1
00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,200
Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody. I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to

2
00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:09,480
Speaker 1: politics and iHeart podcast and unbothered production. Time to get spolitical.

3
00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,160
Speaker 1: So I need everybody to step to the front of

4
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,960
Speaker 1: the class because as I wrap up this season is politics.

5
00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,520
Speaker 1: I need to go back to what I said at

6
00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,960
Speaker 1: the very beginning when I started this podcast. Sports and

7
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,239
Speaker 1: politics are a thing. Now. There's so much happening in

8
00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,640
Speaker 1: the world right now that I know it often is

9
00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,080
Speaker 1: hard to keep up. But what we see in sports

10
00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,240
Speaker 1: is not different to what we're seeing in the quote

11
00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,200
Speaker 1: unquote real world. When it comes to sports. Donald Trump

12
00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,880
Speaker 1: is one of the most engaged presidents that we've ever seen.

13
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,400
Speaker 1: He inserted himself in to live PGA golf discussions and

14
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,520
Speaker 1: the effort to try to bring the two tours together.

15
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,040
Speaker 1: He's met with former Alabama coach Nick Saban about changing

16
00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 1: the college football landscape as it relates to NIL. He's

17
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,360
Speaker 1: pressure Major League Baseball to let Pete Rose into the

18
00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,600
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, and next Fourth of July weekend there's

19
00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,520
Speaker 1: going to be a UFC event held at the White House. Now,

20
00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,479
Speaker 1: there's a long history of sports mixing and mashing, often

21
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,360
Speaker 1: in uncomfortable ways that challenged frankly what we believe. The

22
00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,840
Speaker 1: reason I wanted to do a Sports in Politics podcast

23
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,800
Speaker 1: is not only to prove how much strength was in

24
00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,399
Speaker 1: that relationship, but also to show you how interconnected everything is.

25
00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,360
Speaker 1: Sports is actually one of the few things we still

26
00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:36,960
Speaker 1: do together. We've worshiped separately, we live separately, by and large,

27
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,320
Speaker 1: we socialize separately. But look at what happens during a

28
00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,480
Speaker 1: sporting event, say something like the Olympics. We are united

29
00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,480
Speaker 1: and rooting for America, regardless of social or economic background.

30
00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,640
Speaker 1: That's the power of sports. There are political issues. We

31
00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,760
Speaker 1: probably would ignore it if our favorite athlete didn't give

32
00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 1: voice to them. There are political issues we wouldn't challenge

33
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,680
Speaker 1: ourselves to understand if it didn't impact a sport or

34
00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,880
Speaker 1: an athlete that we love. Sports inherently is about togetherness,

35
00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,160
Speaker 1: but it's also an opportunity to understand something that is

36
00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,280
Speaker 1: bigger than the world we occupy. At his core, sports

37
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,320
Speaker 1: is about belief, determination, and the struggle that comes with

38
00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,560
Speaker 1: bringing out our unpolished greatness. This is what made me

39
00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,320
Speaker 1: dedicate my life to covering sports. Sure, I love the games,

40
00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,240
Speaker 1: I love the athletes, I love the arguments, I love

41
00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,840
Speaker 1: witnessing feats that seemed impossible. But more than anything, I

42
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:39,000
Speaker 1: love that sports often helps us see something in ourselves

43
00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,480
Speaker 1: we didn't know we had. This is why politics was

44
00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:47,200
Speaker 1: a true passion, because sports and politics, to me, they

45
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,920
Speaker 1: don't just mix, they actually matter. I'm Jamel Hill and

46
00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,280
Speaker 1: I approved this message. Now. My guest today is a

47
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,800
Speaker 1: former pro football player who took an interesting path into

48
00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,600
Speaker 1: political commentary journalism. But among the many things I respect

49
00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:07,120
Speaker 1: about him beyond his curiosity about how systems work, is

50
00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,840
Speaker 1: he didn't let the worst moment of his life define him.

51
00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,480
Speaker 1: He used that moment to teach and inform others. Coming

52
00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:28,880
Speaker 1: up next on his politics Dante Salwork. Dante, want to

53
00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,760
Speaker 1: thank you for joining me for this episode of Spolitics.

54
00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,880
Speaker 1: I start every episode the same way, and that is

55
00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,520
Speaker 1: with this question to the guests, and that is name

56
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,040
Speaker 1: a athlete or a moment that made you love sports.

57
00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:43,560
Speaker 2: Jerry Rice.

58
00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 3: I grew up in Sacramento, California, and my first memory

59
00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,800
Speaker 3: of watching any NFL game was the Super Bowl. I

60
00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,120
Speaker 3: think it was an eighty eight where the forty nine

61
00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,040
Speaker 3: Ers were playing the Bengals and Jerry didn't score the

62
00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,960
Speaker 3: game when a touchdown John Taylor did, but Jerry Rice

63
00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,040
Speaker 3: was just consistent and he was just he was. He

64
00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,400
Speaker 3: was brutal in that fourth quarter against the Bengals, and

65
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,880
Speaker 3: he really he and Montana really pushed him down there

66
00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,720
Speaker 3: and John Taylor finished finished the deal. But Jerry Rice

67
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 3: was always my absolute favorite player. But I had a

68
00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,000
Speaker 3: few others, but that specific player, that specific moment, Jerry

69
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,840
Speaker 3: Rice in the Super Bowl against the Bengals, that was

70
00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:18,599
Speaker 3: that was big for me.

71
00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:21,719
Speaker 1: Well as a forty nine er fan, I'm not mad,

72
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,440
Speaker 1: so I do. I do appreciate that. Well, given that

73
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,080
Speaker 1: you know that memory stands out for you somebody who

74
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,479
Speaker 1: is I don't think just one of the greatest wide receiver,

75
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,080
Speaker 1: but one of the greatest football players period. Was wide

76
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,320
Speaker 1: receiver always the position you wanted to play.

77
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,719
Speaker 3: Jamil I grew up playing both cornerback and wide receiver,

78
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:47,080
Speaker 3: and I remember specifically the moment when I knew that

79
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 3: I was going to be a wide receiver.

80
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,000
Speaker 2: Was I love the NFL? I was.

81
00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:52,520
Speaker 3: I was that kid that could tell you the roster

82
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,720
Speaker 3: of every team, every coach, every offense that was running

83
00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:56,600
Speaker 3: the statistics all that.

84
00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,520
Speaker 2: I was that kid growing up. The cornerback was my thing. Position.

85
00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,400
Speaker 2: Charles Woodson Deon Sanders. Those guys.

86
00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:06,240
Speaker 3: I thought I was Charles Woodson in high school when

87
00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,120
Speaker 3: he was at Michigan. Right, so another one of his squads.

88
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,960
Speaker 3: So you know, well, actually I'm sorry.

89
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:16,919
Speaker 1: I was about to get.

90
00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 2: Right right I thought about that. The brain was like, wait, no,

91
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:21,919
Speaker 2: that's wrong, that's wrong.

92
00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,640
Speaker 3: Uh, but uh yeah, Woodson is my guy. And so

93
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,719
Speaker 3: corner was my favorite position, and I always told myself, yes,

94
00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,800
Speaker 3: I want the ball in my hands, but one I

95
00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,120
Speaker 3: can either do coverturn or kick return. But also determined

96
00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,880
Speaker 3: determining how good I was as a as a defender,

97
00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,000
Speaker 3: I can make my own place and you know, get

98
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,760
Speaker 3: interceptions and things like that. So but the moment that

99
00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,440
Speaker 3: I realized that I needed to be a wide receiver

100
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,000
Speaker 3: was watching Randy Moss and thinking back to all the

101
00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:50,960
Speaker 3: things that Jerry Rice was doing when when I was

102
00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,560
Speaker 3: a kid, and even when I got to college, watching

103
00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,680
Speaker 3: Jerry Rice and thinking about, I don't want to cover

104
00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:59,640
Speaker 3: those guys. I want to I want to run with

105
00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,120
Speaker 3: those guys like I don't want to have to cover

106
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,560
Speaker 3: those dudes. So I always knew I was fast, and

107
00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,920
Speaker 3: I always knew that speed was going to be something

108
00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,160
Speaker 3: that I had in my toolbox, and so what better

109
00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,599
Speaker 3: position to play with speed and wide receiver? And I

110
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,560
Speaker 3: love wide receiver, but corner was always and even still

111
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:18,960
Speaker 3: today is one of my.

112
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,040
Speaker 2: Is my number one, that's my heart. Cornerback.

113
00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,440
Speaker 1: Now that is surprising to hear because I consider corner.

114
00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:28,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can say it's the toughest

115
00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:33,960
Speaker 1: position in football, but it's certainly the most humbling because

116
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,440
Speaker 1: so when you, as you said, you don't you didn't

117
00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,440
Speaker 1: want to cover Randy Moss and Jerry Rice wanted to

118
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,600
Speaker 1: be them because at some point even the best corners

119
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,599
Speaker 1: they're going to make probably look a little bit foolish.

120
00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:53,240
Speaker 1: Now you're wearing the Tennessee orange very proudly. Now. So

121
00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,599
Speaker 1: much has changed about college football since you played, mostly

122
00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,479
Speaker 1: having n I L having college athletes now being able

123
00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,880
Speaker 1: to make money recently settle this lawsuit where the college

124
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 1: teams are essentially going to be able to pay players

125
00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,720
Speaker 1: directly from what you've seen as somebody who's remained close

126
00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,400
Speaker 1: to the program that you've gone through, where do you

127
00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,040
Speaker 1: stand in terms of there are a lot of people

128
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,440
Speaker 1: who still feel like NIL is destroying college sports and

129
00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,160
Speaker 1: destroying college football in particular, Like where do you stand

130
00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,800
Speaker 1: about how the how the NIL era has sort of

131
00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,720
Speaker 1: complicated things for the way college football is run.

132
00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jamille, I kind of look at it from a

133
00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,440
Speaker 3: different perspective. I look at it from the perspective of

134
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,560
Speaker 3: the system of exploitation was destroying college football, and so

135
00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,720
Speaker 3: in society, in any situation you see where there's a

136
00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:52,400
Speaker 3: big pendulum swing to one side, that pendulum usually in

137
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,160
Speaker 3: some cases can swing back further the other way, right,

138
00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,000
Speaker 3: And by that, I mean the NCAA had us on

139
00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 3: a strict schedule. As far as I remember, it was

140
00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,240
Speaker 3: during the summer jamall. We didn't even have three meals

141
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,920
Speaker 3: a day. We weren't allowed three meals a day during

142
00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,120
Speaker 3: the summertime. We were given a we were given like

143
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,360
Speaker 3: a stipend basically for the day, but that was supposed

144
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,920
Speaker 3: to cover I believe it was supposed to cover two

145
00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 3: of the three meals. And it was like eighteen dollars

146
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,960
Speaker 3: twenty dollars. Now, granted, this is back in the ice age,

147
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,000
Speaker 3: you know, in the late nineties and the early two thousands,

148
00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,240
Speaker 3: but still like you know, these are these are kids

149
00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,720
Speaker 3: that you are making hundreds of millions of dollars off

150
00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,800
Speaker 3: of and you're expecting them to perform at an optimum level,

151
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,319
Speaker 3: and you and you're going to give them the minimum

152
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,960
Speaker 3: amount of money to be able to survive and to thrive, really,

153
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,280
Speaker 3: because that's what we do best as professional or as

154
00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,680
Speaker 3: collegiate athletes, as big time athletes. You need your fuel,

155
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,720
Speaker 3: you need your rest, your workouts, all those things. Right,

156
00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,360
Speaker 3: So the pendulum has swung back so far to where

157
00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,200
Speaker 3: the NIL was just kind of like a wild West,

158
00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,760
Speaker 3: wild wild West free fraull. I'm honestly not mad at

159
00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,240
Speaker 3: that because I'm like, you guys should have figured it

160
00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,680
Speaker 3: out before it got to this point. So now you

161
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:08,320
Speaker 3: need to figure it out and not in a way

162
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,240
Speaker 3: that's going to hurt the players, which I'm not expecting

163
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,480
Speaker 3: them to do that. I'm not expecting them to side

164
00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,840
Speaker 3: with the players, But I'm looking at it from the

165
00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,960
Speaker 3: perspective of I'm okay with the with the NAO right now,

166
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,560
Speaker 3: even though you know, I wish they would have had any

167
00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,640
Speaker 3: when I was playing. But I'm definitely not mad at

168
00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,120
Speaker 3: the at the kids today, at the young athletes today,

169
00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,520
Speaker 3: I'm happy for them, and I'm glad that, you know,

170
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,760
Speaker 3: I was a part of the system that kind of

171
00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,000
Speaker 3: helped turn the tide on that right, and I think

172
00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:37,360
Speaker 3: nothing veer too much off.

173
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,120
Speaker 2: But I think the ad Obandon case really.

174
00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:45,400
Speaker 3: Brought the light for college players what the what the

175
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,079
Speaker 3: capacity was for earning potential for for.

176
00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:50,760
Speaker 2: College athletes in college.

177
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,920
Speaker 3: When he did that lawsuit against the ncua A, I

178
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,080
Speaker 3: think it was I think it was against EA sports

179
00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,600
Speaker 3: or having having you know, their name, image and likeness

180
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,520
Speaker 3: on these games but not getting paid for it. So

181
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,960
Speaker 3: today these college athletes I think are well more well

182
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:08,840
Speaker 3: in tuned to the.

183
00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:10,000
Speaker 2: Financials of what's happening.

184
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,120
Speaker 3: Obviously there's more information with the explosion of the Internet

185
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,599
Speaker 3: and the every day twenty four to seven information that

186
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:21,320
Speaker 3: were able to receive. But to me, I am just

187
00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:26,680
Speaker 3: a little very concerned about Congress now wanting to jump

188
00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,240
Speaker 3: in and do something now about now that these players

189
00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,200
Speaker 3: were able to make money off of their name, image

190
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 3: and likeness when we weren't getting three meals a day.

191
00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,280
Speaker 3: They didn't give it damn about us then, but now

192
00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,080
Speaker 3: they care about us now that the money's there. So

193
00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,840
Speaker 3: that really bothers me. But you know, like we discussed earlier,

194
00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,720
Speaker 3: you know, you said that you hope players understand how

195
00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:55,080
Speaker 3: much money is being lobbied, you know, towards them basically

196
00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,920
Speaker 3: kind of shutting them down into making making them as

197
00:10:58,960 --> 00:10:59,920
Speaker 3: much money as possible.

198
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, the NCAA the first quarter this year, they spent

199
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,720
Speaker 1: almost a half a million dollars to lobby congressional to

200
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,920
Speaker 1: lobby congress. Basically they want an anti trust exemption which

201
00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,080
Speaker 1: would prevent players from really from them really being paid

202
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 1: their market value. Because even right now with this house

203
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,480
Speaker 1: settlement with each team that I've seen getting about I

204
00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,960
Speaker 1: think twenty two to twenty three million dollars, that still

205
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,880
Speaker 1: doesn't address market value. And I hope the players are

206
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,640
Speaker 1: understanding like what's happening sort of above them. And you

207
00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,560
Speaker 1: said something that was interesting in your answer. You said,

208
00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,640
Speaker 1: like when you were in college that you were not aware.

209
00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,320
Speaker 1: It seems like you weren't really aware of the entire

210
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,640
Speaker 1: financial structure, maybe of the NCUBA or the money that's

211
00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,560
Speaker 1: coming in or what you're generating. You know, I mean

212
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,199
Speaker 1: maybe you weren't, But like, was that ever a conversation

213
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,480
Speaker 1: that you can remember there? Because I remember Chris Webber

214
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,280
Speaker 1: he had said that it struck him, you know, that

215
00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,160
Speaker 1: his jersey was selling in the bookstore for Liken or

216
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,439
Speaker 1: Bucks but he was having a hard time scraping together,

217
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:09,320
Speaker 1: you know, money to eat. Like the unfairness of that. Ever,

218
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,680
Speaker 1: did you ever notice that when you were playing at Tennessee.

219
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,680
Speaker 3: I just visualized that just position from Chris Weber that

220
00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,480
Speaker 3: that is that that's got to be some black mirror

221
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,800
Speaker 3: level type of psychological like right there, that's that's crazy,

222
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,079
Speaker 3: you know, Jamelle, It wasn't. It wasn't a conversation that

223
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,840
Speaker 3: we were having regularly, But I do remember conversations like

224
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,520
Speaker 3: Coach Fumer and and I love him to death, he's

225
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:36,480
Speaker 3: my favorite coach.

226
00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,800
Speaker 2: But we would see him pull up in a new.

227
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,079
Speaker 3: Lectus and we're like, hey, we used to mesx with him,

228
00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:43,760
Speaker 3: like hey, coach, let's get some of that money, you

229
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,280
Speaker 3: know what I mean. And we understood that, like we

230
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,040
Speaker 3: were a major part of the reason why he got

231
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,720
Speaker 3: the contracts why the University of Tennessee had an India's

232
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,000
Speaker 3: contract at the time, right before we moved to Nike.

233
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,400
Speaker 3: And so those conversations were had, but kind of more

234
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,679
Speaker 3: and jest I do remember Jamal Lewis and I'll never

235
00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,600
Speaker 3: forget this practicing and he was just you know, he

236
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:08,360
Speaker 3: was a specimen.

237
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,200
Speaker 2: He was as a true freshman. I wasn't there.

238
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:11,920
Speaker 3: I was in the year behind him, but as a

239
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,839
Speaker 3: true freshman, he was just a specimen peyton man is

240
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:16,760
Speaker 3: last year, I think he ran for like thirteen hundred

241
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:17,880
Speaker 3: yards as a true freshman.

242
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,760
Speaker 2: You weren't doing that back in those days. But I

243
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,880
Speaker 2: remember seeing him his.

244
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,640
Speaker 3: Last year, his junior year, which was I think my

245
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,920
Speaker 3: red shirt sophomore year or red shirt freshman year, and

246
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,440
Speaker 3: he would be practicing. He'd have his sweatpants on, he'd

247
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,720
Speaker 3: be practicing with his with his pockets turned inside out.

248
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,320
Speaker 3: And I always thought like, Okay, oh, it looks cool

249
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,680
Speaker 3: like Jamal dressed up sweet when he practiced. You know,

250
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 3: he was quick, fast, you know, superstar, all this stuff.

251
00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,200
Speaker 3: And I walked up to him one day practicing. I said,

252
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,360
Speaker 3: I said, why are you pockets always turned inside out?

253
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,280
Speaker 3: And he was like, cause I'm broke and I don't

254
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,160
Speaker 3: have anything in my pockets but lint, and I'm trying

255
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,920
Speaker 3: to get it. And I started doing that right, And

256
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,400
Speaker 3: I think the the mindset at that time was like, well,

257
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,480
Speaker 3: I'm not getting any money from them, so I've got

258
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,200
Speaker 3: to get this money on my own. I've got to

259
00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,880
Speaker 3: work hard and be able to put myself in a

260
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,840
Speaker 3: position where I can take care of my family, et cetera,

261
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,040
Speaker 3: et cetera. And so those were the conversations that were

262
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,520
Speaker 3: happening more than it wasn't necessarily about the financial structure

263
00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:19,680
Speaker 3: or any deep conversations.

264
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:20,880
Speaker 2: I would say, it was kind of more and jest.

265
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,800
Speaker 3: Like I said, we'd see coach Fumber pull up in

266
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,280
Speaker 3: a new Lexus and we'd be like, hey, you know,

267
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,280
Speaker 3: we'd go to his house and be like, damn, he's

268
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,920
Speaker 3: got a nice house. Okay, this is nice. But that

269
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,080
Speaker 3: was kind of the extent for us. But I am

270
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,800
Speaker 3: glad that today that the players are well in tuned.

271
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,080
Speaker 3: Like I said, there's so much more information, and I'm

272
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,520
Speaker 3: excited that they're in the position that they're in. But

273
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,760
Speaker 3: like you said, I'm really in the same position of

274
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,920
Speaker 3: hoping that they understand what's happening above their head here

275
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,880
Speaker 3: in Washington, DC, where I live, where you know, like

276
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,680
Speaker 3: you said, the inc double As lobbied a half a

277
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,640
Speaker 3: million dollars or close to a half million dollars. So

278
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,760
Speaker 3: h those are the things I think that they that

279
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:05,520
Speaker 3: that needs to be the next step for the college

280
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,400
Speaker 3: players is to not only understand the structure within which

281
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,920
Speaker 3: you're in, but also the structure beyond that, and that

282
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,400
Speaker 3: would be the government here in Washington, d C. And

283
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,280
Speaker 3: so once they can get to that point, they can

284
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,960
Speaker 3: fight against it. They're more aware of it. And I

285
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,080
Speaker 3: hope that happens, but I'm not sure how. I'm not

286
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:23,600
Speaker 3: sure how that's going to be honest.

287
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,320
Speaker 1: Now, I like you, I this entire this wild wild

288
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 1: West feeling in college sports is really completely the instad

289
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,880
Speaker 1: of LA's fault. They had an opportunity to They've had

290
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,720
Speaker 1: many opportunities to share the equity with college players. They

291
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 1: have chosen not to do that, and so they getting

292
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,920
Speaker 1: they ask kicked in court every single time. Because you

293
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:47,160
Speaker 1: can say that the players aren't employees, but then you

294
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,560
Speaker 1: want to restrict the movement and restrict their earnings. One

295
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:55,280
Speaker 1: of both those things can't be true. And my prediction is,

296
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,440
Speaker 1: and I'd love to hear how you might feel about this,

297
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,520
Speaker 1: this is my dition for college sports. It will not

298
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,960
Speaker 1: exist in a decade unless they collectively bargain. They're going

299
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,760
Speaker 1: to have collectively bargaining directly with I think they could

300
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,400
Speaker 1: take out college football. In college basketball because they operate

301
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:18,120
Speaker 1: on separate television contracts, negotiate directly with those players and

302
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,680
Speaker 1: come to an agreement, and then it will also help

303
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,640
Speaker 1: because then if you actually sort of if you actually

304
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,120
Speaker 1: understand or agree to the fact that their employees, much

305
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,720
Speaker 1: like how the NFLPA operates, and we'll talk about that

306
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 1: in a minute, is that then you can put in

307
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,040
Speaker 1: restrictions about transferring. Then you can put in battery caps

308
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,680
Speaker 1: and that kind of thing, because it's collectively bargained, right,

309
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:47,120
Speaker 1: a system that makes sense for everybody, as opposed to

310
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,680
Speaker 1: you spending all this money trying to stop something that

311
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,680
Speaker 1: you can't stop because any of the things that they

312
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,120
Speaker 1: try to do, they're not going to hold up in court.

313
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 1: And at least from what I've been able to glean

314
00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,920
Speaker 1: from those on Capitol Hill, there's not a whole lot

315
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,640
Speaker 1: appetite to say the n C double a from itself.

316
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,159
Speaker 3: So Jamille, I love that, and so can I let

317
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,159
Speaker 3: me I know this is I know I'm not the

318
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:09,920
Speaker 3: host that I can ask you a question, because that's

319
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,920
Speaker 3: that's a very important point. I think that's something that

320
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,920
Speaker 3: I haven't seen maybe maybe it maybe it has been discussed,

321
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,920
Speaker 3: but I haven't seen that discussed in depth, right, because

322
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:22,920
Speaker 3: because when you're when you're talking about when you're talking

323
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,080
Speaker 3: about changing systems, deep rooted systems, you can't think of

324
00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,199
Speaker 3: technocratic changes. This has to be these Sometimes these have

325
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:35,760
Speaker 3: to be full exercise like changes like that that are

326
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 3: that are so big that encapsulates more than than just

327
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:46,280
Speaker 3: the infrastructure of of or working within the industry infrastructure

328
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:47,400
Speaker 3: that has already been established.

329
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,640
Speaker 2: Right, So for the players to c b A.

330
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,880
Speaker 3: Do you do you think that or how in any

331
00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 3: ways do you think that would change the student aspect

332
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,280
Speaker 3: of it? I would that change it? I love that, Jamail.

333
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,639
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm sorry, I want to know what you think.

334
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,760
Speaker 1: Okay, So it's a couple of things that we have

335
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,160
Speaker 1: to let go. And you know this playing at Tennessee

336
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 1: is that you are on a professional schedule and having

337
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,080
Speaker 1: a professor. I'm not saying that they abandon the academic requirements.

338
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,320
Speaker 1: I think, if anything, they might be able to use

339
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,600
Speaker 1: use collective bargaining to maybe strengthen those in some areas.

340
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,720
Speaker 1: But I think you have to sort of give up

341
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,600
Speaker 1: the whole concept of student athlete, which there's a very

342
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:37,680
Speaker 1: interesting history behind that. I'm currently reading this book by

343
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,320
Speaker 1: a man named Walter Buyers, who was once he led

344
00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,240
Speaker 1: the NC Double A. He's the whole reason he coined

345
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,119
Speaker 1: the term student athlete so that the NC DOUBLEA was

346
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,240
Speaker 1: going to get sued because somebody, a player, football player

347
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,680
Speaker 1: died on the field and he purposely coined the term

348
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 1: student athlete so that you wouldn't think of them as employees.

349
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 1: It was always they were selling the amateurism narrative because

350
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,480
Speaker 1: they were trying to avoid a lawsuit. And he's the

351
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,719
Speaker 1: reason why there's this humongous rule book in the NC

352
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,440
Speaker 1: Double A, or there was one. And after he left

353
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 1: the n C Double A, he then writes a book

354
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 1: just shredding basically everything that he did, which was all

355
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,880
Speaker 1: about the n C Double A avoiding liability. I encourage

356
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 1: people to if you want to read it, I encourage

357
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,600
Speaker 1: you to pick up this book. Yeah it is. It

358
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:33,879
Speaker 1: is amazing. And so you know, he was he was

359
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,480
Speaker 1: the first executive director specifically of the n C Double A.

360
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,560
Speaker 1: And he his book is called Unsportsmanlike Conduct Exploiting College Athletes.

361
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,359
Speaker 1: So after developing a rule book to exploit them, he

362
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,320
Speaker 1: there wrote about how it was all bullshit and done

363
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,400
Speaker 1: just to just the same money.

364
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,879
Speaker 2: I don't know if I respect that or I respect.

365
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 1: It like he did did it to avoid liability, Like

366
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 1: I respect it at the same time, like this was stupid,

367
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,760
Speaker 1: like we should have never tried to put a cap

368
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 1: on their earnings, like he really went into detail. So

369
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:04,920
Speaker 1: it's it's part of a larger piece that I'm working

370
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 1: on for the Atlantic. But that's a story for another day.

371
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,640
Speaker 1: But to answer your question is that I think at

372
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 1: this point the charade that this is about college is

373
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,639
Speaker 1: not going to work. If anything, I would love to

374
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 1: see them develop curriculums that are about, you know, sort

375
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,680
Speaker 1: of financial responsibility, like really things where you can essentially

376
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,719
Speaker 1: major in how to professionalize yourself as an athlete. Of

377
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,360
Speaker 1: course you can still take your core classes and all

378
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 1: those sorts of things, but I'd like to see them

379
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,639
Speaker 1: sort of stop trying to pretend that they give a

380
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 1: shit about whether or not players get their degrees or not.

381
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,920
Speaker 1: Because you also know that in college playing for these teams,

382
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,480
Speaker 1: they already steer players towards certain majors anyway that are

383
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 1: not as boxing, right, So it's like why we even

384
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 1: why we even pretending, Like it's the hypocalysies, like why

385
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,640
Speaker 1: we even forget what this is, Like we know what

386
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 1: he is. It's sports, it's.

387
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:01,640
Speaker 2: Right, so ye.

388
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 1: So at any rate, that's that's sort of my my

389
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 1: two cents on it. But since we're talking about college

390
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: sports now this is not related to the NIL but

391
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 1: since you went to Tennessee, you said, Charles Woodson, and

392
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 1: your man is your man. You know the question, do

393
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 1: you think that Peyton Manning was robbed of that heisman?

394
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,719
Speaker 3: Charles No, and I unequivalentally, unabashedly Will will say that,

395
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 3: and I've said it to Tennessee folks all the time.

396
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 3: And I love Peyton Manning. I love the family there.

397
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,159
Speaker 3: They're the best. Peyton would come back and throw with us,

398
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 3: we would. I was I was shocked really that that

399
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 3: Peyton Manning would come back after he had been in

400
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 3: the NFL his rookie year, second third year. He would

401
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,159
Speaker 3: come back every year and throw with us in the

402
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 3: summer and then and then he would he would hang

403
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,399
Speaker 3: out with us and like you know, give us food

404
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 3: and stuff and talk to us. And Peyton was awesome.

405
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 3: Peyton Manning was amazing.

406
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 2: I love him. However, hear Charles.

407
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 3: Woodson, I think that entire year he just played like

408
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,880
Speaker 3: the best player in college football. Kay Manning didn't have

409
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 3: many good games against Florida, and his senior year, you know,

410
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 3: he never beat Florida. But his senior year, you know,

411
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 3: he grew an interception. I think that was a pick six.

412
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 3: It was early in the year, but you know it

413
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 3: really it really hurt his chances I think had winning

414
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 3: the Heisman. And Woodson from start to finish, had a great,

415
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 3: great season when he ended, when he ended the year

416
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 3: with a couple of catches on offense and that punt

417
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 3: return against Ohio State when he.

418
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 2: Took that to the house and hit the Heisman. I

419
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 2: mean that was the one the one.

420
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: Hand interception he had.

421
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 2: Against against Washington State.

422
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: No, Michigan, Michigan State.

423
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, on the sidelines, Yes, with the white jersey, Jamail.

424
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, I thought I was Woodson.

425
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:49,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were there. I was. Let's see, that would

426
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: have been ninety seven, ninety seven, Yeah, No, I wasn't.

427
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 2: Okay, I came in ninety eight, so I figured. I figured.

428
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 3: I think I thought you were like a year or

429
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 3: two ahead of me. But yeah, oh man, I remember

430
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 3: that interception like it was yesterday.

431
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 1: No, I was. So I graduated in May of ninety

432
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: seven from Michigan State. So it was a few months

433
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: before Charles Woodson had to show out on us. I

434
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 1: appreciate that, you know, him making his highlight or his

435
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: Heisman moment on but that was very brutally honest of

436
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,400
Speaker 1: you to say that you thought Woodson deserved it. Now,

437
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're gonna be able to return

438
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 1: to Tennessee, but it.

439
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: No.

440
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: I want to pivot and talk about your NFL career

441
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 1: because I didn't realize this until I was doing research

442
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: for this. For talking to you, I knew you were

443
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 1: in New Orleans. I didn't realize you were in New

444
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 1: Orleans when Katrina happened. You spent your first four seasons

445
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,880
Speaker 1: of your career there. This is now the twentieth anniversary,

446
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: which is hard to believe from when Katrina hit August

447
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 1: will be officially the twentieth anniversary. From what you recall, like,

448
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: what was that time?

449
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 3: Like it was wild so normally So I was drafted

450
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 3: in two thousand and two and Katrina hit August twenty ninth,

451
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 3: I believe two thousand and five. When prior to that

452
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 3: we had to leave New Orleans two or three times

453
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 3: because of tropical storms or you know, hurricanes. We'd leave

454
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 3: to San Antonio. They would tell us to pack for

455
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 3: two days, and we would come back on the third day,

456
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 3: whatever that was, whether if it was a Friday or

457
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 3: or Thursday night after practice.

458
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 2: We would come back after practicing in San Antonio.

459
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 3: And we you know, a lot of the times, really

460
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 3: every time that we left, we could have stayed because

461
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 3: it wasn't that bad, right, And that's the kind of

462
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 3: sense that I got where people were talking about Hurricane Katrina,

463
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 3: like leading up to it. They're in New Orleans, they

464
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 3: get they get these hurricanes, these storms all the time.

465
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: But I'll never forget Jamail. The night before we had

466
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 3: Thursday night, we had played the Ravens.

467
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 2: I believe it was at home, and I fell asleep

468
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 2: with the.

469
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 3: Weather channel on that night after the game, and I

470
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 3: woke up and I think that Katrina was like a

471
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 3: cat a high CAT three or a low CAT four,

472
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 3: and it was still churning in the in the Gulf

473
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 3: of Mexico. And as you know, the hurricanes, they get stronger,

474
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 3: the winds get more powerful when they get into the

475
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 3: warm water of the gulf. So from that point I

476
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 3: figured that Hurricane Katrina would be bad.

477
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 2: I didn't.

478
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: I didn't think that the levees would break. That wasn't

479
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 3: even something that registered in my mind. But I thought

480
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 3: it would be bad just because there was going to

481
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,479
Speaker 3: be a big storm that came through a city that

482
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 3: was in the bowl. Right, So when you know, they

483
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 3: came by and told us to leave for or told

484
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: us to pack for like two or three days.

485
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 2: That we were going to leave, and I, you know,

486
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 2: I didn't have any like.

487
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 3: Like realization of what was actually going to happen. But

488
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: I didn't think it was going to be good, just

489
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 3: because the hurricane was so big. And I took off.

490
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 3: I took two of my biggest pieces of luggage. I

491
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 3: took a bunch of suits. I took a bunch of clothes.

492
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 3: And people were looking at me like what are you doing?

493
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 3: And I'm like, have y'all not seen the weather channel?

494
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 3: This thing is a five Like before we left, I

495
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 3: think it was a five jamail and we were leaving

496
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 3: to go to Oakland because we had Oakland that that

497
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 3: Thursday night, the hurricane hit I think mon like Monday morning,

498
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 3: like at two or three am.

499
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 2: And we had left. I think it was either Saturday

500
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: night or early early Sunday morning we left, So we

501
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 2: get to Oakland. We're playing the Raiders.

502
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 3: We waked up the next day and the levees had burst,

503
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 3: and so we're seeing parts of the city under underwater

504
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 3: that we were just in, you know, a few days ago.

505
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 3: And to me, that was so surreal, Jamail, I'll never

506
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 3: forget those images. And actually I was able to get

507
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 3: back to Vettori, which is where the Saint's facility is.

508
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 3: I was able to get back there with Aaron Steck

509
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 3: and Michael Lewis. We flew back from and landed in

510
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 3: Baton Rouge, one of Michael Lewis's good friends. Because Michael

511
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 3: Lewis is from New Orleans, born and raised, they called

512
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 3: him the beer Man. So Michael Lewis, he he had

513
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 3: one of his friends that worked at NASA, worked for

514
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 3: NASA to pick us up and he actually used his

515
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 3: badge to get us through several military, not police, but

516
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 3: military barricades, and so we got all the way to

517
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 3: our facility. We get to our facility, Jamail. Our cars

518
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 3: are in the parking lot, but FEMA's that's where FEMA

519
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 3: had their headquarters.

520
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 2: They were everywhere. It was like it was like it

521
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 2: was like a movie, Jamail.

522
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 3: It was like we walked into a war a war zone,

523
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 3: and they had hints up. They had all these military vehicles.

524
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 3: We'd go onto our facility and one of the wide

525
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 3: receiver room at the time was one of the first

526
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 3: rooms that you would walk into. All of our plays

527
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 3: had been erased, and FEMA's playbook was up there.

528
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: It was it was so surreal, it felt like a

529
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: movie walking through there.

530
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 3: And we talked to some of the folks there, and

531
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 3: I wish I would have taken pictures. I wish I

532
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 3: would have been able to kind of catalog more exactly

533
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 3: what happened. But for me, I was in such a shock.

534
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 3: It just no one was on the streets. I mean,

535
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 3: it just seemed like a scene straight out of a movie.

536
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 3: And then you know, you get the people that were

537
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,719
Speaker 3: displaced down there, that were evacuated out of New Orleans,

538
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 3: and a lot of them were sent to places that

539
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 3: they had no connections to. I remember hearing that some

540
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 3: got sent to Alaska. I'm like, what is our government doing?

541
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 3: But I did go down when I got back to

542
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 3: San Antonio, I did go down to the Air Force

543
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 3: base there, and I didn't know what to do, Jamail.

544
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 3: I just I knew I was an NFL player. I

545
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 3: was blessed. I had money, and I asked our media

546
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 3: guy what can I do to like, what what can

547
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 3: I do to help?

548
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: And I said, I bought it.

549
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 3: I went to Walmart and bought a bunch of things

550
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 3: that they've been asking for, you know, to give to

551
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 3: people in those situations. So I just filled my trunk

552
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 3: up with that stuff and I went to our media

553
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 3: guy said hey, what can I do? Where can I

554
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 3: take this to? Who can I give this to? And

555
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 3: he was like, oh, like you did this on your own.

556
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 3: I said, yeah, I just just tell me where to

557
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 3: go so I can drop this stuff off and talk

558
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 3: to some people. And he was like, oh, well, let's

559
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: get let's get media cameras. And I'm like, nah, I'm like,

560
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 3: I'm not doing that, man, That's not why I'm doing this.

561
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: And he, after a protests for me for a while,

562
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 3: he eventually talked me into letting I think a reporter

563
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 3: from ESPN come with me during that time. And it

564
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 3: was walking in there, Jamail, and I'm getting feels and

565
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 3: my heart is starting to beat real fast right now

566
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 3: thinking about it, Jamail, These folks had lost everything they

567
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: ever worked for in their life. They lost family members,

568
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 3: they lost photo albums. Things you can't replace ever, you

569
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 3: know what I mean, You can't replace There was no

570
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,479
Speaker 3: cloud back in two thousand and five where you can

571
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 3: upload your photos, your family photos, you know what I mean.

572
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 3: So going there and seeing those people and seeing them

573
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 3: in that position, but then they're all asking me how

574
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 3: I'm doing, and they're asking me how Aaron, How Aaron

575
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 3: Brooks is doing?

576
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: How do McAllister? How to go Horn? And Jamel? I,

577
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 2: for the life of me, I that didn't.

578
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 3: I couldn't figure that out. It took me a while.

579
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 3: And so I told them. I was like, oh, you know,

580
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 3: we're doing good. We got here, you know, and we're

581
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 3: setting up. But I was like, you know, I'm more

582
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 3: concerned how you guys are doing. And you know, I

583
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 3: was like, we'll be okay, and they're like, no, no, no, no,

584
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: we need.

585
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: You to be more than okay.

586
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 3: We need you to go win this season opener against

587
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 3: the Panthers, who were just coming off a Super Bowl loss,

588
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 3: last second super Bowl loss to the Patriots. So the

589
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 3: Panthers were a very good team and they were in

590
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 3: our division, and we were opening up in Carolina, and

591
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: that was the sentiment of jamail that I got around

592
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 3: that Air Force base when I was speaking to folks.

593
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 3: None of them said, hey, can you help me find

594
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 3: this person or that person or locate this and that.

595
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 2: They were they were all like, how are you doing?

596
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 2: We need y'all to win this game. And I and

597
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 2: that's when they hit me, Jami. I said, damn.

598
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 3: I said, these people have been through the worst thing

599
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 3: they've ever experienced in their life and they need they

600
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 3: need some kind of reprieve from the grief, from the

601
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 3: damage that has been done to them, and that is

602
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 3: in the psychological toll that they've been taking.

603
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: And we have to be that. We don't have a choice.

604
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 3: We we were not going to play man. We were

605
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 3: before all this, we were we took it. There was

606
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,239
Speaker 3: a team consensus where we were basically like, you know what,

607
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 3: f those games like, We're going to go back to

608
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 3: New Orleans and help we need to take care of

609
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 3: our families.

610
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 2: There was there was there was.

611
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 3: Almost a team rebellion that was right on the cusp

612
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 3: because obviously, you know, by the powers that be, we

613
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 3: were being suggested to continue with the season and we

614
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 3: weren't trying to hear that. So a lot of the

615
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 3: lot of the players we had met, players only meeting,

616
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 3: and and we were trying to figure out what the

617
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 3: hell we were going to do. We didn't know if

618
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 3: we were staying in San Antonio, we didn't know if

619
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 3: we were going to Houston. I mean, we were voting

620
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 3: on all this stuff. There was even New York City

621
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 3: as a suggestion. We didn't know what the hell was

622
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 3: going on, and there was no precedent, there was no

623
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 3: blueprint for this, and I think I think amongst all

624
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 3: that commotion and all that uncertainty and instability, I think

625
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 3: players were like, let's just go back to New Orleans

626
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 3: and help man and figure out what we can do

627
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 3: to help. We've got resources, we've got manpower. Let's let's

628
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 3: go back and help. And I think the majority of

629
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 3: the players wanted to do that. There were a few

630
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 3: guys that wanted to play still, but I think most

631
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 3: of the people, and I don't fault them for that.

632
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: Everybody has their own reasons, but majority of the consensus,

633
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 3: I think was we were all ready to say we're

634
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 3: not playing, We're going to go back and help. And

635
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 3: you guys got to figure this out like not us.

636
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 3: And honestly, I think the stability and the uncertainty of

637
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 3: like where we were even going to stay, had a

638
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 3: major role in all of that. We were familiar with

639
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 3: New Orleans, we lived there, we loved our fans, We

640
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 3: love our fans. It's a great place. I mean, Orleans,

641
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 3: New Orleans is awesome. So we wanted to be there

642
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 3: for the people. And I think a lot of our

643
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 3: minds changed once we went down to those centers or

644
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 3: air force bases or wherever people were being housed at

645
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 3: the current time. And Jamille, like I said before, I'm

646
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 3: telling you, I just get tears when I think about it,

647
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 3: and it reminds me how important sports are. It reminds

648
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 3: me what sports can do for people, right and and

649
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 3: every now and then. I think, maybe not recently, but

650
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 3: I think especially after I retired, I was trying to

651
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 3: remove myself so much from the from the kind of

652
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 3: moniker of me just being a football player, that I

653
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 3: kind of shrugged off the importance.

654
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 2: And then I was reminded again, you know.

655
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 3: After I think one of the anniversars of Katrina, to

656
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 3: be honest, and so that had such a devastating impact

657
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 3: on the people down there.

658
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 2: Economically, obviously.

659
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 3: More importantly people's people lost their lives and family and friends,

660
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 3: and like I said, memories that you can't replace. And

661
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 3: I think one of the things too that that I

662
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 3: learned was that the US government contracted the mercenary group

663
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 3: Blackwater to go down there, and that, you know, that

664
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 3: was a major part for me kind of understanding, like

665
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 3: you talked about with the college players, understanding what's happening

666
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 3: above your head, right, not just the images that we're

667
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 3: seeing on TV, but the things that are not being

668
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 3: talked about.

669
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, Katrina was Katrina was tough, and.

670
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 3: Neuralans will always have my heart, not just because I

671
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 3: was drafted there and the people accepted me and it's

672
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 3: a great place, but the resolve they showed after New

673
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 3: Orleans really taught me a lot.

674
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, after Katrina and Noorlean has really taught me

675
00:34:58,600 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 2: a lot.

676
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: And you know, still one of the greatest moments in

677
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: sports is when they reopened the super Dome backup and

678
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 1: they're able to play, and that moment is unbelievable and

679
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: to see how they were able to come back from

680
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 1: all of that is really outstanding. I do have some

681
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: more questions I want to ask you about that and

682
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: just about your transition from playing into what you're doing now,

683
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: because it seems like you have something figured out that

684
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: a lot of guys don't have figured out. But we

685
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: got to take a real quick break first, and we'll

686
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: be back with more with Dante star Wars.

687
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 2: Now.

688
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: D'antell. You said before the break that everywhere you went

689
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: during that terrible time of Katrina and dealing with the aftermath,

690
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,720
Speaker 1: that a lot of the New Orleans residents and people

691
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: were there were just like, hey, we just need you

692
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: guys to win. Unfortunately, that's not how that season turned out. Saints.

693
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: You all weren't very good that year. We won three games,

694
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: how much because because I came down there, I think

695
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: then because that was the year you all played.

696
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: At l s U, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

697
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,240
Speaker 3: We had three gamas in San Antonio at the Alamo

698
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 3: Bowl Dome yep. And then the rest of our home

699
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 3: games were we're in we're at LSU, except for the

700
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 3: except for our first home game was in New York.

701
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 2: Uh and George George H. W.

702
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 3: Bush came down and a couple other people came down

703
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 3: and it was you know, yeah, go ahead.

704
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: No, No, I mean it was because I covered a

705
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,959
Speaker 1: game that that you all played at in ban Rouge

706
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: at LSU, and that was I had not you know,

707
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: I remember very distinctly what pre Katrina New Orleans looked like,

708
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: and then seeing it afterwards was you felt like you

709
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: had stepped into a completely different universe. You could still

710
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: smell almost like the sewage in the city, like you

711
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: could still smell it. Yeah, and this was, you know,

712
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: months later. But nevertheless, even though people were looking for

713
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: the team to be kind of a reprieve, it was

714
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: a rough season. How much did just the volatility of

715
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: all of that, how much did that impact how you

716
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: guys played?

717
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: I think an impacted big time.

718
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 3: And one thing I can say though, was that Jim

719
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 3: Haslet was our head coach and he had I think

720
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 3: he had been on the hot seat anyway, but he

721
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 3: he did the best he could and he actually we

722
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,439
Speaker 3: were competitive, I would say most of the games that year,

723
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 3: except for a couple we just got our heads behind.

724
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 3: But we were competitive in almost every game. And now,

725
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 3: mind you, we were We had our locker room and

726
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 3: a dugout at one point, so we had the not

727
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 3: we didn't even have the minimum of what an NFL

728
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 3: team is used to having. We didn't have hot tubs

729
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 3: or cold tubs. We didn't have access to any of

730
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 3: that stuff. And you know, again you talk about resilience,

731
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 3: I saw a team come together. We didn't win many games.

732
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 3: We were competitive, we didn't lay down. We were competitive

733
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 3: in every game. And if you know, I'm not just

734
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 3: saying that right, Like, anybody can go back and watch

735
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 3: those games, and we were competitive and the majority of them.

736
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 2: And that season, the folks in San Antonio really.

737
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 3: They really looked out for us. They brought us in

738
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 3: as like one of their own. They showed up to

739
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 3: all the games that we had, their three games, they

740
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 3: sold out the stadiums like and I was at that moment,

741
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 3: I didn't want to leave New Orleans, but I was like,

742
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 3: at some point, San Antonio they need a team because

743
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 3: they showed up for us, and they loved us there,

744
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 3: and we loved being there.

745
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 2: Under the circumstances.

746
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,720
Speaker 3: But there was there was There was some tough times

747
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 3: that season, but you know, you get to see who

748
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 3: people really are in those situations, and I can honestly say,

749
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 3: you know, we fought hard and that was something that

750
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 3: that was probably proud of that. I haven't really thought

751
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 3: about it to you just asked me that even though

752
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 3: our record didn't indicate as such, but we we played hard,

753
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 3: we played our.

754
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: Off the and to your point, you know, you mentioned

755
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: how you guys opened up against the Panthers. You're in

756
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: New York. You know you all won that game.

757
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 2: Yea, yeah, yeah, it's like you won that game.

758
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: So that because I sort of I remember that, and

759
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people were thinking, like,

760
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: you know, could this as horrible as this tragedy is,

761
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: could this be one of those, you know, kind of

762
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: type of seasons.

763
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 2: And then the answer quickly became no, Yeah, it kind

764
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 2: of went south, but you got off.

765
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 1: That's all that matters. Now, down to anybody who knows

766
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: your history, know that that you went through a lot

767
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: in your NFL career. And what I found to be

768
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: interesting is after you were you didn't play in two

769
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 1: thousand and nine, you know, because of your conviction, that

770
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 1: you went around talking or that you went to the

771
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: Rookie Symposium, and that you have gone around talking to

772
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: college teams about some of the decisions you made that

773
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: led to you being convicted of the UI manslaughter when

774
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: you're in those rooms because people ask me this all

775
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: the time, like why doesn't the NFL have classes? Why

776
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: don't they have guys come back? Michael Vicker's come back

777
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: and spoke about the NFL rookie Simpot, like everybody, Ray Rice,

778
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: everybody who has been in a situation comes back and

779
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: talks to the players about, Hey, this is how you

780
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: avoid going through what I went through. So when you're

781
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 1: speaking to teams and athletes, like what is your message

782
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: to them? And knowing that a lot of them are

783
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: sitting there thinking this will never be me, like, yeah,

784
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: that's a terrible thing that happened, but it won't be me,

785
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: Like how do you break through that?

786
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 3: Initially, Jamail, I think I just have to connect with

787
00:40:55,719 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 3: them on a on a primitive level for football players.

788
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 3: And that's football, right. It's not me being some old

789
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 3: head coming in here to tell y'all, hey, don't do this,

790
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 3: don't do that. I engage with them initially, I'll, you know,

791
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 3: I'll try to lighten the mood by telling a joke

792
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 3: or or something like that, like and getting to know

793
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 3: the players before I get there and kind of name

794
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,720
Speaker 3: drop one of them in a way like a like, uh,

795
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: you know, I think Latin mccockley was.

796
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 2: Was was when he was in Georgia.

797
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 3: I was speaking there and talking about, you know, how

798
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 3: fast he was and how quick he was, and you know,

799
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 3: I just kind of joked with the players about like

800
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 3: none of them, even though I was forty three at

801
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 3: the time, none of them wanted to raise me. And

802
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 3: if they wanted to, once I finished, we can go,

803
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 3: you know, just kind of setting the stage with them

804
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 3: and get let them know like, hey man, I'm one

805
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 3: of y'all. Man, I'm not here to be this old

806
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 3: head that's telling y'all not to do this, not to

807
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 3: do that, but you know, you connect with them on

808
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 3: that level and understand and let them know like like

809
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,760
Speaker 3: I'm one of y'all, bro, I sat in that seat

810
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 3: and I'm everything that you're thinking, like, Okay, yeah, this

811
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 3: is this is this is bad as a terrible situation

812
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 3: that could have been prevented, but that'll never happen to me.

813
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 3: And we heard those conversations. We heard those conversations in

814
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 3: our really symposium. And you don't dismiss the person, but

815
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 3: you're you're just you're young, and you're in a position

816
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 3: of wealth and fame and you're living your childhood dream

817
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 3: and all these great things are happening, and you you

818
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 3: don't see the pitfalls that are that are right next

819
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 3: to you with one wrong step. And so a lot

820
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 3: of things that I talked to the players about, and

821
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 3: I've spoken at you know, I've done some work with

822
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 3: the NHL. I've spoken at numerous colleges to both the

823
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 3: men and women's programs. And I think one of the

824
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 3: constant consistent messages that I try to get them to

825
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 3: be aware of is number one, what do you want

826
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 3: your legacy to be?

827
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: Right?

828
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 3: Because no matter what I do in life, I can

829
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 3: go on and become the president of United States, not

830
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 3: that I want that, but I can go on and

831
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 3: do many great things, but that's always going to be

832
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 3: a part of my story, right. And what I try

833
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 3: to get in people's head is, these things don't happen

834
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 3: in a vacuum, right, Like these these situations don't happen

835
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 3: in a vacuum.

836
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 2: There's something little decision here, little decision there that may

837
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 2: just be right under like the superficial level to.

838
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 3: Where you're not recognizing what you're doing is adding to

839
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 3: a situation that eventually will snowball and you can't control it.

840
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 3: And so once you get them to understand, like every

841
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 3: decision you make has a consequence, negative or positive, and

842
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 3: you One thing I try to talk to them about

843
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:47,479
Speaker 3: is whatever your craft is, whether it's football, basketball, gymnastics, you.

844
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,919
Speaker 2: Have to study that like no other.

845
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 3: Right, So why aren't we studying our habits like we

846
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 3: study our playbook. Why aren't we studying ourselves and who

847
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 3: we are as people when we're doing the same thing

848
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 3: for football.

849
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 2: Let's do that.

850
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 3: Let's see what kind of decision make you are under pressure.

851
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 3: Let's see if you're going to be the one to say, hey,

852
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 3: my friend or my teammate's been drinking, he shouldn't be driving.

853
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 2: Are you going to be that guy?

854
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 3: Or you're going to be the cool, chill guy that's

855
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 3: just like he's grown, he can do what he wants,

856
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Like, are you going to

857
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 3: step in and be that person? All these different things

858
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 3: can come up in a situation where you could save yourself,

859
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 3: you could save others. And when I discuss this with them,

860
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 3: I interact with them. And one of the things Jamel

861
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:30,959
Speaker 3: that I talked to them about or that I asked

862
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 3: him is ask him, how many times do you think

863
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 3: that you drive under the influence before you're pulled over

864
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 3: the first time? And some of them will say in

865
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 3: the teams or you know, twenty thirty.

866
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 2: The number is eighty. You are if you drink regularly,

867
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 2: you are under the influence eighty times before the first

868
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 2: time that you're pulled over for a DUI. And people

869
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 2: for get d u It's not you being sloppy, it's

870
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 2: not you not being able to put your keys in

871
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 2: your car door. It's essentially two drinks that is being

872
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 2: under the influence right legally in the federal in the

873
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 2: federal sense. And so when when I'm in a position

874
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 2: to sit in there, I humanize the situation again.

875
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 3: I'm not talking to them like this, this is what happened,

876
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 3: or this is a decision I made, this is what

877
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 3: happened to me.

878
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 2: And I make it more human because it is more human.

879
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 3: I talked to him about mister Mario Ray is the

880
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 3: man that passed away, the man that when I hit,

881
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 3: he didn't make it. I talked to him about his

882
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 3: daughter not having her father, Like I tell them, like,

883
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 3: it's not just about you, bruh.

884
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 2: These are situations that reverberate.

885
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 3: To other people and have long lasting, life lasting impact

886
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 3: on other people. And no one you don't want to

887
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 3: do that intentionally, right, No one's intentionally doing it.

888
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 2: But that's what's happening.

889
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 3: And so when you're not, when you're not cogs of

890
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 3: the decisions that you're making on a day to day basis,

891
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,320
Speaker 3: you can put you can be put in the situation

892
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 3: yourself that you didn't realize how you got there to

893
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 3: you so you realize and you start looking at the

894
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 3: decisions and the little small decisions that you've been making

895
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 3: over weeks, months, years, And I think it's important for

896
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 3: people to understand that because a lot of times, you know,

897
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 3: people just kind of go with the flow, right, you

898
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 3: just go with whatever life like every now and then,

899
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 3: you know, on a New Year's people have New Year's resolutions.

900
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 3: But why don't we do that every month or every quarter?

901
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 3: Where if we I feel like, if we do those things,

902
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 3: if we self evaluate a lot more, then a lot

903
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 3: of the times we can stop some of these self

904
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 3: sabotaging content or actions that that we are taking upon ourselves.

905
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: When you had to sit out the two thousand and

906
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: nine season for violating the lead's Personal conduct policy. What

907
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: did you learn about yourself during that time?

908
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 2: You know what?

909
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 3: I learned that that I was resilient. I learned that

910
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 3: I was more emotional than I gave myself credit for.

911
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 3: Because I at that time, Jamail, I knew that I

912
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 3: couldn't move forward until I forgave myself, and I couldn't

913
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 3: forgive myself until the family had forgiven me. And I

914
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 3: didn't think that would ever happen, not because I knew

915
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 3: the family and or because of what happened, just it

916
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 3: just was like, who would forgive someone for that?

917
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 2: And uh.

918
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 3: A couple of weeks after, actually the family, through their attorneys,

919
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 3: contacted my attorney and said that they were appreciative of

920
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 3: the way I handled everything from the from the way

921
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 3: that from after you know, the immediate injury, how it happened,

922
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 3: and then you know, I was the first. There were

923
00:47:58,160 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 3: a number of nine one one calls. I was the

924
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 3: f from the call. I stayed on the scene. And

925
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 3: I don't say I don't say that to say like

926
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 3: I'm some good person. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying, though,

927
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 3: is that through all of that and knowing that a

928
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 3: number of people take off, not necessarily out of malice,

929
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 3: but because they're scared. And that's one of the things

930
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 3: that the state attorney told me. But the fact that

931
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 3: I stayed there and I called nine one one, and

932
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 3: you know, I did everything that I could to try

933
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 3: to help. At that moment, I think that I was

934
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 3: able to kind of see who I really was as

935
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 3: a person. Because everyone says what they would do in

936
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 3: certain situations, you never know until you're in it. And

937
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 3: I know it seems, you know, I'm patting myself on

938
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 3: the back, but to hear how many people actually take off,

939
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 3: and again not necessarily because of malicious purposes, but just

940
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 3: because they're scared, and your fight or flight kicks in

941
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 3: and most people flee. And but you know, I I

942
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 3: saw man, a man lying in the street, and well,

943
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 3: there was no mentioned him. There was no thought in

944
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 3: my mind to to not do anything other than to

945
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 3: reaching my back seat and grab my phones I can

946
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 3: call nine one one. And that all actually the fact

947
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 3: that the family appreciated that, the fact that they appreciated

948
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 3: that didn't blame him for running in the middle of

949
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 3: the highway, because I, in my mind, I figured that

950
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 3: if I wasn't on the road, then none of this

951
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 3: would happened. And I think, honestly, I noticed is probably weird,

952
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 3: but being accountable in football I think really helped shape

953
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 3: who I am as a person too, because, as we

954
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 3: say in football, you know, the eye and the skuy

955
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 3: don't lie. You can say what you want about the film,

956
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 3: but the film is the film, and you have to

957
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 3: be held accountable for what you put on film. And

958
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 3: that's kind of the way I kind of handled that situation,

959
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 3: was that this is something that I did, and I'm

960
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,919
Speaker 3: going to take responsibility for my actions. And I think

961
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 3: that really helped the family kind of see that, oh

962
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 3: he's he's not what the media has been portrayed as

963
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 3: some spoiled, rich athlete who's who's yet into trouble again,

964
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 3: another athlete.

965
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: They sought me as a human being.

966
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 3: I thought that was very important for me to be

967
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 3: able to forgive myself and start the healing process. And

968
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 3: the NFL was was they were instrumental and that I

969
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 3: think Roger Goodell honestly helped a lot. You had conversations

970
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 3: with him, you know, really helped because he told me,

971
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 3: he said, listen, man, he's like he's like, I know,

972
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 3: obviously the situation is horrible and it's a tragedy and

973
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 3: you made poor judgment decision that that is irrevable.

974
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 2: And to the league, to yourself, to your family.

975
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 3: He's like, but I'm not here to I'm not here

976
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 3: to take your career with I'm not here to take

977
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 3: your job away. But I am going to suspend you

978
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,439
Speaker 3: for this year because I think you need some time off,

979
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 3: you need some time to reflect, and I want you

980
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 3: to do these, you know, to go through the league's

981
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 3: therapy sessions at the time, and that helped me out

982
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 3: a lot. Something else that I realized was that I

983
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 3: guess probably me pushing back on it initially being a

984
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 3: psychology major, but it helped me out so much, and

985
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,879
Speaker 3: it took the stigma away from you know, from from

986
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 3: talking to a therapist.

987
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 2: It took that stigma away from me.

988
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 3: As football players, in particularly football players is kind of

989
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 3: kind of spartan tough sport where you're taught to suppress

990
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 3: your your suppress your your your mental any mental weakness

991
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 3: or any physical weakness, and that a lot of times

992
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 3: carries off the field as well, right and so and

993
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 3: and part of that part of mental mental toughness is

994
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 3: not saying you're not saying you're tired, not saying, uh,

995
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 3: you know, you need help or you need to speak

996
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:43,399
Speaker 3: with someone, or you have to talk with someone because

997
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 3: your head's not right. But I think today that that

998
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 3: that stigma has has gone, or not not gone totally,

999
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 3: but it's definitely changed a lot. The nomenclature that we

1000
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 3: speak about people speaking with therapists has totally changed since then.

1001
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 3: So I learned a lot during that, Jamail, and and

1002
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 3: it taught me a lot, not just about me, but

1003
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 3: about about like how to try to help others. And

1004
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 3: so I just go in there and I just tell

1005
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 3: my story and tell the situation, talk about the impact

1006
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 3: that it had not just on me and my family

1007
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 3: in the league and people around me, but mister Rayes

1008
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 3: and his family as well, his friends and family, right,

1009
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,240
Speaker 3: because that's another part of it too. And I worked

1010
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 3: with mad a lot in those days and built a

1011
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 3: good relationship with them and got to speak to people.

1012
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 2: I mean, Jamail, it was speaking for the first time.

1013
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 2: It was hard.

1014
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 3: And I always play that nine one call that I

1015
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 3: made because it's always hard for me to hear it.

1016
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 3: But I want them to feel it, you know, I

1017
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 3: want them to I want them to hear my voice.

1018
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,399
Speaker 3: I want them to hear the urgency. I want them

1019
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 3: to hear the confusion and my voice as far as

1020
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 3: like this, like did this actually happen? And I try

1021
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 3: to make it as real for them as possible, and honestly, Jamail,

1022
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 3: a lot of them come up to me and tell

1023
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 3: me stories that they said they haven't told anyone, or

1024
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 3: talk to me about things. A lot of my exchange

1025
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 3: and information with and been in touch with a lot

1026
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 3: of folks, and that's never something. I was never a

1027
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 3: person that wanted to talk a lot or wanted to

1028
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 3: get up in front of people. I was that kid

1029
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,479
Speaker 3: that literally like took a zero on the paper because

1030
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 3: I didn't want to get up and say it in

1031
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 3: front of the team. But I realized that, you know,

1032
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 3: I don't, I don't have that luxury like I can't.

1033
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:21,799
Speaker 2: I can'tnot speak out right.

1034
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 3: I cannot take these opportunities to speak to young folks,

1035
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 3: to speak to anyone who needs to hear this story

1036
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 3: and who needs to hear you know, my my situation

1037
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 3: and how everything happened and what I've been doing since.

1038
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:36,720
Speaker 3: Because I think it's important for people to hear.

1039
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: You came back, you played for three more seasons. Did

1040
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 1: football feel the same to you?

1041
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 2: That's a good question. No, it didn't. It was.

1042
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 3: It was always my first love. It was it was

1043
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,359
Speaker 3: so it was, it was, it was. It was the

1044
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 3: only thing in my life growing up. I didn't care

1045
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 3: about girls, I didn't care about going outside with friends.

1046
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,879
Speaker 2: I was in the house watching football, playing football. I was.

1047
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 2: I was all football, tmail And no it changed. You know,

1048
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 2: It's funny.

1049
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 3: No one's ever asked me that after all these years,

1050
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 3: and I've never even thought about that. That's why I

1051
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 3: was like, dam no, it wasn't. And I think there

1052
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 3: were a number of factors.

1053
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 2: I think. I don't think it was just that, but

1054
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 2: the fact that I was.

1055
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 3: Out for a year and watching that that suck because

1056
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 3: that was the first year that I hadn't played football

1057
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 3: since I was nine, you know what I mean, So

1058
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 3: that part of it was hard. But I think also too,

1059
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 3: you know, like still trying to find myself or like

1060
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 3: like like figure out what was going on or what

1061
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 3: was happening with me. But also too, there were a

1062
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 3: number of things happening around that same time where I

1063
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 3: started to become more politically aware, and it was right

1064
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 3: around time when Obama got elected, So I started paying

1065
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:02,359
Speaker 3: more and more, more and more attention to politics. And

1066
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 3: so I think a culmination of several factors played a

1067
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 3: role in that. And I still love the game, I

1068
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 3: still love the practice, I still love to work out,

1069
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 3: but it wasn't the same.

1070
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 2: Did you know? No one's ever asked me that. I've

1071
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 2: never thought about that before.

1072
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: Damn, Well, when you retire, you're still young. I mean,

1073
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 1: you're what mid thirties at that point, thirty four and

1074
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: that might be quote old in football years. You talk,

1075
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: you know, whenever I've talked to a lot of professional

1076
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: athletes about how did they know when it was time

1077
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: to go? Like, typically they didn't. So I'm worrying right

1078
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: with you, Like was that your experience as well? Like,

1079
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: how did you know when it was that it was

1080
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 1: time to retire?

1081
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 2: I'll be concise. It's a pretty interesting story.

1082
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 3: It's interesting to me. I came back and played three

1083
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:58,879
Speaker 3: years and after that, and twenty twelve was the first

1084
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 3: year that I was well, actually I got I got

1085
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 3: cut in the middle of twenty twenty or twenty eleven,

1086
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 3: and then Leonard Hankerson broke his foot, and so they

1087
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 3: brought me right back the following week and then I

1088
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:15,399
Speaker 3: finished the season there. But twenty twelve was the first

1089
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 3: time I got cut in the preseason, so I wasn't

1090
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 3: on and opening day roster for the first time in

1091
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 3: my career. In twenty twelve when I was released by

1092
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 3: the New England Patriots, and I continued to work out

1093
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 3: that entire season. I worked out for for a few teams.

1094
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 3: I think it was I think I went to Buffalo.

1095
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 3: I think I went to Miami and a couple other teams,

1096
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 3: but I didn't sign with anyone until Julian Edelman broke

1097
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 3: his foot actually in Miami, and I was at that

1098
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 3: game and so and I just go I just going

1099
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 3: up to New England, like two three weeks prior to that,

1100
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,359
Speaker 3: and they worked me out and I go down there,

1101
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 3: and I didn't see Julian back in the game, so

1102
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 3: I was hoping he was okay. I wasn't even thinking

1103
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 3: about like him being hurting him needing to sign me,

1104
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 3: right and I get down, I get down to the

1105
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,240
Speaker 3: locker room and Brady walked up to me. He's like, hey, dude,

1106
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 3: He's like Jewels broke his foot man. So he was

1107
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 3: like be ready. He's like, because they're going to call

1108
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 3: you either today or tomorrow. And I'm like, oh okay,

1109
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 3: I'm like, damn, all right, I've been working out in

1110
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 3: training So while I was fine, but I come back

1111
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 3: that next week. We played the Texans on Monday night.

1112
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 3: I think that was like they deemed it the Letterman

1113
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 3: game or whatever when when the Texans walked off the

1114
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 3: off the bus or they playing with their Letterman jackets

1115
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 3: and got spanked. I called one pass Jamail that game

1116
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 3: for seventy sixty nine yards something like that, seventy four

1117
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 3: yards whatever it was, and that was a seventy four

1118
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 3: yard touchdown. That was the last catch of my career.

1119
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 3: That was the last play of my career. Even though

1120
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 3: I was in training camp the following season with Washington.

1121
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 3: That was the final play of my career, which is

1122
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 3: probably one of the highlights of my career. But to

1123
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 3: answer your question, so all these things are happening, right

1124
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 3: and I know now, like all right, you're at the end, dude,

1125
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 3: like you're not going to play twenty years like Jerry

1126
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 3: Rice did. You're getting cut in training camp and that's

1127
00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 3: usually you know, I still had faith in my talents.

1128
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 2: But and that was like kind of kind of.

1129
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 3: The beginnings of the end, right, And so twenty thirteen

1130
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 3: I get in a hot air balloon accident in Miami

1131
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 3: and that set me back from jamail. That that was

1132
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 3: in March that I think that Friday, I think it

1133
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 3: happened on a Saturday. That Thursday or Friday was my

1134
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 3: first time I was coming off that so I sprained my.

1135
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 2: Ankle that game.

1136
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 3: I had the highest high ankle spraying that game. That

1137
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 3: ended my season. And then so I went on IR

1138
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 3: and all that, so I didn't play another game, and

1139
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 3: then I was training all off season and that week

1140
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 3: was the first time I had run like on grass

1141
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 3: that first time. And then that hot air balloon accident happened.

1142
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 3: So then I get set back another two three months.

1143
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 3: So now this is you know, March is when we

1144
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 3: it was like when teams starts signing free agency and stuff.

1145
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 3: So teams were like, WHOA like this dude just like

1146
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 3: towards ankle last year and now he's in a hot

1147
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 3: airblon accent. He's about to be thirty this year. He's

1148
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 3: probably done.

1149
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 2: And so my agent, Drew Groveinghouse of course was like,

1150
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 2: of course.

1151
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 3: He was like he's not done, He's still working to

1152
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 3: get back, and and my friend Amy Pallsik was like,

1153
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 3: he was like, hey, you need to tell Drew to

1154
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 3: shut the buck up and tell him to stop talking

1155
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,439
Speaker 3: about football, and so I was like, Hey, Drew, chill,

1156
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 3: but uh that that So that situation, I finally.

1157
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 2: Got an invite from Washington.

1158
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 3: They invited me back during mini camp to work out,

1159
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 3: and after the first day, Shanahan was like, Oh, he's fine,

1160
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 3: We're gonna sign him. But I was never right after that,

1161
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 3: and I think the like being an electrocutor, I think

1162
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 3: it really like did something to my muscles. And I

1163
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 3: already had some raggedy hamstrings anyway, so you know, that

1164
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 3: didn't help it. And I was thirty three years old,

1165
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 3: thirty two years old, so that didn't help. And I

1166
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 3: pulled my I was having actually a good camp to

1167
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 3: mel and I pulled my pull my hamstring in camp.

1168
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 3: I got released that that next those next few weeks,

1169
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 3: I still worked out until October Jamail, and then I

1170
00:59:57,440 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 3: just woke up one day and was like, do I

1171
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 3: want to really keep waking up at seven o'clock and

1172
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 3: going to train for three hours, and I thought I

1173
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 3: was just being lazy, So I forced myself the next

1174
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 3: two days to do it because I didn't know if

1175
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 3: there was something larger happening right like retirement. I didn't

1176
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 3: know if there was something larger happening in that that

1177
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 3: I'm not really picking up on. I went to train

1178
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 3: the next two days and I was like, Nope, that's it,

1179
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 3: I'm done. And I at that same time, all these

1180
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 3: funny things started happening.

1181
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 2: Jamil.

1182
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 3: I had some friends who had been telling me for

1183
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 3: a few months to watch Newsroom. They were like, how

1184
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 3: haven't you seen Newsroom? My HBO, that's right up your alley.

1185
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 3: You would love that. And as I'm watching this, actually, actually,

1186
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 3: Jamail was one of the things that kept me from

1187
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 3: working out too, to be honest with you, I was

1188
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 3: so into the show, and I'm like, I liked I

1189
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 3: loved the news. I always left the news. I want

1190
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 3: to work in the newsroom. And then right at the

1191
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:46,439
Speaker 3: same time, I had a close friend Jeremy Skate Hill

1192
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 3: and Lynn Greenwald, who were two guys, like two investigative journalists.

1193
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:52,919
Speaker 3: Especially Jeremy Skate, who I befriended, is a good friend

1194
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 3: of mine.

1195
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 2: They were always speaking truth to power.

1196
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 3: And this was, like I said, at the time, where

1197
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 3: I was learning about all these things that were happening

1198
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 3: that our government was doing abroad after nine to eleven

1199
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 3: in the War on Terror and all this and how

1200
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 3: that affected things that were happening back home here in

1201
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 3: the States. And I'm I'm getting calls from from Jeremy

1202
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 3: and Glenn and they're starting this new media company and

1203
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 3: they were they were still in the assumption. Avenue told

1204
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 3: me when I didn't told my mom that I mentally

1205
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 3: kind of checked out and it was retiring.

1206
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 2: But I get a call.

1207
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:30,439
Speaker 3: From these guys and they're like, hey, we want work

1208
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,919
Speaker 3: starting this new media organization called the Intercept, and we

1209
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 3: want you to write for us.

1210
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 2: We know you're still playing football, but can you write

1211
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 2: for us?

1212
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 3: And I'm like, Okay, here's some signs from God, like

1213
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 3: you're old, your hamstrings are fried, and all these things

1214
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 3: you want to do, and putting these opportunities right in

1215
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 3: front of you, so like, are you listening? And so

1216
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 3: I kind of made up my mind within that moment.

1217
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 3: Jamel within a week and realized that I wanted to

1218
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 3: get into journalism. I wanted to write more. I wanted

1219
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 3: to learn more about national security, about foreign affairs. I

1220
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 3: love history, so like learning about international relations and how

1221
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 3: all these things are connected. I really started focusing on

1222
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 3: that more than I did football until I eventually mentally

1223
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 3: retired and then officially retired.

1224
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 1: And listen that hot air balloon incident, you like literally

1225
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 1: caught on fire. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is. It's just

1226
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: mind boggling. I haven't been in a hot air balloon.

1227
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine what that must have been like. But

1228
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: you made a very sharp turn into journalism and into

1229
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 1: politics and foreign affairs. You know, most guys when they retired,

1230
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 1: they're going to like real estate.

1231
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 2: And all that.

1232
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,160
Speaker 1: You picked this very needy industry to be a part of.

1233
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 1: As you started to make your way in the journalism

1234
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 1: and political commentary side, what kind of surprised you the

1235
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 1: most about how that industry operated.

1236
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 3: I think it was right away, Jamail, when when I so,

1237
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 3: I got a job offer from the from the Hubbinson Post.

1238
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 3: Shortly after that, and I was also doing I was

1239
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 3: also a commentator for Comcast New England calling the Patriots games.

1240
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 3: So you know, I'm as soon as like Arianahupington's like

1241
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 3: tweeting about it, and all these journalists, which I learned

1242
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 3: to be like, these conservative right wing journalists were criticizing, like, oh,

1243
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 3: what's what a joke? And all of this right, And

1244
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm like, what's happening right now?

1245
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 2: Like why are they mad at me? I just I

1246
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 2: have nothing to do with y'all beef.

1247
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 3: I don't even know what's going on, right, And then

1248
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 3: I start to learn, oh, there's beef between conservative and

1249
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 3: liberal media and leftist media and far right media all

1250
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 3: this stuff. Right, I'm just thinking the naive naive telling

1251
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 3: me was like, Oh, everybody's just here focused on the truth,

1252
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 3: and that's how we're going to move, Like like football, right,

1253
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 3: we're all here for the same goal and we're going

1254
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 3: to move and.

1255
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 2: You know, moving the right direction together in unison.

1256
01:03:57,880 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 3: And No, it was immediately right away I was being

1257
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 3: they started finding old tweets of mine and you know,

1258
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 3: saying all this stuff, and I'm just like, what is

1259
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 3: happening here? But luckily I had I had a ton

1260
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 3: of people coming to my back, a ton of journalists,

1261
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 3: political journalists in particular Germany Skalhill and Glennary Greenwall really

1262
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 3: came in like huge support of me when all these

1263
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 3: people started to attack me, which I didn't like. I said,

1264
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 3: I didn't realize that there was beef between media. I

1265
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 3: just thought everybody was focused on the truth and then

1266
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 3: that's how we're going to operate. But no, as you

1267
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 3: know very well, you know, dealing with folks, you know.

1268
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:36,200
Speaker 2: So it was something I think that probably shocked me

1269
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 2: more than anything, Jamail.

1270
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 3: And And again, although I've been on a ton of

1271
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 3: teams in my life and my career, I realized that

1272
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 3: the only team that I want to be on as

1273
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 3: a journalist is the side of objectivity and truth.

1274
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 2: And that's not how a lot of people operate.

1275
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 3: A lot of people operate more on what's best for

1276
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 3: them and what's financially that's for them. So that's something

1277
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 3: that I can't get down with. I mean, get your

1278
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,200
Speaker 3: money whatever, do what you want to do. But that's

1279
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 3: you know, like, I believe in what I believe and

1280
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 3: if that's going to get me paid, fine, If not,

1281
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 3: then that's fine too.

1282
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, that part. As I began to make more headway

1283
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 1: on the broadcast TV side. That's not to say that

1284
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 1: print journalists don't do some of the same. It was

1285
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 1: just more in your face on the broadcast. I will

1286
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 1: literally see people who are playing a role, right, It's

1287
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 1: like you're an actor, right, and you're like, wait a minute.

1288
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 1: You know, I can't like you. I can't do that now.

1289
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 2: You are who you are and who I am, and

1290
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 2: it just I'll.

1291
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: Just take whatever backlash comes with that. I think people

1292
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 1: would be surprised at the number of broadcasters who do that,

1293
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 1: which I could live with myself if I did that,

1294
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 1: and I know you couldn't either. You know, since you're

1295
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:58,439
Speaker 1: away from the game a little bit and been able

1296
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 1: to watch things with the sixty thousand foot view, I

1297
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 1: really want to hear your thoughts about the NFLPA, as

1298
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 1: you know, been going through a lot. They're operating now

1299
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 1: without an executive director who resigned a few weeks ago.

1300
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:15,480
Speaker 1: As of the recording of this podcast. There's all sorts

1301
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 1: of things coming out. He was spending NFLPA money at

1302
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:21,520
Speaker 1: Magic City. I mean, I wish I was making that up.

1303
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not just saying that for hyperbotly

1304
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 1: as you know, that was literally there, yeah, right, But

1305
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 1: far more dangerous not trying to minimize that is the

1306
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 1: fact that what has been revealed is that there was

1307
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 1: this agreement, this confidentiality agreement between the nfl PA and

1308
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 1: the NFL to basically conceal the fact that the owners

1309
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 1: were conspiring to restrict guarantee contracts. And this, to me

1310
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:55,120
Speaker 1: is a story that should be huge because you have

1311
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 1: a players union that's actively cooperating with the NFL against

1312
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 1: the best of the player Now you see that leadership

1313
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 1: is in shambles. How can the NFL p A, how

1314
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 1: can they regain the trust of the players.

1315
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 3: That's a good question. I think first of all, Jamill,

1316
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:20,760
Speaker 3: we've we've got to have a former player as one

1317
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 3: of the as the head, right.

1318
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 2: I think a former player has to be that.

1319
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 3: I know Don Davis Well, I played with him, he's

1320
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 3: he's been at the PA for a long time.

1321
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:35,480
Speaker 2: Dominique Foxworth, I throw his name in the hat.

1322
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 3: He was he was the NFL the players p A

1323
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 3: president for for a long time when when I was

1324
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 3: in the league and so and I played with him

1325
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 3: in Baltimore. I'd love to see him as as the

1326
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 3: head as heading the PA. But we need someone like that.

1327
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 3: We need someone that's that's that's not that doesn't have

1328
01:07:54,880 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 3: any Anyboddy Buddy relationships. With with the NFL, because that's

1329
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 3: that's working, like you said, that's working exactly against the

1330
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 3: player's best interest. Those conflicts of interest can't happen in

1331
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 3: it's in a in a business like the NFL and

1332
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 3: the players Union, right, so much has been happening, like

1333
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 3: can you imagine if that happened during uh, you know,

1334
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 3: the beginning of all the concussion lawsuits and all that,

1335
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 3: Like I mean, but like you said, it's a big

1336
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 3: story that's not being that's not being discussed that that much.

1337
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:30,240
Speaker 3: And for the for the PA two to really help

1338
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 3: build the trust back in the players and everyone former

1339
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 3: players and current players and society in general, I think

1340
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 3: there's gonna have to be just kind of exorcism of

1341
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 3: this of what what's been happening and what and what

1342
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:49,839
Speaker 3: the plan is moving forward? Right, but there's no leadership

1343
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 3: right now, and you know, the leadership has trusting leadership

1344
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 3: has crumbled. I think too many, too many players feel

1345
01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:00,679
Speaker 3: that the union has become about protecting relationships with ownership.

1346
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:04,719
Speaker 3: That has been about protecting the players and their bodies.

1347
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 3: And you, like I said, that conflict of interest is

1348
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 3: just that is that is non negotiable, that that cannot happen.

1349
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:14,679
Speaker 2: That is a huge controversy for the for the PA.

1350
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, the the director who resigned Lloyd how it came

1351
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 1: to light that he was part of an ownership group

1352
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 1: or had a relationship with an ownership group that was

1353
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 1: trying to buy into an NFL team. And if you're

1354
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 1: leading the players Association and while also trying to buy

1355
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 1: your way into the NFL, I mean, that's such an

1356
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 1: obvious conflict of interest. It's just like, how did that

1357
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:42,759
Speaker 1: even happen?

1358
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 2: Right?

1359
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 1: How did somebody like that even get in that in

1360
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: that position? But there's been this long time perception overall

1361
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 1: that the NFLPA is basically no match for the NFL.

1362
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: I mean, is that a is that a fair perception

1363
01:09:58,439 --> 01:09:59,000
Speaker 1: in your mind?

1364
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:04,320
Speaker 3: Well, the NFL obviously has a ton of money, and

1365
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:08,640
Speaker 3: they have the money to hire the lawyers to you know,

1366
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 3: look at look at different wording and paperwork and all

1367
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 3: these things that that are afforded to I paid attorneys, right,

1368
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 3: But uh, players have the manpower.

1369
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:22,519
Speaker 2: And one thing.

1370
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:24,760
Speaker 3: I'll never forget that is that was never really talked

1371
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 3: about was the mutiny that was about to happen in

1372
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:32,639
Speaker 3: twenty twenty from the players when owners were contemplating forcing

1373
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 3: players to stand for the for the national anthem, and

1374
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 3: I heard from a number of high profile players from

1375
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 3: a number of different several different teams that they were

1376
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:44,720
Speaker 3: going to refuse to play if the owners did that.

1377
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 3: And the owners backed off because you know, they were

1378
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 3: getting pressure from Trump. Trump was running his mouth every

1379
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:53,640
Speaker 3: day about it, like he didn't have anything better to do,

1380
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 3: but still ketch up and spaghetti on his shirts and golf.

1381
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 3: But you know, he They really, they really took a

1382
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 3: major understanding of Okay, these guys, these guys mean business, right.

1383
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:10,720
Speaker 2: And then when that video came out.

1384
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:13,600
Speaker 3: I don't remember exactly when this was, This might have

1385
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 3: been twenty twenty or twenty twenty one, but when the

1386
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 3: players made that video and said that the NFL needed

1387
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:24,680
Speaker 3: to do more, and this was right after the commissioner

1388
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:29,920
Speaker 3: had said something to that effect. But the players were like, no, no, no,

1389
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 3: you need to do with the poor. And they had

1390
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:34,840
Speaker 3: all those high profile players on there. And then Roger

1391
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:39,040
Speaker 3: came back out and basically said, you know, he didn't

1392
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:41,920
Speaker 3: mention Kyla Kaepernick by name, but he essentially said, the

1393
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:43,800
Speaker 3: league hasn't been listening to his players, and we want

1394
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:46,840
Speaker 3: to do more. So the players have the power.

1395
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:48,720
Speaker 2: They just have to. It's so many of us.

1396
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,760
Speaker 3: It's twelve hundred and thirteen of us current players right,

1397
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 3: not me personally, but current players are I think twelve

1398
01:11:55,040 --> 01:12:01,559
Speaker 3: hundred or something like that, and they if they understood

1399
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 3: the power that they really had. I think the collective

1400
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:06,200
Speaker 3: bargaining agreements could be good. They could stop these owners

1401
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:08,760
Speaker 3: from trying to get eighteen games because that's their number

1402
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:10,600
Speaker 3: one goal. That's been their number one goal since I

1403
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 3: was a rookie in two thousand and two. Like, force

1404
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 3: these owners to pay these these these doctor bills. Instead

1405
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:22,920
Speaker 3: of five years, how about fifteen twenty years after you're

1406
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 3: done playing?

1407
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 2: Right then.

1408
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 3: I'm just saying that as a former player. But like

1409
01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:29,760
Speaker 3: all these different things that players can push for, and

1410
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:32,599
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think that the majority of them

1411
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 3: don't understand. Hell I didn't understand when I was There's

1412
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 3: much more information now, but I didn't understand really what

1413
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 3: I was voting on or anything. But a lot of

1414
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 3: the players, even today, they don't vote during the CBA

1415
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:43,760
Speaker 3: as Jamail, So you know that.

1416
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:45,759
Speaker 2: So they've got to they've.

1417
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:47,639
Speaker 3: Got to become more in tune like you said again

1418
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 3: the same thing with the cottage players, to learn what's

1419
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 3: happening above their head, because you may not you know,

1420
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 3: you may not care about at the moment you're in

1421
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 3: the NFL and you don't have to think about healthcare,

1422
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 3: you don't think about all that. But you know, five, ten,

1423
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:01,479
Speaker 3: fifteen years down the line you've retired, those things are

1424
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 3: going to become important to you.

1425
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:03,559
Speaker 2: And it's going to be too.

1426
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:07,920
Speaker 3: Late because the education of these of the NFL players

1427
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:10,400
Speaker 3: hasn't been to a point where a majority of them

1428
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 3: need to understand that their vote is important and that

1429
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:16,680
Speaker 3: they can really push the NFL, push the league to

1430
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 3: get more of what they want, not just during their careers,

1431
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 3: but post careers as well.

1432
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:24,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned a key piece of that, the owners

1433
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 1: want that eighteenth game. Yeah, So to me, that gives

1434
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 1: the players actually a lot of leverage right to work with.

1435
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:31,720
Speaker 2: Right.

1436
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:34,840
Speaker 1: Do you think we'll ever see guaranteed contracts in the NFL,

1437
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:37,880
Speaker 1: believe like across the board like the NBA.

1438
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:40,479
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so, Jamel, and you asking me

1439
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 3: that question, I'll never forget.

1440
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 2: I had met a young PK Sue. I was living

1441
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:45,599
Speaker 2: in Miami.

1442
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 3: I think this was I don't know is twenty thirteen

1443
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:51,760
Speaker 3: or twenty fourteen, and a childhood friend of his lived

1444
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 3: in my building and solved at the restaurant at the

1445
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 3: hotel or at the residence, and he introduced me to PK.

1446
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 3: And I didn't know he was, but I had heard

1447
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 3: of him, right, like I knew he was like one

1448
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 3: of the few black players that was.

1449
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 2: And he was a badass.

1450
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:08,680
Speaker 3: And and I actually I had I had something to

1451
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:10,559
Speaker 3: do that evening. I was going to dinner or something,

1452
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:13,040
Speaker 3: but I canceled because I was I was just enamored

1453
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 3: with this kid and listening to him speaking. He was

1454
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:16,600
Speaker 3: a kid at the time, right, I think he was

1455
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:18,080
Speaker 3: only in the second year in the NFL or in

1456
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 3: the in the NHL, and I'm listening to him and

1457
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:22,400
Speaker 3: I'm like, damn, this kid's got.

1458
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:23,920
Speaker 2: His head on straight, like he understands.

1459
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:27,920
Speaker 3: And when I told him Jamail that I don't know

1460
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:29,360
Speaker 3: how we got in the subject, but I told him

1461
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:32,639
Speaker 3: that NFL contracts weren't guaranteed, his jaw hit the floor

1462
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 3: and he thought I was joking, and he was like,

1463
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:36,880
Speaker 3: what did you say, And I was like, yeah, I said,

1464
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 3: our contracts aren't guaranteed, and he was like, how is

1465
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:42,680
Speaker 3: that possible? And so we had this conversation, right, and

1466
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 3: he was like, he was like, I couldn't imagine not

1467
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 3: playing without a guaranteed contract. And I felt a certain

1468
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 3: way because he was so appalled that we weren't getting

1469
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:54,880
Speaker 3: guaranteed contracts. And I had normalized it, right, because that's

1470
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:56,800
Speaker 3: the system that I lived in and the system that

1471
01:14:56,840 --> 01:15:00,160
Speaker 3: I had forever seen. I was born in that system,

1472
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:02,200
Speaker 3: and it's still that same way. But so for me,

1473
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 3: it's been normalized. And he was so offended. He was like,

1474
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:07,799
Speaker 3: I don't think I could ever play on the contract

1475
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:08,559
Speaker 3: that wasn't guaranteed.

1476
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:11,800
Speaker 2: And I'm like it's a good point. I'm like, that's

1477
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:13,639
Speaker 2: a good point. Like, but.

1478
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 3: Then, so to answer your question, if the owners want

1479
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:20,800
Speaker 3: the eighteen games, maybe the players should tell them that

1480
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:22,720
Speaker 3: we want guaranteed contracts. If you want eighteen games, we

1481
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:26,720
Speaker 3: want guaranteed contracts. That's the non negotiatbook, right, Like, there's

1482
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 3: no need to negotiate with them. We know what they want,

1483
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:30,880
Speaker 3: we know what they want, and so if you want

1484
01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 3: eighteen games, we want guaranteed contracts and some other stuff.

1485
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:35,880
Speaker 3: We want some other stuff. We don't just want the

1486
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 3: ribs and the corn bread. We want some macatins too,

1487
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:40,760
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. We need to get all

1488
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 3: of that. And I really hope players understand the power

1489
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:47,000
Speaker 3: that they have because they could do that. They could

1490
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:50,320
Speaker 3: get you know, better healthcare post career. Right now, it's

1491
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:52,360
Speaker 3: five years, five years after year out of the NFL.

1492
01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:54,680
Speaker 3: If you're invested, right, that's the only players who have

1493
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:57,840
Speaker 3: played three years plus three games. So you're in your

1494
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:01,280
Speaker 3: fourth year, after your third game you play, then you

1495
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 3: are vested finally, but only those players you get after

1496
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 3: five years, after the moment you retire, you get essentially

1497
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 3: NFL healthcare.

1498
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:10,320
Speaker 2: Right.

1499
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:12,120
Speaker 3: You don't have to pay for any of it, but

1500
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 3: after that you do. So players can get so much.

1501
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 3: I really hope they push and push and push and

1502
01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:21,520
Speaker 3: get those to get those extra recreds, get that macantes,

1503
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:23,719
Speaker 3: get that corn bread and potato salad, and get all.

1504
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:25,600
Speaker 2: Of it because they have the opportunity to do it,

1505
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:26,479
Speaker 2: and I really hope they do.

1506
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. The unfortunate part, and where obviously ownership has huge

1507
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 1: a huge amount of leverage, is because they feel like

1508
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 1: from a money standpoint, they can outlast you all. And

1509
01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 1: when you have an average NFL career. It's only like

1510
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:44,160
Speaker 1: three and a half years. You have a lot of

1511
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:46,799
Speaker 1: guys in the league who have their whole families depending

1512
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:49,360
Speaker 1: on it, and they can't afford to not make money.

1513
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:52,439
Speaker 1: So eventually at some point they're gonna have to come

1514
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 1: back to the table. And you know the owners much

1515
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 1: have they done the last two cbas like they have.

1516
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:03,720
Speaker 1: They have taken it to the mat. So, like you,

1517
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 1: I hope it happens one day because given the rate

1518
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:10,240
Speaker 1: of injury, the danger of the job it is, it

1519
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:15,120
Speaker 1: is unconscionable. Right, they do not have guaranteed contracts. All right,

1520
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:18,639
Speaker 1: Before I let you go, Dante, I end every podcast

1521
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 1: by asking my guest a messy question. This is where

1522
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 1: we make the blogs, so where we make the head Yes, right,

1523
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:30,760
Speaker 1: So you alluded to your speed in this podcast. Maybe

1524
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:33,639
Speaker 1: people don't know this, but your your forty yard dash

1525
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:37,120
Speaker 1: time at the combine tied for second fastest of all

1526
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:41,080
Speaker 1: time and combine history of course, as wor That's what

1527
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:45,920
Speaker 1: I'm talking about, all right, you and your prime running

1528
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:49,040
Speaker 1: at four too two that you ran versus Tyreek Hill

1529
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 1: and his prime who wins.

1530
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 2: See Tyreek's speed was like my speed.

1531
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 3: He could go from zero to one hundred quick, right, Like,

1532
01:17:58,360 --> 01:18:00,559
Speaker 3: that's why I ran such a forty times forty time.

1533
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:01,960
Speaker 3: Now you put me in the two hundred. It's a

1534
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:05,639
Speaker 3: little bit slower than than my forty time, but I could.

1535
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:08,720
Speaker 3: I could get out real fast to full speed. I

1536
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:13,599
Speaker 3: watched the things that Tyreek that Tyreek's done. God, I

1537
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 3: feel like I had a similar speed, but his explosion

1538
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 3: is just second to nine. I haven't seen many people.

1539
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 3: But now there's the messy part of that question. In

1540
01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 3: two thousand and seven, when I played with the Patriots,

1541
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:33,679
Speaker 3: after I scored this long touchdown against the Cowboys, we're

1542
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:37,680
Speaker 3: watching the film that Monday in the meeting room receivers,

1543
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:41,000
Speaker 3: Randy Moss walked up on me and stands over me

1544
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:44,320
Speaker 3: like like this like and he was like, you think

1545
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 3: you fast?

1546
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:46,680
Speaker 2: He was like, you ain't faster to me.

1547
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 3: And all I did was I looked up and I said,

1548
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:51,640
Speaker 3: put something on it, right, And he was like, one

1549
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:53,639
Speaker 3: hundred graand we'll race, We'll put he said, we'll both

1550
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 3: put one hundred grad in the suit cable at the

1551
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:57,400
Speaker 3: end of at the end of the finish line. And

1552
01:18:57,439 --> 01:18:58,680
Speaker 3: he was like, and I'm gonna pick my money up

1553
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:01,400
Speaker 3: and you that touch my money, and that we were

1554
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:02,800
Speaker 3: going to race. We had a buye week coming up

1555
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:05,519
Speaker 3: in a couple of weeks, and that was we I

1556
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:07,519
Speaker 3: was like, I got Randy. From zero to forty, I

1557
01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:10,360
Speaker 3: got Randy. Now you're talking about sixty eighty hundred. No,

1558
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 3: I'm not racing him, cause already know what's gonna happen.

1559
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:14,200
Speaker 3: Those long legs are going to get to turn him.

1560
01:19:14,360 --> 01:19:18,120
Speaker 3: But zero to forty I got you, Randy. And we

1561
01:19:18,240 --> 01:19:20,800
Speaker 3: never got the race because he copped out. He knows

1562
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:23,040
Speaker 3: he copped out. He came up to me and he's like, man,

1563
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:25,479
Speaker 3: he's like, it's words getting around the building and bill

1564
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:26,000
Speaker 3: check it will.

1565
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 2: Chick wouldn't be too happy if one of us got hurt.

1566
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:29,519
Speaker 3: And I was like all right, I said, all right,

1567
01:19:29,960 --> 01:19:33,280
Speaker 3: all right, Randy, okay, even though I was like, you know,

1568
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:35,400
Speaker 3: I don't feel like I dodged the bullet, but I

1569
01:19:35,439 --> 01:19:37,599
Speaker 3: was like, oh, you know, I had comping this jamail,

1570
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:41,639
Speaker 3: but you know that's one hundred grand online and that was.

1571
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:42,479
Speaker 2: Now would have been crazy.

1572
01:19:42,479 --> 01:19:45,040
Speaker 3: But yeah, as far as speed goes, I wish we

1573
01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:46,479
Speaker 3: would have been out of race. Would have been fun,

1574
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:48,200
Speaker 3: would have been something to brack about. Say, I be

1575
01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 3: Randy Mawson the race, but you know, I was blessed

1576
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:54,280
Speaker 3: player play alongside guys.

1577
01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 2: Like him and other players, and it was really a blessing.

1578
01:19:56,200 --> 01:19:58,600
Speaker 3: And I'm really, you know, blessed to be able to

1579
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:01,080
Speaker 3: be in a position I'm in now, living in Washington,

1580
01:20:01,120 --> 01:20:03,160
Speaker 3: d C. With the connections and network that I have

1581
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:05,639
Speaker 3: to be able to speak to people and meet people

1582
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:07,439
Speaker 3: that are doing really great things around the world.

1583
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 2: It's really been a blessing.

1584
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:15,759
Speaker 1: So what you didn't answer the question though you are Tyrek.

1585
01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 3: You know what, Honestly, in my day, I felt like

1586
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:21,720
Speaker 3: no one could beat me. But when I'm watching Tyreek now,

1587
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:23,960
Speaker 3: I feel like he might have beat me by a

1588
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:25,000
Speaker 3: hair by hair.

1589
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:30,240
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, now what's that speed looking like?

1590
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:32,200
Speaker 2: Now? Well, I'm a.

1591
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:34,639
Speaker 3: Marathon runner now, or at least a half marathon runner now,

1592
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:37,519
Speaker 3: so I'm a little more slow paced. I can run alonger,

1593
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:42,120
Speaker 3: faster or longer than I've been able to. But faster I.

1594
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 2: Just do sprints on treadmill for a little fun, or

1595
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:45,200
Speaker 2: like running up hills.

1596
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 3: But the speed, yeah, even I try to think about

1597
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:50,799
Speaker 3: running the forty might pull a handstring.

1598
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:52,920
Speaker 2: So I'm good.

1599
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:55,599
Speaker 3: You see those videos people racing, their racing their kids

1600
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:57,080
Speaker 3: in the streets, so their niece's nephews.

1601
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:02,360
Speaker 2: It won't be me. It won't be me, I.

1602
01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:04,600
Speaker 1: Heard that, But will at least you, you know, you

1603
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:07,879
Speaker 1: learn how to wrong learn how to run long distances.

1604
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:09,760
Speaker 2: At least you're there.

1605
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:13,160
Speaker 1: Well, Dante, thank you so much for joining me, and

1606
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 1: for those out there who are watching or listening, they

1607
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:17,280
Speaker 1: can catch you on seeing it in your own all

1608
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:22,640
Speaker 1: the time we've been on together recently, and certainly with

1609
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:28,080
Speaker 1: this NonStop collision between sports and politics, that means we

1610
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:30,800
Speaker 1: will see you even more than we already do, given

1611
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:34,080
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump has decided that he's an unofficial sports

1612
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:37,599
Speaker 1: czar of America, between trying to get Washington and Cleveland

1613
01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:41,120
Speaker 1: to go back to their nicknames and the executive order

1614
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:45,960
Speaker 1: for NIL, and with these big international events coming up

1615
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:47,960
Speaker 1: in America, from the World Cup to the Olympics, it'll

1616
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:50,640
Speaker 1: be very interesting to see how the rest of the

1617
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:54,680
Speaker 1: world responds to being in America under this type of leadership.

1618
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:58,799
Speaker 1: So look forward to your commentary and you adding your perspective.

1619
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:01,400
Speaker 1: So thanks for being so opening, candidate, and for joining

1620
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:02,160
Speaker 1: me here on politics.

1621
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:04,360
Speaker 3: Thanks Jameel, and I will say before we get off.

1622
01:22:04,360 --> 01:22:06,439
Speaker 3: I am writing a piece for the Nation that will

1623
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:09,240
Speaker 3: publish soon. But it's not about sports, but it's about

1624
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:14,760
Speaker 3: like how ice raids were, like the old slave slave patrols,

1625
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 3: and how the Cold War policy is connecting all that right,

1626
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:20,200
Speaker 3: So look out for that piece.

1627
01:22:20,200 --> 01:22:23,400
Speaker 2: It'll be published soon, hopefully by next week sometime.

1628
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:25,800
Speaker 3: And thanks for having me on since I appreciate you,

1629
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:27,760
Speaker 3: love you as always, keep doing what you're doing.

1630
01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 1: One more segment to go coming up next, the Final Spin.

1631
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:46,720
Speaker 1: Time Now for the Final Spin. I just want to

1632
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:50,280
Speaker 1: take this time and thank you everybody for supportings politics now.

1633
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:53,559
Speaker 1: This first season, it was unbelievable in so many ways.

1634
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:57,479
Speaker 1: I interviewed some amazing guests, from John O'Brien to King

1635
01:22:57,560 --> 01:23:01,080
Speaker 1: Jeffries to Roy Wood Junior and Marion Jones to Clarissa

1636
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:04,800
Speaker 1: Shields and so many more. The conversations I had on

1637
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:08,040
Speaker 1: this podcast gave us all permission to have elevated discussions

1638
01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:12,360
Speaker 1: about the relationship between politics, sports, race, gender and culture.

1639
01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:15,760
Speaker 1: It's not easy to start and maintain a podcast like this,

1640
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:18,240
Speaker 1: so I just want you all to know that your

1641
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:22,960
Speaker 1: support is truly appreciated and critical. If we want a

1642
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:27,400
Speaker 1: media world where we're actually challenged and receive information that

1643
01:23:27,479 --> 01:23:32,200
Speaker 1: creates curiosity. This concludes another episode of Politics. If you

1644
01:23:32,280 --> 01:23:35,680
Speaker 1: have a comment or question, like or dislike I'm at

1645
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:39,200
Speaker 1: Jamail Hill across social media Twitter, Instagram, fan based, Blue

1646
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:43,559
Speaker 1: Sky and threads, please use the hashtags politics. You also

1647
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:46,120
Speaker 1: have the option of emailing me as Politics twenty twenty

1648
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 1: four at gmail dot com. You can also video me

1649
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:52,120
Speaker 1: a question, but please make sure it's thirty seconds or less.

1650
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:55,320
Speaker 1: Don't forget to follow and subscribe to Politics on iHeart

1651
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:59,240
Speaker 1: and follows, Politics pod on Instagram and TikTok. Politics is

1652
01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:02,800
Speaker 1: billed sp L I t I c s. A new

1653
01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:06,600
Speaker 1: episode of Politics drops every Thursday on iHeart Podcasts or

1654
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:10,559
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics or sports

1655
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:18,519
Speaker 1: and politics don't just mix. They matter. Politics is the

1656
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:22,360
Speaker 1: production of iHeart Podcasts and The Unbothered Network. I'm your

1657
01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:27,240
Speaker 1: host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne. Lucas Hymen

1658
01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:30,760
Speaker 1: is head of audio and executive producer. Original music for

1659
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:34,320
Speaker 1: Spolitics provided by Kyle Visz from wiz FX.