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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff.

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Speaker 1: I never told your protection of I heart radio. So

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I'm so excited for today's many But

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and say if you have any

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Speaker 1: interest in playing The Last of Us two, the video game,

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Speaker 1: which is what I will be discussing. While Samantha asked

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Speaker 1: me questions, Um, that may be nodding to be fair

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Speaker 1: on this, Okay, I can't wait to tell you all

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Speaker 1: about it. Um yeah, skip this if you don't want

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Speaker 1: to be spoiled. I personally loved it. It's extremely divisive,

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Speaker 1: but I personally loved it. I beat it twice. I'm

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Speaker 1: about to start it again. Um should I probably not,

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Speaker 1: but that is what I will do. It is a

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Speaker 1: very difficult game, and I know you and probably ten

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Speaker 1: of my other friends were just receiving text from me

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Speaker 1: that we're like, oh God, this game. I'm crying again.

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Speaker 1: UM So, if you're not in a space for like

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Speaker 1: being very, very miserably sad and stressed, maybe skip it.

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Speaker 1: Maybe don't play it. So this is I'm going to

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Speaker 1: try to be, for the most part, as spoiler free

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Speaker 1: as possible, but sort of difficult and since Samantha has

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Speaker 1: you never played, uh the first one or the second one.

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Speaker 1: It's a brief plot summary. It's a zombie apocalypse UM

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Speaker 1: where pretty much by the time you start playing the

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Speaker 1: first one, you're at the point where society is almost

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Speaker 1: totally crumbled and there's a faction of this this group

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Speaker 1: called the Fireflies, and they're trying to rebuild and find

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Speaker 1: a vaccine UM. But for the most part, it's sort

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Speaker 1: of become a lawless, violent place. And there are zombies. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: very very scary zombies, including these things called clickers that

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Speaker 1: can hear you if you make any sound, and it's terrifying.

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Speaker 1: Oh is this one of the ones that you would,

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Speaker 1: uh know that was the Aliens game that you would

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Speaker 1: have the headphones on. You'd be like, yeah, oh yeah

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Speaker 1: that that's also very scary. UM. And the game is

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Speaker 1: an arc where you play this main character, Joel, who

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Speaker 1: is sort of this tough, hardened exterior, lost his daughter.

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Speaker 1: That's how the game starts. It's very sad, and you

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Speaker 1: get introduced to Ellie, who's like fourteen year old girl

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Speaker 1: and she is immune, so the game follows them as

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Speaker 1: their relationship uh reluctantly grows to care about her that

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Speaker 1: whole thing, and then in the end he chooses her

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Speaker 1: life over the possibility of a vaccine. And that's where

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Speaker 1: it is. And so this one starts off when she's

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Speaker 1: I think it's four or five years later, and the

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Speaker 1: basic plot is revenge and look what it does. It

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Speaker 1: just leaves bodies in the wake. Uh, it's it is

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Speaker 1: very very brutal. But I know you're listening and you're thinking,

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Speaker 1: what does this have to do with Steffan never told you? Well,

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Speaker 1: So there are a couple of things. One is Ellie.

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Speaker 1: The character was one of the few female video game

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Speaker 1: characters where I was like, oh, yes, she's well written

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Speaker 1: and I love her. Um, she is the main character

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Speaker 1: in this one, and the first one you get to

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Speaker 1: player for one section, but in this one she's the

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Speaker 1: main character. She's queer, and um, she is in a

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Speaker 1: relationship with another woman and it's a very sweet and

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Speaker 1: loving relationship. They travel together. It's not like, oh, in

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Speaker 1: the beginning you find out she's squeer and then that's

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Speaker 1: the end. It's like a pretty big part of the storyline.

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Speaker 1: So there's that, And uh, there is also a trans

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Speaker 1: character and this has been so the source of a

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Speaker 1: lot of debating conversation because you have the kind of

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Speaker 1: divisive fanboys who already were mad that like Ellie is

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Speaker 1: the main character, and then oh they just uh, they won't.

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Speaker 1: They are so ready to be so angry, but what

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Speaker 1: they see is like people coming in on their turf.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, and as you know, we've talked about

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Speaker 1: this a lot in recent weeks video gamers gamer is

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Speaker 1: there uh, at least one segment of them are very

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Speaker 1: very angry and like the voice actors in this game

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Speaker 1: have been getting death threats. Oh my gosh, I just

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Speaker 1: don't understand if you because even though I don't know

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Speaker 1: much about this game, that part I knew about the

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Speaker 1: disease and the young girl being the main character. That's

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Speaker 1: the one thing I knew about this. If you don't

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Speaker 1: like that, why even play or even by it? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think there's a part of there's almost like a

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Speaker 1: desire to be really angry. Why is this such a

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Speaker 1: good game and not have a male character? Only good

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Speaker 1: games can have milk, It should have male characters, bad

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Speaker 1: games can have the girl characters. Is that it is

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Speaker 1: something like that, and there is I've seen it the

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Speaker 1: kind of knee jerk comparison, because the first game is

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Speaker 1: widely regarded as one of the best games of all time,

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Speaker 1: UM one like over two d Awards, and so there

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Speaker 1: was already there no way is it going to be

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Speaker 1: as good, And then they come in and almost immediately

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Speaker 1: are like, so that character you be played forget about him,

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Speaker 1: You're playing Ellie. Also, she's queer. Here's this trans character,

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Speaker 1: and that's it. It's it's very different in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways, UM and the argument around the trans character,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of mixed feelings about it because

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Speaker 1: this character's name is Love and it's obviously, unfortunately one

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Speaker 1: of the few transgender characters in video games, and especially

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Speaker 1: when you're talking about popular video games and Love being

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Speaker 1: trans a trans person is it's complicated. It is it's

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Speaker 1: very important to the storyline, but also not the only thing,

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Speaker 1: if that makes sense. Like it was critical and a

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Speaker 1: lot of events that happened because he was a member

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Speaker 1: of a really religious sect who doesn't allow for trans people,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of the our argument are are there

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Speaker 1: was upset because the people in this religious sect um

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Speaker 1: use Love's dead name, which is like incredibly painful, and

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Speaker 1: it's meant to be painful, and it's seen as painful.

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Speaker 1: But um, there has been a lot of debate about

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Speaker 1: about this this character and representation which I believe is good. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so there's sort of like the angry mostly I'm

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Speaker 1: going to assume men who didn't like it at all

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Speaker 1: for including representation like that. And then there are people

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Speaker 1: in the queer community where a lot of this argument

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Speaker 1: is happening, who feel hurt by it or feel it's

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Speaker 1: tough because that game doesn't end well for anybody without

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Speaker 1: repealing it, you're in a zombie world. But that it

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Speaker 1: was just painful, um to see that play out. So

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Speaker 1: there's a lot going on when it comes to that

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Speaker 1: that conversation. And then I got to learn a new

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Speaker 1: word which I love, and it's called ludo dissonance. And

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Speaker 1: what is this, Well, I'm glad you asked. So ludo

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Speaker 1: dissonance is making you confront the fact that you like

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Speaker 1: the character that you play and you want to believe

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Speaker 1: you're a good character, but yet you're killing all of

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Speaker 1: these people. So Ellie, who you play for most of it?

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Speaker 1: I mean, at least I I love Ellie. Um. I

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Speaker 1: know some people don't know I do, and because you're

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Speaker 1: playing this character, there's a certain level of connecting with

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Speaker 1: them and their goals are your goals. But then it

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Speaker 1: does make you face look at what you have done,

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Speaker 1: look at all these people you killed, and look at

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Speaker 1: the consequences of that. Um And it's one of the

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Speaker 1: only games I've ever played where it made me feel

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Speaker 1: so it made me just confront how dark the things

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Speaker 1: that you're doing as that character are. UM. Oh, And

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Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about female revenge before, and this

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Speaker 1: game was very much about female revenge and how brutal

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Speaker 1: and bloody um it is. And I feel like a

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Speaker 1: lot of and we talked about this in our two

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Speaker 1: part Revenge episodes. I feel like a lot of revenge stories,

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Speaker 1: even if it's like, oh, look, this character has lost themselves,

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Speaker 1: there's almost a kind of fantasy, Yes, someone's getting what

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Speaker 1: they deserve element, you know what I mean, Like a vengeance. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like you're rooting for this character and they're killing all

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Speaker 1: these people, and you know you're kind of cheering for um.

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Speaker 1: And this was one of the few times where I mean,

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Speaker 1: by the end, I was I was speaking loud at

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Speaker 1: the game, like, please don't make me do oh no, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I liked that. I like that it really delved

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Speaker 1: into these dark aspects that is often that they are

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Speaker 1: often celebrated intermedia. Um, and this made me kind of

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Speaker 1: face that. Right, Well, I will say, when I watch,

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Speaker 1: uh my partner play Red Dead, huh, I'm very confused

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Speaker 1: because he's a bad guy. I'm like, why why are

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Speaker 1: you doing this? And so I often tell him I'm

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Speaker 1: rooting for the animal to kill him, like that's my

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Speaker 1: hobby because it feels so awful to watch, like why

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Speaker 1: are you doing all these awful things? Because he's you know,

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Speaker 1: as much as he's an anti hero, the I guess

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Speaker 1: the main player that plays but I'm like, what the hell, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I want you to die. Yeah, there's a whole like, well,

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Speaker 1: who's really the villain here? Um? Well, obviously that's a

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Speaker 1: little different from the you know, this your game The

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Speaker 1: Last of Us, because you do have a young girl

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Speaker 1: who you kind of grown up with, essentially, as where

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Speaker 1: his character is not so much as an attached thing

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Speaker 1: because I'm like, yeah, there's nothing about you that I

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Speaker 1: like right now the Red Dead guy, you know, but

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Speaker 1: not necessarily like the Last of Us. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what that would be because I do see the previews,

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Speaker 1: and the previews for the games look much like movie trailers.

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Speaker 1: To me, I'm like what. I get very confused because

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I can't play this. Where is my do

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Speaker 1: do do? Do Do? Do? Do? Do? Noises? That is a

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Speaker 1: good point you bring up, because that it almost makes

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Speaker 1: it much shatter because she did play her as a

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Speaker 1: young girl in the first one, and she was very

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Speaker 1: sweet and she loved puns like don't get me wrong,

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Speaker 1: she'd kill you. She was off, but she was a

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Speaker 1: kid and she had like joke books and comics, and um,

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Speaker 1: you trying to protect her as the main male character,

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Speaker 1: so you have almost this like protectiveness of that and

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Speaker 1: then to see her just to see what that world

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Speaker 1: has done to people, what other people have done to

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Speaker 1: other people, is it made it really tough, um and

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Speaker 1: very sad. I also want to talk about very briefly

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Speaker 1: because we've talked about it so much on the show.

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Speaker 1: It depicts ptsd UM and she as the character. As

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Speaker 1: you play her, she'll get flashes of things or she'll

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Speaker 1: hear things, and that was one of the first times

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Speaker 1: I've ever played anything like that. UM, and my I

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Speaker 1: was telling somebody about about this the other day. I

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Speaker 1: was very upset because I'd like, just beat it. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I feel like the messages, we're all terrible

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Speaker 1: and look at these terrible things were capable of and

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Speaker 1: that's just it. Um, oh so this game, Yeah, alright,

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Speaker 1: then I loved it. It did have I don't want

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Speaker 1: to like go too much into detail because I don't

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Speaker 1: want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't played it.

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Speaker 1: And this is actually probably the most divisive part of it,

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Speaker 1: and I loved it. I've never played anything like that,

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Speaker 1: but it has an interesting narrative technique where you connect

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Speaker 1: with the villain. Also, um, you have to play that

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Speaker 1: person and see their side of it, which made it

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Speaker 1: even more painful. But I I do. I really loved it.

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Speaker 1: I highly recommend it. I get that it's very divisive. Um,

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Speaker 1: some people hate it, just absolutely hate it. But that's

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Speaker 1: my my review. Um, thank you so much for letting

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Speaker 1: me talk about it. I will watch you guys play

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Speaker 1: games all the time. I'll just sit there and knit

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Speaker 1: while you guys watch are playing these games. So you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I am campaigning hard for the last of As to

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Speaker 1: be in your game lineup. So yeah, um oh, and

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Speaker 1: I did want to add ludo dissonance. The term that

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Speaker 1: I love is also called ludo narrative dissonance. I just

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Speaker 1: shortened it. It is so good. I've never heard of that,

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Speaker 1: and I was fascinated by it. Um So, if anyone

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Speaker 1: has played and wants to share their thoughts, or if

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Speaker 1: anyone has other gay recommendations, you know Samantha and I

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Speaker 1: are always down right I love getting them. You can

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Speaker 1: email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media

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Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Twitter, app, mom

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Speaker 1: Stuff podcast, or on Instagram at stuff I Never Told

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Speaker 1: you things as always to a superproducers Andrew Howard and J. J. Paseway.

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Speaker 1: Thanks guys, and thanks to you for listening Stuff I

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Speaker 1: Never told you. This prodiction of I Heart Radio. For

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Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio is that I heart

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Speaker 1: Radio app Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to your favorite shows,

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Speaker 1: come on w