1
00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,280
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penl Podcast. I'm Paul swing you

2
00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,760
Speaker 1: along with my co host Lisa Brahmas. Each day we

3
00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,399
Speaker 1: bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for you

4
00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,600
Speaker 1: and your money, whether at the grocery store or the

5
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,920
Speaker 1: trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple podcast

6
00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,000
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as that

7
00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,040
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com. I am so excited for this next

8
00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,720
Speaker 1: next conversation because there has been one economist who has

9
00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,040
Speaker 1: uniquely been focused on the consumer, on the health of

10
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,880
Speaker 1: the balance sheets of Americans for frankly years, and now

11
00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,640
Speaker 1: his research is all that much more poignant. Torsten Slock,

12
00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,960
Speaker 1: Deutsche Bank chief economists joining us now and Torsten, you

13
00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,640
Speaker 1: sent out a chart this morning that was pretty stark.

14
00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:49,000
Speaker 1: It was global discretionary consumer spending a one percent decline

15
00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,120
Speaker 1: in two weeks. Can you give us a sense towards

16
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,560
Speaker 1: and of what we have seen so far in terms

17
00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,960
Speaker 1: of the economic impact and what it might say if

18
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,520
Speaker 1: you extrapolate it further given the all the closures and

19
00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,160
Speaker 1: shut down to the way of the coronavirus. Yeah, I mean,

20
00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,200
Speaker 1: the unfortunate thing is that we went into this with

21
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,640
Speaker 1: the liquacy rates and consumer loans already going up. We

22
00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:13,920
Speaker 1: have seen a particularly auto loans the liquacy rates go

23
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,840
Speaker 1: up for several years. This has to do with loans

24
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,840
Speaker 1: were given to people who unfortunately were not able to

25
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,720
Speaker 1: pay their auto loans on time, so that meant that

26
00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,560
Speaker 1: the dilquaty rate had already been slowly moving higher on

27
00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,199
Speaker 1: a number of different consumer loans. So this of course

28
00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,080
Speaker 1: is now the backdrop for the chart that I sent

29
00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,319
Speaker 1: out that you're mentioning exactly that we're beginning to see

30
00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,480
Speaker 1: quite a significant drop off in discrestionary spending. And this

31
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:42,000
Speaker 1: resonary spending basically means everything from cars to washers and dryers,

32
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,640
Speaker 1: to furniture to electronics, things that normally require financing or

33
00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,680
Speaker 1: things that are normally bigger purchases. The nuance, of course

34
00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,680
Speaker 1: is that with many people working at home, you could

35
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,240
Speaker 1: expect to see some categories of consumer durable goods, meaning

36
00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,520
Speaker 1: electronics and computers and other things that could be doing better.

37
00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,400
Speaker 1: But adaly speaking, this chart specifically showed for restaurants. We

38
00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,360
Speaker 1: have seen and this is more on the anecdotal side,

39
00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,880
Speaker 1: but we've seen a number of indicators begin to show

40
00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:10,960
Speaker 1: that the unfortunately, the global consumer and this is not

41
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,079
Speaker 1: only a US phenomenon, The global consumer is importively stepping

42
00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,600
Speaker 1: pretty hard on the brakes when it comes to discursion

43
00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,040
Speaker 1: or spending, and that is of course not particularly good

44
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,200
Speaker 1: news when you think about the overall picture for the

45
00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,320
Speaker 1: global economy. So Torsen. Over the weekend, we've seen a

46
00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,359
Speaker 1: lot of forecasts come out economic forecast about US economic

47
00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,160
Speaker 1: impact with obviously a significant contraction in the second quarter,

48
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,000
Speaker 1: but most of them have a pretty swift rebound INCUS

49
00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,240
Speaker 1: three and four, suggesting a little bit of the type

50
00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,360
Speaker 1: of scenario where do you come out on what the

51
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,280
Speaker 1: economic impact could be here? Yeah, this is afterlutely critical,

52
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,240
Speaker 1: and this is also critical for markets. I mean, what

53
00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,080
Speaker 1: will the other leg of this v or even whatever,

54
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:52,720
Speaker 1: If it will be a you, what will that look like?

55
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,200
Speaker 1: The fear we have is that it will be a

56
00:02:55,320 --> 00:03:00,040
Speaker 1: muted rebound. And the muted aspect comes essentially from the

57
00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,480
Speaker 1: fact that once we are on the other side of

58
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,960
Speaker 1: the virus, if there are fears that the virus is

59
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,320
Speaker 1: not quite defeated everywhere in the world, if they're fears

60
00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,799
Speaker 1: that some countries still have it, if there fears that

61
00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,360
Speaker 1: it might still be in some emerging markets. Then you

62
00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,720
Speaker 1: do begin to wonder but one of them. The implications

63
00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,679
Speaker 1: of course also for travel, not only traveled globally, but

64
00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,480
Speaker 1: even travel domestically. What are the implications in terms of

65
00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,640
Speaker 1: how people think about what the longer term planning is

66
00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,160
Speaker 1: in terms of vacations, the longer term planning in terms

67
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,880
Speaker 1: of businesses doing things. So the reason why the reason

68
00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,320
Speaker 1: to be somewhat cautious about the second leg of the

69
00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,560
Speaker 1: v or the leg and the second leg of the

70
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,760
Speaker 1: move higher is that we will probably come out more

71
00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 1: scarred as consumers on the other side, and corporates will

72
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,120
Speaker 1: quite frank. We probably also come up most card where

73
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,920
Speaker 1: everyone will have higher stavings and you, as you know

74
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:51,760
Speaker 1: too well, if you have higher stavings, that means that

75
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,280
Speaker 1: consumption will also be muted. If you have higher savings.

76
00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,720
Speaker 1: For corporates, that also means that cap expending is also

77
00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,320
Speaker 1: going to be muted. So the risks are that the

78
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,680
Speaker 1: rebound here is going to be more nuded and more

79
00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,320
Speaker 1: limited relative to the speed with which we are folding.

80
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,320
Speaker 1: At the moment we're speaking with Torsten Slock, you economist

81
00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,920
Speaker 1: at Deutsche Bank, and Torsten You've done a lot of

82
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,120
Speaker 1: work about the fact that a lot of American households

83
00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,360
Speaker 1: don't have an extra four hundred dollars to cover emergency expenses.

84
00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:28,080
Speaker 1: You've also talked about how the lower wage workers are

85
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,360
Speaker 1: going to get harder hit by the disruptions caused by

86
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,080
Speaker 1: the coronavirus. And I'm just wondering going forward, do you

87
00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,680
Speaker 1: have a sense of whether the fiscal stimulus currently being

88
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:43,000
Speaker 1: bandied about in Washington, d C. Adequately gets money to

89
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,880
Speaker 1: the people who would need it in order to continue

90
00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,960
Speaker 1: their lifestyles and at least cushion the blow a little

91
00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,800
Speaker 1: bit to get back to the kind of recovery that

92
00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,280
Speaker 1: you're looking for hoping for on the other side of this. Yeah,

93
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,240
Speaker 1: this is absolutely a key question from a follcastic perspective,

94
00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,719
Speaker 1: both of the economy and for markets. The problem is,

95
00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,480
Speaker 1: as you know, and as you just mentioned that you

96
00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,920
Speaker 1: look at the fit data about of the population would

97
00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:09,599
Speaker 1: not be able to come up with four hundred dollars

98
00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,880
Speaker 1: if they had an emergency expense. Data from two thousand

99
00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,440
Speaker 1: nineteen shows that a roughly half of US households don't

100
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,160
Speaker 1: have an emergency savings account, and that means that they

101
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,520
Speaker 1: don't have a savings account with money put aside if

102
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,760
Speaker 1: there is some unexpected expenses. And if you also look

103
00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,240
Speaker 1: at the distribution of this, it is distributed more among

104
00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,240
Speaker 1: lower income households. And if you also then look at

105
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,559
Speaker 1: the issues in terms of age distribution, it is also

106
00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,640
Speaker 1: distributed more in terms of the younger people and the

107
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,360
Speaker 1: younger generations who don't have savings. So it will certainly

108
00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:48,120
Speaker 1: have a significant impact distributional terms on the consumer. What

109
00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,680
Speaker 1: we're going through here, and to your question about the

110
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,360
Speaker 1: package that's being discussed, we need to see exactly how

111
00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,560
Speaker 1: the design is as you cover so well, this is

112
00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,200
Speaker 1: still being debated, but it is pretty clear that they're

113
00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,200
Speaker 1: from a market perspective for every day then we don't

114
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,560
Speaker 1: get a solution, then there is a risk that this

115
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,080
Speaker 1: will be a deeper slowdown simply because something is needed

116
00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:11,719
Speaker 1: right now. And if you go back and look at

117
00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,280
Speaker 1: what happened in two thousand nine, then when the Congress

118
00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,320
Speaker 1: voted on sending checks out to consumers, it took two

119
00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,080
Speaker 1: months from the bill was voted on until the checks

120
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,960
Speaker 1: actually arrived, and two months forward from today. That brings

121
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,760
Speaker 1: you too late may that's a very very long period

122
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,599
Speaker 1: for consumers while they still have to pay their bills

123
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,240
Speaker 1: on their rent, the mobile phones, the groceries, everything that's

124
00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,400
Speaker 1: going on. And that's why the discretionary spending does get

125
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,320
Speaker 1: a bit lower priority in that scale of things. Is

126
00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,360
Speaker 1: it already too late? I wouldn't say it's too late,

127
00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,760
Speaker 1: but I mean, as as we all know, and if

128
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,600
Speaker 1: you take the statistic into account that they have, the

129
00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,960
Speaker 1: US households really only had their checking account and the

130
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:56,920
Speaker 1: money that they had in that. And if you are

131
00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,280
Speaker 1: so unfortunate that you lost your job through this, and

132
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,800
Speaker 1: you so unfortunately you don't have any savings, I mean,

133
00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,320
Speaker 1: we have a rent payment coming off here and April

134
00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 1: the first, and maybe we'll be able to get through that.

135
00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,040
Speaker 1: But the longer that we had to go through rent

136
00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,080
Speaker 1: payments and payments and mobile phones, the more the more

137
00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:17,360
Speaker 1: cautious and more hesitant and reluctant the US continuers probably get.

138
00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,200
Speaker 1: So that's why the more confidence how US households and

139
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,200
Speaker 1: markets can get that package is coming in. It's coming sooner,

140
00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,120
Speaker 1: run and later. I do think that that will be

141
00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,400
Speaker 1: very sumportive, of course importantly for markets, but most importantly

142
00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,160
Speaker 1: ultimately for the US economy. Torsten slack. Thanks so much

143
00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,200
Speaker 1: for joining us. We really appreciate your perspective. Torsten slock Is,

144
00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:42,440
Speaker 1: Deutsche Banks chief Economists. Well, certainly the news of the

145
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:47,200
Speaker 1: morning is the Federal Reserve unvailing unlimited quantitative easing to

146
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,040
Speaker 1: aid for businesses and states. To get some details, we

147
00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,160
Speaker 1: welcome our good friend Michael McKee, international economics and policy

148
00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,160
Speaker 1: correspondent for Bloomberg. Mike, thanks so much for joining us.

149
00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,000
Speaker 1: What are the salient details here of what the Fed

150
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,680
Speaker 1: announced this morning. I think the most important is the

151
00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,240
Speaker 1: unlimited que and the fact that they're starting this week

152
00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:13,120
Speaker 1: by basically doing that six billion dollars in treasuries in

153
00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,960
Speaker 1: mortgage securities every day this week. That dwarfs anything we

154
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,320
Speaker 1: saw during the quee one, two and three period, so

155
00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,360
Speaker 1: they are going all in on that. And then the

156
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,520
Speaker 1: fact that they're buying corporate bonds. Now they're setting up

157
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,960
Speaker 1: a special purpose vehicle. The idea is keep these things

158
00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,880
Speaker 1: off the FEDS books. Technically they're not allowed to buy

159
00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,559
Speaker 1: corporate paper, so by setting up a special purpose vehicle

160
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,920
Speaker 1: they can sort of get around that. And you mentioned

161
00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,559
Speaker 1: that the FED is is putting up for this. It's

162
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,080
Speaker 1: also the Treasury Department in the corporate bond programs and

163
00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,120
Speaker 1: the asset back program. The Treasury is taking an equity

164
00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:54,280
Speaker 1: stake in that as well, so they're working together on that.

165
00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,160
Speaker 1: And one important thing to keep in mind is that

166
00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,280
Speaker 1: if the stimulus bill puts more money into the Exchange

167
00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,440
Speaker 1: Stabilization Fund at the Treasury, as it's sort of scheduled

168
00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,640
Speaker 1: to do, they can ramp these up even farther and

169
00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,440
Speaker 1: by even greater amounts. So the FED and Treasury working

170
00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,040
Speaker 1: together to do as much as they can to try

171
00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:15,720
Speaker 1: to take some of the pressure off in the markets.

172
00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,720
Speaker 1: So the feders are really sort of reinstating some of

173
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,920
Speaker 1: the crisis era programs. The program you were talking about

174
00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,960
Speaker 1: is telf right the term Asset BacT Securities Loan Facility

175
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,560
Speaker 1: that they're reinstating, and basically, uh, the idea here is

176
00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,640
Speaker 1: to create a way to lever up to free up

177
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,920
Speaker 1: cash based on existing loans and securities that are held

178
00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,000
Speaker 1: on dealers and investors balance sheet. I'm trying to understand

179
00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,520
Speaker 1: the credit risk that the FED is taking on here. Yes,

180
00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,079
Speaker 1: this is providing more cash to the system. Are they

181
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,560
Speaker 1: also essentially bearing the credit risk for these instruments too? Well?

182
00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,400
Speaker 1: The special purpose vehicle will at least for the corporate

183
00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,960
Speaker 1: bonds bear the credit risk. They are insisting that what

184
00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,120
Speaker 1: you can put up is got to be investment grade,

185
00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,280
Speaker 1: but they're going down to triple B minus, so they're

186
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,240
Speaker 1: they're willing to take, um, you know, some risk that

187
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,719
Speaker 1: some of this stuff may fall if the corporation is

188
00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:16,400
Speaker 1: ultimately downgraded then um the TALF program is triple A

189
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:21,080
Speaker 1: rated assets, so they're taking as little credit risk as possible.

190
00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,640
Speaker 1: They have a requirement in the new Dodd Frank law

191
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:29,120
Speaker 1: that they can't lose money. Basically, they can't put financing

192
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,880
Speaker 1: at risk. So they can only go so far with that,

193
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:33,720
Speaker 1: and that's one of the reasons you have the Treasury

194
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,360
Speaker 1: involved in this taking the first trunch of risk. Hey, Mike.

195
00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,160
Speaker 1: In terms of scope at scale, how does this action

196
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:44,679
Speaker 1: compared to two eight? They've gone beyond uh, two thou

197
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,080
Speaker 1: eight and in two ways, one in size there are

198
00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,920
Speaker 1: more programs now buying more things, and also in speed.

199
00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,240
Speaker 1: There has since two thousand eight been a doctrine sort

200
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,640
Speaker 1: of developed an economics called optimal control, which is a

201
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,200
Speaker 1: nur the term for go big, go fast. When you're

202
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,280
Speaker 1: facing a crisis, throw everything you've got at it as

203
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,959
Speaker 1: quickly as possible to get ahead of it, and don't

204
00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,880
Speaker 1: chase it down the market, you know, don't chase the

205
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,599
Speaker 1: market down. And so that's what they seem to be

206
00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,480
Speaker 1: applying here. They seem to be all in on that

207
00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,760
Speaker 1: if we do everything we can now, it will put

208
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,840
Speaker 1: a floor onto the markets. Obviously, the floor is going

209
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,160
Speaker 1: to depend on what your outlook is in the markets

210
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:27,960
Speaker 1: for how long this is going to go on, But

211
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,800
Speaker 1: the FAN is signaling it's going to do everything possible

212
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,320
Speaker 1: is out. Does it have anything left? Uh, it doesn't

213
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,280
Speaker 1: have a whole lot left unless it could take on

214
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,280
Speaker 1: more credit risk. I'm not sure what else they could buy.

215
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,840
Speaker 1: They're pretty much buying every asset except equities, which they're

216
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,200
Speaker 1: legally over here. If they want it, they could have it.

217
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:53,240
Speaker 1: They come get it. Yeah, we'll have a flea market sale.

218
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,120
Speaker 1: They can buy that. But the Fan is doing everything

219
00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,600
Speaker 1: they can do now. There. They did mention that they're

220
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,240
Speaker 1: going to set up a main street lending program, but

221
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,960
Speaker 1: we don't have any details on that. It does seem

222
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,600
Speaker 1: to be tied to whatever comes out of Capitol Hill,

223
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,880
Speaker 1: and we'll see how that works. There was some thought

224
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,199
Speaker 1: at the FED that they didn't really want to be

225
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,760
Speaker 1: in the position of being the lender to main Street

226
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,600
Speaker 1: because they don't have the bureaucratic set up to do it.

227
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,600
Speaker 1: That banks would be better off doing that, and banks

228
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,719
Speaker 1: could be funded directly through the fiscal program. But it

229
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:30,360
Speaker 1: may be that the Fed is going to have a

230
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,520
Speaker 1: role here. Michael McKee, thank you so much for for

231
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,400
Speaker 1: breaking it down for us, and we'll continue to get

232
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,880
Speaker 1: details and we'll bring them to you, but definitely throwing

233
00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:39,920
Speaker 1: the kitchen sink at it. The Federals are trying to

234
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,520
Speaker 1: cut out ahead of what will inevitably be a really

235
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,880
Speaker 1: difficult time in the economy. Michael McKee, International Economics and

236
00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:51,000
Speaker 1: Policy correspondent for Bloomberg. Really amazing the speed and the

237
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,880
Speaker 1: scope to which they are acting. Perhaps they learned from

238
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,520
Speaker 1: the last time around. It does not help anything to

239
00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,199
Speaker 1: be slow, certainly when Congress is not passing their bill

240
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:06,880
Speaker 1: in the fashion that everybody would like. Let's bring out

241
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,559
Speaker 1: our good friend, Kid Jukes, Global ffex Strategist for Society

242
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,800
Speaker 1: is General kit Thanks so much for joining us. We

243
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,520
Speaker 1: know you're busy talking with your clients, keeping in touch

244
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,080
Speaker 1: with the market. Give us a sense of you know,

245
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 1: We've seen the dollar, the d X, Y and next

246
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,200
Speaker 1: just rallies so dramatically over the last couple of weeks.

247
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:29,679
Speaker 1: What's your sense about kind of the currency markets right here? Um,

248
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,920
Speaker 1: that they're comments today than they've been, which doesn't mean

249
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:38,880
Speaker 1: they calm um you, last week was a mad scramble

250
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,760
Speaker 1: for for dollars. We know, we know the dollars the

251
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,480
Speaker 1: world's global currency. We know there's a lot of folks

252
00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,079
Speaker 1: who have dollar assets that they financed with short term

253
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,000
Speaker 1: dollar liabilities. Whether they're boring and lending dollars from Americans

254
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,800
Speaker 1: or not, doesn't matter. They need them, and they needed

255
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,920
Speaker 1: them immediately. That the FED has, you know, along with

256
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:02,280
Speaker 1: Pizza's mother in law's as Incinc. Whoever think he had

257
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 1: involved in this particular exercise, that they were very quick

258
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,440
Speaker 1: to expand the group of central banks that they do

259
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,360
Speaker 1: swap arrangements with to get more dollars more widely into

260
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,320
Speaker 1: the system. They seem to have calmed down the domestic

261
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,440
Speaker 1: front end of the money market. Um, but it's a

262
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,720
Speaker 1: huge problem. So so on any given day we look

263
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,000
Speaker 1: at it and you know, I couldn't promise you that

264
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,560
Speaker 1: we wouldn't start feeling dollars tight again later this evening,

265
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,680
Speaker 1: you know, before I go home. But but today, um,

266
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 1: as the FED has ramped up yet again. You know

267
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,160
Speaker 1: that the dollar is a little bit lower against something

268
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,720
Speaker 1: against the euro and the and the end the currencies

269
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,200
Speaker 1: that are still it's a lot weaker by the way,

270
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,920
Speaker 1: against things like you know, the Norwegian chrona for example,

271
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:46,840
Speaker 1: which is sort of getting itself out of gael But

272
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,080
Speaker 1: it's it's still um. The weakest currencies are sort of

273
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:51,800
Speaker 1: half related to that, which are the ones which are

274
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,840
Speaker 1: um most all sensitive. So some of the emerging market

275
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,720
Speaker 1: currencies a week week, generally the oil sensitive currencies, um,

276
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,680
Speaker 1: they have you know, they have a whole problem of

277
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 1: their own really with the collapse and in all prices

278
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 1: gave them this kind of unique double wemmy. But but

279
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,120
Speaker 1: the FED is doing a fantastic job of of of

280
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,640
Speaker 1: doing more than the ECB did when they did whatever

281
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:16,920
Speaker 1: it takes. If if everything is bigger than that, then

282
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,000
Speaker 1: then then this is where we are, and it could

283
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,640
Speaker 1: I think most of the people who I was speaking

284
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,600
Speaker 1: with over the weekend agreed with you, but they still

285
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,360
Speaker 1: felt rather catastrophic. And I'm wondering from your perspective, there

286
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,280
Speaker 1: is a feeling out there a very big fear that

287
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,120
Speaker 1: all of the borrowing, the leverage that was built into

288
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,840
Speaker 1: the system, with especially emerging markets borrowing in dollars and

289
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,680
Speaker 1: corporates around the world just borrowing as much as they

290
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,400
Speaker 1: could do things like you know, share buy backs and

291
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,280
Speaker 1: pay out dividends, that the FED can't stop this, and

292
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,640
Speaker 1: that possibly fiscal stimulus can't either, and the system just

293
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,360
Speaker 1: needs to kind of exhaust itself before people can really

294
00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,520
Speaker 1: start to reassess the damage. Do you think there's any

295
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,640
Speaker 1: credence to that view. I'm worried about that being true,

296
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,280
Speaker 1: and I think central banks can can get to gross

297
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,160
Speaker 1: with this that you know, I mean, there's a there's

298
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,160
Speaker 1: a problem that comes later, which is that if you know,

299
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,120
Speaker 1: if if if the if. Corporate America for example, has

300
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 1: re levied itself since the financial crisis, so there's even

301
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 1: more leverage than there was last time. Um. Is it

302
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,640
Speaker 1: great that we all get sorted out with infinite, infinite

303
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,160
Speaker 1: free short term money to make everything okay? Um? You

304
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 1: know we we we do actually have to clean the

305
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,160
Speaker 1: system out, so but but I don't think we need

306
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,440
Speaker 1: to clean this out in the middle of a human crisis.

307
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,240
Speaker 1: Thanks that's not a useful piece. So I do think

308
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,000
Speaker 1: that we will that we will get through. But but

309
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,400
Speaker 1: you're right, it's enormous, you know. I mean again over

310
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,040
Speaker 1: the weekend, you know, the kind of the charts that

311
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,760
Speaker 1: were being floated around. We're all armageddon ones in terms

312
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,480
Speaker 1: of how bad some of these things. Outflows from outflows

313
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,680
Speaker 1: from bond funds, from ets, the weakness that we were

314
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,840
Speaker 1: seeing in things, and um, what what I what I

315
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,280
Speaker 1: think though, if there's a chromos comfort is that what

316
00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:10,639
Speaker 1: we've learned over several cycles now it is to to

317
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:15,040
Speaker 1: go in large, not worry about inflation um and society

318
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 1: up later, but but go in and really make sure

319
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,320
Speaker 1: that the financial system doesn't make the economic problems and

320
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,120
Speaker 1: the real life problems worse than they have to be already.

321
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,400
Speaker 1: I think they'll succeed. But I am not anising other

322
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:36,000
Speaker 1: than anxiously staring at screens all like the rest of us. Yeah,

323
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:37,920
Speaker 1: Kit Jukes, thanks so much for joining us. We really

324
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:39,800
Speaker 1: appreciate you taking some time out of your busy day.

325
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,879
Speaker 1: Kit Jukes, global effects strategist for Society General, joining us

326
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,960
Speaker 1: on the phone again. The d X Y index off

327
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,680
Speaker 1: a little bit less than one percent but has been

328
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,520
Speaker 1: so strong over the past couple of weeks, Lisa, as

329
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,880
Speaker 1: investors just flocked to the you know that the US dollar, Yeah,

330
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,160
Speaker 1: you know. Frankly, I'm getting a little bit of confidence

331
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,959
Speaker 1: today that gold is up, it spot world is up

332
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,080
Speaker 1: because there was a fear last week that everything was broken,

333
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,960
Speaker 1: with bond yields rising and gold prices falling in this

334
00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,760
Speaker 1: idea that you could just sell whatever you can and

335
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,400
Speaker 1: there wasn't really a bid for anything other than cash

336
00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,439
Speaker 1: or dollars on the other side of it, And there

337
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,280
Speaker 1: does feel like there is a different tone today. The

338
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,159
Speaker 1: question is whether it'll be enough to really lubricate the

339
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 1: system and get people to have conviction going into risk

340
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,720
Speaker 1: your credit at a time of a really uncertain economic backdrop.

341
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,360
Speaker 1: There's a question, Paul. A lot of people, particularly wealthier individuals,

342
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,239
Speaker 1: had been getting rather cautious in the months leading up

343
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,879
Speaker 1: to the coronavirus induced disruption that we've seen recently. There

344
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,760
Speaker 1: is a question of how they got cautious moving more

345
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,920
Speaker 1: into real estate, whether they have the cash to actually

346
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,520
Speaker 1: start deploying it, and whether they're starting to get perhaps

347
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,680
Speaker 1: a little bit more I don't want to say bullish,

348
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,000
Speaker 1: but starting to pick over some of the rubble in

349
00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,240
Speaker 1: amid this sell off. Joining us now as someone with

350
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 1: a very unique an important perspective on this, Michael Sonnenfeldt,

351
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,840
Speaker 1: chairman and founder of Tiger twenty one. It's a pure

352
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:10,880
Speaker 1: organization of ultra wealthy individuals that come together and share

353
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 1: their investing strategies and views. Has seven members more than

354
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 1: seventies seven billion dollars in assets. Michael, I remember last

355
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,520
Speaker 1: time we spoke with you, you were talking about how

356
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,680
Speaker 1: there is an increasing focus on real estate. Can you

357
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,560
Speaker 1: give us a sense of how some of the members

358
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 1: of of of of your organization or position heading into

359
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,680
Speaker 1: this and what they're talking about right now? Sure, well,

360
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,720
Speaker 1: everybody is obviously sucked into their homes and gone through

361
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:44,359
Speaker 1: a transformation of being virtual, so that's new for everybody.

362
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,560
Speaker 1: Going into this are members which are not just wealthy,

363
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,840
Speaker 1: their entrepreneurs. It's a subset of people with certain levels

364
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 1: of wealth, but because of entrepreneurs that allows them to

365
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 1: think about this quite differently. And for the last year

366
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,600
Speaker 1: people been getting nervous about the market. But of course

367
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:08,959
Speaker 1: nobody could have anticipated the coronavirus, nor the Russia uh

368
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia oil debacle. It's sort of like having a

369
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 1: tsunami and an earthquake at the same time. So will

370
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 1: While real estate has remained tops for our members at

371
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:25,239
Speaker 1: about of assets, it's actually come down as well. They

372
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,160
Speaker 1: had taken chips off the table over the last year

373
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 1: and maintain very strong cash reserves at twelve percent so

374
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 1: that they're not forced to sell at a bottom like this,

375
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,119
Speaker 1: but have enough living expenses so that they can power

376
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 1: through or survive to the best of ability. But obviously

377
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 1: there's a lot of devastation all around. Michael, what are

378
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 1: your clients thinking here as to you know, kind of

379
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 1: the duration here? Are they thinking kind of police's question,

380
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,960
Speaker 1: maybe time to maybe look at certain names or certain

381
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 1: asset classes. Are they take any boy, this could be

382
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 1: a much longer, lower for longer type scenario. So I

383
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,919
Speaker 1: don't think there's any one view. It's a collection of views.

384
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 1: And our members who are typically in groups that meet

385
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 1: in person now are meeting virtually. We've shifted the organization

386
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 1: completely to virtual meetings on a dime, so to speak.

387
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 1: Um and obviously some members are looking for opportunities. A

388
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 1: number of us traded shorts at the first sign of

389
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: coronavirus of the market, and that trade has turned out

390
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 1: to be very good. But you almost in most cases

391
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 1: the profits from those shorts has simply offset the clins

392
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: in the portfolio because you can't liquidate private equity and

393
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 1: real estate in a month, and that's where we have

394
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: a large concentration. But as to timing, I think everybody

395
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,440
Speaker 1: understands this is this is totally unique and the the

396
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 1: medical issues, the health issues are likely to peak within

397
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 1: three to six months, as has happened everywhere else. But

398
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: when you have the kind of economic dislocation, the question

399
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 1: is how long will it take for the economy to

400
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: bounce back? And the only insight that we have is

401
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 1: typically it takes less time. Most people say ten years.

402
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 1: This could be returned in two to three years, but

403
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: it's not going to be in six months. Michael, I

404
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: want to go to your point about the real estate investments,

405
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: that there were some chips taken off the table ahead

406
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: of this, but that still was uh a significant holding

407
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: or the biggest holding of your members. Tom Barrick, real

408
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: estate investor, said in a Bloomberg Television interview that the

409
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 1: U s commercial mortgage market is on the brink of collapse,

410
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 1: the predicted a domino effective catastrophic economic consequences if the

411
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: industry isn't basically back stopped by the government. I'm wondering

412
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 1: whether any of your members are I guess in technical parlance,

413
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,959
Speaker 1: freaking out right now and trying to liquidate as much

414
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,880
Speaker 1: of their holdings as they can, uh in the face

415
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 1: of what could be even more pain. Yeah, So you

416
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: have to distinguish between the equity the real estate equity

417
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,439
Speaker 1: market and which is not a liquid market other than

418
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: if you own it through reeds, and the commercial credit market,

419
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: where there is more liquidity. Most of our members real

420
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: estate exposure is in owning buildings directly or through private

421
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 1: partnerships limited partnerships. And you know perfect example is, UH,

422
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: my partner and I developed a Coals department store, meaning

423
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: we own the land and Coals built their own building

424
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: on the land. That was a rock solid triple net lease.

425
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 1: But right now, UH, Coals is shut at their doors.

426
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: They have no revenue, so they're not going to pay

427
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: their rent and if they not, they haven't stopped yet.

428
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: But if they don't pay their rent, then how do

429
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 1: you pay the mortgage? And so you have this cascading

430
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: effect So what Tom is talking about is unless there's

431
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 1: help for the rent payers, you'll have this cascading effect

432
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 1: that the landlords can't make their debt payments, and that's

433
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: where all hell breaks loose. So Michael, just real quickly,

434
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 1: what do your members think the government needs to do here?

435
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: The government first of all needs to act decisively. Members,

436
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,959
Speaker 1: I think largely expect a bail out, uh, and they

437
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: really would like to kind of leadership nationally that is

438
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: calming that we've seen from FDR as an example during

439
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: the war. And hats off to Governor Cuomo who seems

440
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: to have really taken the lead in the kind of

441
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: communications and straight talk that is calming to people. Uh.

442
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: People really would like to see a steady hand and

443
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 1: an optimistic but realistic assessment about how to get through this.

444
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: Michael Son and felt, thanks so much for joining us.

445
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: We always appreciate your unique opinion on investing across a

446
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 1: whole series of asset classes. Michael Son and fell as

447
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: a chairman of Tiger twenty one with a unique group

448
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: of investors, Ultra high net worth investors tend to have

449
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: some unique ways to look at the markets. Thanks for

450
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 1: listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can

451
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever

452
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Paul Sweeney. I'm on Twitter

453
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: at pt Sweeney. I'm Lisa Abram Boyd's I'm on Twitter

454
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: at Lisa A. Bram Woyds One. Before the podcast, you

455
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio