 1: He had his shoes on. But the the routine evidence,

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Speaker 1: and I don't mean standard SOP SEDAD an operating procedure

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Speaker 1: typical evidence, I mean evidence of routine in my mind,

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Speaker 1: is very persuasive. She said her son would never have

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Speaker 1: been walking down the road and limitation something Delle Carson.

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Speaker 1: But I many times I went to the Carlton County Courthouse.

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Speaker 1: Very often. I was driving at night because I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be with the children till they went to bed

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Speaker 1: my children, and then I drive in the night to

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Speaker 1: get there to the courthouse. Those roads delle Carson are

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Speaker 1: pitch dark. They're not any street lights. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: grew up in the country, so I was used to it.

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Speaker 1: But I'm telling you, if I lived there, I would

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Speaker 1: not be walking down the middle of the road because

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Speaker 1: you cannot see your hand in front of you. I'm

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Speaker 1: the mother said day one, he would never walk in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the road. She would know. We know

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Speaker 1: about our children and what they're inclined to do and

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Speaker 1: what they're non inclined to do. And walking down the

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Speaker 1: middle of the road in South Carolina in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the night. Where's his car? Does he have a car?

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Speaker 1: It was three miles away. His car was three miles away.

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Speaker 1: He Stephen was found with a large wound to the

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Speaker 1: right side of his forehead in the lying in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the road, three miles from his car. He

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Speaker 1: also had a dislocated shoulder and cuts to his left hand.

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Speaker 1: Now police initially stated that Stephen Smith's death quote appeared

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Speaker 1: to be a homicide, and autopsy was performed the same

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Speaker 1: day he was found and it was ruled he was

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Speaker 1: the victim of a hit and run, right, I've heard this,

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Speaker 1: and their suggestion is that he was hit by a

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Speaker 1: truck's mirror. Well, if you're going to get hit by

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Speaker 1: a truck's mirror, you're likely to have glass on the ground.

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned, there woes none and clearly there was

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Speaker 1: not an excessive and a normal investigation into the death.

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Speaker 1: There just wasn't. If there had been, we'd have found

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Speaker 1: other evidence. And by the way, you know, when when

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Speaker 1: you're struck by a car, you leave physical data on

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Speaker 1: the car or the vehicle. You leave physical data, not

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Speaker 1: only your DNA, but you leave clothing, in prints, you

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Speaker 1: leave maybe fingerprints you believe, maybe body tissue. So there

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Speaker 1: was no evidence to evidence that I'm aware of that

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Speaker 1: there was a drive towards finding the vehicle that was involved,

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Speaker 1: or interviewing people, or looking for the camera footage that

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Speaker 1: might exist. And as you say, this is a very

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Speaker 1: rural area. I still have questions as to why he

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Speaker 1: was there. Was he picked up by somebody. If he was,

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Speaker 1: then that person is a likely suspect. Now, of course

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Speaker 1: there were any if there is any DNA on his body,

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Speaker 1: that's gone because he would his body would have been

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Speaker 1: cleaned at the funeral home. Correct. I wonder if during

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Speaker 1: the obviously they did X rays. Well don't you think

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Speaker 1: they would actually keep his clothing as evidence that they

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Speaker 1: thought it was initially a murder? And if they didn't,

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Speaker 1: why didn't they? But at this hour we know that

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Speaker 1: Buster Murdog has just released a statement, apparently because the

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Speaker 1: slew of outlets have gotten a hold of him, denying

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Speaker 1: vicious rumors surrounding the death of his classmate Stephen Smith.

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Speaker 1: A lot has been made about the fact that Stephen

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Speaker 1: was openly gay. The allegations connecting him to Murdog, in

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Speaker 1: my mind at this point are just gossip and rumor

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Speaker 1: and any window to the point where Busta Murdog had

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Speaker 1: to come out and deny the rumors. Now, this is

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Speaker 1: after he loses his mother, his brother, his father is

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Speaker 1: now in jail for the rest of his life, and

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Speaker 1: now he is being accused of having something to do

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Speaker 1: with Steven Smith's case. I think the best thing right now,

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Speaker 1: Del Carson is to let the investigation take its course

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Speaker 1: and leave Buster Murdoch out of it. Well, of course,

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Speaker 1: connecting them is going to be difficult. Ten years almost

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Speaker 1: is allowed. Well, what got everybody so stirred up. Is

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Speaker 1: that his body's found close to Mozelle where Sodderfield, Glory

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Speaker 1: of Sadderfield died, where Maggie died, where Paul died. And

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Speaker 1: now you've got the body of a young teen that

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Speaker 1: was a classmate of Buster's dead out in the street.

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Speaker 1: That I mean, people are just putting together those facts

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Speaker 1: and coming up with the theory that Buster was somehow involved.

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Speaker 1: I think it's much too soon to jump to any

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Speaker 1: kind of allegation like that. I would agree, but the

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Speaker 1: allegations are going to p this until the matter. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's not really an allegation. It's gossip. It's gossip, and

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Speaker 1: you can't build a case on gossip. You know what

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Speaker 1: I hate. It's when I would get a case to

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Speaker 1: prosecute and the friends or relatives, their neighbors will go, well,

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Speaker 1: everybody knows he did it. You know what that and

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Speaker 1: a quarter It won't buy you a thing. Everybody knows.

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Speaker 1: That's total bis technical legal term. Everybody knows. That means

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Speaker 1: nothing to me. What it means they haven't concluded all

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Speaker 1: the investigations, is what it means. Because there are always

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Speaker 1: many people who could be responsible for a given crime.

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Speaker 1: And that's the effort of the defense attorneys to point

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Speaker 1: that out where it's applicable, and for the state to

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Speaker 1: wash it away, making it unreliable. And that's the process

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Speaker 1: that we enjoy. One of the unfortunate disadvantages to our

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Speaker 1: criminal justice system is that not many trials anymore. And

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Speaker 1: if you've been in courtrooms, which you certainly have, you

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Speaker 1: look around in the peanut gallery and there's nobody there.

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Speaker 1: We as Americans have found other things to entertain us

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Speaker 1: rather than the criminal trials that are the basis for

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Speaker 1: our democracy. Well, oh, here he goes with the basis

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Speaker 1: of democracy. I'm going to leave on that night before

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Speaker 1: I get you cranked up on the constitution. So the

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Speaker 1: latest is the autopsy is moving forward with Stephen Smith

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Speaker 1: bust to. Murdog has now denied any connection to the

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Speaker 1: death of Smith, his former classmate, and Murdog's furniture and

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Speaker 1: Maggie's pillows are being auctioned off in about seventy two hours.

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Speaker 1: Murder Billie. Yeah, I'm not touching it with a ten

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Speaker 1: foot pall. That's the last thing I want in my

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Speaker 1: house is Maggie Murdock's pillows. Goodbye, What the evil that

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Speaker 1: walked there at one point. Yeah, don't want that around. Bye, buddy,