WEBVTT - The Future of Vaccines: Part Two 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.200 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:15.560 Forward Thinking. Pay there and welcome to Forward Thinking, the 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:18.920 podcast that looks at the future and says, doctor, doctor, 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.720 give me the news. I'm Jonathan Strickland, I'm Lauren, and 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:24.680 I'm Joe McCormick. And this is going to be part 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:28.520 two of our two part series on vaccines. And the 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:31.319 last time we talked about the history of vaccines and 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.599 how they work. And this time we're gonna do what 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:35.519 we do on the show and look at the future 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.159 of the future of vaccines where we can go with 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:42.599 this technology. But if you haven't listened to that original episode, 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:44.239 the one we did last time, you should probably go 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:46.560 back listen to that one first to get the foundation 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.239 that the science basis, yeah, the foundation for the discussion 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.040 we're about to have, and then come back and rejoin 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:56.240 us here for a journey into the great unknown. In fact, 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.920 we're gonna start with some fud, fear, uncertainty, and doubt. 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:02.720 It's true. We mentioned right back at the beginning of 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:07.160 the last episode that I have a theory that news 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:12.520 about developments in vaccine technology kind of gets undersold in 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:16.040 the in the media a little bit because the media 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:20.759 space for vaccine related stories is mostly taken up by 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:25.640 anti vaccine activism controversy. In fact, if you if you 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:30.279 were to do internet searches on things about vaccines, and 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:35.200 you know, just you're you're using good search techniques, a 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:37.120 lot of your results are going to come up with 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:43.360 some very non scientifically minded material that has no real 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:48.800 relationship to any proven foundation. Yeah, if I can be 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:50.400 if I could be straight with all of you guys 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:54.440 out there in podcast world. I suggested this topic specifically 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.320 because over over on a show called What the Stuff, 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:00.280 which is a video show that we run through how 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:05.920 stuff works, we published a video about about misconceptions about 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.800 the flu. Caroline Irvin hosted it. I wrote the script. 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:13.519 It was a really terrific episode, and the comment thread 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:18.440 on YouTube is interesting. I gotta I gotta ask, was 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:22.880 there a sizeable anti vax incredibly sizeable? Interesting? And and 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:27.600 actually even even the pro vaccination faction was being really 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:31.680 quite impolite, which which I don't think was helping the matter. 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.919 And this is part of why the debate gets so hot. Yes, yeah, exactly, 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.840 this this was well, for one, we're literally talking about 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.600 life and death. Yeah, this is not. This is not 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:45.080 some minor issue. This is something that you know, we 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:49.560 as we mentioned in part one, vaccines have saved countless lives, 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:54.919 not just the people they directly saved, but their descendants. Right. So, yeah, 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.720 and also heard immunity, and we'll we'll get into this 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.600 a little bit a little bit later on. But protecting 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:03.520 other people who can't catch a disease from you if 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.160 you don't have that disease, it's a really huge part 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.400 of why vaccination is rad Well, we should address this topic, 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:13.120 I think by starting with the sort of historical facts 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:18.480 about where the current strain of this controversy came from. Now, 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:20.680 one of the things I think we should say at 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:25.079 the outset is that vaccines are medications, and pretty much 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:29.760 every medication that exists can, in some number some subset 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.919 of cases have side effects. And this is true. This 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.760 is true of vaccines as well. But the problem is 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.400 the side effects that have been claimed most of the 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.640 time by the anti vaccination movement are not the real 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.280 side effects, or they've been claimed to happen at a 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.600 much higher frequency than is actually observed in the medical 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:52.320 medical literature. And I think the most commonly cited side 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:58.960 effect has been this perceived association between vaccines and autism. 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:03.160 That's the leavy big one, easily the most the most 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:07.200 covered of all of the controversies, right in the basket. 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:12.320 So uh, as we often do on forward thinking, uh, 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.800 the the vaccine autism connection or lack thereof. As I 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:19.120 wrote in our notes, Uh yeah, the the general thought 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:24.000 was that that because of the publication of a particular paper, 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.200 and I'll get to that in a second, that that 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:31.479 childhood vaccination schedules were somehow not just correlated, but had 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:36.360 a cause effect relationship with the rise in the diagnosis 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:40.919 of autism in children. Uh. This all really got started 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:45.479 back in n seven when Andrew Wakefield, who was a 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:49.800 British surgeon, published a paper in The Lancet allegedly establishing 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:54.000 this link between MMR vaccine. Uh that's mumps, measles and 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:56.919 rubella I believe, uh, and arise in the number of 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:00.880 children being diagnosed with autism. Now the lens it is 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:05.360 a highly respected journal like it's This isn't a blog 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:09.240 that someone has put up and given a vaguely scientific 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.760 or medical sounding name and then treats it as if 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.560 it were a pure reviewed journal. This is top notch 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.560 stuff in the field of medicine. Yes, but even a 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.360 respected journal can make mistakes, absolutely yes, And and in 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.440 this case, since the publication of this article, the research 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:30.360 has been really gone over and through and and it does. 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.840 It does not hold up. The scientific method was not 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:37.840 being used properly. Some people have gone so far as 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:43.000 to accuse Wakefield of knowingly misrepresenting data, not just cherry picking, 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:47.240 but misrepresenting. There were procedural errors. There were undisclosed financial 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:51.040 conflicts of interests. Essentially, Wakefield was getting money from parties 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:55.880 that had a vested interest in alternatives to vaccination. So 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:00.800 this was a big deal and eventually took longer than 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.880 many of us would have liked. The scandal cost Wakefield 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:07.440 his medical license in the UK, and the Lancet retracted 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.800 the paper and said, uh, this it was a mistake 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:12.560 to ever publish it in the first place. We don't 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:14.760 stand by the results as anymore and they don't seem 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:18.280 to be true. However, when a cat is let out 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:21.880 of a bag, the bag is no longer filled with cat, 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:26.039 and it's even worse if that cat goes on to 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:30.320 have many, many litters of kittens. Yes, including people who 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:36.479 have a visible place in the public consciousness, like people 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:41.920 who have a platform upon which to continuously promote this 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:45.920 idea of a connection between vaccines and autism. Yeah. This, 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:47.760 this has been a factor in the history of this 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.000 debate because even though the medical establishment considers this link 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:55.400 between vaccines and autism completely debunked, uh, it has had 0:06:55.480 --> 0:07:01.400 some very popular celebrity endorsements. And you guys know him, 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:05.919 you've heard him. I mean, we're not going to name yeah, 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:08.080 mostly because I won't be able to complete the rest 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.720 of this podcast. I will just be drooling at and 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:15.120 foaming and yelling. Yeah. But but the but the absolute 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.800 fact of the matter is I'm and I'm sure you've 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.440 heard it before, but here it again from us. There 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:27.240 have been studies, peer reviewed, well researched, like good science 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.800 studies that have shown that there is no link between 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.880 vaccines and autism exactly. It just does not exist, as 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.560 far as a scientific method can tell, right, Like, as 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:42.800 as certain as we can be about anything, at this point, 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:48.400 we can be certain vaccines do not lead to autism. 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.760 There there are other theories about why the diagnosis for 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:55.559 autism has been on the rise, largely due to things 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.880 like redefining what the autism spectrum is autistic spectrum, I 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.040 should say. And by redefining it, suddenly, if you have 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.000 a wider net, what do you know, more people fall 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:08.800 into that definition. If you're paying attention to these to 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.119 these poor people who otherwise would have slipped through the cracks, 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.160 that of course you're going to find more of them. 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.920 Uh So. And furthermore, okay, adding to this, adding to 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:23.040 this problem of celebrities, uh, misinforming the public about this issue, 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:27.640 you have a few misguided people in the government who 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.920 have accused the CDC of destroying or covering up evidence 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:35.600 that vactsines cause autism. And if you've heard about that, 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:39.960 these accusations have been proven to be completely unfounded. Uh. 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:44.400 Data from the studies that these governmental people were talking 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:48.000 about was neither destroyed nor covered up. It's there, you 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.280 can you can go look at it for yourself. Um. 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:54.800 And furthermore, every study that has been conducted that potentially 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.800 indicated a link between vaccines and autism has been shown 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:02.160 to have used really shoddy statistics to bend the data 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:06.439 to their to their wishes. You again largely cherry picking information, 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:10.280 ignoring anything that does not back up your claim and 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.080 only picking the stuff that does seem to back up 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.920 your claim. That's a that's bad science for anything, right, 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:19.720 not just with vaccines, but any kind of science where 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:24.680 you are you feel motivated to only present the information 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:27.840 that supports your hypothesis, that's bad science. It's not the 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:29.840 way science is supposed to work. And that's why we 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:33.120 have the pure review process so that others can come 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:37.600 in and really scrutinize the work that you've done to 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:41.240 make sure that that hasn't happened. Sometimes it even happens unconsciously. 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:43.520 I'm not necessarily saying that people do it on purpose 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.480 all the time. And sometimes you can look at numbers 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.520 and think that they're leading in one way, and you 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:51.880 know if perhaps your sample size is too small, or 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.080 or you've you've assumed a variable is in play that 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.520 is not, or there there are variables that you did 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:01.000 not take into account. Sure, sure, absolutely, like lots lots 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.480 of completely honest mistakes can happen in this kind of situation. Now, 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:08.560 at the end of the day, not vaccinating people leads 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:13.880 to disease outbreaks and potentially to fatalities. As an example, 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.360 UH in California back in there was an outbreak of 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:22.360 pertussis also known as whooping cough. Whooping cough had not 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:28.120 been seen in any large numbers for sixty years in California, 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:32.760 and then there's an outbreak of more than nine thousand cases. 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:39.480 So that also included ten infant deaths. Right, And when 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:42.480 we talk about herd immunity, part of that is our 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.959 responsibility to be vaccinated against diseases, so we don't pass 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:47.720 them onto people who are too young to have been 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:53.280 vaccinated already, yeah, or who have compromised immune systems vaccines. Yeah. 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.560 So I'm getting a little head up about this. I 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:57.840 apologize for that, but this is one of those those 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.800 those topics that are really get very passionate about. So 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.560 at any rate um vaccines and autism, there is no 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:09.480 credible scientific link between the two. This is not the 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:14.560 only thing that vaccines have been um allegedly connected to. 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:18.760 Another one is type one diabetes. This was popularized by 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:24.040 Dr J. Bartholow Klassen, who who had claimed that the 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:28.040 rise and diabetes diagnoses in the US were tied to 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.800 childhood vaccination schedule. So very similar to the autism story 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.199 and also very similar to the autism story. Other scientific 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.640 studies do not seem to bear this out at all. 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.000 One of the ones I looked at was a study 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:44.120 that followed twenty one thousand four children over the course 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:47.679 of ten years after they had received the hip conjugate 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:52.080 vaccine the hib conjugate vaccine, and found that there was 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:56.400 no greater incidents in diabetes than a control group of 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.679 twenty two thousand, five d fifty seven children who did 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.720 not receive the vaccination. In other words, there's no rise 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:06.240 in diabetes in the test group compared to the control group. 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.440 That's a pretty decent sample size. I was about to say, yeah, 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:11.720 that that's what you like to call a good sample size. 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:14.520 And of course that's not the only study that has 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:18.000 been conducted in terms of vaccines and diabetes. That was 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.839 just the one that I had looked at too choose 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:24.800 as an example. But uh, again, there does not seem 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:29.360 to be any credible scientific link between the two. Uh. 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:33.640 There's also the fear about vaccines containing toxins, heavy metals, 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:37.600 for example, or formaldehyde. Yeah, yeah, because there are now 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:42.120 some vaccines like we we've outlawed some of these chemicals 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.120 to be used in vaccines, even though at the levels 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:50.360 that they were in in vaccines, they were well below toxic, right, 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.199 because because there's certain chemicals that you can you can 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.240 come into contact with and not have any toxicity. There's 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.760 no toxicity involved. You have to have more than that. Yeah, 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.000 if you eat enough nutmet it can kill you. Guys, 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.160 don't eat too much nutmeg. Yeah, the don't like, drink, 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.400 don't like, don't don't like, just chew on nutmeg all days. 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.920 It's for you. Or like, if you eight five pounds 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.200 of apple seeds, then you might have enough cyanide to 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:17.480 actually do some damage to you, but otherwise the levels 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.959 are so low that they aren't toxic. That was the 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:24.160 very case of the materials that are in vaccines. Um, 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.800 this is just a misunderstanding of what toxic means. Yeah, 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:32.720 because of course formaldehyde is toxic. Of course, mercury is 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:36.040 a bad thing to drink, right, but there are certain 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.360 levels that you can encounter that aren't going to harm you. 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.120 In fact, when it comes to things like formaldehyde, our 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:46.160 own metabolic processes create formaldehyde right in your body. Yeah, 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.239 and more so than you would find in any vaccine. 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.160 So the thing that drives me nuts in this is 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.640 when people are will say, like, oh, the same chemicals 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:58.439 that are in formaldehyde are in this, uh, this material 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:00.800 that's inside of vaccines. Have you look to see what 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.920 other stuff these chemicals are in. I mean, they're in 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.600 like lots of things. You don't understand chemistry is what 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.280 what this is telling me? Yeah, but at any rate, 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:15.280 that's another, you know, another fear that is largely unfounded. Clearly, 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:19.440 any substance that we're introducing to our body, Uh, there 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:21.360 needs to be a great deal of testing to make 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:25.360 certain that it's not toxic. But these are materials that 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:30.240 at these levels we know aren't toxic. Um another fear 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.480 that vaccines caused the very disease they're meant to prevent. 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:35.840 In other words, you go in, you get a vaccination, 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.720 and then two days later you've come down with whatever 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.680 it is you got vaccinated against. Clearly the vaccine did 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:43.560 it right. If you don't know what you're talking about, 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.320 this makes sense. Yeah, sure, well, and we talked a 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.040 little bit about this one in the previous episode. But yeah, 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.560 there's um. The way the vaccines work is that it 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:56.560 takes a while for your body to take the information 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.160 in the vaccine and to extrapolate it out and build 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.960 up a resistance to that disease, right, And in that 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.840 time between when it gets the information and when it's ready, 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.720 you could still catch that disease. You could still encounter 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.960 it and end up becoming sick because your body isn't 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.360 in the ready state yet, right, right. And we should 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.640 say that that it's not that this has never in 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:20.160 the history of vaccines happened. No, it did happen once. 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.360 It happened one time, literally one time, really one patient 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:25.880 the oral polio vaccine, which is no longer used in 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.600 the United States. But yeah, that's the one time there 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.760 was a recorded case where this actually happened. In all 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.600 the other cases, the reactions that a person had to vaccines, 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.480 they were something else. It wasn't that they were caught 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.600 the disease they got in the vaccine. Sometimes there's a 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.600 complication because the immune system reacts in a way that 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:48.000 is far too uh too strong, and as a result, 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:52.520 someone can suffer something like seizures or or brain damage 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.080 even in some cases. But it's super rare for that 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.240 to happen. But it's not the disease that did it. 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:02.840 It's the body's own immune system went haywire, uh well, 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.240 And in the case of the flu, we should say 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.360 there are there's okay, there's a lot of different strains 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.560 of the flu going around at any given times. So 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:13.680 if you catch the flu after you've received a vaccine, uh, 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:16.680 it could just be a different strain. Because the vaccine 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.840 for the flu that's sent out every year is made 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.800 up of is made to target two to four strains 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.440 that global researchers have guessed is going to be are 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.720 are going to be the most active in the coming year, 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.880 And they're making real educated guesses, you guys. So it's 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.480 like they're looking at pipe. Yeah it's not like a 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:40.840 dice roll, but yeah, they might be looking at a 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.960 big pie chart, right and saying like this, this particular 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:46.640 strain of the virus has this percentage chance of being 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.120 one of the really prevalent ones this year. Yeah, they're 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:53.200 looking yeah, they're they're looking at Yeah, they're looking at 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:57.080 patient data from from people around the world, and uh, 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.960 but but you know, it's it's completely possible to catch 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.440 a different strain what was in the vaccine. We've seen 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:05.720 outbreaks of flu where it would end up being a 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:08.920 strain of flu that everyone was fairly certain was going 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.800 to be more or less inert and turn out that 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:16.360 they were wrong. It does happen. Um, So anyway, that's 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.600 that's a list of things that people often fear are 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:22.520 bad or can go wrong with vaccines. Now, there are 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.640 some things that can go wrong, you want to address them. Sure, 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:28.960 we've mentioned a couple of times already that, like all medications, 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:33.240 vaccines can have side effects. They typically the approved vaccines 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:35.920 that are given out are going to have an extremely 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:41.159 low incidence of of catastrophic side effects, though maybe you 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:43.840 know one in a million type things can go very wrong. 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.399 The standard side effects you might get are like soreness 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.560 at the injection site, something maybe a low grade fever 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.240 depending upon the vaccination that you received, And that's your 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:58.320 body's immune system kick. But yeah, and obviously if you 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.399 are someone who has a compromised une system, it could 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.760 be much more serious than that, which is why you 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.800 know most vaccines you would never administer to someone who 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.560 has that kind of condition. Sure, you can't have allergies 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.959 to certain ingredients in vaccines, Yeah, and that can that 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.639 can be pretty scary. I mean, as someone who has 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:20.480 I have a couple of pretty severe allergies not to 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.080 anything that's in vaccines. As far as I know anyway. 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.040 But uh, you know, it's one of those things where 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.320 the reaction is pretty quick after you're introduced to the thing, 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.440 and it can be pretty terrifying. But again that's that's 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:36.479 your body misidentifying something as being super duper dangerous, so 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:40.040 it goes into hyper attack mode. You stay away from 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.800 the shellfish vaccine. Yeah, for me, it's a lobster and alcohol. 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.399 Those are the two things I can't have because I 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.000 will go into anaphlyctic shock. It's exciting, it's a fun 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:50.679 trick to do it parties, but I can only do 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:55.119 it once. Um. One other problem that we sometimes encounter 0:18:55.160 --> 0:19:00.200 with vaccines is access right and then absolutely you know this. 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.840 This is sometimes in the case of shortages where we 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.879 literally do not have enough vaccines for the populations that 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.639 are most in need of them. Sometimes it has to 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.240 do with the vaccines are not in the part of 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:14.880 the world where we need them to be right, like 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:16.920 the the outbreak may be in one part of the world, 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.080 and all the vaccine production centers could be in a 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.320 different part of the world. Um. Part of that issue 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:26.560 is that it's it's difficult to ship vaccines. A lot 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:28.400 of vaccines have to be kept at a very low 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:32.360 temperature in order for them to remain viable. And we'll 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.040 talk about this a little bit later when we're talking 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.639 about the future of vaccines. Not all places in the 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:43.440 world have temperature controlled storage. So while you could argue, hey, 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:45.520 why is this even an issue. We have vaccines for 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.520 that disease, Well, if we can't get the vaccine to 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.160 the people who need it, then there's still very much 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:54.159 a problem. So in that case, the problem isn't so 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:56.399 much with the vaccine itself and what it is, but 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:58.359 rather how much of it do we have and do 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:00.359 we have it in the right place at the right time. 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.960 But there's a serious issue with vaccines, has nothing to 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:08.000 do with autism or diabetes or anything along those lines. Now, 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.280 let's go on and talk about some of the future 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:14.000 of vaccines because there's some really exciting stuff. Oh yeah, yeah. 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:15.960 And and to to start us out, I just wanted 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.440 to give a shout out to genome sequencing because being 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:21.720 able to take a look at the entire genetic code 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.960 of a bacterium or virus has let researchers start to 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:29.240 make again those very educated guesses about sequences of code 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:33.600 that could work as antigens in the future. Um. It's 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:37.159 sometimes called reverse vaccinology, like trying to create a vaccine 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.840 out of something that that you're you're not sure will work, 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:43.119 but this might be the right puzzle piece to plug 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:47.560 in there. Um uh. There's also been study into the 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.920 genes that turn on in microbes when those microbes switch 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:54.880 from being passive to being active when they become virulent. 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:57.680 That is, and um we talked a little bit about 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.880 that one in our episode about antibiotics and back to communication. 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:05.320 That one was called forget going viral Bacterial communication is awesome. 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:10.159 Who came up with that title? It's Jonathan? Was it me? 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.639 I can only assume that probably was me. It wasn't me. 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:17.520 I was the one who called the operation plowshare. That's 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:22.600 the bomb. Oh my goodness. I'm not proud of that. 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.800 But uh that that episode about bacterial communication came out 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:27.480 in September. If you would like to go check that 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:32.359 one out. Um so, so, yeah, genome sequencing good good technology. 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:34.080 It's not like a new technique the way that a 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:35.240 lot of these others are going to be. But I 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:39.879 just wanted to say, hey, thanks Jeans. Yeah. So some 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:43.040 other stuff that's being that's under research and development right 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:46.080 now and various companies around the world. And vaccines are 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:49.040 big business, right We're talking you know, as part of 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:52.359 the pharmaceutical business. It's it is and well, and I 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:54.159 did want to say that, like that's part of the 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.560 reason that some people distrust vaccines because it's big pharma, 0:21:57.680 --> 0:21:59.840 and you know, and I get it. I get that 0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:02.840 it it's a scary industry. And and there are some 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:06.560 downsides to write, like there's some some diseases that big 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.720 Pharma might not be that motivated to go out and 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:12.320 develop vaccines for because there's not a lot of money 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:15.200 back there. If you're talking about diseases that largely affect 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:19.920 the developing world versus the developed world, there might be 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:23.000 this it's pretty grim to talk about this, but there 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:28.120 might be this you know, investment versus reward discussion. Yeah. Yeah, Well, 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:30.600 and and actually that was that was an issue with 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.399 Big Pharma and the flu vaccine for a number of years. 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:36.879 It was definitely like a like a loss item for them, 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:39.080 for for most companies for a very long time. There's 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:43.960 a couple of newer vaccines that are they're they're able 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:49.480 to incorporate more strains of the flu in a single vaccine, 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:51.880 and so those are actually like capable of making money 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:54.879 because you can sell them to richer populations as like 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:57.320 an upgrade sort of thing. But but for the for 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:01.640 the most part, certainly the flu vaccine and some other 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:05.800 vaccines as well are are not big money makers. These 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:08.000 are not the things that big farm is going out 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:11.879 and looking at to to make all of their Boku bucks. Fortunately, 0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:15.680 there's still quite a few uh labs out there that 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:20.920 are actively looking into improving our processes with vaccines. Yeah, yeah, 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:24.040 it is right, right, it's it's it's a complicated price issue, 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:26.359 is basically what I wanted to say. That's a good point, 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:28.840 it's an excellent point. So one of those one of 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:32.840