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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the White Tail Woods presented by first Light, creating proven

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Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First

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Speaker 1: Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week in

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Speaker 2: the show, Tony and I are discussing the top twelve

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Speaker 2: books that every hunter and angler should read. These are

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Speaker 2: books that will make you a better hunter and angler,

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Speaker 2: books that will make you think, and books that, through

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Speaker 2: the page, will take you on some of the wildest adventures.

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Speaker 2: Imagine them all right, Welcome back to the Wired to

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Speaker 2: Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light in their

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Speaker 2: Camera for Conservation initiative, and today we'll hear my buddy

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Speaker 2: Tony for a different kind of post. Today. We are

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Speaker 2: not going to be telling you about how to kill

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Speaker 2: a deer. We're not going to be telling you about

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Speaker 2: how to do timber stand improvement or hang a tree stand,

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Speaker 2: or be a better conservationist or anything like that. We're

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Speaker 2: going to talk to you about something that requires very

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Speaker 2: little physical work. Tony. It's about as easy as it comes.

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Speaker 2: You can just kind of take your fingers and pull

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Speaker 2: a page and pull it to the next one and

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Speaker 2: there it is. That's all the work you gotta do.

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Speaker 2: We're flipping pages today talking books. This is something that

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Speaker 2: I do sometimes on social media. I've written articles about this,

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Speaker 2: but we've only we've done few podcasts, a few where

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Speaker 2: we've dabbled in talking about books. But I thought today

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Speaker 2: the idea would be to talk through the top books

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Speaker 2: that we think that every hunter and anglers should read.

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Speaker 2: And this is this is on my mind right now,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's on your mind too, because I've

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Speaker 2: been getting ready for some trips and I know you're

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Speaker 2: getting ready for a trip. And one of the most

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Speaker 2: important things for me when I'm heading out on a

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Speaker 2: you know, a week long trip anywhere hunting or fishing

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Speaker 2: or camping or anything, I spend in an ornate amount

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Speaker 2: of time picking what books on to bring. My wife

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Speaker 2: thinks I'm crazy, Like she gets mad at me because

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Speaker 2: I end up I can't ever just bring one because

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Speaker 2: like the worst thing is to bring one book and

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Speaker 2: then finish it and then not have anything else to read, right,

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Speaker 2: So I end up bringing like two three. I've been

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Speaker 2: known to bring four books on a week long vacation before,

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Speaker 2: so I don't know, I might have a problem, but

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Speaker 2: that's that's kind of my idea, Tony, is to kind

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Speaker 2: of talk through some of our top book recommendations, since

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Speaker 2: we need some book recommendations leading into our trips.

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Speaker 3: Right right, I'm good with it.

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Speaker 2: But you're heading, you're heading where soon?

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Speaker 4: I am flying down to Florida hearing about eight hours

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Speaker 4: and i'll be tomorrow morning. I'll be fishing the salt

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Speaker 4: and I cannot freaking wait.

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Speaker 2: Ah. Yeah, I'm very jealousy I have from our recording today.

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Speaker 2: I have nine days until I leave for Florida. So

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Speaker 2: we're gonna be crossing paths. We're gonna be almost intersecting

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Speaker 2: while we're.

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Speaker 3: Getting away from the plane windows.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so what all, what all do you have on

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Speaker 2: the itinerary? You said, like tomorrow's offshore, like deep water fishing.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 4: So almost every time I've ever been down well, I

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Speaker 4: shouldn't say every time I've ever been down there, the

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Speaker 4: weather has not allowed to go out on the big water,

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Speaker 4: and so we've fished inshore, you know, fish the lagoons,

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Speaker 4: the rivers, whatever, And we just have this like unbelievably

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Speaker 4: consistent forecast and so we're heading out to catch you know,

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Speaker 4: big spinner sharks and all kinds of stuff tomorrow and

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Speaker 4: that's gonna be really fun. And then after that we'll

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Speaker 4: have a canoe to go paddle around in the mangroves

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Speaker 4: and try to target snook and trout and you know, whatever,

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Speaker 4: drum whatever else we.

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Speaker 3: Can find, and it's gonna be really fun.

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Speaker 2: Do you have any advice for me on some of

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Speaker 2: that inland kind of stuff, because because we're gonna be

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Speaker 2: down in nine days and we're gonna be doing some

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Speaker 2: like fishing in the flats, like for tarpin, bone fish,

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Speaker 2: that kind of thing with people who really know what

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Speaker 2: they're doing. But we're also going to be doing a

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Speaker 2: little bit of stuff in the Everglades, and we're gonna

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Speaker 2: be checking out some of these like canal systems and

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Speaker 2: these backwaters, and I'm thinking we might be able to

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Speaker 2: catch a bunch of random stuff in there on a

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Speaker 2: fly rod. I even saw someone catching peacock bass in

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Speaker 2: one of the spots that I know we're gonna be

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Speaker 2: exploring anything that you've experienced doing some of that, because

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Speaker 2: I know you've you've got a little more experience than

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Speaker 2: me on that side. Of things.

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Speaker 4: Uh man, there's there's two things. That all those fish

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Speaker 4: eat live shrimp. So anything anything that you have that

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Speaker 4: looks like a shrimp, uh, it's gonna work well. And

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Speaker 4: then small minnows. I mean it's crazy down there. We

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Speaker 4: don't we're not we're not fly fishing on this trip.

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Speaker 4: Like we'll go, we'll go throw little two inch swim

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Speaker 4: baits that would look like a white streamer, you know,

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Speaker 4: I mean like just a minnow pattern and you catch everything,

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Speaker 4: or you know, if you we if we go buy

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Speaker 4: a couple dozen live shrimp and throw them around, everything

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Speaker 4: eats it. You know, it's like it's just like a

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Speaker 4: universal food source down there. So anything that looks like

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Speaker 4: that is gonna get chomped on. And I have you know,

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Speaker 4: if you're around I'm not exactly sure where you're gonna be.

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Speaker 4: But the other thing that if you're around any of

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Speaker 4: the trout, any you know, jack some of that stuff,

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Speaker 4: anything with like a streamer with like gold tinsel, something

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Speaker 4: that looks you know, gold, and it seems to work

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Speaker 4: really well. Okay, but I just I go a little

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Speaker 4: and just try to match you know, what everything's eating.

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Speaker 3: You'll catch all kinds of stuff.

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Speaker 2: That's the thing I'm excited about, maybe the most is

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Speaker 2: just like the random diversity of stuff you could get

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Speaker 2: into yep, like Castle Line and who knows what's going

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Speaker 2: to be down there. So yeah, I mean that's pumped.

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Speaker 2: That's what makes it fun. I mean that is I

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Speaker 2: mean it probably sounds so.

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Speaker 4: Stupid, but that mystery of like not knowing that environment

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Speaker 4: very well and not knowing what you're going to catch

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Speaker 4: and like learning as you go. Sometimes we forget that

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Speaker 4: stuff when you're really used to, you know, hunting in

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Speaker 4: the back forty or hunting the farm you grew up on.

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Speaker 4: Is like, you know, the deer come out here, they

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Speaker 4: walk through here, the turkey's strutt in this field. It's

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Speaker 4: kind of like you you know, it's there's comfort in that,

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Speaker 4: but it's also there's not a lot of mystery. And man,

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Speaker 4: you know, when you live in the you know, close

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Speaker 4: to Canada and then you get to spend some time

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Speaker 4: in the salt, you you discover some cool stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Nice change of pace, that's for sure. Uh So do

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Speaker 2: you have a book picked out for the trip yet?

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Speaker 3: So? I'm not sure yet.

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Speaker 4: I I was this is you know that experiment they

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Speaker 4: do with kids where they're like it's a psych logical

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Speaker 4: experiment where they're like, hey, you can.

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Speaker 3: Have one marshmallow. Now I know this one or two

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Speaker 3: in an hour.

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Speaker 4: I was trying to save Cormack McCarthy's last books, Tela Maris,

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Speaker 4: just because it's it's a short book. I knew it

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Speaker 4: wouldn't take very long. It's a good vacation book. But

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Speaker 4: I finished it last night, and so because I started

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Speaker 4: to get into it and I just really liked it,

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Speaker 4: and so now I'm not sure. Sometimes and we'll talk

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Speaker 4: about this on my list, but sometimes on trips like this,

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Speaker 4: I like to go back to like an old favorite,

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Speaker 4: Like I might bring Blood Meridian, or I might bring

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Speaker 4: some book that I just know I love, And because

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Speaker 4: that's what I do sometimes in the spring, when I'm

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Speaker 4: turkey hunting, if I'm bow hunting specifically and sitting in

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Speaker 4: a blind all day, sometimes I just go run through

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Speaker 4: a few of my old favorites because it's just like

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Speaker 4: a kind of like a comfort thing.

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Speaker 2: You know, do you like to read books about something

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Speaker 2: in season when you're doing the thing. So I guess

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Speaker 2: what I'm getting is like, are you reading books about

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Speaker 2: hunting during hunting season where you're out there, or do

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Speaker 2: you read about fishing when it's fishing season or is

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Speaker 2: it like the opposite, like during the winter, you're reading

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Speaker 2: about fishing because you want to go fishing, you know.

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Speaker 3: I just know I don't.

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Speaker 4: I don't structure it season seasonally, like I don't really

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Speaker 4: care about that, and I honestly don't. You know, most

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Speaker 4: people will get this from my list, but I don't,

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Speaker 4: like if it's September October, I'm not seeking out hunting books,

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Speaker 4: you know. And honestly, the stuff that I like so

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Speaker 4: much of it is kind of adventure stuff from the

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Speaker 4: past or something, you know, Like I really love a

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Speaker 4: lot of the gun writer books from Africa back in

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Speaker 4: the day, even though it's like just to look into

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Speaker 4: like this machismo functioning alcoholism.

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Speaker 3: Fill up your trophy room. But I just I love.

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Speaker 4: That the idea of back then of those guys would

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Speaker 4: be like, you know, we're we're going from New York

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Speaker 4: or wherever they live to some part of Africa and

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Speaker 4: they're going to go on like a three months afar,

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Speaker 4: you know, And like I just at a time when

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Speaker 4: it was so much more wild and so no, I

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Speaker 4: don't I just I like, I like books that just

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Speaker 4: they bring you somewhere and there's like a like a

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Speaker 4: real feel for the place.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't have to like jive with my life at all.

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Speaker 4: I kind of like it when it doesn't, you know,

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Speaker 4: although there's I did put one author on my list

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Speaker 4: that does right about a lot of stuff that's pretty

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Speaker 4: familiar to me and probably you two, I would.

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Speaker 2: Guess, hmm, Yeah. I have a couple of different things

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Speaker 2: when I when I'm reading books that are related to

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Speaker 2: hunting fishing. Number One, I do find like there's certain

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Speaker 2: times of the year when I'm just like craving the thing.

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Speaker 2: I kind of look at books are like my TV.

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Speaker 2: Like I don't I don't watch a whole TV, but

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Speaker 2: I like flip the station a lot based on what

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: Give me an example of that, Like, what's the time

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Speaker 4: where you're like, I gotta seek out this kind of book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So like in the middle of the winter, when

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Speaker 2: I'm you know, you're stuck in it's kind of just

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Speaker 2: that dead of the night kind of short days you're

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Speaker 2: socked in, and that's when I'm definitely reaching for a book.

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Speaker 2: That's going to take me on a fishing adventure or

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Speaker 2: like you know, an Alaskan expedition or something just like that.

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Speaker 2: When I'm craving adventure because I've been stuck not doing it,

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Speaker 2: That's when I reach for those books that take me

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Speaker 2: far away to do the thing I want to do

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Speaker 2: while maybe in the summer, when I'm out doing those

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Speaker 2: kinds of things already. That is more often when I'm

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Speaker 2: picking up a book that's going to make me think

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Speaker 2: maybe a little bit more, like a slightly more philosophical

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Speaker 2: book or a book that's maybe more about conservation or

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Speaker 2: hunting ethics or something like that, like a little bit

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Speaker 2: more of that kind of thing, because I don't need

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Speaker 2: to scratch the itch of adventure or fishing because I'm

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Speaker 2: doing it. You know. Now, in like July or August,

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Speaker 2: I might pick up some kind of hunting material again

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Speaker 2: because now I'm like really amped up and I want

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Speaker 2: to be in the woods but I can't yet. So

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Speaker 2: like August is when I'll buy North American Whitetail Magazine

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Speaker 2: again or something like that, you know, where it's just

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Speaker 2: like I just need to see some of this stuff

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Speaker 2: I need to read, like the cheesy, how you kill

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Speaker 2: the big Buck story just because I so badly want

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Speaker 2: to be out there. So that's how a lot of

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Speaker 2: my reading revolves. Is like I'll have like a craving

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Speaker 2: and I have to scratch that itch with a book,

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Speaker 2: and I am not I do I'm not in a

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Speaker 2: What am I trying to say here? I used to

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Speaker 2: feel like I'd start a book and I had to

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Speaker 2: finish that book before I could touch anything else. I

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Speaker 2: used to do that, but now I look at books

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Speaker 2: as like, like I said, like a TV. And so

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Speaker 2: any given night, even in the same night, I might

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Speaker 2: change the channel a couple of times, I'll just go by.

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Speaker 2: Feel like, if I feel like digging into something heavy,

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Speaker 2: then hey, I'll pick up that one book I was reading.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of heavy. But then, you know what, at

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Speaker 2: the end of the night, maybe I just want to

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Speaker 2: go to sleep thinking about some adventure or whatever, and

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Speaker 2: so I'll read for the last half hour, just some

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Speaker 2: adventure story or a fishing book or whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: And I don't feel guilty about that anymore. I don't

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Speaker 2: finish as many books because of that, because I'm kind

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Speaker 2: of bouncing around right now. I could grab like five

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Speaker 2: or six different books that I'm part way through and

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Speaker 2: I don't care about that anymore. That's fine by me.

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Speaker 2: I'll get through them eventually. I also have given myself

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Speaker 2: permission to stop reading books and not read them at all,

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Speaker 2: like life is too short. I've decided to feel obligated

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Speaker 2: to read a crappy book. I used to be like,

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Speaker 2: you don't quit, like if you start something, you finish it.

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Speaker 2: And I thought that with books. So I grab a

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Speaker 2: book and i'd be reading it and I'm like a

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Speaker 2: third of the way through or halfway through, and like, man,

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Speaker 2: this is just not what I was hoping it would be.

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Speaker 2: And I would power through just to say I did it.

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Speaker 2: And I've stopped doing that because there's just like not

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Speaker 2: enough time to do that anymore.

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Speaker 4: Does that I'm getting like vicariously nervous when you say that,

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Speaker 4: because what that makes me think is like you can

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Speaker 4: when you give your self permission to quit. It makes

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Speaker 4: me think about running, you know, like when you go

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Speaker 4: for a run a lot of times and like the

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Speaker 4: weather changes or something, You're like, you want to give

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Speaker 4: yourself permission to quit, you.

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Speaker 3: Can't, yeah, And so do you do that? Eventually?

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Speaker 4: You're going to have, you know, a hundred books on

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Speaker 4: your bedstand and you've only read two chapters each one.

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Speaker 2: I don't think so, because this is like the one

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Speaker 2: place I've given myself permission to quit every just about

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Speaker 2: everything else, I'm pretty dead set.

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Speaker 5: I'm not.

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Speaker 2: But but it comes down to like reading, I think, uh,

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Speaker 2: I think I've gotten to a point where I can

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Speaker 2: trust myself in assessing something, whether like I'm going to

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Speaker 2: get out of this book what I thought I was

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Speaker 2: going to get, and I just think, like like going

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Speaker 2: for a run, I know I'm going to get in

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Speaker 2: what I put out, or I know I'm going to

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Speaker 2: get out of it what I put into it. But

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Speaker 2: a book, you are dependent on what the author put

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Speaker 2: into it. And if I can sense halfway through the hey,

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Speaker 2: he didn't put into this or she didn't put into

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Speaker 2: this what I'm hoping to get out of it, then

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Speaker 2: why am I going to waste another week of my

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Speaker 2: life on that when there's another really good book waiting.

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Speaker 2: There's so many books in the world, there's more books

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Speaker 2: than all everybody will be able to read, so many

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Speaker 2: great books, many great books on that bookshelf behind me,

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Speaker 2: that I still haven't gotten to or haven't quite finished

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Speaker 2: that I know I'm going to want to. So I'm

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Speaker 2: trusting myself now to sense when something is like, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'll give it a good shot. But sometimes, at least

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Speaker 2: from where I'm at now, Yeah, you get to pull

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Speaker 2: the plug sometimes and move on to the next, do you.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, hey, I'm still finishing you know, fifty

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Speaker 2: plus books a year, so yeah, all right, well I'm

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Speaker 2: quitting on too many times.

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Speaker 4: Well at you slide mark. Do you so you're working

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Speaker 4: on a book, your own book right now? Do you

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Speaker 4: do you cater your reading at all when you're like,

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Speaker 4: do you use that as inspiration when you're writing, like

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Speaker 4: when you're in a deep writing phase or not?

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Speaker 3: You do?

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Speaker 5: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Yes, So there's two. There's three kinds of reading that

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Speaker 2: I do while writing a book. I'm doing research for

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Speaker 2: my book, So a certain amount of my reading is

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Speaker 2: like reading that I'm taking notes on and studying the

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Speaker 2: topic that i'm writing about, finding out new sources, finding

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Speaker 2: new ideas, et cetera, building my wealth of knowledge. And

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Speaker 2: so I've been like reading slash researching for this book

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Speaker 2: for years and it's still ongoing now. And then there's

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Speaker 2: some reading where I do I read stuff about writing.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that's something you do at all,

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Speaker 2: But I've got like, I've got a big section of

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Speaker 2: my books off behind me. But then I have a

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Speaker 2: small lineup of books right in front of me right

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Speaker 2: now on my computer desk one, two, three, four, five, six,

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Speaker 2: and like fifteen books in front of me. And whenever

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Speaker 2: I find myself at the desk and I get like

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Speaker 2: writer's block or I'm hitting some kind of speed bump,

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Speaker 2: or I'm struggling or something, I will give myself a

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Speaker 2: five minute break and I'll reach for one of these

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Speaker 2: books and open to the bookmark or open to a

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Speaker 2: random page and just read a little bit, read for

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Speaker 2: a couple of minutes. And it's kind of like having

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Speaker 2: a mentor, like having a writing mentor there and they

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Speaker 2: might just have a good nugget for you today, or

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Speaker 2: they're a little bit of inspiration or something. So I

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Speaker 2: found that very helpful because I don't have like a

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Speaker 2: writing background as far as like an educational background. I

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Speaker 2: just picked it up myself over the years. So I've

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Speaker 2: I've depended on the published works of other people to

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Speaker 2: kind of guide me and mentor me. So I'll read

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Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, and then the last thing I

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Speaker 2: will read is I will just try to make sure

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Speaker 2: that while I'm in the writing process that some portion

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Speaker 2: of what I'm reading is just like writing that I

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Speaker 2: really really like, like the voice, the tone, someone who

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Speaker 2: just has it figured out that I can just kind

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Speaker 2: of read and like swim in that world and and

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Speaker 2: and let that kind of kind of marinate in that

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Speaker 2: kind of thing that I enjoy so much. And I

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Speaker 2: think that kind of transfers into you a little bit

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Speaker 2: and helps you write well when your when your mind

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Speaker 2: is full of good writing, I think it helps your

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Speaker 2: body create good writing. So I would say that's that's

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Speaker 2: how I read during the writing phase. Does any of

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Speaker 2: that resonate with you?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, man, I mean I I have a ton of

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Speaker 4: books on writing too, But I there's just certain books

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Speaker 4: that there's there's certain authors who have a style where

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Speaker 4: it's usually somebody who's like there's they're so good that

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Speaker 4: I just look at it and I'm like, there's no

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Speaker 4: way I would ever get there.

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Speaker 3: But it's kind of inspirational.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is going to sound dumb, but there's certain

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Speaker 4: things that I run across in my life, like certain

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Speaker 4: books you know that that's one of the reasons I

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Speaker 4: like McCarthy so much. But like, there's a you know

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Speaker 4: who Tom Morello is from Rage Against the Machine, right,

360
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 4: amazing guitarists, amazing. There's a performance with him and Bruce

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Speaker 4: Springsteen where they cover the Rage song Ghost of Tom

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00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:16,000
Speaker 4: Job and Tom Morello plays two guitar solos in there,

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Speaker 4: and the first one is incredible, but the second one

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Speaker 4: is like just it's something that's like so unique. There

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Speaker 4: might be one person other people could play it. There

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Speaker 4: might be one person in the world who could have

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Speaker 4: written that, and it's him. And so sometimes when I'm

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Speaker 4: like I'm looking for inspiration for stuff, sometimes I'll be like,

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Speaker 4: I got to just pull that up. I just got

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Speaker 4: to watch that performance. And it's the same way I

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Speaker 4: feel sometimes when I go back to like I mentioned

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Speaker 4: Blood Meritian or you know, some other book that I've

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Speaker 4: read a billion times, but I just like it just

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Speaker 4: does something for me, and so I'm not necessarily like

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Speaker 4: I need to copy their style or try to emulate

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Speaker 4: them or whatever. It's just like just seeing how freaking

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Speaker 4: good people can be at stuff is enough to just

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Speaker 4: get you to just be like I'm gonna just keep

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Speaker 4: plugging away at this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it makes you want to make your own

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Speaker 2: version of like something that would make someone feel that way,

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Speaker 2: you know, like that's that's inspiration. Like if you could

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Speaker 2: somehow create something even a tenth of that good, how

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Speaker 2: specialill that be?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 4: My god, tenth of that good? If I could play

387
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Speaker 4: guitar or tenth that good, I wouldn't be talking to

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Speaker 4: you right now.

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Speaker 3: I'd have a different career. Bro.

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Speaker 2: Well, on that note, why don't we Why don't we

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Speaker 2: get into some of our recommendations. I thought we could

392
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 2: kind of go back and forth and we each have

393
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Speaker 2: a list of at least five books getting us to

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Speaker 2: our top ten, if not more. We might cover more

395
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Speaker 2: than that, but you want to start with one and

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Speaker 2: give me a spiel, tell me about it and see

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Speaker 2: if it's one I know.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm gonna start with one that it just I

399
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:00,760
Speaker 4: just had to put on. And you and I actually

400
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,359
Speaker 4: talked about this book in in Michigan, you know, trout Bum.

401
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 4: It's just John Guarrock is just one of those books

402
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Speaker 4: where it's like his style is just he's so incredible,

403
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,400
Speaker 4: and it's an easy read, kind of adventure kind of

404
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,680
Speaker 4: just you know personal essays on you know, fly fishing,

405
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 4: but more just life and his Like that book is

406
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Speaker 4: one that I just go back to a lot, and.

407
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Speaker 3: You wouldn't have to.

408
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Speaker 4: If you know fly fishing, it would help, but you

409
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Speaker 4: don't have to, Like you could just read.

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Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, even if you're just an

411
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Speaker 2: angler of any kind, I think you would still enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: It's a he is a master, like he is someone

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Speaker 2: who is just a master storyteller. And it's it's so

414
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 2: full of of of like life and bigor like it's

415
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 2: just it's a lie on the page. You feel like

416
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 2: you're there. It's these little nuggets of like profound observation

417
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 2: where you're just like yes, like that's just so true.

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Speaker 2: But it seems effortless. Like at no point during any

419
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Speaker 2: of his books do you feel like it's overwritten. It's

420
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,439
Speaker 2: never like overly flowery or like a drag. You're just

421
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 2: like there, but it's so beautifully created. He's really really

422
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 2: really good.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean his that style is it seems so

424
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 4: simple and accessible, but it's that's the like mastery of it.

425
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Speaker 4: You know, when when people try to write like writers,

426
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,360
Speaker 4: they don't sound like him, you know, I mean and

427
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 4: and when you talk about his observations there, I'm sure

428
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 4: it's in that book, but he talks about seeing a

429
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 4: trout flash and pick up a nym for a something

430
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Speaker 4: he was drifting through a pool and seeing the yellow

431
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 4: belly of a brown trout and how the color is

432
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 4: like butter in a saute pan or in a frying pan,

433
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Speaker 4: and you're just like, that's like, that's like a perfect

434
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 4: description for that color. And I know there's another part

435
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 4: in there where he talks about how subtle a take

436
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,360
Speaker 4: can be, and it's like when a dog walks by

437
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 4: and your guitar is on a stand, like a like

438
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 4: a Golden retriever specifically, or some kind of like long

439
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 4: haired dog, and its tail just brushes the strings and

440
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 4: most people wouldn't even register it, but you hear this

441
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,719
Speaker 4: like very soft, subtle thing, and I'm like, that's like

442
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 4: such a good comparison to seeing like that. Just you know,

443
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 4: it's like an eighth of an inch tick in your

444
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 4: line where that where it picked up your nymph and

445
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 4: the like being tuned into that.

446
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 2: So good man Man, there's there's something about really really

447
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 2: good writers that I think they begin to see the

448
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 2: world in metaphor. By that, I mean like just through

449
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 2: their daily life. They they're always kind of noticing things

450
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 2: and connecting those dots between oh that things kind of

451
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 2: like this thing, and that's such like a magical power.

452
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 2: I heard a story once about f Scott Fitzgerald and

453
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 2: oh god, who was it? It was another famous writer

454
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 2: at the time, wasn't Hemingway.

455
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 5: It was.

456
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 2: F Scott Fitzgerald and someone else that if I said

457
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 2: the name, everyone would be like, oh, yeah, we've heard

458
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 2: of this guy. They would drive around in the countryside

459
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 2: and they would point at different things and they would

460
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 2: play a metaphor game. They'd point it like a tree,

461
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 2: and then they'd have to fare who could come up

462
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: with the best metaphor, like on the spot about that

463
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 2: tree is like this, you know. And they did that

464
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: just to like flex that muscle because of how important

465
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 2: that is as a writer to be able to help

466
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 2: paint those pictures in people's minds by connecting this thing

467
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 2: that you're trying to describe to another thing that people

468
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 2: have a resonance with. And John is a master at that.

469
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, So you mentioned Hemingway. Did he make your list?

470
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 2: He did not make my list, but almost did. I

471
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,199
Speaker 2: thought about including The Old Man in the Sea. The

472
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: Old Man in the Sea is a short one, but

473
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 2: but a really good one and uh, you know, kind

474
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 2: of one of those classics. But but no, he's not

475
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 2: on the list.

476
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 3: Man.

477
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 4: I've read a lot of his stuff, and it just

478
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 4: I just don't like his style. I mean, everybody likes

479
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 4: The Old Man in the Sea, you know, and I

480
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 4: like forced myself to go through. I think I read

481
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 4: everything that he wrote at one point, and I was

482
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 4: just like, for whatever reason, I just don't like his

483
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 4: stuff very much.

484
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 3: I don't know why.

485
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: I'm definitely not like a Hemingway obsessed person, like I haven't.

486
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: I have not read all the stuff I've read, you know,

487
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: Old Man the Sea I read back in high school,

488
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 2: a couple of the classics. I've read the Nick Adams stories.

489
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 2: I've read Oh, what's that Africa hunting one Green something

490
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 2: Green Green Hills, A yeah, yeah, and it's like it's good.

491
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 2: I actually like some of the essays. I found some

492
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 2: of those essays that were like published in like Esquire

493
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 2: or something like that, and so that stuff's pretty good,

494
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 2: like some blue marlin fishing and stuff like that. But yeah,

495
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 2: some of his books are just kind of actually slow,

496
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?

497
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 3: For whom the Bell Tolls. When I read that, I

498
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 3: was like, oh my god, this is like waterboarding.

499
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you said trout bum by John. I did

500
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 2: not list trout bum but I did list another John

501
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 2: Gearak book, so I think it's worth mentioning since it's

502
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 2: a different one. My favorite Gearraq book I've had to

503
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: pick one is actually At the Grave of the Unknown Fishermen.

504
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 2: Have you read that one?

505
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 3: Yep?

506
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what's cool about this one? A lot of

507
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: his books are kind of random essays, scattershot about all

508
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 2: sorts of different kinds of stuff, and this is the

509
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 2: one book he did that describes one single year from

510
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 2: the beginning of the year to the end of the year.

511
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: And I kind of liked that, just you know, following

512
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: chronologically what his year of phishing looks like. So all

513
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 2: the things we talked about trout Bummer true for this too.

514
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: Just that kind of more focused narrative and each essay

515
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 2: kind of connected back. So he would mention something in

516
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 2: chapter eight that references something chapter one, or that happened

517
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 2: in chapter one or two that's not used to the

518
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,719
Speaker 2: case of his books, So it is kind of unique.

519
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 2: I liked it a lot. So many good like one

520
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 2: liners and like quotes in this Like I've got a

521
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: little book that I've sometimes do better, sometimes do worse.

522
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 2: But I've got like a little book that I try

523
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 2: to write down like little quotes or little excerpts and

524
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 2: books that I really like, so I can go back

525
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 2: and you never know when you might need a quote

526
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 2: or a little something. And there's so many from this book,

527
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 2: and one of them I pulled out speaks exactly to

528
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 2: what you were talking about about his level of observation.

529
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: So I'm a you just a little bit here. It's

530
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: just like so true. He's talking about birding while he's fishing.

531
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 2: So he goes out fishing, but then he ends up

532
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 2: looking at birds and noticing all this kind of stuff

533
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 2: around him. So he was talking about watching for birds.

534
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 2: He's a visual birder. YadA, YadA, YadA, And I'll pick

535
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 2: up here. I was using the straightforward method for learning

536
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 2: bird songs that an old bird watcher friend recommends, namely,

537
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 2: when you hear birds singing, go see what it is.

538
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 2: And this is the same kind of thing you do

539
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 2: in fly fishing. You pay attention piece things together, learn

540
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 2: to actually see what you've been looking at all along,

541
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 2: and sooner or later you no longer have to be

542
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 2: beaten over the head before you understand what's going on.

543
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 2: This can take a long time, longer for some than

544
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: for others. I've been at it for better than half

545
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 2: a lifetime, and there are still days when I think

546
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: I miss more than I see. Although how much you've

547
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 2: missed is yet another one of those things that you

548
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 2: can never know for sure unless there's someone there to

549
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: point it out. So there's like these little kind of

550
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 2: blurbs in there where he is talking about what he's

551
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 2: seeing on the water, and then he talks about something

552
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 2: else is actually about life or you know, I don't know.

553
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 2: I just love it. There's so many different things like that.

554
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 2: Such a good book. All of them are so good.

555
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 2: He's got like sixteen now, so you can, you know,

556
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 2: spend years working your way through his library. And we

557
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: could probably do a whole podcast just about his different books.

558
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 3: So good. What's next for you? You know what? On

559
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 3: that vein?

560
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 4: So when you when you texted me about this podcast,

561
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm going to pick the books that

562
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 4: either the entire book was like just stuck with me

563
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 4: no matter when I read it in my life or

564
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 4: the ones that there's like something I always want to

565
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 4: go back to, even if it's not the entire book.

566
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 4: And so this is this is probably a weird choice

567
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 4: because there's way better writers out there.

568
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 3: Uh, but I put.

569
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 4: Gene Hill on the list, and I don't I don't

570
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 4: know if you've read a lot of his stuff. You know,

571
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 4: he wrote the Hill Country backpage for Field and Stream Forever,

572
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 4: but he he has a couple of different essays that

573
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 4: are like I just love him so much. But he

574
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 4: has one that's not about hunting at all, called the

575
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,959
Speaker 4: Gentle Giant of Time, and it's in it's in a

576
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 4: couple of his different collections, but it's like him. I

577
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 4: don't even really want to talk about it too much

578
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 4: and spoil it. It's only like, you know, a three

579
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 4: page reader, four page read, but it's him kind of

580
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 4: like realizing his own mortality through a very like unconventional way.

581
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 3: And what I love about him, you.

582
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 4: Know, he's a he's a bird dog writer, known as

583
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 4: a bird dog writer, even though he wrote about fly

584
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,239
Speaker 4: fishing and a lot of other stuff. But what I

585
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 4: love about him is like had this like little personal

586
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 4: connection to him through working through Field and Stream with

587
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 4: an editor who also edited his stuff before he died.

588
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 4: And I remember talking to him on a hunt one

589
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 4: time and I was like, what what's it like to

590
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 4: work and Jean Hills stuff? And He's like, it's a

591
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 4: freaking nightmare. He sends in handwritten pages that are full

592
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 4: of mistakes and just full of grammar errors and stuff,

593
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:17,959
Speaker 4: but the structures like so sound and so accessible, and

594
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 4: I always I don't. I used to go back to

595
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 4: him a lot. I don't as much anymore, but I probably,

596
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 4: like once a year, find a reason to recommend that

597
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 4: essay to somebody to maybe get them hooked. Because if

598
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 4: you love I mean, he's kind of he's like a

599
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 4: couple other authors that I have on my list. But

600
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 4: if you love somebody who's like just very relatable, like

601
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 4: very average, but can write so much better than you think,

602
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 4: and like, you know, if you have a real bend

603
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 4: toward dogs like I do, and some of the things

604
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,959
Speaker 4: that he likes, he's just it's just fun, thoughtful writing.

605
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. What was the name of the essay again?

606
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 3: The Gentle Giant of Time?

607
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: A gentle Giant of Time?

608
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 4: All right, it's like that little bun. It's like that

609
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 4: little Tom Morello sol. I just go back to it

610
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 4: because it's just it's so good, and it's like how

611
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 4: you know, how this is when you're writing, you know, books, whatever,

612
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 4: you got to write a mediator article or something. Inspiration

613
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,719
Speaker 4: comes in weird places like it come you know, it

614
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 4: doesn't come a lot of times from you picking up

615
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 4: a book and reading it and be like, oh, I'm

616
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 4: gonna I'm going to break off on this topic here.

617
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 4: It's just sometimes that stuff falls into your lap. You know,

618
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 4: you're out walking with the boys in the woods or

619
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 4: something and like an idea hits you. You know, it

620
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 4: just like yeah, it just shows up in your brain.

621
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 4: And I think that that's just the way that he

622
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 4: writes a lot of times is like that, just being

623
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 4: out there and being like, oh, this thing is like

624
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 4: this this is a part of what we do. But

625
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 4: it's also a reflection on life somehow.

626
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 2: So another essay that kind of is like that for

627
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 2: me is one called The Heart of the Game by

628
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: Thomas mcgway. You know that one.

629
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 3: Yep, I didn't put him on my list, but he

630
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 3: was real close.

631
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, The Heart of the Game is an incredible essay.

632
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 2: It's in his collection of essays called Outside Chance. It's

633
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 2: also I think Outside Magazine published it as well, and originally,

634
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 2: I think it was published originally in Sports Illustrated way

635
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: back in the day in the seventies or something when

636
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: that was more of like a literary outlet. But that

637
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 2: essay is one that's it's very long, and it's winding,

638
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 2: and it's it's all these different scenes. Some he's out hunting,

639
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: some he's at his cabin, some he's just thinking about

640
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 2: hunting or about the outside world. But all of these

641
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 2: different little vignettes paint a picture without him really saying it.

642
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 2: It paints picture of kind of how he views hunting

643
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: and its intersection with his life and the seriousness of that.

644
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: And it's it's it's profound. It's really really good. And

645
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 2: that essay is also in one of the books that

646
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: did include in my list, which is called A Hunter's Heart,

647
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: which is a collection of essays. It's the subtitles Honest

648
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: Essays on Blood Sport and it's edited and collected by

649
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 2: David Peterson. Have you read this one, Tony.

650
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 5: Man?

651
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: This book I think should be required reading for like

652
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 2: every hunter. It is so good, and it is. It's

653
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 2: a collection of essays from all sorts of amazing writers,

654
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 2: all tackling different viewpoints and different perspectives and different experiences

655
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: with hunting. So there's people talking and hear about why

656
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 2: they hunt. There's people talking in here about why they

657
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 2: used to hunt but they don't they don't or can't anymore.

658
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 2: There's people talking about their concerns and reservations about hunting.

659
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 2: There's talks of there's essays in here about ethics and

660
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 2: morals and how we hunt and how we use the

661
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: lives and animals that we harvest. It is. It is

662
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: like a crash course in understanding the why and how

663
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 2: behind our hunting. And it was. It was a book

664
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 2: I read when I was in my early twenties that like,

665
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: profoundly changed how I look at what I do as

666
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 2: a hunter. Not every single one of these essays, I think.

667
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 2: I think different essays resonate differently, and some you'll be like, ah,

668
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 2: this isn't for me. But I think, without a doubt

669
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 2: there are someone here that will just like leave you

670
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: floored for a while and thinking for days. And I'll

671
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 2: read a little excerpt from the introduction from the editor

672
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 2: David Peterson. He's talking about how, you know, he's got

673
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 2: a lot of friends that hunt and a lot of

674
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 2: friends that don't hunt, and how oftentimes those two groups

675
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 2: of people are always talking past each other. He described

676
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 2: kind of the idea that, you know, there's a mental

677
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 2: picture of a group of people sitting in a circle

678
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 2: of chairs together, but all the chairs are facing out,

679
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 2: And that's kind of how he feels hunters and non hunters,

680
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 2: you know, interact. And so the goal of this book,

681
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 2: in a certain way, was to try to help those

682
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 2: two parties come together and better understand each other. And

683
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: so he says, like, unlike my urban friends, I am

684
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: rural and blooded to the elbows. I've been hunting and

685
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 2: fishing and thus killing for nearly four decades. Even so

686
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 2: I am no less torn and confused about so called

687
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 2: blood sport than they. It is an exceedingly complex issue,

688
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 2: and not as self appointed spokespersons for both sides would

689
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 2: have it simply right or wrong, often is not. It's both,

690
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: so much so that I sometimes think, were I not

691
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: a hunter myself, lacking that intimate perspective that hunter's heart,

692
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 2: I suppose I could become an anti hunter the line

693
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 2: is that fine? And he goes on to and all

694
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 2: these essays go on to describe this like complex soup

695
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: of emotions and motivations and experiences that is hunting and

696
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 2: in just magical ways. So folks including this book.

697
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 3: Sorry good, Oh he's isn't he from Colorado? Yeah? You know? Yeah? Okay, yeah,

698
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 3: I know.

699
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 2: Ye he lives he lives up in like the San

700
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 2: Juans I think.

701
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 4: So, uh, what's interesting about that that take? If you

702
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 4: if you say the line is so fine between me

703
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 4: being who I am and me being an anti hunter,

704
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 4: a lot of people are going to listen or read that,

705
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 4: listen to it here, I guess, and go after him

706
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 4: like I know people have gone after him for views

707
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 4: like that, and it's so it's so interesting to me.

708
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 4: Just just randomly yesterday, I don't know when it published,

709
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 4: It must have been very recently, but Pat Dirkin published

710
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 4: a piece on the meadeater dot com where the title

711
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 4: was like should the FEDS be managing our deer al

712
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 4: Kurtz or something like that?

713
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah.

714
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 4: So I was working my dogs and one of my

715
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 4: buddies texted me and he's like, how does Dirkin still

716
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 4: have a job? With meat Eater and I and I

717
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 4: texted him back, I go, what are we talking about here?

718
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 4: And he goes, it's like he's just siding with the

719
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 4: anti hunters on that latest article on the meat eater,

720
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 4: you know, the medeater dot com. And so I was like, Okay, well,

721
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,479
Speaker 4: I'm going to read this when I get back, because

722
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 4: I hadn't.

723
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 3: Read it yet.

724
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 4: And he laid out a case with a bunch of

725
00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 4: biologists and researchers, very very well done journalism, like you

726
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 4: don't get the sense that Pat's taken aside either way.

727
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 4: And he just said, you know, a lot of people

728
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 4: are concerned that we're managing for as many animals as

729
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 4: possible to the detriment of some of the natural you know,

730
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 4: plant life out there, and that it's not not the

731
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 4: best way to be doing this. And it's hard for

732
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 4: state game managers to buck that trend when the voices

733
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 4: they hear are hunters and the money that they're receiving

734
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 4: is from hunters, even though game populations are supposed to

735
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 4: be managed for the entire you know, everybody in the state.

736
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 4: And so he just laid out a very clear case.

737
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 4: I mean, he had Jason Sumners in there from Missouri,

738
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 4: who I had on you know, we had on ware

739
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 4: to Hunt last year or two years ago, and I

740
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 4: read it and I was just like, this was just

741
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 4: like an objective reporting of this thing that's that's going

742
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 4: to come into our life, like this is going to

743
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 4: be an issue at some point.

744
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 3: But my buddy's perspective.

745
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 4: Was just he's just advocating for us to have all

746
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 4: the deer and elk killed off and not have enough

747
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 4: of him.

748
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 3: And I was like, man, what.

749
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 4: A weird what a weird little like place we live

750
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 4: in where you know, we're so biased toward wanting easier opportunities.

751
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 3: And more deer.

752
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 4: And I mean, I get where he's coming from, but

753
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 4: I'm like, you're in His interpretation of that was so

754
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 4: vastly different than when I got out of it. But

755
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 4: that's like what Peterson's talking about in that intro is like, man,

756
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 4: we even though we're all kind of we're all here

757
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 4: because we love the same thing, we love it for

758
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 4: a lot of different reasons, and we see a vastly different,

759
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 4: you know, viable paths for how to continue on this thing.

760
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 4: It was like a like a weird eye opener to me.

761
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 2: It's complex stuff, And I think it's so easy to

762
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: get stuck in echo chambers where all we listen to

763
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 2: is our own people with the same talking points, and

764
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 2: we just like hammer those same talking points and over

765
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 2: and over again. And these days, like cancel culture is

766
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 2: just as alive on the conservative side, as just as

767
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 2: alive in the hunting and fishing world as it is

768
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 2: on the other side, and the anti hunting world or

769
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 2: the liberal whatever world, like cancel culture is everwhere, And

770
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 2: it's so easy to hear something that doesn't jive with

771
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 2: your talking points and then just be like, if that

772
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: person shutting him down, how does this guy still have

773
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 2: a job. He's willing to bring up an uncomfortable possibility,

774
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 2: an uncomfortable different viewpoint than I've been told, how dare he?

775
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 2: I think we need to engage and take in those

776
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: different ideas and viewpoints, even if we don't agree with him,

777
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 2: if only to just better understand these other ideas and

778
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 2: these other people so that we can maybe make our

779
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 2: own case met better. That's why I think, like man,

780
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 2: especially today, when there's all this stuff going on with

781
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 2: ballot box biology and people coming for different hunting opportunities,

782
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 2: right there is momentum behind some of these anti hunting measures,

783
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 2: and I think most people don't want to like. The

784
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 2: approach I see from a lot of people is they

785
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:08,919
Speaker 2: want to like slam down the gates and like they're

786
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 2: building barriers. It's like they want to arm like grab

787
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 2: all the guns, pull down the gates, batter around the hatches.

788
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,720
Speaker 2: It's time for war, you know, screw these other people.

789
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 2: And sometimes maybe that's the right approach. But sometimes actually

790
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 2: a more effective while it doesn't seem like what you

791
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: want to do, the more pragmatic, effective perspective is actually

792
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: walk across the drawbridge, rock, across the moat and talk

793
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 2: to these people, shake a hand and say, hey, I

794
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 2: hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure you understand

795
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 2: what it is we're actually doing it. Maybe I don't

796
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 2: understand your perspective too. And if we actually, like understood

797
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 2: each other better, we might realize that eighty five percent

798
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 2: of the time we want the same things. And if

799
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 2: there was more of that going on, I think there

800
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 2: would be a whole lot fewer of these problems. And

801
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,839
Speaker 2: this book is like that to a t like this

802
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 2: book would be the perfect for every hunter to read today,

803
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 2: as we're facing more and more of these challenges. This

804
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 2: is the kind of stuff that's going to lead us

805
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,240
Speaker 2: to have more useful dialogue when it comes to making

806
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 2: the case for why we should be able to hunt

807
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 2: still today, the value we bring why our way of

808
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 2: life is necessary and useful and an important part of

809
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 2: this culture. There's folks in here like Richard Nelson, Ed Abbey,

810
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 2: ab Guthrie, Terry Tempess, Williams m R. James Bruce Woods,

811
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 2: Jim Posowitz, David Peterson, Thomas McGuane, Thomas McIntyre, Rick Bass,

812
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 2: Jim Harrison, Steve Bodeo, Dan Crockett, Ted Williams, Russell Chatham,

813
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 2: Guy Adela Valden, Ted Karasop, Pete mcthiason, Barry Lopez. Like

814
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 2: big time writers talking about really important stuff. So this

815
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 2: is like a book that you have to like, chew on.

816
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,439
Speaker 2: It's not a book that you read for fun. It's

817
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 2: a read. It's a book you read and like it's

818
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 2: going to make you think. And I think that's a

819
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 2: good thing to do sometimes. So Hunter's Heart, I cannot

820
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 2: recommend that enough.

821
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:24,439
Speaker 5: Nice What do you geah?

822
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 4: So you had a you listed off a guy in

823
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 4: there that I had to put on here Jim Harrison, Yeah, man,

824
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 4: And you know he doesn't have like a he doesn't

825
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 4: have like a typical here's your hunting fishing book really

826
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 4: like he has he has books that are laced with

827
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 4: the outdoors. And so I did a it's it's going

828
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 4: to drop next week. But I have a Foundations episode

829
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 4: called touch Grass bro like coming up about how we're

830
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 4: generally pretty rest out right now anxious like people are

831
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 4: just they're keyed up, man. And there's so much scientific evidence,

832
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 4: there's so much research data about how good being in

833
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 4: green spaces is for it being outdoors. And so I

834
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 4: kind of tie that together and I think, you know,

835
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 4: so the book that I put on here is True North.

836
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 3: I just love it so much. I love all of.

837
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 4: Harrison's books whatever, like they're all great, but True North

838
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 4: is like, you know that kind of like he lives

839
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 4: in Michigan, that struggle of like being kind of a

840
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 4: trust fund baby but like not being happy going out

841
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 4: into the woods over and over and over again to

842
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 4: try to figure out how to just like keep muddling

843
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 4: his way through life. And it's like so relatable where

844
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 4: it's just it's it's not like a it's not like

845
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 4: a writer's trick. It's like he's like, I'm writing about

846
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 4: a character who's going through whatever he's going through, and

847
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 4: the natural thing to do would be to go wade

848
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 4: into a trout stream for a few hours, or go

849
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 4: walk a two track to try to shoot a grouse

850
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,919
Speaker 4: for dinner, and just kind of like, you know, take

851
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 4: that medicine, like you know, it's always available for you

852
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 4: and recognizing when you need it. So it really probably

853
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 4: wouldn't have mattered what I put on there. But I

854
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 4: do really really love true North, But I just love

855
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 4: his style of just kind of like stream of conscious

856
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 4: writing that's very seems like it would be easy to

857
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 4: emulate and is like impossible because you might get one

858
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 4: paragraph that describes, you know, like the migrating habits of

859
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 4: some little songbird somewhere that he saw while he was

860
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 4: standing in a trout stream thinking about this chick that

861
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 4: just dumped him.

862
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,399
Speaker 3: Kind of thing. Just mastery so good.

863
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 2: What's the name of his essay collection that is that

864
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 2: has like hunting and fishing essays in it? Something dark

865
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 2: just after Dark?

866
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 3: Maybe?

867
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 2: Is that it just before dark? Yeah, that's it just

868
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 2: before dark. Yep, that's a collection of nonfiction essays, which

869
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 2: there's there's some that are specifically hunting, some specifically fishing,

870
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 2: and there's some just like eating in food. You know,

871
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 2: he's obviously he's very into food. That's another one that

872
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 2: i'd recommend to folks, because yeah, he's you can in

873
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 2: his fiction, so much of it feels like subtly autobiographical,

874
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: don't you think it.

875
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 3: Has to be?

876
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 4: I mean it, yeah, yeah, And I mean he has

877
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 4: other stuff too, you know, I mean probably his most

878
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 4: well known, you know, Legends of the Fall. It's like

879
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 4: general population why it is pretty well known, which is

880
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 4: obviously not autobiographical, probably, but a lot of his stuff

881
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 4: is Michigan based where he grew up, and feels very like, yeah,

882
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 4: this definitely happened to him.

883
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Great great stuff. So so my next

884
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 2: recommendation is very different than what we've been talking about.

885
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 2: This one is not a thinker. This one is not literary,

886
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 2: This one is not fancy, none of that. This is

887
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 2: this is the one book on my list that is

888
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 2: like a white tail bow hunting specific book. It's even

889
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 2: got a little bit of how to in it, but

890
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 2: it is the one white tail hunting book that I

891
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 2: have picked up multiple times in read because I enjoyed

892
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 2: the story too. You ever read White Tail Access by

893
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 2: Chris eberhart Man, This is just like, this is a

894
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 2: great fun book. It's it's you know, like I said,

895
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 2: not it's not Jim Harrison, but uh, but Chris takes

896
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 2: you along with him on a ride as he takes

897
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 2: a hunting season, traveling across the country, living out of

898
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:02,280
Speaker 2: a van, hunting by permission or on public land across

899
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 2: North Dakota, Ohio, Wisconsin, Missouri, Michigan. I think of the

900
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:12,720
Speaker 2: states he hits, and you know, you're hearing about his life,

901
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:15,800
Speaker 2: like literally getting out of his van in the morning,

902
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 2: pouring a gallon of water over his head to get

903
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 2: cleaned up, seeing a pheasant cross the corn rows in

904
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 2: front of him. And then he's talking through like thinking

905
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 2: through where's he going to hunt for the evening hunt,

906
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 2: what's the weather, what he's thinking, how he's struggling being

907
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 2: out there for his eighth day in a row. And

908
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 2: then he talks through his hunting strategy. You hear the

909
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 2: stories of his hunts. There's some diagrams in here of

910
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 2: hunting locations and stuff, so there's you can read this

911
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 2: and learn stuff that will help you become a better hunter,

912
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 2: for sure. But it's also just like a fun story,

913
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 2: like how many folks have dreamed of taking three months

914
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 2: off of work and traveling the country to hunt. It's

915
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 2: it's a cool book. It's it's the one of these

916
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 2: that I'm going to recommend people that will definitely help

917
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 2: you as a her. And it's also just like a

918
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 2: good easy read that's gonna give you something to dream

919
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 2: about too. And uh, Chris is uh. Chris has written

920
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 2: some for me in the past. He wrote for me

921
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 2: some of the past for Wired to Hunt. He's no

922
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 2: longer with us, which is which is really sad, but

923
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 2: he was a good guy. And uh he wrote a

924
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 2: great book here. So I can't Uh, I can't recommend

925
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 2: this one enough. And I understand it's hard to find

926
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 2: this book now, I think because it's I don't know

927
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: if it's in print anymore. But if you can find it,

928
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 2: it's worth it.

929
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's he did a good job with Alan.

930
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've always thought that would be a I'd like

931
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 2: to write a book like that someday because that just

932
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 2: seems like a fun way to do a white tail book.

933
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 3: That was such a sad deal.

934
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, uh, what do you get next?

935
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 3: So I had to put Robert Ruark on there somewhere.

936
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 2: Just had I wondered if he would be in the list.

937
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 3: Yeah.

938
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 4: I love Ruark so much even, you know, like you

939
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 4: want to talk about hardcore alcoholic who went and killed

940
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 4: everything in Africa? Yeah, I mean it's amazing their stories

941
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 4: right like then when they're when they'll recount it, kind

942
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 4: of like Steinbeck.

943
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 3: I don't know if you ever read.

944
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: Uh on the Roads No, uh.

945
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 4: See if Cortes it was he went with some biologists out,

946
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 4: so you know, it's it's what he actually did. You know,

947
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 4: it's not East of Eden type of stuff. But he

948
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 4: went out on a boat out in California off the

949
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 4: coast California somewhere I think, and they were studying marine

950
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 4: biology and he was kind of hanging on, but he

951
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 4: was just like running through the amount of alcohol they

952
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 4: went through on their trips, and it's like such a

953
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 4: central you know. Harrison was like that too, I mean

954
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 4: it was yeah, it was always wine typically well not

955
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 4: always wine, but a lot. But it's anyway, side note,

956
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 4: rue Arc, if you want to talk about somebody who

957
00:50:55,120 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 4: can put you somewhere and like the smell of the

958
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 4: ocean and you know, the taste of the oysters they

959
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 4: just caught. It's it was hard for me to pick,

960
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 4: Like I wanted to go with like Horn of the

961
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 4: Hunter or something like that, but I think if you

962
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 4: want like a rock solid introduction to him, you can't

963
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 4: beat the old Man and the Boy, Like you just

964
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 4: can't beat it. And it's very you know, I mean

965
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 4: you could give that to like a eleven year old

966
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 4: and they would probably love it just as much as

967
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 4: like a sixty year old person. Like it's a very

968
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 4: accessible writing, but just his dynamic of like growing up

969
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 4: with his grandpa, you know, like teaching him how to

970
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 4: hunt and fish everything, and like the the like ethics

971
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 4: lessons that are just woven throughout his stories about how

972
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 4: you know, like he made this decision to you know,

973
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 4: shoot the quail on the ground or hunt the hunt

974
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 4: the covey the only trail, train the dogs on or whatever,

975
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 4: or like you know, people out of his grandpa punching

976
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 4: a guy for swearing in front of women at a

977
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 4: boat landing one time, Like just stuff like that where

978
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 4: you're like, it's so it's an old school look like

979
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 4: you know, because this happened decades ago, but you can

980
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 4: still there's so many echoes of it that just work today.

981
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 3: And it's so it's just it's like a masterpiece. Man.

982
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 2: I haven't admission to make you've never read it. I

983
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 2: own it, and I've read the beginning of it, but

984
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 2: I've not finished yet. That's a book that my finishing

985
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 2: problem has been bad. I need to I need to

986
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 2: take that back down. Just read that sucker.

987
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 4: That It's a when you were when you were talking

988
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 4: about how like as you get getting real deep into

989
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 4: winter and maybe you can like see the light at

990
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 4: the end of the tunnel with spring, and you're like,

991
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 4: I gotta just read stuff that puts me in a

992
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 4: place that like Adventure, that book that was what popped

993
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 4: into my head. Is I get like a craving for

994
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 4: that book sometimes in like February, where you know it's

995
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a it's an easy read, it doesn't

996
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 4: take very long, but it's all, you know, get you

997
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 4: down on the coast in the Carolinas and get you

998
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 4: out in the swamps and stuff, and it's like, I

999
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:00,439
Speaker 4: don't know, it just puts you there.

1000
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 3: Man. His his imagery is like I think unparalleled.

1001
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 2: So you mentioned his his Africa books. Do you have

1002
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,879
Speaker 2: a different Africa book on your list?

1003
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,360
Speaker 4: Uh, nope, I have. I have one based out of India.

1004
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 2: Okay, interesting, Well, I was just gonna say one of

1005
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 2: the Africa related books, don't. I don't really have any

1006
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:28,800
Speaker 2: desire to hunt in Africa, but I've still found books

1007
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 2: about that time period, you know that you're talking about,

1008
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 2: like twentieth century, those early hunts out there, like those

1009
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 2: are just fascinating books to read, and some well done ones.

1010
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 2: One I enjoy that, you know, is a little bit

1011
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 2: over the top sometimes, but uh, I think it's Death

1012
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 2: in the Long Grass by Peter Capstick Halfway.

1013
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 3: I think Peter Halfway Capstick.

1014
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Yeah, you've read that one.

1015
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 3: Then I read all of his stuff.

1016
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 2: Yeah that's pretty good too.

1017
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 4: You know, so I read all my dad had all

1018
00:53:58,400 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 4: those books grown up, I have a whole bunch of

1019
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 4: They're so entertaining and hunting, you know, calling rogue elephants

1020
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 4: and hunting man eaters, and like his stories are wild,

1021
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 4: and I you know, I grew up.

1022
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,879
Speaker 3: I was like, those are the best. They're the best

1023
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 3: books I've ever read.

1024
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 4: And then I met a few old school writers in

1025
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 4: the industry who told me that his stuff was total bullshit.

1026
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 4: And I have no idea whether that. Yeah, I have

1027
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 4: no idea whether that's true or not, and I kind

1028
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 4: of don't want to know. I kind of like I

1029
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 4: kind of got the impression that they were just jealous,

1030
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 4: or maybe I just wanted them to be. But that's

1031
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 4: always like when Capstick comes up, Like that's always in

1032
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 4: the back of my mind, like they just kind of

1033
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 4: like it's like when A sixth Sense came out, that

1034
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 4: m Night Shyamalan movie. I was in a I was

1035
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 4: in a college class and this dude across the table

1036
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 4: from me was talking about it and he told the

1037
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 4: whole table that Bruce Willis was dead, and I was like, you,

1038
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 4: so I never got to enjoy that.

1039
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, total spoiler.

1040
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 4: And I feel the way like when that you know,

1041
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 4: obviously that movie doesn't come up that often in like

1042
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 4: general conversations, but every time it's mentioned, I'm like, God,

1043
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 4: dang it, the freaking guy ruined it for me. And

1044
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 4: I feel the same way about Capstick a little bit.

1045
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 4: But even if it was even if he made up

1046
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 4: ninety percent of it, it's still so good.

1047
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh, it's enthralling. It takes you out there.

1048
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 2: You feel like you're on a pretty grand adventure, that's

1049
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 2: for sure.

1050
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 3: So you would you wouldn't go to Africa.

1051
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 2: No, I want to go to Africa, just not to hunt.

1052
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 2: I do not think. I don't think I want to hunt.

1053
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe someday, maybe after I go visit once, but

1054
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 2: I'd like to go once with like the family and

1055
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:47,839
Speaker 2: just see these creatures and see this place. I don't

1056
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 2: know if the first time I want to see I

1057
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 2: don't know, a kudu or whatever. I want to shoot it.

1058
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 2: I kind of want to experience that place and just

1059
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 2: kind of I don't know, I don't know. I just

1060
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 2: don't feel the need to go and hunt those animals

1061
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 2: right away. I just want to. It seems so rare,

1062
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 2: and so I know they're not all rare, but it

1063
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 2: just seems like so other And also many of them

1064
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 2: are threatened, and I know there's a need for hunting,

1065
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 2: and I know the conservation value of the dollars that

1066
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 2: all that brings into. So I'm not saying I've got

1067
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 2: a personal vendet against any of that kind of stuff.

1068
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 2: It's just maybe not for me, but I would like

1069
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 2: to go there and experience that place and that culture

1070
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 2: in those animals, and hoping to do that with the

1071
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 2: kids at some point here in the next decade or so.

1072
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 3: The hunting over there is weird, man, you know, I

1073
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 3: did it one time.

1074
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 2: Did you do it?

1075
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 4: Yeah? I don't know, man, I get every side of

1076
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,479
Speaker 4: the Africa thing. Like some people love it, some people

1077
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 4: want to go fill up their trophy room. Some people

1078
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 4: just love the environment. And then you know, like there's

1079
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 4: a lot of reasons to do it. The hunting is

1080
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 4: at least the hunting I experienced was really not my thing,

1081
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 4: like I but I know there's hunting over there that

1082
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 4: you can get that would be like if you if

1083
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 4: you know, Steve Verneller called me up and he's like, Hey,

1084
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 4: we're gonna go spot in stock Kpe Buffalo, I'd be

1085
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:15,240
Speaker 4: like I would.

1086
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 3: I would do that in a heartbeat.

1087
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 4: Like there's certain kinds of hunts and certain animals that

1088
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 4: would be a real challenge, but a lot of it,

1089
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 4: you know, like you mentioned threatened animals, Like dudes like

1090
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 4: us are never hunting anything that would even be perceived

1091
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 4: as threatened. Yeah, you know, like you just if you

1092
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 4: know you want to talk about like lions or something

1093
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 4: like that. You know, most of the lions that you

1094
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 4: see that are shot over there, especially like in South Africa,

1095
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 4: those those lions were never wild, you know, like you're

1096
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 4: not taking from the wild population.

1097
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 3: You see the.

1098
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 4: Koodoo in Paula, warhogs, whatever, like the planes, game stuff.

1099
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 4: There's tons of that stuff over there, but it's not

1100
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 4: it's like a domestic animal trade over there. Everything's high fence.

1101
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 4: So even you know, they're huge places, but they're all like,

1102
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 4: well we're bringing in more im Paula because our population

1103
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 4: is a little lower or whatever. It's a it's a

1104
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 4: weird situation, and so you know, it's easy to kind

1105
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 4: of sit here and be like, well, we have tons

1106
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 4: of public land and we have a lot of big

1107
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 4: game animals small game animals to hunt and look at

1108
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 4: look down on that. But that's just the system they have,

1109
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 4: like they you know, like they they there are reasons

1110
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 4: behind that, but it is a weird. There's some stuff

1111
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 4: over there where. I was like, you know, Kudu, for example,

1112
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 4: you brought up everybody wants a great big spiral horned

1113
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 4: Kudu and I when I went over there, I was like, yeah,

1114
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 4: I want to shoot a kudu, And as soon as

1115
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 4: I had them in front of me, they were just

1116
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 4: where we were.

1117
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 3: They were just dumb.

1118
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 4: They weren't on their a game, like, they weren't paying attention,

1119
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 4: and I just was like, as soon as I watched

1120
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 4: them for a little while, I was like, I'm probably

1121
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 4: not going to shoot a kudu, and I didn't, And

1122
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 4: so you kind of but then you have like something

1123
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 4: like a games buck where you're like, maybe that thing

1124
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 4: and then they kick your ass over and over and

1125
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 4: you're like, Okay, now here's a challenge. So there's a

1126
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 4: lot built into it. But you're right, like I would

1127
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:10,479
Speaker 4: I would go back to photograph animals and be there

1128
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 4: like almost probably more likely to do that than I

1129
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 4: would be to hunt, unless it was a very specific

1130
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 4: kind of hunt.

1131
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it seems just kind of murky, like just

1132
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 2: it's so different, so outside of our norm Yeah, that

1133
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 2: that's hard to really wrap your head around any of it.

1134
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 2: And I think it goes back to some of the

1135
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 2: stuff we were talking about earlier. It's so easy for

1136
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 2: folks to make assumptions, to take sides on issues when

1137
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 2: they don't really fully understand it, right, until you actually

1138
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 2: get out there and see it for yourself and talk

1139
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 2: to people involved in it themselves. It's it's really hard

1140
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 2: to have an educated stance on anything. So I guess

1141
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 2: I want to be able to wrap my head around

1142
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 2: a little bit more before I figure out how I

1143
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 2: want to fully engage, you know.

1144
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 4: Well, and I mean, if it were being like totally honest,

1145
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 4: Africa is a rich man's you know what I mean, Like,

1146
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 4: there's a certain kind of person who's going to go

1147
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 4: over there, and it's not the dude you're going to

1148
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 4: bump into on public land in Michigan, you know. And

1149
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 4: so there's there's a catering to that crowd, you know,

1150
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 4: kind of like the Argentina Dove thing, Like there's a

1151
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 4: certain kind of person who can afford to go do

1152
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 4: that and who also has the desire, and it's just

1153
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 4: really not we're living in a different world, you know.

1154
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is very true. So that is a perfect

1155
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 2: segue to one of my next book recommendations, which is

1156
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 2: a book full of stories and from a perspective that

1157
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 2: is very much like the everyman. It's very much stuff

1158
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 2: that's relatable to the best of hunters and the worst

1159
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 2: of hunters and everything in between. And this author and

1160
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 2: writer has a number of books. I wasn't sure which

1161
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 2: of them to pick, so I grabbed his latest one.

1162
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 2: But the person I'm talking about is Bill Heavy, another

1163
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 2: fellow Field and Stream writer, and Bill is hilarious. He

1164
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 2: wrote he still writes the back page column for Field

1165
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 2: and Stream and you know, so I think his first

1166
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 2: collection of essays was if you didn't bring jerky? What

1167
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 2: did I just eat? And then the next one was

1168
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 2: You're not lost if you can still see the truck?

1169
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,440
Speaker 2: And then his latest is should the tent be burning

1170
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 2: like that? And so all these books have you know,

1171
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 2: it's collections of his last page essays. So they're relatively short,

1172
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:49,439
Speaker 2: probably eight hundred word thy word twelve hundred word type

1173
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 2: essays that are, you know, funny observations on his hunting experiences,

1174
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 2: his fishing experiences, different adventures and things. And he's like

1175
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 2: the stumbling, bumbling, you know, making mistakes, doing stupid stuff

1176
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 2: out there in the woods, are in the water. That's

1177
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:09,919
Speaker 2: a lot of his stuff. But then he also sprinkles

1178
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 2: in the kind of stuff that John Girrak does, like

1179
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 2: profound observations, deep heartfelt insights, emotional truths. There's longer essays

1180
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 2: in these books too. He has feature stories in there

1181
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 2: as well, where you like, man he speaks about hunting

1182
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 2: or fishing as eloquently and as truthfully and is like

1183
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 2: down deep to the bones of the issue as anyone

1184
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 2: in the in modern literature at least really good writer.

1185
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 2: So like, don't let his humor overshadow the fact that

1186
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 2: he's very, very good at what he does, and like,

1187
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 2: there's so many fun, interesting adventures to read about. So

1188
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 2: there'll be some quick laughers, and then there'll be some

1189
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 2: that make you think. Then there'll be some fun adventures

1190
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 2: that are like super relatable because he takes you like,

1191
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 2: I'm looking at one right here where he goes on

1192
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 2: a trip to Anacoste Island and you and I were

1193
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 2: just talking about this the other day. So there's a

1194
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 2: big feature piece about him going on this hunt that's

1195
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 2: like an adventure hunt that so many people would like

1196
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 2: to do. But then his experience is that of the

1197
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 2: average hunter. He's not the expert David Petzel kind of guy, right,

1198
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 2: He's not Tony Peterson showing up and killing a big

1199
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:19,680
Speaker 2: giant buck like it's a piece of cake.

1200
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 3: Right.

1201
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 2: It's like it's like Mark Kenyan trying to show up

1202
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 2: and kill a deer, all sorts of stupid things going on,

1203
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 2: maybe make a miss or two. Uh, It's it's really

1204
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:33,479
Speaker 2: really good. His stuff's great, and it's it's a great

1205
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 2: mix of like the thinking man's writing about hunting and fishing,

1206
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:39,959
Speaker 2: mixed with like, hey, let's just have a good time

1207
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 2: and laugh and enjoy the thing too. So I highly

1208
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 2: recommend all three of those collections.

1209
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 3: You know what.

1210
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 4: One of his essays that I go back to a

1211
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 4: lot is Lilyfish, the one about his daughter who died

1212
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 4: of sids, his little baby girl, and how he goes

1213
01:03:58,440 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 4: fishing afterwards.

1214
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 3: That one is. That one is heavy, but just so

1215
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 3: well done.

1216
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 2: It's it's incredible that one person can write both sides

1217
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 2: of the emotional scale so well. He can write so

1218
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 2: seriously and emotionally about such a heavy topic like that,

1219
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 2: and then you can flip three pages later and there's

1220
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 2: something so silly and laugh out loud funny. His range

1221
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 2: is wild that he can.

1222
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 3: Do that well.

1223
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 4: Right, And I mean, this probably seems crazy, but humor

1224
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 4: writing might be the most difficult form. I mean to

1225
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 4: it's way up there it's way underappreciated. I think for

1226
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 4: somebody to be able to write something that actually makes

1227
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 4: you laugh out loud is very difficult. And to do

1228
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 4: it consistently, you know, and to do it over years,

1229
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 4: years and years, it'd be It's so that's a skill

1230
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 4: that is just very very few people have it.

1231
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's it's awfully enjoyable when you find

1232
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 2: someone who can do it.

1233
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 4: Yep, all right, you want another one from me, So

1234
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 4: I'm gonna I'm gonna throw this in here kind of

1235
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 4: on the same note that we've been talking about a

1236
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 4: lot of stuff. There's a fellow named Sidney Lee. Have

1237
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 4: you ever heard of his? Heard his name?

1238
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 2: I don't think so.

1239
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 4: So you you brought up that David Peterson collection of essays,

1240
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 4: and there there's I think this was in the best

1241
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 4: Hunting Stories ever told. But I ran across Sidney Lee.

1242
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 4: It was just a collection of essays and there was

1243
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 4: an essay in there called Mercy on Beeson's Partridge and

1244
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,760
Speaker 4: it was so good. In fact, I reached out to

1245
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 4: him and I was like, man, I've read tons of

1246
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 4: hunting stuff in my life, and I was like, this

1247
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 4: is some of the best wordsmith thing that I've ever seen,

1248
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 4: and we ended up going back and forth a little bit.

1249
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 4: Super good dude. I've read a bunch of his stuff.

1250
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 4: He's got a book called Hunting the Whole Way Home.

1251
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 4: Lives out in the northeast somewhere. I can't remember if

1252
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 4: he's in upstate New York or somewhere, but just kind

1253
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 4: of you know how like sometimes you know, Spotify or

1254
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 4: YouTube will feed you a song and you're just like,

1255
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 4: oh my god, this is this song is so bad

1256
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 4: ass and it's a band you've never heard of. They

1257
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 4: never you know, they didn't they didn't fly as high

1258
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 4: as like you think they should have. I kind of

1259
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 4: felt that way when I started reading Sydney Lee's stuff.

1260
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 4: I'm like, there's so much talent here, like so much,

1261
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 4: And I'm not like minimizing his career because he sold

1262
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 4: a lot of books and I think he did just fine.

1263
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 4: But when I read that Mercy on Beeston's Partridge, I

1264
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 4: was like, man, there is a skill level here that

1265
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 4: is so good. It's such a very uh, you know,

1266
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 4: kind of gear Rack style, kind of Harrison style where

1267
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:56,200
Speaker 4: it's like, you know, he's talking about grouse hunting or

1268
01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 4: something else, but it's really about the divorce or about

1269
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 4: the fight with the kids or whatever.

1270
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 2: So good Man, what was the collection that was a

1271
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 2: part of again the best Hunting Stories ever told?

1272
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think J Cassell put it together. I had it.

1273
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 4: I have it on my shelf somewhere, but I think

1274
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,680
Speaker 4: that was where it is there. That was where I

1275
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 4: ran across it. But I ended up getting all of

1276
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 4: his books and read them, and he's got some good stuff.

1277
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 2: I'll check that out.

1278
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 3: So a little under the radar, fellows, is.

1279
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:29,479
Speaker 2: That is that four or five from you?

1280
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 3: Now? I think that's five.

1281
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 4: I do have one more, but we can get to

1282
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:39,160
Speaker 4: that's a totally different one, all right.

1283
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 2: Mine is going to seem like I'm trying to cozy

1284
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:50,400
Speaker 2: up to our boss for promotion. But but do you

1285
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 2: do this?

1286
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 3: Mark? I knew it.

1287
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 2: I can't help it. Steve our our our founding father.

1288
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 2: Mister Ranella is one hell of a writer, and I

1289
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 2: can't help but recognize two of his books that are

1290
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 2: really three that I really really liked. But I was

1291
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 2: torn between a factially including Meat Eater, but the Meat

1292
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 2: Eater Book or American Buffalo, those are two of my

1293
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:18,599
Speaker 2: favorite books, really really really good. All the Steve Steve

1294
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,760
Speaker 2: stuff's great. I wish you would do more like this, though, honestly,

1295
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 2: I wish he'd stop doing the cookbooks and the activity

1296
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:27,720
Speaker 2: books and get back to some of this stuff, because

1297
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 2: I just selfishly so much enjoyed this kind of writing

1298
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 2: from him. But Meat Eater is so tied into hunting

1299
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 2: and fishing that I included this one. It's a series

1300
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:42,600
Speaker 2: of stories from his hunting and fishing life that, you know,

1301
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:45,559
Speaker 2: I think, though he doesn't explicitly say it, you know,

1302
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:50,600
Speaker 2: these different experiences taught him something about how hunting and

1303
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 2: fishing fits into his way of being a human. I

1304
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 2: think that might be how I described this book, and

1305
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 2: his wrestling with what that means, how to hunt, how

1306
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:02,599
Speaker 2: to fish, how to live on this landscape with wild

1307
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,639
Speaker 2: animals and eat them and do that in a way

1308
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:08,960
Speaker 2: that felt right to him. I think that's in a

1309
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 2: certain sense, what this book is about. And as we

1310
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 2: all know, Steve's a great writer. Great stories in here.

1311
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 2: And I started reading it back whenever it first came out,

1312
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:20,680
Speaker 2: and I read like the first chapter or two, and

1313
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 2: I actually got bored with it, Like the first chapter,

1314
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:26,519
Speaker 2: like squirrel hunting, and then like trapping otters or something,

1315
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:29,679
Speaker 2: and it just wasn't like, for whatever reason, I set

1316
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 2: it aside. And this goes back to my quitting books.

1317
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:34,760
Speaker 2: I guess I set it aside for a while and

1318
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 2: then somehow came back to it like a year later

1319
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 2: and picked it back up. It's like I really got

1320
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 2: to I really got to push through and just see.

1321
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 2: And then like as soon as he got past that,

1322
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 2: it was like, whoa, this is really really good. And

1323
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:48,879
Speaker 2: I think all that stuff was good in the beginning.

1324
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 2: I just wasn't as into squirrels, but it's very good

1325
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 2: as you go on. There's so many different moments in

1326
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 2: there where it just resonates with you and you're like, yes,

1327
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 2: like he's speaking truth to something that I know deep

1328
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 2: in my bones. So that's great. American Buffalo is another

1329
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 2: really really good one. If you haven't read that, If

1330
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 2: anyone's not read that, it's it's it's a natural history

1331
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:15,560
Speaker 2: of buffalo in America, but told through the story of

1332
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 2: him hunting a buffalo in Alaska. So it's a hell

1333
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:21,720
Speaker 2: of an adventure. You learn a lot. You know, some

1334
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:25,160
Speaker 2: of Steve's very best work there too. So not a

1335
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:28,800
Speaker 2: plug for me. It based uh books well that wasn't

1336
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 2: supposed to be, but I guess it is.

1337
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:31,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would.

1338
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 4: I would throw in here about how much I love

1339
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 4: Steve Ranilla too, just in case he might be given

1340
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 4: out extra raises. But he's temper to listen to this,

1341
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 4: That's true.

1342
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 3: Steve's not sitting down listening to a wire to hut.

1343
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, unfortunately not so.

1344
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:46,760
Speaker 3: Speaking of weird dudes, isn't it wild when you're around him?

1345
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:47,679
Speaker 5: How?

1346
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:49,000
Speaker 3: You know?

1347
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:51,880
Speaker 4: Like how when you and I are together, we talk

1348
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,200
Speaker 4: a lot about certain kinds of fishing, and we talk

1349
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:56,519
Speaker 4: a lot about white tails. We just do like it

1350
01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:58,960
Speaker 4: just comes up over and over and over again. When

1351
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:03,640
Speaker 4: you're with Steve. He's like that with squirrels. He's like

1352
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 4: he's like that with trapping. I mean when I was, uh,

1353
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 4: when I was with him in Oklahoma last year. You know,

1354
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 4: like how if it's October, you're gonna pull your phone

1355
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 4: out one hundred and twenty seven times a day to

1356
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 4: look at your your cell camera. You're like, see if

1357
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:21,639
Speaker 4: you got any pictures showing up. Steve's got, dude, Steve's

1358
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:26,720
Speaker 4: got cameras on like pond banks to like get fur

1359
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:28,680
Speaker 4: bearers going by, and he'll be oh, look at the

1360
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 4: raccoons or look at the otters or whatever, like the

1361
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:36,920
Speaker 4: same level of enthusiasm for something that's totally unrelatable to me.

1362
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 4: But it's like it's just a different thing for him,

1363
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 4: Like he would never do that with white tails, but

1364
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 4: he's like geeked out of his mind about his trap line.

1365
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. Man, he's got a different, different set of tastes

1366
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 2: and it's worked out for him, no doubt about that.

1367
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:55,760
Speaker 3: He's doing all right. I guess he is. Seems to

1368
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 3: be not struggling too much.

1369
01:11:57,760 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 2: Do you do you have a final book doing?

1370
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:04,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, dude, I threw one on here just because do

1371
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 4: you know who Jim Corbett is?

1372
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:07,120
Speaker 3: You ever? You know that name?

1373
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah? Right? What tigers?

1374
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 3: Right?

1375
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:15,640
Speaker 4: Tigers and leopards. So he's got the man eaters of

1376
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 4: like kums or something. No, that's a different one. Uh,

1377
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 4: the man eating lions Ofsavo or whatever that one is. Yeah,

1378
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:27,439
Speaker 4: Ghosts in the Darkness based off of that. But he

1379
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:30,800
Speaker 4: has one about a man eating leopard that he was

1380
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 4: tasked to go hunt called the man eating Leopard of Rudraprayag,

1381
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 4: which is a region of India, I guess. And you

1382
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:44,400
Speaker 4: want to talk about like badass people, right, this is

1383
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,639
Speaker 4: this is a long time ago, right, Like they're walking

1384
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:53,799
Speaker 4: between villages in India, chasing down stories of a leopard

1385
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:56,800
Speaker 4: that got so good at at killing people that it

1386
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 4: could like tip toe through a hut where a whole

1387
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 4: family be sleeping, grab one person in the corner, take

1388
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 4: him out, and nobody would wake up.

1389
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 3: And I don't remember the number.

1390
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:08,519
Speaker 4: I think it was like one hundred and sixty people

1391
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 4: or one hundred and sixty eight people. So this this

1392
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:16,040
Speaker 4: leopard went went deep and his job was like you

1393
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:19,360
Speaker 4: got to go find this thing and kill it. And

1394
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 4: it wasn't like he could get a text and they're like, hey,

1395
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:25,920
Speaker 4: grabbed a villager over here. It was like they would

1396
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:27,920
Speaker 4: be like, oh, it's a three day hike to go

1397
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:31,120
Speaker 4: to this village where we heard rumors that somebody saw

1398
01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:34,439
Speaker 4: a leopard. And it's like a very kind of like

1399
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 4: point A to B recount of hit, like like almost

1400
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:40,400
Speaker 4: like a hunting journal of just what he did.

1401
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 3: And it's like it left him.

1402
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 4: I read that I might have been in like middle

1403
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 4: school or high school, and it left a mark on me,

1404
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:54,719
Speaker 4: just as like how quickly things change, Like how different

1405
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 4: the world is now than it was one hundred years ago.

1406
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:01,479
Speaker 4: And just like to them, that was just like, okay, well,

1407
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:03,760
Speaker 4: the government needs me to go take care of this

1408
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:05,519
Speaker 4: problem that's eating a bunch of people.

1409
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:07,439
Speaker 3: And here's how I'm gonna go about do it. And

1410
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:09,920
Speaker 3: you look at it and it's like such.

1411
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:13,559
Speaker 4: A badass dude, and that some of his tiger stuff.

1412
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:16,479
Speaker 4: I mean, they would literally go out for a man

1413
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 4: eating tiger. This is this is a smart apex predator

1414
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:23,800
Speaker 4: that has figured out how to eat people real effectively.

1415
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:26,840
Speaker 4: And they go stake out a little goat and then

1416
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 4: build a tree stand out of sticks up in a

1417
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:32,680
Speaker 4: tree and sit there all night in the dark with

1418
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:37,200
Speaker 4: an open sighted rifle, hoping a tiger came into the little,

1419
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:39,920
Speaker 4: poor little goat down there. That's like, oh shit, this sucks,

1420
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 4: Like this is not where I wanted to be in life,

1421
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 4: over and over and over again. While you you know

1422
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:50,080
Speaker 4: that that man eater knows you're hunting it, he knows you,

1423
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:51,719
Speaker 4: he knows you're after him.

1424
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 2: And it's got a taste for man dude, So bad ass. Yeah,

1425
01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 2: that's some intense stuff. So there's a book, there's a

1426
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 2: couple books related to that that I got to throw

1427
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 2: out there. One is called No Beast So Fierce, and

1428
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:08,560
Speaker 2: that's a recent book came out in twenty twenty. The

1429
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 2: subtitle is the Terrifying True Story of the Champawatt Tiger,

1430
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 2: the deadliest animal in history. And so this tiger killed

1431
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 2: four eight, four hundred and thirty six people and it's

1432
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 2: the story of of of Jim Corbett going and hunting

1433
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:27,800
Speaker 2: this tiger and the whole thing. But it's kind of

1434
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:30,760
Speaker 2: a more modern take on it, which was very well

1435
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 2: done and super interesting. And then another one called The Tiger, right,

1436
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:39,920
Speaker 2: the Tiger, Yeah, The Tiger by John Valiant.

1437
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Yeah, that's yep.

1438
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 2: And that one's about a Siberian tiger out in Russia

1439
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:49,639
Speaker 2: and uh just I mean it talks all about kind

1440
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 2: of the natural history of the Siberian tiger and then

1441
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 2: how this thing happened and the the hunt for it

1442
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 2: and all sorts of stuff. Just that one was terrific too.

1443
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:00,360
Speaker 3: So that.

1444
01:16:02,479 --> 01:16:05,639
Speaker 4: The way that that ended, the way they finally get

1445
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:07,879
Speaker 4: that tiger is wild.

1446
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1447
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:13,880
Speaker 2: Definitely recommend those books. Okay, one last one. I won't

1448
01:16:14,120 --> 01:16:16,479
Speaker 2: take too long talking about this because I've recommended it

1449
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 2: a thousand times, but you know, if we're talking books

1450
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:23,240
Speaker 2: that hunters and anglers should read. Just as a reminder

1451
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 2: once again, everybody should read a Sand County Almanac by

1452
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:33,760
Speaker 2: Aldo Leopold. This is a great set of stories set

1453
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 2: in the natural world from one of our best observers

1454
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:40,920
Speaker 2: of wildlife in the natural world, and it ends with

1455
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:48,480
Speaker 2: a terrific kind of meditation on conservation, wilderness, hunting, developing

1456
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:52,920
Speaker 2: a responsibility for taking care of these things and being

1457
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 2: a part of this community. Not looking at wildlife and

1458
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:57,720
Speaker 2: wild places is like this other thing that we can

1459
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:00,679
Speaker 2: just use and take from all the time, instead beginning

1460
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:02,080
Speaker 2: to look at it as something that we are a

1461
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:05,000
Speaker 2: part of, that we share with and that we need

1462
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:07,800
Speaker 2: to steward if we want to be able to keep

1463
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:10,760
Speaker 2: doing these things we love. So that should be on

1464
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 2: everybody's bookshelf.

1465
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:13,840
Speaker 3: Isn't it amazing how good that book holds up?

1466
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:17,559
Speaker 2: Man, It's been around a long time and people still

1467
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 2: keep coming back to it. It's a man one of

1468
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:26,080
Speaker 2: the best for sure. So those are our ended up

1469
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:28,960
Speaker 2: being I think twelve, but our top ten or twelve

1470
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:32,479
Speaker 2: books that every hunter or angler should read. And man,

1471
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:34,400
Speaker 2: I love talking about books. I don't know if anybody

1472
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:35,760
Speaker 2: else does. But I really like it.

1473
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:39,200
Speaker 3: There might be eight or ten people who listen to

1474
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:40,000
Speaker 3: this all the way through.

1475
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:44,000
Speaker 2: You know, we're getting these We're getting these newsletters now

1476
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:48,280
Speaker 2: from our podcast team breaking down metrics like how well

1477
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 2: our topics are doing and how well like our episodes

1478
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 2: are doing. And I think I'm purposefully going the opposite

1479
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:56,640
Speaker 2: direction doing podcasts about books that no one's going to

1480
01:17:56,760 --> 01:17:57,120
Speaker 2: listen to.

1481
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:01,760
Speaker 4: Dude, But yeah, we're we're gonna get We've been joking

1482
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:04,200
Speaker 4: about this a lot, you know, kind of behind the scenes.

1483
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 4: We are gonna get a lot of pressure to put

1484
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:10,360
Speaker 4: out fifty two rut Hunting episodes a year, and it's

1485
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:11,479
Speaker 4: not gonna go well.

1486
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:15,080
Speaker 2: No, man, We're gonna We're gonna continue to chase our

1487
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 2: curiosities and our passions and the things that light us

1488
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:22,439
Speaker 2: on fire, truthfully, and I think in the end that

1489
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:25,320
Speaker 2: will make for the best product for people listening, regardless

1490
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:27,719
Speaker 2: of what the numbers tell us. Sometimes that's my belief, Tony.

1491
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 2: So we might get fired, we might get fired for it, But.

1492
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:33,840
Speaker 4: Dude, I was when we got that email. I was like,

1493
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:36,879
Speaker 4: are they really going to go through those Foundations episodes

1494
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:38,680
Speaker 4: and try to categorize those.

1495
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:40,800
Speaker 2: Like, well, This is the problem is that people are

1496
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 2: going to finally start listening to what you're putting out there, Tony.

1497
01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:45,679
Speaker 2: When they realize what you're putting out there into the world,

1498
01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 2: you might be in real trouble.

1499
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:48,680
Speaker 3: They're going to be.

1500
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:50,720
Speaker 4: Like, we don't know what to tell you to do,

1501
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:53,080
Speaker 4: because none of these make any sense to anyone.

1502
01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:55,280
Speaker 2: We've been we've been paying this guy to do what.

1503
01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:02,599
Speaker 2: And on that note, out you should go fishing and

1504
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:05,880
Speaker 2: I should get working on the next thing. All right,

1505
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 2: So thank you, Tony, good luck down in Florida, have

1506
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 2: a blast, and to everyone listening. I will get a

1507
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:17,040
Speaker 2: list of these books in the description for this podcast

1508
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:19,080
Speaker 2: so that you can find it if for some reason

1509
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:21,719
Speaker 2: you forgot one of them, and I will post about

1510
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 2: this on social media too, and i'd encourage you to

1511
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:26,320
Speaker 2: pick up one or two or three of these, give

1512
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:29,200
Speaker 2: them a read, do some thinking, going on an adventure

1513
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:32,000
Speaker 2: through the page. Man. I know it's easy to pull

1514
01:19:32,080 --> 01:19:34,519
Speaker 2: up YouTube these days, or watch something on TV, or

1515
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:38,320
Speaker 2: flip through TikTok or Instagram or whatever. But engaging with

1516
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:44,040
Speaker 2: a written work, something deeper, something more substantial, It's got

1517
01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:46,720
Speaker 2: a special power to it. There's something different about it.

1518
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,320
Speaker 2: If you historically have not been a reader, I would

1519
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 2: I would ask you to give it a chance, because

1520
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 2: books do something to you and provide an experience that

1521
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:59,960
Speaker 2: no other form of media does, and man, I think

1522
01:20:00,040 --> 01:20:04,360
Speaker 2: it's powerful. So thank you for listening, thanks for being here,

1523
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:09,640
Speaker 2: and stay wired to hunt M M M