WEBVTT - Dwight Yoakam 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.360 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:17.279 My guest today is my friend Dwight. Yoakum, Dwight. Good 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:18.119 to be talking to you. 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:21.320 Good to talk to you, buddy. I'm I'm always flattered 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.640 you will consider me a friend and thank you. From 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:26.920 the time we last sol and I think we were 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.640 in the bottom of the it was pre COVID because 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:32.640 we were in the building over at the at XM 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.000 when we all were going up. You were passing me 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:37.720 in the night on an elevator. You were coming from 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:40.040 doing your show and I was just starting my you know, 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.199 my nocturnal vampire kind of you know. 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.000 Okay, people can't see. This is audio only, but you're 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:49.600 wearing a hat with STP. 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:52.280 Yeah, and I just don't have my foster grants on. 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:54.760 You know, Richard Petty, you won't see remember, you won't 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:56.120 see me driving without him. 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.680 Well, I just remember the sixties STP was such a 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:03.000 big and people started talking what did it mean? And 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:05.560 it was stop teenage pregnancy. 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.280 And no scientifically treated petroleum. 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:10.560 I do know that, but you know, in the pre 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.880 internet era, it took years to figure to find that out. 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.920 When I walk around with this at tow. I always 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.440 let a cool hat and I go not the Stone 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:20.319 Temple pilots. 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.080 It's like, yeah, that's what it is. How many baseball 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:25.399 style hats do you have? 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.959 Too many? You can't get the good ones anymore. The 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:33.080 problem is they went to low Crown. Look, you and 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:37.160 I we've never really gotten deep into what year are 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:38.600 you born? You born? You older than me. 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:40.959 I'm three years older. I was born in fifty three 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:41.960 year were born in fifty six? 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:46.000 Fifty six? Yes, but we're in a window. I've I 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:49.760 came I think from a point of origin that left 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:56.400 me with the uh, the cynical side of the sixties. 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:58.400 You know, I kind of came out of it because 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:00.440 I graduated high school in seventy four. You got out 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:04.360 in seventy one or seventy seventy, seventy seventy. Yeah, would 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:05.240 you graduate early? 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:08.600 I skipped a grade way back. 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:10.960 Whatever I was gonna see, I want you to show off. 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:14.320 You set that up for me pretty well. 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:18.000 You were scheduled. Yes, he's an advanced placement kid, this 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:22.080 guy so so. I, on the other hand, should have 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.640 been held back a year because my birthday's almost November 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.040 is October twenty third, and now they wouldn't have let 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.000 me go. I would have done better academically, as I 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.280 looked back at it, because I was, you know, I 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.960 used to we get in junior high. You had, you know, 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.000 no singular class that you were stuck in and you 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.240 could do whatever. And I had study hall periods and 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:47.800 I skipped him, you know where I didn't go outside 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:51.760 and you know, screw around and smoke with friends or anything, 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.399 because I never smoked. But I was in the library. 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.640 They had a library in the junior high and I 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.280 would sit there and just read the encyclopedia. And when 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.440 I thought back about it, after I did some college, 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:05.360 you got went to Ohio State. My favorite courses were 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.200 you know, lecture courses, you know, things where there was 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:12.079 a full professor dealing in rhetoric, you know. And then 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:16.560 these were because you went to a small school. Right now, 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:17.359 my high. 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:20.120 School, well everything's relative. I grew up in the suburbs. 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:22.160 High school had eighteen hundred people. 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.440 Well I had two thousand. We were in Columbus at 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.760 that point, so I was a two thousand, you know 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.440 person high school. It was a spread over of the 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:35.440 three classes. It was a sophomore, junior, senior but meaning 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:37.320 university though college you went to. 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.840 I went to a very small college in Vermont. It 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:43.760 had eighteen hundred students. And that was in the dark era, 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:47.480 pre internet, pre DVD, pre cable, like you had to 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:48.480 entertain yourself. 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.800 Well, I was at Ohio State when it was sixty 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:55.120 one thousand students on one campus. It was a small 0:03:55.200 --> 0:04:00.280 city in itself, but so I had So you had 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.160 tas you know usually you know grad students that were 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.840 you know for a freshman chorus or a sophomore course. 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.240 You pick those up. But once a week you would 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:11.720 end up in that in a grand lecture hall with 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:14.760 the full professor you know who ran you know that 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.400 it was, you know, sometimes head of a department or whatever. 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:20.920 I found myself really fascinating with that when I and 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.360 I what, we just went off and I took you 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:24.560 down a rabbit hole here that you. 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:26.960 No, no, no, that digression is a spice of life. 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.640 I got a lot of questions. Let's start at the end. 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.159 So how hard How hard was it to drop out 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.239 of college? 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.160 Not at all. I kind of did it by default. 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.280 I was just kind of just quit going to classes 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:45.560 and there was no formal kind of you know, removing 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:49.920 them myself. I just uh, I left and and and 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.400 I came. Well, I'd gone to Nashville first. And then 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:55.520 a buddy of mine, a kid that was a year 0:04:55.560 --> 0:05:01.440 younger kid, uh, a guitar player named Bill Alves who 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:05.400 was in stage band with me in high school, a 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:10.640 year behind my class, and he was in this greaser 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:12.720 band that we had had out of the theater department 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:15.520 that you know, because Shananah and all that had blown up, 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:20.640 you know, in the ensuing years after Woodstock, they kind 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.680 of you know, that whole revival, the throwback stuff of 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:28.840 the fifties. And at this this variety show that the 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:33.400 theater department had at my high school, I front of 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:35.920 this band. It became Dwight and the Greasers because they 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.520 were all gassed back with duct tails and everything. And 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:45.040 we actually opened in Columbus at the Loew's Theater the 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.520 weekend they opened American Graffiti. They had us perform. Wow 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.360 people did people well, no, but people didn't know what 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:55.920 between the showing the screenings, and it was one of 0:05:55.960 --> 0:06:00.360 those old, you know, eight hundred seat modern but that 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.279 big span of you know, not like the Cinerama dome, 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.800 but but big and we were this tiny thing down there, 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.240 jumping around between the screenings of the different you know 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.440 of graffiti and doing that. It was kind of you know, 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:18.240 it was kind of interesting and weird. But I so 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.000 Bill Alves, the guitar player who was in that, and 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.720 have been in Stage Man a couple of years after 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:26.599 I was out of high school and was at Ohio State. 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:32.280 You noticed my colloquialism there. My granny would always down 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:36.280 in southeast Kentucky where I was born, would say, are 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:40.360 you all doing well up in Ohio, Ohio? Very properly say? 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.120 And I'd say, you know, we would, those of us 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:45.800 from Columbus and south to the river. It was a 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:50.880 Hia high It's like so Ohio State. And you know, 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.200 I left, and my intention was I went back to 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:58.120 La City. Out here, I actually had better professors. I 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:03.120 had guys at La City College that were full PhD teaching. 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.320 You know, where I was picking up, you know, sophomore 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.400 year stuff. You know, I thought, well, I'll pick up 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.800 you know where I left off there and do an 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:15.760 AA and go to UCLA. I will transfer over. And 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.560 that got interrupted by what I was doing, you know, 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:20.920 finally in the clubs out here and then having a 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:24.240 moment of you know, just seeing the reality of what 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.600 I'd come to the you know, West Coast for. But 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:30.480 Billy olves went back to the finished this said to me. 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:36.280 In the winter of seventy seven, he said, Hey, you're 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:38.640 gonna go with me. I'm going to my He and 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.880 aunt and uncle lived out and here in Tustin, the 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:44.880 you know, down in Orange County. He said, I'm going 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:46.920 out there. You're going with me. He had its nineteen 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:50.120 seventy Volkswagen bug and we loaded everything I owned, which 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.240 wasn't much, but we had you know, Duffel bags on 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:58.360 the roof and drove from Columbus on I seventy. You know, 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:03.200 we took that highway away and he spent a couple 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.280 three months and went home. By July fourth, he was 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:10.640 out and U I stayed. I didn't even have a bicycle, 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:12.720 you know. I rode the bus and we ended up 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.880 in Long Beach, living on the beach, and I rode 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.400 the bus to Bullock's Lakewood. Are you've been out here 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:20.880 long enough to remember Bullocks? Right? 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.240 Oh? Yeah, absolutely, I've been out here longer than you. 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:27.760 Yeah. So it's a mid seventies, so seventy seven. I 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:29.880 got here, arrived and I ended up working there, and 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.480 I worked at moving furniture for a time and then 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:39.240 I drove air freight. But anyway, so yeah, I ended 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.360 up out here and stayed and planning. Let's go back 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:43.439 a few seconds. 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.560 You brought up the fact that you were born in 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:51.760 November in the fact that today, well, lamber hold on 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:55.160 one second, since you were one of the youngest kids 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:58.800 in the class, did that affect how people treated you 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:00.120 in your personality? 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.280 Maybe maybe, I think back, I never got bullied. I 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.680 was kind of the wallflower kid. That was what was 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.560 weird when I got to I remember at the end 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:18.079 of elementary, I was in a large old school, McGuffey Elementary, 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:22.160 Junior High combined, and so they would have a talent 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.079 show and I was up in there until fifth grade. 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.520 And this is in Columbus. Like I said, we had 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:29.480 made the move, you know, out of Appalachia at that 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:33.839 point up and for anybody that wants me to say Appalachia, 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:38.000 I ain't gonna do it. No. Somebody started chastising me 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:40.600 on either how can you being from here? And I'd 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.640 say Apple, I'd say, yeah, I've never heard it called Appalachia, 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.640 except if you're in Florida, you know Apple, Apa Cola 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.200 or whatever the swamps and the lakes are anyway, and 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:56.800 Stuart Copelan would have said Appalachian Spring. Right. So in 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:58.880 any event, this is a great book. By the way, 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:02.400 have you read the United States Appalachian I haven't. 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.360 But if we're going to digress, I remember my roommate 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:10.040 first year in college, his girlfriend went to Appalachian State, 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:12.240 which was in western Pennsylvania. 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:16.200 The other one is in North Carolina, Appalachian State, right, Oh, 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.319 that's what I meant. Yeah, North Carolina, boone, North Carolina. 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.880 I'm confusing two parts of my life, but you're right. 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:23.560 I had friends went to Appalachian State. 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:27.040 Who I do that myself on more than one occasion. 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:27.640 I confuse. 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:30.599 But also there's an ally I kind of ed what 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.000 I would say to so many times. It's like a 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:35.640 tongue twister. Appalachia Cola in Florida too. 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:39.920 That's what yeah, which to me, that's where I heard Appalachia, 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:43.959 and it's Appalachia where I was, and I was born 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:51.920 there anyway, So I mean, so whatever I ended up, Uh, well, 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:54.640 you started to say something, how was affected by that. 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.840 I didn't think about it at the time, because you know, 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:01.560 I was gonna be five years old and he told, 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:06.240 you know, nineteen whatever. That was sixty one. I guess. 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:11.880 I went to kindergarten and I was the oldest kid 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:15.000 in my family. They didn't have an older sibling, which 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:20.800 had a lot to do with how I embraced music 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.360 or didn't. In other words, the Beatles were a little 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:28.360 beyond me. And I said to Mike ness With one time, 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.760 you know, I was a huge Monkeys fan, and I 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:34.000 probably got one of the best educations I could have 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.120 ever had with those first two Monkeys albums. Now that 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:39.440 I know what went on with that, right, that's the 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:43.719 Wrecking Crew. I'm listening to Carol King, Neil Diamond, the writers, right, 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.920 John Stewart people and Boyce and Hart, you know, do 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.280 backwards inversions of Paperback Writer when they do you know, 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.600 last prand to Clarksville's opening. And I was down in 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:58.480 the basement with a half baked drum kit because I 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.320 had a real snare drumm and then we had one 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.640 of those sort of not real the rest of the kit. 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:08.000 My parents couldn't afford, you know, to do that. But 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:12.319 I had that, and my mother ranted. She was at 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:15.120 that point working at a place called Columbus Autoparts, a 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:17.640 factory that supplied stuff out of Detroit. Used to Joe 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.640 and say that our family didn't make it to Detroit. 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.640 We only got gas enough to get to Columbus, and 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:26.440 had to make her stand there was actually that there 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:28.800 were a family that was there, you know, on her side, 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.760 out of Kentucky, that had moved up ahead. And you know, 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.840 I don't know if you've read Hibiliology. I'm sure you have, 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:41.199 and yeah, I have the book and I told Ron Howard. 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.520 I did the reading with him, and he had asked 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.520 me about doing a role, and I couldn't schedule wise 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:51.560 do it. But the thing that I was remiss about 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:53.240 was that they weren't doing it as a series. I 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.880 thought as a series he would give the breath and 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:57.800 width of that life and what he was, you know, 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.400 the story he was telling that as opposed to a film, 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.959 which we got four hours. Right, we can get into. 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:05.520 This with we go as long as you want. 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:10.880 Digress No, but your streaming observations are the greatest, because 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:15.720 it's maddening to me that we have to wait like 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:20.280 it's nineteen sixty six for the next episode or something. 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.000 I want to strangle the TV when I look up 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.800 on and Amazon used to not do it right going backwards. 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:31.559 Now they're doing it. It's like what in the anyway? 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:35.840 So I'm an oldest kid of three, so I'm kind 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.360 of on my where were you in family line? Were 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:40.000 you give an older son? No? 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.080 But since you're the oldest kids to three, how old 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:44.360 are the other? 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:48.600 Next? It's three little Indians. It's like two years separate 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.360 my brother and then three to my sister. You know, 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.760 it's a three total, right, there's still that hierarchy because 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.600 of school. I'm two grades ahead of him and three 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.520 grades ahead of her, you know, but. 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.560 Usually the oldest, my younger sister's really into birth order. 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.160 I'm the middle. Usually all the hopes and dreams in 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:06.560 the family are in the oldest. 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.559 Yeah. No, it's a lot of weight. It's like, even 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:14.800 if it's only two, they make that and uh, you're 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.600 the middle. You went outside the home to seek attention. 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:24.200 That's I'm still seeking attention. Well, there was there was, Well, 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.320 there was a great book I think my sophomore year 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:32.200 of college at Ohio State that that Uh, it was 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.480 called firstborn second born. I've never been able to find 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.720 it since I've looked on Amazon. Every firstborn second born 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.920 sibling birth order traits and it broke down, you know, 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.560 and in large families, it goes in subgroups. You know. 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.440 They used the Kennedy family as an example of there's 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.280 a second oldest, there's a My mom came from six 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.760 my wife Emily, who actually shot photos of us and 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:56.920 videoed us that night that we had you do the 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:03.520 Beatles song with us. We She is the oldest daughter 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.360 of twelve kids, so that's a whole another dynamic because 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:11.840 she becomes the mother. Hint right, the last three could Yeah, yeah, 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:15.120 they were. Well, there was an eleveniese Catholic family that 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.560 on the one side, she Danish Irish on the other 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:25.440 and uh but anyway, so yeah, I remember one time 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:29.280 I went to camp and the councilors my brother hadn't 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.640 been there the previous year I had gone. I was old, 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.760 you know, going to a summer you know, uh, a 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.400 youth camp, church, youth camp. So I went down there 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:39.520 and this is I think back, because at the time, 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.840 it's just the kind you know, it's your life. You 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.040 don't know any different right, you don't know, there's no 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:51.480 counterpoint to it. And uh, I went down there. It's 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.520 in southern Ohio. It was an old it was an old. Uh. 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.280 I think may had predated World War One, but it 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.360 was an old. It was called Fort Hill in southeastern 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:08.040 Ohio between Cincinnati and Portsmouth along you know, and you know, 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:12.600 kind of north of the Ohio River. Beautiful down there 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.920 in the hills. And they had these huge cabins that 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.200 all the you know, the boys would stay in and 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:19.760 the girls were on the other side of the camp, 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.480 on the other And I had a ball the first 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.480 year I was there. The next year that I went, 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.080 my brother was of age that he could go, so 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:36.240 he came with right the middle right, and they called 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:40.440 my parents after about the third day and said, look, uh, 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:43.480 they says there's something wrong because my brother had some 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:45.720 issues when he was young. He had had some convulsions 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:47.680 and he had some I don't know what meds. He 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.120 probably on riddle and I don't know now what, you 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.040 know what the fifties, sixties, you know, were giving kids whatever. 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.560 He was. He was an ad D kid, you know, 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:01.240 became actually later classically flew jets. You know, he was 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.520 a charter jet pilot and you know, really smart guy, 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:10.359 brilliant kid. He but but he had his struggles, you know, 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:14.800 and he and he wasn't taking his medicine. He had 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:16.719 something he had to take. I can't remember what it was, 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.560 and it made me sick at my stuff. I could. 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.840 They called my parents, They said, something wrong? Is something 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.199 wrong wrong? And I said, no, no, it's it's the 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.919 other it's your son, twit. You got to let him 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:33.639 off the hook. He's miserable, he won't he's worried to death. 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.679 The other kid running around having a ball, you know, 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.040 and he's probably not taken whatever he's supposed to take. 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.880 But so that's what was you know, that's what you're 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.800 living with when you said that, the hero kid. And 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:48.680 I read also that the firstborns will either stay very 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:52.399 close to the family or they leave and never come back. 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.320 And I fell in the latter category. Finally, I kind 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:58.959 of left came to the West Coast. Now. I had 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.760 a great relationship with my parents that till to my 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.320 dad's death. My mother is still alive, thank goodness. She's 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:09.159 eighty nine o ninety coming up and in this next spring. 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:14.679 But she and I had as again perspective from me 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.119 over the years and growing to know other people. And 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.640 I was I was reading, you know, because I get 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:26.520 your your your your online letter and the what is 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:31.200 it the Guest? The new book you're reading sounds great, 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.879 sounds fantastic, actually, because I'm a fan of, like, you know, 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:38.320 Pete Dexter and the writings you ever read Spooner by 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.520 Pete he wrote Paris Trout and Deadwood. He wrote the 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:42.760 book in the early nineties. 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:44.560 I have not read it. 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.600 Yeah, Deadwood is great. It's one of the most brilliant 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:52.879 Western descriptions of the Old West that I've ever come across. 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.280 They attempted it twice. The first one was Walter Hill 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:00.080 in the nineties with with Jeff Bridges, and they as 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:01.719 soon as I heard the title, I think, okay, they 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.720 missed the mark. They called it wild Bill and that's 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.120 one foot in old school. And then the early two 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:11.080 thousands they actually did the series. HBO did dead Wood 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:13.639 and now they got close, but it's still not the 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:17.520 same visceral kind of element that Pete Dexter captured in that. 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:26.320 And so my parents were because you're talking about the Guests, 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.840 and it was really interesting what you were saying about 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.760 that kind of personality and especially if you don't grow 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.400 up within that, you know, and I had. They were 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:43.680 lacking my parents, but they were never for a moment ever, 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.160 ever malicious to any one of the three of us. 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:51.119 And we knew every day they loved us. And I 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:54.639 think back about the lacking of whatever, you know, and 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.040 maybe not being held back a year, you know, and 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:00.399 I probably would have done, you know, I would have 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.040 been grown a little more. You know. What. What's the 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.439 is it in Outliers where he talks about or is 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:11.159 it uh uh? The other one that he wrote before. 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:14.560 Well, Outliers is what he talks about with the best soccer. 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.520 Players, after the hockey players, the hockey players, right, yeah, 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.359 the hockey that's Outliers, because Tipping Point was the earlier 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:22.000 one that was about writ you know, yeah, you know, 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:25.800 but which deals with the hushpuppy issue. Right remember the 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:30.640 kids in South like in Lower East Side, the hipsters 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.960 couldn't afford cool shoes, des are buying hushpuppies and blue 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:34.800 hush puppies up. 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:38.200 But him talking about the Gladwell books in case people don't. 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:42.560 Yeah, Malcolm Gladwell, you know, brilliantly written stuff, and he 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.720 uh uh, I just forgot my point. What was it? 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:50.440 What was I referencing? I'm gladwell and outlined. 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.440 He was talking in Blink, which was the second book, 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:55.720 that if you were born all the great hockey players 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:57.880 right born in the first half of the year. 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:00.960 We take them because they're bigger, you know, at that 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:04.199 age you're physically bigger. So I was there and I 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:07.119 was just, you know, slight, skinny kid. I wasn't I 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:10.560 wasn't small, but I wasn't you know, like a guy 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:12.600 going to be six ' four, you know. I ended 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.119 up being roughly right six feet tall. But it was 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.679 like so with that age in answer to the question, 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.600 not succinctly answering it, but with all the tangents I 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:28.000 can muster. It was at the time I thought, Okay, 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:30.640 this is what I'm supposed to do. You know, at 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:33.439 four years and three quarters, I went into you know, 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:36.440 the school and was always the youngest kid in the class, 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:39.480 you or one of the youngest. There were probably kids 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.000 born in November and December actually when I think back 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:46.560 to that time, but not many. And it was later 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.080 like in fifth grade there was this talent show that 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:55.520 was I mentioned that, and uh, I was a hey 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.160 crossing guard, a safety patrol kid, you know, like. 0:21:58.400 --> 0:21:59.960 Oh yeah, that was a great honor. 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:02.760 Oh no, they let you do it right, and that 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:05.440 was trying. I remember after that afternoon, because they held 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:07.399 it in the afternoon, I went down and played a monkey. 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:10.800 I played I'm not your stepping style, and my class 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:12.919 voted me to go down to the to the to 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:18.800 the variety show centre in the big auditorium combined on 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:22.360 toury in the junior high and elementary and do it. 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:24.320 And I remember the older kids, you know, kids that 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:27.400 were you know, fourteen, coming across the crosswalk and look 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:32.840 at me, kid, that wasn't bad in my little flag. 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:36.479 So that was the first handhold right of actually thinking. 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:39.879 It's funny you mention this because I always had a 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:44.159 history since I was a year younger than everybody. I 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:46.679 would get along with the older people when I was 0:22:46.720 --> 0:22:50.760 in college whatever. It's sort of a similar thing. But well, 0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:53.800 let's go through a few other things. Okay, you said 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:56.760 you can't get a good hat anymore. What's a good hat? 0:22:56.800 --> 0:22:57.560 And what can you get? 0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:01.440 Well, a high crown, this hot the old classic seventies 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:03.639 look you and I know the truck stop hat was 0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:07.040 twenty feet tall, right, the ball cap running rolled and 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:11.439 you don't bend, you roll the brim if you if 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:15.320 you're a real hot rod Gaylord Perry Pitcher, you roll 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:17.960 that brim. And the same thing with you know guys 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:21.199 the old Air Force caps, they had a different kind 0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:22.959 of crown on there. If the Marine Corps had the 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:28.920 that you know, high peaked anyway, crazy, I'm into observing. Oh, 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:29.720 I know. 0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:32.119 Exactly what you're talking about with the crown, because that 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:33.920 was a big thing in Little League. I mean, you wouldn't, 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:36.520 like Babe Ruth the old schools how it is now 0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:38.280 if they're even smaller now where it goes straight to 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:38.800 the head. 0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:41.840 But what bothers me, which is horrible, it's not it's 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:44.760 not aesthetically very flattering. No. 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:46.840 But the other thing is in the old days they 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:50.320 were not adjustable. You got your own size and they 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:51.720 really fit well. 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:53.560 You had to fight. Yeah, you had to know your 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:55.719 hats and get the size because it was wool all 0:23:55.720 --> 0:23:59.040 the way around. The pro teams are still that, I 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:03.280 mean you still buy them sized. But the adjustable this 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:05.520 is dnhim. The one I got on it was a 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:09.040 great store on Melrose that had stocks of these blank 0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:13.800 denim Classic trucker caps. They come and go every few years. 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:16.680 Even still, I've tried with my merch people. I said, 0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:20.040 you know, I really want to get the Classic. I 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:21.760 don't know how many answers I And we measured at 0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:24.199 one point with the height of the crown should be, 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:27.080 you know, for the label to be sticked to whatever 0:24:27.200 --> 0:24:29.439 you know, patch you're putting on the front. Another when 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:31.760 I've got to Union seventy six, big old Union seventy 0:24:31.800 --> 0:24:35.440 six badges, the last gas station job I had right 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:38.400 after i'd quit going to you know, college in Ohio state, 0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:41.880 and right before in the months ensuing before I left 0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:46.080 and came to California. But I was Union seventy six. 0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:49.160 My dad owned a Texico for a time, so we'd 0:24:50.640 --> 0:24:52.880 as a kid, you know, growing up with with that. 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:01.919 Okay, but I'm gonna switch to another thing before we 0:25:01.960 --> 0:25:05.040 go forward. One of the other things you said earlier 0:25:05.600 --> 0:25:11.600 was being cynical, as they say in class. Amplify that well. 0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:15.679 I remember, I had a great I had what I 0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:18.360 was I mentioned I touched on a second ago. When 0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:21.560 I went to La City College, I was fascinated because 0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:26.679 I had this professor O'Mara was his name, and I 0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:30.919 realized halfway through it was a Western CIVI class that 0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:34.560 the book on Egyptology we were using he had authored 0:25:34.640 --> 0:25:38.119 at the University of Chicago. I thought, whoa this guy? 0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:41.679 Because he could teach at La City, I think it 0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:44.320 was five years and they could pick up another state 0:25:44.359 --> 0:25:47.400 of California. At the time, this is in the early eighties, 0:25:47.840 --> 0:25:50.879 they could pick up a full retirement, a second full retirement, 0:25:51.400 --> 0:25:53.480 and so I had that. And I had a professor 0:25:54.080 --> 0:26:00.000 from USC, an English lit professor or creative writing professor 0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:04.480 who had been a publisher and again was retired out 0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:09.359 of USC as a full PhD and was picking up 0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:12.680 a second retirement, right, And so the you know, at 0:26:12.680 --> 0:26:15.639 close range, you know, with twenty kids in the class, 0:26:16.400 --> 0:26:19.560 and they said to me. The one said, well, you know, 0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:22.200 this philosophy professor I had it was also a full 0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:27.160 professor from USC that was doing double duty. He said, 0:26:27.240 --> 0:26:30.880 you know, the difference in a skeptic and a cynic 0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:34.200 is that the cynic has been a true believer that's 0:26:34.240 --> 0:26:39.639 become disillusioned. Right. I always held that I understood as 0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:44.760 soon as I said, yeah, that's one of the Yeah, 0:26:45.080 --> 0:26:50.000 you know, and so when I said cynical, I was 0:26:50.160 --> 0:26:55.800 watching the older part of that generation of boomers, you 0:26:55.920 --> 0:26:59.919 still probably believed. See I'm the kids sitting there watching 0:27:00.359 --> 0:27:03.440 you and the older parts of the boomers. Right, I'm 0:27:03.520 --> 0:27:08.000 the tail in the last years of the boomers, watching 0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:12.520 it go to shit, right, watching the Summer of Love 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:14.639 become ultamont. 0:27:16.200 --> 0:27:21.000 You know, you know, I understand your point. It's well taken, 0:27:21.560 --> 0:27:23.520 and there are certainly people older than me. The line 0:27:23.520 --> 0:27:25.960 of demarcation that's so important to me was I was 0:27:26.000 --> 0:27:29.480 fully conscious when the Beatles hit. But I always I 0:27:29.560 --> 0:27:33.960 always use the analogy. I have a beach analogy, okay, 0:27:34.280 --> 0:27:38.760 where the wave comes in, the wave goes out, and 0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:41.640 there are certain people from that era who are still 0:27:41.680 --> 0:27:44.359 on the beach. They don't go back out. So you know, 0:27:44.440 --> 0:27:48.400 in the fifties wave came in, we got Mayner, g Krebs, 0:27:48.400 --> 0:27:51.520 et cetera, et cetera, wave went out, people like Alan 0:27:51.600 --> 0:27:54.359 Ginsburg whatever, they were left on the beach. For those 0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:58.959 of us who lived had the sixties values, okay, and 0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:04.000 then Reagan legitimized greed. It's like our values don't square 0:28:04.080 --> 0:28:06.959 with everybody else. It's like the same thing. You know, 0:28:07.119 --> 0:28:10.120 even in music, you know, the first thing people want 0:28:10.160 --> 0:28:12.360 to know is how do they get paid and how 0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:14.359 do they extend it. Not that the people in the 0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:17.639 old ages weren't interested in getting paid, it just wasn't 0:28:17.680 --> 0:28:21.680 the first question. So I believe, you know, it's hard 0:28:21.760 --> 0:28:23.680 for me. This is going to be controversial. 0:28:24.600 --> 0:28:24.840 You know. 0:28:25.000 --> 0:28:29.359 Even in the Joni Mitchell album Blue California, she says 0:28:29.359 --> 0:28:33.119 she's going to kiss a sunset pig. Okay, pig is 0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:37.280 a cop. Subsequent to nine to eleven, the firemen and 0:28:37.280 --> 0:28:41.600 when the policemen they're venerated, whereas in the sixties you 0:28:41.720 --> 0:28:44.560 have to beware. And it's funny because a cop has 0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:46.520 never done anything good for me. Cop has done a 0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:49.160 lot of bad shit for me, but never anything good. 0:28:50.440 --> 0:28:54.920 Really, that's fascinating. I mean, and I I've had Look, 0:28:56.480 --> 0:29:00.440 I've had experiences with cops that are not great. But 0:29:01.480 --> 0:29:05.320 I didn't What I was going to say was I 0:29:05.320 --> 0:29:12.960 I felt like, I guess the disillusionment by the early seventies, 0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:15.800 right when Vietnam finally. 0:29:15.480 --> 0:29:18.480 But I have to tell you we all felt that. 0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:20.920 Yeah, well that's what I understand. 0:29:20.600 --> 0:29:22.800 The concept of being ripped off because they talked about 0:29:22.800 --> 0:29:24.320 that a lot with Generation X. 0:29:24.560 --> 0:29:25.520 You got to do it. 0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:28.120 And we're in the trails and we're picking up the 0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:29.760 the ship from the elephant. 0:29:29.360 --> 0:29:31.880 In the circus, and it was one of the It was. 0:29:32.160 --> 0:29:36.600 Very very strange to have Ken state in May and 0:29:36.640 --> 0:29:40.040 then everything switched. It was back to the land and 0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:42.440 all the protests they ended after that. 0:29:42.520 --> 0:29:48.920 It was very weird. Well, Kent States were seventy yeah, 0:29:49.440 --> 0:29:53.840 so but by I remember I was sitting in I 0:29:53.920 --> 0:29:56.640 was a junior year because I had to go down 0:29:56.640 --> 0:29:58.160 and I had to go down and take the physical 0:29:58.200 --> 0:30:00.000 for the draft or anything. Even though they had stopped 0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:02.680 right the active draft by the time I, you know, 0:30:02.720 --> 0:30:07.440 got out when I turned eighteen, uh in late seventy four, 0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:10.280 I still had to get on that bus and drive 0:30:10.400 --> 0:30:14.080 down there, you know, ride a bus full of dudes 0:30:14.680 --> 0:30:18.040 down with an army sergeant hollering at you and getting 0:30:18.080 --> 0:30:20.160 the line. That's why I got up there and went 0:30:20.760 --> 0:30:25.280 now neck one yello him and he's calling out and 0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:27.040 I'm standing in my own word and he's measuring my 0:30:27.040 --> 0:30:29.400 Hair's a five ft eleven and three quarter inches. I said, 0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:31.120 you can't just give me to the other quarter inch 0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:32.080 get on. 0:30:34.120 --> 0:30:36.840 Well. The great thing is you remember the movie stripes 0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:40.920 with barn Oates is Sergeant Holka. And what I loved 0:30:40.960 --> 0:30:43.239 about was, you know, they're sitting there and gon't think 0:30:43.240 --> 0:30:47.160 he's taking a little too seriously and that irreverence really 0:30:47.240 --> 0:30:48.880 is the sixties, That's what I love. 0:30:49.440 --> 0:30:54.040 Yeah. And by the seventies, I mean they were letting guys. 0:30:54.080 --> 0:30:57.560 It was, it was. There was cynicism even in the military. 0:30:57.600 --> 0:31:01.160 You know, it was like, what with the hell was 0:31:01.160 --> 0:31:03.600 that ten years? And why you know what I mean 0:31:03.680 --> 0:31:05.600 if you talk to guys and I know you have 0:31:06.240 --> 0:31:10.520 that that came out of it, They're like, what a waste, 0:31:11.000 --> 0:31:13.200 you know? And how many young lives, how many young 0:31:13.280 --> 0:31:17.160 I used to look in Columbus there was a little newspaper, 0:31:17.200 --> 0:31:20.080 a local thing called the Londen News. At the height 0:31:20.120 --> 0:31:23.240 of that warrant. I remember the pictures of those kids, 0:31:23.280 --> 0:31:27.040 some of them with acne, acne still their photo from 0:31:27.040 --> 0:31:30.200 boot camp, right with their dressed uniform, and it would 0:31:30.280 --> 0:31:33.880 run and they weren't coming back. They would run them 0:31:33.880 --> 0:31:39.160 every week, the kids that were gone. And I really 0:31:39.200 --> 0:31:44.080 sad when I think back at those faces, those young kids. 0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:47.320 You know, I remember being in high school remember being 0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:49.680 in high school and over the intercom for the first 0:31:49.720 --> 0:31:53.520 time they announced all the school that a student, you know, 0:31:53.560 --> 0:31:55.600 a previous student had died in Vietnam. 0:31:55.760 --> 0:32:02.800 Yeah. Yeah, very sobering, and it's a an experience that, 0:32:04.000 --> 0:32:07.000 like you've said, watched you write, I mean, we're very 0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:10.120 nine on one to now is not the same because 0:32:10.120 --> 0:32:12.400 it's still an all volunteer force. It's not. 0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:17.160 There's okay, but growing up forgetting that Vietnam, you know, 0:32:17.960 --> 0:32:20.760 bad war, et cetera, et cetera. But you're growing up 0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:25.000 and you say, shit, I can't see ever fighting for 0:32:25.160 --> 0:32:33.120 my country, And now I can see fighting against people 0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:35.520 who want to end democracy, of which there's a good 0:32:35.600 --> 0:32:37.440 number in America. I hear from them every day. 0:32:38.440 --> 0:32:41.960 Yeah. Well, I mean there's an argument to me, mate. 0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:46.560 I was a few years ago Pire's Morgan's show on CNN. 0:32:47.640 --> 0:32:50.600 I did a thing about and he wanted to interview 0:32:50.640 --> 0:32:53.000 me and talk about the Second Amendment, and I said, look, 0:32:53.400 --> 0:32:59.200 it's not about hunting, it's not about you know, sporting rifle. 0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:02.400 There's a reason I believe that it was written in 0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:04.480 there that way, and it was to prevent tyranny, and 0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:07.520 it was to rise up against the tyranny of a government, 0:33:07.600 --> 0:33:11.120 the tyranny of someone taking over the government, you know, 0:33:11.440 --> 0:33:16.760 the military, you know, performing a coup whatever. So I 0:33:16.760 --> 0:33:23.640 didn't I was I guess I was hopeful, and hopefully 0:33:23.680 --> 0:33:27.000 I was more of a skeptic than a cynic, because 0:33:27.000 --> 0:33:29.400 a cynic it's hard to it's hard to go on, 0:33:29.760 --> 0:33:32.360 you know, cynicism, it's hard to kind of overcome it. 0:33:33.440 --> 0:33:37.960 But I remained skeptical and remain skeptical. You know of 0:33:40.280 --> 0:33:43.880 a lot of people power, right power, and those who 0:33:43.920 --> 0:33:46.720 get it and the wrong people getting it and who knows, 0:33:46.800 --> 0:33:48.000 you know, it's a coin toss. 0:33:48.040 --> 0:33:50.360 Well, it's skeptical. You do you talk about that my father, 0:33:51.200 --> 0:33:53.959 you know, you'd hear the old what's the real story here? 0:33:54.000 --> 0:33:56.160 It's like when you see somebody driving down the street 0:33:56.200 --> 0:34:00.640 in the Bentley and they don't have a job, Well 0:34:00.720 --> 0:34:03.600 they either have a rich father or something. Especially in 0:34:03.760 --> 0:34:06.200 LA when somebody you can't accept it if face value, 0:34:06.200 --> 0:34:08.400 when it's incredibly go oh wait a second. There's a 0:34:08.440 --> 0:34:10.959 real story here. Part of being a skeptic, and. 0:34:10.880 --> 0:34:17.080 A lot of them are leased in lamed. 0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:16.800 As I say there, there are a lot of people 0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:20.200 live in that way. But there's all kinds of things. 0:34:20.239 --> 0:34:23.600 It's like, you know, HBO Max has now been turned 0:34:23.600 --> 0:34:26.880 into max Max and that makes no sense to me. 0:34:27.680 --> 0:34:31.720 And then I can't remember who owns it, but. 0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:34.520 Well, you know, it's more of discovery and it's run 0:34:34.560 --> 0:34:36.799 by this guy Zoslav. And I was listening to this guy, 0:34:36.880 --> 0:34:41.160 Scot Galloway, big business guy says, no brand person, no 0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:44.480 branding person in the world would say to change it. 0:34:45.480 --> 0:34:50.440 This guybo Yeah, that's a guy brand This guy changed 0:34:50.480 --> 0:34:54.240 it because if he wins, he wants all the credits credit. 0:34:54.560 --> 0:34:57.080 And then I was listening to this podcast with his 0:34:57.200 --> 0:35:00.360 economist from Columbia talking about what he said to the 0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:03.759 White House, et cetera. They won't listen. It's a dick thing. 0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:06.959 It's like I guess I was brought up my parents 0:35:07.000 --> 0:35:10.000 always telling me, you're not the guy. There's always somebody 0:35:10.000 --> 0:35:13.479 who knows better, who knows more. Find them, but you're 0:35:13.520 --> 0:35:14.120 not the guy. 0:35:14.960 --> 0:35:17.239 And then you don't don't think you're the smartest guy 0:35:17.239 --> 0:35:21.520 in the room. I don't. Yeah, I go in, I think, look, 0:35:21.560 --> 0:35:24.799 i'm I'm I'm pretty good. I'm quick. I'm quick. I'm 0:35:24.840 --> 0:35:30.279 not fast, but i'm pretty quick. And uh that I 0:35:30.320 --> 0:35:34.480 want to have smarter people than me, you know, informing me. 0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:38.400 That's what I hope always, and somebody smartest me. 0:35:39.120 --> 0:35:41.920 You know, as one gets older and time starts to 0:35:42.000 --> 0:35:46.320 run out of the hour glass, it's very weird because Okay, 0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:49.239 when you go back when you're still in school, there's 0:35:49.280 --> 0:35:52.520 a big organization. They're into what you're doing. Are you 0:35:52.640 --> 0:35:56.280 cutting class, you're getting good grades, whatever. Then you graduate, 0:35:56.400 --> 0:35:59.879 they don't give a fuck. Do whatever you want, you know, living, 0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:03.799 gutter whatever. And it's funny that there's that side. So 0:36:04.160 --> 0:36:08.080 you're ultimately forced to find your own way with no structure. 0:36:08.880 --> 0:36:17.080 And it's weird because you have you outgrow people, primarily 0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:20.160 because not that they're stupid, but the choices they made. 0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:23.560 They don't want to continue to go down the path. 0:36:24.160 --> 0:36:26.279 And it's very weird because then you're hanging with them. 0:36:26.320 --> 0:36:28.000 It's not as satisfying as it used to be, and 0:36:28.040 --> 0:36:29.160 you have to find new people. 0:36:30.480 --> 0:36:32.799 Yeah. Well, I've over the year has been asked well 0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:34.480 how do I how do I do this? Or that? 0:36:34.600 --> 0:36:39.520 You know musicians that are talented maybe, and they go, well, yeah, 0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:42.319 I said, well, first of all, you got to get 0:36:42.360 --> 0:36:44.759 out of where you are. You know, it's like you're 0:36:44.760 --> 0:36:49.240 in You're you're in Indianapolis, or you're in Des Moines, 0:36:49.239 --> 0:36:54.319 you're in Omaha. Okay, cool, But you got to go 0:36:54.360 --> 0:36:57.400 to New York, go to La or at least Nashville 0:36:57.760 --> 0:37:00.080 so you can compete, you know, and put it in 0:37:00.080 --> 0:37:05.800 front of people, right, and and it surprises me, especially 0:37:05.800 --> 0:37:08.280 as a point of age. You know, you've you've written 0:37:08.280 --> 0:37:12.360 about this. I've read where you where there are those 0:37:12.440 --> 0:37:15.960 that do and those that don't and those that don't. 0:37:16.040 --> 0:37:18.719 You could tell over and over again. Are you when 0:37:18.719 --> 0:37:22.480 you're beach analogy? Are you saying you're one of those 0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:27.759 one of those persons left on the beach you feel beat? Right? Yeah? 0:37:27.800 --> 0:37:29.840 And you didn't go back out with the current or 0:37:29.880 --> 0:37:33.080 the wave, right, yeah, I probably went out with the wave. 0:37:33.680 --> 0:37:36.640 And maybe that's what you know it's like because I 0:37:36.719 --> 0:37:38.480 understand the analogy, I get it. 0:37:39.000 --> 0:37:42.759 Okay, Okay, let's just say you bring up you know, 0:37:42.840 --> 0:37:45.120 you go on tour. A lot of places you tour 0:37:45.520 --> 0:37:48.719 are not the top line of the metropolis. All right, 0:37:49.120 --> 0:37:52.320 if you are just by being there the brief period 0:37:52.320 --> 0:37:55.319 of time, is it just another gig or do you 0:37:55.480 --> 0:37:56.280 learn something? 0:37:56.560 --> 0:38:01.080 You learned something insight, you learn something every night. Everywhere 0:38:01.160 --> 0:38:04.759 you go, I think, I mean, I'm just curious enough 0:38:04.800 --> 0:38:09.200 that I look for what there is. I'm fascinated with 0:38:09.280 --> 0:38:13.000 people in places. The thing I never had to study, 0:38:13.000 --> 0:38:15.040 and I probably would have made it bout I was 0:38:15.040 --> 0:38:17.440 going to major in philosophy, but as I look back 0:38:17.840 --> 0:38:22.759 in history, history and geography, I never had to open 0:38:22.800 --> 0:38:25.200 a book. It seemed like it just was in me 0:38:25.400 --> 0:38:30.040 from some previous lifetime. I knew the globe, and that 0:38:30.160 --> 0:38:31.800 was what I was saying when I would cut class, 0:38:31.960 --> 0:38:34.880 I would, you know, actually cut classes. I could get 0:38:34.920 --> 0:38:38.120 away with it and sit in the library and read. 0:38:38.560 --> 0:38:43.480 Because my dad, God bless him, he tried to. I 0:38:43.640 --> 0:38:49.080 was raised very devoutly in Church of Christ, which they 0:38:49.200 --> 0:38:53.840 founded Pepperdine University out here. But the Church of Christ 0:38:54.080 --> 0:39:02.440 is a non denominational, you know, Christian church, and in Columbus, 0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:05.960 the fascinating thing for me, again in retrospect, was that 0:39:07.160 --> 0:39:10.640 it was this major university hub, right, so we had 0:39:10.640 --> 0:39:13.640 this influx of guys that were teaching my Sunday school 0:39:13.640 --> 0:39:16.480 classes that were doing I know it now because I 0:39:16.520 --> 0:39:22.439 remember doing their PhDs, one of them in high level 0:39:22.480 --> 0:39:28.440 mathematics at Ohio State. Another one we had a friend 0:39:28.480 --> 0:39:30.680 of our family, became very close to my dad because 0:39:30.680 --> 0:39:33.680 they both shared a love for cars, and he loved 0:39:33.840 --> 0:39:38.040 he had a little old Porsche Sea the C model 0:39:38.040 --> 0:39:41.000 looked like the bathtub, you know, because he was finishing 0:39:41.040 --> 0:39:45.319 his residency there in antestesiology. So I got exposed, you know, 0:39:45.400 --> 0:39:49.640 this cross polarization of culture. My dad was a ten 0:39:49.719 --> 0:39:51.960 year career Army sergeant. All I came, I was going 0:39:52.040 --> 0:39:55.279 to stay do the twenty you know, and because of me, 0:39:55.360 --> 0:40:00.320 he used to look at you, you know, boy, he 0:40:00.840 --> 0:40:05.160 lamented it until the end of his life. Almost I 0:40:05.400 --> 0:40:08.399 have been I'd have been retard. But now if I'd 0:40:08.400 --> 0:40:11.880 have stayed in but you don't because he couldn't. He 0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:15.920 was last posted in Korea posts the truth and people 0:40:15.920 --> 0:40:20.880 don't realize the Korean War, remember Korean conflict, John Prime, 0:40:21.640 --> 0:40:23.640 Hello in There is one of the great songs that 0:40:24.880 --> 0:40:28.040 deals with that. And you know the couple the old 0:40:28.080 --> 0:40:31.360 man on the bench and Hello in there and the 0:40:31.480 --> 0:40:33.799 Korean War. We don't know what for? You know, that 0:40:33.960 --> 0:40:38.240 lyric was so poignant and great. Anyway, it was post 0:40:38.320 --> 0:40:41.319 the war, the active war, and it's still to this day. 0:40:41.360 --> 0:40:43.440 I guess just a truce, you know, that's why it's 0:40:43.480 --> 0:40:44.040 such a you. 0:40:44.080 --> 0:40:46.360 Know, well I read just to you know, put this 0:40:46.480 --> 0:40:48.239 in and you hear about how is it going to 0:40:48.400 --> 0:40:52.040 end between Ukraine and Russia and they say it might 0:40:52.080 --> 0:40:55.120 be like Korea and that there was never a treaty. 0:40:55.200 --> 0:40:55.640 Is the truth. 0:40:55.640 --> 0:40:58.080 They just kind of decided to stop fighting. 0:40:57.760 --> 0:41:00.400 Stop and just became a truth. That that's what had 0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:04.000 DMZ is real. It's like right, it's like they're looking 0:41:04.040 --> 0:41:07.120 at each other still with loaded guns. So anyway, he 0:41:07.239 --> 0:41:10.880 was there and couldn't take us. He left. My mom 0:41:11.040 --> 0:41:14.600 was just pregnant with me, and he spent the time 0:41:14.880 --> 0:41:17.439 and he didn't meet me till I was nine months old, 0:41:18.080 --> 0:41:20.960 and that it was an interesting dynamic between the two. 0:41:21.160 --> 0:41:24.120 But he looked he said, you know, i'd have been retard. 0:41:24.280 --> 0:41:27.800 But I said, you'd have been in Vietnam. He said, well, 0:41:28.640 --> 0:41:31.600 you know maybe, but he ran a motor pool and 0:41:31.640 --> 0:41:35.719 he ran tank transporters, which you know, but those old 0:41:35.800 --> 0:41:38.439 sergeants did end up over there. And then I said, 0:41:38.480 --> 0:41:41.520 you know, the first thing I ever wrote, funny enough 0:41:42.880 --> 0:41:44.960 because I was watching all the news reel footage. I 0:41:45.040 --> 0:41:49.080 was eight years old and I had my first real guitar. Well, 0:41:49.120 --> 0:41:50.920 he had one he brought home. There's a shot of 0:41:51.000 --> 0:41:53.879 me in my box. Said that it's a k F hole, 0:41:54.080 --> 0:41:57.640 remember the old F hole guitars a k that he 0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:00.279 he couldn't play. He brought more instruments on the never 0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:03.359 could play a lick. He brought one from Westinghouse when 0:42:03.360 --> 0:42:06.240 he worked out there after he lost his gas station. 0:42:07.120 --> 0:42:09.719 That's another whole topic that they give these guys gas 0:42:09.719 --> 0:42:13.520 stations or great mechanics that have no business acumen whatsoever. 0:42:13.800 --> 0:42:16.480 And the oil companies know that, by the way, I've 0:42:16.520 --> 0:42:19.920 read analysis of that. They knew because they owned the 0:42:19.960 --> 0:42:22.759 real estate. So they would just flip every three or 0:42:22.760 --> 0:42:26.520 four years another, give another mechanic, you know, the station lab, 0:42:26.560 --> 0:42:30.400 try and run it. And but he brought a bass. 0:42:30.600 --> 0:42:35.640 He brought a bull horn Dan electro bass home. And 0:42:35.760 --> 0:42:38.320 so I bought this from this guy out at the plant. 0:42:38.480 --> 0:42:40.720 He said, he's young guy. He just needed money. He said, 0:42:40.880 --> 0:42:44.359 I figured you could play an electric guitar. I said, well, dad, 0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:46.520 that's not a guitar. I don't know how to play 0:42:46.560 --> 0:42:49.920 a bass a base. And when I thought about we 0:42:50.520 --> 0:42:54.160 in my it was black. It's a classic. It's probably 0:42:54.160 --> 0:42:58.080 worth multiple thousand dollars now. I think about that bullhorn, 0:42:58.480 --> 0:43:02.080 Dan electro bass and we painted at baby blue. For 0:43:02.120 --> 0:43:05.319 some reason, we sprayed my brother and I, you know neither. 0:43:05.760 --> 0:43:08.000 You know, I fooled around with it, but I couldn't play. 0:43:08.680 --> 0:43:10.799 But I had a real acoustic guitar. He had this 0:43:10.880 --> 0:43:13.279 k that I had when I was about two years old. 0:43:13.360 --> 0:43:16.640 Three there photos me with it, just bellering and trying 0:43:16.640 --> 0:43:18.960 to hold my granny hole in the top and the headstock, 0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:23.040 and I tripped and fell and crushed that. So then 0:43:23.080 --> 0:43:24.880 I had a couple of toy things that you know, 0:43:24.920 --> 0:43:29.040 between then and at eight years old. And this goes 0:43:29.080 --> 0:43:34.080 to who he was. And my parents saw the earth 0:43:34.120 --> 0:43:39.520 people that worked really hard, and he had a bit 0:43:39.520 --> 0:43:42.040 of walder Midie and he was always dreaming. And this 0:43:42.200 --> 0:43:44.000 was back to what I was talking about with the 0:43:44.120 --> 0:43:49.080 people that he knew, the cross pollinization of culture because 0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:51.200 they knew he was a great mechanic. And some of 0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:54.920 these guys like cars and they had that in common, 0:43:54.960 --> 0:43:58.520 but nothing else with him. And even him trying to 0:43:58.600 --> 0:44:01.440 learn to golf was hilarious. I caddied for him till 0:44:01.440 --> 0:44:05.400 the last time I laughing, so I collapsed onto the course. 0:44:05.480 --> 0:44:13.160 And anyway, but I wrote this song on that guitar 0:44:13.840 --> 0:44:18.319 because the newsreels were coming at dinner. You'd hear, you know, 0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:20.880 the Marines have gone into landed at Danang, Remember that 0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:24.880 they did. They did a landing craft landing if you remember, 0:44:24.880 --> 0:44:29.439 it was like a big staged you know, bit sort 0:44:29.440 --> 0:44:32.600 of all of World War two. And that must have 0:44:32.680 --> 0:44:35.440 prompted me because I was starting to see, you know, 0:44:35.480 --> 0:44:38.160 in that first couple of years of the active war. 0:44:38.280 --> 0:44:41.520 You know, it's would have been what eight, I was 0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:43.520 sixty four, eight years old, but. 0:44:43.640 --> 0:44:46.480 Sixty four was really before that. I was just advisory. 0:44:46.520 --> 0:44:49.560 Yeah, yeah, no, when went in when of the Marines? 0:44:49.560 --> 0:44:53.120 Actually sixty five. But anyway, I wrote this song called 0:44:53.160 --> 0:44:56.799 how Far Is Heaven? And my parents didn't quite they 0:44:56.840 --> 0:44:59.560 didn't know it was a hillbilly thing. It was half finished. 0:45:00.080 --> 0:45:01.960 That talks about it over the years a few times 0:45:02.000 --> 0:45:06.400 in interviews, but it went uh and it started with 0:45:06.440 --> 0:45:10.080 this hillbilly waltz ching ing, which is not all. I 0:45:10.080 --> 0:45:12.239 could plague two couple of chords. I don't play much 0:45:12.239 --> 0:45:15.560 more than that now, but I was getting interested. My 0:45:15.719 --> 0:45:20.160 daddy got killed over in Vietnam. Then there's just a 0:45:20.200 --> 0:45:25.000 few things that I don't understand boom boom boom. How 0:45:25.200 --> 0:45:30.800 far is heaven? When can I go? I love my daddy, Lord, 0:45:30.880 --> 0:45:33.399 I miss him. So so anyway, they heard me doing 0:45:33.440 --> 0:45:36.400 something they hadn't. I came downstairs, said what are you playing? 0:45:37.440 --> 0:45:39.239 And so I played it for him. My dad was 0:45:39.280 --> 0:45:42.799 flabbergast and almost offended. He said, whoa what in the 0:45:42.840 --> 0:45:46.760 world's he writing? Like I'm dead? My mother? He didn't 0:45:48.120 --> 0:45:52.360 like he's you know, poetic license. He didn't quite great, 0:45:52.520 --> 0:45:55.640 didn't grasp it. It's like you want me dead? You 0:45:55.680 --> 0:45:59.319 think he's looking at my mom. It's like he was hilarious. 0:45:59.400 --> 0:46:03.799 Actually a tough dude, tough guy, but a soft heart. 0:46:10.880 --> 0:46:13.760 Okay, okay, A couple of things. So with your father, 0:46:15.040 --> 0:46:17.600 this was really you're a little young, as you said, 0:46:17.960 --> 0:46:21.839 but anti Vietnam and pro Vietnam was. I don't want 0:46:21.840 --> 0:46:24.320 to equate it with abortion because there are two different things, 0:46:24.560 --> 0:46:28.919 but the vociferousness that people held their positions. Was your 0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:33.480 father always pro Vietnam? Or did he ever start to crump? 0:46:33.880 --> 0:46:36.160 I think he well, no, I think by the end 0:46:36.680 --> 0:46:40.080 he like a lot of xgis were like watching that 0:46:40.320 --> 0:46:44.640 from the distance and going, I don't know what in 0:46:44.680 --> 0:46:52.719 the hell there you know, yeah, he became disillusioned. But again, uh, 0:46:52.840 --> 0:46:56.080 there was. It's not as clear as black and white 0:46:56.280 --> 0:47:01.120 if your memory, if you really in line is the moments, Bob, 0:47:01.719 --> 0:47:06.080 there was, especially where we were, you know, the Ohio Valley. 0:47:06.440 --> 0:47:12.239 You've moved out into Greater Appalachian, right, you're out there 0:47:12.239 --> 0:47:17.120 in that region, and it's I mean I came from. 0:47:17.600 --> 0:47:19.440 He was in a union. He was a shop steward 0:47:19.600 --> 0:47:22.239 in the union. But he became disillusioned because you know, 0:47:22.320 --> 0:47:26.200 the power of unions becomes correct, they become corrupt, right, 0:47:27.520 --> 0:47:30.560 whether it's Hoffer or whatever. I forget what. He was 0:47:30.560 --> 0:47:32.160 a shop steward and one day he came home with 0:47:32.200 --> 0:47:34.839 his eye cut open because a guy on the line, 0:47:34.880 --> 0:47:37.040 because there was a guy that kept showing up drunk 0:47:37.719 --> 0:47:41.799 right to work at a plant, big factory, you know, 0:47:42.480 --> 0:47:44.400 and they're all on the line, and this guy was 0:47:44.400 --> 0:47:47.000 going to get somebody killed. He said, this guy's drunk 0:47:48.040 --> 0:47:51.120 and in not showing up, and it was his job 0:47:51.160 --> 0:47:53.440 to go defend him to the teeth, right, you know, 0:47:53.520 --> 0:47:56.520 and say he can be you know, he's absent now 0:47:56.760 --> 0:47:59.360 he you know, he's sick. He was sick. He was sick, 0:48:00.040 --> 0:48:04.520 and finally he said, and this is the old army sergeant. 0:48:05.480 --> 0:48:08.000 I can't do that anymore. You know, I can't cover 0:48:08.080 --> 0:48:10.120 for this clown, do you know what I mean? The 0:48:10.239 --> 0:48:13.120 Union was saying, hey, dude, you're covering for him. You're 0:48:13.120 --> 0:48:16.879 the shop steward. You're covering. And he said, not doing it. 0:48:18.040 --> 0:48:22.839 And the guy down the line let a flywheel part 0:48:22.880 --> 0:48:25.000 of a refrigerator like it was a it was a 0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:29.719 Westinghouse plant, right, They built refrigerators to let that go 0:48:29.880 --> 0:48:33.359 down the line the conveyor, but and it bounced, ricocheted 0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:37.960 and caught the guy next to him his hand and 0:48:38.000 --> 0:48:39.959 cut him and then hit my dad in the eye, 0:48:40.719 --> 0:48:42.399 you know, came up and cut him and it could 0:48:42.440 --> 0:48:43.920 have killed either of them. You know, it could have 0:48:44.040 --> 0:48:47.960 killed him. That was the warning shot right from you know, 0:48:48.600 --> 0:48:51.440 the Union. It's like, you know, so I saw that 0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:54.040 at close range. I watched him come home with stitches 0:48:54.080 --> 0:48:57.640 in that eye and what happened. And he said, well, 0:48:57.840 --> 0:49:01.040 this guy didn't like that. I I'm fed up. I'm 0:49:01.080 --> 0:49:03.680 not covering. You know, the Warren Oates moment. Remember the 0:49:03.760 --> 0:49:06.000 scene in the barracks where the guy jumps up and goes, 0:49:06.800 --> 0:49:09.479 it's his name, And they introduced themselves, and he says, 0:49:09.520 --> 0:49:12.000 I'm Francis, So any of you guys, he said the 0:49:12.000 --> 0:49:16.120 pejority of the interview mother, call me Francis. I'll kill you. 0:49:16.520 --> 0:49:19.840 He goes, and you touch my ship, I'll kill you. 0:49:19.920 --> 0:49:22.719 And he goes through a laundry list up. Anybody does 0:49:22.760 --> 0:49:24.480 this and that, I'll kill you. And Warren Oates is 0:49:24.480 --> 0:49:28.719 sitting there chewing on the cigar. He just sit down 0:49:28.760 --> 0:49:32.239 and stow it. Francis were the top thing on the list. 0:49:32.239 --> 0:49:35.560 Don't call me Francis. Sit down and stow it. Francis. 0:49:35.560 --> 0:49:38.680 Which is that's those guys right that run the army. 0:49:38.760 --> 0:49:41.120 They run the military. You know, anybody's smart, that's been 0:49:41.360 --> 0:49:44.520 the officers will tell you the thing that'll get you saved. 0:49:45.520 --> 0:49:48.560 Listen to your NCLs. Right. Let the old sergeant lead. 0:49:48.840 --> 0:49:50.520 And that's who he was. You know. He had have 0:49:50.600 --> 0:49:52.920 a career in and didn't want to get out. But 0:49:52.960 --> 0:49:57.080 he couldn't take us. His heart wouldn't let him go back. 0:49:57.120 --> 0:49:59.440 And his captain, I mean, he said, wow, my captain 0:49:59.480 --> 0:50:02.560 told me just go home. Spent a few months as 0:50:02.600 --> 0:50:05.360 you realist. I'll give you your full stripes back and 0:50:05.400 --> 0:50:07.160 put a stripe on it and come back to me, 0:50:07.200 --> 0:50:10.440 and he never did. But he never quit. And it 0:50:10.560 --> 0:50:15.120 wasn't about you know, the raw, raw end of it. 0:50:15.120 --> 0:50:19.920 It was about the function of the hierarchy of the military. 0:50:19.960 --> 0:50:23.200 I think you know what I mean, the organization. Do 0:50:23.239 --> 0:50:26.040 you know it made sense to him? Does that mean 0:50:26.080 --> 0:50:30.839 you know? And and great, great mechanical aptitude, So order 0:50:30.960 --> 0:50:33.560 probably made sense to him in that way. I was 0:50:33.640 --> 0:50:35.520 fascinated with it. I would say, I could tell you 0:50:35.880 --> 0:50:40.840 the crazy service in terms of rank and insignia is 0:50:40.880 --> 0:50:43.920 the Navy. The Navy's and I have a whole theory 0:50:43.960 --> 0:50:50.720 about the Navy that that the most uh suspect officer 0:50:50.760 --> 0:50:53.680 corps might be the Navy, because I my theory is, 0:50:54.320 --> 0:50:56.480 and this is my own barnyard theory is, you know, 0:50:56.520 --> 0:51:00.360 from teenage years on, was that there there will He 0:51:00.400 --> 0:51:04.920 didn't necessarily it can be compromised a little bit. There 0:51:04.960 --> 0:51:06.800 was ever a real coop in the United States. I 0:51:06.800 --> 0:51:09.680 think it might come from Naval intelligence rather than any 0:51:09.680 --> 0:51:12.399 of the branch because they're so removed when you think 0:51:12.400 --> 0:51:16.400 about their duty post from the country, especially in peacetime. 0:51:16.520 --> 0:51:19.480 Right they're on the high seas, They're all over the world, 0:51:20.080 --> 0:51:25.080 So there's a disconnect maybe possibly anyway, whatever, that's a 0:51:25.080 --> 0:51:26.719 whole like I said, no. 0:51:26.480 --> 0:51:29.120 No, okay, but tell me about him owning the Texico station. 0:51:29.480 --> 0:51:31.200 Well, he had that. He was great. And then his 0:51:31.360 --> 0:51:35.000 younger brother. He was one of three boys. He had 0:51:35.000 --> 0:51:36.880 an older brother and he was in the middle, and 0:51:36.920 --> 0:51:39.560 they had this younger brother and the two of them. 0:51:39.840 --> 0:51:44.800 He owned it and this brother, and it's just managing 0:51:44.840 --> 0:51:46.680 the money of it and all that stuff and trying 0:51:46.719 --> 0:51:48.719 to make it go. And that's back in the day 0:51:48.760 --> 0:51:52.799 when there were four corners. There were four stations, like 0:51:52.840 --> 0:51:55.520 there was a Saint Clair or Chevron, and my mom's 0:51:56.080 --> 0:51:59.600 cousins who had come out of Kentucky, the Christian Brothers, 0:52:00.400 --> 0:52:03.880 he owned a Sinclair I think. Then one night I 0:52:03.920 --> 0:52:05.760 remember all the stories, but he walked out and flicked 0:52:05.760 --> 0:52:10.080 a cigarette or a cigar. But as the tanker was loading, 0:52:10.200 --> 0:52:13.240 you know, fueled into the station and went it skipped 0:52:13.239 --> 0:52:20.400 across the lot and exploded. His whole station burned to 0:52:20.440 --> 0:52:24.200 the ground. That's the classic move. My dad didn't do 0:52:24.239 --> 0:52:28.439 anything that because again he was our army sergeant, kind 0:52:28.440 --> 0:52:32.480 of smart and and seizoned and he was like, what 0:52:32.239 --> 0:52:35.880 you what the hell are you thinking? There? Flicker a cigarette, 0:52:35.880 --> 0:52:38.640 a cigar butt across the lot. When that guy's out, 0:52:38.800 --> 0:52:41.879 the fumes are gonna And that's what happened. The fumes 0:52:42.160 --> 0:52:44.800 caught just one spark and it was like the whole 0:52:44.800 --> 0:52:47.560 corner went up. And they're lucky that the four could. 0:52:47.840 --> 0:52:50.480 I don't know, and and and uh because you were 0:52:50.520 --> 0:52:53.320 raised in Connecticut, right, yeah, yeah. 0:52:53.200 --> 0:52:57.239 Oh I remember the four gas the four corners. Now 0:52:57.280 --> 0:53:00.399 it's like you have to think about buying gas. Oh yeah, 0:53:00.440 --> 0:53:03.560 we're the never mind the price wars and the glasses 0:53:03.640 --> 0:53:04.000 and all that. 0:53:05.400 --> 0:53:07.440 And Sonoko he had a Texico and he had it 0:53:07.480 --> 0:53:09.440 for about three and a half years. He had a 0:53:09.600 --> 0:53:13.520 red pickup truck with that big star on the side, 0:53:14.080 --> 0:53:17.319 and it was fascinating. We got our first real dog 0:53:17.400 --> 0:53:20.400 from there. A guy didn't want to gave us his boy. 0:53:20.480 --> 0:53:23.719 He had a boxer that he ended up in that 0:53:23.760 --> 0:53:26.359 gas station. Uh, he had him there for a week 0:53:26.480 --> 0:53:29.160 or two, and he brought him home, Duke and that 0:53:29.600 --> 0:53:32.640 boxer that we ended up inheriting from from the gas station, 0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:38.200 and uh uh, you know, he he just it ended 0:53:38.280 --> 0:53:40.120 up financially failing. I was too young to know the 0:53:40.120 --> 0:53:42.279 machinations of it, you know, But he just couldn't make 0:53:42.400 --> 0:53:44.520 the business side of it go and makes sense. And 0:53:44.520 --> 0:53:47.680 they were being charged rent by Texico and sometimes the 0:53:48.200 --> 0:53:51.480 was set up on the margins when I look, you know, 0:53:51.520 --> 0:53:54.719 I know now that and they expected a certain amount 0:53:54.719 --> 0:53:56.840 of failure and they would just replace you with the 0:53:56.880 --> 0:53:59.719 next guy. They didn't. Texao didn't lose the corner. You know, 0:53:59.760 --> 0:54:01.440 they owned it and you were paying them. 0:54:01.480 --> 0:54:04.400 You know, there's this there's the same scam now in 0:54:04.480 --> 0:54:08.560 lawn haul truck drivers that they basically leash you the 0:54:08.600 --> 0:54:11.000 car to own and the guys can't keep the payments 0:54:11.280 --> 0:54:13.360 and they just you know, they charged a lot to 0:54:13.400 --> 0:54:15.120 get in and they just pass it on to the. 0:54:15.080 --> 0:54:18.080 Net next guy. And it's just a shame, but anybody. 0:54:18.280 --> 0:54:20.799 So that was that world. And then he went on, 0:54:20.960 --> 0:54:27.000 like I said, and always attempted to better himself. And 0:54:28.040 --> 0:54:30.120 you know, it was always looking to like he went 0:54:30.160 --> 0:54:34.360 to night school to try and you know, and just 0:54:34.480 --> 0:54:37.560 wasn't hadn't been prepared for that, you know, because he 0:54:37.640 --> 0:54:39.800 ended up dropping out of high school. He was sixteen 0:54:39.880 --> 0:54:41.680 when he enlisted. He was under age when he went 0:54:41.680 --> 0:54:45.759 in the army. It was post war, the Treatsy Forces. 0:54:46.080 --> 0:54:49.320 Because Colonel David Hackwort was a great book called About Face. 0:54:50.239 --> 0:54:54.760 He was a full bird colonel, highly decorated in Vietnam, 0:54:54.800 --> 0:54:59.840 and he went on what was you know, the Sunday 0:54:59.840 --> 0:55:04.880 morn warning should meet the press from Vietnam and railed 0:55:04.920 --> 0:55:07.799 against the conduct of the military and you know, the 0:55:07.800 --> 0:55:11.239 politicians running the war in I don't know what I 0:55:11.239 --> 0:55:14.239 think nineteen seventy or seventy one whatever, in saying, this 0:55:14.280 --> 0:55:16.400 is getting good kids killed for no reason. And he 0:55:16.920 --> 0:55:21.520 immediately was you know, I don't know if he quit 0:55:21.560 --> 0:55:24.560 the military at that point, but he was dumped. But 0:55:29.000 --> 0:55:30.759 I don't know why I was talking about hack course book, 0:55:30.800 --> 0:55:36.920 but about Face, and to you know, he was trying 0:55:37.000 --> 0:55:39.239 attempting to oh, I know what it was. He went 0:55:39.280 --> 0:55:41.640 in the army under age, like hack Corts had done 0:55:41.960 --> 0:55:44.279 post World War Two. He jumped in as a way out. 0:55:44.480 --> 0:55:47.520 You know. My granddad been a railroader, right, you know, 0:55:47.680 --> 0:55:50.759 and was with Penn Central at that point. My great 0:55:50.760 --> 0:55:53.680 grandfather had been a cabinet maker for the railroad. Came 0:55:53.719 --> 0:55:55.759 out of he was a baby and came out of 0:55:55.800 --> 0:55:59.280 the Shenandoah Valley and a constagle wagon across the Ohio, 0:55:59.320 --> 0:56:02.000 you know, and in the Ohio Valley and that's where 0:56:02.040 --> 0:56:05.319 they landed in southern Ohio across from Kentucky. And then 0:56:05.400 --> 0:56:11.080 my mom's side of the families steeped in southeasternmost Kentucky 0:56:11.120 --> 0:56:15.080 in deep western Virginia, you know, goes back. We don't 0:56:15.080 --> 0:56:17.880 know how many generations. I never really explored enough of 0:56:17.920 --> 0:56:22.200 it on that side, the Tibbs family, Ratlets, Gillhams, it's 0:56:22.320 --> 0:56:27.759 old mountain names. But so he had this railroad background, 0:56:28.400 --> 0:56:35.480 but he wanted to escape it, and I think I 0:56:35.480 --> 0:56:38.160 got a bit of his optimism, you know. He you 0:56:38.200 --> 0:56:41.120 know that he was always hoping for a better life, 0:56:41.360 --> 0:56:46.400 you know, and not always successful at trying to attempt 0:56:46.400 --> 0:56:49.640 the next move, you know. And ironically he ended up 0:56:49.800 --> 0:56:52.840 living the last thirty years of his life in Kentucky, 0:56:53.280 --> 0:56:58.680 in Louisville actually, but he became a state He worked 0:56:58.680 --> 0:57:00.439 for the State of Ohio at one point he became 0:57:00.480 --> 0:57:03.719 a construction inspector for the city and was really good 0:57:03.760 --> 0:57:07.440 at that. He had great, you know, mechanical aptitude. And 0:57:07.480 --> 0:57:10.160 then ended up working for the State of Kentucky his 0:57:10.280 --> 0:57:14.160 last you know, I don't know, fifteen years of his 0:57:14.239 --> 0:57:21.480 working life and retired from there. But I think back 0:57:21.520 --> 0:57:26.440 he and I were just so different, as you know, personalities. 0:57:26.520 --> 0:57:29.720 My brother and he were more in common with each 0:57:29.760 --> 0:57:33.000 other any think, and locked horns a lot more than men. 0:57:33.000 --> 0:57:35.960 I would look at my my younger brothers. You're the 0:57:36.000 --> 0:57:41.240 rebel without the cause, Bob and the middle kid. Right, yeah, absolutely, 0:57:41.280 --> 0:57:42.120 we'll get to that adventure. 0:57:42.200 --> 0:57:44.320 But you know, we've talked about this before, but let's 0:57:44.320 --> 0:57:49.840 go back here where. Yes, you basically grew up in Ohio, 0:57:50.400 --> 0:57:55.000 but it's like Kentucky. It's the epicenter of the opioid 0:57:55.160 --> 0:57:58.520 culture and bad things. So for those of us who 0:57:58.560 --> 0:58:01.520 did not grow up there, you know, we hear about 0:58:01.600 --> 0:58:05.200 coal miner's daughter, we hear about the holler. You know, 0:58:06.080 --> 0:58:08.520 what exactly what was it like in your father's error? 0:58:08.600 --> 0:58:09.440 What was it like for you? 0:58:09.520 --> 0:58:10.160 What is it like? 0:58:10.240 --> 0:58:13.400 Now? Well, there they were, you know, and my mother, 0:58:15.040 --> 0:58:18.760 who I regret for her that she didn't go on 0:58:18.840 --> 0:58:24.680 to college because she was an exceptional student and great 0:58:24.720 --> 0:58:28.160 with English grammar. She would correct us, you know, and 0:58:28.520 --> 0:58:32.320 a stickler for it. And my granny who barely you know, 0:58:32.400 --> 0:58:34.200 maybe had an I don't know, in eighth grade, the 0:58:34.200 --> 0:58:37.520 classic eighth grade education in the Mountain people, one of 0:58:37.560 --> 0:58:40.120 the ironic moments for me was sitting in that holler. 0:58:40.160 --> 0:58:47.760 It was dirt road. It was basically hollers. Rory Kennedy, huh. 0:58:48.920 --> 0:58:52.280 She's one of Bobby's daughters, all right, Bobby Kennedy junior 0:58:52.480 --> 0:58:56.200 domic Bobby Kennedy daughters is a documentary filmmaker. And she 0:58:56.240 --> 0:58:58.360 did a piece a few years ago. It was a 0:58:58.360 --> 0:59:01.480 great piece called American Hot. I only took exception with 0:59:01.800 --> 0:59:04.720 her calling it a hollow instead of because in the 0:59:04.720 --> 0:59:08.240 New England area where you would call it a hollow, right, 0:59:08.280 --> 0:59:11.080 sleepy hollow or well, that's what they are. It's a hollow. 0:59:11.520 --> 0:59:13.960 And it usually was a creek bed coming off the 0:59:14.040 --> 0:59:16.840 mountain top, you know, in southeast Kentucky in that case, 0:59:16.960 --> 0:59:20.440 or in West Virginia or wherever in the mountainous areas, 0:59:20.920 --> 0:59:26.040 and this it was a single car wide dirt road 0:59:26.160 --> 0:59:28.680 up that hollow to get to the top of them, 0:59:28.760 --> 0:59:31.920 you know, from down at the bottom, and a creek 0:59:31.920 --> 0:59:36.560 would run alongside of it out of there. So I was, 0:59:37.000 --> 0:59:40.120 and that was only it was ninety miles you know, 0:59:40.400 --> 0:59:42.960 to Kentucky from as we would go home, they call 0:59:43.000 --> 0:59:45.880 it going home. That was what I my mother would 0:59:45.960 --> 0:59:48.800 We're gonna go home this weekend and would take I 0:59:48.880 --> 0:59:51.240 used to say we're tail like babies, because you would 0:59:51.280 --> 0:59:53.760 see a line on Route twenty three out of Columbus. 0:59:54.600 --> 0:59:59.920 You would get back onto Route twenty three and beheaded 1:00:00.080 --> 1:00:02.240 south to Portsmouth, hind and go over to Ironan and 1:00:02.280 --> 1:00:04.919 cross into Ashland, which is where the Juds are from. 1:00:05.800 --> 1:00:09.880 And then Ricky Skaggs is another few miles in Louisa. 1:00:10.000 --> 1:00:13.800 Down that road, that same highway, Loretta Lynn, Crystal Gale 1:00:13.880 --> 1:00:18.240 or another county down. I'm on a sign that you 1:00:18.240 --> 1:00:20.040 get to Pike County and that's where I was born. 1:00:20.120 --> 1:00:23.320 Pipe Well, Patty Lovelas is a string of us that 1:00:23.440 --> 1:00:26.760 came off that highway and that one section of Kentucky, 1:00:26.800 --> 1:00:29.120 that state that went on. And then if you go 1:00:29.280 --> 1:00:33.920 just across from Pike County where it borders it borders Virginia, 1:00:35.080 --> 1:00:37.440 and you go across Ford Grundy and up and through 1:00:37.480 --> 1:00:41.760 there's Clinch Mountain, which is where Ralph and Carter Stanley 1:00:41.800 --> 1:00:45.360 came out up in the Carter family. Right ap card 1:00:45.600 --> 1:00:49.240 the beginning of modern country music. Really right, they go 1:00:49.320 --> 1:00:51.800 down and do the Bristol Sessions. Two acts came out 1:00:51.800 --> 1:00:57.360 of the Bristol Sessions. Jimmy Rogers, right, and which was 1:00:57.400 --> 1:00:59.480 it Ralph Pierre that went down with the recording. I 1:00:59.480 --> 1:01:01.840 can't remember who went down and did the Bristol sessions 1:01:01.840 --> 1:01:06.800 down anyway, And Jimmy Rodgers and the Carter family and 1:01:06.840 --> 1:01:09.480 those of the two that blew up and made country 1:01:09.560 --> 1:01:16.240 music in nineteen twenty seven commercial And so I'm born there, right, 1:01:16.800 --> 1:01:21.280 and the escape route across the river lands me, you know, 1:01:21.480 --> 1:01:24.920 up there in Columbus, And so my perspective was, and 1:01:24.960 --> 1:01:27.240 I would get so carsick when we'd drive down through 1:01:27.240 --> 1:01:29.880 therecause you follow Coultro as a two lane road, two 1:01:29.960 --> 1:01:32.919 lane highway it was. It was a US Route Route 1:01:32.960 --> 1:01:36.880 twenty three, and to this day it's widening and stuff, 1:01:36.880 --> 1:01:39.840 but there's no interstate running over there. They were supposed 1:01:39.880 --> 1:01:42.320 to put a new sixty six out of d C. 1:01:42.520 --> 1:01:44.680 It's never been finished. It was going to go through there. 1:01:45.320 --> 1:01:52.640 But and on one of the people that blocked you know, 1:01:52.880 --> 1:01:55.720 a US road going down through there was I believe 1:01:56.200 --> 1:02:02.320 Johnson post Lincoln, And it's weird. That's a weird presidency 1:02:02.360 --> 1:02:07.880 and of itself and his his you know, kind of 1:02:08.320 --> 1:02:11.520 hostility towards the South, you know at that point because 1:02:11.520 --> 1:02:16.040 he's from Tennessee the form and vice president, right, I 1:02:16.040 --> 1:02:21.360 mean Johnson who became the president and was impeached, you know, 1:02:21.560 --> 1:02:26.920 prior to Trump, the only I think sitting president impeached. Anyway, 1:02:28.040 --> 1:02:31.920 that culture was there up and down that highway, and 1:02:32.000 --> 1:02:34.880 I used to say that on Friday nights and tail 1:02:34.920 --> 1:02:38.120 a babies, you'd see all these license plates from Michigan 1:02:38.600 --> 1:02:42.440 and Ohio headed south. They were going home from Detroit, 1:02:43.280 --> 1:02:45.760 tons of these cars because they could make it. You know, 1:02:45.800 --> 1:02:48.880 at that point it was it was mostly you could 1:02:48.880 --> 1:02:51.560 do interstate coming down to Columbia. You could jump on 1:02:51.560 --> 1:02:55.640 that US route and take it across into Kentucky. But 1:02:55.720 --> 1:02:58.920 you could be down there from Columbus and you'd be 1:02:58.920 --> 1:03:01.200 at the river an hour and a half and then 1:03:01.440 --> 1:03:04.320 you'd start the hard part of it and there'd be another, 1:03:04.440 --> 1:03:06.600 you know, three hours to get you know, to the 1:03:06.600 --> 1:03:08.640 house in the holler. I wrote about it reading writing 1:03:08.720 --> 1:03:12.920 Route twenty three. You know about the grandparents staying up 1:03:12.920 --> 1:03:14.880 to see those grand babies. You know, they would bring 1:03:14.960 --> 1:03:18.320 us in and then I would spend time down there 1:03:18.320 --> 1:03:20.080 with them in the summers and you just stay there. 1:03:20.120 --> 1:03:22.240 My you know, mother would leave me and you know 1:03:22.240 --> 1:03:24.560 I'd be with them, and they were old mountain people. 1:03:25.240 --> 1:03:27.680 My granddad was born in nineteen oh one, and it's 1:03:27.720 --> 1:03:30.080 you know, it's you know, kind of the Sergeant York 1:03:30.640 --> 1:03:33.840 you know version of that stuff, you know. But I 1:03:33.920 --> 1:03:36.120 learned to shoot a shotgun with him. You know. It's 1:03:36.160 --> 1:03:38.600 all that was, you know, part and parcel of what 1:03:38.640 --> 1:03:46.720 I was living. And they'd had a tougher road to hoe, 1:03:47.160 --> 1:03:49.560 you know than me. I was lucky, you know. They 1:03:49.680 --> 1:03:52.320 they escaped me, you know, so I got to see 1:03:52.320 --> 1:03:54.880 the world and then have it come into the living 1:03:54.920 --> 1:03:56.960 room and color at some point, you know, and. 1:03:58.080 --> 1:04:02.240 Have Okay, So with this late day, what is it 1:04:02.360 --> 1:04:06.840 that people in the blue areas in the metropolis don't 1:04:06.920 --> 1:04:09.360 get about people from that era area? 1:04:11.200 --> 1:04:14.600 Well that there number one I think that I can 1:04:14.680 --> 1:04:17.520 talk about holler that they're suspicious. One of the things 1:04:17.520 --> 1:04:21.760 that stayed with me from Gladwell's book Outliers was his 1:04:21.840 --> 1:04:25.560 discussion about not being able to keep a circuit judge 1:04:25.760 --> 1:04:28.800 as late as the eighties, remember in Southeast Kentucky and 1:04:28.880 --> 1:04:31.840 Harlan and he was talking about Harlan County specifically. But 1:04:32.520 --> 1:04:34.320 if you remember that part of the book, he said 1:04:34.520 --> 1:04:36.560 they were going in people would walk in with a 1:04:36.640 --> 1:04:40.520 gun into court and threaten the judge. And they knew 1:04:40.600 --> 1:04:44.080 him minute. I had a great oral surgeon out here 1:04:44.120 --> 1:04:47.720 that had done his his his. 1:04:47.840 --> 1:04:50.040 I think this is hillbilly elogy you're referring to. 1:04:50.160 --> 1:04:55.040 Right, No, no, no, it's Gladwell's book Outliers. He talks 1:04:55.040 --> 1:04:59.400 about Harlan County, Kentucky, and how the feuding culture it 1:04:59.480 --> 1:05:01.800 crops up around the world in places that are not 1:05:01.880 --> 1:05:07.080 hospitable to agrarian culture, that are herd cultures, like if 1:05:07.080 --> 1:05:11.480 you remember the Highlands of Scotland, of the Mediterranean Crescent 1:05:11.600 --> 1:05:16.000 right the menu, where they don't operate as a collective 1:05:16.080 --> 1:05:22.160 force in it. They had to take any any suspicious person. 1:05:22.640 --> 1:05:25.640 A stranger shows up and if he bumps into you 1:05:25.720 --> 1:05:28.160 in a bar, you can't let it go because he 1:05:28.240 --> 1:05:31.760 may be testing you like a perimeter, you know, probe 1:05:32.280 --> 1:05:33.960 to see if he can come that if you're a 1:05:33.960 --> 1:05:36.400 weekly and he can come back that night and steal 1:05:36.480 --> 1:05:39.240 your herd of goats, steal your cattle. Because you can 1:05:39.320 --> 1:05:42.480 do that overnight. You can't take a thousand acres of wheat. 1:05:43.040 --> 1:05:46.120 You can't move that overnight. It takes a collective effort. 1:05:46.200 --> 1:05:48.439 Right to harvest it, put it on a truck, put 1:05:48.440 --> 1:05:50.200 it on you know whatever, and take it to market. 1:05:50.720 --> 1:05:54.800 But with herds, and it moved out across the country 1:05:54.840 --> 1:05:57.120 when you think about it, you know, with the last 1:05:57.160 --> 1:06:00.520 bashing being the cattle country in the west right where 1:06:00.560 --> 1:06:03.080 they fought the farmers coming in and putting up fences, 1:06:03.080 --> 1:06:07.240 et cetera. And they even got down to killing with regulators, 1:06:07.240 --> 1:06:10.800 you know, and things like that. So that culture's there. 1:06:10.840 --> 1:06:13.160 And what I would say is just know that they're 1:06:13.280 --> 1:06:18.919 suspect of everybody that doesn't, you know, come from their 1:06:18.960 --> 1:06:23.160 local area. Any outside that shows up, they're watching you. 1:06:23.680 --> 1:06:25.840 I was going to say, I had this this this 1:06:27.320 --> 1:06:31.560 oral surgeon out here who found out me. You got 1:06:31.600 --> 1:06:33.600 acquainted with me a little bit, and he went, wait 1:06:33.600 --> 1:06:37.120 a minute, you're from Kentucky's I want the University of Kentucky. 1:06:37.440 --> 1:06:39.400 He's wearing diners and know where you've ever heard of 1:06:39.400 --> 1:06:40.800 it either. I went to the University of Kentucky and 1:06:40.880 --> 1:06:43.480 did my They had a program there where you did. 1:06:44.160 --> 1:06:46.600 He had gotten his degree in dentistry and went back 1:06:46.640 --> 1:06:48.920 there to specialize in oral surgery. And while you're doing it, 1:06:48.960 --> 1:06:51.480 they became an MD, became a medical doctor. Along with 1:06:52.400 --> 1:06:57.120 you know, getting his specially in oral surgery, he said. 1:06:57.160 --> 1:06:59.400 But part of the deal was, I said, well, I'm 1:06:59.400 --> 1:07:02.560 from You probably never been where I'm born, Pipewell, Kentucky. 1:07:02.680 --> 1:07:07.040 We down it's last corner of the state. And he said, 1:07:07.200 --> 1:07:11.040 are you kidding? He said, our professor, the head of 1:07:11.040 --> 1:07:16.720 the department at University of Kentucky, had had dental offices 1:07:16.800 --> 1:07:19.840 in Pike County, in Floyd County, which is where I lived, 1:07:20.200 --> 1:07:22.320 he said, and we had to Part of the deal 1:07:22.520 --> 1:07:25.560 was we had to go work those on the weekends 1:07:25.960 --> 1:07:28.280 for him. He said, let me tell you something I 1:07:28.360 --> 1:07:32.040 learned a lot. He said. There was a guy had 1:07:32.080 --> 1:07:34.640 a dog near him. He was living and he had 1:07:34.640 --> 1:07:37.920 a little house that was owned by the by whoever. 1:07:37.960 --> 1:07:42.600 This doctor was at University of Kentucky. And he said, 1:07:43.640 --> 1:07:45.800 I was asleep the first couple of nights and there 1:07:45.840 --> 1:07:48.880 was a hound dog, like you know I was. It 1:07:49.000 --> 1:07:51.240 wasn't even it was a hunting dog, but he was. 1:07:51.360 --> 1:07:55.320 They were in this pen on an adjacent lot and 1:07:55.360 --> 1:07:57.040 they were barking all night, and he said, I had 1:07:57.040 --> 1:07:59.200 to get sleep, he said, so I went over and 1:07:59.360 --> 1:08:02.400 just lifted the thing. They weren't going to stop. They're 1:08:02.480 --> 1:08:05.000 hound dogs, you know, just in there, bellering and hollering. 1:08:05.600 --> 1:08:08.640 He said, I just lifted the latch and kind of 1:08:08.680 --> 1:08:15.080 let them go. He said. About two days later, he said, 1:08:15.080 --> 1:08:17.800 I gotta knock on my door in that little house, 1:08:17.840 --> 1:08:20.800 shotgun house, he said. He said. The guy came up 1:08:22.040 --> 1:08:26.360 and he said, uh, I said, hey, mister. He said, 1:08:26.520 --> 1:08:29.639 just two guys. He said. They were scary looking, haunted, 1:08:30.120 --> 1:08:34.040 gaunt faced, you know, coal miner looking guys, and they're 1:08:34.439 --> 1:08:39.040 hunting caps. And there to them, he said, said our 1:08:39.160 --> 1:08:43.599 dog got out. And he said, oh really, he said yeah, yeah, 1:08:43.840 --> 1:08:47.360 he said we got them back. He said, but you 1:08:47.360 --> 1:08:50.720 wouldn't know anything about that, would you let them getting out? 1:08:51.120 --> 1:08:53.720 And he said I was like, he said, I literally. 1:08:54.120 --> 1:08:56.400 But he talked about the culture. He told me. He said, 1:08:56.439 --> 1:08:58.400 you know, they would pay in cash and somebody said, 1:08:58.400 --> 1:09:01.439 I knew they couldn't afford any of it. And they 1:09:01.479 --> 1:09:03.800 would come in and have wads of cash to give 1:09:03.880 --> 1:09:07.040 him to fix their kid's tooth or fix and he 1:09:07.040 --> 1:09:09.760 said it was just it was heartbreaking at times. He said, 1:09:09.760 --> 1:09:12.679 and what was you know, part of that experience? And 1:09:12.680 --> 1:09:15.439 and but he said they looked at him and he said, 1:09:16.920 --> 1:09:19.760 you know, you don't let a man dog loose and 1:09:19.800 --> 1:09:21.960 he said, I took it. He said, I got the warning. 1:09:22.280 --> 1:09:23.920 He said. They were both standing. He said they were 1:09:23.920 --> 1:09:26.519 holding shotguns because there were hunters, you know, and hunter 1:09:26.560 --> 1:09:29.439 caps and he said staring at him. He said, because 1:09:29.920 --> 1:09:32.240 so his experience there, it was interesting, you know. He 1:09:32.280 --> 1:09:37.519 and I uh talked about it many times over the years. 1:09:37.560 --> 1:09:42.360 So that culture it's a lost part of America, you know, 1:09:42.400 --> 1:09:46.280 in a way it's it's it's and it's been forgotten 1:09:46.320 --> 1:09:48.680 a lot, you know, they've been left, you know, like 1:09:48.720 --> 1:09:51.160 you said, the opioid crisis that's gone on down there 1:09:51.560 --> 1:09:56.160 and throughout that area of the region, you know. And 1:09:56.160 --> 1:09:59.280 and he'll be theology. He touches on all that the 1:09:59.320 --> 1:10:02.840 aspects of it you get out and Gladwell discusses that 1:10:03.000 --> 1:10:07.520 aspect about in outliers about at the University of michigand 1:10:07.640 --> 1:10:09.920 a double blind study of kids that were removed from 1:10:09.960 --> 1:10:12.360 the South or just recently moved from them stuff, but 1:10:12.439 --> 1:10:15.720 even those that were two and three generations removed. And 1:10:15.800 --> 1:10:17.880 I believe they found in the nineties when they were 1:10:17.960 --> 1:10:21.800 unlocking the DNA code, right, they finally pre prior to 1:10:21.840 --> 1:10:25.679 twenty three and meterison all that stuff they discovered maybe 1:10:25.680 --> 1:10:28.200 a gene why people think they've had past lives. You 1:10:28.240 --> 1:10:31.240 know that you're carrying a sense memory gene. If you've 1:10:31.360 --> 1:10:37.000 read about the sense memories, you're carrying memories from all 1:10:37.080 --> 1:10:42.439 the relative your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, great great great 1:10:42.880 --> 1:10:46.080 as long as they lived through experiences long enough to 1:10:48.720 --> 1:10:51.960 you know, convey those thoughts and experiences through their DNA 1:10:52.320 --> 1:10:55.640 by pro creating forward right, so that if you had 1:10:55.640 --> 1:10:59.519 a great great grandfather that fought in something, you have 1:10:59.640 --> 1:11:03.120 this it's memory, Or you have apprehensions about height, or 1:11:03.160 --> 1:11:06.000 you have you know, you know what I mean. And 1:11:06.360 --> 1:11:10.000 they were talking. Gladwell discusses that these kids that were 1:11:10.120 --> 1:11:12.920 even a generation or two generations removed from the South 1:11:13.200 --> 1:11:18.919 still behaved with the umbrage of Southerners at the University 1:11:18.920 --> 1:11:22.040 of Michigan when they were presented with a circumstance that 1:11:22.880 --> 1:11:25.800 felt insulting to them, How they would react versus a 1:11:25.880 --> 1:11:27.920 kid from New York or you know, a kid from 1:11:27.920 --> 1:11:31.080 the Northeast who didn't react the same way, didn't take 1:11:31.280 --> 1:11:33.800 you know, as much umbrage was something you know, the 1:11:33.880 --> 1:11:37.120 you know the challenge of it. And I do believe 1:11:37.160 --> 1:11:41.280 that it has to do with with being a lost element. 1:11:42.120 --> 1:11:44.920 And I used to tell people, I said, look, Kentucky 1:11:45.080 --> 1:11:47.880 is a mountain state. There's parts of it that are 1:11:48.000 --> 1:11:52.520 that are dixiefied, you know, the central and western part, 1:11:52.720 --> 1:11:57.880 but eastern and southeastern Kentucky, eastern West Kentucky. It's mountain culture. Billy, 1:11:57.880 --> 1:11:59.599 Bob Thornton and I have talked about that because he's 1:11:59.600 --> 1:12:04.080 from arc which is a mountain state again, and it's different. 1:12:04.160 --> 1:12:08.160 The dialects are different. It's not Southern, it's not Southern 1:12:10.320 --> 1:12:14.840 colloquialism the same. It's not you know, Dixie Land kind 1:12:14.840 --> 1:12:19.240 of you know stuff. It's and it was a border 1:12:19.240 --> 1:12:21.120 state for that reason, I think, and that's why West 1:12:21.200 --> 1:12:24.479 Virginia broke away from Virginia, that section of the state, 1:12:24.880 --> 1:12:28.760 you know, within you know, within those states. There was 1:12:28.800 --> 1:12:31.960 this conflict going on. The Hatfields of McCoy's feuded in 1:12:31.960 --> 1:12:35.599 that county historically, that's where it happened, Pike County, Kentucky, 1:12:36.080 --> 1:12:38.000 and they believed that it was an outgrowth of the 1:12:38.040 --> 1:12:41.000 Civil War. I think the McCoys sided with the Union 1:12:41.479 --> 1:12:45.400 and the hat Fields were sympathizers to the Confederacy, and 1:12:45.439 --> 1:12:49.519 they had sons that were in the Southern Army and 1:12:49.600 --> 1:12:51.280 one of them came back and was hiding in a 1:12:51.320 --> 1:12:54.840 cave and the McCoy's allegedly gave him up to the 1:12:54.960 --> 1:12:58.360 Union troops that were there and pipe Bull and they 1:12:58.360 --> 1:13:00.920 went up and killed it. And they believe that's where 1:13:00.960 --> 1:13:03.920 the feud began with the Hatfields of McCoy's and it 1:13:04.000 --> 1:13:07.439 went on, you know that one, you know, for about 1:13:07.479 --> 1:13:11.559 forty five years. A sheriff finally arrested one of each 1:13:11.800 --> 1:13:14.760 part of each family, put them on a barge because 1:13:14.760 --> 1:13:16.800 they couldn't keep them. They would go break them out 1:13:16.800 --> 1:13:19.040 of the jail, you know, literally, and he put them 1:13:19.080 --> 1:13:21.400 on a logging barge at that time before the coal 1:13:21.400 --> 1:13:24.720 barges and sent him up river to Ashland and over 1:13:24.760 --> 1:13:26.479 to Louisville and they were held there and stood a 1:13:26.520 --> 1:13:28.680 trial and that tamped it down and they both went 1:13:28.720 --> 1:13:32.120 to prison and that stopped the feud. As you know 1:13:32.200 --> 1:13:37.280 what historically I've read anyway, that culture is different than 1:13:37.320 --> 1:13:42.040 the Deep South. It's it's the isolationists, you know, they 1:13:42.280 --> 1:13:46.040 really are. It's like the Scottish Highland culture. You know, 1:13:46.360 --> 1:13:51.280 the Scots they're not you know, they weren't like those 1:13:51.320 --> 1:13:54.640 from England, you know, going back as far as you know, 1:13:54.840 --> 1:13:57.240 Mary Queen of Scotts, all of it. You know, it's 1:13:57.439 --> 1:14:02.160 so I think that the Blue States don't understand that 1:14:02.400 --> 1:14:08.040 dynamic of American culture, the you know, the outlier culture 1:14:08.400 --> 1:14:15.519 that's part of that, right, those that are disenfranchised, no 1:14:15.560 --> 1:14:19.400 matter what race, you know, the disenfranchised that are part 1:14:19.400 --> 1:14:20.760 of that. You know. 1:14:28.240 --> 1:14:32.880 Okay, your father was such an organization company man structure. 1:14:32.920 --> 1:14:35.760 You said he liked that. How'd you end up being 1:14:35.800 --> 1:14:37.920 so entrepreneurial? Me? 1:14:39.320 --> 1:14:41.960 Yeah, me being I don't think I'm not that much. 1:14:42.960 --> 1:14:46.439 Two things, it's you're inherently an entrepreneur if you're a 1:14:46.520 --> 1:14:50.559 musician making it's like he did a weekly he. 1:14:51.400 --> 1:14:54.040 Would have never done that. He looked at me one time, 1:14:54.120 --> 1:14:56.840 he said, well, I'm just graduated high school. He said, son, boy, 1:14:56.880 --> 1:14:59.000 you got to know your station in life. And I 1:14:59.040 --> 1:15:02.320 thought I was sad for him when I looked at 1:15:02.400 --> 1:15:04.519 him across you know, I was. I guess I was 1:15:04.560 --> 1:15:07.479 eighteen or nineteen at that point, and I'm still living 1:15:07.479 --> 1:15:10.440 at home and going to school, you know, school at 1:15:09.960 --> 1:15:14.400 a high state. And I thought, wow, it kind of 1:15:14.520 --> 1:15:17.280 broke my heart for him. You know that he felt 1:15:17.960 --> 1:15:20.040 there was a point as much as that Walter Mitty 1:15:20.160 --> 1:15:24.559 was in him, he didn't fully believe he could really, 1:15:25.439 --> 1:15:29.320 you know, grab that ring, you know, and that brass 1:15:29.400 --> 1:15:30.840 ring was not okay? 1:15:30.880 --> 1:15:34.000 Did you always know that you were gonna make it 1:15:34.000 --> 1:15:36.400 that you were going to grab the brass ring doing something? 1:15:36.439 --> 1:15:39.960 For what I said fifth grade? Right that I even earlier, 1:15:40.000 --> 1:15:44.080 there was a craziness, you know. So I'm just egotistical enough, 1:15:44.080 --> 1:15:47.760 because enough of the narcissist maybe that I that I 1:15:47.920 --> 1:15:52.519 anyone that gave me encouragement again outside family, because they 1:15:52.520 --> 1:15:56.000 were and my parents were not. They didn't tamp me down, 1:15:56.360 --> 1:15:58.240 you know, they didn't criticize you know, you know what 1:15:58.280 --> 1:16:00.960 I mean. It's like I've been I've been witnessed now 1:16:01.000 --> 1:16:05.960 as an adult to some families. I'm stunned. I like, wow, 1:16:06.120 --> 1:16:09.680 That's why I said earlier. They weren't malicious ever, And 1:16:09.760 --> 1:16:12.000 I look at it now and I think you where 1:16:12.040 --> 1:16:14.120 you've got parents that are competing. I don't think what 1:16:14.120 --> 1:16:16.160 I've read from you that your parents competed with you. 1:16:16.720 --> 1:16:20.320 They love not what I think my mother on a 1:16:20.439 --> 1:16:23.519 very subtle level, but the difference between my family and 1:16:23.560 --> 1:16:27.160 your family sounds like by today's standards, we were abused kids. 1:16:27.280 --> 1:16:28.840 My father used to hit us all the time. 1:16:29.000 --> 1:16:32.160 Well we got spanked, oh and you didn't my dad, 1:16:32.479 --> 1:16:34.519 but my mother, my mother would make us go pick 1:16:34.520 --> 1:16:37.479 our own switch. That's a hillbalid deal. We would have 1:16:37.479 --> 1:16:39.559 to go pick our own switch. And it wasn't one 1:16:39.600 --> 1:16:44.080 you should bring back that would break. I remember testing 1:16:44.080 --> 1:16:46.960 the switch out on my bare legs and shorts, going 1:16:47.040 --> 1:16:50.360 back across the yard because she had this. We had 1:16:50.360 --> 1:16:54.880 this huge hedge that was we're on this house that 1:16:54.920 --> 1:16:57.479 we had and we have to pick a switch out 1:16:57.520 --> 1:16:59.680 of there. This is brutal, right, we have to go 1:16:59.720 --> 1:17:04.799 pick the element of your of your torture yourself. And 1:17:05.280 --> 1:17:08.200 so we got switched, but they didn't. Never got hit 1:17:08.240 --> 1:17:10.880 in the face, never got hit with you, you know 1:17:10.920 --> 1:17:14.920 what I mean. It was I was spanked, you know. 1:17:15.160 --> 1:17:18.080 It was a little bit more vicious where I grew up. Really, 1:17:18.080 --> 1:17:21.240 my father was a little out of control. He'd had 1:17:21.360 --> 1:17:24.439 his father lost a hand in a railroad accident and 1:17:24.479 --> 1:17:27.360 had been married before. And when he lost die he 1:17:27.439 --> 1:17:29.960 left all whatever money he had to the first family. 1:17:30.040 --> 1:17:33.680 My father had a heart upbringing, and it wasn't until 1:17:35.400 --> 1:17:37.040 very you know, we were way out of the house 1:17:37.600 --> 1:17:40.719 where I remember there used to be this chairlifted Aspen Highlands. 1:17:40.720 --> 1:17:43.160 He was a shitty skier, but he was a terrible athlete. 1:17:43.160 --> 1:17:44.960 It's one thing he could do. And there was this 1:17:45.040 --> 1:17:47.040 chair that took a half an hour. And it would 1:17:47.080 --> 1:17:49.559 be difficult to talk to my father. You could listen 1:17:49.600 --> 1:17:51.880 to him, but it's hard to have a conversation. And 1:17:51.920 --> 1:17:54.920 he started pontificating about all these things that happened to 1:17:55.000 --> 1:17:58.880 him growing up. Never told any of those stories until 1:17:58.920 --> 1:17:59.679 he had made. 1:17:59.520 --> 1:18:05.200 It right right. Wow, did you did you get hit 1:18:06.600 --> 1:18:10.559 like around the face and all that? I mean, oh, 1:18:10.680 --> 1:18:11.160 I mean. 1:18:13.520 --> 1:18:15.519 You know that great line, I'm gonna hit you till 1:18:15.560 --> 1:18:20.720 you stop crying. Wow, that was all that, you know? 1:18:21.240 --> 1:18:21.960 Yeah, that was me. 1:18:22.080 --> 1:18:25.400 Usually it was the belt, sometimes the hair brush, They 1:18:25.680 --> 1:18:27.960 get the hair brush in the head. My father would 1:18:27.960 --> 1:18:28.840 slap you in the face. 1:18:28.920 --> 1:18:32.720 Sure, and yeah we didn't. My father, he contains him. 1:18:32.880 --> 1:18:33.519 Not a guy. 1:18:34.479 --> 1:18:36.840 My father was not the type of guy who was 1:18:36.960 --> 1:18:41.080 beefy and scary that way. But man, when he lost it, 1:18:41.160 --> 1:18:44.320 he was it was almost like this guy is losing control. 1:18:44.439 --> 1:18:45.599 It's like you felt sane. 1:18:45.880 --> 1:18:49.839 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I mean, well, they believed 1:18:49.880 --> 1:18:54.200 in corporal punishment, they were you know, they they spanked, 1:18:54.840 --> 1:18:58.439 but we again I didn't. I'm trying to think of 1:18:58.479 --> 1:19:00.760 my brother. My brother probably came to closest because he 1:19:01.360 --> 1:19:07.280 threatened my dad. And uh, one time I heard him. 1:19:08.520 --> 1:19:12.400 I was in college. My brother was in a bedroom 1:19:12.439 --> 1:19:14.720 next to me. But at that point we had a 1:19:14.760 --> 1:19:17.320 you know, a house you know, on the sub we'd 1:19:17.320 --> 1:19:20.559 gotten one car garage, but had had four bedrooms. My 1:19:20.600 --> 1:19:23.840 sister had a bedroom, brother and I and my parents. 1:19:23.920 --> 1:19:27.160 And he came upstairs and my brother was still in bed. 1:19:27.200 --> 1:19:29.000 He was supposed to be out and going to you know, 1:19:29.120 --> 1:19:32.880 high school, getting and I remember he was grown. He 1:19:33.400 --> 1:19:38.200 was probably in his senior year and I was in 1:19:38.320 --> 1:19:41.800 bed because I didn't have a class at at high State. 1:19:41.840 --> 1:19:44.759 I was and I heard my dad walk in and go, hey, 1:19:45.200 --> 1:19:48.120 get up, and my brother turned or no, he opened 1:19:48.120 --> 1:19:50.439 the door with me first is what was? He said, 1:19:50.479 --> 1:19:52.320 you're getting up? And I said yeah, I mean you know, 1:19:53.479 --> 1:19:57.800 and opened the door of my brother. My dad got up, 1:19:58.160 --> 1:20:00.040 even when he didn't. I never knew dated he and 1:20:00.160 --> 1:20:02.599 have another job. He would leave a job and go 1:20:02.720 --> 1:20:05.439 right to another job, you know, he did. He just 1:20:05.560 --> 1:20:09.439 had that ethic, you know, he would find work in 1:20:09.560 --> 1:20:12.760 early because the army. He was up even in his 1:20:12.880 --> 1:20:14.879 days off. He was up to six am with coffee, 1:20:15.000 --> 1:20:18.160 you know, down there, you know. And so he walked 1:20:18.160 --> 1:20:21.680 into my door first, and he closed and opened my 1:20:21.720 --> 1:20:25.200 brother's door, and my brother rolled over in the bed 1:20:25.240 --> 1:20:29.680 said I heard your mouth. Now what's the t ow 1:20:30.479 --> 1:20:33.920 He said that, and all I heard was my dad 1:20:33.960 --> 1:20:37.160 crossed the room in like three strides and he picked 1:20:37.240 --> 1:20:42.080 him up by the collar and the butt of the 1:20:42.080 --> 1:20:46.120 sheets grabbed his body, picked him up and threw him. 1:20:46.280 --> 1:20:48.800 And that was the barracks I'm sure that was a 1:20:48.840 --> 1:20:53.400 barracks moment. Across the room. He hit the wall. He goes, hey, boy, 1:20:53.520 --> 1:20:57.439 you could you call me my mouth again? Whatever it 1:20:57.520 --> 1:21:00.400 wasn't it stormed out and left, didn't it even face? 1:21:01.120 --> 1:21:02.720 And I got him. I remember, I walked down. I went, 1:21:04.000 --> 1:21:06.120 I leaned on the door John, I said, look at him, 1:21:06.120 --> 1:21:08.759 and he's on the floor, still in a pile of sheets. 1:21:09.840 --> 1:21:13.960 And I said, dude, what were you thinking? It's like, 1:21:14.080 --> 1:21:17.280 what are you thinking? And I and he threatened. I 1:21:17.320 --> 1:21:23.519 heard threats, like another great euphemism. He said. My brother 1:21:23.600 --> 1:21:26.200 had the refrigerator door. You know, this is when we're 1:21:26.280 --> 1:21:30.200 manchild's right. You know, I'm like seventeen, my brother's you know, fifteen. 1:21:30.240 --> 1:21:32.920 We're all standing and he's drinking out of the cart 1:21:32.920 --> 1:21:35.280 and you know, instead of pouring it into the glass, right, 1:21:35.840 --> 1:21:39.439 which which turned my stomach. I didn't do it because 1:21:40.320 --> 1:21:41.880 I don't want to see it done and I'm not 1:21:41.960 --> 1:21:44.479 doing But he was standing there and he did something 1:21:44.560 --> 1:21:46.679 like that, and he left the door just standing open 1:21:46.720 --> 1:21:48.439 and looked over at My dad was sitting at the 1:21:48.479 --> 1:21:50.920 other end of the kitchen table drinking coffee and read 1:21:50.960 --> 1:21:53.920 the newspaper. And he looked up and he said, hell 1:21:54.080 --> 1:21:58.720 you think you're doing He said what he goes, how 1:21:58.720 --> 1:22:00.679 would you like to have to drop up your parts 1:22:00.760 --> 1:22:03.559 to eat your next meal? And we both looked at 1:22:03.560 --> 1:22:09.240 each other, like, how would that happen? He let us. 1:22:09.439 --> 1:22:12.479 He let that sink in for a minute, and he said, 1:22:13.479 --> 1:22:16.559 because that's about how far down your throat your teeth 1:22:16.600 --> 1:22:19.320 are going to be if you keep this up. When 1:22:19.360 --> 1:22:25.280 I got that's the army sergeant going on. And like 1:22:25.320 --> 1:22:29.879 I said, he grew up. My granddad I barely remember. 1:22:29.920 --> 1:22:32.280 He died young. I mean it was early fifties. He 1:22:32.320 --> 1:22:34.920 had a heart attack. My grandmother at forty nine, so 1:22:35.000 --> 1:22:38.080 My dad's parents are both gone. My mom's parents the 1:22:38.360 --> 1:22:42.360 Kentucky side. My granddad, Luke, I knew till I was grown, 1:22:42.840 --> 1:22:46.120 and he was really a soft spoken mountain man, you know. 1:22:46.160 --> 1:22:50.920 He was just this humble coal miner. And I knew 1:22:50.960 --> 1:22:54.360 about all that from the mate Wan point of view, right. 1:22:54.640 --> 1:22:57.120 You know. He was there when the shootings happened, all 1:22:57.160 --> 1:22:59.799 of it. You know, they were back in the twenties 1:22:59.800 --> 1:23:02.680 and thirties. He was a minor, and when they unionized 1:23:02.720 --> 1:23:05.320 and the Pinkertons came in and killed people, you know, 1:23:06.240 --> 1:23:08.439 so I saw all of it, you know, I saw 1:23:08.720 --> 1:23:13.360 you know, the plus and minus of the unionists, you know, 1:23:13.520 --> 1:23:18.519 and what happened and how it happened, and watched in 1:23:18.640 --> 1:23:22.240 any event, my dad said, no, my brother came the 1:23:22.280 --> 1:23:25.280 closest because they would lock horns like that. Example. You know, 1:23:26.040 --> 1:23:28.720 it's like what he's the middle kid, Bob. You know, 1:23:29.400 --> 1:23:30.600 you can't help believe me. 1:23:31.080 --> 1:23:35.679 My older sister used to test my father all the time, 1:23:35.720 --> 1:23:38.040 I remember, because we all ate dinner together. 1:23:38.240 --> 1:23:41.240 Oh yeah, and we didn't take didn't take. 1:23:41.200 --> 1:23:43.679 Much set my father off, and he would reach over 1:23:43.760 --> 1:23:46.280 and smack you. It was about how much could you 1:23:46.400 --> 1:23:49.240 tamp it down, and my sister would get in our 1:23:49.320 --> 1:23:51.720 One time she got in an argument with him and 1:23:51.800 --> 1:23:56.879 took his car. What just could not fucking believe it. 1:23:56.880 --> 1:24:00.160 It's like, what were you thinking of it? Oh? 1:24:00.240 --> 1:24:00.479 Broke? 1:24:02.160 --> 1:24:02.240 No. 1:24:04.080 --> 1:24:07.360 But the only thing is my mother. You know, when 1:24:07.400 --> 1:24:09.559 Reggie Jackson came to New York, he said, I'm the 1:24:09.600 --> 1:24:12.880 straw that stirs the drink. My mother socially was the 1:24:12.960 --> 1:24:15.400 straw that stirs the drink, right, But she was a 1:24:15.400 --> 1:24:20.200 hard ass. Where's my father? As crazy as he could be? 1:24:21.040 --> 1:24:23.480 If he sensed you were really in a bad spot, 1:24:23.920 --> 1:24:27.000 he says, yeah, it sounds like you're really a bad 1:24:27.200 --> 1:24:29.559 Send you twenty dollars, go out for a good deal, 1:24:29.880 --> 1:24:30.840 try to figure it out. 1:24:31.240 --> 1:24:31.519 Yeah. 1:24:31.920 --> 1:24:34.080 My mother would say, go get a job tomorrow. 1:24:34.080 --> 1:24:35.120 Blah blah blah, blahlah blah. 1:24:35.200 --> 1:24:36.559 You know, I don't want to hear it. 1:24:36.880 --> 1:24:41.840 My mom was actually is a tender hearted person. My 1:24:41.960 --> 1:24:49.919 dad was actually underneath that facade. You know, he would 1:24:50.600 --> 1:24:53.640 he was you know, the thing that I regret that 1:24:53.680 --> 1:24:57.880 we're forgetting is forgiveness on our society and life. Do 1:24:57.880 --> 1:25:02.160 you know, Bob, forgiveness is a lost thought? 1:25:02.720 --> 1:25:06.519 Well, hey, there's two types of forgiveness. I think, you know, 1:25:06.720 --> 1:25:11.720 they hold people to unreasonable standards. Now, we all make mistakes. 1:25:12.120 --> 1:25:14.479 If you make the mistake and you apologize, we can't 1:25:14.520 --> 1:25:18.000 hold it against it forever. But I must admit there 1:25:18.040 --> 1:25:21.160 are people who've done things in my life where I 1:25:21.240 --> 1:25:23.400 don't forgive them, and then people say, well if you 1:25:23.479 --> 1:25:26.920 give them, you know, forget that third party. You know, well, 1:25:26.920 --> 1:25:29.679 if you forgive them, you'll feel better. I don't think 1:25:29.720 --> 1:25:32.719 so as far as letting my father off the hook. 1:25:32.760 --> 1:25:35.840 He came from such a hard background whatever, sure. 1:25:36.280 --> 1:25:39.720 Well yeah, that's but also I think my dad had 1:25:39.760 --> 1:25:43.439 the willingness to you know, and as guys you know, 1:25:44.920 --> 1:25:49.040 and my wife sometimes was like, look, yeah, guys fighting 1:25:49.080 --> 1:25:51.599 and you get over you like, you know, you wrestle 1:25:51.640 --> 1:25:55.639 around to one and then you guys now are friends. 1:25:55.960 --> 1:25:59.559 It's like, yeah, but that's the listen. 1:26:00.520 --> 1:26:02.679 You know, that's one thing you learn growing up my mother. 1:26:02.760 --> 1:26:06.160 You know, people today they'll call up the school and 1:26:06.200 --> 1:26:09.719 say they have to stop bullying my kid. In my era, 1:26:09.960 --> 1:26:10.880 that would be like. 1:26:11.240 --> 1:26:12.320 The curse of death. 1:26:12.920 --> 1:26:15.320 If your parents stood up for you, these kids would 1:26:15.320 --> 1:26:18.120 beat the shit out of you. So, you know, my 1:26:18.200 --> 1:26:20.400 mother would never get involved, and she had the right 1:26:20.479 --> 1:26:25.799 lesson unless you stand up to them. Once you stand 1:26:25.880 --> 1:26:29.559 up to them, then they get over it. It's just amazing. 1:26:29.640 --> 1:26:30.879 They move on to the next. 1:26:30.960 --> 1:26:32.720 Some of the culture that's going on now, to the 1:26:33.160 --> 1:26:35.880 whole thing with us. You were referring to that we're 1:26:35.960 --> 1:26:44.120 being so zealous in destroying people for a mistake. 1:26:45.240 --> 1:26:46.080 Is I couldn't agree. 1:26:46.200 --> 1:26:49.080 He was a bully. Called a bully culture to the 1:26:49.160 --> 1:26:51.800 victim can become the in fact, most of the time, 1:26:52.840 --> 1:26:55.800 you know. I talked with Billy Bob Thornton and I 1:26:55.880 --> 1:27:00.320 when he wrote gave me the script for Sling Blade. 1:26:59.800 --> 1:27:03.519 I said, this character is interesting because he's he's a bully, 1:27:03.520 --> 1:27:06.760 and bullies are usually those that are most afraid. And 1:27:06.760 --> 1:27:09.479 I said, he said, yeah, he said he. I said, 1:27:09.520 --> 1:27:12.200 you know the character that I was playing, And I said, 1:27:12.240 --> 1:27:14.320 he's the one that's the most afraid in the room 1:27:14.320 --> 1:27:17.400 and that's why he's or it's out of his control 1:27:17.520 --> 1:27:21.760 and he freaks and starts to But the bullying is 1:27:22.160 --> 1:27:26.080 usually born out of oftentimes being having been the bullied, right, 1:27:26.160 --> 1:27:28.720 the victim, Oh, yeah, the last person you want in 1:27:28.800 --> 1:27:30.919 charge of something. And that's what they do at prisons. 1:27:31.800 --> 1:27:34.760 They make you know, trustees out of other inmates, and 1:27:34.760 --> 1:27:37.439 they you know, put them in charge of the other 1:27:37.479 --> 1:27:41.960 and they're oftentimes the worst you know, uh, you know, 1:27:42.000 --> 1:27:44.479 the worst thing that could happen to the other prisoners 1:27:44.840 --> 1:27:48.200 is another prisoner being elevated being in charge of them. Anyway. 1:27:48.880 --> 1:27:50.840 But well, no, it's the same type of thing, you know, 1:27:51.000 --> 1:27:54.400 talking about your forgiveness. There are all these people who 1:27:54.479 --> 1:27:57.840 can't change their mind. What kind of life is that, 1:27:57.920 --> 1:28:01.040 you know, like in politics, Okay, I believed one thing, 1:28:01.160 --> 1:28:02.679 I now know I'm nothing else. 1:28:02.800 --> 1:28:03.400 Let's move on. 1:28:03.680 --> 1:28:06.160 Yeah, but you can't do that. It's all a team sports. 1:28:07.040 --> 1:28:10.720 To me, that shows a capacity of intelligence that you're 1:28:10.760 --> 1:28:14.800 able to evolve, right, and we can all evolve, you know, 1:28:15.000 --> 1:28:22.599 all of us and anyway, so yeah, but my mom 1:28:22.720 --> 1:28:26.519 also tamped that down. She wouldn't stand. She said, he 1:28:26.560 --> 1:28:28.679 shook me one time when he had just gotten back, 1:28:28.760 --> 1:28:30.400 you know, and just kind of knew me. And she 1:28:30.600 --> 1:28:33.360 was driving in the car and he was holding me 1:28:33.720 --> 1:28:37.240 and I started crying, screeching, like you know, the ten 1:28:37.280 --> 1:28:39.920 month old or whatever I was, and he kind of 1:28:39.920 --> 1:28:44.160 just said he shook me. And she took the car 1:28:44.240 --> 1:28:47.040 across the highway into the medium and back up the 1:28:47.040 --> 1:28:51.240 other side yelling at him into about he's all right, okay, 1:28:51.400 --> 1:28:55.760 don't kill him whatever. I'll never touch the kid. It's like. 1:28:56.600 --> 1:29:00.280 But she, very early on was our protector, and she 1:29:00.360 --> 1:29:03.080 wouldn't allow my granddad, who I was touched on a 1:29:03.080 --> 1:29:06.360 minute ago. My dad had a tough way, you know, 1:29:06.360 --> 1:29:09.960 like your dad, you know, he got knocked around. I mean, 1:29:10.240 --> 1:29:14.040 my granddad was a frustrated prize fighter. He had fought 1:29:14.080 --> 1:29:16.479 in clubs what they call a club fighter when he 1:29:16.560 --> 1:29:20.559 was underage, like at seventeen eighteen nineteen, and you had 1:29:20.560 --> 1:29:23.240 to be twenty one. And they went to his parents. 1:29:23.240 --> 1:29:25.080 There was a guy manager came through and saw him. 1:29:25.080 --> 1:29:27.479 He had a lot of fights and was evidently had 1:29:27.479 --> 1:29:31.599 a really vicious right hand, and they tried to get 1:29:31.680 --> 1:29:34.800 him turned pro and his parents. The old railroad or 1:29:34.800 --> 1:29:38.360 my great granddad, who I knew, actually I knew years 1:29:38.439 --> 1:29:42.479 beyond my grandfather because he outlived he lived into his nineties. 1:29:44.479 --> 1:29:47.599 Samuel Burt, who had come in the wagon, that covered 1:29:47.640 --> 1:29:53.479 wagon into the Ohio territory, come across. He he wouldn't sign. 1:29:54.080 --> 1:30:00.960 He said, nope, nope, Lawrence. That was LR Lawrence. He's 1:30:01.000 --> 1:30:05.400 gonna work on a railroad. And he said destroyed him. 1:30:05.520 --> 1:30:08.439 So he never could. And he drank, even though you 1:30:08.479 --> 1:30:11.639 know he was true to my grandmother, but he drank 1:30:12.439 --> 1:30:15.960 and fistfought. He became a yard boss from the Penn 1:30:16.000 --> 1:30:20.200 Centry and ran the yard railroad yards. But tough guy. 1:30:20.439 --> 1:30:24.400 And my brother, my my my dad and my uncle's 1:30:24.920 --> 1:30:29.760 you know, were uh, you know, treated pretty rough, you 1:30:29.800 --> 1:30:34.320 know by him. So my dad had an empathy for us. 1:30:34.600 --> 1:30:37.200 But my mom is who guided it. You know. I 1:30:37.240 --> 1:30:40.680 watched her at the dinner. He never hit one of 1:30:40.760 --> 1:30:42.439 us in the you know, like you were saying the 1:30:45.000 --> 1:30:49.280 never back. And he threatened, he threatened. I could see 1:30:49.320 --> 1:30:53.640 he was trying real hard not to With my brother especially. 1:30:55.120 --> 1:30:58.040 I used to say to him, said, dude, just say 1:30:58.160 --> 1:31:01.760 yes whatever, and when you get gone and do what 1:31:01.880 --> 1:31:05.439 you're gonna do, get out, you know, don't be the 1:31:05.479 --> 1:31:08.120 rebel that has no cause here. You know, you're not 1:31:08.120 --> 1:31:11.800 gonna win, right. Family dynamics. It's funny that you and 1:31:11.840 --> 1:31:14.000 then you're the youngest of your family. 1:31:14.200 --> 1:31:16.439 Well what happens is my older sister would be out 1:31:16.479 --> 1:31:19.919 of control, then my younger sister would act. 1:31:19.720 --> 1:31:23.280 Like the baby. Well they stay there. You know. 1:31:23.520 --> 1:31:26.519 The key is just don't get caught in the crossfire. Yeah, 1:31:26.600 --> 1:31:29.719 there was so much. My father owned a liquor store. Oh, 1:31:29.720 --> 1:31:33.640 my sister started to have these parties on on the 1:31:33.680 --> 1:31:38.320 weekends where not only would they drink his booze, they 1:31:38.320 --> 1:31:40.559 would leave the boxes at the end of the street. 1:31:40.760 --> 1:31:41.000 Oh. 1:31:41.120 --> 1:31:44.599 My father would go bersirque, say you know, I'm gonna 1:31:44.640 --> 1:31:48.400 lose my liquor license. Forget. It's like you're there's gonna 1:31:48.439 --> 1:31:52.400 be no money. The other thing my father, my father 1:31:52.439 --> 1:31:56.320 would turn around in the station wagon and smack all 1:31:56.360 --> 1:31:57.920 of us in the back to eat, and we were 1:31:58.000 --> 1:31:59.360 less scared to get expacked. 1:31:59.600 --> 1:32:01.280 The thing's got to drive the car right off the 1:32:01.880 --> 1:32:06.280 road was the bigger issue was dying at that point. 1:32:07.160 --> 1:32:10.000 The only time I've got my old man. We had 1:32:10.000 --> 1:32:14.599 a Buick Electra to twenty five convertibles. They inherited from 1:32:14.640 --> 1:32:17.640 my aunt and uncle had it for they sold it 1:32:17.680 --> 1:32:20.040 to my parents. My mom drove it. So we were 1:32:20.040 --> 1:32:22.760 going to Kentucky in that and we were taking this 1:32:22.920 --> 1:32:25.800 cat that we had a duce in a quarter, duce 1:32:25.880 --> 1:32:27.519 in a quarter. I heard it at the at the 1:32:27.560 --> 1:32:30.559 carboys the gap came up and said, where's y'all's car, 1:32:30.600 --> 1:32:32.240 And I said, it's over there. He goes that deduce 1:32:32.280 --> 1:32:35.439 in a quarter that. I was like, wow, that's cool. 1:32:36.120 --> 1:32:40.320 I heard more slang from my dad pre anybody in 1:32:40.400 --> 1:32:43.160 my junior high or high school saying it, because he 1:32:43.240 --> 1:32:45.839 was this old army guy, right, They had the slang, 1:32:46.280 --> 1:32:49.400 the stuff like he'd say, the dude thought he was bad. 1:32:50.080 --> 1:32:54.280 I said bad. My mother said, David, David, will you 1:32:54.360 --> 1:32:58.599 please just go easy on how you talk to these kids. 1:32:58.720 --> 1:33:00.920 He said, well, that's what he said. He thought he 1:33:01.040 --> 1:33:04.000 was bad. He thought he was a bad dude. I 1:33:04.040 --> 1:33:06.439 mean a decade before I heard anybody on the streets 1:33:06.479 --> 1:33:09.839 say that guy's bad, right, and it's like bad badly 1:33:09.880 --> 1:33:12.640 where Brown was late catching up to me, and my 1:33:12.760 --> 1:33:16.240 dad said it and all other kinds of slang. And 1:33:16.280 --> 1:33:18.680 he said, well meaning he thought he was tough, you know, 1:33:18.760 --> 1:33:21.800 he thought he was a real bad cat. And I 1:33:21.880 --> 1:33:24.680 used to say and it was a fascinating moment. I 1:33:24.720 --> 1:33:27.120 got to take he and his wife to Europe with me. 1:33:27.200 --> 1:33:29.599 He had not been back to Germany and he didn't 1:33:29.600 --> 1:33:31.160 want to leave. He was going to get married. I mean, 1:33:31.160 --> 1:33:35.400 thank god he didn't get I wouldn't exist. And the 1:33:35.400 --> 1:33:39.040 commanding general took over his division had been the colonel 1:33:39.040 --> 1:33:43.679 at bestone in the famous note where he wrote back 1:33:43.720 --> 1:33:46.400 to the Germans, nuts and the guy reads it and 1:33:46.400 --> 1:33:48.080 remember them. It's in the midde of the Battle of Ball. 1:33:48.200 --> 1:33:52.160 He was nuts Buss and he's like and so he 1:33:52.240 --> 1:33:54.760 spoke German at the dinner table to us because he 1:33:54.840 --> 1:33:57.400 was there six years. He would speak at go Ah, 1:33:57.600 --> 1:34:02.720 expl said Dodd shot because he dated this, and so 1:34:02.800 --> 1:34:04.880 that general took over and said, anybody'd been over here 1:34:04.920 --> 1:34:09.000 longer than eighteen months, they're gone. He'd been there six years, 1:34:09.080 --> 1:34:12.360 he loved it, and so he had never been back. 1:34:13.280 --> 1:34:15.200 So I think it was in nineteen I was playing 1:34:15.200 --> 1:34:19.400 the Monterey Jazz Festival Montro Jazz Festival, not Monterey, Montro 1:34:19.520 --> 1:34:23.599 Jazz Festival in Switzerland, and they did a bunch of 1:34:23.600 --> 1:34:25.920 things with this. I took them. We had several dates 1:34:25.920 --> 1:34:29.400 across around Europe, a whole run of stuff, and I 1:34:29.439 --> 1:34:31.639 took Key and his wife. And one of the great 1:34:31.640 --> 1:34:33.560 moments for my dad and I to have shared was 1:34:33.600 --> 1:34:35.400 I got to introduce him to Johnny Cash. You know, 1:34:35.479 --> 1:34:39.080 he was the songs that made him famous. Sun record 1:34:39.800 --> 1:34:43.640 I had because my dad had it. The albums that 1:34:43.680 --> 1:34:46.160 I got exposed to her because my dad, my dad 1:34:46.280 --> 1:34:48.200 was one of those what I used to call and 1:34:48.680 --> 1:34:52.280 Cash knew when I met the hillbilly cats that were 1:34:52.280 --> 1:34:55.880 the gis right, that were otherwise would have been locked. 1:34:56.080 --> 1:35:00.240 He What helped open my dad was the almost ten 1:35:00.320 --> 1:35:04.519 years in the army he went culture shopping. Right, they 1:35:04.520 --> 1:35:07.920 were exposed to the world in the way that his 1:35:08.080 --> 1:35:11.200 dad never was. Right. They were locked in the Ohio 1:35:11.360 --> 1:35:14.639 that didn't go outside, you know, from wherever he run 1:35:14.680 --> 1:35:18.360 from Pittsburgh to Evansville, Indiana, along that river and the 1:35:18.680 --> 1:35:22.840 railroad that was it. And my great my granddad and 1:35:22.920 --> 1:35:26.280 my mom's a man. He I remember my granny moved 1:35:26.280 --> 1:35:30.400 out to north of Dallas and Texas with her daughter, 1:35:30.600 --> 1:35:35.559 the youngest of my mom's family, my aunt Kay, and 1:35:35.640 --> 1:35:38.200 lived with them the last year of her life. And 1:35:38.280 --> 1:35:40.559 she used to look. She said, Luther would have never 1:35:41.160 --> 1:35:45.040 imagined this Texas. She said, he never thought there was 1:35:45.080 --> 1:35:49.080 any places flat, you know, because we were just because 1:35:49.120 --> 1:35:51.639 you could see the sunrise and the horizon sun set 1:35:51.640 --> 1:35:56.120 in the horizon, you know, for one hundred miles. So anyway, 1:35:56.560 --> 1:36:01.439 my dad in this really element in a weird way, 1:36:01.880 --> 1:36:04.840 you know. Hillbilly Katz they were the post World War 1:36:04.840 --> 1:36:09.960 two generation of GI's right that occupied remember Elvis's great 1:36:10.000 --> 1:36:13.679 song out of g I blues occupation GI blues right, 1:36:14.280 --> 1:36:17.559 meaning it was his occupation. But they were occupying those 1:36:17.680 --> 1:36:21.120 places that were conquered, right. So that's what my dad was. 1:36:21.600 --> 1:36:25.680 And Johnny Cash and he they turned out that they 1:36:25.680 --> 1:36:27.600 were standing there and I introduced it, Dad, this is 1:36:28.280 --> 1:36:31.639 mister Cash, and Johnny this is my dad, and I said, 1:36:31.680 --> 1:36:33.880 I think you guys might have been here, and they 1:36:33.920 --> 1:36:37.839 turned out they were in Germany, stationed forty miles apart, 1:36:38.439 --> 1:36:40.920 same years, and they hit it, you know, they were like, 1:36:41.000 --> 1:36:43.599 oh yeah, but Johnny was in the Air Force, Dad, 1:36:43.680 --> 1:36:46.400 My dad was in the Army, and so that was 1:36:46.439 --> 1:36:49.200 a great moment to share with him, to watch him 1:36:49.640 --> 1:36:53.759 somebody who he really you know, idolized and had those records, 1:36:53.800 --> 1:36:57.479 those early Cash records, that stuff, and that's who he was, 1:36:57.640 --> 1:37:02.320 you know, those guys Cash Dad, you know Cash out 1:37:02.320 --> 1:37:05.840 of Arkansas and it's you know, Johnny Cash. And reading 1:37:05.840 --> 1:37:08.800 his biography, you know he was a code breaker in 1:37:08.840 --> 1:37:12.200 the Air Force. He listened to Russian code and was 1:37:12.200 --> 1:37:14.720 a listener and that what is what is? But he 1:37:14.800 --> 1:37:18.280 wrote walked the line. They still had to pull sentry duty. 1:37:18.800 --> 1:37:20.240 He I don't know if you ever read this, but 1:37:20.320 --> 1:37:24.120 he wrote that song about pulling sentry duty on the 1:37:24.120 --> 1:37:27.920 flight line at the airbase in Germany, as I keep 1:37:27.960 --> 1:37:32.040 a close watch on this heart of mine, right, brilliant. Huh, 1:37:32.080 --> 1:37:36.040 how genius is that art? You're pulling guard duty. That's 1:37:36.040 --> 1:37:39.320 a difference in a guy who's a poet and the 1:37:39.360 --> 1:37:42.040 guy who just turned the wrench and going I just 1:37:42.080 --> 1:37:45.200 got to get out of here, you know. John Johnny 1:37:45.200 --> 1:37:48.200 writes that I walked the line out of pulling guard duty, 1:37:48.479 --> 1:37:50.559 but it was an interesting moment for that and then 1:37:50.600 --> 1:37:54.479 and so yeah, wow, we've talked so much. I've never 1:37:54.520 --> 1:37:56.280 talked this much about my dad with anybody. 1:37:56.760 --> 1:38:07.880 You know, Bob, did you know from a young age 1:38:08.240 --> 1:38:11.640 you were somebody special and you were destined for a 1:38:11.640 --> 1:38:14.400 different outcome from than your dad and your relatives? 1:38:15.120 --> 1:38:18.479 Well, like I said, there's probably enough narcissism in me, 1:38:18.680 --> 1:38:20.960 and it's just don't you come in with that. And 1:38:21.280 --> 1:38:25.960 maybe you know, but firstborn, you know, you're kind of 1:38:26.240 --> 1:38:31.120 treated like you're expected to be the shining star, but 1:38:31.560 --> 1:38:34.960 you're also treated differently. You know, I've got a little 1:38:35.200 --> 1:38:38.360 guy at this point, in my life. She know, I 1:38:38.360 --> 1:38:40.360 thought that train left the station a long time ago. 1:38:40.400 --> 1:38:43.320 It did not. We've got a little guy coming up 1:38:43.360 --> 1:38:46.360 on three years old. Dalton and I watched and there's 1:38:46.400 --> 1:38:48.880 a and I said, I said, he's kind of precocious. 1:38:48.920 --> 1:38:53.000 You know, there's something about because firstborn's talk to more, 1:38:53.320 --> 1:38:56.280 you know, and she and I and are you know, 1:38:56.960 --> 1:38:59.960 I mean, I'm, you know, a bit older than my wife, 1:39:00.080 --> 1:39:02.880 you know, and thank god that she's you know, still 1:39:02.880 --> 1:39:07.600 got her youth on her side with him. But the 1:39:08.840 --> 1:39:11.559 beauty of it is that we've never either of us. 1:39:12.040 --> 1:39:13.680 I think we just talked to him like he's an 1:39:13.720 --> 1:39:16.360 adult from the time he was born, just kind of 1:39:16.400 --> 1:39:20.160 expecting and and my mother expected a lot, you know. 1:39:20.720 --> 1:39:25.439 And I think I carry with my mom. I had 1:39:25.439 --> 1:39:27.720 to get rid of some of it because it's it's 1:39:27.920 --> 1:39:31.320 it's packweights. You can't carry up that mountain, you know, 1:39:31.320 --> 1:39:34.120 if you're going to climb, you have to be able 1:39:34.160 --> 1:39:36.080 to shed it at some point. And I know when 1:39:36.120 --> 1:39:39.559 had happened. It kind of happened in stages. But one 1:39:39.600 --> 1:39:41.240 of the moments was right before I left to come 1:39:41.280 --> 1:39:43.800 to California. You know, I just had a moment where 1:39:43.840 --> 1:39:46.840 we she and I had and my dad couldn't. He 1:39:47.000 --> 1:39:49.640 never got in between my mother and I, and I 1:39:49.720 --> 1:39:52.880 think it's because he felt we had a bond that 1:39:53.040 --> 1:39:57.519 was unique and different, because she spent almost her entire 1:39:57.600 --> 1:40:00.479 pregnancy alone with me, and we were down you know, 1:40:00.880 --> 1:40:04.120 my grand her parents, and then the first nine months 1:40:04.160 --> 1:40:06.200 of my life, he wasn't here right and he wasn't 1:40:06.520 --> 1:40:10.920 with us. So I think he always left the two 1:40:11.000 --> 1:40:13.640 of us, my brother, not his movies. He was, you 1:40:13.720 --> 1:40:17.320 know there, you know, handed my brother and my sister 1:40:17.920 --> 1:40:20.320 and my sister and dad had a very special relationship 1:40:20.360 --> 1:40:24.120 with it, you know, unique and and her you know, 1:40:25.160 --> 1:40:27.600 she was this little girl, you know, and you know, 1:40:28.000 --> 1:40:32.040 and uh uh, I think the connection to his own 1:40:32.120 --> 1:40:35.360 mother was was my sister, you know, and and who 1:40:35.439 --> 1:40:37.559 he dearly loved, you know. And he used to say 1:40:37.600 --> 1:40:40.040 that about his mom as much as his dad was 1:40:40.160 --> 1:40:42.760 rough on the three of them. He said, but we 1:40:42.960 --> 1:40:47.800 knew we were mom, mom, mother, your grandmother, Helen. She 1:40:48.160 --> 1:40:50.840 never let us go to bed, not thinking we were loved. 1:40:51.360 --> 1:40:56.600 And I said, well, good deal, good deal, you know, 1:40:56.760 --> 1:41:04.120 so I'm in the through line. Uh was that for 1:41:04.360 --> 1:41:06.479 us as kids? You know, we didn't have a lot 1:41:06.680 --> 1:41:08.400 you know, and they were struggling, you know, week to 1:41:08.479 --> 1:41:12.519 week paycheck people, and uh, you know, we had had 1:41:12.560 --> 1:41:14.720 a double aunt and uncle. My dad's older brother was 1:41:14.760 --> 1:41:17.800 married to my mom's older sister. That's how they met. Wow, 1:41:17.920 --> 1:41:20.719 they almost became surrogate parents, for they lived very close 1:41:20.760 --> 1:41:23.400 and they were both they never had kids, and so 1:41:23.640 --> 1:41:26.920 we were there with them, very close to them. My 1:41:27.080 --> 1:41:29.759 dad's brother was Larry, and my mom's sister was Margaret, 1:41:30.400 --> 1:41:34.320 and she was about eight years old my mom and uh, 1:41:35.160 --> 1:41:38.640 his brother Larry was six years old. I think that 1:41:38.760 --> 1:41:42.400 my dad are five maybe five, but enough that there 1:41:42.479 --> 1:41:44.000 was a gap and it was this you know, so 1:41:44.439 --> 1:41:46.479 that was interesting the perspective there and you know this 1:41:46.680 --> 1:41:52.599 is unique. And but this back to the car ride 1:41:52.760 --> 1:41:56.160 and the threat of death. You know, there was two 1:41:56.240 --> 1:41:59.320 times in that same buick that that that Electra two 1:41:59.400 --> 1:42:03.439 twenty five convertible and funny what year was it? As 1:42:03.479 --> 1:42:06.280 a sixty five? A cool look at me white, I'm 1:42:06.280 --> 1:42:09.519 white on white? Right? My aunt had to talk about 1:42:09.560 --> 1:42:12.320 something that would be worth a lot today. My oh yeah, 1:42:12.520 --> 1:42:15.360 my aunt had a black on black on black and 1:42:17.360 --> 1:42:19.479 and then my uncle got this white on white on 1:42:19.640 --> 1:42:22.360 white when they went this pair of these and then 1:42:22.720 --> 1:42:25.560 they graduated. As I wrote, that's why my you know, 1:42:25.680 --> 1:42:30.280 the guitars, Cadillac's reference the album title and my original 1:42:30.360 --> 1:42:33.839 that that second hit that I ever had about the culture, 1:42:35.360 --> 1:42:37.879 the Hillblo culture. You made it if you had a Cadillac, 1:42:38.280 --> 1:42:40.120 you know, and a lot of American culture. You had 1:42:40.240 --> 1:42:43.960 made it if you oh where I was absolutely with 1:42:44.320 --> 1:42:46.800 the Goombas and everybody. If you had a Cadillac, man 1:42:46.880 --> 1:42:49.120 that was you know, Rolls Royce. We don't know nothing 1:42:49.120 --> 1:42:52.280 about it, but if you had. So they graduated to 1:42:52.400 --> 1:42:54.639 the first Cadillact they ever bought was a sixty nine. 1:42:54.720 --> 1:42:57.880 That's when my mother inherited, you know, the the deuce 1:42:57.920 --> 1:43:00.560 in a quarter. So she was driving. We were in 1:43:00.680 --> 1:43:02.880 that and we had this cat that we had no 1:43:03.000 --> 1:43:07.200 business having cats anyway. We had the cat for about 1:43:07.640 --> 1:43:10.080 I don't know, nine months a year and they decided, okay, 1:43:10.120 --> 1:43:11.360 we're going to take it down and give it to 1:43:11.920 --> 1:43:15.000 you know, mother and daddy. They'll they'll, you know, they'll 1:43:15.160 --> 1:43:17.960 like this cat. We were taking it to Kentucky to 1:43:18.040 --> 1:43:22.360 the hills, right and my brother, my dad was put 1:43:22.400 --> 1:43:24.439 the cat. Well, they had it in a box they 1:43:24.720 --> 1:43:26.960 put so he would sleep you know, and he didn't 1:43:27.000 --> 1:43:29.040 put in a trunk with the whole air. You know. 1:43:29.960 --> 1:43:34.080 It was invented like a like a homemade kennel. And 1:43:34.200 --> 1:43:37.160 my brother insisted on Topper being in the car with 1:43:37.280 --> 1:43:39.000 him in the back seat with my sister brother in 1:43:39.040 --> 1:43:42.719 I right, And that thing was cool. It had stereo, 1:43:43.600 --> 1:43:47.880 but it didn't have air conditioning. Sixty file is still another. Yeah, 1:43:47.880 --> 1:43:51.000 it was a convertible, a luxury car, that particular one, 1:43:51.160 --> 1:43:53.840 the black one had air, but this one didn't have air. 1:43:53.920 --> 1:43:57.200 And my uncle actually had an after remember those aftermarket 1:43:57.240 --> 1:43:59.000 air conditionings. They would sit on the floor. 1:43:59.200 --> 1:44:01.560 We had one in a sixty four olds will be on. 1:44:01.680 --> 1:44:03.840 Yeah, they would put him in afterward. Right, the big 1:44:04.040 --> 1:44:07.679 bobsolutely look like a microwave ove and dinner with events, 1:44:07.760 --> 1:44:12.120 you know. And reverb units. My old man bought a 1:44:12.400 --> 1:44:16.800 JC Whitney catalog reverb unit. Of course under the dash. 1:44:17.200 --> 1:44:20.120 It's like it's just a reverb spring. Why would you 1:44:20.240 --> 1:44:22.080 have it on the radio. But it had this the 1:44:22.240 --> 1:44:25.559 front speaker and the one in the convertible the deck, 1:44:25.720 --> 1:44:27.680 you know, the back seat, right, and you could have 1:44:27.760 --> 1:44:31.719 those two because I remember listening to such great music 1:44:31.880 --> 1:44:34.160 in that car and all He had a sixty four 1:44:34.400 --> 1:44:39.560 Ford Galaxy convertible aqua blue with a white top with 1:44:39.760 --> 1:44:42.599 the first glass back window I ever saw in a convertible, 1:44:42.640 --> 1:44:44.519 And most of them were plastic up there, and it 1:44:44.600 --> 1:44:46.639 came glass and it would split when they would put 1:44:46.680 --> 1:44:47.280 the top down. 1:44:47.360 --> 1:44:47.559 Yeah. 1:44:47.640 --> 1:44:51.040 Yeah, that's sixty four Ford fair Lane five hundred. And 1:44:51.160 --> 1:44:55.320 then she had that Electra and and he was another thing. 1:44:55.360 --> 1:44:58.600 He was like, you know, Jack, these cars, all the 1:44:58.640 --> 1:45:00.760 hot riders had him raise right in the back with 1:45:00.840 --> 1:45:04.360 the big wide old tires, and he said, you ain't 1:45:04.400 --> 1:45:07.519 gonna raise nothing on the old NASCAR. And he's the 1:45:07.560 --> 1:45:11.240 boot layer, and he said, we would put weight that 1:45:11.520 --> 1:45:13.280 back end to keep it on, you know, in the 1:45:13.360 --> 1:45:16.880 trunk his cards. They were riding like this right on 1:45:17.000 --> 1:45:20.120 the angle I'm doing like we're on TV, but you 1:45:20.200 --> 1:45:22.640 and I are look but on that angle anyway, with 1:45:22.720 --> 1:45:25.960 fenderskirts and all that. So we got this cat topper. 1:45:26.080 --> 1:45:29.240 My brother argued wanted him in the back seat, so 1:45:29.360 --> 1:45:32.080 I watched. He said, he said, you can't open that 1:45:32.320 --> 1:45:35.320 box that cat, you know, leave leave them in there. 1:45:36.240 --> 1:45:40.639 Well we weren't. We were fifteen miles from the house 1:45:41.320 --> 1:45:44.280 doing a clover leave to get on the route twenty 1:45:44.400 --> 1:45:48.040 three and my brother reached down popped it open to 1:45:48.240 --> 1:45:50.639 check on him. You know, my brother was always also 1:45:50.800 --> 1:45:54.599 very mechanically inclined, had tools. They would drive my dad 1:45:54.680 --> 1:45:57.200 crazy with his tools stuff being missing, and my brother 1:45:57.240 --> 1:45:59.320 would be out there in the garage with him. I 1:45:59.479 --> 1:46:01.000 wasn't I was up in the room of the guitar 1:46:01.600 --> 1:46:05.439 and my brother had to look. And the cat came 1:46:05.479 --> 1:46:09.360 out of there straight up, hit the ceiling, ricocheted across. 1:46:09.400 --> 1:46:13.320 It was nuts, you know, was like wow, it went 1:46:13.400 --> 1:46:16.920 across the ceiling into the My dad tried to stop 1:46:17.000 --> 1:46:20.400 it and pin it. Now we're doing seventy miles an hour, 1:46:20.640 --> 1:46:23.240 you know, it's pre fifty five. You know, it's like, 1:46:23.479 --> 1:46:26.120 you know, the speed limits sixty five there, and people 1:46:26.160 --> 1:46:29.040 were driving seventy seventy five and eighty on the inn 1:46:29.240 --> 1:46:32.280 on the highway, and he's coming round that cliffer and 1:46:32.360 --> 1:46:34.880 the cat went crazy because we're doing a circle and 1:46:34.960 --> 1:46:37.400 that's the little cat, and he hit the front windshield 1:46:37.439 --> 1:46:40.839 and went across, hit my mom's side of the windshield, 1:46:40.840 --> 1:46:44.120 went back and hit past the three of us, and 1:46:44.280 --> 1:46:46.599 came back up and hit my dad and lent bit 1:46:46.720 --> 1:46:49.000 him in the neck. Scratched him across the face all 1:46:49.080 --> 1:46:52.240 the drum and I remember my dad, my dad. All 1:46:52.320 --> 1:46:54.640 he did was pin him with that big arm and 1:46:54.720 --> 1:46:57.960 he grabbed it and went bam on the dash, hit 1:46:58.000 --> 1:47:02.519 the windshield, pinned him. He goes, I'm good, My mother said, David. 1:47:02.720 --> 1:47:05.400 David slowed to kill us. He goes, I'm get in 1:47:05.479 --> 1:47:08.320 his car. Off the road, and he pulled over off. 1:47:08.439 --> 1:47:10.000 He got off the clover and got down to the 1:47:10.520 --> 1:47:12.720 and he grabbed that cat and had him by the 1:47:13.000 --> 1:47:16.920 and his cat flip, jumped out of the car, went 1:47:17.040 --> 1:47:20.160 back out, got the cat, threw him in the cat tails. 1:47:20.200 --> 1:47:22.800 There were cattails growing in the you know, against the 1:47:22.880 --> 1:47:25.439 side of the road, down the medium, and threw him 1:47:25.479 --> 1:47:28.760 into that and let the cat was out there by 1:47:28.840 --> 1:47:30.920 that point because he had strangled him out, you know, 1:47:31.000 --> 1:47:33.040 get him out of the car and he had a cut, 1:47:34.280 --> 1:47:36.880 I mean he was and so he put him back 1:47:37.000 --> 1:47:39.519 one after they both coughed it out for a minute 1:47:39.600 --> 1:47:42.160 or two, he put the cat and back in the box, 1:47:42.200 --> 1:47:43.720 said bring me in that box and put him in 1:47:43.760 --> 1:47:45.360 a trunk and we drove him on that and he 1:47:45.520 --> 1:47:48.439 lived with him for the next ten or twelve years. 1:47:48.479 --> 1:47:50.880 That cat was still down there. And how he made 1:47:50.920 --> 1:47:53.880 it he because he cause he stayed outside, but would 1:47:53.880 --> 1:47:56.599 come and sit in there kitchen window on an old tree, 1:47:57.400 --> 1:47:59.439 uh and stare in at him, and they'd go out 1:47:59.479 --> 1:48:02.519 and feed him. There was a topper anyway, you were 1:48:02.520 --> 1:48:03.120 talking about. 1:48:02.920 --> 1:48:06.439 Your cat, my younger sisters. The cat went away for 1:48:06.560 --> 1:48:12.439 two and a half years and came back, really lived 1:48:12.520 --> 1:48:13.280 outside of him. 1:48:13.280 --> 1:48:15.840 What was going on there? Because coyotes to get him 1:48:15.840 --> 1:48:17.640 out here. You aren't going to live beyond you know, 1:48:17.880 --> 1:48:20.000 cats are you know in jeopardy all. 1:48:20.160 --> 1:48:22.800 Somebody else obviously adopted him and then didn't feed him, 1:48:23.280 --> 1:48:24.960 and then he came back to your house. 1:48:25.600 --> 1:48:28.599 Cats and strange creatures. Kinky Friedman. I don't know if 1:48:28.600 --> 1:48:31.360 you've read any of his the kind of fictional little 1:48:31.400 --> 1:48:34.120 pulp fiction things that he wrote, kind of pretty funny, 1:48:34.320 --> 1:48:37.400 pretty funny stuff. And his whole cat routine is his 1:48:37.920 --> 1:48:39.920 affection to his cats. He still has a lot of 1:48:40.120 --> 1:48:43.519 cats in it. And uh, you know, I was never 1:48:43.600 --> 1:48:46.120 a cat guy. I you know, kind of a dog. 1:48:46.560 --> 1:48:49.120 Bunch of an animal guy. But why are you Dwight? 1:48:50.520 --> 1:48:53.519 My mother just loved the name people assumed, and I'm 1:48:53.600 --> 1:48:56.519 Dwight David, which was worse because everybody's like, oh, you 1:48:56.680 --> 1:48:59.160 named It was like, no, my dad's name's David. So 1:48:59.320 --> 1:49:02.320 she wanted to get you know, without making me a junior, 1:49:02.360 --> 1:49:06.960 which I appreciated that, but uh, Dwight. She just liked, 1:49:07.320 --> 1:49:09.519 you know, she just liked the name, and it was 1:49:10.000 --> 1:49:13.680 it'd been not commonplace at that point, you know, and 1:49:14.040 --> 1:49:18.559 Eisenhower was president. But but uh uh. And then my uncle, 1:49:18.680 --> 1:49:20.840 her brother, the only boy in the six of them, 1:49:21.479 --> 1:49:25.720 he was was he three years older than Yeah, I 1:49:25.720 --> 1:49:28.120 think he's three years older than my mother. They were 1:49:28.240 --> 1:49:31.120 very close. Guy Walton, my granddad always called him peanut. 1:49:31.200 --> 1:49:33.840 He's a you know, old peanut. He's a pankerdons man. 1:49:34.520 --> 1:49:36.880 He used to look at a peanut he goes. My 1:49:37.000 --> 1:49:41.040 mom said, that's guy old grandfather. Daddy just always calls 1:49:41.080 --> 1:49:43.679 him peanut. And they were both My granddad was about 1:49:43.680 --> 1:49:47.439 six one or so, like he just just looks like 1:49:47.680 --> 1:49:51.599 what those mountain men were. And uh and my uncle 1:49:51.680 --> 1:49:54.400 was about six two is calling him peanut. This was 1:49:54.439 --> 1:49:57.640 always beyond me, but you know, as a kid and 1:49:58.000 --> 1:50:01.880 uh uh, he would walk up. He was a good 1:50:01.960 --> 1:50:05.400 basketball player and he taught me how to balance it 1:50:05.479 --> 1:50:07.639 on the tip of my finger, you know, spin the basketball, 1:50:07.680 --> 1:50:11.599 and he he never would quit call me Ike. Ike 1:50:11.640 --> 1:50:15.680 had nothing to do with Dwight's first name, right Ike, 1:50:16.080 --> 1:50:20.479 And my mom said, yeah, he just like how you doing? 1:50:21.360 --> 1:50:24.080 And book. My middle name was David from my dad 1:50:24.360 --> 1:50:29.599 and uh, and we gave Dalton our little guy. One 1:50:29.600 --> 1:50:31.479 of my great regrets is that he didn't get to 1:50:31.560 --> 1:50:34.320 meet him. Uh. His middle name is Lauren and my 1:50:34.400 --> 1:50:38.280 dad's middle name was Lauren. And uh, you know, so 1:50:38.560 --> 1:50:40.840 there's a so what have you learned? 1:50:41.120 --> 1:50:42.639 What have you learned from being a dad? 1:50:44.400 --> 1:50:54.280 Uh? Hopefully and measured amounts some selflessness, uh, some willingness 1:50:54.360 --> 1:50:59.920 to impatience. And I'm still learning. So I'm learning every day. 1:51:01.040 --> 1:51:05.479 But uh, I've learned love in a whole new way. 1:51:05.840 --> 1:51:06.000 You know. 1:51:06.760 --> 1:51:11.479 That's the thing that I think. I really I shuddered 1:51:11.520 --> 1:51:13.639 to think that I could have gone on through finished 1:51:13.880 --> 1:51:17.000 life and not experienced it. Now that I have it, 1:51:17.160 --> 1:51:21.519 you know that that you know, it's a I wrote 1:51:21.520 --> 1:51:23.000 a song. It's going to be on this new album. 1:51:23.040 --> 1:51:27.200 That'll that won two things with him in mind. One, 1:51:27.280 --> 1:51:29.120 he came into me because he's fasting with the guitar. 1:51:29.120 --> 1:51:31.479 Gphty makes me pulled out and he's got a little 1:51:32.200 --> 1:51:34.800 finder makes a Yuku lele version of the telecaster, and 1:51:34.880 --> 1:51:36.920 he's had it since he's done. He's been on the 1:51:36.960 --> 1:51:39.200 side of the stage for like sixty shows over the 1:51:39.280 --> 1:51:41.640 last year and a half or two of mine. And 1:51:42.520 --> 1:51:47.560 it's been interesting to watch and his his kind of 1:51:47.640 --> 1:51:56.280 almost eerie understanding of the me of both of us, 1:51:56.360 --> 1:51:59.960 my wife Emily and his mom and me. And it's 1:52:00.160 --> 1:52:02.760 interesting because he's born to you know parents. I mean, 1:52:02.840 --> 1:52:08.680 she was thirty seven, I'm I'm so much older. And 1:52:09.120 --> 1:52:11.400 it's an interesting dynamic to watch him, you know. And 1:52:11.560 --> 1:52:14.960 and uh, but love, love is you know, the thing 1:52:15.960 --> 1:52:18.679 I've learned, you know, at a different level. 1:52:19.360 --> 1:52:21.920 You know, what about if you want to do one 1:52:22.040 --> 1:52:26.320 thing and the kid wants attention, I need to. 1:52:26.360 --> 1:52:29.439 Learn to give over. It's tough when you've been as 1:52:29.520 --> 1:52:32.639 solo as I've been for as long as as much 1:52:32.680 --> 1:52:35.800 as I love him, I have to remind myself, no, 1:52:37.240 --> 1:52:40.639 I owe him my attention. I owe him my attention 1:52:40.800 --> 1:52:45.160 because he needs it. You know, there's there's a need, 1:52:45.360 --> 1:52:53.800 you know. And anyway, yeah, so, but did you plan 1:52:54.000 --> 1:52:56.080 to have him or did you just well, we wanted, 1:52:56.240 --> 1:53:02.760 we wanted to and we didn't know we were, Yes, 1:53:03.120 --> 1:53:06.760 it was it was with you know, willingness that we did. 1:53:06.960 --> 1:53:11.960 You know that we uh, but enough, we didn't need help, 1:53:12.760 --> 1:53:15.439 just our own encouragement. And here he came. 1:53:15.600 --> 1:53:18.040 And then what about a second you were mentioning, Oh, 1:53:18.120 --> 1:53:18.639 I don't. 1:53:18.479 --> 1:53:24.640 Know, maybe I don't know, you know, but you know, 1:53:24.800 --> 1:53:26.400 I think I think it would stop there. I don't 1:53:26.400 --> 1:53:28.519 think I'll have a middle and they have the oldest 1:53:28.560 --> 1:53:29.080 and a younger. 1:53:29.320 --> 1:53:32.400 You know, they need each other for when you're gone 1:53:32.479 --> 1:53:33.800 or when you're in your old Well. 1:53:33.720 --> 1:53:35.880 I see that. I think so because I had and 1:53:36.000 --> 1:53:38.560 I see it. And of course my wife twelve, you know, 1:53:38.720 --> 1:53:42.479 she just doesn't know how you have only kids. Only 1:53:42.600 --> 1:53:48.840 kids I've known you know somew you know, uh and 1:53:49.000 --> 1:53:50.679 oldest kids and only kids get along. 1:53:50.880 --> 1:53:51.040 You know. 1:53:51.240 --> 1:53:54.320 Only kids tend to be very adult, you know, because 1:53:54.320 --> 1:53:56.280 they deal in an adult world in a different way 1:53:56.360 --> 1:53:58.640 than you know, those of us that had, you know, 1:53:58.680 --> 1:54:01.080 the siblings to fight and all with and you know, 1:54:01.200 --> 1:54:05.439 and engage in any kind of you know, endie or 1:54:05.560 --> 1:54:07.280 jealousy with you know all that. 1:54:07.600 --> 1:54:11.360 But ah, it's just yeah, okay, let's go back. 1:54:13.400 --> 1:54:16.400 Life's what goes on when you're making other plans. 1:54:18.560 --> 1:54:21.840 Yeah, but now it's a little bit different when your 1:54:21.960 --> 1:54:23.280 time is totally your own. 1:54:24.960 --> 1:54:26.760 You know, once you have a kid. 1:54:26.880 --> 1:54:30.639 I don't have any kids, so they say that you're 1:54:30.680 --> 1:54:33.600 a kid yourself your whole life if you don't have 1:54:33.680 --> 1:54:34.160 any kids. 1:54:34.240 --> 1:54:36.400 Well that's what it feels like now when I think 1:54:36.520 --> 1:54:39.800 back that I got away from being a kid. I pay. 1:54:39.960 --> 1:54:42.000 But now the choices are different. I mean, if you 1:54:42.080 --> 1:54:45.120 have a kid, you can say, well, you know, we're 1:54:45.280 --> 1:54:48.360 just animals. We're here to reproduce. This is what it's 1:54:48.400 --> 1:54:51.800 all about. When you don't have a kid, your choices 1:54:51.880 --> 1:54:54.240 are more important, like, well, this has got to count. 1:54:54.320 --> 1:54:56.400 I mean, some people are drifting. I don't want to 1:54:56.480 --> 1:54:59.240 judge them, but myself it's like, well, you know, I 1:54:59.280 --> 1:55:01.600 didn't invest in kid, I didn't invest in family, so 1:55:01.800 --> 1:55:05.440 my career think it's got to work because I didn't sacrifice, 1:55:05.600 --> 1:55:05.760 you know. 1:55:07.680 --> 1:55:13.120 Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic. And and uh, I love 1:55:13.200 --> 1:55:15.760 my wife even more than I loved her because she 1:55:16.840 --> 1:55:19.520 because of her, she gave me this. You know, it's 1:55:19.600 --> 1:55:24.720 just a very very unique gift that Emily brought to 1:55:24.840 --> 1:55:34.000 my life. Uh and uh, yeah, she never thought anything 1:55:34.120 --> 1:55:37.600 different than that. You know, we were we should have 1:55:37.640 --> 1:55:42.640 a child. And I was never opposed to having kids, 1:55:42.680 --> 1:55:45.560 and I always thought but again, my plan was, well, 1:55:45.600 --> 1:55:49.160 when I'm really feeling that I've got it, you know, 1:55:49.360 --> 1:55:51.920 handle and everything's in order, and you know, I've got 1:55:52.040 --> 1:55:54.800 this and that, and then you look around one day 1:55:54.800 --> 1:55:59.000 and you're like that ships sail, I guess I don't 1:55:59.080 --> 1:56:01.680 think that, you know, my life is good. And then 1:56:01.760 --> 1:56:06.680 it didn't, you know, you know, another another another horn 1:56:06.800 --> 1:56:09.400 was heard coming across the horizon of the of the 1:56:10.480 --> 1:56:13.320 you know, the ocean there and here he is. So 1:56:14.160 --> 1:56:17.880 it's it's but this is your this is your old 1:56:18.080 --> 1:56:22.080 married man. Right again, I didn't I didn't marry this 1:56:22.240 --> 1:56:22.920 one different. 1:56:25.240 --> 1:56:26.880 I've been married once before. I've been living with my 1:56:26.880 --> 1:56:33.680 girlfriend now, I mean you and only been married once before? 1:56:33.760 --> 1:56:39.800 Now, I just I just uh again, you know, had this. 1:56:41.360 --> 1:56:43.880 My parents divorced, but it was after we were all 1:56:44.160 --> 1:56:46.920 three grown. It is an interesting dynamic and they were 1:56:46.960 --> 1:56:49.640 together that long and and it was tough on them. 1:56:49.680 --> 1:56:51.480 I think it was tough with my aunt and uncle, 1:56:51.720 --> 1:56:54.520 you know, the older brother and said they never divorced, 1:56:55.200 --> 1:57:00.240 you know, and uh uh yeah, and so so I 1:57:00.440 --> 1:57:07.560 probably felt apprehensive about it, you know, and I just avoided. 1:57:07.920 --> 1:57:11.240 I just I also knew that I didn't want a 1:57:11.320 --> 1:57:16.000 marriage where I wouldn't be able to uphold the integrity 1:57:16.120 --> 1:57:21.160 of the of the promise, you know. You know, by 1:57:21.200 --> 1:57:23.640 the time I really started to have any success success, 1:57:23.680 --> 1:57:26.440 I was thirty. I was twenty nine when I signed 1:57:26.480 --> 1:57:29.560 with Warner and re released the EP that had been 1:57:29.600 --> 1:57:32.640 out about eighteen months or so. It was late twenties, 1:57:33.120 --> 1:57:37.000 and I thought, man, I've been broke and single all 1:57:37.080 --> 1:57:39.920 these this decade of my life. Maybe I should be 1:57:40.760 --> 1:57:44.000 not broken single for a while. And then, you know, 1:57:44.240 --> 1:57:46.160 life gets in your way, and you know, like I said, 1:57:46.560 --> 1:57:49.320 the John Lennon quote, you know, that's what happens while 1:57:49.320 --> 1:57:54.440 you're making other plans. And she and I met, we've 1:57:54.480 --> 1:57:59.240 been to we've been together actually for almost ten years 1:58:00.000 --> 1:58:03.400 before we got married. We've been engaged, and I know, 1:58:03.480 --> 1:58:07.760 I knew I wanted to marry her. And but again 1:58:07.840 --> 1:58:13.360 I was, you know, still trying to make things feel complete, 1:58:13.960 --> 1:58:15.880 you know, for lack of a better way to put it, 1:58:16.400 --> 1:58:19.560 you know, with my own just personal life. Believe me, 1:58:19.760 --> 1:58:20.240 I know that. 1:58:20.560 --> 1:58:22.960 I know, when you get married the first time, it's 1:58:23.080 --> 1:58:25.400 like yeah, And then I was a year old enough 1:58:25.480 --> 1:58:27.080 and you're in a position where you realize you never 1:58:27.200 --> 1:58:27.920 feel that no. 1:58:28.080 --> 1:58:29.960 You finally yeah, I tried to give over. 1:58:30.440 --> 1:58:31.840 So how did you and Emily meet? 1:58:33.520 --> 1:58:36.600 We met in Nashville. She was working two three different 1:58:36.680 --> 1:58:41.000 jobs she had left you know. Uh. She was raised 1:58:41.040 --> 1:58:43.280 in Omaha, and she came from one side of the 1:58:43.320 --> 1:58:48.480 family had cattle ranchers outside and well both sides of 1:58:48.520 --> 1:58:51.240 her parents, you know, the Joyce says her name is 1:58:51.240 --> 1:58:55.200 Emily Joyce as her maiden name, and she, uh, she 1:58:56.240 --> 1:58:58.600 grew up there and then went to creyton a on 1:58:58.720 --> 1:59:01.320 a full academic scholar She was a volleyball player and 1:59:01.400 --> 1:59:03.480 was going to own volleyball scholarship in her junior year. 1:59:04.000 --> 1:59:07.440 Right after the season she was a sectional player and 1:59:07.520 --> 1:59:10.240 there was a car accident. A drunk ran a light 1:59:10.360 --> 1:59:12.560 and hit she and a girlfriend. She was in the 1:59:12.600 --> 1:59:16.360 pastor's side, hit her in that side and destroyed a 1:59:16.480 --> 1:59:20.120 rotator cup. I mean, just so it ended the aspirations. 1:59:20.240 --> 1:59:22.520 She would have been a these five eleven. I mean, 1:59:22.560 --> 1:59:24.480 she was on her track to probably go to a 1:59:24.600 --> 1:59:27.800 Big ten school or whatever, and Creighton gave her a 1:59:27.880 --> 1:59:31.360 full ride to do pre med and so she graduated 1:59:31.360 --> 1:59:34.720 a year and she like you. She was a year ahead. 1:59:34.920 --> 1:59:37.160 She had done so much advanced placement and so forth, 1:59:37.880 --> 1:59:40.400 and she burned out finally because you know, she was 1:59:40.520 --> 1:59:44.400 there with family, you know, she was still being made 1:59:44.480 --> 1:59:48.720 to feel responsible, you know, for all those siblings under her, 1:59:48.800 --> 1:59:51.240 you know, the other ten beneath her. There was one 1:59:51.320 --> 1:59:55.160 older brother. They're twelve months apart, Irish twins that I 1:59:55.200 --> 1:59:58.440 think they're referred to as and that close. So her 1:59:58.480 --> 2:00:03.320 older brother and she and she left. She did one 2:00:03.400 --> 2:00:05.600 year pre med. Then she decided she could take getting 2:00:05.640 --> 2:00:08.360 close to patients. She was working in a hospital and 2:00:09.120 --> 2:00:14.320 and and studying, and then she did nursing for two 2:00:14.440 --> 2:00:17.200 more years. She had three years of you know, almost 2:00:17.240 --> 2:00:20.120 a nursing room. She left and went to Nashville, joined 2:00:20.120 --> 2:00:22.400 the circus and thought she'd go back to school there, didn't. 2:00:23.280 --> 2:00:28.400 And we met in a restaurant there, and she was 2:00:28.480 --> 2:00:31.440 working at one of the Cumulus stations there and radio 2:00:31.640 --> 2:00:35.400 like working with a radio group. And and we didn't 2:00:35.440 --> 2:00:39.120 meet in the station, and we kind of stayed in touch, 2:00:39.400 --> 2:00:41.560 you know, both of us were in all with different people. 2:00:41.640 --> 2:00:46.120 And then she traveled out here at one point, just 2:00:46.240 --> 2:00:49.360 on a brief vacation, and we saw each other out 2:00:49.360 --> 2:00:51.400 here and then we began she then she took a 2:00:51.560 --> 2:00:55.160 scholarship again at Mount Saint Mary's University, you know in 2:00:55.240 --> 2:00:58.120 Brentwood on top of the mountain there that'll run by 2:00:58.160 --> 2:01:01.600 the used to be an all girls. Uh, it's a 2:01:01.640 --> 2:01:06.040 Catholic university up there, but she did it. Some years 2:01:06.120 --> 2:01:08.200 later she picked up and then she had moved out 2:01:08.200 --> 2:01:09.920 here and was doing that and we began to date, 2:01:10.080 --> 2:01:15.000 you know that following in and and uh, uh that's 2:01:15.040 --> 2:01:17.440 how we you know, I met and just there was 2:01:17.520 --> 2:01:21.400 some soul connection, you know. At that point she's uh, 2:01:22.360 --> 2:01:25.840 you know, pretty, but it's beyond that. It's it's it was, 2:01:26.040 --> 2:01:33.320 there's beauty. Uh. And her best described by the third party. 2:01:33.400 --> 2:01:35.360 One night, we were coming out of a restaurant and 2:01:36.240 --> 2:01:42.400 and the actor Mira Sorvina's father wanted to forget his 2:01:42.480 --> 2:01:48.000 first name from Goodfellows to all and he just passed 2:01:48.480 --> 2:01:54.600 a year before last. Paul, you know, Paul Sorvino was 2:01:54.680 --> 2:01:56.800 there and he flagged me over and we were talking 2:01:56.840 --> 2:01:58.840 because he was doing a bit of opera here in 2:01:58.920 --> 2:02:01.160 town at the time. He's saying opera if you knew that, 2:02:01.320 --> 2:02:05.040 or the actor Pulserman and there was somebody else, a 2:02:05.120 --> 2:02:07.240 friend with us that was an actress, and she reached 2:02:07.280 --> 2:02:11.160 over for very you know, fused toward him and kind 2:02:11.200 --> 2:02:13.880 of telling him, you know, some things she was doing. 2:02:14.200 --> 2:02:17.120 And he looked across behind me at Emily and he said, 2:02:18.600 --> 2:02:22.400 you you're soulful. And I told her, I said, that's 2:02:22.440 --> 2:02:25.000 the best description I've ever heard of you. You know, 2:02:25.360 --> 2:02:29.160 there is a soulfulness. And so we met and you know, 2:02:30.400 --> 2:02:34.520 fell for each other and in that way, and and 2:02:35.040 --> 2:02:39.920 stayed with it. And I'm not easy, to say the least. 2:02:40.800 --> 2:02:44.000 I'm okay, Well, why are you not easy? 2:02:44.280 --> 2:02:46.720 Just who I am? You know, my nature and my 2:02:47.720 --> 2:02:49.600 my idiosyncratic nature. 2:02:49.800 --> 2:02:51.720 You know, well tell us a little more. 2:02:51.920 --> 2:02:53.680 I don't want to go into it, Bob, because that'd 2:02:53.720 --> 2:02:57.120 be given up too much. I can't tell you you 2:02:57.200 --> 2:03:00.480 already got somebody who was my idiosyncras. I mean, I 2:03:00.640 --> 2:03:05.680 just you know, look, I've lived alone the order of 2:03:05.800 --> 2:03:08.160 my how I'm a neat freak. You know. I keep 2:03:08.280 --> 2:03:11.400 things in, you know, like certain spots and places. 2:03:11.040 --> 2:03:11.760 And and. 2:03:13.520 --> 2:03:19.560 I'm not uh uh, I don't really have a d D. 2:03:20.040 --> 2:03:24.080 But I'm obsessive compulsive. Probably you know, I've got tend 2:03:24.120 --> 2:03:29.880 to Warren zvon. One night Billy Bob Thornton was talking 2:03:29.920 --> 2:03:37.600 about you know, uh O c D. And he said, yeah, 2:03:37.600 --> 2:03:39.760 I've got We were at a restaurant, remember Elsa Leigh 2:03:39.880 --> 2:03:44.760 on the Strip. Uh rest great great food and uh 2:03:46.360 --> 2:03:49.560 he was talking about it one night. Warrens zvone was 2:03:49.600 --> 2:03:51.680 a friend and and and he said, and did you 2:03:51.720 --> 2:03:55.480 ever meet Warren and all your I'm surprised because he 2:03:56.200 --> 2:04:01.280 charming guy and real rye wit obviously and were wolfs 2:04:01.320 --> 2:04:03.840 of London was the you know, the tip of it. 2:04:03.960 --> 2:04:08.040 But but you know Thompson, the headless gunner and all 2:04:08.120 --> 2:04:13.680 you know, you know, excitable boy, all the stuff that 2:04:13.720 --> 2:04:19.600 he wrote, Lawyers, guns and money. You know, We're sitting 2:04:19.640 --> 2:04:22.080 there and I used to say, I knew Warren post graduate. 2:04:22.160 --> 2:04:23.920 You know, he was settled down by the time I 2:04:24.040 --> 2:04:26.280 met him. He was not doing the you know, the 2:04:26.600 --> 2:04:30.080 Peruvian marching powder. That can't he talks about doing it 2:04:30.080 --> 2:04:32.960 anymore because I've heard the stories, he said. So we're 2:04:33.000 --> 2:04:35.960 sitting there and we're Billy's talking about obsessive compulsive you 2:04:36.040 --> 2:04:38.000 know stuff, and he's I got to do this, and 2:04:38.080 --> 2:04:41.200 he goes on and on about obsessive compulsive Billy Bob 2:04:41.240 --> 2:04:43.560 Thornton now disorder and he's very open about it, you know. 2:04:43.640 --> 2:04:47.880 He's like, and Warren's listening and just smiles. That cheshuire 2:04:47.960 --> 2:04:52.520 cat grinned as he's like, that's smiling is He said, 2:04:52.560 --> 2:04:54.120 have you ever had it with guns? 2:04:55.720 --> 2:04:56.800 Like what have you ever had? 2:04:56.840 --> 2:05:02.840 What have you ever had it with guns? And we 2:05:02.960 --> 2:05:06.760 both like right up, like no, I never had it 2:05:06.920 --> 2:05:11.600 was obsessive couples of Warrens like hmm. He just nodded 2:05:11.640 --> 2:05:16.680 at he would like since I know he was guilty 2:05:16.720 --> 2:05:21.400 of doing something up in Santa barber with guns anyway, Uh, 2:05:22.440 --> 2:05:25.360 the same deal when Billy was talking about that at 2:05:25.400 --> 2:05:29.080 the same restaurant and the guy that one of the owners, Paulo, 2:05:29.440 --> 2:05:31.800 who would sit and he was a little pit bowl 2:05:31.880 --> 2:05:34.760 from Tuscany and he but he was like sit there 2:05:34.960 --> 2:05:38.600 and he would smoke a cigarette holding it a lah 2:05:40.080 --> 2:05:44.200 you know MASTRIONI or somebody like, holding it like upside 2:05:44.280 --> 2:05:47.320 down with his index finger and thumb to smoke. He 2:05:47.440 --> 2:05:49.640 was sitting there sideways to Billy and I. He would 2:05:49.680 --> 2:05:52.720 just plots down in anybody's table if he knew if 2:05:52.760 --> 2:05:54.200 you were a regular at all, and he knew you 2:05:54.800 --> 2:05:57.760 and just insert himself in your dinner, you know. And 2:05:58.000 --> 2:06:01.360 so he goes, and Billy was saying, you know, well 2:06:01.680 --> 2:06:04.520 if I if I don't do this four times in 2:06:04.600 --> 2:06:07.360 a row, he'd chop at his thighs with his hands. 2:06:07.960 --> 2:06:09.640 He said. He looked at me and he said, you'll 2:06:09.720 --> 2:06:11.840 die in the way home. Then I said, I'll die 2:06:11.920 --> 2:06:14.560 if you don't do it. Why why die if you 2:06:14.640 --> 2:06:16.640 don't do the obsessive complete He goes, I don't know, 2:06:16.920 --> 2:06:20.720 but that's just how it works. And Pablo Hollow Paulo 2:06:20.920 --> 2:06:23.400 was sitting there with his back to us, half listening. 2:06:23.480 --> 2:06:27.440 He was not realizing Billy's talking about HIMSELFOD He goes, see, 2:06:27.640 --> 2:06:30.680 see he's stuck with a cigarette. See see is maniac? 2:06:30.720 --> 2:06:34.920 Who does this? Is maniac? Who was like, yeah, so 2:06:35.000 --> 2:06:39.080 I'm not you know, I'm not. I'm a little obsessive compulsive, 2:06:39.120 --> 2:06:42.920 I guess, And but I'm not really add because if 2:06:42.960 --> 2:06:45.280 you stay with me long enough, my tangent will come 2:06:45.400 --> 2:06:48.280 back around. I'll figure out Oh yeah, I got that. Yeah, yeah, 2:06:48.320 --> 2:06:50.680 which is that there's a difference some people assume if 2:06:50.680 --> 2:06:53.600 they're only with me for fifteen minutes and I'm add 2:06:53.800 --> 2:06:54.840 it's not that. No. 2:06:55.120 --> 2:06:57.200 That was the shrink when I first started to see 2:06:57.240 --> 2:07:01.040 the shrink. I was in a bad space, and he 2:07:01.120 --> 2:07:04.480 thought that I couldn't track. That's like a big things. No, no, 2:07:04.600 --> 2:07:06.880 that I realized it always comes back to the beginning 2:07:06.920 --> 2:07:07.440 of the story. 2:07:07.680 --> 2:07:10.680 Well, watching reading your writing, that's what was always That's 2:07:10.720 --> 2:07:13.240 where I'd stepped on your train years ago when I started, 2:07:13.360 --> 2:07:16.160 you know, reading the you know the stuff you would 2:07:16.200 --> 2:07:21.000 you know, your letter and uh and I was fascinated 2:07:21.080 --> 2:07:23.520 with and that must make it makes you a great writer, 2:07:23.840 --> 2:07:25.920 you know, the way you can take us on the 2:07:26.080 --> 2:07:29.920 journey and take the tangents and bring it back, you know. 2:07:30.960 --> 2:07:34.200 And so yeah, I'm a little untethered. 2:07:34.840 --> 2:07:37.440 Okay, well let me ask you a different question. The 2:07:37.560 --> 2:07:40.000 limo's there to pick you up, take you to the airport, 2:07:41.480 --> 2:07:45.080 limo pulls away. Do you think you are you concerned 2:07:45.120 --> 2:07:46.320 whether you lock the door or not. 2:07:47.400 --> 2:07:51.920 A little bit. I'm usually so compulsive enough that I've 2:07:51.960 --> 2:07:54.480 done and I have a routine like you know, touch three, 2:07:54.800 --> 2:07:58.840 you know, touch this, I don't do. I'm not I'm 2:07:58.880 --> 2:08:03.800 not quite as extreme. You know, Bill is extremely well, 2:08:03.840 --> 2:08:05.240 you know they can treat that now. 2:08:05.840 --> 2:08:08.560 And I went to a special doctor for it because 2:08:08.640 --> 2:08:10.320 regular talk therapy doesn't work. 2:08:10.680 --> 2:08:12.200 No, no, no, no, I didn't know. 2:08:13.360 --> 2:08:16.040 No, you have to do exposures. I remember. It's like 2:08:16.600 --> 2:08:18.640 there are certain things to be able to let go. 2:08:19.720 --> 2:08:19.880 You know. 2:08:20.000 --> 2:08:22.960 Well, it's like, uh, if you know all the cans 2:08:23.000 --> 2:08:25.240 with poison on them, like don't do this, don't do 2:08:25.360 --> 2:08:29.240 that whatever, they'll scare me. So you work your way, 2:08:29.440 --> 2:08:32.400 you work your way up a ladder, just touching them 2:08:32.440 --> 2:08:34.840 at first. Then you get to the point where you 2:08:35.120 --> 2:08:39.240 use them. So it's it's an interesting thing. I mean, 2:08:39.280 --> 2:08:41.920 it never goes away, but you learn how to cope 2:08:41.960 --> 2:08:43.400 because otherwise it can torture. 2:08:43.680 --> 2:08:45.680 Well with Billy Boba does. That's why I know I 2:08:45.720 --> 2:08:47.840 don't have it as severely because I've been like what 2:08:48.000 --> 2:08:51.880 you're describing, and I'll turn the cans facing away. But 2:08:52.040 --> 2:08:54.320 that's just kind of an aesthetic thing with me. I'm 2:08:54.840 --> 2:08:59.840 I'm really given to do whatever you want. Yeah that's no, okay, 2:09:00.200 --> 2:09:02.200 So I turned the cans. But it's not OCD. It's 2:09:02.240 --> 2:09:06.560 it's aesthetically. It's the aesthetics, but not all. But I 2:09:06.640 --> 2:09:11.560 don't freak out if they're although I will move something 2:09:11.600 --> 2:09:16.200 on the I and I like asymmetry. I you know, 2:09:16.320 --> 2:09:20.640 I like things to be slightly asymmetrical, you know, just 2:09:20.720 --> 2:09:23.120 in a room or you know, on the angle on 2:09:23.240 --> 2:09:26.240 the top of a desk, and and then I but 2:09:26.320 --> 2:09:28.480 I let go, you know, I tend to let go 2:09:28.640 --> 2:09:31.600 of stuff. I mean like, there's certain spots that are 2:09:31.640 --> 2:09:33.360 just a mess. They're going to be a mess until 2:09:33.400 --> 2:09:34.640 I can get around to do it. And I don't. 2:09:35.080 --> 2:09:37.760 I don't, you know, I won't. People often think it's like, 2:09:37.880 --> 2:09:39.800 are you a hoarder. It's like, no, I don't hoard, 2:09:40.280 --> 2:09:42.520 because then they're shocked when I walk in and I 2:09:42.600 --> 2:09:47.000 have the time. I desperately feel like I need the 2:09:47.160 --> 2:09:51.040 time to focus, you know, and and I'll go through 2:09:51.120 --> 2:09:53.400 and when I clean it out, it's gone. It's like, 2:09:53.480 --> 2:09:55.240 get rid of that now, I don't need I haven't 2:09:55.320 --> 2:09:58.760 used that in five years. That is that was a dream, 2:09:59.040 --> 2:10:00.760 you know, I was like I was. I thought it 2:10:00.880 --> 2:10:03.240 was being a boy scout, you know, my holding this 2:10:03.400 --> 2:10:05.040 and this and this and it. So I don't I 2:10:05.120 --> 2:10:06.840 have bits of it. I have bits of it. 2:10:07.080 --> 2:10:09.240 Well, you know, not all the things. You know, you 2:10:09.320 --> 2:10:12.360 can have different characteristics. I do have the hoarding characteristic. 2:10:14.640 --> 2:10:16.560 Progress is it hoarding or just preparing? 2:10:18.440 --> 2:10:22.280 First and foremost? I know where everything is. 2:10:22.960 --> 2:10:25.320 I used to you had to give that up with 2:10:25.480 --> 2:10:27.280 marriage and the child. 2:10:29.160 --> 2:10:33.640 You know, certain things are really hard to throw out anyway. Okay, 2:10:34.080 --> 2:10:34.920 what books? 2:10:35.680 --> 2:10:40.480 Well, books especially I don't want to Well, I mean, 2:10:41.120 --> 2:10:43.000 not only do I have the books that I have, 2:10:43.640 --> 2:10:46.560 I have the books that everybody sends me like, okay, yeah, 2:10:46.600 --> 2:10:51.240 you must get Okay, Rick Rubin, they did that special 2:10:51.640 --> 2:10:55.120 with him on HBO Showtime whatever, and he bought Shangri 2:10:55.240 --> 2:10:58.080 Lass Studios, you know, up in Malibu, and he's got 2:10:58.160 --> 2:11:01.960 a library with all these books. What you learn is 2:11:02.600 --> 2:11:06.640 an incredible percentage of the books I have will never 2:11:06.800 --> 2:11:09.600 be reprinted, and no one else has these. 2:11:11.080 --> 2:11:13.360 So I'm saying, well, when I can reach that level, 2:11:14.520 --> 2:11:17.840 I'll have like the same thing drives my girlfriend nuts 2:11:17.960 --> 2:11:20.560 because in the garage, I got stacks and stacks of 2:11:20.640 --> 2:11:24.160 these books. And then as you get old, the older 2:11:24.200 --> 2:11:27.960 you get, everything becomes meaningless anyway. But it's like, well, 2:11:28.200 --> 2:11:32.160 all my vinyl records, I chose each and every one 2:11:32.200 --> 2:11:36.840 of those. I'm my partner with those. I say, when 2:11:36.920 --> 2:11:39.920 I die, do not throw those away. They're worth tens 2:11:40.000 --> 2:11:42.640 and tens and tens of thousands of dollars, you know, 2:11:42.680 --> 2:11:46.320 because they're meaningless to you know, like my girlfriend. But 2:11:47.120 --> 2:11:49.400 and you know she's like you in the house. It's 2:11:49.520 --> 2:11:52.440 like she likes order. But let me go one step further. 2:11:52.680 --> 2:11:55.000 Do you tend to ruminate on things? 2:11:56.800 --> 2:11:59.800 No, I let go. I will let go. That's that's 2:11:59.840 --> 2:12:01.680 a difference. You know, Like you're getting ready to get 2:12:01.840 --> 2:12:04.640 this at the airport, It's like, uh, and I'll just 2:12:04.800 --> 2:12:07.320 make a plan to avoid it the next time. If 2:12:07.320 --> 2:12:10.360 I've left something, you know, I'll make a you know, 2:12:10.400 --> 2:12:13.600 I'll do something in order of getting out that. 2:12:14.120 --> 2:12:16.600 I will tell you when they go for treatment, they 2:12:16.680 --> 2:12:17.440 get rid of all. 2:12:17.440 --> 2:12:21.000 That which the order of getting out of the rituals. 2:12:20.560 --> 2:12:22.720 You have to be able to lock the door and 2:12:22.880 --> 2:12:26.040 walk away. And the funny thing is you have to 2:12:26.120 --> 2:12:28.640 do everything three times you get to the point where 2:12:28.640 --> 2:12:30.280 you could do it. Because I used to be like you, 2:12:30.640 --> 2:12:33.520 I would hold okay, I'm gonna rush, I'm gonna hold 2:12:33.600 --> 2:12:35.880 the key, and I'm gonna think about it so I 2:12:36.040 --> 2:12:38.520 know that I can remember, well, you got it, do 2:12:38.640 --> 2:12:41.920 it just quickly. You know, this is a whole nother 2:12:42.280 --> 2:12:43.640 avenue to go down. 2:12:44.200 --> 2:12:46.080 I don't have as much of the ritual That's what 2:12:46.160 --> 2:12:49.240 I mean about Billy Bob, and what you're describing. I 2:12:49.360 --> 2:12:51.600 never had the ritual stuff that I had to turn 2:12:51.720 --> 2:12:55.160 three like stand tap tap tap and and turn or something. 2:12:55.760 --> 2:13:00.680 Mine was more pragmatic based, I guess me the function 2:13:01.040 --> 2:13:02.360 actually to some degree. 2:13:02.800 --> 2:13:07.040 Okay, let's go back to the essence. Here Emily comes 2:13:07.080 --> 2:13:10.280 into the house and she moves something. 2:13:10.440 --> 2:13:16.520 Might bug me. She was great though. We had a 2:13:16.600 --> 2:13:20.480 housekeeper a few a couple of housekeepers back that came 2:13:20.560 --> 2:13:25.320 in over and she said, I watched you. We were 2:13:25.400 --> 2:13:27.040 walking her through and I was saying, okay, and this 2:13:27.160 --> 2:13:28.600 and then, but you don't need to move. You can 2:13:28.680 --> 2:13:31.400 dust around like there's a an athmost clock, one of 2:13:31.440 --> 2:13:33.800 those you know brass you know. And I said, but 2:13:34.240 --> 2:13:37.040 in there it's not an angle. It's not straight, okay, 2:13:37.120 --> 2:13:40.480 but for just the aesthetic, I just like it on 2:13:40.480 --> 2:13:42.600 an angle, not because I think I'm gonna if I 2:13:42.680 --> 2:13:44.760 don't do the angle, I'm gonna walk out. And I 2:13:45.000 --> 2:13:48.560 got it, I got it. It's literally what pleases me. 2:13:48.680 --> 2:13:53.360 The energy that almost almost the what's the Japanese the 2:13:53.440 --> 2:13:59.080 you know the way huh feng shui? Yeah, yeah, feng 2:13:59.120 --> 2:14:04.560 shui of that, so that it's almost that maybe of 2:14:04.680 --> 2:14:09.280 what and she watched her go over. I literally said, so, stuffs, 2:14:09.320 --> 2:14:13.240 didn't you just leave? I haven't placed very specifically, just 2:14:13.680 --> 2:14:15.440 because that's where I want it and how I like it. 2:14:15.920 --> 2:14:19.280 And she walked over two minutes after I had said 2:14:19.320 --> 2:14:24.680 that and turned that carck she goes and Emily was like, 2:14:25.360 --> 2:14:28.920 that's not going to go. Well, yes, we hired she 2:14:29.040 --> 2:14:32.040 worked for us for two years, I guess, but there 2:14:32.080 --> 2:14:37.640 were those moments just and because Emily's a shrewd observer 2:14:38.440 --> 2:14:40.480 of you know, she had to learn. You know, she 2:14:40.600 --> 2:14:44.240 had all these kids, she cut the um biblical court on, 2:14:44.760 --> 2:14:48.320 you know, her youngest brother in the hospital, you know, 2:14:48.440 --> 2:14:52.240 with her mom. I mean, she she was made a caretaker. 2:14:52.360 --> 2:14:56.160 So she's had to observe. So she's been an interesting, 2:14:57.280 --> 2:15:02.000 you know, observational you know, a person to have at 2:15:02.080 --> 2:15:03.640 close range of me. 2:15:03.800 --> 2:15:06.920 You know, it's like, well, usually when there's that, when 2:15:06.920 --> 2:15:10.000 there's that many kids, they know how to compromise. Like 2:15:10.080 --> 2:15:13.440 on all the reality shows they say the Mormons, you're 2:15:13.440 --> 2:15:16.400 not supposed to use that word anymore. The Church of 2:15:16.400 --> 2:15:19.280 the Latter day Saints, they say they're really Mormon. 2:15:19.680 --> 2:15:21.600 I didn't get the memo, man. 2:15:22.080 --> 2:15:23.440 Well you're getting it now. 2:15:24.720 --> 2:15:27.440 And why not. Why is Mormon? 2:15:27.680 --> 2:15:30.120 You know, I'm tuned into this only because I lived 2:15:30.160 --> 2:15:33.280 in Utah for two years and that was an experience. 2:15:33.360 --> 2:15:37.200 It's much more cosmopolitan now. But uh, there's a reason 2:15:37.240 --> 2:15:37.920 and I forgot it. 2:15:39.120 --> 2:15:41.640 WHOA, you can't leave me like that. Now, I'm gonna 2:15:41.640 --> 2:15:42.960 have to go look this up. 2:15:43.760 --> 2:15:44.440 I could look it up. 2:15:44.480 --> 2:15:48.040 All we're about Christ of the Latter Day saying LDS, right. 2:15:48.160 --> 2:15:50.520 Right, You could say, hey, they're LDS. 2:15:50.800 --> 2:15:56.000 But at the extremist version of no, no, oh, okay, 2:15:56.520 --> 2:15:57.640 I thought extremists. 2:15:57.960 --> 2:16:01.880 I don't even think there's a specific for the extremists, okay, 2:16:02.320 --> 2:16:04.640 of which I remember when I lived in Utah, we 2:16:04.680 --> 2:16:08.280 would go buy somebody's house where there were six front doors. Said, 2:16:08.280 --> 2:16:09.720 that's where the polygamists lived. 2:16:09.920 --> 2:16:11.440 Yeah. Wow, okay. 2:16:12.000 --> 2:16:15.720 But since she's has to get along with so many people, 2:16:16.760 --> 2:16:19.200 does that make it easier for her to be with you. 2:16:21.160 --> 2:16:25.160 Probably allowed her to put up with me. Yeah yeah, 2:16:25.640 --> 2:16:26.640 probably maybe. 2:16:26.760 --> 2:16:30.440 So Okay, someone like you who's very determined in the mediate. 2:16:30.720 --> 2:16:33.240 Let's say you come home and you say, you know, 2:16:33.760 --> 2:16:36.000 I'm going out to dinner with this person. I'm going 2:16:36.040 --> 2:16:38.200 to to the studio tomorrow, and then I'm going on 2:16:38.240 --> 2:16:41.600 the road for a week. She's gonna say that's fine, 2:16:42.280 --> 2:16:43.640 or why didn't you tell no? 2:16:43.800 --> 2:16:46.040 No, none, no, I mean she and she traveled a 2:16:46.080 --> 2:16:48.200 lot with me. She was shooting a lot of my 2:16:49.280 --> 2:16:52.920 live shows. She started shooting. She had great eyes photographer. 2:16:53.560 --> 2:16:59.080 She finished her undergrad degree. She completely chucked medicine anyway 2:16:59.200 --> 2:17:03.320 in science and ended up doing her undergrad when she 2:17:03.400 --> 2:17:07.199 finished her degree in history and English with a minor 2:17:07.200 --> 2:17:10.560 in English. And and but she had so many credits 2:17:10.560 --> 2:17:13.320 amassed from all of her you know, academic you know, 2:17:13.680 --> 2:17:18.720 uh years that she had to still put in on 2:17:19.000 --> 2:17:21.760 campus there at Mount Saint Mary's. And so she the 2:17:21.879 --> 2:17:26.480 last year studied film photography with a pretty talented you know, 2:17:26.720 --> 2:17:29.920 uh instructor, and she began to develop and you know, 2:17:30.360 --> 2:17:34.039 using film and then transcend transitioned into her digital camera. 2:17:34.120 --> 2:17:38.120 And uh, but you can't teach someone to have a 2:17:38.200 --> 2:17:40.320 good composition, law, you can't, you know what I mean, 2:17:41.080 --> 2:17:43.160 You know you can't teach it. You can't teach speed, 2:17:43.200 --> 2:17:47.160 as the old coach's you know somebody you can coach it, 2:17:47.280 --> 2:17:50.240 But you can't teach people to be fast, right, And 2:17:51.760 --> 2:17:54.200 have you watched that Reggie Jackson documentary by the way, 2:17:55.280 --> 2:17:55.680 I have. 2:17:55.959 --> 2:17:57.840 Not watched it. I'm familiar with what you're telling. 2:17:57.959 --> 2:18:00.600 Yeah, I really did. I was a bit. We were 2:18:01.240 --> 2:18:03.400 out on the road coming back and I but she 2:18:03.680 --> 2:18:06.160 traveled with me. It's it's it's a good watch. It's 2:18:06.160 --> 2:18:10.480 an interesting perspective on him. It's a whole different perspective 2:18:10.520 --> 2:18:12.760 than what you and I probably had because he was 2:18:13.240 --> 2:18:16.000 Reggie Jackson in capital letters right when we you know, 2:18:16.760 --> 2:18:19.400 from the Oakland A's to the But when you hear 2:18:19.680 --> 2:18:22.320 his whole when he tells it now and now, it's 2:18:22.360 --> 2:18:25.200 a little bit, it's just it's it's pretty touching you 2:18:25.280 --> 2:18:28.080 know him, you know, and where he is and and 2:18:28.400 --> 2:18:35.720 uh what he did and how he's anyway, because I 2:18:35.800 --> 2:18:38.880 was a Cincinnati Reds kid, you know, like I hated 2:18:38.920 --> 2:18:41.440 the Orioles, you know, and I didn't like the Dodgers. 2:18:41.520 --> 2:18:44.440 I still, you know, it's tough sometimes. I was at 2:18:44.480 --> 2:18:45.360 the game the other day. 2:18:45.400 --> 2:18:47.320 I saw more people in the music business than I 2:18:47.400 --> 2:18:51.119 do at a concert. But I am not a Dodgers fan. 2:18:51.400 --> 2:18:52.000 Well I was. 2:18:52.160 --> 2:18:54.240 I'm an American League fan, that's just the way. 2:18:54.280 --> 2:18:56.680 Well, I rooted for the Angels and then turned that 2:18:56.800 --> 2:18:59.440 Gene Autry owned him and he took me, you know, 2:18:59.560 --> 2:19:02.879 once my career had succeeded. He had me come down 2:19:02.920 --> 2:19:04.880 and sit in his box one night and he and 2:19:04.920 --> 2:19:06.720 they were playing the Rangers, and I said, you know, 2:19:06.879 --> 2:19:10.560 mister Roubrey, I said, I don't you know. Jean looked 2:19:10.560 --> 2:19:12.360 at me. He said, I said, I don't want to 2:19:12.440 --> 2:19:16.920 offend you, but I'm a huge Nolan Ryan fan. Time. 2:19:16.959 --> 2:19:18.480 I moved out here because I could root for you 2:19:18.600 --> 2:19:21.920 guys and hate the Dodgers. Still the Angels, right, and 2:19:22.000 --> 2:19:25.240 I loved that there were the California Angels, not anaheind angels. 2:19:25.280 --> 2:19:27.840 There were the Californians. So I went to He said, O, 2:19:28.440 --> 2:19:30.600 come on, Nolan loved to meet you. Come on, and 2:19:30.640 --> 2:19:32.240 he was on the bike. He wasn't pitching that day. 2:19:32.280 --> 2:19:35.520 He was down in the clubhouse and he was peddling 2:19:35.680 --> 2:19:38.520 watching the game. You know, Nolan just never get nobody 2:19:38.560 --> 2:19:41.640 will ever break that record, you know, of no hitters. 2:19:42.480 --> 2:19:47.360 But anyway, so I because being a Reds kid, you know, 2:19:49.280 --> 2:19:52.119 the Dodgers, it was always exotic though, because their games 2:19:52.160 --> 2:19:55.760 would come on out of WLW in Cincinnati at like 2:19:55.879 --> 2:19:58.400 eleven at night. You know, we were right and it 2:19:58.520 --> 2:20:01.560 was Dusty in the Palm trees and the Dodgers Stadium 2:20:02.040 --> 2:20:04.240 no place like it. It's one of the most beautiful 2:20:04.280 --> 2:20:06.959 settings ever you know up there. And that old Union 2:20:07.080 --> 2:20:09.840 seventy six gas station used to be in a parking 2:20:09.920 --> 2:20:11.000 lot right out there right. 2:20:11.120 --> 2:20:13.520 Yeah, yeah, I remember that because we didn't have seventy 2:20:13.600 --> 2:20:15.440 six where I grew up, and you had to wait 2:20:15.520 --> 2:20:17.640 till you had to wait till the next morning to 2:20:17.720 --> 2:20:18.600 get the results. 2:20:19.160 --> 2:20:20.840 Yeah, certainly from the West coast. 2:20:21.080 --> 2:20:25.080 Wait, cross was it Crossley Field with the Cincinnati. 2:20:24.640 --> 2:20:27.640 Reds then, Yeah, the Crawsley Field before they built Riverfront 2:20:27.879 --> 2:20:31.120 right by seventy when they became the big red machinery 2:20:31.120 --> 2:20:34.320 in the Riverfront, they were but Pete and Johnny Bench 2:20:34.360 --> 2:20:36.160 and all. And they came out of Crawsley Field because 2:20:36.160 --> 2:20:38.400 they were those guys that were coming up in the 2:20:38.480 --> 2:20:41.840 sixties and the Reds and brought to you a Burger 2:20:41.920 --> 2:20:50.320 beer down on the river anyway, So yeah, I why 2:20:50.360 --> 2:20:52.280 did I talk about the Dodgers and the Reds? 2:20:52.320 --> 2:20:54.080 You well, I remember to have to do with your 2:20:54.080 --> 2:20:56.000 wife and the photography. But I want to go back 2:20:56.080 --> 2:20:59.840 and traveling with me. Okay, I get and we let's 2:21:00.600 --> 2:21:02.240 why did your parents get divorced? 2:21:03.879 --> 2:21:13.120 I I think I think on some levels they were 2:21:13.160 --> 2:21:18.920 ill suited to each other. My mother was had hoped 2:21:19.040 --> 2:21:23.080 for I knew why she fell in love with it, 2:21:23.480 --> 2:21:25.360 you know, and he felt for her. He never quit, 2:21:25.520 --> 2:21:28.360 you know, he he was smitten when he met her, 2:21:28.720 --> 2:21:32.720 you know. But she wasn't prepared. She was a demure 2:21:33.640 --> 2:21:37.080 young girl from southeast you know, in the holler there, 2:21:37.160 --> 2:21:43.520 and just had not been prepared for his voisterous self, 2:21:43.840 --> 2:21:49.840 you know kind of and his nature. And I think 2:21:51.200 --> 2:21:55.800 the fears she lived with that, his Walter midyishness, you know, 2:21:55.959 --> 2:21:58.480 kind of the dreaming and the we're gonna you know 2:21:59.280 --> 2:22:02.120 it finally, you know, kind of got to her to 2:22:02.200 --> 2:22:04.440 the point that she couldn't. And I don't think she 2:22:06.480 --> 2:22:08.000 you know, he he was the one I think that 2:22:08.120 --> 2:22:11.360 suggested it. You know, Okay, well let's we should just 2:22:11.600 --> 2:22:14.880 we should split up. And my sister had gone to 2:22:14.959 --> 2:22:19.600 college and we were I was gone, my brother trying 2:22:19.600 --> 2:22:23.400 to think if he had anyway whatever, I don't think 2:22:23.520 --> 2:22:30.600 was at home, and uh, you know it was never. 2:22:30.720 --> 2:22:32.240 It wasn't a case of either of them, you know, 2:22:32.520 --> 2:22:40.840 one like one cheated and my dad never and uh, disillusionment, 2:22:41.280 --> 2:22:43.880 you know, truly, I think they just you know, and 2:22:45.080 --> 2:22:49.280 they had they had had to really just stay on 2:22:49.600 --> 2:22:52.160 top of it for so long to get us grown 2:22:52.320 --> 2:22:56.320 and you know out and I don't know, but I 2:22:56.400 --> 2:22:59.080 tried to understand, you know, for both of them. It 2:22:59.200 --> 2:23:04.240 was really My mother was really conflicted, you know, because 2:23:04.280 --> 2:23:08.680 she'd been raised to believe, you know, that you didn't divorce, 2:23:09.240 --> 2:23:13.080 and you know, her parents didn't divorce never, and my 2:23:13.760 --> 2:23:18.039 the the closest people to them, his brother, her sister, 2:23:19.160 --> 2:23:21.040 never divorced, you know, to the end of their you know, 2:23:21.320 --> 2:23:28.400 my aunt died preceded my uncle, and uh. And she 2:23:28.480 --> 2:23:30.320 always loved my dad, I mean, you know, to the end. 2:23:30.480 --> 2:23:33.360 You know. You say he was a good man, And 2:23:33.440 --> 2:23:37.600 I said, yeah, I said, you know, and we know 2:23:37.720 --> 2:23:39.720 the bond if you can you imagine your parents were 2:23:39.800 --> 2:23:41.840 together right absolutely. 2:23:41.920 --> 2:23:44.240 You know, I don't come from divorce. If my ex 2:23:44.320 --> 2:23:46.160 wife didn't leave me, i'd still be married. 2:23:46.360 --> 2:23:48.640 Weirdly, it doesn't feel like I came from divorce because 2:23:48.720 --> 2:23:50.920 I was two years out here, you know, I was gone, 2:23:51.240 --> 2:23:52.279 you know, and it happened. 2:23:52.640 --> 2:23:54.400 I have a friend I went to college with went 2:23:54.440 --> 2:23:58.440 through the identical situation, and he still hasn't gotten over 2:23:58.560 --> 2:24:00.879 his parents before to cease now. 2:24:00.840 --> 2:24:02.880 But my sister had the toughest time because she had 2:24:03.080 --> 2:24:07.440 literally just left him and felt somewhat betrayed that she 2:24:07.600 --> 2:24:10.879 went to college and they you know, came back home 2:24:11.040 --> 2:24:14.039 there like the first you know, Christmas break or whatever. 2:24:14.080 --> 2:24:16.320 The that was like, what do you mean you're broken up? 2:24:16.879 --> 2:24:21.080 You know it happened within that window and you know 2:24:21.160 --> 2:24:26.840 you're you're divorcing. So yeah, but I also saw, you know, 2:24:27.800 --> 2:24:30.160 I saw the things that made them different in the 2:24:30.240 --> 2:24:35.240 struggle that they had, the arguments. Again, I didn't come 2:24:35.320 --> 2:24:38.640 from Knockwood. My dad never struck my mother. You know. 2:24:39.520 --> 2:24:44.360 One time, one time he might have threatened to spank her. 2:24:45.440 --> 2:24:47.480 The kids, Well you're a kid, You're like, you're gonna 2:24:47.520 --> 2:24:52.040 spank her. I'm gonna turn you over my neighbors. That's like, 2:24:52.120 --> 2:24:55.400 it's like you and it's like but that was more 2:24:55.560 --> 2:24:59.360 just absurd than anything that's right. But see, my mother 2:24:59.640 --> 2:25:03.360 worked from the time I was She stopped working for 2:25:04.400 --> 2:25:11.440 about three years, uh, I think post my sister's birth, 2:25:12.120 --> 2:25:15.039 and then went back when I was in first grade, 2:25:15.160 --> 2:25:18.680 I think, to work and she ran a data center. 2:25:18.760 --> 2:25:21.040 She'd been a typist and she knew how to type. 2:25:21.120 --> 2:25:25.200 She started running and doing key punch operator, right, and 2:25:25.320 --> 2:25:29.360 she became uh uh, she was a very smart woman. 2:25:29.480 --> 2:25:32.320 She became a computer operator. That was when they were 2:25:32.360 --> 2:25:36.360 the big old Univac. You know they were four feet 2:25:36.760 --> 2:25:40.000 five four and a half feet high by eight feet long, 2:25:40.120 --> 2:25:41.400 you know, and you fed cards. 2:25:41.440 --> 2:25:41.560 You know. 2:25:42.120 --> 2:25:44.640 That was our scratch pads at home, the left of 2:25:44.640 --> 2:25:47.280 her punch card, right, you know, the key punch cards. 2:25:48.000 --> 2:25:51.800 And uh she worked then that job for twenty five years. 2:25:52.840 --> 2:25:56.720 And uh uh she drove her own car. From the 2:25:56.800 --> 2:25:59.360 time I was a baby, she drove you know, she 2:25:59.680 --> 2:26:03.080 had her own she had her own credit cards. She 2:26:04.400 --> 2:26:07.760 come home from work, she followed sales. She knew how 2:26:07.800 --> 2:26:11.000 to you know, she was a very thrifty woman. She 2:26:11.080 --> 2:26:14.440 knew how to manage money, you know, with my dad 2:26:14.680 --> 2:26:17.760 on the other end, you know, been the army. Army 2:26:17.800 --> 2:26:19.720 took care of if you ran out, you were still 2:26:19.879 --> 2:26:24.040 had a place to sleep and eat. And she she 2:26:25.680 --> 2:26:28.160 would take us to sales at the big department store. 2:26:28.200 --> 2:26:30.080 There was Lazarus. You know, you go down in the 2:26:30.200 --> 2:26:32.240 basement sale, you know, you know what I mean. And 2:26:32.400 --> 2:26:36.960 it's like she that was that and I I she 2:26:37.720 --> 2:26:46.320 she really did, you know, uh conduct herself on an 2:26:46.360 --> 2:26:48.920 equal left footing with my father. You know that way 2:26:49.120 --> 2:26:53.280 we you know, we knew Mom would was able to 2:26:53.360 --> 2:26:55.640 do things on her own, you know, from the time 2:26:55.680 --> 2:26:58.640 I was a kid. I it probably makes me expect more, 2:26:59.280 --> 2:27:02.960 you know, from women than what some are raised to be. 2:27:03.080 --> 2:27:07.800 You know, like I like assumed, well, yeah, you can 2:27:07.920 --> 2:27:10.600 do all your own things. You can take your drive, yourself, 2:27:11.000 --> 2:27:20.080 do this, and uh yeah, so I didn't you know, 2:27:21.600 --> 2:27:27.400 suffer the consequence of a broken family. You know, we 2:27:27.520 --> 2:27:32.160 were grown and it was over, and they remained civil 2:27:32.240 --> 2:27:34.560 with each other, and you know, we're able to be 2:27:34.640 --> 2:27:35.400 around one another. 2:27:35.560 --> 2:27:37.600 You did either of them find someone new? 2:27:38.360 --> 2:27:43.560 Yeah? They both remarried and and stayed with the person 2:27:43.560 --> 2:27:45.480 who were married to to the end. You know. My 2:27:45.840 --> 2:27:49.440 mom's husband passed just about three was it four years ago? 2:27:50.240 --> 2:27:52.600 And he was a bit older than her. He was 2:27:52.680 --> 2:27:55.560 probably eight or ten maybe ten years older my mom 2:27:56.400 --> 2:28:00.920 and and my dad remarried and he outlived his his spouse. 2:28:01.120 --> 2:28:07.240 And yeah, but you know, I mean I'm fortunate. It 2:28:07.440 --> 2:28:14.240 lets me as an artist, I think in writing, uh 2:28:15.320 --> 2:28:17.160 you know, that's maybe why I'm drawing the things that 2:28:18.280 --> 2:28:23.760 like in film. You know, you were mentioning and writing 2:28:23.800 --> 2:28:27.880 about the guests that book. That's not entertainment. I've never 2:28:28.120 --> 2:28:31.680 liked just entertainment. I like, like, I'd rather watch a 2:28:31.760 --> 2:28:35.480 Robert Oltman movie. Oh yeah. If you remember when he 2:28:35.560 --> 2:28:38.400 got the Lifetime Achievement Academy Award at the end of 2:28:38.440 --> 2:28:41.040 his life, he said, Now, I know some of you 2:28:41.160 --> 2:28:43.879 haven't liked all the movies that I've made, he said, 2:28:44.400 --> 2:28:47.640 but I just asked you to keep watching. It gets better, 2:28:48.760 --> 2:28:51.320 meaning it's all one movie. Right. It was a brilliant 2:28:51.360 --> 2:28:51.840 statement of it. 2:28:52.000 --> 2:28:55.480 I just remember when h fuck, what was the name 2:28:55.520 --> 2:28:57.920 of the one with Warren Beatty shot in the Pacific 2:28:58.000 --> 2:28:59.280 Northwest with all the snow. 2:29:00.120 --> 2:29:03.000 Missus Miller. Yeah, oh, that's one of the best. And 2:29:03.600 --> 2:29:06.440 I heard Warren Batty didn't, I said, yeah, because he 2:29:06.440 --> 2:29:09.240 did not doesn't act like a movie star in it. 2:29:09.840 --> 2:29:12.760 He's like a real person. I care. And the compression 2:29:12.840 --> 2:29:15.560 of time and that and now the charge me that 2:29:15.640 --> 2:29:18.120 for chippies. I'm not paying that for chippies. And you know, 2:29:18.440 --> 2:29:20.320 the hookers he's going And. 2:29:20.640 --> 2:29:23.360 If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his asshole, 2:29:24.120 --> 2:29:26.560 and and the and the deal and because it goes 2:29:26.640 --> 2:29:30.240 from you know, it's not the first time compressed time 2:29:30.400 --> 2:29:32.760 is being used, but it's Altman's use of it in 2:29:32.840 --> 2:29:37.199 that film was amazing in that you see Warren Baby 2:29:37.280 --> 2:29:40.800 go in to get you know, the chippies, and it 2:29:40.920 --> 2:29:44.480 can it comes back up like it's now the spring 2:29:44.640 --> 2:29:45.280 coming out of the winter. 2:29:46.240 --> 2:29:49.160 Seven months later and the place is built and he's gotten, 2:29:49.240 --> 2:29:53.680 it's working, and that always fascinated me. And even the 2:29:53.760 --> 2:29:56.160 scene with Keith Carrody. It's one of keys first on 2:29:56.280 --> 2:29:59.440 the bridge where and the guy says, oh, that's you 2:29:59.560 --> 2:30:01.920 got now it's a nice looking gun, and you're going, 2:30:02.080 --> 2:30:04.400 don't He goes, let me see that? Can you let 2:30:04.440 --> 2:30:07.480 me see it? Oh, you're going, don't you know? And 2:30:07.720 --> 2:30:09.600 because the women in the place are watching it and 2:30:09.680 --> 2:30:12.840 they like him, you know, he's just this young green 2:30:13.120 --> 2:30:16.680 cowboy that is you know, and you're going no. But 2:30:16.800 --> 2:30:20.279 his ability with stuff like that, you know, is always. 2:30:20.680 --> 2:30:23.840 Oh no, i think I've seen every close to every 2:30:23.920 --> 2:30:27.360 one of them, and kind of like it's very rare 2:30:28.040 --> 2:30:31.879 that someone can peak later in their career. But like shortcuts, 2:30:31.920 --> 2:30:32.760 shortcuts was. 2:30:32.840 --> 2:30:38.240 Great, Oh yeah, yeah again his telling of because his 2:30:38.760 --> 2:30:42.000 movies are about the interaction of people with each other, 2:30:42.720 --> 2:30:46.320 always it's not plot driven. There's a plot, and he'll 2:30:46.360 --> 2:30:48.760 get to it, but he's not in such a hurry, 2:30:48.840 --> 2:30:51.840 and he's not so overwhelming that that's the issue, because 2:30:51.879 --> 2:30:56.560 that's entertainment, right plot. You know, anybody can write plot, 2:30:56.680 --> 2:31:00.120 but not many people can write character and dial all 2:31:00.240 --> 2:31:03.200 the way. The other one is is even Peckingpad later 2:31:03.320 --> 2:31:07.119 in his life, right when he delivers the seminal Western 2:31:07.200 --> 2:31:09.800 is wild bunch because it takes you into and the 2:31:09.879 --> 2:31:13.520 way he was using slow motion, ptigraphy, the violence and 2:31:13.560 --> 2:31:17.480 all that. But that movie, i argue, always is much 2:31:17.600 --> 2:31:21.199 more with one foot still in the traditional Hollywood filmmaking 2:31:21.280 --> 2:31:23.640 because of the score Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid 2:31:23.680 --> 2:31:26.360 is the first rock and roll Western because of the 2:31:26.440 --> 2:31:29.080 way he scored it. Right now, I'm not having to 2:31:29.200 --> 2:31:31.400 dore all this stuff, you know, just all the recurring, 2:31:32.560 --> 2:31:35.400 the way it was done, Pat Garrett, Billy the Kid. 2:31:35.440 --> 2:31:38.240 But bring me the head of Alfredo Garcia is the 2:31:38.320 --> 2:31:45.800 one with Warren Oates going crazy, what right the hook 2:31:45.879 --> 2:31:47.800 or that he's in love with right and trying to 2:31:47.840 --> 2:31:51.280 get that head. I mean to me that you know, 2:31:52.000 --> 2:31:57.240 that's fascinating, and it's maybe because I didn't suffer the 2:31:57.360 --> 2:32:01.880 same kind of angst. I never felt fearful in our house. 2:32:02.959 --> 2:32:06.440 I never felt fear from the outside world. As my 2:32:06.520 --> 2:32:09.880 old man was, I always felt it was a protector 2:32:09.959 --> 2:32:12.560 from the time I was a kid. For whatever his 2:32:12.720 --> 2:32:16.760 flaws were, nothing that you were. It was over that 2:32:16.920 --> 2:32:19.360 guy's dead body. You were gonna do anything to our family, 2:32:19.920 --> 2:32:20.920 do you know what I mean? I mean, there's a 2:32:21.320 --> 2:32:25.520 and I realized now and knowing friends and close people 2:32:25.600 --> 2:32:28.440 that are close to me that didn't grow up that 2:32:28.520 --> 2:32:33.360 way or suffered the under the threat of violence within 2:32:33.440 --> 2:32:37.000 the house outside you know, people coming into the house 2:32:37.040 --> 2:32:40.200 that were extended family that were violent towards you know, 2:32:40.320 --> 2:32:44.520 their you know them and their family. I've just experienced 2:32:44.560 --> 2:32:49.080 it with people and I'm like, wow, yeah, I'm lucky. 2:32:49.160 --> 2:32:52.520 And maybe that's what allows me to write about things 2:32:52.600 --> 2:32:58.400 that I you know, the sadness of some things and 2:32:59.200 --> 2:33:03.840 and uh, the willingness to you know, to watch it 2:33:04.080 --> 2:33:08.480 in film and observe it. And anyway, let's. 2:33:08.320 --> 2:33:12.560 Stay with Peckapah for a minute. People say movies are 2:33:12.640 --> 2:33:16.240 too bloody, too gory. I've never had a problem without 2:33:16.280 --> 2:33:20.240 it all but the only movie that pushed me over 2:33:20.280 --> 2:33:23.320 the line. But I sat there in the theater straw Dogs. 2:33:23.760 --> 2:33:28.400 WHOA remember was Susan Joya? Yeah, pretty, he's seeing those guys. 2:33:28.680 --> 2:33:30.080 Wow it dustn't Hoffman? 2:33:30.440 --> 2:33:31.280 Right? Yeah? 2:33:31.520 --> 2:33:33.000 Is it Dustin Hoffman or that guy? 2:33:33.680 --> 2:33:35.840 Is it? I have to look it up. Yeah it is. 2:33:36.080 --> 2:33:38.240 It's Dustin Hoffman. Is her husband? Right? 2:33:38.520 --> 2:33:38.720 Yeah? 2:33:39.040 --> 2:33:40.920 And they come in there and are they in Ironland 2:33:41.000 --> 2:33:44.879 or England? I can't remember where it takes place. It's 2:33:44.920 --> 2:33:49.120 either they're out of their cultural element and you know 2:33:49.200 --> 2:33:53.240 they are Americans that are there and living. Oh yeah, 2:33:53.360 --> 2:33:55.920 I haven't watched it in years, but it's very disturbing, 2:33:56.680 --> 2:33:59.959 very disturbing. More so Clwork or Clarkwork Orange has been 2:34:00.040 --> 2:34:04.080 a cartoon of that. This is so reality based that 2:34:04.200 --> 2:34:07.480 it it'll make you, you know, check, go get a 2:34:07.520 --> 2:34:09.720 gun exactly. 2:34:10.360 --> 2:34:13.520 But there's one of the scariest movies I've ever seen, 2:34:14.560 --> 2:34:16.720 Angel Heart. Is that the name of the book or 2:34:16.720 --> 2:34:17.520 the name of the movie. 2:34:18.040 --> 2:34:21.400 That's the movie both, I think with Mickey ro Hoffman. 2:34:22.400 --> 2:34:28.440 Dustin Hoffman played Louis Seiffer ship. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 2:34:28.520 --> 2:34:32.640 sat in New Orleans, et cetera. Wow. I even remember 2:34:32.760 --> 2:34:35.840 reading the book. Yeah, it was called Angel Heart. And 2:34:37.560 --> 2:34:39.480 I remember reading the book because I had it. Somebody 2:34:39.560 --> 2:34:41.320 sent it to me that even scared me. 2:34:42.280 --> 2:34:48.039 Yeah, no, no, no, and well straw Dogs, like you said, 2:34:48.840 --> 2:34:55.600 is disturbing, and it's you know, I've thought about it. 2:34:55.720 --> 2:35:00.160 I thought, you know what, there is something and the 2:35:03.240 --> 2:35:06.119 safety of the life I was, you know, I lived, 2:35:06.160 --> 2:35:08.760 and not that we didn't have up down problems and 2:35:09.520 --> 2:35:12.520 you know, and my brother, you know, had his own 2:35:12.600 --> 2:35:16.440 issues and there was stuff, you know, even in his 2:35:16.600 --> 2:35:20.200 early adult life that bled over into the family of him. 2:35:21.080 --> 2:35:28.200 But I realize the the lack of being fearful in 2:35:28.320 --> 2:35:30.200 our own home that somebody else was going to come in, 2:35:30.440 --> 2:35:33.720 you know, and and do something to us, or be 2:35:33.800 --> 2:35:36.320 able to you know, have a free hand, you know, 2:35:36.440 --> 2:35:40.960 in coming over. And you know I didn't have to 2:35:41.040 --> 2:35:42.600 live with that kind of fear. 2:35:43.080 --> 2:35:45.720 Well, we didn't have that at all. But I think, 2:35:45.760 --> 2:35:48.920 you know, you're talking about being the youngest. My father 2:35:49.120 --> 2:35:51.800 was a guy didn't fit in and he ultimately made 2:35:51.840 --> 2:35:55.760 his success individually and didn't have. 2:35:55.879 --> 2:35:58.440 To fit in because he was the youngest of the family. 2:35:59.560 --> 2:36:02.080 Was he in terms of the kids he was the oldest? 2:36:02.480 --> 2:36:07.440 Oh okay, I mean he had a rough family. One sister, 2:36:08.040 --> 2:36:11.920 one brother was run over and killed in the driveway. 2:36:12.000 --> 2:36:15.200 Another sister committed suicide. I mean, it wasn't just your 2:36:15.240 --> 2:36:23.480 everyday family. But he, you know, not by today's rich standards. 2:36:24.120 --> 2:36:26.760 He would support you. He would buy you the sporting 2:36:26.840 --> 2:36:29.680 equipment and do that as long as you were geting 2:36:29.680 --> 2:36:32.480 good grades in school. Didn't want to hear that you 2:36:32.520 --> 2:36:35.640 wanted to be a professional athlete. But as long as 2:36:35.680 --> 2:36:38.080 you were doing this, he would do it. To the degree. 2:36:38.400 --> 2:36:40.920 He wasn't trying to teach us a lesson. I remember 2:36:41.520 --> 2:36:43.920 talking about this the other day, but I was ten. 2:36:44.720 --> 2:36:48.920 My father bought me golf clubs. Almost no clubs in 2:36:49.000 --> 2:36:54.760 the There was a driver three five seven, three five 2:36:54.840 --> 2:36:58.680 seven and a putter. Everybody in the community went berserk. 2:36:59.000 --> 2:37:01.600 He's too young, I mean we just played the public course. 2:37:01.800 --> 2:37:04.119 He's the young to have alc golf clubs within a year. 2:37:04.640 --> 2:37:07.520 All their kids had much better golf sets than I did, 2:37:08.080 --> 2:37:10.880 you know, but he was one. He didn't give a 2:37:10.920 --> 2:37:12.920 shit what anybody else thought. 2:37:13.120 --> 2:37:14.959 I mean, my father made a. 2:37:15.000 --> 2:37:18.400 Living speaking his truth. And I guess, you know, you 2:37:18.520 --> 2:37:20.720 get old, you think you're so different from people, and 2:37:20.800 --> 2:37:22.320 you find out you're the same. I guess, you know, 2:37:22.480 --> 2:37:25.640 there's some lessons I got from him, same thing. 2:37:26.040 --> 2:37:29.920 Yeah, speaking your truth. I don't think you'd be accused 2:37:29.959 --> 2:37:31.440 of not right. 2:37:31.480 --> 2:37:33.360 But I really don't know any other way. I mean 2:37:33.800 --> 2:37:36.000 I tried to be the other way where you know, 2:37:36.480 --> 2:37:40.040 kissed but played politics. And you know, it's funny. I 2:37:40.120 --> 2:37:43.400 had a dream about this just the other night. You know, 2:37:43.720 --> 2:37:45.600 they said, how can you say this? You know, you 2:37:45.720 --> 2:37:49.400 gotta be ostracized. Most people learn to be a member 2:37:49.440 --> 2:37:51.760 of the group. That's not what my father taught me. 2:37:52.280 --> 2:37:54.800 Yeah, he stay an outsider. 2:37:55.560 --> 2:38:01.400 Yeah, so you were, you were successful. Classic thing is 2:38:01.520 --> 2:38:05.120 people buy their parents a house or something. To what 2:38:05.400 --> 2:38:09.040 degree did you buy your parents and your sister and 2:38:09.160 --> 2:38:10.280 brother on the payroll? 2:38:10.959 --> 2:38:13.600 No, I didn't. I didn't do that. Didn't have to, 2:38:13.879 --> 2:38:15.959 Thank goodness, it didn't. I mean, you know, they both 2:38:16.959 --> 2:38:20.040 had their lives that were you know, okay. But I 2:38:20.160 --> 2:38:22.080 was able to retire my mom early, you know, let 2:38:22.120 --> 2:38:25.959 her after twenty five years instead of working another five 2:38:26.160 --> 2:38:30.680 or eight or you know whatever. And that much I 2:38:30.840 --> 2:38:35.320 was able to do was help her retire early, earlier, 2:38:36.680 --> 2:38:40.240 and you know, being able to give them things, you know, 2:38:40.280 --> 2:38:44.080 over the years, you know, gifts and stuff, but but 2:38:44.280 --> 2:38:47.640 never really And then I was able to help my 2:38:47.760 --> 2:38:50.040 dad and his wife, you know, a similar kind of thing, 2:38:50.200 --> 2:38:53.400 just you know, help help them, you know along. You know. 2:38:53.520 --> 2:38:56.720 So that was a benefit of the success, a great 2:38:56.800 --> 2:38:59.360 benefit of success. But as I always felt like I 2:38:59.560 --> 2:39:05.520 owed because that guitar he ended up for several years 2:39:05.920 --> 2:39:08.119 having to do piece meal when we go hunting, rabbit 2:39:08.200 --> 2:39:10.440 hunting or whatever. He always had kind of a bowl 2:39:10.520 --> 2:39:14.800 that he ended up with, not great shotguns. And uh, 2:39:15.760 --> 2:39:19.039 because I found out years later that that that guitar 2:39:19.200 --> 2:39:21.360 I wanted so desperately eight years old, I wanted a 2:39:21.400 --> 2:39:26.160 real guitar. He hocked a great shotgun that he had 2:39:26.640 --> 2:39:32.600 and actually just sold it to you know, have the 2:39:32.680 --> 2:39:35.879 money to buy that guitar that Christmas. So I owe 2:39:35.920 --> 2:39:39.120 them a debt of gratitude. But I felt like, look, 2:39:40.320 --> 2:39:42.280 you know, and I think that kids that are able 2:39:42.320 --> 2:39:45.280 to get back to their parents, it's a gift to 2:39:45.400 --> 2:39:49.040 the kid for me. Anything that I was able to 2:39:49.080 --> 2:39:51.160 do for them, I thought was a gift because, like 2:39:51.240 --> 2:39:54.400 I said, I was lucky. And I realized how lucky 2:39:54.480 --> 2:39:59.920 now when I meet some you know, friends and here 2:40:00.200 --> 2:40:05.080 of their life with parents that were less than mature 2:40:05.160 --> 2:40:08.680 about love, you know what I mean? Love, I believe me. 2:40:08.760 --> 2:40:11.960 We're talking about love. The sacrifice they'll make for love, 2:40:12.520 --> 2:40:15.080 you know, nothing else that they'll give up their own 2:40:15.160 --> 2:40:19.280 selfishness for love. And my mother had that and women, 2:40:19.640 --> 2:40:22.400 you know, the mothers do you know, for the most part. 2:40:24.360 --> 2:40:28.400 Obviously there are nominlies and exceptions to everything, the rules 2:40:28.440 --> 2:40:31.160 that that is. But guys, we have to learn what 2:40:31.360 --> 2:40:33.920 we tend to be selfish, you know, all right, you know, 2:40:34.840 --> 2:40:42.720 and and but selflessness is there when if you've got 2:40:42.800 --> 2:40:45.360 it in you, it comes out when they you know, 2:40:45.440 --> 2:40:48.760 they look up at you, and like you said, you 2:40:48.959 --> 2:40:52.480 learn a different love. And that's that's selfless love, you know, 2:40:53.200 --> 2:40:57.840 with a child. And that's what I felt. Look, I've 2:40:57.920 --> 2:41:00.160 read enough of you. With your mom, you would do 2:41:00.440 --> 2:41:03.400 small things, whether you didn't necessarily buy you didn't have to, 2:41:03.879 --> 2:41:06.880 you know, buy her house. I didn't have to with 2:41:07.080 --> 2:41:09.800 my mother and her husband were okay, you know, they 2:41:09.840 --> 2:41:14.840 were uh and and uh. She was always very cautious, 2:41:14.959 --> 2:41:17.680 you know, with with her money. I would you know, 2:41:17.800 --> 2:41:20.120 I had a little bit of it. I mean, you know, 2:41:20.520 --> 2:41:23.840 at least save some you know, had some you know, 2:41:23.920 --> 2:41:26.320 underneath the stereo or something in my room. I was 2:41:26.400 --> 2:41:33.720 getting paper route or whatever. And you know, yeah, I 2:41:33.800 --> 2:41:36.959 mean you've talked about even taking your mom to dinner 2:41:37.040 --> 2:41:38.600 right now, you know, and just things that you're able 2:41:38.640 --> 2:41:39.680 to do well. 2:41:39.800 --> 2:41:43.320 My mother, I mean, I'm going to talk about my mother. 2:41:43.480 --> 2:41:46.840 My mother was the inspir Like if I wanted to 2:41:46.879 --> 2:41:48.880 go to a movie, or I wanted to go to 2:41:49.000 --> 2:41:51.039 a play, or I wanted to go to a concert, 2:41:51.600 --> 2:41:55.400 unlimited money for that. If you wanted to buy an 2:41:55.440 --> 2:41:58.680 item whatever, that was a whole different thing, okay. 2:41:58.600 --> 2:42:05.400 But to engage in and art, art, watching art, you participating. 2:42:05.480 --> 2:42:07.200 I mean my mother once I remember my mother tell 2:42:07.240 --> 2:42:09.000 me is hey, Country, Joe and the Fish are going 2:42:09.080 --> 2:42:12.880 to be a new haven. It's like, okay, you know, 2:42:13.240 --> 2:42:15.920 I'm gonna go whereas he said, you know, give me 2:42:16.040 --> 2:42:18.880 some money to go hang with my buds. No, but 2:42:20.240 --> 2:42:22.760 she would encourage you, and then if you got really 2:42:22.920 --> 2:42:26.320 into it, she would push back and. 2:42:28.200 --> 2:42:29.800 You know, ha ha. 2:42:30.680 --> 2:42:32.440 And I told some of these stories before, but my 2:42:32.640 --> 2:42:35.640 one of my favorite stories. In the earlier part of 2:42:35.680 --> 2:42:39.600 this century, basically everybody had a computer, even your parents, 2:42:39.680 --> 2:42:42.039 because if they are well whatever, So you send email 2:42:42.080 --> 2:42:46.440 to your parents and I forward, like, you know, sometime 2:42:46.560 --> 2:42:49.880 two thousand and four or three whatever. I forwarded an 2:42:49.920 --> 2:42:56.040 email from Quincy Jones and I never heard anything. So 2:42:56.120 --> 2:42:58.000 the next time I spoke with my mother, I said, 2:42:58.879 --> 2:43:00.400 you know, you know I sent you email. 2:43:00.600 --> 2:43:01.400 Yeah, yeah, you know. 2:43:01.720 --> 2:43:02.280 Did you read it? 2:43:02.360 --> 2:43:02.560 Yeah? 2:43:02.680 --> 2:43:05.200 I redreamail, you know the one, Yeah, Quincy Jones, Yeah, 2:43:05.280 --> 2:43:08.720 I read. Well, you weren't impressive with Quincy Jones whatever, 2:43:08.760 --> 2:43:14.360 blah blah blah. I said, Quincy Jones, you mean the 2:43:14.520 --> 2:43:17.200 artist I figured with somebody the same same name. How 2:43:17.240 --> 2:43:19.000 would you know Quincy Jones? 2:43:21.240 --> 2:43:25.360 You mean the artist she figured? 2:43:25.400 --> 2:43:26.480 You know, she would put you down? 2:43:26.560 --> 2:43:26.920 Who are you? 2:43:27.160 --> 2:43:28.040 How would you know that? 2:43:28.120 --> 2:43:35.160 Would you? Bob? No, Quincy Jones. That's hilarious? Yeah, no, 2:43:35.320 --> 2:43:39.720 I you know. Yeah. The dynamic with with family is 2:43:40.000 --> 2:43:45.000 is interesting. I mean, fortunately they were they never traded 2:43:45.080 --> 2:43:48.080 on it, you know, when it, you know, the success happened. 2:43:49.040 --> 2:43:56.600 They they what's going on? Oh, somebody overheard as I 2:43:56.680 --> 2:43:59.920 heard somebody outside repeating what you said. They're they're hearing 2:44:00.160 --> 2:44:03.080 another speaker, and they were laughing about the fact that 2:44:03.160 --> 2:44:09.680 your mother was shocked, you know, Quinn. They yeah, so 2:44:10.240 --> 2:44:11.400 you know, knock Wood. 2:44:13.400 --> 2:44:16.720 Sings. How'd your siblings cope with your level of success? 2:44:17.720 --> 2:44:21.720 Really well, really well? Actually, I mean they they didn't again, 2:44:22.520 --> 2:44:24.720 didn't expect much. I mean I would. My brother had 2:44:24.760 --> 2:44:27.360 a bit of a struggle, you know, and life, and 2:44:27.480 --> 2:44:30.720 he helped my sister and I enormously. He went down 2:44:30.760 --> 2:44:33.840 and took care of my father when my father had dementia. 2:44:33.920 --> 2:44:37.440 He didn't have Alzheimer's thinking he had an arterial dementia. 2:44:37.480 --> 2:44:39.800 In the last couple of years with life and my brother, 2:44:40.320 --> 2:44:42.200 he had gone through a divorce and it was kind 2:44:42.200 --> 2:44:45.960 of in a different space. He moved there and stayed, 2:44:46.200 --> 2:44:49.880 you know, and stayed the course with him and and actually, 2:44:50.120 --> 2:44:52.800 you know, witnessed he was in an assisted you know, 2:44:53.040 --> 2:44:55.080 a place where my brother would go every day, you know, 2:44:55.280 --> 2:44:57.360 take him wherever he needed to go and do whatever. 2:44:58.000 --> 2:45:00.920 And for him, that was one of the greatest gifts 2:45:00.959 --> 2:45:02.760 he could give my sister and I. You know that 2:45:02.879 --> 2:45:05.720 he did that, that he did that for my dad. 2:45:06.760 --> 2:45:08.680 I loved him even deeper than I did, you know, 2:45:09.840 --> 2:45:14.160 my brother, I loved him, but but you know, it 2:45:14.560 --> 2:45:20.640 really played on him hard. He We think he casually 2:45:20.720 --> 2:45:23.840 of that first year of COVID he passed young. I 2:45:24.000 --> 2:45:30.080 think sixty two, wow, no, sixty what even was sixty one? 2:45:31.160 --> 2:45:34.199 And we think now that he may have had Louis 2:45:34.280 --> 2:45:37.320 body dimension, which is what Robin Williams was diagnosed with 2:45:37.440 --> 2:45:39.840 after the fact, because they don't know what and they 2:45:39.920 --> 2:45:43.840 start having And my brother had been at close range 2:45:43.959 --> 2:45:47.879 watching dementia take my dad and it was tough on him, 2:45:48.040 --> 2:45:51.480 and so I was, you know, but I was able 2:45:51.520 --> 2:45:54.160 to you know, help him by helping us and let him, 2:45:54.240 --> 2:45:57.520 you know, do that. And but no, they never expect that. 2:45:57.600 --> 2:46:00.680 They'd never tapped me, you know. I mean I've been 2:46:00.720 --> 2:46:04.240 able to do things with and for them and with them, 2:46:05.080 --> 2:46:11.640 but you know, uh, now, there was no no house 2:46:11.720 --> 2:46:13.879 buying or things like that. I was, you know, I've 2:46:13.959 --> 2:46:16.840 done some bit of lavish gift giving and over over 2:46:16.959 --> 2:46:19.560 time and and I did, you know, end up with 2:46:19.600 --> 2:46:21.640 a plane. One of the ways my brother built some 2:46:22.240 --> 2:46:25.520 multi time we have because I loved flying and I 2:46:25.600 --> 2:46:29.160 couldn't do it, and I bought a small twin engine jet, 2:46:29.720 --> 2:46:31.800 not jet, but a plane, and he flew and then 2:46:31.840 --> 2:46:34.600 he built his time and he on his own and 2:46:34.720 --> 2:46:37.920 he started doing you know, flying and jet flying and 2:46:38.000 --> 2:46:41.680 so forth, and doing it with first you know, carrying 2:46:42.800 --> 2:46:45.960 uh overnight banking, you know, back in the even the 2:46:46.080 --> 2:46:48.400 early night. They were still it was paper. They had 2:46:48.440 --> 2:46:50.840 to move it overnight. And that's one of the ways 2:46:50.920 --> 2:46:53.879 these guys will build enormous amounts of hours and flying 2:46:54.520 --> 2:46:58.760 is they'll they'll hire on to uh, you know, check flying. 2:46:59.560 --> 2:47:01.480 And he did that for you know, a couple of 2:47:01.560 --> 2:47:09.440 three years, you know, flew charter anyway. But yeah, so no, 2:47:09.600 --> 2:47:16.080 I mean, I mean, you know, not having to struggle 2:47:17.200 --> 2:47:24.480 with the function of life allowed me the luxury of 2:47:24.600 --> 2:47:31.960 being able to explore within myself whatever I needed to do, 2:47:32.080 --> 2:47:35.000 you know, I mean saying, it's like I'm not having 2:47:35.040 --> 2:47:38.080 to put myself back together, you know. And I didn't. 2:47:38.160 --> 2:47:42.600 I never never drank. I just I was raised, like 2:47:42.720 --> 2:47:45.720 I said, in a very absent environment, you know, until 2:47:45.760 --> 2:47:47.680 I was an adult. And by the time I got there, 2:47:47.760 --> 2:47:50.120 I almost kissed. Like I'm like, and I've watched it 2:47:50.240 --> 2:47:53.640 all you have, but at close range bars and I've 2:47:53.680 --> 2:47:57.320 seen professionals, I know, you know, and just it never 2:47:57.520 --> 2:48:02.920 because I had an event horizon that I kept staring at. 2:48:03.120 --> 2:48:04.880 I thought, I need to you know, I need to 2:48:04.920 --> 2:48:08.960 be awake and alert and sober, and I need to 2:48:09.800 --> 2:48:12.840 know what the hell I'm doing, you know, And I 2:48:12.959 --> 2:48:17.920 don't want they just never It's just not my nature 2:48:17.959 --> 2:48:22.119 to want to to come in. My old man smoked 2:48:22.120 --> 2:48:25.039 cigarettes and never never because of my throat. I didn't 2:48:25.080 --> 2:48:29.080 want to wreck you know. Weird early on, I knew 2:48:29.160 --> 2:48:31.400 from an early age I wanted to do this. I 2:48:31.520 --> 2:48:34.480 wanted to sing, and I thought I may I may 2:48:34.520 --> 2:48:36.840 be able to do this, you know. And and. 2:48:38.520 --> 2:48:43.720 I just, uh, well, tell me about I know you 2:48:43.760 --> 2:48:45.879 didn't want to abuse yourself, But tell me about knowing 2:48:46.000 --> 2:48:47.040 that you wanted to do this. 2:48:49.360 --> 2:48:54.240 Yeah, I just from my earliest memories. And it's strange. 2:48:54.320 --> 2:48:57.760 I see it in my little one. He it's almost 2:48:57.840 --> 2:49:03.480 a knowing about like he knows, you know. And it's 2:49:03.879 --> 2:49:06.520 my wife observes it in a different way because for me, 2:49:06.680 --> 2:49:10.119 it just reminds me of like, oh, yeah, I remember feeling, 2:49:10.840 --> 2:49:13.959 you know that I can do this, I could make people. 2:49:15.320 --> 2:49:23.119 Uh it's just yeah, I I And again, you can't 2:49:23.200 --> 2:49:26.840 teach it, and you have to have an experience along 2:49:26.959 --> 2:49:29.520 the way that lets you confirm if you've got any 2:49:29.640 --> 2:49:31.800 level of intelligence. I think you have to. You want 2:49:31.920 --> 2:49:35.480 to make sure you're not just delusional, right, So you've 2:49:35.480 --> 2:49:38.320 got to do it outside. Two things can happen at home. 2:49:38.400 --> 2:49:40.360 You need to be on the coffee table, and you're just, 2:49:40.640 --> 2:49:43.800 you know, the precocious little darling that you know they're 2:49:43.840 --> 2:49:46.160 going to dote over whether you're any good or not, 2:49:47.000 --> 2:49:49.800 or you can get the tall poppy cut down right. 2:49:49.879 --> 2:49:53.400 You know, I've seen both in families mine would you 2:49:53.440 --> 2:49:55.480 would it was not either, you know, they weren't just 2:49:55.680 --> 2:49:59.760 indulging me. But they knew when I came down with 2:49:59.840 --> 2:50:03.720 that concoction of a song about Vietnam, that there was 2:50:03.840 --> 2:50:06.280 something up. They didn't know what because they didn't know. 2:50:06.520 --> 2:50:09.320 You know, there are people they're so far removed from 2:50:09.360 --> 2:50:12.240 show business, you know, they don't know anybody that's even 2:50:12.280 --> 2:50:17.200 got a cousin that you know, did anything at the 2:50:17.280 --> 2:50:21.000 local radio or television station. So I was left to 2:50:21.080 --> 2:50:23.080 my own devices. And then by the time I got 2:50:23.840 --> 2:50:26.560 junior high, the first two years of my junior high 2:50:26.680 --> 2:50:29.120 was at a school. It wasn't middle schools junior high, 2:50:29.120 --> 2:50:32.720 but they the freshman class had been It was a 2:50:32.800 --> 2:50:35.440 new area that been built and we'd moved to this 2:50:35.959 --> 2:50:41.160 track home out there, and the high school had freshman 2:50:41.200 --> 2:50:44.600 through senior and so my junior high only had a 2:50:45.959 --> 2:50:49.760 seventh and eighth grade and in my freshman year, my 2:50:49.920 --> 2:50:53.120 ninth grade year was at that junior high and in 2:50:53.320 --> 2:50:56.720 that year, my former eighth grade history teacher, because they 2:50:56.879 --> 2:51:04.600 added the third class of students, he started a drama program. 2:51:04.920 --> 2:51:07.120 He started teaching you could take a drama class, and 2:51:07.840 --> 2:51:09.840 so he started putting up one act plays and I 2:51:10.640 --> 2:51:13.720 walked in and was able to be cast like I 2:51:13.920 --> 2:51:17.560 was good. I used to be doing the reading and 2:51:17.920 --> 2:51:20.720 he cast me, and I did a couple of these plays, 2:51:21.120 --> 2:51:23.880 and then I started doing it in high school. There 2:51:23.959 --> 2:51:26.920 was a great theater department there and a fellow named 2:51:27.000 --> 2:51:32.199 Chuck Lewis who was the theater teacher at that high school, 2:51:32.760 --> 2:51:36.400 who ran a summerstock company, weather Vane Playoffs is saying 2:51:36.400 --> 2:51:40.040 at Newark, Ohio. So he brought a certain level of 2:51:40.120 --> 2:51:43.760 professional expectation to how the stage was going to be around, 2:51:43.800 --> 2:51:46.480 how you were supposed to behave. So I got exposed 2:51:46.560 --> 2:51:48.520 to that in there, and I was always in band 2:51:48.600 --> 2:51:51.280 to march. I was trying to play football that was 2:51:51.760 --> 2:51:53.400 all of one hundred and thirty five pounds when I 2:51:53.400 --> 2:51:55.120 was a sophomore in high school and we had an 2:51:55.160 --> 2:51:57.280 all city team. I mean, it was like getting knocked 2:51:57.320 --> 2:52:00.760 around like a rag doll. And so by my sophomore year. 2:52:00.800 --> 2:52:04.520 I stopped after my sophomore year, I and it was 2:52:04.680 --> 2:52:08.080 became marched, one of the two based drums in marching band. 2:52:08.160 --> 2:52:14.200 My letter jacket is banned. That's funny enough, ironically. And 2:52:15.280 --> 2:52:17.640 we had a great marching band and had an instrumental 2:52:17.720 --> 2:52:20.520 drum band, you know, pro a stage band. I played drums, 2:52:20.680 --> 2:52:26.440 not well, but and the theater department and every other 2:52:26.600 --> 2:52:29.520 year they would do this combined variety show, you know, 2:52:29.640 --> 2:52:31.840 And I was back to what I was going to say. 2:52:31.879 --> 2:52:37.120 One day, the theater teacher in the junior high it 2:52:37.240 --> 2:52:39.560 was stubborn, gave me a ride home, give me a 2:52:39.600 --> 2:52:43.240 left home and from something we're doing. I don't know 2:52:43.320 --> 2:52:47.800 if it was a rehearsal or whatever. And he pulled 2:52:47.840 --> 2:52:49.720 on the driveway and he said, you know, I don't 2:52:49.800 --> 2:52:52.120 know what your parents do for a living or how 2:52:52.800 --> 2:52:56.000 they are. I said, but I don't know how to say. 2:52:56.280 --> 2:53:01.360 I think, if you want to, you could make a 2:53:01.440 --> 2:53:05.199 living doing this. And I was kind of like taking 2:53:05.240 --> 2:53:08.240 aback a little bit. I said, mean make a living 2:53:08.440 --> 2:53:12.080 doing what you meant, no performing, you know what you 2:53:12.280 --> 2:53:15.280 do in in what we're doing in plays, And so 2:53:15.879 --> 2:53:17.360 he said, I'm not sure how to tell you how 2:53:17.400 --> 2:53:20.440 to do it, you know, because it's a history teacher. 2:53:21.640 --> 2:53:24.280 But that moment, you know, there's a moment that someone 2:53:25.560 --> 2:53:29.280 gives you confirmation a third party who's not your parent, 2:53:29.400 --> 2:53:32.680 not your aunt, uncle, no relative. At that moment, I 2:53:33.360 --> 2:53:42.680 and again, I'm just obstinately, obstinately optimistic enough, maybe egotistical 2:53:42.840 --> 2:53:47.360 enough to use that as a handhold, you know. That 2:53:47.520 --> 2:53:51.320 was the next And then in that high school theater department, 2:53:51.360 --> 2:53:54.720 I started doing plays very immediately. And in my junior year, 2:53:55.640 --> 2:53:57.280 I haping to be walking down the hall and heard 2:53:57.560 --> 2:54:01.040 part of the stage band guys trying to do some 2:54:02.920 --> 2:54:07.040 in some fashion rockabilly and the drum major from the 2:54:07.160 --> 2:54:08.960 marching band and he was a trumpet player in stage 2:54:09.000 --> 2:54:12.640 man was attempting to be the singer and it was awful. 2:54:13.200 --> 2:54:15.360 I heard it outside the band and I walked in 2:54:15.440 --> 2:54:18.080 and said, well, you guys doing and they said, well, 2:54:18.120 --> 2:54:19.840 you know we're gonna do it for the show because 2:54:19.879 --> 2:54:21.880 I was gonna host it with this other guy. We 2:54:21.959 --> 2:54:24.760 were doing a Smothers Brothers stick, you know, and he 2:54:24.840 --> 2:54:27.120 had an upright bass and I was playing guitar. I 2:54:27.160 --> 2:54:30.560 remember I performed Loud and Wainwrights hit Dead Skunk, in 2:54:30.600 --> 2:54:33.320 the middle of the road during that, which was a 2:54:33.840 --> 2:54:38.760 brilliant song. Actually, so on crossing the highway late last night, 2:54:38.840 --> 2:54:40.440 he should have looked left and he should have looked 2:54:40.520 --> 2:54:44.720 right right, didn't see the station flagging, cars got squashed 2:54:44.800 --> 2:54:46.920 and there you are. You got a dead skunk in 2:54:47.040 --> 2:54:50.720 the middle again. You talking about post hippie them kind 2:54:50.760 --> 2:54:54.360 of weird, oh yeah, weird song world. You know, it 2:54:54.560 --> 2:54:57.080 was there by then, you know, nineteen seventy three, right 2:54:57.480 --> 2:55:01.920 right and h So I was doing that and they 2:55:02.000 --> 2:55:04.200 knew and they said, well, we're you know, doing this 2:55:04.480 --> 2:55:08.039 kind of like you know Seannan I kind of, I said, well, 2:55:08.320 --> 2:55:11.039 he said, but yeah, but he's not, you know, I said, 2:55:11.040 --> 2:55:12.720 you mean like that. I took the mind and they 2:55:12.760 --> 2:55:15.560 started playing whatever, and I started singing. And they didn't 2:55:15.600 --> 2:55:17.080 know I sang, because this was the stuff I did 2:55:17.120 --> 2:55:19.840 at home. You know, I wasn't in chorus or choir, 2:55:20.000 --> 2:55:24.080 I mean some perfunctory one course, you know, I whatever 2:55:24.200 --> 2:55:27.920 vocal music as an elective, but nobody knew I sang. 2:55:28.120 --> 2:55:31.720 And in fact, the theater folks for my sophomore year 2:55:32.879 --> 2:55:37.720 thought that I couldn't sing at all because I did 2:55:37.760 --> 2:55:39.840 a play Miracle Worker, right, you know, that was the 2:55:39.920 --> 2:55:41.680 kind of you know, and I was playing the younger 2:55:41.760 --> 2:55:44.039 brother and he had to sing Buffalo Gallantry. I never 2:55:44.120 --> 2:55:47.920 heard the song, so they and I couldn't. I was 2:55:48.000 --> 2:55:51.480 like in the theater and started directing. It was like 2:55:52.120 --> 2:55:55.400 he said, it's They hollered it out to me from 2:55:55.480 --> 2:55:58.160 the seats, you know, rehearsal one day and like hollering. 2:55:58.240 --> 2:56:00.720 I was like, okay, I don't know. I think so 2:56:00.840 --> 2:56:03.040 it was this you know, kind of weak performance of 2:56:03.120 --> 2:56:05.440 that that I did during the play. So they were 2:56:05.520 --> 2:56:07.720 stunned when they saw me come out with this band 2:56:08.400 --> 2:56:11.080 and take over that show and kind of have that 2:56:11.320 --> 2:56:15.959 moment and it's and it's it's that weird seminal kind 2:56:16.000 --> 2:56:19.440 of thing, and there were girls went crazy and we 2:56:19.480 --> 2:56:22.560 were you know, it was like this nutty moment and 2:56:22.720 --> 2:56:26.520 you kind of again a confirmation of something. And it 2:56:26.680 --> 2:56:29.959 probably did more to wreck any kind of academic pursuit 2:56:30.040 --> 2:56:33.360 that I would have ever had, you know, because because 2:56:33.520 --> 2:56:35.200 and now in the back of my head, and I 2:56:35.280 --> 2:56:37.960 had that band and we started playing at other schools 2:56:38.000 --> 2:56:41.080 you know that wanted to have throwback sock hops and 2:56:41.200 --> 2:56:44.120 you know that kind of stuff. And I mean I 2:56:44.160 --> 2:56:46.600 had like a Golden may suit done after that, and 2:56:47.080 --> 2:56:48.640 it was ridiculous, but. 2:56:48.680 --> 2:56:48.920 It was this. 2:56:49.080 --> 2:56:51.040 It was rockable because I was showing them. I so like, well, 2:56:51.080 --> 2:56:53.480 what about this the Everly Brothers and Buddy Holly stuff 2:56:53.680 --> 2:56:57.000 which had more hellbilly to it. And I didn't really 2:56:57.200 --> 2:57:01.560 delve into that aspect of what I was going to 2:57:01.600 --> 2:57:04.880 do till I started writing right at my senior year 2:57:04.879 --> 2:57:08.240 of high school and writing stuff to sing. You know, 2:57:08.520 --> 2:57:11.039 I wrote something called Lovely Brown, and I wrote something 2:57:11.080 --> 2:57:16.960 else called Anyway. And after moving out here to the 2:57:17.000 --> 2:57:20.040 West Coast, because by then I knew because that was 2:57:20.080 --> 2:57:22.600 in those years where the transition was happening. You know, 2:57:22.760 --> 2:57:24.600 the whole thing with the Bakersfield be is I told 2:57:24.640 --> 2:57:30.720 you is about how the California sound springs forward from 2:57:30.800 --> 2:57:33.640 the Tom Jod wrote, you know, from the Great Sarathia, 2:57:34.160 --> 2:57:36.840 when Buck and Merle's family end up out here in 2:57:37.040 --> 2:57:42.600 labor camps, right and they bring that music from Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, 2:57:43.240 --> 2:57:46.800 the dust Bowl to the West Coast. And then there 2:57:46.800 --> 2:57:49.400 are those that preceded the Maddox Brothers and Rose all 2:57:49.480 --> 2:57:52.880 that stuff, Woody Guthrie alllet But then by the fifties, 2:57:53.200 --> 2:57:56.760 late fifties, Buck starts to have the sixties in the sixties, 2:57:56.879 --> 2:57:59.760 Mrle and Chris Hillman and I have talked about it. 2:58:00.320 --> 2:58:04.040 He was this West Coast mandolin playing kid who loved 2:58:04.040 --> 2:58:08.360 bluegrass music right late fifties, early sixties and ends up 2:58:09.320 --> 2:58:13.760 by default the bass player for the Birds. Because I'm 2:58:13.800 --> 2:58:15.640 trying to remember the name of the guy that produced 2:58:15.720 --> 2:58:18.200 and put that together. But Tickner, I think was his 2:58:18.320 --> 2:58:22.440 last name. He knew Chris from the bluegrass band that 2:58:22.480 --> 2:58:25.920 he'd been in and had recorded him and said, hey, 2:58:27.480 --> 2:58:31.400 I think it was Jeane Clark first, and then Jim 2:58:31.520 --> 2:58:35.120 mgwin at the Troubadour put themselves together, right, And so 2:58:35.440 --> 2:58:40.119 all that was going on in my late adolescent early teens, 2:58:40.640 --> 2:58:43.520 and I started hearing it, and it was the hidden 2:58:43.600 --> 2:58:46.560 part of my culture right that I couldn't have much 2:58:46.600 --> 2:58:49.200 affinity with with those kids at that high school in Columbus, 2:58:49.640 --> 2:58:53.920 they didn't understand what I listened to at home. Like 2:58:54.080 --> 2:58:57.800 my best friend across the street in that track house 2:58:58.760 --> 2:59:02.520 world that we were. Now, his mother was from South Carolina, 2:59:02.600 --> 2:59:04.520 but he didn't grow up with that same kind of 2:59:04.640 --> 2:59:08.320 hillbil edge, but he watched me listen to Stonewall Jackson Records. 2:59:08.440 --> 2:59:12.200 I mean, you know, fourteen fifteen years old I've Got 2:59:12.280 --> 2:59:15.240 Life to Go, which is written by George Jones. That 2:59:15.360 --> 2:59:18.680 song is I've been in here eighteen years and still 2:59:18.760 --> 2:59:21.040 got life to go. He talks about his family left. 2:59:21.120 --> 2:59:24.960 Its brilliant, brilliant song. George Jones wrote it. Stonewall Jackson 2:59:25.520 --> 2:59:28.600 had a country hit with it. But my dad had 2:59:28.640 --> 2:59:32.680 bought that album as an apology to my mother. It's 2:59:32.760 --> 2:59:35.520 called Don't Be Angry with Me. It was the hit 2:59:35.720 --> 2:59:39.280 off of it, Don't Be Angry with Me, darling h 2:59:39.520 --> 2:59:43.640 I fail to understand all your little because they'd had 2:59:43.680 --> 2:59:46.640 an argument. That's his way of he brought this album 2:59:46.720 --> 2:59:50.960 home to her to apologize. So I was listening to 2:59:51.160 --> 2:59:53.920 all the other stuff on that record. Johnny Horton. My 2:59:54.040 --> 2:59:57.120 mother was in the Columbia Record Club. The only thing 2:59:57.360 --> 3:00:01.040 that she ever regretted being in there was when she 3:00:01.400 --> 3:00:03.240 ordered because she was a big fan of Herbalbert and 3:00:03.320 --> 3:00:06.320 Tijuana Brass, and got the Whipped Cream album and my 3:00:06.440 --> 3:00:08.840 brother and I got it first at like nine or 3:00:09.000 --> 3:00:12.640 ten years old. I think it was eleven, which was 3:00:12.720 --> 3:00:15.720 even more dangerous space. I always look at that album 3:00:15.840 --> 3:00:19.800 cover and she forever regretted that she ordered that album, 3:00:19.800 --> 3:00:22.680 although she loved the music on it. But so I 3:00:22.800 --> 3:00:25.560 was listening, but my dad had and like I said, 3:00:25.879 --> 3:00:28.080 the Johnny cashed up. But she had the Johnny Horton 3:00:28.800 --> 3:00:33.280 stuff that had whispering pines. You know, of course the 3:00:33.400 --> 3:00:37.160 hits Bismarck and all that north to Alaska. But the 3:00:37.320 --> 3:00:39.240 other one that I clung to. I was playing it 3:00:39.320 --> 3:00:42.280 in clubs after I was out here in southern California. 3:00:42.280 --> 3:00:45.360 I would do when it's springtime in Alaska, it's forty below, 3:00:45.560 --> 3:00:48.880 you know. Just I mean all that they didn't know 3:00:48.920 --> 3:00:51.640 about my peers, they wouldn't understand. 3:00:52.280 --> 3:00:52.440 You know. 3:00:53.040 --> 3:00:55.039 I had a cousin, Mike Christian. He played a bit 3:00:55.080 --> 3:00:57.720 of guitar, and he got it because his family were 3:00:57.760 --> 3:01:01.720 the same hillbilly transplants, but not many did. So it 3:01:01.840 --> 3:01:03.920 was a kind of a hidden part of me. But 3:01:04.080 --> 3:01:07.080 what country rock happening did. And I've said that the 3:01:07.120 --> 3:01:09.800 Brito Brothers were the most famous band that nobody ever heard, 3:01:10.520 --> 3:01:15.080 you know, their reputation preceded him and out out distanced 3:01:15.120 --> 3:01:19.000 there the reality right of their records, And Chris and 3:01:19.040 --> 3:01:22.199 I talked about that, and I knew of Graham Parsons 3:01:22.240 --> 3:01:25.320 out of that moment and him being these long haired 3:01:25.400 --> 3:01:29.640 kind of hippie cowboy, you know, guys doing this thing, 3:01:29.760 --> 3:01:33.440 and Mike Nessmuth from the Monkeys was doing it, you know. 3:01:33.480 --> 3:01:36.400 And then when he post Monkeys formed the first national band, 3:01:36.600 --> 3:01:39.959 right and did Joe Anne and standing in the lonely 3:01:40.080 --> 3:01:46.080 light of the silver move all that, you know, and 3:01:46.280 --> 3:01:49.360 I was like, you know what maybe country music and 3:01:49.440 --> 3:01:52.120 the thing Brian and Hearn did with Emmy Lou Harris, 3:01:53.000 --> 3:01:56.959 and she gives that credit to Brian that after Graham died, 3:01:57.040 --> 3:01:59.240 she went back into the folk scene, back to d C, 3:01:59.560 --> 3:02:03.400 you know, and kind of, you know, just in shock 3:02:03.560 --> 3:02:06.840 and and I think in a moment of depression back there, 3:02:07.280 --> 3:02:10.480 and I think it was I can't remember Mary Martin, 3:02:11.480 --> 3:02:17.000 that from the record label that showed Emmy and gave 3:02:17.080 --> 3:02:21.080 demos of Emmy's stuff to Brian, and Brian had a 3:02:21.160 --> 3:02:22.880 deal with Warner and he moved her out here and 3:02:22.959 --> 3:02:25.560 he put the band together, the first hot band, and 3:02:25.760 --> 3:02:28.120 more so than the Linda Ronstats because the first couple 3:02:28.120 --> 3:02:30.440 of Londa Ronstadt appems I was a huge fan of too. 3:02:30.840 --> 3:02:33.040 And then Peter Asher came aboard and they kind of 3:02:33.080 --> 3:02:35.760 moved it into the pop I can as you know, 3:02:35.840 --> 3:02:41.080 the iconography that became her sound, you know. And then 3:02:41.240 --> 3:02:44.240 of course the Begat and Begat was you know, you 3:02:44.400 --> 3:02:46.520 got the birds and all that stuff. The Sweetheart of 3:02:46.560 --> 3:02:48.520 the Rodeo album that happened. But I didn't have it 3:02:48.560 --> 3:02:51.080 because they am an older sibling to direct me there. 3:02:51.120 --> 3:02:52.960 You know. It wasn't the hits. I just had what 3:02:53.080 --> 3:02:57.880 I could find on my own. But I felt inside 3:02:57.959 --> 3:03:03.520 and creating scle Revival was, yeah, there were. John was 3:03:03.600 --> 3:03:05.840 a hero of mine just because of what he was 3:03:06.000 --> 3:03:09.520 doing musically, and as I grew to know what it 3:03:09.760 --> 3:03:13.480 was later he's writing the songs, playing the lead guitar, 3:03:13.600 --> 3:03:16.160 producing the records really you know, and control, you know. 3:03:16.640 --> 3:03:20.400 And then he did that Blue Ridge Ranger solo excursion 3:03:20.440 --> 3:03:24.520 they did after it, and he took again, and there 3:03:24.640 --> 3:03:28.600 became this pertinence of country music having its moment again. 3:03:29.440 --> 3:03:33.400 So I realized because I had an epiphany one day 3:03:33.440 --> 3:03:35.560 when I was the last trip I ever took with 3:03:35.640 --> 3:03:40.800 my aunt and my mother, when I was still just 3:03:40.920 --> 3:03:47.920 in to Kentucky. We sorry bumpedo that mike with the 3:03:48.040 --> 3:03:51.760 last trip I took with them, my aunt's Cadillac, my 3:03:51.920 --> 3:03:53.800 sister and I went. My brother didn't. He stayed on 3:03:53.879 --> 3:03:56.680 with my dad that weekend and we went down and 3:03:56.879 --> 3:04:00.560 I remember listening as we crossed the river from Ohio 3:04:00.720 --> 3:04:04.119 and to Kentucky, and these AM stations began. You would 3:04:04.160 --> 3:04:07.760 pick up i mean, religious programs even during the week 3:04:08.840 --> 3:04:12.520 and it was very rural radio. All of a sudden 3:04:12.560 --> 3:04:16.680 you were there and it was exposed and hardcore hillbilly stuff. 3:04:17.560 --> 3:04:22.400 And I remembered on that drive this is maybe at 3:04:22.440 --> 3:04:25.720 that point fifteen or sixteen. I wasn't driving it, so 3:04:25.800 --> 3:04:28.680 I was probably fifteen years old, sixteen, but old enough 3:04:28.760 --> 3:04:33.000 to feel the future, you know, the sense I wasn't 3:04:33.040 --> 3:04:35.640 going to be here. And I remember looking across at 3:04:35.640 --> 3:04:39.400 the hills when we were just north, just out of Ashley, Kentucky, 3:04:39.879 --> 3:04:43.800 and headed into Catholicsburg, where I would always hear about 3:04:43.840 --> 3:04:46.200 the car wreck where they went off and they flipped. 3:04:46.200 --> 3:04:49.320 They're lucky they lived, my mother and my aunt and 3:04:49.440 --> 3:04:55.280 uncle going back home and flipped a car. Because it 3:04:55.400 --> 3:04:58.920 was just a dangerous, dangerous road. And I remember we 3:04:59.040 --> 3:05:01.640 got past there, talked about that again. Every time we 3:05:01.720 --> 3:05:03.400 went through it. We had to hear about the wreck. 3:05:04.040 --> 3:05:09.800 And I remember looking out and thinking and not knowing 3:05:10.000 --> 3:05:12.400 anything about what that meant or why you have the 3:05:12.560 --> 3:05:16.520 thought other than you know, like unbridled ego. I don't. 3:05:17.000 --> 3:05:20.080 I thought, I'm supposed to. I'm going to sing about this, 3:05:20.640 --> 3:05:25.040 about these people in this world. I'm supposed to. I 3:05:25.400 --> 3:05:31.600 felt like that epiphanous moment was that in retrospect, I've 3:05:31.640 --> 3:05:34.960 thought about it several times over the years that ensued 3:05:35.000 --> 3:05:40.039 and once my career started, because you don't You can 3:05:40.800 --> 3:05:43.720 attempt to plan to have a journey, but you cannot 3:05:43.840 --> 3:05:48.880 be prepared for the topography of the journey. Right the 3:05:49.000 --> 3:05:52.720 landscape is going to be different than you imagined, and 3:05:53.000 --> 3:05:55.600 and you won't be prepared for it. I wasn't. I 3:05:55.720 --> 3:05:58.560 wasn't prepared for that, you know, for the for the 3:06:00.320 --> 3:06:03.440 the physical geography of you know, you can look at 3:06:03.480 --> 3:06:07.320 a map, but that's one dimensional. You can look on 3:06:07.360 --> 3:06:10.840 a map all day long and plan and think, but 3:06:10.959 --> 3:06:13.840 when you're really there, it's different. And I remember that, 3:06:14.120 --> 3:06:16.640 as I said, looking back over the years and thinking 3:06:16.720 --> 3:06:19.240 of that moment in that car with them, it was 3:06:19.320 --> 3:06:22.280 just a silent thought as that radio was playing all 3:06:22.360 --> 3:06:28.680 this various fading in and out am station stuff, and 3:06:29.680 --> 3:06:32.520 I'm supposed to this is what I'm supposed to talk 3:06:32.560 --> 3:06:36.400 about and do. And then after I was here for 3:06:36.440 --> 3:06:38.320 about a year and a half or so, I came 3:06:38.360 --> 3:06:41.800 across the very first John Prime album, that first Atlantic 3:06:41.879 --> 3:06:44.480 record that he did with the Memphis Boys. As you 3:06:44.600 --> 3:06:47.760 read the book, the Memphis Boys not great writing, but 3:06:48.200 --> 3:06:52.720 it's such a wonderful That's Chips Moments group that started out. 3:06:52.800 --> 3:06:55.440 The first record they ever had was I'm Your Puppet 3:06:55.680 --> 3:06:59.440 that he and Dan pencut and which became an East 3:06:59.560 --> 3:07:03.640 Lams like Sophie I'm Your Puppet. The Lowder going to 3:07:03.760 --> 3:07:07.320 just always imagine Art Bell not was it Art? I 3:07:07.400 --> 3:07:11.440 mean Art Lebaux Leau remember Art Lebau, I'm Your all 3:07:11.520 --> 3:07:14.680 those songs. Uh was it k R l A that 3:07:14.840 --> 3:07:18.280 Art lebaul was? Yeah, yeah, kr LA the amer I 3:07:18.360 --> 3:07:20.360 mean that was La. You know in the seventies, right, 3:07:20.400 --> 3:07:22.600 it was still there. You know, the you know, the culture, 3:07:22.959 --> 3:07:27.080 the car culture, you know hot Rod, those songs. But 3:07:27.360 --> 3:07:31.440 they did that and they made the spectrum on those guys, 3:07:32.160 --> 3:07:36.600 the Memphis Boys, like the Wrecking Crew, they did stuff 3:07:37.440 --> 3:07:41.560 that was I mean, Dan Penn produced the box tops, 3:07:42.000 --> 3:07:44.360 give Me a Dig Up One Air, Alex Chilton right 3:07:44.680 --> 3:07:47.640 of these teenagers, and he was so his voice sounded 3:07:47.720 --> 3:07:50.000 like that from what I've read, because he was so 3:07:50.240 --> 3:07:53.040 jacked up. See, he and his girlfriend were so excited 3:07:53.040 --> 3:07:54.800 he was going to go in and record. They stayed 3:07:54.840 --> 3:07:56.840 up for like two days straight before and they drank 3:07:56.920 --> 3:07:59.440 and he was all messed up when he walked in 3:07:59.440 --> 3:08:02.640 and sang that way. The cry like a baby's one 3:08:02.680 --> 3:08:05.880 of my favorite too, because Dan Penn wrote that, right, Yeah, 3:08:06.000 --> 3:08:10.840 the electric cetar. Right. But but those guys went from 3:08:12.080 --> 3:08:14.560 that's end of the spectrum. And they also did the 3:08:14.640 --> 3:08:19.160 gentries I keep on dancing, sades out and fades back in. Yeah, 3:08:19.760 --> 3:08:24.560 and and and they did that. They did Neil Diamond 3:08:24.959 --> 3:08:28.279 like a month before they cut the comeback record for Elvis, 3:08:28.720 --> 3:08:31.760 the Memphis record. That's the one they did. And I 3:08:31.920 --> 3:08:34.240 was reading in the in the book it was the 3:08:34.320 --> 3:08:39.640 guitar player for Oh, I just went completely blank on. 3:08:40.879 --> 3:08:45.280 Oh that's it's horrible. I can't even anyway. Uh, he 3:08:45.440 --> 3:08:47.800 was saying, you know, we were non plussed you and Elvis. 3:08:47.879 --> 3:08:50.360 He said, yeah, sure, Elvis wants to come and cut 3:08:50.440 --> 3:08:53.320 with us. He knows who we are. Now we've just 3:08:53.400 --> 3:08:56.040 cut Neil Diamond. Sweet Caroline we've done this and that. 3:08:56.560 --> 3:08:59.000 And he said, but the night of the session, because 3:08:59.040 --> 3:09:01.280 it was at night, because you know, started at like 3:09:01.400 --> 3:09:04.240 seven in the evening or hey, he said, the door opened. 3:09:04.440 --> 3:09:06.640 He said, we were all sitting there just going yeah, 3:09:06.640 --> 3:09:10.680 I guess again. And he said, we looked up and went, 3:09:11.840 --> 3:09:14.960 holy ship, that's Elvis. He said. There was nobody that 3:09:15.120 --> 3:09:18.000 ever came to that studio but that. But to finish 3:09:18.080 --> 3:09:22.920 that thought, they did that spectrum of music. I mean, 3:09:22.920 --> 3:09:25.400 they were doing all the Wilson picket stuff like Mustang 3:09:25.480 --> 3:09:28.360 staly and allying. They were doing some of it first 3:09:28.400 --> 3:09:31.400 in muscle shows until he built the studio American Recorders 3:09:31.480 --> 3:09:34.880 in Memphis, but Elvis that was in Memphis, Neil Diamond 3:09:35.440 --> 3:09:39.880 and then they did John Primece first time because Wexler 3:09:40.560 --> 3:09:44.640 right at Atlantic that he heard the I'm your puppy, 3:09:44.680 --> 3:09:46.920 He said, who did this? He said, I want to 3:09:46.959 --> 3:09:48.920 wreath it a cut with them, and that's the famous 3:09:49.040 --> 3:09:52.600 story of how they went. But and then she left 3:09:52.720 --> 3:09:54.959 the whole session, you know, and fame because of whatever 3:09:55.120 --> 3:09:57.200 was said to her. There was some you know, a 3:09:57.280 --> 3:10:01.640 horrible off color remark or whatever, and he said, she 3:10:01.680 --> 3:10:03.880 won't come back down there. He called Chip's moment, he said, 3:10:03.920 --> 3:10:07.080 but she liked you guys, and he said, she ain't 3:10:07.120 --> 3:10:10.960 coming back to Memphis or must shows, he said, but 3:10:11.680 --> 3:10:13.320 she wants you to do it, but I'll bring it 3:10:13.400 --> 3:10:15.280 to New York. So he brought those cats up there. 3:10:15.520 --> 3:10:18.440 And you know who's on on that chain of fools 3:10:18.879 --> 3:10:21.480 because Dan Penn had written do Right Woman for and 3:10:21.720 --> 3:10:23.640 and he was smart. You know what they did. They 3:10:23.720 --> 3:10:26.880 let her play piano, that's what Wexle was smart, but 3:10:27.040 --> 3:10:29.800 d the first time all of her career after that 3:10:29.879 --> 3:10:33.160 on Clembing, she'd not you know, been allowed to company 3:10:33.240 --> 3:10:36.080 herself and she played you and sang do it and 3:10:36.360 --> 3:10:39.080 it took off. But Chaine of Fools is Joe South 3:10:39.160 --> 3:10:44.200 doing that pop stables literally that guitar change, change chang. 3:10:44.959 --> 3:10:48.600 It's amazing they cut. Did you never see her? No? 3:10:48.800 --> 3:10:50.920 I never saw her. And I saw her an Award show. 3:10:51.400 --> 3:10:53.400 I saw her do one you know like that, but 3:10:53.440 --> 3:10:55.879 I didn't see her in colle She it was you. 3:10:55.920 --> 3:10:59.560 Know, it was very interesting because she knew who she was. 3:11:00.040 --> 3:11:05.560 Yeah okay, and she sauntered out and she just delivered. 3:11:07.400 --> 3:11:09.120 It was it was kind of like the Elvis moment 3:11:09.240 --> 3:11:12.320 walking Oh, that's Elvis. Yeah, well that's a wreatha. She 3:11:12.480 --> 3:11:15.840 can do it effortlessly. She can blow your mind and 3:11:16.040 --> 3:11:18.880 walk off the stage knowing she's a wreatha. It's not 3:11:19.000 --> 3:11:21.360 like she's feeding off of you. It's like your stunt. 3:11:22.560 --> 3:11:24.800 Just dropped the mic and say exactly. 3:11:25.520 --> 3:11:28.160 It's like, yeah, I mean I can remember she said 3:11:28.240 --> 3:11:30.840 when you're a chain chain chain, oh, because that that 3:11:31.000 --> 3:11:32.160 was really the killer. 3:11:32.120 --> 3:11:35.160 That opening guitar riff, and it's a it's like like 3:11:35.320 --> 3:11:37.600 Joe South. I found out later Joe South is who's 3:11:37.600 --> 3:11:40.520 playing that guitar with those guys, because he knew Chips 3:11:40.560 --> 3:11:43.200 and Chips was from Atlanta and that's where I mean 3:11:43.320 --> 3:11:45.520 Joe South. That's another story altogether of somebody. 3:11:45.600 --> 3:11:46.080 Joe South. 3:11:46.160 --> 3:11:48.840 He had the one hit. We had two. He had 3:11:48.879 --> 3:11:50.600 walked a mile of my shoes and in the games 3:11:50.640 --> 3:11:52.520 people play, Okay, I forgot the first one. 3:11:52.920 --> 3:11:54.320 But could he survive? Is? 3:11:54.840 --> 3:11:55.120 Could he? 3:11:55.520 --> 3:11:56.680 Did he write anything else? 3:11:56.840 --> 3:12:05.320 Oh? My god, Bob, he wrote He wrote Nana Hush hush, 3:12:05.440 --> 3:12:10.240 deep purple, I think out here name now hush hush. 3:12:10.600 --> 3:12:13.280 And he wrote one of my favorites. It wasn't a 3:12:13.360 --> 3:12:18.840 huge it, but it was he wrote down in the 3:12:19.000 --> 3:12:22.080 Boondocks down in There, down in It with Billy Joe 3:12:22.200 --> 3:12:26.119 Royal Billy. You remember the labor from down in the Boon. 3:12:26.240 --> 3:12:28.960 Do you remember what label the Deep Purple record was on? 3:12:29.280 --> 3:12:36.200 No for Grammaton It was Bill Cosby's label. Okay, since yeah, 3:12:36.600 --> 3:12:39.520 since we're so deep into this, what did Billy Joe 3:12:39.720 --> 3:12:40.840 Shaver survive on? 3:12:42.080 --> 3:12:45.360 Well? He wrote that whole Honkey Talks and Heroes first 3:12:45.400 --> 3:12:48.760 album for Whaling, right, and his son, Eddie Shaver. What 3:12:48.879 --> 3:12:51.960 a sweet soul, a kid that grew up right in 3:12:52.000 --> 3:12:53.560 the thick of it. I mean he was with Whaling 3:12:53.600 --> 3:12:55.400 and all of them, and Willie and I mean, you know, 3:12:55.640 --> 3:12:58.320 from the time he was a year old wandering around 3:12:59.080 --> 3:13:02.520 and Eddie had demons, but he was such a sweetheart 3:13:02.600 --> 3:13:05.320 and what a great guitar player. I saw him play 3:13:05.400 --> 3:13:10.199 with his dad at the club Lingerie when he was fifteen, 3:13:10.440 --> 3:13:15.680 maybe years old, in nineteen eighty three or four, because 3:13:15.800 --> 3:13:17.680 right as so I was putting out my EP now 3:13:17.720 --> 3:13:22.959 it was eighty four. And then in eighty seven Pete Anderson, 3:13:22.959 --> 3:13:25.280 who had been playing lead guitar with me and going out, 3:13:26.000 --> 3:13:29.160 couldn't do it. He had fourteen offers to produce. He said, 3:13:29.200 --> 3:13:30.800 I got to do this. I got to stay here. 3:13:30.920 --> 3:13:32.680 We have to find a guy. I said, I know 3:13:32.760 --> 3:13:35.360 who to call, and I called Eddie Shaver and he 3:13:35.440 --> 3:13:38.600 can't do it. Yeah, Eddie Shaver played with me that year, 3:13:38.600 --> 3:13:40.280 and he did it again in eighty nine when Pete 3:13:40.280 --> 3:13:43.440 couldn't go out for you know, producing, and Eddie twured 3:13:43.680 --> 3:13:47.640 in eighty nine again into ninety and just I mean 3:13:47.720 --> 3:13:50.360 a whole different style playing. He's a Texas big hand, 3:13:50.480 --> 3:13:53.600 you know, lead player. But Billy Joe, I mean, he's 3:13:53.640 --> 3:13:55.880 written some great stuff. I'm just an old chunk of coal. 3:13:56.080 --> 3:13:58.400 John Anderson had a huge hit. But you know I'm 3:13:58.440 --> 3:14:01.400 going to be a diamond someday. That rye tongue in cheek. 3:14:01.440 --> 3:14:05.840 But but what was I talking about with the chain 3:14:05.920 --> 3:14:09.720 of old Joe South? The other one, the other one 3:14:09.800 --> 3:14:11.640 that he wrote because he owes songs. He was on 3:14:11.760 --> 3:14:15.200 a plane to la to meet with his publisher to 3:14:15.280 --> 3:14:17.840 get a new check. You know, he's living on the 3:14:18.040 --> 3:14:21.880 you know advances, and he and he hadn't delivered two 3:14:22.000 --> 3:14:25.480 or three songs, right And on the plane ride from 3:14:25.600 --> 3:14:29.840 Atlanta out here, he wrote, I beg your pardon. I 3:14:30.000 --> 3:14:35.240 never promised you. Rose Garden along with the sunshine. He's 3:14:35.320 --> 3:14:37.880 got to come a little rain some time. So, I 3:14:37.959 --> 3:14:40.720 mean he wrote some great stuff for other people. The 3:14:40.840 --> 3:14:42.840 one that I love is don't it make you want 3:14:42.879 --> 3:14:45.920 to go Home? Which I think bj Thomas had a 3:14:46.640 --> 3:14:50.120 don't make you want to go home? Children? Don't make 3:14:50.160 --> 3:14:53.240 you want to go home? All guy's chilling, get weary 3:14:53.400 --> 3:14:57.600 when they roam. Don't make you want to go home? Anyway. 3:14:58.680 --> 3:15:01.920 Well, you know I grew up you know where we 3:15:02.080 --> 3:15:06.000 only heard those songs when they crossed over. Yeah, it's 3:15:06.080 --> 3:15:08.480 like Tom Petty. One of the last times I saw 3:15:08.760 --> 3:15:11.120 he played some country song and he called you know, 3:15:11.320 --> 3:15:14.359 today's modern country music is the rock of the seventies. 3:15:14.800 --> 3:15:17.600 If you grew up in the Northeast and you hit 3:15:17.680 --> 3:15:20.720 the country station, you saw the shit kickers. It's not 3:15:21.000 --> 3:15:25.160 like today. So there's a lot of history we don't know. Conversely, 3:15:25.280 --> 3:15:27.880 I have to ask you to what degree were you 3:15:28.000 --> 3:15:28.800 into the Beatles? 3:15:28.879 --> 3:15:31.600 In the rock seat? Oh? I was. You couldn't escape 3:15:31.640 --> 3:15:34.720 the Beatles because am rady right? You know the buttons 3:15:35.080 --> 3:15:39.760 And my mom listened to every station she loved. The 3:15:40.240 --> 3:15:43.120 Big Top forty station was on her car radio. My 3:15:43.280 --> 3:15:46.960 dad was the Hillbalay station, you know WMN I was 3:15:47.000 --> 3:15:50.080 the hillbalay station you didn't get in his car, and 3:15:50.160 --> 3:15:51.960 it wasn't on anything else. It was on that I 3:15:52.080 --> 3:15:55.040 was hearing. The one that crossed over a little bit 3:15:55.200 --> 3:15:59.720 was Hintson Cargil with the skip Rope. The Doom Doom 3:16:00.520 --> 3:16:03.320 skipp borro ain't a kind of fun and what to 3:16:03.480 --> 3:16:07.440 children say, skippero. It was about a divorce and a couple, 3:16:07.600 --> 3:16:10.119 And it was like there was that kind of stuff 3:16:10.200 --> 3:16:14.000 going on at that time, late sixties, the psychobilly era 3:16:14.200 --> 3:16:16.440 had kind of taken hold in Nashville and there were 3:16:16.520 --> 3:16:20.200 crossover hits. Harper Valley Pta that was a huge top hit, 3:16:20.680 --> 3:16:23.040 and that was a straight up hillbilly record to begin with. 3:16:23.240 --> 3:16:25.240 It was out of you know, kind of the country 3:16:25.320 --> 3:16:29.840 polatant moment. But so all that was going on, I mean, 3:16:30.640 --> 3:16:32.120 you know, and then by the early seventies you got 3:16:32.200 --> 3:16:35.000 Jerry Reid breaking out of the Nashville scene doing Amos 3:16:35.120 --> 3:16:38.440 Moses and all that stuff. You had Tony Joe White 3:16:38.879 --> 3:16:41.960 doing Poke Salad Anning which almost first covered and so 3:16:42.120 --> 3:16:46.000 there was this that was the beauty of Top forty radio. 3:16:46.160 --> 3:16:48.560 Really was that right in that moment? 3:16:48.640 --> 3:16:52.240 Well, I remember the last crossover record was Charlie Rich 3:16:52.840 --> 3:16:56.880 Beautiful Girl in the World. After that, everybody had an 3:16:57.000 --> 3:16:59.320 FM radio. Yeah, they didn't have to listen to the 3:16:59.400 --> 3:17:02.200 top four, right. It became segregary when you come like 3:17:02.280 --> 3:17:04.560 you know, Polk Salad anyhow. I just know those listening to. 3:17:04.600 --> 3:17:08.360 The top forty. Yeah, no, it was and I didn't. Uh. 3:17:08.520 --> 3:17:11.280 And Charlie Rich, yes, along with the other guy that 3:17:11.440 --> 3:17:14.120 Freddie Hart had Easy Lovin that crossed over, which was 3:17:14.200 --> 3:17:17.600 this West Coast thing and you know he did, uh, 3:17:18.240 --> 3:17:20.920 Charlie Rich with the most Beautiful Girl. Yeah, and Behind 3:17:21.000 --> 3:17:26.880 Closed Doors that thing right, yeah, yeah, Behind Closed Doors 3:17:27.040 --> 3:17:29.520 was you know. The funny thing about Charlie Rich was 3:17:30.360 --> 3:17:32.280 he was out of Arkansas and he was studying. He 3:17:32.320 --> 3:17:36.160 was a very literate cat he was, I mean really musically. Yeah, 3:17:36.240 --> 3:17:39.520 he was a jazz piano player, right, and studying I 3:17:39.600 --> 3:17:43.160 think at Arkansas State. And he went to Memphis and 3:17:43.440 --> 3:17:48.160 had an audition with with Jack Clements, right, you know 3:17:48.360 --> 3:17:52.240 who produced Charlie Lee and everybody, and and worked with 3:17:52.440 --> 3:17:55.880 Sam Phillips, you know, after Elvis left, Jack was and 3:17:56.040 --> 3:17:58.840 Johnny Cash all that you know, Home of the Blues 3:17:58.840 --> 3:18:00.920 and all that stuff, you know, was with Jack Clements 3:18:01.440 --> 3:18:05.120 and he wrote, what was it? He wrote, I guess 3:18:05.160 --> 3:18:07.480 things happened that way. I think was him. I don't 3:18:07.600 --> 3:18:13.880 like it, but I guess things happened anyway. Jack. He 3:18:14.400 --> 3:18:18.880 auditions Charlie Rich and he said, not bad kid. He said, 3:18:18.920 --> 3:18:22.480 you're really good. You're very sophisticated, accomplished musician, aren't you. 3:18:22.520 --> 3:18:24.240 And he said, well, I've studied. 3:18:23.959 --> 3:18:24.280 This, sir. 3:18:25.959 --> 3:18:28.960 And he said he dropped the needle on one of 3:18:29.120 --> 3:18:32.000 Jerry Lee's before he they had just done, hadn't released. 3:18:32.080 --> 3:18:35.600 He started playing Jerry Lewis. He said, you know, Son, 3:18:35.720 --> 3:18:39.000 He said, when you can play that bad, won't you 3:18:39.080 --> 3:18:44.600 come back and see me? But you can play that poorly, 3:18:44.879 --> 3:18:47.200 come back and see you. Right, that was And then 3:18:47.360 --> 3:18:49.960 Charlie wrote he did sign with Son and he put 3:18:50.000 --> 3:18:52.960 out Lonely Weekends. That was when his Sun record. It 3:18:53.040 --> 3:18:56.160 was like Orbison. They didn't have they didn't blow up 3:18:56.200 --> 3:18:59.160 on Son. You know, Roy had this day. 3:19:00.040 --> 3:19:03.480 People don't realize how different Nashville and Memphis are. 3:19:03.840 --> 3:19:05.840 Oh, you're a student of the game. 3:19:06.240 --> 3:19:10.440 They hear that Memphis is like Mississippi. Oh yeah, Doc, 3:19:10.800 --> 3:19:12.360 it's like a whole different thing. 3:19:12.480 --> 3:19:16.960 Yeah, it's another world. And and uh, and even Elvis. 3:19:17.000 --> 3:19:19.320 There was a story that I hold heard George Klein 3:19:19.400 --> 3:19:23.080 tell in the Elvis channel one time about when Sam 3:19:23.160 --> 3:19:26.440 Phillips sold Elvis to sold the contract to our ce. 3:19:27.240 --> 3:19:29.400 He warned, oh, he said, Now, Elvis, he said, you're 3:19:29.400 --> 3:19:32.280 going to be around those guys and they're gonna, you know, 3:19:32.360 --> 3:19:33.880 start cuting. He said, they're going to try and change 3:19:33.879 --> 3:19:36.440 you because they're not they don't understand you said, I 3:19:36.520 --> 3:19:39.600 guarantee you they will not understand what you've done and 3:19:39.720 --> 3:19:43.160 what we've done. He said, And you're a really good singer, 3:19:43.520 --> 3:19:47.240 Sam Phillips, this is what he told Elvis, he said. 3:19:48.320 --> 3:19:50.800 And don't let them change you, he said, And don't 3:19:50.920 --> 3:19:54.920 let them change your band, because you've put your sound together. 3:19:54.959 --> 3:19:58.760 You know, Elvis in DJ, the drummer Fontaine, you know 3:19:58.800 --> 3:20:01.120 who come on board with him the last year and 3:20:01.160 --> 3:20:03.360 a half before he signed with the RCA, because they 3:20:03.360 --> 3:20:06.680 were a trio first Scottie and Bill Black and you 3:20:06.760 --> 3:20:09.920 know upright bass and he said, man, he said, well, 3:20:09.959 --> 3:20:12.480 people don't realize that's Elvis playing that rhythm guitar and 3:20:12.520 --> 3:20:15.840 all those Sun records that slapped them backed because they're 3:20:15.840 --> 3:20:18.720 no drums, he said. And I never played with a 3:20:18.800 --> 3:20:21.120 guy that had as good a right hand on the 3:20:21.200 --> 3:20:25.240 guitar as Elvis, he said, or that sang with the 3:20:25.400 --> 3:20:29.920 sense of time. That's what people don't get about Elvis Presley, 3:20:30.640 --> 3:20:33.800 you know, is how good a singer he was in 3:20:33.959 --> 3:20:37.640 terms of that's why rock and roll became rock and roll. 3:20:37.800 --> 3:20:40.879 In Capitol Letters and Little Richard, which there's a new 3:20:40.959 --> 3:20:44.039 documentary on him, I have everything, which is I liked 3:20:44.080 --> 3:20:48.600 watching Richard met Little Richard. Huh Old. Yeah. 3:20:49.440 --> 3:20:52.600 The funniest thing about Richard is he was the same guy. 3:20:52.879 --> 3:20:57.879 Yep, yep, he was. Little Richard was like he would 3:20:57.879 --> 3:20:59.880 come and he would see me and he did gravity, 3:21:00.120 --> 3:21:03.560 Oh baby, come here, and and everybody had to pray 3:21:03.640 --> 3:21:05.959 with him, you know, you had to pray prayer circle. 3:21:06.040 --> 3:21:09.160 Marty Stewart had me they were cutting over I don't know. 3:21:09.240 --> 3:21:10.960 It was a I don't know what it was a 3:21:11.080 --> 3:21:14.720 don Imus record that we were all anyway, he and 3:21:14.879 --> 3:21:16.400 he said you got to come over here me. He said, 3:21:16.400 --> 3:21:18.280 I got Richard of the Village recorders, and I went 3:21:18.320 --> 3:21:20.200 over that night and I hung out and he spotted me. 3:21:20.640 --> 3:21:23.000 He was living at the top of the old you know, 3:21:23.160 --> 3:21:25.680 the rock and roll Hiatt on. So I said, you know, 3:21:25.760 --> 3:21:27.240 he was living there for a year or so and 3:21:27.320 --> 3:21:29.400 I was doing a video on the roof and he 3:21:29.480 --> 3:21:32.320 caught me then and he was just always really really 3:21:32.480 --> 3:21:36.360 kind to me, and the few interactions I had with him, 3:21:36.400 --> 3:21:39.400 he was just a you know, a sweet guy. Uh 3:21:39.440 --> 3:21:41.120 and you got to feel, well, you watch this, you 3:21:41.240 --> 3:21:44.640 feel what a what a shattered kind of torn soul? 3:21:44.959 --> 3:21:49.520 You know. He boy the original version of Tooty Fruity. 3:21:49.560 --> 3:21:54.480 I'd never heard the original lyrics till that documentary Tooty Fruity, 3:21:54.600 --> 3:21:58.959 Good Booty. It was like wow, and uh, but anyway, 3:21:59.200 --> 3:22:01.720 so he pre sees he's Elvis, and of course the 3:22:01.800 --> 3:22:06.120 Pat Boone stuff of you know, is something it's like, 3:22:06.640 --> 3:22:14.000 you know, like wow, it's sacrilegious. But Elvis and I 3:22:14.080 --> 3:22:16.560 understood when DJ talked about he said, yeah, but you 3:22:16.640 --> 3:22:19.000 got to understand, man, when he and he actually was 3:22:19.160 --> 3:22:22.960 ahead of Richard regionally. You know, he was out in 3:22:23.120 --> 3:22:26.320 fifty three, fifty four or five, you know, those three years, 3:22:26.400 --> 3:22:29.840 and Richard doesn't hit till that day in New Orleans 3:22:30.040 --> 3:22:35.080 with the Old Session. Durm Earl Palmer talked about it. 3:22:35.160 --> 3:22:38.280 He's like, man, we all went to lunch Richard said, 3:22:38.280 --> 3:22:40.280 And they didn't know I played piano. They had him 3:22:40.320 --> 3:22:43.080 standard doing arms, like thinking he'll just be this guy 3:22:43.200 --> 3:22:46.240 standards sing sing blues, R and B. He said, I 3:22:46.320 --> 3:22:48.880 didn't want to do that. They didn't understand, he said. 3:22:48.959 --> 3:22:51.080 At lunch they all went over to this little dive 3:22:51.240 --> 3:22:53.880 that nearby and had a piano in her, he said, 3:22:53.920 --> 3:22:55.800 and Richard got up and started playing her, like what 3:22:56.080 --> 3:23:01.000 the and he started tooty fruity and said, we've never 3:23:01.080 --> 3:23:04.160 seen anything like that or heard anything that was like 3:23:04.760 --> 3:23:08.600 to be pretty good booty. And so they went back 3:23:08.640 --> 3:23:10.080 and the guy that was the A and R guy 3:23:10.120 --> 3:23:12.039 can't remember his name now this is in the documentary, 3:23:12.080 --> 3:23:15.240 but he goes back over and says to the owner 3:23:15.360 --> 3:23:20.800 of whoever's studio they had him in there, not carusive, 3:23:20.800 --> 3:23:28.680 but uh anyway that because that label, which is LA based, 3:23:28.760 --> 3:23:32.080 I think that that he was on right that decided 3:23:32.120 --> 3:23:34.400 to go with it. When he went in and said 3:23:34.440 --> 3:23:36.920 that the an R cat he said, hey, he just 3:23:37.000 --> 3:23:38.840 did something over there. We got to now we got 3:23:38.959 --> 3:23:40.800 to clean the lyrics up. And there was a staff 3:23:40.920 --> 3:23:43.960 woman who and she's interviewed and now she said it 3:23:44.160 --> 3:23:50.040 was nasty, nasty, nasty, Richard got him and he said, oh, 3:23:50.120 --> 3:23:54.760 that wasn't that was just her mind. You know, you're 3:23:54.840 --> 3:23:58.800 literally saying it, Richard. But so you between the two, 3:23:59.720 --> 3:24:03.320 rich has that hit. But again it was ostracized to 3:24:04.920 --> 3:24:08.199 race stations, right, black radio, and it had to find 3:24:08.240 --> 3:24:14.320 the white audience and Elvis you know, doing that, you know, 3:24:14.440 --> 3:24:17.000 it was just and so I'm a kid that the 3:24:17.160 --> 3:24:20.600 meant the Sun stuff was with me from the time 3:24:20.720 --> 3:24:24.000 I was a baby. I was an Elvis free but 3:24:24.120 --> 3:24:27.039 mystery trained, you know. And and then by the time 3:24:27.080 --> 3:24:29.359 I got in high school, that album they re released, 3:24:29.760 --> 3:24:32.480 you know, the Sun album, the Sun Records as a collection, 3:24:33.160 --> 3:24:35.240 and I had them and I had them and I 3:24:35.320 --> 3:24:37.640 knew that's when I knew. I said, but this is 3:24:37.879 --> 3:24:40.400 and I was listening simultaneously at the same time, same 3:24:40.480 --> 3:24:44.480 window credence, you know. One of the first albums, well, 3:24:44.520 --> 3:24:47.960 the first record ever bought by myself was that this 3:24:48.879 --> 3:24:53.040 this shopping center and it was an old you know, 3:24:53.080 --> 3:24:56.000 apothecary drug store was record racks, you know, and stuff. 3:24:56.280 --> 3:24:56.879 Yeah, my mom. 3:24:57.000 --> 3:24:59.800 I had money in my own from whatever allowance I 3:24:59.840 --> 3:25:03.480 got from working George stuff around the house, and and 3:25:03.600 --> 3:25:06.200 I had you know, a few dollars and I bought 3:25:06.400 --> 3:25:10.160 Roy orbitson. They did a re release of pretty Woman, 3:25:10.600 --> 3:25:14.400 but the song that I found on the backside it 3:25:14.600 --> 3:25:18.199 was a double single because it was they were both singles, 3:25:18.720 --> 3:25:22.480 but it was re released uh as a spotlight series. 3:25:22.600 --> 3:25:26.400 It was Candy Man and Candy Man was cut monument 3:25:27.120 --> 3:25:31.160 in Nashville, you know, post the Memphis stuff with the 3:25:31.320 --> 3:25:37.320 first ever uh, playing on record of harmonica by Charlie 3:25:37.400 --> 3:25:40.080 McCoy who goes on to become a great harmonica session player. 3:25:40.480 --> 3:25:50.520 But it opens wet bone, Bone Bone. I'm That song 3:25:50.720 --> 3:25:55.720 fascinated me to this day. Come on Baby, And that 3:25:56.120 --> 3:25:58.560 was the extension of the Elvis thing. You because the 3:25:58.600 --> 3:26:00.880 other stuff with Roy I loved Woman, I love all, 3:26:01.320 --> 3:26:04.040 but it's a little more operatic. And Candy Man was 3:26:04.120 --> 3:26:06.720 swinging man. It was in that groove at shovel and 3:26:07.160 --> 3:26:11.240 and Elvis, especially the sun stuff, and I found it. 3:26:12.000 --> 3:26:15.240 That was the first single I bought. Album album was 3:26:15.320 --> 3:26:19.680 probably Cosmos Factory because I was on my bikes. I 3:26:19.800 --> 3:26:23.400 rode from this this uh, you know box store that 3:26:24.280 --> 3:26:26.840 had started, you know, sprung up by the early seventies. 3:26:26.840 --> 3:26:29.720 There were these things and it had racks of music 3:26:29.800 --> 3:26:31.440 and I was looking through it, and I found the 3:26:31.480 --> 3:26:34.400 Cosmos Factory because I wanted tracks off of that. And 3:26:34.440 --> 3:26:37.320 then I bought Green River. I bought the preceding things 3:26:37.360 --> 3:26:38.039 that I heard single. 3:26:38.200 --> 3:26:40.240 Green River was the first one I bought. Yeah, I 3:26:40.360 --> 3:26:42.679 was Born on the bay unbelievable. 3:26:42.760 --> 3:26:46.879 Oh how how great? Huh? I mean born on the Bayou, right, 3:26:47.640 --> 3:26:50.280 because I mean all of it. But anyway, so I'm 3:26:50.360 --> 3:26:53.000 listening to that and this re release, this stuff they 3:26:53.000 --> 3:26:56.400 were rediscovering, you know, of the sun stuff of Elvis, 3:26:56.840 --> 3:26:59.200 you know, because the Brits all knew that. And yes, 3:26:59.360 --> 3:27:01.320 I was listening to the Beatles because of my mom 3:27:02.080 --> 3:27:05.360 with that AM radio, and I was hearing those hits 3:27:05.640 --> 3:27:08.680 and I really got And when you see the get 3:27:08.800 --> 3:27:10.320 back down here and you see the two of them 3:27:10.360 --> 3:27:13.120 looking up each other at one point point later in 3:27:13.200 --> 3:27:16.160 the in the movie, you know, after George leaves and 3:27:16.200 --> 3:27:20.560 then comes back and they're staring and John and George 3:27:20.760 --> 3:27:25.520 just like just by Osmosa begins singing bye Bye Love 3:27:26.040 --> 3:27:30.760 identically to the Everlas. Right, you realize they loved it. 3:27:31.440 --> 3:27:36.360 They loved that music, they loved that stuff, and uh 3:27:38.480 --> 3:27:41.160 so I could hear that in there. I could find 3:27:41.240 --> 3:27:44.200 it in the Beatles. I understood it, you know, Yeah, 3:27:44.400 --> 3:27:48.640 I was listening to the Beatles, and I've done homages 3:27:48.720 --> 3:27:51.000 to them, you know, you and I we did. You know, 3:27:52.400 --> 3:27:54.039 I've just seen a face. Right. 3:27:54.120 --> 3:27:57.160 But when when you come to LA this is not 3:27:57.360 --> 3:28:00.760 the music that's being signed and on the road. 3:28:01.360 --> 3:28:04.560 But but I get here in seventy seven and seventy eight, 3:28:04.600 --> 3:28:07.200 I'm up on the strip one night. One day in 3:28:07.240 --> 3:28:10.360 the afternoon, I'm roaming around and looking at tower because 3:28:10.360 --> 3:28:12.480 I'm living in Long Beach and I hadn't moved yet 3:28:12.600 --> 3:28:15.080 up here. I was driving. Okay, Joe, why Long Beach 3:28:15.160 --> 3:28:17.800 because that's the cheapest beach on the buddy of mine. 3:28:17.840 --> 3:28:21.040 And I came out. I said, dude, we can't live 3:28:21.280 --> 3:28:25.880 down in landlocked Orange count We've come this far, that's 3:28:26.720 --> 3:28:30.800 come this fighting. No, you either got to be in Hollywood. 3:28:30.879 --> 3:28:34.240 We should be right in Hollywood or early Ocean, all right. 3:28:34.680 --> 3:28:37.440 So we started in Santama. He goes, Okay, okay, we 3:28:37.600 --> 3:28:39.600 started in Santa Monica because we were staying with his 3:28:39.760 --> 3:28:42.800 relatives in Tustin, right, and so we drove up, spent 3:28:42.840 --> 3:28:45.960 a whole day. Dress we start in Santa Monica and 3:28:46.120 --> 3:28:49.600 we can't afford any of that, right, Santa Monica, Venice. 3:28:49.920 --> 3:28:55.480 We just go down down Route one. We're down Pacific 3:28:55.560 --> 3:28:57.960 Goes Highway, going all the way into the Then we 3:28:58.040 --> 3:29:00.720 get to Manhattan Beach and we can't or that and 3:29:00.840 --> 3:29:02.160 we get over it and we come up. I said, 3:29:02.200 --> 3:29:04.200 what what this thing? I'm looking at, Madie, there's somebody, 3:29:04.240 --> 3:29:06.480 come on, get back on the freeway. And we crossed, 3:29:06.800 --> 3:29:10.840 you know, over the San Pedro and roll into Long 3:29:10.920 --> 3:29:12.720 Beach and we go down there and the old pike 3:29:12.959 --> 3:29:16.120 was there, the Remuvement Park. It was still a run 3:29:16.240 --> 3:29:21.280 down ocean town, you know, Harbortown, Long Beach, and the 3:29:21.400 --> 3:29:25.280 apartments were literally on ninth Place, right dead end of 3:29:25.320 --> 3:29:29.240 the beach for nothing. And we got this little single 3:29:29.440 --> 3:29:31.640 you know, with a bat, you know, a little tiny kitchen. 3:29:32.240 --> 3:29:35.000 And he only stayed about three months. He left by 3:29:35.640 --> 3:29:38.520 the last week of June, and I was there, Okay, Well, 3:29:38.600 --> 3:29:39.600 why did he leave? 3:29:39.720 --> 3:29:40.680 How much of it? 3:29:41.160 --> 3:29:45.360 He just didn't? He never, I think I looking back. 3:29:46.280 --> 3:29:49.080 He wanted to visit his aunt and uncle and was 3:29:49.160 --> 3:29:52.440 held bent on delivering me to La. He knew I 3:29:52.480 --> 3:29:53.960 had already been to Nashville a couple of times, and 3:29:54.520 --> 3:29:58.120 in seventy six, seventy two. It was if you did. 3:29:58.480 --> 3:30:01.120 I didn't know. I've said this to Steve Earl. I said, 3:30:01.920 --> 3:30:05.080 I didn't realize that those houses were the business, the 3:30:05.200 --> 3:30:09.600 publishing houses, right, music Row, it's quiet. There was no 3:30:09.760 --> 3:30:11.600 there was Lower there was Lower Broad, but it was 3:30:11.720 --> 3:30:14.280 just a few drunk bars. And there's Printer's Alley which 3:30:14.400 --> 3:30:16.440 Boots Randolph had a club and it was you know, 3:30:16.520 --> 3:30:19.400 it's a nightclub thing, but there was no live music, 3:30:19.920 --> 3:30:22.840 not like La or New York or you know, and 3:30:22.959 --> 3:30:26.080 it was it was the quiet. They got up nine am, 3:30:26.160 --> 3:30:29.000 they had coffee and we're writing solid right, and they're 3:30:29.040 --> 3:30:31.440 cutting them with the I didn't know that that that's 3:30:31.520 --> 3:30:33.160 how you did it there. And I went there a 3:30:33.200 --> 3:30:36.240 couple of times. I auditioned for the Grandel Opry Park, 3:30:36.360 --> 3:30:40.160 the Opry Land, and I got a slot in January 3:30:40.200 --> 3:30:42.880 as as an alternate. And they said, well, you come 3:30:42.959 --> 3:30:45.280 back to summer and if somebody gets sick or they 3:30:45.640 --> 3:30:49.440 will pull you in. And he said to me, do 3:30:49.480 --> 3:30:52.120 you really want to do that? I said no, I said, 3:30:52.520 --> 3:30:55.600 I guess. He said, man, you're coming with me, and 3:30:55.720 --> 3:30:58.400 he said and he paid for the gas, and I 3:30:58.440 --> 3:31:01.480 didn't have, you know, couple hundred bucks. We packed everything 3:31:01.800 --> 3:31:04.680 on which was nothing. My guitar and I had a 3:31:04.760 --> 3:31:10.240 k at that point, big open sound, okay, And he 3:31:10.440 --> 3:31:13.440 deposited me on the West coast, and then by his 3:31:13.640 --> 3:31:15.160 plan was all he wasn't staying. 3:31:16.120 --> 3:31:18.480 Well, how did you feel when he abandoned you? 3:31:19.560 --> 3:31:22.680 Not not crushed, because I kind of preferred to be alone, 3:31:23.280 --> 3:31:25.160 you know, scale I was like, you know, I wanted 3:31:25.200 --> 3:31:27.400 my own room. I never had a room, and I 3:31:27.480 --> 3:31:30.240 stayed in the smallest little apartments on the face of 3:31:30.280 --> 3:31:33.760 the earth, just a lit alone. I never shared the 3:31:33.879 --> 3:31:38.920 space because it would interrupt my I knew what it was. 3:31:39.160 --> 3:31:42.000 It would interrupt my thoughts and what I needed to do, 3:31:42.200 --> 3:31:45.160 and you know, write and to try and create songs. 3:31:45.240 --> 3:31:47.240 I knew then you had to write, you know, you 3:31:47.280 --> 3:31:51.800 had to create your material. And so no, what was 3:31:51.879 --> 3:31:53.840 going on out here then? I mean, you had you 3:31:53.959 --> 3:31:56.959 had the burgeoning La punk thing, but I don't even 3:31:56.959 --> 3:31:58.880 think Los Angeles had come out yet with the X 3:31:58.959 --> 3:32:01.640 hadn't happened. But you still had Fleetwood, Matt, you had 3:32:01.680 --> 3:32:04.240 all the that stuff. You know. The other end of 3:32:04.280 --> 3:32:07.520 the spectrum of country rock had become the new pop, 3:32:07.720 --> 3:32:10.560 right the Eagles had now become the pop rock act. 3:32:11.040 --> 3:32:14.520 Fleetwood Mac was everything, and you know, and and then 3:32:14.600 --> 3:32:17.120 you started hearing in the summer seventy seven. I remember, 3:32:17.200 --> 3:32:20.600 I think watching the Detectives Elvis in the attract. The 3:32:20.680 --> 3:32:24.760 English new waves started coming, right, So seventy eight, I'm 3:32:24.840 --> 3:32:28.760 up at Tower Records and one afternoon and stumbling around. 3:32:28.760 --> 3:32:31.040 We're looking through it and there's free tickets like you 3:32:31.200 --> 3:32:33.840 highlight tickets to the Whiskey. You go. There's a show 3:32:33.959 --> 3:32:39.440 that night and it's Robert Gordon with Link Ray and Yeah. 3:32:40.040 --> 3:32:43.080 And Robert Gordon at the time had had on FM. 3:32:43.160 --> 3:32:44.640 I would hear on the wirl if it was k 3:32:44.800 --> 3:32:48.800 R o Q or whatever. But he had a revival 3:32:48.959 --> 3:32:51.800 rockabillity thing of UH. I forget who the band was 3:32:51.840 --> 3:32:58.520 it did Lex Lex Lexlex remember that? And Robert Gordon 3:32:58.600 --> 3:33:01.680 was out of d c any he had well the 3:33:01.800 --> 3:33:07.000 first the opening act that night was UH was Billy 3:33:07.120 --> 3:33:12.120 Zoom pre X. Billy Zoom, the guitar player for X 3:33:12.440 --> 3:33:16.240 had a rockabilly band and he and he had that 3:33:16.360 --> 3:33:18.760 duo jets and he was out there slamming it and 3:33:18.840 --> 3:33:20.120 he was out and it was one of the last 3:33:20.200 --> 3:33:22.920 gigs he ever did, because he told Pete Anderson at 3:33:22.920 --> 3:33:24.480 the time told me. Larry said, yeah, he told me. 3:33:24.560 --> 3:33:26.640 He said, I you are gonna believe this. He said, 3:33:26.640 --> 3:33:29.119 I've been trying to do what I do great for years. 3:33:30.160 --> 3:33:32.680 I've just put this band together just doing We're doing 3:33:32.800 --> 3:33:37.440 trash punkins and we're signed. We're doing it. It was 3:33:37.760 --> 3:33:39.640 x he said. They got out and then did John 3:33:39.680 --> 3:33:41.680 Doe and Exen. They did Los Angeles and it was 3:33:41.760 --> 3:33:45.000 the cultural explosion of that. But I go in there 3:33:45.040 --> 3:33:47.480 and see Robert Gordon with link Ray. That was one 3:33:47.520 --> 3:33:50.040 of the loudest things I've ever heard to this day, 3:33:50.760 --> 3:33:54.000 nothing louder than link Ray because he would open do 3:33:54.080 --> 3:33:58.160 a couple did rumble of course, you know, brown, brown brown. 3:33:58.879 --> 3:34:01.680 I mean, it was a sight to see. And the 3:34:01.840 --> 3:34:06.840 Blasters were somehow connected because Ronnie Weisner or whatever, this 3:34:07.000 --> 3:34:10.320 guy this he was either Czechoslovaki or Hungarian. He was 3:34:10.320 --> 3:34:12.200 a little guy, was out of his mind. He saw 3:34:12.280 --> 3:34:14.360 me leaning on a pole because I you know, you're 3:34:15.000 --> 3:34:18.600 you just want to drink in every single second of 3:34:18.760 --> 3:34:21.400 any of it. So I stayed that the show's over 3:34:22.080 --> 3:34:24.240 and they've all but turned the ugly lights on and 3:34:24.280 --> 3:34:26.160 their tearings. You know, they don't run you out of 3:34:26.200 --> 3:34:27.760 the whiskeys. You just stand there if you want to 3:34:27.760 --> 3:34:31.160 buy a drink. And I'm leaning against the pole, just watching, 3:34:31.720 --> 3:34:33.879 just to watch it, you know, watch them tear down 3:34:33.920 --> 3:34:37.359 the gear, watch them carry it to the curb, watching everybody. 3:34:37.360 --> 3:34:39.800 And I'm alone, and I'm and this guy comes to 3:34:39.920 --> 3:34:44.560 running Weisner. Wisner. Yeah. Anyway, He goes, what you do? 3:34:45.280 --> 3:34:50.160 What are you doing? The broken English Eastern European accident? 3:34:51.040 --> 3:34:53.280 Well do you know I think? I said, well I do, 3:34:53.520 --> 3:34:55.320 I said. He said, you're a musician, because he's just 3:34:55.440 --> 3:34:58.680 looking at me, and I'm leaning on you know, at 3:34:58.720 --> 3:35:01.039 that point, I'm more a David Essex. Looked at anything. 3:35:01.080 --> 3:35:03.640 I've got boots on, but I got you know, bells, 3:35:03.680 --> 3:35:06.240 it's bell bottom blues. Right at that point in La 3:35:07.040 --> 3:35:09.720 leaning against the wall, and he goes, look at of music. 3:35:09.760 --> 3:35:12.080 I said, well, you know, kind of country rock. For 3:35:12.240 --> 3:35:14.120 lack of a better discrete. You know, I'm letting them 3:35:14.200 --> 3:35:17.360 know that we're He goes, ah full you you know 3:35:17.400 --> 3:35:22.320 what you need to rockabilly? Rockabilly, rockabilly, that's what's bigger. Rockabilly. 3:35:22.600 --> 3:35:25.400 I'm like, dude, I know rockabilly from the inside out 3:35:25.440 --> 3:35:29.040 of me. I was born to rockabilly, and that was 3:35:29.160 --> 3:35:32.400 my first experience when you said, what was going on here? 3:35:33.080 --> 3:35:36.320 Was that moment? Think about seventy eight. You're already here. 3:35:36.360 --> 3:35:40.400 You're in the business. Right, it's the chains shift. Right. 3:35:41.320 --> 3:35:47.359 Petty comes out looking like a seventies rocker but playing 3:35:48.040 --> 3:35:50.640 like new wave. Right, you know, you know what I mean. 3:35:51.000 --> 3:35:53.720 That's the economy of Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. 3:35:54.560 --> 3:35:58.359 I saw them all at the whiskey, Tom Petty, Elvis Costello. 3:35:58.240 --> 3:36:01.520 In even the band, Joe Jackson, Yeah right, you know, 3:36:02.600 --> 3:36:05.959 and even the band was Joe Jackson watching the detectives. 3:36:06.760 --> 3:36:07.520 No, that was Elvis. 3:36:07.680 --> 3:36:11.480 That's Elvis. But what Joe Jackson was, uh usually really 3:36:11.560 --> 3:36:12.400 going out with him. 3:36:12.600 --> 3:36:16.880 One more time goes on. But they saw the papers. 3:36:17.280 --> 3:36:20.280 Anyway, and Joe Jackson was the sharp you know the 3:36:20.360 --> 3:36:24.120 two tone shoes, you know, man, so so sharp? Yeah, 3:36:24.360 --> 3:36:26.840 really sure sharp? You know the Teddy Boys shoes right 3:36:26.840 --> 3:36:31.520 at the needle point. But but uh, that's the moment, 3:36:31.840 --> 3:36:39.240 and I'm thinking, man, you know, when the tide comes 3:36:39.280 --> 3:36:43.360 in and goes out, you know, when you can beach combe, 3:36:43.480 --> 3:36:47.320 you can go up and down and find the leftover 3:36:47.360 --> 3:36:50.200 if you see what's going to happen. And I just 3:36:50.680 --> 3:36:53.760 had a sense that there was going to be this moment, 3:36:53.840 --> 3:36:57.360 and because I had known about the whole buck Merle, 3:36:57.680 --> 3:37:00.680 the whole traditional country that was out here, Appitol Tower, 3:37:00.800 --> 3:37:05.640 the Capitol Records sound, the Bakersfield sound, and it led 3:37:05.680 --> 3:37:09.120 to and I knew it begat Chris Hillman, the Birds Sweetheart, 3:37:09.200 --> 3:37:12.920 at which begat Burritos, which gives Lynda Ronstat the footing. 3:37:12.959 --> 3:37:15.160 You know, they all that m com mingling. And then 3:37:15.240 --> 3:37:18.600 by Eagles and Emmy Lou and those records with Brian 3:37:18.720 --> 3:37:22.400 hern were a beacon that drew me. I thought, that's 3:37:23.240 --> 3:37:26.080 what I am, that's me, you know, with the purtiness 3:37:26.120 --> 3:37:29.160 of that. The John Prime thing, I didn't finish. They 3:37:29.280 --> 3:37:32.760 cut that album on him in Memphis. That first album 3:37:33.800 --> 3:37:36.720 was again one of the similar moments in the revelatory 3:37:36.800 --> 3:37:39.800 moments of my life in terms of in terms of 3:37:44.400 --> 3:37:47.680 my own family's experiences. I remember, I said, the epiphanius 3:37:47.760 --> 3:37:50.040 moment that I fell, I had, you know, at fifteen 3:37:50.120 --> 3:37:52.959 or six, riding in the back of that car down 3:37:53.080 --> 3:37:56.280 Route twenty three of my mom and my aunt and 3:37:56.400 --> 3:38:00.880 I thought John Prime and the song paradise about his 3:38:00.959 --> 3:38:04.879 own family moving from western Kentucky up into Illinois and Chicago, 3:38:05.600 --> 3:38:09.160 and he articulately and I thought, that's what it is. 3:38:09.360 --> 3:38:11.680 And it's almost like having to be moved so far 3:38:11.760 --> 3:38:15.280 away from it, so far removed that I wrote reading 3:38:15.360 --> 3:38:21.000 writing Route twenty three about those tailight baby years, you know, 3:38:21.240 --> 3:38:23.640 when we would leave on a Friday evening after they 3:38:23.680 --> 3:38:28.520 got off work. You have you ever seen folks pull 3:38:28.600 --> 3:38:31.040 up in a hollow after work on Friday night, you know, 3:38:31.680 --> 3:38:37.720 Prestonsburg can all that stuff. It was I realized it's pertinent. 3:38:38.120 --> 3:38:42.320 It's pertinent because it's me. It's pertinent to my you know, 3:38:43.440 --> 3:38:47.200 my expression musically in my life. But John Primes who 3:38:47.280 --> 3:38:51.000 inspired me to self examine and think. And it's like, 3:38:51.120 --> 3:38:55.840 what was it that I read that Dickens wrote all 3:38:55.879 --> 3:38:59.160 the great stories about London and the winter right Christmas 3:38:59.200 --> 3:39:03.040 Carol living on the Tuscany coast in Italy when he 3:39:03.080 --> 3:39:06.480 had moved far removed, you know, on the Mediterranean coast 3:39:06.560 --> 3:39:12.360 in Italy, you know, living expatriate, as you know, as 3:39:12.360 --> 3:39:14.960 a lender out of it. And he wrote from the 3:39:15.080 --> 3:39:17.600 vantage point because you're able to see, I think you 3:39:17.760 --> 3:39:22.080 pull focus when you write about the elements of your 3:39:22.120 --> 3:39:26.280 own life. When I read you from your distance, right, 3:39:26.800 --> 3:39:29.960 you're able to see from the distance with a greater 3:39:30.120 --> 3:39:34.000 degree of clarity what it was you came from Connecticut, 3:39:34.120 --> 3:39:36.280 the whole scene when you talk about your dad in 3:39:36.320 --> 3:39:38.560 the liquor store, and you know all of it, the 3:39:38.680 --> 3:39:41.560 ice cream, the ice cream, you know. I mean, it's 3:39:41.760 --> 3:39:44.480 visceral when you write, it's visceral, and that's what people 3:39:44.640 --> 3:39:47.680 love to read. That's why they read, you know. I 3:39:47.760 --> 3:39:51.879 mean you haven't have you excuse me if I'm insulting 3:39:51.920 --> 3:39:54.680 you by not knowing that you You haven't published in 3:39:54.840 --> 3:39:58.440 book form, have you? No? I mean I have got to, Bob. 3:39:58.959 --> 3:40:02.480 Well, I mean just taking a detour here. If you 3:40:02.720 --> 3:40:07.360 talk to the major people, they only want fiction. Because 3:40:07.400 --> 3:40:10.439 I said I would do this, then I had publishers 3:40:10.440 --> 3:40:14.440 who would do it. But the advances were like ten 3:40:14.520 --> 3:40:15.360 to twenty grand. 3:40:15.800 --> 3:40:18.280 You can't afford to do it, you can't take the time. 3:40:18.720 --> 3:40:23.240 No, no, but yeah no, When I hit send, I 3:40:23.440 --> 3:40:25.840 reach more people than all these people who read their 3:40:25.879 --> 3:40:27.039 back their books. 3:40:27.600 --> 3:40:29.920 But I think a collection of all of it, Bob, 3:40:30.080 --> 3:40:31.600 has to happen, and somebody's going. 3:40:31.560 --> 3:40:31.720 To do it. 3:40:32.000 --> 3:40:35.880 I was thinking, right. But the other thing about it 3:40:36.120 --> 3:40:40.480 is nothing sells itself these days, not only making it 3:40:40.640 --> 3:40:42.680 is not the hard part. Then you got to go 3:40:42.760 --> 3:40:44.200 out and flog it. 3:40:44.600 --> 3:40:45.120 Yeah, And. 3:40:46.840 --> 3:40:49.560 That's both time and not quite my personality. 3:40:49.600 --> 3:40:52.000 But I hear you not your nature. No, But I'm 3:40:52.080 --> 3:40:54.680 telling you there are enough people that know that would 3:40:55.120 --> 3:40:58.320 love to have it all in one space and in 3:40:58.400 --> 3:41:02.960 a hardbacked version. I think people would love reading, and 3:41:03.160 --> 3:41:06.160 especially I mean, you've got va you could do more 3:41:06.200 --> 3:41:08.320 than one book. It's like you could just do just 3:41:08.440 --> 3:41:10.640 the things you've written about your family would be you know, 3:41:11.040 --> 3:41:13.920 it would be its own, you know, tome of four 3:41:14.000 --> 3:41:17.760 hundred pages. You know you would have. But so the 3:41:18.040 --> 3:41:21.160 visceral nature. What the John Pride album, that first one 3:41:21.160 --> 3:41:24.360 where he's on the Bailahet which has Sam Stone uh 3:41:24.959 --> 3:41:28.720 has has uh uh? Your flag decal won't get you 3:41:28.840 --> 3:41:31.840 to have anymore? I mean all that but Paradise Spanish 3:41:31.879 --> 3:41:34.280 pipe Dream. I used to play that in nightclubs out 3:41:34.320 --> 3:41:37.039 in the Corral in the lake View Terra Foothill in Osborne. 3:41:37.280 --> 3:41:40.160 There was a cowboy bar that was hardcore. They would 3:41:40.240 --> 3:41:42.800 ride down from up there in Tonga, and that ain't 3:41:43.040 --> 3:41:48.800 to Panga. People that someone to Honga ain't to Panga. 3:41:48.879 --> 3:41:51.680 Don't confuse it too, because the hippies are in Topanga, 3:41:52.600 --> 3:41:56.039 the bikers that sell meth or in Tonga. It's like exactly. 3:41:56.520 --> 3:41:58.920 But I played for a year straight the off nights 3:41:59.000 --> 3:42:03.120 the year Johnt John Lennon was killed on the night 3:42:03.200 --> 3:42:04.800 that I drove into work and got in there and 3:42:04.920 --> 3:42:08.760 we heard and Delaney Bramlet lived down the road and 3:42:09.040 --> 3:42:11.120 came in. He was torn up and got up and 3:42:11.200 --> 3:42:14.280 played with us, just to just to give Trivty a 3:42:14.320 --> 3:42:19.720 couple a couple of John's songs. And so my experience 3:42:19.920 --> 3:42:22.520 this is like nineteen what was eighty because he died 3:42:22.560 --> 3:42:24.879 in December of eighty, But I had been in there 3:42:27.040 --> 3:42:31.080 playing Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Because I wasn't good enough 3:42:31.120 --> 3:42:33.480 to play the weekends. They were fearful I wasn't because 3:42:33.480 --> 3:42:36.280 I wasn't. I wasn't doing I just wouldn't, you know. 3:42:37.000 --> 3:42:40.720 I was doing Bill and Row and doing some merle 3:42:40.840 --> 3:42:43.240 I was doing. You know, it was it was hardcore, 3:42:43.760 --> 3:42:46.360 you know, hillbilly stuff. Because to that point, once I 3:42:46.440 --> 3:42:52.480 got here and found just my headspace around it, I realized, 3:42:52.600 --> 3:42:56.080 but the vantage point I had, dude. That's what the 3:42:56.240 --> 3:43:01.680 car ride was about who I and my who I 3:43:02.120 --> 3:43:05.640 was by the birthright of my family, you know, and 3:43:05.760 --> 3:43:08.720 where I was born, and I need to take this 3:43:09.480 --> 3:43:12.600 and I need to, you know, pay tribute to that 3:43:12.920 --> 3:43:15.640 and those people that gave me a chance, you know, 3:43:16.200 --> 3:43:19.040 to get away from mining coal as a way to 3:43:19.080 --> 3:43:19.600 make a living. 3:43:19.720 --> 3:43:22.840 Okay, you're out, you know, the hungun you're playing the 3:43:22.920 --> 3:43:27.560 week nights. Okay, the nature of being in your twenties 3:43:27.640 --> 3:43:31.080 and the nature of someone who actually made it. On 3:43:31.240 --> 3:43:34.120 some level, you're happy. On some level, you're incredibly frustrated. 3:43:34.680 --> 3:43:36.800 I'm out of the far end of the valley singing 3:43:36.840 --> 3:43:41.400 Bill Monroe and the billboards are on sunset and everybody's touring. 3:43:41.600 --> 3:43:43.000 How am I going to get from A to B? 3:43:43.680 --> 3:43:48.520 Well, that happens because as fate what have Like I said, 3:43:48.720 --> 3:43:52.520 you sensed the tide, you know, the changing of the tide, right, 3:43:53.360 --> 3:43:58.520 you know, seventy eight, seventy nine, so eighty that entire year. 3:43:58.560 --> 3:44:01.039 I'm out there, you know, and it's still a life 3:44:01.160 --> 3:44:05.240 altering experience. I mean, I'm learning. You're from the bandstand. 3:44:05.280 --> 3:44:09.600 You see life go by every number, you see them 3:44:09.680 --> 3:44:12.480 dance pass on that dance floor and you're watching from 3:44:12.520 --> 3:44:15.880 the fist fights to the the to the heartache to 3:44:16.000 --> 3:44:19.120 the screaming matches. You you're in there long, five sets 3:44:19.160 --> 3:44:23.400 a night. You get an education. And I'm writing, I'm 3:44:23.440 --> 3:44:26.880 writing songs. I'm driving air freight during the day, Airborne 3:44:27.320 --> 3:44:30.000 getting off work, rolling out there and in between and 3:44:30.000 --> 3:44:33.280 on the weekend, I'm writing, it won't hurt about those 3:44:33.360 --> 3:44:36.880 people when I fall down from this barstool. There was 3:44:37.240 --> 3:44:40.160 I mean, it was a woman. I won't give your name, 3:44:40.200 --> 3:44:42.600 and it's just a different but she was. 3:44:42.640 --> 3:44:45.440 I think it's hilarious. You drove Airborne. I used to 3:44:45.520 --> 3:44:46.640 use Airborne all the time. 3:44:46.680 --> 3:44:50.240 Instead, Airborne was a competitive fed X. Right, there were 3:44:50.280 --> 3:44:54.240 three Emory right was the purple, the band, and Airborne 3:44:54.360 --> 3:44:56.720 was the red and black, you know, and then FedEx 3:44:56.800 --> 3:44:57.240 was the purple. 3:44:57.280 --> 3:44:59.920 There were I just have that like silver, red and black. 3:45:00.120 --> 3:45:01.960 Yeah, it would over. Red and black was a who 3:45:02.040 --> 3:45:04.640 had a red shirt and a crack of dam. And 3:45:04.760 --> 3:45:09.280 so I'm driving Airborne air freight and and look at 3:45:09.320 --> 3:45:11.160 this bar. There was a woman that wo come in 3:45:11.320 --> 3:45:14.720 came in there almost every night and I won't give 3:45:14.720 --> 3:45:18.840 her name, and they called her Lady something, and it 3:45:19.000 --> 3:45:22.880 wasn't ladylike behavior. She was the screaming us. She'd be 3:45:22.920 --> 3:45:24.280 down at the end of the bar, and about the 3:45:24.400 --> 3:45:28.040 third set she would go off and start because somebody 3:45:28.080 --> 3:45:30.640 would be looking at her, she thought from down the others. 3:45:30.800 --> 3:45:34.040 It was an L shaped bar, and this place probably 3:45:34.120 --> 3:45:36.240 held two hundred people. I mean it was a good 3:45:36.280 --> 3:45:38.960 sized bar, I mean know. And it had an L 3:45:39.120 --> 3:45:44.480 shaped building that in the front. This is how rough, 3:45:44.560 --> 3:45:49.360 this was how hardcore. Their banner across the crowd and 3:45:49.400 --> 3:45:53.360 the outside of it said cock open for cocktail six am. 3:45:55.000 --> 3:45:58.440 Because they had they had a breakfast counter. Okay, they 3:45:58.480 --> 3:46:01.840 were close from two to set and they served breaktae. 3:46:02.840 --> 3:46:05.680 I was asleep on the stage one day. And because 3:46:05.920 --> 3:46:08.520 my drummer guy named stup Perry, who lived into Hungo, 3:46:08.600 --> 3:46:11.120 That's how I got to know to Hunga well. He 3:46:11.200 --> 3:46:13.560 had pit bulls in it. I remember, never forget. Stu 3:46:13.760 --> 3:46:15.520 was so upset one night when I'd give him a 3:46:15.560 --> 3:46:17.920 lift from there to get into He was a great drummer. 3:46:18.240 --> 3:46:20.879 He'd been on the Dick Clark tours. And remember there 3:46:20.959 --> 3:46:23.000 was a guy around town named Jimmy Rabbit. He was 3:46:23.000 --> 3:46:25.760 a radio person. Now I had a Jimmy Rabbit, right, 3:46:25.879 --> 3:46:29.640 not not related to Eddie Rabbit. And he was a 3:46:30.200 --> 3:46:34.160 you know, a bar band guy, but had local fame 3:46:34.240 --> 3:46:36.200 because of radio. You know, he was a radio now 3:46:36.360 --> 3:46:39.360 the DJ, I guess. And so Stu played with him, 3:46:39.440 --> 3:46:41.280 but he played with everybody. I mean he knew you know, 3:46:41.920 --> 3:46:44.360 Delayning Bramlet, and he had played over the years because stupid. 3:46:44.840 --> 3:46:47.200 So Stu was playing drums for me because this guy 3:46:47.280 --> 3:46:49.760 from Oklahoma who had helped me get my first demos 3:46:49.800 --> 3:46:54.200 done through a guy at Western Recorder, United Western at 3:46:54.240 --> 3:46:55.959 that time, those were where I made my first demo. 3:46:56.680 --> 3:46:59.360 And wait, wait, wait wait this guy who helped you, 3:46:59.480 --> 3:47:02.480 who paid for that out of the Western's a real studio. 3:47:02.760 --> 3:47:05.320 Yeah no, No, what happened was this drummer I had, 3:47:05.400 --> 3:47:11.800 Stuart h Stuart Perry replaced him because Richard Coffee, the 3:47:12.200 --> 3:47:15.160 guy that I met through another guy from Tulsa. There's 3:47:15.160 --> 3:47:17.680 this whole weird you know, Tulsa is a weird music scene. 3:47:17.760 --> 3:47:20.040 They don't know, they don't know if they're over under 3:47:20.120 --> 3:47:23.160 sideways down right there. Because the culture the continent meets, 3:47:23.520 --> 3:47:27.760 it's the South meeting the northeast, Midwest. It's oil money, 3:47:27.920 --> 3:47:31.760 it's big oil money. You know, the Phillips petroleum fortunes there, 3:47:31.879 --> 3:47:34.280 Phillips sixty six men. They've got one of the great 3:47:34.400 --> 3:47:38.040 museums of art there. But they are Oakie's you know. 3:47:38.480 --> 3:47:41.240 On top of it. Leon Russell is the example, right, 3:47:41.280 --> 3:47:44.440 he comes out of oak you know. So the drummer 3:47:44.560 --> 3:47:47.440 Richard Coffee who's from Tulsa, who I've met through another 3:47:48.440 --> 3:47:51.360 Tulsa character. They are characters, the guys that come up. 3:47:51.680 --> 3:47:54.640 Even Tom Petty has a Tulsa connection. Mudd Coach went 3:47:54.720 --> 3:47:59.119 through their right and Tom Petty. If I'm not mistaken 3:47:59.560 --> 3:48:03.600 what I've Yeah, he played bass on a Tulsa record 3:48:03.720 --> 3:48:07.400 by Dwight Twilley I'm on Fire, remember that, which had 3:48:07.480 --> 3:48:13.040 Phil of course, I'm on fire. You record in l A. 3:48:13.640 --> 3:48:17.400 Oh you don't, you don't, you don't, God. 3:48:17.360 --> 3:48:24.520 No, no, Phil Seymour was really and then he put 3:48:24.560 --> 3:48:26.680 out a solo album. Then he died very quickly. 3:48:26.800 --> 3:48:30.520 Yeah, very he had cancer, I guess. And but but 3:48:30.640 --> 3:48:33.320 he was the drummer for Dwight Twilley and and right, 3:48:33.480 --> 3:48:34.279 but he also. 3:48:35.600 --> 3:48:37.960 He also sang in a lot. I would see Dwight 3:48:38.080 --> 3:48:41.200 Twilly at Madam Wong remember, Oh my. 3:48:41.360 --> 3:48:45.520 God, And and well, Phil then had the plym Souls. 3:48:45.840 --> 3:48:48.800 That was his band, right, Well, the Phillip. 3:48:48.640 --> 3:48:52.000 Soles was the guy who went Folky and went on Geffen. 3:48:52.640 --> 3:48:55.440 Oh God, what it was married to the woman? Uh 3:48:57.120 --> 3:48:58.600 not lud Williams, l. 3:48:59.240 --> 3:49:04.240 Williams somebody, somebody Williams, Williams, Lucinda. 3:49:05.240 --> 3:49:08.120 No, it wasn't Lucinda. The name was Williams. How come 3:49:08.120 --> 3:49:10.160 I can't remember the name. I'll look this up in 3:49:10.200 --> 3:49:11.840 a minute. Because the guy from the Plimso has been 3:49:11.880 --> 3:49:14.960 in La forever and he changed from being a rocker 3:49:15.720 --> 3:49:19.840 to be a country Uh, Peter Case. 3:49:20.440 --> 3:49:24.000 Peter Case, that was his band. You're right, the Plymsols 3:49:24.880 --> 3:49:28.240 Phil Seymour, and I've misstated that a few times over 3:49:28.280 --> 3:49:30.920 the years. If Phil just went on to Geffen and 3:49:31.000 --> 3:49:34.360 had a solo thing, right Phil Seymour, I think it was. 3:49:35.040 --> 3:49:39.200 I owned the album on Arista for some reason, but 3:49:39.280 --> 3:49:41.440 it was all about Denny Cordell's stuff at that point, 3:49:41.760 --> 3:49:45.680 which was Leon's label. Right. They shared Shelter Records, right, 3:49:46.240 --> 3:49:51.960 and Denny Cordell, who is famous for Flippers the roller 3:49:52.080 --> 3:49:54.960 rink right at the corner of Losienega and Santa Monica, 3:49:55.160 --> 3:49:58.480 believe me, where they would have everybody. The King Be's 3:49:58.560 --> 3:50:00.440 played in the middle because I knew those guys and 3:50:00.480 --> 3:50:02.320 I would go watch him try and get out there 3:50:02.360 --> 3:50:04.600 with their gear in the middle of the roller rink. 3:50:05.040 --> 3:50:07.160 It was in the whole rage of you know, chaer 3:50:07.360 --> 3:50:10.240 was in their roller skating and yeah, it's crazy. 3:50:10.520 --> 3:50:16.280 Okay, anyway, so wait, wait, wait, King Be's Jamie Paul Warren. 3:50:16.760 --> 3:50:20.280 They used to play everywhere all the time. As far 3:50:20.360 --> 3:50:23.800 as Flipper's Roller Disco, I certainly went there and roller skated. 3:50:24.440 --> 3:50:28.920 But you remember when Reagan was shot and they delayed 3:50:29.160 --> 3:50:34.400 the oscars by one day, and that second day second 3:50:34.480 --> 3:50:36.680 day was Prince at Flippers. 3:50:36.960 --> 3:50:41.960 At Flippers, it was on the Dirty Mind album. My God, 3:50:42.280 --> 3:50:43.040 I went there. 3:50:44.160 --> 3:50:47.640 Maybe there were thirty people in the audience, and he did. 3:50:47.560 --> 3:50:48.240 The whole act. 3:50:48.360 --> 3:50:52.240 He was jumping on the bed and everything unbelievable. 3:50:51.920 --> 3:50:54.240 In the middle of the roller rink. Well, that's la 3:50:54.600 --> 3:50:57.080 and that's where we were, you know. It's nineteen eighty 3:50:57.080 --> 3:51:01.520 eighty one, so eighty and then leads into yeah, eighty 3:51:01.600 --> 3:51:06.280 to eighty one. Because I'd switched from playing driving air freight, 3:51:06.360 --> 3:51:10.960 I took a job with United Couriers uci there were 3:51:11.000 --> 3:51:15.000 that red dot I drilled bank checks right in the 3:51:15.160 --> 3:51:19.560 Armored Car Company, you know. Anyway, because i'd started, I 3:51:19.560 --> 3:51:22.760 had gone back to La City College, like I mentioned 3:51:22.760 --> 3:51:27.440 to earlier, and was fooling around with that, and uh, 3:51:28.320 --> 3:51:31.320 you know, thinking, well, I guess, you know, if it 3:51:31.400 --> 3:51:33.760 doesn't happen by the time I'm thirty or thirty one, 3:51:33.760 --> 3:51:36.080 I'm probably twenty seven. At that point, I'm thinking I 3:51:36.200 --> 3:51:41.000 better at least re you know, recalibrate or something. And 3:51:41.200 --> 3:51:45.800 so I am doing that at daytime. And Richard Coffee 3:51:46.040 --> 3:51:48.920 leaves me with stupe Perry as a drummer, but he 3:51:49.040 --> 3:51:52.040 also introduces me to a house engineer at United Western. 3:51:52.600 --> 3:51:56.840 His name's Gordon Shryock, and he was this real tall, lanky, 3:51:56.960 --> 3:51:59.560 like six to two, with a redheaded guy that had 3:51:59.720 --> 3:52:02.800 curved red hair like a you know, a natural and 3:52:03.680 --> 3:52:08.160 he had a band called the Mundane Willis World Review. 3:52:08.320 --> 3:52:11.040 That's a very tulsa kind of take on life, The 3:52:11.200 --> 3:52:14.600 Mundane Willis World Review. But he was a staff engineer 3:52:15.080 --> 3:52:18.600 and he did Andre Crouch, he did Natalie Cole, you 3:52:18.680 --> 3:52:22.280 know at United Western Engineering, right, I mean everybody. He 3:52:22.360 --> 3:52:26.160 knew Leon really well, you know, and he heard me 3:52:26.320 --> 3:52:29.880 sing and I played these songs. He said, now dig 3:52:31.280 --> 3:52:33.920 and he said, that's good stuff. So he decided, he said, 3:52:33.960 --> 3:52:36.280 but they're going to call this rock and roll because 3:52:36.280 --> 3:52:40.000 it's so you know, hillbilly and we cut and they're 3:52:40.120 --> 3:52:45.600 on my thirtieth anniversary re released The Guitarist Cadillacts and 3:52:45.760 --> 3:52:49.680 on the box set in two thousand and two. I 3:52:49.720 --> 3:52:52.520 think we put that out, a three or four CD 3:52:52.680 --> 3:52:55.600 box set Reprise Please Baby. But they're on the re 3:52:55.720 --> 3:52:59.920 release of The Guitars Cadillacts, the thirtieth anniversary Deluxe dish 3:53:00.160 --> 3:53:03.720 of that, those demos and it's interesting to hear because 3:53:04.200 --> 3:53:11.160 Gordon put together Glendy Harden on piano. And I'm getting 3:53:11.200 --> 3:53:13.720 off driving I was still driving Airborne at that point. 3:53:13.760 --> 3:53:16.880 Actually I was getting off to Airborne and going to 3:53:16.960 --> 3:53:19.960 the United Western because he had SPEC time so there's 3:53:20.000 --> 3:53:22.840 no charge. And he was he said, okay, well, if 3:53:22.880 --> 3:53:24.600 we make this go, if I get you signed, if 3:53:24.640 --> 3:53:27.760 I do, I'll I'll take half the publishing. You know, 3:53:27.840 --> 3:53:29.680 he was going to own part of the public. That's 3:53:29.680 --> 3:53:31.400 why we do it on the on the spec right, 3:53:32.160 --> 3:53:34.320 And I said, oh, you know, okay, look back now, 3:53:34.480 --> 3:53:37.760 so I don't know it. You know, I didn't didn't 3:53:37.800 --> 3:53:43.520 give it away. And but but we cut I think 3:53:43.640 --> 3:53:48.800 we cut eight or nine tracks in there, and and 3:53:48.880 --> 3:53:50.920 he had some connections in Nashville, and I went down 3:53:50.960 --> 3:53:52.760 there and pitched around and they just looked at me. 3:53:52.840 --> 3:53:59.040 But I did. Glendie Harden on piano, David Mansfield played 3:53:59.080 --> 3:54:03.880 fiddle and mandolin. Yeah, I mean, coming right off of 3:54:04.360 --> 3:54:07.640 Days of Heaven, you know the film the Michael Chimino, right, 3:54:08.160 --> 3:54:12.720 and he come out of David rolling thunder renew right, 3:54:12.960 --> 3:54:16.080 He's I mean it was the Prodigy, but so David's 3:54:16.120 --> 3:54:19.560 playing the mandolin fiddle on those demos, Glendy Harden on piano, 3:54:20.240 --> 3:54:23.080 Jerry McGee on guitar, you know Jerry McGee from The 3:54:23.200 --> 3:54:27.840 Ventures and Monkeys, and again a Wrecking Crew guy peripherally, uh, 3:54:27.960 --> 3:54:30.840 and Robert Wilson, this young bass player out of New Orleans. 3:54:31.880 --> 3:54:34.560 So that's what And then we had I'm trying to 3:54:34.560 --> 3:54:38.960 remember the steel players that did it. So that's what 3:54:39.040 --> 3:54:41.920 I'm doing. It didn't cost me anything. I showed up, 3:54:42.400 --> 3:54:44.800 you know, after work night, and we cut in the 3:54:44.960 --> 3:54:48.200 smallest room over there where we tracked at a parquet floor. 3:54:48.600 --> 3:54:52.880 It's now Studio D because they have no it's now 3:54:53.120 --> 3:54:57.320 Studio four, but it was, uh one is the big 3:54:57.400 --> 3:55:00.320 room over there, Studio one, two, and then three Rick 3:55:00.400 --> 3:55:03.360 Rubin Love's Studio two over there a lot that's a 3:55:03.560 --> 3:55:05.320 I mean those studios and I would be standing and 3:55:05.400 --> 3:55:08.680 I cut vocals then out in the big room which 3:55:08.800 --> 3:55:11.840 Sinatra built. I learned a lot of this later. I'm like, 3:55:12.640 --> 3:55:15.440 what an auspicious start to that I'm cutting for a 3:55:15.560 --> 3:55:18.280 first time in a real studio in LA and it's 3:55:18.320 --> 3:55:21.720 with this guy, Gordon SHROI all this Tulsa connection. And 3:55:22.040 --> 3:55:25.160 so I did that, and they had those demos, you know, 3:55:26.920 --> 3:55:30.440 in hand, and it kind of gone Nashville for a 3:55:30.520 --> 3:55:33.680 brief time to visit. My dad was in Louisville. I 3:55:33.760 --> 3:55:37.680 took his truck, got the Louisville and drove down and 3:55:37.840 --> 3:55:39.840 drove to Nashville and spent days down there trying to 3:55:39.880 --> 3:55:41.880 get somebody to listen and look at this stuff. And 3:55:42.000 --> 3:55:45.160 it was the songs that made up parts of the 3:55:45.200 --> 3:55:48.520 first three albums, you know. Eventually and a couple of 3:55:48.560 --> 3:55:50.600 them we became big hits. And they just kind of 3:55:50.640 --> 3:55:53.520 looked at it and blinked and didn't quite know what 3:55:53.640 --> 3:55:54.920 to make of me or what to do with it 3:55:55.560 --> 3:55:58.640 and that's when things changed and we can pick it 3:55:58.720 --> 3:55:59.600 up on the next one. 3:56:00.120 --> 3:56:02.120 Yes, Dwight, I think we've come to the end of 3:56:02.160 --> 3:56:06.000 the feeling we've known. There's a whole nother story when 3:56:06.040 --> 3:56:09.240 you emerge on the national stage. We'll get back to that. 3:56:09.800 --> 3:56:12.120 We want to thank you. The other side of the hills, 3:56:12.960 --> 3:56:14.920 on the Hollywood side of the hills. 3:56:14.720 --> 3:56:18.600 Well, you know, then there's there's that, and then there's 3:56:18.840 --> 3:56:22.840 the twenty first century, which we're still figuring out on. 3:56:22.960 --> 3:56:23.880 So many levels. 3:56:24.040 --> 3:56:26.560 From one, I mean, you had, you had a kid, 3:56:26.760 --> 3:56:29.160 so it makes sense the rest of us are still 3:56:29.240 --> 3:56:31.960 wandering through the universe trying to figure out what's going on. 3:56:32.720 --> 3:56:36.480 I don't know, but the kid just looks at me. 3:56:36.560 --> 3:56:41.920 He was on the phone with them, Okay, daddy, hang up, daddy. 3:56:43.400 --> 3:56:46.680 Oh little kids, right right right then I hung. 3:56:46.680 --> 3:56:48.920 Up on me, and then she mayn't call back. I'm sorry. 3:56:49.560 --> 3:56:54.720 You don't ever have to apologize to me, just anyone. 3:56:54.840 --> 3:56:57.120 Well, I'll let you get back home to him. 3:56:57.320 --> 3:56:59.960 Well, I'm actually head of the studio. I'm gonna stop 3:57:00.080 --> 3:57:02.760 there and go I'm trying to finish his record. So 3:57:03.360 --> 3:57:07.400 but you know, Bob, thank you for having me and 3:57:07.760 --> 3:57:08.440 it's it's. 3:57:08.520 --> 3:57:14.480 Well, it's great talking to you because it makes all 3:57:14.600 --> 3:57:17.000 that stuff that I have in my brain important than 3:57:17.040 --> 3:57:18.320 my parents. You know, what, are you going to stop 3:57:18.360 --> 3:57:21.480 buying records for this girl I lived with? I didn't 3:57:21.480 --> 3:57:24.680 think I was moving in with your records and you 3:57:24.760 --> 3:57:29.320 know all these cultural references that means so much to us. 3:57:29.760 --> 3:57:31.240 We got to talk about that, and we've got to 3:57:31.240 --> 3:57:34.120 talk about free and how good all right now? Is? 3:57:35.240 --> 3:57:38.440 I mean the stuff that we That's the best song 3:57:38.560 --> 3:57:41.600 ever played on a state fair, County fair in Midway 3:57:42.040 --> 3:57:44.920 because you know who play the guy doing the Himalayan ride? 3:57:44.960 --> 3:57:48.640 Remember that ride? The Hemmel was the sled Because I 3:57:48.800 --> 3:57:52.680 was not a ride freak. I'd get motion sick real quick. 3:57:53.520 --> 3:57:56.040 But that ride with the mirror balloman and the guy 3:57:56.200 --> 3:57:59.600 was up there ex connor and escape the microphone around 3:57:59.640 --> 3:58:02.960 his neck, going you want to go faster? That's all 3:58:02.960 --> 3:58:05.920 I would yell, and it would be all right. 3:58:05.840 --> 3:58:09.400 Now, Well the other thing do you have? It was 3:58:09.440 --> 3:58:12.440 a double CD. Now there are no CDs. There's a 3:58:12.600 --> 3:58:17.280 free anthology called Molten Gold. I was a free fan. 3:58:17.680 --> 3:58:21.280 I bought that album Fire and Water. There is shiit 3:58:21.440 --> 3:58:25.880 on that album. You know there's I'll be Creeping. 3:58:28.280 --> 3:58:29.880 All I knew was all right now. 3:58:30.200 --> 3:58:32.560 Okay, and they have the Steeler. Do you know the Steeler? 3:58:32.800 --> 3:58:35.600 I've heard the Steeler because. 3:58:35.320 --> 3:58:37.880 Even Bob, you know, Bob Secret had all those Bob 3:58:37.920 --> 3:58:42.600 Segart was on Capitol, went to Warner Brothers, then back 3:58:42.640 --> 3:58:46.680 to Capitol when he went back to the Capitol, right yeah, okay, 3:58:47.040 --> 3:58:50.440 well the Silver Bullet Man was on Capitol, right. 3:58:50.640 --> 3:58:51.680 Yes, that was. 3:58:52.200 --> 3:58:55.240 He came back with the Beautiful Loser album in nineteen 3:58:55.320 --> 3:58:59.240 seventy five, right, But all the albums that he made 3:58:59.320 --> 3:59:05.200 on Warner others he refuses to release really, which is 3:59:05.480 --> 3:59:06.000 just pause. 3:59:06.240 --> 3:59:08.120 You and I have to talk about the insanity of 3:59:08.280 --> 3:59:12.360 fighting streaming. Come on, you know it's not that horse 3:59:12.440 --> 3:59:14.920 is at the barn. You're not going to bring it back, 3:59:15.640 --> 3:59:16.200 you know what I mean. 3:59:16.800 --> 3:59:18.800 And it's like the song believe I know I mean, 3:59:18.880 --> 3:59:22.080 but people don't know. I'm back in seventy two, which 3:59:22.160 --> 3:59:23.040 is a great album. 3:59:23.200 --> 3:59:23.520 Was that on. 3:59:25.680 --> 3:59:28.760 The Katmandu was on Beautiful Loser and then on Live 3:59:28.840 --> 3:59:34.720 Bullet in seventy five six? Okay, but the original version 3:59:34.800 --> 3:59:37.440 of Turned the Page, which is now seen as a 3:59:37.520 --> 3:59:39.560 Metallica song, do you know that song. 3:59:40.120 --> 3:59:44.360 Yeah, ohly, I know Bob Seger's good loop Segret. It's 3:59:44.680 --> 3:59:49.000 it's haunting, it's unbelievable to turn the page, Seeger. And 3:59:49.120 --> 3:59:52.400 that's that Detroit stuff, because you know, Seeger was working 3:59:52.480 --> 3:59:56.680 with Mitch Ryder when he was and Mit Mitch oh 3:59:56.880 --> 3:59:59.840 Man and Pete told me a story when he said 4:00:00.080 --> 4:00:03.240 want and saw the writer ramp through the Peppermint Lounge 4:00:03.280 --> 4:00:07.120 and then just released Jenny Jenny, and you know, right 4:00:07.200 --> 4:00:10.640 right right, he said. And they came on stage, he said, 4:00:10.800 --> 4:00:13.360 the Fox, we're all down there in Detroit, and he said, 4:00:13.400 --> 4:00:15.800 we're all jit he said. And they come on stage 4:00:16.120 --> 4:00:18.680 and they stand with their backs to the audience and 4:00:18.840 --> 4:00:22.120 start playing with their backs to the audience. He said. 4:00:22.240 --> 4:00:24.640 They do one whole song, they do another song there 4:00:24.640 --> 4:00:27.680 in the third song, and they won't turn around. Now, 4:00:27.760 --> 4:00:31.480 he said, Detroit people are throwing shoes and throwing shit, 4:00:31.560 --> 4:00:35.120 and he said, and all Seger did was hold his 4:00:35.440 --> 4:00:38.200 middle finger up over his shoulder and keep singing with 4:00:38.320 --> 4:00:41.280 his back to the ground, he said. And then when 4:00:41.320 --> 4:00:45.080 they turned around on the next song, he said, the 4:00:45.240 --> 4:00:49.280 place came apart. And I said, well, that's theater, right, 4:00:49.680 --> 4:00:50.280 that's theater. 4:00:50.400 --> 4:00:52.160 Well, Okay, I got to tell you one more story. 4:00:52.240 --> 4:00:57.240 My friend Richard Griffiths, who ran Virgin Publishing and Epic 4:00:57.480 --> 4:00:59.680 and as a maniter in one direction a million other 4:00:59.760 --> 4:01:03.320 ates at this point, started out as an agent and 4:01:03.440 --> 4:01:07.040 he was the agent for Backstreet Crawler, which was Paul 4:01:07.160 --> 4:01:11.280 cass Off, a Freeze group after free broke up. Now 4:01:11.480 --> 4:01:15.760 Paul was he not the bass player, the kid, no please, 4:01:15.800 --> 4:01:16.560 the guitar player. 4:01:16.640 --> 4:01:19.440 Okay, but the kid bass player you know, wrote that 4:01:19.600 --> 4:01:21.560 in the dressing room. They came right right, right right, 4:01:21.640 --> 4:01:23.560 said we got to have something up to go off. Well, 4:01:23.560 --> 4:01:26.400 we can't just keep going off with blues. It's down man, 4:01:26.720 --> 4:01:28.600 And he's walking around banging and. 4:01:32.440 --> 4:01:35.360 Listen Chris Blackwell, who they were on island, He says 4:01:35.480 --> 4:01:37.760 they were the best act. That was the best act 4:01:37.840 --> 4:01:39.960 he had. They were just too young free well. 4:01:40.240 --> 4:01:43.200 But in any event, never not had a hit with 4:01:43.320 --> 4:01:46.160 anything he's ever done, any band. It was the next 4:01:46.200 --> 4:01:47.720 one's bad company. Well. 4:01:47.720 --> 4:01:51.200 The other thing about Paul Rodgers is he can still sing. 4:01:51.480 --> 4:01:55.480 Oh man, I mean most of those guys cannot, but 4:01:55.960 --> 4:01:56.440 he can. 4:01:56.440 --> 4:02:00.560 Still deliver about Paul Rogers was sitting somewhere with me 4:02:00.720 --> 4:02:04.680 just it's weird. Because they'd asked me to do this 4:02:04.880 --> 4:02:07.360 duet thing he's doing and we're trying to schedule and 4:02:07.720 --> 4:02:09.680 them coming in and out. I think he might have 4:02:09.720 --> 4:02:12.400 had a little bit of help. Stuff go on. There's 4:02:12.400 --> 4:02:14.440 a Paul Rodgers album on foot that he's going to 4:02:14.480 --> 4:02:17.160 do what And I said, man, I'm are you kidding? 4:02:18.200 --> 4:02:20.840 Just a school boy when I heard his very beetlestall 4:02:21.480 --> 4:02:21.840 love him? 4:02:21.960 --> 4:02:23.360 Oh think it wasn't from there. 4:02:23.360 --> 4:02:25.200 It didn't take him long, don't you know? 4:02:26.240 --> 4:02:27.000 Don't you know? 4:02:27.880 --> 4:02:33.080 Don't you know shooting that? You are shooting stuff, don't 4:02:33.160 --> 4:02:33.400 you know? 4:02:34.320 --> 4:02:39.000 Ye Oh God? In the second side, good loving, gone bad, 4:02:39.440 --> 4:02:42.400 all of it. And on the first album s the 4:02:42.560 --> 4:02:43.920 Firm What chi mean, Paige? 4:02:44.480 --> 4:02:44.600 Right? 4:02:44.760 --> 4:02:46.240 Absolutely they had a hit. 4:02:46.320 --> 4:02:50.160 Then he did in the nineties Bobby did the Law 4:02:50.360 --> 4:02:52.240 and they had a hit laying. 4:02:52.080 --> 4:02:55.760 Down the law. Yeah, I know because the same manager 4:02:55.880 --> 4:02:59.320 is the manager of Ceezy top All was the one 4:03:00.120 --> 4:03:00.760 send me the record. 4:03:00.840 --> 4:03:01.680 I still have the record. 4:03:01.760 --> 4:03:05.880 You can't even find that. But in any event, so 4:03:06.120 --> 4:03:11.080 he's the manager for he's the agent. Paul Kasof is 4:03:11.160 --> 4:03:14.680 the act. Paul Kassoff dies on the plane from New 4:03:14.800 --> 4:03:21.680 York to London. The opening act is ac DC, but 4:03:21.840 --> 4:03:26.680 the headliner is gone. A CDC says, we're going on 4:03:26.960 --> 4:03:32.040 anyway in this club, okay, there are five people there. 4:03:32.680 --> 4:03:35.600 You walk down the stairs and to this club in England. Okay, 4:03:36.320 --> 4:03:40.200 they do the whole fucking act. They carry uh what's 4:03:40.240 --> 4:03:43.440 his name around on the shoulders. You know, they're playing 4:03:43.440 --> 4:03:46.520 blah blah blah. As soon as yeah, as soon as 4:03:46.600 --> 4:03:50.880 the act is over, angus young. So as soon as 4:03:50.920 --> 4:03:55.240 it's over, the five people, the five people run out 4:03:55.280 --> 4:03:59.800 of the building and my friend is freaking out, not home. 4:04:00.440 --> 4:04:03.760 Did the guy died? Five people came and they immediately left. 4:04:04.560 --> 4:04:06.000 What they didn't know was. 4:04:07.520 --> 4:04:10.000 They were so blown away that all those five people 4:04:10.480 --> 4:04:12.320 ran out to the phone booth. They called me and said, 4:04:12.440 --> 4:04:14.360 you're not going to believe this. You have to come 4:04:14.480 --> 4:04:18.640 back for the second show completely full. But he got 4:04:18.720 --> 4:04:20.080 fired as the agent anyway. 4:04:21.360 --> 4:04:22.720 Yeah, oh. 4:04:24.120 --> 4:04:28.000 Yeah, yeah, but you talk about theater, it used to 4:04:28.160 --> 4:04:31.520 be you had to go see the act, Yeah, because 4:04:31.600 --> 4:04:34.920 they would never play certain songs from the album again, 4:04:35.480 --> 4:04:37.720 and you would come home and tell people say you're 4:04:37.760 --> 4:04:39.760 not going to believe it. Yeah, it's like I remember 4:04:39.840 --> 4:04:43.600 seeing Ziggy stardust Rales Cooper Killer. 4:04:43.760 --> 4:04:44.760 So you're not going to believe it. 4:04:44.840 --> 4:04:46.800 You have to come with me the next time. Now, 4:04:46.880 --> 4:04:49.080 there's none of that because everybody sees everything. 4:04:49.600 --> 4:04:53.600 Yeah, yeah, they think they did, but there's still nothing 4:04:53.680 --> 4:04:56.560 like it live. You see it live. I saw Steely 4:04:56.680 --> 4:04:59.720 Dan in Ohio State. They came out with that second 4:04:59.760 --> 4:05:02.040 A in their debut. They said, here's something new. We're 4:05:02.080 --> 4:05:04.720 just cutting it with Ricky, don't lose that number. And 4:05:04.880 --> 4:05:07.400 I was up in the upper deck of that arena 4:05:07.560 --> 4:05:10.640 was an old where the old basketball arena, and it 4:05:10.720 --> 4:05:12.520 was up there in the nose but in Washington, And 4:05:12.560 --> 4:05:15.840 as soon as you heard, We're like, Wow, that's a hit, 4:05:16.120 --> 4:05:18.520 It's like, Ricky, don't lose. 4:05:19.560 --> 4:05:22.640 Okay, one final question, We're gonna go, who have you 4:05:22.920 --> 4:05:24.960 not met that you'd like to meet? 4:05:25.640 --> 4:05:35.600 Alive? Wow? Alive? That's the trick because there are people 4:05:35.680 --> 4:05:37.800 that I've not had the chance to meet that died 4:05:37.920 --> 4:05:40.480 that I would have maybe had a chance to meet. 4:05:41.600 --> 4:05:44.840 I'm trying to think of it as anybody that I've 4:05:44.880 --> 4:05:49.920 actually I've met, Robert plant Uh and you know Fan Up, 4:05:50.120 --> 4:05:56.560 you know guys somebody that used that he's deceased. God, 4:05:56.560 --> 4:05:59.120 I would have loved to met Sam Cook. You know, 4:05:59.360 --> 4:06:02.880 I'm i'm, I'm bending the margins here for your parameters. 4:06:02.920 --> 4:06:06.520 But but I just think that's one of the tragedies 4:06:06.800 --> 4:06:10.720 of early death ever. And what a pinky weird deal 4:06:10.840 --> 4:06:13.840 that was, you know. And and it's still this dad 4:06:14.000 --> 4:06:16.840 thing somewhat dubious as to how he got set up, 4:06:17.120 --> 4:06:19.960 you know, that night with it. I mean, when you 4:06:20.080 --> 4:06:23.400 think about what he did, what he was doing the 4:06:23.520 --> 4:06:26.320 father of so really Sam Cook, you know, in terms 4:06:26.360 --> 4:06:30.120 of taking gospel style stuff and bringing I mean, what 4:06:30.320 --> 4:06:33.960 he was doing the songs he wrote. Bob, I mean, anyway, 4:06:34.080 --> 4:06:37.200 so you you limited me to somebody alive, you know 4:06:37.280 --> 4:06:38.880 what I'll know the next time we talk. 4:06:39.640 --> 4:06:42.760 Okay, we'll leave it here, otherwise we'll be talking into 4:06:42.800 --> 4:06:45.840 the next century. In any event, I want to thank. 4:06:45.680 --> 4:06:46.160 You, Dwight. 4:06:46.440 --> 4:06:48.960 Till next time. This is Bob left Sex