1 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 1: So when you were in California, Zoe and you were 2 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: hearing all of these crazy stories of people fixing all 3 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: of their psychological issues. But also, you know, being crucified 4 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: didn't make you want to try this stuff. 5 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 2: Oh one hundred percent. It not only made me want 6 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 2: to try this stuff, but it actually really up the 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: stakes of the stuff I wanted to try. Specifically, the 8 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: NLP crews experiments with hypnosis. Back then, they were playing 9 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 2: around with it for the first time, sort of testing 10 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 2: the limits of what they could do. So you might 11 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 2: find them installing and uninstalling phobias in their friends and 12 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 2: making people hallucinate things that weren't there, or hypnotically deleting 13 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: things that were. But of all these applications of hypnosis, 14 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 2: one stood out to me specifically. This guy Terry told 15 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: me about how the co developers of NLP, Richard Bandler 16 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 2: and John Grinder, put him in a trance and he 17 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 2: was able to remember details of a car accident he'd 18 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 2: been in years earlier that he thought he'd blacked out completely. 19 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: So hypnosis can actually help you recover memories that you've lost. 20 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: Well, it's really controversial. 21 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 3: And let me just press okay, effect all right, but. 22 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 2: I personally have a reason for wanting to believe it works. 23 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: I was trying to think of meaningful applications of NLP 24 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 2: and hypnosis to my life. And I certainly have some 25 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 2: embarrassing habits and little flaws I'd love to vanish. But 26 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: I was thinking of something a little more substantial than 27 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 2: saving my cuticles and nails from my picking and biting. 28 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 2: Or I'm on a call with an English hypnotist who 29 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 2: has studied NLP. Her name is Cas Riley. And really, 30 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 2: what sort of haunted me throughout my life is this 31 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: void left by who died when. 32 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 4: I was young. 33 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 2: My father died of cancer when I was six, And 34 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: although I love the person I've come to know through 35 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: stories from my mom and their friends, I don't have 36 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: that many of my own memories of him. Can I 37 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 2: get some back through hypnosis? Just like he must have 38 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 2: held me as a child, he must have lifted me up, 39 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:23,959 Speaker 2: He must have touched me, you know, just like colors, impressions, moments, 40 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 2: the light things. 41 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 3: Like the deepest sense with him. 42 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: That's the goal. But I'm wary of even trying this 43 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: because hypnotic memory recovery is not at all in exact 44 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 2: or even remotely proven science. 45 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 3: That's a very hotly debated subject. I'm quite rightly so, because. 46 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: It's apparently alarmingly easy to install memories in someone's mind 47 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 2: using hypnosis. People have come out of trances with false 48 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 2: memories of alien abduction or even childhood abuse. But the 49 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 2: way it Kas openly acknowledged the risks helped put me 50 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: at ease. 51 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 3: Is my view from the work that I've done, is 52 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 3: that we can certainly help people get a deeper sense 53 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 3: of somebody that they lost, especially somebody like a parent 54 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 3: when they were younger, but we will never know if 55 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 3: those memories are real or not. 56 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 2: With the disclaimer that what we get might not be 57 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 2: capital are real, Kas still believes it's worth doing. Kas 58 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 2: says she avoids installing fake memories by steering clear of 59 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 2: leading questions. 60 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,839 Speaker 3: It's really opening your mind and seeing what's in there 61 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 3: with regards to dads and bring it into a more 62 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 3: conscious state. 63 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: If you like, you're about to hear Kaz hypnotize me. 64 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: If you're driving, skip ahead to our theme music. 65 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 3: Now, I wonder if you knew, Zoe that ever since 66 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 3: today that you were born, you've learned and experienced so 67 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 3: many wonderful and amazing things. And there's a very special, wonderful, 68 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 3: amazing and unique part of you, You're inner mind, your 69 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 3: subconscious mind. I can have access to all those wonderful 70 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 3: things that lay within. Now in a moment, you can 71 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 3: hear me count down from ten all the way down 72 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 3: to zero. And as I count down from ten all 73 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 3: the way. 74 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 5: Down, take a deep breath in. 75 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 6: And breathe out. 76 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 4: Where your conscious mind is going to go totally away 77 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 4: so that I can speak primate you're unconscious mine. 78 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 5: You can notice that you feel rested, more alerted. 79 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 2: Function from Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts. This is Mine Games, 80 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: Episode three. 81 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: I'm Zoe Lascas and I'm Alice Hines. 82 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 4: You don't know how you did it? 83 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: Do you? 84 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 7: You're going to a little time to Starshi, stay and. 85 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 4: You're out of it. 86 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: Zoe re listening to that clip? What happened to you? 87 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: Dude? I cannot even listen to that clip without slipping 88 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: into a trance. It's like She's the whistle, I am 89 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: the dog kaboom. 90 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: That's so funny because it really does nothing for me. 91 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:45,799 Speaker 2: What are you serious? 92 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 4: Yeah? 93 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm just listening to a podcast our 94 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: sexy hypno for us. I mean she's addressing you, she 95 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: says your name. That might be part of it. That 96 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. Actually, it is very personal 97 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: for me. 98 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: When I'm slipping into trance, feels like my body is 99 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 2: getting heavier at the same time that my mind is 100 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 2: getting lighter, or like parts of my brain are even fluttering. 101 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 2: And it's kind of addictive because in trance you can 102 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 2: feel or be whatever you want, so. 103 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 8: Your body can figure really big or really small. I 104 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 8: can feel I'm in my body. 105 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: It's funny that you describe it that way. That's exactly 106 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: how this hypnotherapist, Stephen Gilligan explains trance. 107 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 3: I can feel that I'm up on the ceiling. 108 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,239 Speaker 2: I can feel that I have five hands. 109 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 9: I can feel like I'm five years old. I can 110 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,119 Speaker 9: feel like I'm ten thousand years old. 111 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: Last episode, Richard Bandler was an undergraduate running experimental site 112 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,799 Speaker 1: groups with linguist professor John Grinder. It was the early 113 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: seventies and what they were doing was weird, but it 114 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: was also part of a larger alternative therapy moment. 115 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 2: Everything changed when Vandler and Grinder learned about hypnosis. 116 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 4: NLP grew out of my fascination with its phenomenon more 117 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 4: than anything else, because when I saw people doing this stuff, 118 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 4: I started going, it's the same brain doing it. I mean, 119 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 4: if your brain will do it, it's just a question 120 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 4: of who's driving the bus. 121 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: That's Bandler talking about his interest in hypnosis during one 122 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: of his seminars in the eighties. If you've ever seen 123 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: tranced out people on a stage, making out with strangers 124 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: or forgetting their own names, you know hypnosis can unlock 125 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: weird mental feats. Bandler thought we could harness that. 126 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 4: Now. 127 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 7: The thing is is that once you get them into 128 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:38,239 Speaker 7: the altered state, you will remember to take the person back, 129 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 7: take the new learnings. They just built the new attitude, 130 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 7: and smooth through their personal history by having them go 131 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 7: through and feel how much easier it would have been 132 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 7: to have this attitude, how much more enjoyable, and see 133 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 7: what freedom it would have given them, and then propel 134 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 7: themselves down in the future with twice to four times 135 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 7: much good feeling and sense of wanton anticipation about how 136 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 7: this is going to permeate their life. 137 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: This is Bandler in a seminar creating therapeutic change. What 138 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: he's saying is that you can use hypnosis to achieve 139 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: your goals, whatever they may be. For Bandler and Grinder, 140 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: that included making a lot of money as the seventies 141 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: turned into the eighties, and of course some people wanted 142 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: to use hypnosis to control. 143 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 2: Others, although to what extent that's actually possible is a 144 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 2: big source of debate. More on that later. 145 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: Hypnosis is tricky to study scientifically. Even hypnotherapists don't have 146 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: a single official definition right that's. 147 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 2: Right, And there's no one unifying physical cue all people 148 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 2: demonstrate when they're in trance, no one part of the 149 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 2: brain that lights up. I think hypnosis is a little 150 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 2: like lucid dreaming. You're not a zombie, You're not not there. 151 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 2: You're in a state of possibility. 152 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 4: The thing about trance is that most of your beliefs 153 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 4: get suspended in the altered state, because it's not that 154 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 4: you can't do it, it's that you believe you can't 155 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 4: do it. 156 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy four, Bendler and Grinder went down to Phoenix, Arizona, 157 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 2: to meet a big deal psychiatrist named Milton Erickson, who 158 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: probably did more than anyone else to put hypnotherapy on 159 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 2: the mainstream medical map. 160 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: I looked into Milton Erickson further. This guy's a hypnosis icon. 161 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: As a teenager, he had polio and was paralyzed with 162 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: limited speech. It made him an astute observer of other 163 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 1: people's micro expressions and tones of voice. Eventually he was 164 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: able to use self hypnosis to recover his speech and mobility. Later, 165 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,479 Speaker 1: as a doctor, he became a talented and innovative hypnotist. 166 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: His big idea was to change the rhetoric of trance, 167 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: so commands were disguised as suggestions. 168 00:09:55,080 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 2: Perhaps you noticed the breath naturally slowing, deepening. 169 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: Notice how she said the word Perhaps that's on purpose. 170 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: By the way, this tape is from one of my 171 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: favorite meditation apps where I hear Ericson's technique all the time. 172 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 2: Do they call it hypnosis. 173 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: No, they don't, So my theory is that hypnosis just 174 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,599 Speaker 1: got rebranded for our generation as mindfulness. Another one of 175 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: Ericson's favorite techniques was the so called handshake interrupt. He'd 176 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: come in and shake your hand, but instead of actually 177 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: grabbing it, he'd touch your wrist and guide your hand 178 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: up towards your face. 179 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 2: That would definitely confuse me. 180 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the point. It was basically to open 181 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: a window into someone's subconscious through confusion. I should also 182 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: mention that Ericson pretty much only ever wore purple, which 183 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: maybe contributed to the general sense of weirdness people got 184 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: when they met him. They called him the wizard in 185 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: the desert, and he was kind of magical. He developed 186 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: his own style of hypnosis. It's called permissive hypnosis. Ericson 187 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: told his patients deliberately confusing stories seemingly unrelated to their 188 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: problems while they were in trance. It's purposely hard to 189 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: follow in order to disorient your rational, analytic brain, forcing 190 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: your unconscious mind to participate and supply the details. 191 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 3: So that's what. 192 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 2: Bandler and Grinder picked up from Milton Erickson when they 193 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: met him in Arizona in nineteen seventy four. Bandler and 194 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: Grinder came back from that workshop with a new bag 195 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 2: of tricks. At first, they used trance to turbocharge their 196 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 2: therapy sessions, hypnotizing people to get them past particularly stubborn 197 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 2: mental blocks. Then they began using it more as a 198 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 2: self improvement hack. Traveling abroad, try hypnosis for speedy language learning. 199 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 2: Here's Daniel Spitzer again, Bandler's former drum student. We met 200 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 2: him last episode. 201 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 10: There was a period of time when Richard and John 202 00:11:58,400 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 10: would use double induction. 203 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 2: That's when two people speak into each of your ears 204 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 2: to put you in trance, and. 205 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 10: They would guarantee fluency in one of several languages within 206 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 10: seventy two hours and charge a huge sub So does 207 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 10: that work? 208 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 2: Can you learn a language in seventy two hours? 209 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 5: If you've got two guys whispering in each year, you. 210 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 10: Can learn some aspects of communication. 211 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: Okay, Zoe, should we try a double induction? Yes, let's 212 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: do it, but not for languages. Let's install something else 213 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: in our listeners. 214 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 2: Don't worry, it's not going to be anything bad. But 215 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 2: if you're driving right now or operating heavy machinery, please 216 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 2: pause this podcast or skip ahead thirty seconds. We're going 217 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 2: to do a double induction. 218 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:48,479 Speaker 1: You're walking through a desert. There's red Ond. 219 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 2: Horizon audio program. 220 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:55,079 Speaker 1: You haven't seen a telescope which subscribe for hundreds in 221 00:12:55,120 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: a year. So you're wearing life days and can be feeled. 222 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 11: Agree say sometimes in your days days that can be 223 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 11: your mouth is par moving backwards your ears into podcasts. 224 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: The sun makes on your aura all right, so we'll 225 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: tell you what we were going for at the end 226 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: of this episode, but we're going to give it a 227 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: beat to marinate in your subconscious mind. 228 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 2: Bendler and Grinder grew so confident in their hypnotic abilities 229 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 2: they even began using hypnosis to attempt to cure physical 230 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 2: conditions like skin reactions to poison oak. 231 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 12: One of the ladies came into the seminar, one of 232 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 12: these young college students came in one of the worst 233 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 12: cases of poison oak I have ever seen, and so I, 234 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 12: you know, I had done this with her before. So 235 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 12: I turned around and went back. She went out, you know, 236 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 12: and I had her meet me in the middle of 237 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 12: nowhere and put magic dust on her to have it 238 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 12: go away. And damned that didn't. 239 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: Another bold, highly doubtful Bandler story. 240 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 2: I know, I was obviously skeptical of these sorts of claims, 241 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 2: but I only kept hearing them. Terry McClendon, another early 242 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 2: NLP guy I interviewed, swear as he was far sighted 243 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 2: until Richard Bandler and John Grinder put him in a trance. 244 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: Did John and Richard really cure your eyesight? How did 245 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 2: that work? 246 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 8: It was hypnosis? 247 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: Terry noticed his eyes when blurry when he got stressed, 248 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 2: so Bandler and Grinder performed an age regression. They hypnotically 249 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 2: led Terry back to his childhood, to a time before 250 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 2: he needed glasses. While he was in the trance, Terry 251 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 2: struck upon a memory of watching The Lone Ranger on TV. 252 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 8: So I'm watching television and my mother says, Terry, you 253 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 8: should go outside because if you watch hi much television, 254 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 8: you're going to have to wear eyeglasses. 255 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 2: Bandler and Grinder identified this as the source of Terry's 256 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 2: vision problems, so they hypnotically asked the Lone Ranger to 257 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 2: give him a hand. 258 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 8: And I was out on the prairie and I was 259 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 8: all alone, this little boy eight years old, and a 260 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 8: long Ranger comes up. Long Ranger, will you help me 261 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 8: with my eyesight? Is sure? 262 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 2: A partner, I'll help you in the trance, the Lone 263 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 2: Ranger reached into his pocket, gave Terry a silver bullet 264 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 2: and rode off. So you're sort of identifying your vision 265 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 2: problems as a psychosomatic be maybe a kind of hypnotic 266 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 2: suggestion from your mother. 267 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 8: It's a child exactly. So it's a two part thing. 268 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 8: It's people's I can't believe it's not magic. It's using 269 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 8: hypnosis to allow yourself to have bitter vision by removing 270 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 8: these old suggestions. 271 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 2: Can I ask you a good question? I just so 272 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 2: if your mom said not to watch too much TV, 273 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: it'll strain your eyes. I mean, lots of mothers say 274 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 2: that to their kids. You do you seriously think that 275 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: mothers are giving their children's vision problems? 276 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 8: No, no, no, but I'm suggesting that parents give their 277 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 8: kids suggestions all the time. I mean, you got to 278 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 8: eat your greens or you'll never be able to do this. 279 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 8: You're stupid. You will become a success. 280 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 2: Right, But being stupid is you know that seems more 281 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 2: about self perception than being able to see clearly or not. 282 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 8: You keep sitting like that, You're not going to be 283 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 8: able to use that leg when you get older. 284 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 2: I mean that still seems really different than deteriorating eyesight. 285 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 8: If you do, if you get rid of suggestions, it 286 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 8: allows you to do the exercises that strengthen your eyes. 287 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 2: Okay, so anyone could correct their vision if they do 288 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 2: the exercises. 289 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 8: No, they're not going to make my eyesight in my 290 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 8: right eye any be there. 291 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 2: I mean, you're wearing glasses. 292 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 8: I'm wearing glasses that started with as you grow older. 293 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: So this dude was literally wearing glasses when you had 294 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: this exchange. 295 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 2: Literally wearing glasses. And when I pointed that out to him, 296 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 2: he said they were for a different issue, that his 297 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: eyesight had deteriorated with age versus his mother programming him 298 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 2: to be far sighted as a kid. 299 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 1: Huh. 300 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 2: Terry's explanation was that his eyes only got blurry when 301 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 2: he was stressed. So he's saying that the underlying issue 302 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 2: is more of a mental thing than some physical reality, 303 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 2: like the shape of his cornea. 304 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: I guess it's actually not that absurd to say that 305 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: certain physical issues are rooted in our beliefs. It reminds 306 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 1: me of hypnosis for pain relief, which is actually one 307 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: of the best documented use cases for hypnosis clinically. 308 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 2: Because pain is both physical and mental. 309 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: Right, there's lots of studies on this. I was reading 310 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: a meta analysis that showed a forty two percent reduction 311 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: in pain for people who are especially suggestible to hypnosis. 312 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: It didn't work as dramatically on everybody, but hypnosis reduced 313 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: pain in most people, everything from sickle cell anemia to fibromyalgia, 314 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: to chronic pain, and even childbirth. 315 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 2: Speaking of which, how did it go with the hypno 316 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 2: birthing tape you got from Nancy? 317 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: Yes, my trance coach Nancy Salzman, So you remember Nancy 318 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: Salzman made me a hypno birthing tape. I listened to 319 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: it pretty regularly in my third tray muster, and Nancy 320 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: also gave me another weird tip, pair the tape with 321 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: an anchor, so I would basically listen to the tape 322 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: and then squeeze my wrist. The idea is you can 323 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: train yourself to conjure a calm emotional state, or really 324 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: any emotional state on command. 325 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 2: H Okay, how'd that go? 326 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: Honestly, it worked pretty well, but I didn't end up 327 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: using it in the hospital. 328 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 2: Right because you had a cesarean. 329 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I had a healthy dose of anesthesia and a 330 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: scheduled cesarean, so zero pain to relieve through hypnosis or 331 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: any other mind hack. But the hypnosis exercises have actually 332 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: proved super useful since I've been using anchors on my daughter. 333 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 2: Wait, how does that even work? She's a few months old. 334 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: So children are actually some of the most hypnotizable people. 335 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: Zoe it's an ability that we lose touch with during adolescence. 336 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 2: M interesting. 337 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: So what I do is I use a gentle hypnosis 338 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: to get her to sleep. I have a series of anchors. 339 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: I don't squeeze her wrist, but I sing a lullaby 340 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: and stand in a specific position. And I noticed after 341 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: a few weeks of doing this, her eyes started to 342 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: get small with just the first few bars of the lullaby. 343 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: Nancy gave me another weird tip. Basically, she said, to 344 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: calm my baby down, I could hold her and match 345 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: my breathing to hers. Then slow my breathing down and 346 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: my baby would follow unconsciously. 347 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 2: This is something hypnotists do to build rapport with their subjects. 348 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, But to be honest, I haven't been able 349 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: to pull it off yet. 350 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 2: Interesting that you can do nonverbal or even pre verbal hypnosis. 351 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 2: The only baby hypnosis I've heard of is that children's 352 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 2: book The Rabbit Who Wants to Fall Asleep by a 353 00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 2: Swedish NLP guy. 354 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, this was a huge book. It was a huge success. 355 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: I think desperate parents have bought it in like forty 356 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: three countries. 357 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 2: How many copies did you get at your baby shower? 358 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: I have a copy. 359 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 7: There we go. 360 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 2: So it's like a bedtime story full of hypnotic commands, 361 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 2: bolded phrases like sleep no that parents are supposed to 362 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 2: emphasize as they read it. 363 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. So did Kaz do anything similar with you? 364 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 2: I think putting me to sleep would have been small 365 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 2: potatoes for Kaz. What she ended up doing was much crazier. 366 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 3: Okay, so what I'm going to do. I know, as 367 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 3: I've already said to you. Anyway you want to move, 368 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 3: just move. You're not by the breaks. It's not a 369 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 3: magic spell. 370 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 2: This is my first hypno succession with Kaz. 371 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 3: You know, we go in and out of hypnosis all 372 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 3: the time. Anyway, I know you did it last night 373 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 3: when you went to sleep, for example, so it's a 374 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 3: nice easy thing to do. 375 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 2: She asked me to hold up my hands and imagine 376 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 2: a magnetic field between them. 377 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 3: You can begin to feel the force of that magnetic 378 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 3: field pulling those hands closer and closer together. 379 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 2: My fingers touched, my eyes closed, and Kaz led me 380 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 2: deeper into the trance. 381 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 3: Somewhere deep inside, always there when you're wrong, to return 382 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 3: to it. 383 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 2: We began this episode with an experiment to see if 384 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 2: I can hypnotically recover memories of my father. We had 385 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 2: a few false starts. I got distracted several times by 386 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 2: random thoughts and when music started blasting outside on the street. 387 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 2: But every time I emerged from the trance, Kaz counted 388 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 2: back down. 389 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 3: Nine, drifting and letting go down and down. 390 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 5: What's that say? 391 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 2: I was not optimistic at this point, but we tried again, 392 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 2: and something she said clicked. She was asking me about 393 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 2: Gork the Octopus, a character my dad invented and used 394 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 2: to tell me stories about. 395 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 11: And my news. 396 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 13: Just think a ben stories of Gork the Octopus. Just 397 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 13: allow your amazing mind to show you how they used 398 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 13: to make you feel. They funny, exciting, adventurous happy. 399 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 2: I saw a vaguely hideous rocking chair in my childhood 400 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 2: bedroom I'd forgotten about. And then I felt myself in 401 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 2: a lap. 402 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 14: I sort of feel like my knees bent must like 403 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 14: unfolded up, like maybe in someone's lap. 404 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 5: It doesn't feel. 405 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 14: Like identifiable, you know, but just that sense of being 406 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 14: kind of like being very small and like gangly. 407 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 2: And then I heard his voice. 408 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 5: I don't remember specific words, but I do sort of remember. 409 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 14: The timbre of my father's voice like now a bit 410 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 14: more kind of the like slow deliberation. 411 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 5: Of his voice. 412 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 2: With every scene I described, Kas would pluck out a 413 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: certain sensation and weave it into her next hypnotic prompt, 414 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 2: to see if it led somewhere new. 415 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 3: So take a nice deep breath, go into that feeling 416 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 3: of being small and gangly, allow yourself to go back 417 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 3: to be immersed in that memory where the salad bowl 418 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 3: is that you see the salad bowl. It's something that's 419 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 3: said his tone we did, perhaps his excitement having shed 420 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 3: such a lively thing with the just notice whatever that 421 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 3: brings next, to take your time, that take all the 422 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 3: time you want. 423 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 8: To be there. 424 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 2: I began to see things, my dad's head turning, and 425 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 2: not the way it might have looked in a photo 426 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 2: taken by someone else, but the feeling of it turning 427 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 2: up close above me. 428 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 7: I have. 429 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 15: The smell is crazy, because you know, people's smell doesn't 430 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 15: linger after they die. I just feels like very immediate 431 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 15: and visceral to sort of flood oneself with that. 432 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 3: To breathe him in. 433 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 5: Funny, I think like thinking about the smell as it 434 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 5: brought me to his closet in my parents' bedroom and 435 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 5: just like that being a sort of center for that smell. 436 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 2: The deepest parts of the trance felt like a vivid 437 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: dream or an intense trip. This really felt but difficult 438 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 2: to put into words. When I was in my parents closet, 439 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 2: for instance, I could also sense this wild topography of 440 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 2: cascading hills and undulating plateaus in shades of blue. It 441 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 2: felt like my brain kept zooming in and out, like 442 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 2: telescoping towards the horizon and back. This was at nine 443 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,959 Speaker 2: in the morning and I hadn't even had coffee, let 444 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 2: alone any other drugs. 445 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 3: So on two, three, lighter and lighter, four, five, six, brighter, 446 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 3: seven and eight and eyes opening up. That's wonderful, nine 447 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 3: and ten and just have a bit of movement moving what. 448 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 14: Whoa cas this is wild, like oh my god, like 449 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 14: so much going on there. 450 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 5: But like the new use of like now is so effective. 451 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 14: But to the point where even when you said other 452 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 14: words with that absonance like sound, it had the same effect. 453 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 14: But it's just like really bonkers again, like this is 454 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 14: such a neo fight, Like whoa, this hypnosis stem is crazy? 455 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 5: You know this already, but I know. 456 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 3: But I slay after twenty odd years, I'm still. 457 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: Like, Wow, this hypnosis stem is so amazing. Before Caz 458 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 2: hypnotized me, I've been expecting images of my father, but 459 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 2: what I got were moods, temperatures, and physical sensations, which 460 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 2: kind of tracks. 461 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 3: Often this is what comes up, especially when people have 462 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,719 Speaker 3: lost a parent when they're very young. It's about just 463 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 3: being in their vicin, in their presence. It's not like 464 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 3: on March the fourth we went to the zoo and 465 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 3: we saw four penguin to giraffe. You know, that tends 466 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 3: not to be what it is. It tends to be 467 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 3: this kind of feeling of just being with somebody. 468 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 2: I'm not sure these memories are real, but I don't 469 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,239 Speaker 2: really care if they're not. They're powerful and we do 470 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 2: forget things all the time, only to find them later. 471 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: That sounds really beautiful. 472 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 2: Well, ultimately it was so tremendous else because it was 473 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 2: like things that don't occur to you if you just 474 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 2: sit down and you know, say to yourself, I'm gonna 475 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: remember my dead dad today. It's like the feeling of 476 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 2: his voice coming through his chest, like the reverberation that 477 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 2: you feel when you're pressed against someone. I was crying 478 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 2: and I've had so many years without my dad. That's 479 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 2: not like a thing I cry about. I've lived most 480 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 2: of my life without him. But I was absolutely a mess. 481 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 2: I was exhausted afterwards as well. 482 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: How has it been sitting with you in the time 483 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: since you did that hypnosis. 484 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,959 Speaker 2: I've been grateful for it. I feel like it was 485 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 2: this lovely way to cultivate some sort of posthumous intimacy. 486 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 2: And I'm really not that attached to the idea of reality, 487 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 2: I guess because I've spent so much of my life 488 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 2: having no idea. If what I think I remember remember 489 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 2: about him is legit, it's like, well, this was really 490 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 2: emotionally affecting and physical, like my skin could feel the 491 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 2: temperature of his body. 492 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: That really attracts with what I've been reading about the 493 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: science of hypnosis. So they've actually hypnotized people and measured 494 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: what's going on in their brains. And when you're in 495 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: a trance and you get a suggestion to feel something, 496 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,959 Speaker 1: your brain behaves as if you're having the actual experience 497 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: in real life. If you're not under hypnosis and you 498 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: get the same suggestion, a totally different part of your 499 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: brain works. 500 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 2: So it really transports you vividly into these memories, and 501 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 2: I think suggest something about the power of our expectations, right, 502 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 2: because hypnosis is kind of capitalizing on this well of 503 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 2: experiences we rack up. Our brain has this whole repertoire 504 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 2: of knowing what it feels like to be held, for instance, 505 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 2: or what pain feels like. So in that state, when 506 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 2: you conjure those things, you're actually reliving them. 507 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: And it points to the fact that our realities are 508 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: already often constructs. When we go about our day, we 509 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: can't actually process all of the different physical stimulation, So 510 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: our brains make predictions, and what hypnosis does is sort 511 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: of harness those to actually imagine something new. 512 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 2: This is a lot like the placebo effect. People who 513 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 2: think they're getting real drugs often experience the same effects. 514 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: That may honestly be a big part of why NLP 515 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: works in therapeutic contexts. You go in with an expectation 516 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: that a rapid quasi magical transformation is going to occur, 517 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: and it does. 518 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 2: It's the power of suggestion and that can be harnessed 519 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 2: to sell to sell pretty much anything. As Baneler told 520 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 2: seminar goers, when I. 521 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 4: Was selling cars, I mean to me, you know, I 522 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 4: mean I literally did a trance at the end of 523 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,239 Speaker 4: the closing. I mean it's as deep a trance as 524 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 4: the one I do at the end of workshops, you know. 525 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,959 Speaker 4: And as they signed the contract, I'd say, now, just 526 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 4: I want you to close your eyes for a minute 527 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 4: and feel good about what you've done. 528 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: Byler didn't actually sell cars, did he. I looked into it, 529 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: but I couldn't verify it. But he was selling NLP 530 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: to people who did sell cars. 531 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 4: Right now, with your eyes shut, you can't see your car. 532 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 4: But in a minute, when you look at your car, 533 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 4: you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings that 534 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 4: you're going to want to share them with other people 535 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 4: to realize that you've made the right decision into realize 536 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 4: who helped you to do that. 537 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: They began marketing NLP as a persuasion technology in their seminars. 538 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: By nineteen seventy nine, they're traveling around training salesmen, lawyers, 539 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: and corporate types trying to close big deals. That's, as 540 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: you just heard in Bandler's DVD, creating Therapeutic change perceptual grids, 541 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: in other words, using the skill set of hypnosis in 542 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: a commercial context, and as part of that, Bandler taught 543 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: people how to modulate their voices. 544 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 6: Try the word relaxed, snaky, snaky, very snaky, because if 545 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 6: you go relax with a little hiss at the end, 546 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 6: poor people like the word now in English really flows 547 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 6: off your tongue. You go now. 548 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: Bandler also taught clients how to read people's nonverbal cues 549 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: and to classify people according to their preferred representational systems. 550 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: That basically just means whether someone thinks in terms of images, sounds, 551 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: or physical sensations. 552 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 4: The thing is, when you put information into a system 553 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 4: and it matches the system perfectly, it's absolutely irresistible. It's 554 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 4: not that the information that you're putting is being forced through. 555 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 4: It's that you can just put it out like bait, 556 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 4: and if it's in the right package, it's irresistible. They 557 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 4: want it. That's why I said, like offering them a 558 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 4: specific vacation, if you can pick one that the person 559 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 4: probably wouldn't go on on their own, and know how 560 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 4: to describe it in terms of metaprograms, they'll want it. 561 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 4: And you can make them want it just because that 562 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 4: packaging of it fits the way they are so much. 563 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 2: So we watch this one together it's a DVD called 564 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 2: Building and Maintaining Generalizations and Bandler saying you should listen 565 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 2: to people and notice if they say things like I 566 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 2: see what you mean instead of I hear you, that 567 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 2: would suggest they're a visual person instead of an auditory person. 568 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: I'm skeptical of this. I feel like those are just 569 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: figures of speech. 570 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 2: And I'm not necessarily sure that you can hack those 571 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 2: systems right, because this is the premise of what Bandler 572 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 2: and Grinder are saying, that once you figure out if 573 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 2: someone is visual or kinesthetic or auditory, then you can 574 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 2: manipulate them by appealing to that system. 575 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: And like in hypnosis, you're speaking to the person's unconscious. 576 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 4: I'm damn blunt, straight a yeat and you know, people 577 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 4: may not like it, but at the unconscious level, they 578 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 4: know they can trust it. 579 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: This is what really made NLP take off Beyond Santa. 580 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 2: Cruz, Bandler and Grinder get written up in Psychology Today 581 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy nine. It's a big, splashy article with 582 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 2: the headline the people who Read People and it went 583 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 2: a long way to legitimize them in their methods. Or 584 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 2: two experts who can teach you how to clock other 585 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 2: people's subtle cues. 586 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: But also exploit them to get what you want. I 587 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,720 Speaker 1: read that article and they were selling how to control 588 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: and manipulate people and basically tip them into a decision 589 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: to buy a car or whatever else. 590 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, this was their product, the power of persuasion, And 591 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 2: by the late nineteen seventies, Bandler and Grinder were full 592 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,320 Speaker 2: time traveling gurus instructing people in all sorts of different 593 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 2: industries in which they had no personal experience how to 594 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 2: be successful. 595 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: And business was pretty good. By nineteen seventy nine, Bandler 596 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: was selling out ten day workshops at one thousand bucks ahead. 597 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 1: He was curing people's phobias and addictions on stage, and 598 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,879 Speaker 1: the psych people who were originally in the room were 599 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: increasingly being joined by corporate salespeople. 600 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 2: That must have been odd for the psychiatrist to suddenly 601 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 2: be sharing a row with like a bunch of car 602 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 2: salesmen who were like, tell me how to control my clients. 603 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they left. 604 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,959 Speaker 2: So with this new cash flow, Bandler moved from living 605 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 2: on the Spitzer Commune to ac super splashy nouveau riche mansion. 606 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 2: Please describe, well, it was very California playboy. It had 607 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 2: shag carpets, a swimming pool, big redwood beams, a tennis court, 608 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 2: and the garage was stacked. He bought two BMW's, a 609 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 2: Fiat Spider, and a Mercedes. Dude also bought a vacation 610 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,760 Speaker 2: home in Hawaii, because you know, sometimes you just got 611 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,240 Speaker 2: to take a break from the oppressive mansion life. Okay, 612 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 2: but as Bandler and Grinder got more successful, their early 613 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,439 Speaker 2: mentors got worried. 614 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 10: And John were suddenly in the business of holding trainings 615 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 10: and seminars and acting as stage therapists. They had no 616 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 10: certification this therapists and no background as therapists, but suddenly 617 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 10: they were doing it on the stage, kind of like 618 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,439 Speaker 10: a magic show. Felt a little bit like hucksterism. 619 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 2: Bandler and Grinder's focus on quick fixes, their obsession with 620 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 2: reading people for personal gain, and their interest in covert 621 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 2: persuasion concerned Daniel's father, doctor Bob Spitzer. If you remember 622 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 2: from last episode, Bob was basically an adoptive father to 623 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 2: Bandler and a major early supporter of NLP. 624 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 10: Richard Bandler and John Grinder were very affective in what 625 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 10: they did often, but there was collateral damage from time 626 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 10: to time. And what happens in the stage doesn't necessarily 627 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 10: translate into what happens subsequently off the stage, And I 628 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 10: know that my father was really concerned about what would 629 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 10: happen afterwards. 630 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 2: Family therapist Virginia Setier, one of the main people Bandler 631 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 2: and Grinder borrowed from, also expressed her concerns to Daniel. 632 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 10: Particularly when it became manipulative. How do you recognize how 633 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 10: people organize their thoughts and then work with their language 634 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 10: in a way to modify their thoughts. That's sinister, and 635 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 10: she was very uncomfortable. She told me that several times. 636 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 2: So you think Bandler was fully cognizant that bringing it 637 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 2: in this direction was unethical. 638 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 10: These are brilliant guys, or at least very smart guys, 639 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 10: and they heard plenty of times from plenty of people 640 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 10: that what they were doing was questionable, and there was 641 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 10: desperation there. Richard hung with the wrong people. He did 642 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 10: massive amounts of cocaine, and cocaine is really difficult on 643 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 10: people's brains, and he carried a gun for years, and 644 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 10: these kinds of forces can really twist your mind for 645 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 10: a period of time. 646 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: Bandler's cocaine use has been documented in court testimony, as 647 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:51,799 Speaker 1: has his gun ownership. Ultimately, Bandler's response to critics was 648 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:56,720 Speaker 1: something like fuck em, as he told paying seminargers. 649 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 4: Because it wasn't easy, you know, to be the new 650 00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 4: kid on the block and come in and say, look, 651 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 4: everything you're doing works, but you don't know when or how. 652 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 1: This is Bandler speaking at a seminar during the nineteen eighties. 653 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 4: People would go, oh, no, we don't want to know consciously. 654 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,879 Speaker 4: If we know consciously, then then we'd be manipulating who 655 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 4: knows we might even be effective, and then we wouldn't 656 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,280 Speaker 4: have clients. We'd run out. That was the big psychotherapists 657 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 4: fear when they'd learned they'd learn NLP. They think, but 658 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 4: if I cure all my clients, how will I make 659 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 4: my car payments? And I've tried to reassure them there 660 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 4: is plenty of nuts around. There's no shortage of them whatsoever. 661 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 1: Bandler made it out like therapists were criticizing him out 662 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: of self interest, that they wouldn't make as much money 663 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: if someone started curing their patients more efficiently. But it 664 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 1: sounds like they were worried about something else. 665 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 2: Something that had crept into NLP. The thrill of controlling 666 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 2: other people. In nineteen eighty three, Science Died Just published 667 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 2: a story on NLP featuring various critics sounding the alarm bells. 668 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 2: One cult expert quoted in the article said NLP could 669 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,280 Speaker 2: become the most sophisticated mind control technology ever. 670 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: Detractors were especially worried about the ways it could be 671 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: used in the marketplace, where NLP seemed to, like quote, 672 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 1: a hazardous tool for personal manipulation and in the wrong hands, 673 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: a dangerous instrument of social control. 674 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 2: At the time, Grinder said he was getting a dozen 675 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 2: complaints every month about what he called unethical manipulation people 676 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,800 Speaker 2: teaching car salesmen and others to do unscrupulous things with NLP. 677 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: This trend seemed to bother Grinder. He said he'd kicked 678 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,680 Speaker 1: people out of seminars who didn't seem like they were 679 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:38,720 Speaker 1: there for the right reasons. 680 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 2: Still, he and Bandler had trained about five thousand people 681 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 2: in NLP at this point, and those people had gone 682 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 2: on to train as many as fifty thousand more. NLP 683 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 2: was spreading fast. 684 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: And these techniques actually seemed to work. That's what frightened 685 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: NLP's detractors. 686 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,839 Speaker 2: The most NLP had its critics, but it also got 687 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 2: some new fans. US military and spies rush to hire 688 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 2: Richard Bandler, John Grinder and a young kid who would 689 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 2: take NLP global. 690 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,759 Speaker 9: I'm Tony Robbins. You know I'm a business specialist and 691 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 9: formance coach. He's a variety of techniques and tools. I 692 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 9: have a one hundred and fourteen companies across about twelve 693 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 9: different industries. We do today about nine billion dollars in business. 694 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,720 Speaker 9: But I think the thing you're most interested in, ID assume, 695 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,839 Speaker 9: is what I'm doing related to my history with anir 696 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,800 Speaker 9: linguistic programming NLP. Is that correct? 697 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 2: Next time Online Games, I interview Tony Robbins about where 698 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 2: his empire began. 699 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,880 Speaker 1: But wait, wait, wait did we control your mind? 700 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,160 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, dear listeners, you have to tell us if 701 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:49,240 Speaker 2: we managed to manipulate you with our masterful double induction demo. 702 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, so here's the reveal. Did any of you go 703 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,280 Speaker 1: get a drink of water or juice or any other liquid? 704 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 2: Let us know in the comments. We were trying to 705 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 2: make you thirsty. Mind Games is a Kaleidoscope production in 706 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,240 Speaker 2: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The series is created and hosted 707 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 2: by me Zoe Lascaz and Alice Hines. It's produced by 708 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 2: writer Alsop and Dara Luk Potts, edited by Kate Osborne. 709 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 2: Editorial consulting from Adeza Egan, original composition and mixing by 710 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 2: Steve Bone. 711 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: Fact checking by Aman Whalen from Kaleidoscope. Our executive producers 712 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: are Ozwaloshin, Mangesh Hattikador, and Kate Osborne from iHeart. Our 713 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: executive producers are Katrina Norville and Nikki Etour. 714 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 2: Special thanks to kas Riley for hypnotizing me. Check her 715 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 2: out at Kasreilly dot com.