1 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't 2 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: a liability, it's a real gift. If we don't know 3 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: something about ourselves at this point in our life, it's 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: probably because it's uncomfortable to know. 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: If you can die before you die, then you can 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 2: really live. 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: There's a wisdom at death's door. I thought I was insane. Yeah, 8 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: and I didn't know what to do because there was 9 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: no internet. I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel 10 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: like everything is hard. 11 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a human first 12 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 2: and a licensed therapist second. And right now I'm inviting 13 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: you into conversations that I hope encourage you to become 14 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 2: more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others, and the 15 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: world around you. 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to You Need Therapy. Hi guys, and welcome to 17 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: a new episode of You Need Therapy podcast. My name 18 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: is Kat. I am the host. And if you're new 19 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: and you haven't heard this yet, just wanted to give 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 1: a quick disclaimer before we get into the episode that 21 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: although this podcast is hosted by a licensed therapist myself 22 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: and it's called You Need Therapy, it does not serve 23 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: as a replacement or substitute for any actual mental health services, 24 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: but we always, always, always, always hope that it can 25 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: help you in some way and somehow wherever you are 26 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: on whatever journey you are on. So today I am 27 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: sort of introing you guys into a new series that 28 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: is going to be ongoing. I'm going to keep it 29 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: open ended, so as more topics around this come up, 30 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: we can record them and we can just keep it 31 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: going because it's one of those topics that I really 32 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: think is never ending. And the series is called this 33 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: is for the Therapists. Now, just because it's for the 34 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: therapist doesn't mean that everybody will not get something out 35 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: of it. I think it can be helpful. And as 36 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: I'll talk about today, the thing that I'm focusing on 37 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: today does not just apply to therapists, but it is 38 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: something that a lot of people in the therapy space 39 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: will encounter or struggle with or feel at some point. 40 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: And so basically the series is going to be episodes 41 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: geared toward therapists, discussing more so person of the therapist, 42 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: things things that affect our humanness as therapists and aren't 43 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: just textbook, you know, different kinds of modalities or theories 44 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: or stuff like that that we can just simply learn 45 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: about in a more academic sense. They are more human 46 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: felt things. And if that description is confusing, things that 47 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about are going to include how 48 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: to repair when we mess up, and what it's like 49 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: to kind of have a rupture in the therapeutic relationship, 50 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: how to balance having a personal social media presence and 51 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: also being a therapist who wants privacy and wants to 52 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: maintain a professional sense. And even with that, if you 53 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: do want to have a professional social media presence, what 54 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: does that look like? What are the boundaries that people 55 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: should have, because I mean, there is no rule book 56 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: on that self disclosure right, when to know that it's 57 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: safe and appropriate to share something with a client, and 58 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: what do you do if you overshare? That even goes 59 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: into the repair stuff. And then also things like when 60 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: your personal beliefs or political stances clash with clients and 61 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: what happens when that comes into the room. What do 62 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: you do with that? So that's kind of examples of 63 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: what we're going to be talking about in this series today, 64 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: Like I said, kind of serves as an intro for 65 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: the entirety of these kinds of episodes, and it is 66 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: based on the thing, the thought, the moment that really 67 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: inspired me to do this series and up with this series, 68 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: and it's the thought that pops into our brains from 69 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: time to time, asking are you really any good at this? 70 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: And do you even know what you're doing? Are you 71 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,799 Speaker 1: a fraud? Do you stuck at your job? And today 72 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: we are talking about some of the imposter syndrome esque 73 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: stuff that comes up around being a therapist and better yet, 74 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: a good therapist. Being a therapist, to me is such 75 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: a strange experience. I don't really have the right words 76 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: to describe exactly what I'm feeling in my body around this, 77 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: and I don't have a lot to compare it to 78 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: because this is the only career I've ever had. I've 79 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,239 Speaker 1: in college and in high school, I was a sales 80 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: associate at stores like Limited to shout out, but this 81 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: is the only real career that I I don't want 82 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: to say I didn't care about my job at Limited too, 83 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: because I was a rule follower and if I was 84 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: supposed to be there, I would be there and I 85 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: was going to do a good job. But it it 86 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: wasn't something that I think I really cared to grow 87 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: and longevity do well in And so I don't have 88 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: a lot to compare what I'm saying in this is 89 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: all I know career. Why So that's why I know 90 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: some of the stuff is going to translate into other 91 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: people's lives, other people's careers. But as a therapist, there's 92 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: just this unique blend of skill and knowledge and personality 93 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: woven within what we do. And because each human is 94 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: unique in their own design, our work has to constantly 95 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: be reinterpreted, reimagined, shifted, changed. And it's not just like 96 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 1: we go to school and we learn this thing and 97 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: then we apply it. Like my head, I'm making up 98 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: a computer science. You learn this code and then you 99 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: go and like put this code in and the code 100 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: works until something changes about the computers, and then you 101 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: learn a new code. It's we learn this code, and 102 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: then we have to adapt that code to the different 103 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: experiences we have and the different people that we work with, 104 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: and what works over here might not work over there. 105 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: And the amount of flexibility and intuitiveness that we need 106 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: to learn and lean into can sometimes feel a bit overwhelming, 107 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: especially especially in the beginning right, especially if you're a 108 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: perfectionist or you just go in thinking that it's going 109 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: to be one way. Man, that was tough. You learn 110 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 1: a theory and then you're like, this theory doesn't fit exactly. 111 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: Why can't I comprehend it? And it's because the theory 112 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: is of somewhat of a framework, and it's not an equation. 113 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: The equation has to be shifted and changed and adapted. 114 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: But if I think we're honest with ourselves, no matter 115 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: if you're new at this, no matter how long you've 116 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: been doing this work, we all get moments where we 117 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: ask ourselves some form of do I suck at this? 118 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: And I actually had one of those moments a couple 119 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,239 Speaker 1: of weeks ago. I had started watching the show called 120 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: Couple's Therapy. It's on Paramount Plus. A client had told 121 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: me about this show and I had trouble finding it. 122 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: But it's on Paramount Plus. I think you can watch 123 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: other places if you pay. But then when I watched it, 124 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: I got sucked in. It's such a good show. And 125 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: while it is a TV show and I can't assume 126 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: that it's one hundred percent real and authentic, I do 127 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: really love the therapist and I like what and how she's 128 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: has created this show and I heard her say one 129 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: of the reasons she wanted to create is to show 130 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: the reality that therapy isn't always so salacious. It can 131 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: be very slow, and the process isn't always riveting. And 132 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: in these episodes, I noticed that the therapist would just 133 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: say the most simple things, and then the most magical 134 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: experiences would happen. And now when I say magical, I 135 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: don't mean like actually magic or poof all of a sudden, 136 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: like their problems were fixed by just reflecting what she 137 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: would saying. But these really special and meaningful moments would 138 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: be had that opened up a window for these clients 139 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: going to see her. And I just got stuck on 140 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: how these very seemingly simple, simple, simple interventions would allow 141 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: clients to gain so much insight, And I immediately started 142 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: to compare myself. One of the things that she said 143 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: that I loved so much. She was in this back 144 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: and forth with a client who was pretty I don't 145 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: want to use the word combative, but he just would 146 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: not allow her to really help or hear him or 147 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: understand him. And so she said something along the lines 148 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: of I'm noticing that it's really hard to get it 149 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: right with you. Do you feel that that people have 150 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: a hard time saying the right thing, which was what 151 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: happened after was so interesting to me. And another moment 152 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: that set out that she created was when there was 153 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: a couple and it was a heterosexual couple and the 154 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: man was struggling to just be direct and he kept 155 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: kind of sugarcoating things versus just answering her question. And 156 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: she noticed, I mean that he was trying to protect 157 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: her feelings, and she said, you need to say the 158 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: truth and she needs to hear the truth. And I 159 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: was like, what, Like that is such a simple sentence, 160 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: but I just was like, this is so meaningful, and 161 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: you saying that opened up such a space for work 162 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: to be done. And I just sat there saying, like, dang, 163 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: sometimes I really overcomplicate my job. And I spent too 164 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: much time in my head conceptualizing versus just being and 165 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: saying what is there in the moment. And I think 166 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: we do that at times for all kinds of reasons, 167 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: and I think for me, one of the reasons that 168 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 1: comes up is battling the imposter syndrome moments right, focusing 169 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: too much on being a good therapist and finding some 170 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: kind of of solution and being worthwhile and valuable that 171 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: I overcomplicate and overthink things versus just staying with the 172 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: client in the moment and seeing where it leads us 173 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: and letting really the client be the leader of that work. 174 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: And what sticks out here for me is the thought 175 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: because I didn't think like her, does that mean I'm 176 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: not good? And what sticks out here for me is 177 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: the thought because I didn't think like her, does that 178 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: mean I'm not good? Am I not as good as her? 179 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: And what does that say about me? It's kind of 180 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: extreme as I'm sitting here talking about it now, and 181 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: I think this kind of thing happens a lot during 182 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: things like supervision or case consultations. This idea that a 183 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: colleague gives insight or says things, or offers help or 184 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: another way to think of something, or shares what they 185 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: would have done in a situation, And sometimes our immediate 186 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: response can be, well, so why can't I think of that? 187 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: Or why didn't I think of that? Versus this is 188 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: really helpful collaboration. Sometimes it's really helpful to have another 189 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: brain get in here who might be more distant or 190 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: not as close to the relationships I'm working with. I 191 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: was also talking to a therapist friend recently about a 192 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: repair that she had made with a client, and she 193 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: told the story that after kind of sticking her foot 194 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: in her mouth and saying something that she immediately regretted, 195 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: instead of ignoring that or pretending like it didn't happen, 196 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: or just kind of letting that go over their heads, 197 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: she addressed it and she made a repair, and she 198 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: apologized to this client and honored and owned that she 199 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: messed up and she should have been more careful or 200 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: what have you, whatever she said to this client, and 201 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: she talked about how it just gave so much space 202 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: for the client to receive a type of care that 203 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: this client maybe did not have in their life outside 204 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: of that relationship and the mess up or the real 205 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: human part of the therapists showed up and gave an 206 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: opportunity for a client to receive something that meant way 207 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: more than the damage and the pain of the rupture. 208 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: And it was so helpful for me to hear her 209 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: say that, because instead of, you know, having a moment 210 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: like that and kind of wanting to crawl under a 211 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: table and never tell anybody, she shared that with me 212 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: and shared it as a way to grow and be 213 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: better versus we have to show up and kind of 214 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: puff our chests around our colleagues. We get to be 215 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 1: humans with each other, so we then feel more safe 216 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: being humans ourselves. And I want to create space. Where 217 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: as therapists, we can show up in that way more 218 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: often because shame tells us don't mess up and don't 219 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: let anybody see you mess up, and it brings about 220 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: this type of anxiety that festers into not allowing us 221 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: to really reach our full potential as therapist. When we 222 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: focus on not messing up, we are less likely to 223 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: take risks. And while we need to be mindful of 224 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: the type of risks we take, the willingness to get 225 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: it wrong is often what leads us to helping our 226 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: clients get it right. And if we are showing up 227 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: only being this very created, perfect type of thing, I 228 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: don't know that that's creating the space to allow the 229 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: magic that happens within therapy to happen. Right. It doesn't 230 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: happen within an equation, It happens within the variations of 231 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: that equation. I really do think, if we're honest, we 232 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: all have sessions where afterwards we think things like what 233 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: just happened? Why was that? So weird. Did I push 234 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: too much? Did I not push enough? Why did I 235 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: back away from that confrontation? Why was I so awkward 236 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: or why was that so awkward? Or dang it? Like 237 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: I really did not know what to say there, And 238 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: I used to have this story in my head that 239 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: as a therapist, we can't have bad days and we 240 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: can't have moments where we don't know what to say. 241 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 1: Now I don't know that every time we don't know 242 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: what to say, we need to just call out and 243 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: say I don't know what to say. I think there's 244 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: nuance in how we handle those, but we're allowed to 245 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: address the fact that we don't always have the right 246 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: answer at the time that we want to have it. 247 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: The story that sometimes get in our heads that says 248 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: we aren't allowed to have those bad days has to 249 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: kind of be unraveled. And I can't imagine what being 250 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: like a doctor or a surgeon is like. And if 251 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: that's you, please, I would love to know what they 252 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: teach you and how they teach you to handle the 253 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: pressure in the stress of having to be prefer all 254 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: the time, because I think that's a different type of responsibility. 255 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: But this idea of paranoia to get it right and 256 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: to do a good job always. I know is not 257 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: unique to mental health professionals. It's in the air really 258 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: of our culture, and then it trickles into our I think, 259 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: our different spaces, and then we don't talk about it, 260 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: so then it does feel like it's unique to us. 261 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: And I had Amanda Montel on the show a couple 262 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: months ago to talk about her book, The Age of 263 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: Magical Overthinking, and I've talked about her a lot on 264 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: this show because I love a lot of what she 265 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: does and the thoughts she has and the things she brings. 266 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: And she wrote about something called overconfidence bias in a 267 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: chapter in that book, The Age of Magical Overthinking, and 268 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: this chapter was especially interesting to me. And as I 269 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: was going back and looking at things she has talked 270 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: about regarding this cognitive bias, I found and came across 271 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: this article from CNBC looking at some of what she said. 272 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: And in the article, it says most workplaces emphasize achievement, 273 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: not learning. We are not incentivized to admit when our 274 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: knowledge ends. Montel says, humility is not rewarded, but you're 275 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: unlikely to grow as an employee or a person if 276 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: you're not willing to acknowledge you haven't mastered certain skills. 277 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: Overconfidence bias can also exacerbate imposter syndrome and cause an 278 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: incredible amount of overthinking. Approaching work with more curiosity will 279 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: ultimately benefit you. Montel says, becoming aware of our own 280 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: limits is not only humbling but interesting. And I just 281 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: want to take a second to talk about this here, 282 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: because this weird phenomenon happens when we own our limitations 283 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: versus avoid them, we actually get better, not way worse. 284 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: It's kind of strange to think about not being good 285 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: at something allows the space for you to get good 286 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: at it. It doesn't make you worse, it doesn't make 287 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: the thing that's already reality worse reality. It just allows 288 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: you the space to actually shift and change and grow 289 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: and do something with that limitation. And as I was 290 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: reading the chapter of this book. When I read the book, 291 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: I originally thought, well, this chapter is not going to 292 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: apply to me because I feel more prone to imposters 293 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: and drum then over confidence. And then I smiled when 294 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: she tied them both together, and I felt she was 295 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: like calling me out from the pages. And in the 296 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: book she said, if we are not professionally thriving, then 297 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: we must be worthless. And if we are thriving, then 298 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: we must be frauds. And it is this cycle of 299 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: if we don't know everything, then we're dumb, and if 300 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: we know everything, we must be lying to ourselves, like 301 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: we don't leave space to win, and I highlighted it's 302 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: one of the things that stuck out in the whole 303 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: book to me the most, a part where she said 304 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: we cannot perceive self doubt as a weakness, and we 305 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: shouldn't demand undying certainty even from experts, or they will 306 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: surely bullshit us in order to meet that expectation. And 307 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: in the margins of the book, I wrote next to 308 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: that quote, feelings of inferiority might be my accurate feelings 309 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: of knowing my limits. However, the expectation to know it 310 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: all creates this forced idea that I know nothing or 311 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: I'm faking it. I'm overconfident when I don't think people 312 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: can call out the bullshit, and I become the dumbest 313 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: person alive when there is someone around me that could 314 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: point out a discrepancy. And that just felt so real 315 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: to me, like this idea that to be good you 316 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: have to be all knowing, and if you aren't all knowing, 317 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: you aren't good. Forces us into these spaces where to 318 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: be seen as reputable, we have to kind of fake it. 319 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: Like it's the like pressure of fake it till you 320 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 1: make it. But we fake it too much or we 321 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: don't allow our space self space to even be in 322 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: the conversation because if I'm not faking it till I 323 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: make it, then that means that I'm a loser and 324 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: I know nothing, and who's going to listen to me? 325 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: Like that is an impossible place to be, an impossible 326 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: place to work from. And we can't not have bad days, 327 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: not because we need them, but because they happen as 328 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: a result of being a human being. We have limitations 329 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: as a result of being a human being. We cannot 330 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: be the expert of everything all the time. We can't 331 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: know everything, and the idea that we don't know everything 332 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: comes to us when we learn more. Right, the more 333 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,199 Speaker 1: we learn about ourselves, about the world, about the people 334 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: around us, the more we realize there is so much 335 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: that we don't know and that we can't know. But 336 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: it feels like acknowledging that threatens the validity of the 337 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: stuff that we do know, and that, just to me, 338 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: can't continue to be the truth that we spin in. 339 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: We can try our best and we're still going to 340 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: have bad days, and as much as I wish that 341 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: was not true, sometimes we're just going to show up 342 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: as a little off because we are human beings. Sometimes 343 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: we're going to read things wrong. Sometimes we're going to 344 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 1: say the wrong thing. And yes, sometimes we can get 345 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: ahead of that. And if stuff is happening in our 346 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: lives and it makes us, it makes it impossible for 347 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 1: us to really show up well for our clients as 348 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: therapists when it's possible we're going, we need to own 349 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: that we should take some time off so we are 350 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: not causing harm one of the parts of our ethical guidelines, right, 351 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: And sometimes we have a bad day or off session 352 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 1: just because we do and we can't see it coming 353 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: a client stumps us because we're human and we're limited. 354 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: And so instead of saying, wow, I stuck at my job, 355 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: what if we used it for good? Like my friend 356 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: who told me about the repair that she made. I 357 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: had another friend who is not a therapist but goes 358 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: to therapy, and she called me one day because she 359 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 1: got an email from her therapist apologizing for something that 360 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: she did in a session. And I don't remember exactly 361 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: the context and what had happened. I want to say 362 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: it was a very general like I'm sorry. I realized 363 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: that was not in my a game in our session, 364 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: and I want to own that. My friend called to 365 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: ask me, like, is this normal? Do people do this? 366 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: And well, I don't know that it's normal. I still 367 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: and I think it was wonderful. And instead of holding 368 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: shame or trying to do some kind of mental gymnastics 369 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: to ignore the reality that maybe the therapist was weird 370 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: in that session, she called it out and just owned 371 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: it right. She didn't try to maintain this idea that 372 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: I can't be wrong because I'm the therapist, or I 373 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: can't it was them and not me. She owned her 374 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: part of it. In what a gift, especially depending on 375 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: the client story, right to hear somebody take responsibility in 376 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: that way so naturally and then the relationship have the 377 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: ability to become better for it could have been a 378 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: really huge lesson for that client to have or experience 379 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: for that client to have. Now, another thing that pops 380 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: in my head when I'm thinking about this, like do 381 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: I suck aut my job in this knee jerk reaction 382 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 1: to lean into the imposter syndrome is this almost elixir 383 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: that is passed around within the therapist's community by way 384 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: of this imposed superior or in some cases, I think 385 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: this is where the overconfidence bias really comes into play, 386 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: where instead of leaning into the I know nothing, it's 387 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: that I know everything and I'm right and what I 388 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: think is the best and what I think is always right. 389 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: And there's so many modalities, there's so many theories, there's 390 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: so many ways to work as a clinician in the 391 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: mental health field, and of course you're going to think 392 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: that the way you work is the best way, because 393 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: why else would you be using that theory or framework 394 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: or modality. But at the same time, that can cause 395 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: a lot of chaos at times, at least it does 396 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: in my world. And the easiest way for me to 397 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: describe this is if you're a therapist and you've been 398 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: to a training recently, and it could just be me, 399 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 1: but sometimes I feel like we're all out there trying 400 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 1: to like peacock and prove or show off, or you know, 401 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: we're trying to find what other people are doing wrong 402 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,360 Speaker 1: to like pump our own belief around what we're doing 403 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: right up, and I don't know. It sometimes feels like 404 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to speak in those spaces because I'm 405 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: afraid that somebody's going to call me out. Versus us 406 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: learn from each other and us hear each other in 407 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: the different ways that we think in that different ways 408 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: that we can steptualize clients in cases and stuff like that. Now, 409 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 1: I will say this with a caveat that sometimes we 410 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,959 Speaker 1: need to be called out or called in because there 411 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: are some things that are just cuckoo that no therapists 412 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: should be doing. But a lot of times I think 413 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: there might be this underlying threat of like there's something 414 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 1: to prove in those spaces a lot, which is why 415 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: a lot of times I sit in the back. I 416 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 1: kind of just want to be a fly on the 417 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: wall in those spaces. And I'm not saying that's the 418 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: right thing to do, but sometimes how I deal with it. 419 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: But I really want to take a moment here to 420 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: point out that the most decorated therapist isn't always the best, 421 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: and we need to be educated and the letters behind 422 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: someone's name don't always translate to them being better or 423 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: knowing better or having the answers. I'm a licensed therapist, 424 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: and a lot of the guests on here on the 425 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: show aren't therapists, and I learned so much from them, 426 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: and that's important for me to be able to enter 427 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: into those conversations not as somebody who's going to roll 428 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: my eyes at what somebody else is sharing, but is 429 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: almost going to my eyes are going to be opened 430 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: from what somebody else is sharing. And can I hold 431 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: the things that I believe in and the things that 432 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: I know about certain parts of the discussions we're having 433 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: and leave space to shift and change and to be 434 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: reorganized based on the new information that might be coming in. 435 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: I think it's really important to have proper training in 436 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: order to do what we're doing. And just because you 437 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: aren't this type of therapist doesn't mean that you don't 438 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,959 Speaker 1: provide any value. And I think that comes up a lot, 439 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: especially within new therapists. Right we need somatic therapists, and 440 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: we need solution focused therapists. We need CBT, and we 441 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: need I could go on forever. And if your personality 442 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: drives more with stuff like CBT, it doesn't mean that 443 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: you're a bad therapist for not wanting to do somatic 444 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 1: experiencing or brain spotting or something like that. The nuance 445 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: and the importance is knowing when a client might need 446 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: something different than what you provide and having the ability 447 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: to refer those people out. So there's more on that. 448 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: I think I could talk about that for a while, 449 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: but I really want everybody to take this conversation as 450 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: an entry way into the things that we are allowed 451 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: to struggle with as clinicians, and if you're not a therapist, 452 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: as a human being, it's a path to owning versus 453 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: avoiding professional insecurities that may lead us to asking the 454 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: questions we really need answers to. And if you have questions, thoughts, 455 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: anything related to this, please send them. I've already got 456 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: a couple emails with ideas for the series and I'm 457 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: excited to tackle those and we will the new ones 458 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: into this. Like I said, it's going to be an 459 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: ever evolving versus like a four part series. My hope 460 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: is that in this space, I too will show up 461 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: as someone who doesn't always have the answer and therefore 462 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: might take the risk of asking some of the questions 463 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: and in full transparency, I used to, I mean I 464 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: still do, but I used to really struggle with that 465 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: internally as the host of this show, Right, how can 466 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: I be a therapist that people will trust and also 467 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: learn from my guests, like I said earlier, not always 468 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 1: be the one offering the insight, Like how do I 469 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: show up as reputable when I'm not always the one 470 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: that's saying the wow factor thing or giving you the 471 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: information that helps you, Like, how do I still maintain 472 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: having relevancy? You know? And there's so much to unpack 473 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: even in that sentence, but I really did struggle with 474 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: how do I develop trust and maintain the trust with 475 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: the people who listen and maybe even some of my 476 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 1: clients who listen to this show if I'm not an 477 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: expert and I don't always know answers and I'm owning that. 478 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: I think that's part of this whole idea, that owning 479 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 1: that does actually add so much value to relationships. And 480 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: maybe this is too kind of like meta, like something 481 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: within something within something, but I do believe that I've 482 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: been experimenting this for years, with this for years, and 483 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: I do not know that I have come up with 484 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: a perfect way to balance that. And it doesn't mean 485 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: that I haven't learned some things along the way, and 486 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: I have some input that might add value in that space. So, 487 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: like I said, if you have anything, send it in. 488 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: I would love to hear it. If you're a therapist 489 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: and you want to talk about some of this stuff, 490 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: email me. Would love to have conversations about maybe even 491 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: having some of y'all on the show, sharing and talking 492 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 1: about your experience with this stuff as well. So this 493 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: one's for the therapist. This is the kickstarter to that. 494 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 1: This is not going to just be in order, like 495 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: I said, So just be on the lookout for these 496 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: episodes and do you have any thoughts, feedback, questions, anything, 497 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: you can email me Katherine at UNI Therapy podcast dot com. 498 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 1: Big announcement, I did change my Instagram handle to my 499 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: new last name. It is now at kat van Buren, 500 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: so I will have that in the show notes for 501 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: you if you see that in your feed. You don't 502 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 1: have to unfollow the stranger that somehow you started following. 503 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: It's just me. You can also follow at You Need 504 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: Therapy Podcasts and at three Quarts Therapy and find more 505 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: info on the show at Eunithapy podcast dot com. Until Wednesday, 506 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: when I come to you with couch Talks, I hope 507 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: you guys have the day you need to have.