Speaker 1: Wind Down and radio podcast. Mike's getting over the man
Speaker 1: cold right now. I don't want to hear it. What
Speaker 1: do you mean, he's um, it's just so funny. I
Speaker 1: just I love it. I love a man cold. I
Speaker 1: find it. I don't know, I just find it funny
Speaker 1: now because you realize we're human and that we're all
Speaker 1: not We're not all superman. If you never get sick,
Speaker 1: that's all. It's just a cold, though, it's just a
Speaker 1: head cold. I'll have a forty hours and I'm good.
Speaker 1: It'll be another six months till I'm sick again. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: next Tuesday or tomorrow, you're back. I think I have
Speaker 1: a cold. I mean, it's just hard though, because you
Speaker 1: don't know if it's I mean, I don't think you
Speaker 1: have the rhona, because you'd have other symptoms. Correct, you
Speaker 1: don't have a fever, you don't have I mean, you
Speaker 1: have a cough, but it's not like a dry cough.
Speaker 1: I feel like exactly like I do when I have
Speaker 1: any other cold. And I'm chasing him with the thermometer
Speaker 1: gun the lasts. But I'm still here. I'm alive, and
Speaker 1: you've been kicking. But this morning with the kids and
Speaker 1: working and let me sleep into like nine. It was awesome.
Speaker 1: You're welcome, So I appreciate that. Of course, you know,
Speaker 1: mom's gotta do what we gotta do. You know that
Speaker 1: you do. Um, But while you were down and out,
Speaker 1: while you were laying in bed, Uh, you check my
Speaker 1: phone for a little while because I got to catch
Speaker 1: up on Well, you don't have social media, right, so
Speaker 1: I see what's going on in the world besides the news,
Speaker 1: so fill us in. So I saw this thing that was, um,
Speaker 1: kind of some beef between Megan Fox and her I
Speaker 1: guess ex green And it's interesting because, basically, I'll sum
Speaker 1: it up for you. Around Halloween, he posted a picture
Speaker 1: of him and one of their kids on socials. But
Speaker 1: they had had the agreement that they weren't going to
Speaker 1: post their children on social media, and they have three
Speaker 1: kids together, so they made that mutual agreement. And now
Speaker 1: that they're separated or not together, he apparently is quote
Speaker 1: unquote flaunting it around. And even some of Brian's other
Speaker 1: exes came to Megan's defense, like Marcel wasn't that's his
Speaker 1: ex wife Vanessa? Yes, her? And then Courtney basically that, um,
Speaker 1: he's done this in the past. Where he tries to
Speaker 1: flaunt that he's this awesome dad, not saying that he's not,
Speaker 1: but he tries to put this persona on that Megan's
Speaker 1: an absent mother because she didn't post anything and he's
Speaker 1: just like super perfect dad, always engaging with the kids
Speaker 1: because he posted on socials, but the agreement was to
Speaker 1: not post correct so she basically so Megan was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we agreed on this, and you feel the need to
Speaker 1: just flaunt our children around to make yourself feel better, right,
Speaker 1: and especially now you pulled it up for me the
Speaker 1: photo that he posted. She said, it's not hard to
Speaker 1: crop them out, and that's true, like he could have easily,
Speaker 1: like there's enough space to crop out. I think. So
Speaker 1: I have another celebrity couple just got divorced. I can't
Speaker 1: say the name. I don't want to. But she had
Speaker 1: told me their thing was and she would be fine
Speaker 1: to show the face of the kids, but he was
Speaker 1: really against it. So ever since they've been together and
Speaker 1: had kids, she covers them up with like a face
Speaker 1: or like a you know, like a strawberry or whatever,
Speaker 1: and so you know, and that's in in or now
Speaker 1: to worse, and she still does it. Because that's the agreement.
Speaker 1: That's what and that's where I feel like I'm on, Like,
Speaker 1: I guess team Megan, because when you make that kind
Speaker 1: of agreement, especially when it's around your kids, whether you're
Speaker 1: together or divorced, that should be something if don't do
Speaker 1: it unless you have a prior conversation like hey, I
Speaker 1: really want to post this really cute picture like doom
Speaker 1: or just something. You know, um, but if the agreements
Speaker 1: in place, I mean, just like my friend could easily
Speaker 1: be like, well, we're divorced now I can do whatever
Speaker 1: I want. Like, no, the agreement is like there's a
Speaker 1: reason why Megan and this other guy you know on
Speaker 1: my friend's side doesn't want their kids faces being seen.
Speaker 1: Some people just don't look like that for sure, which
Speaker 1: is it's their decision. I think it's important whatever the
Speaker 1: decision is, as long as people are in agreement, that
Speaker 1: should be respected. I think it's just hard though, when
Speaker 1: because I'm sure, I mean, I don't know outsider here.
Speaker 1: You know, when you go through a divorce, it's really hard,
Speaker 1: you know. I think about like the Army Hammer situation
Speaker 1: where you know his you still has the kids in
Speaker 1: the I don't know where it's at I don't know
Speaker 1: if you saw that story or not, um, but basically there,
Speaker 1: I guess they're kind of having like a little ugly
Speaker 1: match about you know, he wants to see the kids
Speaker 1: and the kids are down in some island. I can't
Speaker 1: remember what it is, um, But I just I can't
Speaker 1: imagine those feelings when you're divorced. I mean especially, I mean, shoot,
Speaker 1: we talked about in the book, like I'm you know,
Speaker 1: when we were separated, I'm like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: see Jolie until it's on my time, and that's not
Speaker 1: healthy for the kids. But you're just so angry that
Speaker 1: it like it makes sense that you might not be
Speaker 1: acting in the best frame of mind and you forget
Speaker 1: that you need to put your kids first, like you
Speaker 1: might forget that, like you're you feel like you're putting
Speaker 1: your kids first. But but it's also you're so angry
Speaker 1: at your partner too. Yeah, And what's no matter who
Speaker 1: you are, what's the easiest way to take a jab
Speaker 1: of your partner is the kids using the kids, which
Speaker 1: is so messed up. But I mean, shoot, I did it.
Speaker 1: I mean I was like, no, you can't see Jolly
Speaker 1: until I'm done with dancing with the stars. You know
Speaker 1: what's coming up for me right now? Which is interesting,
Speaker 1: like because we're very open and I was, I don't
Speaker 1: I wasn't completely comfortable at the beginning, but I became
Speaker 1: comfortable with it. I'm like scared um with like sharing
Speaker 1: the kids so much, but then I was like, you
Speaker 1: know what, I was on board with it, and we
Speaker 1: never really uh, I never discussed my reserve reservations around it.
Speaker 1: But I'm all for it and that's our decision as
Speaker 1: a couple. But I'm just playing out of scenario that
Speaker 1: God forbid we got divorced, right And of course you
Speaker 1: think about that, of course you, But I know, I'm
Speaker 1: just like, what's coming up. I'm like me if that
Speaker 1: was a situation, because I'm not on social media and
Speaker 1: I wouldn't anticip getting on social media even if we did. Oh,
Speaker 1: I so disagree. You would go on Instagram the day?
Speaker 1: How much you want about right now? Let's let's there's
Speaker 1: just you would I know which photo you would use?
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, the photo that you literally won't look
Speaker 1: at because you think I'm too handsome in it. It's
Speaker 1: just sits and it makes you upset. Literally you can't
Speaker 1: look at it because you're like, you're too handsome in
Speaker 1: this picture. But I know exactly the photo you would use,
Speaker 1: and you would be on there just to spite me.
Speaker 1: Here's here because you can get spiteful, so can I.
Speaker 1: But because you're so much more interactive on there. A
Speaker 1: big part of why I wouldn't, it's because I would
Speaker 1: try to separate myself from your life in regards to
Speaker 1: everything else you have going on besides the kids. So
Speaker 1: seeing my kids on there as much as you know
Speaker 1: we post about them now, that would crush me, Like
Speaker 1: I don't actually if it's like with another man, not
Speaker 1: to like throw like, yeah, that would be a big thing.
Speaker 1: But I mean, hey, it's like you can't all. But
Speaker 1: then that's where I would then fight with you to
Speaker 1: be like, it's one thing to have the agreement in
Speaker 1: the very beginning, but you can't just be like, well,
Speaker 1: now we're divorced and no, I agree, I agree with you, know,
Speaker 1: like you can't share the kids. No, I agree with you.
Speaker 1: That's I'm not saying it's it's I'm in the right
Speaker 1: to like demand that, but it's just what's coming up
Speaker 1: for me. I'm like, man, I would have a really
Speaker 1: hard time because I don't have social because I'm not
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be posting things with the kids like and
Speaker 1: so I make up that it would be because you,
Speaker 1: I feel like you're missing that time, and so it's
Speaker 1: not even it's not even about you. It's about the
Speaker 1: kids and having the ability to see the time I'm
Speaker 1: physically missing with crush me m. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's just an it's just an interesting thought that came
Speaker 1: into my head. And feeling that was like I wouldn't
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, I mean, shoot, I would hate it.
Speaker 1: I mean I would do everything in my power to
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I think in the beginning,
Speaker 1: like I always dream about, like I said, we've talked
Speaker 1: about before, is having that really healthy relationship. But I
Speaker 1: think unfortunately where you know, the army Hammers and the
Speaker 1: you know, um Brian and Megan, it's just there's so
Speaker 1: much bitterness and hostility that, like you said, unfortunately the
Speaker 1: kids get thrown into it and that and that's really unfortunate.
Speaker 1: But hopefully, you know, I know a lot of parents
Speaker 1: that have been able to do a co parenting therapy
Speaker 1: after divorce, and it's really helpful. For them because they
Speaker 1: can talk about all these things like, hey, can you
Speaker 1: just for the first few months, can you not show
Speaker 1: as much? Or can we stick to this agreement? And
Speaker 1: I think having that like discussion could be really helpful
Speaker 1: for people, you know, that are going through this. But
Speaker 1: let's take a break and let's we're gonna talk a
Speaker 1: little bit more about kids. Oh yeah, Dance Moms coming up.
Speaker 1: All right, So we're both very excited. And I'm a
Speaker 1: fan by association. You got me into this show because
Speaker 1: you watched it NonStop, so literally I had no choice.
Speaker 1: And then once I started investing time, I was all in.
Speaker 1: And to legendary moms, believe you didn't run out of
Speaker 1: the room. He had some things to say, but he's
Speaker 1: still stay. A couple of times I think I did, Melissa,
Speaker 1: but then I was just all in. Um, but we
Speaker 1: have the wonderful Melissa Gasni and Holly Hatcher Fraser with
Speaker 1: us Dance mom My Dance Moms, So oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: of course, so I um, I was able to meet
Speaker 1: the cast of Dance Moms, and of course I was
Speaker 1: so excited to meet the girls because they were just
Speaker 1: precious and you know, they're so sweet but I was
Speaker 1: so excited to meet the moms, and you too are
Speaker 1: just like so sweet, so kind, and I just I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I watched that show from from
Speaker 1: the very beginning because my best friend Katherine was a
Speaker 1: huge fan, and and I just I love I mean,
Speaker 1: I love the drama. I loved the dancing, um the
Speaker 1: Abbey side of things. I was I was so torn
Speaker 1: at times. And then you know, Michael would come in
Speaker 1: because he's got the football background and he's like, it's
Speaker 1: like a football coach. Hey, sometimes you need tough love,
Speaker 1: I know, But would you want your daughter to have
Speaker 1: that tough Not a chance, not a chance. But I mean,
Speaker 1: I will ask I'll ask this first question, Holly Melissa,
Speaker 1: do you think aspects of that and you don't have
Speaker 1: to personalize it towards towards Abbey, but just aspects of
Speaker 1: that environment have helped your daughters and your children, you know,
Speaker 1: flourish in their young adult life. I will say this.
Speaker 1: I am a mom of two boys and a girl.
Speaker 1: My oldest son is a scene year in college, and
Speaker 1: he played football all throughout high school and he went
Speaker 1: to Division one to play football. So I am a
Speaker 1: mom who I'm a dance mom, but I'm also a
Speaker 1: football mom too, and I would say there are things
Speaker 1: that I would see from me a dance experience that
Speaker 1: I had never seen on a football field. And I
Speaker 1: mean they were repealed state champions. I'm like, they're tough
Speaker 1: football players something they played well for the state of Pennsylvania. So,
Speaker 1: and they're all boys Catholic high school football Southwest Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: You have thousands of people coming out on Friday nights.
Speaker 1: We re live football dealer Nation here, even on a
Speaker 1: high school level. So I'm used big time, big times.
Speaker 1: So and I also as a mom, I believe in
Speaker 1: tough love. I'm an educator. I believe in having high
Speaker 1: standards for students and for kids, and they rise to
Speaker 1: that level. I think the difference is, I don't want
Speaker 1: to do anything that would be demeaning, and as long
Speaker 1: as that grow, it is coming from out of love
Speaker 1: and you're holding high standards and encouragement and you're not
Speaker 1: doing something that's so negative that it kills the spirit
Speaker 1: or is truly cruel. That's the difference. I think that
Speaker 1: those are things. But one of the greatest things that
Speaker 1: came from the show for me, for for Nia watching
Speaker 1: her grow up, she learned how to deal with difficult people.
Speaker 1: And you will work with a lot of difficult people
Speaker 1: in life, so she had to learn that at an
Speaker 1: early age. So for me, she knows how to deal
Speaker 1: with some really tough people and whether it's a work environment,
Speaker 1: whether it's a friend's experience. So that's been invaluable me, Lissa,
Speaker 1: what about you? Well for my kids, UM, I mean
Speaker 1: I appreciate the opportunity to get that they had absolutely. Um.
Speaker 1: It crushed mackenzie spirit for years. UM. And I'm so
Speaker 1: glad that she has such a great sister and great
Speaker 1: sisters because these girls are they love each other so much.
Speaker 1: And what's great is like Nia, Maddie Mackenzie are so close.
Speaker 1: I actually went to Nia's house just me the other night.
Speaker 1: We ordered I watched the election and we just literally
Speaker 1: hung out and we wore matching outfits. By the way. Um. Crazy,
Speaker 1: But my Mackenzie, definitely, her spirit was Um. She hated dance,
Speaker 1: hated it. Um, she had no self esteem. Um. Her
Speaker 1: sister really helped her through that, and UM, tough love
Speaker 1: is one thing, but that's not love in my opinion.
Speaker 1: But even Maddie, like Maddie was the favorite. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what I was kind of curious on when you talked
Speaker 1: about Mackenzie, you know, because Maddie was the quote unquote favorite.
Speaker 1: She was Abby's you know, starn you know, and put
Speaker 1: so much of her energy into her. Do you think
Speaker 1: that had that played then a roll to in Mackenzie's
Speaker 1: you know, not wanting to to dance because she's like,
Speaker 1: I can never be as good as my sister, even
Speaker 1: though she was great in her own right now, I
Speaker 1: don't think she really cared honestly. She she didn't even
Speaker 1: care about dance. Honestly. She'd be like, yeah, honestly, she
Speaker 1: could care less. She would just do her solo and
Speaker 1: really didn't care honestly, which was a good thing. And
Speaker 1: she's still kind of like that. She's so different, they're
Speaker 1: total opposite, but they balanced each other so well. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, Mackenzie just had her spirit crushed and now
Speaker 1: she has so much confidence. It took her years. Um,
Speaker 1: but she's great. You know, she's a tough, tough kid.
Speaker 1: She sticks up for her friends too. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: it's crazy. So as so proud of her. I love
Speaker 1: that because she's so sweet and they're both. I mean,
Speaker 1: both of your girls are just you know, are amazing,
Speaker 1: Like I love Nia, I love Maddie, I love Mackenzie.
Speaker 1: Like they're they're also kind and what they put out
Speaker 1: in the universe and on their Instagram, I'm in socials
Speaker 1: and they're just there. You can tell that you know
Speaker 1: they were raised right. And I feel like as a
Speaker 1: mom my, my biggest fear is my is Jolie, because
Speaker 1: I don't know how to like sometimes I'll say this,
Speaker 1: the one fear that I have is that I'm always
Speaker 1: going to be like, don't do this? Why are you
Speaker 1: doing this? And I'm like almost like nitpicking at her
Speaker 1: sometimes and I can sense myself being like and she's
Speaker 1: only you know, she's gonna be five. But I can
Speaker 1: still sense where I'm like, you know, do this right
Speaker 1: or do and and so I worry about that, And
Speaker 1: then I also weary on the other side how to
Speaker 1: be a better mom in the area of when she
Speaker 1: does get disappointed, Like I'm so scared, like how to
Speaker 1: you know, help her? Do I help her cry through it?
Speaker 1: Do I do? I just let her grieve any loss
Speaker 1: that she deals with the friendship or or a bully
Speaker 1: at school or I mean, like I just I'm so,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not havening't been there yet as
Speaker 1: a mother, so I would love some insight from me
Speaker 1: on how to deal with kind of both of those
Speaker 1: areas in the arena. I wish I could go back
Speaker 1: a little bit, because I remember the girls being really
Speaker 1: young and coming home and making sure they did their
Speaker 1: homework perfect, and like Maddie, if she had an erase
Speaker 1: mark on her page, she would start all over. And
Speaker 1: I feel like that was maybe me. I don't know,
Speaker 1: because Kenzie was never like that, but um, I wish
Speaker 1: I didn't care so much about little things when the
Speaker 1: girls were little, because who cares if their project was perfect?
Speaker 1: Like Mackenzie would have a project in school and Maddie
Speaker 1: would say, oh, no, I'm doing it for you, it
Speaker 1: has to be perfect, and I'm like, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: You know. I wish I can go back and just
Speaker 1: let them be more kids and not worry about the
Speaker 1: small stuff about my kitchen being cleaned or the laundry
Speaker 1: being done. I wish I would have never cared about
Speaker 1: that stuff. That's my biggest regret, as you know, a
Speaker 1: young you when the girls were younger yea, and Melissa's right.
Speaker 1: When you're a mom at any stage, there is no
Speaker 1: rule book for being a mom. So I have found
Speaker 1: that as my kids are getting older and my oldest
Speaker 1: will be twenty two this month, is that the needs
Speaker 1: and my role as a mother will change and things
Speaker 1: which I thought when he was five, which were stuck
Speaker 1: to the biggest issues I'll ever have to face as
Speaker 1: a mother have changed as he gets older and he
Speaker 1: still needs me, but that it's just different. And one
Speaker 1: of the things that I learned as a as a
Speaker 1: parent and even as an educator to when parents would
Speaker 1: come to me because they get word you don't ever
Speaker 1: want to see a child they'll fault, get hurt like
Speaker 1: that is like the best crushing firm letter, who never
Speaker 1: want to see your child or any parents get see
Speaker 1: your child hurt. But part of the issues that you
Speaker 1: can't protect your children from those emotions and those experiences.
Speaker 1: They have to live them, they have to grow through them.
Speaker 1: So they learned how to do that on their own,
Speaker 1: because that's how they become young adults and people and
Speaker 1: have to learn how to manage those expectations and experiences.
Speaker 1: So you can't live their lives for them. And I'm
Speaker 1: a big believer in the blessing of a skink me.
Speaker 1: I don't want them to come up a broken bone,
Speaker 1: but you know a skin me, you'll love of a skinny.
Speaker 1: So there are things that will happen in life, and
Speaker 1: you're just like, all right, what you learned from that experience,
Speaker 1: how can we make sure that doesn't happen again. It hurts,
Speaker 1: but you will survive. And so there's a great book
Speaker 1: called Blessing of a Skinney by Wendy mogul I was
Speaker 1: highly recommended. But just that philosophy of life, I just
Speaker 1: that's my mantra. I love that. And I think that
Speaker 1: the kids need you more later in life than they
Speaker 1: do in the beginning. I mean, they need you absolutely,
Speaker 1: you need to do everything for them, but I think
Speaker 1: that you just don't have to sweat the small stuff
Speaker 1: and they're younger, because when they're older, I feel that
Speaker 1: they need you so much more. Through breakups and you know,
Speaker 1: first loves is oh it's weight, Oh my gosh, damn.
Speaker 1: Like I'm just I'm already like, oh, I remember my
Speaker 1: first breakup? Yeah I didn't. I just I don't want
Speaker 1: her to I don't want her heart to hurt, like
Speaker 1: I might go kill the kid. You know, I might
Speaker 1: show up at his door with the you know, Holly,
Speaker 1: and I can help you through that one because to
Speaker 1: her and I've helped each other through it, Yes, for
Speaker 1: both our kids, and it was not harnessed. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: I cried like my heart was broken, Like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be like give me your phone and I'm gonna just
Speaker 1: being a war with like the kids. I'll tell you what,
Speaker 1: Julian Jason's significant others, they don't have to worry about
Speaker 1: being scared to me. Once they get to know, they're
Speaker 1: going to be terrified. Like have you seen Jolie's mom,
Speaker 1: She is terrified. I'm gonna be Gemma on Sons of Anarchy. Well,
Speaker 1: it's funny. I had a sign on my door. M
Speaker 1: went because we I'm the kid house. Everybody comes to
Speaker 1: my house, and it said no drugs, no vapes, no sex,
Speaker 1: no alcohol, just fun. And it was like on my
Speaker 1: door and I wrote it to Marker and the kids
Speaker 1: are scared of me, which is good. I'm happy with that.
Speaker 1: Let me ask both of you this because this is
Speaker 1: a point of not contention between Jenna and I but
Speaker 1: we have a little bit different of a philosophy. Right,
Speaker 1: So both of you have these you know, wonderful children
Speaker 1: and also these daughters that have been in the limelight
Speaker 1: for some years now and are blossoming continuing to blossom
Speaker 1: in you know, areas with attention and limelight and notoriety.
Speaker 1: How do you what's like your perspective on traditional education
Speaker 1: and also allowing your kids to follow their dreams because
Speaker 1: I'm I come from a conservative family, Like you know,
Speaker 1: they had the same job for thirty years. You go
Speaker 1: to college, you get your degree, you put you know,
Speaker 1: blue collar, and Janna left home at eighteen and went
Speaker 1: and chased your dreams. Now I chase my dreams too,
Speaker 1: but football you can do all those things while you
Speaker 1: chase it. Like, how do you like, We're just I
Speaker 1: don't know how we're gonna do it because jann is
Speaker 1: just you know, she's like, well, if they don't want
Speaker 1: to go to college, they don't have to go to college.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, they at least need to go
Speaker 1: to college and set themselves up. And so how do
Speaker 1: you guys deal with that? With the with these you know,
Speaker 1: amazing kids and kind of the path that they're on.
Speaker 1: It's an interesting thing for me, and it's I'm biased
Speaker 1: because I'm an educator. My doctorate is from PEN. I
Speaker 1: have a doctor in educational leadership. I was a principal,
Speaker 1: So I very biased on this subject. That being said,
Speaker 1: I surprised myself in many ways as especially with me
Speaker 1: and my boys are all traditional UM there. They went
Speaker 1: to UM. They were private educated. They Catholic school high
Speaker 1: school for them, all boys, which has been great, wonderful experience.
Speaker 1: Never UM a question what they were going on a college.
Speaker 1: But my husband also he has his master's treat We
Speaker 1: believe in education. Education is highly highly important in our family.
Speaker 1: That being said, it also is important in our family
Speaker 1: that they don't think that they need a degree to
Speaker 1: be educated. My wort for me, having a purposeful and
Speaker 1: meaningful life means more to me than anything else. Being
Speaker 1: a positive member of a community. It is more important
Speaker 1: than having a piece of paper and being a jerk.
Speaker 1: So I want you to be educated about light and
Speaker 1: how you can make the world a better place and
Speaker 1: how do you contribute and be a good citizen in
Speaker 1: the world. So for Nia who was in middle school
Speaker 1: and when the school, when the show moved to l A.
Speaker 1: We were faced with a problem. She couldn't stay in
Speaker 1: regular school. She was up and she was reading with
Speaker 1: school up to that point. And I was debating how
Speaker 1: I was going to handle this, and my my brother
Speaker 1: was like, Holly, who's a principle as well? Like your principal,
Speaker 1: you have overseen the curriculm hundreds of kids. Truly, you
Speaker 1: can educate one. And I never thought of it that
Speaker 1: way before. Yes, a good point. I can do that.
Speaker 1: I didn't teach Nia, but I could make sure that
Speaker 1: she understood the value of education. So when it came
Speaker 1: time today, senior year in high school, and she just
Speaker 1: said she wasn't sure if she was gonna go to college,
Speaker 1: I was able to support that, and I was like,
Speaker 1: that's fine. I value that. That's her decision. It's college
Speaker 1: is not for everyone. It doesn't make her any lesson
Speaker 1: from person, and if she decides to go there later on,
Speaker 1: so be it. I don't. She has to live her
Speaker 1: life her way, and so we gave her that up.
Speaker 1: But you need to figure out. She was going to
Speaker 1: a gap year, and she applied to all the University
Speaker 1: of California schools. She got in to u C L
Speaker 1: a and surprised us all and she decided to go
Speaker 1: right who's there now? So you just kind of have
Speaker 1: to left your kids figure it out. And I think
Speaker 1: if you get them, if you if you're too intense,
Speaker 1: they kind of shut down and they have a passionate
Speaker 1: and a dream. I totally hear that, Holly. I think
Speaker 1: like when you were saying that, I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: she's going to be the one that decides it, and
Speaker 1: we have to just be supporting her in whichever way.
Speaker 1: We can always encourage her, but I think let her
Speaker 1: let her shine in whatever area and then she'll know,
Speaker 1: you know, absolutely. With my kids, I am you know.
Speaker 1: They've been homeschooled since third and fourth grade. And my
Speaker 1: husband retired early. Um. He retired when Kenzie was twelve.
Speaker 1: He promised, he said, when you're twelve, I'll be retired.
Speaker 1: So he was their school and he gets the curriculum
Speaker 1: from the actual high school. And does you know actual school,
Speaker 1: it's not online. Um. Maddie graduated last year. She is eighteen. UM,
Speaker 1: Kenzie's sixteen, and she's going to be graduating a whole
Speaker 1: year early, which is fabulous. Um. And then she's going
Speaker 1: to take online classes. Um, Maddie is not at this
Speaker 1: time because she's really pursuing her movie career. In her career,
Speaker 1: and she said, maybe I'll go, maybe I won't, but
Speaker 1: I'm going to let her decide whatever she wants to
Speaker 1: do as well. Um, I did not go to college.
Speaker 1: I grew up in a Catholic house that was very conservative,
Speaker 1: and you know, I always wanted to be a mother,
Speaker 1: That's what I wanted to do. I regret not going
Speaker 1: to college sometimes just because I can say I went
Speaker 1: to college. And then I have my friend Holly there
Speaker 1: who makes me feel smart all the time, and I like,
Speaker 1: I go to her for advice all the time and
Speaker 1: help and and she's like, you could do this. You
Speaker 1: know it's in there, you know. I mean, she's very encouraging.
Speaker 1: And you have to be around people that want to
Speaker 1: encourage you. And that's what we teach our kids. You
Speaker 1: need to be with people that are going to lift
Speaker 1: you up and encourage you. I love that. Okay, I
Speaker 1: want to talk about the podcast, but first I just
Speaker 1: want to say I want to ask what is the
Speaker 1: biggest conflict in your marriages around the kids, and how
Speaker 1: have you been able to handle it? Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think the biggest one. I think my
Speaker 1: husband thinks I I coddled the too much in the
Speaker 1: sense that I want to give them everything they want.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like every month. But he's like, he's like,
Speaker 1: they want a dog that's coming to you. I'm like,
Speaker 1: that was made, that wasn't making, but I want a
Speaker 1: dog to you anyway. Okay, here here's a dog. Well,
Speaker 1: in my marriage, my my husband is not their dad,
Speaker 1: but he is basically their dad because he's raised them
Speaker 1: since they've been little. Um, and he is Natsberg. I'm
Speaker 1: in California. He left in June. We haven't seen him
Speaker 1: since June because of Corona. He doesn't want to be here. Um,
Speaker 1: but he's always supportive. He does zoo with Mackenzie for school.
Speaker 1: UM and I have to tell you he supports the
Speaker 1: girls a hundred percent. And you know it's the animal
Speaker 1: thing as well. You know we got funnies, we got
Speaker 1: a dog during Corona. And he's like, I'm not taking
Speaker 1: care of these animals, but it's probably about animals. That's great.
Speaker 1: What do you think what do you think ours is
Speaker 1: right now? With the kids. Huh. I mean we're pretty
Speaker 1: on the same page with I feel like we had
Speaker 1: one last week though with what you feel that sometimes
Speaker 1: you can like I take you for granted with the
Speaker 1: schedule and the kids and just assuming like you're here
Speaker 1: you can watch the kids. That would be the biggest thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, if I don't have something on the calendar,
Speaker 1: like scheduled, then I feel like the default is I
Speaker 1: have something scheduled, Mike doesn't, he's available to watch kids,
Speaker 1: when really I had that time to something else. In
Speaker 1: my mind, I was gonna do, you know, and so
Speaker 1: that yeah, I mean that might be the biggest thing,
Speaker 1: but that's just communication. I like live and die by
Speaker 1: the calendar. Like I feel like I'm like, hey, I
Speaker 1: have to go to the bath Usually I have to
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom at three, So hey, Mike's going
Speaker 1: to the bathroom at three, just so you know, honey.
Speaker 1: I mean, hey, it's helpful calendar too. It's real helpful
Speaker 1: to know. Um. Okay, so your podcast because Mom said so, Um,
Speaker 1: you guys launched it October eight. Um, you've got some
Speaker 1: amazing guests that have already been on. But um, tell
Speaker 1: us tell our listeners what because Mom said so? Podcast
Speaker 1: is all about even though I kind of know, well,
Speaker 1: it's just basically you know about mom's mom issues and
Speaker 1: it's not it's we're not doing anything like deep and dark,
Speaker 1: but we want to give advice. We want it to
Speaker 1: be fun. Um. We have fan questions, which is my
Speaker 1: favorite thing. Um, And it's just being together as moms
Speaker 1: who kind of our kids grew up together, so it's
Speaker 1: just our experiences together. Yeah exactly. It's like people know
Speaker 1: us from the dance world, but for us, it's like
Speaker 1: we talk about everything. We talk about life, womanhood, so
Speaker 1: to your lifestyles and everything in between. So that leaves
Speaker 1: a lot of conversations to be had, Like we can
Speaker 1: find just about anything to have a top topic for
Speaker 1: the week, and it's fun we have, like Melissa says,
Speaker 1: we love the fan questions. If you'd love to hear
Speaker 1: like what fans are, what they want to know from us, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: you want to know our opinion. Great, we can always
Speaker 1: give an opinion story. Um. And then also something that
Speaker 1: I think Alisson who came up with this idea of
Speaker 1: the mom brag and the mom fail, and it's fun
Speaker 1: that we get to share that every week with each
Speaker 1: other because sometimes there are stories that we haven't heard
Speaker 1: from each other about, like okay, once your mom feel
Speaker 1: for the week, and then it's a good chuckle or
Speaker 1: the brag where kind of support each other. It's it's
Speaker 1: it's fun the podcast feeling and you have and you
Speaker 1: have Kelly and Jill from Dance Moms as well on there, right,
Speaker 1: so you got for you just plenty of content there
Speaker 1: to talk about. The podcast flies by and it's all nice.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. We do it for like four hours
Speaker 1: and we're like, wait, the first time that we got together, um,
Speaker 1: last year we were gaining hours. We just eight for
Speaker 1: ten hours and talking to show. It's fun to be
Speaker 1: with Kelly and Jail because you know, we had not
Speaker 1: been together, all four of us for years. And then like, well,
Speaker 1: can you just pick up where you left off? Yes,
Speaker 1: yes we can. And the energy is good and we
Speaker 1: laugh and there's so many things and we just have
Speaker 1: different perspectives of our worlds and our situations and topics
Speaker 1: that we've covered, and so we're really different as far
Speaker 1: as like our personalities and that what binds this is
Speaker 1: this this the show Dance Moms, but we don't really
Speaker 1: talk about that. We talked about so much more about
Speaker 1: what does it mean to be a woman, and we
Speaker 1: find out that a lot of things were wrestling when
Speaker 1: they were all kind of like at a certain age
Speaker 1: of kids at different ages. It's been interesting for sure. Well,
Speaker 1: that's cool that you guys are doing that and giving
Speaker 1: your kids and especially your daughters. You know, you guys
Speaker 1: are such great role models for them in the way
Speaker 1: you've handled conflict and controversy over the careers that you
Speaker 1: guys have had, you know, a dance moms and carrying
Speaker 1: that into what you're doing on the podcast. So I
Speaker 1: commend you guys for that because just from I have
Speaker 1: a front row seat to seeing how hard it is
Speaker 1: to be to be a mom. And Jana is the
Speaker 1: best mom I know. And so even you guys talking
Speaker 1: about mom bragging, mom fail, it's I see the response
Speaker 1: that Janna gets when she talks about mom field because
Speaker 1: it is you guys, moms have so much more pressure
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, than than the dads. You really do,
Speaker 1: you know, It's it's really hard unless you're an absent father.
Speaker 1: It's hard to be a bad dad, you know, and
Speaker 1: but your moms it's just like the weight of it
Speaker 1: is is on you guys for decision making and everything else.
Speaker 1: And so I commend you guys for talking openly about
Speaker 1: that because there is such scrutiny out there of of
Speaker 1: of you know, being judged as a mother and everything.
Speaker 1: So again, props to you guys for being do amazing
Speaker 1: ladies to do great role models. Oh thanks, guys. I mean,
Speaker 1: and I think I'd love to see like, yeah, you
Speaker 1: read your kids and you play with them, you do
Speaker 1: craft and that it's just you're I can tell what
Speaker 1: an amazing mom you are. Thank you. So I really
Speaker 1: need to hear that today. Well, you see, that's that's
Speaker 1: the point of exactly that, Like you need to hear
Speaker 1: the who tells you that you like you just live
Speaker 1: your life on a daily fasis and you kind of
Speaker 1: parent in a vacuum and it's kind of nice to
Speaker 1: get that affirmation or just to feel like you're not alone. Absolutely, Well,
Speaker 1: I now know that because Mom said so will be
Speaker 1: my favorite podcast that I'm going to be listening to.
Speaker 1: So um, I'm super excited the gangs all back together
Speaker 1: for the Because mom said to a podcast, you all
Speaker 1: listen to it, Um, even if you're not a mom.
Speaker 1: It's just nice to take some notes for the future
Speaker 1: and have some girl fun chats. Um all right, Melissa Holly,
Speaker 1: thank you guys so much for coming on Wine Down.
Speaker 1: We so appreciate that. Thank you for having just so
Speaker 1: much fun chatting on both of you. Thanks for having us. Okay, bye,
Speaker 1: love you guys, by love you, by love to come
Speaker 1: to Nashville. Oh We'll be there. Okay, perfect, Okay, bye, guys.
Speaker 1: That was so fun. I I just I love talking
Speaker 1: about mom things, you know, and so I'm excited to
Speaker 1: listen to their new podcast for sure. Yeah, and again,
Speaker 1: I'm just impressed that because I know the moms have
Speaker 1: dealt with a lot of judgment scrutiny over the years
Speaker 1: with their roles on the show. So the fact that
Speaker 1: they're just able to you know, carry their weight and
Speaker 1: just just trudged through all the crap. They're able to
Speaker 1: just again be good role models for their kids and
Speaker 1: just let it roll off them. You know. It's so
Speaker 1: funny because even when I take Jolia to dance, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I can see how they make a show out of this,
Speaker 1: because you always have like one kind of louder mom dance.
Speaker 1: You always kind of have one that's like sits on
Speaker 1: her phone and but like stairs and secretly judges someone,
Speaker 1: and then you have the other mom that's just like
Speaker 1: best try to be best friends with everybody. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then you have you know. So it's just of course
Speaker 1: it works, you know. And just hearing kind of the
Speaker 1: drama that Katherine always you know, she's a cheer mom,
Speaker 1: so I like hear the drama from like cheer mom's side,
Speaker 1: and it's just like, I wonder where I'm going to
Speaker 1: fit it. I can't wait to find out You're going
Speaker 1: to be all the above. Let's take a break and
Speaker 1: uh come back and talk some more. Oh goody? Can
Speaker 1: we Okay? So I got a d M from I
Speaker 1: Want to lead It? No, I didn't, okay. It was
Speaker 1: on the wind Down Podcast Instagram. We got d M
Speaker 1: a question and I thought it would be an interesting
Speaker 1: topic to bring up. Hey, Janna, I was wondering if
Speaker 1: you and Mike could give me some advice. My husband
Speaker 1: and I are fighting over some things he said to
Speaker 1: me that really hurt my feelings, and when I tried
Speaker 1: working it out with him last night, he told me
Speaker 1: he didn't have anything to say. He has been giving
Speaker 1: me the silent treatment. Now he's not the type of
Speaker 1: guy that likes to express his feelings. So what do
Speaker 1: I do? I use the tools in your book plus
Speaker 1: to try and express my feelings in a calm and
Speaker 1: healthy way, but he's not willing to work it out.
Speaker 1: Could this be shame? Could this be his shame for
Speaker 1: hurting me? Yes? Next? What else it got for me? Done?
Speaker 1: That was funny? Uh, not to make light of your question,
Speaker 1: but great question. Appreciate you reading the book and attempting
Speaker 1: to use our tools. From my personal experience, it would
Speaker 1: be a shame because rehashing the things that he said
Speaker 1: to you, that upsets you, that hurts you, it is
Speaker 1: it's just shame. It's shameful. I've had those moments where
Speaker 1: I just I just like, can we just move past it?
Speaker 1: Can we? Just because I don't want to sit in it?
Speaker 1: And here Janna's vulnerable feelings coming from a good place,
Speaker 1: not like hurt in the moment, part, angry parts, sad.
Speaker 1: It's it's when you come back later, and it's just
Speaker 1: truly just gentle vulnerability. That's even harder to hear, and
Speaker 1: it cuts into that shame even more so. I definitely
Speaker 1: think it is um my advice. But maybe My suggestion
Speaker 1: is going into it and kind of bringing that to
Speaker 1: light with him being like, Hey, just no that I
Speaker 1: love you and I know that you're you're sorry for
Speaker 1: the things that you said. Just I need this for
Speaker 1: me to talk about it. I'm not trying to shame you.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to you know, repsualt in the wound.
Speaker 1: I just want to I just need this to connect
Speaker 1: with you and just know at the end of this
Speaker 1: conversation I'm still gonna love you, and high probability that
Speaker 1: he'll drop that shame wall and meet you there. It's
Speaker 1: so hard, though, I I like, I totally hear you.
Speaker 1: It's so hard for her though, in that situation when
Speaker 1: she's just like she just wants almost the apology back
Speaker 1: or something, you know, like I get wanted to be
Speaker 1: like all right, I don't want to talk about it,
Speaker 1: but to be in that area where she deserves the
Speaker 1: conversation like she deserves to have that conversation or and
Speaker 1: he deserves like she deserves to have him meet her halfway.
Speaker 1: And if he doesn't do that, then what d m
Speaker 1: us again? You're on it today, babe, fire. We'll have
Speaker 1: one thing I'll leave for the listeners, Oh, leave us
Speaker 1: with something good bad. You know something our pastor said
Speaker 1: last week when he was talking around politics, you know,
Speaker 1: in a roundabout way and understanding the the amount of
Speaker 1: tension emotional tension in the air in our country right now,
Speaker 1: and he kind of simplified it. He said, look, at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, neither one of these candidates,
Speaker 1: no presidential candidate, is the answer to save our world,
Speaker 1: or to save our nation, or to save us, you know.
Speaker 1: And he just he just kept bringing us back to
Speaker 1: Christ and a higher power and all of that. So
Speaker 1: it's like, no matter who is elected, gets elected this year,
Speaker 1: in four years and eight years or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: they're not the answer for humanity. They're not the answer
Speaker 1: for us. You know. That's that's something higher than than
Speaker 1: the president. That's something spiritual. So it just I I
Speaker 1: appreciated his message because it just it brought me back
Speaker 1: down to earth and ground and be like, you know what,
Speaker 1: we don't have to put as much in that basket
Speaker 1: and that political basket as society is right now, because
Speaker 1: it's not the end of the world, although some think
Speaker 1: it is. Some think it is, and that's okay. That's
Speaker 1: they're in top of that opinion. But nothing's bigger than
Speaker 1: a higher power if you believe in one, so even
Speaker 1: the President, well on that sunny note, See how next
Speaker 1: week