Speaker 1: I get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth Podcast. The Get Back, Get Back, Get
Speaker 1: Back to where You once belonged. Addition, as I visited
Speaker 1: with newcomer Trent Taylor, who is looking to get back
Speaker 1: to the way he performed as a rookie in San
Speaker 1: Francisco before injuries halted his NFL career. And after my
Speaker 1: conversation with Trent, I'll talk to Nick Shook, a writer
Speaker 1: for NFL dot Com, who recently had a very interesting
Speaker 1: story about the most disruptive pass rushers in the NFL
Speaker 1: last year. T J Watt of the Steelers was number one,
Speaker 1: Joey Bosa the Chargers was number two, and Bengals newcomer
Speaker 1: Trey Hendrickson was number three. We'll discuss that, plus get
Speaker 1: Nick's thoughts on the Bengals offensive line improvements and the
Speaker 1: likelihood that Joe Burrow will ultimately become one of the
Speaker 1: best quarterbacks in the NFL. The Bengals Booth Podcast, entered
Speaker 1: by Bud Light Seltzer, refresh the game and here's a
Speaker 1: quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of
Speaker 1: this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer
Speaker 1: by subscribing on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, or pod Bean.
Speaker 1: It's the greatest thing since the Jungle to the Hall Rally.
Speaker 1: In about two weeks, Saturday, June nineteenth, hundreds of Bengals
Speaker 1: fans from all over the country are heading to the
Speaker 1: Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton to make the
Speaker 1: case that more Bengals should be enshrined, most notably Ken
Speaker 1: Anderson and Ken Riley. From ten to twelve that morning,
Speaker 1: there will be an event at masselin Washington High School,
Speaker 1: where Paul Brown's coaching career began, and then from one
Speaker 1: to three, a big rally will take place in a
Speaker 1: party tent on the grounds of the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: Former Bengals will be involved in person and virtually, and
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame is planning to have a special
Speaker 1: Cincinnati Bengals exhibit. The hope is that the event will
Speaker 1: influence the nine voters on the Senior Committee, and the
Speaker 1: rally is already getting a lot of publicity. But regardless
Speaker 1: of that, it's sure to be a great time for
Speaker 1: everybody that makes the trip. They've even arranged for discounted
Speaker 1: hotel rooms and Hall of Fame tickets. For more information
Speaker 1: and to RSVP for the free events. Look up Bengal
Speaker 1: Jims BTR on social media again, that's Bengal Jims BTR
Speaker 1: on Twitter or Facebook. And who day to all the
Speaker 1: Bengals fans who are planning to attend the Jungle to
Speaker 1: the Hall rally. Now let's get to Trent Taylor. When
Speaker 1: the Bengals held the recent rookie minicamp, most of the
Speaker 1: attention went to number one draft pick Jamar Chase, But
Speaker 1: while watching video and looking at photos of number one,
Speaker 1: some Bengals fans were surprised and miffed to see another
Speaker 1: wide receiver wearing AJ Green's old number eighteen. As it
Speaker 1: turned out, it wasn't a rookie. It was Trent Taylor,
Speaker 1: who spent the last four years with the San Francisco
Speaker 1: forty nine ers. The former Louisiana tech star, who led
Speaker 1: the nation in receiving yards as a senior, promptly signed
Speaker 1: with the Bengals after the mini camp and is now
Speaker 1: wearing the number eleven. Taylor is undersized at five eight,
Speaker 1: but had an excellent rookie year as a slot receiver
Speaker 1: in San Francisco before encountering back and foot injuries. I
Speaker 1: spoke to the twenty seven year old this week, Prent.
Speaker 1: After four years in San Francisco, where you built some
Speaker 1: great friendships, describe what it's like to start over with
Speaker 1: a new team. It's an exciting time for sure. It's
Speaker 1: you know, kind of you do your four years in
Speaker 1: high school, four years in college, and I did my
Speaker 1: four years in San Francisco, so I just naturally time
Speaker 1: to move on. I guess it just kind of worked
Speaker 1: out like that. But yeah, it's an exciting time, like
Speaker 1: all it always is starting with a new team. Right now,
Speaker 1: I'm just getting no all my teammates, meeting everybody and
Speaker 1: all the coaches and everything, and so far, so good.
Speaker 1: Everybody seems like cool, good people. So yeah, just still
Speaker 1: getting to know everybody right now. George Kittle posted a
Speaker 1: heartfelt tribute to you on Instagram after you signed with
Speaker 1: the Bengals, saying it's hard to think about not lacing
Speaker 1: up the cleats with you next year. Sounds like the
Speaker 1: two of you built a very strong bond. What did
Speaker 1: that message mean? Yeah, so it started. We were training
Speaker 1: together before the NFL Combine and all that coming out
Speaker 1: of college. That's where we first met met each other
Speaker 1: and out there in Frisco, Texas, we just became great friends.
Speaker 1: We would always, like on the weekends, we would go
Speaker 1: to the Dallas Stars hockey games. We would do whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, we would hang out. That's when we started
Speaker 1: become great friends. And then we both got drafted to
Speaker 1: the forty nine ers. He was at the early fifth
Speaker 1: round pick and I was, uh the late fifth round pick.
Speaker 1: So it was you know, an instant like we face
Speaker 1: behind each other, streaming and yelling and uh so, yeah,
Speaker 1: all of our time in San Francisco together, we were roommates. Um,
Speaker 1: and just like continue to grow as great friends together. Um.
Speaker 1: You know I was in his wedding, He's gonna be
Speaker 1: in my well. I actually had a COVID wedding this
Speaker 1: past year and he was the the one single guest
Speaker 1: that I had there with me, along with his wife, Claire.
Speaker 1: UM So yeah, we um definitely created a lifelong friendship together. UM.
Speaker 1: So it kind of sucks to be able to tap
Speaker 1: to leave friends like that, but you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's part of the game. And you know, we both
Speaker 1: have houses in Nashville now. Um, so we'll always be friends. UM.
Speaker 1: Continuing on from this his rise to start them must
Speaker 1: be awesome for you to be that close to him.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's it's been amazing to watch that because
Speaker 1: you know, after our rookie year, we both had forty
Speaker 1: three catches. I think, you know, we tied with catches.
Speaker 1: So the bet, like I was like, I bet you
Speaker 1: like two hundred bucks. You know, I'll have more catches
Speaker 1: than you this year. And that's like when he actually
Speaker 1: broke the tight Ends all time record for receptions or
Speaker 1: he broke the yards record, I think, not receptions, but
Speaker 1: that's when he like completely started going off and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I kind of regret regret doing that,
Speaker 1: but uh yeah, it's been so much fun watching him
Speaker 1: progress and just become the big superstar that he is
Speaker 1: these days. Did he hold you to the bat? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I paid him. Yeah, we're talking to a Trent Taylor.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned forty three catches as a rookie. You
Speaker 1: got off to a great start and then the injuries
Speaker 1: kicked in. What have you had to overcome? You know?
Speaker 1: Rookie year went good for me. I had I had
Speaker 1: back surgery going into my second year. So my third
Speaker 1: year training camp, I fractured my foot and I was
Speaker 1: only supposed to miss like one or two games starting
Speaker 1: the season, but then there's an infection in my foot.
Speaker 1: So my foot got infected which caused me which they
Speaker 1: only thought it was gonna like take three or four
Speaker 1: more weeks, but it actually ended up being I missed
Speaker 1: the whole season because the infection in my foot, it
Speaker 1: was like really hard for them to get it out,
Speaker 1: so a bunch of surgeries happened for them to make
Speaker 1: that happen. So I literally like the whole season I
Speaker 1: was just sitting on the couch with my foot, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to get it back healthy, getting the infection out
Speaker 1: of it. And that's when we went to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: So it was a super tough year for me just
Speaker 1: to have to sit back and watch my guys go
Speaker 1: to the Super Bowl without me. When it was like
Speaker 1: something that was out of my control, which is like
Speaker 1: an infection in my foot, you know, it'd be different,
Speaker 1: it feels, because like I injured myself playing football. But
Speaker 1: just the fact that it was like a doctor kind
Speaker 1: of messed up my foot a little bit, and that's
Speaker 1: the reason that it held me out. That one stung
Speaker 1: a little bit. So just some unfortunate events for me
Speaker 1: like that in San Francisco. So it was kind of
Speaker 1: a tough ride. So I'm ready for a fresh start
Speaker 1: here in Cincinnati. That foot injury sounds like really scary stuff.
Speaker 1: I think anybody that followed Alex Smith's leg injury knows
Speaker 1: how serious an infection can be after surgery. Were you
Speaker 1: in danger of losing the foot or anything dire like that. No,
Speaker 1: it was nothing crazy like that. But it was just
Speaker 1: like they would think that the infection was going to
Speaker 1: be clear, So then we waited a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: and then they go back and look at it again
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh wow, it's still in the bone.
Speaker 1: So we had to like explore a bunch of different methods.
Speaker 1: I had. I had a pickline in my arm um
Speaker 1: injecting myself with um antibiotics for six weeks. I think, wow.
Speaker 1: Um so that yeah, that was just a miserable time
Speaker 1: dealing with that. But um yeah, nothing like what Alex
Speaker 1: Smith was dealing with out That's that's just a whole
Speaker 1: other level. We're talking to Trent Taylor. So you signed
Speaker 1: with the Bengals after getting a tryout at the rookie Minicamp.
Speaker 1: A few weeks ago, and it was interesting because there
Speaker 1: were twenty two players there and you were the only
Speaker 1: one with real NFL experience. Did it feel a little
Speaker 1: bit strange and did the rookies know that you were
Speaker 1: an accomplished NFL vet? Uh? Yeah, it definitely felt weird,
Speaker 1: Like you can kind of tell, just like talking to
Speaker 1: guys and working out with guys, um, guys who you know,
Speaker 1: know how the league works, and guys who are completely
Speaker 1: new to it. Um. But I don't think I don't
Speaker 1: think anybody really knew that I was a veteran um
Speaker 1: because like towards the end, when we were catching punts,
Speaker 1: it got brought up somehow and everybody was like, oh, dang,
Speaker 1: like you you used to be with the forty nine ers.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I've done this before, man. But uh
Speaker 1: but yeah, it was It was definitely a different time
Speaker 1: for me. You know, something I've never experienced, having to,
Speaker 1: you know, travel around and like try out for a
Speaker 1: team like that. Um. But I'm glad we made it
Speaker 1: work here in Cincinnati. Now, did they have you go
Speaker 1: through that tryout more or less just to see if
Speaker 1: you were healthy because obviously, you know, you can put
Speaker 1: on the tape and see what you've accomplished in the NFL. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, yeah, it was normal. Um I'm
Speaker 1: glad that I got to do it, you know with
Speaker 1: the rookies, because usually, like a workout, you kind of
Speaker 1: go and you're out there by yourself just running routes
Speaker 1: while while they watch you, and it's just you know,
Speaker 1: it's a lot more fun whenever you're running routes with
Speaker 1: other guys and you have actual quarterbacks throwing to you. Um,
Speaker 1: so yeah, I was I was able to join in
Speaker 1: with the rookies and do it that way. It's just
Speaker 1: it's a lot easier now. The other thing that caused
Speaker 1: a bit of a stir was the fact that you
Speaker 1: were wearing AJ Green's number eighteen. You switched to number
Speaker 1: eleven after signing with the Bengals. But were you amused
Speaker 1: or annoyed by the outrage that people seem to have.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it was pretty funny, honestly, Like I never
Speaker 1: even thought about it. I just you know, once it
Speaker 1: was over, I guess they like closted pictures of me
Speaker 1: wearing eighteen at the rookie mini camp, and um, I
Speaker 1: just opened up my Twitter and there's like all these
Speaker 1: people who are so angry with me for some reason.
Speaker 1: I'm just like so confused. But I mean aj Greens,
Speaker 1: I mean, he's the man. He's he's a complete baller.
Speaker 1: So you know, I understand where they're coming from. That's
Speaker 1: that's how fans are. It is what it is. But um,
Speaker 1: I definitely knew not to keep number eighteen on my chest.
Speaker 1: I knew that for sure. Well, eleven looked good, it practiced.
Speaker 1: Last last week, we're talking to Tred Taylor. The Bengals
Speaker 1: lost Alex Ericson in free agency, and he's had the
Speaker 1: role the last few years of being kind of a
Speaker 1: backup slot receiver to Tyler Boyd and then obviously the
Speaker 1: primary punt returner. And you have performed those roles in
Speaker 1: the past for San Francisco. Do you see this as
Speaker 1: kind of a natural replacement for the job he had. Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like that that could easily become my role. Um.
Speaker 1: I think I proved myself as a prim returner, a
Speaker 1: guy who can get the job done in this league,
Speaker 1: so um, I mean I obviously got to go prove
Speaker 1: it every day, but um yeah, I feel like that
Speaker 1: could be a good role for me and obviously TV
Speaker 1: Tyler Boyd is a I mean, he's a great athlete
Speaker 1: and a baller obviously in that position. So uh yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll see what happens with that. But um, the offense
Speaker 1: here is a lot is a lot better for me,
Speaker 1: you know, for a guy like me, Because in San Francisco,
Speaker 1: we had Kyli Huschek at tied end, which would take
Speaker 1: our at fullback, which would take a lot of time
Speaker 1: from that third receiver spot, which Jews. He's like obviously
Speaker 1: a baller at fullback and can do a lot of
Speaker 1: things for your offense. But we don't have a fullback
Speaker 1: here at Cincinnati, which is good for that third receiver. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot more opportunities for guys like me
Speaker 1: to come into the game and make play. Yeah, no question,
Speaker 1: more three receiver sets than any other team in the
Speaker 1: NFL over the last couple of years. What stood out
Speaker 1: to you, Yeah, what stood out to you about the
Speaker 1: wide receiver group in the first few days of OTAs.
Speaker 1: My parents asked me about it and I told him,
Speaker 1: I said, we might have the best receiver group in
Speaker 1: the NFL. I believe if if obviously you know, Jamar
Speaker 1: Chase can come in and be a baller like he
Speaker 1: did all throughout his college years, which I believe definitely will.
Speaker 1: Um we're looking at like a pretty lethal groove at receiver.
Speaker 1: So I'm just I'm excited to be a part of
Speaker 1: it and to get this offense role. Does the possibility
Speaker 1: of playing with Joe Burrow excite you? Yeah? Obviously, you
Speaker 1: know you you watched him his rookie year, and uh,
Speaker 1: he obviously has what it takes to be a baller
Speaker 1: in this league for a long time. You know, He's
Speaker 1: got the right mentality. And yeah, so I'm excited to
Speaker 1: work with a guy like that. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: just the fire that he brings to the game is
Speaker 1: something that isn't normal as a quarterback, I don't think. Um. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be fun playing with him for sure. In December,
Speaker 1: the Bengals host your former team. Have you given any
Speaker 1: thought to what it'll be like to line up against
Speaker 1: the forty nine ers. Yeah, I'm I'm really excited about
Speaker 1: that one. I've already joked with you know, the strength
Speaker 1: staff over there and some of the coaches. I say,
Speaker 1: if I scored, So I'm I'm throwing the ball at
Speaker 1: you on the sideline. I mean, yeah, I'll definitely you know,
Speaker 1: have a nice little chip on my shoulder for that one. Um,
Speaker 1: hopefully I ball out and get to shove it in
Speaker 1: their face. But I mean, it's all love at the
Speaker 1: end of the at the end of the day, I
Speaker 1: respect all those guys over there, Um, Kyle Shanahan, John Lynch,
Speaker 1: the whole, um, the whole coaches that they're all great
Speaker 1: people and I definitely appreciate everything they did for me
Speaker 1: and my time there. So it's all love at the
Speaker 1: end of the day. All right, last thing for Trent Taylor.
Speaker 1: I was glancing at your bio and you were a
Speaker 1: great all around athlete in high school. That's not all
Speaker 1: that unusual for an NFL football player. But in your case,
Speaker 1: did you really take up tennis as a high school
Speaker 1: senior and make it to the state double final? Yes,
Speaker 1: that that is true. Um, yeah, we so, me and
Speaker 1: my quarterback, and you know, we were both just natural
Speaker 1: athletes ourselves. Dakota Duran is his name, but uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we always played tennis for fun. We're like, dude, senior year, like,
Speaker 1: let's just join the team. It will be a blast.
Speaker 1: And so we were doubles partners together, and we made
Speaker 1: it all the way to the to the state championship match.
Speaker 1: You know, we we beat everyone throughout the state tournament,
Speaker 1: made it to the finals, and got beat um in
Speaker 1: the championship game, which I think we I think the
Speaker 1: whole tennis community like hated us so much. You were known,
Speaker 1: we were known as like the two football guys because
Speaker 1: you know, we just went to the state championship in
Speaker 1: football that year, and so everyone knew us pretty well.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, we were known as like the football guys.
Speaker 1: That's why everyone knew us as at the state tennis tournament,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, we kind of had we had
Speaker 1: a little edge about us. You know, we would talk trash,
Speaker 1: you know, poor kids and tennis. You know, they probably
Speaker 1: haven't seen much of that, but we got We talked
Speaker 1: trash to a lot of them, and I think we
Speaker 1: got in most people's heads. I think that's why we
Speaker 1: won most of the games, honestly, which it was probably
Speaker 1: like not nice at all, but you know that's how
Speaker 1: we were. We were just out there having fun with
Speaker 1: it and yeah, and made it all the way to
Speaker 1: stay So I mean, I enjoyed the hell out of
Speaker 1: Little Still's a good time. The football guys crashed the party.
Speaker 1: Is there is there footage of that on YouTube or
Speaker 1: somewhere where people can see it. I don't know, honestly,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I don't think there's anything online
Speaker 1: of that. I might I might need to find some
Speaker 1: videos and post them for you all. That would be
Speaker 1: very entertaining. Hey, Trent, this was great. This was great.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate your time. Welcome to Cincinnati and we
Speaker 1: look forward to watching you play. All right, Yeah, thanks
Speaker 1: for having me. I'm looking forward to it. The Bengals
Speaker 1: Booth podcast is presented by Bud Light Seltzer. It's light
Speaker 1: and refreshing with a hint of fruit labor. Last week,
Speaker 1: there was a story on nfl dot com about the
Speaker 1: top ten pass rushing disruptors in the NFL last year.
Speaker 1: That stat combines hurries, pressures, and sacks to determine who
Speaker 1: is most effective at rushing the quarterback. Former Bengal Karl
Speaker 1: Lawson was number seven on the list. The free agent
Speaker 1: that the Bengals signed to replace him, Trey Hendrickson, checked
Speaker 1: in at number three. I spoke to the author of
Speaker 1: the article, Nick Shook, about that and much more. Nick
Speaker 1: I reached out after reading your recent story on NFL
Speaker 1: dot com about the top ten disruptors of twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: In New Bengal, Trey Hendrickson checked in at number three,
Speaker 1: ahead of Miles Garrett and Aaron Donald, among others. I
Speaker 1: know you are not saying that he's better than those
Speaker 1: two guys, but explain the stat and what it says
Speaker 1: about the Bengals acquisition of Trey Hendrickson. Well, I know you,
Speaker 1: I know that you know that I'm not saying he's better,
Speaker 1: but I would like to inform all Twitter that because
Speaker 1: they think otherwise when they just see your ranking next
Speaker 1: of these games. Um, well, the thing with with Trey
Speaker 1: Andrickson that that put him so high on this list
Speaker 1: was the fact that you know he got home And
Speaker 1: when I say that, I mean, you know, on his
Speaker 1: pass rushes he was getting to the quarterback and bringing
Speaker 1: him down. He wasn't just getting close and maybe pressuring
Speaker 1: him or causing a hurry or anything like that. He
Speaker 1: was finishing the job. I mean, he was nearer at
Speaker 1: or in the league lead for sacks for the majority
Speaker 1: of the season, and he had the highest sack rate
Speaker 1: of any player on this list of any player in
Speaker 1: the history of Next Gen's dabs dates back to twenty
Speaker 1: sixteen at over four percent, is the only guy to
Speaker 1: ever break four percent. So, you know, I think that
Speaker 1: you're getting a guy who ideally replaces somebody who lost.
Speaker 1: Also on this listen, Carl Lawson ended up in seventh,
Speaker 1: but you hope that it's not a flash in the
Speaker 1: pan thing. He you know, he came from college with
Speaker 1: the reputation for getting after the quarterback, and it's almost
Speaker 1: like he just happened to finally blossom in the final
Speaker 1: year of his deal and you know, at the perfect time.
Speaker 1: But again, he was playing offs to Tamra Jordan's So
Speaker 1: it does make you wonder, you know, was he benefiting
Speaker 1: from that or not. We'll find out, I think in
Speaker 1: Cincinnati this year. But he's I mean, he's a big
Speaker 1: get for the Bengals, no doubt. We are talking to
Speaker 1: Nick Shook from NFL dot Com. Let's talk about the
Speaker 1: Bengals pass rush in general, because it was pretty anemic
Speaker 1: last year. Last in the NFL in sacks twenty ninth
Speaker 1: and pass rush win raid. According to ESPN, they signed
Speaker 1: Trey they signed Larry Ogan job, They've got DJ Reader
Speaker 1: coming back from injury. They drafted four defensive lineman, including
Speaker 1: Joseph Osai in the third round. What do you think
Speaker 1: of the group and the likelihood that the Bengals pass
Speaker 1: rush will be much improved? Um, you know, I think
Speaker 1: even having guys healthy would help you a lot. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, Geno Atkins and what was going on with
Speaker 1: him in the last couple of years didn't really help
Speaker 1: him either. So I'm a big fan of Larry Ogan
Speaker 1: joby uh from his time with the Browns. I got
Speaker 1: to know him fairly well when I worked for the team,
Speaker 1: and you know, I love approach. He's a very hard worker.
Speaker 1: He's an under the radar guy who you know, he
Speaker 1: makes some plays here and there that might catch somebody's
Speaker 1: attention and then maybe to set the expectation a little
Speaker 1: too high and then they get disappointed. But that's not
Speaker 1: the type of players he's not. He's not your warrant
Speaker 1: sap interior rusher. He's just gonna break through and set
Speaker 1: the quarterback. But what he's gonna do is cause problems.
Speaker 1: He's rarely gonna get pushed back. He's gonna jam up
Speaker 1: the middle. Despite not being three hundred and thirty pounds
Speaker 1: or whatever. So he's gonna be effective in there, and
Speaker 1: I think he works really well in tandem. I think
Speaker 1: hed Reader's gonna help out with that, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: provided that he can come back healthy after missing Lois
Speaker 1: of last year. And you know, Hendrickson we already talked
Speaker 1: about um and I like Joseph Asaia I do. I
Speaker 1: thought that he got drafted later than I expected raw
Speaker 1: in the fact that he was an inside linebacker at
Speaker 1: Texas before making a position change and clearly becoming you know,
Speaker 1: the edge that he was supposed to be. You know,
Speaker 1: he's a little stiff in the hips, he doesn't quite
Speaker 1: have that natural bend yet. But I think it's great
Speaker 1: value for the Bengals, and if they give him a
Speaker 1: long road, he could become a very productive player. He's
Speaker 1: also not somebody that you're gonna have to immediately rely on.
Speaker 1: So overall, what I learned from that drafted from this
Speaker 1: offseason with the Bengals, at least in the defensive side
Speaker 1: of the ball, is they acknowledged that they were weaving
Speaker 1: the trenches and they needed to get better, because what
Speaker 1: can you do if you can't stop the run? Not
Speaker 1: much so it's It was an encouraging offseason for that,
Speaker 1: all right. Speaking of the draft, there was a heated
Speaker 1: national debate before the first round. Should the Bengals give
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow another weapon Jamar Chase or improve his protection
Speaker 1: with Pine Sewell, where were you before the draft and
Speaker 1: what do you think about what the Bengals did after
Speaker 1: the fact. Well, my background is an offensive line, so
Speaker 1: I was leaning towards Sewel because I think Sewel is
Speaker 1: potentially a generational tackle. I mean, the kids super impressive.
Speaker 1: He was coming out of high school going to Oregon.
Speaker 1: You know, routinely when you pull up his clips, you're
Speaker 1: seeing him block one or two guys a play. Sometimes
Speaker 1: he chase him at the same time. But I do
Speaker 1: understand the allure of the receiver and a Jamar Chase,
Speaker 1: who was fantastic when he last played football, which was
Speaker 1: with Joe Burrow at LSU's seasons ago. And I understand,
Speaker 1: you know, you're replacing a role, you know, owned by
Speaker 1: a J. Green. You've got T Higgins coming back after
Speaker 1: a very impressive rookie season, and you still have Tyler
Speaker 1: Boyd as well, who I think is another under the
Speaker 1: radar guy who could you know, really explode. I think
Speaker 1: in the right set of circumstances. So you combine all
Speaker 1: of that, then yeah, adding Jamar Chase makes sense. You
Speaker 1: have a trio of receivers and you can't overlook any
Speaker 1: of them. It's going to give nightmares to all the
Speaker 1: opposing defense is not to mention you have a brushing
Speaker 1: attack led by Joe Mixon. It's that is formidable. So
Speaker 1: I do understand going for the weapon over the tackle.
Speaker 1: I just think that I always personally prefer to invest
Speaker 1: in high quality offensive lineman because provide that they can
Speaker 1: stay healthy, that's something that you don't have to worry
Speaker 1: about for five to ten years and you can't put,
Speaker 1: I think a price on that. But I think they
Speaker 1: were in a great spot either way to get a
Speaker 1: prime time player in either Sewel or Chase, and I
Speaker 1: think they'll be happy regardless. In the interest of full disclosure,
Speaker 1: I was also in favor of Pine Sewel before the draft,
Speaker 1: but at the end of round one, when I looked
Speaker 1: at the available lineman left in comparison to the available
Speaker 1: wide receivers left, I think the Bengals got it right.
Speaker 1: I would agree. I would agree, you know It's funny
Speaker 1: because the year prior, we had spent so much time
Speaker 1: talking about how strong the receiver class was, and then
Speaker 1: you saw them flying up the board at a faster
Speaker 1: rate this year. And whereas you know, the tackle class
Speaker 1: last year was very good, but there were more lineman
Speaker 1: that you could see becoming very solid offensive lineman in
Speaker 1: the NFL available on Day two. And I thought they
Speaker 1: did that pretty well at Jackson Carman when they spent
Speaker 1: that thing. It addresses an area that's not quite a
Speaker 1: need depending on how you want to, you know, set
Speaker 1: out you're starting five, but it gives you depth and frankly,
Speaker 1: you know, from this point last year to now, I
Speaker 1: thought the Bengals have done a spectacular job with remaking
Speaker 1: their offensive line. I think they left out with the
Speaker 1: quinnin Spain thing and how he ended up in Cincinnati,
Speaker 1: but overall, I think they've done a great job at that.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't you know, I got a lot of
Speaker 1: texts that you know, they're never going to keep Joe
Speaker 1: Burrow up right. You know, he's gonna have a dirty jersey.
Speaker 1: He's gonna be on the ground all afternoon because they
Speaker 1: selected a receiver instead of attackle on the first round,
Speaker 1: not realizing that the draft is more than one round,
Speaker 1: and that they'd had a quietly a very good off
Speaker 1: season in remaking that group. So yeah, it's sometimes I
Speaker 1: think it's tough to make a decision one way or
Speaker 1: the other, and we really won't know what the right
Speaker 1: move was for years down the road. But I feel
Speaker 1: very confident that no matter who they had taken there,
Speaker 1: that they'd be happy. Well, hearing you use the words
Speaker 1: spectacular job and remaking the offensive line is music to
Speaker 1: the ear of Bengals fans because the simple fact that
Speaker 1: they didn't take Pinney Sewell has led to the reaction
Speaker 1: from some that they're just neglecting the offensive line, ignoring
Speaker 1: the fact that they signed Riley Reef, they drafted Jackson Carmen,
Speaker 1: they drafted two other offensive linemen, they retained Quintin Spain
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, and they went out and brought Frank
Speaker 1: Pollock back to be their offensive line coach, widely considered
Speaker 1: to be one of the better ones in the NFL. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, that type of investment is what was sorely needed,
Speaker 1: and I think exactly what you have to do after
Speaker 1: you spend the number one overall pick on a franchise
Speaker 1: quarterback of the future. And you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: I think they did. They did do a very solid
Speaker 1: job there. And you know, none of them are splash
Speaker 1: signings necessarily. I thought Riley Reef is a very solid signing,
Speaker 1: but it's not a splash signing. I loved quintin Spain
Speaker 1: when he was with the Bills, and when he ended
Speaker 1: up in Cincinnata, was like, that's a that's a perfect fit.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't attract the eye of the average fan
Speaker 1: because how many fans are doing what I do, which
Speaker 1: is like pay very close attention to the offensive linemen
Speaker 1: and their footwork and their steps on a play by
Speaker 1: play basis while most everyone else is following the ball.
Speaker 1: It's just because I'm a line nerd. It's not necessarily
Speaker 1: because I'm smarter or anything. So you know those types
Speaker 1: of players who you know they can come in and
Speaker 1: make a contribution, make a difference and aren't going to
Speaker 1: grab the headlines, well then you know it starts to
Speaker 1: become a very solid effort that they put forth. And
Speaker 1: they do have death that I really like too. You know,
Speaker 1: I liked Billy Price coming out of Ohio State I
Speaker 1: was actually there watching his bench press tours pack, which
Speaker 1: is a bummer, but I like him as a backup,
Speaker 1: you know, Xavier Suaphilo, and he's got some experience being
Speaker 1: a backup, kind of a swing guy. I think Jackson Carmeo,
Speaker 1: he was a highly rated recruit coming out of high school.
Speaker 1: You guys know he's from that area and before he
Speaker 1: went to Clemson, you know, Flipton Ohio State and went
Speaker 1: to Clemson. I think that you can't argue with that
Speaker 1: type of you know, potential there as well. So I
Speaker 1: think it's a much better situation than it was a
Speaker 1: year ago, and they deserve to be committed for it.
Speaker 1: We are talking to self proclaimed line nerd Nick Shook
Speaker 1: from NFL dot Com. You can follow him on Twitter
Speaker 1: at the Nick Shook Sho. Okay, you do a lot
Speaker 1: of work with next Gen Stats for NFL dot com,
Speaker 1: and you teased recently on Twitter that you're going to
Speaker 1: be writing about the top ten coverage guys from last
Speaker 1: season sometime this month. And there was a graphic that
Speaker 1: accompanied your tweet that showed that Bengals cornerback Darius Phillips
Speaker 1: ranked third in the NFL last year and something that
Speaker 1: next Gen Stats calls ballhawk rates. I also saw that
Speaker 1: they tweeted out that he ran fourth in the NFL
Speaker 1: and tight window rate, meaning he is forcing tight windows.
Speaker 1: Is Darius Phillips underrated? So when it comes to next
Speaker 1: Gen stats, we have the benefit of the tracking data
Speaker 1: that they can tell us exactly where players are at
Speaker 1: specific moments, you know, relative to the players near them,
Speaker 1: how fast the ball is going, how fast they're traveling,
Speaker 1: when angle they're moving out, all this stuff that kind
Speaker 1: of helps us to get an idea of how prepared
Speaker 1: or how well they put themselves in a position to
Speaker 1: make a play on the ball, which is what the
Speaker 1: tight window thing is. How closely they to the targeted
Speaker 1: receiver when the past arrives. Usually you want to be
Speaker 1: within three yards. Most of these guys that you're going
Speaker 1: to see on these lists are within three yards. So
Speaker 1: forcing a tight window on a consistent basis tells us
Speaker 1: what we already see with our eyes, which is he's
Speaker 1: all over him. He's a blanket cover guy, you know,
Speaker 1: even potentially a shutdown corner guy. Ballhawk rate is where
Speaker 1: in that situation that players can end up making a
Speaker 1: play the ball. It's kind of the next step in
Speaker 1: the process, and a play on the ball could be
Speaker 1: a pass defended, or it could be an interception. If
Speaker 1: you have a high ball hawk rate and a tight
Speaker 1: high tight tight window rate, that means that basically you
Speaker 1: more often than not or more often than then most
Speaker 1: defensive backs in the NFL are very close to the
Speaker 1: receiver who's targeted and you're playing, making him play on
Speaker 1: the ball more often than most guys. I think ball
Speaker 1: hawk rate is very important provided that you have I
Speaker 1: think enough of a baseline of you know, targets over
Speaker 1: the seasons. Like the peace I'm working on right now,
Speaker 1: we have a minimum of forty targets. We have a
Speaker 1: minimum of three hundred pass coverage snaps. Darius Phillips didn't
Speaker 1: play the full season last year, finished a two hundred
Speaker 1: and ninety pass coverage snaps, so he's not going to
Speaker 1: end up on that list. But if he if he
Speaker 1: had dropped that down to let's say two fifty two
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five pass coverage snaps, then suddenly he's
Speaker 1: pretty high up there on the list. Because of things
Speaker 1: like ball hawk rate, tight window There's some other stats
Speaker 1: as well that we kind of rely on to to
Speaker 1: kind of figure out, you know, who's the best in
Speaker 1: covering in all areas, you know, one of them being
Speaker 1: completion percent over or under expectation allowed, which is kind
Speaker 1: of a complicated thing where when it passes throne, you
Speaker 1: know not to get too deep in the week, but
Speaker 1: when it passes throwne based on all the data of
Speaker 1: everybody on the field at the same time and where
Speaker 1: they are in the location, everything else, there's a there's
Speaker 1: a probability, a likelihood that pass is going to be completed.
Speaker 1: If a defensive back then forces any completion on the
Speaker 1: pass that was likely to be completed. Stretched that over
Speaker 1: an entire season, all the coverage snaps that they have,
Speaker 1: you end up getting how much of a difference they're making.
Speaker 1: If their completion percentage under expectation is a negative number,
Speaker 1: that means they're doing well, whereas receivers doing the negative number,
Speaker 1: that means you're doing poorly because you're not catching as
Speaker 1: much as the expectation you know sets for you to catch.
Speaker 1: That you're basically not doing the job you're expected to do.
Speaker 1: So that's another number that we use. He's also pretty
Speaker 1: high up there in those numbers. That's will actually have
Speaker 1: it in front of you right now. He's a negative
Speaker 1: five point one percent, which is going to be among
Speaker 1: some of these guys that are on this list. He's
Speaker 1: not gonna be on this list again because he doesn't
Speaker 1: hit the total pass coverage snaps necessary at just two
Speaker 1: hundred and nine. I set the base line to three
Speaker 1: hundred and getting good. But I do think all of this,
Speaker 1: this very long winded explanation has told us is that
Speaker 1: you know, this is a guy who I think is
Speaker 1: on the rise. I'm a MAC guy myself, so I
Speaker 1: love anybody who's coming out of a MAX school and uh,
Speaker 1: and I think he's wanted to continue watching in a
Speaker 1: secondary that's probably going to need to rely on him
Speaker 1: a little bit more going forward. We're talking to Nick
Speaker 1: Shook from NFL dot Com. Bengals fans have been very
Speaker 1: encouraged by the side of Joe Burrow taking part in
Speaker 1: OTAs over the past couple of weeks. What did you
Speaker 1: think of Joe as a rookie and what do you
Speaker 1: think of his chances of ultimately becoming one of the
Speaker 1: better quarterbacks in the NFL. I think it's a great chance. Um.
Speaker 1: When I was I went to the Bengals Browns game
Speaker 1: a Thursday night, Week two, sitting in the press box
Speaker 1: just watching him drop back and throw. And I'm familiar
Speaker 1: with Joe uh in his you know performance going back
Speaker 1: to high school and he was an Athens High school.
Speaker 1: He actually beat my alma mater in the state semifinals
Speaker 1: Uh that year when he was you know, slaying it
Speaker 1: down there for Athens. So um, you know, he ends
Speaker 1: up into Ohio State. We all know the career progression,
Speaker 1: you know, from there to LSU and everything else. And
Speaker 1: I think that it's all just fit right in line
Speaker 1: with with who he is. I think he's grown as
Speaker 1: a pastor. But what I've seen more than anything, he's
Speaker 1: got that that brain of a coach's son. He's got
Speaker 1: the composure of a coach's son. I mean Week two,
Speaker 1: I was sitting in the press box and watching him
Speaker 1: sit in a pocket like he's been in the league
Speaker 1: for five or ten years, delivering the ball while that
Speaker 1: offensive line was still trying to figure it out. Myles
Speaker 1: Garrett is coming after him, while Olivier Vernon and Sheldon
Speaker 1: Richardson and all those guys are coming after him. Moxie,
Speaker 1: I mean total composure through the ball over fifty times
Speaker 1: and nearly through the Bengals to a victory in that one,
Speaker 1: And I thought that he was believing candidate for Offensive
Speaker 1: Brookie of Year until he get hurt. And then you know,
Speaker 1: they kind of cleared the way for Justin Herbert to
Speaker 1: run away with that award, which I don't think it
Speaker 1: was necessarily a full run with that. Justin Jefferson had
Speaker 1: a pretty strong case as well. But the sky is
Speaker 1: a limited think for Joe Burrow as long as you
Speaker 1: protect him and you surround him with weapons, which it
Speaker 1: seems like the Bengals have done. I think that you know,
Speaker 1: he's only going to go up from here is you know,
Speaker 1: if we can gear that his knee is fine, which
Speaker 1: advances in modern medicine makes me think that that's probably
Speaker 1: not going to be much of an issue. You just
Speaker 1: got to keep him up right, that's the biggest thing.
Speaker 1: And I think otherwise, you know, as long as he
Speaker 1: can come back from this injury and have that same confidence,
Speaker 1: he just picks up where he left off and continues
Speaker 1: on up. Yeah, you saw sixty one attempts in that
Speaker 1: Week two game. I might want to cut down that
Speaker 1: a little bit in order to and increase the likelihood
Speaker 1: that he'll be upright, But obviously you want to use
Speaker 1: that weapon as well as much as you can. The
Speaker 1: Bengals are obviously in a very tough division with three
Speaker 1: teams that won at least eleven games last year, and
Speaker 1: those three teams made the playoffs. What does success look
Speaker 1: like for the Bengals this year? In your opinion, that's
Speaker 1: a tough one because I expect, you know, those other
Speaker 1: three teams to be very competitive. They should all be.
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know abou the Steelers as much. We'll see,
Speaker 1: but I expect the Browns and Ravens to be battling
Speaker 1: for the division title just based on roster construction objectory.
Speaker 1: But I think success for the Bengals is playing competitively,
Speaker 1: which they showed last year before Joe got hurt, that
Speaker 1: they were a competitive football team. Now they've had another
Speaker 1: off season to add talent and kind of, you know,
Speaker 1: get better. So I think success for them is you
Speaker 1: flirt with five hundred. You don't necessarily have to hit
Speaker 1: five hundred. Well, we don't really have five hundred anymore
Speaker 1: with seventeen games, but you know, nine, eight, eight and nine.
Speaker 1: You try to get in that range and and you
Speaker 1: demonstrate progress, you demonstrate that we're maybe a couple more
Speaker 1: pieces away. We're not that far away. We just need
Speaker 1: another offseason, We need another year to grow as a team,
Speaker 1: starting to come together. I think that is success. Anything
Speaker 1: above that, you have to be, you know, over the
Speaker 1: moon if you're a Bengals fan, just because of the
Speaker 1: difficulty of the division and the fact that every division
Speaker 1: game is gonna be tough. There are going to be
Speaker 1: no no cakewalks whatsoever for any team in this division,
Speaker 1: and that that includes those playing against the Bengals, because
Speaker 1: the Bengals are a competitive football team, at least when
Speaker 1: they have their starting quarterback healthy. So it's going to
Speaker 1: be a tough one for them. This might be the
Speaker 1: best division of football. If not, it's definitely one of
Speaker 1: the best. And unfortunately for the Bengals, they're not among
Speaker 1: that group yet. But I don't think that they're that
Speaker 1: far away from turning that corner. And this could be
Speaker 1: the first step this year. Well, they had a tie
Speaker 1: last year, so eight eight and one is the new
Speaker 1: five hundred. Let's go for it. Well, if it happens,
Speaker 1: people heard it first on this podcast. Nick I really
Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Keep up the good work, and I
Speaker 1: look forward to reading about the top ten corners. Even
Speaker 1: though Darius Phillips did not have enough snaps to qualify. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what, next year, he needs to play more
Speaker 1: than twelve games, and he'll get that night. He'll probably
Speaker 1: get that number even in twelve games, no doubt next year.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on, Dan, I really appreciate it,
Speaker 1: all right, thank you, My thanks to Nick Shook and
Speaker 1: Trent Taylor. And that's going to do it for this
Speaker 1: episode of the Bengals Booth Podcast, brought to you by
Speaker 1: bud Light Seltzer Reach the Game. If you haven't done
Speaker 1: so already, please subscribe and if you have a minute,
Speaker 1: give it a rating or share a comment that helps
Speaker 1: more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm Dan Horde, and
Speaker 1: thanks for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast