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Speaker 1: This is the primal scream of a dying regime.

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Speaker 2: Pray for our enemies because we're going to medieval on

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Speaker 2: these people.

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Speaker 1: There's not got a free shot. All these networks lying

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Speaker 1: about the people, the people have had a belly full

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Speaker 1: of it. I know you don't like hearing that.

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Speaker 2: I know you tried to do everything in the world

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Speaker 2: to stop that, but you're not going to stop it.

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Speaker 1: It's going to happen. And where do people like that

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Speaker 1: go to share the big line? Mega media?

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Speaker 2: I wish in my soul, I wish that any of

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Speaker 2: these people had a conscience. Ask yourself, what is my

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Speaker 2: task and what is my purpose?

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Speaker 1: If that answer is to save my country, this country

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Speaker 1: will be saved. Wor use your host, Stephen k Man.

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Speaker 2: You've just had an explosion across the battlefield that is

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Speaker 2: American politics here in the Imperial Capital. You've actually had

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Speaker 2: the a senior editor of I would argue, one of

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Speaker 2: the most, if not the most influential publication on a

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Speaker 2: weekly basis, before you had cable TV and podcasts and

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Speaker 2: everything like this. The revered Time magazine accuse in an

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Speaker 2: open hearing in front of the nation, arguably one of

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Speaker 2: the most respected individuals that had been in government for

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Speaker 2: a long time, had been aide de camp to Roosevelt,

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Speaker 2: the first Secretary General of the United Nations, just to

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Speaker 2: get the kickoff and now leading the most prestigious and

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Speaker 2: goo the Carnegie and dowmon apiece as being a Soviet agent.

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Speaker 1: What happens, Well, Chambers goes through about eight or nine

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Speaker 1: names and said, mentioned some others well known, not as

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Speaker 1: well known as his and the others. I'll go silent because, well,

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Speaker 1: if somebody accuses you of something, accuse you of being

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Speaker 1: a communist, you got to remember, Steve, this is an

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Speaker 1: era where if you're accusing someone of being a communist

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Speaker 1: and they're not, that's potential slander or libel. Yes, right,

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Speaker 1: because it's not read them.

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Speaker 2: Watched them and when you watch the movie Oppenheimer, I

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Speaker 2: mean we went from allies quote unquote to now mortal enemies, right,

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Speaker 2: and not just it was not just about geopolitics at

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Speaker 2: the time. These are two distinct views of how one

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Speaker 2: views humanity, the world, all of it.

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Speaker 1: This is the story of Whittaker.

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Speaker 2: Chambers goes from a hardcore if not Trotzky, I you know,

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Speaker 2: Marxist lenn and this atheist to a Christian, that is,

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Speaker 2: Christianity informs every movement of his life. Right, and you

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Speaker 2: see this whole battle right there. That's why this is

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Speaker 2: so big. This this consumed post war America, the war

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Speaker 2: against they called it the Cold War, but it got

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Speaker 2: hot in many places. This is what consumed us up

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Speaker 2: until all the way through President Reagan's President Reagan's presidency.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and Chambers insisted it was a moral battle.

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Speaker 1: That's what nobody wants here. It's not just it's not

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Speaker 1: just moving war. It's a spiritual, spiritual war. It's a

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Speaker 1: moral war. That's why. You know, when a friend of mine,

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Speaker 1: I think of yours too, Pap Buchanan tries to say

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Speaker 1: these things I said in a long time ago, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's hooted off the stage.

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Speaker 2: How is one of the leading Jewish intellectuals in the country,

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Speaker 2: a friend of what they tell us today is the

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Speaker 2: greatest anti Semite in the nation, Pap Buchanan. I revered

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Speaker 2: Pap Buchanan, But to hear you say that your a

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Speaker 2: buddy of his is pretty shocking.

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, any journalist who interviews Pap Buchanan

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Speaker 1: knows how straight he is, how direct, how uncensored and

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Speaker 1: how helpful he will be. He and you know, people

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Speaker 1: are shocked by There's actually a friend of mine who

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Speaker 1: told me a long time ago before I interviewed Pap again.

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Speaker 1: He said he's a really nice guy. I didn't believe

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Speaker 1: it then it met him many years. But there's something

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Speaker 1: else going on here too. Is now we're going to

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Speaker 1: get to something that's in the Buckley book. If we

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Speaker 1: want to switch over there, we see it is.

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Speaker 2: Because Buckling now comes on the state. He does come

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Speaker 2: on the stage, I'm very sure, a big player, but

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Speaker 2: in the wings. But all of a sudden you're going

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Speaker 2: to see that, You're going to see the colonels of

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Speaker 2: all this. This is why it's the revolution, that change

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Speaker 2: of murk we're now going to get in. It's more

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Speaker 2: than Buckley. It's what Buckley sees down the road.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And Pap Buchanan, of course is still a

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Speaker 1: younger guy than Buckley, but he was raised in all this.

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Speaker 1: Remember he comes from Washington and he was raised in

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Speaker 1: all this politics. And when Pap Buchanan had his big

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Speaker 1: fight really with the neo conservatives during the first Iraq

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Speaker 1: or something, I think you know a little bit about

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Speaker 1: that first Golf War and the way I treated it

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Speaker 1: in my book. And if you go back and look

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Speaker 1: at the documents and debates at the time, because it's

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Speaker 1: recirculating right now, right now it's happening, there are accusations

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Speaker 1: that if you are skeptical of Israel and the way

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Speaker 1: it's conducting this war right now in us A, you

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Speaker 1: are anti Semitic, and so they look for every opportunity

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Speaker 1: to make that point. Well, if you go back to

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Speaker 1: the debate Pat Buchanan had, you're talking about the Gulf

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Speaker 1: in the nineties or the first one, the nine in

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Speaker 1: the nineties. I want people to understand this is not

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Speaker 1: after nine to eleven. This is pre nine to eleven.

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Speaker 1: This is when when the first Bush is president, the

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Speaker 1: invasion of Kuwait, the threat to Kuwait. Maggie Thatcher tells Bush,

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Speaker 1: you know, you'll get wobbling. That's it. You don't get wobbley. George,

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Speaker 1: George rights not scull and bones right by me and

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Speaker 1: Grove anymore. We got to do it. And Pat Buchanan says,

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Speaker 1: why are we fighting this war for Israel? Right and well,

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Speaker 1: and he's denounced and smeared many respects for that but

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Speaker 1: that was a battle about that war, which in retrospect,

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Speaker 1: maybe Pat Buchanan was right about what do.

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Speaker 2: You mean by that that's so controversial that we're gonna

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Speaker 2: get We may not get clicks, although I think we

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Speaker 2: will out the out of the The first part of

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Speaker 2: this about Whitiker Chambers, I think is Brillon and people

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Speaker 2: want to see what but right now you're you're gonna

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Speaker 2: go viral?

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Speaker 1: So tell me why.

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Speaker 2: What's the argument for why Pat Muchannan might have been

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Speaker 2: correct to say, which if everybody says, hey, the good

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Speaker 2: war that we fought over the last four years is

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Speaker 2: the goal for right because you were you know, and

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Speaker 2: little nation was invaded by a bigger nation. Uh, this

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Speaker 2: is where America had to stand up. Also, it might

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Speaker 2: have something to do with oil. But why was Bucan

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Speaker 2: because Buchanan really got the separation kind of the beginning

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Speaker 2: of this whole movement, This part of this movement really

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Speaker 2: started with that whole Powerhouse debate.

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Speaker 1: They had done well, you know, Steve, if you go

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Speaker 1: back and look at the debates in Washington among like

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Speaker 1: the major intellectual players of that era, and I mean

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Speaker 1: like Irving Crystal, not his son, Irving Crystal, Gene Patrick Kirkpatrick.

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Speaker 1: I went to George stun after she started thinking she

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Speaker 1: was a hammer, and they're saying, why are we looking

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Speaker 1: to start a new Cold War in the Middle East?

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Speaker 1: And Pat Buchanan had a line.

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Speaker 2: And Irving Crystal was not just he had been I

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Speaker 2: think a Trotsky act. He was, and he was one

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Speaker 2: of the guys lead the effort anti Chemist to get

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Speaker 2: to make sure we got the Jews out a rushing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this guy was a hammer, right. When these

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Speaker 2: guys are actually back in a Pat Buchanan, these are

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Speaker 2: not intellectual lightweights. These are about as heavy a public

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Speaker 2: national security intellectuals as you can have.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'll give you an example of this near the

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Speaker 1: end of his life when my wife Kathy, who got

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Speaker 1: very close to Bill Buckley as I did, we went

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Speaker 1: to see him in his house in Stamford two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight. Now we turned the clock forward and she

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Speaker 1: said to him, well, Bill, is there any conservative rider

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Speaker 1: now you really respect? He said, Irving Crystal, there's the one, right,

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Speaker 1: not Bill Crystal. Crystal, Irving Crystal and Jean Kirkpatrick. You

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Speaker 1: go back and look at some of Pat Buchanan's early books,

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Speaker 1: including the one he wrote on how the Republicans could

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Speaker 1: build a majority. He wrote that he remember he and

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Speaker 1: Bill Rusher were writing this book. Now we're getting into

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Speaker 1: the weeds, but I know that this stuff. No, this

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Speaker 1: is the way this is.

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Speaker 2: Remember, young people are thirsty for this information because none

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Speaker 2: of this stuff is taught. You're talking about some of

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Speaker 2: the hamming thirty years ago and has never discussed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I get. I know it's true because I see

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Speaker 1: it when I when I go around and talk about

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Speaker 1: this stuff. Well, you look at Pat Buchanan's early writing,

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Speaker 1: and you will see it's one of those early books

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Speaker 1: is dedicated to one of his mentors, Professor Irving Crystal.

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Speaker 1: This idea, right that somehow that intellectual elite declared war

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Speaker 1: and Pat Buchanan over that is untrue. They agreed with

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Speaker 1: Charles Croudhammer. I remember him. I remember him saying, the

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Speaker 1: isolationist position is totally defensible and consistent on intellectual and

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Speaker 1: ideological grounds. So here's the line Pad had that really

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Speaker 1: resonated with me. Later, he said, we already almost destroyed

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Speaker 1: the empire over a strategically meaningless country Vietnam. Why are

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Speaker 1: we meddling in a strategically important one the Middle East.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you another thing about this too fascinated me.

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Speaker 1: I found it in the Buckley book. So after Buckley

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Speaker 1: started National Review nineteen fifty five, it was not long

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Speaker 1: before the Suez Canal crisis, right over oil under the

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Speaker 1: British Empire. Under the British Empire, everybody favors the Brits,

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Speaker 1: the French, and for once he Israel's. Nash Review hated

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Speaker 1: Israel early on, and your viewers and listeners should know this.

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Speaker 1: I've got it in the book. Nashia Review referred to

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Speaker 1: Israel in nineteen fifty six as quote the first modern

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Speaker 1: racist nation unquote.

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Speaker 2: And so was that Buckley's Catholicism traditional Catholicism or.

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Speaker 1: What was that? What? What?

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Speaker 2: What brought that? What brought that to the forefront of

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Speaker 2: National Review. The Catholicism was one aspect. Another was came

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Speaker 2: from a writer that people knew only as a pro

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Speaker 2: McCarthy anti communist named Frida Uttley, and she had covered

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Speaker 2: the Middle East, and she said to Buckley, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to write a piece that defends the group nobody else

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Speaker 2: is looking at. There are these displaced Palestinians there and

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Speaker 2: they have a case to make and she wrote a

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Speaker 2: book about it. And there was one columnist in Washington,

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Speaker 2: of all people, Mary McGrory, the liberal, picked up on it.

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Speaker 2: Or it was Dorothy Thompson, that's what it was. Another

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Speaker 2: great liberal columnist picked up on it. That's a part

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Speaker 2: of the Algonquin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and she said, she said, Frida Utley is making

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Speaker 1: a case here. No one's paying attention to the Palestinians.

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Speaker 1: So Buckley. She sends the story to Buckley, and Buckley says,

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Speaker 1: what do we do with it? And he says, I

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Speaker 1: know what we'll do. We'll just invent a new column.

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Speaker 1: We'll call it the Open Question. And this is the

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Speaker 1: first one we're going to run. And that's why Buckley

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Speaker 1: was great. He could open he could open up instead

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Speaker 1: of this kind of you know, who do we who

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Speaker 1: do we deny? Who do we exclude? You think make

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Speaker 1: the good argument and I'll run it. Well that changes

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Speaker 1: over time.

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Speaker 2: We'll get to the part about we got to exclude

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Speaker 2: some guys here, the butchers and and and the and

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Speaker 2: the objective is the objective. This is a Bizarro and

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Speaker 2: Ron cult. The the the the the the butchers are

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Speaker 2: dangerous because of the conspiracy wing nuts.

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Speaker 1: But let's go back.

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Speaker 2: Let's go back to when Buckley comes in on the

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Speaker 2: on the wing of the stage.

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Speaker 1: It's at the end of the Algier his part, but

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the McCarthy part. Yes, and and so uh.

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Speaker 2: And and by the way, one of the most fascinating

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Speaker 2: parts of the book is that uh Buckley transformation personal

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Speaker 2: transformation about because unlike bush who are a kinetic family

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Speaker 2: who kind of went to Texas and pretend they're Texans,

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Speaker 2: Buckley's actually a Texan.

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Speaker 1: I mean his family who kind of heart and.

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Speaker 2: Worled all guys down in Texas that they moved to Connecticut,

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Speaker 2: and he was raised in Connecticut. But you know Buckley here,

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Speaker 2: one of the transforms thing is when he has to

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Speaker 2: go into the army, which he kind of tries to

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Speaker 2: avoid for a long time during World War Two. He's

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Speaker 2: anti World War two. Yeah, what's controversy, He's very anti

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Speaker 2: World War Two. He finally goes in, but in being

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Speaker 2: an infantry officer, even though just most of it's in training,

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Speaker 2: it does transform him and to be kind of more

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Speaker 2: of a guy's guy.

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Speaker 1: Guys guy. I'd add a second thing to that too,

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Speaker 1: which really made sense to me. When I went to

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Speaker 1: Buckley's hometown shower in Connecticut, which is what they call

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Speaker 1: the northwest corner Litchfield County right your Duchess County, New

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Speaker 1: York and a western Massachusetts. So I tell people when

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Speaker 1: the Buckleys were declaring Roosevelt War in the Roosevelts in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, they're declaring war. And the guy they

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Speaker 1: saw at the Riding Back horse show every summer like

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Speaker 1: this very much elites elites. Well. But but I mentioned

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Speaker 1: that because when my wife and I went to Sharon, Connecticut,

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Speaker 1: not where Buckley lived as an adult, but where he

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Speaker 1: grew up. And you can see the house there. That's

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Speaker 1: where the Young Americans for Freedom first met. You can

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Speaker 1: see the boulder with the statement on and all this,

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Speaker 1: and you walk to that town. You see right across

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Speaker 1: from the Buckley house is the oldest church in town.

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Speaker 1: And in Connecticut towns you really learned this. It's always

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Speaker 1: the Congregational Church. Then next door is the Episcopal Church,

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Speaker 1: High Church, High Church, down the street the Methodist little Loisures.

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Speaker 1: You have to go practically into a back alley to

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Speaker 1: find the Catholic church. And that's where the Buckley's worshiped

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Speaker 1: the household. Servants got in the cars with them and

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Speaker 1: they drove to church together. So who's worshiping at Saint Bernard's,

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church in Sharon, Connecticut. It's the working class.

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Speaker 1: That's who Buckley saw. Buckley was an altar boy. He

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Speaker 1: and his brothers are altar boys. His father was an

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Speaker 1: altar boy in Duval County, Texas, the one right the

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Speaker 1: county that won I have no air quotes here, but

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Speaker 1: won the Lyndon Johnson Senate campaign in nineteen forty eight.

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Speaker 1: Buckley's grandfather was a sheriff in that county.

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Speaker 2: So he comes out of Make sure they count him right,

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Speaker 2: living up dead, the count him by the pound. We're

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Speaker 2: going to take a short commercial break. I want to

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Speaker 2: Patrick and the team. Make sure you do that today,

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Speaker 2: good holiday reading on a Saturday afternoon to do it

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Speaker 2: a short break. We're back with Sam tanneh House in a.

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Speaker 1: Moment still America's voice. Family. Are you on Getter yet?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: What are you waiting for?

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Speaker 4: It's free, it's uncentered, and it's where all the biggest

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Speaker 4: voices in conservative media are speaking out.

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Speaker 1: Well. Download the Getter app right now. It's totally free.

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Speaker 2: It's where I put up exclusively all of my content

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Speaker 2: twenty four hours a day.

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Speaker 1: You want to know what Steve Banner is thinking, go together,

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Speaker 1: that's right. You can follow all of your faith Steve Banning,

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Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk, Jack, the Soviet and so many more. Download

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Speaker 1: the Getter app now. Sign up for free and be

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Speaker 1: part of the new bank.

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Speaker 2: Okay, if you really want to understand America and the

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Speaker 2: conservative movement, and particularly if you have a college student

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Speaker 2: or a young person in their twenties that you think

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Speaker 2: needs to get up to speed, this is the Christmas

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Speaker 2: gift you want to get them. Buckley by Sam Tannehausen.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, if you ever get wider chambers

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Speaker 2: for yourself, particularly if you're especially if you're a Christian

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Speaker 2: and you're saying, hey, in the world today, you know

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Speaker 2: it's so much Look anti Christian philosophy out there.

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Speaker 1: You think it's pressure. Read the book of witterker Chambers.

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Speaker 2: It is one of the most moving stories of I

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Speaker 2: guess a convert that had lived, had lived Christianity against

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Speaker 2: the pressures of the world. This book is amazing Buckley,

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Speaker 2: and I want to I want to throw down a challenge.

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Speaker 2: When Wicker Chambers, the book Witiger Chambers came at the

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Speaker 2: ninety who was the biggest promoter of that book in media?

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Speaker 1: Don Imus remember him?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: He dominated the nineties. He dominated right this. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: book was nominated for the National Book Award, and it

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Speaker 1: came in a box and I miss got it, and

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Speaker 1: he started reading it and he started talking about it.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't know this at first. I listened to

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Speaker 1: the program, but I would hear it in the afternoon.

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Speaker 1: I listened to this to him in the morning, but

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Speaker 1: I also listened to the sports guys. In the afternoon.

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Speaker 1: I was working. I was writing it home, and so

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Speaker 1: we called me out and I said, don Imus is

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Speaker 1: promoting your book. And then it became a thing. You

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Speaker 1: may remember if it became a joke. Remember Charles McCord

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Speaker 1: would do these things. I'm going to kill myself if

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Speaker 1: you don't stop talking about I miss and at about

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Speaker 1: tann and House and Chambers. I'm has called me up.

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Speaker 1: His wife called me up. This is it and ask

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Speaker 1: how she could get a custom made woodstock typewriter to

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Speaker 1: give Don for Christmas.

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Speaker 2: Because the typewriter was that. We're going to get to

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Speaker 2: that word. Why Why is the typewriter a story? You

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Speaker 2: talked about the farm, Tell me about the typewriter, Nixon, the.

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Speaker 1: Farm, all of it. Well, after the Pumpkin papers, after

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Speaker 1: Chambers first testified.

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Speaker 2: They say he's a liar. They say, the apparatus came down.

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Speaker 2: This is why if you're a Christian, you gotta read

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Speaker 2: this book. Everything that he feared, why he was kind

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Speaker 2: of a schizophrenic, turned out to be true.

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Speaker 1: They were out to get him.

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Speaker 2: As soon as he said this thing publicly, the entire

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Speaker 2: apparatus in the world crushed this guy.

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Speaker 1: Right. There were three accusations that the party would use

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Speaker 1: to smear somebody. One is to say he's a homosexual.

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Speaker 1: That's a term that was used back then. Two that

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Speaker 1: he's mentally unstable, and three he's an alcoholic. They said

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Speaker 1: this about Chambers. Go back.

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Speaker 2: I want to make sure people understand this. This is

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Speaker 2: what the Russians would do to basically try to smear somebody, right,

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Speaker 2: but they would do it through their agents.

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Speaker 1: American agents.

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Speaker 2: But you were gay, you were homosexual, two you were

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Speaker 2: mentally unstable, and three you're an alcoholic. And in Chambers case,

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Speaker 2: they try to do all three.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and they spread them around. And Chambers did happen

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Speaker 1: to have history of homosexuality. The others were untrue. And

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Speaker 1: so there's a really famous moment in the Hiss case.

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Speaker 1: It's one that brings tears to the eyes of grown men. Steve.

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Speaker 1: It's when they finally bring Hiss is the only one

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Speaker 1: of the accused who insists on answering Chambers. He says, no,

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Speaker 1: these are He sends a letter. After Chambers has named

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Speaker 1: him and seven or eight others, Hiss sends a note

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Speaker 1: to the committee the House, and he says, I demand

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Speaker 1: equal time. I want to come before the committee and

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Speaker 1: repudiate these lies have been told about me. So they said, well,

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Speaker 1: come on in, mister Hiss. So he does, Hey, and

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Speaker 1: what was his his thinking? Understanding? He actually was a spy.

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Speaker 1: He felt, I'm Alger Hiss.

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Speaker 2: I can go in front of and dominate where these

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Speaker 2: guys are the worst witnesses in the world Bentley and Chambers,

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Speaker 2: I'm Alger Hiss. This is I can command any stage.

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Speaker 2: I'm on, I'll command the stage and show that show

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Speaker 2: that show that he's just jealous, or he's mentally unstable,

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Speaker 2: or he drinks too much, or you know, he's just

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Speaker 2: not he's not a credible witness.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing he's got going for him, Steve,

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Speaker 1: is that the HUAC congressmen are really held in low repute.

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Speaker 1: It's the committee nobody wants to be on. They're the

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Speaker 1: red baiters. They've done the Hollywood ten.

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Speaker 2: Right, Ronald Reagan. This is Ronald Reagan's rise to power.

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Speaker 2: The whole movie the way we were is about this film.

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Speaker 2: They bring me about this moment, maybe this moment because

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Speaker 2: they think anybody that come for you goes. You had

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Speaker 2: what Adolf Menji, You had people in Hollywood come forward,

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Speaker 2: but even the people that came forward and name names

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Speaker 2: were smeared by the mainstream media being a rat.

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Speaker 1: You were an informer.

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Speaker 2: So this is the whole thing about being an informer,

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Speaker 2: even if you were accurate about these people being communists, right,

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Speaker 2: it was the whole stinch of being an informer.

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Speaker 1: There were two blacklists, and we only hear about one

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Speaker 1: of them. We hear about the blacklist of the accused communists.

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Speaker 1: We don't hear about the blacklist of the witnesses who

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Speaker 1: never got work again because they came out and testified.

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Speaker 1: I Rand actually came out of that politic, so we

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Speaker 1: can get to that later. Because she was an age.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe you take these views on everything.

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Speaker 2: You're this is how politics has changed so much in

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Speaker 2: the country. You're a secular Jewish liberal from the New

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Speaker 2: York Times. You're saying things that in a couple of

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Speaker 2: years ago the progressive lets say those are lies. You're

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Speaker 2: just lying about. Eye of Stone is still still remember

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Speaker 2: out your hiss is still a fight. It's still an

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Speaker 2: intellectual fight. How did you get through your life by

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Speaker 2: coming out and writing about this and actually telling the truth.

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Speaker 1: Of the story. You know, one of my this is

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Speaker 1: how much culture and politics have changed in this nation. Well,

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Speaker 1: they have changed, and they were starting to then. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what the thing that worked in my advantage was I

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Speaker 1: started writing about Chambers in the early nineties after the

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Speaker 1: Soviet Union collapse. Remember, there was that period when people

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Speaker 1: were rethinking a lot of this and heroes were people

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Speaker 1: like that, And they.

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Speaker 2: Opened up the KGB five, they opened up the archives,

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Speaker 2: and we opened the bar ar. Yes, yeah, so you've

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Speaker 2: got the real story. But we get the real story.

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Speaker 2: And there was enough respect in that era for that

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Speaker 2: kind of research that Soulcie Nichen thought. He got over here,

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Speaker 2: thought we were a mess. He thought we were too weak. Right,

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Speaker 2: he got over his this is not going to save

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Speaker 2: the West. Word America is declined to He's the first

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Speaker 2: one to really like an Old Testament prophet social told

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Speaker 2: us about the weakness of the West.

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Speaker 1: He made the same argument the Buckley and Chambers and

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Speaker 1: those in Buchanan later and those early great anti communists

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Speaker 1: made the country is weak, it has no moral spirit,

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Speaker 1: has no fiber. We're repudiating our own identity. I mean

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Speaker 1: all this stuff. Socialist said that at Harvard comment.

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Speaker 2: Commencement. I mean, it's unthinkable today. Then he went to Vermont.

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Speaker 2: He said this place is a disaster.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's ready. He went up to Vermont. Remember

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Speaker 1: David Remnick went and interviewed him. David Remnick is a

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Speaker 1: guy who gets a lot of this stuff and and.

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Speaker 4: We have some very Lennon's tomb is Lenons is fantastic

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Speaker 4: and I can't do it here, but but I'll show

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Speaker 4: you the note Remnic sent me about this book and

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Speaker 4: Chambers he sent me not long ago, and basically like

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Speaker 4: this is the history nobody is told that needs to

433
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 4: be told and will be there forever.

434
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 1: He says, Forget everything else, forget what the critics say

435
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 1: all this. But there's another guy who's really important to me.

436
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 1: Is a guy I know not well, but I've written

437
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: about him and I've met him a few times.

438
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 2: Is Robert Carroll and the series on London Johnson Johnson

439
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: before The Power Broker and The Power Broker when you

440
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 2: want to learn about New York City when Greg Carter

441
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 2: Robert Moses howired me this is a Robert Caro type.

442
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 1: I am pleased to say that more than one reviewer

443
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: has said that. And what I'm really proud of it's

444
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: so detail about every aspect, Like that's what folks.

445
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 2: It's a thousand pages, so you're going to get your

446
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 2: money's worth. But it's a page turner because you're learning

447
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 2: about American history.

448
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: As you go. It's not.

449
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 2: It's the story of America as told through the actions

450
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 2: the human agency of one person.

451
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: That's what I learned from Bob Carroll. You know, his

452
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: books are called as you know, the Years of Lyndon Jones.

453
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 1: So what I think if the books I write as

454
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: being these two big ones, but you.

455
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 2: Don't go to the public library. He's one of those

456
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 2: guys at the New York Public Library that has the cubicle.

457
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: There's like ten guys that can they do it out

458
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: you know what. Yeah, he doesn't do that anymore. I lived.

459
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: I lived across the street from the New York Public Life. Yeah,

460
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 1: I loved it. That's how I some of chambers.

461
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 2: We lived in Tesla's right next to Tesla's lamp on

462
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 2: Tesla Way.

463
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 1: That's all I really.

464
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 2: Engineer's Club turned into a Senate co ops because those

465
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 2: are the guys that couldn't get into the Harvard Yale,

466
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 2: the University Club because they hadn't gone to Ivy League schools.

467
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 2: They had but you know west as Carnel Yard, So

468
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,959
Speaker 2: they started the Engineer's Club. Tesla was part of that,

469
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 2: and that's right across from the New York Public Library,

470
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 2: which is a magnificent You just go over there and

471
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 2: get lost in reading all day. And they were one

472
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 2: of the groups in the basement I think is they

473
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 2: have a ten writers they allowed to be in residence

474
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 2: to kind of get a little cubicle and work.

475
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: Then I never got that. I never applied for it.

476
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: Probably wouldn't have gotten it. But when I was working

477
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: on Whittiker Chambers a long time agoing in my thirties,

478
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: I would go to the New York Public Library, and

479
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: that's the other giants there. You'd see Norman Mahler sitting

480
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,959
Speaker 1: at a table just reading a book. You just couldn't

481
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: believe what you would see it back then. And and

482
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: those are the days, you know, they dig the stuff

483
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,719
Speaker 1: out of the archive. And they said it too, they

484
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 1: bring up the book. That's why I first read Bill

485
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: Buckley's magnificent Essay on Whittaker Chambers was a New York

486
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: Public Library. Nothing was digitized. It was an Esquire magazine.

487
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you something. You ask me, why do

488
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 1: I do this? Though? I grew up on a household

489
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 1: that didn't think a lot of Bill Buckley. And then

490
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: a couple of things turned me around on him. And

491
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: one was when I was working on Chambers. I went

492
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: to the New York Public Library and I read an

493
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: essay in Esquire magazine. It was actually the first piece

494
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: Bill Buckley published there, though I didn't learn that much later,

495
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: called the End of Whittaker Chambers. It was a memoir

496
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: about him, interspersed with letters, and I realized, this guy'sn't

497
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: like an exquisite writer. Why did anybody tell me this?

498
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: You know? And you sort of get mad in retrospect.

499
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: There's nobody in front of a classroom who's going to say,

500
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: by the way, by the way, you know, I might

501
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: want to look at Bill Buckley's memoir Cruising Speed to

502
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: see what great journalism is like. Nobody says this. You

503
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: have to find out.

504
00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: He the we're gonna take a short break here. We're

505
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: going to have to extend this a couple hours. So

506
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: what we're going to do is to have you back.

507
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 2: This is our weekend show, and we're going to have

508
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: you back. We'll figure it out. Because Buckley, that's why

509
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 2: he wrote God and Man at Yale, because he saw

510
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 2: even then the professors how they were trying to twist things,

511
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 2: which was a traditional you know they I've given this

512
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: book as a gift to some of the most senior

513
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: people in this administration who went to Yale right to

514
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 2: say how shocking it is because right now, you know,

515
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 2: they're taking the names off buildings and transgenderism so big,

516
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 2: and they're doing pronouns. I go, guys, back in the

517
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 2: old days, and I'm talking the nineteen fifties.

518
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: Ninety four is nineteen fifties. It was a different place.

519
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

520
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 2: Sam Tannehouse really the biographer of America pre World War Two,

521
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 2: all the way through the conservative movement. He's done it

522
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 2: in three magnificent books, wor Aker, Chambers, Buckley, and The

523
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 2: Death of Conservatism.

524
00:26:52,600 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: Is our guest. We'll be back in a moment War Room.

525
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: Here's your host, Stephen K. Bah White, focused on the typewriter.

526
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: Do this for a reason.

527
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 2: The typewriter becomes by the way, We're going to do

528
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 2: another at least couple hours with Sam, and we're going

529
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 2: to figure the schedule out. Why is the typewriter the

530
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 2: farm in Maryland? Why is all this important? And it

531
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: leads to the beginning of one of the most important

532
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 2: presidencies in this country, Richard Nixon's well, what happened when

533
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 2: we're in nineteen forty nineteen forty eight, nineteen forty eight,

534
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: summer of nineteen forty eight, there's an election coming and

535
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: the Republicans think they might lose the House in forty eight,

536
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 2: so here here's their chance. They want to quickly in

537
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 2: forty six as people are kind of tired of the war,

538
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 2: like they turfed out Churchill, and so you got they won,

539
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 2: They won that mid term and they take control. You

540
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 2: have HUAC and but now in forty eight, a lot

541
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 2: of people in the country going is this is what

542
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 2: we're spending our time on.

543
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, the Republicans don't have the strongest

544
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: candidate in Tom and Truman's actually a good campaigner, so

545
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: who knows what's going to happen. And you have coattails

546
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: and you're swept out of power. So Algi Hiss makes

547
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: his appearance and he's incredibly suave and debonair and so

548
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: there's a key moment, and he's everything they're hard right

549
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: hates personified, but everything that the kind of liberal mentality,

550
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: particularly the urban mettealit of New York City in San Francisco,

551
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 1: it's what the high ideal has been of an ivy

552
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: league globalist and New dealer, right, you know, he came

553
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 1: through the New Deal. He'd worked in all a lot

554
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: of the key departments involved, as we said before, in

555
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: the United Nations founding that, the ALTA Conference summit. All

556
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: this now he comes to from a very polished, smooth

557
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: guy and he seems kind of amused by it by

558
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: ith mister hiss. You know, so Writiker Chambers. Is he's

559
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: a senior rather a Time magazine. What he's calling you

560
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: a communist? So you sure you don't? You never communist?

561
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: And he's making it up and he says, well, I

562
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: don't know anybody named Wittiker Chambers. Is it really you?

563
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: You don't even know him? And his says, well, I've

564
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: seen pictures of him. I might even confuse him with you,

565
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: mister chairman in this committee, because the chairman's got this

566
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: round face. If the audience breaks up, laughs right laughs.

567
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: And he's passed on the newspapers.

568
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: One detail he's under oath, correct under this is this

569
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 2: is the leads up to the bunt.

570
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: He's under oath graduate of the Harvard Law School. And

571
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: there's a lawyer, a very smart young lawyer elected to

572
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: Congress from California, Orange County, a total outsider, thirty thirty

573
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: five year old guy, former naval officer, former naval officer,

574
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: and he's watching Hiss and he doesn't like him either

575
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: for all those reasons you met.

576
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 2: And later because Nixon's an outsider with a chip on

577
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 2: his shoulder and he's looking at the personification of the

578
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 2: establishment when Nick despies that just treat guys like Nixon

579
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 2: like nothing.

580
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: When Nixon was a young guy. We all know this

581
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: has been reported in all the biographies. You can always

582
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: tell the really interesting presidents because they get great books

583
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: written about them, including Nixon and Nixon when he was

584
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: a kid, was admitted, you know, coming from that little

585
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: town Yorba Linda, California's admitted to Harvard, but he's the

586
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: son of a grocery can't afford to go there, so

587
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: instead he goes to the local college witt here and

588
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: then he gets his law degree at Duke, finishes third

589
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 1: in his class, and the law firm will hire him.

590
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: Get a job. You can't get a job. The FBI

591
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't hire him. He tried to get a job there.

592
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: Nobody wants him. So here he is he's got He

593
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: was not cut the cut of the jew he was.

594
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 2: They were looking like they It's not just intellectual, you know,

595
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 2: you're the noun, you're the total opposite package.

596
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: It's Yeah, he's got nothing going for him, but he's very,

597
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: very smart, and he has a great word. He says,

598
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: there's something mouthy about Hiss. He says he's talking too much. Right,

599
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: there's this thing where somebody asks you the question, give

600
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: them the answer, don't make the joke about the chairman

601
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,479
Speaker 1: of the committee. And something sticks in Nixon's head. Also,

602
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: he is talking to Robert Stripling, the very smart investigator

603
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: who's been interviewing these communists for years, and he says

604
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: to Nixon, he's saying, he doesn't know a guy by

605
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: the name of Whittaker Chambers. Chambers isn't going to call

606
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: himself by his real name when he's an underground agent.

607
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: He's going to go by an alias. Right, So maybe

608
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: if we look closely at his transcript, he's not answering

609
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: the questions, he's evading them. So then a journalist guy

610
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: named Bert Andrews, a very smart journalist for the Herald

611
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: Tribune in New York. The Herald Tribune was the Republican

612
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: establishment's New York Times. It was like Time magazine, but

613
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: they had a smart journalist there named Bert Andrews who'd

614
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: been covering these investigations. And he calls Nixon a side.

615
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: He sees that Nixon means business here, and he says,

616
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: are you really investigating this case? What if? He says,

617
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: what if Chambers is telling the truth. Let's just make

618
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: this weird assumption that a guy who's throwing up, throwing

619
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: away a high paying job, a senior executive at Time

620
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: magazine might not make this stuff up unless he's got

621
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: a good reason for it. And that reason is he's

622
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: not making it up. He's telling the truth. He says, well,

623
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: have you really looked at his have you seen whether

624
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: the things Chambers said about him makes sense? So they

625
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: go out and the interview Chambers and he said, well,

626
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: he says, you don't know him. They go out to

627
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: Chambers's farm Maryland. Right, he has his little farm. He

628
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: and his wife are there, back to the earth types

629
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: like old ex socialists, right, Only Chambers really does it.

630
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: He doesn't just talk about it. He actually works in

631
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: a farm and his kids and his wife milks the cows.

632
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: Himself and all this because now he's a Quaker. He's

633
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: a Quaker, he's a believing Quaker. And he's doing that

634
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: when he's not going in a time magazine. He's actually

635
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: going home right, working in his farm. And they go

636
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: to see him, and Chamers says, well, I'm kind of

637
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: surprised to see you, guys when everybody else is calling

638
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: me names. And they say, well, we want you to

639
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,719
Speaker 1: prove that you knew Alger Hiss. I knew algr Hiss.

640
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: Here's the addresses we lived at. Here's the car I

641
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: loaned him when, or rather that his loaned me because

642
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: I didn't. I needed one to get around so I

643
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: could go back and forth and make the rounds. And

644
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: he goes to all this stuff.

645
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 2: He's done a courier that his actually loaning the car

646
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: so he could do this nefarious activity.

647
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: Important thing though Chambers does not yet say that Hiss

648
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: is passing him documents. All he says is, yeah, we

649
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: would meet in these cells. My wife Esther knew his

650
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: wife Priscilla very well. And Esther, who is a patron artist.

651
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: Oh yes, here's the dress Priscilla war you know when

652
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,479
Speaker 1: we went to her apartment once I had the baby there,

653
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: and the baby wet the floor, and she brought this

654
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: lovely little blanket for I think either and Bert andresses

655
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: to Nixon. Either this guy is a fantasist or he

656
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: really knew Alger Hiss. Because it's too detailed, he's got

657
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: too much stuff. So there's a funny thing that happens.

658
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: They start setting up more interviews. They do one with

659
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: Hiss in the what's now that Grand Hiatt, the first

660
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: Trump hotel. Back in those days there's a hotel Commodore,

661
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 1: and they call Hiss and Chambers in for meeting again

662
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: off the record.

663
00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 2: Now so it's not there executive session, executive session because

664
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: they understand and Nixon understands that what they have is

665
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 2: a game changer, and game changer for him politically. He

666
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 2: can come from a nobody to a national figure. Also,

667
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 2: they could actually take down real communists.

668
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, the story goes and other Huac

669
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: guy said this later Nixon was the only one who

670
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: really nailed the communist, who really got the guy. And

671
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: this is the reason this is all about. What this

672
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: is why they hated him. They hated him to the

673
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: mirror of his bones. And this is the reason they

674
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: hated him. You should see the letter Nixon wrote me

675
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: by hand before my book came out, when the Chambers book,

676
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: back in the nineties, when I was writing first op

677
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: ed pieces, I did one of the Times which Nixon

678
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: didn't read, didn't read, but he did read the one

679
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: in the Wall Street Journal, and he wrote me a

680
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: letter by hand. Who is the guy I'm drawing a

681
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: blank who wrote that great recent biography of Nixon? Uh,

682
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: you know the guy who also did He's a friend

683
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: of mine. Feeling embarrassed about this. It's a senior thing.

684
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 1: He wrote about it for you, about Tip O'Neil, Jack Ferrell,

685
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: John Farrell, and he quotes, yeah, Jack fre he quotes

686
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: that letter. It's a great biographer, Yeah, really good biography.

687
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: And he quotes the letter that Nixon wrote because I

688
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: put it in the Hoover Archive back when archives were

689
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: interested in my stuff, and they're not anymore, but they

690
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 1: were back then. The guy, a great guy, Robert Conquest.

691
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: I had no money, so I was able to sell

692
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: the Chambers Archive to the Hoover Institution. Well any rate,

693
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 1: So I have a copy of the letter that was

694
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: written by hand, and so I'm going to paraphrase it,

695
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: Nixon says something like, well, back in the day, he's

696
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: a prestige media. You know they were not going to

697
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: listen to a gull like he's remembering back to nineteen

698
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: forty eight, still with a chip on his shoulder, the

699
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: chip on his shoulder having been president.

700
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 2: Never give it up, man, You need that, You need

701
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: that fire.

702
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: People hate it when I say it, but it's really true.

703
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: Nixon is my favorite press he said one of.

704
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: My god, how do you even get into Do they

705
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 2: let you in restaurants in New York?

706
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 1: No? My own family doesn't understand that one.

707
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 2: And I think I don't want to hear Dershowitz whining

708
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 2: about his defense of Trump. You're going back to the

709
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 2: railhead of this. And I don't think he defended Buchanan.

710
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 2: You're defending Nixon. You just said Nixon's your favorite.

711
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I think he was the best president.

712
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: I think much of what he did was a lot

713
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: better than what he gets credit for. But he's my

714
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: favorite one. He's the one I identify with. I've met

715
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: a lot of people, a lot of the literary people

716
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: who told me their parents like Nixon. Often people from

717
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: other parts of the other countries because they say Nixon

718
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: was he outsider. Nixon was the one they never gave

719
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: a break to. Nixon's the introvert in the extroverts profession.

720
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: He doesn't have Trump's amazing public skills, although as you know,

721
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: Nixon liked Trump.

722
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,760
Speaker 2: That we're from Monica Crowley is now the ambass remporto.

723
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 2: That was Nixon's, you know, aide de campign.

724
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: Monica way back where much When did you writingose books

725
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 1: for Harry Evans? And so Nixon begins to realize there's

726
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 1: something very powerful about Chambers. Remember there are a few

727
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: Quakers in this case, including the Nickson. I didn't make

728
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: that connection. Yeah, and wow right, wow, Priscilla Hiss was

729
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: a Quaker. Alger I, there's a whole Quaker thing going on,

730
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: always inside stories and instinct. If we ever get to

731
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: Buckley and gore Vidal, I'll tell you there, no, no, no,

732
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: the Buckley stuffs got so much you will get hold

733
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 1: and platinum. So here we are. And so they start

734
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 1: gathering the the the evidence. So at one point there's

735
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: a really great moment in the his case Chambers, it said,

736
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: well alger and I were both He uses great term

737
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,919
Speaker 1: nobody uses anymore. He said, we were amateur ornithologists, said

738
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 1: bird observers. It sounds like Buckley didn't a bird watcher

739
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: said well, wen on the bird observers, we do it

740
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: here on the canal. And they say, oh, really yeah,

741
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: Chambers said, Algier once got really excited when we saw

742
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: a rare warbler, a prothonotary warbler. And there's one guy

743
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: on the HUAC committee got named John McDowell from Pennsylvania.

744
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: I think who is a bird watcher. They bring Hiss

745
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: in and he says, uh, mister Hiss, Uh, we know right,

746
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: we get it. You know you didn't know Chambers. You

747
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: told us all that, but tell us a little bit

748
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: a bit about yourself. Uh are you interested in birds?

749
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: And he says, oh yeah, and says you ever see

750
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: a prothonotary warbler? He said, you bet I did. I

751
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,720
Speaker 1: saw one right here in the canal. And like they'd

752
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: heard the story before, they'd heard it from Chambers, and

753
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: they're thinking, there's no way this guy makes up that

754
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: Alger Hiss had seen this bird that right, So it's

755
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: little details like that. He's a kind of yeah, and

756
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: you know, and I'll say we don't see that this

757
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: level of like exactitude with our legislators now on the committees.

758
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me?

759
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 2: We're gonna take a short break, Sam tennant House. The

760
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 2: book is Buckley. I want everybody to if you have

761
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 2: a young person first, I get it for yourself.

762
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

763
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 2: If you want to see kind of the lead up

764
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 2: to President Trump, and that's why death of Conservatism.

765
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that next time. Is really get.

766
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 2: My interests peaked back after the financial crisis in two

767
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 2: thousand and nine when I read this book and go, wow,

768
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,919
Speaker 2: this guy's nailed it. The problem with the Republican Party

769
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 2: and conservative ink back then. But Buckley's the book to

770
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 2: get now. Want to drive some sales on this particularly

771
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 2: give it the young people in your family college in

772
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: their twenties.

773
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: You sit and there go.

774
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 2: You don't think they know much there, but they're thirsting

775
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 2: for access to information.

776
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: Buckley's the book. Short commercial break back with Sam in

777
00:40:53,480 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: a moment we rejoice. Let's take down war room. Here's

778
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: your host, Stephen k back this book of rouh.

779
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 2: People have to think you're bringing right because this is

780
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 2: an heavy book and it's magnificent, reads like a novel.

781
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 2: It reads like you're reading a Russian I was like,

782
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 2: it's like Warren Peace because you're seeing the history, but

783
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: you bring these characters to life, not just Buckley, but McCarthy,

784
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 2: Jack Kennedy.

785
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:22,959
Speaker 1: Claire booth Loose.

786
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 2: You have these vignettes of these people and you realize

787
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 2: why they made such a big.

788
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 1: Impact in American history.

789
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: The book is Buckley, The Life and the Revolution that

790
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 2: changed America, and it leads you right up to the

791
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 2: age of Trump.

792
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: I want to finish.

793
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 2: We're going to have you back on in this coming week,

794
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 2: but I want to have you because we can do

795
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 2: this for hours.

796
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: I want to finish the.

797
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: Pumpkin story because you see Nixon, you see Whittaker, Chambers, Hiss,

798
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 2: the whole establisher. This is one of the biggest moments

799
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 2: in post war history about this committee.

800
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what happened is they start seeing the evidence

801
00:41:58,120 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: and they think, okay.

802
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 2: The bird watching thing gets the guys in the committee

803
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 2: realized this guy's lying under oath.

804
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: They're purging himself, and then they start doing the research.

805
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: And that's what they were good at back then. And

806
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: see when we've been talking about this before. In those days,

807
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: the Congressional committee would really do the work. And they

808
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: started like today, they were serious people, serious people that

809
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: are hunting down car leases. They see h Chambers at

810
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 1: one point that Hiss had given him, had had given

811
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: him a car which they found. And Hiss admitted that

812
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: had given him the car, but he said Chambers had

813
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: known him under a different name. He'd known Chambers under

814
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: a different name, George Crosley, and all this stuff is

815
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 1: starting to pile up, and so and they realized that,

816
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: well they've got one thing. They know that Hiss is

817
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 1: lying about whether he knew Chambers, But how does that

818
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: prove that he'd known him as a communist? And so

819
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: they say to Chambers, look, we get it, we get

820
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,959
Speaker 1: it that, yeah, Hiss is lying. We know it. Now

821
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: we can call him, call him up in front of

822
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: a committee again and say that you know Whittaker Chambers

823
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: and he might have to say, well, maybe his memory

824
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: had slip, but he'd known him, so what. And so

825
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: there's a great confrontation there. This is one that brings

826
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: tears to grown men's eyes. Is they have ten they

827
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: have a big public meeting now in the caucus room house,

828
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: Cockers Room, television cameras there Steve nineteen forty eight. At

829
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,720
Speaker 1: that point, ten thousand people in America own TVs. Bars

830
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: the bars, bars have them, Yeah, bars have them. So

831
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: they go in, they watch, and there's his again, and

832
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: he's denying he knows Chambers, and he looks at him.

833
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: Chambers is sitting there and he looks at him with

834
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: his kind of contempt. And then they bring the Chambers

835
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: up and they said, look what he's saying by you

836
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: saying that the insinuations are out there, that they're now.

837
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: They don't say this publicly what the insinuations are, but

838
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: the press world knows what they are. The media establishment

839
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: very small and one Washington much smaller town. Everybody knows.

840
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: The communists and liberals they respect are saying, well, I

841
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: know Chambers a Time magazine. The guy's a total paranoid.

842
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: You know, my copy would come in from China, he

843
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,720
Speaker 1: turn it upside down. He's some kind of anti communist

844
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: fanatic or or you know, he seems to come in

845
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: in strange hours. I think he's out drinking all the time.

846
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: So they start spending all these lives about him. Say

847
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: so what about this? Why are you going after out

848
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:33,439
Speaker 1: your hiss why have you chosen to persecute this man?

849
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: And Chambers then says what you would expect him to

850
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 1: say now is what we hear President Trump and people

851
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: around say, fu right, But that's not what Chambers does.

852
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: Chambers says, in testifying against mister Hiss, people are saying

853
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: that I'm acting out of some grudge or personal animosity

854
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: toward him. Said, I'm not. I knew mister Hiss, and

855
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: I liked him. I still like him, but he and

856
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: I are caught in a tragedy of history, and so

857
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: help me God, I have no choice but to testify now.

858
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: And Steve, you know your religious history, he says, I

859
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: can't do otherwise. He's doing Martin Luther right ishkannichanders, I

860
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: can't do otherwise. So then they say, all right, we

861
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: get it, we believe you. Nixon and the others are

862
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: saying they're headlines ever where. This is dominating on the news.

863
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: But you've got to prove he's a communist. So okay.

864
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,879
Speaker 1: Now Chambers is afraid that he's not going to make

865
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 1: his case, and also the other side is going to

866
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: come after him, and he remembers something that when he

867
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: defected from the party before nineteen thirty nine and nineteen

868
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: thirty eight. He'd kept some materially at it, called it

869
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: as life Preserver, and he gave it to a relative

870
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 1: of his wife's. She kept it in a dumb waiter

871
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn Sheep and they go in. The eight goes

872
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 1: with this young guy. They dig through the dumb waiter

873
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: and they have a Manila envelope and inside it are documents,

874
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: and those are typed documents that are secret classified information.

875
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: And by this time Hiss has made the stupid mistake

876
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: of suing Chambers for slander. Chamber says, to defend himself,

877
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: and he looks at his lawyer and he says, well,

878
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: I've got something different for you. Now.

879
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 3: This is one of my chapters. And he says, what

880
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 3: is it? Chamber says, espionage. And that's when he delivers

881
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 3: the documents. So now it gets to the HUAC people.

882
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 3: They have to Nixon. They have handwritten documents and type documents,

883
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 3: and they say, do you have anything else? Chambers says,

884
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 3: all right, you can come out to my farm and

885
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 3: I'll show you something else I've got. So at night

886
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 3: they drive out to Chambers's farm in Maryland, Westminster, Maryland.

887
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: He walks them out. It's it's winter, it's December, now

888
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: forty eight, the election's already been held. Republicans are not

889
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: going to control the House anymore, and somebody, either his

890
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 1: or Chambers is going to be indicted for perjury. Chambers

891
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 1: takes them out to a pumpkin patch and he pulls

892
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: out a pumpkin with a hollowed with a right Jack o'

893
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 1: lantern with a hollowed out middle, and he pulled He said, gentlemen,

894
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 1: I think this is what you're looking for. They're ten

895
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: canisters of microfilm that he's got from out.

896
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 2: There is We're going to bring you back in this

897
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: coming week. This has been amazing. The book is Buckley.

898
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 2: We've only DoD the lead up to it. The Buckley

899
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 2: stories will just blow your mind. Where do people go?

900
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 2: Do you have social media? You have a website?

901
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: I have a websiteannounced dot Samtannehouse dot com. All one word.

902
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 1: The book is Buckley.

903
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 2: Today on a Saturday afternoon, maybe the day you go

904
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 2: out to a bookstore and get it, or go to

905
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 2: Amazon in order. I'm probably sold out at your local bookstore,

906
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,359
Speaker 2: but if not, go to Barnes and Noble check it out,

907
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 2: or a local.

908
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: We love little the small independent bookstores. Go check it

909
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 1: out or go to Amazon.

910
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 2: Get the book, give it as a gift to friends.

911
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 2: You've got to basically your children, your grandchildren, make sure

912
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 2: they fully understand what America has gone through. The Man

913
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 2: in the Revolution, Buckley's the Book. Sam Tannanhouse. So honored

914
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 2: have you in here, look forward to having you back

915
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 2: next week. You're actually a right I realized something about

916
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 2: two thirds away thing. You're actually a right winger. You're

917
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 2: a right wing. We're gonna talk about it later. Other

918
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 2: people have excused you that to guys, have a great weekend.

919
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 2: We're going to be back here at ten am Eastern

920
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 2: Standard Time on Monday. I'll be up on Ghetter on

921
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 2: social media all weekend, putting up on another action pack weekend,

922
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 2: all my thoughts and observations.

923
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: See you back here Monday,