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Speaker 1: I'm Will Lucas and this is black tech Dream Money.

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Speaker 1: Sierra and Monty May is the founder and CEO at Rebundle,

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Speaker 1: which is the first US plant based hair braiding company.

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Speaker 1: One in three women experienced scalp irritation from plastic synthetic hare.

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Speaker 1: With Rebundle, an alternative finally exists. One best practice in

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Speaker 1: starting a company is to pick a problem that exists

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Speaker 1: for you, find a solution, and solve that same problem

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Speaker 1: for other people who may experience that same issue. I

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Speaker 1: wonder if this was how Sierra got on her entrepreneurial track. So,

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Speaker 1: like most other black women, I've been wearing braids most

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Speaker 1: of my life, and one particular summer, while I was

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Speaker 1: working in my first first job post grad, wearing braids

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Speaker 1: back to back, I was having really bad reactions and

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Speaker 1: scalp irritation from plastic synthetic hare and just had time

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Speaker 1: on my hands to sort of look into it and

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Speaker 1: was inspired to develop some hair extensions that would work

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Speaker 1: for me in terms of comfort and safety as well

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Speaker 1: as like not as harmful on the environment as the

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Speaker 1: plastic was having. Is this something that you knew you

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Speaker 1: always wanted to start a business, or you saw, hey,

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Speaker 1: I got an issue here, and I don't see a

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Speaker 1: product in the marketplace, Let me figure it out. I

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Speaker 1: always knew that I was entrepreneurial, although I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what that word meant. I didn't know entrepreneurship was a

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Speaker 1: career until I went to college, and so I studied

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Speaker 1: business management and got a minor and entrepreneurship, and then

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Speaker 1: I went to USC and got a master's in social entrepreneurship.

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Speaker 1: So I definitely knew I wanted to start a business

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Speaker 1: one day, but I couldn't have predicted that it would

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Speaker 1: be this business, for like the hardest business to start

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Speaker 1: as a first time founder, so many uncertainties, there's so

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Speaker 1: much unknown about this space, and the innovation that was

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Speaker 1: needed in this industry was not going to be cheap,

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Speaker 1: and so I just kind of jumped in full force

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Speaker 1: from there. I mean, as somebody who's done like a

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Speaker 1: lot of construction, I've heard the term PVC often, and

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Speaker 1: what what I've read about you is you've you've discovered

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Speaker 1: like a lot of hair braiding. You know, products that

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Speaker 1: are on the market have PVC in it, and so

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Speaker 1: talking about like you know what's in the market today

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Speaker 1: and why those things are issues for us. So from

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Speaker 1: what I understand and what I've been able to find

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Speaker 1: my research, the majority must say none times out of

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Speaker 1: TEND your hair extensions, your plastic hair extensions are going

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Speaker 1: to be made out of PBC. There are some brands

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Speaker 1: that use PET, but for the most part, it's PBC.

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Speaker 1: And I just couldn't believe, based on what I was

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Speaker 1: learning about the way PBC was using other applications that

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Speaker 1: it was okay to use it in a product that

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Speaker 1: sits on our scalps. I was just kind of blown

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Speaker 1: away that not enough people were either aware or calling

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Speaker 1: attention to the potential risks that we were assuming as

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Speaker 1: consumers wearing these products on our scalps. The other half

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Speaker 1: of the market is going to be human hair um,

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Speaker 1: which are also coated in certain chemical The story behind

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Speaker 1: human hair is like it's a lot more secretive because

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Speaker 1: of where it's being sourced, how it's being sourced to practices, um,

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Speaker 1: how it gets this way to the states. So you know,

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Speaker 1: some people have an aversion to wearing another human being's

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Speaker 1: hair on their head um And so I just recognized

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Speaker 1: that there were these two opposite ends of the spectrum,

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Speaker 1: and the hair ecks into the industry that both had

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Speaker 1: sort of nasty histories, and I wanted to know was

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Speaker 1: there was there a lane for something completely different that

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Speaker 1: wasn't made out of neither plastic or human hair. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So so often we think of, you know, our scalp

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Speaker 1: itching or irritation as just a byproduct that have in

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Speaker 1: natural hair. But yeah, this is not normal. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so talk more about that. I knew it wasn't normal,

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Speaker 1: and I knew that most people probably in their their

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Speaker 1: gut knew like this wasn't normal. But it was sort

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Speaker 1: of like an expectation that if I get braids, and

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Speaker 1: it's just something that you have to do it almost

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Speaker 1: like the beauteous pain praise that has been debunked in

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Speaker 1: other areas, But it was it's sort of an expectation

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Speaker 1: like if I get these braids, I know my Scot's

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Speaker 1: gonna be irritated and I'm going to be patting. I

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Speaker 1: know I'm going to be like oiling it down, doing

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Speaker 1: an apple cide or vinegar rants, just doing the whole none.

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Speaker 1: And I wasn't willing to do any of that one.

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Speaker 1: And I was also just really curious, like I wanted

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Speaker 1: to know more of the why than to how am

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Speaker 1: I going to, like continue to wear my braids and

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Speaker 1: go the extra mile to do that? Like I wasn't

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Speaker 1: down to do that. I wanted to know what was

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Speaker 1: the reason that my scalp is itching and what can

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Speaker 1: I do about it so that it doesn't happen again

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Speaker 1: every end for anyone. Yeah, I was looking at when

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Speaker 1: doing research for this conversation, I was looking at some

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Speaker 1: other studies that was done around products that are in

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Speaker 1: your category, not your products, but products in your category.

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Speaker 1: And so many synthetic chemicals are using these things that

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Speaker 1: in many cases are banned in other countries, right, and

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Speaker 1: so things that we allow, for whatever reasons in the

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Speaker 1: United States to be sold and to be put into

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Speaker 1: people's hair. And one of the things that I'm really

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Speaker 1: interested in is what is it about products that are

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Speaker 1: that are not plant based that we may not even

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Speaker 1: be aware are damaging? Like what are they doing to

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Speaker 1: like what are the products doing to us in our skin?

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Speaker 1: Because I was before you answered, I was talking to

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Speaker 1: my dermatologist several years ago and she said this statement

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Speaker 1: that stuck with me ever since. Like our skin is

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Speaker 1: our largest organ. You know, a lot of people don't

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Speaker 1: think of it that way, but the things that you

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Speaker 1: put on it ultimately get in it, and so we

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Speaker 1: think exactly that we think of you know, in our

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Speaker 1: nose or in our mouthhoode, like these are gateways, but

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Speaker 1: your skin is a gateway also, and that's what sort

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Speaker 1: of like that's what scared me once. So all these

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Speaker 1: years ago, this was in twenty started working on this

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Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen. I think I ordered this for partning.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, I sent to two brands of plastic

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Speaker 1: hair to a lab. I was living in North Carolina

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Speaker 1: at the time, sent to a lab in North Carolina

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Speaker 1: for them to tell me, like, you know, what the

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Speaker 1: what is the makeup of these materials, And the results

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Speaker 1: scared me because it got me thinking about if I'm

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Speaker 1: having a topical reaction itchiness, redness, bumps, that is one

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Speaker 1: of my bodies my immune system warning me that something

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Speaker 1: is wrong. But I was terrified about what my body

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Speaker 1: wasn't telling me right in that moment, about what was

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Speaker 1: possibly being absorbed from my skin into my body, how

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Speaker 1: it's impacting my organs, how it's impacting my immune system overall,

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Speaker 1: and what sort of connections that the chemical scan in

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Speaker 1: these products have too certain cancers and illnesses like breast cancer,

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Speaker 1: and so that that just became like eye opening to

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Speaker 1: me that not only could I not allow myself to

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Speaker 1: continue to wear these products, but I have to warn

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Speaker 1: other people that there are questions that needs to be

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Speaker 1: answered in the same way that studies have been done

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Speaker 1: about permanent hair dyes about relaxes. One about relaxes I

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Speaker 1: think has been done a couple of times, but it

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Speaker 1: just got it gained a lot of attraction this last

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Speaker 1: go around, like a couple of months ago, and so

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Speaker 1: that same level of discovery and research needs to be

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Speaker 1: done with plastic hair extensions so that we can know

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Speaker 1: definitively if I'm gonna if I'm gonna continue to use

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Speaker 1: these products, at least I can make an informed decision

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Speaker 1: about the risks that I'm assuming as a as a consumer.

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Speaker 1: And so just personally, I've been going through this um

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Speaker 1: this awakening of the things that I eat right, and

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Speaker 1: so moving closer and closer towards vegetin vegetarianism, maybe not vegan,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's really really hard to do that. Vegan

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Speaker 1: is a huge step. Yeah, it's a huge, humongous step.

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Speaker 1: But making just more conscious decisions about the things that

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Speaker 1: I put in my body, and so so many people

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Speaker 1: around me are having this same away, I mean, and

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Speaker 1: so I want, like what does Sierra think about when

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Speaker 1: she thinks about the why our government allows certain products

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Speaker 1: to be sold to us when so many other countries

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Speaker 1: don't allow these things to be sold? Like I think

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Speaker 1: about I was reading this story a couple of days ago.

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Speaker 1: It's like, there's certain things that we do to our

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Speaker 1: flower and instead of that gives us gluten reactions like

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Speaker 1: in other countries, like they don't have these issues, but

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Speaker 1: there are certain ways we process things that they have

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Speaker 1: to process differently in other countries because they don't allow that. Like,

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Speaker 1: but like, what do you think about when you think

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Speaker 1: about why do they allow this stuff to happen to us? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think there's a level of disappointment, but also not

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Speaker 1: surprised because when you think about the priorities of our

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Speaker 1: government and the people who make decisions about our everyday lives,

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Speaker 1: it's not always with the best intentions. Sometimes it's very performative,

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Speaker 1: and then other other times it is, you know, racism

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Speaker 1: attached to everything. I feel like the list could go

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Speaker 1: on and on as to why this country, does thing lackluster? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: financial interests, people are lobbying against certain things. Who who

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Speaker 1: can really say? But I think there's a level of

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Speaker 1: detachment that the government sometimes exhibits when it comes to products.

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Speaker 1: I'll say products specifically, because go on and on about

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Speaker 1: all the other other layers. But with products, if it

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Speaker 1: is not the first thing on the docket, then I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it will ever become that ever reach

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Speaker 1: that level of importance because it's not it's just not important.

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Speaker 1: And with a product like hair extensions, where it's not

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Speaker 1: used by the majority of people in this country, is

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Speaker 1: used by a certain percentage of people in this country,

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Speaker 1: black people, I don't see a world in which it

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Speaker 1: rises to the ranks from a governmental level to really

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Speaker 1: become a priority. And maybe maybe I'm wrong, maybe that

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Speaker 1: will happen one day, but I think when I recognize that,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's enough research and enough data to suggest

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Speaker 1: how PBC and other chemicals rounding those products are damaging

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Speaker 1: to the human body. I wasn't going to go lobby

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Speaker 1: it at the White House, like I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: make something else when we've talked about, you know, the

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Speaker 1: harmful impacts these things going to have on our body

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Speaker 1: and our personal cells. You talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: the environmental impacts, of the positive environmental impacts your products

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Speaker 1: would have versus products that may be on the market today. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the key differences. Our products are made of biodegradable ingredients

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Speaker 1: and they'll break down in the right environment, Whereas I'll

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Speaker 1: talk about the plastics specifically, those products are not biodegradable,

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Speaker 1: which means after they're worn one time. Because those products

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Speaker 1: also cheap and single use plastics, they end up in

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Speaker 1: the trash, which ultimately ends up in landfills and they

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Speaker 1: are living there to this day. Yeah. So, um, it

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Speaker 1: was important for me as an entrepreneur and a creator

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Speaker 1: in this space that I didn't contribute to that waste

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Speaker 1: in the same way. I needed something that would either

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Speaker 1: be fully recyclable or I needed something I was going

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Speaker 1: to be biodegradable. And Apple still a sort of my

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Speaker 1: parameters on the environmental impact that I needed to stay within. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the natural technology of your product. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've read a little bit about you know, there's like

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Speaker 1: banana fibers, Like I talk about what's what your products

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Speaker 1: are made of? And um, and then I want to

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the challenges in getting those

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Speaker 1: things to market. So the core ingredients, banana fiber its

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Speaker 1: extracted from the stem of the tree, which bananas. It's

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Speaker 1: like the number top three crops in the world. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in terms of production and consum so there's there's no

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Speaker 1: shortage of this material, which was an important piece of

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Speaker 1: the puzzle. The other thing is the stems are um.

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Speaker 1: This was so fun for me to learn when I

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Speaker 1: was doing this research. But the way bananas, girl, they

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Speaker 1: talk about them like families, is like the mom, the grandma,

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Speaker 1: the baby, and these these trees, only one of them

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Speaker 1: bear fruit, bears fruit at a time. So once one

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Speaker 1: is done bearing fruit, the farmers have to cut down

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Speaker 1: the stem of let's say the grandmother because she's done

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Speaker 1: for the mom to be able to produce fruit, and

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Speaker 1: so those that stem goes to either waste by rot

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Speaker 1: or it's mulched um and goes back into to feed

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Speaker 1: the soil. So there was an unused um value in

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Speaker 1: the stems to give it a second life, really give

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Speaker 1: it a first life, but give it some purpose and

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Speaker 1: give products value. And that was I just thought that

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Speaker 1: was so cool and super interesting and further feeds into

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Speaker 1: my idea of what circularity can look like in the

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Speaker 1: most unusual circumstances. And so when you think about the

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Speaker 1: challenges that you've had to go through in order to

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Speaker 1: get these things to market, I think about, what are

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Speaker 1: some of the challenges you've had to overcome, and you know,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about those. Well, in the in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: when I was researching where and how hair sensions were made,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there were no plants or factories in the States.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't just walk in and say, how do y'all

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Speaker 1: do this? Show me how? So that was a challenge.

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Speaker 1: It was also during the pandemic. This is like I

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Speaker 1: quit my job. Um, I think my last day was

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Speaker 1: February twenty fifth, twenty The pandemic started like March third,

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Speaker 1: So it's crazy times for sure. So I just hop

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Speaker 1: on a plane and go, like just pop up places

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Speaker 1: I might have been more willing to do pre pandemic. Yea.

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Speaker 1: So I spent a lot of time on my downhouse,

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Speaker 1: just on what'sapp, connecting with people on the internet, trying

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Speaker 1: to understand like where are these where are hair sings made?

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Speaker 1: How are they made? How can I do it? What

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Speaker 1: do I need? Who do I need? And it was very,

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Speaker 1: very very hard. It's kind of funny to think about

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Speaker 1: now because those aren't the things that keep me up

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Speaker 1: at night anymore. But there were many sleepless nights and

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Speaker 1: stress trying to just get this thing up and running.

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Speaker 1: So today we make all our products out of Saint Louis, Missouri.

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Speaker 1: I'm from Kansas City, but we're based in Saint Louis

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Speaker 1: and we have a manufacturing site with seven employees who

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Speaker 1: make hare a day in a day out, or at

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Speaker 1: least appart the production by management, which is what's not

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Speaker 1: you know, not heard of before I started this here,

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Speaker 1: but it was important to me to have oversight and

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Speaker 1: influence over how these products were made, and so I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do it like literally close to home. I

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Speaker 1: love that so many black haircare and black wellness products

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Speaker 1: stories startup stories black people specifically trying to solve black

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Speaker 1: wellness and black haircut issues. Having challenged raising capital. How

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Speaker 1: did you overcome those challenges to find some success? Storytelling

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Speaker 1: is always key and where you start, and I also

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Speaker 1: raised I can't remember anymore, but between one hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty and two hundred thousand and something dollars in nondolt

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Speaker 1: of capital, and I launched with that. I used a

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Speaker 1: little bit of well, I spread that money out as

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Speaker 1: far as I could, is what I should say, that's

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Speaker 1: what we get to get to market. So yes, to

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Speaker 1: have a proof of concept, to prove that one this

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Speaker 1: was a product that people were interested in, because I hadn't.

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Speaker 1: I really had no data to support whether or not

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Speaker 1: people would be interested in plant based hair extensions. And

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Speaker 1: so after launching and seeing the reception and the excitement

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Speaker 1: from from our people and people who didn't look like this,

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Speaker 1: people we don't wear here extensively, they're just you know,

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Speaker 1: excited about what we were doing, then I decided to

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Speaker 1: raise because I understood just how powerful what we were

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Speaker 1: doing was and how important it was, and that if I,

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Speaker 1: you know, what's to saying, if I wanted to go fast,

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Speaker 1: if you want to go far, go together, yeah yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so that was kind of like you know, and

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Speaker 1: it took a lot of coaching for me to understand

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Speaker 1: what my options were and what was best for me

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Speaker 1: and the company. But ultimately I knew that I had

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Speaker 1: something special and I wanted to share with as many

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Speaker 1: people as possible. UM and so I would need how

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Speaker 1: many help to do that? Yeah, I didn't hear much

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Speaker 1: about how you started out of the MVP, like when

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Speaker 1: you talk about a mental viral party before you go

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Speaker 1: to investors and you got this you know idea. Did

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Speaker 1: you just pitching idea or did you come you've already

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Speaker 1: sold some things in the market, Like how did you

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Speaker 1: get those first prototypes or a beta, you know, products

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Speaker 1: that you could sell or show somebody so that they

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Speaker 1: can see what you've come up with. So most of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty I was just pitching the idea of refining

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Speaker 1: the business model, the the what the solution will look like.

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Speaker 1: I was very clear on what the problem was, but

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Speaker 1: that the ultimate solution of what break Better is today.

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Speaker 1: I didn't have all those details early on, and so

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Speaker 1: I wasn't comfortable raising venture capital at that stage. I

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Speaker 1: also didn't know a lot about it. If I'm being honest,

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Speaker 1: I had gone through two collegiate programs about entrepreneurship, but

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Speaker 1: I still didn't feel like I had a firm understanding

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Speaker 1: of what it's like to put a pitch deck together

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Speaker 1: and go raise six million dollars from vcs with just

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Speaker 1: an idea Like that was foreign to me, and so

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Speaker 1: I stuck to what I knew, which was applying for grants.

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Speaker 1: I put myself through undergrad on grants and most of

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Speaker 1: grad school on grants, so I knew how to do that,

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Speaker 1: and so that's that's what I did. I applied for

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Speaker 1: pitch competitions. Um. There's tons of grants circulating at the

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Speaker 1: time because of George Floyd and other racial justice issues. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I just it was it was. I applied for

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Speaker 1: everything that we were eligible for, wracked up a nice

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Speaker 1: chunk of change, and I, like I said, I spread

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Speaker 1: it out as far as I could to get to

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Speaker 1: that MVP, and then it was worth me, you know,

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Speaker 1: entertaining these calls and something else that is super interesting

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Speaker 1: for a precede round. Most of my most of that

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Speaker 1: investor interest with inbound. So I also didn't have a

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Speaker 1: good understanding of what it was like to go out

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Speaker 1: and pitch UM with this idea. They were coming to

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Speaker 1: me saying, hey, what're you doing a super interestring. I

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Speaker 1: love to learn more, and so it kind of gave

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Speaker 1: me an opportunity to choose who I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: to and who I didn't. It also gave me the

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Speaker 1: space to like get better and learn how to like

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Speaker 1: hold my own in these spaces that I really wasn't

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Speaker 1: that familiar with. And so and so, if I'm hearing

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Speaker 1: you correctly, and clarify if if I'm misunderstanding, But it

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Speaker 1: sounds like to me before that MVP, you were just

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Speaker 1: focused on understanding the problem at its root and then

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Speaker 1: letting the solution evolve over time. Is that correct? I

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Speaker 1: would say, so, Yeah, I let the solution come to fruition.

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Speaker 1: I let my my stories before itself and build community

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Speaker 1: around what I knew the problem to be or what

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Speaker 1: I thought the problem was amongst other black women who

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Speaker 1: wore braids, and I led with that. I needed a

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Speaker 1: product that worked for me at the at the very beginning,

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Speaker 1: That's what I was focused on. I need something that

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Speaker 1: I can wear. So I launched something that I could wear,

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Speaker 1: and then I totally people you can wear it too. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about that. I'm so, you have you

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Speaker 1: have this problem that you've identified, you know, irritation of

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Speaker 1: the skin because of these chemicals that you're recognizing are

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Speaker 1: being put in or play on the products that are

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Speaker 1: on the market, particularly the plastic um hair extensions that

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Speaker 1: are on the market, and then you start to go

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Speaker 1: down this rabbit hole of what else is out there?

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Speaker 1: Tell me about how when you when you decided to

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Speaker 1: ask yourself that question, or when you ask yourself that question,

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Speaker 1: how did it get from that question of what else

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Speaker 1: is out there? To bananas potentially being a solution or

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Speaker 1: part of the solution. What started to be revealed to you?

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Speaker 1: So I started my search with if not plastic, then what?

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Speaker 1: So I looked in other spaces to find out what

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Speaker 1: other type of materials were being used to replace plastics

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Speaker 1: and other applications and kitchens and homes and beauty, and

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Speaker 1: so I just was reading up on literature that gave

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Speaker 1: gave me an idea of what type of natural materials

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Speaker 1: even exists. And I ordered whatever I could find on

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Speaker 1: the internet so I could feel it and smell it,

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Speaker 1: see it and get an idea of whether or not

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Speaker 1: it was enough like hair or could I could I

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Speaker 1: or could I find somebody who could help me make

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Speaker 1: it hair like? And there are you know, pockets of

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Speaker 1: of research online that says, yeah, this this is a

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Speaker 1: good You know it's good in this application, it could

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Speaker 1: be good in other applications. And I really just wanted

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Speaker 1: to see it for myself and so just try a

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Speaker 1: bunch of different stuff. You initially had to be sold

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Speaker 1: to raise money, and you touched on this a little

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Speaker 1: bit ago, like you were initially like, nah, I'm good,

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Speaker 1: and you know you didn't really feel like it was,

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Speaker 1: at least at the beginning, the onset the lane for you.

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Speaker 1: Um and you told the afrotech previously that you know,

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Speaker 1: one of your would be investors was like, these are

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Speaker 1: all the reasons you should raise money, and they gave

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Speaker 1: you a list of things, right, and you know, as

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Speaker 1: I think you wouldn't want to say, as I was

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Speaker 1: listening to all my ambitions and that helped me realize

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Speaker 1: that I can disrupt an industry with limited capital. I

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Speaker 1: don't think I can. I can see exactly what that

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Speaker 1: was what I was doing, and that capital could take

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Speaker 1: me a lot further. What were some of those things

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Speaker 1: that you realized that you couldn't do if you didn't

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Speaker 1: raise money. Okay, I'm gonna answer that two ways. One

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Speaker 1: was like in the moment, the pain points I was experiencing,

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Speaker 1: and in the long term vision one, I couldn't hire anybody,

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Speaker 1: so I was making most of the hair and so

399
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Speaker 1: I couldn't, like I literally couldn't do fundraising, calls, podcasts, press,

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Speaker 1: make product, ship product like I just didn't. I didn't

401
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Speaker 1: have that foresight in the beginning because I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to make hair for myself. I just wanted to see,

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Speaker 1: you know, what, what could this be? And I just

404
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Speaker 1: wasn't focused on like the scale in the early days.

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Speaker 1: So I was like baseline, Like it was Mac who

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Speaker 1: Matt Conwell who told me this? You said you can't

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Speaker 1: work in in on your business at the same time,

408
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Speaker 1: and it might as well have been a mic drop moment,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, you're right, I can't

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Speaker 1: do that. Shout out to Mac. Yeah. So that was

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Speaker 1: the one and the other thing was I could very

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Speaker 1: clearly see that with the interest that was growing, that

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Speaker 1: we had something and that people were gonna pay us

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Speaker 1: good money to eliminate this problem for them. So how

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Speaker 1: was I going to get to how was I going

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Speaker 1: to get to all these people all over the country

417
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Speaker 1: and all over the world that were coming at me

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Speaker 1: asking for a product. I could not do it alone.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't do it with the limited capital that I had,

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Speaker 1: and I couldn't I couldn't make a high quality product

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Speaker 1: without money under my belt either. I needed that not

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Speaker 1: just for like the formulation itself, but the production and

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Speaker 1: the operation. Like I just I wasn't focused on those

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Speaker 1: things really early on because I just wanted to prove

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Speaker 1: that it could be done. And I proved that, and

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Speaker 1: then I went out and got some more money. So

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Speaker 1: I think about you know, when when I've talked to

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Speaker 1: so many entrepreneurs like yourself, who knew they kind of

429
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Speaker 1: wanted to be an entrepreneur, had an idea that they

430
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Speaker 1: wanted to work for themselves, maybe didn't really have an

431
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Speaker 1: understand or definition or of the vocabulary of entrepreneurship in

432
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Speaker 1: there in their vocabulary, but knew they wanted to work

433
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: for themselves, but was on a different path. And but

434
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 1: we don't always see as obvious is the lifestyle of

435
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur. It's long days, it can be long days,

436
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: it can be very stressful. And I've read where you

437
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: talked about, you know, all founders struggle with some mental

438
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: health challenges, and I'm interested in how you manage stress

439
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 1: in your life being somebody who was on a particular path,

440
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: you know, entrepreneurship evolved in your life, and you know

441
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: it could be consuming. You talked about having to do

442
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: all the things and having to pitch to investors while

443
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 1: also making while also trying to do the podcast and etc.

444
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: It's a lot of work and it can be, you know,

445
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 1: like you're carrying the way of the world so often,

446
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: especially when you're working now with somebody else's money too.

447
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: So how do you manage the stresses of entrepreneurship in

448
00:24:54,840 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: your life? It's definitely it definitely has evolved in UH.

449
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, I had a nervous breakdown, like

450
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: post launch, and I have been I've been seeing a

451
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: therapist since I quit my job in twenty twenty, So

452
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 1: I immediately jumped into there, but I've been thinking about it,

453
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: and then I quit my job and then something else

454
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: happened that I won't go into and I was like,

455
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: I'm not just try therapy. So I was seeing a

456
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: therapist I had. I had that tool in my toolbox

457
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: and I had a nervous breakdown in twenty twenty one,

458
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: and so I just sort of had this realization that

459
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 1: I couldn't be my best self at work if I

460
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 1: wasn't my best self up here. And I had to

461
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: reprioritize what rebundle meant to me and how I would

462
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 1: be an entrepreneur and a person with a life outside

463
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: of my company. So um, I've employed a few different techniques,

464
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: many many of that have to do with like how

465
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 1: much work I allow myself to do in a given

466
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: time frame, how much space I create, what boundaries I

467
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: set between me and my company, what my support system

468
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: looks like, what good support and bad support looks like,

469
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: what sacrifices I am and I'm not willing to make,

470
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: and just being like real with myself about how much

471
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: I can handle, and listening to my body. And so

472
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: it's definitely evolved because there was a period where I

473
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: wasn't listening to my body and then my body was like, yeah, no,

474
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: we're gonna stop here. And if I wanted to, you know,

475
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: continue on my journey, and I had to respect what

476
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: my body needed for me, which was sanity. Yeah, how

477
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 1: do you protect that? How do you put boundaries around that?

478
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: When you know the culture of startup culture, startup lifestyle

479
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: is go go go, Well, I try not to put

480
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: too much pressure on my team. I try to respect

481
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: the boundaries that they said, which in turn means that.

482
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: You know, if I need something done from somebody at

483
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: ten pm, they can't get it to me, then I

484
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't be working on it either. So that's one

485
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: thing I take advantage of scheduling emails and messages at

486
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: later times. I spend time with my friends and my family.

487
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: I travel. I'm kind of doing an unconventional living situation

488
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: right now, but I'm about tired of that, so I'm

489
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 1: about to, you know, move to New York and take

490
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: myself seriously. So, you know, it's just different different things.

491
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 1: You there's always a season and there will be periods

492
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: where we do how to go, go go. This is

493
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: a go go go period for me and my team,

494
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: and I told them that yesterday. I said, we'll probably

495
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: where Carter, we have this this quarter than we ever have.

496
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: And at least I'm upfront about that and can think about,

497
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 1: you know, how we prioritize mental health while also while

498
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: they helped me make my dream a reality. Yeah, we

499
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: speaking of your team, you know, when you were building

500
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: your team, specifically the key people on your team, the

501
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: people that who are you know, those other leaders like

502
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 1: it's closer to your self when you were interviewing them

503
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: and when you're identifying people to fill these key roles,

504
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: what are some of the most important questions you felt

505
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: they needed to answer correctly in those interviews. I have

506
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 1: learned early on that people having an affinity towards startup

507
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: environments or experience working in them is like table stakes,

508
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: like it more often than not, it doesn't work out

509
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: with people who are looking for a certain level of

510
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: structure and progression in some ways, and like in their career,

511
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: like hoplically they get promotions, bonuses, etc. And just knowing

512
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: how to be flexible and nimble, Like that's something I

513
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: always have to look for, and you can ask it

514
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: in a few ways, but you also can just glean

515
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: from the way they answer certain questions about like how

516
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,959
Speaker 1: quickly they respond to something, how cool they are, how

517
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: chill they are, how organized they are. I don't know,

518
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: it's just a feelings sometimes, and I didn't get this

519
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: a lot early on, Like I've gotten a lot better

520
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: at it. What I should say, It really has to

521
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: do with a feeling oftentimes, if whether or not someone

522
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: is a good fit, if I like them, if I

523
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,719
Speaker 1: like their energy, they have the skills, like skill is

524
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: obviously very important. Table saxes as well. But do they

525
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: have the will? Are they hungry themselves? Are they like

526
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: what gets to them? Excited? How like independent? How much

527
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: an independent thinker are they? How willing are they gonna

528
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: be to like just figure stuff out? Because that's usually

529
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: what we're all doing anyways. So yeah, that I can't

530
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: think of any specific questions, but it has a lot

531
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: to do with a feeling. I'm definitely reading a resume

532
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: to see what other type of environments you've been in,

533
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: and I'm listening to the way you answer questions, not

534
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: necessarily like whether or not you answer with you know,

535
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: a very the answer that maybe been a right one,

536
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: but like what was your process to get into that?

537
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: Are you do I feel like you are not the

538
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: right fit because you are going to be too rigid?

539
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: Are you going to be pressing me because you don't

540
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: have enough time or enough resources like which are all

541
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: very real things, But are you gonna press me about it?

542
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: Because you know, I'm feeling into you know, and I

543
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: want to talk a little bit more about sustainability and

544
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: you know that's it's a big topic in our social

545
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: discourse these days, and particularly to what you're doing for

546
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: you know, our community with you know, making products that

547
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: are healthier for us. And there was another coal I

548
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: read where you were in a different interview and you said,

549
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: you know, there would be no demand without us, and

550
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: part of the reason that so many other companies, many

551
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: using international resourced um products and ingredients, they don't necessarily

552
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: always have our best interests at hard And you said, why,

553
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: why don't we have any ownership and why is there

554
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: not an experience created around us in our products? And

555
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: so in your mind, what is the importance of black entrepreneurs,

556
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: black founders like yourself, black developers of solutions that are

557
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: better for us to Why is it important for them

558
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: to scale? So many I know so many black women

559
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: and black men who are building healthcare products, health and

560
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: wellness products, whether it be from shade butters to cologns

561
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,479
Speaker 1: and etc. And they're doing it better. There's not as

562
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: many chemicals or no chemicals at all. What is the

563
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: importance for them? If you were to stand in front

564
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: of a room of them and you were to say,

565
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: it's important for you to get out of just your

566
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: kitchen doing this, but it's important for you to grow

567
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: a business around us, what would you say to them, Well,

568
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: I guess my first question would be, is that what

569
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: they want. Do they want to grow highly scalable, a

570
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: fast growth company or do they want a lifestyle business?

571
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: Because honestly, there's nothing wrong with one or the other.

572
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: It's really about who's running it and what is their

573
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: vision for or what they want to build. Because if

574
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,719
Speaker 1: I'm being honest, I was sort of on the other

575
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: end of the spectrum. I didn't really know how big

576
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: what we were doing could be. I didn't have the

577
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: foresight to like lay down those foundational steps first and

578
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: then you know, become a high growth venture. So if

579
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: that's what you wants, if that's what the entrepreneur wants,

580
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: then I think we owe it to ourselves and our

581
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: community to try and put our all behind it to

582
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: make it as big as we can. Because if there

583
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: are products in the market that you are not willing

584
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: to wear yourself, like you wouldn't wear it yourself, but

585
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: you have made something that you know it's better for

586
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: you and could be better for you, know, the person

587
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: next to you. We should be supporting each other in

588
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: that way, like we should want better for ourselves and

589
00:32:52,960 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: our community from whether it's health or environmental standpoint. Black

590
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: Tech Green Money is the production of Blackvity, Afrotech on

591
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeart Media. Is produced

592
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: by Morgan Dubonne and me Well Lucas, with additional production

593
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: supported by Sarah Ergan and Rose mc lucas. Special thank

594
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: you to Michael Davis if and that's a serranto. Learn

595
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: about my guests and other technis trumpets and innovatives at

596
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: afrotech dot com. Enjoying Black Tech Green Money, Share this

597
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: with somebody. Go get your money. Peace and love,