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Speaker 1: We are back. My guest is Pat McCrory. Uh. Many

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Speaker 1: of you may remember him as the Republican former Republican

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Speaker 1: governor of North Carolina. He's been the mayor of Charlotte. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He's he's his own Uh, he's got his own TV

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Speaker 1: show on on PBS in North Carolina. He, of course

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Speaker 1: is somebody I made a frequent participant in the Meet

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Speaker 1: the Press round table back in the day. And because

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Speaker 1: what I love about Patt is he doesn't fit neatly

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Speaker 1: into your left right paradigms, which, of course is is

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Speaker 1: good for people like me and bad for for professional politicians.

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Speaker 1: Oh yactly, I think.

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Speaker 2: You've caught a lot of heat I hear by having

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Speaker 2: me on Meet the Press, because I.

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Speaker 1: Well, I got a heat left and right right, the

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Speaker 1: left hand because the right said he's not a real conservative?

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Speaker 1: What are you doing? Right like? And that's that's the problem, right,

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Speaker 1: You're not allowed you know. It's this has been and

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Speaker 1: this has been the most liberating experience since then, is

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Speaker 1: that there's this entire ecosystem of people in the political sphere,

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Speaker 1: some in media, some in who are practitioners who don't

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Speaker 1: want to feel as if they have to pick well,

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Speaker 1: I'm uncomfortable. I'm okay with these four things over here,

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Speaker 1: and I'm okay with these three things over here, but

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Speaker 1: don't force me into one side or the other. And

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Speaker 1: I do think one of the reasons why traditional I

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Speaker 1: think one of the reasons why traditional media feels like

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Speaker 1: it is that it's that it's at an inflection point.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to say it's at an end. I

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Speaker 1: think we're about to have a new type of media.

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Speaker 1: But I think that's what has frustrated so many consumers

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Speaker 1: of whatever you want to call it, mainstream media or

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Speaker 1: traditional media, was that everything is black and white or

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Speaker 1: excuse me, red and blue. Is that your experience? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And what we're not.

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Speaker 2: Taking is issue by issue and how we defined conservatism

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Speaker 2: or liberalism based upon every issue, whether it be immigration,

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Speaker 2: whether it be the economy, whether it be taxes, whether

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Speaker 2: it be public safety. You know, there are some issues

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Speaker 2: where I'm very conservative and there are other issues where

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Speaker 2: I'm more a moderate or some would call liberal. And

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Speaker 2: what often happens is they everyone, including the media, tries

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Speaker 2: to put you in a hole and to define you

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Speaker 2: and brand you.

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Speaker 1: That's easier to write, Yeah, it's I mean I had

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Speaker 1: to say it. But there's a there's an easy it

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Speaker 1: makes it easier, you know, exactly exact.

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Speaker 2: And that's how you win campaigns now is by branding someone.

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Speaker 2: And it's even best to give him a nickname, you know,

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Speaker 2: the rhino nickname on my side, or the radical extreme

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Speaker 2: right winger on the other side. And I've been called

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Speaker 2: both a rhino and a radical right winger. And it's

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Speaker 2: all dependent upon the issue. You know. As Mayor Charlotte,

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Speaker 2: I was a big supporter of a mass transit line

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Speaker 2: I supported supported, which has been very successful, and so

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Speaker 2: all the Republicans said, oh, he's a liberal. And then

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Speaker 2: you know, I got caught up in North Carolina on

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Speaker 2: the trans issue regarding locker rooms and restrooms and athletics.

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Speaker 2: And you know, nine years ago now and that.

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Speaker 1: Way, when it was just a fight over bathrooms, it

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Speaker 1: was a lot easier to deal with that debate. What'sn't

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Speaker 1: it now? It doesn't feel well.

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Speaker 2: I was dealing with it with women's prisons at the time.

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Speaker 2: But it's just noticed so that time I was a

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Speaker 2: radical right winger by the left, and both branded me

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Speaker 2: very successfully.

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Speaker 1: Give me the give us the how'd you why are

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Speaker 1: you why you're not I don't know what I think

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Speaker 1: you're Uh, I guess is the best way to describe

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Speaker 1: you be? What a center right conservative or do you

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Speaker 1: even intend?

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Speaker 2: I think that's right. I'm probably more of a Reagan conservative.

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Speaker 2: Some would even call me an Eisenhower conservative, where I'm

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Speaker 2: showing my name. I'm a conservative who believes in strong

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Speaker 2: investment and infrastructure like roads and transit and parks and schools.

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Speaker 2: And yet I'm a conservative and I'm not a woke

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Speaker 2: guy whatsoever. I hate the whole woke thing and sure

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Speaker 2: political correctness, and I'm conservative on social issues, but I'm

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Speaker 2: not mean spirited. I don't downgrade people who disagree with me,

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Speaker 2: which I think we do too.

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Speaker 1: Brought you to politics? What brought you to the Reagan

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Speaker 1: side of things? Do you remember?

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 1: You know? It's sort of like when you were in

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Speaker 1: high school or college? What was it? Do you remember?

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Speaker 2: I think what brought me to I was actually a

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Speaker 2: fan of Jimmy Carter because my dad was an engineer

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Speaker 2: and Jimmy Carter was an engineer, and so I like that.

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Speaker 2: Plus Jimmy Carter went to the Navy, was in the Navy.

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Speaker 2: My dad was in the Navy.

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Speaker 1: By the way, we never had a naval engineer, a

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Speaker 1: nuclear engineer. I mean, look, Carter's background was extraordinarily unique

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Speaker 1: nytime and an evangelical conservative like you don't see that.

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Speaker 1: A nuclear engineer and an evangelical, this believer and this

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Speaker 1: ultimate scientist right that was talk about hard to categorize.

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Speaker 2: I was a Democrat up until when Jimmy Carter got elected,

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Speaker 2: and when he is When Ted Kennedy went after Jimmy

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Speaker 2: Carter in the primary, I changed parties and went to

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Speaker 2: Reagan because I just thought I thought the Democrats had

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Speaker 2: lost their way in getting rid of what I considered

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Speaker 2: to be a very smart individual who had been a governor.

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Speaker 2: And when I saw Ted Kennedy go up on stage

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Speaker 2: and basically refuse to shake the hands of then the

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Speaker 2: president of the United States, I went, this party's gone

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Speaker 2: way far to the left, and they lost my way.

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Speaker 2: And then I saw Reagan, who was a great communicator,

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Speaker 2: and yet he was still a nice guy. And that's

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Speaker 2: what I've attempted to be. And now nowadays I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure there are any nice guys left in the politics.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's an interesting it's an interesting way to put it.

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Speaker 1: Because I've look you you get the elected officials that

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Speaker 1: the culture uh I think creates right, And you know,

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Speaker 1: there was a there used to be a you used

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Speaker 1: to be punished if you weren't if you didn't show

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Speaker 1: a little bit of empathy as a leader. And now

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Speaker 1: in some ways we are we're so angry with each

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Speaker 1: other that we don't want to show grace once we're

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Speaker 1: in power. I mean, look the the you know there

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Speaker 1: we could debate the specifics of the policies of deportation,

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Speaker 1: and then there is the implementation of your attempt to

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Speaker 1: to to rite to exercise your policy. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's what's lost here with the Trump administration is they

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Speaker 1: don't appear to even want empathy to enter the enter

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Speaker 1: the picture. Like you may. You could be right on

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Speaker 1: the law and the merits and wrong and how you

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Speaker 1: implement it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, empathy doesn't sell right now, correct sell? And car

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Speaker 2: wrecks have always sold on the local news six o'clive news.

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Speaker 2: That always started with the carrect.

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Speaker 1: It bleeds, it leads that way, and that was the.

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Speaker 2: Old extreme and yell you lead, if you call names,

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Speaker 2: you lead, and with all the cable on all sides,

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Speaker 2: both the left and and right. They love the conflict

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Speaker 2: and it brings the clicks. And social media has changed

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Speaker 2: the world regarding the clips and Chuck, I'm older than you,

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Speaker 2: but we grew up on where you show respect. You know,

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Speaker 2: when I used to meet the press my conservatives. How

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Speaker 2: can you be with Chuck Todd? Are you kidding me?

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Speaker 2: How can you be with that guy? Good?

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Speaker 1: No, I've gotten a note, Chuck.

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Speaker 2: We don't agree on things, but we can have a

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Speaker 2: conversation about things, and sometimes we have agreement, just like

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Speaker 2: me and Ben Shamus. When I got was co chairman

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Speaker 2: of no Labels with Ben Shavas and Joe Lieberman. Ben

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Speaker 2: Joe and I would get in a room and I'd go,

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Speaker 2: I can't believe I'm in a room with Ben Shavis,

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Speaker 2: that radical left winger, And he'd go, I can't believe

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Speaker 2: I'm in a room with that right wing extremist and

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Speaker 2: Joe Lieberman.

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Speaker 1: Of course, being that you're in the room means that

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Speaker 1: the label was wrong in the first place. Exactly one

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Speaker 1: wasn't an extremist on the last I mean, I take

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Speaker 1: you know, let Ben Javis comes from the same sort

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Speaker 1: of school. I would argue that Andy Young did right

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Speaker 1: when he is to say, this isn't about black and white,

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Speaker 1: it's about green. That used to be what Andy Young

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Speaker 1: used to say. He said, the color is green, and

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Speaker 1: he was referring to the color of current.

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Speaker 2: And I respected Andy Young when I was mayor. You know,

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Speaker 2: I was mayor for fourteen years and I got to

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Speaker 2: meet Andy would remember me, but I remember him, and

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Speaker 2: of course he and Jimmy Carter were real close. But

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Speaker 2: he always had this respect and dignity that Reagan I

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Speaker 2: thought always had. Reagan never lost respect for the office.

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Speaker 2: And you know, even now I go meet with my

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Speaker 2: former governors. I met with Governor Stein and Cooper and

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Speaker 2: Hunt and not too long ago in Raleigh, and I

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Speaker 2: was a part of a respectful group of people who

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Speaker 2: I thought hard. But we're all of us knew we're

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Speaker 2: not going to be disrespectful to the office at hand.

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Speaker 2: And that's what I'm seeing now and as mayor during

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Speaker 2: my fourteen years is mayor. You know, I never used

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Speaker 2: the gable now one time to the starter close the

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Speaker 2: meeting with the gavel, because I figured if you did

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Speaker 2: the gabble, you lost control of the meeting already. What

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Speaker 2: I did was anticipate people. I'd start to meet, Okay,

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Speaker 2: the meeting is started, and I'd expect them to respect

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Speaker 2: me starting the meeting. But if I used the gabble,

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Speaker 2: I thought it was a sign of weakness.

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Speaker 1: It was Charlotte A what kind of system?

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Speaker 2: It was?

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Speaker 1: This one of those where you had essentially you governed

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Speaker 1: with the council type of thing. It was a they

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Speaker 1: call that strong mayor week mayor.

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Speaker 2: That's a week mayor system. Now we had a city manager.

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Speaker 2: But I was actually a fairly strong mayor because I

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Speaker 2: had a veto. I was only mayor in North Carolina.

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Speaker 2: You had a vitto.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that doesn't I.

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Speaker 2: Ran all the meetings and we had eleven council members

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Speaker 2: and before that, I was a council member for six years.

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Speaker 1: So that's very similar to Mariel Bowser, Like she is

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Speaker 1: a veto, right, She's always said she goes you know La.

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Speaker 1: You know, she always thought the la mayor job was

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Speaker 1: the worst to have because it sounds like a great title,

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Speaker 1: but it's a weak super week mayor system. They don't

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Speaker 1: have they don't have the constitution, you know that they're

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Speaker 1: the local charter doesn't give them much power.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what mayors have to do is almost take it.

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Speaker 2: They fake their power because people assume we have more

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Speaker 2: power we did, so I use the bully pulpit as mayor,

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Speaker 2: as I did as governor, by giving the impression that

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Speaker 2: you have more power than you actually have. But sometimes

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Speaker 2: that would backfire when things didn't work out. Then people

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Speaker 2: would blame you for everything, assuming you had that power

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Speaker 2: to turn the ship just like that. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's that's an issue we have presidents. Presidents don't have

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Speaker 2: as much power as most people perceive. Now some especially

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Speaker 2: since Obama and Biden and the executive orders, they're taking

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Speaker 2: more power, but that's more due to the aptitude of

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Speaker 2: the Congress and them not making any decisions.

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Speaker 1: So I think, you know, I actually do blame. I

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Speaker 1: blame you know, the be all end all fights that

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Speaker 1: we're now having over the presidency over the last twenty

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Speaker 1: basically the century, right, the entire twenty first century, where

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Speaker 1: we've concentrated so much. It's because we've handed so much

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Speaker 1: power to the executive. The founders would come back and going,

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Speaker 1: what the hell are you guys doing? Yeah, what happened

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Speaker 1: to Congress? Like I think that would be the biggest

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Speaker 1: shock to their system would be the not just that

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Speaker 1: Congress was weak, but that they did it to themselves.

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Speaker 2: And now what's happening, and we see it even in

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Speaker 2: LA We're seeing the mayors and the governors and the

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Speaker 2: president not communicating with each other, which calls is total havoc.

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Speaker 2: And we saw this, by the way, in the pastor

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Speaker 2: and Hurricane Katrina. You know, we'd miscommunication doing the executive

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Speaker 2: branch and between the governors and the mayors. And when

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Speaker 2: you have that, you have total disaster. And I almost

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Speaker 2: had that during our riots in two sixteen, a month

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Speaker 2: before my reelection, which was very close, we had a

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Speaker 2: major riot in Charlotte.

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Speaker 1: And what was that over I'm like you mentioned that

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Speaker 1: I forgot about. We had live coverage NBC C No.

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Speaker 1: I mean.

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Speaker 2: It was come and gone. It was a police shooting.

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Speaker 2: Gotch had during shooting controversy time period. And I think

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Speaker 2: there were two controversial police shootings that week, one in

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Speaker 2: Charlotte and one in a smaller market. And it was

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Speaker 2: easier for the media to get to our market because

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Speaker 2: we have a good airport. And uh, by the way,

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Speaker 2: the shooting, it was a black police officer and a

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Speaker 2: black victim, and the black victims family said that he

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Speaker 2: was holding a Bible or a book, not a gun.

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Speaker 2: We knew it was a gun, but the media and

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Speaker 2: the family. So we had all the protesters come to

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Speaker 2: Charlotte and like what you're seeing in California, I see

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Speaker 2: in the exact same dynamics Chuck, I'm seeing. I'm seeing

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Speaker 2: Antitha type people who believe in total destruction of everything,

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Speaker 2: infiltrate legitimate protesters with their tools with there.

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Speaker 1: There's always some nihilists right, no matter where, there's an

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Speaker 1: artists in there. And I don't even know if they

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Speaker 1: have an ideology that's left or right.

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Speaker 2: No, they're a professional anarchists that came to Charlotte. My

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Speaker 2: SBI director after the second nights of riots called me

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Speaker 2: up and said, we need to get together. We're seeing

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Speaker 2: social media and other things showing more anarchists or come

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Speaker 2: to Charlotte. It doesn't take many. By the way, there's

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Speaker 2: not really that many protesters in LA just like Charlotte.

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Speaker 2: The impression is there's much more, but it doesn't take

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Speaker 2: many anarchists. The calls a lot of Bedlin because that's

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Speaker 2: what they want. They want the media coverage, they want

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Speaker 2: the police response and.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I don't. I'm you know, you don't have to

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Speaker 1: agree with this, but I think that there are folks

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Speaker 1: in the Trump world that would like to that want

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Speaker 1: the confrontation. They're not interested in de escalation. They don't

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Speaker 1: mind escalation because they want to flex. There.

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Speaker 2: It looks like there may be I would be surprised. However,

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Speaker 2: the anarchists don't care. They're not listening to what they dinna.

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Speaker 2: They're gonna do it regardless of whether they bring troops

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Speaker 2: or not. They know this is a major point immigration reform.

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Speaker 2: They can they can make a story out of it.

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Speaker 2: And the anarchists are the ones I recognize these guys.

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Speaker 2: They're usually young white males, some females, usually from rich families.

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Speaker 2: They're full time anarchists. They go from city to city.

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Speaker 2: They have their tools in a backpack. One of the

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Speaker 2: great tools the media needs you need to recognize, we

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Speaker 2: all need to recognize, is they love skateboards. That's a

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Speaker 2: that's a weapon, and yet they look like they're just

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Speaker 2: caring a state board. But they use that to break windows,

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Speaker 2: to attack the police, to protect them themselves. I've seen

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Speaker 2: it in every riot, and I saw it in Charlotte

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Speaker 2: during my riots. When I had his mayor and his governor,

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Speaker 2: they you know exactly what they're doing. And now with

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Speaker 2: social media, they know where the police are because they're

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Speaker 2: following the exact movement.

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Speaker 1: They're communicating, right if they have their own communication system

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Speaker 1: right there, there's no way.

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Speaker 2: I think some of this was true on January sixth,

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Speaker 2: whether it's the left or right. There are some professional

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Speaker 2: protesters who have the same equipment, the same ways to

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Speaker 2: break window. And then the professionals hit and then they

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Speaker 2: run and they hope the group dynamics will follow them.

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Speaker 1: Right now, they're the mob rule. They're basically they're going

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Speaker 1: to write. It's almost like they're planting the seed and

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Speaker 1: we go from there exactly. You know, it's such a

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Speaker 1: fine line, and you've you've you've had to think about

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Speaker 1: this decision.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: On one hand, you want to have safety, you bring

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Speaker 1: in the National Guard. There is there there is a

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Speaker 1: if you do it the wrong way, it can it

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Speaker 1: can make a tense situation worse right, and if you

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Speaker 1: do it the right way, you can sort of calm

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Speaker 1: things down. Is there one size or do you think

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Speaker 1: that each situation's a bit unique, or do you feel

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Speaker 1: like there is a sort of bloop a rule book

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Speaker 1: executive ought to follow that maybe isn't being followed.

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Speaker 2: It's a combination of both. First of all, the dynamics

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Speaker 2: are almost identical in every riot. Now each local leader

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Speaker 2: is a little different. You have partisan dynamics, you have

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Speaker 2: a strong mayor system, we bayor system, you have a governor,

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Speaker 2: you have elections, you know of all these other things

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Speaker 2: going on. In my case, I had a more left

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Speaker 2: wing mayor in a city where I was mayor for

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Speaker 2: fourteen years. She did not want anything to do with

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Speaker 2: the guard during the riots, and I had to call

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Speaker 2: her up and go, I'm bringing them whether you like

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Speaker 2: it or not. Now this was a private conversation. Then

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Speaker 2: I had a side conversation with a police chief and

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Speaker 2: I said, listen, I know you need help because my

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Speaker 2: SBI directory used to be the police chief there, so.

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Speaker 1: We knew the I just for the non North Carolinian

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Speaker 1: since stay Bureau of Investigation got of got it okay.

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Speaker 2: So he came and he showed me the social media.

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Speaker 2: So he says, Pat, this is going to get worse.

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Speaker 2: It's not going to get any better. The police will

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Speaker 2: not be able to protect their buildings and make arrest.

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Speaker 2: And this is another thing that needs to be clarified.

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Speaker 2: You bring in the Guard not to make a rest.

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Speaker 2: You bring in the Guard to protect the buildings like

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Speaker 2: the city hall, the jail, the bank buildings that we

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Speaker 2: had in Charlotte. You surround them and then the police

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Speaker 2: can arrest the anarchists that are causing the damage and

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Speaker 2: get them off the street. Once you get them off

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Speaker 2: the street, everything calms down, including the peaceful protesters. They go, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is what we want, but the anarchist don't want.

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Speaker 2: So what we do is send the police out to

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Speaker 2: rest the guy throwing the rock. We're shooting the tear gas,

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Speaker 2: or we're sadly shooting a gun, which happened in Charlotte.

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Speaker 2: So those dynamics are the same. What I did a

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Speaker 2: little differently, and I'm very proud of it. Politically it

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Speaker 2: was stupid because it didn't gain me any votes. But

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Speaker 2: I gave all my authority of the National Guard, which

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Speaker 2: I was the head of, and of my highway patrol

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Speaker 2: which I sent to Charlotte. And it takes time to

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Speaker 2: do that. It took a little over twenty four hours

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Speaker 2: to coordinate that. All I gave total authority to the

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Speaker 2: police chief, an African American police chief who I trusted

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Speaker 2: because I knew him as a former mayor. And I said, listen,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to give you my authority. You take control

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Speaker 2: of my National Guard when I say my I'm not

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Speaker 2: doing that. An ego standpoint, I understand my highway patrol.

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Speaker 2: You combined it with police because I've had to deal

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Speaker 2: with riots before.

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Speaker 1: You don't you only you have to have a single commander.

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Speaker 1: You can't have one command in control.

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Speaker 2: Now. From a political standpoint, I had election in three weeks.

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Speaker 2: It would have been good for me to take control,

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Speaker 2: but my city was burning and I cared for my city.

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Speaker 2: And he agreed to do that, and I said, I

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Speaker 2: only give you one rule. If the mayor starts interfering

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Speaker 2: with your authority, I'm jumping right back in because I

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Speaker 2: wanted to keep the politics out of it. That's why

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Speaker 2: politically it might have been foolish for me, especially when

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Speaker 2: you lose election by ten thousand votes out of four

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Speaker 2: point six million. Sure it might have been on every

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Speaker 2: little vote. Yeah, you look back, that's one of those things.

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Speaker 2: You're like, their fifty decisions that you could have. I

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Speaker 2: was worried about our city. So to me, that was

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Speaker 2: unique thing and what should should be happening in California

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Speaker 2: should have happened the president, the mayor, and the governor

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Speaker 2: like during the fire, which I don't think it was

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Speaker 2: occurring very well during the fires there either they should

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Speaker 2: have been on zoom calls together two three times a day.

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Speaker 1: Well, but Pat, this is this is where I you know,

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Speaker 1: I say that I've been saying this, where the incompetence

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Speaker 1: of this administration and just governing is is just if

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Speaker 1: I were a supporter of this administration, I keep telling

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Speaker 1: them you should be angry at them for their implementation

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Speaker 1: because they they are terrible at this coordination. And this

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Speaker 1: is how, you know, I hear all these stories about

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Speaker 1: how good the Reagan White House was to Democratic members

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Speaker 1: of Congress, Democratic mayors. They would go out of their

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Speaker 1: way to do this. George W. Bush did this. You know,

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Speaker 1: Obama wanted to have better relations with with This administration

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Speaker 1: doesn't do that. And it's almost they see they see

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Speaker 1: that as weakness. Right, there's this percent that you can

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Speaker 1: only work with Republicans. And look at this idea that

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Speaker 1: if you gave to a Democrat, we're going to yank

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Speaker 1: your nomination. Now, granted that probably had more to do

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Speaker 1: with Elon Musk than anything else with the NASA guy,

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Speaker 1: but that mindset I really gets in the way of governing,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's a huge problem in this way

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Speaker 1: we're living in.

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Speaker 2: Let me spread the ballame.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm not going to sit here and say

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Speaker 1: it's it's not a look what happens is it's reaction,

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Speaker 1: I call it. We're living in reactionary politics, which when

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Speaker 1: one side reacts, the other one react, and then this

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Speaker 1: is where we have this.

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Speaker 2: I saw this during the fire in California too. I

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Speaker 2: was shocked during the fire because I've had to deal

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Speaker 2: with hurricanes too, and major Ice Dorman and the mayor

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Speaker 2: and the governors have got to be working together. And

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Speaker 2: I noticed in all the press conferences during the fire,

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Speaker 2: you know, horrible, horrible fire where a good friend of

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Speaker 2: mine's house would burn down in La, the press conferences

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Speaker 2: weren't being held together by the sell If anything, Newsome

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Speaker 2: wanted nothing to do with it. He was he was

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Speaker 2: sort of trying to you know, there was this we're

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Speaker 2: going to whatever you think of Karen Bath, if you

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Speaker 2: know her, you know this is a decent person, right.

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Speaker 1: She may have been in over her head, she may

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Speaker 1: have made a mistake, but this is not a bad person, right, right,

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Speaker 1: And they all just left her on an island.

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Speaker 2: It was shocking to me. So I'm seeing some similar

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Speaker 2: dynamics now with this riot where you don't see the

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Speaker 2: mayor and the governor together still on this.

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Speaker 1: It's a little more coordination, but you're right, they're not

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Speaker 1: on camera together.

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Speaker 2: And I was on camera with my harshest critic as

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Speaker 2: Mayor Charlotte. I mean, she is way to the left.

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Speaker 2: She was at the.

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Speaker 1: Time what the public wants to see. You calm the

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Speaker 1: public down when you see supposed political opponents standing behind

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Speaker 1: the same podium telling you the same warning about it.

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Speaker 1: It's Christie did with the President. Obama's right.

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Speaker 2: He paid for it politically maybe, but it was the

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Speaker 2: right thing to do. And I'm not even seeing people

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Speaker 2: doing it within the same party.

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Speaker 1: So my criticism is definitely a Karen Bass like there's

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Speaker 1: like it's like they're treating her like she's got cooties,

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Speaker 1: all these Democrats because of the fire right, because she's

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Speaker 1: unpopular right now, right, And it's like, oh, unpopular, don't

435
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 1: want to stand next. You know, we all know you

436
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 1: find out who your real friends are when your approval rating.

437
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 2: But there's no excuse for not standing next. During disasters.

438
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 2: You've got to go beyond politics. And we saw a

439
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 2: load bit of this in New Orleans between Tromp, I

440
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,439
Speaker 2: mean between Bush and the then.

441
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 1: Mayor and the governor and the mayor same thing, and

442
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: the mayor and the governor weren't on the same page

443
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: then the governor and the president. Now no, I mean,

444
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: you're one hundred percent right. If you don't have at

445
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 1: least public unity, you you could have all the private

446
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: disagreement you want, but you've got to speak with one

447
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:36,640
Speaker 1: voicem out there. Let me stick to this topic because

448
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: I'm curious as somebody you dealt you just brought up.

449
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 1: I mean that my memory of your of your of

450
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: your last campaign for governor was of course the storms

451
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: and the floods because you I was moderating a debate

452
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: and it was fifty to fifty whether you were going

453
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: to be able to come because I was a con right,

454
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, of course I've always said you got to

455
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: come in wearing your FEMA jacket, right or the North

456
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: Carolina you know, which is always you know, you know,

457
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: you gotta gotta look good for the cameras there, right.

458
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: I don't think I did that. No, Well, I think

459
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: you changed when you shave. I think we get But

460
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: Trump wants to get rid of FEMA and he wants

461
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: to basically block grant disaster response, right, And I I

462
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: think this is as I think it's a very politically,

463
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: I think it's a bad idea. But I'm just curious functionality,

464
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: what would it take for North for you if you

465
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: were a governor right now you found out they want

466
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: to pull out this after this hurricane season, they're going

467
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: to disband FEMA, what would you have to do in

468
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:45,239
Speaker 1: North Carolina to replace what FEMA does? Or you know,

469
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: because FEMA is so necessary sort of on day three

470
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: usually right, like that's when you really need to help.

471
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: Well, there's a little bit of truth on all sides

472
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: regarding FEMA, FEMA or some great people. I had a

473
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: great hurricane Matthew. I had a great relationship with FEMA,

474
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 2: was on the phone with him constantly. Obama really won't

475
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: work with me much. Again, there was an election coming up,

476
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 2: and that might be another dynamic. But I had a

477
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 2: great relationship with Fena and I've put together a strong team.

478
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 2: In fact, my first two weeks as governor, I took

479
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: one day to train emergency response at an operations center

480
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 2: to put me as governor. My emergency operations guy said, Governor,

481
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 2: I say you need to go through training. I went,

482
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 2: I've been a mayor for fourteen years. He said, no,

483
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 2: we're putting you through training. And so what I see

484
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 2: a lot with governors, mayors and the presidents. By the way,

485
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 2: they've never been putting a room together with all the

486
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 2: people before the storms and go. This is how it works,

487
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 2: the process, the decision makers. I saw this in California.

488
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 2: It's like they've seen each other for the first time.

489
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 2: Who makes decisions. I saw this in New Orleans. I

490
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 2: saw this in North Carolina. With all due respect to

491
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 2: Governor Coop is now out of office. It was disaster

492
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 2: here the western hurricanes. In fact, an audit just came

493
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 2: out where the housing that they did set up, the

494
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 2: cost per trailer is in the millions. It just came

495
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: out two days ago. I don't have the data in

496
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 2: front of it. But the waste and abuse, well.

497
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 1: The problem well, but in fairness on the waste issue,

498
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: you know the there is this fine line you got

499
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: to walk, which is hurry up and get the money

500
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: out the door. There are there people that are gonna

501
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 1: who don't need the checks, who are standing in line

502
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: to get their check. Yes, that's going to happen. Like

503
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: I remember the PPP loans. I remember Marco Rupio arguing

504
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: against having some sort of because there were some people

505
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: that said, hey, shouldn't we have a vetting mechanism for

506
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: these loans And he says, well, by the time if

507
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: you add the bureaucracy, it delays getting the money out

508
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: the door. And so there is a balance there.

509
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 2: In fair you are dead right, that's what you're The

510
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 2: bureaucracy is supposed to stop the fraud, but it slows

511
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 2: up the speed of getting action right, and that's the dilemma.

512
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 2: And frankly, there are a lot of players who came

513
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 2: in Hurricane Matthew from the outside.

514
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: I went up to the with a money making venture

515
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: for a whole bunch of contractors.

516
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 2: It's a huge money making adventure. And these people are

517
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 2: coming out of the woods, from the left, from the right,

518
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: from people who aren't qualified.

519
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: No, it's it's not even left and right. It's it's

520
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: the guys that all know that there's other people's money

521
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: that's available to that insurance money. Well, there are some

522
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: people from the left and right too. We had some

523
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: frank Oh, I'm sure there is, but it's really just

524
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: atrit military groups.

525
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're in our small towns, which were quite scary.

526
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 2: But actually I've worked real good with Samaritan's Purse at

527
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 2: Franklin Graham. And this is Franklin Graham gets a lot

528
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 2: of heat on political things, but Samaritan's Purse has the

529
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 2: process down in an efficient way, whether it be a

530
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 2: rock or whether it be Oh.

531
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: There's some good ones like World Central. Chen's another one.

532
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: Lose Andreas really runs a sharp organization as well. I

533
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: mean that's a really good private Yeah, so there's a

534
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: middle ground there. You don't blow up the whole thing.

535
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 2: But I maybe needs what I call re engineering that

536
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 2: does the term in the private sector. The whole process

537
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 2: needs re engineering. And also it's a different needs state.

538
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 2: Some states are not prepared as they should be, and

539
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 2: in some areas the federal government.

540
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: Well, I think this is the risk that Trump's making,

541
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: which is Look, I'll be honest, I at North Carolina Georgia,

542
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: South Carolina, Florida. I have a lot of there's so frankly,

543
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: so many storms that they deal with that for the

544
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: most part, I think that they all can handle it.

545
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: I'm less I'm more skeptical of Arkansas, Oklahoma, these smaller

546
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: states with just smaller pots of money, right, smaller everything.

547
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: And these are his voters too. I mean, I just

548
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: think that this is not going to go as well

549
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: as he thinks. And tornado out, I agree if it's

550
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: the deepest all parts of of the of sort of

551
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: the border states there, Tennessee, Aucky, things like that.

552
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: There's also a bias against rural areas that are here.

553
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 2: The media. I don't mean to pick on the media,

554
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 2: but it killed me when our hurricane Matthews, all the

555
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 2: reporters are on the beach waiting for the hurricane. Well,

556
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: the hurricane had no impact on the beaches.

557
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: But your hurricane didn't hit. It wasn't the hurricane right now,

558
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: which is now the worst part of hurricanes. It's not

559
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: day one, it's when the water rises internally. That was

560
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: your problem. If I Rember.

561
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: In fact, I made a recommendation to the federal government

562
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 2: after Hurricane Matthew, which killed twenty eight people, all drownings.

563
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: And all like days later. This was not the storm itself,

564
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 1: it was the flooding after the match.

565
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 2: So the storm gets a four rating or whatever it is, right,

566
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: a huge rating. I forget the numbers now, and I going,

567
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: this is stupid. It's not the winds that's going to

568
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: kill you, it's the water. And yet always I called,

569
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 2: I did a big thing on the Weather channel. I said, guys,

570
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: you're misleading the public. The day after the storm leads

571
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: you still you bring down the category and I'm going, you're.

572
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: Killing every Oh it's safe, and it's like, oh no,

573
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: it's not.

574
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: No, don't five days downstream and it killed people. So

575
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: even the communications on how we communicate natural disasters is

576
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: a disaster, right, and it needs to be changed. I

577
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 2: made that recommendation ten years ago and it fell on

578
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 2: deaf ears, partly because I was at office then. But

579
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: I see the same mistake being made over and over again.

580
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 2: We even saw that the fires.

581
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, how we raise it certain thing things, you know,

582
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: there's certain things that just shouldn't be political appointed, right, FEMA,

583
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: the FED Justice, Like I think we all kind of know,

584
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: Like I I you know, a little bit of this

585
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: is fantasy in my head, but you know, I really

586
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: would love to see us like, look, we've learned it's

587
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: not healthy to politicize a justice department, and and the

588
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: and the system allows it. You know, we sit there

589
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: and say, oh, don't politicize justice. Well you have the

590
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: president gets to appoint everybody. So there's like you're the system,

591
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: it's you know what, how else are you going to

592
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: how do you avoid it? Literally? You got to then

593
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: let the other party appoint like the FED at least

594
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: we've created you know, I want to take how we

595
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: do the FED right and figure out how to apply

596
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: it to the law because you know, clearly we care

597
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: about not screwing up the economy, right, so we think

598
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: we better have we better have political balance as best

599
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: as we can get it on the federal on the

600
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: board of governors there. That should be the same goal

601
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: with like disaster relief. It should be the same goal

602
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: with our legal system and with riots. Sure, well that's

603
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: to me a disaster that makes some are man made,

604
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 1: some are natural. This would be a man made disaster.

605
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 2: We cannot politicize certain things that during disaster there is

606
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 2: no politics until afterwards, and that's when you re evaluated.

607
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 2: You know a lot of makes.

608
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: And by the way, that is faster jobs. That's what

609
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: a company would do. You find out you have a crisis,

610
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: you deal with the crisis. You don't fire. You don't

611
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: fire anybody in the middle of it because you probably

612
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: are going to make it worse. You do the quote

613
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: unquote after action report, right, and then you decide, Okay,

614
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: you know, was this human error and was this intentional

615
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: human error or was it an accident? Things like that.

616
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: So, in going back to your initial question, I don't

617
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 2: think you need to eliminate FEMA, but I do think

618
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 2: you need to re engineer FEMA and also doing an

619
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,479
Speaker 2: evaluation of each state. And the way you do that

620
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: is you get in the same room together, just like

621
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: my emergency operations director is the new governor. Back in

622
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 2: to twelve, he said, Governor, I don't care whether you're

623
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 2: a mayor or not, or you have a lot of experience.

624
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 2: I'm impressed with that. But you're going to meet all

625
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 2: your partners. And by the way, the major partner that's

626
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 2: not discussed during emergencies is the private sector, because to

627
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 2: recover from emergencies, you're more reliant on the private sector,

628
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: the verizons of the world, the private water departments, the utility, the.

629
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: Duke Energy and things like that. In your state.

630
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 2: That is the most important partner that has to be

631
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 2: in the room with you. When everyone thinks it's all government,

632
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 2: most of recovery is the private sector because if the

633
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: communications is not on, as we found out in New Orleans,

634
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: if you can't hear the people and what the danger

635
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 2: is and you're flying over I'm looking out the window,

636
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: you're going to have a failure, you.

637
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: Know, not to get it. I want to move to

638
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: sort of building a better building, better politics there. So

639
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: you you mess with. You flirted with no labels for

640
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: a while. You know you, I'm more than flirted. I

641
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: was pretty engaged. You were pretty engaged, and then you

642
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: you backed away, And I look, every organization has its

643
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: own internal squabbles, So I don't want to get into that.

644
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: What I want to get into is the bigger picture.

645
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 2: I'm still I'm kind of back helping Nancy and get So.

646
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 1: Here's my question to you, because I gave the same

647
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: question of Barbara Comstock, who I know you're friendly with

648
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: former Republican member of Congress in my neck of the

649
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 1: woods up here in northern Virginia, and I asked her,

650
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: I said, uh, is your goal to fix the Republican

651
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: Party or is your goal to find another way? You know,

652
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: new party? You got to this? You know where are you?

653
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: You're You're a conservative? Look at you're a homeless conservative.

654
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: Do you want to do you think it's better to

655
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: try to fix the the Republican Party away from the

656
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: Trump wing and and sort of fight inside the party

657
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: or do you think are you still convinced it is

658
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: better to try to reform the Trump wing of the

659
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: party from the outside, essentially by creating a market dynamic,

660
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: if you will, like, if you think about this as

661
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: a market right, there's I think we both believe there's

662
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: a market for something that isn't what the Democrats and

663
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: Republicans are selling. We know there's another market out here.

664
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: Is you devoting your energy more to that in your

665
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: head or into making the Republican Party Reagan again?

666
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: If you will, well, let me let me give you

667
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 2: another angle. I think first we have to own up

668
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 2: to the problem and admit the failure, and the failure

669
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: is the two party systems failed americ At this point

670
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 2: in time, it's failing americ.

671
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 1: I think the duopoly is duopoli itself.

672
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 2: Right. When George washing Way of George Washington warned us

673
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: of this, George Washington was not a fan of political parties,

674
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 2: and he warned us that you're going to have problems.

675
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: And the two parties and all this during the last

676
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: election became so arrogant with their power that they just

677
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 2: said to no labels. For example, they told no Labels.

678
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 2: Anyone involved in No Labels will be dead in Washington.

679
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 2: You'll never be employed again, You'll be wiped off the map.

680
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,839
Speaker 2: If you're a fundraiser for either Republican Democrats, you'll never

681
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 2: work in either party again. You'll never work for a

682
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 2: campaign again. It was it was what a monopoly does,

683
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 2: It's what the mob does. I think the two parties

684
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: are acting like a mob. And I'm talking about the

685
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 2: Godfather type of mob. It's those types of threats. If

686
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 2: you get off the reservation, you are dead. You're even

687
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 2: seeing that in the media some ways. You know, if

688
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: you're a right wing media or left wing media, if

689
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 2: you get off the reservation.

690
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: To your audience, your job. I mean, I saw this

691
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: woman who I don't know, and I don't really have

692
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: a lot of respect for OAAN as a legitimate news organization,

693
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: and I have even less respect. They had a young

694
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: Pentagon correspondent. She chose to like, Wow, the Pentagon's really

695
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: mistreating the press here. It's not fair. She was out.

696
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: They got rid of her, and it was proof they're not.

697
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: I mean, I kind of I assumed o N wasn't

698
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: a serious news organization, and then as soon as the

699
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: journalist complained about access from there, from that Pedagon, Nope,

700
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: you can't ever look like you're critiquing.

701
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: Uh So we have political correction on both the right

702
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 2: and the left.

703
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: It's funny you say that this has been an obsession

704
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: of mine, which is take what President Trump is doing

705
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: with the military right now, with you know, the renaming

706
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: of all the bases. We didn't. We just found people

707
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: who share the same last name that served in World

708
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: War One and World War Two. I mean, it's sort

709
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: of too cute by half, right, and how they did it.

710
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: But how is that any different? Right? How is that

711
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 1: any different than like political correct? It feels like political

712
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: correct this of the right.

713
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean away, I remember when I was running

714
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 2: for Senate, you know, I was thirty points up and

715
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 2: until Trump didn't endorse me in a point to the

716
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 2: third place guy won by almost thirty I said at

717
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 2: a Republican rally, asked me was the election stolen? And

718
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 2: I went no. And this is coming from someone who

719
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: had a much closer election, by the way, and.

720
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:25,760
Speaker 1: I was out.

721
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 2: I mean, I had close friends. How dare you say that,

722
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 2: very smart people there is a their dissension is not allowed.

723
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 2: It's George Orwell in both parties right now.

724
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: This feels pretty I do feel like you know the

725
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: Orwellian feeling. I mean, look, I don't know if we're

726
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: getting honest coverage of LA right now from anything I

727
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: see online.

728
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 2: No.

729
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: In fact, I'd want to welcome to George Orwell's warning.

730
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 2: There are too many reporters on the line looking for

731
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 2: the teargas shot or getting hit by a bullet or whatever.

732
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 2: The real reporters should be behind the scenes. On both

733
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 2: the police side and the protesters side, say all right,

734
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 2: on the protra where are these protesters coming from? Are

735
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 2: they even from LA? Are they at other protests regardless

736
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: of the subject. Where are they getting their money, where

737
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 2: they're getting their transportation? Where's the money coming from? And

738
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 2: on the other side, you've got to say who's how

739
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 2: are they? Communicator? Are the police and sheriffs and fire department.

740
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 2: By the way, fire is often forgotten in riots, but

741
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 2: they're a very crucial part of the communication because they

742
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 2: have to go put out the fire of the cars

743
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 2: and everything while under fire. Literally, to me, good reporting

744
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: would be check what's happening even fifty yards behind the scenes.

745
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 1: Well also, but the good reporting takes time and everybody

746
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: needs an update immediately. Yeah, right, And this is where you.

747
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 2: Putt there are a lot of by the way, this

748
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: is true with the s Charlotte Wright, you know, and

749
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 2: certainly it'd be thirty protesters and it'd be thirty camera

750
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 2: people and I'm who's leading who? After a while, if

751
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 2: a couple of those camera people maybe had gone five

752
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 2: blocks back and seeing how each of the police and

753
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 2: the uh, it'd be like going back behind the lines

754
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: of World War two? How coordinated is this? And those

755
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 2: questions are not being asked, whether it be LA or

756
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 2: And by the way, this is going to go to

757
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 2: other cities, you know, this is this It was a

758
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: little of Dallas. You're going to see someone New York

759
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: very similar.

760
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: We'll see. I mean, you know they're there there. It

761
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 1: feels like you know, look, I'm I'm I'm a bit

762
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: more cynical about this than that perhaps you are. I

763
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: think this is exactly what the White House wants. Well,

764
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: I would say it's maybe what they want. And this

765
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 1: is what really frustrates me as a citizen. That's not patriotism.

766
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 1: When you want your citizens to fight and be divisive

767
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 1: and you think it's good politics to be divisive, that's

768
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 1: pretty unpatriotic in my view.

769
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I think it's what the anarchists

770
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:09,439
Speaker 2: also want.

771
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: And okay, but the White House deposition any better?

772
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 2: I think. Sorry, I think Newsom and the governor and

773
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 2: the mayor are pretending nothing is really serious when it is.

774
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 2: And there's they're each in their little right.

775
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: We're never allowed to live in a world where both

776
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: things can be true. Yeah, how do you if you're

777
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: looking for a political party to be comfortable with again?

778
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: Do you think you need a new one? Or do

779
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: you think the Republicans are redeemable?

780
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 2: I don't have an answer for you yet. I'm still

781
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: red I've never changed my registration. I still consider myself

782
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 2: a reef.

783
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 1: I thought you guys were a no registration state in

784
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: North Carolina. I thought you could be you picked in

785
00:41:58,560 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: a primary.

786
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 2: I could have changed no Labels, Yeah, but I did not.

787
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 2: I was going to keep as a Republican, and I

788
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 2: told the head of No Labels I'm staying as a Republican.

789
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 2: But I would have voted for no Labels candidate had

790
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 2: that succeeded. So but I'm a Republican. But there's going

791
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 2: to be a certain point in time where I think

792
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: there are a lot of Democrats and a lot of

793
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 2: Republicans are saying they have both left us and not

794
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: only their policies, but in the way they actually governed.

795
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: It's character and ethics. I mean, I really think we

796
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: have such a character problem. You know, I do think

797
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: that good people don't feel like it's worth going into

798
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: elective office. So then you you know, we're only going

799
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: to get more Marjorie Taylor Greens, Well, it's not only I.

800
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 2: I'll bring up an issue. I hope you're not offended

801
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 2: by this, but politicians in Washington and even in the

802
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: state capitals are being bought out by three new industries.

803
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 2: The money, the super pig money is taken over and

804
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 2: I are really solid when I was a Senate.

805
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I don't I hate sounding like you

806
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: know I joke. I'm like, I feel like I'm sounding

807
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,439
Speaker 1: like Bernie Sanders and you're you're about to as well.

808
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: But the amount of money, like I sit here, do

809
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 1: you realize how lobbying works? Well, you know this right.

810
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: It used to be that a corporate lobbyist was paid

811
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: because there was a citizen lobbyist coming at them. Now

812
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: it's a corporate lobbyist with company X is in a

813
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: business dispute with corporate lobbyists with company why, and they

814
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: want to use government to put their competitor out of business.

815
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: It is not about what's in the best interest of

816
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 1: the of the people. It's what's in the best interests

817
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: of that business and how do they manipulate government regulation

818
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: to benefit them and hurt simultaneously hurt their competitor. At

819
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: no point is the actual taxpayer at all part of

820
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:58,280
Speaker 1: the conversation anymore.

821
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 2: And that's because you know, you be a special interest

822
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 2: group would give a candidate, including me, you know, five

823
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 2: thousand dollars, or they'd raise fifty thousand dollars with small

824
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 2: contributions or whatever. Now you're talking about a million and

825
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 2: two million and three million dollar chefs and more. And

826
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 2: there are three industries at the state and federal level

827
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 2: that have just popped up. The number one is crypto.

828
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 2: They're now the second largest giver to both the Republican

829
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 2: and Democratic Party, right behind the fossil fiel industry. Yeah,

830
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: ahead of a drug companies. And by the way, it's

831
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 2: not talked about because both sides are being bought.

832
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: I am a crypto skeptic, and nobody has been able

833
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: to explain to me the benefit to society with crypto.

834
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: All I know is everybody that's spending money on politics

835
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: in the crypto world is simply trying to make their

836
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: questionable investments worth something.

837
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 2: The number one question I'd ask they talk show if

838
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 2: I was the king to every candidate who accepts crypto

839
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 2: money is can you explain crypto to me? And they

840
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 2: will turn what they will?

841
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: I mean.

842
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: And by the way, they ought to ask President Trump too,

843
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 2: because he was a scheme a year and a half

844
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 2: ago and now his family it's.

845
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: A PSI scheme. It's a Pozzi scheme unless you're making money, apparently.

846
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 2: And they all to ask who's the new senator from

847
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 2: California who came from the House. What's his name, Shift,

848
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 2: Adam Ship. Yeah, Shift huge money from the from the

849
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 2: crypto industry to help win the primary.

850
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: But who beat me?

851
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: Nice guy? I have nothing personally.

852
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: He was on the You looked up every person on the.

853
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,839
Speaker 2: Banking Committee, the agg Committee, and the finance committees who

854
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 2: deal with crypto those.

855
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: Are the ones that are that they all may end

856
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: up dealing with.

857
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 2: All of them have accepted unlimited donations to their superpacks.

858
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: The Club for Growth me and from the crypto industry. Well,

859
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: regret this so far away, it's so far gone from

860
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 1: what it was supposed to be. You know what PAT

861
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 1: to me, the organization PAT to me, ran and the Yeah,

862
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: it's just now a money laundering operation. I don't know

863
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 1: what it is other than that it's just an illegal

864
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: money laundering operation.

865
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 2: And when I interviewed with them when I ran for

866
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 2: the Senate, which they had already endorsed my opponent, I

867
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 2: already knew it. But they basically asked me in an

868
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 2: interview they said, well, Governor, will you support any trade

869
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 2: tariffs because we will accept none. And these are the

870
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:35,919
Speaker 2: people who who are.

871
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: Now old enough to remember one club for Growth had principles, Yeah,

872
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: they have none.

873
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 2: The Freedom Caucus and that was a litmus test. You

874
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 2: will vote against extending the debt and you will vote

875
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 2: against every tariff. Yeah, and they owned us.

876
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: That's work it out. And yeah they do. They don't

877
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: know that, aren't they now? Pro tariff and anti debt

878
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: they do? What are they now? I don't even know.

879
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 2: I don't know, but the flip flopping hypocrisy. And then

880
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 2: you have Adam Shift, I mean, Adam Shift, take.

881
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,479
Speaker 1: You're not wrong on this crypto. I mean Elizabeth Warren

882
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: is probably the one that's She's the she's I feel

883
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 1: like she's the only one in the forest here. I

884
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: interviewed her on crypto at her and Cynthia Lummus and

885
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: Cynthia Lummas. I think owns more actual bitcoin than any

886
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 1: of the US senator. And she's a and by the way,

887
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: she strikes me as genuinely like she was early So

888
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: she strikes me as genuinely like she's, you know, interviewer.

889
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: She brings out a book what is crypto? She she

890
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 1: wants to edge you like I respect her position, even

891
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 1: if I don't, I'm still a skeptic at whether there's well,

892
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: I think the first press believe of the blockchain. I

893
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,720
Speaker 1: just don't believe this is currency. You know, I'm staring

894
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: at right here. Tell me the difference between a mean

895
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: coin and a baseball card. There's none.

896
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 2: I think it's dangerous to the long term stability the

897
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 2: O our monetary system. Of course it is. But again,

898
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 2: we're signed it. It's beyond my educational capability. That's why.

899
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 1: Okay, but Pat, haven't you learned this over the years.

900
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: If you can't explain it, it means it's bullshit.

901
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I listen, I have friends of mine who

902
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,800
Speaker 2: used to work for me on my campaign or major.

903
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: Making a bunch about it.

904
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 2: They about twenties and thirties. Now, of course, I say,

905
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 2: you don't make money until you cash it in. But

906
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 2: but at monetary system, and I think, actually no one

907
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,760
Speaker 2: in DC is talking about it because the people really

908
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 2: making the money, that the politicians aren't making money, but

909
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 2: they're super packs for making money. It's getting this politics.

910
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: Chappelle had the best. He goes, so explain to me

911
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: this bitpoint. So if I want to spend it, what

912
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 1: do I got to do? I got to trade it

913
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: in for cash and then it's like, you know, you're

914
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 1: just like you know, I mean, it's it's just come on, man,

915
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: you know uh.

916
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 2: And I'm afraid the media is not talking about it either,

917
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 2: because obviously because advertising. You don't know why.

918
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 1: Well, no, I don't think it's that this is one

919
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,280
Speaker 1: of those it's Charlie Brown's parents. When I start to explain,

920
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: you know, the blockchain, all of a sudden, viewers are

921
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,479
Speaker 1: going wah wah, wah whah right like, and they don't

922
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 1: hear it. And you know, there are some stories that

923
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: don't get the coverage they deserve because the substance is

924
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 1: kind of boring. It's account and stuff. This is the

925
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: problem with the debt. Let me give you something that

926
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: so it's funny you bring up campaign finance reform because

927
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: you're not you're somebody I don't hear the people from

928
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 1: the right side talking about that issue enough, just like

929
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: I don't hear people on the left talking about the

930
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,879
Speaker 1: debt enough. Well, I actually think the two go hand

931
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: in hand. Let me ask you this, you ever met

932
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: anybody that spent a gazillion dollars on elections from a

933
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: private entity that wasn't doing it because they want a

934
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: government to spend less money, or they were looking for

935
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 1: their own piece of the action from government. My point

936
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: is the more money that's spent, it's being spent to

937
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: take money away from the government, not to help the

938
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 1: government save money.

939
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 2: I would agree with that. Listen. When I first ran

940
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 2: for city council, you know my average of maje was

941
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 2: thirty five forty bucks. I raised fourteen thousand dollars. But

942
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 2: I will say this down in hindsight, what's what do

943
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 2: city councils do whe Their major decision is zoning, which

944
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:32,760
Speaker 2: gets secret.

945
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: So who are a lot of property and imagine how

946
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 1: easily those guys can get I always said this, the

947
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: smaller the legislator, legislature and city councils there are many

948
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: legislatures now, the more corruption you'll find because watch it.

949
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,360
Speaker 2: It's legal. Most of this is legal corruption. But the

950
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 2: fact the vetters when you're in local government you have

951
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 2: a different donor base than I've run for.

952
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 1: All development city councils, all developer.

953
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 2: Sent and my donors were all different. It was dependent

954
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 2: upon what sphere of influence I had in that job,

955
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 2: and that's where your donors came from. And you have

956
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 2: to own up to it. It's true the crypto industry

957
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 2: is giving to everyone, for example who's on certain committees

958
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 2: in DC. And by the way, they're in the states too,

959
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 2: because all of a sudden, the treasuries of every state

960
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 2: legislature is also somewhat going to put part of their

961
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 2: pension program in crypto. Just this is two years after

962
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,439
Speaker 2: Sam whatever his name is, he's in prison and it's

963
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 2: like it didn't happen. By the way, the other thing

964
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 2: is going on is the gambling industry and the marijuana industry,

965
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 2: huge state level.

966
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I know you, I know you've got a wrap.

967
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 1: So let me let me close with this when you're

968
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 1: tell me about Tom Tellis in North Carolina and what's

969
00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 1: your expectation, can't canny? Can he survive a one on

970
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: one primary or it's his only path to re election

971
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 1: either a crowded Republican primary, or could he pull the

972
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 1: Lisa Murkowski and essentially say, look, I'm going to be

973
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: a Republican in the Senate, but I'm going to run

974
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: outside the two party system in North Carolina. What's the

975
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: best avenue for him?

976
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 2: He's got to win the primary. And now the good

977
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 2: news is the primary includes independence in North Carolina. It's

978
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 2: an opt so that helps. But I think it all

979
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 2: comes down to what Trump decides to Trump's going to

980
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 2: have to make a decision, does he You know that

981
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 2: he's got a person of former Navy seal playing the

982
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 2: Trump Maga wing.

983
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: And Lauren Trump's flirt is suddenly sort of suddenly made

984
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 1: North Carolina Senate an interesting. At least she seemed to.

985
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 1: I thought she was a flurredy in, but I guess,

986
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: you know, do not come back.

987
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: I saw her a couple of weeks ago at the

988
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 2: Trump golf course briefly, but she's real close with Bud

989
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 2: beat me and Bud is endorsed tillis interesting, which is good.

990
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 2: I commend Ted Budd for that. I think it all

991
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 2: comes down to what Trump does, and then the general election.

992
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 2: Everyone's talking about Roy Cooper being you know, what's he

993
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 2: going to do? Frankly, I think Roy Cooper may be

994
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 2: the easiest. It's not a slam toward him. I think

995
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 2: he'd be as the best opponent because his track record

996
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 2: on storms and now the transgender issue is reversed on him.

997
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 2: Since he and I had the debate and he beat me.

998
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: It sounds like what you're saying is that the you know,

999
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: if you're the last thing you want to be is

1000
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: treated like an incumbent if you're a challenger. And what

1001
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,439
Speaker 1: you're thinking is that that Tillis will be able to

1002
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 1: make it the race more about Cooper than Tillis. It's

1003
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,240
Speaker 1: an interesting you may you may be right there that

1004
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:54,359
Speaker 1: that that it's two incumbents and you you where if

1005
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 1: Democrats found somebody who didn't run for office before, then

1006
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: suddenly it's all about Tillis.

1007
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 2: Yes, or someone the lieutenant governor, Jim Hunt's.

1008
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 1: Daughter, somebody who has a small who is a lower

1009
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:07,280
Speaker 1: lower attorney general.

1010
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 2: Which, yeah, it's hard to go after attorney general than anything.

1011
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 2: I Cooper was attorney general.

1012
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: I had nothing to attorney general's state attorney generals. Now

1013
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,359
Speaker 1: you know, you get to you get to announce big

1014
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 1: consumer rebates, you get to it. Now you know you're

1015
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: we got the bad guys right, Like, it's really hard

1016
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: not to have a good track record in Aiji.

1017
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 2: Going back to center, Tillis, who's a very good close

1018
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 2: friend of mine. I'm a great dealery spect. He was

1019
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 2: the Speaker of the House when I was governed. My

1020
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 2: first two years, I always say, if he would have

1021
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:37,399
Speaker 2: remained speaker, I probably would have won.

1022
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 1: Real life, I had some fascinating I remember, you know,

1023
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: he got a lot of grief for not giving up

1024
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: that speakership sooner when he was running for the US Senate.

1025
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 1: And I remember an answer he gave me. He said,

1026
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: if I gave it up, I'm going to be replaced

1027
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: by some lunatics. And he I'm probably, you know, Eddie said,

1028
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,760
Speaker 1: and they'll make sure I can't win election in this state.

1029
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 1: Like he was. You know, his argument was, I you

1030
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 1: know they because the Washington crowd said you got to leave.

1031
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: You're getting bogged down, and he's going you have no

1032
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 1: idea what will replace me? Was he right? You think? Yeah.

1033
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 2: One thing you don't know about Tommy either. He's a

1034
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 2: man of great principle regarding separation of powers. I had

1035
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 2: to actually assume him. He believes in strong legislative control,

1036
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 2: which I.

1037
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: Think your legs, I'll be honest in North Carolina, I

1038
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: think your legislature's out of control. Lay out of balance.

1039
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 1: I lay out of balance.

1040
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 2: I had assume my own legislature, and Stein's have to

1041
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 2: do the same thing. Cooper had to do the same thing,

1042
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 2: and yet DC, you've got this strong executive control Republicans

1043
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 2: are allowing, which they hated when Obama and Biden did it. Yep,

1044
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 2: but he's taken some heat for challenging Trump's executive control.

1045
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 2: He's not doing it because Trump. He's doing it because

1046
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 2: he's always felt that way about separation of powers. So

1047
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 2: he's extremely consistent. And people don't realize that that goes

1048
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 2: back to a state legislative days about legislature makes the laws,

1049
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 2: the executive branch enforces the laws. And I know this

1050
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:12,359
Speaker 2: is a struggle with Tom because he's fighting a political battle, yeah,

1051
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 2: against a very popular president with our base, and yet

1052
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 2: he's fighting this philosophical battle of the separation of powers.

1053
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 2: And I have a great deal of respect for him.

1054
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 2: But it's going to be I don't know what's going

1055
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 2: to happen, but.

1056
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: He said could be just you know, he he cornered

1057
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,760
Speaker 1: in Cassidy. You know, He's are three you know, they're

1058
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: all dealing with sort of similar problems, but the.

1059
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 2: Smartest people in the Senate too.

1060
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, what does that tell you, right that? I mean, look,

1061
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: you said it right, and if two of the I'd

1062
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 1: be shocked if two of the three make it back

1063
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: to the Senate.

1064
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, is the Cassidy is brilliant. I mean I got

1065
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 2: no imdor and no labels. He's the one guy that

1066
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 2: understands that it. Boy, is he so misaligned security?

1067
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 1: Is he so misaligned with Louisiana's Republican politicians?

1068
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 2: Well, both parties are Both parties are lying about social Security, Medicaid.

1069
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 1: Medican there. He is so misaligned in that state. Yeah,

1070
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's just you know.

1071
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 2: He's a he's a brilliant guy. I mean, I've had

1072
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 2: a lot of one on one conversations and some of it's.

1073
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 1: Just no, he'd be he'd have been better off being

1074
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: a senator from Pennsylvania.

1075
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 2: He's actually a he's the only conservative who's honest about

1076
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 2: so security. Yeah, but you neither parties being honest. This

1077
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 2: is where the we'll wrap it around. The two parties

1078
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 2: are failing because they're not being honest for the public. Well,

1079
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 2: they're only being honest for the polls and afraid of it.

1080
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: As you know all too well, if you tell the

1081
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: truth in politics, you're usually doing a concession speech. It's

1082
00:57:55,440 --> 00:58:00,040
Speaker 1: sad fact Papercrory, Uh, this is fantastic. Always good to

1083
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 1: to get your perspective, and I hope to have more

1084
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:03,479
Speaker 1: of it.

1085
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 2: So thank you, brother, so look forward to seeing you

1086
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 2: again in the future. Congratulations and all your stuff that

1087
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 2: they're taking.

1088
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: It's fine you too. You know you're sort of tried,

1089
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 1: and we're you know, who knows.

1090
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 2: But I played the game. What do I say? I

1091
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 2: played the game. I've been played by the game, and

1092
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 2: now my job is to expose the game.

1093
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it.

1094
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 2: We'll keep it up, all right, take care of friends.