1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Coarckley and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 2: Today it is about the visit, as you just heard 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 2: live on Bloomberg, the visit from the President of Poland. 8 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: They're retiring for a bit of lunch now in the 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 2: cabinet room. The President at one point was asked about 10 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: whether he was going to go out to a restaurant 11 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: to I guess, you know, kind of show how safe 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 2: things are around here. And he made the case that 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 2: the food's pretty good at the White House. If you 14 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 2: ever eat in the White House mess you know what 15 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 2: I'm talking about. They know how to do it down there. 16 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: So we'll see if anything comes out of this meeting. 17 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: Because it's not only geopolitics in the air, it is 18 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,319 Speaker 2: also Jeffrey Epstein. As I mentioned a bit earlier, there 19 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 2: was a news conference up on Capitol Hill. Rocanna and 20 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 2: Tom Massey, the D and the R with a discharge 21 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: petition as they call it, that would force a vote 22 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: on the floor to release the Epstein files. They are 23 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: apparently two votes away, and they just held a news 24 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 2: conference with Epstein victims. There's more where this came from 25 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: as well. The documents are starting to be released. Thirty 26 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 2: three thousand file files from the GOP leadership. This is 27 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 2: coming from the Oversight Committee, ninety seven percent of them. 28 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: We understand we're already in the public domain. Robert Garcia, 29 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 2: Democrat from California, says, quote, there is no mention of 30 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 2: any client list. He's the ranking member, the top Democrat 31 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 2: on the Oversight Committee. As you just heard, the President 32 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: was asked about it, quote, it's really a Democrat hoax. 33 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 2: I know, no matter what you do, it's going to 34 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 2: keep ongoing. Referring to this never ending saga about the 35 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 2: Epstein files. Laura Davison was watching and listening along with us, 36 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 2: our deputy buer chief. You're in Washington with us now 37 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: at the desk in the nation's capital. 38 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 3: It's great to see you. 39 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: I suspect he'd like to end that conversation as quickly 40 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: as possible. We've covered a lot of topics to call 41 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: that a Democrat hoax. While the victims are on the 42 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 2: other side of town. Is an interesting choice, is we're 43 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: going back to this being a hoax now, Yes, and it's. 44 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 4: Clear that Trump really still has it figured out how 45 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 4: he wants to grapple with this politically. Mike Johnson tried 46 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 4: to shut all this down by sending all the lawmakers 47 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 4: home early at the end of July early August. Really, 48 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 4: what it turns out has happened is they just had 49 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 4: more time to plan. So when they came back, Epstein 50 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 4: has roared back with a vengeance. You have the Oversight Committee, 51 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 4: who is releasing documents and chrnges. As you mentioned, a 52 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 4: lot of this some stuff that was already out there, 53 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 4: but they're planning to release more. You have Democrats and 54 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 4: Republicans in the House, this never happens, working together, holding 55 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 4: joint press conferences, bringing up these privileged resolutions, basically something 56 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 4: to force a vote on the releasing more documents. This 57 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 4: is going to be a big problem that is going 58 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 4: to not only sort of consume the political space, but 59 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 4: also really pushed aside any of the policy stuff they 60 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 4: wanted to do. They've been talking about, you know, another 61 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 4: budget bill they need to fund the government by the 62 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 4: end of the month, they're talking about a DC crime bill. 63 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 4: But while Republicans are at loggerhoods over this, not a 64 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 4: lot can happen. 65 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 2: Interesting that there were only two votes away, so this 66 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 2: really could happen, but then it would presumably have to 67 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 2: pass the Senate and be signed by the president. 68 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 3: Are we going a little too far with this whole idea? 69 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 4: It's certainly possible. You know. The Senate is a whole 70 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 4: different beast, you know, and senators are really, you know, 71 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 4: not focused on this issue as much as it's not 72 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 4: divided Republicans the same way, you know, and they're really. 73 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 5: Focused on you. 74 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 4: They've got a busy week. They've got RFK Junior in 75 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 4: tomorrow after all of the kerfuffle at the CDC last week, 76 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 4: plus Steven Myron they've got to confirm him for the 77 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 4: FED chair. 78 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: We're going to be talking with Elizabeth Warren on the 79 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: late edition, who's gearing up right now for that hearing 80 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 2: with Steven Myron. We can digress for just a moment 81 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: on this after what's been taking place with the Federal 82 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: Reserve with Lisa Cook. 83 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 3: How chippy is this hearing going to be? 84 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 4: This is going to be wild? Meanwhile, just a bit 85 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 4: of counter program. You have Bill Polti, who is scheduled 86 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 4: to press conference yeah in Washington with more news on 87 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 4: Lisa Cook. We don't know what this is, you know, 88 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 4: it could range from the very mundane to you know, 89 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 4: perhaps another criminal referral. We have no clue, but this 90 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 4: is going to be a lot of different things happening. 91 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 4: Plus tomorrow we may also hear from the judge about 92 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 4: whether Lisa Cook can continue her work as a Fed 93 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 4: governor while this proceeds. But you can imagine that that 94 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 4: tempers are going to be hot. And Steven Myron, you know, 95 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 4: he's usually a pretty cool fellow, but you know, a 96 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 4: test exchange with Elizabeth Warren could be something you see 97 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 4: on your social media feed. 98 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 2: Before we move to geopolitics, we're going to bring Nick 99 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: Wadhams into the conversation. I want to ask you about crime, 100 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 2: President saying I want to go into Chicago. Yesterday he 101 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: said Chicago's next, but there was more today, Laura, because 102 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 2: a lot of us have been asking what about cities 103 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 2: in Red States? Do you actually plan to go to 104 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 2: any of those metropolitan areas that have even worse crime 105 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 2: rates than the city of Chicago. 106 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 3: He said, do we go. 107 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: To Chicago or do we go to a place like 108 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: New Orleans, where we have a great governor, Jeff Landry 109 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 2: who wants us to come in and straighten out a 110 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 2: very nice section of this country. Is that actually being 111 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 2: talked about right now? Is Chicago not a sure thing? 112 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: And does the White House want to move into a 113 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: red state? 114 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 3: To make a point? 115 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 5: Trump still seems. 116 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 4: Very focused on Chicago, but he's also thrown out Baltimore. 117 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 4: He throwed out today in New Orleans. He seems to 118 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 4: like sort of throwing out this, having this threat looming 119 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 4: and making the state and local government scramble a little bit. 120 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 4: This is also what he did with the universities, of 121 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 4: levering threats on them, having them sort of pre make 122 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 4: some concessions. Even if he still is going to go in, 123 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 4: he's sort of already gotten them moving in the direction 124 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 4: that he wants and can claim an easier win. 125 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: Fascinating You mentioned Baltimore. He said, Governor Moore wanted me 126 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: to go and walk through Baltimore with Remember they had 127 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 2: their little social media spat. I said, you know, I 128 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 2: think I'm a brave guy, but there's no reason to 129 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 2: be stupid. Maybe he'll go to Baltimore for dinner after 130 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 2: the National Guard. But see about that, Laura, Okay, geopolitics, 131 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,799 Speaker 2: that was the point of this. The President of Poland 132 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: in the Oval Office, And I want to add the 133 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 2: voice of our colleague, Nick Watams, Bloomberg's national security team leader, 134 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 2: is all also with us here at the table. We've 135 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 2: got the best of Bloomberg in Washington today. Nick, thanks 136 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 2: for joining here. This was an individual who was endorsed, 137 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: if you will, by MAGA and is a Trump favorite. 138 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 3: What we just heard in. 139 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 2: The Oval Office kind of interesting with regard to Russia, 140 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: the potential for a second or third phase of secondary 141 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 2: sanctions or tariffs, as he puts it. 142 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 3: What's what's he talking about? What might we see in 143 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 3: the next few days? 144 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 6: Well, that is a great question. The President has, I 145 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 6: think been deliberately vague about what he might plan for Russia. 146 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 6: So the suggestion there is that he has a very 147 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 6: detailed plan that he would be willing to spool out 148 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 6: if Russia doesn't come on board and agree to what 149 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 6: the administration sees. Is this crucial meeting with the Ukrainian 150 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 6: President Vladimir Zelenski. The challenge is when you really try 151 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 6: to bore down and get details. It's not really clear 152 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 6: what exactly they have in mind. So I think the 153 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 6: idea would be potentially secondary tariff, so tariffing China potentially 154 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 6: because it imports Russian oil. But you know, we've also 155 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 6: been told some of our reporting is essentially that the 156 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 6: administration recognizes that would be a potentially poisoned shealice, because 157 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 6: you know, if you really go after China, that's you 158 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 6: start to potentially have big problems with the global economy. 159 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 6: So it's another situation where the president is making a threat, 160 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 6: but the follow through very uncertain at this point. 161 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 2: Well, I'm gonna ask you more about China because the 162 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 2: visuals coming from China or wild this week. With regard 163 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 2: to Putin, let's listen to what Donald Trump actually said 164 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: when he was asked about the president of Russia a 165 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 2: short time ago. 166 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 7: Listen, I have no message to President Putin. 167 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 8: He knows where I stand, and he'll make a decision 168 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 8: one way or the other. 169 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 7: Whatever his decision is. 170 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 8: Will either be happy about it or unhappy. And if 171 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 8: we're unhappy about it, you'll see things happen. 172 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: So this is interesting because Vladimir Putin is in China 173 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 2: right now. As we mentioned, this is quite the post 174 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: on truth social last night, the president writes, the big 175 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 2: question to be answered is whether or not President She 176 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 2: of China will mention the massive amount of support and 177 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 2: blood the US gave to China in order to help 178 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 2: it secure its freedom from a very unfriendly foreign invader. 179 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: He's referring to the military prate over there celebrating China's 180 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 2: conquests in World War Two. He's appearing with Vladimir Putin, 181 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 2: and he writes, May President She and the wonderful people 182 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 2: of China have a great and lasting day of celebration. 183 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 2: Please give my warmest regards to Vladimir Putin and Kim 184 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 2: Jong Un, who's also there, as you conspire against the 185 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 2: United States of America. What was he thinking when he 186 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 2: wrote that he was just with Vladimir. 187 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 6: Put I mean, that's a great question. I think what 188 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 6: you're seeing here is the President essentially trying to deflect. 189 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 6: I mean, listen, when you see those three leaders meeting 190 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 6: together in Beijing. In some ways, it makes me think 191 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 6: that this amounts to a real, in some ways failure 192 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 6: of what we have seen of US policy in the 193 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 6: last several years. I mean, ever since the Ukraine War started. 194 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 6: The Biden administration plan was to try to split Russia 195 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,719 Speaker 6: and China away from each other. So they imposed sanctions, 196 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 6: They issued toughly worded statements, They tried to shine a 197 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 6: spotlight and reveal a lot of the intelligence that showed 198 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 6: China was not directly putting its own weapons on the 199 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 6: battlefield in Ukraine, but certainly helping Russia and keeping Russia close, 200 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 6: and they really tried to split them apart. Now you 201 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 6: see this very warm meeting, Russia and China appear closer 202 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 6: and closer than essentially than they have in a long time. 203 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 6: And what is President Trump is essentially relegated to the 204 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 6: sidelines on this. I mean, it's exactly the kind of 205 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 6: image that he was asked about this, Are you bothered 206 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 6: by this meeting? And he said no, sort of go ahead, 207 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 6: so you sort of see him. It almost feels like 208 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 6: damage control. 209 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was quite the lineup, Laura, to see these three. 210 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 2: This is, of course, the day after a Prime Minister 211 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: Modi was with President She and they were hugging, shaking hands, laughing. 212 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 3: The big meeting the limousine. Is that what it was. 213 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 2: Donald Trump saw the meeting in the limousine and started 214 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 2: to feel like he was missing the party here. And 215 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: I'll remind everyone the president of South Korea was in town. 216 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 2: What it was just two weeks ago. The first thing 217 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 2: he talked about was how close a friend he is 218 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 2: with Kim John Nuna we're looking at right now on YouTube. 219 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 3: Does he feel left out? 220 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 4: He certainly doesn't like missing a party, and he certainly 221 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 4: doesn't like missing one with the optics of that, that's 222 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 4: a really big red carpet from most of those big, 223 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 4: grand spectacles. You know, he is less inclined to go 224 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 4: to some of these big you know, the G twenty 225 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 4: and others. He doesn't like hanging out there for a 226 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 4: whole long time. But when it's you know, these very 227 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 4: powerful people who he has looked up to and at 228 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 4: times been very express a lot of admiration for. This 229 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 4: is you know, something that is clearly bothering him. He 230 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 4: was very quick to deflect. And you know, almost one 231 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 4: doth protest too much. 232 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 2: Boy, I'll tell you remember the Axis of Evil President 233 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 2: George W. 234 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 3: Bush, what was it then? Iran? Iraq? I can't even 235 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 3: know North Korea. 236 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: You look at these three here, You've got Russia, China, 237 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 2: North Korea. Is this the new axis? Is It's like 238 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 2: the mount rushmore of bad guys. 239 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 6: I mean, you know, I don't think we should on 240 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 6: you know, not to be to give the president too 241 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:13,599 Speaker 6: much the benefit of the doubt, but you know, we 242 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 6: shouldn't also discount the possibility that there this is a 243 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 6: meeting that is really designed to project a degree of 244 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 6: unity that is not actually there. Yes, there is a 245 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 6: lot of cooperation. It's not Russian China, correct, I mean, 246 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 6: there is cooperation between Russian and China. 247 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 3: There is. 248 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 6: North Korea is largely supported by both of those countries too. 249 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 6: But China knows, I mean, it's trade relationship with the 250 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 6: United States is far more valuable to it than than 251 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 6: the sort of the geopolitical alliance it gets with Russia. 252 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 6: I mean, when you really get down to bractic brass 253 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 6: tax dollars and cents, China understands how deep its interdependence 254 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 6: is with the United States. So, you know, I don't 255 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 6: think you can also discount the possibility that they're doing 256 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 6: this precisely as a jab a little bit against President 257 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 6: Ronald Trump. He's tried to make it look like there's 258 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 6: a lot of division between these countries. So they get together, 259 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 6: they do a meeting, they shake hands, but what actually 260 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 6: comes of it. Yes, there may be some deepening ties 261 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 6: between Russian and China over Ukraine. North Korea has been 262 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 6: involved in to some degree in the Ukraine War. But 263 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 6: beyond that, this is not a relationship that is in 264 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 6: any way going to threaten the economic ties that US has, 265 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 6: which on. 266 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 2: A reality check as usual from Nick Wattams. We didn't 267 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 2: get a military parade, guys, but we got a flyover. 268 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 3: Did you see that? 269 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 2: From when the president of Poland arrived, we got a 270 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 2: flyover of F thirty five's, then another one F sixteen's 271 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: missing Man for love. That's just part of the trick. 272 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,079 Speaker 2: Now when the president's out with a world leader, we 273 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:42,719 Speaker 2: got a fly by. 274 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 4: I think this is a classic example of a second 275 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 4: term president. He suddenly knows all the buttons. He knows 276 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 4: who call to press to have a big, big parade. 277 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 3: That includes the diet coke button. 278 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 2: Great conversation, Nick Watdams, Laura Davison, the best of Bloomberg 279 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 2: here in Washington. Many thanks both of your insights. Stay 280 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 2: with us on balance of power or we'll have much 281 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 2: more coming up after this. 282 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 283 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 284 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: Apple Cockway and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. 285 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 286 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 287 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 2: Indeed, Vladimir Putin is on President Trump's mind, having seen 288 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 2: the images of Putin alongside President She and Kim Jong Un. 289 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 2: Donald Trump was asked about Vladimir Putin on the war 290 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 2: in Ukraine at the beginning of this Q and A. 291 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 3: Here's what he said. 292 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 7: I have no message to President Putin. 293 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 8: He knows where I stand and he'll make a decision 294 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 8: one way or the other. Whatever his decision is, will 295 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 8: either be happy about it or unhappy. And if we're 296 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 8: unhappy about it, you'll see thanks happening. 297 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 2: Let's bring in Jane Harmon on this conversation to share 298 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 2: the now Defense Strategy Commission, former ranking member of the 299 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: House Intelligence Committee. Jane's great to have you back on 300 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: Bloomberg TV and radio. We've been talking about this on 301 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 2: the regular since Russia invaded Ukraine. Will Donald Trump end 302 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 2: up being disappointed in Vladimir Putin. 303 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 5: I have no idea whether he'll be disappointed, but he's 304 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 5: been on both sides of this issue for months, and 305 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 5: it's time for him to pick a side, and the 306 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 5: right side is to stand with Europe. I'm very glad 307 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 5: he's meeting with Poland and to let Lindsey Graham and 308 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 5: the Graham Blumenauer bill pass the Congress. It's overwhelmingly supported, 309 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 5: and it would impose secondary sanctions across the board on 310 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 5: countries that are dealing in oil with Russia. It's been 311 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 5: the right thing to do forever, and Trump is not 312 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 5: making the decision. 313 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 7: So I'm a little. 314 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 5: Confused, maybe, but disappointed that we keep moving the goalpost 315 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 5: over an over and over again. One thing I would 316 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 5: say is that the stakes get higher and higher. It's 317 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 5: almost the end of summer, when the snow comes. A 318 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 5: lot of what Ukraine can do will not work anymore. Drones, yes, 319 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 5: but supplies are running low. The US government may close 320 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 5: God forbid at the end of September because we don't 321 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 5: have a budget, and there is still enormous ambivalence in 322 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 5: Trump's base about what to do about Ukraine. I'm not ambivalent. 323 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 5: Ukraine is a democratic country invaded by Russia, and if 324 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 5: Putin gets away with this, he goes straight into Europe. 325 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 5: And we just saw that Poland was increasing military drills 326 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 5: because there were air attacks in Western Ukraine, which is 327 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 5: very close to eastern Poland. One more comment. Poland has 328 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 5: taken in so many Ukrainian refugees, starting at the beginning 329 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 5: and assimilating them. I don't think any other country has 330 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 5: been as generous, and we really really a lot to Poland. 331 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 9: Gane. 332 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 10: You mentioned a key piece there, which is those secondary 333 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 10: or even tertiary sanctions when it comes to really targeting 334 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 10: who is going to be buying oil from Russia. 335 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 3: There are still. 336 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,119 Speaker 10: Countries in Europe that are very much dependent on those exports, 337 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 10: even three years from the war. Could they be on 338 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 10: that list of countries at the White House that could 339 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 10: face those targets. 340 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 5: Well, I think it'd be hard to exempt them. I mean, 341 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 5: there are oil resources available elsewhere, including from the United States. 342 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 5: I mean, we've been talking about this forever, oil and 343 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 5: fuel resources, and we have a surplus, notwithstanding some of 344 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 5: the rhetoric around, and we could expedite shipping some of 345 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 5: it to Europe. So I'm not sympathetic. I think this 346 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 5: war has to end, but it has to end on 347 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 5: Ukraine's terms. One more thing I read that Putin said 348 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 5: he'll meet with Zelensky if Celestie comes to Russia. That's 349 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 5: Zelensky's choice. But why would you do that. Russia is 350 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 5: the aggressor in violation of international law and has been 351 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 5: every single night killing Ukrainian children and bombing schools and 352 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 5: kidnapping hundreds of children. I would think it goes the 353 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 5: other way. Putin should be coming to Ukraine and asking 354 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 5: for something reasonable. 355 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 2: Jane, what did you make of the president's remarks about 356 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: our troop presence in Poland? Knowing that at times the 357 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 2: president may have been listening to Vladimir Putin on this issue. 358 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 2: Russia would love US troops to be out of Eastern Europe, 359 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 2: and he said he has no intention of reducing the 360 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 2: number of troops in Poland. Quote, They've always wanted to 361 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 2: have a larger presence. We have some countries that have more, 362 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 2: not too many, but no, they'll be staying in Poland. 363 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 2: Is that a turn based on the way the president 364 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 2: is feeling about Vladimir Putin over the past couple of days. 365 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 5: Well, again, this is what he said today. What's he 366 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 5: going to say tomorrow? But if it were up to me, 367 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 5: darn well keep those troops there, keep our coordinating base 368 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 5: that provides intel and strategy into Ukraine, in Germany. I 369 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 5: visited it in sin Vspad and very impressive. And the 370 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 5: US is part of NATO. The defense of Europe is 371 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 5: part of our commitment. And if we don't defend Europe, 372 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 5: I think we leave ourselves vulnerable, and we again violate 373 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 5: our fundamental values, which is to appoll, which are to 374 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 5: behold the rule of law. That's how we win against 375 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 5: China and ease other countries. We have values. They don't. 376 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 5: They're just thugs, and I don't want my country to 377 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 5: become like them. I want my country to be the 378 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 5: shining city on the hill, which is what Ronald Reagan said. 379 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 8: It was. 380 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 7: Jane. 381 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 10: We've been digesting the world's been digesting shocking images coming 382 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 10: out of China, not only in terms of warm embraces 383 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 10: with Vladimir putin Chijing paying Preme mister nor Indermodi, among 384 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,479 Speaker 10: many many other leaders, but also a very flashy military parade. 385 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 10: I'm curious, that's how you think that's being received here 386 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 10: in the States. Does that almost justify a show of force, 387 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 10: a show of strength here in the States. 388 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 5: Well again, my point is renaming the Department of Defense, 389 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 5: defense of US values and the US soil the Department 390 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 5: of War communicates the wrong message. We haven't done it yet. 391 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 5: I hope we don't do it. Matching widget to widget 392 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 5: with China is not going to win. I mean, China's 393 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 5: now has a broad appeal around the world, including an 394 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 5: economic appeal. To remind we have pulled out of Africa, 395 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 5: we have closed and defunded our soft power, including USAID 396 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 5: and parts of the State Department. We're reducing our ability 397 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 5: to compete with China on a using all elements of 398 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 5: national power, which was what this Commission on National Defense 399 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 5: Strategy recommended. If we just become the war machine, we're 400 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 5: going to invite war, and that is exactly not what 401 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 5: we should be doing. 402 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 2: I probably saw the President's post on truth Social as 403 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 2: he was watching the parade that creedy mentions. This is 404 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 2: a post aimed at President she Jane Harmon. He wrote, 405 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 2: in part, please give my warmest regards to Vladimir Putin 406 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 2: and Kim Jong Un as you conspire against the United 407 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 2: States of America. 408 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 3: What's the conspiracy. 409 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 5: Well, Putin said Trump has a sense of humor. I 410 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 5: thought it was a snide comment. I don't know what 411 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 5: was in Trump's head, but I can't imagine again that 412 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 5: he really means what that says. And he's got to 413 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 5: pick a side. Why don't you pick the side of 414 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 5: American values in American democracy, which has been so valuable 415 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 5: for almost two hundred and fifty years, not just since 416 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 5: World War Two. But let's understand, people want to come here. 417 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 5: They don't want to line up and go to China 418 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 5: or Russia, and Russia has devastated its economy by this 419 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 5: wrongheaded war. Putin's only alive in this war because he's 420 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 5: being bailed out by China and North Korea. They all 421 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 5: have nukes. That is very scary. But the right answer 422 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 5: is to promote American values. That's how you promote American power. 423 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 5: That's how we will win. 424 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 10: Jena, I want to take the conversation back to Ukraine 425 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 10: if we can. As you were speaking, we were getting 426 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 10: headlines coming from the Elize from Manual Macrons speaking alongside 427 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 10: Vladimir Zelensky in Paris Emlia. Macron's and Europeans are ready 428 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 10: to provide security guarantees to Kiev. In your opinion, can 429 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 10: the Europeans do it alone? 430 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 5: Well, they can do a lot of it, and I 431 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 5: want to salute the leaders of Europe who have not 432 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 5: backed down and have consistently taken the right side of 433 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 5: this issue. They can do a lot. They can provide troops, 434 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 5: they can provide training. They can't provide all the intel 435 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 5: that we can provide, but they can, as they have 436 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 5: claimed to be doing. I hope they're doing it, use 437 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 5: at least the interest from the seas Russian app assets 438 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 5: to fund military assets into Ukraine. I'm devastated that it 439 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 5: turns out the Trump administration has been telling Ukraine for months, 440 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 5: not telling us, but at leaked. I guess a week 441 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 5: ago that those long term assets, the attack thems, the 442 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 5: long range missiles, cannot be used to attack Russia. Why 443 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 5: can't they Russia is using military airfields to attack Ukraine. 444 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 5: We're not talking about bombing kids in Russia, which is 445 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 5: what Russia is doing to Ukraine. We're talking about measures 446 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 5: to take out the offensive weapons that Russia is using 447 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 5: against Ukraine. So I'm hoping that somehow Europe will be 448 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 5: able to help with this and that President Trump will 449 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 5: figure out that the right side of this to be 450 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 5: on is to keep the commitments that he personally made, 451 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 5: and he's meeting with Zelenskia. I gathered later this week 452 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 5: and to tell Selensky, Okay, the Lindsey Graham Bloomenthal bill 453 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 5: is passing. Congress wrote it, and I can't veto it. 454 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 5: And this is how we're going to stand with you 455 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 5: and prevail for democracy. 456 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:08,719 Speaker 3: Jane, it's great to have your way in here. 457 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 2: Jane Harmon, Chair of the National Defense Strategy Commission, Thank 458 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 2: you as ever for joining us on Bloomberg TV and radio. 459 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 2: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much 460 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 2: more coming up after this. 461 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 462 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, 463 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen 464 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us 465 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: live on YouTube. 466 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 2: I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington alongside Credie Gupta. Thanks for 467 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 2: being with us here on Balance of Power on Bloomberg 468 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 2: TV and radio. You might have heard President Trump asked 469 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 2: about Jeffrey Epstein earlier. It's not only because that is 470 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 2: an obsession here in Washington, d C. The story did 471 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 2: advance a bit over the past twenty four hours with 472 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 2: a petition charge petition as it's called, filed by a 473 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 2: Democrat and Republican rocan of the Democrat, Tom Massey, the 474 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 2: Republican to force a vote on releasing the Epstein files. 475 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 2: That legislation, that piece of paper, was filed yesterday. Today, 476 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 2: some thirty three thousand Epstein files, most of them not new, 477 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 2: were released made public by the Oversight Committee, Republican controlled 478 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 2: in the House, and a news conference was held a 479 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 2: short time ago late morning with victims of Jeffrey Epstein 480 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 2: and the aforementioned representative, Tom Massey was there listen. 481 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 11: The Speaker of the House just offered a fig leaf 482 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 11: to my colleagues. They're going to vote on a non 483 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 11: binding resolution today that does absolutely nothing. They're allowing the 484 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 11: DOJ to curate all of the information that the DOJ 485 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 11: is giving them. If you've looked at the pages they've 486 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 11: released so far, they're heavily redacted, some pages are entirely redacted, 487 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 11: and ninety seven percent of this is already in the 488 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 11: public domain. 489 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 2: Ninety seven percent. Pretty group that people are waiting for 490 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 2: a client list or something. Even in thirty three thousand pages, 491 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 2: they still don't have it. 492 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 10: Yeah, and the victims saying that maybe they'll put together 493 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 10: their own client list as some sort of solution to 494 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 10: really reveal it. 495 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 2: Really interesting development today as they were taking questions. To 496 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 2: be fair, Speaker Johnson did talk about this just yesterday. 497 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 2: Here's what the Speaker of the House had to say. 498 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 12: I think we follow the truth where it leads. I 499 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,160 Speaker 12: think that's the responsibility of Congress. I think we owe 500 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 12: that to the victims, and if there are further prosecutions, 501 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 12: the need to be brought no stone unturned. I mean, 502 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 12: that's the commitment, and it's bipartisan and I'm heartened that 503 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 12: members of Congress who willing to work together on that. 504 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 3: So and look, I will say this. 505 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 12: Again, I'm emphasized this is full participation of the administration 506 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 12: and the White House. The President has the same desire 507 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 12: so long as we're protecting the innocent victims. 508 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 2: President Trump was asked about this in his news conference 509 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 2: a bit earlier in the Oval Office. He said, quote, 510 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 2: it's really a Democrat hoax. I know that no matter 511 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 2: what you do, it's going to keep going a little 512 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 2: bit different tone than we've heard from him in the past. 513 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 2: And that's where we start with our political panel. Bloomberg 514 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 2: Politics contributors Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzino are with us. 515 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,479 Speaker 2: Rick is our Republican strategist and partner at Stone Court Capital. 516 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 2: Genie is democracy visiting fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center. 517 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 2: Our democratic analyst, Janie, this is an interesting moment, a 518 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 2: Democrat hoax. We've heard those words from President Trump before, 519 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 2: but not in the past couple of weeks, as most 520 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 2: Republicans have at least given lip service to making these 521 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 2: files public. 522 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:37,959 Speaker 3: What do you make of his reaction. 523 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 13: It's astonishing because just moments earlier, I watched the press 524 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 13: conference that you were all just talking about with these victims, 525 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 13: some of whom had been trafficked, abused, raped, sexually assaulted 526 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 13: at age fourteen, fifteen sixteen, their entire lives and their 527 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 13: family lives devastated. They stood up and told these stories 528 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 13: and asked the Congress to release these the redacted Epstein piles, 529 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 13: and one of them even said, in response to a question, 530 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 13: mister President, if you think this is a hoax, come 531 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 13: down here and meet me at the Capitol, we are 532 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 13: real people, and he has the audacity just moments later 533 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 13: to say this is a Democrat hoax, which is language 534 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 13: he's only started using in the last few months, because 535 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 13: when he was out of office, he was saying, release 536 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 13: the files, let's see how the swamp that is Washington, 537 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 13: d C. And wealthy men have been abusing people. It's 538 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 13: his magabase that has been calling for this. But once 539 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 13: he got into office, he changed his tune. And I'm 540 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 13: not sure he's going to be able to get out 541 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 13: of this. And by the way, another really astonishing part 542 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 13: of this is reports that the White House has been 543 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 13: saying that any member of the GOP who votes for 544 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 13: this discharge position, they will see it as a hostile 545 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 13: act against the President and the White House. That's astonishing language, 546 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 13: and quite apart from anything the President said when he 547 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 13: wasn't in office. 548 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 10: Rick Way in here, I mean, as Geny just pointed out, 549 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 10: this is becoming or emerging to dare I say, is 550 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 10: already a very significant wedge between certain members of the House, GOP, 551 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 10: and of course the White House. How sustainable is that wedge? 552 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 7: You know? 553 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,959 Speaker 9: Look, I mean the President has won virtually every battle. 554 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 9: It's taken to the House of Representatives. These guys have 555 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 9: caved like a house of cards, over and over and over. 556 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 9: They go out and they say, hey, we're not going 557 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 9: to vote for another penny of deficit. Boom, they vote 558 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 9: for trains and noon deficit. You know, these are just 559 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 9: examples of the President getting on the phone and working 560 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 9: these guys. And by the way, that's not exclusive to 561 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 9: this president. I mean this happens in virtually every Congress, 562 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 9: but I would say the willingness for House Republicans to 563 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 9: cave to the President's desires is pretty signific. There are 564 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 9: four votes right now on the Republican side, joining what 565 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 9: we think would be two hundred and twelve votes for 566 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 9: the Democratic side to be within two votes of having 567 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 9: a discharge petition force the House of Representatives to vote, 568 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 9: and of course that's the trickiest vote is to actually 569 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 9: get it on the floor. And there has been some 570 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 9: evidence that these threats by both the Speaker and the 571 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 9: President have started to take its toll on people who 572 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 9: otherwise would want to see and have said, like Genie said, 573 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 9: for years, show us all the records, you know, give 574 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 9: us the lists, and there now I think getting cold feet, 575 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 9: so This could be one of the big sort of 576 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 9: promises to how to deal with the Epstein case, but 577 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 9: it may fall flat on its face here in just 578 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 9: the next couple of days. 579 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 2: Democrats are finding some interesting ways to get to this 580 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 2: report in the Washington Post, Genie Ron Wyden, Senator Ron 581 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 2: Biden says the Secretary of the Treasury, Scott Bessen, is 582 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 2: withholding key information that could help to illuminate the finances 583 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 2: of Jeffrey Epstein directly. He said, Bessen is quote directly 584 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 2: responsible for the decision to withhold the Epstein. 585 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 3: Files from Congress. 586 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 2: Will your party find new ways outside of a discharge 587 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 2: petition to bring these public? 588 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 13: I think that the Democrats, and I think Republicans because 589 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 13: remember this has long been a call from the Republican side. 590 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 13: It is the magabase that has been calling for this, 591 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 13: and Democrats have certainly jumped on board with that. But 592 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 13: I think regardless of what happens with this petition, it 593 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 13: will go forward. And it's so fascinating, Joe that you 594 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,959 Speaker 13: mentioned this about the Treasury secretary, because one of the 595 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 13: things we heard from the victims and their attorneys was 596 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 13: the complicity along the way, not just of Epstein and 597 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 13: Maxwell in terms of the initial perpetrators, but how they 598 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 13: have been victimized and over again in this process by 599 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 13: the people who run our law enforcement officials, attorneys generals, 600 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 13: and the like. And that includes some of the big 601 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 13: financial houses in our country that they said had been 602 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 13: and you know, we don't have all this information, had 603 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 13: been allowing, as they put it, Epstein to pull enormous 604 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 13: amounts of money and to pay these young women in 605 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,959 Speaker 13: cash and turn to blind eye. And that's why we 606 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 13: saw some of the they had been able. 607 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 5: To recoup some of that. 608 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 13: So there's a lot of complicity to go on here, 609 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 13: and the economics, the financial end of this is very 610 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 13: very real, and I suspect if, as pretty was talking about, 611 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 13: they do put together a list and at some point 612 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 13: that is released, we may see names among that, not 613 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 13: just perpetrators, but people who covered up in some of 614 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 13: these crimes. 615 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 10: Certainly a critical and heartbreaking issue. Rick put a little 616 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 10: bit of this context for us when it comes to 617 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 10: some of the other issues that are maybe plaguing Washington 618 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 10: at the moment. Talk to us about how some of 619 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 10: these kind of developments on these Epstein files, how people 620 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 10: could potentially vote when it comes to discharge petition if 621 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 10: it's put to the floor, does that bleed into some 622 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 10: of these other talks when it comes to shutdown fears, 623 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 10: when it comes to other pieces of legislation. 624 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 3: Pretty and nailed it. 625 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 9: This is a real distraction to the leadership in both 626 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 9: the House and Senate. They have a lot of work 627 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 9: to get done in order to be able to fund 628 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 9: the government by the thirtieth of September, and there seems 629 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 9: to be no real public process that's taking place right 630 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 9: now to do that. Normally you have a four corners 631 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 9: meeting the leaders of the Republican and Democratic Party and 632 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 9: both the Senate and the House get together and start 633 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 9: working on what the numbers are going to look like, 634 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 9: what are the process going to be, because it takes 635 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 9: time to work both through the Senate and the House 636 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 9: to get if in this case, a continuing resolution done 637 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 9: before the end of this month. And this is taking 638 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 9: up a lot of bandwidth. As we've seen today, the 639 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 9: entire Hill has been a buzz with press conferences and 640 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 9: threats to vote and meetings in the basement of the Capitol, 641 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 9: you know, with the Republican caucuss and none of this 642 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 9: is getting done toward actually fixing the budget pressure that 643 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 9: we're under, you know, by the end of the month. 644 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 9: So yes, there's no end to this in sight, that 645 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 9: being the Epstein file, But there is a burning deadline 646 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 9: for the government to fund itself, and that seems to 647 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 9: not be given the attention that it really deserves. 648 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 2: The deadline that hits in twenty eight days, Genie, I 649 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 2: believe that's thirteen legislative days, and so it's going to 650 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 2: have to be a CR. Obviously they're not going to 651 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 2: pass twelve budget bills between now and then. The question 652 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 2: is how long would the CR be? And granted we're 653 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 2: allowing for a potential shutdown, a lot of people think 654 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 2: that might happen, but the White House is now talking 655 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 2: about it, at least according to reports today, a year 656 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:09,240 Speaker 2: long CR. We touched on this yesterday with fun federal 657 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 2: agencies until the first quarter of twenty twenty six. 658 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 3: Can Donald Trump pull that off? Is that how this ends? 659 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,359 Speaker 13: They certainly would like to see that, and you know, 660 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 13: they've been talking about this, and you just mentioned there's 661 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 13: been rumblings from the White House, so they clean CR 662 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 13: and they would like it to go into twenty twenty six. 663 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 5: Can he pull it off. 664 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 13: I would be crazy to say he can't, because he's 665 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 13: pulled off a lot legislatively already. The problem he has 666 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 13: here is they really desperately need Senate Democrats and so 667 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,359 Speaker 13: they're going to have to deal with Senate Democrats. And 668 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 13: that is going to be the big question in my mind, 669 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 13: will Senate. 670 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 5: Democrats deal with them? 671 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 13: Because of course, again we're talking about the magabase with 672 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 13: the Epstein files, it is the Democratic base when it 673 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 13: comes to this cr they are the ones who don't 674 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,359 Speaker 13: want Democrats dealing with Trump and the Republicans at all 675 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 13: don't get them an inch. So that's gonna be I 676 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 13: think the big question what do the Democrats do? 677 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 5: And as Rick was saying, what does the leadership do? 678 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 10: Rick is Genie right there? Does Donald Trump, for lack 679 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 10: of litter term seize me? Does do they need the 680 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 10: Democrats or can Republicans do it alone when it comes 681 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 10: to getting some sort of solution for the budget. 682 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 9: Well, you need the Democrats in the Senate, you don't 683 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 9: need them in the House. The House could do a 684 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 9: party line vote, get all the Republicans to march down 685 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,959 Speaker 9: and vote on a continuing resolution with numbers that are 686 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 9: generated just by Republicans. But in the Senate, you need 687 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 9: cloture in order to take a budget built to the floor, 688 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 9: and that requires sixty votes, which means, you know, you 689 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 9: need a handful of Democrats to make up the difference, 690 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 9: and that has been the sticking point. That's why people 691 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 9: are worried about a government shutdown, because if the Democrats 692 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 9: in a Senate don't feel like they are concerns are 693 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 9: being addressed in this continuing resolution or any future deals 694 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 9: that they want to cut about recision bills or future 695 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 9: reconciliation bills that don't require their votes, then they could 696 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 9: hold things up and that's really where the action will be. 697 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 9: Unlike usually these budget fights are taken down to the 698 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 9: floor of the House. 699 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 7: Right now, the real. 700 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,359 Speaker 9: Sticking point for this could be getting that funding done 701 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 9: by September thirtieth through the Senate. 702 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 2: Well, Rick's talking about the math, which we cannot deny 703 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 2: here when it comes to the House, Genie, But we 704 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 2: did hear from Hakeen Jeffreys on the messaging for Democrats 705 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 2: leading up to a potential cr or shut down. Here's 706 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 2: what the Democratic leader in the House said. 707 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 14: We're not going to find ourselves in a situation where 708 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 14: Republicans at the eleventh hour present a partisan spending bill 709 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 14: that hurts everyday Americans, hurts children, hurts veterans, hurts seniors, 710 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:10,720 Speaker 14: and hurts the very people who this government should be helping. 711 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 14: And then Republicans expect that we are just going to 712 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 14: fall in line like they do all the time, to 713 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 14: Donald Trump's extreme agenda. 714 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 3: That's not happening. Well, he says, it's not happening, genie. 715 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 2: But this could blow up in Democrats faces pretty easily 716 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 2: here right people are sitting at home talking about recisions 717 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 2: or the many things that have broken down trust between 718 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 2: Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill. Is it a sure 719 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 2: thing that the majority party in this case would be 720 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:41,280 Speaker 2: blamed for a shutdown? 721 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 5: Nothing is sure. 722 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 13: I wouldn't say that, but I do think there is 723 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 13: more will at this point on the Democratic side, particularly 724 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 13: in the base, to stand up against the GOP, particularly 725 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 13: as the Minority leader just mentioned, if in fact they 726 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 13: are pushing for policies that don't take into account the 727 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 13: interests of the poor, the working class, and other constituencies 728 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 13: important to the Democrats. And so I do think that 729 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,879 Speaker 13: Democrats feel more emboldened after having gone along with Republicans 730 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 13: last time under Schumer to push back. 731 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 5: They could be on the losing side of that, by 732 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 5: the way, and pay for it. 733 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 13: But I think there's more fear and Democrats on the 734 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 13: Hill today that, in fact, if they go in the 735 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 13: other direction and they do work with the Trump administration 736 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 13: and the. 737 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,799 Speaker 5: GOP, and they do act in the. 738 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 13: Way Schumer did last time, that they'll pay a bigger price, 739 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,399 Speaker 13: particularly in the midterms. So I think it's anybody's bet 740 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,399 Speaker 13: whether they are in fact ready to play ball. 741 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 2: All right, Rick, what's more likely here at this point 742 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 2: an actual cr that keeps the government open or a 743 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 2: discharge petition that brings the release of the Epstein files. 744 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 3: Well, I would. 745 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,879 Speaker 9: Say for sure, the government's going to get funded at 746 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 9: some point in time. I really don't think it's in 747 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 9: either party's interests to see the government shutdown. Republicans on 748 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,919 Speaker 9: their watch don't want it, and Democrats really don't win 749 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 9: by having this. You're talking about the greatest demagogue of 750 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 9: our time being in the White House. You would not 751 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 9: want to be a Democrat thinking somehow you're going to 752 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 9: win in an argument on this one with him, And 753 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 9: so I do think that's likely to occur, even if 754 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,239 Speaker 9: it's a last minute deal. But the Epstein thing. 755 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 3: Look, I give Trump. 756 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 9: Enormous credit for having wrangled the House Republicans over and 757 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 9: over and over again to meet his requirements, and I 758 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 9: have absolutely no doubt that he'll do this again. In 759 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 9: this case, I do think he stands some risk of 760 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 9: injuring his own political credibility by doing it. 761 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 2: Well, just want to let our listeners and viewers know 762 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 2: that we're going to bring you shortly an important conversation 763 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,720 Speaker 2: live from Boston. The Mayor, I should say, the governor 764 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 2: of Massachusetts. I should stick with the state, not the city, 765 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 2: although they are in Boston. Mara Heely is going to 766 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 2: be here for an important conversation with Bloomberg in just 767 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 2: a couple of moments. And it's important in part, Genie, 768 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 2: because there was a big headline about Massachusetts today that 769 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 2: came from the White House. The Trump administration is planning 770 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 2: to reconsider a permit and may well in fact yank 771 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 2: approval of a large wind farm off the coast of Massachusetts. 772 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 2: The Interior Department, of course, would be in charge of 773 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 2: this and tends to review the project's approval issued in 774 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,239 Speaker 2: the closing days of the Biden administration. We know a 775 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 2: lot about Donald Trump's aversion to wind. Is this something 776 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 2: that he can kill from the White House? 777 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think he likely could. 778 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 13: I'm certain there'll be a fight over it. It is 779 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,880 Speaker 13: not a big shock, given to your point, his aversion 780 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 13: to it. But I am so curious to hear what 781 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 13: Governor Heely has to say about it. She is a 782 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 13: fascinating up and coming star I think in the Democratic Party, 783 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 13: and she's been a fascinating governor, and she is a 784 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,720 Speaker 13: very moderate voiced in the Democratic Party. 785 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 2: The Interior Department Rick is asking a federal court to 786 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 2: pause the City of Nantucket's challenge here to South Coast 787 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 2: wind development, since the Trump administration intends to ask that 788 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,280 Speaker 2: the matter be sent back to the Interior Department. 789 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 3: It's a bit of. 790 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 2: Procedural legal ease, a little bit of muck there, but 791 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 2: in this filing, the administration is looking for the court 792 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 2: to rule on this so called voluntary demand request. 793 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 3: Is this the end of wind energy as we know 794 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:30,800 Speaker 3: it in America? 795 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 9: Well, if you listen to President Trump, he certainly has 796 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 9: been railing about it, blaming bird strikes and all other 797 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 9: sorts of aesthetic issues against it. And look, I mean 798 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 9: to me, this is all about the businesses that were 799 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 9: created over the last two decades to actually give us 800 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 9: renewable energy. What are they going to do if this 801 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,840 Speaker 9: gets canceled. They've invested hundreds of millions of dollars in 802 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 9: these projects and the government's going to pull the rug 803 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 9: out from under them. Are they going to be compensated 804 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 9: for their losses? 805 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 3: I doubt it. 806 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 9: We're gonna have another lawsuit against the federal government. What 807 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:06,359 Speaker 9: do we need that for? 808 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:07,359 Speaker 7: So? 809 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,719 Speaker 9: I think the incredible disruption that occurs by taking these 810 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 9: things out of useful purpose, especially when they're getting towards 811 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:22,280 Speaker 9: the end of their development period, is just a needless 812 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 9: I really I struggle to understand the economic reasons why 813 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 9: this would be the case. 814 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. 815 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,840 Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 816 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 817 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,399 Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at New Time 818 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 2: Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.