WEBVTT - Sessions Announces End to DACA Program (Audio) 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.800 Um Greg's store in Washington, with June Grasso in New York, 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:06.400 and you're listening to Bloomberg Law. I'm here today to 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:11.079 announce that the program known as DACA that was effectuated 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:16.079 under the Obama administration is being rescinded. With those words, 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:19.279 Attorney General Jeff Sessions heralded the apparent end of the 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.440 Dreamer program and its protection for eight hundred thousand people 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.439 who entered the US illegally as children. Under DACA, those 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:29.640 people were shielded from deportation and could get work permits. 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.400 The program will be phased out, so no one's status 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:35.080 will be changed for six at least six months at 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:37.959 the period that, in theory at least could let Congress 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:41.400 address the status of the Dreamers. With us to talk 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.479 about the implications of today's announcement is David Beer. He's 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:47.760 a policy analyst at the Cato Institute. And Margaret Korean, 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:52.400 he's executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies. David, 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:54.760 let's just start with the nuts and bolts of this. 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:59.320 Tell us how this phase out is going to work. Well, 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:01.840 it's gonna work on a sort of rolling basis, so 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:08.240 you're gonna have people losing their DOCTA permits um on 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.080 a ongoing basis, So it's not all going to happen 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:16.600 at once in six months. Rather, people's renewals will come up. 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.039 They get a two year permit to work and live 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:24.920 legally in the United States. That permit will expire at 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:30.759 some point, and based on the numbers from the government, UH, 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:34.080 you're pretty much gonna have some people being able to 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:38.200 stay in their DOCTA status until uh, some people will 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:44.000 lose their DOCCA status in and some people will lose 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:48.560 their DOCTA status. So it all depends on when you 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:53.120 first received your doctor permit. And just David, quickly, just 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:54.800 as I know you've looked at the numbers, are are 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:57.880 most of the people in the status where they're gonna 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:02.000 lose lose uh, their rights start in six months. So 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.440 actually you're gonna have about six of the people currently 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:09.720 in the program will continue to have status uh through 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.560 nine teams through all of next year, they will continue 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:18.440 to have status and then it will you know, quickly 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:22.399 expire after that. So President Trump has signed more than 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:26.680 forty executive orders, ranging from stopping immigrants from some Muslim 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.760 countries from entering the US to stopping transgender people from 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:35.200 serving in the military. So, David, how can the Attorney 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:39.360 General Sessions say that President Obama's executive action on DAKA 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:46.840 was unconstitutional? Well, it's certainly inconsistent in terms of the 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.200 theory of executive power. That's being employed in one area 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.840 is not being employed in in the same way in 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:57.200 another area. And Uh, you know, the the DACA program 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:01.600 has existed for sinceve so we have over five years 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.680 with that program. Other programs of a similar nature existed 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:10.639 under the H. W. Bush administration, that George W. Bush administration. 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.920 You've had these types of deferred action programs for select 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:20.840 groups of of unauthorized immigrants going back many years. And 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:25.880 it really doesn't seem any different, uh today, except that 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:31.839 the administration disagrees with the program on policy merits Mark, 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.200 let's bring you into this, um. So, Jeff Sessions kept 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:37.440 talking today about the rule of law and in his 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:41.200 view that DACCA is unconstitutional. If that's the case, does 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.240 it does it make sense to let this program go 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:48.360 on even for six months. Shouldn't administration have ended it immediately? Well, 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:52.400 the administration should have ended it in January when it 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:56.240 took over, and the President has pledged to abolish it 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.760 on day once. So the answer is yes, um, but 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.440 you also have to deal with practical reality, and what 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.800 they seem to be doing here is trying to create 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:10.160 a soft landing for the doctor. This is what the 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:14.160 sit and also create a grace period for Congress to 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:20.760 actually um put together legislation to properly legalize them. So 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.839 so the answer is yeah, ideally this never should have 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:27.640 existed in the first place. But like any other um 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:34.359 unconstitutional usurpation of legislative power by the executive, you have 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.520 to deal with the facts that have been created and 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:43.720 try to unwind the illegal act um, because that's the 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.760 predn way to deal with it, rather than simply um 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:50.360 sort of uh, you know, abolish it altogether turned into 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:54.400 a punk. I mean they could, but you know, prudence 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:58.680 demands that you have to deal with the facts that 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:02.080 you inherit, not the facts that you wish you and inherit. 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:08.400 David in just about thirty seconds. Would this have happened 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:12.000 if attorneys general in ten conservative states hadn't threatened a 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:15.920 legal challenge to the program, Uh, if it continued beyond 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:20.679 September five, giving Trump a political deadline, he was pretty 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.240 obvious that it would not have happened. And so what 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.760 you're referring to as a letter led by Texas Attorney 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:31.080 General Uh to the administration saying that we will file 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:37.240 a lawsuit challenging this deferred action program, the doctor program, 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:40.640 if you do not end it by September five. And 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.320 here we are on September five, they're announcing the end 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:47.320 of the program. The Trump administration has announced it will 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:50.000 phase out the Obama Doctor Program, which applied to a 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.320 hundred thousand young people who entered the US illegally as children. 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.120 Those so called dreamers have been able to live free 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.200 from the threat of deportation and with the right to 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.719 hold down jobs. Here's how Atorney General Jeff Sessions defended 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:05.720 the decision. We are people of compassion, and we are 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:09.800 people of law, but there's nothing compassionate about the failure 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:15.080 to enforce immigration laws. Enforcing the law saves lives for 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:21.760 tax communities and taxpayers, and prevents human suffering. Mark, I 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.360 want to ask you about those comments from Jeff Session. 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:27.200 As you know, a lot of these people came here 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.040 as very young children. Some of them can't even remember 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.360 the country they came from. When I heard him talk 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:36.240 about compassion, I heard him talking entirely about people who 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:40.000 are legally in the US, and not any of the dreamers, 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:45.680 not compassion towards them. Did you hear anything different, Well, um, yeah, 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:47.640 I mean I don't think he was talking about either 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.000 legal or at le on other words, I think from 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.160 what you was saying in that comment was that when 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:58.400 you have a clear, consistent rules that are that are 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:04.880 consistently enforced, you make sure that people abroad know what 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.800 to expect. Whereas the reason we have this situation with 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:13.560 the doccas is that we have immigration laws that, for 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:18.320 various political and financial interests, have made sure that we 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.120 don't enforce them. So we have laws on the books 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:23.480 that are then poorly enforced, and you end up with 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:27.800 a situation where, for instance, you have uh, several hundred 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:31.480 thousand people who came here as young children, um, some 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:33.400 of them teenagers, but a lot of them as young 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.360 children who grew up here. Well, the only reason that 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:41.000 was even possible is because we let the immigration law 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.600 go unenforced for so long that people ended up just 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:48.960 being able to stay. And the lesson of this whole 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:54.200 docta business is that you need to have clear, consistent 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:59.240 immigration laws that are enforced so that you don't entice 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.760 people to come here illegally, and you make sure that 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:08.600 those who do come are found and returned expeditiously, rather 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:13.360 than um allowed able to stay for years and years 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.520 and end up in the kind of situation we keep today. David, 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:21.480 this is supposed to be an orderly transition, and yet 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:25.640 you have a situation where the DACA recipients are almost 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:29.520 in a worse situation than illegal immigrants because all their 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:33.880 information has been given to the government and if if 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.240 they want to get them at some point in the future, 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:40.280 they have that information. So and it's also seems very 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.040 not it doesn't seem very orderly when it's happening on this, 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:46.160 on this every three months. You know, things may happen. 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:50.280 It just doesn't seem like it's an orderly process. Well, 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.960 it's certainly going to be chaotic for the businesses that 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:58.840 have to fire over seven twenty thousand people really on 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:01.960 a you know, four hundred people week are going to 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.040 be fired. They're gonna have to, uh, you know, expend 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.520 enormous amount of resources trying to replace those people. That 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:13.200 money comes directly out of the paychecks of other workers 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:17.400 at those businesses as well as the the payments that 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:21.960 they received from consumers. So yes, it's it's going to 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.400 be orderly from the standpoint of the government. Because the 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:26.800 government doesn't have to do hardly anything. They can just 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:30.199 rely on these businesses to have to go around and 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.800 police their workforces and fire these people. I don't think 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.600 that the Trump administration is going to immediately start targeting 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:41.160 all of these uh, doctor recipients, and that's simply because 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:43.240 of the fact that they don't have the resources to 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.880 deport everyone in the United States, and uh, you know, 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.320 there are enough people that they can catch in other 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:54.520 ways that they can really ramp up enforcement without going 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.679 after the doctor recipients immediately. Now down the line, certain 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:02.040 ones of them will asolutely be disadvantaged as a result 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.000 of this and be deported. Um, but I don't think 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:09.480 it's gonna be a blanket policy of going after them. Mark. 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.720 The administration left up in the possibility that Congress could 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.040 act in the six month period to address the status 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:18.120 of the doctor recipients. Do you see any realistic chance 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.720 that that this Congress could actually put together something that 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:25.360 would address this issue from a legislative standpoint, Yeah, I 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:27.560 think so. I mean, they didn't just leave the possibility open. 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.120 That's what that six months. The great period is for 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:32.760 is for Congress to get on the stick. If they 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.400 had done this in January when the President said he 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.440 was going to do it and given them say to 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:39.800 the end of this year, they would have a longer period. 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.959 But yeah, I think it's clearly enough time because they 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:47.559 don't need to put together some vast thousand page bill 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:51.640 like the Gang of Eight fiasco from several years ago. 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.600 They need legislation that does one thing, and that is 0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:00.800 legalize the doctas who were already a finite population. They 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:04.679 know who they are, and as part of that, mitigate 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:08.240 damage that any amnesty like that would do. So they 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:13.600 would have to include and enforcement measures, specifically mandating the 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.960 de Verify system, which is an online system businesses can 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.200 use to make sure that people they hire are telling 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.560 the truth about who they are. And they'd have to 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:27.760 get rid of some of the legal immigration categories to 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:33.280 prevent the relatives of these amnesty recipients, who knew what 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.400 they were doing when they came they were adults them 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.120 from being able to benefit. I want to give David 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.520 fifteen seconds to say whether he agrees whether Congress can 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:45.160 actually act in this time. Congress can certainly act within 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.320 this period of time. Uh, it seems unlikely if they're 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:50.679 going to try to take up the sort of bargain 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.600 that Mark has put forward. Okay, I want to thank 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.160 our guests, Mark Retkorean David Beer talking about the Trump 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.959 administration's decision to phase out the DACA program. Uh, thanks 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:02.880 for being with us on bloomberg Loft.