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Speaker 1: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't

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Speaker 1: a liability, it's a real gift. If we don't know

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Speaker 1: something about ourselves at this point in our life, it's

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Speaker 1: probably because it's uncomfortable to know.

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Speaker 2: If you can die before you die, then you can

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Speaker 2: really live. There's a wisdom at death's door.

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Speaker 1: I thought I was insane. Yeah, and I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what to do because there was no Internet. I don't know, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I feel like everything is hard.

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Speaker 2: Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a human first

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Speaker 2: and a licensed therapist second. And right now I'm inviting

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Speaker 2: you into conversations that I hope encourage you to become

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Speaker 2: more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others, and the

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Speaker 2: world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy. Hi guys,

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Speaker 2: and welcome to the latest episode of Unique Therapy podcast.

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Speaker 2: My name is Kat. I'm so glad you're here, especially

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Speaker 2: especially today. This is this is gonna be a good one.

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Speaker 2: So our guest is Laura Tremaine and she's an OG blogger.

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Speaker 2: Like OG, she was in the beginnings of blogging when

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Speaker 2: blogging was like an actual blog, and she has turned

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Speaker 2: into an author who writes about friendship, anxiety, motherhood, and marriage.

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Speaker 2: And she's about to release a new book called The

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Speaker 2: Life Council, all about friendship, which we can all relate to,

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Speaker 2: right Hopefully we all have friendships, or we're looking for friendships,

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Speaker 2: or we want to improve our friendships. And I seriously

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Speaker 2: loved getting to talk to Laura. It was such a

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Speaker 2: refreshing conversation. I learned so much. I learned so much

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Speaker 2: from this book before I even got to talk to her,

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Speaker 2: so many questions, and it was just really cool to

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Speaker 2: see her perspective on friendship in what she's learned through

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Speaker 2: the ups and the downs, not just one or the

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Speaker 2: other of her own relationships. So if you want to

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Speaker 2: hear more or get more of Laura after this conversation,

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Speaker 2: you can find her on Instagram Laura dot Tremaine. I

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Speaker 2: will put all of the links to her stuff in

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Speaker 2: the show notes so you can just click it and

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Speaker 2: find her. So I hope you enjoyed the conversation I

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Speaker 2: had with Laura as much as I enjoyed it. And

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Speaker 2: let's not keep you waiting any longer. Here is my

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Speaker 2: conversation with Laura Tremaine. All right, guys, welcome, back. I

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Speaker 2: am super excited, and I'm also trying to look for

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Speaker 2: a new way to say super excited because I say

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Speaker 2: it so often. But I am excited about this week's guest.

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Speaker 2: I just learned the right pronunciation of her name. Actually

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Speaker 2: I didn't ask you about your last name, but we're

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Speaker 2: gonna see if I get it right, because and you

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Speaker 2: guys might be like, why would you have to ask that?

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Speaker 2: But if you ever have met somebody name laure A,

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Speaker 2: that's how you spell it right. Yes, Okay, if you

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Speaker 2: ever meet somebody named Lara, you really should ask if

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Speaker 2: they go by Laura or Laura, because a lot of

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Speaker 2: times it's Laura and you would think it's Laura. I

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Speaker 2: know that because somebody in my life's named that, so

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Speaker 2: I asked, and it's Laura. So welcome Laura Tremaine. I

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Speaker 2: pronounced the last name right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I did it perfect, And actually, thank you

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Speaker 1: for asking about the first name. I don't even think

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Speaker 1: about it that much anymore, but so many people in

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Speaker 1: my life, including my husband, pronounce it wrong.

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Speaker 2: That is so wild to me. I think maybe I

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Speaker 2: also always want to get somebody's name right because my

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Speaker 2: first name is Catherine or Kat and so you can't

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Speaker 2: really pronounce that wrong. But my last name is Defada,

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Speaker 2: and it rarely is pronounced correctly. It's usually Defata, which

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Speaker 2: brings up a whole nother realm of childhood trauma for me.

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Speaker 2: So I just like to get things right. So anyway, welcome.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited you're here.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

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Speaker 2: So Laura has written a new book called The Life Council,

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Speaker 2: and I read the book. I loved it, and I

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Speaker 2: will be honest. I went into this book being like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'll read this so I can help other people. And

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Speaker 2: as I started reading it, it was in the very beginning,

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Speaker 2: we'll get to this. I'm kind of getting ahead of myself.

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Speaker 2: In the very beginning, there's something that I read that

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, you are reading this

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Speaker 2: book for yourself right now, and you can also read

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Speaker 2: it to gain knowledge to help other people. But there's

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Speaker 2: part that really hit me, and it seemed kind of minuscule,

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Speaker 2: but to me, it made a really big deal. So

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Speaker 2: I want to talk all about that. I'm very excited

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Speaker 2: about it. But before I ask all my burning questions,

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Speaker 2: can you give us like a cliffs note version of

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Speaker 2: kind of like who you are and what led you

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Speaker 2: to this specific book.

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Speaker 1: Sure, my name's Laura Trevade As established we have that cleared.

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Speaker 1: I'm an author, now I'm a podcaster. I'm a mom.

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Speaker 1: I live in Los Angeles and have lived here for

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Speaker 1: twenty three years almost. But I grew up in a

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Speaker 1: really small town in Oklahoma, and so growing up in

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Speaker 1: a small town and now living in one of the

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Speaker 1: largest cities on the globe, those two things like really

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Speaker 1: inform a lot of what I talk about. And I

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Speaker 1: worked in reality TV when I first moved to LA

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Speaker 1: straight out of college. I worked in film and television

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Speaker 1: production for a long time, and then when I started

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Speaker 1: my family, it was like the height of mommy blogging era.

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Speaker 1: And I had moved to Los Angeles to become a writer.

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Speaker 1: That's what I always wanted to do. But then, you know,

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Speaker 1: I got sidetracked into production and writing jobs in the

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Speaker 1: entertainment industry are really hard to come by, and so

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Speaker 1: I had not actually been a writer for the whole

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Speaker 1: of my twenties. So now here I was with like

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Speaker 1: a baby on my lap, and I started a mommy

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Speaker 1: blog and I loved it. I loved blogging it opened

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Speaker 1: so many doors for me. I could just like, we

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Speaker 1: could do a whole show just about how I feel

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Speaker 1: like women changed the Internet and changed the world in

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Speaker 1: that time. But you know, the Internet started to change,

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Speaker 1: social media became a bigger deal, Blogging started to fade out,

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Speaker 1: and so then I moved to podcasting, which was also

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Speaker 1: becoming really popular, and you know, it was also very

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Speaker 1: active on social media. In all of those areas, like

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Speaker 1: first blogging, then social media, then podcasting, the topic of

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Speaker 1: friendship came up all the time. Now partially it came

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Speaker 1: up because I was writing about being lonely. So one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I wrote about in my earliest

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Speaker 1: blogging days was once I had left film and television

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Speaker 1: and was home with a baby, I went through a

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Speaker 1: really lonely time period. I felt like I didn't have

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Speaker 1: any friends here in LA and this like huge, big city.

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Speaker 1: I did everything I could to make friends and it

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Speaker 1: just fell flat. Like I was really lonely, And I

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Speaker 1: was writing about that a little bit on the Internet.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it's not a CoA. I guess that

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Speaker 1: this friendship topic kept coming up, but like with readers

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Speaker 1: and then eventually listeners and followers on social Like it

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Speaker 1: just kept coming up that adult friendship was so much

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Speaker 1: harder than we expected, and that it was a thing

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Speaker 1: people didn't talk about honestly. You know, people got really

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Speaker 1: honest about the work of marriage or the struggles of parenthood.

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Speaker 1: Like there's things that we talk about candidly now that

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Speaker 1: we didn't used to. Friendship is not one of them.

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Speaker 1: Like people don't talk about friendship because it feels like, well,

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Speaker 1: friendship is sort of an unending resource. There's all these

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Speaker 1: people we could be friends with or not, or it

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like a thing that has to have all

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Speaker 1: this intention or work to it, like theoretically, but that

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Speaker 1: is not how it's been in my adulthood, Like, friendship

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Speaker 1: has been a huge, huge area that I've had to

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Speaker 1: work on and go through hard times with and then

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Speaker 1: also enjoy because I have wonderful, amazing friends in my

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Speaker 1: life and so I just like, as I was talking

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Speaker 1: about it online, I wrote my first book about connection

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Speaker 1: with other people, and then this book felt like the

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Speaker 1: next natural step. My first book was called Share your

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Speaker 1: Stuff I'll go first, was about sharing yourself in order

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Speaker 1: to connect with others, and then this felt like the

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Speaker 1: next natural thing. The Life Counsel, which was written as

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Speaker 1: a way to sort of think about the friendships in

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Speaker 1: your life and you know, sort of elevate these relationships

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Speaker 1: instead of taking them for granted or feeling the lack

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Speaker 1: or I really wanted to talk about so many angles

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Speaker 1: of friendships. So here we are with the Life Counsel.

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Speaker 2: Well, and you did. There are so many, Like I

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Speaker 2: kept being like, oh, this is good, and then like

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Speaker 2: I turned the page and there's another paragraph. I'm like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is another thing that comes up, and this is

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Speaker 2: another thing that comes up. And as you're talking just now,

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Speaker 2: I was kind of thinking about, like, well, why is

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Speaker 2: it easy to talk about the struggles in this area

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Speaker 2: in this area in this area and specifically like romantic partners,

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Speaker 2: like whether it's a lack of that or their struggles

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Speaker 2: in the marriage. Yeah, people aren't then talking about I

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Speaker 2: don't have friends, and it almost in my head I

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Speaker 2: was like, I wonder why that is. And the first

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Speaker 2: thing that popped up is, well, that might be embarrassing,

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Speaker 2: which is tied to shame of like there's shame in

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Speaker 2: that because you said like there's like an abundance, like

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Speaker 2: there's so many people and you can have so many friends.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you're only looking for one partner, and your

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Speaker 2: partner's only looking for one partner. But when it comes

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Speaker 2: to friends, you shouldn't have a problem with that because

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Speaker 2: people can have as many as they want. And then

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Speaker 2: why wouldn't you be in a circle. And I always

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Speaker 2: think about how weird it is that you grow up

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Speaker 2: and you have automatic friends. It's like your parents' kids

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Speaker 2: or your cousins, and then the people in your class,

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Speaker 2: and then the people on your soccer team, and then

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Speaker 2: college it's like the people in the club that you're

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Speaker 2: part of or the sorority that you're in, and then

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Speaker 2: you grow up and then I guess sometimes it's like

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Speaker 2: the people at work. But then in the pandemic it

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Speaker 2: was like, well, you're at home by yourself, and so

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Speaker 2: you go through this like we you have these automatic

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Speaker 2: plugs of friends, and then as an adult, we don't

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Speaker 2: have that as much unless we're going out and doing

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Speaker 2: all these things. But it's not as easy. And the

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Speaker 2: other struggle I see is I might start here and

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Speaker 2: I have these automatic friends, but what happens when I

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Speaker 2: grow and I change and I'm morph and I learn

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Speaker 2: more about who I am and I take off my masks,

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Speaker 2: But then like, should I still be friends with these

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Speaker 2: people because I met them when I was three and

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Speaker 2: that's like such a nice story, and like those people

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Speaker 2: might not I might not even like them. I think

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Speaker 2: we're going to get to that. I'm getting ahead of myself,

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Speaker 2: but I want to go backwards because in the beginning

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Speaker 2: of the book, or more towards the beginning, do you

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Speaker 2: have these archetypes of the types of friends, and then

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Speaker 2: you had these philosophies. So I want you to tell

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Speaker 2: us what the philosophies are and how you came up

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Speaker 2: with yours, Like what is a friendship philosophy? And how

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Speaker 2: did you develop the ones that are in the book?

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Speaker 2: Like where did those come from?

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Speaker 1: I made them up completely, But it was after or

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Speaker 1: thinking about this, like I said, for a decade. I

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Speaker 1: mean I didn't just you know, it wasn't a gimmick

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Speaker 1: for the book. It was like I had to really,

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Speaker 1: as I was working on my own friendships, think about

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Speaker 1: what mattered here. And for me, it's easier to work

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Speaker 1: from a sort of an established set of rules almost

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Speaker 1: like these are my friendship rules, and that was helpful

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Speaker 1: for me. It's this whole thing. The whole book is

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Speaker 1: helpful for personalities that like a framework. You know, some

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Speaker 1: people don't think like this, their brain doesn't work like this.

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Speaker 1: But for me, when I felt like I was swimming

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Speaker 1: in the sea of loneliness, when I wasn't really sure

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Speaker 1: how to make this work, because like you said, I

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Speaker 1: had friendships served up to me on a silver platter.

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Speaker 1: When I was growing up. I grew up in this

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Speaker 1: small town. Everybody knows everybody. I went to college, I

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Speaker 1: was in a sorority, you know. I had family friends

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Speaker 1: and summer camp friends, and I had all these different

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Speaker 1: areas where I didn't have to try very hard because

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Speaker 1: we were part of some kind of institution or community

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Speaker 1: already that just sort of forced you together. So when

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Speaker 1: you're at school or a church or whatever your life

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Speaker 1: looks like, and you're with people for chunks of time

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Speaker 1: every single day or every single week, you're sort of

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Speaker 1: just friends by proximity. It can be about connection, but

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Speaker 1: it can also just be like, well, we're all here

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Speaker 1: all the time together, like we know each other. And

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Speaker 1: so when I got to adulthood and I moved to

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles and didn't know anybody. When I moved here,

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Speaker 1: I had never had to like work that muscle. I

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Speaker 1: had never had to be like can we be friends?

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Speaker 1: Like are we friends?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: I had never done the weird like friendship, dating, dance

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. I didn't even know you had to

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Speaker 1: do it. I had only experienced like you're friends with

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Speaker 1: the people around you. And so when I found myself

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Speaker 1: without a consistent people around me, I was in a

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Speaker 1: career that changed every few months. I got to work

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Speaker 1: on a TV show for a few months, and then

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Speaker 1: it would change and be a different show. So there

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Speaker 1: was no like structure like that I had had previously

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Speaker 1: in my life. And now in you know, twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: where a lot of people work from home, where jobs

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Speaker 1: and careers look really untraditional, in some ways, people are

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Speaker 1: feeling the same thing of like, oh, you have to

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Speaker 1: like ask people to be friends, or I mean, you

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Speaker 1: have to like make an effort, you have to make plans,

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Speaker 1: you have to check in on one another, you have

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Speaker 1: to do these things. That becomes my very first friendship philosophy,

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Speaker 1: which is friendship is a to do, which is something

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Speaker 1: I had to learn that it's chure, feels like or

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Speaker 1: task or all these will have like negative connotations to them,

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Speaker 1: but it's actually a thing for me on my to

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Speaker 1: do list. I still handwrite my to do list every day,

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Speaker 1: and I have a list of things I need to

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Speaker 1: do for work. I have a list of things I

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Speaker 1: need to do in my personal life. I'm a mom,

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Speaker 1: so you know, personal life stuff. And then I have

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Speaker 1: a list for relationship or connection and it's like, remember

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Speaker 1: to check in with Julie, Remember Ashley's birthday is coming up,

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Speaker 1: you know, text someone back, call someone that I haven't

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Speaker 1: talked to in a while, like all these different things.

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Speaker 1: Because if I do not put those things on a

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Speaker 1: literal to do list, they won't get done.

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Speaker 2: That was really helpful to me because I share I

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Speaker 2: think a similar part of personality where I just forget.

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Speaker 2: I'm personally not very organized in my mind or in

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Speaker 2: my life and lifestyle. And so I used to think

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Speaker 2: it was this like, oh, like this flaw in me

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Speaker 2: where I'm like, you didn't remember that, or you can't

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Speaker 2: remember that, or why don't you remember so and so

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Speaker 2: saying that she was flying out to this place on

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Speaker 2: Wednesday at this time, when she was getting in at

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Speaker 2: this time, and everybody else remembers it, Like why didn't

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Speaker 2: you check in with that person to see how their

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Speaker 2: flight went? Why didn't you check in with that person

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Speaker 2: after their little kid had this appointment? And then I

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Speaker 2: realized I always say like, I'm not very thoughtful. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if that's what it is, though, No, I

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Speaker 2: think it's that's not what it is. Being thoughtful takes

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Speaker 2: a little bit of effort for me, Like it is

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Speaker 2: a to do. Like I want to be thoughtful, and

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Speaker 2: I do think about people, but I don't think in

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Speaker 2: that way. My brain isn't organized that way. So when

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Speaker 2: I was reading that, I was like, oh, this is

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Speaker 2: a thing that like a lot of people probably have

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Speaker 2: to do, and it doesn't have to be a bad thing.

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Speaker 2: It's just this is how my brain works. So if

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Speaker 2: I want to show up in this way, then you're

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Speaker 2: going to have to do this thing right.

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Speaker 1: Like I can tell that you care about the people

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Speaker 1: in your life. You care about your friends, you hold

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Speaker 1: them in your heart, but it's not translating to action

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Speaker 1: sometimes and you're calling that being thoughtless, But that's not thoughtless.

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Speaker 1: You just need like a device to sort of translate

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Speaker 1: what's in your heart and how you feel for them

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Speaker 1: into some kind of an action, and I did too.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that there's a tinge of shame

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Speaker 1: here and you're even sharing it about yourself that we

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Speaker 1: expect this to be natural. If you're not naturally good

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Speaker 1: at this, then you're a bad person. You know. People

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Speaker 1: feel this way also about parenthood or whatever. If you're

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Speaker 1: not naturally nurturing, well, a lot of people are not

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Speaker 1: naturally nurturing. They have to teach themselves to translate how

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Speaker 1: they feel to their little baby. They have to teach themselves.

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Speaker 1: The same is true in friendship or in any kind

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Speaker 1: of relationship, and so I wanted to speak to that

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Speaker 1: because it isn't natural to me. I am very easily distracted.

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Speaker 1: I can go weeks and just be in the busyness

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Speaker 1: of my life like head down, I'm working, i'm momming,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing my life, and I'll look up and be like, well,

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Speaker 1: I haven't even I haven't talked to my friends in

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Speaker 1: literal weeks. And sometimes that's just a season, but sometimes

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Speaker 1: that's not showing them that I care. And I actually

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Speaker 1: went through friendship struggles that taught me this philosophy, like

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Speaker 1: friendship is it to do? I had friends basically say

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Speaker 1: to me, like you have to text me back. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like this is what relationship is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And I always used to say, this is coming

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Speaker 2: up for me right now. I didn't even think about

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Speaker 2: this before. I don't like talking on the phone, like

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Speaker 2: I hate it, hate it. I feel trapped. I literally

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Speaker 2: can't wear earpod things air pods because they don't stand

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Speaker 2: my ears. So I can't be hands free and doing

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Speaker 2: something else. I'm connected to something. I don't like talking

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Speaker 2: on the phone. I used to say, Oh, that's just me,

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00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,359
Speaker 2: and like, so I'm not gonna call you. And so

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Speaker 2: I have all of these friends from that I really

336
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,600
Speaker 2: do love that. I just don't live near them anymore,

337
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Speaker 2: whether it's from college or they moved away or whatever.

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Speaker 2: And those relationships so much space gets in them. Not

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Speaker 2: because I like literally don't care about what they're doing,

340
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Speaker 2: but I don't like talking on the phone, so I

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Speaker 2: just don't do it. I will ignore phone calls, which

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Speaker 2: is my own thing. But what I've noticed with one

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Speaker 2: specific friend is if I schedule a phone call, hey

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Speaker 2: I'm free this time. I think. Also it happened is

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Speaker 2: something with like when I have things to do, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to be interrupted, and like how long is

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Speaker 2: this phone call gonna take my friend? I haven't talked

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Speaker 2: to her in three months. But anyway, but when I

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Speaker 2: schedule these phone calls, then I will do them. And

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Speaker 2: it's worked to schedule them, and it's worked for me

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Speaker 2: to be on them. But I never regret a long

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Speaker 2: phone call with a good friend. I don't think I've

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Speaker 2: ever regretted that. And so I'm feeling that right now

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Speaker 2: as I instead of making an excuse of like, well,

355
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Speaker 2: I just don't like talking on the phone, friendship is work,

356
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Speaker 2: and if I want to maintain these friendships, I need

357
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Speaker 2: to acknowledge that those parts of me. It kind of

358
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Speaker 2: reminds me when when people are like, well, I'm just

359
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,600
Speaker 2: honest and so I'm just gonna say whatever, and I'm like, well,

360
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Speaker 2: that's not an excuse for being mean. So I'm not

361
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:27,840
Speaker 2: an excuse for not keeping in touch with people. I

362
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Speaker 2: just have to put in the work.

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Speaker 1: Two things about that. One is you could find a

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Speaker 1: way that does work better for you, Like if you

365
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Speaker 1: would prefer to do Zoom or FaceTime, or I use

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Speaker 1: an app with my friends called Voxer that I love

367
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,199
Speaker 1: a ton. It's a voice messaging app and you go

368
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,400
Speaker 1: back and forth. So, yeah, if you could find one

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Speaker 1: of these ways that works better for you, because I

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Speaker 1: don't think you have to like completely guiding yourself to

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Speaker 1: thank you to keep up your relationships. So find a

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Speaker 1: way that works better for you, or you know, break

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Speaker 1: it down into chunks so it's not a three hour

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Speaker 1: phone call every time time, Like you know, you're just

375
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,080
Speaker 1: gonna you have thirty minutes, so let's do as much

376
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,560
Speaker 1: as we can in thirty minutes to catch up or whatever.

377
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,440
Speaker 1: Or you can accept that's not a friendship that you're

378
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 1: gonna be able to foster because that the only way

379
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,959
Speaker 1: she communicates is is phone calls or whatever. I mean,

380
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,639
Speaker 1: you really have to weigh those out. But for me,

381
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 1: I bought in for a while. There's like this sort

382
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,040
Speaker 1: of idea online of like you don't have to be

383
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,200
Speaker 1: available to everyone, You don't have to text everyone back.

384
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Speaker 1: The phone is not the boss of you if you're

385
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 1: an introvert, or your or your anxiety kicks up, or

386
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 1: all these different things. And I bought into that as

387
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Speaker 1: like a self care thing for a long time, Like

388
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 1: it's self care to not have to text everyone back,

389
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Speaker 1: and that's fine. I was free to do that. You

390
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 1: know what that also did hurt my friendships.

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Speaker 2: Uh amen, I am so glad you said that.

392
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Speaker 1: And I'm not pooh pooing's the self care idea. There's

393
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 1: a lot of good that comes out of those conversations

394
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 1: that you know, women didn't have for centuries and now

395
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,479
Speaker 1: we're able to speak like that. But there is a

396
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 1: tipping point of okay, but are we putting up so

397
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 1: many boundaries that now we're lonely because we're protecting ourselves

398
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 1: too much.

399
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,359
Speaker 2: It goes from like you have no boundaries to you

400
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,439
Speaker 2: have these rigid boundaries, and we need to have like

401
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 2: have boundaries, but have flexibility. And I think in a

402
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 2: lot of things that are coming up lately in the

403
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,119
Speaker 2: world is we have to like swing the pendulum all

404
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 2: the way to one side to get somebody to listen.

405
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 2: So we have to go extreme to like no is

406
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 2: a is a complete sentence and ignore your like kind

407
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 2: of what you're saying. But then we need to realize,

408
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 2: like sometimes people need to hear more than just no,

409
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 2: And yeah, you can have the ability to say I

410
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 2: don't have to pick up that phone call, but also

411
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 2: ask yourself some questions like am I avoiding? Am I

412
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,480
Speaker 2: being too rigid all of that. So I'm so glad

413
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 2: that you said that.

414
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Speaker 1: And that's just the first friendship philosophy.

415
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, four more, Yes, Okay, go to the next one,

416
00:20:58,400 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 2: because I could stay on that for an hour.

417
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 1: The next one is believe the best. And I'm going

418
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: to guess in your practice that you have to talk

419
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,879
Speaker 1: around this idea a lot. It is so easy, in

420
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,719
Speaker 1: our own insecurities or with our own baggage or whatever,

421
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 1: to tell ourselves these stories of like, well, they secretly

422
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,360
Speaker 1: don't like me, they're ghosting me, they're being mean, they're

423
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 1: trying to embarrass me in front of other people at

424
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 1: you know, girls' night out or whatever. We tell ourselves

425
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,199
Speaker 1: all these stories. I'm not saying that our stories are

426
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,160
Speaker 1: one hundred percent false. They're oftentimes they are rooted in something,

427
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 1: and we need to listen to our own instincts. And

428
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 1: also we have to start in our friendships with believing

429
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 1: the best of one another. I have to believe that

430
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 1: you were not trying to hurt my feelings. Now, maybe

431
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 1: you did hurt my feelings and we still need to

432
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 1: talk about it, but I have to start that conversation

433
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 1: from a place of believing that you didn't mean to that.

434
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,360
Speaker 1: You're not trying to hurt me. That you're a good person,

435
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 1: you know, and we just had a weird moment. I

436
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 1: need to believe the best about you, because I really

437
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,199
Speaker 1: need you to believe the best about me, because I

438
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 1: am also going to hurt your feelings or I am

439
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 1: going to forget to text you back for two months

440
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: or whatever I'm going to do. And even if we

441
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 1: have to address whatever happened in our friendship, we have

442
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: to start from this believing the best of one another.

443
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: My own anxieties and insecurities get in the way of

444
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 1: that because I start to think, well, I don't believe

445
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: the best of other people. They're not trying as hard

446
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: as they could. They are being mean to me, like whatever.

447
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: All these different things that I say, and that takes

448
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 1: the friendship down. It's not assuming the best of one another.

449
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: Is not helping our relationship.

450
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 2: It's like poison. Yeah, I talk about I do talk

451
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 2: about that a lot, the assumption of positive intent of

452
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 2: and sometimes it's true sometimes people don't have positive intent,

453
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 2: and there's time and a place to have that conversation.

454
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 2: But with the people that we're in close relationships with

455
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 2: or that we're beginning or creating close relationships, wires get crossed.

456
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 2: And if I take the lens that I have seen

457
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 2: the world through in my experiences and my bloss about myself,

458
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 2: whether they're positive or negative, and I assume that like

459
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 2: the negative parts, and I assume that everybody's looking through

460
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 2: that same lens, I can really really really really mess

461
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 2: up a hard conversation or a confrontation, which can be

462
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 2: very healthy if we don't start that conversation like what

463
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 2: you're saying, like believing the best, Like hey, my feelings

464
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 2: were hurt, and I know that that probably wasn't your intention,

465
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 2: and so talk to me about what you said so

466
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 2: I can understand where our wires got crossed. Because in

467
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 2: my history, this is what that meant, and this is

468
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 2: the story that I ended up making up in my head,

469
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 2: and I don't think that story is true.

470
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: Like that is so important, so important, I mean, we

471
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 1: can sometimes we learn that people don't have the best

472
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,239
Speaker 1: of intentions. Unfortunately, sometimes we do learn that. But I

473
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 1: want to start from a place of believing the best,

474
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: and then maybe occasionally you find out information that that's

475
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: not true. I'd rather it go that direction than start

476
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 1: believing the worst, and they have to constantly prove to

477
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 1: me that they have good intentions.

478
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 2: And defend them.

479
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: That's not Yeah, that's not the right dynamic.

480
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah. I don't want to be friends with

481
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 2: somebody who I have to constantly defend myself to exactly.

482
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: So that's the second friendship philosophy. The third one is

483
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: just go. This is especially apt post pandemic life, where

484
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 1: we have all trained ourselves to not go to someone's

485
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 1: birthday dinner, to someone's wedding that is sort of on

486
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 1: an annoying weekend, to not go to their little ceremony

487
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: about their work promotion. I don't know, there's so many

488
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 1: opportunities for us to go. And this goes back a

489
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: little bit to the self care conversation. We have given

490
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 1: ourselves all kinds of permission to not go, like, oh,

491
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: I have to get my eight hours of sleep. Oh

492
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: I have to like really stick within my very exact budget.

493
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: I am an introvert, so I can't expend that much energy.

494
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: Like all these ways that the self care movement has

495
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: taught us to not go has deeply affected our communities

496
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: and our culture and our relationships. And sometimes I don't

497
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: know where this got lost in the shuffle, part of

498
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: its pandemic, part of its Internet. Sometimes you just have

499
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: to go. You are not in the mood to go

500
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: to this birthday dinner, you don't like the restaurant, you

501
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: don't like the person's husband, you are tired, it's their birthday,

502
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: and you need to suck it up and go. This

503
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 1: is what relationship is, and not at the total expense

504
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: of yourself all the time. But it's the same conversation

505
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: as earlier of like the pendulum has swung too far

506
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: to be like we're just missing each other's lives.

507
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 2: I have this conversation kind of often with clients, is

508
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 2: there's a thing called grace, But when we give ourselves

509
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 2: grace in every single moment of every single second of

510
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: our life, that's not grace. That's just not being a

511
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 2: human with responsibilities, yes, and doing hard things and so yeah,

512
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 2: sometimes you just have to I feel as a therapist,

513
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 2: I can't say this anymore. But I also feel like

514
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 2: that's hurting us. It's like sometimes we just have to

515
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 2: suck it up and we have to find ways, like

516
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 2: if that's gonna take a lot of emotional energy to

517
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: go to my friend's birthday and XYZ okay, and I

518
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: might need to go to that, So I'm gonna go

519
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 2: to that, and then I might need to find some

520
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 2: time or ways to soothe myself after that. Yes, like

521
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 2: that's okay, Like it's okay to have because then we're

522
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: gonna get in the situation where like we are stuck

523
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: in our homes and we have no resiliency, like we

524
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 2: have no ability to I mean, are we ever gonna

525
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 2: go to a job interview? Or are we ever gonna

526
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 2: go on a if we're single, are you ever gonna

527
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 2: go on a first date? Because our anxiety and are

528
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 2: all these things Instead of saying I have anxiety or

529
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 2: I'm nervous or I get uncomfortable in these situations, those

530
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 2: aren't always stop signs. Sometimes they're like a hey, slow down,

531
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: you might need something to help you do this thing,

532
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 2: but it doesn't necessarily mean you can't do this thing.

533
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: And for me, why this became an actual friendship philosophy

534
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: not just like a directive yeah, is because I found

535
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: myself weighing pros and cons sometimes in a way that

536
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: felt like icky to me, Like I don't want to

537
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: weigh the pros and cons of Like is this birthday

538
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: dinner worth it. I just keep using that as an example,

539
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: but like is this event worth it? And this one's not?

540
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: And like if I don't get sleep on this night,

541
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: can I, you know, do is she a good enough

542
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: friend to sacrifice sleep for whatever? I kept finding myself

543
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: like weighing, like doing a pro and con list sometimes,

544
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: and then I was like, you know what, this is

545
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: not how I want to be in relationship if it

546
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,479
Speaker 1: is within my ability to go financially availability, like if

547
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: if if it is available to go, I'm gonna just go.

548
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: That's why it became a friendship philosophy. I don't want

549
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: to constantly be It takes up brain space, it takes

550
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,719
Speaker 1: up heart space to be like scoring and well you

551
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: know these different things.

552
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you talked about this in your book in the

553
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: beginning about how like we're the most connected, yes yet

554
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 2: the most lonely ever we've ever been. And I think

555
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 2: this has to play a role in that. And I

556
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 2: used to say this all the time when people would say,

557
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: like what do you specialize in, like what clientele is

558
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 2: your I would say loneliness Because no matter what it is,

559
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: no matter literally what it is, when people come in,

560
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 2: when we get down to the bottom of it. Most

561
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 2: of the time it's there's some kind of loneliness, whether

562
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: that's within our own relationship with ourselves, with God, with

563
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 2: other people, it's loneliness. And this has to be a

564
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 2: huge part of that where we are sacrificing so much

565
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: connection with other people for comfortable and at times it

566
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 2: is what we need. And that's the hard thing. And

567
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: I was joking with somebody, I was like, it's really

568
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 2: hard to be somebody a therapist specifically, who was hosting

569
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: a podcast and who is trying to help people and

570
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: find ways to get people to see the content so

571
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 2: they can be helped without sacrificing integrity. Because the stuff

572
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 2: that people grab onto and reshare and like and save

573
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: and buy, it's this really polarizing information. And I was

574
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 2: when I was with my client, I was like, you

575
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: know what, I really would love to write a book

576
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: called it depends, because that's the answer I need to

577
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: like trademark that, like, that's the answer to most questions

578
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: that people ask in my office. Should I do this?

579
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 2: Can I do this? Does this make me a bad friend?

580
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:55,959
Speaker 2: Does this make me a good person? Do you think this?

581
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 2: It depends? And our world is so like obsessed with

582
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: having a right or a wrong, do this or don't

583
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 2: do that, And when we have this self care conversation,

584
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: it's the same thing. It's don't do it, protect yourself,

585
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: protect your sleep, all of that, and it's like, okay,

586
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: but it depends sometimes we need to do that. And

587
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: that's why I like that the philosophies that you said,

588
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 2: like you made these up for yourself. These don't have

589
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 2: to be everybody's like tried and true, like you have

590
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 2: to live by these like it might depend, right.

591
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: It does depend. I do think as a podcaster and

592
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: as a writer, I am sharing my own self and

593
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: life and philosophies. I'm not a therapist like you. I'm

594
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,239
Speaker 1: not like educated in these things. I'm just sort of

595
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: sharing the things i'm learning, the things that are working

596
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: for me, the things that are not. And I have

597
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: just come to at this point, now fifteen years into

598
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: this or whatever, I have to trust that people are

599
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: going to hear them messages. They need to hear. Yeah,

600
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: And so if they glom onto one sentence that I said,

601
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: or one meme that I shared or whatever that I

602
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: didn't actually mean for that to be like the main point, Yeah,

603
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: but maybe that was something they needed to hear. And

604
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: so if if they heard this like protect your sleep

605
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: at all cost and they go overboard with that, which

606
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: has happened, maybe actually they were coming out of a

607
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: season where they are exhausted and they needed that permission

608
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: to protect their sleep at all costs. And so they

609
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: do that for six months and they feel better in

610
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: their body and in their spirit because they sort of

611
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: had had that light bulb moment of oh my gosh,

612
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: I can say no to things and I can be

613
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,479
Speaker 1: in bed at nine every night and this is going

614
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: to change how I feel. And then I'm glad that

615
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,959
Speaker 1: they feel that way, and that's amazing, but also that

616
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it has to be for a lifetime.

617
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, I'm glad you said that. I'm really

618
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: glad you said that, Like that is true that I

619
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 2: think something I need to work on, because I can

620
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 2: get really frustrated and I am working on this, and

621
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 2: everybody's listening to this podcast is like, yeah, we know, Kat,

622
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 2: you have this whole thing. I can go on a

623
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 2: tangent on this forever, but I need to give that

624
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: grace that when somebody's pulling that message that is being

625
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: pulled to them because they're looking at it through the

626
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: lens of their eyes and not my eyes and not

627
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 2: their neighbor's eyes. So thank you for that. I need

628
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 2: to get to this fourth philosophy because it is the

629
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 2: one that literally punched me in the gut. Real bad.

630
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: Okay, So the fourth philosophy is like every selfie. Now

631
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: I have to give credit where credit is due. This

632
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: comes from a poem by David Gate that opens the

633
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: book with Permission. I love him. I found him on

634
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: Instagram and he has a poem that contains this line,

635
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: like every selfie. And when I got to that line,

636
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: it punched me in the gut because I realized that

637
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: we have sort of, weirdly in our own minds become

638
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: like culture critics. We have been like I am going

639
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: to withhold my like r comment because this girl posts

640
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: too many selfies, or because this is like too sexy

641
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: for this moment what is she doing, or because we're

642
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: just like, oh my gosh, she's so insecure and needs

643
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: this affirmation. I'm not going to give it to her.

644
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: I don't want to subtly encourage her.

645
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, you know who.

646
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: That's poisoning. It's not poisoning her, it's poisoning you, yes,

647
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: like every selfie is just And I felt this in

648
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: my bones because my whole message and both of my books,

649
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: on my podcast, everything, my whole message is to share

650
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: your stuff. Like I really think that women, as we

651
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: get older, we share less and less of ourselves for

652
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: all kinds of valid and valid reasons. And so I'm

653
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: constant encouraging people to share. So when I noticed that,

654
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: I was like, weird when people shared, Like when I

655
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: was like, I mean, why did they share that? Like,

656
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 1: in my mind, I'm thinking that that is opposite how

657
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: I really want to walk in this world, Like I

658
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: truly deeply want to encourage people to share themselves, not

659
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: necessarily online, in life, So who am I to judge

660
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: how they're doing it. It doesn't mean that we can't

661
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: have thoughts and opinions like maybe we think this is

662
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: a little bit sexy for Instagram. I'm like, I don't know.

663
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: And also, liking everyone's selfies is the lowest possible bar

664
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: to encourage one another, the lowest, Like that's not texting back,

665
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,919
Speaker 1: that's not asking them to coffee. It is the lowest bar,

666
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: and we often can't even meet that and I was like,

667
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: this is it this. I'm taking the just like the

668
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: just go philosophy, I'm taking the pros and cons. I'm

669
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: not weighing this decision. I'm not going to think about it.

670
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: Do I really like this picture or not? No, I'm

671
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: just going to like every selfie that comes through my

672
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: feed of someone I love. It's not an influencer, it's

673
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: not a whatever, it's somebody what you care about.

674
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, I am gonna admit this that I am.

675
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 2: I am that person, like I am the one that's like, ugh,

676
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 2: like they just posted a picture like this yesterday or

677
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 2: here we go again, or I don't know I should

678
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 2: I was withhold. I was withholding that. So I actually

679
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 2: shared that little clip of the poem that was in

680
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 2: that part because I just was like, we have this

681
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 2: has to be somewhere like people, I have got to

682
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 2: share this and we have to talk about this. And

683
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: then I highlighted under it where you said it can

684
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 2: feel inauthentic when you don't really like what they are

685
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 2: putting out, but does it matter? And that I was

686
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 2: like does it? And that's where you go in and

687
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: talk about like when did we become these like culture

688
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 2: critics like, if there's a chance to cheer your friends on,

689
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 2: you need to take it and that heart because I

690
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 2: think that's what I always thought about. It is like

691
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 2: I don't want to like it if I don't really

692
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 2: like it, Or like if my friend asks if I

693
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: like their outfit and I don't, but their style is

694
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 2: not my style, so I wouldn't, Like why would I say? Now,

695
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 2: It's one thing if they're like does this match? And

696
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: they can't figure something out, they're asking for help versus

697
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 2: you know, when somebody just needs a little bit of

698
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 2: like hmm so they can walk out the door, Its like, no, yeah,

699
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,439
Speaker 2: you look cute? Like why would I not encourage them

700
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: if I could? Like, why would I not do that?

701
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 2: Because it doesn't really matter if our styles are the same.

702
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 2: It doesn't really matter if I would post that because

703
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 2: we're different people. So why would I not encourage my

704
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: friend to be my friend? Like be who she is?

705
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: And maybe they are posting because they have some insecurities

706
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: and they want this affirmation. Maybe it is slightly annoying

707
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 1: in that way, but who cares. If they need the affirmation,

708
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: give it to them. What are you going to do

709
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: teach them? A lesson that they shouldn't they should just

710
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: sit alone in their own insecurity over here. No, that

711
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: is not how I want to be in friendship. Whether

712
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: they need the affirmation or you just don't like the

713
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: way they act online or even in person. This doesn't

714
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: always have to go down online. Even though the directive

715
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: is like every selfie, it's it's bigger than that. It's

716
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: broader than that. I think that again, culturally, it became

717
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: like inauthentic to be like, oh my god, you look

718
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: so cute. Like that became like a joke and I

719
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: was like, no, that's not a joke. That is how

720
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: women often greet one another. That is our bonding ritual

721
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: is to be like you look great, you look so

722
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: pretty today. I love seeing you, great, new haircut, whatever.

723
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: That does not feel inauthentic to me. It's couched as

724
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: being phony sometimes, like we see like the joke of that.

725
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: It is not phony to me to say to a

726
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,439
Speaker 1: friend when I see them, like you look fantastic now.

727
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: I am not actually assessing them to be like, do

728
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: they literally look better than the last time when I

729
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: saw them? It does not matter. This is a way

730
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: for me to say I'm happy to see you.

731
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that that's a good point because there's

732
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 2: a difference in the like mean girl situation where you're like,

733
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I love your vest and then behind

734
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: their back they're like, oh my gosh, your vest was disgusting.

735
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 2: Like that's not what we're doing. You're not liking it,

736
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 2: and then gossiping about it. You're just liking it and

737
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: moving on and adding that point where you said that

738
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 2: liking a post is like the lowest form, Like it's

739
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: not like you're giving this huge speech and proclamation about them.

740
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 2: You're just like liking something that they wanted people to see. Yeah,

741
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 2: this just really threw me. Like I think that I

742
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 2: put the book down after and I was like we'll

743
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: get back to this later because I gotta sit with

744
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: this one. And I can tell you since then, I've

745
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: been like like happy. I'm like oh like that, like

746
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 2: that like that, And I think there is a there's

747
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 2: a difference in like liking this influencer's post or this

748
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 2: person that famous person you don't know or whatever, and

749
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,240
Speaker 2: like liking a person that you're really is in your circle.

750
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 2: Like there's a difference in.

751
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: That, And do you notice that it feels good.

752
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yeah, yes, because you know what doesn't

753
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 2: feel good. What doesn't feel good is when I see

754
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 2: my friend's stuff and I look at it, I read it,

755
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 2: and then I move and I'm like should I should?

756
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 2: I not? Should? I like? What if they that doesn't

757
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 2: feel good. That's the pros and cons list that you're

758
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 2: talking about.

759
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: I don't I think, I say in the book, I

760
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: no longer like hover my finger over the like button.

761
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: I know longer like think about it. I like the person,

762
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: so I like their stuff now, you know. Obviously the

763
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 1: caveats here is if they're posting something you like disagree with,

764
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: like an article or something. But when we're talking about

765
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: selfies their pictures, I'm not gonna not like their family

766
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: photo on vacation because I'm a little bit jealous. So

767
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: I'm withholding that like because I'm annoyed because they go

768
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: on three vacations a year and I don't go on any.

769
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 1: Yeah that is only hurting you. Yes, it has nothing

770
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: to do with them.

771
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Oh my gosh. Okay. So also what I did,

772
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 2: I did this. I wanted to ask you about this.

773
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 2: I you know how in the book you talked about

774
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: how did you post on Instagram like do you notice

775
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 2: if people like your stuff?

776
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 1: Yes?

777
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 2: So I was like, oh, I wanted to see what

778
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 2: people are going to say to me, so I posted

779
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 2: that it was very interesting to me, and I want

780
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 2: to hear what it was like for you, because it

781
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,240
Speaker 2: sounds like we got a little different feedback, I said.

782
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: I gave options of like do you notice? The thing

783
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 2: said like do you notice if people like or interact

784
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 2: with the stuff you're putting online? And I said yes, no,

785
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,439
Speaker 2: where it depends, And then a separate box said why

786
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,879
Speaker 2: or why not? And I think that it depends. Thing

787
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: kind of made the my scientific data a little different.

788
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 2: But I noticed a lot of people were like no

789
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: and was like I don't care, blah blah blah blah lah,

790
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 2: probably doesn't mean anything this that and whatever. And I

791
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 2: found I got like annoyed with that a little and

792
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 2: was like, why is this annoying to me when people

793
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 2: say they don't notice or they don't care, because I

794
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 2: know for a fact sometimes it's personal. So and maybe

795
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: these people have just like they're just really self assured. Great,

796
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 2: like I'm not like saying everybody's lying, And I think

797
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 2: that it depends. Thing was a big deal because it's true.

798
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 2: People were saying, like, I don't always see my friend's posts,

799
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 2: so I assume that my posts because of the algorithm,

800
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 2: doesn't always show up in their feed, so I can't

801
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: always take it personally. But when I know somebody saw something,

802
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 2: or if I sent somebody something directly, or I like,

803
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: sometimes people are not liking something because they do not

804
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 2: agree with your lifestyle or not even just like like

805
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 2: an article that's like a very dividing political belief or

806
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 2: something like that. It's like something about your life personally,

807
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 2: or something that somebody's excited about, and it's that whole

808
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 2: thing of they just want attention, Like I would never

809
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 2: post that about myself, and so you people withhold that

810
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 2: sometimes it is personal. So a question that I was

811
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: wondering is for these people that were like, no, no, no,

812
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 2: no No. Is your answer no because you want it

813
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: to be no? Or is your answer no because it

814
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 2: really is no because I want to not care. I

815
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 2: really do want to be like, oh, other people's opinions

816
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 2: don't matter, and like, I don't care what people think

817
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 2: about me. But sometimes I'm like, she saw that and

818
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 2: she didn't like it, and I will be the first

819
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 2: person who admit I don't. I'm not the kind of

820
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 2: person that looks at my story and looks everybody who's

821
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 2: looking at my story. But sometimes I'm like so and so,

822
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: I don't think like that thing that I put up,

823
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: And I'll go back and I'll look and they haven't

824
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: liked it. And I do take that personally because I

825
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 2: know for a fact that they saw it, So I

826
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 2: make up a story that of course they did it

827
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 2: on purpose. Anyway, all that to say, what was the

828
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: feedback that you got and was it similar or was

829
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 2: it different?

830
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 1: So this informed this whole section of the book. I

831
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: was asking questions and I host these kind of conversations

832
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: on Instagram. I've been doing this for years, and when

833
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: I was writing the book, I did friendship specific ones

834
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:11,720
Speaker 1: and I asked this question, do you notice when people

835
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: don't like or comment on your stuff? And I did

836
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: not give them yes, no, maybe, or it depends. I

837
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: just ask the question. And like I said, I host

838
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: conversations on Instagram at least once a month, if not more,

839
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 1: where people DM me and I share their dms. It's

840
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: kind of just one of the things that I do online.

841
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: Never in all of my years of doing this online,

842
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: have I gotten such a swift like immediate, like two

843
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: hundred dms right away, and also like wide range of answers.

844
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: So I did get people who were like, absolutely not,

845
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: you cannot pay attention to who likes your stuff. And

846
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 1: sometimes it was grounded in like real things, like you're saying,

847
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: like the algorithm is the worst. And sometimes it was

848
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: like I just refuse to think about it. Sometimes it

849
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: was like self righteous. And then there were a lot

850
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 1: of people who were like yes, and they had some

851
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: really sad story around it, like my sister in law

852
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 1: likes everyone in my family's posts but will not like mine,

853
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 1: and and I've noticed obviously. And then there was a

854
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: big middle that is meeting what you're saying, which is

855
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: mostly like I try not to notice or care because

856
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: I know the algorithm is wonky, and because I know

857
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,280
Speaker 1: people have online you know, different online etiquette or habits,

858
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,919
Speaker 1: but I do care, And that is to me who

859
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: I wanted to speak to the people who know, we

860
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: know there's a lot of factors here. We know sometimes

861
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: you're scrolling at the stoplight and that's going to keep

862
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: you from like liking our comedy. You know what I mean,

863
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: like people are multitasking or people or whatever, and it's

864
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: not always personal. We know that factually, we know that.

865
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: And also we know that it hurts our feelings when

866
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: one particular friend or family member or whatever consistently refuses

867
00:44:55,480 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: to engage with anything that you post, and and it

868
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: makes us worry, like is it personal that she hide me?

869
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: Did she secretly block me? Like? Does she secretly hate me?

870
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: Is she judging what I'm posting? We spin out in

871
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 1: our heads about it, and then it does affect our

872
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: real life relationship. And you know what it also affects

873
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: is how we post in the future. And this is

874
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: what got my wheel spinning on it is I'm like,

875
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: if you posted a selfie and nobody in your hundreds

876
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 1: of friendsless liked it, you're going to stop posting selfies,

877
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: Which goes to my whole argument. All of the work

878
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 1: I'm doing is leading to us why we get smaller

879
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: inside ourselves, why we stop sharing ourselves, why we become

880
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: less of our vibrant self. And one of these things

881
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: is because of the reaction or unreaction that we get

882
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: when we do share. This is a bigger conversation. It's

883
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,280
Speaker 1: not just about selfies, it's bigger.

884
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 2: And as you were saying that, I was thinking one

885
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 2: of the reasons I think I get so like wound

886
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 2: up about. I want people to have the permission to

887
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 2: admit if they notice or not, and if it bothers them,

888
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: because that's going to influence how I respond to my

889
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 2: friends if I know it hurts me if I start

890
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 2: to notice that. Okay, I try not to read into it,

891
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 2: but sometimes I really do. I don't want my friends

892
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 2: to do that, and I don't want my friends to

893
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: have to have to even think about that. So I'm

894
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: going to, like the post, I'm just gonna do it.

895
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: So that's I think one of the reasons I'm like, yeah,

896
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 2: know that that can be a painful thing because if

897
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 2: you say it doesn't matter, then you're not going to

898
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 2: do anything differently. But if we acknowledge that sometimes it does,

899
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 2: then we can change our behavior and then we can

900
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 2: actually have all that connection that you're talking about.

901
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: And that's why it's a core friendship philosophy. I have

902
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: five friendship philosophies. Of all the ways that we think

903
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,919
Speaker 1: and are in friendship, these five are the most I'm

904
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 1: holding deer right now, and this is number four, because

905
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,439
Speaker 1: I do think it matters that much, even with people

906
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 1: who pretend like it doesn't matter, like you're saying, I'm

907
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 1: sure people listening to this are going to come out

908
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 1: with like, well, I am never online, so this doesn't

909
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 1: apply to me or what, And I'm like, okay, I think,

910
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: but that's what I mean about. It's bigger than the

911
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: actual selfies, or it's bigger than the people that you

912
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 1: want to roll your eyes at. I mean, we all

913
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: have feelings. I'm not trying to take away your opinions

914
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: by telling you to like every selfie, but if you

915
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: do for one week like you said you were doing,

916
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: if you just try, I'm just gonna like all my

917
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: friend's stuff for one week and see how it feels

918
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 1: in your body and spirit, and see if you notice

919
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,879
Speaker 1: a difference when you open the app to like your

920
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: generosity of liking and how cute and your darling and

921
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,720
Speaker 1: I love this and all of that. It's not inauthentic.

922
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: See if it feels different to you to be that

923
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: way online than to just be like a troll.

924
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm controlling my friends and it does, like that's

925
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 2: so crazy, Like I'm less annoyed. Yeah, because I'm not

926
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 2: sitting there being like, let me judge what deserves my

927
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 2: heart and what doesn't.

928
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll enjoy social media more.

929
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh dear God. Okay, all right, so I want

930
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 2: to definitely finish these philosophies. So can you tell us

931
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 2: the fifth one?

932
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: The fifth one is probably the most controversial, but I

933
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: am really passionate about this. Your spouse is not your

934
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: best friend. And I know that we have become a

935
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: culture who marries their best friend. I know that that

936
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: is the utmost romantic thing we could possibly say or do.

937
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: But if you put all of those eggs in that

938
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 1: one relationship basket, it will leave you a little bit wanting. Probably,

939
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: you will get a little bit lonely. You will be disappointed.

940
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: You will feel that not all of your the different

941
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: cups and buckets that we have and our heart are

942
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:06,399
Speaker 1: filled because one person cannot fulfill all the things. Now,

943
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 1: I've been married for fifteen years. My husband is amazing.

944
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: He is my partner, he is my co parent, he

945
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: is my lover. He's my first call with any news

946
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: good or bad. Like he is the most important person

947
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,240
Speaker 1: in my life. But I don't call him my best friend.

948
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: I have best friends girlfriends. I have a longtime guy

949
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: from the third grade that's one of my best friends. Like,

950
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: I have best friends that totally fill different chambers of

951
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: my life, and they deserve those titles. Not Jeff my husband.

952
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 1: He gets the husband title, He gets the most important

953
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: person title. But I want to go laugh with my

954
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: friends in a different way. I communicate with them differently.

955
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: I found that when I tried to make him my

956
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 1: best friend early in our marriage, which now feels like

957
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: a long time ago, because it was when I tried

958
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: to make him my best friend. You know what this was.

959
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: This was the epitome of my lonely years. And I

960
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,839
Speaker 1: was like, no, like, I have to have girlfriends. I

961
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: have to have girls' nights out, weekend girls' trips. I

962
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: have to fill that side of my personality in my heart.

963
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: I have to admit that I don't get that from him,

964
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 1: and I don't want to force him to try and

965
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: fit into that box. Like I can't try to make

966
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 1: him connect in the way that I need to connect

967
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: with girls. It's just different. And it freed up my

968
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,760
Speaker 1: marriage when I stop trying to make him my best friend,

969
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: when I could be like, he's my partner he's the best,

970
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,240
Speaker 1: but I have best friends. Yes, they're different.

971
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you probably feel very similar about that

972
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 2: that I feel with my partners, my other half kind

973
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 2: of thing of I'm like, when you do that, you

974
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 2: are then relying on this person to fill all of

975
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 2: these things and do all these things that I don't

976
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 2: know that they have the ability to do. And you

977
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 2: can be really close to somebody, you can be the

978
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 2: closest to somebody that you can ever humanly imagine, and

979
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 2: them not be the other half of your soul. And

980
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 2: so I like that because what you're doing here is

981
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 2: you're giving people permission. They don't have to agree with

982
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 2: your this philosophy that you've come up with, but you're

983
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,919
Speaker 2: actually giving people permission to say, I need a little

984
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 2: bit more. And sometimes the world says this person should

985
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,919
Speaker 2: complete you, and they're supposed to do everything, and they're

986
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 2: supposed to be able to laugh like this and do

987
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 2: this and have these conversations and da da da da

988
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 2: da da. But sometimes that's just not the truth. And

989
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 2: that you can have like the most perfect partner that

990
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 2: you can imagine if perfect existed, and them not fill

991
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,479
Speaker 2: all and check all those boxes. So you're saying like, hey,

992
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 2: you don't have to sit there and say, well, my

993
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: husband's my best friend, so I'm not going to go

994
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 2: out and to go to that party and this and

995
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 2: that because he's all I need. Yeah, it's not it's

996
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 2: literally not no.

997
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: And also it doesn't do justice to sort of his

998
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: personality or what his strengths are. Yeah, to try to

999
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: make him in the image of what I need a

1000
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: best friend to be like with my best friends, and

1001
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: part of this is personality preference of what we need

1002
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: in different areas of our life. But like you know,

1003
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: with my best girlfriends, we like dissect all the minutia

1004
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 1: of whatever it is we're dissecting, you know what I mean,

1005
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: Like we will talk for three hours about something. Okay,

1006
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: Well my husband that's not his gig. Like, he's not

1007
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 1: going to do that. And when I went through a

1008
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 1: time period of I'm like, why won't you do that

1009
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: connecting ritual with me? That's how I connect. It isn't

1010
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 1: fair to make him do that when he's like, well,

1011
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 1: that's not how I connect. Well, why do we have

1012
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: to default to the way that I need to connect.

1013
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to try and find that particular connection in

1014
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 1: the other amazing friends I have in my life and

1015
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 1: then let the strength of my bond with my husband

1016
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: be what it is, which is something else. And I

1017
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: think this can be true if you're not partnered. This

1018
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: can be true with other things. You know, if your

1019
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: sister is your best friend, but she's your sister, I

1020
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: mean what an amazing title is. She doesn't have to

1021
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 1: be your sister and your best friend. Or when people say,

1022
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: like my mom is my best friend or whatever, my

1023
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 1: child is my best friend, that has its own problematic issues,

1024
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: like maybe this is your life and maybe this particular

1025
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 1: philosophy doesn't resonate with you because you have found the

1026
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: complete package in one other person, and so if it

1027
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: doesn't work for you, then just lose this philosophy altogether.

1028
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,720
Speaker 1: But talking about it, I do want to like point

1029
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 1: out to people, if you're not completely fulfilled in this

1030
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,279
Speaker 1: way in your marriage, it doesn't mean there's something wrong

1031
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: with your marriage.

1032
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, and that I think that's the permission

1033
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 2: that like, this doesn't mean I did it wrong. Yes,

1034
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 2: So kind of to wrap this up, because you know

1035
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 2: I have I'm trying to count, but like eight other

1036
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 2: things I wanted to ask, that's not gonna happen today.

1037
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:52,919
Speaker 2: So that's your little just for anybody listening who thought

1038
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: that this part was interesting or fascinating. This is like

1039
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,280
Speaker 2: the beginning of the book, like the first Well.

1040
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: Tell me what else on that list? Like you really

1041
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:01,360
Speaker 1: want to get.

1042
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 2: To Well, I wanted to get to all the archetypes,

1043
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 2: but I don't know what I was thinking. But then

1044
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 2: I also had things down here that I wanted to

1045
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: talk that I thought were really interesting. How you talk

1046
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 2: about towards I think this is all towards the end,

1047
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 2: but like when you have issues with always being the

1048
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:17,919
Speaker 2: in shared of a friendship, like what do you do?

1049
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 2: And if you want to share something with somebody but

1050
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 2: don't want to be too much, what do you do?

1051
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 2: And also just tips and tricks and your advice on

1052
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 2: how to make friends as an adult. We'd kind of

1053
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:30,399
Speaker 2: talked about that because those are things that I hear

1054
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 2: over and over with clients, and also friendship endings like

1055
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 2: which you talk about that, and I just I liked

1056
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 2: the empty chair part of your archetypes too. So those

1057
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:43,839
Speaker 2: are like seven other podcasts.

1058
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 1: There's a lot in this book. It's not it's actually

1059
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 1: not that long of a book. It's in terms of pages.

1060
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of material.

1061
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 2: Yes, no, there really is. They're really and good materials.

1062
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 2: So anybody listening who's like this philosophy is fascinating. There

1063
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 2: is so much more stuff in there, and it's not

1064
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:05,399
Speaker 2: You're not going to be sitting there reading the book

1065
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 2: for four months. You'll you can have it done in

1066
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 2: a day, two days, depending on how you read, depending

1067
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 2: on if you have to set it down and go

1068
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 2: reevaluate your whole philosophy, on how you engage on social media.

1069
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,399
Speaker 2: But to kind of wrap this part up, what would

1070
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 2: you say to somebody who's listening to these philosophies as like, oh,

1071
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 2: like I like that idea of having friendship philosophies, Like

1072
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 2: what would you say to somebody who's who's like, I

1073
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 2: want to keep some of these that you that they've heard,

1074
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,359
Speaker 2: and like, how do I add or how did you?

1075
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 2: How do I come up with these? And once I

1076
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 2: come up with them, how do I commit to them

1077
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 2: for my whole life?

1078
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: Well, I'll answer that first part. First, No, don't go

1079
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 1: into any of this reading about the life Council philosophies.

1080
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 1: Never should it be commit to for the rest of

1081
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 1: your life, Like let yourself change. That's one of my

1082
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: huge mantras that I always preach. You are not lost

1083
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 1: and let your self change. Those are two really important

1084
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: things that we should always sort of hold dear. It

1085
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 1: doesn't make you flaky. Hopefully don't change like week to week,

1086
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: but let yourself evolve and grow. And you know all

1087
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 1: of those things. So as you're thinking about what part

1088
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 1: of these philosophies resonate with you or what your own

1089
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,080
Speaker 1: might be, know that it's not. This is not a

1090
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 1: lifetime commitment. Hopefully things will change for you in different

1091
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:27,919
Speaker 1: eras of your life. But the other thing about finding

1092
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 1: your own friendship philosophies, because these are mine that I

1093
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 1: would love for you to adopt, but also to find

1094
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: your own is my favorite practice of all time, which

1095
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: is just paying attention, noticing and mindfulness. It is not

1096
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 1: like the biggest chore of your life to just start noticing.

1097
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 1: Next time you're out with your friends, next time you're

1098
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,760
Speaker 1: texting with your friends, next time you're scrolling your phone,

1099
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 1: noticing what your thoughts are. And this is like the

1100
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 1: basis of mindfulness of being like, huh, I don't like

1101
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: the way she acts in friendship. I don't like the

1102
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 1: way she acts, why don't I like it? And sort

1103
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: of asking yourself, Okay, well it's because she always flakes

1104
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,319
Speaker 1: last minute, she always cancels plans. So maybe one of

1105
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: my friendship philosophies is don't cancel, like unless there's an

1106
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: emergency notice for yourself, like, oh, I feel really alive

1107
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: when I'm with this person. Why what is it about

1108
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: her that makes me feel alive? Do we have a

1109
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: spiritual connection? Is she extra funny? Do I feel like

1110
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: I can trust her? Whatever? If you're investigating yourself, why

1111
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 1: then maybe you might think, you know, one of my

1112
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: friendship philosophies is that I seek out people who are

1113
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 1: different than me. If you feel like that's lighting you

1114
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 1: up after this interaction, just taking if you're going to

1115
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 1: take a week to notice what it feels like to

1116
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: like every selfie in your feed, take like maybe a

1117
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 1: month to just notice. You don't have to carve out

1118
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: philosophies and write them down and pose them, but just

1119
00:57:56,440 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 1: noticing what habits or people or dynamics or interactions really

1120
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: work for you and why, because then you can say

1121
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: I want more of that. So let's say that you

1122
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: go against your better judgment, you go to the birthday

1123
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 1: party even though you're supposed to be self caring, and

1124
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 1: then you go and you come home and you're like,

1125
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: I'm so glad I went. Then you might be like, okay, well,

1126
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 1: maybe I always go to birthdays. Maybe you don't want

1127
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 1: to commit to all of the just go, but you're like,

1128
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: I am really going. I really love celebrating friends, and

1129
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: so this is going to be something I'm going to

1130
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 1: make a real effort towards. Or maybe you come home

1131
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: from that night and you're like, I shouldn't have gone.

1132
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: I'm exhausted, those people bug me, you know whatever, And

1133
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 1: then you can say, why didn't I like that? If

1134
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: your answer is I don't feel good when I leave

1135
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 1: that group of people, you have to notice that you

1136
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 1: have to pay attention to it instead of being like,

1137
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: well now i'm this, but this is my group of friends.

1138
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:05,919
Speaker 1: Well okay, well but they don't make you feel good.

1139
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 2: Well I think that's important because I could say I

1140
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 2: didn't like that, and I could see I shouldn't go

1141
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 2: to things if I'm tired. But really, it's no that

1142
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 2: group of people makes me feel like a lower version

1143
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 2: of myself. Yes, it's not that you shouldn't have gone

1144
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 2: that those are probably not your people.

1145
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: Or maybe you had too many drinks and you came

1146
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 1: home and you were like, I should have only had

1147
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 1: one drink or none because I feel gross. I said

1148
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 1: something I didn't mean to, you know whatever, and so

1149
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 1: something that's just about you. It has nothing to do

1150
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: with the group of people. It has nothing to do

1151
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 1: with the birthday it was. You shouldn't drink anymore. Yeah,

1152
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 1: for now, you know, like that's going to be your

1153
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 1: new friendship philosophy because it's affecting your relationships. That's what

1154
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: makes it a friendship philosophy versus like a life change

1155
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: necessarily of like, gosh, I don't love myself when I

1156
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 1: drink because I damage my relationships. I say stupid stuff.

1157
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 1: I'm not my best self. So my new philosophy for

1158
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 1: right now is to not drink at social gatherings whatever.

1159
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: So then it's not about the friends or the people.

1160
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 1: It's about your own behavior, which is what a lot

1161
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: of these philosophies are. About your own behavior, right like

1162
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 1: what makes you feel good and what doesn't. It's not

1163
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 1: always about like controlling the other people. It's certainly not

1164
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 1: about like deeming other people toxic. That drives me nuts

1165
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: that we deem people we don't like as toxic. You

1166
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: can just be like, yeah, they're just not my vibe.

1167
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 2: Yeah I don't like them. That I don't have to

1168
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 2: demonize them.

1169
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I don't have to like block them and

1170
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:35,959
Speaker 1: cut them out of my life. So that's a thing.

1171
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: Just because they're i don't know, snarky or something, does

1172
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 1: that make them a toxic human. So it's just a

1173
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: lot of noticing, which is this is sounds simple, almost

1174
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 1: too simple, but we go through a lot of life

1175
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 1: not really examining what's actually going on because this has

1176
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 1: been our friendship group for a long time, because this

1177
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: is our habit, because it's just the way we do it.

1178
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: And sometimes you have to be like, well, I don't

1179
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 1: know that this is working for me. I have a

1180
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: million friends and still feel lonely. Something here is not clicking.

1181
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 1: I have to pay attention to what that is, or

1182
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 1: you know, the opposite, like I don't have very many friends,

1183
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: I don't know very many people. What part of that

1184
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 1: is on me?

1185
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 2: Yeah? Uh, okay, Well I have so many conversations for

1186
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 2: you about your life, about all this stuff about friendship

1187
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 2: and if anybody's listening and they're like, oh, well, I

1188
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 2: wanted to get to those other things that you mentioned.

1189
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 1: You can go to the lifecouncilbook dot com and it

1190
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 1: has more about the book. I would love it if

1191
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: people would buy it and that I really hope that

1192
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:38,439
Speaker 1: it starts conversations in their own friendship groups. Like that's

1193
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 1: how I dream for this book. That they would read

1194
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 1: this book and then they would take it to their

1195
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 1: friends and be like, Hey, who are we on one

1196
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: another's life council? Or Hey, do you think maybe our

1197
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: friendship group could use a little inspiration. I don't know,

1198
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: like I really want it to spark those kind of conversations.

1199
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 2: Uh yeah. And I will say, like you talk about

1200
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 2: this in the book, but the way you've developed the

1201
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 2: life council, the architect type, like the different kinds of friends,

1202
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 2: is really nice because it helps and it sounds like

1203
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 2: this is the point, but it really has helped me

1204
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 2: look at so that this friend is lacking something. It's

1205
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,919
Speaker 2: that this I'm just not looking at what this friend

1206
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 2: offers me. And if I look at this council of God,

1207
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 2: I can say, oh my gosh, this look what you

1208
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 2: do so well, look what I appreciate you so much

1209
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 2: for this versus you don't do all the things my

1210
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 2: husband's my best friend.

1211
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's yeah, it's very much that. Like you can

1212
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 1: have a friend that seems like it's on the shallow

1213
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 1: side because they're very fun and you do fun things,

1214
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: but like she never really wants to have a heart

1215
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 1: to heart and so you think, well, this, I'm not

1216
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 1: that close to this person. That's not true. She is

1217
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 1: providing fun in your life. What a benefit. So accepting

1218
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: that she's never gonna have a heart to heart with you, like,

1219
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: that's just that's not the nature of that friendship. You're

1220
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,440
Speaker 1: gonna have a heart to heart with Sally over here,

1221
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 1: who doesn't like to go out very often. So you

1222
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: have a fun friend and you a deep friend, and

1223
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 1: both of those things like brings so much to your life,

1224
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 1: and you bring something to their life. It's giving proofal

1225
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 1: permission to be who they are and lean into their

1226
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 1: strengths because you want people to do that to you.

1227
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 2: Also, well it's allowed and well this is an experiment,

1228
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 2: I guess because it hasn't been that long that I've

1229
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 2: been thinking about this, But in my own life, I've

1230
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 2: recently been like I feel like I'm stretched too thin

1231
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 2: because I'm always I've always been somebody that has had

1232
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 2: a lot of friends in different circles and can be

1233
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 2: friends a lot of different kinds of people. But I

1234
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 2: in my head was like before previously in my life,

1235
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 2: I have to be the same kind of friend to everybody,

1236
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 2: like I have to offer the same kind of friendship

1237
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 2: because that's who I am to every single person I'm

1238
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 2: friends with. But then I got to a point that

1239
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 2: I was like, well, I guess I have to cut

1240
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 2: all these friends out of my life because I can't

1241
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 2: do that, and I feel exhausted and I feel like

1242
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 2: I'm being a bad friend because I can't keep up.

1243
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 2: And this was a nice confirmation that It's like, sometimes

1244
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 2: I get to be the deep part to heart friend.

1245
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 2: Sometimes I get to do that, and sometimes I get

1246
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 2: to be somebody's fun friend who will laugh and talk

1247
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: about pop culture, gossip and this kind of stuff and

1248
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 2: go and try these new restaurants and I don't have

1249
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 2: to ask you about every single part of your life

1250
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 2: and remember every single detail. And it has been a

1251
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 2: game changer.

1252
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 1: Do you hear that that was your friendship philosophy before

1253
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:29,840
Speaker 1: it changed your friendship philosophy was I have to be

1254
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 1: the same type of friend to everyone, and there's nothing

1255
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 1: wrong with that. You obviously valued like fairness, you valued equality.

1256
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 1: You didn't want one person to, you know, feel outranked

1257
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 1: by the other or whatever. That was a friendship philosophy

1258
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 1: that was rooted in goodness. Like I can tell why

1259
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 1: you're talking about it. I want to be consistent. It's

1260
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 1: part of my identity to be the same type of

1261
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 1: friend to everyone. So that was a friendship philosophy that

1262
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 1: you already had. But now you're like, yeah, that doesn't

1263
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: work for me anymore.

1264
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh okay, Well, thank you so much for this conversation.

1265
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for this book. I'm just gonna

1266
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 2: carry it around with me every where I go. I've

1267
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 2: already mentioned it to some of my clients. I'm like,

1268
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 2: I'm reading this book and I think you should read it.

1269
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 1: Oh good, Thank you so much for that. That means

1270
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 1: a lot to me.

1271
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I say that honestly. I wouldn't be saying that.

1272
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 2: I would find a different way to skirt around that,

1273
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 2: so I really mean it. We know where we can

1274
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 2: find your book. What about your podcast and Instagram? All that?

1275
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 2: Can you throw that out.

1276
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 1: You can find everything at Laura tremain dot com. My

1277
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 1: podcast is called ten Things to Tell You. It is weekly,

1278
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 1: and then my favorite place to be and where I

1279
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 1: host a lot of these conversations is on Instagram where

1280
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 1: I am Laara dot Tremain.

1281
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 2: Okay, beautiful, we'll put all that in the show notes

1282
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 2: for you guys listening, so you can just click on

1283
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Speaker 2: it if you are in a hurry and don't have

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Speaker 2: a pen and a paper or I guess you would

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Speaker 2: be writing that down on your phone. You would have

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Speaker 2: been like her Instagram is okay anyway, be on the

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Speaker 2: show notes. So thank you, Thank you, boot Tick too,