Speaker 1: You know, T T.
Speaker 2: When we think about the top of the new year.
Speaker 2: In this series, people always talking about drink more water,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna eat more leafy greens, and I'm gonna do this,
Speaker 2: this and that. But one of the things I've been
Speaker 2: seeing that feels like a trend lately is those personalized
Speaker 2: little vitamin pacts.
Speaker 1: Have you seen those?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: I have, and they're all over my Instagram. I see
Speaker 1: those just as much as I see all of these
Speaker 1: wig ads. And that really got me thinking, how much
Speaker 1: vitamins is too much vitamins? Yeah? And are these vitamins
Speaker 1: really doing what they're saying they're doing or is it
Speaker 1: just like really good marketing.
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: This I love Lucy Juice. I want to know. I'm
Speaker 2: t T and I'm Zakiyah and from Spotify.
Speaker 4: This is Dope Laps.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that makes us
Speaker 2: hardcore science, pop culture, and a healthy dose of friendship. Well,
Speaker 2: we just talked about immunity TT and we bumped into
Speaker 2: some things that we've realized maybe we need a little
Speaker 2: bit more information about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the immune system is so complex and so many
Speaker 1: parts of our bodies play a role, and so then
Speaker 1: it makes me think about zooming out and how do
Speaker 1: we keep these other parts of our body healthy? Is
Speaker 1: there things that we can do? And then the natural
Speaker 1: progression for me is what am I putting into my body?
Speaker 1: This week, we're talking all about vitamins. We've seen so
Speaker 1: many different supplements and vitamins on the market, but how
Speaker 1: do they really work?
Speaker 2: Let's get into the recitation.
Speaker 1: So what do we know?
Speaker 2: Well, I think we can all agree that vitamins are
Speaker 2: generally important for our overall health and our immune system.
Speaker 2: We learned that in the last lab.
Speaker 1: And I know that when I go into my local
Speaker 1: CVS or Rite Aid or Walgreens that there is a
Speaker 1: huge aisle filled with vitamins and supplements. So I know
Speaker 1: that that industry is big.
Speaker 2: Yes, And if you think about that entire aisle, there
Speaker 2: are some vitamins and supplements that have pretty well documented
Speaker 2: biological functions, Like we know what they do.
Speaker 1: And I think that people use the words vitamins and
Speaker 1: supplements interchangeably, but I don't know if that's right.
Speaker 2: That's a really good question, is it right? So I
Speaker 2: think that leads us right into what we want to know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I want to know what the difference is
Speaker 1: between vitamins and supplements and what should we be thinking
Speaker 1: about if we're thinking about taking them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then even though we may know what a
Speaker 2: vitamin or supplement does, what's the best way to get it?
Speaker 2: You know, how does our body use it or absorb it?
Speaker 2: Is there a best practice? Because I think I've seen
Speaker 2: like liquid vitamins, pills.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people say I've tried them all. But then it's
Speaker 1: just like, is a balanced diet good enough for some
Speaker 1: of these vitamins? I don't know. Should we be taking
Speaker 1: vitamins and supplements? How much does it work? Right?
Speaker 2: Let's jump into the dissection, but.
Speaker 1: Our guest for today's lab is doctor Alice Lichtenstein. My
Speaker 1: name is.
Speaker 3: Doctor Alice Lichtenstein. I'm the Gershov Professor of Nutrition Science
Speaker 3: and Policy at the Friedman's School University.
Speaker 1: Doctor Lichtenstein is also director of the Cardiovascular Nutrition Team
Speaker 1: at the Jean Mayer USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging.
Speaker 2: We know our bodies need vitamins and minerals for optimum function,
Speaker 2: but there is a lot of terms floating around. It
Speaker 2: feels like sometimes they're used interchangeably. So let's start with vitamins.
Speaker 3: What are they A vitamin is an organic compound that
Speaker 3: our bodies need to grow and maintain, and yet we
Speaker 3: can't make it ourselves, so we have to get it
Speaker 3: from the diet.
Speaker 2: There are thirteen essential vitamins necessary for our bodies to
Speaker 2: function properly, and our bodies make two of them, vitamin
Speaker 2: D and K. But the rest we have to get
Speaker 2: from outside sources. So that's vitamins A, C, and E,
Speaker 2: and then the B vitamins like diamin, rabolflavin, niasin, pantothenic acid, biotin.
Speaker 2: I know, we've seen that for our nails and stuff bzix,
Speaker 2: B twelve, and fol eight. We have to get all
Speaker 2: of that from outside the body.
Speaker 1: And different vitamins are absorbed by the body in different ways.
Speaker 1: So when we think.
Speaker 3: About vitamins, we think about them in two groups. One
Speaker 3: is fat soluble and the other is soluble.
Speaker 1: Fat soluble means that the vitamins need fat for proper
Speaker 1: absorption in the body. So some well known fat soluble
Speaker 1: vitamins are vitamin A, D, E, and K. And that
Speaker 1: makes sense because the vitamin D that I normally see
Speaker 1: it's a pill, but it looks like there's oil inside
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 3: And it turns out for fat valuble vitamins, we don't
Speaker 3: have the capacity to easily excrete them. It's important to
Speaker 3: consume them with a food that also has a little
Speaker 3: bit of fat in it, because we need dietary fat
Speaker 3: to absorb fat soluble vitamins. The concern with fat soluble
Speaker 3: vitamins is since the urine is an aqueous malieu, we
Speaker 3: can't excrete fat saluble vitamins in the urine.
Speaker 2: Okay, first of all, shout out to Alice. We're using
Speaker 2: the term aqueous milieu. Urine has never sounded so elegant.
Speaker 1: So Doctor Lichtenstein said that there are fat soluble vitamins
Speaker 1: and water soluble vitamins, and one of the differences between
Speaker 1: the two of them is that water soluble vitamins are
Speaker 1: easily excreted through our urine, while fat soluble vitamins aren't.
Speaker 1: And because of that, high levels of fat soluble vitamins
Speaker 1: can accumulate in your body over time, which isn't really
Speaker 1: great in terms.
Speaker 3: Of the water soluble That tends to be the B
Speaker 3: vitamins and vitamins C and we're not as concerned in
Speaker 3: terms of high intakes. We are concerned about very high
Speaker 3: intakes because excess that our bodies can't use get excreted
Speaker 3: in the urine and it puts a little bit of
Speaker 3: stress on the kidney if you have a very high
Speaker 3: intake of water soluble vitamins.
Speaker 2: Yeah, remember last week when doctor Gupta said Americans have
Speaker 2: the most expensive p that's because it's so full of
Speaker 2: unabsorbed water soluble vitamins.
Speaker 1: All right, So that gets vitamins down. What about minerals?
Speaker 3: A mineral is as it indicates, it's a mineral from
Speaker 3: the periodic table. It's specific ones that again we need
Speaker 3: for our body to function optimally, and we have to
Speaker 3: get it from.
Speaker 1: Get so vitamins come from plants and animals, where minerals
Speaker 1: are inorganic and come from rocks, soil, and water, things
Speaker 1: like iron, calcium, and zinc.
Speaker 2: And even though we get them from different sources, both
Speaker 2: vitamins and minerals are important for our bodies to function properly,
Speaker 2: and in some cases they work together, you know, T T.
Speaker 2: When we think back to like basic biology that we had,
Speaker 2: do you remember all those cycles? And I'm not going
Speaker 2: to try to haunt.
Speaker 1: You the crab cycle. Let me tell you, don't ask
Speaker 1: me about the crab cycle. That was a dark time
Speaker 1: in my academic life as a high school student.
Speaker 2: So if you think about what you know about cycles
Speaker 2: like that, When we consider metabolism and different processes, our bodies,
Speaker 2: our little cellular factories, they're constantly trying to break down
Speaker 2: things and put things together, and sometimes they need help,
Speaker 2: and that help often comes in the form of cofactors
Speaker 2: and enzymes.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is something that I do remember a little
Speaker 1: bit about. Z are proteins that help speed up a
Speaker 1: chemical reaction in our bodies. So they're like biological catalysts
Speaker 1: and cofactors encompass a wide range of compounds, but they're
Speaker 1: sort of like enzymes, little helpers. Their presence makes it
Speaker 1: possible for enzymes to do their thing.
Speaker 2: Look at you, I got an age. You're not an engineer.
Speaker 2: You a biologist.
Speaker 1: Oh let me tell my mom. She's gonna be so proud.
Speaker 3: A cofactor is needed to catalyze an enzymatic reaction. So
Speaker 3: if we want to do something like utilize glucose for energy,
Speaker 3: certain of the enzymes that are involved in that process
Speaker 3: need cofactors.
Speaker 2: And guess what, Now that we know the difference between
Speaker 2: vitamins minerals, enzymes, and cofactors. Would you be surprised to
Speaker 2: learn that there are some overlap between these groups?
Speaker 4: Oh boy.
Speaker 3: Many of the vitamins and minerals that are essential essential,
Speaker 3: meaning that we need to get them from outside the body,
Speaker 3: that is, the diet, are components of cofactors directly.
Speaker 1: A good example of this is iron and vitamin C.
Speaker 1: In order for the iron to be sufficiently absorbed into
Speaker 1: our bodies, it kind of needs vitamin C to help
Speaker 1: it along, so they bind together to help pass through
Speaker 1: our digestive system so that the iron doesn't just break
Speaker 1: apart and then we lose all those great vitamins. Vitamin
Speaker 1: C is a cofactor that helps with iron absorption so
Speaker 1: that we don't lose all those really great minerals that
Speaker 1: we're trying to get from the iron.
Speaker 2: So vitamins and minerals are essential, and we know we
Speaker 2: need them to come from outside the body, mainly through
Speaker 2: our diet. But what if we aren't getting enough of
Speaker 2: a certain type of vitamin or mineral from our diet.
Speaker 2: That's where supplements come in.
Speaker 1: Supplements our way to get these nutrients outside of the
Speaker 1: food that we eat. They can be vitamins, minerals, amino acids, enzymes,
Speaker 1: or a combination of any of these things. They also
Speaker 1: come in different forms, so pills, powders, gels, and liquids.
Speaker 2: I think the important distinction is that supplements are anything
Speaker 2: that's not a whole food fo So you can have
Speaker 2: a supplement and it is a vitamin or it is
Speaker 2: a mineral. But there are also supplements that are not
Speaker 2: vitamins or minerals, you know, when we think about herbal
Speaker 2: supplements and things like that, and so as we move through,
Speaker 2: we'll talk about vitamins, those things that are part of
Speaker 2: those essentral vitamins we've listed earlier, and then non vitamins,
Speaker 2: which we'll just call supplements. I have seen so many supplements,
Speaker 2: especially over the past few years. A supplement I've been
Speaker 2: taken for a long time. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: remember this from grad school TT is an enzyme lactase.
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I do remember.
Speaker 2: So I'm lactose intolerant and I take lactase, which is
Speaker 2: an enzyme that breaks down the sugar lactose that's found
Speaker 2: in dairy so it makes me able to comfortably digest
Speaker 2: those foods.
Speaker 1: And I'm in denial about my lactose intolerance, so I
Speaker 1: just am auchya.
Speaker 2: Good luck to anybody sitting with TT Okay, good luck.
Speaker 1: To you, Jimmy. In America, dietary supplement used has been
Speaker 1: growing since the nineteen seventies and some of the most
Speaker 1: popular supplements are multivitamins, vitamin C D, protein okay, calcium,
Speaker 1: vitamin B, omega three, fish oil, probiotics.
Speaker 2: Magnesium, and iron. I remember I used to take these
Speaker 2: fish oil pills. And this is also in grad school.
Speaker 2: I felt like I needed a lot of things for
Speaker 2: health and grad school, but I probably just need to
Speaker 2: change my environment.
Speaker 1: I just had to get out of that lab.
Speaker 2: I had to get out of the lab.
Speaker 1: Baby.
Speaker 2: I remember I would take it and then later in
Speaker 2: the day you would have like a burp and it
Speaker 2: would taste so fishy. It was awful.
Speaker 1: That's why I try and take them at night so
Speaker 1: that I don't have to deal with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, I'll just burp this up in my sleep,
Speaker 2: or it can be the first thing in the morning
Speaker 2: in morning breastmels, straight krill and startine.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: You were the first person I knew that to liquid
Speaker 2: multi vitamins.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I feel like I fall victims and
Speaker 1: stuff on the internet all the time, and I saw,
Speaker 1: you know, oh, you're not really absorbing a lot of
Speaker 1: your vitamins. You should take it as a liquid because
Speaker 1: then it absorbed faster. So it's like, yes, I'm taking
Speaker 1: liquid vitamins. Imagine how to drink a cup of slurry.
Speaker 2: It's a flurry, just stuff suspended, and that's an aqueous milieu.
Speaker 1: Okay, you eat protein powder?
Speaker 2: Do I eat protein powder?
Speaker 1: That stuff is so gritty you gotta chew it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: nobody that's doing a protein powder. It's sitting there just
Speaker 1: sipping delicately. Y'all are out there grinding that sand between
Speaker 1: your teeth.
Speaker 2: Doctor Lichtenstein says that generally, if you're consuming a healthy diet,
Speaker 2: then you probably don't need extra vitamins and supplements, and
Speaker 2: don't worry. We're going to talk about what exactly a
Speaker 2: healthy diet means later in this lab. In fact, taking
Speaker 2: too many supplements can actually make your body absorb less.
Speaker 3: When we think about the quality of nutrients, what we
Speaker 3: really think about is whether they're available to the body
Speaker 3: or not. Obviously, with nutrients and food, they're going to
Speaker 3: be available because we've been able to grow and remain
Speaker 3: healthy and reproduce as a society. As far as supplements, frequently,
Speaker 3: the higher your dose, the less you actually will absorb.
Speaker 1: That's crazy because you know people be taking those ten
Speaker 1: thousand milligram some of them, and doctor Lichtenstein is saying
Speaker 1: that more is just more.
Speaker 2: It ain't better now if you have an actual deficiency
Speaker 2: and that's how much you need. But ten thousand milligrams
Speaker 2: isn't what you need for everything? Okay, right, you got
Speaker 2: to see what the daily recommended value is. Some of
Speaker 2: that stuff is micrograms, not milligrams.
Speaker 1: Yeah, plit that voll around?
Speaker 2: Does it look like a U or is it an M?
Speaker 2: That's really important. There's also something to keep in mind
Speaker 2: if you take multiple different supplements, the specific combination of
Speaker 2: vitamins and minerals needs to be right because one can
Speaker 2: affect the other.
Speaker 3: And then there's certain nutrients that if you have a
Speaker 3: real high dose of wand and a regular amount of
Speaker 3: the other, it may actually interfere. On the other hand,
Speaker 3: we know that vitamin C helps us absorb iron, vitamin
Speaker 3: D helps us absorb calcium. So I think we have
Speaker 3: to be careful about making general statements and recognize that
Speaker 3: each nutrient is unique. But Caveman did very well and
Speaker 3: they lived without nutrients supplements, So I would say we're
Speaker 3: pretty safe.
Speaker 2: Once our bodies absorb these vitamins and minerals from our
Speaker 2: diet or supplements, the nutrients move into the bloodstream through digestion.
Speaker 1: What about what you do to the food before you
Speaker 1: eat it, Like, is it more potent if the food
Speaker 1: is raw. I know that there are a lot of
Speaker 1: people who do only raw vegetables because they want to
Speaker 1: maximize the amount of nutrients that they're taken in. Does
Speaker 1: that matter?
Speaker 3: Does it matter if I cook the food or I
Speaker 3: don't cook the food. So in terms of nutrients and food,
Speaker 3: for the most part, they are what we call biologically
Speaker 3: available in a form that we can use, and most
Speaker 3: of the time it doesn't matter if they're cooked or uncooked.
Speaker 2: And biologically available just means that your body can absorb
Speaker 2: the nutrients from the food or whatever the source is.
Speaker 3: Now, for certain nutrients there could be a little bit
Speaker 3: of a difference. Vitamin C is destroyed by heat. It
Speaker 3: doesn't mean if you just cook broccoli you're going to
Speaker 3: lose all the vitamin C, but you'll lose a little
Speaker 3: bit of it. For something like vitamin A, which is
Speaker 3: in the form of carotenoids in food, it actually turns
Speaker 3: out if you cook tomatoes and things like carrots, it
Speaker 3: becomes more biologically available because you're breaking down the cells
Speaker 3: the structure that's preventing it from getting out.
Speaker 1: Cookie carrots, Eat your broccoli raw.
Speaker 2: So really none of this is mattering too too much.
Speaker 2: You just need to be eating this stuff, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Just eat the vegetables. So for most people, supplements aren't necessary,
Speaker 1: and in fact, if you're taking too much of a
Speaker 1: supplement or the wrong combination of supplements, it can actually
Speaker 1: hurt you.
Speaker 2: But sometimes people do need to take supplements. For example,
Speaker 2: it's common for vitamin D levels to dip in the winter,
Speaker 2: especially during a pandemic when people are stuck at home.
Speaker 1: Right, how do we know how much of something to take.
Speaker 1: I've seen supplements with huge doses.
Speaker 3: It's best not to choose one that's above the recommended
Speaker 3: dietary allowance, And you can determine that by looking at
Speaker 3: the nutrient facts label because you'll see adv value, which
Speaker 3: is daily value. And you don't want to take a
Speaker 3: product that is above one hundred percent unless you're secifically
Speaker 3: told to buy your healthcare provider.
Speaker 1: Just like with anything, we highly recommend talking to your doctor.
Speaker 1: You can even get a blood panel done to see
Speaker 1: if you have any particular deficiencies, but your doctor should
Speaker 1: be the one to tell you if you need supplements
Speaker 1: and which ones well.
Speaker 2: Doctor Lickenstein said, Hey, I know you're trying to get
Speaker 2: five thousand percent, but that's not it, girl.
Speaker 1: And it turns out it's not as simple as excreting
Speaker 1: what you don't need.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially if it's something that is fat soluble, you're
Speaker 2: probably not even excreting it.
Speaker 1: It's just building up. Oh, you're gonna start crying it.
Speaker 2: Have you to do an audit.
Speaker 1: Let's take a break, and when we come back, we'll
Speaker 1: talk more about what exactly you mean by a healthy diet,
Speaker 1: trending supplements, and the importance of education and access. We're back,
Speaker 1: and I can't believe January is almost over already, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two is flying. By next week, our New Year
Speaker 1: series comes to a close with a lab all about
Speaker 1: habits with doctor Wendy Wood. Habits are different than resolutions.
Speaker 1: Since we've been learning so much about health and wellness, sleep,
Speaker 1: a healthy immune system and now nutrition. Now we want
Speaker 1: to learn how to create new habits that really stick.
Speaker 2: But for now, let's get back to the lab. We're
Speaker 2: talking to doctor Lickenstein all about vitamins, minerals, and supplements.
Speaker 2: Earlier in the lab, we learned that we should be
Speaker 2: able to get most of the essential nutrients we need
Speaker 2: from a healthy diet. But let's break that down. What
Speaker 2: is a healthy diet?
Speaker 3: The general guidelines is a diet that's rich in fruits
Speaker 3: and vegetables, whole grains, low and non fat dairy products, fish,
Speaker 3: leg you other plant sources of protein like nuts and
Speaker 3: then poultry, and moderate amounts of meat, and that is
Speaker 3: limited in added sugar and added salt.
Speaker 2: Do you remember the food pyramid?
Speaker 1: Yes, And we talked about that in Lap thirty three
Speaker 1: supermarket sweep about how it's changed twice since we learned
Speaker 1: about it in school.
Speaker 2: All that bread at the bottom. If they have eleven
Speaker 2: servants of grains, have a loaf of bread for snacks.
Speaker 1: Man, we were bloated.
Speaker 2: It wasn't right. It was not right. Well now we know, well,
Speaker 2: at least for now, the recommended approach is to go
Speaker 2: high in fruits and veggies and lagoons.
Speaker 3: Not only will you get all the vitamins and minerals
Speaker 3: you need, but you'll also get an adequate amount of fiber.
Speaker 3: And fiber is important for keeping our GI system moving
Speaker 3: and maintaining a healthy microbiome, that is, the little bacteria
Speaker 3: that are in our GI system. And the benefit of
Speaker 3: consuming a healthy dietary pattern like that, accommodating it to
Speaker 3: all our personal preferences and our ethnic backgrounds and religious
Speaker 3: traditions and all those kinds of things. There should be
Speaker 3: a way, regardless, to shift anybody's dietary pattern from one
Speaker 3: that may be less healthy to one that's more healthy.
Speaker 1: According to doctor Lichtenstein, if you are not getting enough
Speaker 1: of certain vitamins, it's best to first try to incorporate
Speaker 1: that vitamin into your diet rather than taking a supplement.
Speaker 3: Maybe there's small changes you can make that will again
Speaker 3: relieve the need for a supplement. Now, why do I
Speaker 3: think that's more important than just automatically going to a supplement.
Speaker 3: It's because if we get our nutrients from food, we
Speaker 3: got a lot of other compounds.
Speaker 1: Foods you eat aren't just packed with vitamins and minerals.
Speaker 1: There's also stuff like fiber, and phytochemicals, so fhyto chemicals
Speaker 1: are compounds from plants, and those are really good for
Speaker 1: you as well. Plus it's going to be really hard
Speaker 1: to ow overdo it with healthy foods as opposed to supplements,
Speaker 1: where too much of it can hurt you. You can
Speaker 1: eat as much kale as you want, go ahead, go crazy.
Speaker 3: And it may be very difficult to teach them mountings
Speaker 3: visually because generally they occur in groups, and a lot
Speaker 3: of them actually are related to the colors of fruits
Speaker 3: and vegetables. So if you are gonna pick let's say,
Speaker 3: a green leafy vesta first salad, you're better off picking
Speaker 3: spinach or kale or even romain as opposed to iceberg,
Speaker 3: because the color indicates how concentrated the nutrients are.
Speaker 2: M that means beige foods be gone. But doctor Lickenstein
Speaker 2: mentioned one notable exception related to vitamin B twelve, which
Speaker 2: we get from animals. If someone is vegan, they might
Speaker 2: need to consider taking a supplement if they aren't getting
Speaker 2: the recommended level of B twelve in their diet.
Speaker 1: It seems like every week there's a particular food, herb,
Speaker 1: or supplement that gets the spotlight for its reported or
Speaker 1: supposed benefits.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know this is really nothing new. In
Speaker 2: the early nineteen hundreds, scientists discovered that food contained more
Speaker 2: than just protein, carbohydrates, and fat, and those additional substances
Speaker 2: were called vitamins. In the forties, government sponsored amounts of
Speaker 2: vitamins and minerals began to get recommended, and vitamin content
Speaker 2: was also advertised in products from ovaltine to orange juice
Speaker 2: to even doughnuts. Cod liver oil was marketed as bottled sunshine.
Speaker 2: Was that for vitamin D?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't think that marketing would have worked on me.
Speaker 1: I remember the ovaltine commercials were ovaltine please, Yes, we
Speaker 1: were drinking that. It was delicious. Today, the vitamins and
Speaker 1: supplements industry is worth about thirty five billion with a
Speaker 1: B dollars, and social media has only fueled the fire
Speaker 1: of different trends. For example, ginger has been proven to
Speaker 1: help with nausea Turmeric, which hasn't technically been scientifically proven
Speaker 1: to have health benefits yet, but lots of people and
Speaker 1: culture swear by it or it's anti inflammatory properties. Red
Speaker 1: wine and dark chocolate had a moment when antioxidants were
Speaker 1: all the rage. Elderberry honestly has had a moment in
Speaker 1: this pandemic. I think that a lot of folks have
Speaker 1: been seeing a lot of messaging saying that elderberry can
Speaker 1: help with if you ever have COVID or preventing COVID.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so this would be an example of a
Speaker 2: non vitamin, non mineral supplement, right. But when we look
Speaker 2: at what the studies have shown us, there have been
Speaker 2: small number of studies that have looked at elderberry. There's
Speaker 2: some preliminary research that says elderberry might relieve symptoms of
Speaker 2: flu or other types of upper respiratory infections. And I
Speaker 2: think that's where things get cloudy, because relieving symptoms is
Speaker 2: different from protecting against infection, right, Right, there's no published
Speaker 2: research studies that have looked at elderberry when it comes
Speaker 2: to COVID nineteen and how it may or may not help.
Speaker 2: And I know people are making their own elderberry syrup, right.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to spot it elder tree out
Speaker 2: their nature. So maybe I'll need to do even if
Speaker 2: it hit me in the face, right, Okay, I need
Speaker 2: to do some research. But it's a little tricky because
Speaker 2: if you are having raw or unriped elderberry. They have
Speaker 2: toxic substances and so you can get sick. So they
Speaker 2: have to really be cooked. That has to really be safe,
Speaker 2: you know. And so it's just so many different things
Speaker 2: that you have to consider before you take on a
Speaker 2: new supplement into your routine.
Speaker 1: Another example we can get to is Saint John's ward,
Speaker 1: which is a mood regulator see moss, which is rich
Speaker 1: in many vitamins and minerals. And one of the TikTok
Speaker 1: trends that was big over the last couple of years
Speaker 1: was liquid chlorophyll.
Speaker 2: And it feels like there's so many different factors. When
Speaker 2: you're on social media, you can see somebody taking something
Speaker 2: and it can feel like, oh, they're taking this thing
Speaker 2: for their health, but you don't know if it's culturally relevant.
Speaker 2: And I think things become tricky because even with turmeric, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's no trial that's shown turmeric as an anti inflammatory,
Speaker 2: but turmeric has kurcumin in it, which has been shown
Speaker 2: as an anti inflammatory. So then it becomes like, well,
Speaker 2: how much turmeric do you have to have to get
Speaker 2: the effects of kirkcumin, And so it can become really
Speaker 2: hard to tell what's what. And then you start to think, well,
Speaker 2: is it better to take this from a whole food
Speaker 2: to get the curcumin from turmeric, or is it better
Speaker 2: to take a kirkcuman piel like who knows? Or should
Speaker 2: I just take as an anti inflammatory? You know, it
Speaker 2: just becomes so tricky.
Speaker 1: And then some of these people aren't honest, so they'll say, oh,
Speaker 1: it includes tumeric which is an anti inflammatory, which you know, true,
Speaker 1: it'll have such trace amounts of tumoric in it that
Speaker 1: it actually isn't really helping you.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing you never know. And this also
Speaker 2: has this other layer that's important to remember, and that's
Speaker 2: that not all supplements are FDA approved, right, so you
Speaker 2: really have to be careful and do your own research
Speaker 2: about safety. I remember when I taught an introbiology course,
Speaker 2: one of the papers that we looked at was like
Speaker 2: a study where folks were looking at different vitamins or supplements,
Speaker 2: not necessarily vitamins, but supplements and herbs using kind of
Speaker 2: DNA bar coding to see if they were actually what
Speaker 2: they were marketed as.
Speaker 1: Baby and what did you find? Tell us, you know,
Speaker 1: roof off this thing.
Speaker 2: It was like invasive grasses and stuff. So it's like
Speaker 2: we just want to get rid of these weeds. We're
Speaker 2: just pop them in this jail cat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like the whole like organic thing where
Speaker 1: you could put the word organic on a label if
Speaker 1: you meet certain criteria. But I think that a lot
Speaker 1: of people don't know what the criteria is. Yeah, you think, oh,
Speaker 1: this means that it's good for me, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: always mean that it's good for you. Like organic sugar,
Speaker 1: you can't eat a pound of organic sugar and singale sugar.
Speaker 1: That's like having a carrot. It's not.
Speaker 2: And I think this gets us to this next question
Speaker 2: of like, if I have to consider all of these
Speaker 2: different things, is it safe, is it regulated? Is it
Speaker 2: actually what these people are saying it is? Is it
Speaker 2: worth getting into these different trending superfoods and supplements.
Speaker 3: Currently, when we make dietary recommendations, we're asking people to
Speaker 3: focus on the whole dietary pattern, all the foods and
Speaker 3: beverages that are consumed in a day, not individual nutrients
Speaker 3: and not individual foods.
Speaker 1: I think what happens, what a lot of us fall
Speaker 1: victim too, is that people are looking for a magic
Speaker 1: pill or one thing that's just going to make it
Speaker 1: all better. And the way these products are being marketed
Speaker 1: kind of speaks to that. But according to doctor Lichtenstein,
Speaker 1: the most important thing you can do is stick to
Speaker 1: a consistent diet that covers the basics.
Speaker 3: If we are eating a diet that's tie in fruits
Speaker 3: and vegetables, it means we're not eating other things, and
Speaker 3: you don't know if the effect is due to what
Speaker 3: you're eating or what it's replacing from the diet. But
Speaker 3: the best data is for the whole dietary pattern. There's
Speaker 3: no one food that's going to make it or break it.
Speaker 3: It's the whole goomish all put together.
Speaker 2: This is really a good point because I think it's
Speaker 2: tempting for us to want to take a supplement in
Speaker 2: lieu of eating lots of leafy green vegetables. Well, not
Speaker 2: mean you know, I love kill.
Speaker 1: My friend is after our eyeballs and kill.
Speaker 2: And it's easier and quicker and more convenient to get
Speaker 2: those vitamins in the form of a pill. Right, But
Speaker 2: if you're taking a pill, you may be emitting certain
Speaker 2: food groups and fiber, you're losing that and vital chemicals.
Speaker 2: Like we mentioned before, and you could be unintentionally creating
Speaker 2: another gap while you're trying to bulk up on whatever
Speaker 2: you could have gotten from the leafy greens.
Speaker 1: Right, my friend, she sends me pictures of these beautiful salads.
Speaker 1: I still have them in my phone. At one point
Speaker 1: I had it as my background on my phone. That
Speaker 1: was so beautiful and so colorful, just like doctor Lichtenstein
Speaker 1: was saying. And so me, I don't really eat salad,
Speaker 1: but if I take a vitamin, because I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not eating this kale salad like my friends Akia,
Speaker 1: I'm going to take this vitamin. Zakia also has tomatoes
Speaker 1: in there, she might have some nuts, she might have
Speaker 1: some berries and some cheese. So she's getting a really
Speaker 1: well balanced meal. And me, I'm just taking this one
Speaker 1: pill and getting, you know, a few of the vitamins.
Speaker 1: So she's getting way more because she has a more
Speaker 1: diverse plate.
Speaker 2: But don't be fool, it's not all peal time in
Speaker 2: my stories. You see what it really is. Another thing
Speaker 2: doctor Lickenstein explained to us is nutrient fortification, which is
Speaker 2: when the nutrients are added back into a food during
Speaker 2: processing to maintain or improve the nutritional value.
Speaker 3: Fluid milk always says vitamin G. If we buy the
Speaker 3: low fat or fat fruit, it also has added vitamin A.
Speaker 3: That's because when the fat's taken out, the vitamin A
Speaker 3: is taken out, So just put back up to the
Speaker 3: normal levels. We should be consuming mostly whole grain products. However,
Speaker 3: if we do consume enriched grand products, legally they have
Speaker 3: to contain thiamine, niasin, riboflavon, folate, and iron, and that
Speaker 3: includes wheat, so that would be white flour and anything
Speaker 3: made with white flour, and it includes cornmeal, and it
Speaker 3: includes white rice.
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to start saying this is the
Speaker 2: best thing since slice whole grain bred. It's going to
Speaker 2: really make that decision. Yeah, the dark of the bread,
Speaker 2: the sweeter of the nutrients. We're really fortunate that we
Speaker 2: have a lot of foods on the market that allow
Speaker 2: you to adapt depending on whatever your nutritional needs are.
Speaker 2: So if you need low fat, or you need non dairy,
Speaker 2: or you need gluten free gluten free, or you need
Speaker 2: more fiber, there are different food combinations like that. There
Speaker 2: are a lot of options, but not every person has
Speaker 2: access to every option. Ideally, everyone will be able to
Speaker 2: get these vitamins and other nutrients from their diets. But
Speaker 2: what we know is there are so many factors that
Speaker 2: go into somebody's diet, things like income, the price point
Speaker 2: of these foods, the location of stores, time to cook,
Speaker 2: and then dietary needs and allergies.
Speaker 3: Sometimes it can be difficult to get the components of
Speaker 3: a healthy diet because we live in food deserts. However,
Speaker 3: if there's a demand, usually regardless of who the purveyor
Speaker 3: is in that area, they will meet the demand because
Speaker 3: it means that they're going to sell more product. But
Speaker 3: it has to be something that's done in partnership. On
Speaker 3: a larger scale, we have seen more of it because
Speaker 3: we do see more let's say, whole grain bread options
Speaker 3: and cracker options and pasta options, and that's because people
Speaker 3: are buying it. But I think we also have to
Speaker 3: work with policy makers to see how we can make
Speaker 3: better options in terms of purchasing food and having healthier
Speaker 3: options readily available so one does not have to go
Speaker 3: out of their way in order to get it.
Speaker 2: And it's not just access to healthy options. We also
Speaker 2: need more education about nutrition and the right food here,
Speaker 2: starting from when we're young.
Speaker 3: If we want the current generation to develop into adults
Speaker 3: that can make healthy choices and have basic cooking skills.
Speaker 3: Then we have to provide it to them.
Speaker 1: So if you have young kids, maybe start talking to
Speaker 1: them about different kinds of food and where they come from.
Speaker 2: After the high all day season, I've seen those kids
Speaker 2: with their little cooking sets and they are serving the
Speaker 2: different foods up and baby. The children are a future. Okay.
Speaker 2: I saw a play pizza and they had mushrooms and
Speaker 2: olives on it. Every play pizza I ever saw growing
Speaker 2: up with cheese or half just cheese. There was never
Speaker 2: any vegetables. Okay, so I have hope for the children.
Speaker 1: All right, it's time for one thing, Isekia, what's your
Speaker 1: one thing this week?
Speaker 2: My one thing this week is something that's been good
Speaker 2: to me. If you follow me on Instagram, you've seen
Speaker 2: me using these. But I've also been able to share
Speaker 2: this with our producer Jennie and the doors to the
Speaker 2: cook where church are open. I really enjoy my nonstick pants.
Speaker 2: They are nonstick all clad pants. They're making beautiful eggs
Speaker 2: y'or just sliding right on off the pan. And I
Speaker 2: want that for everybody. I want you to stop scraping
Speaker 2: half your egg off the bottom of your pan. Ginny
Speaker 2: is a believer. I've converted her. She has a calflon
Speaker 2: and I just want us all as we think about
Speaker 2: this new year, New U series, to really allow your
Speaker 2: eggs and other things that you're cooking to be great
Speaker 2: in the kitchen. I'm going to link those in the
Speaker 2: show notes.
Speaker 1: That sounds amazing and I will be cooking that link.
Speaker 2: What's your one thing this week? So?
Speaker 1: My one thing this week is actually a course that
Speaker 1: a past guest expert that we've had on two Labs,
Speaker 1: doctor Rupolyi LeMay. I'm sure a lot of you remember
Speaker 1: that name. She is doing a course through the Johns
Speaker 1: Hopkins University, Bloomberg School for Public Health, and it's a
Speaker 1: course titled COVID Vaccine Ambassador Training, how to Talk to Parents.
Speaker 1: It's free. You can take this course and you should
Speaker 1: learn how to respond to misinformation, how to listen actively,
Speaker 1: how to communicate, and how to communicate public health policy.
Speaker 1: So it's about two hours, it's beginner level, it's one
Speaker 1: hundred percent free, it's one hundred percent online, and I
Speaker 1: think that it's an amazing tool to having your toolkit.
Speaker 1: You get a certificate at the end, and it can
Speaker 1: arm you with things that you need to be able
Speaker 1: to have really productive conversations about COVID and COVID nineteen vaccination.
Speaker 2: Nice. Nice.
Speaker 1: The link will be in the show notes, so make
Speaker 1: sure you check it out there. Our credits this week
Speaker 1: are being read by one of our og listeners, Alexandra.
Speaker 5: That's it for Lab forty eight. Call Dope Labs at
Speaker 5: two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight
Speaker 5: and tell t T and Zakiya what you thought or
Speaker 5: give them an idea for a lab they should do
Speaker 5: this semester. T T and Zakiya really love hearing from you.
Speaker 5: That's two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight,
Speaker 5: And don't forget there's so much more for you to
Speaker 5: dig into on the website. There will be a cheat
Speaker 5: sheet for today's lab, additional links and resources in the
Speaker 5: show notes, Plus you can sign up for the newsletter
Speaker 5: check it out at Dope labspodcast dot com. Special thanks
Speaker 5: to today's guest expert, doctor Alice Lichtenstein. Find more of
Speaker 5: doctor Lichtenstein's work on Twitter at j m h n RCA,
Speaker 5: and you can find Dope Labs on Twitter and Instagram
Speaker 5: at dope Labs podcast. TT is on Twitter at Doctor Underscore,
Speaker 5: T Show and you can find Zakiya at z Said
Speaker 5: So Dope Labs is a Spotify original production from Mega
Speaker 5: Ome Media Group. Producers are Jenny Rattle at Mast and
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Speaker 5: by Rob Smerziak, Mixing by Hannas Brown. Original music composed
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