1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. 2 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Odd Locks podcast. 3 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 2: I'm Jill Wisenthal and I'm Tracy Alloway. Tracy. Canadian elections 4 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 2: last night. 5 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 3: Yes, big event. I think a lot of people are 6 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 3: talking about it in the context of US politics. Right, 7 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 3: So we just saw Mark Karney and the Liberals win, 8 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 3: and in a lot of ways, I think people would 9 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 3: agree that Mark Carney's sort of the antithesis of Trump, right, 10 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 3: He's the sort of globalization Davos, former central banker guy. 11 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 3: And the funny thing is, or the slightly ironic thing 12 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 3: is it seems like Trump might have swung the election 13 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 3: in the direction of the girls. 14 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,639 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you go back like three months ago or 15 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 2: four months ago or something, and it just seemed guaranteed 16 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: that the Conservatives Pierre Pluliev was going to win. And 17 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: then Trump started talking about making Canada the fifty first state, 18 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 2: and suddenly fortunes turned very quickly. But that was just 19 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: a news hook. We're not really doing a Canadian politics 20 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: episode today, per se. 21 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:24,199 Speaker 3: We're doing something better. 22 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 2: We're doing something better. The real reason that we're doing 23 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 2: this episode, this just happened to be good timing for 24 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 2: the hook. The real reason we're doing this episode is 25 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: that several weeks ago, I was reading an article and 26 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: I saw a title about a man named the lentil 27 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 2: King of Saskatchewan, or not named but titled as such, 28 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 2: and I thought to myself, the lentil King of Saskatchewan 29 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: sounds like a great odd lots character, someone that we 30 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: should talk to to learn about a very specific business 31 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: and how it works. 32 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 3: The lentil King of Saskatchewan, the Sultan of split Peas, 33 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 3: the Grand Poopa of pulses, the Baron of beans, Monarch 34 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 3: of multi grains. I can keep going. 35 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: You did your prep. That's really good. Anyway, do we 36 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: have the lentil King of Saskatchewan on the podcast today 37 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 2: and we are going to really learn about how the 38 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 2: international pulses and grains trade actually work. What does it mean, 39 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 2: How does trading work with us, how does it work 40 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 2: with the rest of the world. How do you build 41 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:23,839 Speaker 2: that supply chain. 42 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 3: I'm also just incredibly surprised that Canada is such a 43 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 3: big player in this market. I think it exports like 44 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 3: a third of the world's lentil crop something like that. 45 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 3: That's kind of crazy. 46 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: That is a lot of lentils. But they have a 47 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: lot of land in Canada for this type of thing. 48 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 2: Not a ton of people, a lot of land. Anyway, 49 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 2: let's learn all about the lentil trade, the pulse trade, 50 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 2: the grain trade and so forth. 51 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,119 Speaker 3: Are we going to take the pulse of the pulse trade. 52 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: We're going to take the pulse of the pulse trade. 53 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: We are speaking with Marad al Katib. He is the 54 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: president and CEO of AGT Food and Ingredients, credited with 55 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 2: turn Saskatchewan into such a powerhouse of trade from a 56 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: lentil So, Marian, thank you so much for coming on odlot. 57 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 4: Well, thanks for having me. 58 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 2: What did you start with? What does the lentil King 59 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: of Saskatchewan do tell us about the business of an 60 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: AGT Food and ingredient. 61 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 3: Is it good to be the lentil King. 62 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 4: It's definitely been an interesting career for me to kind 63 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 4: of contribute to the transformation of agriculture out in Western Canada. So, 64 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 4: you know, coming up on twenty five years since I 65 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 4: made a decision to quit my job in government at 66 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 4: the Governor of Saskatchewan and move to the basement of 67 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 4: my house and drive the transformation of a cropping system that. 68 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 4: You know, when I was a kid growing up in 69 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 4: a little town called Davidson, Saskatchewan, we grew wheat and 70 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 4: we grew canola, and then the farmers had to leave 71 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 4: their soil to summer follow because the nitrogen fertilizer that 72 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 4: they used in canola and the oil seed was so 73 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 4: heavy that the soil needed to replenish naturally. The alternative 74 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 4: to that to plant and nitrogen fixing legume, so lentils, chickpeas, 75 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 4: peas beans. These crops actually fix nitrogen. They don't require 76 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 4: nitrogen fertilizer. And so, you know, that was my bet. 77 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 4: I mean, I was a twenty seven year old young 78 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 4: entrepreneur who kind of looked at this situation and said, 79 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 4: look agronomically, if we can grow these things, the world 80 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 4: demands them. They're protein crops. If we could intersect, you know, 81 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 4: taking our summer follow into protein and reaching global markets, 82 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 4: I could create a business. And that was kind of 83 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 4: the premise. So it's been quite exciting to build a 84 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 4: multi billion dollar company based round the Regina, Saskatchewan, you know, 85 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 4: to kind of reach the world, drive the Canadian trade, 86 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 4: and participate in growing and consolidating a global supply chain 87 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 4: in this business. 88 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 3: So how big a player is Canada nowadays in pulses 89 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 3: and grains and lentils and all those things I mentioned 90 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 3: earlier that I think it produces like a third of 91 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 3: the world's life until crop I did see an estimate 92 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 3: that said sixty percent of the world's lentil crops. I 93 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 3: went with the third trying to be conservative here, but 94 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 3: like give us some context around where Canada sits in 95 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 3: this space. 96 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, we would be more depend on the crop year, 97 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 4: but somewhere around fifty percent or more of the world trades. 98 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 4: So wow. You know, you have to recognize that the 99 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 4: traditional growth of these crops were in areas where they 100 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 4: consumed them, right Turkey, Middle East, India. India is the 101 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 4: biggest giant in this business, you know, with all of 102 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 4: the vegetarians. You know, you look at one point three 103 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 4: billion people, four hundred and fifty million vegetarians. Vegetable protein 104 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 4: is essential for the diet of countries, you know, in 105 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 4: the emerging market. So you know, they grow them and 106 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 4: they consume them. Well, what was missing was global supply 107 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 4: in nations that could grow them but not consume them, 108 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 4: but export them. And so that's where you know Canada 109 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 4: came into the play, Australia, the United States. Now we 110 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 4: have emerging origins like Extan, Russia, Ukraine. You know, the 111 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 4: the global consumption of these crops are over one hundred 112 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,559 Speaker 4: million tons. Now, you know, because you know you're talking 113 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 4: about the traditional crops that we consume. Let's let's talk 114 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 4: about the traditional diet of the world. Let's do it rice. 115 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 4: You know, rice is six percent protein, corn eight percent protein, 116 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 4: lentils twenty two percent protein, faba beans thirty four percent protein, 117 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 4: chickbas twenty six percent protein. I mean, these crops are 118 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 4: not in the same class when it comes to protein availability, 119 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 4: and the world is in a global protein deficit. So 120 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 4: you know, we can we always forget one thing. We 121 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 4: talk a lot about energy and energy security. We talk 122 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 4: about you know, oil and gas, but we have to 123 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 4: recognize that protein and you know, diets are human energy. 124 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 4: And so when we look at that there's a protein 125 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 4: deficit in the world, it's causing major socioeconomic problems. You know, 126 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 4: let's look at a country like India. Eighteen percent of 127 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 4: children in India are stunted due to protein deficiency. Right, 128 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 4: the world has you know, eight hundred billion people who 129 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 4: are malnourished on a daily basis, over two billion people 130 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 4: who are food insecure on a daily basis. So this 131 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 4: has become one of society's global challenges. Ten billion people 132 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 4: by twenty fifty quantifies it to a statistic where in 133 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 4: the next forty years we have to produce the same 134 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 4: amount of food that the world produced in the last 135 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 4: ten thousand years of civilization. Just wrap your head around that, 136 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 4: go back ten thousand years, go head forty years. You've 137 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 4: got to equal food production. And that's only if we 138 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 4: curb food waste and we actually can store the crops 139 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 4: that we harvest. So you know, when you look at it, 140 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 4: it's a global challenge. And land and water are not 141 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 4: being created, so those are the scarcest resources in the world. 142 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 4: And Canada is blessed with a northern hemisphere. You know 143 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 4: that ultimately is more resilient on climate change. We have 144 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 4: arable land and water, and we have the best farmers 145 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 4: in the world with technology and innovation driving sector. Those 146 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 4: are all recipes for what I would call a generational 147 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 4: economic driver for this country. 148 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 3: Joe, could you say that Canada has been blessed in 149 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 3: growing grains? Do you get it? 150 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: Okay? 151 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 2: I get it. 152 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 4: I'm I'm sure you've heard of. 153 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 2: All over over theres. I'm glad you brought that up. Actually, 154 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: though about the calorie as the original unit of energy, 155 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 2: that was important. You know, we've never had him on 156 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: the podcast, but vaklov Smil talks about that when he 157 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 2: talks about the history of energy and just these calculations 158 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 2: in the beginning, Okay, how many calories did a firmer 159 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 2: have to expend to produce this much land, and then 160 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: so forth, and how many calories were produced and so forth. 161 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: So just even thinking about it from that equation is 162 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 2: a very like sort of important, I think, Lens, why 163 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 2: don't you just describe the actual role of AGT foods. 164 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 2: Where do you sit in the supply chain and dist 165 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 2: Do you have farms yourself, do you work with farmers? 166 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 2: Do you contract with them? Like talk about where you 167 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 2: sit and how a lentil grown in Saskatchewan gets to 168 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 2: a consumer in say, India. 169 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 4: Well, the entire business plan was set up modern state 170 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 4: of the art processing infrastructure in the areas where we 171 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 4: grow these crops. So we contract directly with farmers. We 172 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 4: are the ones who transform their products into saleable you know, 173 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 4: human consumption products. So we own factories in Canada, the US, Australia, 174 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 4: South Africa, Turkey. So I started with one small, little 175 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 4: factory in Regina. We now have forty six manufacturing and 176 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 4: processing facilities and five continents around the world. I started 177 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 4: in the basement of my house. There's now thirty six 178 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 4: hundred employees. Wow. So you know what we do is 179 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 4: we take those crops, we clean them, we size them, 180 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 4: we peel them, we split them, we can them, we 181 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 4: package them, we put them out and we fraction them 182 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 4: into protein starts, f flowers. I mean, we put them 183 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 4: into food products. We do the full range of value adding. 184 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 4: And in the scale of our business now you know, 185 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 4: let's say around three point two billion in revenue this year, 186 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 4: we become a major global supply chain in this particular 187 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 4: segment of the business. In fact, if I look at 188 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 4: you know, containerized agricultural Shipments AGT would be among the 189 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 4: two or three largest containerized shippers of agriproducts in the 190 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 4: entire world. So you know, we shipped to one hundred 191 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 4: and ten countries actively. 192 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 2: And how does it get there? Like what is the okay, 193 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: So from a farmer in Saskatchewan, how many links are 194 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 2: there on that chain. 195 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,719 Speaker 4: So we'll take it into let's say a farmer in Eston, Saskatchewan, 196 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 4: We'll deliver to our location at Aston, Okay. We will 197 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 4: then take that grain. We'll put it into a railcar 198 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 4: that we own. So those owned railcars then go into 199 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 4: the CN rail system. They get transported to a port facility. 200 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 4: Let's say I just did one as an example, and 201 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 4: on May the sixth, we're going to ship a vessel 202 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 4: of lentils to Turkey. So those Eston farmers would have 203 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 4: filled the railcars. We're shipping it to thunder Bay. At 204 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 4: thunder Bay, we have an ocean terminal where we'll load 205 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 4: a vessel. That vessel will transport twenty one thousand tons 206 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 4: of lentils that will go to Turkey. They will be 207 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 4: offloaded in the port of Meerson, Turkey, which is in 208 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 4: the southern Mediterranean. We have factory seven kilometers for the port. 209 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 4: Will peel them, split them, polish them, package them, and 210 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 4: then they'll be shipped to Iraq. They'll be shipped into 211 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 4: the Gaza refugees. They'll be shipped into the Middle East 212 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 4: region and they'll be consumed locally in the entire region 213 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 4: on the food side. So you know where we play 214 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 4: is in the entire supply chain, taking it right from 215 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 4: the farmer right through to the distribution directly onto the 216 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 4: consumer shelf. And you know, that was the strategy that 217 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 4: we wanted to to build out. It gives us resiliency. 218 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 3: I was going to ask, is it normal for agricultural 219 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 3: company is to actually own their own transportation capital. You 220 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 3: mentioned train cars just then. That seems extremely vertically integrated. 221 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, actually I was definitely not, you know, the 222 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 4: normal thought and that In twenty fifteen, I decided to 223 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 4: build a transportation business, and so we bought six hundred 224 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 4: and fifty kilometers of short line railway. We bought the 225 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 4: Saskatchewan government grain car fleet. So when the Canadian Wheatboard 226 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 4: was dismantled, the Saskatchewan flagged grain cars, I bought them. 227 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 4: We bought thirteen locomotives. We set up our own transportation infrastructure, 228 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 4: linked it in a long term agreement to Cnrail, and 229 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 4: you know we're able to access it through ocean port infrastructure. 230 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 4: We actually took that business in twenty twenty five in January, 231 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 4: and we sold it for one hundred and ninety two 232 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 4: million dollars to an infrastructure fund in the United States, 233 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 4: and then we contracted them back to provide US service 234 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 4: for the next twenty year. So you are correct. We 235 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 4: actually built out a transportation infrastructure that didn't exist to 236 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 4: handle these kinds of commodities, and then we found a 237 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 4: partner to run it for the long term and it 238 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 4: gives us a competitive advantage to get our products to market. 239 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 2: I have a question. You know, you mentioned that the 240 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 2: only scarce resources are land and water. Can you talk 241 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 2: about yields on an acre or yields on a given 242 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: farm today versus when you got started in the industry, 243 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 2: and how what you've seen in terms of technology and 244 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,479 Speaker 2: productivity growth at the land level. 245 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 4: Massive massive transformation, So precision agriculture, digital infrastructure has transformed 246 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 4: the productivity of Canada. And you know, when I was 247 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 4: a kid growing up in that little village of Davidson, 248 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 4: twelve hundred people in the middle of Saskatchewan. You know, 249 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 4: as an immigrant Turkish family, the farmer would go out 250 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 4: and kick the dirt. He would put his hand into 251 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 4: the soil. He'd have his wife with him and say 252 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 4: what do you think should we go? And she'd say, yeah, 253 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,959 Speaker 4: let's go, and they would go and start seeding. Today, 254 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 4: we're soil sampling. We're analyzing the soil and the nitrogen 255 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 4: in the soil. There's precision weather stations that are measuring moisture. 256 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 4: We have zero minimum tillage where GPS systems are giving 257 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 4: the farmer the exact placement of seed fertilizer in a 258 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 4: single pass without breaking the soil using air channels. We're 259 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 4: putting the seed in a precision basis to maximize the yield, 260 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 4: to lower the amount of nitrogen fertilizer being used in 261 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 4: all crop rotations, which ultimately saves inputs and lowers the 262 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 4: carbon intensity of our agriculture. Our yield curves have been 263 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 4: massively increasing, you know, to where if I look at 264 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 4: the next decade ahead in Saskatchewan, I'm forecasting seven to 265 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 4: ten million additional tons of grain from the same amount 266 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 4: of acres that are being seated. You know, that is 267 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 4: a massive. 268 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 2: Wait, what's the baseline, what's the base? Seven to ten million? 269 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 2: On top of how many. 270 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 4: We're growing about thirty million tons, so we're gonna have 271 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 4: another seven to ten million. I mean, you're talking about 272 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 4: twenty to thirty percent yield increase over the next seven years. 273 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 4: I mean, when I chaired the National Strategy Table for 274 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 4: Agriculture and Food for the Government of Canada. We set 275 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 4: a target in twenty nineteen that the agriculture sector in 276 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 4: our country would grow from forty five billion to eighty 277 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 4: five billion of exports in a five year cycle, and 278 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 4: domestic agricultural output would grow from one hundred and twenty 279 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 4: billion to one hundred and forty five billion. And we 280 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 4: reached that target in three years. I mean, what sector 281 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 4: of our economy can deliver sixty five billion of growth 282 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 4: in three years. Agriculture did that in this country. So 283 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 4: the tangibility of that opportunity of global food insecurity, the 284 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 4: productivity of precision agriculture in our country, and you know, 285 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 4: the ability to get our products to market. You know, 286 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 4: this is the recipe that I believe is going to 287 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 4: be a big part of the government economic agenda going forward. So, 288 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 4: you know, we talk a lot about natural resources that 289 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 4: are in conflict in certain mindsets, whether it be oil 290 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 4: and gas or mining. There's very little controversy on the 291 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 4: growth of the natural resource sector in agriculture. So from 292 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 4: that perspective, I see that as being a key opportunity 293 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 4: for this country, you know, and one that I'm very 294 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 4: excited about for the next twenty years of my career. 295 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 3: So I take the point about yields having been improved. 296 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 3: But at the same time, there's a lot of talk 297 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 3: about soil exhaustion, right And one of the reasons this 298 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 3: is on my mind is because I was gardening over 299 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 3: the weekend on an old farm property and the soil 300 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 3: is just terrible. It's basically dust like, there's no tilth 301 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 3: I think I found one earthworm in like six hours 302 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 3: of digging. How big a problem is soil depletion? And 303 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 3: you touched on this earlier, But what role can lentils 304 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 3: and beans play in that? 305 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 4: Well? And then that's actually the key. The key is 306 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 4: is that farmers in Western Canada are now practicing a 307 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 4: sustainable three crop rotation. So one year they'll grow that 308 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 4: wheat like when I was a kid, the next year 309 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 4: they'll grow an oil seed like canola, and then the 310 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 4: year after that they'll plant the lagoome that will fix 311 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 4: the nitrogen. By using zero minimum tillage, we're conserving soil moisture, 312 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 4: we're managing pests and the health of the soil, and 313 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 4: we're actually using farming practices where without tilling we're returning 314 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 4: biomass into the soil. So from that perspective, when I 315 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 4: look at the sustainability of soil health, the farmers in 316 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 4: Western Canada have gotten And you know, that is something 317 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 4: that bothers me is people talk about how regenerative agriculture 318 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 4: is such a key part. Well, in Western Canada, we've 319 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 4: been doing regenerative agriculture for the last forty years. This 320 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:14,239 Speaker 4: is something that is actually foundational to the success of 321 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 4: the Western Canadian and I mean the Canadian agriculture sector 322 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 4: in general. So you know, I think that when I 323 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 4: look at soil depletion and soil health, it's about farmers 324 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 4: pushing the wrong rotations, growing crops on top of crops, 325 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 4: the same crops. You know, ultimately, if you don't rotate, 326 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 4: you have pests that multiply, you have diseases that ultimately 327 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 4: get resistant to any type of management. So, you know, 328 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 4: this kind of diversity of our agricultural system is one 329 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 4: that not only has to be celebrated, but it's actually 330 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 4: yielding that yield gain. So you know, not only is 331 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 4: our soil health at a peak, but it's also something 332 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 4: I want to be clear, we can't take for granted. 333 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 4: We have to be continuously innovating to make sure that 334 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 4: we maintain that. I mean, I say, the canola fields 335 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 4: of Saskatchewan are the same as the oil fields of 336 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 4: Saudi Arabia, only every year it replenishes naturally. So we 337 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 4: can take crops, we can produce renewable fuels, we can 338 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 4: take crops, extract protein and feed the world. But we 339 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 4: have to make sure foundationally that soil health is at 340 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 4: the forefront. And I think it is in our farmer's 341 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 4: minds and then the practices that they do. 342 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 2: So you know, you've described this global supply chain that 343 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 2: exists in the fact that you can get the lentil 344 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 2: product from a farmer in Saskatchewan all the way to 345 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:37,439 Speaker 2: a consumer in India or Iraq or Turkey, et cetera. Obviously, 346 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 2: we're having this conversation, at least on the US side, 347 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: with this turn against globalized supply chains, globalized trade and 348 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 2: so forth. Talk to us a little bit about how 349 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 2: you see the state of US Canada agg trade, or 350 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 2: give us the sort of the short history of the 351 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 2: various turns of the dial there and how some of 352 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 2: these conversations are affecting your business. 353 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 4: Look, I think We've got to recognize one thing. We 354 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 4: have a president in the United States today who's just 355 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,239 Speaker 4: very loud and using tariffs as the mechanism to not 356 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 4: only provoke conversation but to drive policy protectionists. Agricultural policies 357 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 4: in the United States are not something new, you know. 358 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 4: I always have to remind people that country of origin 359 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 4: labeling was a Barack Obama policy that you know, continued 360 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 4: through the Trump administration and into the Biden administration. So 361 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 4: you know, every government in the world, agriculture is the 362 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 4: most political business in the entire globe because farmers have 363 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 4: to be protected by governments that are elected. Yet, food 364 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 4: inflation and food security are paramount considerations in the health, wealth, 365 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 4: and security of every nation in the world. So when 366 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 4: we look at it, let's not forget one thing. When 367 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 4: a baby is hungry, they cry, When an eighteen year 368 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 4: old man is unemployed in hungry, they protest. So you know, 369 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 4: ultimately a big part of civil obedience in the world 370 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 4: is available food, and that growing food insecurity is one 371 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 4: that I think, you know, is going to be paramount. 372 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 4: So when I look at even US policy, look, food 373 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 4: security is a foundational part of US intelligence and foreign policy. 374 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 4: And so from that perspective, you know, I believe that 375 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 4: agricultural trade will have to be preserved as a part 376 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 4: of the overall policy framework. So you know, we're going 377 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 4: to see tariffs, We're going to see protectionist measures being 378 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 4: more prevalent in the world. But I do think that 379 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 4: ultimately food are going to be concessionary items. Governments are 380 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 4: going to allow them to flow. Governments will use tariffs 381 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 4: to protect their farmers when they need to at times 382 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 4: when they harvest their crops, but they need food available. 383 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 4: And you know the COVID post supply chain disruptions and 384 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 4: food lines and food inflation, and you know, food being 385 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 4: a big driver of that inflationary environment in the world 386 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 4: world is something that everybody recognizes can't continue. On the 387 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 4: US policy side, domestic agriculture in the US and Canada 388 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 4: are very integrated. So if I look at you know, 389 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 4: the pasta on the shelves of the US consumer come 390 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 4: largely from Durham wheat in Western Canada. The overall integration 391 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 4: of our livestock sectors, cropping sectors are there, and ultimately 392 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 4: I think we're going to see further integration. We're going 393 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 4: to see you know, getting over this current protectionist conflict. 394 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 4: Leyden dialogue to recognizing that the Americas integration and more 395 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 4: reliance on each other as nations in the Americas is 396 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 4: going to be part of economic prosperity. And you know, 397 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 4: I think that, you know, if I look at the 398 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 4: Trump administration, you know, kind of policy on Canada. We 399 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 4: have to just remind everybody very clearly to have comm heads. 400 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 4: Thirty one US states have Canada as their largest trading partner. 401 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 4: The ultimate availability of food in the United States is 402 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 4: you know, not completely reliant, but we certainly have a 403 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 4: big influence on food prices. And so you know, I'm 404 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 4: a very strong optimist that agriculture will continue its integration 405 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 4: and that you know, ultimately food and I believe energy 406 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 4: are going to be the two sectors. And the third 407 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 4: one from a Saskatchewan perspective is potash. I mean, eighty 408 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 4: percent of the potash in the United States, which is 409 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 4: a necessary nitrogen element you know, comes from Canadian minds. 410 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 4: So you know, from that perspective, you know, there's certain 411 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 4: sectors that I think are mutually beneficial that are going 412 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 4: to enjoy heightened access in some sort of resolution. 413 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 3: Okay, so agriculture might be special in one way or another. 414 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 3: But just to drill down a little bit into specifics, 415 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 3: if the US slaps tariffs on Canadian lentils, what is 416 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 3: the first thing that happens in your supply chain? And 417 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 3: I guess maybe we could go back in history and 418 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 3: talk a little bit about thee from India on lontals 419 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 3: because you have experience with this, right like you have 420 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 3: gone through this process, So what exactly happens. 421 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 4: Agriculture is no different than any other sector, except that 422 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 4: our markets are already a lot more diversified than you know, 423 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 4: other sectors. So you know, when I look at the 424 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 4: crop sectors in particular wheat, canola, and pulses, we do 425 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 4: have shipments into the US on a regular basis, but 426 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 4: it's still making up a relatively small percentage when you 427 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 4: look at it compared to other sectors' reliance on the US. 428 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 4: So you know, one of the key things to having 429 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 4: strength in a tariff or a trade protectionist environment is 430 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 4: to have alternative markets. Now, for US, I worry more 431 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,719 Speaker 4: about the reciprocal tariffs in places like China, India and 432 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 4: other large markets than I do only the US market. 433 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 4: I mean, it's one of the considerations. We want that resolution, 434 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 4: but you know what we do is we pivot. You know, 435 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 4: when we were facing the tariffs on the March deadline 436 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 4: than the April deadline, you know, as a company, we 437 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 4: already prepared for this. We have a North Dakota manufacturing 438 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 4: facility that was going to manufacture more for the US market. 439 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 4: We were going to switch our supply chain to reliance 440 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 4: on North Dakota and Montana, and we were going to 441 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 4: take the Western Canadian product and we were going to 442 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 4: go out to the Middle East into other markets in Asia. 443 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 4: We're going to put a height and focused on South America, 444 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 4: and we're going to ship into Europe. So you know, 445 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 4: that's where you have to be. And I think that 446 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 4: this is ultimately you know, my dialogues with Prime Minister 447 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 4: Carney prior to the election, of my dialogues after with 448 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 4: Prime Minister Carney are going to be trade diversification agenda 449 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 4: is not something that we can blink at, no matter 450 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 4: how quickly or how comprehensively. The resolution is with the US, 451 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 4: we need to finally execute trade diversification in this country. 452 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 4: We need to recognize that our industries have become overly reliant. 453 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 4: We've been complacent. You know what, this has to be 454 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 4: a wake up call to my colleagues in every industry 455 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 4: in this country. Wake up over reliance. Eggs in one 456 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 4: basket is a dangerous remedy for long term sustainable health 457 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 4: of your business. And you know, ultimately that's where we 458 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 4: have to go. We need bilateral trade agreements. We need 459 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 4: to resolve India and China as powerhouses that balance our 460 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 4: reliance on the US, and we need to monetize the 461 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 4: European Union trade agreement that we've already signed. We need 462 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 4: to ensure that we get relevance with these countries. And 463 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 4: agri food, energy and potash and uranium are four things 464 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 4: that get us relevance with these nations. We need to 465 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 4: parlay that into free trade agreements, bilateral exchange agreements, and 466 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 4: we need to get ourselves market access. 467 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 2: Obviously, shiating free trade or bilateral trade agreements with different 468 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: counterparts is an important element. There's also a physical element, right, 469 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 2: the quality of rail infrastructure, the quality of export terminal 470 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,959 Speaker 2: and I guess on the other side, import terminal infrastructure. 471 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 2: In the context of energy, we hear a lot about 472 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 2: this and are we building export terminals fast enough? And 473 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 2: is it cheap enough, is it economical? Talk to us 474 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 2: about the sort of like the physical things that need 475 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 2: to get built, as you put it, monetize these relationships, 476 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 2: and like I don't know in the US, I know 477 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 2: that building everything is crazy expensive these days. What does 478 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 2: the state of this physical trade infrastructure look like in 479 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 2: Canada right now? 480 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 4: We have we have to acknowledge that we've got, you know, 481 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 4: major challenges. I mean, we've got large geographic land base, 482 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 4: we have mountains between production regions in Western Canada and 483 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 4: the coast in Vancouver, and we have minus forty degree temperatures. 484 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 4: So you know, these are all constraints that we have 485 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 4: to live with. And you know, one of the things 486 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 4: you know, I've become a little bit known for in 487 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 4: this country is my adage that if I was Prime 488 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 4: Minister for one day, I would invest one hundred billion 489 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 4: dollars in trade infrastructure because that ultimately would pay dividends 490 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 4: for generations to come. So, you know, we need to 491 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 4: revive the gateway strategies. If I look back at the 492 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 4: two thousand and five twenty eleven period, the Asia Pacific 493 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 4: Gateway initiative is one of the most successful in recent times. 494 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 4: In Canada where you had you know, municipal governments, provincial governments, 495 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 4: private sector players, Class one railways, port authorities, poort infrastructure, 496 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 4: private sector players working on first mile and last mile, 497 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 4: and we made major progress on developing the Asia Pacific Gateway. 498 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 4: We need to acknowledge that we need to build a 499 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 4: trade infrastructure for thirty and forty and fifty years from now, 500 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 4: not just for thirty and forty and fifty weeks from now. 501 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 4: We need to relocate rail lines out of the center 502 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 4: of communities across our nation, to plan for development of 503 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 4: industrial and redissidential developments and allow for the trade infrastructure 504 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 4: to have room to scale. You know, as we continue 505 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 4: to build out. I mean Saskatchewan is a perfect example. 506 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 4: As I said, seven to ten million more tons of agri. 507 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 4: With the BHP investment of twelve billion dollars in potash 508 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 4: k Pluss mine expansion and the expansions that are on 509 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 4: for nutrient and mosaic, you have roughly about twelve million 510 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 4: additional tons of potash that will come online over the 511 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 4: next decade. And you know, if we get oil and 512 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,959 Speaker 4: pipelines and we get the dry bull commodities on rail, 513 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 4: we have some capacity, but We've got to think about 514 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 4: what we're going to be thirty years from now. If 515 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 4: we continue on these yield trends, we're going to reach 516 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 4: one hundred million tons of production one day. Today our 517 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 4: average is fifty five million tons in this country in Agrie. 518 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 4: So from that perspective, the economic benefit is there as well, 519 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 4: which ultimately, you know, funds the Canadian way of life, 520 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 4: social programs like healthcare, education, you know, the things that 521 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 4: we as Canadians value, you know, in terms of being 522 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 4: Canadian versus being living in another nation around the world. 523 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 4: So that's the opportunity. And trade infrastructure. I have a 524 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 4: level of optimism that, you know, our newly elected Liberal 525 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 4: government and frankly, it would have been the same if 526 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 4: the Conservatives were elected. Trade infrastructure is recognized as an 527 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 4: essential element of that trade diversification strategy. We focused a 528 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 4: lot on north south infrastructure and not that we should 529 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 4: diminish that because I think people got to recognize we're 530 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 4: not saying trade less with the US. We're saying trade 531 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 4: our growth with new countries. Over time, we will diversify. 532 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 4: Trade diversification couldnot happen in one day, one year, or 533 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 4: even in ten years, you know, we have created an 534 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 4: economy that's reliant over decades. We need to diversify over 535 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 4: the next decades. 536 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 3: So I know it's early days, but just on this point, 537 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 3: farming is clearly a very capital intensive business and you 538 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 3: want to be investing in trade, infrastructure and things like that. 539 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 3: Have you noticed any changes in capital availability post Trump's win? 540 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 3: So are people maybe they feel more cautious because there's 541 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 3: all this policy uncertainty, or maybe people are directing capital 542 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 3: away from the US and towards Canada. Now, I don't know, 543 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 3: have you noticed any shifts in the pattern? 544 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 4: I think that you know, certainly short term disruptions like this, 545 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 4: you know, cause capital to be nervous. You know, there's 546 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 4: no doubt about it. But you know, if I look 547 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 4: at you know my partners in agt are you Fairfax 548 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 4: Financial is a sixty percent owner of my company. So 549 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 4: prem Watts believed in the long term growth of an 550 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 4: agri food champion from Canada. Along with Omer's pension program. 551 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 4: You know, those two companies own seventy two percent of 552 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 4: my shares along with myself. And you know that kind 553 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 4: of capital source is recognizing canada role to build billions 554 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 4: of growth. You know, in this sector. In the trade 555 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 4: infrastructure side, I think that there's a recognition that, you know, 556 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 4: we're not building this only you know, to talk about, oh, 557 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 4: we got great infrastructure. There's a large economic benefit that 558 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 4: will come along with it that can allow the tax 559 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 4: base to be directed into the things that need to 560 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 4: be done in this country. So, you know, when I 561 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 4: look at that recognition again not looking with rose colored glasses, 562 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 4: I believe capital will flow. We need to do a 563 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 4: better job of figuring out how to monetize trade infrastructure 564 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 4: into projects that could be funded in more traditional project finance. 565 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 4: So you know, it's easy on a toll road, you 566 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 4: have an income stream and someone will finance that. How 567 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 4: do you finance the growth of Class one railway infrastructure 568 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 4: or bridges that go to the ports, or you know, 569 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 4: port infrastructure. You need to come up with economic models 570 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 4: that create cash. And I remind people that extra revenue 571 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 4: is ca U and cost savings in the supply chain 572 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 4: are also cash. So from that perspective, you know, I 573 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 4: think that we're going to see a capital attraction because 574 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 4: Canada has such a fundamental competitive advantage in the natural 575 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 4: resources sector that capital will come here get our products 576 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 4: to the places that demand them. 577 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 3: So speaking of cost savings in the supply chain, one 578 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 3: of the things we've seen since the tariff's announcement is 579 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 3: a slow down in global shipping, or a slow down 580 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 3: at least in shipping between China and the US. Does 581 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 3: that affect you at all, because I imagine, on the one hand, 582 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 3: maybe container rates start coming down, which would be good 583 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 3: for you. But on the other hand, my understanding is 584 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 3: that a lot of your produce is shipped via back hall. 585 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 3: So the ships come over carrying I don't know, toys 586 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 3: or whatever, and then they're loaded with all the agricultural 587 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 3: products and they're sent out into the world where ever 588 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 3: those are going to be processed or sold. So are 589 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,959 Speaker 3: you experiencing any changes in terms of the actual flow 590 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 3: of ships here. 591 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 4: That's a great question, and you are absolutely correct. The 592 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 4: trade flow in the world is dependent on balance. We 593 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 4: can only fill what comes in full, we send it 594 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,879 Speaker 4: back full. So you know, ultimately it has been an 595 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 4: Asia trade into North America and a North American trade 596 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 4: back out to Asia. So far, you know, the disruption 597 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 4: time period has been small enough that we haven't felt 598 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 4: it yet, but it's something we're watching very very closely. Now, 599 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,280 Speaker 4: what I think we have to recognize is that although 600 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,760 Speaker 4: President Trump would like to have manufacturing at the snap 601 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 4: of a finger in the US, it's going to take time. 602 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 4: If they do succeed in building out domestic capacity for 603 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 4: a number of these consumer goods that they want to produce, 604 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 4: and then we have to also be realistic that the 605 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 4: cost of manufacturing and the cost of production in the 606 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 4: US is going to be a lot higher on a 607 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 4: number of these items. So, you know, I still have 608 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 4: a view that you know, there will be some sort 609 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 4: of a balanced resolution where there will be some tariffs, 610 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 4: but there ultimately will still be production around the world 611 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 4: coming into North America. So you know, I think that 612 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,760 Speaker 4: you know, no matter what, if it doesn't come from China, 613 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 4: it may have to come from Korea, or it might 614 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 4: come from you know, Indonesia, or it may come from 615 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,280 Speaker 4: you know, another nation that is set up to manufacture. 616 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 4: You know, if you look at you know, Apple as 617 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,479 Speaker 4: an example as saying, now, well, we're going to stop 618 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 4: shipping out of China, We're going to start shipping out 619 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 4: of India, you know, there's ultimately going to be trade 620 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 4: flows that are going to come in. So we're watching 621 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 4: it carefully. We are definitely concerned, but we ultimately know 622 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 4: the consumption's not going away, so that consumption has to 623 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 4: be filled somehow, and ultimately it will ultimately be through 624 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 4: a combination long term of more domestic manufacturing. But you know, 625 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 4: at the end of the day, that's not going to 626 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 4: happen in the near term. Next five to seven years 627 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 4: are going to be transition years. And you know, again 628 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 4: our supply chains will have to also transition. If we 629 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 4: don't have container availability, what you'll see is bulk supply 630 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 4: chains getting bigger, like we're shipping those lentils in a 631 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 4: vassel to Turkey, and we'll have to be manufacturing elsewhere 632 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 4: as well, So we'll have to be a part of 633 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 4: global value chains as they settle in this new geopolitical 634 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 4: and trade regime in the world. 635 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 2: I just want to get back to the politics of 636 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 2: farming for a second, and you mentioned, you know, this 637 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 2: is one of the most politically sensitive topics because every 638 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 2: government feels some impulse to take care of their local farmers, 639 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 2: and also every citizen in the world of every country 640 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 2: eats and is sensitive to food inflation. And Tracy asked 641 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 2: about India earlier and they've had an on again, off 642 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,240 Speaker 2: again lentil important tariff. Can you talk a little bit 643 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 2: more about what you saw there specifically, like both I 644 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,800 Speaker 2: guess the domestic politics of lental tariffs and then again 645 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 2: like how it affected your business specifically as they've toggled 646 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 2: that on and off. 647 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 4: Look, you know, I've been a very vocal advocate over 648 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 4: the last couple of years to have the Canadian industry 649 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 4: recognize that the domestic agricultural policy of India is actually 650 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 4: a sensible policy that the Modi government has no choice 651 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 4: but to do it. You know, Ultimately, nations in the 652 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 4: world have to build local production to insulate themselves from 653 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 4: food security issues. So you know, the view that twenty 654 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 4: two million tons of production of pulses in India should 655 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 4: become thirty five million one day will still not even 656 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 4: keep pace with their domestic consumption. So there's still going 657 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 4: to be a net importer at that. So how can 658 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 4: we as a nation, you know, fault another nation from 659 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 4: trying to encourage local production. We've shifted our dialogue with 660 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 4: India to say, look, we are the reliable partner to 661 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 4: fill your gaps. We're going to see in countries like 662 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 4: India Turkey. Turkey has been doing this for decades from 663 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,760 Speaker 4: May until September of every year when they harvest their crop. 664 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 4: In June, Turkey has a lentil tariff on. So if 665 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 4: you're bringing in lentils from Canada, they put a tariff 666 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,800 Speaker 4: on to protect their domestic price of lentils for their farmers, 667 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 4: and September they take it off to protect against food inflation. 668 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 4: So these are the ways that tariffs are used to 669 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 4: build local prices farm receipts and yet not sacrifice the 670 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 4: domestic prices for affordability. India is going to do the 671 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,240 Speaker 4: same thing, and I think ultimately it's a sensible policy. 672 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 4: We've got to recognize that trade relationships are no longer 673 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,760 Speaker 4: going to be how do we drive by and sell. 674 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 4: Nations in the world are looking for two way trade 675 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 4: investment and innovate and technology development and transfer. So you know, 676 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 4: we as a company AGT are taking that view. We're 677 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 4: building a new processing plant near Mumbai where we're going 678 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 4: to be you know, taking Canadian materials. We're going to 679 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 4: be processing them in India and we're going to be 680 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 4: playing in the local market, and we're also going to 681 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 4: be exporting out of India to nations in Asia where 682 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 4: they have a competitive advantage. So you know, that's the 683 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 4: way that you build the long term trade relationship. You know, 684 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 4: recognizing that we can't sit here and say we want 685 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 4: terror free access to all markets around the world. We 686 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 4: have supply management in our country. We're restricting the access 687 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 4: to our agricultural sector for nations around the world. So 688 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 4: you know, what you want to be free traders, Let's 689 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 4: concentrate on the things that we need to do in 690 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 4: this country. Inner provincial trade barriers have to come down, 691 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 4: we have to open up our domestic agricultural markets, and 692 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 4: we have to recognize that we're going to have more 693 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,479 Speaker 4: to gain from free trade than we are to lose 694 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 4: from free trade. You know, I see this as a 695 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 4: transitional time where you know, ultimately, you know, deals are 696 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 4: going to get done and trade is going to happen. 697 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,759 Speaker 4: It has to because economies can't transition quick enough to 698 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 4: fill the gaps. That's what's ultimately going to drive it. 699 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 3: So everything you've outlined sounds very sensible. Boosting production in 700 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 3: North Dakota, setting up more bilateral trade relationships, maybe moving 701 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 3: some processing capacity elsewhere in the world. But it also 702 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 3: sounds very expensive and very difficult to do if you 703 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 3: are a smaller scale farmer. And I guess one of 704 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 3: the concerns with the rise in trade protectionism in general 705 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,000 Speaker 3: is that you are going to get even more consolidation 706 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 3: in agriculture. And we know that small scale farmers have 707 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 3: been suffering for a while. It's difficult to compete against 708 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 3: giants in the agricultural business. Is that going to become 709 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 3: even more of a trend in the current circumstances? Like 710 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 3: is scale going to be essential basically to surviving? 711 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 4: Scale today is essential to surviving. But that doesn't mean 712 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 4: that small and medium enterprises don't have a role to 713 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 4: play in scale. You know, I always counsel entrepreneurs. There 714 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 4: are you know, different ways in which to achieve scale. 715 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 4: You can build scale, you can buy scale, or you 716 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 4: can partner scale. Right, that's it. That's the key. And 717 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,400 Speaker 4: you know what we have not had enough of in 718 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 4: our economy in Canada. It's a recognition, you know. I 719 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 4: call it the dinner diner phenomenon. Do you want to 720 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,880 Speaker 4: be dinner or do you want to be a diner? 721 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 4: I want to be a diner. I want to eat 722 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 4: other businesses and grow my scale. I don't want to 723 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 4: build myself to be eaten by somebody else. So ultimately, 724 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,760 Speaker 4: you know, what we encourage is companies have to build 725 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,959 Speaker 4: their ourselves into a link in the global value chain. 726 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 4: They have to recognize what role they do play and 727 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,319 Speaker 4: they have to link themselves into a supply chain. That 728 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,400 Speaker 4: makes a lot of sense. You know, I was in 729 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 4: Turkey three days ago. In fact, I was there on 730 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,879 Speaker 4: the earthquake day in Istanbul, so scary day that day, 731 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 4: but you know, ultimately I was in Turkey meeting with 732 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,400 Speaker 4: you know, customers from Japan. You know, we've linked with 733 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,799 Speaker 4: the major Japanese trading houses on the development of our 734 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 4: pasta manufacturing business because the large Japanese trading houses have 735 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 4: strong linkages into the Japanese retail and the Asian distribution 736 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 4: side of things. So you know, we've recognized, even as 737 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 4: a relatively large company that we don't have the scale, 738 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,280 Speaker 4: and we're partnering with companies that have one hundred billion 739 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 4: dollars in revenue because we can't solve that distribution. Or 740 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 4: in India, we're in discussions with the large majors like 741 00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 4: Tata or Reliance or you know, those types willmar a 742 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,240 Speaker 4: Danny group. I mean, these are the type of companies 743 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 4: that dominate, you know, the distribution in those nations. So consolidation, 744 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 4: you know at the farm gate is already happening. I mean, 745 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,719 Speaker 4: can you can you imagine when I was a kid 746 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,000 Speaker 4: growing up again, you know, we as a family had 747 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,800 Speaker 4: four thousand acres of farmland. That was a big farm 748 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,799 Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy eight. Today, at four thousand acres, a 749 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:31,239 Speaker 4: family can't farm full time. You know, they ultimately will 750 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,360 Speaker 4: need to have a second job. You know. You basically 751 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 4: say today a mother, father, and a daughter who are 752 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 4: farming would have to be twelve thousand acres in order 753 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 4: to sustain a family. So from that perspective, you know, again, 754 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,080 Speaker 4: scale is actually part of our advantage in our agricultural system. 755 00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 4: And we're a low cost, high quality producer. We're competing 756 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,719 Speaker 4: against nations that have one acre and two acre and 757 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,400 Speaker 4: five acre farms that are very manual and not mechanized. 758 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 4: So ultimately, you know, we have to recognize. I don't 759 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 4: think it's a bad word. I think it's transition. But 760 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,000 Speaker 4: I do think that SMEs are key. Small and medium 761 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,200 Speaker 4: enterprises are key because they're nimble, they can innovate, they 762 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,840 Speaker 4: can deliver a product that is fitting. You know, sometimes 763 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 4: bigger companies aren't good at doing things like that. We're 764 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,719 Speaker 4: not nimble enough to do it. We need SMEs to 765 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 4: make us competitive. We've got to build the ecosystem and 766 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 4: the linkages. We haven't done that in this country. 767 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 2: I just have one last question, and it sort of 768 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,320 Speaker 2: relates to the productivity gains that you've seen over the 769 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,439 Speaker 2: years in farming from all kinds of like sensors and 770 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,200 Speaker 2: maybe there's drones involved and stuff like that, or lower 771 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 2: cost of tractors or whatever. There's obviously a lot of 772 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,759 Speaker 2: anxiety about how much technological products come from China. When 773 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,359 Speaker 2: you look at the farming business in Canada, how much 774 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 2: of that tech stack that drives productivity gains these days 775 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 2: comes from a Chinese tech basically, or Chinese manufacturing in 776 00:44:58,600 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 2: the form of farm equipment. 777 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,759 Speaker 4: I would say, you know, from my experience, there'd be 778 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,719 Speaker 4: a lot more reliance on the overall Asian manufacturing, not 779 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:08,879 Speaker 4: just China, and I think that's an advantage for us. 780 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,799 Speaker 4: You know, again, a lot of the sensors and things 781 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,280 Speaker 4: that we use are now manufactured in so many nations 782 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,600 Speaker 4: around the world that we can kind of dodge that. 783 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 4: They think the key is you know, on the manufacturing side. 784 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:22,920 Speaker 4: You know, a lot of the farm equipment is you know, 785 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 4: still very much dominated by US manufacturers, but a lot 786 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,719 Speaker 4: of the core technologies, like zero minimum tillage. You know, 787 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 4: the center of manufacturing for that technology is Western Canada. 788 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 4: We're the ones who developed it, you know, companies like 789 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,440 Speaker 4: you know Borgo Industries and you know Flexico Oil and 790 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,440 Speaker 4: Morris Industries. These are industries that were here for the 791 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,560 Speaker 4: last four decades, you know, developing out these zero minimum 792 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 4: tillage seating systems. All we've done is add on the 793 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,880 Speaker 4: technology to that, GPS, sensors, you know, decision support systems, 794 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,279 Speaker 4: the big guys, the John Deere's the case ih. I mean, 795 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 4: these are again large global companies who are ultimately driving it. 796 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,239 Speaker 4: Data is something that is going to be a key 797 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 4: advantage for us. I don't see, you know, vulnerability. Maybe 798 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,759 Speaker 4: I'm overstating. Yes, there's always vulnerability when you have a 799 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,120 Speaker 4: tech stack, but you know, ultimately we're using so many 800 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,399 Speaker 4: different technologies and we're stacking them together that I think 801 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,120 Speaker 4: that ultimately we have something that is not only unique, 802 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,800 Speaker 4: but it's something that you can only implement a scale. 803 00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 4: You can't digitize one acre farms. It's not cost viable. 804 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 4: You know, we have single farm families, you know in 805 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:42,279 Speaker 4: west central Saskatchewan, who's seating three hundred thousand acres of 806 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:47,240 Speaker 4: farmland this year? Three hundred thousand acres. You know, these 807 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,040 Speaker 4: farm families have you know, two generations, there are four 808 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,000 Speaker 4: generations on the farm and they have full time IT 809 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,279 Speaker 4: departments on their farm. So these are not you know, 810 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,719 Speaker 4: corporate farms in the in the mind. Don't forget. We 811 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,680 Speaker 4: still have foreign ownership guidelines that prevent foreign ownership of 812 00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,879 Speaker 4: farmland and Saskatchewan as an example. So these are still 813 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,840 Speaker 4: family farms. They've just scaled to be something that is 814 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:12,400 Speaker 4: very large and very competitive. 815 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,200 Speaker 2: Rad Al Katib the Lentil King of Saskatchewan. 816 00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:20,120 Speaker 3: The leg you Mary Lentil King Legumary of Saskatchewan with 817 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,040 Speaker 3: his pulse on the pulses. 818 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,080 Speaker 2: That was a fantastic I learned a lot in that conversation. 819 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,200 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on hotlines. 820 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:28,799 Speaker 4: Thank you. 821 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:43,799 Speaker 2: That was a lot of fun. There are a lot 822 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,600 Speaker 2: of very interesting strands to pull out from that conversation. 823 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,240 Speaker 2: I do think like the politics of food is definitely 824 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,840 Speaker 2: one of them. And this idea that every government basically 825 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,200 Speaker 2: around the world is trying to balance the distinct demands 826 00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,520 Speaker 2: of their local constituency. Food security would which can kind 827 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 2: of only be ensured by having some sort of local production, 828 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,000 Speaker 2: and then the fact that everyone has to eat. 829 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,880 Speaker 3: Are there any countries or governments out there that don't 830 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,080 Speaker 3: sort of idealize agriculture. 831 00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question. I don't know, Like in Singapore, 832 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 2: did they I don't know. Yes, there's got to be. 833 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,520 Speaker 3: Something Singapore, I guess some Middle East countries, but even there, 834 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,040 Speaker 3: I know they're doing stuff with like hydroponics. Anyway, a 835 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,680 Speaker 3: couple things that stood out to me. So Murrad's comment 836 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:33,239 Speaker 3: about trade being a balance, especially in global shipping, I 837 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,640 Speaker 3: think is really important. So even if Canada wasn't directly 838 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,040 Speaker 3: affected by something like US tariffs, there would still be 839 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 3: that knock on effect from ships being re routed around 840 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,600 Speaker 3: the world. And this is something that we saw in 841 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,440 Speaker 3: the pandemic of course, you know, like ships coming over 842 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,520 Speaker 3: full and then returning empty and that being a pretty 843 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,680 Speaker 3: big problem for a bunch of companies and American consumers. 844 00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,400 Speaker 3: So that's one thing, and then the other thing is 845 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,239 Speaker 3: the consolidation aspect. It just seems to me like the 846 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,759 Speaker 3: only I mean, we said it right, the only way 847 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,799 Speaker 3: to survive, especially in a world where trade restrictions are 848 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,600 Speaker 3: becoming more popular, really is scale, and it's going to 849 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,440 Speaker 3: be near impossible, I think for the smaller guys to compete. 850 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,239 Speaker 2: I'm glad you asked that question about the back hal 851 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,319 Speaker 2: because this is one of the things that it's been 852 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,520 Speaker 2: wearring me. It's like, you know, people talk about the 853 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,560 Speaker 2: sort of tariffs and from a sort of strictly fiscal standpoint, 854 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,600 Speaker 2: like this is going to raise the cost of X, 855 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:33,640 Speaker 2: and so there's going to be less but as we 856 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,960 Speaker 2: recently saw it, like there's another knock on effect. And 857 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,000 Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought that up about the fact that 858 00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,040 Speaker 2: the ships just might not be there. Yeah, in place, 859 00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,839 Speaker 2: there are certain goods that are intermediate goods in some way, 860 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,640 Speaker 2: and so that's how you get these like ripple out 861 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,640 Speaker 2: disruptions beyond just oh this is lost product for me 862 00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,480 Speaker 2: or this is lost income for you. I also liked 863 00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,359 Speaker 2: how Amurad like sort of you know, talked about the 864 00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,960 Speaker 2: calorie is the original form of energy, which I just 865 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,759 Speaker 2: fine to be really important in this idea that the 866 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:06,800 Speaker 2: productivity in the ag space is pretty extraordinary, and the 867 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,319 Speaker 2: fact that they're still more yield expected. And then the 868 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,520 Speaker 2: question is do you have the rail capacity, do you 869 00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:17,319 Speaker 2: have the export terminal capacity to actually monetize these agreements 870 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:18,280 Speaker 2: and increased yield. 871 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,759 Speaker 3: I'm just gonna say, lentils are amazing. They're great, and 872 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 3: I am really really hungry, and I'm crazy like a 873 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:26,560 Speaker 3: bunch of. 874 00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,319 Speaker 2: Doll Yes, I know, I haven't eaten today, and so 875 00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,759 Speaker 2: I've had the exact say thought during the entire conversation. 876 00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,000 Speaker 3: So good and good for the soil, good for the soil. 877 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:36,319 Speaker 3: All right, shall we leave it there? 878 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:37,120 Speaker 2: Let's leave it there. 879 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,800 Speaker 3: This has been another episode of the Odd Thoughts podcast. 880 00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,400 Speaker 3: I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway. 881 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,120 Speaker 2: And I'm Joe isn't Thal. You can follow me at 882 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:49,440 Speaker 2: the Stalwart. Follow our guest He's at marad agt Foods. 883 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,000 Speaker 2: Follow our producers Kerman Rodriguez at Kerman armand dash Ol 884 00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,520 Speaker 2: Bennett at Dashbot and Kilbrooks at kle Brooks. For more 885 00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,560 Speaker 2: Oddlogs content, go to bloomberg dot com slash Oddlogs. We 886 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,120 Speaker 2: have all of our episodes and a daily newsletter, and 887 00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,800 Speaker 2: you can chat about all of these topics, including supply 888 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,239 Speaker 2: chains twenty four to seven in our discord Discord dot 889 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:09,439 Speaker 2: gg slash. 890 00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,960 Speaker 3: Hot lots and if you enjoy all lots, If you 891 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,280 Speaker 3: like it when we speak to the Lentil King of Saskatchewan, 892 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,160 Speaker 3: then please leave us a positive review on your favorite 893 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,799 Speaker 3: podcast platform. And remember, if you are a Bloomberg subscriber, 894 00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 3: you can listen to all of our episodes absolutely ad free. 895 00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,360 Speaker 3: All you need to do is find the Bloomberg channel 896 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,320 Speaker 3: on Apple Podcasts and follow the instructions there. Thanks for listening.