WEBVTT - SYSK’s Fall True Crime Playlist: Who Committed the 1912 Villisca Ax Murders? 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.120 Moving on with our next episode in the playlist, This 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:08.160 one's on a horrific and truly saddening multiple acts murder 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.680 in Iowa in nineteen twelve. To some, it looks like 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.240 a random act of violence committed by someone who is 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.520 a stranger to the victims, but some odd clues also 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:20.120 point to it as the work of possibly someone who 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.520 knew all of the people who died, which included children. 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.920 This one is harrowing, interesting, and bizarre. 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:41.400 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from HowStuffWorks dot com. 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.840 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:48.360 Charles w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry put The three of 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.400 us together, had a little mystery, a lot of mayhem. 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:54.840 You got stuff you should know and one axe? 0:00:55.280 --> 0:01:00.120 Yeah acts, how many is this? Three? 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:05.200 We got Lizzy Borden yep, effect yep, and then this one. 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:06.399 I couldn't think of anymore. 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:08.320 Well, I looked It's funny because I looked at I 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:09.480 was like, I wonder if we could do a spin 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:15.920 off show just on X murderers. And Wikipedia had thirty listed. 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:19.560 I'm surprised that if there's like ten mentioned in this 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.800 this article alone, Well we'll see why there are so 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:28.840 many X murders. This, this, this whole researching the Veliska 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:32.920 ax murder kind of solved a question I've had that 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.440 I didn't realize I knew had. 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:36.600 How to pronounce Boliska. 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:40.000 We just settled that by calling the Velliska town Hall. 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:42.160 I know, that was a pretty great moment. Right before 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:44.600 we recorded, I was like, are you sure there's a Mellissa? 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:48.400 Josh called the town hall and lied. 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.480 Well, it was kind of a bet that she settled. Yeah, said, 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:54.840 we just never put money on it. 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:57.400 So if you are whoever answers the phone at the 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:02.559 Veliska town Hall, all, thank you. You got a call today, 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:07.320 so congratulations. And second of all, you just spoke to 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:08.560 an internet celebrity. 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.760 I don't know, man, I think Velliska is on the 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.480 map and it is one hundred percent because of this 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:16.560 this murder. 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:20.600 Well, if you just type in Veliska, almost all you 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:22.640 see is stuff about the axe murder. 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:28.280 Well, yeah, the site Veliska, Iowa dot com is entirely dedicated. 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:28.639 To this axe murder. 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:30.520 It's a it's a pretty big deal. 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.639 Yeah, no, it's just it doesn't mention it at all. 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.200 But all the copy is just in the outline of 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:39.600 the shape of an axe. They just talk about like 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.200 their boys club and stuff that they're doing. They're fourth 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.320 of July praid, but it's in the shape of an ax. 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.800 Yeah. The population and elevation is in a drop of 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:49.800 blood coming off of the axe. 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.480 Yeah, it's as population, not as much as it was 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:54.120 on June ninth. 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:55.200 That's morbid. 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:56.240 Nineteen twelve. 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:58.560 Did you did you hear about this before? 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:01.040 Well, I think after a hint your chaifect, we had 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:11.560 some emails from probably local iowaans iowaans iowans Iowania Knights saying, hey, 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.640 you guys should if you're into the not into. 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.600 X murders, but get a load of this. 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:20.400 If you're into reporting on grizzly crimes, you should check 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:22.720 out the one we had in nineteen twelve. Yeah, they 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.679 were right, man. This is so before we get into it, 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:27.880 I think it goes without saying listeners that this is 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.640 a very horrific grizzly crime that we're going to talk 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:34.880 about in some detail. Right, listen at your own discretion. 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.360 X murder is in the title, everybody. 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:40.360 Yeah, just want to make sure we cover ourselves there. 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:44.680 This is one of the most brutal crimes in American history. Yeah, 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:46.320 and a lot of people don't know about it. 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:46.720 Man. 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:51.840 Well let's let's let's stop jabbering and get this criming. 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.600 Okay, all right, where was where was this from? 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:59.200 By the way, Well, one of the articles we researched 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.760 was from Mike Dash of the Smithsonian magazine. 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:05.200 They do great work, great work. 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.600 There's another guy named and named Ed Epperley who we 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:11.640 have to give a shout out to, who has like 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.960 a whole site called ask ed that's dedicated to this murder. 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.200 Guys researched it for like fifty five years or something 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:19.440 like that. 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:20.719 Did he write one of the two books? 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:21.559 Probably? Sure. 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:21.960 Yeah. 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:25.560 He's widely known as the expert on the veliska axmurt 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:27.400 He knows everything there is to know, and he's got 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.000 a really fascinating So if you're even remotely into true 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.520 crime and this thing floats your boat, go check out 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:36.120 Ed's site and you will just spend days pouring over it. 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:36.520 Yeah. 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.080 One thing I realized in researching this is it was 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:43.320 way easier to get away with murder. Yeah in nineteen twelve. 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:48.320 Yeah, Yeah, there's a lot of agreement that had this 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.320 been done today, Yeah, they would have caught the guy 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:55.720 very quickly. Sure, But yeah, nineteen twelve, it was like, oh, 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.440 you wear gloves and you just confounded their only means 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:03.200 of detection basically and eyewitness pretty much. Yeah, So we 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.680 keep saying nineteen twelve specifically, Like you said, June ninth, 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:11.040 nineteen twelve, wo in the little town tenth, Well, it 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.680 was one of those things where it crossed over into midnight. Right, 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.120 So June ninth, tenth. 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:17.840 Depends on if you're still a partying. 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:19.919 Potato Potato Belliska, Melissa. 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:20.360 Right. 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:24.440 Yeah, but at five oh way East second Street in Velliska, Iowa, 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:28.760 which is in the County of Montgomery in the southeast 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:30.520 of the state, I believe not. 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:31.880 As far from here as I thought. 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:32.320 No. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.080 I just looked on a map and I was like, wait, 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:36.280 I was there. 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.400 I thought I away was like basically in Canada. No, huh, 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:43.560 where is it this more right in the middle of 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:45.640 the country. I did not realize that. 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.719 Like, it doesn't look further west than like Dallas. 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:51.800 I can believe that. But it was the north that 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:55.120 gets you, the northern, the norther ward direction, that's what 0:05:55.160 --> 0:06:00.720 gets your share. So on this night June ninth, tenthnineteen twelve, 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:06.640 in this little house there were eight people sleeping. There 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.239 were a mom and a dad, Joe and Sarah Moore, 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:17.320 and then there four kids what were their names, Charles. 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:20.640 I believe Hermann, Katherine Boyd and Paul Right. 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:25.520 And then downstairs there were two additional people sleeping in 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.240 the house, little Lena and Aina Stillinger. 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:30.120 And they were just having a sleepover. 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:30.400 Right. 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.680 Yeah, they were friends of Catherine, the oldest daughter or 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:37.919 the only daughter I guess, of the Moors, and the 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:42.000 whole group had been at church. They were Presbyterians, and 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:45.920 they had been at church that day. It was Sunday 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:50.040 for a special Children's Day Mass that Missus Moore had 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.159 helped put on and the kids had all participated in. 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:56.159 And at that mass, Catherine had asked her two friends, 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.600 Lena and Aina, the sisters, to spend the night. And 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.680 so they came back home with the Moors from the 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:07.440 children's Day Mass, and by I think ten or ten thirty, 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.760 they were all at home in bed and the lights 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:12.880 were out and the house was settled in dark. 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.040 Yeah, man, the Stillinger girls. I mean, this is all 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.960 very sad, but anytime I hear of a fateful turn, 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:21.960 like oh, yeah, we just spent the night there that night, right, 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.680 and things go bad. It always I don't know, bothers 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:25.040 me more. 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:28.240 Yeah, for sure, twists of fate are terrible, especially when 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:30.840 they result in terrible deaths. 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.920 So very late at night, like you said, after midnight, 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.760 someone crept in to the back of the house which 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:39.480 was not locked. 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:41.080 That's up for debate. 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:46.080 Oh yeah, all right, locked or unlocked? That got in 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:51.160 without raising suspicion, right, Yeah, two story house and this 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.880 is a small town, is there were I don't even 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.360 think two thousand people living there then, and I think 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.680 even less now than there were back then. Yeah, one 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:03.600 of those places. So this person, and I think by 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:05.600 all accounts we can safely say it was a man 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:11.920 creeps in this house with an axe from the property. 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.000 Yeah, it was Joe Moore's own axe. 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:14.600 Yeah. 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.160 And as we will see, apparently they call these weapons 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:22.960 of convenience because back in the day, every single house 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.280 in the US had an axe, like in the front 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:26.920 or backyard. 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.120 That just explained it. That was the question I didn't 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.960 realize i'd had. Why were there so many axe murderers 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.480 at a certain period of time in American history was 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:36.720 because everybody had an. 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.880 Axe, Yeah, and you would leave it just you know, yeah, 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:43.520 like chopped into the stump that you use as the 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:44.600 chopping block or whatever. 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:46.480 It'd be like a weapon of convenience. 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:48.680 Yeah, these days you would have to kill people with 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:52.920 like a mailbox, right, just some something that everyone has, like. 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:56.319 A silicone' spatula. 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:02.160 Or a high speed internet cable. There chokes somebody with that. Yeah, Okay, 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:04.959 all joking aside. So this dude creeps in there. He's 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.880 got this axe. He gets and this is very key here. 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.400 He gets the lamp, an oil lamp from the dresser 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:14.959 inside the house. He takes off the chimney the glass 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:19.400 you know, covering, and takes it off, bends the wick 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.560 in half so the flame is smaller, lights the lamp, 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:27.319 and then turns it down really low, and then commences creeping. 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:30.640 Yeah, with an axe in hand in this low light 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:32.800 oil lamp in the. 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:35.160 Other chimneyless lamp, which we'll see is a big clue. 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:39.960 Yeah. So he goes up the stairs, apparently, so he 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:43.800 passes the Stillinger girls first, yep, goes up the stairs. 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:49.240 He passes the children's bedroom and then opposite I believe 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:53.320 the landing from the children's bedroom are Joe and Sarah's room, 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:57.200 or is Joe and Sarah's room, and they're sleeping, and 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:01.040 he sets the oil lamp down believe at the foot 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.199 of the bed, and he raises the axe over his 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:10.559 head and using the flat the flat end, flat side 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:12.960 of the axe, not the sharp blade side, but the 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:17.520 other side, he delivers a blow to Joe's head. Joe, 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:19.760 I believe was lying on his back, even though Smithsonian 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:20.880 article says something different. 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.920 Yeah, raise it so high, he even gouged the ceiling correct. 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:27.480 Yeah, brought it down hard on Joe's head, probably killed 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:29.240 him instantly from that one blow. 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:30.120 Yeah. 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:34.240 Then apparently he didn't disturb Sarah at all because he 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:36.600 did the same thing to her. And both of them 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.720 were found in a position that they would have been sleeping. 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.360 And there wasn't like the bed clothes weren't ruffled, There 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:45.840 wasn't their arm wasn't enough to defend themselves. Right, they 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:47.880 died in their sleep, it appeared right. 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:53.880 Yes, So he kills the parents either immediately or they 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.880 die probably pretty quickly, leaves the room and goes next door. 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:01.200 And this is really just almost too awful. To talk about. 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.599 But he kills all the children in their sleep. 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.520 One by one, but again without waking any of them. 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:12.160 Yeah, by the time he got to the Stillinger girls downstairs, 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:16.880 it seemed evidence points to the fact that they may 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:18.319 have awakened. 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.960 Finally one of them, the older one Leen, and I 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:22.199 believe is the older. 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.880 One, and then he dispatches with both of them in 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.559 the same manner. Yeah, grizzly, awful murder. 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:31.880 So that's bad enough, right, This guy just went around 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.520 and murdered eight people, six of them children under the 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:38.360 age of twelve. Yeah, or twelve are under with the 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:42.680 blunted of an axe. That's bad enough. But then it 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:44.960 just gets a million times worse. And this is probably 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:50.400 why this axe murder is just part of American history, 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.600 whether we like it or not. So what the guy 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:56.160 does next is, well, he took the axe and he 0:11:56.200 --> 0:12:01.559 flips it over, and he takes the sharp side, and 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:05.800 he goes around and he starts bashing everybody's head in 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:11.440 one by one. Apparently, Joe was later found to have 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.800 been struck as many as thirty times in the head 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:18.480 with the acts. Yeah, just one by one he went 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.400 around and completely caved in the head and face of 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:26.719 all of his victims methodically throughout the house after they 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:30.040 were dead, which is a bizarre, horrible thing to do. 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.760 Yeah. So then it gets a little bit strange. He 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.360 goes around to the rooms and all over the house 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:42.559 really and does different things in each one. He covers 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.480 windows with sheets and things. He covers mirrors. 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:47.960 Yeah, all the mirrors in the house were covered. 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.959 He covered the faces of I believe all the victims, right. 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.640 Yeah, one way or another. I believe all of their 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:56.000 faces were covered. 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:57.880 With either sheets or pillowcases. Or I think in the 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.240 case of the girls, he pulled their dresses up over 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:00.800 their faces. 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:01.080 Yeah. 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:02.480 We'll talk about that in a second. 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:10.000 Uh. Yeah, it's very I think in the serial killer 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:13.240 or psychopath mode. Though I've heard of stuff like that 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:14.280 before though. 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:18.599 Right, Like, you get the idea that they don't the 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.600 murderer doesn't want the victim looking at him, Yeah, which 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.280 may also explain why he bashed their faces in you know. 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:31.360 So the guy apparently hangs out for a little while. 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:33.720 He does other weird things though. 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:36.640 With the bacon, he grabbed a two pound slab of bacon, 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.520 and I saw elsewhere that there was another slab of 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.480 bacon found in the house, but there was at least 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:44.480 one two pound slab of bacon that he wrapped in 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:46.720 a dish towel and then left on the floor of 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.240 one of the bedrooms, so weird. There was a bowl 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:53.000 of bloody water that was later found he washed himself off. 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:58.199 He washed off the axe, although he left it behind, 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.360 and he apparently hung out for a little while in 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:07.160 the house before leaving sometime before five am. So the 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:12.599 murders took place around midnight and then come five am, 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:16.760 the house is dark still it's five am, so that's 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.040 not the weirdest thing, although we're talking about Iowa, so 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.360 plenty of people were up at five, including the neighbor, 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:27.760 a woman named Mary Peckham, and she noticed that there 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.840 wasn't anybody up at the house, which was a little odd. 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.880 It was a Monday morning now, and by seven she 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.960 thought it was just downright eerie that there was no 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:40.160 sign of life at the house. She went over and 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:42.480 let the Moor's chickens out so that they could peck 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:49.280 around and feed. She called Joe Moore's store and said, hey, 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:52.320 has Joe showed up and found from the employee that 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.360 he hadn't and finally one of those two gets in 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.520 touch with a guy named Ross Moore, Joe Moore's brother, 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:02.160 and Ross comes over over and unlocks the door. The 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:06.720 front door is locked, and he goes inside and he 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.840 comes almost immediately rushing back out calling for the local 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:11.920 marshal to be called. 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:16.680 Yeah, basically he gets Hank Horton is the marshall's name, 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.760 He gets him on the scene, and this is where 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.440 things just kind of go berserk. It's such a small town, 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:30.080 such a grizzly crime. Any chances of preserving a crime scene, 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:32.720 and this is nineteen twelve. I don't even know how 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.720 much a small town like this knows about preserving a 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:40.080 crime scene at the time, but any hopes were lost 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:44.400 within those first few hours after the discovery, because by 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.520 all accounts, there were one hundred or more people that 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:52.479 went through that house, from doctors to coroners, to investigators 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.400 to just townspeople, right, that were allowed to just go 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:57.400 in there and check things out. 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:03.720 Yeah. So the first group that come with the marshall, 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:08.680 Hank Horton, right, was two doctors and a minister. 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.680 J Clark Cooper, right, great doctor name J Clark Cooper 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:17.000 and Edgar Huff and Wesley Ewing, who was the minister 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:18.200 of the church. 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.480 They were the first contingent to make it into the 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.920 house after Ross Moore came running out. So they go 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.560 in and they know enough to not disturb things too much. 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.880 Another guy gets brought in, La Linquist. He's the coroner. 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:33.320 Yep. 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.560 He tries to take some notes about the crime scene. 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:40.960 But the person who got the most information was another doctor. 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:44.240 His name was F. S. 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:44.680 Williams. 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:45.240 Yeah. F. S. 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.760 Williams was the one who examined the body and at 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:51.080 a later inquest he had the most details to offer 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.640 about the bodies and positions all that stuff. So when 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:57.680 those guys walked in, they were at least well versed 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:02.240 enough to know not disturbed things as much as possible, 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:04.159 or at least more than the townspeople knew. 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:05.000 And F. S. 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:09.400 Williams allegedly came out of the house pretty shaken and said, 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.199 don't go in there, boys, you'll regret it to your 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:16.400 last day. And the townspeople said, nuts to you. We're 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.400 going inside. We want to see some dead bodies. 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:20.600 And they all regretted it probably till their last day. 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.480 Yeah, Because they not only messed with the crime scene. 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:26.240 They poked around there was supposedly the town drunk took 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.680 fragments of Joe Moore's skull as mementos. Like. The crime 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.960 scene was toast, Like you said, if it could have 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.760 ever been preserved, it was toast. And even the local 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:39.919 druggist showed up with his camera to help preserve the 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:43.520 crime scene because he heard that the townspeople were tramping 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:47.119 all over it and Ross Moore, not understanding what he 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.040 was doing, throw the guy out, thought he was just 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.920 being a ghoul trying to get pictures. So the crime 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.359 scene is utterly and completely lost. 0:17:54.920 --> 0:18:00.880 Yeah, and one of the things about Blesca, said Vassela, 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.080 is that it was a train town. There were about 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.720 thirty trains every day that went through there, and so 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:11.479 by this time, unless this person was local and maybe 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:15.240 hiding out locally, by all accounts, the murder had probably 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:17.520 hopped the train and was out of there at that time. 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:18.160 But they didn't gone. 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.760 They didn't realize this until they had already released some bloodhounds. 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:26.240 They searched the countryside. There was like a pretty big 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.360 search to find whoever did this, and they didn't find anybody. 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:34.560 So the town was just terrified town. Of two thousand people, 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:37.720 eight including six children, had just been murdered with an 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.080 axe in your town. And now the sun's starting to 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.000 go down, and nobody's been caught, all. 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:43.640 Right, So let's take a break and we'll come back 0:18:43.680 --> 0:19:13.679 and talk about suspect number one right after this. Okay, 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:17.439 So suspect number one might be a little surprising when 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:22.040 you first hear that. He was a state senator, very 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:28.000 well well respected by some as a local businessman and 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:33.159 a very prominent Methodist. Seems the town was pretty sharply 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:38.919 divided between Methodists and Presbyterian you know those days, and 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:43.399 that stuff mattered to those people. And his name was 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:44.440 Frank Jones. 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:44.800 And. 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:51.960 Methodists immediately said, no, he's got to be innocent. This 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.399 is a fine upstanding member of our church. Presbyterians are like, no, 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.240 it's got to be him. And at first I was like, well, 0:19:58.240 --> 0:19:59.800 why would it be the state senator? None of this 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:03.399 makes sense. There were a couple of big things that 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.560 made people believe that he could be the guy. Yeah. 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:10.040 Joe Moore worked for him for seven years and was 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:14.600 one of his best salesman on his farm equipment team. 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:19.679 And apparently he left in nineteen oh seven, and was 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.240 not too happy with the work hours, which were sixteen 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:23.520 hour days, six days a week. 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:27.040 Who would be it's like us. 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.600 And then set up a rival business and even took 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.159 one of the clients, the John Deere company. 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:34.440 Yeah, that was a big one, I'm sure, so big 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:41.000 that when Sarah Peckham called Joe Moore's employee to tell 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:44.040 him the news. Yeah, Joe Moore's employee called the John 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:45.800 Deere people in Omaha to let them know. 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:47.000 Oh sure, they. 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:50.240 Were like the third people called after the bodies were discovered. 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:52.680 So he takes John Deere with him. So this set 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:59.320 up an obvious rivalry and worse than that apparently. And 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:02.159 I don't know if this is super confirmed, but at 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:05.080 least the rumor was that Joe Moore had slept with 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:07.400 Jones's daughter in law. 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:09.880 From what I understand, beyond a shadow of a doubt, 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:12.000 that's that's understood. 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:11.880 Is true? 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.560 That's true? So such with his daughter in law, who 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:18.119 apparently kind of had several affairs in town and was 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:19.880 not very discreet. 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:24.399 Yeah, apparently, according to Mike Dashitt Smithsonian, she used to 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:30.040 set up her her meet and greets over the phone. 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:33.879 Oh that's right, over the phone. And this was at 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:37.280 a time when there was a switchboard operator running the 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.600 phones in the town. Ye sat there and listen. Yeah, 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:44.639 and this lady obviously didn't care. So apparently it was 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:47.159 pretty well known that that Joe Moore had had an 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:50.840 affair with F. F. Jones's daughter in law, which is huge. 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:53.840 She put those two things together. Friends, the fact that 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.320 apparently they used to cross to the other side of 0:21:56.359 --> 0:22:01.719 the street to keep from from from encountering one another. Yeah, 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:05.120 that's a big deal in that town. In a small town, right, 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:09.440