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Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. By no stretch of

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Speaker 1: the imagination, I'm a historian. Actually, I think I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of a frustrated historian. I'm somebody that kind of romanticized

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Speaker 1: the idea about becoming one at some point in time,

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Speaker 1: perhaps saw myself in a book filled office at a

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Speaker 1: university somewhere. But then I realized those jobs are really

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Speaker 1: hard to come by. The rigor that you have to

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Speaker 1: go through in order to achieve doctoral status in the field,

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Speaker 1: and the competition, Oh my gosh, it's difficult, to say

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Speaker 1: the very least. And then I knew that I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that I would even be able to keep the

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Speaker 1: lights on in whatever home I was living in. But

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Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that I'm not fascinated. And I have

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Speaker 1: followed history my entire life. It's just something I do

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Speaker 1: most people. And here's another little slice of life from

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Speaker 1: me from behind the Kurts. People will say, hey, just Scott,

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Speaker 1: what's your crime shows do you watch? And I smile

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Speaker 1: a knowing smile and look at them and say, I

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Speaker 1: don't you know what. I spend most of my time.

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Speaker 1: Spend most of my time watching history videos on YouTube,

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Speaker 1: a matter of fact, you could probably turn the television

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Speaker 1: off in my house. I don't really watch it. But

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Speaker 1: there are those pivotal moments in any country's history that

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Speaker 1: kind of dictate the course of the way things are

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Speaker 1: going to go. And I've got to say, we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about one such event today that altered the

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Speaker 1: direction of the history of our nation in a way

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Speaker 1: that I don't know that even now we can take

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Speaker 1: the full measure of We will be able to someday,

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Speaker 1: but this event, this event impacted us almost like a

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Speaker 1: bullet being fired from a pistol. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan

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Speaker 1: and this is body Backs Deve Mac. I want to

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Speaker 1: say something to you right now. I've been around events,

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Speaker 1: I think in the course of my life where you

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Speaker 1: had one person that was kind of the focus of

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Speaker 1: something going on in a large group and they didn't

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Speaker 1: exactly behave or react in a way that they should

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Speaker 1: have maybe respond, and they were accused afterwards of not

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Speaker 1: being able to read quote unquote read the room. And

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, if we had a King of the Hill,

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Speaker 1: I think that it would probably be in our nation's history,

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Speaker 1: probably be John Wilkes Booth. He failed to read the

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Speaker 1: proverbial room, and it wound up culminating in a catastrophe

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Speaker 1: for a country that was coming out of war, and

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Speaker 1: for a region of the country, the South in particular,

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Speaker 1: that knew that they were dependent upon some level of

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Speaker 1: mercy and to have any hope of recovering after the

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Speaker 1: Civil War, and those that was dashed. It was completely

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Speaker 1: dashed by his actions that he took in Ford's Theater

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Speaker 1: that April night so many years ago, when he killed

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Speaker 1: President Lincoln.

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Speaker 2: The amazing part, Joe, is that you nailed it right

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Speaker 2: off the bat. He did not read the room right.

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Speaker 2: He thought he'd be a hero. He absolutely thought by

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Speaker 2: killing President Abraham Lincoln that all he had to do

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Speaker 2: was get across the Potomac River, get back towards the South,

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Speaker 2: and he would be They would build statues about this guy.

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Speaker 3: He really believed that he was.

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Speaker 2: But he was twenty six years old and had been

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Speaker 2: kind of jacked up in his thinking for a long time.

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Speaker 2: He was a famous entertainer in terms of a stage

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Speaker 2: actor at the time. He and his brother were both

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Speaker 2: famous actors of their think his.

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Speaker 1: Dad even surpassed them. His dad was known as this

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Speaker 1: incredible Shakespearean actor. Wow, they held a position of celebrity,

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Speaker 1: Dave that you know, you can't necessarily compare that age

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Speaker 1: with the current age. N But I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: mean you're talking about serious actors here, and they were known, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean known everywhere. I think they were even known

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Speaker 1: in Europe at that point.

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Speaker 2: And interestingly, his brother Edwin Booth. Actually, if i'm and

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Speaker 2: this could be one of those apocryphal stories, but I

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Speaker 2: believed it to be true, is that Edwin Booth saved

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Speaker 2: Tad Lincoln when he was getting one of the Lincoln children.

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Speaker 1: Robert, Yeah, Robert, it's not it's not apocryphal. Saved him, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: saved him at a train station he was gonna you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if he fell down into the well,

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Speaker 1: you know that where the train track is or whatever.

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Speaker 1: He saved him. What are the odds, you know? And

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Speaker 1: there's all these little oddities. You know that people have

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Speaker 1: done the comparison between Kennedy and Lincoln well all all

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Speaker 1: of these years, you know, and talked about it, and

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Speaker 1: some of them are very sketchy at best. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're having to do the link the linkage here, and

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Speaker 1: let's see what was what was the thing. Uh, hang

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Speaker 1: on the one that uh, let's see. Uh, it was

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Speaker 1: Kennedy's assassin. Allegedly, Lee Harvey Oss had shot the president

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Speaker 1: from a warehouse and fled to a theater, and Booth

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Speaker 1: wound up shooting President Lincoln in a theater and winds

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Speaker 1: up fleeing to They want to call it a warehouse,

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Speaker 1: it's not where.

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Speaker 3: It's a barn bar.

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Speaker 1: It's like a tobacco barn. You know. You can kind

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Speaker 1: of dig into those sorts of numerology.

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Speaker 3: You can make it do anything.

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Speaker 1: You can make it do anything. Yeah, and it's.

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Speaker 2: Fascinating to do and it's entertaining. But that's why I said,

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Speaker 2: I don't even know if it's apocryphal or true. You know,

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Speaker 2: but there are so many things surrounding the assassination of

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Speaker 2: President Lincoln, what trans and what took place afterwards, and

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Speaker 2: John Wilkes Booth and him misreading what was happening. So

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Speaker 2: today we're going to get into it. And I did not

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Speaker 2: even know this at all until you mentioned it to me.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know they did an autopsy of John Wilkes Booth.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what I was thinking. It just never

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Speaker 2: occurred to me, certainly, you're going to do an autopsy

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Speaker 2: on the president, as we covered that last year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I got to tell you, Dave, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you're aware of this. Do you know that

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Speaker 1: that wound up being one of our most popular episodes

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Speaker 1: last year when we covered the well the assassination, but

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Speaker 1: actually the autopsy of President Lincoln. And I thought that

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Speaker 1: it was I thought that it was fitting. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: know that we that we go back and talk about Booth.

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Speaker 1: You know who brought all this about, especially the history

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Speaker 1: is fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what I was gonna say. Now that I've

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Speaker 2: looked at it, I'm like, wow, I had no idea.

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Speaker 2: So to give you the quick thumbnail, he did think

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Speaker 2: he would be a hero and he wasn't. To the

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Speaker 2: South you read it right, you know, because people were

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Speaker 2: looking ahead of what can we expect what's going to

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Speaker 2: take place now? And he really did just train wreck

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Speaker 2: all of that. But after I have a question for you.

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Speaker 2: Starting right out at the beginning, most of us know

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Speaker 2: that John Wilkes Booth snuck into Lincoln's booth at Ford's Theater,

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Speaker 2: shot him from behind, and then leapt to the stage

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Speaker 2: about twelve feet down. Correct, Yes, that's correct. Did John

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Speaker 2: Wilves break his leg when he jumped?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And here's here's kind of the dynamic of it.

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Speaker 1: And it's fascinating. When he leapt over the balcony where

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Speaker 1: you know Major Rathbone and his fiancee and the President

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Speaker 1: and of course Mary Lincoln were seated, he kind of

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Speaker 1: pushed back, of course before he leapt, after he had

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Speaker 1: and people lose sight of this when he when he

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Speaker 1: shot President Lincoln he was using it was a fifty

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Speaker 1: plus caliber I think it's like a fifty four caliber derringer.

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Speaker 1: That means it's a muzzle loading, muzzle loading pistol. You

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Speaker 1: got one shot and he buried that in Lincoln's skull.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that they don't think about before Booth

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Speaker 1: exits this balcony is that he pulled out a really

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Speaker 1: big knife and he slashed Major wrath Bone, I mean,

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Speaker 1: cut him up pretty good, you know, because Rathbone was

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Speaker 1: trying to fort Booth and you can imagine, I mean,

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Speaker 1: who's going to be sitting there and suddenly hear this

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Speaker 1: report of this, of this weapon going off, and these

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Speaker 1: things are loud of Actually.

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Speaker 2: I was going to ask you because the muzzle loading

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Speaker 2: it's different than the guns we think of as a pistol,

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Speaker 2: and the sound and the smoke, it's a lot difficult.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a black powder weapon, so you'll get

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Speaker 1: this very generous cloud of smoke that comes along with it.

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Speaker 1: And just to kind of just to kind of bring

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Speaker 1: this into focus, these the weapons that the military was

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Speaker 1: using the soldiers on both sides, These are black powdered weapons,

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Speaker 1: and you know how you see them lined up, you know,

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Speaker 1: in a line of battle facing one another, almost like Napoleon.

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Speaker 1: They were using antiquated tactic with essentially modern weapons. They

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Speaker 1: had rifled weapons at that point in time, but anyway,

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Speaker 1: because of the powder, there are reports that were saying

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Speaker 1: after the first one or two volleys that were fired,

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Speaker 1: the battle feels almost like completely obscured by smoke. So

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Speaker 1: you've got this tiny space, which I've actually been to

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Speaker 1: there in Ford's Theater and it's it's not huge. Now,

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that you're the entirety of your field

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Speaker 1: of view is going to be included by the smoke,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's going to be. You've got the report

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Speaker 1: and it's a concussive sound that reaches out you've got

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Speaker 1: Mary Lincoln screamed, that's the first thing you hear, almost

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Speaker 1: immediately after the weapon goes off. And then Rathbone, who

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Speaker 1: is obviously a war veteran, he you know, he knows

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Speaker 1: what gunfire sounds. Everybody back then, you didn't have to

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Speaker 1: be a veteran. Everybody knew what gunfire sounded like. He responds,

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Speaker 1: and he's probably stunned for a second, and it's just

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Speaker 1: enough time for Booth to free up that weapon, that knife,

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Speaker 1: and he slashed Wratham. But as he did that, he's

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Speaker 1: trying to make his escape. President Lincoln security was either

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Speaker 1: in a bar drunk or he was asleep, one of

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Speaker 1: the two. And he turned out to be a total

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Speaker 1: train wreck later on in life. He was caught drinking

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Speaker 1: on the job and all sorts of things. Why in

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Speaker 1: the world they would trust the life of the president

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Speaker 1: in And you can't make the excuse and say, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: it was different times. No people, there were assassins. There

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Speaker 1: have been assassins for generations. You're just coming you're still

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Speaker 1: in a war footing, and you're gonna let the president

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Speaker 1: be in that. But anyway, when when Booth jumped over

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Speaker 1: that balcony, they have the they have the the bunting,

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Speaker 1: which is you know that that kind of curved uh

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Speaker 1: curved decorative uh uh attachment that's on the front of

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Speaker 1: the booth and it's you know, they've portrayed it as

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Speaker 1: being kind of in white and blue. Well, this goes

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Speaker 1: to premeditation, something we talked about, you know, in investigations

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Speaker 1: all the time. Booth had had his horse waiting in

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Speaker 1: the alley. A matter of fact, he had stable boy

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Speaker 1: out there that was hanging on to this horse. It

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Speaker 1: was saddled. He was ready to rock and roll, and.

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Speaker 3: He knew he's going to have to get out in

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Speaker 3: a hurry.

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Speaker 1: He did. He had his he had his spurs on right,

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Speaker 1: and so what happened was was that when he jumped

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Speaker 1: leapt his his spur got caught on that bunting and

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Speaker 1: it it fractured. It fractured his leg and uh it

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Speaker 1: was a very nasty fracture. And you know some have

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Speaker 1: said that, you know, you could you could bear witness

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Speaker 1: to the idea that he's kind of limping, limping off

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Speaker 1: off of off of the stage. It was actually his

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Speaker 1: left leg and foot and so it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: fracture it was a fracture. You have too long, these

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Speaker 1: parallel long bones in your low or leg. You've got

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Speaker 1: the tib fib Well, it was his fibula that was

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Speaker 1: actually fractured. Can imagine how painful this was fractured right

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Speaker 1: above the foot and it snapped it. So he's I know,

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Speaker 1: it makes it makes my teeth hurt. Uh. So he's

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Speaker 1: dragging his foot, you know, dragging his leg behind him,

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Speaker 1: and some people say, you know, they they're not really

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Speaker 1: sure what he said. One one is kind of the

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Speaker 1: Virginia motto that's in Latin deathbit I think death be

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Speaker 1: it always to tyrants or something like that I'm paraphrasing.

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Speaker 1: Or the South is avenged no one. And there was

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Speaker 1: total total chaos in the event. And of course people

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Speaker 1: aren't watching booth at this point, where are they watching.

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Speaker 1: They're actually looking up at the balcony where the president

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Speaker 1: had had been. And here here's the thing, Mary Lincoln.

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Speaker 1: As you can imagine, it's his wife. She's screaming. And

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Speaker 1: people knew he was up there in the audience because

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Speaker 1: did you know the play, Yeah, he got there late,

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Speaker 1: and they stopped the play. Dave the band or the

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Speaker 1: orchestra that's in literally had an orchestra pit in front

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Speaker 1: of the stage. They started playing Hell to the Chief,

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, And the actors that were on stage turned

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Speaker 1: immediately and faced the balcony as they're entering, and even

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Speaker 1: the actors on stage are applauding, So there's an awareness

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Speaker 1: that the president and his wife and their entourage has arrived.

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Speaker 3: I've never heard that.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing, Dave, You know how we mentioned that

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Speaker 1: John Wilkes Booth was illuminary in theater back then. Even

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Speaker 1: though he makes this grand statement on stage and eyes

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Speaker 1: are then turned to the president and his wife screaming

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Speaker 1: out the crowd, and those in the crowd, the theater

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Speaker 1: crowd had seen Booth perform before they knew him. They

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Speaker 1: could recognize him by face. He was a very for

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Speaker 1: those days, a very handsome dude, and they knew right

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Speaker 1: at that moment, Tom that one of the most famous

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Speaker 1: actors in the world had just murdered our president. Dave,

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Speaker 1: I got to ask you, brother, you know, I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine us being in this position. What if you know

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Speaker 1: that all hell is about to rain down on you?

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine you know? You know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you know it's all it's all real, uh. I

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Speaker 1: guess in his mind, very romanticized. He's an actor. You

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Speaker 1: know that he's going to draw these people into him.

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Speaker 1: They're going to follow him and you know, essentially canonize

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Speaker 1: him in South when the reality, the sting of that

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Speaker 1: broken leg is hitting home and he's having to drag

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Speaker 1: that thing behind him out of that theater and try

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Speaker 1: to get it just to just to get up on

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Speaker 1: that horse, put your foot in a stirrup and throw

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Speaker 1: your leg over it. You imagine where his mind is

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Speaker 1: at this point. I wonder if he had that that

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Speaker 1: sudden recollection or that sudden epiphantal moment where he said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, maybe this wasn't the best idea.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm wondering because of what all was happening. He's

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Speaker 2: in in the booth. I just I picture him screaming, hey,

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Speaker 2: y'all watch this. That's what I picture him doing before.

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Speaker 2: But he jumped and breaks his leg and as you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: a gruesome injury. Now he stands up, he holds the

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Speaker 2: dagger above his head from the stage and blood is

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Speaker 2: dripping from it because he he stuck it in you know,

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Speaker 2: Rathbond and so there's can you imagine the.

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Speaker 3: Horror of that?

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Speaker 2: They already you got the shot, you got the smoke,

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Speaker 2: the president's down, there's chaos raining, and you got this

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Speaker 2: actor world famous. He's standing on the stage in Triumph

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Speaker 2: holding the dagger over his head. They see blood dripping,

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Speaker 2: and then he takes off.

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Speaker 1: Now, well, let me pause you right there and go

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Speaker 1: back to one theater reference here that I think is fascinating.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons I mentioned his father and

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Speaker 1: his brother as well. I think his brother was like,

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Speaker 1: really really, you know, very well known that that image

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Speaker 1: of him standing on the stage holding the dagger in

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Speaker 1: his hand, that literally goes back to another case that

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Speaker 1: you and I have covered, because these guys are Shakespearean actors.

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Speaker 1: They had both I think the brother had gained great

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Speaker 1: renown in playing Brutus, or maybe it was willl because

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Speaker 1: I can't remember which one, but they had played. They

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Speaker 1: were both in Shakespeare's played Julius Caesar, and so that

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Speaker 1: theatrical move of holding the knife in their hand, and

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Speaker 1: you painted this picture, and I had thought about that

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Speaker 1: of blood perhaps, you know, kind of seeping down that

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Speaker 1: blade and dripping onto the stage, and maybe no one

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Speaker 1: could appreciate it. But what's important here is that Booth

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Speaker 1: appreciated it from the sense that this is the ultimate

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Speaker 1: in theater. And I think, little did he know this

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Speaker 1: is the last time he's going to appear on stage.

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Speaker 1: Pure right.

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Speaker 2: It's so weird that he thought in his mind of

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Speaker 2: mind that you know, they thought they were over there

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Speaker 2: in the government. He also didn't know that the conspiracy

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Speaker 2: to overthrow the government was him, that everybody else had

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Speaker 2: failed at their duty that night pretty much, and the

303
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Speaker 2: conspiracy that, you know, they were not just after killing

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Speaker 2: the president. It was a plan to take out the

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Speaker 2: working aspects of the United States government. And as he

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Speaker 2: gets out there, to his horror, and you mentioned that

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Speaker 2: he had a guy holding the horse, how how does

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Speaker 2: he get on that? I mean, it's not easy to

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Speaker 2: get on a horse with both legs working properly, regardless

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Speaker 2: of adrenaline. He's now outside and you mentioned the pain.

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Speaker 2: It's got to be horrible, and I'm just wondering he

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Speaker 2: has to get out. But every time he's riding that horse,

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Speaker 2: now the.

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Speaker 1: Pain's humping down. Yeah, he's got his spurs on, so

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Speaker 1: you know, he's ready to roll, and he's for those

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Speaker 1: For those of y'all that have never ridden horse, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're saddled up your your feet, are they fit

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Speaker 1: into the stirrups that hang down? You know a lot

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Speaker 1: of people understand this, but let's just try to get

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Speaker 1: an idea of the biomechanics that are going on here,

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Speaker 1: because you can make it excellent, excellent. Yeah, it's like

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Speaker 1: it's like it is like a shock absorber. But let's

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Speaker 1: just let's just pretend that that shock absorber, uh, the

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Speaker 1: leg is now kind of that piston that's inside of

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Speaker 1: the shock ups orb, and that thing is fractured. It's

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Speaker 1: not going anywhere. Well if it does. Every time you know,

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Speaker 1: you hit that horse takes a step there, and trust me,

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Speaker 1: he's not trotting. He's got this thing. You know, he's

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Speaker 1: going you know, uh, you know, he's put the spurs

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Speaker 1: to it as they as they say, hell bent for leather,

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Speaker 1: you know, and he's riding and every time that horse

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Speaker 1: bounces along the way, that pain is shooting up the leg. Now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's he's going to have a huge burst of adrenaline.

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Speaker 1: But those broken and fractured bones within his leg are

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Speaker 1: first off, there's a high probability they didn't have an

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Speaker 1: X ray to do this with back then. This is

337
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Speaker 1: merely my you know, projection. Here. There's a high probability

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Speaker 1: that this bone has ripped through the adjacent muscle structure

339
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Speaker 1: in his lateral aspects of his leg. I don't know

340
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Speaker 1: about the calf, but it probably fragmented as well, and

341
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Speaker 1: so you've got little fragments of bone in there that

342
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Speaker 1: are bouncing around. And every time that horse, you know,

343
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Speaker 1: jostle's about, he's gonna feel it and it's gonna be excruciating,

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Speaker 1: and you talk about a cold cup of coffee. All

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, he has an awareness now that he

346
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Speaker 1: ain't you know, he's he's no longer you know with

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Speaker 1: his play pretties up on the stage. This is reality.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's he's into it. Now, he's into it,

349
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Speaker 1: and I'm sure he's probably having second thoughts and his

350
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Speaker 1: conspirator is waiting with him. And you know, there was

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Speaker 1: a whole gang of these people that you know, that

352
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Speaker 1: he was involved with, that he had come together and

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Speaker 1: you know, most of these people are they're real adults

354
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Speaker 1: to begin with, you know, they're not. They're not the

355
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Speaker 1: brightest among us, and just on like a little aside.

356
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Speaker 1: You know, one of these I think had gone to

357
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Speaker 1: Secretary Seward's house at the same time Booth was in

358
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Speaker 1: Ford's theater, slashed him about and he had had a

359
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Speaker 1: neck injury and he had a neck brace around his

360
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Speaker 1: next the only thing that kept him from having his

361
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Speaker 1: throat cutting. When the guy run out into the street,

362
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Speaker 1: he starts crying murder, murder, murder. He's like out of

363
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Speaker 1: his mind at this point time. You've got a couple

364
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Speaker 1: of guys that are one at least that turned into

365
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 1: a real coward and couldn't couldn't go forward because they

366
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Speaker 1: had planned to kill everybody there. There was actually a

367
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Speaker 1: plan that General Grant right, he was supposed to be

368
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Speaker 1: there with Lincoln, and because Grant's wife allegedly couldn't stand

369
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Speaker 1: Mary Lincoln, they were like, I think we'll go. He

370
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Speaker 1: made his excuses and and and left. But you know,

371
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Speaker 1: here you have here you have Booth riding off into

372
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Speaker 1: the night, Dave and to parts unknown, maybe maybe to us,

373
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Speaker 1: but I think he had an idea where he was headed.

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Speaker 2: He was trying. You know, they did have a plan,

375
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Speaker 2: and it was to get to the naval bridge. They

376
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 2: got to get to the Navy shipyard and that's where

377
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Speaker 2: David Harold is waiting.

378
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Speaker 3: But as he.

379
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Speaker 2: Gets there, this is this the little things you didn't

380
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Speaker 2: plan on, you know. It wasn't like it is today

381
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Speaker 2: where communication happens, you know, right away. And so as

382
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,239
Speaker 2: John Willikes Booth is making his escape, he gets to

383
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Speaker 2: a bridge that has been closed for the night, done,

384
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Speaker 2: not going anywhere, and it's the Navy yard bridge and

385
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 2: John Willkes Booth, now we're going back to the famous

386
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 2: actor thing. The guys guarding the bridge haven't heard about

387
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 2: the assassination that just took place, and John Willkes Booth

388
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 2: needs to cross the bridge, and they stop him, and

389
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Speaker 2: he talks his way into it because famous actor, Hey

390
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 2: just got to get through here, guys, and they're like,

391
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Speaker 2: oh okay. So he is able to cross the bridge

392
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Speaker 2: and that's where he meets up with David Harold. And

393
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 2: now those two are going to be married at the

394
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 2: hip for the next few days until death to us

395
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 2: part almost and that's where their journey begins. Now, Booth thought,

396
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Speaker 2: all we have to do get across the Potomac River.

397
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Speaker 2: And once we're there, we're we're in God's country. We're

398
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 2: at Dixie we're home free. There'll be parades waiting for us.

399
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Speaker 3: You know. Didn't happen that way.

400
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 1: No, no, it didn't. And you know the thing about

401
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: it is, I think a lot of people when many

402
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: people think, you know, they'll think of my home state

403
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: of Louisiana when you think swamp. Let me tell you something. Oh, Virginia, Virginia,

404
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: and down in North Carolina, and and of course South

405
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,239
Speaker 1: Carolina too, that whole area right there. You're in that

406
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: tidle basin, and let me tell you something. There's a

407
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Speaker 1: lot of rough terrain in there. A matter of fact,

408
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: I think the one area there in Virginia, I think

409
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Speaker 1: they call it, and here's the name, the dismal Swamp.

410
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: Can you imagine. I think that's a place I would

411
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: want to avoid. But you know, that's the terrain that

412
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: Booth and Harold found themselves trying to negotiate. And not

413
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,959
Speaker 1: only are they trying to negotiate it, they're trying to

414
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: negotiate it with a busted leg, essentially at night, with

415
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: a leg that is just ripping in pain. It's torn,

416
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: it's torn through through the musculator in his leg, and

417
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: it's horrible. And you can imagine how excruciating this was

418
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: just to try to just any movement. There's a reason

419
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: why even if your leg is not set, if you

420
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,479
Speaker 1: are if you have a fractured limb, they tell you

421
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: need to rest, stay off of it, or in case

422
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: of an arm, don't use it. And you talk about

423
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,719
Speaker 1: the antithesis of that boy is he using it or what?

424
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: Because and this is uneven terrain. When you get off

425
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: into the swamps, you're not going to be on the

426
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 1: back of a horse. You have to negotiate this area

427
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: and find somebody that can help you through it. And

428
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: I think, if I'm not mistaken, it was actually a

429
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: former slave that, not knowing what was going on, he

430
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: had to act as a guide to get them through

431
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: the swamp.

432
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 2: It's funny because I was going to ask you about

433
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 2: the leg break, Joe, I'm funny strange. Is it pap

434
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 2: for a leg breaking a broken leg to be fatal?

435
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah. And there's a couple of

436
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: ways it could be. First off, if that leg fractures

437
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: and you clip a major vessel in there, or a

438
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 1: couple of vessels, you can bleed out. That is possible

439
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: with these fractures. What happens is you can have this

440
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: infection that sets in and it necrotizes. Essentially, it means

441
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: it dies. You know. It's where we get termed, you know,

442
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: necros we're talking about death and the tissues begin to

443
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: die and rot in that area. So the longer you

444
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: go and this thing remains untreated, dependent upon how much

445
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: damage is done, you can and it would take quite

446
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: a bit of time, but you're going to see like

447
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: an onset of fever. You're going to see a kind

448
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: of a delirious state, and then the leg will literally

449
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: start to turn black and it would eventually have to

450
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 1: be ampy. That is, if you cannot get to a

451
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: doctor and have this thing set and wrapped. And David,

452
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, interestingly enough, another interesting intersection

453
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: with history. The physician involved in the saying is actually

454
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 1: an ancestor of somebody that you and I grew up

455
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: listening to we were kids.

456
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 3: How weird. It's so weird, it really is.

457
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: Oftentimes he gets listed in the group of conspirators, and

458
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: we're talking about Samuel Mudd in this particular case, John

459
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: Wilkes Booth with the broken leg him, David Harold, they're

460
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 2: now on their way trying to escape together, and they

461
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 2: go to a bar.

462
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 3: Sir Rottville. There's a Surt tavern.

463
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 2: They've changed the name of that now, but I always

464
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: think of Mary Sarat, you know, yeah, yeah, being hung

465
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 2: as part of the conspiracy, because that's where they actually

466
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: created it. But anyway, so they're at the tavern and

467
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 2: John Wilkes Booth brags to the bartender that he just

468
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: killed Abraham Lincoln. Now you're trying to escape. I don't

469
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 2: think telling people this is a good thing.

470
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 3: But it's Jol's booth.

471
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.

472
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 2: But he and David Harold leave there because they know

473
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 2: they've got to get the leg treated. He knows that

474
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 2: Samuel Mudd, doctor Mud, is in the area, and he

475
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 2: goes to doctor Mudd's house and gets him to set

476
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 2: the leg. There is a lot of different stories told

477
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 2: about whether or not Mud was involved in a conspiracy,

478
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 2: if he was on the side of Booth or whatever.

479
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 2: The one thing that has been said is that Mud,

480
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 2: doctor Samuel Mudd, did know John Willis Booth from a conspiracy.

481
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: They had to kidnap the president a year before. I

482
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: don't even know if that's true. It's just part of our.

483
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: Lord it's hard. It's really hard to validate that. And

484
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: I know what's you know, and what I was mentioning

485
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: is that Samuel Mudd was the great grandfather of Roger Mudd.

486
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: And when you and I were kids, Roger Mudd was

487
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: on the nightly news every night. You know, you're sitting

488
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: there and yeah, I mean, how many times as kids

489
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: did we watch him.

490
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 2: The one thing that comes to mind with him for

491
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: me politics, because he was a political reporter, you know,

492
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: for years, and it was Roger Mudd.

493
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 3: Think about it.

494
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 2: We were talking about the different connections between the Kennedy

495
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: assassination and the Lincoln assassination. And in this particular case

496
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: where Samuel Mudd fixed the leg of John Wilkes booth

497
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: during his escape, Roger Mudd is talking to John to

498
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 2: Teddy Kennedy right before in nineteen seventy nine. It happened

499
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: on November fourth, nineteen seventy nine, they have this interview

500
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 2: on national television. They're hoping ted Kennedy will announce that

501
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: he is running for the Democratic nomination for president, even

502
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: though Jimmy Carter is a Democrat and he's the incumbent,

503
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,959
Speaker 2: and at that time polling showed that Kennedy. Ted Kennedy

504
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 2: was favored two to one over Jimmy Carter.

505
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 3: And the in his party.

506
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: So this is they were hoping he would announce it

507
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 2: on Nash Television with Roger Mudd. He didn't and asked

508
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 2: it a couple of days later. But there was a

509
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: question that Roger Mudd asked that night in front of

510
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 2: a nationwide audience. He asks Ted Kennedy, why do you

511
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 2: want to be president? Ted Kennedy couldn't answer it. His

512
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 2: campaign ended that night before it ever began. He never

513
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 2: regained his footing. He did not win the nomination. Carter

514
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: got the nomination and lost in a landslide to Reagan,

515
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 2: but his campaign ended with that one question from Roger Mudd.

516
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: Isn't that amazing the way history kind of entangles itself

517
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: like this? It's fascinating to look back and look, I

518
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: want to give doctor Mudd his due real quick, and

519
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: it's important to remember this, and I'm trying not to

520
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: bury the lead here, but doctor Samuel Mudd was eventually arrested.

521
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: He was charged, I think as a conspirator, probably relative

522
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: to treason. He was actually sent to If you can

523
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: imagine how hillacious this would have been actually sent to

524
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: an army prison in Florida. You imagine how hot that was. Well,

525
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: what'd they have? They had a fever outbreak that occurred

526
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: down there, and you know, he distinguished himself while he

527
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: was there, and he begins to treat everybody guards, he

528
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: treats family members, he treats prisoners and tries to pull

529
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: them back from the edge. And you know, whether or

530
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: not Mud himself was actually involved, and I'm talking about

531
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: doctor Samuel Mudd as part of conspiracy, I don't know,

532
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: But again it goes back to this idea that things

533
00:31:39,280 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: aren't always as they've seen. So the powers that be,

534
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: primarily Stanton back in Washington, Stanton was the Secretary of War.

535
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: I believe that's correct. They're frustrated because they haven't found

536
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: Booth and there, as they say, they're curry combing the uh,

537
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: the landscape out there trying to find him, and they've

538
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: got they've actually got military detachments, these soldiers that are

539
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: assigned to these these troopers. It's not like they're seasoned veterans.

540
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: These guys have stared down war. They've been through just hell,

541
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: you know, over low these many years since you know,

542
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: since the war broke out, and they had Calvary units

543
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: that were out searching, searching and looking for Booth and

544
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: anybody else that could could have been, you know, linked

545
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: to him. And but this is what they wanted, Dave.

546
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: They they didn't want to have they didn't want to

547
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: have a hide that they could tack to the wall.

548
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: They wanted this guy alive. Yes, they wanted him alive

549
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: because they wanted to try to understand what had happened.

550
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: They wanted him, I think, to stand up before court

551
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: and have to stand and deliver, say what he did,

552
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: you know actually, and maybe point to anybody else in

553
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: needs the peripherals. But you know, they unfortunately the country

554
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: was not going to get that satisfaction.

555
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting Joe that the John Wills Booth

556
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 2: kills Lincoln and then as he's on his run, he

557
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 2: and David Harold they get the leg set at doctor

558
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: Mudd's house. Doctor Mudd kicks them out. They're trying to

559
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: find another Confederate guy and it's at night. They're having

560
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 2: trouble finding him, and they stumble upon the house of

561
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 2: Oswald Swan, who is a free black man. He's got

562
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 2: a cabin and so he doesn't know what's happening with Lincoln.

563
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: He doesn't know. He just got two guys. They need help,

564
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: and so he really wasn't given a lot of opportunity

565
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 2: to say no. But he did lead them to the

566
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 2: home of the Confederate that they were looking for. The

567
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: guy's names escaping me. It was a coxplantation that they

568
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 2: were trying to find. They pay the man they paid no,

569
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: John Wilkes Booth, David Harrold's Booth kills the President, kills Lincoln,

570
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 2: and then paying a black man twelve dollars to lead

571
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: them to their Confederate.

572
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 3: They end up.

573
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: This happens another time too with the Lucas family. During

574
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: this time they're on the run, nobody will help him.

575
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 2: John Wolkes Booth is getting mad every step along the way.

576
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: Where he expected to be treated like a hero. They

577
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 2: had all these Confederates, you know, people that were spread

578
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: out throughout the area that you know, had they all

579
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: talked about helping, We'll be there for you, you know,

580
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 2: whatever you need. But then when he needs their help,

581
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: all they're doing is giving him food and saying go,

582
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: not giving him money, not giving him just here's some food.

583
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 3: Leave.

584
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, But you can imagine what these people had seen. Yeah,

585
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: they've seen the troopers on horses hell bent for leather,

586
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: and they're yelling and they're screaming, and they're showing up

587
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: at barns and homes and you know that this I'm

588
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: not sure, but I think that it was still in place.

589
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: You know, Lincoln had suspended habeas corpus, right, and so

590
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: what that means is, dude, you ain't gonna rights if

591
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: we're looking for somebody, we're coming in your house. And

592
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: people are terrified, and they understand that they're in a

593
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: defeated state. Now the Confederacy, whether or not you were

594
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 1: aligned with the Confederacy in this region or not, and

595
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: you were just living your life as as would be.

596
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 1: You know, they knew that well, first off, the Union's

597
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 1: blood was boiling. There were people back in d C.

598
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: They did, in fact want bloody. They wanted Booth's head

599
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: on a pike and news. I know that they didn't

600
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: live in the world that we live in with the

601
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: quick turnaround on news. Trust me, the word had gone

602
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 1: out at this point in time, and word would travel

603
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: fast between these farms. I can only imagine. Oh yeah,

604
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,479
Speaker 1: and they knew that if they're caught with this guy,

605
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 1: it was going to be curtains.

606
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 2: For And so that's where these people who had been

607
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: sympathizer all along now are saying, here's some food.

608
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:19,479
Speaker 3: Leave.

609
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 2: They were making him get off my property. You cannot

610
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: stay here. And so he ends up at the home

611
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: of a black family, the Lucas family, and uh and

612
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 2: Booth was mad because all these people he thought were

613
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 2: going to provide help, nobody's helping.

614
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 3: And he's at the end of the day.

615
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: He's got no place to sleep, he's got he's hungry,

616
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 2: and he ends up at the home of William Lucas,

617
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 2: who is a freed slave. He's a black man. He

618
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 2: got his family there in his own cabin and well

619
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: and Booth showing his he's so grateful. He grabs a knife,

620
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 2: threatens mister Lucas and his family and kicks him out

621
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 2: of their own house and sleeps in their house that night.

622
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 2: And anyway, so for the next that that pretty much

623
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 2: winds up the running of John Wilkes Booth. You know,

624
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 2: as we know, he ends up in a barn, and

625
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 2: this is where they were told, we want him alive.

626
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 2: Do not shoot this man, do not kill this man,

627
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 2: we need to take him alive. And when it comes

628
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 2: right down to it, Joe, He's hiding out in a

629
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 2: tobacco barn with David Harrell.

630
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 3: They're surrounded by.

631
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 2: Guns, weapons, military police, everybody that you know wanted to

632
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 2: get John Wilkes Booth was there and he won't come out,

633
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: and so they decide to light the cabin on fire

634
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 2: light or at the barn, the tobacco barn. They go

635
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,919
Speaker 2: to light the tobacco barn on fire. David Harrel runs out.

636
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 2: All the while John Wilkes Booth is calling him a coward.

637
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: But what happens next is exactly what they didn't want

638
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: to have happened. John Wilkes Booth gets shot.

639
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: One shot, one shot, and that's all it took and

640
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: it was actually fired. Well, first off, interesting things. First Off,

641
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: let's talk about the guys shot him. Yeah, you talk

642
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: about you know how they talk about the stars are

643
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 1: converging in the heavens, Well, you got two nut jobs

644
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: that are essentially converging on one spot. Okay, Boston Corbett

645
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: was the name of the trooper that shot him, and

646
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: they were you know, these troops were under direct orders,

647
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: you know, under penalty of court martial to not shoot

648
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: John Wills booth. Now they had fired what they call

649
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: fire the barn they had the thing had gotten set

650
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: on fire and they were gonna try to flush him out.

651
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: He was refusing to come out. And if you've ever

652
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 1: you know, I love our area of the country. And

653
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: if you particularly as you start to head up through

654
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,919
Speaker 1: the Piedmont, you know, heading northeast, and you're going through

655
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: North Carolina and Virginia, and you see these old tobacco barns,

656
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: the really old ones, I'm not talking about modern ones.

657
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 1: And you can see those those beautiful pieces of wood

658
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: that are seasoned on the outside and there's gaps in

659
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: between the slats, and this would have been the case

660
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: up there in Virginia as well. You can see what's

661
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: going on inside that barn. And so Boston Corbett had

662
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 1: positioned himself with what's referred to as a Colts dragoon,

663
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 1: and it is a Colts dragoon, and dragoons were up.

664
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 1: The name dragoon actually had to do with calvalry mounts.

665
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: And these pistols were so big that you wouldn't you

666
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: could wear it in your belt, but many of these

667
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: guys kept these in holsters on their saddle, and someone

668
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: would carry two and they're big, really big, and it's

669
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: a muzzle. It's essentially it's like a muzzle loading. You

670
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: can take the you can actually take the cylinder out

671
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: and load it individually. And so Corbett has the opportunity

672
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: to sit there and watch Booth. Okay, he's got this

673
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 1: great shooting position that he's in and he pops off

674
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: one round and it clips eclips Booth in his cervical spine.

675
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: Of course, they have to evacuate him out. But back

676
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: to Corbett, what makes him start on fire? Barns on fire? Yeah,

677
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: and he knows it. And you know, I think Corbett,

678
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: going back he is to say that he is a

679
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: religious zealot is probably an insult to religious zelos. He

680
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: at early he was born in London, and to think

681
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: about it, is he from an early early on in

682
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: his life he was exposed to mercury. Mercury fumes probably

683
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: around you know, and that's that's where the term mad

684
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: hatter comes from. Yeah, you know, because mercury was used,

685
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: and so he had displayed all kinds of psychoses, you know,

686
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: throughout his life. So much so, Dave, are you ready

687
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: for this, Are you ready for this? As if this

688
00:40:52,680 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: story couldn't get any more bizarre, Boston Corbett. Boston Corbett

689
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 1: self castrated himself. He had taken his testicles off so

690
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: that he could remain focused on God and God's work,

691
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: and in his world, God's work was abolition, and that

692
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: that was his primary focus in life. And so this,

693
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: you know, interestingly enough, he struck a blow. I think,

694
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: probably at least in his own mind, that this was

695
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: going to be a great, big, fat, giant red exclamation

696
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: point on everything, you know, and he had that one

697
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: and he'd I don't think that he if he cared

698
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: if he was going to swing from a sour apple

699
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,479
Speaker 1: tree or not. You know, they were going to tie

700
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: a rope around his neck, and of course I think

701
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: that some people probably viewed him as as a hero,

702
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 1: and that's that's what he wanted. But yeah, you know,

703
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: when when they dragged Booth out, he's still alive, and

704
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 1: he lives, Dave, I think, I think for two to

705
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: three hours, and the troopers are all gathered around him,

706
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: and his last request before he dies is he asked

707
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: to see his hands, and they hold his hands up

708
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: to him because you know, we're talking about an insult

709
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 1: that's like C four, C five, C six. First off,

710
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,919
Speaker 1: he's it's hard to believe that he survived that long

711
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,760
Speaker 1: with that kind of injury, because he's got a ball

712
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,399
Speaker 1: that's passing through there. Lead ball that's passing through there

713
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: eclips the spinal cord. And you know, as you know,

714
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: the closer you get to the brain with damage to

715
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: the spinal cord, there's there's a less likelihood that you're

716
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: going to survive this because you know, you're starting to

717
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: get into all these functions that require these neurons be

718
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 1: firing all of the time. But he survived for that,

719
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,439
Speaker 1: and I think like his last words were something along

720
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: the line of useless, useless, and then he dies. But

721
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: the question then becomes, how do we how do we

722
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: validate this? And back then they didn't have DNA. Heck,

723
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: they didn't even have fingerprints, Dave, I mean we you know,

724
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: the ancient Chinese. Yeah, I mean, we leave, we were

725
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: leaving fingerprints back then, but they were not being used

726
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: for identification. Okay, yeah, that's not that's something that would

727
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: not come along until I don't know, sir Henry developed it,

728
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 1: you know in India, where it had the Henry system,

729
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: and so it was not something that was recognized. So

730
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: you had to have people visually, you know, identify and

731
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: you're talking about a body that's unpreserved. And why is

732
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: it important, Well, out of all the cases day from

733
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: a medical legal perspective, and a homicide like this, you

734
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: if you're in a political position, you have to assure

735
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: the public that this is in fact John Wilkes Booth.

736
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 1: He's dead. He is dead. We have we can validate that.

737
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: And and so what winds up happening is that they

738
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: wrap his body up and you know, throw him on

739
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: the back of a horse. You know, we've seen you know,

740
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: you've seen Western movies, you know where the bounty hunter

741
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 1: will go out and you know, bring bring a body in,

742
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: you know, to and I don't know there were probably

743
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: other mediums of transportation for them at that point in time,

744
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: but along the way. But initially they rode off with

745
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: his body wrapped up in an army blanket and they

746
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: had to get him somewhere, you know, under they were

747
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: being directed by Stanton at this point in time, and people,

748
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: I don't think that people really understand how powerful Stanton was.

749
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: He was for these people. He was Lord Almighty on Earth.

750
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: He controlled the military. He was the Secretary of War

751
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: as they called it back then, and he, you know,

752
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 1: he he laid down the law and that's what they wanted,

753
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: and that's what was going to have to happen. So

754
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: they wind up taking Booth's body to of all things,

755
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: a gunboat, a gunboat that was you know, anchored out

756
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: in the river, and took him out there. And they

757
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: actually did an autopsy on John Wilkes Boo's body on

758
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: the deck of this gunboat. And before they did that,

759
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 1: they had several people that they knew that new boot,

760
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: and they brought them on board and showed the face.

761
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 3: They had to get that visual ide, didn't I mean.

762
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: They had to because it was essential. You had to

763
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: have it because there would always be questions. I mean,

764
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: think about all the you know, all of the kind

765
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: of uh these comments that are made now about people

766
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: tenfold hats all this, Yeah, it's a flat earth, those

767
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: sorts of things, and so, you know, you had they

768
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: understood this, I think they may have understood it better

769
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: than we did, uh, you know. And and what was

770
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: kind of interesting was that Booth for this particular time,

771
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: they he actually had a. He actually had a tattoo

772
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: which I found fascinating, and it was his initials. It

773
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: was JB. You know. And of course they were able

774
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: to identify his his body visa VI that. But you know,

775
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: these surgeons are out there. Uh. And I've I've actually

776
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: assisted with autopsies in an outdoor situation where we had

777
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: multiple deaths. Uh. It's hot, you're dealing with flies, and

778
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: most of the time you're gonna have a number of

779
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: people standing around you while you're under these miserable conditions.

780
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: I've actually done an autopsy in a barn before, believe

781
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: it or not. And yeah, uh and again it was

782
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: adjacent to a plane crash and we had to do

783
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: these in space that we had available to us.

784
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 3: Wow.

785
00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 1: Uh yeah. And so in in their examination the what

786
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: in their own language, this doctor Joseph Woodward that actually

787
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 1: did the autopsy. They wound up doing the autopsy on

788
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 1: April April twenty eighth. Booth had I think his date

789
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,959
Speaker 1: of death was actually April twenty six, So two days

790
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: later they're having to cross all of this this countryside

791
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: to get to the to get to to get to

792
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: this this warship that was out there. So what would

793
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: happen is is that you would get essentially two saw horses. Okay,

794
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: everybody knows what a saw horse is, right, you know,

795
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 1: you cut wood on it, and in this environment, you

796
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: take like an old door and it's obviously off the hinges.

797
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: You lay the old door over the saw horses, and

798
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: you have at it. You do your autopsy on the

799
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: surface of an old door like that, and they're out

800
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: on the deck of the ship and they're examining his body,

801
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: and the things that he did confirm at autopsy is

802
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: that And this is a fascinating point here when we

803
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: begin in forensics to talk about range of fire. The

804
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:20,359
Speaker 1: doctor in his own way, actually said that this was

805
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: an indeterminate range of fire because he states in his

806
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 1: examination that the projectile was fired from yards away. So

807
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: how do you come to that conclusion That means that

808
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: you're not going to have stippling, you're not going to

809
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: have powder deposition. He didn't see it, so he knew

810
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: that it had to be yards away. And then you've

811
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,280
Speaker 1: got the circumstantial evidence of Corbett standing in that crack

812
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: of the barn, or placing that gigantic pistol in the

813
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: crack of the arm of the barn and firing that weapon,

814
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: and that it actually penetrated the fourth cervical vertebra and

815
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 1: it cut through the muscle that it's essentially that kind

816
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: of comes down off of the side of the neck

817
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: and wraps around the clavicle. So if you can just

818
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: envision this, uh in your in your mind, that it's

819
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: the round actually enters. If folks at home will just

820
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: kind of imagine if you'll find that that bony protuberance

821
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: on the back of your head, uh, your ox put

822
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 1: and kind of go down about four maybe three inches

823
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: down your neck, the backside of your neck. That's going

824
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 1: to approximate the location where that round struck his body.

825
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 1: It'll only be on the right side of the neck.

826
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: And so it clipped also the fifth, the fifth vertebra

827
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 1: as well. He was able to determine the directionality, if

828
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: you will, and this is this is interesting. It was

829
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 1: kind of a downward trajectory. So when Corbett fired this round,

830
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 1: it's traveling downward toward the target and he's yards away

831
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: with this thing. And you know, pistols are not fantastically accurate,

832
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: but he scored as I think that he was probably

833
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 1: aiming for the head and he hit the neck. But still,

834
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: you know, when you look at it with a pistol shot,

835
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: that's a pretty impressive shot. And so when it it

836
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: traverses through traverses through the the you know, the neck,

837
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: it actually exits out of the out of the left

838
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: left side, and you know, that's that's eventually what what

839
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: brought brought about his death. And you know, the doctor

840
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 1: had probably they understood enough enough neuroscience at that point

841
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 1: to understand that at certain points along you know, the

842
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: spinal column, if areas along there are clipped, uh, it's

843
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: going to you know, impact your ability to move and

844
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: those sorts of things. And they, you know, they they

845
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: talked about how he went into a general proalysis and

846
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: also this area control the diaphragm. Day, so the patient

847
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: begins to suffer from this kind of shallow breathing or

848
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,879
Speaker 1: the diaphragm will not no longer work. The individual has

849
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: to be manipulated and moved in order for them to

850
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: take up just minimum amount of oxygen. And that's what

851
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: they were faced with. And there were you know, it

852
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:30,720
Speaker 1: it was an unsurvivable wound to say the very least.

853
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: The fact that they were able to annotate this trauma

854
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: and do it in such very exacting terms, which is

855
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: fascinating to me, Dave, Where they talk about this this

856
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 1: kind of area of hemorrhage, I would imagine that if

857
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 1: you're talking about a two day ride, you've already got

858
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,799
Speaker 1: this blood, these vessels have been clipped in the spinal cord.

859
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: You've got this kind of it's not necrosis at this point,

860
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 1: it's it's actually decomposition that's going on. So at that level,

861
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: and what they would have done is they would have

862
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: gone in posteriorly and or antirily after they got the

863
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: organs of the neck like the wind pipe and everything

864
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 1: cleared out. They're taking out these vertebral bodies. They're going

865
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 1: to take them out, They're going to clip them away,

866
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: they're going to pull the whole thing out. And interestingly enough,

867
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: they saved some of these specimens, and I think, if

868
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, they can actually be viewed at the

869
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: Mutter Museum, which is actually in Philadelphia, which is a

870
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: fascinating place. It's all kinds of medical anomalies and all

871
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 1: these sorts of things. Isn't that fascinating though, that they

872
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 1: were able to make this diagnosis and as a matter

873
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: of fact, compared to some of the autopsies that I

874
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: read even today and review in all the cases that

875
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: I do for our show and Nancy Show and all

876
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: these other things, this was actually very well done. But

877
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: a lot of that goes back to the War Department

878
00:52:54,880 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: with Stanton. He wanted exactitude in this. He wanted everything

879
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 1: to be confirmed. But you know, at the end what

880
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:10,760
Speaker 1: became of Wilkes's body is kind of fascinating. They we

881
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: had these great, big, old Springfield muzzle loading rifles, you

882
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,839
Speaker 1: know that our guys used, and they're very heavy, and

883
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 1: these things would come packed in a box and they

884
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: were kind of bracketed in there with these wooden brackets.

885
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 1: They actually took a gun box. They didn't give him

886
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 1: a coughin. They took an old They took an old

887
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: gun box wrapped his body. How appropriate is this in

888
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 1: an army blanket in my day when I was in

889
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 1: the army. Army blanket, I can't imagine it would feel

890
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: any better. But their wool, they've got a big us

891
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: on them. That's how you had to tuck in your bed.

892
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: And every trooper in the world was issued one of

893
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 1: these things. They wrapped his body in this in an

894
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: army blanket, it inside of a gun box, and then

895
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: took him, dug a big hole down underneath underneath this

896
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 1: facility and dropped him in there and then essentially covered

897
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: it up. And that's where his body laid. This was

898
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 1: actually at the old He was buried in the old

899
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: Penitentiary in the Washington Arsenal Grounds, and you know that

900
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: that was where he wound up coming to rest. But

901
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: you know that the thing is and I think I

902
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: don't normally end shows this way, but I got to

903
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: say I think that looking back on this, and we

904
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:44,439
Speaker 1: talked about how these moments and times kind of converged, Dave,

905
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 1: what John Wilkes Booth did to our country set our

906
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 1: country back probably one hundred and fifty years. And Abraham

907
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:04,280
Speaker 1: Lee was famous, and again I'm paraphrasing, so please forgive

908
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 1: me y'all. He said, at one point in time, he

909
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: wanted to extend mercy to all, mercy to all, and

910
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: it didn't matter you know what your station was. He

911
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 1: wanted to heal the country. And the problem is is

912
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 1: that that one person that was in the balance, that

913
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: held everything in the balance, that wanted to extend mercy,

914
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 1: he wanted the country to heal that wound, any healing

915
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: that had started with that one fired shot that night

916
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:46,959
Speaker 1: in Ford's theater ripped that wound to shreds and set

917
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:53,720
Speaker 1: us back years and years and years as we moved forward,

918
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,840
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body