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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is my friend Dwight. Yoakum, Dwight. Good

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Speaker 1: to be talking to you.

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Speaker 2: Good to talk to you, buddy. I'm I'm always flattered

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Speaker 2: you will consider me a friend and thank you. From

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Speaker 2: the time we last sol and I think we were

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Speaker 2: in the bottom of the it was pre COVID because

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Speaker 2: we were in the building over at the at XM

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Speaker 2: when we all were going up. You were passing me

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Speaker 2: in the night on an elevator. You were coming from

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Speaker 2: doing your show and I was just starting my you know,

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Speaker 2: my nocturnal vampire kind of you know.

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Speaker 1: Okay, people can't see. This is audio only, but you're

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Speaker 1: wearing a hat with STP.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just don't have my foster grants on.

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Speaker 2: You know, Richard Petty, you won't see remember, you won't

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Speaker 2: see me driving without him.

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Speaker 1: Well, I just remember the sixties STP was such a

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Speaker 1: big and people started talking what did it mean? And

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Speaker 1: it was stop teenage pregnancy.

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Speaker 2: And no scientifically treated petroleum.

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Speaker 1: I do know that, but you know, in the pre

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Speaker 1: internet era, it took years to figure to find that out.

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Speaker 2: When I walk around with this at tow. I always

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Speaker 2: let a cool hat and I go not the Stone

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Speaker 2: Temple pilots.

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Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, that's what it is. How many baseball

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Speaker 1: style hats do you have?

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Speaker 2: Too many? You can't get the good ones anymore. The

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Speaker 2: problem is they went to low Crown. Look, you and

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Speaker 2: I we've never really gotten deep into what year are

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Speaker 2: you born? You born? You older than me.

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Speaker 1: I'm three years older. I was born in fifty three

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Speaker 1: year were born in fifty six?

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Speaker 2: Fifty six? Yes, but we're in a window. I've I

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Speaker 2: came I think from a point of origin that left

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Speaker 2: me with the uh, the cynical side of the sixties.

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Speaker 2: You know, I kind of came out of it because

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Speaker 2: I graduated high school in seventy four. You got out

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Speaker 2: in seventy one or seventy seventy, seventy seventy. Yeah, would

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Speaker 2: you graduate early?

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Speaker 1: I skipped a grade way back.

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Speaker 2: Whatever I was gonna see, I want you to show off.

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Speaker 1: You set that up for me pretty well.

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Speaker 2: You were scheduled. Yes, he's an advanced placement kid, this

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Speaker 2: guy so so. I, on the other hand, should have

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Speaker 2: been held back a year because my birthday's almost November

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Speaker 2: is October twenty third, and now they wouldn't have let

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Speaker 2: me go. I would have done better academically, as I

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Speaker 2: looked back at it, because I was, you know, I

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Speaker 2: used to we get in junior high. You had, you know,

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Speaker 2: no singular class that you were stuck in and you

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Speaker 2: could do whatever. And I had study hall periods and

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Speaker 2: I skipped him, you know where I didn't go outside

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Speaker 2: and you know, screw around and smoke with friends or anything,

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Speaker 2: because I never smoked. But I was in the library.

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Speaker 2: They had a library in the junior high and I

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Speaker 2: would sit there and just read the encyclopedia. And when

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Speaker 2: I thought back about it, after I did some college,

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Speaker 2: you got went to Ohio State. My favorite courses were

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Speaker 2: you know, lecture courses, you know, things where there was

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Speaker 2: a full professor dealing in rhetoric, you know. And then

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Speaker 2: these were because you went to a small school. Right now,

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Speaker 2: my high.

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Speaker 1: School, well everything's relative. I grew up in the suburbs.

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Speaker 1: High school had eighteen hundred people.

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Speaker 2: Well I had two thousand. We were in Columbus at

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Speaker 2: that point, so I was a two thousand, you know

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Speaker 2: person high school. It was a spread over of the

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Speaker 2: three classes. It was a sophomore, junior, senior but meaning

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Speaker 2: university though college you went to.

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Speaker 1: I went to a very small college in Vermont. It

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Speaker 1: had eighteen hundred students. And that was in the dark era,

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Speaker 1: pre internet, pre DVD, pre cable, like you had to

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Speaker 1: entertain yourself.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was at Ohio State when it was sixty

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Speaker 2: one thousand students on one campus. It was a small

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Speaker 2: city in itself, but so I had So you had

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Speaker 2: tas you know usually you know grad students that were

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Speaker 2: you know for a freshman chorus or a sophomore course.

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Speaker 2: You pick those up. But once a week you would

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Speaker 2: end up in that in a grand lecture hall with

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Speaker 2: the full professor you know who ran you know that

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Speaker 2: it was, you know, sometimes head of a department or whatever.

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Speaker 2: I found myself really fascinating with that when I and

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Speaker 2: I what, we just went off and I took you

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Speaker 2: down a rabbit hole here that you.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, that digression is a spice of life.

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Speaker 1: I got a lot of questions. Let's start at the end.

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Speaker 1: So how hard How hard was it to drop out

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Speaker 1: of college?

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Speaker 2: Not at all. I kind of did it by default.

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Speaker 2: I was just kind of just quit going to classes

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Speaker 2: and there was no formal kind of you know, removing

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Speaker 2: them myself. I just uh, I left and and and

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Speaker 2: I came. Well, I'd gone to Nashville first. And then

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Speaker 2: a buddy of mine, a kid that was a year

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Speaker 2: younger kid, uh, a guitar player named Bill Alves who

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Speaker 2: was in stage band with me in high school, a

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Speaker 2: year behind my class, and he was in this greaser

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Speaker 2: band that we had had out of the theater department

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Speaker 2: that you know, because Shananah and all that had blown up,

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Speaker 2: you know, in the ensuing years after Woodstock, they kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, that whole revival, the throwback stuff of

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Speaker 2: the fifties. And at this this variety show that the

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Speaker 2: theater department had at my high school, I front of

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Speaker 2: this band. It became Dwight and the Greasers because they

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Speaker 2: were all gassed back with duct tails and everything. And

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Speaker 2: we actually opened in Columbus at the Loew's Theater the

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Speaker 2: weekend they opened American Graffiti. They had us perform. Wow

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Speaker 2: people did people well, no, but people didn't know what

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Speaker 2: between the showing the screenings, and it was one of

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Speaker 2: those old, you know, eight hundred seat modern but that

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Speaker 2: big span of you know, not like the Cinerama dome,

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Speaker 2: but but big and we were this tiny thing down there,

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Speaker 2: jumping around between the screenings of the different you know

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Speaker 2: of graffiti and doing that. It was kind of you know,

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Speaker 2: it was kind of interesting and weird. But I so

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Speaker 2: Bill Alves, the guitar player who was in that, and

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Speaker 2: have been in Stage Man a couple of years after

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Speaker 2: I was out of high school and was at Ohio State.

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Speaker 2: You noticed my colloquialism there. My granny would always down

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Speaker 2: in southeast Kentucky where I was born, would say, are

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Speaker 2: you all doing well up in Ohio, Ohio? Very properly say?

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Speaker 2: And I'd say, you know, we would, those of us

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Speaker 2: from Columbus and south to the river. It was a

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Speaker 2: Hia high It's like so Ohio State. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I left, and my intention was I went back to

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Speaker 2: La City. Out here, I actually had better professors. I

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Speaker 2: had guys at La City College that were full PhD teaching.

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Speaker 2: You know, where I was picking up, you know, sophomore

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Speaker 2: year stuff. You know, I thought, well, I'll pick up

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Speaker 2: you know where I left off there and do an

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Speaker 2: AA and go to UCLA. I will transfer over. And

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Speaker 2: that got interrupted by what I was doing, you know,

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Speaker 2: finally in the clubs out here and then having a

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Speaker 2: moment of you know, just seeing the reality of what

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Speaker 2: I'd come to the you know, West Coast for. But

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Speaker 2: Billy olves went back to the finished this said to me.

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Speaker 2: In the winter of seventy seven, he said, Hey, you're

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Speaker 2: gonna go with me. I'm going to my He and

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Speaker 2: aunt and uncle lived out and here in Tustin, the

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Speaker 2: you know, down in Orange County. He said, I'm going

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Speaker 2: out there. You're going with me. He had its nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy Volkswagen bug and we loaded everything I owned, which

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Speaker 2: wasn't much, but we had you know, Duffel bags on

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Speaker 2: the roof and drove from Columbus on I seventy. You know,

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Speaker 2: we took that highway away and he spent a couple

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Speaker 2: three months and went home. By July fourth, he was

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Speaker 2: out and U I stayed. I didn't even have a bicycle,

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Speaker 2: you know. I rode the bus and we ended up

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Speaker 2: in Long Beach, living on the beach, and I rode

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Speaker 2: the bus to Bullock's Lakewood. Are you've been out here

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Speaker 2: long enough to remember Bullocks? Right?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, absolutely, I've been out here longer than you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's a mid seventies, so seventy seven. I

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Speaker 2: got here, arrived and I ended up working there, and

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Speaker 2: I worked at moving furniture for a time and then

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Speaker 2: I drove air freight. But anyway, so yeah, I ended

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Speaker 2: up out here and stayed and planning. Let's go back

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Speaker 2: a few seconds.

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Speaker 1: You brought up the fact that you were born in

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Speaker 1: November in the fact that today, well, lamber hold on

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Speaker 1: one second, since you were one of the youngest kids

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Speaker 1: in the class, did that affect how people treated you

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Speaker 1: in your personality?

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Speaker 2: Maybe maybe, I think back, I never got bullied. I

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Speaker 2: was kind of the wallflower kid. That was what was

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Speaker 2: weird when I got to I remember at the end

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Speaker 2: of elementary, I was in a large old school, McGuffey Elementary,

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Speaker 2: Junior High combined, and so they would have a talent

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Speaker 2: show and I was up in there until fifth grade.

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Speaker 2: And this is in Columbus. Like I said, we had

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Speaker 2: made the move, you know, out of Appalachia at that

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Speaker 2: point up and for anybody that wants me to say Appalachia,

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Speaker 2: I ain't gonna do it. No. Somebody started chastising me

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Speaker 2: on either how can you being from here? And I'd

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Speaker 2: say Apple, I'd say, yeah, I've never heard it called Appalachia,

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Speaker 2: except if you're in Florida, you know Apple, Apa Cola

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Speaker 2: or whatever the swamps and the lakes are anyway, and

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Speaker 2: Stuart Copelan would have said Appalachian Spring. Right. So in

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Speaker 2: any event, this is a great book. By the way,

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Speaker 2: have you read the United States Appalachian I haven't.

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Speaker 1: But if we're going to digress, I remember my roommate

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Speaker 1: first year in college, his girlfriend went to Appalachian State,

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Speaker 1: which was in western Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 2: The other one is in North Carolina, Appalachian State, right, Oh,

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Speaker 2: that's what I meant. Yeah, North Carolina, boone, North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: I'm confusing two parts of my life, but you're right.

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Speaker 1: I had friends went to Appalachian State.

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Speaker 2: Who I do that myself on more than one occasion.

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Speaker 2: I confuse.

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Speaker 1: But also there's an ally I kind of ed what

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Speaker 1: I would say to so many times. It's like a

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Speaker 1: tongue twister. Appalachia Cola in Florida too.

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Speaker 2: That's what yeah, which to me, that's where I heard Appalachia,

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Speaker 2: and it's Appalachia where I was, and I was born

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Speaker 2: there anyway, So I mean, so whatever I ended up, Uh, well,

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Speaker 2: you started to say something, how was affected by that.

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Speaker 2: I didn't think about it at the time, because you know,

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Speaker 2: I was gonna be five years old and he told,

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Speaker 2: you know, nineteen whatever. That was sixty one. I guess.

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Speaker 2: I went to kindergarten and I was the oldest kid

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Speaker 2: in my family. They didn't have an older sibling, which

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Speaker 2: had a lot to do with how I embraced music

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Speaker 2: or didn't. In other words, the Beatles were a little

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Speaker 2: beyond me. And I said to Mike ness With one time,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was a huge Monkeys fan, and I

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Speaker 2: probably got one of the best educations I could have

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Speaker 2: ever had with those first two Monkeys albums. Now that

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Speaker 2: I know what went on with that, right, that's the

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Speaker 2: Wrecking Crew. I'm listening to Carol King, Neil Diamond, the writers, right,

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Speaker 2: John Stewart people and Boyce and Hart, you know, do

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Speaker 2: backwards inversions of Paperback Writer when they do you know,

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Speaker 2: last prand to Clarksville's opening. And I was down in

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Speaker 2: the basement with a half baked drum kit because I

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Speaker 2: had a real snare drumm and then we had one

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Speaker 2: of those sort of not real the rest of the kit.

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Speaker 2: My parents couldn't afford, you know, to do that. But

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Speaker 2: I had that, and my mother ranted. She was at

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Speaker 2: that point working at a place called Columbus Autoparts, a

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Speaker 2: factory that supplied stuff out of Detroit. Used to Joe

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Speaker 2: and say that our family didn't make it to Detroit.

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Speaker 2: We only got gas enough to get to Columbus, and

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Speaker 2: had to make her stand there was actually that there

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Speaker 2: were a family that was there, you know, on her side,

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Speaker 2: out of Kentucky, that had moved up ahead. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you've read Hibiliology. I'm sure you have,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, I have the book and I told Ron Howard.

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Speaker 2: I did the reading with him, and he had asked

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Speaker 2: me about doing a role, and I couldn't schedule wise

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Speaker 2: do it. But the thing that I was remiss about

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Speaker 2: was that they weren't doing it as a series. I

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Speaker 2: thought as a series he would give the breath and

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Speaker 2: width of that life and what he was, you know,

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Speaker 2: the story he was telling that as opposed to a film,

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Speaker 2: which we got four hours. Right, we can get into.

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Speaker 1: This with we go as long as you want.

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Speaker 2: Digress No, but your streaming observations are the greatest, because

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Speaker 2: it's maddening to me that we have to wait like

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Speaker 2: it's nineteen sixty six for the next episode or something.

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Speaker 2: I want to strangle the TV when I look up

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Speaker 2: on and Amazon used to not do it right going backwards.

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Speaker 2: Now they're doing it. It's like what in the anyway?

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Speaker 2: So I'm an oldest kid of three, so I'm kind

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Speaker 2: of on my where were you in family line? Were

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Speaker 2: you give an older son? No?

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Speaker 1: But since you're the oldest kids to three, how old

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Speaker 1: are the other?

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Speaker 2: Next? It's three little Indians. It's like two years separate

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Speaker 2: my brother and then three to my sister. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's a three total, right, there's still that hierarchy because

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Speaker 2: of school. I'm two grades ahead of him and three

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Speaker 2: grades ahead of her, you know, but.

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Speaker 1: Usually the oldest, my younger sister's really into birth order.

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Speaker 1: I'm the middle. Usually all the hopes and dreams in

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Speaker 1: the family are in the oldest.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it's a lot of weight. It's like, even

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Speaker 2: if it's only two, they make that and uh, you're

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Speaker 2: the middle. You went outside the home to seek attention.

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Speaker 2: That's I'm still seeking attention. Well, there was there was, Well,

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Speaker 2: there was a great book I think my sophomore year

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Speaker 2: of college at Ohio State that that Uh, it was

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Speaker 2: called firstborn second born. I've never been able to find

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Speaker 2: it since I've looked on Amazon. Every firstborn second born

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Speaker 2: sibling birth order traits and it broke down, you know,

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Speaker 2: and in large families, it goes in subgroups. You know.

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Speaker 2: They used the Kennedy family as an example of there's

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Speaker 2: a second oldest, there's a My mom came from six

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Speaker 2: my wife Emily, who actually shot photos of us and

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Speaker 2: videoed us that night that we had you do the

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Speaker 2: Beatles song with us. We She is the oldest daughter

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Speaker 2: of twelve kids, so that's a whole another dynamic because

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Speaker 2: she becomes the mother. Hint right, the last three could Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they were. Well, there was an eleveniese Catholic family that

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Speaker 2: on the one side, she Danish Irish on the other

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Speaker 2: and uh but anyway, so yeah, I remember one time

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Speaker 2: I went to camp and the councilors my brother hadn't

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Speaker 2: been there the previous year I had gone. I was old,

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Speaker 2: you know, going to a summer you know, uh, a

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Speaker 2: youth camp, church, youth camp. So I went down there

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Speaker 2: and this is I think back, because at the time,

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Speaker 2: it's just the kind you know, it's your life. You

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Speaker 2: don't know any different right, you don't know, there's no

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Speaker 2: counterpoint to it. And uh, I went down there. It's

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Speaker 2: in southern Ohio. It was an old it was an old. Uh.

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Speaker 2: I think may had predated World War One, but it

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Speaker 2: was an old. It was called Fort Hill in southeastern

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Speaker 2: Ohio between Cincinnati and Portsmouth along you know, and you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of north of the Ohio River. Beautiful down there

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Speaker 2: in the hills. And they had these huge cabins that

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Speaker 2: all the you know, the boys would stay in and

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Speaker 2: the girls were on the other side of the camp,

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Speaker 2: on the other And I had a ball the first

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Speaker 2: year I was there. The next year that I went,

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Speaker 2: my brother was of age that he could go, so

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Speaker 2: he came with right the middle right, and they called

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Speaker 2: my parents after about the third day and said, look, uh,

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Speaker 2: they says there's something wrong because my brother had some

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Speaker 2: issues when he was young. He had had some convulsions

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Speaker 2: and he had some I don't know what meds. He

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Speaker 2: probably on riddle and I don't know now what, you

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Speaker 2: know what the fifties, sixties, you know, were giving kids whatever.

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Speaker 2: He was. He was an ad D kid, you know,

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Speaker 2: became actually later classically flew jets. You know, he was

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Speaker 2: a charter jet pilot and you know, really smart guy,

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Speaker 2: brilliant kid. He but but he had his struggles, you know,

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Speaker 2: and he and he wasn't taking his medicine. He had

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Speaker 2: something he had to take. I can't remember what it was,

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Speaker 2: and it made me sick at my stuff. I could.

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Speaker 2: They called my parents, They said, something wrong? Is something

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Speaker 2: wrong wrong? And I said, no, no, it's it's the

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Speaker 2: other it's your son, twit. You got to let him

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Speaker 2: off the hook. He's miserable, he won't he's worried to death.

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Speaker 2: The other kid running around having a ball, you know,

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Speaker 2: and he's probably not taken whatever he's supposed to take.

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Speaker 2: But so that's what was you know, that's what you're

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Speaker 2: living with when you said that, the hero kid. And

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Speaker 2: I read also that the firstborns will either stay very

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Speaker 2: close to the family or they leave and never come back.

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Speaker 2: And I fell in the latter category. Finally, I kind

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Speaker 2: of left came to the West Coast. Now. I had

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Speaker 2: a great relationship with my parents that till to my

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Speaker 2: dad's death. My mother is still alive, thank goodness. She's

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Speaker 2: eighty nine o ninety coming up and in this next spring.

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Speaker 2: But she and I had as again perspective from me

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Speaker 2: over the years and growing to know other people. And

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Speaker 2: I was I was reading, you know, because I get

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Speaker 2: your your your your online letter and the what is

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Speaker 2: it the Guest? The new book you're reading sounds great,

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Speaker 2: sounds fantastic, actually, because I'm a fan of, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: Pete Dexter and the writings you ever read Spooner by

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Speaker 2: Pete he wrote Paris Trout and Deadwood. He wrote the

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Speaker 2: book in the early nineties.

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Speaker 1: I have not read it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Deadwood is great. It's one of the most brilliant

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Speaker 2: Western descriptions of the Old West that I've ever come across.

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Speaker 2: They attempted it twice. The first one was Walter Hill

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Speaker 2: in the nineties with with Jeff Bridges, and they as

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Speaker 2: soon as I heard the title, I think, okay, they

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Speaker 2: missed the mark. They called it wild Bill and that's

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Speaker 2: one foot in old school. And then the early two

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Speaker 2: thousands they actually did the series. HBO did dead Wood

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Speaker 2: and now they got close, but it's still not the

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Speaker 2: same visceral kind of element that Pete Dexter captured in that.

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Speaker 2: And so my parents were because you're talking about the Guests,

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Speaker 2: and it was really interesting what you were saying about

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Speaker 2: that kind of personality and especially if you don't grow

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Speaker 2: up within that, you know, and I had. They were

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Speaker 2: lacking my parents, but they were never for a moment ever,

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Speaker 2: ever malicious to any one of the three of us.

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Speaker 2: And we knew every day they loved us. And I

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Speaker 2: think back about the lacking of whatever, you know, and

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Speaker 2: maybe not being held back a year, you know, and

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Speaker 2: I probably would have done, you know, I would have

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Speaker 2: been grown a little more. You know. What. What's the

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Speaker 2: is it in Outliers where he talks about or is

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Speaker 2: it uh uh? The other one that he wrote before.

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Speaker 1: Well, Outliers is what he talks about with the best soccer.

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Speaker 2: Players, after the hockey players, the hockey players, right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the hockey that's Outliers, because Tipping Point was the earlier

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Speaker 2: one that was about writ you know, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: but which deals with the hushpuppy issue. Right remember the

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Speaker 2: kids in South like in Lower East Side, the hipsters

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Speaker 2: couldn't afford cool shoes, des are buying hushpuppies and blue

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Speaker 2: hush puppies up.

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Speaker 1: But him talking about the Gladwell books in case people don't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Malcolm Gladwell, you know, brilliantly written stuff, and he

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Speaker 2: uh uh, I just forgot my point. What was it?

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Speaker 2: What was I referencing? I'm gladwell and outlined.

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Speaker 1: He was talking in Blink, which was the second book,

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Speaker 1: that if you were born all the great hockey players

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Speaker 1: right born in the first half of the year.

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Speaker 2: We take them because they're bigger, you know, at that

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Speaker 2: age you're physically bigger. So I was there and I

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Speaker 2: was just, you know, slight, skinny kid. I wasn't I

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Speaker 2: wasn't small, but I wasn't you know, like a guy

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Speaker 2: going to be six ' four, you know. I ended

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Speaker 2: up being roughly right six feet tall. But it was

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Speaker 2: like so with that age in answer to the question,

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Speaker 2: not succinctly answering it, but with all the tangents I

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Speaker 2: can muster. It was at the time I thought, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is what I'm supposed to do. You know, at

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Speaker 2: four years and three quarters, I went into you know,

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Speaker 2: the school and was always the youngest kid in the class,

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Speaker 2: you or one of the youngest. There were probably kids

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Speaker 2: born in November and December actually when I think back

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Speaker 2: to that time, but not many. And it was later

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Speaker 2: like in fifth grade there was this talent show that

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Speaker 2: was I mentioned that, and uh, I was a hey

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Speaker 2: crossing guard, a safety patrol kid, you know, like.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that was a great honor.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, they let you do it right, and that

394
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Speaker 2: was trying. I remember after that afternoon, because they held

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Speaker 2: it in the afternoon, I went down and played a monkey.

396
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Speaker 2: I played I'm not your stepping style, and my class

397
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Speaker 2: voted me to go down to the to the to

398
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Speaker 2: the variety show centre in the big auditorium combined on

399
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Speaker 2: toury in the junior high and elementary and do it.

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Speaker 2: And I remember the older kids, you know, kids that

401
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Speaker 2: were you know, fourteen, coming across the crosswalk and look

402
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Speaker 2: at me, kid, that wasn't bad in my little flag.

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Speaker 2: So that was the first handhold right of actually thinking.

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Speaker 1: It's funny you mention this because I always had a

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Speaker 1: history since I was a year younger than everybody. I

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Speaker 1: would get along with the older people when I was

407
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Speaker 1: in college whatever. It's sort of a similar thing. But well,

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Speaker 1: let's go through a few other things. Okay, you said

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Speaker 1: you can't get a good hat anymore. What's a good hat?

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Speaker 1: And what can you get?

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Speaker 2: Well, a high crown, this hot the old classic seventies

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Speaker 2: look you and I know the truck stop hat was

413
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Speaker 2: twenty feet tall, right, the ball cap running rolled and

414
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Speaker 2: you don't bend, you roll the brim if you if

415
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Speaker 2: you're a real hot rod Gaylord Perry Pitcher, you roll

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Speaker 2: that brim. And the same thing with you know guys

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Speaker 2: the old Air Force caps, they had a different kind

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Speaker 2: of crown on there. If the Marine Corps had the

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Speaker 2: that you know, high peaked anyway, crazy, I'm into observing. Oh,

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: Exactly what you're talking about with the crown, because that

422
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Speaker 1: was a big thing in Little League. I mean, you wouldn't,

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Speaker 1: like Babe Ruth the old schools how it is now

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Speaker 1: if they're even smaller now where it goes straight to

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Speaker 1: the head.

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Speaker 2: But what bothers me, which is horrible, it's not it's

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Speaker 2: not aesthetically very flattering. No.

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Speaker 1: But the other thing is in the old days they

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Speaker 1: were not adjustable. You got your own size and they

430
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: really fit well.

431
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 2: You had to fight. Yeah, you had to know your

432
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,719
Speaker 2: hats and get the size because it was wool all

433
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 2: the way around. The pro teams are still that, I

434
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 2: mean you still buy them sized. But the adjustable this

435
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 2: is dnhim. The one I got on it was a

436
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 2: great store on Melrose that had stocks of these blank

437
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 2: denim Classic trucker caps. They come and go every few years.

438
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 2: Even still, I've tried with my merch people. I said,

439
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: you know, I really want to get the Classic. I

440
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 2: don't know how many answers I And we measured at

441
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 2: one point with the height of the crown should be,

442
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: you know, for the label to be sticked to whatever

443
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 2: you know, patch you're putting on the front. Another when

444
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 2: I've got to Union seventy six, big old Union seventy

445
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 2: six badges, the last gas station job I had right

446
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 2: after i'd quit going to you know, college in Ohio state,

447
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 2: and right before in the months ensuing before I left

448
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 2: and came to California. But I was Union seventy six.

449
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 2: My dad owned a Texico for a time, so we'd

450
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 2: as a kid, you know, growing up with with that.

451
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: Okay, but I'm gonna switch to another thing before we

452
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: go forward. One of the other things you said earlier

453
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: was being cynical, as they say in class. Amplify that well.

454
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 2: I remember, I had a great I had what I

455
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 2: was I mentioned I touched on a second ago. When

456
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 2: I went to La City College, I was fascinated because

457
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 2: I had this professor O'Mara was his name, and I

458
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 2: realized halfway through it was a Western CIVI class that

459
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 2: the book on Egyptology we were using he had authored

460
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 2: at the University of Chicago. I thought, whoa this guy?

461
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 2: Because he could teach at La City, I think it

462
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 2: was five years and they could pick up another state

463
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 2: of California. At the time, this is in the early eighties,

464
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 2: they could pick up a full retirement, a second full retirement,

465
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: and so I had that. And I had a professor

466
00:25:54,080 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: from USC, an English lit professor or creative writing professor

467
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 2: who had been a publisher and again was retired out

468
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 2: of USC as a full PhD and was picking up

469
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 2: a second retirement, right, And so the you know, at

470
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 2: close range, you know, with twenty kids in the class,

471
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 2: and they said to me. The one said, well, you know,

472
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 2: this philosophy professor I had it was also a full

473
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 2: professor from USC that was doing double duty. He said,

474
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 2: you know, the difference in a skeptic and a cynic

475
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 2: is that the cynic has been a true believer that's

476
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 2: become disillusioned. Right. I always held that I understood as

477
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: soon as I said, yeah, that's one of the Yeah,

478
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: you know, and so when I said cynical, I was

479
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 2: watching the older part of that generation of boomers, you

480
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 2: still probably believed. See I'm the kids sitting there watching

481
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 2: you and the older parts of the boomers. Right, I'm

482
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 2: the tail in the last years of the boomers, watching

483
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: it go to shit, right, watching the Summer of Love

484
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 2: become ultamont.

485
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: You know, you know, I understand your point. It's well taken,

486
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: and there are certainly people older than me. The line

487
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: of demarcation that's so important to me was I was

488
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: fully conscious when the Beatles hit. But I always I

489
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: always use the analogy. I have a beach analogy, okay,

490
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: where the wave comes in, the wave goes out, and

491
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: there are certain people from that era who are still

492
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: on the beach. They don't go back out. So you know,

493
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 1: in the fifties wave came in, we got Mayner, g Krebs,

494
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera, wave went out, people like Alan

495
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: Ginsburg whatever, they were left on the beach. For those

496
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,959
Speaker 1: of us who lived had the sixties values, okay, and

497
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: then Reagan legitimized greed. It's like our values don't square

498
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,959
Speaker 1: with everybody else. It's like the same thing. You know,

499
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 1: even in music, you know, the first thing people want

500
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 1: to know is how do they get paid and how

501
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: do they extend it. Not that the people in the

502
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: old ages weren't interested in getting paid, it just wasn't

503
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: the first question. So I believe, you know, it's hard

504
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: for me. This is going to be controversial.

505
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: You know.

506
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: Even in the Joni Mitchell album Blue California, she says

507
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: she's going to kiss a sunset pig. Okay, pig is

508
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: a cop. Subsequent to nine to eleven, the firemen and

509
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: when the policemen they're venerated, whereas in the sixties you

510
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: have to beware. And it's funny because a cop has

511
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: never done anything good for me. Cop has done a

512
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: lot of bad shit for me, but never anything good.

513
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 2: Really, that's fascinating. I mean, and I I've had Look,

514
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: I've had experiences with cops that are not great. But

515
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 2: I didn't What I was going to say was I

516
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: I felt like, I guess the disillusionment by the early seventies,

517
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: right when Vietnam finally.

518
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: But I have to tell you we all felt that.

519
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's what I understand.

520
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: The concept of being ripped off because they talked about

521
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: that a lot with Generation X.

522
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: You got to do it.

523
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: And we're in the trails and we're picking up the

524
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: the ship from the elephant.

525
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 2: In the circus, and it was one of the It was.

526
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: Very very strange to have Ken state in May and

527
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: then everything switched. It was back to the land and

528
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: all the protests they ended after that.

529
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 2: It was very weird. Well, Kent States were seventy yeah,

530
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 2: so but by I remember I was sitting in I

531
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 2: was a junior year because I had to go down

532
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: and I had to go down and take the physical

533
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: for the draft or anything. Even though they had stopped

534
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 2: right the active draft by the time I, you know,

535
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 2: got out when I turned eighteen, uh in late seventy four,

536
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 2: I still had to get on that bus and drive

537
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 2: down there, you know, ride a bus full of dudes

538
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 2: down with an army sergeant hollering at you and getting

539
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 2: the line. That's why I got up there and went

540
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 2: now neck one yello him and he's calling out and

541
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 2: I'm standing in my own word and he's measuring my

542
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 2: Hair's a five ft eleven and three quarter inches. I said,

543
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 2: you can't just give me to the other quarter inch

544
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 2: get on.

545
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: Well. The great thing is you remember the movie stripes

546
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: with barn Oates is Sergeant Holka. And what I loved

547
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,239
Speaker 1: about was, you know, they're sitting there and gon't think

548
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: he's taking a little too seriously and that irreverence really

549
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: is the sixties, That's what I love.

550
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. And by the seventies, I mean they were letting guys.

551
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 2: It was, it was. There was cynicism even in the military.

552
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 2: You know, it was like, what with the hell was

553
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 2: that ten years? And why you know what I mean

554
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 2: if you talk to guys and I know you have

555
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 2: that that came out of it, They're like, what a waste,

556
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 2: you know? And how many young lives, how many young

557
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: I used to look in Columbus there was a little newspaper,

558
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: a local thing called the Londen News. At the height

559
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: of that warrant. I remember the pictures of those kids,

560
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 2: some of them with acne, acne still their photo from

561
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 2: boot camp, right with their dressed uniform, and it would

562
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 2: run and they weren't coming back. They would run them

563
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: every week, the kids that were gone. And I really

564
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: sad when I think back at those faces, those young kids.

565
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: You know, I remember being in high school remember being

566
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: in high school and over the intercom for the first

567
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: time they announced all the school that a student, you know,

568
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: a previous student had died in Vietnam.

569
00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, very sobering, and it's a an experience that,

570
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: like you've said, watched you write, I mean, we're very

571
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 2: nine on one to now is not the same because

572
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 2: it's still an all volunteer force. It's not.

573
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: There's okay, but growing up forgetting that Vietnam, you know,

574
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: bad war, et cetera, et cetera. But you're growing up

575
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: and you say, shit, I can't see ever fighting for

576
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: my country, And now I can see fighting against people

577
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: who want to end democracy, of which there's a good

578
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: number in America. I hear from them every day.

579
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean there's an argument to me, mate.

580
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 2: I was a few years ago Pire's Morgan's show on CNN.

581
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: I did a thing about and he wanted to interview

582
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: me and talk about the Second Amendment, and I said, look,

583
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 2: it's not about hunting, it's not about you know, sporting rifle.

584
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: There's a reason I believe that it was written in

585
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 2: there that way, and it was to prevent tyranny, and

586
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 2: it was to rise up against the tyranny of a government,

587
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: the tyranny of someone taking over the government, you know,

588
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: the military, you know, performing a coup whatever. So I

589
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 2: didn't I was I guess I was hopeful, and hopefully

590
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: I was more of a skeptic than a cynic, because

591
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 2: a cynic it's hard to it's hard to go on,

592
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: you know, cynicism, it's hard to kind of overcome it.

593
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: But I remained skeptical and remain skeptical. You know of

594
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: a lot of people power, right power, and those who

595
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 2: get it and the wrong people getting it and who knows,

596
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: you know, it's a coin toss.

597
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: Well, it's skeptical. You do you talk about that my father,

598
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,959
Speaker 1: you know, you'd hear the old what's the real story here?

599
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: It's like when you see somebody driving down the street

600
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: in the Bentley and they don't have a job, Well

601
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: they either have a rich father or something. Especially in

602
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: LA when somebody you can't accept it if face value,

603
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: when it's incredibly go oh wait a second. There's a

604
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,959
Speaker 1: real story here. Part of being a skeptic, and.

605
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: A lot of them are leased in lamed.

606
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 1: As I say there, there are a lot of people

607
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: live in that way. But there's all kinds of things.

608
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, HBO Max has now been turned

609
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: into max Max and that makes no sense to me.

610
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 2: And then I can't remember who owns it, but.

611
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's more of discovery and it's run

612
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: by this guy Zoslav. And I was listening to this guy,

613
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: Scot Galloway, big business guy says, no brand person, no

614
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: branding person in the world would say to change it.

615
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: This guybo Yeah, that's a guy brand This guy changed

616
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: it because if he wins, he wants all the credits credit.

617
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: And then I was listening to this podcast with his

618
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: economist from Columbia talking about what he said to the

619
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: White House, et cetera. They won't listen. It's a dick thing.

620
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,959
Speaker 1: It's like I guess I was brought up my parents

621
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: always telling me, you're not the guy. There's always somebody

622
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,479
Speaker 1: who knows better, who knows more. Find them, but you're

623
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: not the guy.

624
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 2: And then you don't don't think you're the smartest guy

625
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 2: in the room. I don't. Yeah, I go in, I think, look,

626
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 2: i'm I'm I'm pretty good. I'm quick. I'm quick. I'm

627
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 2: not fast, but i'm pretty quick. And uh that I

628
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 2: want to have smarter people than me, you know, informing me.

629
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 2: That's what I hope always, and somebody smartest me.

630
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 1: You know, as one gets older and time starts to

631
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: run out of the hour glass, it's very weird because Okay,

632
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: when you go back when you're still in school, there's

633
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: a big organization. They're into what you're doing. Are you

634
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 1: cutting class, you're getting good grades, whatever. Then you graduate,

635
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: they don't give a fuck. Do whatever you want, you know, living,

636
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: gutter whatever. And it's funny that there's that side. So

637
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: you're ultimately forced to find your own way with no structure.

638
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: And it's weird because you have you outgrow people, primarily

639
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: because not that they're stupid, but the choices they made.

640
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: They don't want to continue to go down the path.

641
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: And it's very weird because then you're hanging with them.

642
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: It's not as satisfying as it used to be, and

643
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: you have to find new people.

644
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I've over the year has been asked well

645
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: how do I how do I do this? Or that?

646
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: You know musicians that are talented maybe, and they go, well, yeah,

647
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 2: I said, well, first of all, you got to get

648
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 2: out of where you are. You know, it's like you're

649
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 2: in You're you're in Indianapolis, or you're in Des Moines,

650
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 2: you're in Omaha. Okay, cool, But you got to go

651
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 2: to New York, go to La or at least Nashville

652
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 2: so you can compete, you know, and put it in

653
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 2: front of people, right, and and it surprises me, especially

654
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 2: as a point of age. You know, you've you've written

655
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 2: about this. I've read where you where there are those

656
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 2: that do and those that don't and those that don't.

657
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 2: You could tell over and over again. Are you when

658
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 2: you're beach analogy? Are you saying you're one of those

659
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 2: one of those persons left on the beach you feel beat? Right? Yeah?

660
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 2: And you didn't go back out with the current or

661
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 2: the wave, right, yeah, I probably went out with the wave.

662
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 2: And maybe that's what you know it's like because I

663
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 2: understand the analogy, I get it.

664
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, let's just say you bring up you know,

665
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: you go on tour. A lot of places you tour

666
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: are not the top line of the metropolis. All right,

667
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 1: if you are just by being there the brief period

668
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: of time, is it just another gig or do you

669
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:56,280
Speaker 1: learn something?

670
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 2: You learned something insight, you learn something every night. Everywhere

671
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 2: you go, I think, I mean, I'm just curious enough

672
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 2: that I look for what there is. I'm fascinated with

673
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: people in places. The thing I never had to study,

674
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: and I probably would have made it bout I was

675
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: going to major in philosophy, but as I look back

676
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 2: in history, history and geography, I never had to open

677
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: a book. It seemed like it just was in me

678
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: from some previous lifetime. I knew the globe, and that

679
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 2: was what I was saying when I would cut class,

680
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 2: I would, you know, actually cut classes. I could get

681
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: away with it and sit in the library and read.

682
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 2: Because my dad, God bless him, he tried to. I

683
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: was raised very devoutly in Church of Christ, which they

684
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 2: founded Pepperdine University out here. But the Church of Christ

685
00:38:54,080 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 2: is a non denominational, you know, Christian church, and in Columbus,

686
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 2: the fascinating thing for me, again in retrospect, was that

687
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: it was this major university hub, right, so we had

688
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 2: this influx of guys that were teaching my Sunday school

689
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: classes that were doing I know it now because I

690
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:22,439
Speaker 2: remember doing their PhDs, one of them in high level

691
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: mathematics at Ohio State. Another one we had a friend

692
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 2: of our family, became very close to my dad because

693
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: they both shared a love for cars, and he loved

694
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: he had a little old Porsche Sea the C model

695
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: looked like the bathtub, you know, because he was finishing

696
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 2: his residency there in antestesiology. So I got exposed, you know,

697
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 2: this cross polarization of culture. My dad was a ten

698
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 2: year career Army sergeant. All I came, I was going

699
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 2: to stay do the twenty you know, and because of me,

700
00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 2: he used to look at you, you know, boy, he

701
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 2: lamented it until the end of his life. Almost I

702
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 2: have been I'd have been retard. But now if I'd

703
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 2: have stayed in but you don't because he couldn't. He

704
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 2: was last posted in Korea posts the truth and people

705
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 2: don't realize the Korean War, remember Korean conflict, John Prime,

706
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 2: Hello in There is one of the great songs that

707
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 2: deals with that. And you know the couple the old

708
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 2: man on the bench and Hello in there and the

709
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 2: Korean War. We don't know what for? You know, that

710
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 2: lyric was so poignant and great. Anyway, it was post

711
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 2: the war, the active war, and it's still to this day.

712
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 2: I guess just a truce, you know, that's why it's

713
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 2: such a you.

714
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: Know, well I read just to you know, put this

715
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: in and you hear about how is it going to

716
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: end between Ukraine and Russia and they say it might

717
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: be like Korea and that there was never a treaty.

718
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: Is the truth.

719
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: They just kind of decided to stop fighting.

720
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 2: Stop and just became a truth. That that's what had

721
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: DMZ is real. It's like right, it's like they're looking

722
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 2: at each other still with loaded guns. So anyway, he

723
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 2: was there and couldn't take us. He left. My mom

724
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: was just pregnant with me, and he spent the time

725
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 2: and he didn't meet me till I was nine months old,

726
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: and that it was an interesting dynamic between the two.

727
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: But he looked he said, you know, i'd have been retard.

728
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 2: But I said, you'd have been in Vietnam. He said, well,

729
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: you know maybe, but he ran a motor pool and

730
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 2: he ran tank transporters, which you know, but those old

731
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,439
Speaker 2: sergeants did end up over there. And then I said,

732
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 2: you know, the first thing I ever wrote, funny enough

733
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 2: because I was watching all the news reel footage. I

734
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 2: was eight years old and I had my first real guitar. Well,

735
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 2: he had one he brought home. There's a shot of

736
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 2: me in my box. Said that it's a k F hole,

737
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: remember the old F hole guitars a k that he

738
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 2: he couldn't play. He brought more instruments on the never

739
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 2: could play a lick. He brought one from Westinghouse when

740
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 2: he worked out there after he lost his gas station.

741
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 2: That's another whole topic that they give these guys gas

742
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: stations or great mechanics that have no business acumen whatsoever.

743
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 2: And the oil companies know that, by the way, I've

744
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 2: read analysis of that. They knew because they owned the

745
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 2: real estate. So they would just flip every three or

746
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 2: four years another, give another mechanic, you know, the station lab,

747
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 2: try and run it. And but he brought a bass.

748
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 2: He brought a bull horn Dan electro bass home. And

749
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 2: so I bought this from this guy out at the plant.

750
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 2: He said, he's young guy. He just needed money. He said,

751
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 2: I figured you could play an electric guitar. I said, well, dad,

752
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 2: that's not a guitar. I don't know how to play

753
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 2: a bass a base. And when I thought about we

754
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 2: in my it was black. It's a classic. It's probably

755
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: worth multiple thousand dollars now. I think about that bullhorn,

756
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 2: Dan electro bass and we painted at baby blue. For

757
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 2: some reason, we sprayed my brother and I, you know neither.

758
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 2: You know, I fooled around with it, but I couldn't play.

759
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 2: But I had a real acoustic guitar. He had this

760
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 2: k that I had when I was about two years old.

761
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 2: Three there photos me with it, just bellering and trying

762
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 2: to hold my granny hole in the top and the headstock,

763
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 2: and I tripped and fell and crushed that. So then

764
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 2: I had a couple of toy things that you know,

765
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 2: between then and at eight years old. And this goes

766
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: to who he was. And my parents saw the earth

767
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 2: people that worked really hard, and he had a bit

768
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: of walder Midie and he was always dreaming. And this

769
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 2: was back to what I was talking about with the

770
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 2: people that he knew, the cross pollinization of culture because

771
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 2: they knew he was a great mechanic. And some of

772
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 2: these guys like cars and they had that in common,

773
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: but nothing else with him. And even him trying to

774
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 2: learn to golf was hilarious. I caddied for him till

775
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 2: the last time I laughing, so I collapsed onto the course.

776
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: And anyway, but I wrote this song on that guitar

777
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 2: because the newsreels were coming at dinner. You'd hear, you know,

778
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 2: the Marines have gone into landed at Danang, Remember that

779
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 2: they did. They did a landing craft landing if you remember,

780
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:29,439
Speaker 2: it was like a big staged you know, bit sort

781
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 2: of all of World War two. And that must have

782
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 2: prompted me because I was starting to see, you know,

783
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 2: in that first couple of years of the active war.

784
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 2: You know, it's would have been what eight, I was

785
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 2: sixty four, eight years old, but.

786
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: Sixty four was really before that. I was just advisory.

787
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, when went in when of the Marines?

788
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: Actually sixty five. But anyway, I wrote this song called

789
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 2: how Far Is Heaven? And my parents didn't quite they

790
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: didn't know it was a hillbilly thing. It was half finished.

791
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 2: That talks about it over the years a few times

792
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 2: in interviews, but it went uh and it started with

793
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 2: this hillbilly waltz ching ing, which is not all. I

794
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 2: could plague two couple of chords. I don't play much

795
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 2: more than that now, but I was getting interested. My

796
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 2: daddy got killed over in Vietnam. Then there's just a

797
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 2: few things that I don't understand boom boom boom. How

798
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 2: far is heaven? When can I go? I love my daddy, Lord,

799
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,399
Speaker 2: I miss him. So so anyway, they heard me doing

800
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 2: something they hadn't. I came downstairs, said what are you playing?

801
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 2: And so I played it for him. My dad was

802
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 2: flabbergast and almost offended. He said, whoa what in the

803
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,760
Speaker 2: world's he writing? Like I'm dead? My mother? He didn't

804
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 2: like he's you know, poetic license. He didn't quite great,

805
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 2: didn't grasp it. It's like you want me dead? You

806
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 2: think he's looking at my mom. It's like he was hilarious.

807
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 2: Actually a tough dude, tough guy, but a soft heart.

808
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,760
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, A couple of things. So with your father,

809
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: this was really you're a little young, as you said,

810
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 1: but anti Vietnam and pro Vietnam was. I don't want

811
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 1: to equate it with abortion because there are two different things,

812
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,919
Speaker 1: but the vociferousness that people held their positions. Was your

813
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: father always pro Vietnam? Or did he ever start to crump?

814
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: I think he well, no, I think by the end

815
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 2: he like a lot of xgis were like watching that

816
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 2: from the distance and going, I don't know what in

817
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 2: the hell there you know, yeah, he became disillusioned. But again, uh,

818
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 2: there was. It's not as clear as black and white

819
00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 2: if your memory, if you really in line is the moments, Bob,

820
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 2: there was, especially where we were, you know, the Ohio Valley.

821
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 2: You've moved out into Greater Appalachian, right, you're out there

822
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: in that region, and it's I mean I came from.

823
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 2: He was in a union. He was a shop steward

824
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 2: in the union. But he became disillusioned because you know,

825
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: the power of unions becomes correct, they become corrupt, right,

826
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 2: whether it's Hoffer or whatever. I forget what. He was

827
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 2: a shop steward and one day he came home with

828
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 2: his eye cut open because a guy on the line,

829
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 2: because there was a guy that kept showing up drunk

830
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 2: right to work at a plant, big factory, you know,

831
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 2: and they're all on the line, and this guy was

832
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 2: going to get somebody killed. He said, this guy's drunk

833
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: and in not showing up, and it was his job

834
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 2: to go defend him to the teeth, right, you know,

835
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 2: and say he can be you know, he's absent now

836
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 2: he you know, he's sick. He was sick. He was sick,

837
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 2: and finally he said, and this is the old army sergeant.

838
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 2: I can't do that anymore. You know, I can't cover

839
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: for this clown, do you know what I mean? The

840
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: Union was saying, hey, dude, you're covering for him. You're

841
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,879
Speaker 2: the shop steward. You're covering. And he said, not doing it.

842
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 2: And the guy down the line let a flywheel part

843
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 2: of a refrigerator like it was a it was a

844
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 2: Westinghouse plant, right, They built refrigerators to let that go

845
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 2: down the line the conveyor, but and it bounced, ricocheted

846
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 2: and caught the guy next to him his hand and

847
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:39,959
Speaker 2: cut him and then hit my dad in the eye,

848
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 2: you know, came up and cut him and it could

849
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 2: have killed either of them. You know, it could have

850
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 2: killed him. That was the warning shot right from you know,

851
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: the Union. It's like, you know, so I saw that

852
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: at close range. I watched him come home with stitches

853
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 2: in that eye and what happened. And he said, well,

854
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: this guy didn't like that. I I'm fed up. I'm

855
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 2: not covering. You know, the Warren Oates moment. Remember the

856
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: scene in the barracks where the guy jumps up and goes,

857
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,479
Speaker 2: it's his name, And they introduced themselves, and he says,

858
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 2: I'm Francis, So any of you guys, he said the

859
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 2: pejority of the interview mother, call me Francis. I'll kill you.

860
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 2: He goes, and you touch my ship, I'll kill you.

861
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 2: And he goes through a laundry list up. Anybody does

862
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 2: this and that, I'll kill you. And Warren Oates is

863
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 2: sitting there chewing on the cigar. He just sit down

864
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 2: and stow it. Francis were the top thing on the list.

865
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 2: Don't call me Francis. Sit down and stow it. Francis.

866
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 2: Which is that's those guys right that run the army.

867
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: They run the military. You know, anybody's smart, that's been

868
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 2: the officers will tell you the thing that'll get you saved.

869
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 2: Listen to your NCLs. Right. Let the old sergeant lead.

870
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 2: And that's who he was. You know. He had have

871
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 2: a career in and didn't want to get out. But

872
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: he couldn't take us. His heart wouldn't let him go back.

873
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 2: And his captain, I mean, he said, wow, my captain

874
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 2: told me just go home. Spent a few months as

875
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 2: you realist. I'll give you your full stripes back and

876
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 2: put a stripe on it and come back to me,

877
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 2: and he never did. But he never quit. And it

878
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 2: wasn't about you know, the raw, raw end of it.

879
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 2: It was about the function of the hierarchy of the military.

880
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 2: I think you know what I mean, the organization. Do

881
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 2: you know it made sense to him? Does that mean

882
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 2: you know? And and great, great mechanical aptitude, So order

883
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 2: probably made sense to him in that way. I was

884
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 2: fascinated with it. I would say, I could tell you

885
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 2: the crazy service in terms of rank and insignia is

886
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 2: the Navy. The Navy's and I have a whole theory

887
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:50,720
Speaker 2: about the Navy that that the most uh suspect officer

888
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 2: corps might be the Navy, because I my theory is,

889
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 2: and this is my own barnyard theory is, you know,

890
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 2: from teenage years on, was that there there will He

891
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 2: didn't necessarily it can be compromised a little bit. There

892
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:06,800
Speaker 2: was ever a real coop in the United States. I

893
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 2: think it might come from Naval intelligence rather than any

894
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,399
Speaker 2: of the branch because they're so removed when you think

895
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 2: about their duty post from the country, especially in peacetime.

896
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 2: Right they're on the high seas, They're all over the world,

897
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 2: So there's a disconnect maybe possibly anyway, whatever, that's a

898
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 2: whole like I said, no.

899
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: No, okay, but tell me about him owning the Texico station.

900
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 2: Well, he had that. He was great. And then his

901
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 2: younger brother. He was one of three boys. He had

902
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 2: an older brother and he was in the middle, and

903
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 2: they had this younger brother and the two of them.

904
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 2: He owned it and this brother, and it's just managing

905
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 2: the money of it and all that stuff and trying

906
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 2: to make it go. And that's back in the day

907
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:52,799
Speaker 2: when there were four corners. There were four stations, like

908
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 2: there was a Saint Clair or Chevron, and my mom's

909
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 2: cousins who had come out of Kentucky, the Christian Brothers,

910
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 2: he owned a Sinclair I think. Then one night I

911
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:05,760
Speaker 2: remember all the stories, but he walked out and flicked

912
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 2: a cigarette or a cigar. But as the tanker was loading,

913
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 2: you know, fueled into the station and went it skipped

914
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 2: across the lot and exploded. His whole station burned to

915
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 2: the ground. That's the classic move. My dad didn't do

916
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:28,439
Speaker 2: anything that because again he was our army sergeant, kind

917
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 2: of smart and and seizoned and he was like, what

918
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 2: you what the hell are you thinking? There? Flicker a cigarette,

919
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 2: a cigar butt across the lot. When that guy's out,

920
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,879
Speaker 2: the fumes are gonna And that's what happened. The fumes

921
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 2: caught just one spark and it was like the whole

922
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 2: corner went up. And they're lucky that the four could.

923
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, and and and uh because you were

924
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 2: raised in Connecticut, right, yeah, yeah.

925
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: Oh I remember the four gas the four corners. Now

926
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 1: it's like you have to think about buying gas. Oh yeah,

927
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: we're the never mind the price wars and the glasses

928
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: and all that.

929
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 2: And Sonoko he had a Texico and he had it

930
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 2: for about three and a half years. He had a

931
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 2: red pickup truck with that big star on the side,

932
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 2: and it was fascinating. We got our first real dog

933
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 2: from there. A guy didn't want to gave us his boy.

934
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 2: He had a boxer that he ended up in that

935
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 2: gas station. Uh, he had him there for a week

936
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 2: or two, and he brought him home, Duke and that

937
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 2: boxer that we ended up inheriting from from the gas station,

938
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 2: and uh uh, you know, he he just it ended

939
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 2: up financially failing. I was too young to know the

940
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 2: machinations of it, you know, But he just couldn't make

941
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 2: the business side of it go and makes sense. And

942
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 2: they were being charged rent by Texico and sometimes the

943
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 2: was set up on the margins when I look, you know,

944
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 2: I know now that and they expected a certain amount

945
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 2: of failure and they would just replace you with the

946
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 2: next guy. They didn't. Texao didn't lose the corner. You know,

947
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 2: they owned it and you were paying them.

948
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: You know, there's this there's the same scam now in

949
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: lawn haul truck drivers that they basically leash you the

950
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: car to own and the guys can't keep the payments

951
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: and they just you know, they charged a lot to

952
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: get in and they just pass it on to the.

953
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 2: Net next guy. And it's just a shame, but anybody.

954
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 2: So that was that world. And then he went on,

955
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 2: like I said, and always attempted to better himself. And

956
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 2: you know, it was always looking to like he went

957
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 2: to night school to try and you know, and just

958
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 2: wasn't hadn't been prepared for that, you know, because he

959
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 2: ended up dropping out of high school. He was sixteen

960
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 2: when he enlisted. He was under age when he went

961
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 2: in the army. It was post war, the Treatsy Forces.

962
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,320
Speaker 2: Because Colonel David Hackwort was a great book called About Face.

963
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 2: He was a full bird colonel, highly decorated in Vietnam,

964
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 2: and he went on what was you know, the Sunday

965
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 2: morn warning should meet the press from Vietnam and railed

966
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 2: against the conduct of the military and you know, the

967
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 2: politicians running the war in I don't know what I

968
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 2: think nineteen seventy or seventy one whatever, in saying, this

969
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 2: is getting good kids killed for no reason. And he

970
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 2: immediately was you know, I don't know if he quit

971
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 2: the military at that point, but he was dumped. But

972
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 2: I don't know why I was talking about hack course book,

973
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 2: but about Face, and to you know, he was trying

974
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 2: attempting to oh, I know what it was. He went

975
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 2: in the army under age, like hack Corts had done

976
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,279
Speaker 2: post World War Two. He jumped in as a way out.

977
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 2: You know. My granddad been a railroader, right, you know,

978
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 2: and was with Penn Central at that point. My great

979
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 2: grandfather had been a cabinet maker for the railroad. Came

980
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 2: out of he was a baby and came out of

981
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,280
Speaker 2: the Shenandoah Valley and a constagle wagon across the Ohio,

982
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 2: you know, and in the Ohio Valley and that's where

983
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 2: they landed in southern Ohio across from Kentucky. And then

984
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 2: my mom's side of the families steeped in southeasternmost Kentucky

985
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 2: in deep western Virginia, you know, goes back. We don't

986
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 2: know how many generations. I never really explored enough of

987
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 2: it on that side, the Tibbs family, Ratlets, Gillhams, it's

988
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 2: old mountain names. But so he had this railroad background,

989
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 2: but he wanted to escape it, and I think I

990
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 2: got a bit of his optimism, you know. He you

991
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 2: know that he was always hoping for a better life,

992
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 2: you know, and not always successful at trying to attempt

993
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 2: the next move, you know. And ironically he ended up

994
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 2: living the last thirty years of his life in Kentucky,

995
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 2: in Louisville actually, but he became a state He worked

996
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:00,439
Speaker 2: for the State of Ohio at one point he became

997
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 2: a construction inspector for the city and was really good

998
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 2: at that. He had great, you know, mechanical aptitude. And

999
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 2: then ended up working for the State of Kentucky his

1000
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 2: last you know, I don't know, fifteen years of his

1001
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 2: working life and retired from there. But I think back

1002
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 2: he and I were just so different, as you know, personalities.

1003
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 2: My brother and he were more in common with each

1004
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 2: other any think, and locked horns a lot more than men.

1005
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 2: I would look at my my younger brothers. You're the

1006
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 2: rebel without the cause, Bob and the middle kid. Right, yeah, absolutely,

1007
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 2: we'll get to that adventure.

1008
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: But you know, we've talked about this before, but let's

1009
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: go back here where. Yes, you basically grew up in Ohio,

1010
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: but it's like Kentucky. It's the epicenter of the opioid

1011
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: culture and bad things. So for those of us who

1012
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 1: did not grow up there, you know, we hear about

1013
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: coal miner's daughter, we hear about the holler. You know,

1014
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: what exactly what was it like in your father's error?

1015
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 2: What was it like for you?

1016
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 1: What is it like?

1017
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 2: Now? Well, there they were, you know, and my mother,

1018
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 2: who I regret for her that she didn't go on

1019
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 2: to college because she was an exceptional student and great

1020
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 2: with English grammar. She would correct us, you know, and

1021
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 2: a stickler for it. And my granny who barely you know,

1022
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 2: maybe had an I don't know, in eighth grade, the

1023
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 2: classic eighth grade education in the Mountain people, one of

1024
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 2: the ironic moments for me was sitting in that holler.

1025
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 2: It was dirt road. It was basically hollers. Rory Kennedy, huh.

1026
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 2: She's one of Bobby's daughters, all right, Bobby Kennedy junior

1027
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 2: domic Bobby Kennedy daughters is a documentary filmmaker. And she

1028
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 2: did a piece a few years ago. It was a

1029
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 2: great piece called American Hot. I only took exception with

1030
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 2: her calling it a hollow instead of because in the

1031
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 2: New England area where you would call it a hollow, right,

1032
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 2: sleepy hollow or well, that's what they are. It's a hollow.

1033
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 2: And it usually was a creek bed coming off the

1034
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 2: mountain top, you know, in southeast Kentucky in that case,

1035
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 2: or in West Virginia or wherever in the mountainous areas,

1036
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 2: and this it was a single car wide dirt road

1037
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 2: up that hollow to get to the top of them,

1038
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 2: you know, from down at the bottom, and a creek

1039
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 2: would run alongside of it out of there. So I was,

1040
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 2: and that was only it was ninety miles you know,

1041
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 2: to Kentucky from as we would go home, they call

1042
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 2: it going home. That was what I my mother would

1043
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 2: We're gonna go home this weekend and would take I

1044
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 2: used to say we're tail like babies, because you would

1045
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 2: see a line on Route twenty three out of Columbus.

1046
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 2: You would get back onto Route twenty three and beheaded

1047
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 2: south to Portsmouth, hind and go over to Ironan and

1048
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:04,919
Speaker 2: cross into Ashland, which is where the Juds are from.

1049
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 2: And then Ricky Skaggs is another few miles in Louisa.

1050
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 2: Down that road, that same highway, Loretta Lynn, Crystal Gale

1051
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 2: or another county down. I'm on a sign that you

1052
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 2: get to Pike County and that's where I was born.

1053
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 2: Pipe Well, Patty Lovelas is a string of us that

1054
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 2: came off that highway and that one section of Kentucky,

1055
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 2: that state that went on. And then if you go

1056
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 2: just across from Pike County where it borders it borders Virginia,

1057
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 2: and you go across Ford Grundy and up and through

1058
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 2: there's Clinch Mountain, which is where Ralph and Carter Stanley

1059
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 2: came out up in the Carter family. Right ap card

1060
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 2: the beginning of modern country music. Really right, they go

1061
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 2: down and do the Bristol Sessions. Two acts came out

1062
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 2: of the Bristol Sessions. Jimmy Rogers, right, and which was

1063
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 2: it Ralph Pierre that went down with the recording. I

1064
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 2: can't remember who went down and did the Bristol sessions

1065
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 2: down anyway, And Jimmy Rodgers and the Carter family and

1066
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 2: those of the two that blew up and made country

1067
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 2: music in nineteen twenty seven commercial And so I'm born there, right,

1068
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 2: and the escape route across the river lands me, you know,

1069
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 2: up there in Columbus, And so my perspective was, and

1070
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 2: I would get so carsick when we'd drive down through

1071
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 2: therecause you follow Coultro as a two lane road, two

1072
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:32,919
Speaker 2: lane highway it was. It was a US Route Route

1073
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 2: twenty three, and to this day it's widening and stuff,

1074
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 2: but there's no interstate running over there. They were supposed

1075
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 2: to put a new sixty six out of d C.

1076
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 2: It's never been finished. It was going to go through there.

1077
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 2: But and on one of the people that blocked you know,

1078
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 2: a US road going down through there was I believe

1079
01:01:56,200 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 2: Johnson post Lincoln, And it's weird. That's a weird presidency

1080
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 2: and of itself and his his you know, kind of

1081
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 2: hostility towards the South, you know at that point because

1082
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 2: he's from Tennessee the form and vice president, right, I

1083
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 2: mean Johnson who became the president and was impeached, you know,

1084
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 2: prior to Trump, the only I think sitting president impeached. Anyway,

1085
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 2: that culture was there up and down that highway, and

1086
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 2: I used to say that on Friday nights and tail

1087
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 2: a babies, you'd see all these license plates from Michigan

1088
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 2: and Ohio headed south. They were going home from Detroit,

1089
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 2: tons of these cars because they could make it. You know,

1090
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 2: at that point it was it was mostly you could

1091
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 2: do interstate coming down to Columbia. You could jump on

1092
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 2: that US route and take it across into Kentucky. But

1093
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 2: you could be down there from Columbus and you'd be

1094
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 2: at the river an hour and a half and then

1095
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 2: you'd start the hard part of it and there'd be another,

1096
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 2: you know, three hours to get you know, to the

1097
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 2: house in the holler. I wrote about it reading writing

1098
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:12,920
Speaker 2: Route twenty three. You know about the grandparents staying up

1099
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 2: to see those grand babies. You know, they would bring

1100
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 2: us in and then I would spend time down there

1101
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 2: with them in the summers and you just stay there.

1102
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 2: My you know, mother would leave me and you know

1103
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 2: I'd be with them, and they were old mountain people.

1104
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 2: My granddad was born in nineteen oh one, and it's

1105
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 2: you know, it's you know, kind of the Sergeant York

1106
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 2: you know version of that stuff, you know. But I

1107
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 2: learned to shoot a shotgun with him. You know. It's

1108
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 2: all that was, you know, part and parcel of what

1109
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 2: I was living. And they'd had a tougher road to hoe,

1110
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 2: you know than me. I was lucky, you know. They

1111
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 2: they escaped me, you know, so I got to see

1112
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 2: the world and then have it come into the living

1113
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 2: room and color at some point, you know, and.

1114
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 1: Have Okay, So with this late day, what is it

1115
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 1: that people in the blue areas in the metropolis don't

1116
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 1: get about people from that era area?

1117
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 2: Well that there number one I think that I can

1118
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 2: talk about holler that they're suspicious. One of the things

1119
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 2: that stayed with me from Gladwell's book Outliers was his

1120
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 2: discussion about not being able to keep a circuit judge

1121
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 2: as late as the eighties, remember in Southeast Kentucky and

1122
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 2: Harlan and he was talking about Harlan County specifically. But

1123
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 2: if you remember that part of the book, he said

1124
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 2: they were going in people would walk in with a

1125
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 2: gun into court and threaten the judge. And they knew

1126
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 2: him minute. I had a great oral surgeon out here

1127
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 2: that had done his his his.

1128
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 1: I think this is hillbilly elogy you're referring to.

1129
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 2: Right, No, no, no, it's Gladwell's book Outliers. He talks

1130
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 2: about Harlan County, Kentucky, and how the feuding culture it

1131
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 2: crops up around the world in places that are not

1132
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 2: hospitable to agrarian culture, that are herd cultures, like if

1133
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 2: you remember the Highlands of Scotland, of the Mediterranean Crescent

1134
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 2: right the menu, where they don't operate as a collective

1135
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 2: force in it. They had to take any any suspicious person.

1136
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 2: A stranger shows up and if he bumps into you

1137
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 2: in a bar, you can't let it go because he

1138
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 2: may be testing you like a perimeter, you know, probe

1139
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:33,960
Speaker 2: to see if he can come that if you're a

1140
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 2: weekly and he can come back that night and steal

1141
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 2: your herd of goats, steal your cattle. Because you can

1142
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 2: do that overnight. You can't take a thousand acres of wheat.

1143
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 2: You can't move that overnight. It takes a collective effort.

1144
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,439
Speaker 2: Right to harvest it, put it on a truck, put

1145
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:50,200
Speaker 2: it on you know whatever, and take it to market.

1146
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 2: But with herds, and it moved out across the country

1147
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 2: when you think about it, you know, with the last

1148
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 2: bashing being the cattle country in the west right where

1149
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 2: they fought the farmers coming in and putting up fences,

1150
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 2: et cetera. And they even got down to killing with regulators,

1151
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 2: you know, and things like that. So that culture's there.

1152
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 2: And what I would say is just know that they're

1153
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:18,919
Speaker 2: suspect of everybody that doesn't, you know, come from their

1154
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 2: local area. Any outside that shows up, they're watching you.

1155
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 2: I was going to say, I had this this this

1156
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 2: oral surgeon out here who found out me. You got

1157
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 2: acquainted with me a little bit, and he went, wait

1158
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 2: a minute, you're from Kentucky's I want the University of Kentucky.

1159
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:39,400
Speaker 2: He's wearing diners and know where you've ever heard of

1160
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 2: it either. I went to the University of Kentucky and

1161
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 2: did my They had a program there where you did.

1162
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 2: He had gotten his degree in dentistry and went back

1163
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 2: there to specialize in oral surgery. And while you're doing it,

1164
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 2: they became an MD, became a medical doctor. Along with

1165
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:57,120
Speaker 2: you know, getting his specially in oral surgery, he said.

1166
01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 2: But part of the deal was, I said, well, I'm

1167
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 2: from You probably never been where I'm born, Pipewell, Kentucky.

1168
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:07,040
Speaker 2: We down it's last corner of the state. And he said,

1169
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 2: are you kidding? He said, our professor, the head of

1170
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 2: the department at University of Kentucky, had had dental offices

1171
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 2: in Pike County, in Floyd County, which is where I lived,

1172
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 2: he said, and we had to Part of the deal

1173
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 2: was we had to go work those on the weekends

1174
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 2: for him. He said, let me tell you something I

1175
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 2: learned a lot. He said. There was a guy had

1176
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 2: a dog near him. He was living and he had

1177
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:37,920
Speaker 2: a little house that was owned by the by whoever.

1178
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 2: This doctor was at University of Kentucky. And he said,

1179
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 2: I was asleep the first couple of nights and there

1180
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 2: was a hound dog, like you know I was. It

1181
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 2: wasn't even it was a hunting dog, but he was.

1182
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 2: They were in this pen on an adjacent lot and

1183
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 2: they were barking all night, and he said, I had

1184
01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:59,200
Speaker 2: to get sleep, he said, so I went over and

1185
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 2: just lifted the thing. They weren't going to stop. They're

1186
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 2: hound dogs, you know, just in there, bellering and hollering.

1187
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 2: He said, I just lifted the latch and kind of

1188
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 2: let them go. He said. About two days later, he said,

1189
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 2: I gotta knock on my door in that little house,

1190
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:20,800
Speaker 2: shotgun house, he said. He said. The guy came up

1191
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:26,360
Speaker 2: and he said, uh, I said, hey, mister. He said,

1192
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,639
Speaker 2: just two guys. He said. They were scary looking, haunted,

1193
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:34,040
Speaker 2: gaunt faced, you know, coal miner looking guys, and they're

1194
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 2: hunting caps. And there to them, he said, said our

1195
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:43,599
Speaker 2: dog got out. And he said, oh really, he said yeah, yeah,

1196
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 2: he said we got them back. He said, but you

1197
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:50,720
Speaker 2: wouldn't know anything about that, would you let them getting out?

1198
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:53,720
Speaker 2: And he said I was like, he said, I literally.

1199
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 2: But he talked about the culture. He told me. He said,

1200
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 2: you know, they would pay in cash and somebody said,

1201
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:01,439
Speaker 2: I knew they couldn't afford any of it. And they

1202
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 2: would come in and have wads of cash to give

1203
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 2: him to fix their kid's tooth or fix and he

1204
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 2: said it was just it was heartbreaking at times. He said,

1205
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,679
Speaker 2: and what was you know, part of that experience? And

1206
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 2: and but he said they looked at him and he said,

1207
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,760
Speaker 2: you know, you don't let a man dog loose and

1208
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 2: he said, I took it. He said, I got the warning.

1209
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:23,920
Speaker 2: He said. They were both standing. He said they were

1210
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:26,519
Speaker 2: holding shotguns because there were hunters, you know, and hunter

1211
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 2: caps and he said staring at him. He said, because

1212
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 2: so his experience there, it was interesting, you know. He

1213
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 2: and I uh talked about it many times over the years.

1214
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:42,360
Speaker 2: So that culture it's a lost part of America, you know,

1215
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 2: in a way it's it's it's and it's been forgotten

1216
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:48,680
Speaker 2: a lot, you know, they've been left, you know, like

1217
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:51,160
Speaker 2: you said, the opioid crisis that's gone on down there

1218
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 2: and throughout that area of the region, you know. And

1219
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 2: and he'll be theology. He touches on all that the

1220
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:02,840
Speaker 2: aspects of it you get out and Gladwell discusses that

1221
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:07,520
Speaker 2: aspect about in outliers about at the University of michigand

1222
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 2: a double blind study of kids that were removed from

1223
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 2: the South or just recently moved from them stuff, but

1224
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 2: even those that were two and three generations removed. And

1225
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 2: I believe they found in the nineties when they were

1226
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 2: unlocking the DNA code, right, they finally pre prior to

1227
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:25,679
Speaker 2: twenty three and meterison all that stuff they discovered maybe

1228
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 2: a gene why people think they've had past lives. You

1229
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 2: know that you're carrying a sense memory gene. If you've

1230
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 2: read about the sense memories, you're carrying memories from all

1231
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 2: the relative your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, great great great

1232
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 2: as long as they lived through experiences long enough to

1233
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 2: you know, convey those thoughts and experiences through their DNA

1234
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:55,640
Speaker 2: by pro creating forward right, so that if you had

1235
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:59,519
Speaker 2: a great great grandfather that fought in something, you have

1236
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:03,120
Speaker 2: this it's memory, Or you have apprehensions about height, or

1237
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 2: you have you know, you know what I mean. And

1238
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 2: they were talking. Gladwell discusses that these kids that were

1239
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 2: even a generation or two generations removed from the South

1240
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:18,919
Speaker 2: still behaved with the umbrage of Southerners at the University

1241
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 2: of Michigan when they were presented with a circumstance that

1242
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:25,800
Speaker 2: felt insulting to them, How they would react versus a

1243
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 2: kid from New York or you know, a kid from

1244
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:31,080
Speaker 2: the Northeast who didn't react the same way, didn't take

1245
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 2: you know, as much umbrage was something you know, the

1246
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:37,120
Speaker 2: you know the challenge of it. And I do believe

1247
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 2: that it has to do with with being a lost element.

1248
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 2: And I used to tell people, I said, look, Kentucky

1249
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 2: is a mountain state. There's parts of it that are

1250
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:52,520
Speaker 2: that are dixiefied, you know, the central and western part,

1251
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 2: but eastern and southeastern Kentucky, eastern West Kentucky. It's mountain culture. Billy,

1252
01:11:57,880 --> 01:11:59,599
Speaker 2: Bob Thornton and I have talked about that because he's

1253
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:04,080
Speaker 2: from arc which is a mountain state again, and it's different.

1254
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 2: The dialects are different. It's not Southern, it's not Southern

1255
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:14,840
Speaker 2: colloquialism the same. It's not you know, Dixie Land kind

1256
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:19,240
Speaker 2: of you know stuff. It's and it was a border

1257
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 2: state for that reason, I think, and that's why West

1258
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 2: Virginia broke away from Virginia, that section of the state,

1259
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:28,760
Speaker 2: you know, within you know, within those states. There was

1260
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:31,960
Speaker 2: this conflict going on. The Hatfields of McCoy's feuded in

1261
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:35,599
Speaker 2: that county historically, that's where it happened, Pike County, Kentucky,

1262
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 2: and they believed that it was an outgrowth of the

1263
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 2: Civil War. I think the McCoys sided with the Union

1264
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 2: and the hat Fields were sympathizers to the Confederacy, and

1265
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:49,519
Speaker 2: they had sons that were in the Southern Army and

1266
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 2: one of them came back and was hiding in a

1267
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:54,840
Speaker 2: cave and the McCoy's allegedly gave him up to the

1268
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 2: Union troops that were there and pipe Bull and they

1269
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:00,920
Speaker 2: went up and killed it. And they believe that's where

1270
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 2: the feud began with the Hatfields of McCoy's and it

1271
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:07,439
Speaker 2: went on, you know that one, you know, for about

1272
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:11,559
Speaker 2: forty five years. A sheriff finally arrested one of each

1273
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:14,760
Speaker 2: part of each family, put them on a barge because

1274
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:16,800
Speaker 2: they couldn't keep them. They would go break them out

1275
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 2: of the jail, you know, literally, and he put them

1276
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 2: on a logging barge at that time before the coal

1277
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:24,720
Speaker 2: barges and sent him up river to Ashland and over

1278
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 2: to Louisville and they were held there and stood a

1279
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:28,680
Speaker 2: trial and that tamped it down and they both went

1280
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 2: to prison and that stopped the feud. As you know

1281
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:37,280
Speaker 2: what historically I've read anyway, that culture is different than

1282
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:42,040
Speaker 2: the Deep South. It's it's the isolationists, you know, they

1283
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 2: really are. It's like the Scottish Highland culture. You know,

1284
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:51,280
Speaker 2: the Scots they're not you know, they weren't like those

1285
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:54,640
Speaker 2: from England, you know, going back as far as you know,

1286
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 2: Mary Queen of Scotts, all of it. You know, it's

1287
01:13:57,439 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 2: so I think that the Blue States don't understand that

1288
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 2: dynamic of American culture, the you know, the outlier culture

1289
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:15,519
Speaker 2: that's part of that, right, those that are disenfranchised, no

1290
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 2: matter what race, you know, the disenfranchised that are part

1291
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:20,760
Speaker 2: of that. You know.

1292
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 1: Okay, your father was such an organization company man structure.

1293
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 1: You said he liked that. How'd you end up being

1294
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:37,920
Speaker 1: so entrepreneurial? Me?

1295
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, me being I don't think I'm not that much.

1296
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:46,439
Speaker 1: Two things, it's you're inherently an entrepreneur if you're a

1297
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:50,559
Speaker 1: musician making it's like he did a weekly he.

1298
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:54,040
Speaker 2: Would have never done that. He looked at me one time,

1299
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:56,840
Speaker 2: he said, well, I'm just graduated high school. He said, son, boy,

1300
01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 2: you got to know your station in life. And I

1301
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 2: thought I was sad for him when I looked at

1302
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:04,519
Speaker 2: him across you know, I was. I guess I was

1303
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:07,479
Speaker 2: eighteen or nineteen at that point, and I'm still living

1304
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:10,440
Speaker 2: at home and going to school, you know, school at

1305
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 2: a high state. And I thought, wow, it kind of

1306
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:17,280
Speaker 2: broke my heart for him. You know that he felt

1307
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:20,040
Speaker 2: there was a point as much as that Walter Mitty

1308
01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:24,559
Speaker 2: was in him, he didn't fully believe he could really,

1309
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 2: you know, grab that ring, you know, and that brass

1310
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 2: ring was not okay?

1311
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 1: Did you always know that you were gonna make it

1312
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 1: that you were going to grab the brass ring doing something?

1313
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:39,960
Speaker 2: For what I said fifth grade? Right that I even earlier,

1314
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:44,080
Speaker 2: there was a craziness, you know. So I'm just egotistical enough,

1315
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:47,760
Speaker 2: because enough of the narcissist maybe that I that I

1316
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 2: anyone that gave me encouragement again outside family, because they

1317
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 2: were and my parents were not. They didn't tamp me down,

1318
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:58,240
Speaker 2: you know, they didn't criticize you know, you know what

1319
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 2: I mean. It's like I've been I've been witnessed now

1320
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:05,960
Speaker 2: as an adult to some families. I'm stunned. I like, wow,

1321
01:16:06,120 --> 01:16:09,680
Speaker 2: That's why I said earlier. They weren't malicious ever, And

1322
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:12,000
Speaker 2: I look at it now and I think you where

1323
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:14,120
Speaker 2: you've got parents that are competing. I don't think what

1324
01:16:14,120 --> 01:16:16,160
Speaker 2: I've read from you that your parents competed with you.

1325
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 1: They love not what I think my mother on a

1326
01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 1: very subtle level, but the difference between my family and

1327
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 1: your family sounds like by today's standards, we were abused kids.

1328
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 1: My father used to hit us all the time.

1329
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:32,160
Speaker 2: Well we got spanked, oh and you didn't my dad,

1330
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:34,519
Speaker 2: but my mother, my mother would make us go pick

1331
01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:37,479
Speaker 2: our own switch. That's a hillbalid deal. We would have

1332
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 2: to go pick our own switch. And it wasn't one

1333
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:44,080
Speaker 2: you should bring back that would break. I remember testing

1334
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:46,960
Speaker 2: the switch out on my bare legs and shorts, going

1335
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:50,360
Speaker 2: back across the yard because she had this. We had

1336
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 2: this huge hedge that was we're on this house that

1337
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:57,479
Speaker 2: we had and we have to pick a switch out

1338
01:16:57,520 --> 01:16:59,680
Speaker 2: of there. This is brutal, right, we have to go

1339
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:04,799
Speaker 2: pick the element of your of your torture yourself. And

1340
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:08,200
Speaker 2: so we got switched, but they didn't. Never got hit

1341
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:10,880
Speaker 2: in the face, never got hit with you, you know

1342
01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 2: what I mean. It was I was spanked, you know.

1343
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:18,080
Speaker 1: It was a little bit more vicious where I grew up. Really,

1344
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:21,240
Speaker 1: my father was a little out of control. He'd had

1345
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:24,439
Speaker 1: his father lost a hand in a railroad accident and

1346
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:27,360
Speaker 1: had been married before. And when he lost die he

1347
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:29,960
Speaker 1: left all whatever money he had to the first family.

1348
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:33,680
Speaker 1: My father had a heart upbringing, and it wasn't until

1349
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 1: very you know, we were way out of the house

1350
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:40,719
Speaker 1: where I remember there used to be this chairlifted Aspen Highlands.

1351
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 1: He was a shitty skier, but he was a terrible athlete.

1352
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 1: It's one thing he could do. And there was this

1353
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:47,040
Speaker 1: chair that took a half an hour. And it would

1354
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:49,559
Speaker 1: be difficult to talk to my father. You could listen

1355
01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:51,880
Speaker 1: to him, but it's hard to have a conversation. And

1356
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:54,920
Speaker 1: he started pontificating about all these things that happened to

1357
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 1: him growing up. Never told any of those stories until

1358
01:17:58,920 --> 01:17:59,679
Speaker 1: he had made.

1359
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:05,200
Speaker 2: It right right. Wow, did you did you get hit

1360
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:10,559
Speaker 2: like around the face and all that? I mean, oh,

1361
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:11,160
Speaker 2: I mean.

1362
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:15,519
Speaker 1: You know that great line, I'm gonna hit you till

1363
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:20,720
Speaker 1: you stop crying. Wow, that was all that, you know?

1364
01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:21,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was me.

1365
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 1: Usually it was the belt, sometimes the hair brush, They

1366
01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 1: get the hair brush in the head. My father would

1367
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:28,840
Speaker 1: slap you in the face.

1368
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:32,720
Speaker 2: Sure, and yeah we didn't. My father, he contains him.

1369
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 2: Not a guy.

1370
01:18:34,479 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 1: My father was not the type of guy who was

1371
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 1: beefy and scary that way. But man, when he lost it,

1372
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:44,320
Speaker 1: he was it was almost like this guy is losing control.

1373
01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:45,599
Speaker 1: It's like you felt sane.

1374
01:18:45,880 --> 01:18:49,839
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I mean, well, they believed

1375
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 2: in corporal punishment, they were you know, they they spanked,

1376
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:58,439
Speaker 2: but we again I didn't. I'm trying to think of

1377
01:18:58,479 --> 01:19:00,760
Speaker 2: my brother. My brother probably came to closest because he

1378
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:07,280
Speaker 2: threatened my dad. And uh, one time I heard him.

1379
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:12,400
Speaker 2: I was in college. My brother was in a bedroom

1380
01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:14,720
Speaker 2: next to me. But at that point we had a

1381
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 2: you know, a house you know, on the sub we'd

1382
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:20,559
Speaker 2: gotten one car garage, but had had four bedrooms. My

1383
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:23,840
Speaker 2: sister had a bedroom, brother and I and my parents.

1384
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:27,160
Speaker 2: And he came upstairs and my brother was still in bed.

1385
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:29,000
Speaker 2: He was supposed to be out and going to you know,

1386
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 2: high school, getting and I remember he was grown. He

1387
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:38,200
Speaker 2: was probably in his senior year and I was in

1388
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 2: bed because I didn't have a class at at high State.

1389
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:44,759
Speaker 2: I was and I heard my dad walk in and go, hey,

1390
01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:48,120
Speaker 2: get up, and my brother turned or no, he opened

1391
01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:50,439
Speaker 2: the door with me first is what was? He said,

1392
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 2: you're getting up? And I said yeah, I mean you know,

1393
01:19:53,479 --> 01:19:57,800
Speaker 2: and opened the door of my brother. My dad got up,

1394
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:00,040
Speaker 2: even when he didn't. I never knew dated he and

1395
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:02,599
Speaker 2: have another job. He would leave a job and go

1396
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 2: right to another job, you know, he did. He just

1397
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:09,439
Speaker 2: had that ethic, you know, he would find work in

1398
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:12,760
Speaker 2: early because the army. He was up even in his

1399
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:14,879
Speaker 2: days off. He was up to six am with coffee,

1400
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:18,160
Speaker 2: you know, down there, you know. And so he walked

1401
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:21,680
Speaker 2: into my door first, and he closed and opened my

1402
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:25,200
Speaker 2: brother's door, and my brother rolled over in the bed

1403
01:20:25,240 --> 01:20:29,680
Speaker 2: said I heard your mouth. Now what's the t ow

1404
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:33,920
Speaker 2: He said that, and all I heard was my dad

1405
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 2: crossed the room in like three strides and he picked

1406
01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:42,080
Speaker 2: him up by the collar and the butt of the

1407
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:46,120
Speaker 2: sheets grabbed his body, picked him up and threw him.

1408
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:48,800
Speaker 2: And that was the barracks I'm sure that was a

1409
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:53,400
Speaker 2: barracks moment. Across the room. He hit the wall. He goes, hey, boy,

1410
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:57,439
Speaker 2: you could you call me my mouth again? Whatever it

1411
01:20:57,520 --> 01:21:00,400
Speaker 2: wasn't it stormed out and left, didn't it even face?

1412
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:02,720
Speaker 2: And I got him. I remember, I walked down. I went,

1413
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 2: I leaned on the door John, I said, look at him,

1414
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:08,759
Speaker 2: and he's on the floor, still in a pile of sheets.

1415
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 2: And I said, dude, what were you thinking? It's like,

1416
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:17,280
Speaker 2: what are you thinking? And I and he threatened. I

1417
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:23,519
Speaker 2: heard threats, like another great euphemism. He said. My brother

1418
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:26,200
Speaker 2: had the refrigerator door. You know, this is when we're

1419
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 2: manchild's right. You know, I'm like seventeen, my brother's you know, fifteen.

1420
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:32,920
Speaker 2: We're all standing and he's drinking out of the cart

1421
01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:35,280
Speaker 2: and you know, instead of pouring it into the glass, right,

1422
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:39,439
Speaker 2: which which turned my stomach. I didn't do it because

1423
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:41,880
Speaker 2: I don't want to see it done and I'm not

1424
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 2: doing But he was standing there and he did something

1425
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:46,679
Speaker 2: like that, and he left the door just standing open

1426
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:48,439
Speaker 2: and looked over at My dad was sitting at the

1427
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:50,920
Speaker 2: other end of the kitchen table drinking coffee and read

1428
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:53,920
Speaker 2: the newspaper. And he looked up and he said, hell

1429
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:58,720
Speaker 2: you think you're doing He said what he goes, how

1430
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:00,679
Speaker 2: would you like to have to drop up your parts

1431
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:03,559
Speaker 2: to eat your next meal? And we both looked at

1432
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:09,240
Speaker 2: each other, like, how would that happen? He let us.

1433
01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:12,479
Speaker 2: He let that sink in for a minute, and he said,

1434
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:16,559
Speaker 2: because that's about how far down your throat your teeth

1435
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:19,320
Speaker 2: are going to be if you keep this up. When

1436
01:22:19,360 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 2: I got that's the army sergeant going on. And like

1437
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:29,879
Speaker 2: I said, he grew up. My granddad I barely remember.

1438
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 2: He died young. I mean it was early fifties. He

1439
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:34,920
Speaker 2: had a heart attack. My grandmother at forty nine, so

1440
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:38,080
Speaker 2: My dad's parents are both gone. My mom's parents the

1441
01:22:38,360 --> 01:22:42,360
Speaker 2: Kentucky side. My granddad, Luke, I knew till I was grown,

1442
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:46,120
Speaker 2: and he was really a soft spoken mountain man, you know.

1443
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:50,920
Speaker 2: He was just this humble coal miner. And I knew

1444
01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:54,360
Speaker 2: about all that from the mate Wan point of view, right.

1445
01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:57,120
Speaker 2: You know. He was there when the shootings happened, all

1446
01:22:57,160 --> 01:22:59,799
Speaker 2: of it. You know, they were back in the twenties

1447
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:02,680
Speaker 2: and thirties. He was a minor, and when they unionized

1448
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:05,320
Speaker 2: and the Pinkertons came in and killed people, you know,

1449
01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:08,439
Speaker 2: so I saw all of it, you know, I saw

1450
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:13,360
Speaker 2: you know, the plus and minus of the unionists, you know,

1451
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:18,519
Speaker 2: and what happened and how it happened, and watched in

1452
01:23:18,640 --> 01:23:22,240
Speaker 2: any event, my dad said, no, my brother came the

1453
01:23:22,280 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 2: closest because they would lock horns like that. Example. You know,

1454
01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:28,720
Speaker 2: it's like what he's the middle kid, Bob. You know,

1455
01:23:29,400 --> 01:23:30,600
Speaker 2: you can't help believe me.

1456
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:35,679
Speaker 1: My older sister used to test my father all the time,

1457
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:38,040
Speaker 1: I remember, because we all ate dinner together.

1458
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:41,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and we didn't take didn't take.

1459
01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:43,679
Speaker 1: Much set my father off, and he would reach over

1460
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:46,280
Speaker 1: and smack you. It was about how much could you

1461
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:49,240
Speaker 1: tamp it down, and my sister would get in our

1462
01:23:49,320 --> 01:23:51,720
Speaker 1: One time she got in an argument with him and

1463
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:56,879
Speaker 1: took his car. What just could not fucking believe it.

1464
01:23:56,880 --> 01:24:00,160
Speaker 2: It's like, what were you thinking of it? Oh?

1465
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:00,479
Speaker 1: Broke?

1466
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:02,240
Speaker 2: No.

1467
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:07,360
Speaker 1: But the only thing is my mother. You know, when

1468
01:24:07,400 --> 01:24:09,559
Speaker 1: Reggie Jackson came to New York, he said, I'm the

1469
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:12,880
Speaker 1: straw that stirs the drink. My mother socially was the

1470
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:15,400
Speaker 1: straw that stirs the drink, right, But she was a

1471
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:20,200
Speaker 1: hard ass. Where's my father? As crazy as he could be?

1472
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:23,480
Speaker 1: If he sensed you were really in a bad spot,

1473
01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:27,000
Speaker 1: he says, yeah, it sounds like you're really a bad

1474
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:29,559
Speaker 1: Send you twenty dollars, go out for a good deal,

1475
01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:30,840
Speaker 1: try to figure it out.

1476
01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:31,519
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1477
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:34,080
Speaker 1: My mother would say, go get a job tomorrow.

1478
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:35,120
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah, blahlah blah.

1479
01:24:35,200 --> 01:24:36,559
Speaker 1: You know, I don't want to hear it.

1480
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:41,840
Speaker 2: My mom was actually is a tender hearted person. My

1481
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:49,919
Speaker 2: dad was actually underneath that facade. You know, he would

1482
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:53,640
Speaker 2: he was you know, the thing that I regret that

1483
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:57,880
Speaker 2: we're forgetting is forgiveness on our society and life. Do

1484
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:02,160
Speaker 2: you know, Bob, forgiveness is a lost thought?

1485
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 1: Well, hey, there's two types of forgiveness. I think, you know,

1486
01:25:06,720 --> 01:25:11,720
Speaker 1: they hold people to unreasonable standards. Now, we all make mistakes.

1487
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:14,479
Speaker 1: If you make the mistake and you apologize, we can't

1488
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:18,000
Speaker 1: hold it against it forever. But I must admit there

1489
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:21,160
Speaker 1: are people who've done things in my life where I

1490
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:23,400
Speaker 1: don't forgive them, and then people say, well if you

1491
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:26,920
Speaker 1: give them, you know, forget that third party. You know, well,

1492
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:29,679
Speaker 1: if you forgive them, you'll feel better. I don't think

1493
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:32,719
Speaker 1: so as far as letting my father off the hook.

1494
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:35,840
Speaker 1: He came from such a hard background whatever, sure.

1495
01:25:36,280 --> 01:25:39,720
Speaker 2: Well yeah, that's but also I think my dad had

1496
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:43,439
Speaker 2: the willingness to you know, and as guys you know,

1497
01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:49,040
Speaker 2: and my wife sometimes was like, look, yeah, guys fighting

1498
01:25:49,080 --> 01:25:51,599
Speaker 2: and you get over you like, you know, you wrestle

1499
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:55,639
Speaker 2: around to one and then you guys now are friends.

1500
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:59,559
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, but that's the listen.

1501
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:02,679
Speaker 1: You know, that's one thing you learn growing up my mother.

1502
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:06,160
Speaker 1: You know, people today they'll call up the school and

1503
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:09,719
Speaker 1: say they have to stop bullying my kid. In my era,

1504
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:10,880
Speaker 1: that would be like.

1505
01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:12,320
Speaker 2: The curse of death.

1506
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:15,320
Speaker 1: If your parents stood up for you, these kids would

1507
01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:18,120
Speaker 1: beat the shit out of you. So, you know, my

1508
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:20,400
Speaker 1: mother would never get involved, and she had the right

1509
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:25,799
Speaker 1: lesson unless you stand up to them. Once you stand

1510
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:29,559
Speaker 1: up to them, then they get over it. It's just amazing.

1511
01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:30,879
Speaker 1: They move on to the next.

1512
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:32,720
Speaker 2: Some of the culture that's going on now, to the

1513
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:35,880
Speaker 2: whole thing with us. You were referring to that we're

1514
01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 2: being so zealous in destroying people for a mistake.

1515
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:46,080
Speaker 1: Is I couldn't agree.

1516
01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:49,080
Speaker 2: He was a bully. Called a bully culture to the

1517
01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:51,800
Speaker 2: victim can become the in fact, most of the time,

1518
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:55,800
Speaker 2: you know. I talked with Billy Bob Thornton and I

1519
01:26:55,880 --> 01:27:00,320
Speaker 2: when he wrote gave me the script for Sling Blade.

1520
01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:03,519
Speaker 2: I said, this character is interesting because he's he's a bully,

1521
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:06,760
Speaker 2: and bullies are usually those that are most afraid. And

1522
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:09,479
Speaker 2: I said, he said, yeah, he said he. I said,

1523
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:12,200
Speaker 2: you know the character that I was playing, And I said,

1524
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:14,320
Speaker 2: he's the one that's the most afraid in the room

1525
01:27:14,320 --> 01:27:17,400
Speaker 2: and that's why he's or it's out of his control

1526
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:21,760
Speaker 2: and he freaks and starts to But the bullying is

1527
01:27:22,160 --> 01:27:26,080
Speaker 2: usually born out of oftentimes being having been the bullied, right,

1528
01:27:26,160 --> 01:27:28,720
Speaker 2: the victim, Oh, yeah, the last person you want in

1529
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:30,919
Speaker 2: charge of something. And that's what they do at prisons.

1530
01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:34,760
Speaker 2: They make you know, trustees out of other inmates, and

1531
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:37,439
Speaker 2: they you know, put them in charge of the other

1532
01:27:37,479 --> 01:27:41,960
Speaker 2: and they're oftentimes the worst you know, uh, you know,

1533
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,479
Speaker 2: the worst thing that could happen to the other prisoners

1534
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:48,200
Speaker 2: is another prisoner being elevated being in charge of them. Anyway.

1535
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:50,840
Speaker 1: But well, no, it's the same type of thing, you know,

1536
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:54,400
Speaker 1: talking about your forgiveness. There are all these people who

1537
01:27:54,479 --> 01:27:57,840
Speaker 1: can't change their mind. What kind of life is that,

1538
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:01,040
Speaker 1: you know, like in politics, Okay, I believed one thing,

1539
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:02,679
Speaker 1: I now know I'm nothing else.

1540
01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 2: Let's move on.

1541
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:06,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you can't do that. It's all a team sports.

1542
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:10,720
Speaker 2: To me, that shows a capacity of intelligence that you're

1543
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:14,800
Speaker 2: able to evolve, right, and we can all evolve, you know,

1544
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:22,599
Speaker 2: all of us and anyway, so yeah, but my mom

1545
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:26,519
Speaker 2: also tamped that down. She wouldn't stand. She said, he

1546
01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:28,679
Speaker 2: shook me one time when he had just gotten back,

1547
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:30,400
Speaker 2: you know, and just kind of knew me. And she

1548
01:28:30,600 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 2: was driving in the car and he was holding me

1549
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:37,240
Speaker 2: and I started crying, screeching, like you know, the ten

1550
01:28:37,280 --> 01:28:39,920
Speaker 2: month old or whatever I was, and he kind of

1551
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:44,160
Speaker 2: just said he shook me. And she took the car

1552
01:28:44,240 --> 01:28:47,040
Speaker 2: across the highway into the medium and back up the

1553
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:51,240
Speaker 2: other side yelling at him into about he's all right, okay,

1554
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:55,760
Speaker 2: don't kill him whatever. I'll never touch the kid. It's like.

1555
01:28:56,600 --> 01:29:00,280
Speaker 2: But she, very early on was our protector, and she

1556
01:29:00,360 --> 01:29:03,080
Speaker 2: wouldn't allow my granddad, who I was touched on a

1557
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:06,360
Speaker 2: minute ago. My dad had a tough way, you know,

1558
01:29:06,360 --> 01:29:09,960
Speaker 2: like your dad, you know, he got knocked around. I mean,

1559
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:14,040
Speaker 2: my granddad was a frustrated prize fighter. He had fought

1560
01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:16,479
Speaker 2: in clubs what they call a club fighter when he

1561
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:20,559
Speaker 2: was underage, like at seventeen eighteen nineteen, and you had

1562
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:23,240
Speaker 2: to be twenty one. And they went to his parents.

1563
01:29:23,240 --> 01:29:25,080
Speaker 2: There was a guy manager came through and saw him.

1564
01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:27,479
Speaker 2: He had a lot of fights and was evidently had

1565
01:29:27,479 --> 01:29:31,599
Speaker 2: a really vicious right hand, and they tried to get

1566
01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:34,800
Speaker 2: him turned pro and his parents. The old railroad or

1567
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:38,360
Speaker 2: my great granddad, who I knew, actually I knew years

1568
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:42,479
Speaker 2: beyond my grandfather because he outlived he lived into his nineties.

1569
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:47,599
Speaker 2: Samuel Burt, who had come in the wagon, that covered

1570
01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:53,479
Speaker 2: wagon into the Ohio territory, come across. He he wouldn't sign.

1571
01:29:54,080 --> 01:30:00,960
Speaker 2: He said, nope, nope, Lawrence. That was LR Lawrence. He's

1572
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:05,400
Speaker 2: gonna work on a railroad. And he said destroyed him.

1573
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:08,439
Speaker 2: So he never could. And he drank, even though you

1574
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:11,639
Speaker 2: know he was true to my grandmother, but he drank

1575
01:30:12,439 --> 01:30:15,960
Speaker 2: and fistfought. He became a yard boss from the Penn

1576
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:20,200
Speaker 2: Centry and ran the yard railroad yards. But tough guy.

1577
01:30:20,439 --> 01:30:24,400
Speaker 2: And my brother, my my my dad and my uncle's

1578
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:29,760
Speaker 2: you know, were uh, you know, treated pretty rough, you

1579
01:30:29,800 --> 01:30:34,320
Speaker 2: know by him. So my dad had an empathy for us.

1580
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:37,200
Speaker 2: But my mom is who guided it. You know. I

1581
01:30:37,240 --> 01:30:40,680
Speaker 2: watched her at the dinner. He never hit one of

1582
01:30:40,760 --> 01:30:42,439
Speaker 2: us in the you know, like you were saying the

1583
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:49,280
Speaker 2: never back. And he threatened, he threatened. I could see

1584
01:30:49,320 --> 01:30:53,640
Speaker 2: he was trying real hard not to With my brother especially.

1585
01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:58,040
Speaker 2: I used to say to him, said, dude, just say

1586
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:01,760
Speaker 2: yes whatever, and when you get gone and do what

1587
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:05,439
Speaker 2: you're gonna do, get out, you know, don't be the

1588
01:31:05,479 --> 01:31:08,120
Speaker 2: rebel that has no cause here. You know, you're not

1589
01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:11,800
Speaker 2: gonna win, right. Family dynamics. It's funny that you and

1590
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:14,000
Speaker 2: then you're the youngest of your family.

1591
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:16,439
Speaker 1: Well what happens is my older sister would be out

1592
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:19,919
Speaker 1: of control, then my younger sister would act.

1593
01:31:19,720 --> 01:31:23,280
Speaker 2: Like the baby. Well they stay there. You know.

1594
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:26,519
Speaker 1: The key is just don't get caught in the crossfire. Yeah,

1595
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:29,719
Speaker 1: there was so much. My father owned a liquor store. Oh,

1596
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:33,640
Speaker 1: my sister started to have these parties on on the

1597
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:38,320
Speaker 1: weekends where not only would they drink his booze, they

1598
01:31:38,320 --> 01:31:40,559
Speaker 1: would leave the boxes at the end of the street.

1599
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:41,000
Speaker 2: Oh.

1600
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:44,599
Speaker 1: My father would go bersirque, say you know, I'm gonna

1601
01:31:44,640 --> 01:31:48,400
Speaker 1: lose my liquor license. Forget. It's like you're there's gonna

1602
01:31:48,439 --> 01:31:52,400
Speaker 1: be no money. The other thing my father, my father

1603
01:31:52,439 --> 01:31:56,320
Speaker 1: would turn around in the station wagon and smack all

1604
01:31:56,360 --> 01:31:57,920
Speaker 1: of us in the back to eat, and we were

1605
01:31:58,000 --> 01:31:59,360
Speaker 1: less scared to get expacked.

1606
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:01,280
Speaker 2: The thing's got to drive the car right off the

1607
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:06,280
Speaker 2: road was the bigger issue was dying at that point.

1608
01:32:07,160 --> 01:32:10,000
Speaker 2: The only time I've got my old man. We had

1609
01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:14,599
Speaker 2: a Buick Electra to twenty five convertibles. They inherited from

1610
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:17,640
Speaker 2: my aunt and uncle had it for they sold it

1611
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:20,040
Speaker 2: to my parents. My mom drove it. So we were

1612
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:22,760
Speaker 2: going to Kentucky in that and we were taking this

1613
01:32:22,920 --> 01:32:25,800
Speaker 2: cat that we had a duce in a quarter, duce

1614
01:32:25,880 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 2: in a quarter. I heard it at the at the

1615
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:30,559
Speaker 2: carboys the gap came up and said, where's y'all's car,

1616
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:32,240
Speaker 2: And I said, it's over there. He goes that deduce

1617
01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:35,439
Speaker 2: in a quarter that. I was like, wow, that's cool.

1618
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:40,320
Speaker 2: I heard more slang from my dad pre anybody in

1619
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:43,160
Speaker 2: my junior high or high school saying it, because he

1620
01:32:43,240 --> 01:32:45,839
Speaker 2: was this old army guy, right, They had the slang,

1621
01:32:46,280 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 2: the stuff like he'd say, the dude thought he was bad.

1622
01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:54,280
Speaker 2: I said bad. My mother said, David, David, will you

1623
01:32:54,360 --> 01:32:58,599
Speaker 2: please just go easy on how you talk to these kids.

1624
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:00,920
Speaker 2: He said, well, that's what he said. He thought he

1625
01:33:01,040 --> 01:33:04,000
Speaker 2: was bad. He thought he was a bad dude. I

1626
01:33:04,040 --> 01:33:06,439
Speaker 2: mean a decade before I heard anybody on the streets

1627
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:09,839
Speaker 2: say that guy's bad, right, and it's like bad badly

1628
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:12,640
Speaker 2: where Brown was late catching up to me, and my

1629
01:33:12,760 --> 01:33:16,240
Speaker 2: dad said it and all other kinds of slang. And

1630
01:33:16,280 --> 01:33:18,680
Speaker 2: he said, well meaning he thought he was tough, you know,

1631
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:21,800
Speaker 2: he thought he was a real bad cat. And I

1632
01:33:21,880 --> 01:33:24,680
Speaker 2: used to say and it was a fascinating moment. I

1633
01:33:24,720 --> 01:33:27,120
Speaker 2: got to take he and his wife to Europe with me.

1634
01:33:27,200 --> 01:33:29,599
Speaker 2: He had not been back to Germany and he didn't

1635
01:33:29,600 --> 01:33:31,160
Speaker 2: want to leave. He was going to get married. I mean,

1636
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:35,400
Speaker 2: thank god he didn't get I wouldn't exist. And the

1637
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:39,040
Speaker 2: commanding general took over his division had been the colonel

1638
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:43,679
Speaker 2: at bestone in the famous note where he wrote back

1639
01:33:43,720 --> 01:33:46,400
Speaker 2: to the Germans, nuts and the guy reads it and

1640
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:48,080
Speaker 2: remember them. It's in the midde of the Battle of Ball.

1641
01:33:48,200 --> 01:33:52,160
Speaker 2: He was nuts Buss and he's like and so he

1642
01:33:52,240 --> 01:33:54,760
Speaker 2: spoke German at the dinner table to us because he

1643
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:57,400
Speaker 2: was there six years. He would speak at go Ah,

1644
01:33:57,600 --> 01:34:02,720
Speaker 2: expl said Dodd shot because he dated this, and so

1645
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:04,880
Speaker 2: that general took over and said, anybody'd been over here

1646
01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:09,000
Speaker 2: longer than eighteen months, they're gone. He'd been there six years,

1647
01:34:09,080 --> 01:34:12,360
Speaker 2: he loved it, and so he had never been back.

1648
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:15,200
Speaker 2: So I think it was in nineteen I was playing

1649
01:34:15,200 --> 01:34:19,400
Speaker 2: the Monterey Jazz Festival Montro Jazz Festival, not Monterey, Montro

1650
01:34:19,520 --> 01:34:23,599
Speaker 2: Jazz Festival in Switzerland, and they did a bunch of

1651
01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:25,920
Speaker 2: things with this. I took them. We had several dates

1652
01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:29,400
Speaker 2: across around Europe, a whole run of stuff, and I

1653
01:34:29,439 --> 01:34:31,639
Speaker 2: took Key and his wife. And one of the great

1654
01:34:31,640 --> 01:34:33,560
Speaker 2: moments for my dad and I to have shared was

1655
01:34:33,600 --> 01:34:35,400
Speaker 2: I got to introduce him to Johnny Cash. You know,

1656
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:39,080
Speaker 2: he was the songs that made him famous. Sun record

1657
01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:43,640
Speaker 2: I had because my dad had it. The albums that

1658
01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:46,160
Speaker 2: I got exposed to her because my dad, my dad

1659
01:34:46,280 --> 01:34:48,200
Speaker 2: was one of those what I used to call and

1660
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:52,280
Speaker 2: Cash knew when I met the hillbilly cats that were

1661
01:34:52,280 --> 01:34:55,880
Speaker 2: the gis right, that were otherwise would have been locked.

1662
01:34:56,080 --> 01:35:00,240
Speaker 2: He What helped open my dad was the almost ten

1663
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:04,519
Speaker 2: years in the army he went culture shopping. Right, they

1664
01:35:04,520 --> 01:35:07,920
Speaker 2: were exposed to the world in the way that his

1665
01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:11,200
Speaker 2: dad never was. Right. They were locked in the Ohio

1666
01:35:11,360 --> 01:35:14,639
Speaker 2: that didn't go outside, you know, from wherever he run

1667
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:18,360
Speaker 2: from Pittsburgh to Evansville, Indiana, along that river and the

1668
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:22,840
Speaker 2: railroad that was it. And my great my granddad and

1669
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:26,280
Speaker 2: my mom's a man. He I remember my granny moved

1670
01:35:26,280 --> 01:35:30,400
Speaker 2: out to north of Dallas and Texas with her daughter,

1671
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:35,559
Speaker 2: the youngest of my mom's family, my aunt Kay, and

1672
01:35:35,640 --> 01:35:38,200
Speaker 2: lived with them the last year of her life. And

1673
01:35:38,280 --> 01:35:40,559
Speaker 2: she used to look. She said, Luther would have never

1674
01:35:41,160 --> 01:35:45,040
Speaker 2: imagined this Texas. She said, he never thought there was

1675
01:35:45,080 --> 01:35:49,080
Speaker 2: any places flat, you know, because we were just because

1676
01:35:49,120 --> 01:35:51,639
Speaker 2: you could see the sunrise and the horizon sun set

1677
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:56,120
Speaker 2: in the horizon, you know, for one hundred miles. So anyway,

1678
01:35:56,560 --> 01:36:01,439
Speaker 2: my dad in this really element in a weird way,

1679
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:04,840
Speaker 2: you know. Hillbilly Katz they were the post World War

1680
01:36:04,840 --> 01:36:09,960
Speaker 2: two generation of GI's right that occupied remember Elvis's great

1681
01:36:10,000 --> 01:36:13,679
Speaker 2: song out of g I blues occupation GI blues right,

1682
01:36:14,280 --> 01:36:17,559
Speaker 2: meaning it was his occupation. But they were occupying those

1683
01:36:17,680 --> 01:36:21,120
Speaker 2: places that were conquered, right. So that's what my dad was.

1684
01:36:21,600 --> 01:36:25,680
Speaker 2: And Johnny Cash and he they turned out that they

1685
01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:27,600
Speaker 2: were standing there and I introduced it, Dad, this is

1686
01:36:28,280 --> 01:36:31,639
Speaker 2: mister Cash, and Johnny this is my dad, and I said,

1687
01:36:31,680 --> 01:36:33,880
Speaker 2: I think you guys might have been here, and they

1688
01:36:33,920 --> 01:36:37,839
Speaker 2: turned out they were in Germany, stationed forty miles apart,

1689
01:36:38,439 --> 01:36:40,920
Speaker 2: same years, and they hit it, you know, they were like,

1690
01:36:41,000 --> 01:36:43,599
Speaker 2: oh yeah, but Johnny was in the Air Force, Dad,

1691
01:36:43,680 --> 01:36:46,400
Speaker 2: My dad was in the Army, and so that was

1692
01:36:46,439 --> 01:36:49,200
Speaker 2: a great moment to share with him, to watch him

1693
01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:53,759
Speaker 2: somebody who he really you know, idolized and had those records,

1694
01:36:53,800 --> 01:36:57,479
Speaker 2: those early Cash records, that stuff, and that's who he was,

1695
01:36:57,640 --> 01:37:02,320
Speaker 2: you know, those guys Cash Dad, you know Cash out

1696
01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:05,840
Speaker 2: of Arkansas and it's you know, Johnny Cash. And reading

1697
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:08,800
Speaker 2: his biography, you know he was a code breaker in

1698
01:37:08,840 --> 01:37:12,200
Speaker 2: the Air Force. He listened to Russian code and was

1699
01:37:12,200 --> 01:37:14,720
Speaker 2: a listener and that what is what is? But he

1700
01:37:14,800 --> 01:37:18,280
Speaker 2: wrote walked the line. They still had to pull sentry duty.

1701
01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:20,240
Speaker 2: He I don't know if you ever read this, but

1702
01:37:20,320 --> 01:37:24,120
Speaker 2: he wrote that song about pulling sentry duty on the

1703
01:37:24,120 --> 01:37:27,920
Speaker 2: flight line at the airbase in Germany, as I keep

1704
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:32,040
Speaker 2: a close watch on this heart of mine, right, brilliant. Huh,

1705
01:37:32,080 --> 01:37:36,040
Speaker 2: how genius is that art? You're pulling guard duty. That's

1706
01:37:36,040 --> 01:37:39,320
Speaker 2: a difference in a guy who's a poet and the

1707
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:42,040
Speaker 2: guy who just turned the wrench and going I just

1708
01:37:42,080 --> 01:37:45,200
Speaker 2: got to get out of here, you know. John Johnny

1709
01:37:45,200 --> 01:37:48,200
Speaker 2: writes that I walked the line out of pulling guard duty,

1710
01:37:48,479 --> 01:37:50,559
Speaker 2: but it was an interesting moment for that and then

1711
01:37:50,600 --> 01:37:54,479
Speaker 2: and so yeah, wow, we've talked so much. I've never

1712
01:37:54,520 --> 01:37:56,280
Speaker 2: talked this much about my dad with anybody.

1713
01:37:56,760 --> 01:38:07,880
Speaker 1: You know, Bob, did you know from a young age

1714
01:38:08,240 --> 01:38:11,640
Speaker 1: you were somebody special and you were destined for a

1715
01:38:11,640 --> 01:38:14,400
Speaker 1: different outcome from than your dad and your relatives?

1716
01:38:15,120 --> 01:38:18,479
Speaker 2: Well, like I said, there's probably enough narcissism in me,

1717
01:38:18,680 --> 01:38:20,960
Speaker 2: and it's just don't you come in with that. And

1718
01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:25,960
Speaker 2: maybe you know, but firstborn, you know, you're kind of

1719
01:38:26,240 --> 01:38:31,120
Speaker 2: treated like you're expected to be the shining star, but

1720
01:38:31,560 --> 01:38:34,960
Speaker 2: you're also treated differently. You know, I've got a little

1721
01:38:35,200 --> 01:38:38,360
Speaker 2: guy at this point, in my life. She know, I

1722
01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:40,360
Speaker 2: thought that train left the station a long time ago.

1723
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:43,320
Speaker 2: It did not. We've got a little guy coming up

1724
01:38:43,360 --> 01:38:46,360
Speaker 2: on three years old. Dalton and I watched and there's

1725
01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:48,880
Speaker 2: a and I said, I said, he's kind of precocious.

1726
01:38:48,920 --> 01:38:53,000
Speaker 2: You know, there's something about because firstborn's talk to more,

1727
01:38:53,320 --> 01:38:56,280
Speaker 2: you know, and she and I and are you know,

1728
01:38:56,960 --> 01:38:59,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm, you know, a bit older than my wife,

1729
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:02,880
Speaker 2: you know, and thank god that she's you know, still

1730
01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:07,600
Speaker 2: got her youth on her side with him. But the

1731
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:11,559
Speaker 2: beauty of it is that we've never either of us.

1732
01:39:12,040 --> 01:39:13,680
Speaker 2: I think we just talked to him like he's an

1733
01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:16,360
Speaker 2: adult from the time he was born, just kind of

1734
01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:20,160
Speaker 2: expecting and and my mother expected a lot, you know.

1735
01:39:20,720 --> 01:39:25,439
Speaker 2: And I think I carry with my mom. I had

1736
01:39:25,439 --> 01:39:27,720
Speaker 2: to get rid of some of it because it's it's

1737
01:39:27,920 --> 01:39:31,320
Speaker 2: it's packweights. You can't carry up that mountain, you know,

1738
01:39:31,320 --> 01:39:34,120
Speaker 2: if you're going to climb, you have to be able

1739
01:39:34,160 --> 01:39:36,080
Speaker 2: to shed it at some point. And I know when

1740
01:39:36,120 --> 01:39:39,559
Speaker 2: had happened. It kind of happened in stages. But one

1741
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:41,240
Speaker 2: of the moments was right before I left to come

1742
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:43,800
Speaker 2: to California. You know, I just had a moment where

1743
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:46,840
Speaker 2: we she and I had and my dad couldn't. He

1744
01:39:47,000 --> 01:39:49,640
Speaker 2: never got in between my mother and I, and I

1745
01:39:49,720 --> 01:39:52,880
Speaker 2: think it's because he felt we had a bond that

1746
01:39:53,040 --> 01:39:57,519
Speaker 2: was unique and different, because she spent almost her entire

1747
01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:00,479
Speaker 2: pregnancy alone with me, and we were down you know,

1748
01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:04,120
Speaker 2: my grand her parents, and then the first nine months

1749
01:40:04,160 --> 01:40:06,200
Speaker 2: of my life, he wasn't here right and he wasn't

1750
01:40:06,520 --> 01:40:10,920
Speaker 2: with us. So I think he always left the two

1751
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:13,640
Speaker 2: of us, my brother, not his movies. He was, you

1752
01:40:13,720 --> 01:40:17,320
Speaker 2: know there, you know, handed my brother and my sister

1753
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:20,320
Speaker 2: and my sister and dad had a very special relationship

1754
01:40:20,360 --> 01:40:24,120
Speaker 2: with it, you know, unique and and her you know,

1755
01:40:25,160 --> 01:40:27,600
Speaker 2: she was this little girl, you know, and you know,

1756
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:32,040
Speaker 2: and uh uh, I think the connection to his own

1757
01:40:32,120 --> 01:40:35,360
Speaker 2: mother was was my sister, you know, and and who

1758
01:40:35,439 --> 01:40:37,559
Speaker 2: he dearly loved, you know. And he used to say

1759
01:40:37,600 --> 01:40:40,040
Speaker 2: that about his mom as much as his dad was

1760
01:40:40,160 --> 01:40:42,760
Speaker 2: rough on the three of them. He said, but we

1761
01:40:42,960 --> 01:40:47,800
Speaker 2: knew we were mom, mom, mother, your grandmother, Helen. She

1762
01:40:48,160 --> 01:40:50,840
Speaker 2: never let us go to bed, not thinking we were loved.

1763
01:40:51,360 --> 01:40:56,600
Speaker 2: And I said, well, good deal, good deal, you know,

1764
01:40:56,760 --> 01:41:04,120
Speaker 2: so I'm in the through line. Uh was that for

1765
01:41:04,360 --> 01:41:06,479
Speaker 2: us as kids? You know, we didn't have a lot

1766
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:08,400
Speaker 2: you know, and they were struggling, you know, week to

1767
01:41:08,479 --> 01:41:12,519
Speaker 2: week paycheck people, and uh, you know, we had had

1768
01:41:12,560 --> 01:41:14,720
Speaker 2: a double aunt and uncle. My dad's older brother was

1769
01:41:14,760 --> 01:41:17,800
Speaker 2: married to my mom's older sister. That's how they met. Wow,

1770
01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:20,719
Speaker 2: they almost became surrogate parents, for they lived very close

1771
01:41:20,760 --> 01:41:23,400
Speaker 2: and they were both they never had kids, and so

1772
01:41:23,640 --> 01:41:26,920
Speaker 2: we were there with them, very close to them. My

1773
01:41:27,080 --> 01:41:29,759
Speaker 2: dad's brother was Larry, and my mom's sister was Margaret,

1774
01:41:30,400 --> 01:41:34,320
Speaker 2: and she was about eight years old my mom and uh,

1775
01:41:35,160 --> 01:41:38,640
Speaker 2: his brother Larry was six years old. I think that

1776
01:41:38,760 --> 01:41:42,400
Speaker 2: my dad are five maybe five, but enough that there

1777
01:41:42,479 --> 01:41:44,000
Speaker 2: was a gap and it was this you know, so

1778
01:41:44,439 --> 01:41:46,479
Speaker 2: that was interesting the perspective there and you know this

1779
01:41:46,680 --> 01:41:52,599
Speaker 2: is unique. And but this back to the car ride

1780
01:41:52,760 --> 01:41:56,160
Speaker 2: and the threat of death. You know, there was two

1781
01:41:56,240 --> 01:41:59,320
Speaker 2: times in that same buick that that that Electra two

1782
01:41:59,400 --> 01:42:03,439
Speaker 2: twenty five convertible and funny what year was it? As

1783
01:42:03,479 --> 01:42:06,280
Speaker 2: a sixty five? A cool look at me white, I'm

1784
01:42:06,280 --> 01:42:09,519
Speaker 2: white on white? Right? My aunt had to talk about

1785
01:42:09,560 --> 01:42:12,320
Speaker 2: something that would be worth a lot today. My oh yeah,

1786
01:42:12,520 --> 01:42:15,360
Speaker 2: my aunt had a black on black on black and

1787
01:42:17,360 --> 01:42:19,479
Speaker 2: and then my uncle got this white on white on

1788
01:42:19,640 --> 01:42:22,360
Speaker 2: white when they went this pair of these and then

1789
01:42:22,720 --> 01:42:25,560
Speaker 2: they graduated. As I wrote, that's why my you know,

1790
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:30,280
Speaker 2: the guitars, Cadillac's reference the album title and my original

1791
01:42:30,360 --> 01:42:33,839
Speaker 2: that that second hit that I ever had about the culture,

1792
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:37,879
Speaker 2: the Hillblo culture. You made it if you had a Cadillac,

1793
01:42:38,280 --> 01:42:40,120
Speaker 2: you know, and a lot of American culture. You had

1794
01:42:40,240 --> 01:42:43,960
Speaker 2: made it if you oh where I was absolutely with

1795
01:42:44,320 --> 01:42:46,800
Speaker 2: the Goombas and everybody. If you had a Cadillac, man

1796
01:42:46,880 --> 01:42:49,120
Speaker 2: that was you know, Rolls Royce. We don't know nothing

1797
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:52,280
Speaker 2: about it, but if you had. So they graduated to

1798
01:42:52,400 --> 01:42:54,639
Speaker 2: the first Cadillact they ever bought was a sixty nine.

1799
01:42:54,720 --> 01:42:57,880
Speaker 2: That's when my mother inherited, you know, the the deuce

1800
01:42:57,920 --> 01:43:00,560
Speaker 2: in a quarter. So she was driving. We were in

1801
01:43:00,680 --> 01:43:02,880
Speaker 2: that and we had this cat that we had no

1802
01:43:03,000 --> 01:43:07,200
Speaker 2: business having cats anyway. We had the cat for about

1803
01:43:07,640 --> 01:43:10,080
Speaker 2: I don't know, nine months a year and they decided, okay,

1804
01:43:10,120 --> 01:43:11,360
Speaker 2: we're going to take it down and give it to

1805
01:43:11,920 --> 01:43:15,000
Speaker 2: you know, mother and daddy. They'll they'll, you know, they'll

1806
01:43:15,160 --> 01:43:17,960
Speaker 2: like this cat. We were taking it to Kentucky to

1807
01:43:18,040 --> 01:43:22,360
Speaker 2: the hills, right and my brother, my dad was put

1808
01:43:22,400 --> 01:43:24,439
Speaker 2: the cat. Well, they had it in a box they

1809
01:43:24,720 --> 01:43:26,960
Speaker 2: put so he would sleep you know, and he didn't

1810
01:43:27,000 --> 01:43:29,040
Speaker 2: put in a trunk with the whole air. You know.

1811
01:43:29,960 --> 01:43:34,080
Speaker 2: It was invented like a like a homemade kennel. And

1812
01:43:34,200 --> 01:43:37,160
Speaker 2: my brother insisted on Topper being in the car with

1813
01:43:37,280 --> 01:43:39,000
Speaker 2: him in the back seat with my sister brother in

1814
01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:42,719
Speaker 2: I right, And that thing was cool. It had stereo,

1815
01:43:43,600 --> 01:43:47,880
Speaker 2: but it didn't have air conditioning. Sixty file is still another. Yeah,

1816
01:43:47,880 --> 01:43:51,000
Speaker 2: it was a convertible, a luxury car, that particular one,

1817
01:43:51,160 --> 01:43:53,840
Speaker 2: the black one had air, but this one didn't have air.

1818
01:43:53,920 --> 01:43:57,200
Speaker 2: And my uncle actually had an after remember those aftermarket

1819
01:43:57,240 --> 01:43:59,000
Speaker 2: air conditionings. They would sit on the floor.

1820
01:43:59,200 --> 01:44:01,560
Speaker 1: We had one in a sixty four olds will be on.

1821
01:44:01,680 --> 01:44:03,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, they would put him in afterward. Right, the big

1822
01:44:04,040 --> 01:44:07,679
Speaker 2: bobsolutely look like a microwave ove and dinner with events,

1823
01:44:07,760 --> 01:44:12,120
Speaker 2: you know. And reverb units. My old man bought a

1824
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:16,800
Speaker 2: JC Whitney catalog reverb unit. Of course under the dash.

1825
01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:20,120
Speaker 2: It's like it's just a reverb spring. Why would you

1826
01:44:20,240 --> 01:44:22,080
Speaker 2: have it on the radio. But it had this the

1827
01:44:22,240 --> 01:44:25,559
Speaker 2: front speaker and the one in the convertible the deck,

1828
01:44:25,720 --> 01:44:27,680
Speaker 2: you know, the back seat, right, and you could have

1829
01:44:27,760 --> 01:44:31,719
Speaker 2: those two because I remember listening to such great music

1830
01:44:31,880 --> 01:44:34,160
Speaker 2: in that car and all He had a sixty four

1831
01:44:34,400 --> 01:44:39,560
Speaker 2: Ford Galaxy convertible aqua blue with a white top with

1832
01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:42,599
Speaker 2: the first glass back window I ever saw in a convertible,

1833
01:44:42,640 --> 01:44:44,519
Speaker 2: And most of them were plastic up there, and it

1834
01:44:44,600 --> 01:44:46,639
Speaker 2: came glass and it would split when they would put

1835
01:44:46,680 --> 01:44:47,280
Speaker 2: the top down.

1836
01:44:47,360 --> 01:44:47,559
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1837
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:51,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's sixty four Ford fair Lane five hundred. And

1838
01:44:51,160 --> 01:44:55,320
Speaker 2: then she had that Electra and and he was another thing.

1839
01:44:55,360 --> 01:44:58,600
Speaker 2: He was like, you know, Jack, these cars, all the

1840
01:44:58,640 --> 01:45:00,760
Speaker 2: hot riders had him raise right in the back with

1841
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:04,360
Speaker 2: the big wide old tires, and he said, you ain't

1842
01:45:04,400 --> 01:45:07,519
Speaker 2: gonna raise nothing on the old NASCAR. And he's the

1843
01:45:07,560 --> 01:45:11,240
Speaker 2: boot layer, and he said, we would put weight that

1844
01:45:11,520 --> 01:45:13,280
Speaker 2: back end to keep it on, you know, in the

1845
01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:16,880
Speaker 2: trunk his cards. They were riding like this right on

1846
01:45:17,000 --> 01:45:20,120
Speaker 2: the angle I'm doing like we're on TV, but you

1847
01:45:20,200 --> 01:45:22,640
Speaker 2: and I are look but on that angle anyway, with

1848
01:45:22,720 --> 01:45:25,960
Speaker 2: fenderskirts and all that. So we got this cat topper.

1849
01:45:26,080 --> 01:45:29,240
Speaker 2: My brother argued wanted him in the back seat, so

1850
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:32,080
Speaker 2: I watched. He said, he said, you can't open that

1851
01:45:32,320 --> 01:45:35,320
Speaker 2: box that cat, you know, leave leave them in there.

1852
01:45:36,240 --> 01:45:40,639
Speaker 2: Well we weren't. We were fifteen miles from the house

1853
01:45:41,320 --> 01:45:44,280
Speaker 2: doing a clover leave to get on the route twenty

1854
01:45:44,400 --> 01:45:48,040
Speaker 2: three and my brother reached down popped it open to

1855
01:45:48,240 --> 01:45:50,639
Speaker 2: check on him. You know, my brother was always also

1856
01:45:50,800 --> 01:45:54,599
Speaker 2: very mechanically inclined, had tools. They would drive my dad

1857
01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:57,200
Speaker 2: crazy with his tools stuff being missing, and my brother

1858
01:45:57,240 --> 01:45:59,320
Speaker 2: would be out there in the garage with him. I

1859
01:45:59,479 --> 01:46:01,000
Speaker 2: wasn't I was up in the room of the guitar

1860
01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:05,439
Speaker 2: and my brother had to look. And the cat came

1861
01:46:05,479 --> 01:46:09,360
Speaker 2: out of there straight up, hit the ceiling, ricocheted across.

1862
01:46:09,400 --> 01:46:13,320
Speaker 2: It was nuts, you know, was like wow, it went

1863
01:46:13,400 --> 01:46:16,920
Speaker 2: across the ceiling into the My dad tried to stop

1864
01:46:17,000 --> 01:46:20,400
Speaker 2: it and pin it. Now we're doing seventy miles an hour,

1865
01:46:20,640 --> 01:46:23,240
Speaker 2: you know, it's pre fifty five. You know, it's like,

1866
01:46:23,479 --> 01:46:26,120
Speaker 2: you know, the speed limits sixty five there, and people

1867
01:46:26,160 --> 01:46:29,040
Speaker 2: were driving seventy seventy five and eighty on the inn

1868
01:46:29,240 --> 01:46:32,280
Speaker 2: on the highway, and he's coming round that cliffer and

1869
01:46:32,360 --> 01:46:34,880
Speaker 2: the cat went crazy because we're doing a circle and

1870
01:46:34,960 --> 01:46:37,400
Speaker 2: that's the little cat, and he hit the front windshield

1871
01:46:37,439 --> 01:46:40,839
Speaker 2: and went across, hit my mom's side of the windshield,

1872
01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:44,120
Speaker 2: went back and hit past the three of us, and

1873
01:46:44,280 --> 01:46:46,599
Speaker 2: came back up and hit my dad and lent bit

1874
01:46:46,720 --> 01:46:49,000
Speaker 2: him in the neck. Scratched him across the face all

1875
01:46:49,080 --> 01:46:52,240
Speaker 2: the drum and I remember my dad, my dad. All

1876
01:46:52,320 --> 01:46:54,640
Speaker 2: he did was pin him with that big arm and

1877
01:46:54,720 --> 01:46:57,960
Speaker 2: he grabbed it and went bam on the dash, hit

1878
01:46:58,000 --> 01:47:02,519
Speaker 2: the windshield, pinned him. He goes, I'm good, My mother said, David.

1879
01:47:02,720 --> 01:47:05,400
Speaker 2: David slowed to kill us. He goes, I'm get in

1880
01:47:05,479 --> 01:47:08,320
Speaker 2: his car. Off the road, and he pulled over off.

1881
01:47:08,439 --> 01:47:10,000
Speaker 2: He got off the clover and got down to the

1882
01:47:10,520 --> 01:47:12,720
Speaker 2: and he grabbed that cat and had him by the

1883
01:47:13,000 --> 01:47:16,920
Speaker 2: and his cat flip, jumped out of the car, went

1884
01:47:17,040 --> 01:47:20,160
Speaker 2: back out, got the cat, threw him in the cat tails.

1885
01:47:20,200 --> 01:47:22,800
Speaker 2: There were cattails growing in the you know, against the

1886
01:47:22,880 --> 01:47:25,439
Speaker 2: side of the road, down the medium, and threw him

1887
01:47:25,479 --> 01:47:28,760
Speaker 2: into that and let the cat was out there by

1888
01:47:28,840 --> 01:47:30,920
Speaker 2: that point because he had strangled him out, you know,

1889
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:33,040
Speaker 2: get him out of the car and he had a cut,

1890
01:47:34,280 --> 01:47:36,880
Speaker 2: I mean he was and so he put him back

1891
01:47:37,000 --> 01:47:39,519
Speaker 2: one after they both coughed it out for a minute

1892
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:42,160
Speaker 2: or two, he put the cat and back in the box,

1893
01:47:42,200 --> 01:47:43,720
Speaker 2: said bring me in that box and put him in

1894
01:47:43,760 --> 01:47:45,360
Speaker 2: a trunk and we drove him on that and he

1895
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:48,439
Speaker 2: lived with him for the next ten or twelve years.

1896
01:47:48,479 --> 01:47:50,880
Speaker 2: That cat was still down there. And how he made

1897
01:47:50,920 --> 01:47:53,880
Speaker 2: it he because he cause he stayed outside, but would

1898
01:47:53,880 --> 01:47:56,599
Speaker 2: come and sit in there kitchen window on an old tree,

1899
01:47:57,400 --> 01:47:59,439
Speaker 2: uh and stare in at him, and they'd go out

1900
01:47:59,479 --> 01:48:02,519
Speaker 2: and feed him. There was a topper anyway, you were

1901
01:48:02,520 --> 01:48:03,120
Speaker 2: talking about.

1902
01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:06,439
Speaker 1: Your cat, my younger sisters. The cat went away for

1903
01:48:06,560 --> 01:48:12,439
Speaker 1: two and a half years and came back, really lived

1904
01:48:12,520 --> 01:48:13,280
Speaker 1: outside of him.

1905
01:48:13,280 --> 01:48:15,840
Speaker 2: What was going on there? Because coyotes to get him

1906
01:48:15,840 --> 01:48:17,640
Speaker 2: out here. You aren't going to live beyond you know,

1907
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:20,000
Speaker 2: cats are you know in jeopardy all.

1908
01:48:20,160 --> 01:48:22,800
Speaker 1: Somebody else obviously adopted him and then didn't feed him,

1909
01:48:23,280 --> 01:48:24,960
Speaker 1: and then he came back to your house.

1910
01:48:25,600 --> 01:48:28,599
Speaker 2: Cats and strange creatures. Kinky Friedman. I don't know if

1911
01:48:28,600 --> 01:48:31,360
Speaker 2: you've read any of his the kind of fictional little

1912
01:48:31,400 --> 01:48:34,120
Speaker 2: pulp fiction things that he wrote, kind of pretty funny,

1913
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:37,400
Speaker 2: pretty funny stuff. And his whole cat routine is his

1914
01:48:37,920 --> 01:48:39,920
Speaker 2: affection to his cats. He still has a lot of

1915
01:48:40,120 --> 01:48:43,519
Speaker 2: cats in it. And uh, you know, I was never

1916
01:48:43,600 --> 01:48:46,120
Speaker 2: a cat guy. I you know, kind of a dog.

1917
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:49,120
Speaker 1: Bunch of an animal guy. But why are you Dwight?

1918
01:48:50,520 --> 01:48:53,519
Speaker 2: My mother just loved the name people assumed, and I'm

1919
01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:56,519
Speaker 2: Dwight David, which was worse because everybody's like, oh, you

1920
01:48:56,680 --> 01:48:59,160
Speaker 2: named It was like, no, my dad's name's David. So

1921
01:48:59,320 --> 01:49:02,320
Speaker 2: she wanted to get you know, without making me a junior,

1922
01:49:02,360 --> 01:49:06,960
Speaker 2: which I appreciated that, but uh, Dwight. She just liked,

1923
01:49:07,320 --> 01:49:09,519
Speaker 2: you know, she just liked the name, and it was

1924
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:13,680
Speaker 2: it'd been not commonplace at that point, you know, and

1925
01:49:14,040 --> 01:49:18,559
Speaker 2: Eisenhower was president. But but uh uh. And then my uncle,

1926
01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:20,840
Speaker 2: her brother, the only boy in the six of them,

1927
01:49:21,479 --> 01:49:25,720
Speaker 2: he was was he three years older than Yeah, I

1928
01:49:25,720 --> 01:49:28,120
Speaker 2: think he's three years older than my mother. They were

1929
01:49:28,240 --> 01:49:31,120
Speaker 2: very close. Guy Walton, my granddad always called him peanut.

1930
01:49:31,200 --> 01:49:33,840
Speaker 2: He's a you know, old peanut. He's a pankerdons man.

1931
01:49:34,520 --> 01:49:36,880
Speaker 2: He used to look at a peanut he goes. My

1932
01:49:37,000 --> 01:49:41,040
Speaker 2: mom said, that's guy old grandfather. Daddy just always calls

1933
01:49:41,080 --> 01:49:43,679
Speaker 2: him peanut. And they were both My granddad was about

1934
01:49:43,680 --> 01:49:47,439
Speaker 2: six one or so, like he just just looks like

1935
01:49:47,680 --> 01:49:51,599
Speaker 2: what those mountain men were. And uh and my uncle

1936
01:49:51,680 --> 01:49:54,400
Speaker 2: was about six two is calling him peanut. This was

1937
01:49:54,439 --> 01:49:57,640
Speaker 2: always beyond me, but you know, as a kid and

1938
01:49:58,000 --> 01:50:01,880
Speaker 2: uh uh, he would walk up. He was a good

1939
01:50:01,960 --> 01:50:05,400
Speaker 2: basketball player and he taught me how to balance it

1940
01:50:05,479 --> 01:50:07,639
Speaker 2: on the tip of my finger, you know, spin the basketball,

1941
01:50:07,680 --> 01:50:11,599
Speaker 2: and he he never would quit call me Ike. Ike

1942
01:50:11,640 --> 01:50:15,680
Speaker 2: had nothing to do with Dwight's first name, right Ike,

1943
01:50:16,080 --> 01:50:20,479
Speaker 2: And my mom said, yeah, he just like how you doing?

1944
01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:24,080
Speaker 2: And book. My middle name was David from my dad

1945
01:50:24,360 --> 01:50:29,599
Speaker 2: and uh, and we gave Dalton our little guy. One

1946
01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:31,479
Speaker 2: of my great regrets is that he didn't get to

1947
01:50:31,560 --> 01:50:34,320
Speaker 2: meet him. Uh. His middle name is Lauren and my

1948
01:50:34,400 --> 01:50:38,280
Speaker 2: dad's middle name was Lauren. And uh, you know, so

1949
01:50:38,560 --> 01:50:40,840
Speaker 2: there's a so what have you learned?

1950
01:50:41,120 --> 01:50:42,639
Speaker 1: What have you learned from being a dad?

1951
01:50:44,400 --> 01:50:54,280
Speaker 2: Uh? Hopefully and measured amounts some selflessness, uh, some willingness

1952
01:50:54,360 --> 01:50:59,920
Speaker 2: to impatience. And I'm still learning. So I'm learning every day.

1953
01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:05,479
Speaker 2: But uh, I've learned love in a whole new way.

1954
01:51:05,840 --> 01:51:06,000
Speaker 1: You know.

1955
01:51:06,760 --> 01:51:11,479
Speaker 2: That's the thing that I think. I really I shuddered

1956
01:51:11,520 --> 01:51:13,639
Speaker 2: to think that I could have gone on through finished

1957
01:51:13,880 --> 01:51:17,000
Speaker 2: life and not experienced it. Now that I have it,

1958
01:51:17,160 --> 01:51:21,519
Speaker 2: you know that that you know, it's a I wrote

1959
01:51:21,520 --> 01:51:23,000
Speaker 2: a song. It's going to be on this new album.

1960
01:51:23,040 --> 01:51:27,200
Speaker 2: That'll that won two things with him in mind. One,

1961
01:51:27,280 --> 01:51:29,120
Speaker 2: he came into me because he's fasting with the guitar.

1962
01:51:29,120 --> 01:51:31,479
Speaker 2: Gphty makes me pulled out and he's got a little

1963
01:51:32,200 --> 01:51:34,800
Speaker 2: finder makes a Yuku lele version of the telecaster, and

1964
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:36,920
Speaker 2: he's had it since he's done. He's been on the

1965
01:51:36,960 --> 01:51:39,200
Speaker 2: side of the stage for like sixty shows over the

1966
01:51:39,280 --> 01:51:41,640
Speaker 2: last year and a half or two of mine. And

1967
01:51:42,520 --> 01:51:47,560
Speaker 2: it's been interesting to watch and his his kind of

1968
01:51:47,640 --> 01:51:56,280
Speaker 2: almost eerie understanding of the me of both of us,

1969
01:51:56,360 --> 01:51:59,960
Speaker 2: my wife Emily and his mom and me. And it's

1970
01:52:00,160 --> 01:52:02,760
Speaker 2: interesting because he's born to you know parents. I mean,

1971
01:52:02,840 --> 01:52:08,680
Speaker 2: she was thirty seven, I'm I'm so much older. And

1972
01:52:09,120 --> 01:52:11,400
Speaker 2: it's an interesting dynamic to watch him, you know. And

1973
01:52:11,560 --> 01:52:14,960
Speaker 2: and uh, but love, love is you know, the thing

1974
01:52:15,960 --> 01:52:18,679
Speaker 2: I've learned, you know, at a different level.

1975
01:52:19,360 --> 01:52:21,920
Speaker 1: You know, what about if you want to do one

1976
01:52:22,040 --> 01:52:26,320
Speaker 1: thing and the kid wants attention, I need to.

1977
01:52:26,360 --> 01:52:29,439
Speaker 2: Learn to give over. It's tough when you've been as

1978
01:52:29,520 --> 01:52:32,639
Speaker 2: solo as I've been for as long as as much

1979
01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:35,800
Speaker 2: as I love him, I have to remind myself, no,

1980
01:52:37,240 --> 01:52:40,639
Speaker 2: I owe him my attention. I owe him my attention

1981
01:52:40,800 --> 01:52:45,160
Speaker 2: because he needs it. You know, there's there's a need,

1982
01:52:45,360 --> 01:52:53,800
Speaker 2: you know. And anyway, yeah, so, but did you plan

1983
01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:56,080
Speaker 2: to have him or did you just well, we wanted,

1984
01:52:56,240 --> 01:53:02,760
Speaker 2: we wanted to and we didn't know we were, Yes,

1985
01:53:03,120 --> 01:53:06,760
Speaker 2: it was it was with you know, willingness that we did.

1986
01:53:06,960 --> 01:53:11,960
Speaker 2: You know that we uh, but enough, we didn't need help,

1987
01:53:12,760 --> 01:53:15,439
Speaker 2: just our own encouragement. And here he came.

1988
01:53:15,600 --> 01:53:18,040
Speaker 1: And then what about a second you were mentioning, Oh,

1989
01:53:18,120 --> 01:53:18,639
Speaker 1: I don't.

1990
01:53:18,479 --> 01:53:24,640
Speaker 2: Know, maybe I don't know, you know, but you know,

1991
01:53:24,800 --> 01:53:26,400
Speaker 2: I think I think it would stop there. I don't

1992
01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:28,519
Speaker 2: think I'll have a middle and they have the oldest

1993
01:53:28,560 --> 01:53:29,080
Speaker 2: and a younger.

1994
01:53:29,320 --> 01:53:32,400
Speaker 1: You know, they need each other for when you're gone

1995
01:53:32,479 --> 01:53:33,800
Speaker 1: or when you're in your old Well.

1996
01:53:33,720 --> 01:53:35,880
Speaker 2: I see that. I think so because I had and

1997
01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:38,560
Speaker 2: I see it. And of course my wife twelve, you know,

1998
01:53:38,720 --> 01:53:42,479
Speaker 2: she just doesn't know how you have only kids. Only

1999
01:53:42,600 --> 01:53:48,840
Speaker 2: kids I've known you know somew you know, uh and

2000
01:53:49,000 --> 01:53:50,679
Speaker 2: oldest kids and only kids get along.

2001
01:53:50,880 --> 01:53:51,040
Speaker 1: You know.

2002
01:53:51,240 --> 01:53:54,320
Speaker 2: Only kids tend to be very adult, you know, because

2003
01:53:54,320 --> 01:53:56,280
Speaker 2: they deal in an adult world in a different way

2004
01:53:56,360 --> 01:53:58,640
Speaker 2: than you know, those of us that had, you know,

2005
01:53:58,680 --> 01:54:01,080
Speaker 2: the siblings to fight and all with and you know,

2006
01:54:01,200 --> 01:54:05,439
Speaker 2: and engage in any kind of you know, endie or

2007
01:54:05,560 --> 01:54:07,280
Speaker 2: jealousy with you know all that.

2008
01:54:07,600 --> 01:54:11,360
Speaker 1: But ah, it's just yeah, okay, let's go back.

2009
01:54:13,400 --> 01:54:16,400
Speaker 2: Life's what goes on when you're making other plans.

2010
01:54:18,560 --> 01:54:21,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, but now it's a little bit different when your

2011
01:54:21,960 --> 01:54:23,280
Speaker 1: time is totally your own.

2012
01:54:24,960 --> 01:54:26,760
Speaker 2: You know, once you have a kid.

2013
01:54:26,880 --> 01:54:30,639
Speaker 1: I don't have any kids, so they say that you're

2014
01:54:30,680 --> 01:54:33,600
Speaker 1: a kid yourself your whole life if you don't have

2015
01:54:33,680 --> 01:54:34,160
Speaker 1: any kids.

2016
01:54:34,240 --> 01:54:36,400
Speaker 2: Well that's what it feels like now when I think

2017
01:54:36,520 --> 01:54:39,800
Speaker 2: back that I got away from being a kid. I pay.

2018
01:54:39,960 --> 01:54:42,000
Speaker 1: But now the choices are different. I mean, if you

2019
01:54:42,080 --> 01:54:45,120
Speaker 1: have a kid, you can say, well, you know, we're

2020
01:54:45,280 --> 01:54:48,360
Speaker 1: just animals. We're here to reproduce. This is what it's

2021
01:54:48,400 --> 01:54:51,800
Speaker 1: all about. When you don't have a kid, your choices

2022
01:54:51,880 --> 01:54:54,240
Speaker 1: are more important, like, well, this has got to count.

2023
01:54:54,320 --> 01:54:56,400
Speaker 1: I mean, some people are drifting. I don't want to

2024
01:54:56,480 --> 01:54:59,240
Speaker 1: judge them, but myself it's like, well, you know, I

2025
01:54:59,280 --> 01:55:01,600
Speaker 1: didn't invest in kid, I didn't invest in family, so

2026
01:55:01,800 --> 01:55:05,440
Speaker 1: my career think it's got to work because I didn't sacrifice,

2027
01:55:05,600 --> 01:55:05,760
Speaker 1: you know.

2028
01:55:07,680 --> 01:55:13,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic. And and uh, I love

2029
01:55:13,200 --> 01:55:15,760
Speaker 2: my wife even more than I loved her because she

2030
01:55:16,840 --> 01:55:19,520
Speaker 2: because of her, she gave me this. You know, it's

2031
01:55:19,600 --> 01:55:24,720
Speaker 2: just a very very unique gift that Emily brought to

2032
01:55:24,840 --> 01:55:34,000
Speaker 2: my life. Uh and uh, yeah, she never thought anything

2033
01:55:34,120 --> 01:55:37,600
Speaker 2: different than that. You know, we were we should have

2034
01:55:37,640 --> 01:55:42,640
Speaker 2: a child. And I was never opposed to having kids,

2035
01:55:42,680 --> 01:55:45,560
Speaker 2: and I always thought but again, my plan was, well,

2036
01:55:45,600 --> 01:55:49,160
Speaker 2: when I'm really feeling that I've got it, you know,

2037
01:55:49,360 --> 01:55:51,920
Speaker 2: handle and everything's in order, and you know, I've got

2038
01:55:52,040 --> 01:55:54,800
Speaker 2: this and that, and then you look around one day

2039
01:55:54,800 --> 01:55:59,000
Speaker 2: and you're like that ships sail, I guess I don't

2040
01:55:59,080 --> 01:56:01,680
Speaker 2: think that, you know, my life is good. And then

2041
01:56:01,760 --> 01:56:06,680
Speaker 2: it didn't, you know, you know, another another another horn

2042
01:56:06,800 --> 01:56:09,400
Speaker 2: was heard coming across the horizon of the of the

2043
01:56:10,480 --> 01:56:13,320
Speaker 2: you know, the ocean there and here he is. So

2044
01:56:14,160 --> 01:56:17,880
Speaker 2: it's it's but this is your this is your old

2045
01:56:18,080 --> 01:56:22,080
Speaker 2: married man. Right again, I didn't I didn't marry this

2046
01:56:22,240 --> 01:56:22,920
Speaker 2: one different.

2047
01:56:25,240 --> 01:56:26,880
Speaker 1: I've been married once before. I've been living with my

2048
01:56:26,880 --> 01:56:33,680
Speaker 1: girlfriend now, I mean you and only been married once before?

2049
01:56:33,760 --> 01:56:39,800
Speaker 2: Now, I just I just uh again, you know, had this.

2050
01:56:41,360 --> 01:56:43,880
Speaker 2: My parents divorced, but it was after we were all

2051
01:56:44,160 --> 01:56:46,920
Speaker 2: three grown. It is an interesting dynamic and they were

2052
01:56:46,960 --> 01:56:49,640
Speaker 2: together that long and and it was tough on them.

2053
01:56:49,680 --> 01:56:51,480
Speaker 2: I think it was tough with my aunt and uncle,

2054
01:56:51,720 --> 01:56:54,520
Speaker 2: you know, the older brother and said they never divorced,

2055
01:56:55,200 --> 01:57:00,240
Speaker 2: you know, and uh uh yeah, and so so I

2056
01:57:00,440 --> 01:57:07,560
Speaker 2: probably felt apprehensive about it, you know, and I just avoided.

2057
01:57:07,920 --> 01:57:11,240
Speaker 2: I just I also knew that I didn't want a

2058
01:57:11,320 --> 01:57:16,000
Speaker 2: marriage where I wouldn't be able to uphold the integrity

2059
01:57:16,120 --> 01:57:21,160
Speaker 2: of the of the promise, you know. You know, by

2060
01:57:21,200 --> 01:57:23,640
Speaker 2: the time I really started to have any success success,

2061
01:57:23,680 --> 01:57:26,440
Speaker 2: I was thirty. I was twenty nine when I signed

2062
01:57:26,480 --> 01:57:29,560
Speaker 2: with Warner and re released the EP that had been

2063
01:57:29,600 --> 01:57:32,640
Speaker 2: out about eighteen months or so. It was late twenties,

2064
01:57:33,120 --> 01:57:37,000
Speaker 2: and I thought, man, I've been broke and single all

2065
01:57:37,080 --> 01:57:39,920
Speaker 2: these this decade of my life. Maybe I should be

2066
01:57:40,760 --> 01:57:44,000
Speaker 2: not broken single for a while. And then, you know,

2067
01:57:44,240 --> 01:57:46,160
Speaker 2: life gets in your way, and you know, like I said,

2068
01:57:46,560 --> 01:57:49,320
Speaker 2: the John Lennon quote, you know, that's what happens while

2069
01:57:49,320 --> 01:57:54,440
Speaker 2: you're making other plans. And she and I met, we've

2070
01:57:54,480 --> 01:57:59,240
Speaker 2: been to we've been together actually for almost ten years

2071
01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:03,400
Speaker 2: before we got married. We've been engaged, and I know,

2072
01:58:03,480 --> 01:58:07,760
Speaker 2: I knew I wanted to marry her. And but again

2073
01:58:07,840 --> 01:58:13,360
Speaker 2: I was, you know, still trying to make things feel complete,

2074
01:58:13,960 --> 01:58:15,880
Speaker 2: you know, for lack of a better way to put it,

2075
01:58:16,400 --> 01:58:19,560
Speaker 2: you know, with my own just personal life. Believe me,

2076
01:58:19,760 --> 01:58:20,240
Speaker 2: I know that.

2077
01:58:20,560 --> 01:58:22,960
Speaker 1: I know, when you get married the first time, it's

2078
01:58:23,080 --> 01:58:25,400
Speaker 1: like yeah, And then I was a year old enough

2079
01:58:25,480 --> 01:58:27,080
Speaker 1: and you're in a position where you realize you never

2080
01:58:27,200 --> 01:58:27,920
Speaker 1: feel that no.

2081
01:58:28,080 --> 01:58:29,960
Speaker 2: You finally yeah, I tried to give over.

2082
01:58:30,440 --> 01:58:31,840
Speaker 1: So how did you and Emily meet?

2083
01:58:33,520 --> 01:58:36,600
Speaker 2: We met in Nashville. She was working two three different

2084
01:58:36,680 --> 01:58:41,000
Speaker 2: jobs she had left you know. Uh. She was raised

2085
01:58:41,040 --> 01:58:43,280
Speaker 2: in Omaha, and she came from one side of the

2086
01:58:43,320 --> 01:58:48,480
Speaker 2: family had cattle ranchers outside and well both sides of

2087
01:58:48,520 --> 01:58:51,240
Speaker 2: her parents, you know, the Joyce says her name is

2088
01:58:51,240 --> 01:58:55,200
Speaker 2: Emily Joyce as her maiden name, and she, uh, she

2089
01:58:56,240 --> 01:58:58,600
Speaker 2: grew up there and then went to creyton a on

2090
01:58:58,720 --> 01:59:01,320
Speaker 2: a full academic scholar She was a volleyball player and

2091
01:59:01,400 --> 01:59:03,480
Speaker 2: was going to own volleyball scholarship in her junior year.

2092
01:59:04,000 --> 01:59:07,440
Speaker 2: Right after the season she was a sectional player and

2093
01:59:07,520 --> 01:59:10,240
Speaker 2: there was a car accident. A drunk ran a light

2094
01:59:10,360 --> 01:59:12,560
Speaker 2: and hit she and a girlfriend. She was in the

2095
01:59:12,600 --> 01:59:16,360
Speaker 2: pastor's side, hit her in that side and destroyed a

2096
01:59:16,480 --> 01:59:20,120
Speaker 2: rotator cup. I mean, just so it ended the aspirations.

2097
01:59:20,240 --> 01:59:22,520
Speaker 2: She would have been a these five eleven. I mean,

2098
01:59:22,560 --> 01:59:24,480
Speaker 2: she was on her track to probably go to a

2099
01:59:24,600 --> 01:59:27,800
Speaker 2: Big ten school or whatever, and Creighton gave her a

2100
01:59:27,880 --> 01:59:31,360
Speaker 2: full ride to do pre med and so she graduated

2101
01:59:31,360 --> 01:59:34,720
Speaker 2: a year and she like you. She was a year ahead.

2102
01:59:34,920 --> 01:59:37,160
Speaker 2: She had done so much advanced placement and so forth,

2103
01:59:37,880 --> 01:59:40,400
Speaker 2: and she burned out finally because you know, she was

2104
01:59:40,520 --> 01:59:44,400
Speaker 2: there with family, you know, she was still being made

2105
01:59:44,480 --> 01:59:48,720
Speaker 2: to feel responsible, you know, for all those siblings under her,

2106
01:59:48,800 --> 01:59:51,240
Speaker 2: you know, the other ten beneath her. There was one

2107
01:59:51,320 --> 01:59:55,160
Speaker 2: older brother. They're twelve months apart, Irish twins that I

2108
01:59:55,200 --> 01:59:58,440
Speaker 2: think they're referred to as and that close. So her

2109
01:59:58,480 --> 02:00:03,320
Speaker 2: older brother and she and she left. She did one

2110
02:00:03,400 --> 02:00:05,600
Speaker 2: year pre med. Then she decided she could take getting

2111
02:00:05,640 --> 02:00:08,360
Speaker 2: close to patients. She was working in a hospital and

2112
02:00:09,120 --> 02:00:14,320
Speaker 2: and and studying, and then she did nursing for two

2113
02:00:14,440 --> 02:00:17,200
Speaker 2: more years. She had three years of you know, almost

2114
02:00:17,240 --> 02:00:20,120
Speaker 2: a nursing room. She left and went to Nashville, joined

2115
02:00:20,120 --> 02:00:22,400
Speaker 2: the circus and thought she'd go back to school there, didn't.

2116
02:00:23,280 --> 02:00:28,400
Speaker 2: And we met in a restaurant there, and she was

2117
02:00:28,480 --> 02:00:31,440
Speaker 2: working at one of the Cumulus stations there and radio

2118
02:00:31,640 --> 02:00:35,400
Speaker 2: like working with a radio group. And and we didn't

2119
02:00:35,440 --> 02:00:39,120
Speaker 2: meet in the station, and we kind of stayed in touch,

2120
02:00:39,400 --> 02:00:41,560
Speaker 2: you know, both of us were in all with different people.

2121
02:00:41,640 --> 02:00:46,120
Speaker 2: And then she traveled out here at one point, just

2122
02:00:46,240 --> 02:00:49,360
Speaker 2: on a brief vacation, and we saw each other out

2123
02:00:49,360 --> 02:00:51,400
Speaker 2: here and then we began she then she took a

2124
02:00:51,560 --> 02:00:55,160
Speaker 2: scholarship again at Mount Saint Mary's University, you know in

2125
02:00:55,240 --> 02:00:58,120
Speaker 2: Brentwood on top of the mountain there that'll run by

2126
02:00:58,160 --> 02:01:01,600
Speaker 2: the used to be an all girls. Uh, it's a

2127
02:01:01,640 --> 02:01:06,040
Speaker 2: Catholic university up there, but she did it. Some years

2128
02:01:06,120 --> 02:01:08,200
Speaker 2: later she picked up and then she had moved out

2129
02:01:08,200 --> 02:01:09,920
Speaker 2: here and was doing that and we began to date,

2130
02:01:10,080 --> 02:01:15,000
Speaker 2: you know that following in and and uh, uh that's

2131
02:01:15,040 --> 02:01:17,440
Speaker 2: how we you know, I met and just there was

2132
02:01:17,520 --> 02:01:21,400
Speaker 2: some soul connection, you know. At that point she's uh,

2133
02:01:22,360 --> 02:01:25,840
Speaker 2: you know, pretty, but it's beyond that. It's it's it was,

2134
02:01:26,040 --> 02:01:33,320
Speaker 2: there's beauty. Uh. And her best described by the third party.

2135
02:01:33,400 --> 02:01:35,360
Speaker 2: One night, we were coming out of a restaurant and

2136
02:01:36,240 --> 02:01:42,400
Speaker 2: and the actor Mira Sorvina's father wanted to forget his

2137
02:01:42,480 --> 02:01:48,000
Speaker 2: first name from Goodfellows to all and he just passed

2138
02:01:48,480 --> 02:01:54,600
Speaker 2: a year before last. Paul, you know, Paul Sorvino was

2139
02:01:54,680 --> 02:01:56,800
Speaker 2: there and he flagged me over and we were talking

2140
02:01:56,840 --> 02:01:58,840
Speaker 2: because he was doing a bit of opera here in

2141
02:01:58,920 --> 02:02:01,160
Speaker 2: town at the time. He's saying opera if you knew that,

2142
02:02:01,320 --> 02:02:05,040
Speaker 2: or the actor Pulserman and there was somebody else, a

2143
02:02:05,120 --> 02:02:07,240
Speaker 2: friend with us that was an actress, and she reached

2144
02:02:07,280 --> 02:02:11,160
Speaker 2: over for very you know, fused toward him and kind

2145
02:02:11,200 --> 02:02:13,880
Speaker 2: of telling him, you know, some things she was doing.

2146
02:02:14,200 --> 02:02:17,120
Speaker 2: And he looked across behind me at Emily and he said,

2147
02:02:18,600 --> 02:02:22,400
Speaker 2: you you're soulful. And I told her, I said, that's

2148
02:02:22,440 --> 02:02:25,000
Speaker 2: the best description I've ever heard of you. You know,

2149
02:02:25,360 --> 02:02:29,160
Speaker 2: there is a soulfulness. And so we met and you know,

2150
02:02:30,400 --> 02:02:34,520
Speaker 2: fell for each other and in that way, and and

2151
02:02:35,040 --> 02:02:39,920
Speaker 2: stayed with it. And I'm not easy, to say the least.

2152
02:02:40,800 --> 02:02:44,000
Speaker 1: I'm okay, Well, why are you not easy?

2153
02:02:44,280 --> 02:02:46,720
Speaker 2: Just who I am? You know, my nature and my

2154
02:02:47,720 --> 02:02:49,600
Speaker 2: my idiosyncratic nature.

2155
02:02:49,800 --> 02:02:51,720
Speaker 1: You know, well tell us a little more.

2156
02:02:51,920 --> 02:02:53,680
Speaker 2: I don't want to go into it, Bob, because that'd

2157
02:02:53,720 --> 02:02:57,120
Speaker 2: be given up too much. I can't tell you you

2158
02:02:57,200 --> 02:03:00,480
Speaker 2: already got somebody who was my idiosyncras. I mean, I

2159
02:03:00,640 --> 02:03:05,680
Speaker 2: just you know, look, I've lived alone the order of

2160
02:03:05,800 --> 02:03:08,160
Speaker 2: my how I'm a neat freak. You know. I keep

2161
02:03:08,280 --> 02:03:11,400
Speaker 2: things in, you know, like certain spots and places.

2162
02:03:11,040 --> 02:03:11,760
Speaker 3: And and.

2163
02:03:13,520 --> 02:03:19,560
Speaker 2: I'm not uh uh, I don't really have a d D.

2164
02:03:20,040 --> 02:03:24,080
Speaker 2: But I'm obsessive compulsive. Probably you know, I've got tend

2165
02:03:24,120 --> 02:03:29,880
Speaker 2: to Warren zvon. One night Billy Bob Thornton was talking

2166
02:03:29,920 --> 02:03:37,600
Speaker 2: about you know, uh O c D. And he said, yeah,

2167
02:03:37,600 --> 02:03:39,760
Speaker 2: I've got We were at a restaurant, remember Elsa Leigh

2168
02:03:39,880 --> 02:03:44,760
Speaker 2: on the Strip. Uh rest great great food and uh

2169
02:03:46,360 --> 02:03:49,560
Speaker 2: he was talking about it one night. Warrens zvone was

2170
02:03:49,600 --> 02:03:51,680
Speaker 2: a friend and and and he said, and did you

2171
02:03:51,720 --> 02:03:55,480
Speaker 2: ever meet Warren and all your I'm surprised because he

2172
02:03:56,200 --> 02:04:01,280
Speaker 2: charming guy and real rye wit obviously and were wolfs

2173
02:04:01,320 --> 02:04:03,840
Speaker 2: of London was the you know, the tip of it.

2174
02:04:03,960 --> 02:04:08,040
Speaker 2: But but you know Thompson, the headless gunner and all

2175
02:04:08,120 --> 02:04:13,680
Speaker 2: you know, you know, excitable boy, all the stuff that

2176
02:04:13,720 --> 02:04:19,600
Speaker 2: he wrote, Lawyers, guns and money. You know, We're sitting

2177
02:04:19,640 --> 02:04:22,080
Speaker 2: there and I used to say, I knew Warren post graduate.

2178
02:04:22,160 --> 02:04:23,920
Speaker 2: You know, he was settled down by the time I

2179
02:04:24,040 --> 02:04:26,280
Speaker 2: met him. He was not doing the you know, the

2180
02:04:26,600 --> 02:04:30,080
Speaker 2: Peruvian marching powder. That can't he talks about doing it

2181
02:04:30,080 --> 02:04:32,960
Speaker 2: anymore because I've heard the stories, he said. So we're

2182
02:04:33,000 --> 02:04:35,960
Speaker 2: sitting there and we're Billy's talking about obsessive compulsive you

2183
02:04:36,040 --> 02:04:38,000
Speaker 2: know stuff, and he's I got to do this, and

2184
02:04:38,080 --> 02:04:41,200
Speaker 2: he goes on and on about obsessive compulsive Billy Bob

2185
02:04:41,240 --> 02:04:43,560
Speaker 2: Thornton now disorder and he's very open about it, you know.

2186
02:04:43,640 --> 02:04:47,880
Speaker 2: He's like, and Warren's listening and just smiles. That cheshuire

2187
02:04:47,960 --> 02:04:52,520
Speaker 2: cat grinned as he's like, that's smiling is He said,

2188
02:04:52,560 --> 02:04:54,120
Speaker 2: have you ever had it with guns?

2189
02:04:55,720 --> 02:04:56,800
Speaker 1: Like what have you ever had?

2190
02:04:56,840 --> 02:05:02,840
Speaker 2: What have you ever had it with guns? And we

2191
02:05:02,960 --> 02:05:06,760
Speaker 2: both like right up, like no, I never had it

2192
02:05:06,920 --> 02:05:11,600
Speaker 2: was obsessive couples of Warrens like hmm. He just nodded

2193
02:05:11,640 --> 02:05:16,680
Speaker 2: at he would like since I know he was guilty

2194
02:05:16,720 --> 02:05:21,400
Speaker 2: of doing something up in Santa barber with guns anyway, Uh,

2195
02:05:22,440 --> 02:05:25,360
Speaker 2: the same deal when Billy was talking about that at

2196
02:05:25,400 --> 02:05:29,080
Speaker 2: the same restaurant and the guy that one of the owners, Paulo,

2197
02:05:29,440 --> 02:05:31,800
Speaker 2: who would sit and he was a little pit bowl

2198
02:05:31,880 --> 02:05:34,760
Speaker 2: from Tuscany and he but he was like sit there

2199
02:05:34,960 --> 02:05:38,600
Speaker 2: and he would smoke a cigarette holding it a lah

2200
02:05:40,080 --> 02:05:44,200
Speaker 2: you know MASTRIONI or somebody like, holding it like upside

2201
02:05:44,280 --> 02:05:47,320
Speaker 2: down with his index finger and thumb to smoke. He

2202
02:05:47,440 --> 02:05:49,640
Speaker 2: was sitting there sideways to Billy and I. He would

2203
02:05:49,680 --> 02:05:52,720
Speaker 2: just plots down in anybody's table if he knew if

2204
02:05:52,760 --> 02:05:54,200
Speaker 2: you were a regular at all, and he knew you

2205
02:05:54,800 --> 02:05:57,760
Speaker 2: and just insert himself in your dinner, you know. And

2206
02:05:58,000 --> 02:06:01,360
Speaker 2: so he goes, and Billy was saying, you know, well

2207
02:06:01,680 --> 02:06:04,520
Speaker 2: if I if I don't do this four times in

2208
02:06:04,600 --> 02:06:07,360
Speaker 2: a row, he'd chop at his thighs with his hands.

2209
02:06:07,960 --> 02:06:09,640
Speaker 2: He said. He looked at me and he said, you'll

2210
02:06:09,720 --> 02:06:11,840
Speaker 2: die in the way home. Then I said, I'll die

2211
02:06:11,920 --> 02:06:14,560
Speaker 2: if you don't do it. Why why die if you

2212
02:06:14,640 --> 02:06:16,640
Speaker 2: don't do the obsessive complete He goes, I don't know,

2213
02:06:16,920 --> 02:06:20,720
Speaker 2: but that's just how it works. And Pablo Hollow Paulo

2214
02:06:20,920 --> 02:06:23,400
Speaker 2: was sitting there with his back to us, half listening.

2215
02:06:23,480 --> 02:06:27,440
Speaker 2: He was not realizing Billy's talking about HIMSELFOD He goes, see,

2216
02:06:27,640 --> 02:06:30,680
Speaker 2: see he's stuck with a cigarette. See see is maniac?

2217
02:06:30,720 --> 02:06:34,920
Speaker 2: Who does this? Is maniac? Who was like, yeah, so

2218
02:06:35,000 --> 02:06:39,080
Speaker 2: I'm not you know, I'm not. I'm a little obsessive compulsive,

2219
02:06:39,120 --> 02:06:42,920
Speaker 2: I guess, And but I'm not really add because if

2220
02:06:42,960 --> 02:06:45,280
Speaker 2: you stay with me long enough, my tangent will come

2221
02:06:45,400 --> 02:06:48,280
Speaker 2: back around. I'll figure out Oh yeah, I got that. Yeah, yeah,

2222
02:06:48,320 --> 02:06:50,680
Speaker 2: which is that there's a difference some people assume if

2223
02:06:50,680 --> 02:06:53,600
Speaker 2: they're only with me for fifteen minutes and I'm add

2224
02:06:53,800 --> 02:06:54,840
Speaker 2: it's not that. No.

2225
02:06:55,120 --> 02:06:57,200
Speaker 1: That was the shrink when I first started to see

2226
02:06:57,240 --> 02:07:01,040
Speaker 1: the shrink. I was in a bad space, and he

2227
02:07:01,120 --> 02:07:04,480
Speaker 1: thought that I couldn't track. That's like a big things. No, no,

2228
02:07:04,600 --> 02:07:06,880
Speaker 1: that I realized it always comes back to the beginning

2229
02:07:06,920 --> 02:07:07,440
Speaker 1: of the story.

2230
02:07:07,680 --> 02:07:10,680
Speaker 2: Well, watching reading your writing, that's what was always That's

2231
02:07:10,720 --> 02:07:13,240
Speaker 2: where I'd stepped on your train years ago when I started,

2232
02:07:13,360 --> 02:07:16,160
Speaker 2: you know, reading the you know the stuff you would

2233
02:07:16,200 --> 02:07:21,000
Speaker 2: you know, your letter and uh and I was fascinated

2234
02:07:21,080 --> 02:07:23,520
Speaker 2: with and that must make it makes you a great writer,

2235
02:07:23,840 --> 02:07:25,920
Speaker 2: you know, the way you can take us on the

2236
02:07:26,080 --> 02:07:29,920
Speaker 2: journey and take the tangents and bring it back, you know.

2237
02:07:30,960 --> 02:07:34,200
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I'm a little untethered.

2238
02:07:34,840 --> 02:07:37,440
Speaker 1: Okay, well let me ask you a different question. The

2239
02:07:37,560 --> 02:07:40,000
Speaker 1: limo's there to pick you up, take you to the airport,

2240
02:07:41,480 --> 02:07:45,080
Speaker 1: limo pulls away. Do you think you are you concerned

2241
02:07:45,120 --> 02:07:46,320
Speaker 1: whether you lock the door or not.

2242
02:07:47,400 --> 02:07:51,920
Speaker 2: A little bit. I'm usually so compulsive enough that I've

2243
02:07:51,960 --> 02:07:54,480
Speaker 2: done and I have a routine like you know, touch three,

2244
02:07:54,800 --> 02:07:58,840
Speaker 2: you know, touch this, I don't do. I'm not I'm

2245
02:07:58,880 --> 02:08:03,800
Speaker 2: not quite as extreme. You know, Bill is extremely well,

2246
02:08:03,840 --> 02:08:05,240
Speaker 2: you know they can treat that now.

2247
02:08:05,840 --> 02:08:08,560
Speaker 1: And I went to a special doctor for it because

2248
02:08:08,640 --> 02:08:10,320
Speaker 1: regular talk therapy doesn't work.

2249
02:08:10,680 --> 02:08:12,200
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, I didn't know.

2250
02:08:13,360 --> 02:08:16,040
Speaker 1: No, you have to do exposures. I remember. It's like

2251
02:08:16,600 --> 02:08:18,640
Speaker 1: there are certain things to be able to let go.

2252
02:08:19,720 --> 02:08:19,880
Speaker 2: You know.

2253
02:08:20,000 --> 02:08:22,960
Speaker 1: Well, it's like, uh, if you know all the cans

2254
02:08:23,000 --> 02:08:25,240
Speaker 1: with poison on them, like don't do this, don't do

2255
02:08:25,360 --> 02:08:29,240
Speaker 1: that whatever, they'll scare me. So you work your way,

2256
02:08:29,440 --> 02:08:32,400
Speaker 1: you work your way up a ladder, just touching them

2257
02:08:32,440 --> 02:08:34,840
Speaker 1: at first. Then you get to the point where you

2258
02:08:35,120 --> 02:08:39,240
Speaker 1: use them. So it's it's an interesting thing. I mean,

2259
02:08:39,280 --> 02:08:41,920
Speaker 1: it never goes away, but you learn how to cope

2260
02:08:41,960 --> 02:08:43,400
Speaker 1: because otherwise it can torture.

2261
02:08:43,680 --> 02:08:45,680
Speaker 2: Well with Billy Boba does. That's why I know I

2262
02:08:45,720 --> 02:08:47,840
Speaker 2: don't have it as severely because I've been like what

2263
02:08:48,000 --> 02:08:51,880
Speaker 2: you're describing, and I'll turn the cans facing away. But

2264
02:08:52,040 --> 02:08:54,320
Speaker 2: that's just kind of an aesthetic thing with me. I'm

2265
02:08:54,840 --> 02:08:59,840
Speaker 2: I'm really given to do whatever you want. Yeah that's no, okay,

2266
02:09:00,200 --> 02:09:02,200
Speaker 2: So I turned the cans. But it's not OCD. It's

2267
02:09:02,240 --> 02:09:06,560
Speaker 2: it's aesthetically. It's the aesthetics, but not all. But I

2268
02:09:06,640 --> 02:09:11,560
Speaker 2: don't freak out if they're although I will move something

2269
02:09:11,600 --> 02:09:16,200
Speaker 2: on the I and I like asymmetry. I you know,

2270
02:09:16,320 --> 02:09:20,640
Speaker 2: I like things to be slightly asymmetrical, you know, just

2271
02:09:20,720 --> 02:09:23,120
Speaker 2: in a room or you know, on the angle on

2272
02:09:23,240 --> 02:09:26,240
Speaker 2: the top of a desk, and and then I but

2273
02:09:26,320 --> 02:09:28,480
Speaker 2: I let go, you know, I tend to let go

2274
02:09:28,640 --> 02:09:31,600
Speaker 2: of stuff. I mean like, there's certain spots that are

2275
02:09:31,640 --> 02:09:33,360
Speaker 2: just a mess. They're going to be a mess until

2276
02:09:33,400 --> 02:09:34,640
Speaker 2: I can get around to do it. And I don't.

2277
02:09:35,080 --> 02:09:37,760
Speaker 2: I don't, you know, I won't. People often think it's like,

2278
02:09:37,880 --> 02:09:39,800
Speaker 2: are you a hoarder. It's like, no, I don't hoard,

2279
02:09:40,280 --> 02:09:42,520
Speaker 2: because then they're shocked when I walk in and I

2280
02:09:42,600 --> 02:09:47,000
Speaker 2: have the time. I desperately feel like I need the

2281
02:09:47,160 --> 02:09:51,040
Speaker 2: time to focus, you know, and and I'll go through

2282
02:09:51,120 --> 02:09:53,400
Speaker 2: and when I clean it out, it's gone. It's like,

2283
02:09:53,480 --> 02:09:55,240
Speaker 2: get rid of that now, I don't need I haven't

2284
02:09:55,320 --> 02:09:58,760
Speaker 2: used that in five years. That is that was a dream,

2285
02:09:59,040 --> 02:10:00,760
Speaker 2: you know, I was like I was. I thought it

2286
02:10:00,880 --> 02:10:03,240
Speaker 2: was being a boy scout, you know, my holding this

2287
02:10:03,400 --> 02:10:05,040
Speaker 2: and this and this and it. So I don't I

2288
02:10:05,120 --> 02:10:06,840
Speaker 2: have bits of it. I have bits of it.

2289
02:10:07,080 --> 02:10:09,240
Speaker 1: Well, you know, not all the things. You know, you

2290
02:10:09,320 --> 02:10:12,360
Speaker 1: can have different characteristics. I do have the hoarding characteristic.

2291
02:10:14,640 --> 02:10:16,560
Speaker 2: Progress is it hoarding or just preparing?

2292
02:10:18,440 --> 02:10:22,280
Speaker 1: First and foremost? I know where everything is.

2293
02:10:22,960 --> 02:10:25,320
Speaker 2: I used to you had to give that up with

2294
02:10:25,480 --> 02:10:27,280
Speaker 2: marriage and the child.

2295
02:10:29,160 --> 02:10:33,640
Speaker 1: You know, certain things are really hard to throw out anyway. Okay,

2296
02:10:34,080 --> 02:10:34,920
Speaker 1: what books?

2297
02:10:35,680 --> 02:10:40,480
Speaker 3: Well, books especially I don't want to Well, I mean,

2298
02:10:41,120 --> 02:10:43,000
Speaker 3: not only do I have the books that I have,

2299
02:10:43,640 --> 02:10:46,560
Speaker 3: I have the books that everybody sends me like, okay, yeah,

2300
02:10:46,600 --> 02:10:51,240
Speaker 3: you must get Okay, Rick Rubin, they did that special

2301
02:10:51,640 --> 02:10:55,120
Speaker 3: with him on HBO Showtime whatever, and he bought Shangri

2302
02:10:55,240 --> 02:10:58,080
Speaker 3: Lass Studios, you know, up in Malibu, and he's got

2303
02:10:58,160 --> 02:11:01,960
Speaker 3: a library with all these books. What you learn is

2304
02:11:02,600 --> 02:11:06,640
Speaker 3: an incredible percentage of the books I have will never

2305
02:11:06,800 --> 02:11:09,600
Speaker 3: be reprinted, and no one else has these.

2306
02:11:11,080 --> 02:11:13,360
Speaker 1: So I'm saying, well, when I can reach that level,

2307
02:11:14,520 --> 02:11:17,840
Speaker 1: I'll have like the same thing drives my girlfriend nuts

2308
02:11:17,960 --> 02:11:20,560
Speaker 1: because in the garage, I got stacks and stacks of

2309
02:11:20,640 --> 02:11:24,160
Speaker 1: these books. And then as you get old, the older

2310
02:11:24,200 --> 02:11:27,960
Speaker 1: you get, everything becomes meaningless anyway. But it's like, well,

2311
02:11:28,200 --> 02:11:32,160
Speaker 1: all my vinyl records, I chose each and every one

2312
02:11:32,200 --> 02:11:36,840
Speaker 1: of those. I'm my partner with those. I say, when

2313
02:11:36,920 --> 02:11:39,920
Speaker 1: I die, do not throw those away. They're worth tens

2314
02:11:40,000 --> 02:11:42,640
Speaker 1: and tens and tens of thousands of dollars, you know,

2315
02:11:42,680 --> 02:11:46,320
Speaker 1: because they're meaningless to you know, like my girlfriend. But

2316
02:11:47,120 --> 02:11:49,400
Speaker 1: and you know she's like you in the house. It's

2317
02:11:49,520 --> 02:11:52,440
Speaker 1: like she likes order. But let me go one step further.

2318
02:11:52,680 --> 02:11:55,000
Speaker 1: Do you tend to ruminate on things?

2319
02:11:56,800 --> 02:11:59,800
Speaker 2: No, I let go. I will let go. That's that's

2320
02:11:59,840 --> 02:12:01,680
Speaker 2: a difference. You know, Like you're getting ready to get

2321
02:12:01,840 --> 02:12:04,640
Speaker 2: this at the airport, It's like, uh, and I'll just

2322
02:12:04,800 --> 02:12:07,320
Speaker 2: make a plan to avoid it the next time. If

2323
02:12:07,320 --> 02:12:10,360
Speaker 2: I've left something, you know, I'll make a you know,

2324
02:12:10,400 --> 02:12:13,600
Speaker 2: I'll do something in order of getting out that.

2325
02:12:14,120 --> 02:12:16,600
Speaker 1: I will tell you when they go for treatment, they

2326
02:12:16,680 --> 02:12:17,440
Speaker 1: get rid of all.

2327
02:12:17,440 --> 02:12:21,000
Speaker 2: That which the order of getting out of the rituals.

2328
02:12:20,560 --> 02:12:22,720
Speaker 1: You have to be able to lock the door and

2329
02:12:22,880 --> 02:12:26,040
Speaker 1: walk away. And the funny thing is you have to

2330
02:12:26,120 --> 02:12:28,640
Speaker 1: do everything three times you get to the point where

2331
02:12:28,640 --> 02:12:30,280
Speaker 1: you could do it. Because I used to be like you,

2332
02:12:30,640 --> 02:12:33,520
Speaker 1: I would hold okay, I'm gonna rush, I'm gonna hold

2333
02:12:33,600 --> 02:12:35,880
Speaker 1: the key, and I'm gonna think about it so I

2334
02:12:36,040 --> 02:12:38,520
Speaker 1: know that I can remember, well, you got it, do

2335
02:12:38,640 --> 02:12:41,920
Speaker 1: it just quickly. You know, this is a whole nother

2336
02:12:42,280 --> 02:12:43,640
Speaker 1: avenue to go down.

2337
02:12:44,200 --> 02:12:46,080
Speaker 2: I don't have as much of the ritual That's what

2338
02:12:46,160 --> 02:12:49,240
Speaker 2: I mean about Billy Bob, and what you're describing. I

2339
02:12:49,360 --> 02:12:51,600
Speaker 2: never had the ritual stuff that I had to turn

2340
02:12:51,720 --> 02:12:55,160
Speaker 2: three like stand tap tap tap and and turn or something.

2341
02:12:55,760 --> 02:13:00,680
Speaker 2: Mine was more pragmatic based, I guess me the function

2342
02:13:01,040 --> 02:13:02,360
Speaker 2: actually to some degree.

2343
02:13:02,800 --> 02:13:07,040
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the essence. Here Emily comes

2344
02:13:07,080 --> 02:13:10,280
Speaker 1: into the house and she moves something.

2345
02:13:10,440 --> 02:13:16,520
Speaker 2: Might bug me. She was great though. We had a

2346
02:13:16,600 --> 02:13:20,480
Speaker 2: housekeeper a few a couple of housekeepers back that came

2347
02:13:20,560 --> 02:13:25,320
Speaker 2: in over and she said, I watched you. We were

2348
02:13:25,400 --> 02:13:27,040
Speaker 2: walking her through and I was saying, okay, and this

2349
02:13:27,160 --> 02:13:28,600
Speaker 2: and then, but you don't need to move. You can

2350
02:13:28,680 --> 02:13:31,400
Speaker 2: dust around like there's a an athmost clock, one of

2351
02:13:31,440 --> 02:13:33,800
Speaker 2: those you know brass you know. And I said, but

2352
02:13:34,240 --> 02:13:37,040
Speaker 2: in there it's not an angle. It's not straight, okay,

2353
02:13:37,120 --> 02:13:40,480
Speaker 2: but for just the aesthetic, I just like it on

2354
02:13:40,480 --> 02:13:42,600
Speaker 2: an angle, not because I think I'm gonna if I

2355
02:13:42,680 --> 02:13:44,760
Speaker 2: don't do the angle, I'm gonna walk out. And I

2356
02:13:45,000 --> 02:13:48,560
Speaker 2: got it, I got it. It's literally what pleases me.

2357
02:13:48,680 --> 02:13:53,360
Speaker 2: The energy that almost almost the what's the Japanese the

2358
02:13:53,440 --> 02:13:59,080
Speaker 2: you know the way huh feng shui? Yeah, yeah, feng

2359
02:13:59,120 --> 02:14:04,560
Speaker 2: shui of that, so that it's almost that maybe of

2360
02:14:04,680 --> 02:14:09,280
Speaker 2: what and she watched her go over. I literally said, so, stuffs,

2361
02:14:09,320 --> 02:14:13,240
Speaker 2: didn't you just leave? I haven't placed very specifically, just

2362
02:14:13,680 --> 02:14:15,440
Speaker 2: because that's where I want it and how I like it.

2363
02:14:15,920 --> 02:14:19,280
Speaker 2: And she walked over two minutes after I had said

2364
02:14:19,320 --> 02:14:24,680
Speaker 2: that and turned that carck she goes and Emily was like,

2365
02:14:25,360 --> 02:14:28,920
Speaker 2: that's not going to go. Well, yes, we hired she

2366
02:14:29,040 --> 02:14:32,040
Speaker 2: worked for us for two years, I guess, but there

2367
02:14:32,080 --> 02:14:37,640
Speaker 2: were those moments just and because Emily's a shrewd observer

2368
02:14:38,440 --> 02:14:40,480
Speaker 2: of you know, she had to learn. You know, she

2369
02:14:40,600 --> 02:14:44,240
Speaker 2: had all these kids, she cut the um biblical court on,

2370
02:14:44,760 --> 02:14:48,320
Speaker 2: you know, her youngest brother in the hospital, you know,

2371
02:14:48,440 --> 02:14:52,240
Speaker 2: with her mom. I mean, she she was made a caretaker.

2372
02:14:52,360 --> 02:14:56,160
Speaker 2: So she's had to observe. So she's been an interesting,

2373
02:14:57,280 --> 02:15:02,000
Speaker 2: you know, observational you know, a person to have at

2374
02:15:02,080 --> 02:15:03,640
Speaker 2: close range of me.

2375
02:15:03,800 --> 02:15:06,920
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, well, usually when there's that, when

2376
02:15:06,920 --> 02:15:10,000
Speaker 1: there's that many kids, they know how to compromise. Like

2377
02:15:10,080 --> 02:15:13,440
Speaker 1: on all the reality shows they say the Mormons, you're

2378
02:15:13,440 --> 02:15:16,400
Speaker 1: not supposed to use that word anymore. The Church of

2379
02:15:16,400 --> 02:15:19,280
Speaker 1: the Latter day Saints, they say they're really Mormon.

2380
02:15:19,680 --> 02:15:21,600
Speaker 2: I didn't get the memo, man.

2381
02:15:22,080 --> 02:15:23,440
Speaker 1: Well you're getting it now.

2382
02:15:24,720 --> 02:15:27,440
Speaker 2: And why not. Why is Mormon?

2383
02:15:27,680 --> 02:15:30,120
Speaker 1: You know, I'm tuned into this only because I lived

2384
02:15:30,160 --> 02:15:33,280
Speaker 1: in Utah for two years and that was an experience.

2385
02:15:33,360 --> 02:15:37,200
Speaker 1: It's much more cosmopolitan now. But uh, there's a reason

2386
02:15:37,240 --> 02:15:37,920
Speaker 1: and I forgot it.

2387
02:15:39,120 --> 02:15:41,640
Speaker 2: WHOA, you can't leave me like that. Now, I'm gonna

2388
02:15:41,640 --> 02:15:42,960
Speaker 2: have to go look this up.

2389
02:15:43,760 --> 02:15:44,440
Speaker 1: I could look it up.

2390
02:15:44,480 --> 02:15:48,040
Speaker 2: All we're about Christ of the Latter Day saying LDS, right.

2391
02:15:48,160 --> 02:15:50,520
Speaker 1: Right, You could say, hey, they're LDS.

2392
02:15:50,800 --> 02:15:56,000
Speaker 2: But at the extremist version of no, no, oh, okay,

2393
02:15:56,520 --> 02:15:57,640
Speaker 2: I thought extremists.

2394
02:15:57,960 --> 02:16:01,880
Speaker 1: I don't even think there's a specific for the extremists, okay,

2395
02:16:02,320 --> 02:16:04,640
Speaker 1: of which I remember when I lived in Utah, we

2396
02:16:04,680 --> 02:16:08,280
Speaker 1: would go buy somebody's house where there were six front doors. Said,

2397
02:16:08,280 --> 02:16:09,720
Speaker 1: that's where the polygamists lived.

2398
02:16:09,920 --> 02:16:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, okay.

2399
02:16:12,000 --> 02:16:15,720
Speaker 1: But since she's has to get along with so many people,

2400
02:16:16,760 --> 02:16:19,200
Speaker 1: does that make it easier for her to be with you.

2401
02:16:21,160 --> 02:16:25,160
Speaker 2: Probably allowed her to put up with me. Yeah yeah,

2402
02:16:25,640 --> 02:16:26,640
Speaker 2: probably maybe.

2403
02:16:26,760 --> 02:16:30,440
Speaker 1: So Okay, someone like you who's very determined in the mediate.

2404
02:16:30,720 --> 02:16:33,240
Speaker 1: Let's say you come home and you say, you know,

2405
02:16:33,760 --> 02:16:36,000
Speaker 1: I'm going out to dinner with this person. I'm going

2406
02:16:36,040 --> 02:16:38,200
Speaker 1: to to the studio tomorrow, and then I'm going on

2407
02:16:38,240 --> 02:16:41,600
Speaker 1: the road for a week. She's gonna say that's fine,

2408
02:16:42,280 --> 02:16:43,640
Speaker 1: or why didn't you tell no?

2409
02:16:43,800 --> 02:16:46,040
Speaker 2: No, none, no, I mean she and she traveled a

2410
02:16:46,080 --> 02:16:48,200
Speaker 2: lot with me. She was shooting a lot of my

2411
02:16:49,280 --> 02:16:52,920
Speaker 2: live shows. She started shooting. She had great eyes photographer.

2412
02:16:53,560 --> 02:16:59,080
Speaker 2: She finished her undergrad degree. She completely chucked medicine anyway

2413
02:16:59,200 --> 02:17:03,320
Speaker 2: in science and ended up doing her undergrad when she

2414
02:17:03,400 --> 02:17:07,199
Speaker 2: finished her degree in history and English with a minor

2415
02:17:07,200 --> 02:17:10,560
Speaker 2: in English. And and but she had so many credits

2416
02:17:10,560 --> 02:17:13,320
Speaker 2: amassed from all of her you know, academic you know,

2417
02:17:13,680 --> 02:17:18,720
Speaker 2: uh years that she had to still put in on

2418
02:17:19,000 --> 02:17:21,760
Speaker 2: campus there at Mount Saint Mary's. And so she the

2419
02:17:21,879 --> 02:17:26,480
Speaker 2: last year studied film photography with a pretty talented you know,

2420
02:17:26,720 --> 02:17:29,920
Speaker 2: uh instructor, and she began to develop and you know,

2421
02:17:30,360 --> 02:17:34,039
Speaker 2: using film and then transcend transitioned into her digital camera.

2422
02:17:34,120 --> 02:17:38,120
Speaker 2: And uh, but you can't teach someone to have a

2423
02:17:38,200 --> 02:17:40,320
Speaker 2: good composition, law, you can't, you know what I mean,

2424
02:17:41,080 --> 02:17:43,160
Speaker 2: You know you can't teach it. You can't teach speed,

2425
02:17:43,200 --> 02:17:47,160
Speaker 2: as the old coach's you know somebody you can coach it,

2426
02:17:47,280 --> 02:17:50,240
Speaker 2: But you can't teach people to be fast, right, And

2427
02:17:51,760 --> 02:17:54,200
Speaker 2: have you watched that Reggie Jackson documentary by the way,

2428
02:17:55,280 --> 02:17:55,680
Speaker 2: I have.

2429
02:17:55,959 --> 02:17:57,840
Speaker 1: Not watched it. I'm familiar with what you're telling.

2430
02:17:57,959 --> 02:18:00,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really did. I was a bit. We were

2431
02:18:01,240 --> 02:18:03,400
Speaker 2: out on the road coming back and I but she

2432
02:18:03,680 --> 02:18:06,160
Speaker 2: traveled with me. It's it's it's a good watch. It's

2433
02:18:06,160 --> 02:18:10,480
Speaker 2: an interesting perspective on him. It's a whole different perspective

2434
02:18:10,520 --> 02:18:12,760
Speaker 2: than what you and I probably had because he was

2435
02:18:13,240 --> 02:18:16,000
Speaker 2: Reggie Jackson in capital letters right when we you know,

2436
02:18:16,760 --> 02:18:19,400
Speaker 2: from the Oakland A's to the But when you hear

2437
02:18:19,680 --> 02:18:22,320
Speaker 2: his whole when he tells it now and now, it's

2438
02:18:22,360 --> 02:18:25,200
Speaker 2: a little bit, it's just it's it's pretty touching you

2439
02:18:25,280 --> 02:18:28,080
Speaker 2: know him, you know, and where he is and and

2440
02:18:28,400 --> 02:18:35,720
Speaker 2: uh what he did and how he's anyway, because I

2441
02:18:35,800 --> 02:18:38,880
Speaker 2: was a Cincinnati Reds kid, you know, like I hated

2442
02:18:38,920 --> 02:18:41,440
Speaker 2: the Orioles, you know, and I didn't like the Dodgers.

2443
02:18:41,520 --> 02:18:44,440
Speaker 2: I still, you know, it's tough sometimes. I was at

2444
02:18:44,480 --> 02:18:45,360
Speaker 2: the game the other day.

2445
02:18:45,400 --> 02:18:47,320
Speaker 1: I saw more people in the music business than I

2446
02:18:47,400 --> 02:18:51,119
Speaker 1: do at a concert. But I am not a Dodgers fan.

2447
02:18:51,400 --> 02:18:52,000
Speaker 2: Well I was.

2448
02:18:52,160 --> 02:18:54,240
Speaker 1: I'm an American League fan, that's just the way.

2449
02:18:54,280 --> 02:18:56,680
Speaker 2: Well, I rooted for the Angels and then turned that

2450
02:18:56,800 --> 02:18:59,440
Speaker 2: Gene Autry owned him and he took me, you know,

2451
02:18:59,560 --> 02:19:02,879
Speaker 2: once my career had succeeded. He had me come down

2452
02:19:02,920 --> 02:19:04,880
Speaker 2: and sit in his box one night and he and

2453
02:19:04,920 --> 02:19:06,720
Speaker 2: they were playing the Rangers, and I said, you know,

2454
02:19:06,879 --> 02:19:10,560
Speaker 2: mister Roubrey, I said, I don't you know. Jean looked

2455
02:19:10,560 --> 02:19:12,360
Speaker 2: at me. He said, I said, I don't want to

2456
02:19:12,440 --> 02:19:16,920
Speaker 2: offend you, but I'm a huge Nolan Ryan fan. Time.

2457
02:19:16,959 --> 02:19:18,480
Speaker 2: I moved out here because I could root for you

2458
02:19:18,600 --> 02:19:21,920
Speaker 2: guys and hate the Dodgers. Still the Angels, right, and

2459
02:19:22,000 --> 02:19:25,240
Speaker 2: I loved that there were the California Angels, not anaheind angels.

2460
02:19:25,280 --> 02:19:27,840
Speaker 2: There were the Californians. So I went to He said, O,

2461
02:19:28,440 --> 02:19:30,600
Speaker 2: come on, Nolan loved to meet you. Come on, and

2462
02:19:30,640 --> 02:19:32,240
Speaker 2: he was on the bike. He wasn't pitching that day.

2463
02:19:32,280 --> 02:19:35,520
Speaker 2: He was down in the clubhouse and he was peddling

2464
02:19:35,680 --> 02:19:38,520
Speaker 2: watching the game. You know, Nolan just never get nobody

2465
02:19:38,560 --> 02:19:41,640
Speaker 2: will ever break that record, you know, of no hitters.

2466
02:19:42,480 --> 02:19:47,360
Speaker 2: But anyway, so I because being a Reds kid, you know,

2467
02:19:49,280 --> 02:19:52,119
Speaker 2: the Dodgers, it was always exotic though, because their games

2468
02:19:52,160 --> 02:19:55,760
Speaker 2: would come on out of WLW in Cincinnati at like

2469
02:19:55,879 --> 02:19:58,400
Speaker 2: eleven at night. You know, we were right and it

2470
02:19:58,520 --> 02:20:01,560
Speaker 2: was Dusty in the Palm trees and the Dodgers Stadium

2471
02:20:02,040 --> 02:20:04,240
Speaker 2: no place like it. It's one of the most beautiful

2472
02:20:04,280 --> 02:20:06,959
Speaker 2: settings ever you know up there. And that old Union

2473
02:20:07,080 --> 02:20:09,840
Speaker 2: seventy six gas station used to be in a parking

2474
02:20:09,920 --> 02:20:11,000
Speaker 2: lot right out there right.

2475
02:20:11,120 --> 02:20:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember that because we didn't have seventy

2476
02:20:13,600 --> 02:20:15,440
Speaker 1: six where I grew up, and you had to wait

2477
02:20:15,520 --> 02:20:17,640
Speaker 1: till you had to wait till the next morning to

2478
02:20:17,720 --> 02:20:18,600
Speaker 1: get the results.

2479
02:20:19,160 --> 02:20:20,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly from the West coast.

2480
02:20:21,080 --> 02:20:25,080
Speaker 1: Wait, cross was it Crossley Field with the Cincinnati.

2481
02:20:24,640 --> 02:20:27,640
Speaker 2: Reds then, Yeah, the Crawsley Field before they built Riverfront

2482
02:20:27,879 --> 02:20:31,120
Speaker 2: right by seventy when they became the big red machinery

2483
02:20:31,120 --> 02:20:34,320
Speaker 2: in the Riverfront, they were but Pete and Johnny Bench

2484
02:20:34,360 --> 02:20:36,160
Speaker 2: and all. And they came out of Crawsley Field because

2485
02:20:36,160 --> 02:20:38,400
Speaker 2: they were those guys that were coming up in the

2486
02:20:38,480 --> 02:20:41,840
Speaker 2: sixties and the Reds and brought to you a Burger

2487
02:20:41,920 --> 02:20:50,320
Speaker 2: beer down on the river anyway, So yeah, I why

2488
02:20:50,360 --> 02:20:52,280
Speaker 2: did I talk about the Dodgers and the Reds?

2489
02:20:52,320 --> 02:20:54,080
Speaker 1: You well, I remember to have to do with your

2490
02:20:54,080 --> 02:20:56,000
Speaker 1: wife and the photography. But I want to go back

2491
02:20:56,080 --> 02:20:59,840
Speaker 1: and traveling with me. Okay, I get and we let's

2492
02:21:00,600 --> 02:21:02,240
Speaker 1: why did your parents get divorced?

2493
02:21:03,879 --> 02:21:13,120
Speaker 2: I I think I think on some levels they were

2494
02:21:13,160 --> 02:21:18,920
Speaker 2: ill suited to each other. My mother was had hoped

2495
02:21:19,040 --> 02:21:23,080
Speaker 2: for I knew why she fell in love with it,

2496
02:21:23,480 --> 02:21:25,360
Speaker 2: you know, and he felt for her. He never quit,

2497
02:21:25,520 --> 02:21:28,360
Speaker 2: you know, he he was smitten when he met her,

2498
02:21:28,720 --> 02:21:32,720
Speaker 2: you know. But she wasn't prepared. She was a demure

2499
02:21:33,640 --> 02:21:37,080
Speaker 2: young girl from southeast you know, in the holler there,

2500
02:21:37,160 --> 02:21:43,520
Speaker 2: and just had not been prepared for his voisterous self,

2501
02:21:43,840 --> 02:21:49,840
Speaker 2: you know kind of and his nature. And I think

2502
02:21:51,200 --> 02:21:55,800
Speaker 2: the fears she lived with that, his Walter midyishness, you know,

2503
02:21:55,959 --> 02:21:58,480
Speaker 2: kind of the dreaming and the we're gonna you know

2504
02:21:59,280 --> 02:22:02,120
Speaker 2: it finally, you know, kind of got to her to

2505
02:22:02,200 --> 02:22:04,440
Speaker 2: the point that she couldn't. And I don't think she

2506
02:22:06,480 --> 02:22:08,000
Speaker 2: you know, he he was the one I think that

2507
02:22:08,120 --> 02:22:11,360
Speaker 2: suggested it. You know, Okay, well let's we should just

2508
02:22:11,600 --> 02:22:14,880
Speaker 2: we should split up. And my sister had gone to

2509
02:22:14,959 --> 02:22:19,600
Speaker 2: college and we were I was gone, my brother trying

2510
02:22:19,600 --> 02:22:23,400
Speaker 2: to think if he had anyway whatever, I don't think

2511
02:22:23,520 --> 02:22:30,600
Speaker 2: was at home, and uh, you know it was never.

2512
02:22:30,720 --> 02:22:32,240
Speaker 2: It wasn't a case of either of them, you know,

2513
02:22:32,520 --> 02:22:40,840
Speaker 2: one like one cheated and my dad never and uh, disillusionment,

2514
02:22:41,280 --> 02:22:43,880
Speaker 2: you know, truly, I think they just you know, and

2515
02:22:45,080 --> 02:22:49,280
Speaker 2: they had they had had to really just stay on

2516
02:22:49,600 --> 02:22:52,160
Speaker 2: top of it for so long to get us grown

2517
02:22:52,320 --> 02:22:56,320
Speaker 2: and you know out and I don't know, but I

2518
02:22:56,400 --> 02:22:59,080
Speaker 2: tried to understand, you know, for both of them. It

2519
02:22:59,200 --> 02:23:04,240
Speaker 2: was really My mother was really conflicted, you know, because

2520
02:23:04,280 --> 02:23:08,680
Speaker 2: she'd been raised to believe, you know, that you didn't divorce,

2521
02:23:09,240 --> 02:23:13,080
Speaker 2: and you know, her parents didn't divorce never, and my

2522
02:23:13,760 --> 02:23:18,039
Speaker 2: the the closest people to them, his brother, her sister,

2523
02:23:19,160 --> 02:23:21,040
Speaker 2: never divorced, you know, to the end of their you know,

2524
02:23:21,320 --> 02:23:28,400
Speaker 2: my aunt died preceded my uncle, and uh. And she

2525
02:23:28,480 --> 02:23:30,320
Speaker 2: always loved my dad, I mean, you know, to the end.

2526
02:23:30,480 --> 02:23:33,360
Speaker 2: You know. You say he was a good man, And

2527
02:23:33,440 --> 02:23:37,600
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I said, you know, and we know

2528
02:23:37,720 --> 02:23:39,720
Speaker 2: the bond if you can you imagine your parents were

2529
02:23:39,800 --> 02:23:41,840
Speaker 2: together right absolutely.

2530
02:23:41,920 --> 02:23:44,240
Speaker 1: You know, I don't come from divorce. If my ex

2531
02:23:44,320 --> 02:23:46,160
Speaker 1: wife didn't leave me, i'd still be married.

2532
02:23:46,360 --> 02:23:48,640
Speaker 2: Weirdly, it doesn't feel like I came from divorce because

2533
02:23:48,720 --> 02:23:50,920
Speaker 2: I was two years out here, you know, I was gone,

2534
02:23:51,240 --> 02:23:52,279
Speaker 2: you know, and it happened.

2535
02:23:52,640 --> 02:23:54,400
Speaker 1: I have a friend I went to college with went

2536
02:23:54,440 --> 02:23:58,440
Speaker 1: through the identical situation, and he still hasn't gotten over

2537
02:23:58,560 --> 02:24:00,879
Speaker 1: his parents before to cease now.

2538
02:24:00,840 --> 02:24:02,880
Speaker 2: But my sister had the toughest time because she had

2539
02:24:03,080 --> 02:24:07,440
Speaker 2: literally just left him and felt somewhat betrayed that she

2540
02:24:07,600 --> 02:24:10,879
Speaker 2: went to college and they you know, came back home

2541
02:24:11,040 --> 02:24:14,039
Speaker 2: there like the first you know, Christmas break or whatever.

2542
02:24:14,080 --> 02:24:16,320
Speaker 2: The that was like, what do you mean you're broken up?

2543
02:24:16,879 --> 02:24:21,080
Speaker 2: You know it happened within that window and you know

2544
02:24:21,160 --> 02:24:26,840
Speaker 2: you're you're divorcing. So yeah, but I also saw, you know,

2545
02:24:27,800 --> 02:24:30,160
Speaker 2: I saw the things that made them different in the

2546
02:24:30,240 --> 02:24:35,240
Speaker 2: struggle that they had, the arguments. Again, I didn't come

2547
02:24:35,320 --> 02:24:38,640
Speaker 2: from Knockwood. My dad never struck my mother. You know.

2548
02:24:39,520 --> 02:24:44,360
Speaker 2: One time, one time he might have threatened to spank her.

2549
02:24:45,440 --> 02:24:47,480
Speaker 2: The kids, Well you're a kid, You're like, you're gonna

2550
02:24:47,520 --> 02:24:52,040
Speaker 2: spank her. I'm gonna turn you over my neighbors. That's like,

2551
02:24:52,120 --> 02:24:55,400
Speaker 2: it's like you and it's like but that was more

2552
02:24:55,560 --> 02:24:59,360
Speaker 2: just absurd than anything that's right. But see, my mother

2553
02:24:59,640 --> 02:25:03,360
Speaker 2: worked from the time I was She stopped working for

2554
02:25:04,400 --> 02:25:11,440
Speaker 2: about three years, uh, I think post my sister's birth,

2555
02:25:12,120 --> 02:25:15,039
Speaker 2: and then went back when I was in first grade,

2556
02:25:15,160 --> 02:25:18,680
Speaker 2: I think, to work and she ran a data center.

2557
02:25:18,760 --> 02:25:21,040
Speaker 2: She'd been a typist and she knew how to type.

2558
02:25:21,120 --> 02:25:25,200
Speaker 2: She started running and doing key punch operator, right, and

2559
02:25:25,320 --> 02:25:29,360
Speaker 2: she became uh uh, she was a very smart woman.

2560
02:25:29,480 --> 02:25:32,320
Speaker 2: She became a computer operator. That was when they were

2561
02:25:32,360 --> 02:25:36,360
Speaker 2: the big old Univac. You know they were four feet

2562
02:25:36,760 --> 02:25:40,000
Speaker 2: five four and a half feet high by eight feet long,

2563
02:25:40,120 --> 02:25:41,400
Speaker 2: you know, and you fed cards.

2564
02:25:41,440 --> 02:25:41,560
Speaker 1: You know.

2565
02:25:42,120 --> 02:25:44,640
Speaker 2: That was our scratch pads at home, the left of

2566
02:25:44,640 --> 02:25:47,280
Speaker 2: her punch card, right, you know, the key punch cards.

2567
02:25:48,000 --> 02:25:51,800
Speaker 2: And uh she worked then that job for twenty five years.

2568
02:25:52,840 --> 02:25:56,720
Speaker 2: And uh uh she drove her own car. From the

2569
02:25:56,800 --> 02:25:59,360
Speaker 2: time I was a baby, she drove you know, she

2570
02:25:59,680 --> 02:26:03,080
Speaker 2: had her own she had her own credit cards. She

2571
02:26:04,400 --> 02:26:07,760
Speaker 2: come home from work, she followed sales. She knew how

2572
02:26:07,800 --> 02:26:11,000
Speaker 2: to you know, she was a very thrifty woman. She

2573
02:26:11,080 --> 02:26:14,440
Speaker 2: knew how to manage money, you know, with my dad

2574
02:26:14,680 --> 02:26:17,760
Speaker 2: on the other end, you know, been the army. Army

2575
02:26:17,800 --> 02:26:19,720
Speaker 2: took care of if you ran out, you were still

2576
02:26:19,879 --> 02:26:24,040
Speaker 2: had a place to sleep and eat. And she she

2577
02:26:25,680 --> 02:26:28,160
Speaker 2: would take us to sales at the big department store.

2578
02:26:28,200 --> 02:26:30,080
Speaker 2: There was Lazarus. You know, you go down in the

2579
02:26:30,200 --> 02:26:32,240
Speaker 2: basement sale, you know, you know what I mean. And

2580
02:26:32,400 --> 02:26:36,960
Speaker 2: it's like she that was that and I I she

2581
02:26:37,720 --> 02:26:46,320
Speaker 2: she really did, you know, uh conduct herself on an

2582
02:26:46,360 --> 02:26:48,920
Speaker 2: equal left footing with my father. You know that way

2583
02:26:49,120 --> 02:26:53,280
Speaker 2: we you know, we knew Mom would was able to

2584
02:26:53,360 --> 02:26:55,640
Speaker 2: do things on her own, you know, from the time

2585
02:26:55,680 --> 02:26:58,640
Speaker 2: I was a kid. I it probably makes me expect more,

2586
02:26:59,280 --> 02:27:02,960
Speaker 2: you know, from women than what some are raised to be.

2587
02:27:03,080 --> 02:27:07,800
Speaker 2: You know, like I like assumed, well, yeah, you can

2588
02:27:07,920 --> 02:27:10,600
Speaker 2: do all your own things. You can take your drive, yourself,

2589
02:27:11,000 --> 02:27:20,080
Speaker 2: do this, and uh yeah, so I didn't you know,

2590
02:27:21,600 --> 02:27:27,400
Speaker 2: suffer the consequence of a broken family. You know, we

2591
02:27:27,520 --> 02:27:32,160
Speaker 2: were grown and it was over, and they remained civil

2592
02:27:32,240 --> 02:27:34,560
Speaker 2: with each other, and you know, we're able to be

2593
02:27:34,640 --> 02:27:35,400
Speaker 2: around one another.

2594
02:27:35,560 --> 02:27:37,600
Speaker 1: You did either of them find someone new?

2595
02:27:38,360 --> 02:27:43,560
Speaker 2: Yeah? They both remarried and and stayed with the person

2596
02:27:43,560 --> 02:27:45,480
Speaker 2: who were married to to the end. You know. My

2597
02:27:45,840 --> 02:27:49,440
Speaker 2: mom's husband passed just about three was it four years ago?

2598
02:27:50,240 --> 02:27:52,600
Speaker 2: And he was a bit older than her. He was

2599
02:27:52,680 --> 02:27:55,560
Speaker 2: probably eight or ten maybe ten years older my mom

2600
02:27:56,400 --> 02:28:00,920
Speaker 2: and and my dad remarried and he outlived his his spouse.

2601
02:28:01,120 --> 02:28:07,240
Speaker 2: And yeah, but you know, I mean I'm fortunate. It

2602
02:28:07,440 --> 02:28:14,240
Speaker 2: lets me as an artist, I think in writing, uh

2603
02:28:15,320 --> 02:28:17,160
Speaker 2: you know, that's maybe why I'm drawing the things that

2604
02:28:18,280 --> 02:28:23,760
Speaker 2: like in film. You know, you were mentioning and writing

2605
02:28:23,800 --> 02:28:27,880
Speaker 2: about the guests that book. That's not entertainment. I've never

2606
02:28:28,120 --> 02:28:31,680
Speaker 2: liked just entertainment. I like, like, I'd rather watch a

2607
02:28:31,760 --> 02:28:35,480
Speaker 2: Robert Oltman movie. Oh yeah. If you remember when he

2608
02:28:35,560 --> 02:28:38,400
Speaker 2: got the Lifetime Achievement Academy Award at the end of

2609
02:28:38,440 --> 02:28:41,040
Speaker 2: his life, he said, Now, I know some of you

2610
02:28:41,160 --> 02:28:43,879
Speaker 2: haven't liked all the movies that I've made, he said,

2611
02:28:44,400 --> 02:28:47,640
Speaker 2: but I just asked you to keep watching. It gets better,

2612
02:28:48,760 --> 02:28:51,320
Speaker 2: meaning it's all one movie. Right. It was a brilliant

2613
02:28:51,360 --> 02:28:51,840
Speaker 2: statement of it.

2614
02:28:52,000 --> 02:28:55,480
Speaker 1: I just remember when h fuck, what was the name

2615
02:28:55,520 --> 02:28:57,920
Speaker 1: of the one with Warren Beatty shot in the Pacific

2616
02:28:58,000 --> 02:28:59,280
Speaker 1: Northwest with all the snow.

2617
02:29:00,120 --> 02:29:03,000
Speaker 2: Missus Miller. Yeah, oh, that's one of the best. And

2618
02:29:03,600 --> 02:29:06,440
Speaker 2: I heard Warren Batty didn't, I said, yeah, because he

2619
02:29:06,440 --> 02:29:09,240
Speaker 2: did not doesn't act like a movie star in it.

2620
02:29:09,840 --> 02:29:12,760
Speaker 2: He's like a real person. I care. And the compression

2621
02:29:12,840 --> 02:29:15,560
Speaker 2: of time and that and now the charge me that

2622
02:29:15,640 --> 02:29:18,120
Speaker 2: for chippies. I'm not paying that for chippies. And you know,

2623
02:29:18,440 --> 02:29:20,320
Speaker 2: the hookers he's going And.

2624
02:29:20,640 --> 02:29:23,360
Speaker 1: If a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his asshole,

2625
02:29:24,120 --> 02:29:26,560
Speaker 1: and and the and the deal and because it goes

2626
02:29:26,640 --> 02:29:30,240
Speaker 1: from you know, it's not the first time compressed time

2627
02:29:30,400 --> 02:29:32,760
Speaker 1: is being used, but it's Altman's use of it in

2628
02:29:32,840 --> 02:29:37,199
Speaker 1: that film was amazing in that you see Warren Baby

2629
02:29:37,280 --> 02:29:40,800
Speaker 1: go in to get you know, the chippies, and it

2630
02:29:40,920 --> 02:29:44,480
Speaker 1: can it comes back up like it's now the spring

2631
02:29:44,640 --> 02:29:45,280
Speaker 1: coming out of the winter.

2632
02:29:46,240 --> 02:29:49,160
Speaker 2: Seven months later and the place is built and he's gotten,

2633
02:29:49,240 --> 02:29:53,680
Speaker 2: it's working, and that always fascinated me. And even the

2634
02:29:53,760 --> 02:29:56,160
Speaker 2: scene with Keith Carrody. It's one of keys first on

2635
02:29:56,280 --> 02:29:59,440
Speaker 2: the bridge where and the guy says, oh, that's you

2636
02:29:59,560 --> 02:30:01,920
Speaker 2: got now it's a nice looking gun, and you're going,

2637
02:30:02,080 --> 02:30:04,400
Speaker 2: don't He goes, let me see that? Can you let

2638
02:30:04,440 --> 02:30:07,480
Speaker 2: me see it? Oh, you're going, don't you know? And

2639
02:30:07,720 --> 02:30:09,600
Speaker 2: because the women in the place are watching it and

2640
02:30:09,680 --> 02:30:12,840
Speaker 2: they like him, you know, he's just this young green

2641
02:30:13,120 --> 02:30:16,680
Speaker 2: cowboy that is you know, and you're going no. But

2642
02:30:16,800 --> 02:30:20,279
Speaker 2: his ability with stuff like that, you know, is always.

2643
02:30:20,680 --> 02:30:23,840
Speaker 1: Oh no, i think I've seen every close to every

2644
02:30:23,920 --> 02:30:27,360
Speaker 1: one of them, and kind of like it's very rare

2645
02:30:28,040 --> 02:30:31,879
Speaker 1: that someone can peak later in their career. But like shortcuts,

2646
02:30:31,920 --> 02:30:32,760
Speaker 1: shortcuts was.

2647
02:30:32,840 --> 02:30:38,240
Speaker 2: Great, Oh yeah, yeah again his telling of because his

2648
02:30:38,760 --> 02:30:42,000
Speaker 2: movies are about the interaction of people with each other,

2649
02:30:42,720 --> 02:30:46,320
Speaker 2: always it's not plot driven. There's a plot, and he'll

2650
02:30:46,360 --> 02:30:48,760
Speaker 2: get to it, but he's not in such a hurry,

2651
02:30:48,840 --> 02:30:51,840
Speaker 2: and he's not so overwhelming that that's the issue, because

2652
02:30:51,879 --> 02:30:56,560
Speaker 2: that's entertainment, right plot. You know, anybody can write plot,

2653
02:30:56,680 --> 02:31:00,120
Speaker 2: but not many people can write character and dial all

2654
02:31:00,240 --> 02:31:03,200
Speaker 2: the way. The other one is is even Peckingpad later

2655
02:31:03,320 --> 02:31:07,119
Speaker 2: in his life, right when he delivers the seminal Western

2656
02:31:07,200 --> 02:31:09,800
Speaker 2: is wild bunch because it takes you into and the

2657
02:31:09,879 --> 02:31:13,520
Speaker 2: way he was using slow motion, ptigraphy, the violence and

2658
02:31:13,560 --> 02:31:17,480
Speaker 2: all that. But that movie, i argue, always is much

2659
02:31:17,600 --> 02:31:21,199
Speaker 2: more with one foot still in the traditional Hollywood filmmaking

2660
02:31:21,280 --> 02:31:23,640
Speaker 2: because of the score Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid

2661
02:31:23,680 --> 02:31:26,360
Speaker 2: is the first rock and roll Western because of the

2662
02:31:26,440 --> 02:31:29,080
Speaker 2: way he scored it. Right now, I'm not having to

2663
02:31:29,200 --> 02:31:31,400
Speaker 2: dore all this stuff, you know, just all the recurring,

2664
02:31:32,560 --> 02:31:35,400
Speaker 2: the way it was done, Pat Garrett, Billy the Kid.

2665
02:31:35,440 --> 02:31:38,240
Speaker 2: But bring me the head of Alfredo Garcia is the

2666
02:31:38,320 --> 02:31:45,800
Speaker 2: one with Warren Oates going crazy, what right the hook

2667
02:31:45,879 --> 02:31:47,800
Speaker 2: or that he's in love with right and trying to

2668
02:31:47,840 --> 02:31:51,280
Speaker 2: get that head. I mean to me that you know,

2669
02:31:52,000 --> 02:31:57,240
Speaker 2: that's fascinating, and it's maybe because I didn't suffer the

2670
02:31:57,360 --> 02:32:01,880
Speaker 2: same kind of angst. I never felt fearful in our house.

2671
02:32:02,959 --> 02:32:06,440
Speaker 2: I never felt fear from the outside world. As my

2672
02:32:06,520 --> 02:32:09,880
Speaker 2: old man was, I always felt it was a protector

2673
02:32:09,959 --> 02:32:12,560
Speaker 2: from the time I was a kid. For whatever his

2674
02:32:12,720 --> 02:32:16,760
Speaker 2: flaws were, nothing that you were. It was over that

2675
02:32:16,920 --> 02:32:19,360
Speaker 2: guy's dead body. You were gonna do anything to our family,

2676
02:32:19,920 --> 02:32:20,920
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? I mean, there's a

2677
02:32:21,320 --> 02:32:25,520
Speaker 2: and I realized now and knowing friends and close people

2678
02:32:25,600 --> 02:32:28,440
Speaker 2: that are close to me that didn't grow up that

2679
02:32:28,520 --> 02:32:33,360
Speaker 2: way or suffered the under the threat of violence within

2680
02:32:33,440 --> 02:32:37,000
Speaker 2: the house outside you know, people coming into the house

2681
02:32:37,040 --> 02:32:40,200
Speaker 2: that were extended family that were violent towards you know,

2682
02:32:40,320 --> 02:32:44,520
Speaker 2: their you know them and their family. I've just experienced

2683
02:32:44,560 --> 02:32:49,080
Speaker 2: it with people and I'm like, wow, yeah, I'm lucky.

2684
02:32:49,160 --> 02:32:52,520
Speaker 2: And maybe that's what allows me to write about things

2685
02:32:52,600 --> 02:32:58,400
Speaker 2: that I you know, the sadness of some things and

2686
02:32:59,200 --> 02:33:03,840
Speaker 2: and uh, the willingness to you know, to watch it

2687
02:33:04,080 --> 02:33:08,480
Speaker 2: in film and observe it. And anyway, let's.

2688
02:33:08,320 --> 02:33:12,560
Speaker 1: Stay with Peckapah for a minute. People say movies are

2689
02:33:12,640 --> 02:33:16,240
Speaker 1: too bloody, too gory. I've never had a problem without

2690
02:33:16,280 --> 02:33:20,240
Speaker 1: it all but the only movie that pushed me over

2691
02:33:20,280 --> 02:33:23,320
Speaker 1: the line. But I sat there in the theater straw Dogs.

2692
02:33:23,760 --> 02:33:28,400
Speaker 1: WHOA remember was Susan Joya? Yeah, pretty, he's seeing those guys.

2693
02:33:28,680 --> 02:33:30,080
Speaker 1: Wow it dustn't Hoffman?

2694
02:33:30,440 --> 02:33:31,280
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah?

2695
02:33:31,520 --> 02:33:33,000
Speaker 1: Is it Dustin Hoffman or that guy?

2696
02:33:33,680 --> 02:33:35,840
Speaker 2: Is it? I have to look it up. Yeah it is.

2697
02:33:36,080 --> 02:33:38,240
Speaker 2: It's Dustin Hoffman. Is her husband? Right?

2698
02:33:38,520 --> 02:33:38,720
Speaker 1: Yeah?

2699
02:33:39,040 --> 02:33:40,920
Speaker 2: And they come in there and are they in Ironland

2700
02:33:41,000 --> 02:33:44,879
Speaker 2: or England? I can't remember where it takes place. It's

2701
02:33:44,920 --> 02:33:49,120
Speaker 2: either they're out of their cultural element and you know

2702
02:33:49,200 --> 02:33:53,240
Speaker 2: they are Americans that are there and living. Oh yeah,

2703
02:33:53,360 --> 02:33:55,920
Speaker 2: I haven't watched it in years, but it's very disturbing,

2704
02:33:56,680 --> 02:33:59,959
Speaker 2: very disturbing. More so Clwork or Clarkwork Orange has been

2705
02:34:00,040 --> 02:34:04,080
Speaker 2: a cartoon of that. This is so reality based that

2706
02:34:04,200 --> 02:34:07,480
Speaker 2: it it'll make you, you know, check, go get a

2707
02:34:07,520 --> 02:34:09,720
Speaker 2: gun exactly.

2708
02:34:10,360 --> 02:34:13,520
Speaker 1: But there's one of the scariest movies I've ever seen,

2709
02:34:14,560 --> 02:34:16,720
Speaker 1: Angel Heart. Is that the name of the book or

2710
02:34:16,720 --> 02:34:17,520
Speaker 1: the name of the movie.

2711
02:34:18,040 --> 02:34:21,400
Speaker 2: That's the movie both, I think with Mickey ro Hoffman.

2712
02:34:22,400 --> 02:34:28,440
Speaker 1: Dustin Hoffman played Louis Seiffer ship. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

2713
02:34:28,520 --> 02:34:32,640
Speaker 1: sat in New Orleans, et cetera. Wow. I even remember

2714
02:34:32,760 --> 02:34:35,840
Speaker 1: reading the book. Yeah, it was called Angel Heart. And

2715
02:34:37,560 --> 02:34:39,480
Speaker 1: I remember reading the book because I had it. Somebody

2716
02:34:39,560 --> 02:34:41,320
Speaker 1: sent it to me that even scared me.

2717
02:34:42,280 --> 02:34:48,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no, and well straw Dogs, like you said,

2718
02:34:48,840 --> 02:34:55,600
Speaker 2: is disturbing, and it's you know, I've thought about it.

2719
02:34:55,720 --> 02:35:00,160
Speaker 2: I thought, you know what, there is something and the

2720
02:35:03,240 --> 02:35:06,119
Speaker 2: safety of the life I was, you know, I lived,

2721
02:35:06,160 --> 02:35:08,760
Speaker 2: and not that we didn't have up down problems and

2722
02:35:09,520 --> 02:35:12,520
Speaker 2: you know, and my brother, you know, had his own

2723
02:35:12,600 --> 02:35:16,440
Speaker 2: issues and there was stuff, you know, even in his

2724
02:35:16,600 --> 02:35:20,200
Speaker 2: early adult life that bled over into the family of him.

2725
02:35:21,080 --> 02:35:28,200
Speaker 2: But I realize the the lack of being fearful in

2726
02:35:28,320 --> 02:35:30,200
Speaker 2: our own home that somebody else was going to come in,

2727
02:35:30,440 --> 02:35:33,720
Speaker 2: you know, and and do something to us, or be

2728
02:35:33,800 --> 02:35:36,320
Speaker 2: able to you know, have a free hand, you know,

2729
02:35:36,440 --> 02:35:40,960
Speaker 2: in coming over. And you know I didn't have to

2730
02:35:41,040 --> 02:35:42,600
Speaker 2: live with that kind of fear.

2731
02:35:43,080 --> 02:35:45,720
Speaker 1: Well, we didn't have that at all. But I think,

2732
02:35:45,760 --> 02:35:48,920
Speaker 1: you know, you're talking about being the youngest. My father

2733
02:35:49,120 --> 02:35:51,800
Speaker 1: was a guy didn't fit in and he ultimately made

2734
02:35:51,840 --> 02:35:55,760
Speaker 1: his success individually and didn't have.

2735
02:35:55,879 --> 02:35:58,440
Speaker 2: To fit in because he was the youngest of the family.

2736
02:35:59,560 --> 02:36:02,080
Speaker 1: Was he in terms of the kids he was the oldest?

2737
02:36:02,480 --> 02:36:07,440
Speaker 1: Oh okay, I mean he had a rough family. One sister,

2738
02:36:08,040 --> 02:36:11,920
Speaker 1: one brother was run over and killed in the driveway.

2739
02:36:12,000 --> 02:36:15,200
Speaker 1: Another sister committed suicide. I mean, it wasn't just your

2740
02:36:15,240 --> 02:36:23,480
Speaker 1: everyday family. But he, you know, not by today's rich standards.

2741
02:36:24,120 --> 02:36:26,760
Speaker 1: He would support you. He would buy you the sporting

2742
02:36:26,840 --> 02:36:29,680
Speaker 1: equipment and do that as long as you were geting

2743
02:36:29,680 --> 02:36:32,480
Speaker 1: good grades in school. Didn't want to hear that you

2744
02:36:32,520 --> 02:36:35,640
Speaker 1: wanted to be a professional athlete. But as long as

2745
02:36:35,680 --> 02:36:38,080
Speaker 1: you were doing this, he would do it. To the degree.

2746
02:36:38,400 --> 02:36:40,920
Speaker 1: He wasn't trying to teach us a lesson. I remember

2747
02:36:41,520 --> 02:36:43,920
Speaker 1: talking about this the other day, but I was ten.

2748
02:36:44,720 --> 02:36:48,920
Speaker 1: My father bought me golf clubs. Almost no clubs in

2749
02:36:49,000 --> 02:36:54,760
Speaker 1: the There was a driver three five seven, three five

2750
02:36:54,840 --> 02:36:58,680
Speaker 1: seven and a putter. Everybody in the community went berserk.

2751
02:36:59,000 --> 02:37:01,600
Speaker 1: He's too young, I mean we just played the public course.

2752
02:37:01,800 --> 02:37:04,119
Speaker 1: He's the young to have alc golf clubs within a year.

2753
02:37:04,640 --> 02:37:07,520
Speaker 1: All their kids had much better golf sets than I did,

2754
02:37:08,080 --> 02:37:10,880
Speaker 1: you know, but he was one. He didn't give a

2755
02:37:10,920 --> 02:37:12,920
Speaker 1: shit what anybody else thought.

2756
02:37:13,120 --> 02:37:14,959
Speaker 2: I mean, my father made a.

2757
02:37:15,000 --> 02:37:18,400
Speaker 1: Living speaking his truth. And I guess, you know, you

2758
02:37:18,520 --> 02:37:20,720
Speaker 1: get old, you think you're so different from people, and

2759
02:37:20,800 --> 02:37:22,320
Speaker 1: you find out you're the same. I guess, you know,

2760
02:37:22,480 --> 02:37:25,640
Speaker 1: there's some lessons I got from him, same thing.

2761
02:37:26,040 --> 02:37:29,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking your truth. I don't think you'd be accused

2762
02:37:29,959 --> 02:37:31,440
Speaker 2: of not right.

2763
02:37:31,480 --> 02:37:33,360
Speaker 1: But I really don't know any other way. I mean

2764
02:37:33,800 --> 02:37:36,000
Speaker 1: I tried to be the other way where you know,

2765
02:37:36,480 --> 02:37:40,040
Speaker 1: kissed but played politics. And you know, it's funny. I

2766
02:37:40,120 --> 02:37:43,400
Speaker 1: had a dream about this just the other night. You know,

2767
02:37:43,720 --> 02:37:45,600
Speaker 1: they said, how can you say this? You know, you

2768
02:37:45,720 --> 02:37:49,400
Speaker 1: gotta be ostracized. Most people learn to be a member

2769
02:37:49,440 --> 02:37:51,760
Speaker 1: of the group. That's not what my father taught me.

2770
02:37:52,280 --> 02:37:54,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, he stay an outsider.

2771
02:37:55,560 --> 02:38:01,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you were, you were successful. Classic thing is

2772
02:38:01,520 --> 02:38:05,120
Speaker 1: people buy their parents a house or something. To what

2773
02:38:05,400 --> 02:38:09,040
Speaker 1: degree did you buy your parents and your sister and

2774
02:38:09,160 --> 02:38:10,280
Speaker 1: brother on the payroll?

2775
02:38:10,959 --> 02:38:13,600
Speaker 2: No, I didn't. I didn't do that. Didn't have to,

2776
02:38:13,879 --> 02:38:15,959
Speaker 2: Thank goodness, it didn't. I mean, you know, they both

2777
02:38:16,959 --> 02:38:20,040
Speaker 2: had their lives that were you know, okay. But I

2778
02:38:20,160 --> 02:38:22,080
Speaker 2: was able to retire my mom early, you know, let

2779
02:38:22,120 --> 02:38:25,959
Speaker 2: her after twenty five years instead of working another five

2780
02:38:26,160 --> 02:38:30,680
Speaker 2: or eight or you know whatever. And that much I

2781
02:38:30,840 --> 02:38:35,320
Speaker 2: was able to do was help her retire early, earlier,

2782
02:38:36,680 --> 02:38:40,240
Speaker 2: and you know, being able to give them things, you know,

2783
02:38:40,280 --> 02:38:44,080
Speaker 2: over the years, you know, gifts and stuff, but but

2784
02:38:44,280 --> 02:38:47,640
Speaker 2: never really And then I was able to help my

2785
02:38:47,760 --> 02:38:50,040
Speaker 2: dad and his wife, you know, a similar kind of thing,

2786
02:38:50,200 --> 02:38:53,400
Speaker 2: just you know, help help them, you know along. You know.

2787
02:38:53,520 --> 02:38:56,720
Speaker 2: So that was a benefit of the success, a great

2788
02:38:56,800 --> 02:38:59,360
Speaker 2: benefit of success. But as I always felt like I

2789
02:38:59,560 --> 02:39:05,520
Speaker 2: owed because that guitar he ended up for several years

2790
02:39:05,920 --> 02:39:08,119
Speaker 2: having to do piece meal when we go hunting, rabbit

2791
02:39:08,200 --> 02:39:10,440
Speaker 2: hunting or whatever. He always had kind of a bowl

2792
02:39:10,520 --> 02:39:14,800
Speaker 2: that he ended up with, not great shotguns. And uh,

2793
02:39:15,760 --> 02:39:19,039
Speaker 2: because I found out years later that that that guitar

2794
02:39:19,200 --> 02:39:21,360
Speaker 2: I wanted so desperately eight years old, I wanted a

2795
02:39:21,400 --> 02:39:26,160
Speaker 2: real guitar. He hocked a great shotgun that he had

2796
02:39:26,640 --> 02:39:32,600
Speaker 2: and actually just sold it to you know, have the

2797
02:39:32,680 --> 02:39:35,879
Speaker 2: money to buy that guitar that Christmas. So I owe

2798
02:39:35,920 --> 02:39:39,120
Speaker 2: them a debt of gratitude. But I felt like, look,

2799
02:39:40,320 --> 02:39:42,280
Speaker 2: you know, and I think that kids that are able

2800
02:39:42,320 --> 02:39:45,280
Speaker 2: to get back to their parents, it's a gift to

2801
02:39:45,400 --> 02:39:49,040
Speaker 2: the kid for me. Anything that I was able to

2802
02:39:49,080 --> 02:39:51,160
Speaker 2: do for them, I thought was a gift because, like

2803
02:39:51,240 --> 02:39:54,400
Speaker 2: I said, I was lucky. And I realized how lucky

2804
02:39:54,480 --> 02:39:59,920
Speaker 2: now when I meet some you know, friends and here

2805
02:40:00,200 --> 02:40:05,080
Speaker 2: of their life with parents that were less than mature

2806
02:40:05,160 --> 02:40:08,680
Speaker 2: about love, you know what I mean? Love, I believe me.

2807
02:40:08,760 --> 02:40:11,960
Speaker 2: We're talking about love. The sacrifice they'll make for love,

2808
02:40:12,520 --> 02:40:15,080
Speaker 2: you know, nothing else that they'll give up their own

2809
02:40:15,160 --> 02:40:19,280
Speaker 2: selfishness for love. And my mother had that and women,

2810
02:40:19,640 --> 02:40:22,400
Speaker 2: you know, the mothers do you know, for the most part.

2811
02:40:24,360 --> 02:40:28,400
Speaker 2: Obviously there are nominlies and exceptions to everything, the rules

2812
02:40:28,440 --> 02:40:31,160
Speaker 2: that that is. But guys, we have to learn what

2813
02:40:31,360 --> 02:40:33,920
Speaker 2: we tend to be selfish, you know, all right, you know,

2814
02:40:34,840 --> 02:40:42,720
Speaker 2: and and but selflessness is there when if you've got

2815
02:40:42,800 --> 02:40:45,360
Speaker 2: it in you, it comes out when they you know,

2816
02:40:45,440 --> 02:40:48,760
Speaker 2: they look up at you, and like you said, you

2817
02:40:48,959 --> 02:40:52,480
Speaker 2: learn a different love. And that's that's selfless love, you know,

2818
02:40:53,200 --> 02:40:57,840
Speaker 2: with a child. And that's what I felt. Look, I've

2819
02:40:57,920 --> 02:41:00,160
Speaker 2: read enough of you. With your mom, you would do

2820
02:41:00,440 --> 02:41:03,400
Speaker 2: small things, whether you didn't necessarily buy you didn't have to,

2821
02:41:03,879 --> 02:41:06,880
Speaker 2: you know, buy her house. I didn't have to with

2822
02:41:07,080 --> 02:41:09,800
Speaker 2: my mother and her husband were okay, you know, they

2823
02:41:09,840 --> 02:41:14,840
Speaker 2: were uh and and uh. She was always very cautious,

2824
02:41:14,959 --> 02:41:17,680
Speaker 2: you know, with with her money. I would you know,

2825
02:41:17,800 --> 02:41:20,120
Speaker 2: I had a little bit of it. I mean, you know,

2826
02:41:20,520 --> 02:41:23,840
Speaker 2: at least save some you know, had some you know,

2827
02:41:23,920 --> 02:41:26,320
Speaker 2: underneath the stereo or something in my room. I was

2828
02:41:26,400 --> 02:41:33,720
Speaker 2: getting paper route or whatever. And you know, yeah, I

2829
02:41:33,800 --> 02:41:36,959
Speaker 2: mean you've talked about even taking your mom to dinner

2830
02:41:37,040 --> 02:41:38,600
Speaker 2: right now, you know, and just things that you're able

2831
02:41:38,640 --> 02:41:39,680
Speaker 2: to do well.

2832
02:41:39,800 --> 02:41:43,320
Speaker 1: My mother, I mean, I'm going to talk about my mother.

2833
02:41:43,480 --> 02:41:46,840
Speaker 1: My mother was the inspir Like if I wanted to

2834
02:41:46,879 --> 02:41:48,880
Speaker 1: go to a movie, or I wanted to go to

2835
02:41:49,000 --> 02:41:51,039
Speaker 1: a play, or I wanted to go to a concert,

2836
02:41:51,600 --> 02:41:55,400
Speaker 1: unlimited money for that. If you wanted to buy an

2837
02:41:55,440 --> 02:41:58,680
Speaker 1: item whatever, that was a whole different thing, okay.

2838
02:41:58,600 --> 02:42:05,400
Speaker 2: But to engage in and art, art, watching art, you participating.

2839
02:42:05,480 --> 02:42:07,200
Speaker 1: I mean my mother once I remember my mother tell

2840
02:42:07,240 --> 02:42:09,000
Speaker 1: me is hey, Country, Joe and the Fish are going

2841
02:42:09,080 --> 02:42:12,880
Speaker 1: to be a new haven. It's like, okay, you know,

2842
02:42:13,240 --> 02:42:15,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go whereas he said, you know, give me

2843
02:42:16,040 --> 02:42:18,880
Speaker 1: some money to go hang with my buds. No, but

2844
02:42:20,240 --> 02:42:22,760
Speaker 1: she would encourage you, and then if you got really

2845
02:42:22,920 --> 02:42:26,320
Speaker 1: into it, she would push back and.

2846
02:42:28,200 --> 02:42:29,800
Speaker 2: You know, ha ha.

2847
02:42:30,680 --> 02:42:32,440
Speaker 1: And I told some of these stories before, but my

2848
02:42:32,640 --> 02:42:35,640
Speaker 1: one of my favorite stories. In the earlier part of

2849
02:42:35,680 --> 02:42:39,600
Speaker 1: this century, basically everybody had a computer, even your parents,

2850
02:42:39,680 --> 02:42:42,039
Speaker 1: because if they are well whatever, So you send email

2851
02:42:42,080 --> 02:42:46,440
Speaker 1: to your parents and I forward, like, you know, sometime

2852
02:42:46,560 --> 02:42:49,880
Speaker 1: two thousand and four or three whatever. I forwarded an

2853
02:42:49,920 --> 02:42:56,040
Speaker 1: email from Quincy Jones and I never heard anything. So

2854
02:42:56,120 --> 02:42:58,000
Speaker 1: the next time I spoke with my mother, I said,

2855
02:42:58,879 --> 02:43:00,400
Speaker 1: you know, you know I sent you email.

2856
02:43:00,600 --> 02:43:01,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know.

2857
02:43:01,720 --> 02:43:02,280
Speaker 1: Did you read it?

2858
02:43:02,360 --> 02:43:02,560
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2859
02:43:02,680 --> 02:43:05,200
Speaker 1: I redreamail, you know the one, Yeah, Quincy Jones, Yeah,

2860
02:43:05,280 --> 02:43:08,720
Speaker 1: I read. Well, you weren't impressive with Quincy Jones whatever,

2861
02:43:08,760 --> 02:43:14,360
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. I said, Quincy Jones, you mean the

2862
02:43:14,520 --> 02:43:17,200
Speaker 1: artist I figured with somebody the same same name. How

2863
02:43:17,240 --> 02:43:19,000
Speaker 1: would you know Quincy Jones?

2864
02:43:21,240 --> 02:43:25,360
Speaker 2: You mean the artist she figured?

2865
02:43:25,400 --> 02:43:26,480
Speaker 1: You know, she would put you down?

2866
02:43:26,560 --> 02:43:26,920
Speaker 2: Who are you?

2867
02:43:27,160 --> 02:43:28,040
Speaker 1: How would you know that?

2868
02:43:28,120 --> 02:43:35,160
Speaker 2: Would you? Bob? No, Quincy Jones. That's hilarious? Yeah, no,

2869
02:43:35,320 --> 02:43:39,720
Speaker 2: I you know. Yeah. The dynamic with with family is

2870
02:43:40,000 --> 02:43:45,000
Speaker 2: is interesting. I mean, fortunately they were they never traded

2871
02:43:45,080 --> 02:43:48,080
Speaker 2: on it, you know, when it, you know, the success happened.

2872
02:43:49,040 --> 02:43:56,600
Speaker 2: They they what's going on? Oh, somebody overheard as I

2873
02:43:56,680 --> 02:43:59,920
Speaker 2: heard somebody outside repeating what you said. They're they're hearing

2874
02:44:00,160 --> 02:44:03,080
Speaker 2: another speaker, and they were laughing about the fact that

2875
02:44:03,160 --> 02:44:09,680
Speaker 2: your mother was shocked, you know, Quinn. They yeah, so

2876
02:44:10,240 --> 02:44:11,400
Speaker 2: you know, knock Wood.

2877
02:44:13,400 --> 02:44:16,720
Speaker 1: Sings. How'd your siblings cope with your level of success?

2878
02:44:17,720 --> 02:44:21,720
Speaker 2: Really well, really well? Actually, I mean they they didn't again,

2879
02:44:22,520 --> 02:44:24,720
Speaker 2: didn't expect much. I mean I would. My brother had

2880
02:44:24,760 --> 02:44:27,360
Speaker 2: a bit of a struggle, you know, and life, and

2881
02:44:27,480 --> 02:44:30,720
Speaker 2: he helped my sister and I enormously. He went down

2882
02:44:30,760 --> 02:44:33,840
Speaker 2: and took care of my father when my father had dementia.

2883
02:44:33,920 --> 02:44:37,440
Speaker 2: He didn't have Alzheimer's thinking he had an arterial dementia.

2884
02:44:37,480 --> 02:44:39,800
Speaker 2: In the last couple of years with life and my brother,

2885
02:44:40,320 --> 02:44:42,200
Speaker 2: he had gone through a divorce and it was kind

2886
02:44:42,200 --> 02:44:45,960
Speaker 2: of in a different space. He moved there and stayed,

2887
02:44:46,200 --> 02:44:49,880
Speaker 2: you know, and stayed the course with him and and actually,

2888
02:44:50,120 --> 02:44:52,800
Speaker 2: you know, witnessed he was in an assisted you know,

2889
02:44:53,040 --> 02:44:55,080
Speaker 2: a place where my brother would go every day, you know,

2890
02:44:55,280 --> 02:44:57,360
Speaker 2: take him wherever he needed to go and do whatever.

2891
02:44:58,000 --> 02:45:00,920
Speaker 2: And for him, that was one of the greatest gifts

2892
02:45:00,959 --> 02:45:02,760
Speaker 2: he could give my sister and I. You know that

2893
02:45:02,879 --> 02:45:05,720
Speaker 2: he did that, that he did that for my dad.

2894
02:45:06,760 --> 02:45:08,680
Speaker 2: I loved him even deeper than I did, you know,

2895
02:45:09,840 --> 02:45:14,160
Speaker 2: my brother, I loved him, but but you know, it

2896
02:45:14,560 --> 02:45:20,640
Speaker 2: really played on him hard. He We think he casually

2897
02:45:20,720 --> 02:45:23,840
Speaker 2: of that first year of COVID he passed young. I

2898
02:45:24,000 --> 02:45:30,080
Speaker 2: think sixty two, wow, no, sixty what even was sixty one?

2899
02:45:31,160 --> 02:45:34,199
Speaker 2: And we think now that he may have had Louis

2900
02:45:34,280 --> 02:45:37,320
Speaker 2: body dimension, which is what Robin Williams was diagnosed with

2901
02:45:37,440 --> 02:45:39,840
Speaker 2: after the fact, because they don't know what and they

2902
02:45:39,920 --> 02:45:43,840
Speaker 2: start having And my brother had been at close range

2903
02:45:43,959 --> 02:45:47,879
Speaker 2: watching dementia take my dad and it was tough on him,

2904
02:45:48,040 --> 02:45:51,480
Speaker 2: and so I was, you know, but I was able

2905
02:45:51,520 --> 02:45:54,160
Speaker 2: to you know, help him by helping us and let him,

2906
02:45:54,240 --> 02:45:57,520
Speaker 2: you know, do that. And but no, they never expect that.

2907
02:45:57,600 --> 02:46:00,680
Speaker 2: They'd never tapped me, you know. I mean I've been

2908
02:46:00,720 --> 02:46:04,240
Speaker 2: able to do things with and for them and with them,

2909
02:46:05,080 --> 02:46:11,640
Speaker 2: but you know, uh, now, there was no no house

2910
02:46:11,720 --> 02:46:13,879
Speaker 2: buying or things like that. I was, you know, I've

2911
02:46:13,959 --> 02:46:16,840
Speaker 2: done some bit of lavish gift giving and over over

2912
02:46:16,959 --> 02:46:19,560
Speaker 2: time and and I did, you know, end up with

2913
02:46:19,600 --> 02:46:21,640
Speaker 2: a plane. One of the ways my brother built some

2914
02:46:22,240 --> 02:46:25,520
Speaker 2: multi time we have because I loved flying and I

2915
02:46:25,600 --> 02:46:29,160
Speaker 2: couldn't do it, and I bought a small twin engine jet,

2916
02:46:29,720 --> 02:46:31,800
Speaker 2: not jet, but a plane, and he flew and then

2917
02:46:31,840 --> 02:46:34,600
Speaker 2: he built his time and he on his own and

2918
02:46:34,720 --> 02:46:37,920
Speaker 2: he started doing you know, flying and jet flying and

2919
02:46:38,000 --> 02:46:41,680
Speaker 2: so forth, and doing it with first you know, carrying

2920
02:46:42,800 --> 02:46:45,960
Speaker 2: uh overnight banking, you know, back in the even the

2921
02:46:46,080 --> 02:46:48,400
Speaker 2: early night. They were still it was paper. They had

2922
02:46:48,440 --> 02:46:50,840
Speaker 2: to move it overnight. And that's one of the ways

2923
02:46:50,920 --> 02:46:53,879
Speaker 2: these guys will build enormous amounts of hours and flying

2924
02:46:54,520 --> 02:46:58,760
Speaker 2: is they'll they'll hire on to uh, you know, check flying.

2925
02:46:59,560 --> 02:47:01,480
Speaker 2: And he did that for you know, a couple of

2926
02:47:01,560 --> 02:47:09,440
Speaker 2: three years, you know, flew charter anyway. But yeah, so no,

2927
02:47:09,600 --> 02:47:16,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, you know, not having to struggle

2928
02:47:17,200 --> 02:47:24,480
Speaker 2: with the function of life allowed me the luxury of

2929
02:47:24,600 --> 02:47:31,960
Speaker 2: being able to explore within myself whatever I needed to do,

2930
02:47:32,080 --> 02:47:35,000
Speaker 2: you know, I mean saying, it's like I'm not having

2931
02:47:35,040 --> 02:47:38,080
Speaker 2: to put myself back together, you know. And I didn't.

2932
02:47:38,160 --> 02:47:42,600
Speaker 2: I never never drank. I just I was raised, like

2933
02:47:42,720 --> 02:47:45,720
Speaker 2: I said, in a very absent environment, you know, until

2934
02:47:45,760 --> 02:47:47,680
Speaker 2: I was an adult. And by the time I got there,

2935
02:47:47,760 --> 02:47:50,120
Speaker 2: I almost kissed. Like I'm like, and I've watched it

2936
02:47:50,240 --> 02:47:53,640
Speaker 2: all you have, but at close range bars and I've

2937
02:47:53,680 --> 02:47:57,320
Speaker 2: seen professionals, I know, you know, and just it never

2938
02:47:57,520 --> 02:48:02,920
Speaker 2: because I had an event horizon that I kept staring at.

2939
02:48:03,120 --> 02:48:04,880
Speaker 2: I thought, I need to you know, I need to

2940
02:48:04,920 --> 02:48:08,960
Speaker 2: be awake and alert and sober, and I need to

2941
02:48:09,800 --> 02:48:12,840
Speaker 2: know what the hell I'm doing, you know, And I

2942
02:48:12,959 --> 02:48:17,920
Speaker 2: don't want they just never It's just not my nature

2943
02:48:17,959 --> 02:48:22,119
Speaker 2: to want to to come in. My old man smoked

2944
02:48:22,120 --> 02:48:25,039
Speaker 2: cigarettes and never never because of my throat. I didn't

2945
02:48:25,080 --> 02:48:29,080
Speaker 2: want to wreck you know. Weird early on, I knew

2946
02:48:29,160 --> 02:48:31,400
Speaker 2: from an early age I wanted to do this. I

2947
02:48:31,520 --> 02:48:34,480
Speaker 2: wanted to sing, and I thought I may I may

2948
02:48:34,520 --> 02:48:36,840
Speaker 2: be able to do this, you know. And and.

2949
02:48:38,520 --> 02:48:43,720
Speaker 1: I just, uh, well, tell me about I know you

2950
02:48:43,760 --> 02:48:45,879
Speaker 1: didn't want to abuse yourself, But tell me about knowing

2951
02:48:46,000 --> 02:48:47,040
Speaker 1: that you wanted to do this.

2952
02:48:49,360 --> 02:48:54,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just from my earliest memories. And it's strange.

2953
02:48:54,320 --> 02:48:57,760
Speaker 2: I see it in my little one. He it's almost

2954
02:48:57,840 --> 02:49:03,480
Speaker 2: a knowing about like he knows, you know. And it's

2955
02:49:03,879 --> 02:49:06,520
Speaker 2: my wife observes it in a different way because for me,

2956
02:49:06,680 --> 02:49:10,119
Speaker 2: it just reminds me of like, oh, yeah, I remember feeling,

2957
02:49:10,840 --> 02:49:13,959
Speaker 2: you know that I can do this, I could make people.

2958
02:49:15,320 --> 02:49:23,119
Speaker 2: Uh it's just yeah, I I And again, you can't

2959
02:49:23,200 --> 02:49:26,840
Speaker 2: teach it, and you have to have an experience along

2960
02:49:26,959 --> 02:49:29,520
Speaker 2: the way that lets you confirm if you've got any

2961
02:49:29,640 --> 02:49:31,800
Speaker 2: level of intelligence. I think you have to. You want

2962
02:49:31,920 --> 02:49:35,480
Speaker 2: to make sure you're not just delusional, right, So you've

2963
02:49:35,480 --> 02:49:38,320
Speaker 2: got to do it outside. Two things can happen at home.

2964
02:49:38,400 --> 02:49:40,360
Speaker 2: You need to be on the coffee table, and you're just,

2965
02:49:40,640 --> 02:49:43,800
Speaker 2: you know, the precocious little darling that you know they're

2966
02:49:43,840 --> 02:49:46,160
Speaker 2: going to dote over whether you're any good or not,

2967
02:49:47,000 --> 02:49:49,800
Speaker 2: or you can get the tall poppy cut down right.

2968
02:49:49,879 --> 02:49:53,400
Speaker 2: You know, I've seen both in families mine would you

2969
02:49:53,440 --> 02:49:55,480
Speaker 2: would it was not either, you know, they weren't just

2970
02:49:55,680 --> 02:49:59,760
Speaker 2: indulging me. But they knew when I came down with

2971
02:49:59,840 --> 02:50:03,720
Speaker 2: that concoction of a song about Vietnam, that there was

2972
02:50:03,840 --> 02:50:06,280
Speaker 2: something up. They didn't know what because they didn't know.

2973
02:50:06,520 --> 02:50:09,320
Speaker 2: You know, there are people they're so far removed from

2974
02:50:09,360 --> 02:50:12,240
Speaker 2: show business, you know, they don't know anybody that's even

2975
02:50:12,280 --> 02:50:17,200
Speaker 2: got a cousin that you know, did anything at the

2976
02:50:17,280 --> 02:50:21,000
Speaker 2: local radio or television station. So I was left to

2977
02:50:21,080 --> 02:50:23,080
Speaker 2: my own devices. And then by the time I got

2978
02:50:23,840 --> 02:50:26,560
Speaker 2: junior high, the first two years of my junior high

2979
02:50:26,680 --> 02:50:29,120
Speaker 2: was at a school. It wasn't middle schools junior high,

2980
02:50:29,120 --> 02:50:32,720
Speaker 2: but they the freshman class had been It was a

2981
02:50:32,800 --> 02:50:35,440
Speaker 2: new area that been built and we'd moved to this

2982
02:50:35,959 --> 02:50:41,160
Speaker 2: track home out there, and the high school had freshman

2983
02:50:41,200 --> 02:50:44,600
Speaker 2: through senior and so my junior high only had a

2984
02:50:45,959 --> 02:50:49,760
Speaker 2: seventh and eighth grade and in my freshman year, my

2985
02:50:49,920 --> 02:50:53,120
Speaker 2: ninth grade year was at that junior high and in

2986
02:50:53,320 --> 02:50:56,720
Speaker 2: that year, my former eighth grade history teacher, because they

2987
02:50:56,879 --> 02:51:04,600
Speaker 2: added the third class of students, he started a drama program.

2988
02:51:04,920 --> 02:51:07,120
Speaker 2: He started teaching you could take a drama class, and

2989
02:51:07,840 --> 02:51:09,840
Speaker 2: so he started putting up one act plays and I

2990
02:51:10,640 --> 02:51:13,720
Speaker 2: walked in and was able to be cast like I

2991
02:51:13,920 --> 02:51:17,560
Speaker 2: was good. I used to be doing the reading and

2992
02:51:17,920 --> 02:51:20,720
Speaker 2: he cast me, and I did a couple of these plays,

2993
02:51:21,120 --> 02:51:23,880
Speaker 2: and then I started doing it in high school. There

2994
02:51:23,959 --> 02:51:26,920
Speaker 2: was a great theater department there and a fellow named

2995
02:51:27,000 --> 02:51:32,199
Speaker 2: Chuck Lewis who was the theater teacher at that high school,

2996
02:51:32,760 --> 02:51:36,400
Speaker 2: who ran a summerstock company, weather Vane Playoffs is saying

2997
02:51:36,400 --> 02:51:40,040
Speaker 2: at Newark, Ohio. So he brought a certain level of

2998
02:51:40,120 --> 02:51:43,760
Speaker 2: professional expectation to how the stage was going to be around,

2999
02:51:43,800 --> 02:51:46,480
Speaker 2: how you were supposed to behave. So I got exposed

3000
02:51:46,560 --> 02:51:48,520
Speaker 2: to that in there, and I was always in band

3001
02:51:48,600 --> 02:51:51,280
Speaker 2: to march. I was trying to play football that was

3002
02:51:51,760 --> 02:51:53,400
Speaker 2: all of one hundred and thirty five pounds when I

3003
02:51:53,400 --> 02:51:55,120
Speaker 2: was a sophomore in high school and we had an

3004
02:51:55,160 --> 02:51:57,280
Speaker 2: all city team. I mean, it was like getting knocked

3005
02:51:57,320 --> 02:52:00,760
Speaker 2: around like a rag doll. And so by my sophomore year.

3006
02:52:00,800 --> 02:52:04,520
Speaker 2: I stopped after my sophomore year, I and it was

3007
02:52:04,680 --> 02:52:08,080
Speaker 2: became marched, one of the two based drums in marching band.

3008
02:52:08,160 --> 02:52:14,200
Speaker 2: My letter jacket is banned. That's funny enough, ironically. And

3009
02:52:15,280 --> 02:52:17,640
Speaker 2: we had a great marching band and had an instrumental

3010
02:52:17,720 --> 02:52:20,520
Speaker 2: drum band, you know, pro a stage band. I played drums,

3011
02:52:20,680 --> 02:52:26,440
Speaker 2: not well, but and the theater department and every other

3012
02:52:26,600 --> 02:52:29,520
Speaker 2: year they would do this combined variety show, you know,

3013
02:52:29,640 --> 02:52:31,840
Speaker 2: And I was back to what I was going to say.

3014
02:52:31,879 --> 02:52:37,120
Speaker 2: One day, the theater teacher in the junior high it

3015
02:52:37,240 --> 02:52:39,560
Speaker 2: was stubborn, gave me a ride home, give me a

3016
02:52:39,600 --> 02:52:43,240
Speaker 2: left home and from something we're doing. I don't know

3017
02:52:43,320 --> 02:52:47,800
Speaker 2: if it was a rehearsal or whatever. And he pulled

3018
02:52:47,840 --> 02:52:49,720
Speaker 2: on the driveway and he said, you know, I don't

3019
02:52:49,800 --> 02:52:52,120
Speaker 2: know what your parents do for a living or how

3020
02:52:52,800 --> 02:52:56,000
Speaker 2: they are. I said, but I don't know how to say.

3021
02:52:56,280 --> 02:53:01,360
Speaker 2: I think, if you want to, you could make a

3022
02:53:01,440 --> 02:53:05,199
Speaker 2: living doing this. And I was kind of like taking

3023
02:53:05,240 --> 02:53:08,240
Speaker 2: aback a little bit. I said, mean make a living

3024
02:53:08,440 --> 02:53:12,080
Speaker 2: doing what you meant, no performing, you know what you

3025
02:53:12,280 --> 02:53:15,280
Speaker 2: do in in what we're doing in plays, And so

3026
02:53:15,879 --> 02:53:17,360
Speaker 2: he said, I'm not sure how to tell you how

3027
02:53:17,400 --> 02:53:20,440
Speaker 2: to do it, you know, because it's a history teacher.

3028
02:53:21,640 --> 02:53:24,280
Speaker 2: But that moment, you know, there's a moment that someone

3029
02:53:25,560 --> 02:53:29,280
Speaker 2: gives you confirmation a third party who's not your parent,

3030
02:53:29,400 --> 02:53:32,680
Speaker 2: not your aunt, uncle, no relative. At that moment, I

3031
02:53:33,360 --> 02:53:42,680
Speaker 2: and again, I'm just obstinately, obstinately optimistic enough, maybe egotistical

3032
02:53:42,840 --> 02:53:47,360
Speaker 2: enough to use that as a handhold, you know. That

3033
02:53:47,520 --> 02:53:51,320
Speaker 2: was the next And then in that high school theater department,

3034
02:53:51,360 --> 02:53:54,720
Speaker 2: I started doing plays very immediately. And in my junior year,

3035
02:53:55,640 --> 02:53:57,280
Speaker 2: I haping to be walking down the hall and heard

3036
02:53:57,560 --> 02:54:01,040
Speaker 2: part of the stage band guys trying to do some

3037
02:54:02,920 --> 02:54:07,040
Speaker 2: in some fashion rockabilly and the drum major from the

3038
02:54:07,160 --> 02:54:08,960
Speaker 2: marching band and he was a trumpet player in stage

3039
02:54:09,000 --> 02:54:12,640
Speaker 2: man was attempting to be the singer and it was awful.

3040
02:54:13,200 --> 02:54:15,360
Speaker 2: I heard it outside the band and I walked in

3041
02:54:15,440 --> 02:54:18,080
Speaker 2: and said, well, you guys doing and they said, well,

3042
02:54:18,120 --> 02:54:19,840
Speaker 2: you know we're gonna do it for the show because

3043
02:54:19,879 --> 02:54:21,880
Speaker 2: I was gonna host it with this other guy. We

3044
02:54:21,959 --> 02:54:24,760
Speaker 2: were doing a Smothers Brothers stick, you know, and he

3045
02:54:24,840 --> 02:54:27,120
Speaker 2: had an upright bass and I was playing guitar. I

3046
02:54:27,160 --> 02:54:30,560
Speaker 2: remember I performed Loud and Wainwrights hit Dead Skunk, in

3047
02:54:30,600 --> 02:54:33,320
Speaker 2: the middle of the road during that, which was a

3048
02:54:33,840 --> 02:54:38,760
Speaker 2: brilliant song. Actually, so on crossing the highway late last night,

3049
02:54:38,840 --> 02:54:40,440
Speaker 2: he should have looked left and he should have looked

3050
02:54:40,520 --> 02:54:44,720
Speaker 2: right right, didn't see the station flagging, cars got squashed

3051
02:54:44,800 --> 02:54:46,920
Speaker 2: and there you are. You got a dead skunk in

3052
02:54:47,040 --> 02:54:50,720
Speaker 2: the middle again. You talking about post hippie them kind

3053
02:54:50,760 --> 02:54:54,360
Speaker 2: of weird, oh yeah, weird song world. You know, it

3054
02:54:54,560 --> 02:54:57,080
Speaker 2: was there by then, you know, nineteen seventy three, right

3055
02:54:57,480 --> 02:55:01,920
Speaker 2: right and h So I was doing that and they

3056
02:55:02,000 --> 02:55:04,200
Speaker 2: knew and they said, well, we're you know, doing this

3057
02:55:04,480 --> 02:55:08,039
Speaker 2: kind of like you know Seannan I kind of, I said, well,

3058
02:55:08,320 --> 02:55:11,039
Speaker 2: he said, but yeah, but he's not, you know, I said,

3059
02:55:11,040 --> 02:55:12,720
Speaker 2: you mean like that. I took the mind and they

3060
02:55:12,760 --> 02:55:15,560
Speaker 2: started playing whatever, and I started singing. And they didn't

3061
02:55:15,600 --> 02:55:17,080
Speaker 2: know I sang, because this was the stuff I did

3062
02:55:17,120 --> 02:55:19,840
Speaker 2: at home. You know, I wasn't in chorus or choir,

3063
02:55:20,000 --> 02:55:24,080
Speaker 2: I mean some perfunctory one course, you know, I whatever

3064
02:55:24,200 --> 02:55:27,920
Speaker 2: vocal music as an elective, but nobody knew I sang.

3065
02:55:28,120 --> 02:55:31,720
Speaker 2: And in fact, the theater folks for my sophomore year

3066
02:55:32,879 --> 02:55:37,720
Speaker 2: thought that I couldn't sing at all because I did

3067
02:55:37,760 --> 02:55:39,840
Speaker 2: a play Miracle Worker, right, you know, that was the

3068
02:55:39,920 --> 02:55:41,680
Speaker 2: kind of you know, and I was playing the younger

3069
02:55:41,760 --> 02:55:44,039
Speaker 2: brother and he had to sing Buffalo Gallantry. I never

3070
02:55:44,120 --> 02:55:47,920
Speaker 2: heard the song, so they and I couldn't. I was

3071
02:55:48,000 --> 02:55:51,480
Speaker 2: like in the theater and started directing. It was like

3072
02:55:52,120 --> 02:55:55,400
Speaker 2: he said, it's They hollered it out to me from

3073
02:55:55,480 --> 02:55:58,160
Speaker 2: the seats, you know, rehearsal one day and like hollering.

3074
02:55:58,240 --> 02:56:00,720
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I don't know. I think so

3075
02:56:00,840 --> 02:56:03,040
Speaker 2: it was this you know, kind of weak performance of

3076
02:56:03,120 --> 02:56:05,440
Speaker 2: that that I did during the play. So they were

3077
02:56:05,520 --> 02:56:07,720
Speaker 2: stunned when they saw me come out with this band

3078
02:56:08,400 --> 02:56:11,080
Speaker 2: and take over that show and kind of have that

3079
02:56:11,320 --> 02:56:15,959
Speaker 2: moment and it's and it's it's that weird seminal kind

3080
02:56:16,000 --> 02:56:19,440
Speaker 2: of thing, and there were girls went crazy and we

3081
02:56:19,480 --> 02:56:22,560
Speaker 2: were you know, it was like this nutty moment and

3082
02:56:22,720 --> 02:56:26,520
Speaker 2: you kind of again a confirmation of something. And it

3083
02:56:26,680 --> 02:56:29,959
Speaker 2: probably did more to wreck any kind of academic pursuit

3084
02:56:30,040 --> 02:56:33,360
Speaker 2: that I would have ever had, you know, because because

3085
02:56:33,520 --> 02:56:35,200
Speaker 2: and now in the back of my head, and I

3086
02:56:35,280 --> 02:56:37,960
Speaker 2: had that band and we started playing at other schools

3087
02:56:38,000 --> 02:56:41,080
Speaker 2: you know that wanted to have throwback sock hops and

3088
02:56:41,200 --> 02:56:44,120
Speaker 2: you know that kind of stuff. And I mean I

3089
02:56:44,160 --> 02:56:46,600
Speaker 2: had like a Golden may suit done after that, and

3090
02:56:47,080 --> 02:56:48,640
Speaker 2: it was ridiculous, but.

3091
02:56:48,680 --> 02:56:48,920
Speaker 1: It was this.

3092
02:56:49,080 --> 02:56:51,040
Speaker 2: It was rockable because I was showing them. I so like, well,

3093
02:56:51,080 --> 02:56:53,480
Speaker 2: what about this the Everly Brothers and Buddy Holly stuff

3094
02:56:53,680 --> 02:56:57,000
Speaker 2: which had more hellbilly to it. And I didn't really

3095
02:56:57,200 --> 02:57:01,560
Speaker 2: delve into that aspect of what I was going to

3096
02:57:01,600 --> 02:57:04,880
Speaker 2: do till I started writing right at my senior year

3097
02:57:04,879 --> 02:57:08,240
Speaker 2: of high school and writing stuff to sing. You know,

3098
02:57:08,520 --> 02:57:11,039
Speaker 2: I wrote something called Lovely Brown, and I wrote something

3099
02:57:11,080 --> 02:57:16,960
Speaker 2: else called Anyway. And after moving out here to the

3100
02:57:17,000 --> 02:57:20,040
Speaker 2: West Coast, because by then I knew because that was

3101
02:57:20,080 --> 02:57:22,600
Speaker 2: in those years where the transition was happening. You know,

3102
02:57:22,760 --> 02:57:24,600
Speaker 2: the whole thing with the Bakersfield be is I told

3103
02:57:24,640 --> 02:57:30,720
Speaker 2: you is about how the California sound springs forward from

3104
02:57:30,800 --> 02:57:33,640
Speaker 2: the Tom Jod wrote, you know, from the Great Sarathia,

3105
02:57:34,160 --> 02:57:36,840
Speaker 2: when Buck and Merle's family end up out here in

3106
02:57:37,040 --> 02:57:42,600
Speaker 2: labor camps, right and they bring that music from Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas,

3107
02:57:43,240 --> 02:57:46,800
Speaker 2: the dust Bowl to the West Coast. And then there

3108
02:57:46,800 --> 02:57:49,400
Speaker 2: are those that preceded the Maddox Brothers and Rose all

3109
02:57:49,480 --> 02:57:52,880
Speaker 2: that stuff, Woody Guthrie alllet But then by the fifties,

3110
02:57:53,200 --> 02:57:56,760
Speaker 2: late fifties, Buck starts to have the sixties in the sixties,

3111
02:57:56,879 --> 02:57:59,760
Speaker 2: Mrle and Chris Hillman and I have talked about it.

3112
02:58:00,320 --> 02:58:04,040
Speaker 2: He was this West Coast mandolin playing kid who loved

3113
02:58:04,040 --> 02:58:08,360
Speaker 2: bluegrass music right late fifties, early sixties and ends up

3114
02:58:09,320 --> 02:58:13,760
Speaker 2: by default the bass player for the Birds. Because I'm

3115
02:58:13,800 --> 02:58:15,640
Speaker 2: trying to remember the name of the guy that produced

3116
02:58:15,720 --> 02:58:18,200
Speaker 2: and put that together. But Tickner, I think was his

3117
02:58:18,320 --> 02:58:22,440
Speaker 2: last name. He knew Chris from the bluegrass band that

3118
02:58:22,480 --> 02:58:25,920
Speaker 2: he'd been in and had recorded him and said, hey,

3119
02:58:27,480 --> 02:58:31,400
Speaker 2: I think it was Jeane Clark first, and then Jim

3120
02:58:31,520 --> 02:58:35,120
Speaker 2: mgwin at the Troubadour put themselves together, right, And so

3121
02:58:35,440 --> 02:58:40,119
Speaker 2: all that was going on in my late adolescent early teens,

3122
02:58:40,640 --> 02:58:43,520
Speaker 2: and I started hearing it, and it was the hidden

3123
02:58:43,600 --> 02:58:46,560
Speaker 2: part of my culture right that I couldn't have much

3124
02:58:46,600 --> 02:58:49,200
Speaker 2: affinity with with those kids at that high school in Columbus,

3125
02:58:49,640 --> 02:58:53,920
Speaker 2: they didn't understand what I listened to at home. Like

3126
02:58:54,080 --> 02:58:57,800
Speaker 2: my best friend across the street in that track house

3127
02:58:58,760 --> 02:59:02,520
Speaker 2: world that we were. Now, his mother was from South Carolina,

3128
02:59:02,600 --> 02:59:04,520
Speaker 2: but he didn't grow up with that same kind of

3129
02:59:04,640 --> 02:59:08,320
Speaker 2: hillbil edge, but he watched me listen to Stonewall Jackson Records.

3130
02:59:08,440 --> 02:59:12,200
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, fourteen fifteen years old I've Got

3131
02:59:12,280 --> 02:59:15,240
Speaker 2: Life to Go, which is written by George Jones. That

3132
02:59:15,360 --> 02:59:18,680
Speaker 2: song is I've been in here eighteen years and still

3133
02:59:18,760 --> 02:59:21,040
Speaker 2: got life to go. He talks about his family left.

3134
02:59:21,120 --> 02:59:24,960
Speaker 2: Its brilliant, brilliant song. George Jones wrote it. Stonewall Jackson

3135
02:59:25,520 --> 02:59:28,600
Speaker 2: had a country hit with it. But my dad had

3136
02:59:28,640 --> 02:59:32,680
Speaker 2: bought that album as an apology to my mother. It's

3137
02:59:32,760 --> 02:59:35,520
Speaker 2: called Don't Be Angry with Me. It was the hit

3138
02:59:35,720 --> 02:59:39,280
Speaker 2: off of it, Don't Be Angry with Me, darling h

3139
02:59:39,520 --> 02:59:43,640
Speaker 2: I fail to understand all your little because they'd had

3140
02:59:43,680 --> 02:59:46,640
Speaker 2: an argument. That's his way of he brought this album

3141
02:59:46,720 --> 02:59:50,960
Speaker 2: home to her to apologize. So I was listening to

3142
02:59:51,160 --> 02:59:53,920
Speaker 2: all the other stuff on that record. Johnny Horton. My

3143
02:59:54,040 --> 02:59:57,120
Speaker 2: mother was in the Columbia Record Club. The only thing

3144
02:59:57,360 --> 03:00:01,040
Speaker 2: that she ever regretted being in there was when she

3145
03:00:01,400 --> 03:00:03,240
Speaker 2: ordered because she was a big fan of Herbalbert and

3146
03:00:03,320 --> 03:00:06,320
Speaker 2: Tijuana Brass, and got the Whipped Cream album and my

3147
03:00:06,440 --> 03:00:08,840
Speaker 2: brother and I got it first at like nine or

3148
03:00:09,000 --> 03:00:12,640
Speaker 2: ten years old. I think it was eleven, which was

3149
03:00:12,720 --> 03:00:15,720
Speaker 2: even more dangerous space. I always look at that album

3150
03:00:15,840 --> 03:00:19,800
Speaker 2: cover and she forever regretted that she ordered that album,

3151
03:00:19,800 --> 03:00:22,680
Speaker 2: although she loved the music on it. But so I

3152
03:00:22,800 --> 03:00:25,560
Speaker 2: was listening, but my dad had and like I said,

3153
03:00:25,879 --> 03:00:28,080
Speaker 2: the Johnny cashed up. But she had the Johnny Horton

3154
03:00:28,800 --> 03:00:33,280
Speaker 2: stuff that had whispering pines. You know, of course the

3155
03:00:33,400 --> 03:00:37,160
Speaker 2: hits Bismarck and all that north to Alaska. But the

3156
03:00:37,320 --> 03:00:39,240
Speaker 2: other one that I clung to. I was playing it

3157
03:00:39,320 --> 03:00:42,280
Speaker 2: in clubs after I was out here in southern California.

3158
03:00:42,280 --> 03:00:45,360
Speaker 2: I would do when it's springtime in Alaska, it's forty below,

3159
03:00:45,560 --> 03:00:48,880
Speaker 2: you know. Just I mean all that they didn't know

3160
03:00:48,920 --> 03:00:51,640
Speaker 2: about my peers, they wouldn't understand.

3161
03:00:52,280 --> 03:00:52,440
Speaker 1: You know.

3162
03:00:53,040 --> 03:00:55,039
Speaker 2: I had a cousin, Mike Christian. He played a bit

3163
03:00:55,080 --> 03:00:57,720
Speaker 2: of guitar, and he got it because his family were

3164
03:00:57,760 --> 03:01:01,720
Speaker 2: the same hillbilly transplants, but not many did. So it

3165
03:01:01,840 --> 03:01:03,920
Speaker 2: was a kind of a hidden part of me. But

3166
03:01:04,080 --> 03:01:07,080
Speaker 2: what country rock happening did. And I've said that the

3167
03:01:07,120 --> 03:01:09,800
Speaker 2: Brito Brothers were the most famous band that nobody ever heard,

3168
03:01:10,520 --> 03:01:15,080
Speaker 2: you know, their reputation preceded him and out out distanced

3169
03:01:15,120 --> 03:01:19,000
Speaker 2: there the reality right of their records, And Chris and

3170
03:01:19,040 --> 03:01:22,199
Speaker 2: I talked about that, and I knew of Graham Parsons

3171
03:01:22,240 --> 03:01:25,320
Speaker 2: out of that moment and him being these long haired

3172
03:01:25,400 --> 03:01:29,640
Speaker 2: kind of hippie cowboy, you know, guys doing this thing,

3173
03:01:29,760 --> 03:01:33,440
Speaker 2: and Mike Nessmuth from the Monkeys was doing it, you know.

3174
03:01:33,480 --> 03:01:36,400
Speaker 2: And then when he post Monkeys formed the first national band,

3175
03:01:36,600 --> 03:01:39,959
Speaker 2: right and did Joe Anne and standing in the lonely

3176
03:01:40,080 --> 03:01:46,080
Speaker 2: light of the silver move all that, you know, and

3177
03:01:46,280 --> 03:01:49,360
Speaker 2: I was like, you know what maybe country music and

3178
03:01:49,440 --> 03:01:52,120
Speaker 2: the thing Brian and Hearn did with Emmy Lou Harris,

3179
03:01:53,000 --> 03:01:56,959
Speaker 2: and she gives that credit to Brian that after Graham died,

3180
03:01:57,040 --> 03:01:59,240
Speaker 2: she went back into the folk scene, back to d C,

3181
03:01:59,560 --> 03:02:03,400
Speaker 2: you know, and kind of, you know, just in shock

3182
03:02:03,560 --> 03:02:06,840
Speaker 2: and and I think in a moment of depression back there,

3183
03:02:07,280 --> 03:02:10,480
Speaker 2: and I think it was I can't remember Mary Martin,

3184
03:02:11,480 --> 03:02:17,000
Speaker 2: that from the record label that showed Emmy and gave

3185
03:02:17,080 --> 03:02:21,080
Speaker 2: demos of Emmy's stuff to Brian, and Brian had a

3186
03:02:21,160 --> 03:02:22,880
Speaker 2: deal with Warner and he moved her out here and

3187
03:02:22,959 --> 03:02:25,560
Speaker 2: he put the band together, the first hot band, and

3188
03:02:25,760 --> 03:02:28,120
Speaker 2: more so than the Linda Ronstats because the first couple

3189
03:02:28,120 --> 03:02:30,440
Speaker 2: of Londa Ronstadt appems I was a huge fan of too.

3190
03:02:30,840 --> 03:02:33,040
Speaker 2: And then Peter Asher came aboard and they kind of

3191
03:02:33,080 --> 03:02:35,760
Speaker 2: moved it into the pop I can as you know,

3192
03:02:35,840 --> 03:02:41,080
Speaker 2: the iconography that became her sound, you know. And then

3193
03:02:41,240 --> 03:02:44,240
Speaker 2: of course the Begat and Begat was you know, you

3194
03:02:44,400 --> 03:02:46,520
Speaker 2: got the birds and all that stuff. The Sweetheart of

3195
03:02:46,560 --> 03:02:48,520
Speaker 2: the Rodeo album that happened. But I didn't have it

3196
03:02:48,560 --> 03:02:51,080
Speaker 2: because they am an older sibling to direct me there.

3197
03:02:51,120 --> 03:02:52,960
Speaker 2: You know. It wasn't the hits. I just had what

3198
03:02:53,080 --> 03:02:57,880
Speaker 2: I could find on my own. But I felt inside

3199
03:02:57,959 --> 03:03:03,520
Speaker 2: and creating scle Revival was, yeah, there were. John was

3200
03:03:03,600 --> 03:03:05,840
Speaker 2: a hero of mine just because of what he was

3201
03:03:06,000 --> 03:03:09,520
Speaker 2: doing musically, and as I grew to know what it

3202
03:03:09,760 --> 03:03:13,480
Speaker 2: was later he's writing the songs, playing the lead guitar,

3203
03:03:13,600 --> 03:03:16,160
Speaker 2: producing the records really you know, and control, you know.

3204
03:03:16,640 --> 03:03:20,400
Speaker 2: And then he did that Blue Ridge Ranger solo excursion

3205
03:03:20,440 --> 03:03:24,520
Speaker 2: they did after it, and he took again, and there

3206
03:03:24,640 --> 03:03:28,600
Speaker 2: became this pertinence of country music having its moment again.

3207
03:03:29,440 --> 03:03:33,400
Speaker 2: So I realized because I had an epiphany one day

3208
03:03:33,440 --> 03:03:35,560
Speaker 2: when I was the last trip I ever took with

3209
03:03:35,640 --> 03:03:40,800
Speaker 2: my aunt and my mother, when I was still just

3210
03:03:40,920 --> 03:03:47,920
Speaker 2: in to Kentucky. We sorry bumpedo that mike with the

3211
03:03:48,040 --> 03:03:51,760
Speaker 2: last trip I took with them, my aunt's Cadillac, my

3212
03:03:51,920 --> 03:03:53,800
Speaker 2: sister and I went. My brother didn't. He stayed on

3213
03:03:53,879 --> 03:03:56,680
Speaker 2: with my dad that weekend and we went down and

3214
03:03:56,879 --> 03:04:00,560
Speaker 2: I remember listening as we crossed the river from Ohio

3215
03:04:00,720 --> 03:04:04,119
Speaker 2: and to Kentucky, and these AM stations began. You would

3216
03:04:04,160 --> 03:04:07,760
Speaker 2: pick up i mean, religious programs even during the week

3217
03:04:08,840 --> 03:04:12,520
Speaker 2: and it was very rural radio. All of a sudden

3218
03:04:12,560 --> 03:04:16,680
Speaker 2: you were there and it was exposed and hardcore hillbilly stuff.

3219
03:04:17,560 --> 03:04:22,400
Speaker 2: And I remembered on that drive this is maybe at

3220
03:04:22,440 --> 03:04:25,720
Speaker 2: that point fifteen or sixteen. I wasn't driving it, so

3221
03:04:25,800 --> 03:04:28,680
Speaker 2: I was probably fifteen years old, sixteen, but old enough

3222
03:04:28,760 --> 03:04:33,000
Speaker 2: to feel the future, you know, the sense I wasn't

3223
03:04:33,040 --> 03:04:35,640
Speaker 2: going to be here. And I remember looking across at

3224
03:04:35,640 --> 03:04:39,400
Speaker 2: the hills when we were just north, just out of Ashley, Kentucky,

3225
03:04:39,879 --> 03:04:43,800
Speaker 2: and headed into Catholicsburg, where I would always hear about

3226
03:04:43,840 --> 03:04:46,200
Speaker 2: the car wreck where they went off and they flipped.

3227
03:04:46,200 --> 03:04:49,320
Speaker 2: They're lucky they lived, my mother and my aunt and

3228
03:04:49,440 --> 03:04:55,280
Speaker 2: uncle going back home and flipped a car. Because it

3229
03:04:55,400 --> 03:04:58,920
Speaker 2: was just a dangerous, dangerous road. And I remember we

3230
03:04:59,040 --> 03:05:01,640
Speaker 2: got past there, talked about that again. Every time we

3231
03:05:01,720 --> 03:05:03,400
Speaker 2: went through it. We had to hear about the wreck.

3232
03:05:04,040 --> 03:05:09,800
Speaker 2: And I remember looking out and thinking and not knowing

3233
03:05:10,000 --> 03:05:12,400
Speaker 2: anything about what that meant or why you have the

3234
03:05:12,560 --> 03:05:16,520
Speaker 2: thought other than you know, like unbridled ego. I don't.

3235
03:05:17,000 --> 03:05:20,080
Speaker 2: I thought, I'm supposed to. I'm going to sing about this,

3236
03:05:20,640 --> 03:05:25,040
Speaker 2: about these people in this world. I'm supposed to. I

3237
03:05:25,400 --> 03:05:31,600
Speaker 2: felt like that epiphanous moment was that in retrospect, I've

3238
03:05:31,640 --> 03:05:34,960
Speaker 2: thought about it several times over the years that ensued

3239
03:05:35,000 --> 03:05:40,039
Speaker 2: and once my career started, because you don't You can

3240
03:05:40,800 --> 03:05:43,720
Speaker 2: attempt to plan to have a journey, but you cannot

3241
03:05:43,840 --> 03:05:48,880
Speaker 2: be prepared for the topography of the journey. Right the

3242
03:05:49,000 --> 03:05:52,720
Speaker 2: landscape is going to be different than you imagined, and

3243
03:05:53,000 --> 03:05:55,600
Speaker 2: and you won't be prepared for it. I wasn't. I

3244
03:05:55,720 --> 03:05:58,560
Speaker 2: wasn't prepared for that, you know, for the for the

3245
03:06:00,320 --> 03:06:03,440
Speaker 2: the physical geography of you know, you can look at

3246
03:06:03,480 --> 03:06:07,320
Speaker 2: a map, but that's one dimensional. You can look on

3247
03:06:07,360 --> 03:06:10,840
Speaker 2: a map all day long and plan and think, but

3248
03:06:10,959 --> 03:06:13,840
Speaker 2: when you're really there, it's different. And I remember that,

3249
03:06:14,120 --> 03:06:16,640
Speaker 2: as I said, looking back over the years and thinking

3250
03:06:16,720 --> 03:06:19,240
Speaker 2: of that moment in that car with them, it was

3251
03:06:19,320 --> 03:06:22,280
Speaker 2: just a silent thought as that radio was playing all

3252
03:06:22,360 --> 03:06:28,680
Speaker 2: this various fading in and out am station stuff, and

3253
03:06:29,680 --> 03:06:32,520
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to this is what I'm supposed to talk

3254
03:06:32,560 --> 03:06:36,400
Speaker 2: about and do. And then after I was here for

3255
03:06:36,440 --> 03:06:38,320
Speaker 2: about a year and a half or so, I came

3256
03:06:38,360 --> 03:06:41,800
Speaker 2: across the very first John Prime album, that first Atlantic

3257
03:06:41,879 --> 03:06:44,480
Speaker 2: record that he did with the Memphis Boys. As you

3258
03:06:44,600 --> 03:06:47,760
Speaker 2: read the book, the Memphis Boys not great writing, but

3259
03:06:48,200 --> 03:06:52,720
Speaker 2: it's such a wonderful That's Chips Moments group that started out.

3260
03:06:52,800 --> 03:06:55,440
Speaker 2: The first record they ever had was I'm Your Puppet

3261
03:06:55,680 --> 03:06:59,440
Speaker 2: that he and Dan pencut and which became an East

3262
03:06:59,560 --> 03:07:03,640
Speaker 2: Lams like Sophie I'm Your Puppet. The Lowder going to

3263
03:07:03,760 --> 03:07:07,320
Speaker 2: just always imagine Art Bell not was it Art? I

3264
03:07:07,400 --> 03:07:11,440
Speaker 2: mean Art Lebaux Leau remember Art Lebau, I'm Your all

3265
03:07:11,520 --> 03:07:14,680
Speaker 2: those songs. Uh was it k R l A that

3266
03:07:14,840 --> 03:07:18,280
Speaker 2: Art lebaul was? Yeah, yeah, kr LA the amer I

3267
03:07:18,360 --> 03:07:20,360
Speaker 2: mean that was La. You know in the seventies, right,

3268
03:07:20,400 --> 03:07:22,600
Speaker 2: it was still there. You know, the you know, the culture,

3269
03:07:22,959 --> 03:07:27,080
Speaker 2: the car culture, you know hot Rod, those songs. But

3270
03:07:27,360 --> 03:07:31,440
Speaker 2: they did that and they made the spectrum on those guys,

3271
03:07:32,160 --> 03:07:36,600
Speaker 2: the Memphis Boys, like the Wrecking Crew, they did stuff

3272
03:07:37,440 --> 03:07:41,560
Speaker 2: that was I mean, Dan Penn produced the box tops,

3273
03:07:42,000 --> 03:07:44,360
Speaker 2: give Me a Dig Up One Air, Alex Chilton right

3274
03:07:44,680 --> 03:07:47,640
Speaker 2: of these teenagers, and he was so his voice sounded

3275
03:07:47,720 --> 03:07:50,000
Speaker 2: like that from what I've read, because he was so

3276
03:07:50,240 --> 03:07:53,040
Speaker 2: jacked up. See, he and his girlfriend were so excited

3277
03:07:53,040 --> 03:07:54,800
Speaker 2: he was going to go in and record. They stayed

3278
03:07:54,840 --> 03:07:56,840
Speaker 2: up for like two days straight before and they drank

3279
03:07:56,920 --> 03:07:59,440
Speaker 2: and he was all messed up when he walked in

3280
03:07:59,440 --> 03:08:02,640
Speaker 2: and sang that way. The cry like a baby's one

3281
03:08:02,680 --> 03:08:05,880
Speaker 2: of my favorite too, because Dan Penn wrote that, right, Yeah,

3282
03:08:06,000 --> 03:08:10,840
Speaker 2: the electric cetar. Right. But but those guys went from

3283
03:08:12,080 --> 03:08:14,560
Speaker 2: that's end of the spectrum. And they also did the

3284
03:08:14,640 --> 03:08:19,160
Speaker 2: gentries I keep on dancing, sades out and fades back in. Yeah,

3285
03:08:19,760 --> 03:08:24,560
Speaker 2: and and and they did that. They did Neil Diamond

3286
03:08:24,959 --> 03:08:28,279
Speaker 2: like a month before they cut the comeback record for Elvis,

3287
03:08:28,720 --> 03:08:31,760
Speaker 2: the Memphis record. That's the one they did. And I

3288
03:08:31,920 --> 03:08:34,240
Speaker 2: was reading in the in the book it was the

3289
03:08:34,320 --> 03:08:39,640
Speaker 2: guitar player for Oh, I just went completely blank on.

3290
03:08:40,879 --> 03:08:45,280
Speaker 2: Oh that's it's horrible. I can't even anyway. Uh, he

3291
03:08:45,440 --> 03:08:47,800
Speaker 2: was saying, you know, we were non plussed you and Elvis.

3292
03:08:47,879 --> 03:08:50,360
Speaker 2: He said, yeah, sure, Elvis wants to come and cut

3293
03:08:50,440 --> 03:08:53,320
Speaker 2: with us. He knows who we are. Now we've just

3294
03:08:53,400 --> 03:08:56,040
Speaker 2: cut Neil Diamond. Sweet Caroline we've done this and that.

3295
03:08:56,560 --> 03:08:59,000
Speaker 2: And he said, but the night of the session, because

3296
03:08:59,040 --> 03:09:01,280
Speaker 2: it was at night, because you know, started at like

3297
03:09:01,400 --> 03:09:04,240
Speaker 2: seven in the evening or hey, he said, the door opened.

3298
03:09:04,440 --> 03:09:06,640
Speaker 2: He said, we were all sitting there just going yeah,

3299
03:09:06,640 --> 03:09:10,680
Speaker 2: I guess again. And he said, we looked up and went,

3300
03:09:11,840 --> 03:09:14,960
Speaker 2: holy ship, that's Elvis. He said. There was nobody that

3301
03:09:15,120 --> 03:09:18,000
Speaker 2: ever came to that studio but that. But to finish

3302
03:09:18,080 --> 03:09:22,920
Speaker 2: that thought, they did that spectrum of music. I mean,

3303
03:09:22,920 --> 03:09:25,400
Speaker 2: they were doing all the Wilson picket stuff like Mustang

3304
03:09:25,480 --> 03:09:28,360
Speaker 2: staly and allying. They were doing some of it first

3305
03:09:28,400 --> 03:09:31,400
Speaker 2: in muscle shows until he built the studio American Recorders

3306
03:09:31,480 --> 03:09:34,880
Speaker 2: in Memphis, but Elvis that was in Memphis, Neil Diamond

3307
03:09:35,440 --> 03:09:39,880
Speaker 2: and then they did John Primece first time because Wexler

3308
03:09:40,560 --> 03:09:44,640
Speaker 2: right at Atlantic that he heard the I'm your puppy,

3309
03:09:44,680 --> 03:09:46,920
Speaker 2: He said, who did this? He said, I want to

3310
03:09:46,959 --> 03:09:48,920
Speaker 2: wreath it a cut with them, and that's the famous

3311
03:09:49,040 --> 03:09:52,600
Speaker 2: story of how they went. But and then she left

3312
03:09:52,720 --> 03:09:54,959
Speaker 2: the whole session, you know, and fame because of whatever

3313
03:09:55,120 --> 03:09:57,200
Speaker 2: was said to her. There was some you know, a

3314
03:09:57,280 --> 03:10:01,640
Speaker 2: horrible off color remark or whatever, and he said, she

3315
03:10:01,680 --> 03:10:03,880
Speaker 2: won't come back down there. He called Chip's moment, he said,

3316
03:10:03,920 --> 03:10:07,080
Speaker 2: but she liked you guys, and he said, she ain't

3317
03:10:07,120 --> 03:10:10,960
Speaker 2: coming back to Memphis or must shows, he said, but

3318
03:10:11,680 --> 03:10:13,320
Speaker 2: she wants you to do it, but I'll bring it

3319
03:10:13,400 --> 03:10:15,280
Speaker 2: to New York. So he brought those cats up there.

3320
03:10:15,520 --> 03:10:18,440
Speaker 2: And you know who's on on that chain of fools

3321
03:10:18,879 --> 03:10:21,480
Speaker 2: because Dan Penn had written do Right Woman for and

3322
03:10:21,720 --> 03:10:23,640
Speaker 2: and he was smart. You know what they did. They

3323
03:10:23,720 --> 03:10:26,880
Speaker 2: let her play piano, that's what Wexle was smart, but

3324
03:10:27,040 --> 03:10:29,800
Speaker 2: d the first time all of her career after that

3325
03:10:29,879 --> 03:10:33,160
Speaker 2: on Clembing, she'd not you know, been allowed to company

3326
03:10:33,240 --> 03:10:36,080
Speaker 2: herself and she played you and sang do it and

3327
03:10:36,360 --> 03:10:39,080
Speaker 2: it took off. But Chaine of Fools is Joe South

3328
03:10:39,160 --> 03:10:44,200
Speaker 2: doing that pop stables literally that guitar change, change chang.

3329
03:10:44,959 --> 03:10:48,600
Speaker 2: It's amazing they cut. Did you never see her? No?

3330
03:10:48,800 --> 03:10:50,920
Speaker 2: I never saw her. And I saw her an Award show.

3331
03:10:51,400 --> 03:10:53,400
Speaker 2: I saw her do one you know like that, but

3332
03:10:53,440 --> 03:10:55,879
Speaker 2: I didn't see her in colle She it was you.

3333
03:10:55,920 --> 03:10:59,560
Speaker 1: Know, it was very interesting because she knew who she was.

3334
03:11:00,040 --> 03:11:05,560
Speaker 1: Yeah okay, and she sauntered out and she just delivered.

3335
03:11:07,400 --> 03:11:09,120
Speaker 1: It was it was kind of like the Elvis moment

3336
03:11:09,240 --> 03:11:12,320
Speaker 1: walking Oh, that's Elvis. Yeah, well that's a wreatha. She

3337
03:11:12,480 --> 03:11:15,840
Speaker 1: can do it effortlessly. She can blow your mind and

3338
03:11:16,040 --> 03:11:18,880
Speaker 1: walk off the stage knowing she's a wreatha. It's not

3339
03:11:19,000 --> 03:11:21,360
Speaker 1: like she's feeding off of you. It's like your stunt.

3340
03:11:22,560 --> 03:11:24,800
Speaker 2: Just dropped the mic and say exactly.

3341
03:11:25,520 --> 03:11:28,160
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I mean I can remember she said

3342
03:11:28,240 --> 03:11:30,840
Speaker 1: when you're a chain chain chain, oh, because that that

3343
03:11:31,000 --> 03:11:32,160
Speaker 1: was really the killer.

3344
03:11:32,120 --> 03:11:35,160
Speaker 2: That opening guitar riff, and it's a it's like like

3345
03:11:35,320 --> 03:11:37,600
Speaker 2: Joe South. I found out later Joe South is who's

3346
03:11:37,600 --> 03:11:40,520
Speaker 2: playing that guitar with those guys, because he knew Chips

3347
03:11:40,560 --> 03:11:43,200
Speaker 2: and Chips was from Atlanta and that's where I mean

3348
03:11:43,320 --> 03:11:45,520
Speaker 2: Joe South. That's another story altogether of somebody.

3349
03:11:45,600 --> 03:11:46,080
Speaker 1: Joe South.

3350
03:11:46,160 --> 03:11:48,840
Speaker 2: He had the one hit. We had two. He had

3351
03:11:48,879 --> 03:11:50,600
Speaker 2: walked a mile of my shoes and in the games

3352
03:11:50,640 --> 03:11:52,520
Speaker 2: people play, Okay, I forgot the first one.

3353
03:11:52,920 --> 03:11:54,320
Speaker 1: But could he survive? Is?

3354
03:11:54,840 --> 03:11:55,120
Speaker 2: Could he?

3355
03:11:55,520 --> 03:11:56,680
Speaker 1: Did he write anything else?

3356
03:11:56,840 --> 03:12:05,320
Speaker 2: Oh? My god, Bob, he wrote He wrote Nana Hush hush,

3357
03:12:05,440 --> 03:12:10,240
Speaker 2: deep purple, I think out here name now hush hush.

3358
03:12:10,600 --> 03:12:13,280
Speaker 2: And he wrote one of my favorites. It wasn't a

3359
03:12:13,360 --> 03:12:18,840
Speaker 2: huge it, but it was he wrote down in the

3360
03:12:19,000 --> 03:12:22,080
Speaker 2: Boondocks down in There, down in It with Billy Joe

3361
03:12:22,200 --> 03:12:26,119
Speaker 2: Royal Billy. You remember the labor from down in the Boon.

3362
03:12:26,240 --> 03:12:28,960
Speaker 1: Do you remember what label the Deep Purple record was on?

3363
03:12:29,280 --> 03:12:36,200
Speaker 1: No for Grammaton It was Bill Cosby's label. Okay, since yeah,

3364
03:12:36,600 --> 03:12:39,520
Speaker 1: since we're so deep into this, what did Billy Joe

3365
03:12:39,720 --> 03:12:40,840
Speaker 1: Shaver survive on?

3366
03:12:42,080 --> 03:12:45,360
Speaker 2: Well? He wrote that whole Honkey Talks and Heroes first

3367
03:12:45,400 --> 03:12:48,760
Speaker 2: album for Whaling, right, and his son, Eddie Shaver. What

3368
03:12:48,879 --> 03:12:51,960
Speaker 2: a sweet soul, a kid that grew up right in

3369
03:12:52,000 --> 03:12:53,560
Speaker 2: the thick of it. I mean he was with Whaling

3370
03:12:53,600 --> 03:12:55,400
Speaker 2: and all of them, and Willie and I mean, you know,

3371
03:12:55,640 --> 03:12:58,320
Speaker 2: from the time he was a year old wandering around

3372
03:12:59,080 --> 03:13:02,520
Speaker 2: and Eddie had demons, but he was such a sweetheart

3373
03:13:02,600 --> 03:13:05,320
Speaker 2: and what a great guitar player. I saw him play

3374
03:13:05,400 --> 03:13:10,199
Speaker 2: with his dad at the club Lingerie when he was fifteen,

3375
03:13:10,440 --> 03:13:15,680
Speaker 2: maybe years old, in nineteen eighty three or four, because

3376
03:13:15,800 --> 03:13:17,680
Speaker 2: right as so I was putting out my EP now

3377
03:13:17,720 --> 03:13:22,959
Speaker 2: it was eighty four. And then in eighty seven Pete Anderson,

3378
03:13:22,959 --> 03:13:25,280
Speaker 2: who had been playing lead guitar with me and going out,

3379
03:13:26,000 --> 03:13:29,160
Speaker 2: couldn't do it. He had fourteen offers to produce. He said,

3380
03:13:29,200 --> 03:13:30,800
Speaker 2: I got to do this. I got to stay here.

3381
03:13:30,920 --> 03:13:32,680
Speaker 2: We have to find a guy. I said, I know

3382
03:13:32,760 --> 03:13:35,360
Speaker 2: who to call, and I called Eddie Shaver and he

3383
03:13:35,440 --> 03:13:38,600
Speaker 2: can't do it. Yeah, Eddie Shaver played with me that year,

3384
03:13:38,600 --> 03:13:40,280
Speaker 2: and he did it again in eighty nine when Pete

3385
03:13:40,280 --> 03:13:43,440
Speaker 2: couldn't go out for you know, producing, and Eddie twured

3386
03:13:43,680 --> 03:13:47,640
Speaker 2: in eighty nine again into ninety and just I mean

3387
03:13:47,720 --> 03:13:50,360
Speaker 2: a whole different style playing. He's a Texas big hand,

3388
03:13:50,480 --> 03:13:53,600
Speaker 2: you know, lead player. But Billy Joe, I mean, he's

3389
03:13:53,640 --> 03:13:55,880
Speaker 2: written some great stuff. I'm just an old chunk of coal.

3390
03:13:56,080 --> 03:13:58,400
Speaker 2: John Anderson had a huge hit. But you know I'm

3391
03:13:58,440 --> 03:14:01,400
Speaker 2: going to be a diamond someday. That rye tongue in cheek.

3392
03:14:01,440 --> 03:14:05,840
Speaker 2: But but what was I talking about with the chain

3393
03:14:05,920 --> 03:14:09,720
Speaker 2: of old Joe South? The other one, the other one

3394
03:14:09,800 --> 03:14:11,640
Speaker 2: that he wrote because he owes songs. He was on

3395
03:14:11,760 --> 03:14:15,200
Speaker 2: a plane to la to meet with his publisher to

3396
03:14:15,280 --> 03:14:17,840
Speaker 2: get a new check. You know, he's living on the

3397
03:14:18,040 --> 03:14:21,880
Speaker 2: you know advances, and he and he hadn't delivered two

3398
03:14:22,000 --> 03:14:25,480
Speaker 2: or three songs, right And on the plane ride from

3399
03:14:25,600 --> 03:14:29,840
Speaker 2: Atlanta out here, he wrote, I beg your pardon. I

3400
03:14:30,000 --> 03:14:35,240
Speaker 2: never promised you. Rose Garden along with the sunshine. He's

3401
03:14:35,320 --> 03:14:37,880
Speaker 2: got to come a little rain some time. So, I

3402
03:14:37,959 --> 03:14:40,720
Speaker 2: mean he wrote some great stuff for other people. The

3403
03:14:40,840 --> 03:14:42,840
Speaker 2: one that I love is don't it make you want

3404
03:14:42,879 --> 03:14:45,920
Speaker 2: to go Home? Which I think bj Thomas had a

3405
03:14:46,640 --> 03:14:50,120
Speaker 2: don't make you want to go home? Children? Don't make

3406
03:14:50,160 --> 03:14:53,240
Speaker 2: you want to go home? All guy's chilling, get weary

3407
03:14:53,400 --> 03:14:57,600
Speaker 2: when they roam. Don't make you want to go home? Anyway.

3408
03:14:58,680 --> 03:15:01,920
Speaker 1: Well, you know I grew up you know where we

3409
03:15:02,080 --> 03:15:06,000
Speaker 1: only heard those songs when they crossed over. Yeah, it's

3410
03:15:06,080 --> 03:15:08,480
Speaker 1: like Tom Petty. One of the last times I saw

3411
03:15:08,760 --> 03:15:11,120
Speaker 1: he played some country song and he called you know,

3412
03:15:11,320 --> 03:15:14,359
Speaker 1: today's modern country music is the rock of the seventies.

3413
03:15:14,800 --> 03:15:17,600
Speaker 1: If you grew up in the Northeast and you hit

3414
03:15:17,680 --> 03:15:20,720
Speaker 1: the country station, you saw the shit kickers. It's not

3415
03:15:21,000 --> 03:15:25,160
Speaker 1: like today. So there's a lot of history we don't know. Conversely,

3416
03:15:25,280 --> 03:15:27,880
Speaker 1: I have to ask you to what degree were you

3417
03:15:28,000 --> 03:15:28,800
Speaker 1: into the Beatles?

3418
03:15:28,879 --> 03:15:31,600
Speaker 2: In the rock seat? Oh? I was. You couldn't escape

3419
03:15:31,640 --> 03:15:34,720
Speaker 2: the Beatles because am rady right? You know the buttons

3420
03:15:35,080 --> 03:15:39,760
Speaker 2: And my mom listened to every station she loved. The

3421
03:15:40,240 --> 03:15:43,120
Speaker 2: Big Top forty station was on her car radio. My

3422
03:15:43,280 --> 03:15:46,960
Speaker 2: dad was the Hillbalay station, you know WMN I was

3423
03:15:47,000 --> 03:15:50,080
Speaker 2: the hillbalay station you didn't get in his car, and

3424
03:15:50,160 --> 03:15:51,960
Speaker 2: it wasn't on anything else. It was on that I

3425
03:15:52,080 --> 03:15:55,040
Speaker 2: was hearing. The one that crossed over a little bit

3426
03:15:55,200 --> 03:15:59,720
Speaker 2: was Hintson Cargil with the skip Rope. The Doom Doom

3427
03:16:00,520 --> 03:16:03,320
Speaker 2: skipp borro ain't a kind of fun and what to

3428
03:16:03,480 --> 03:16:07,440
Speaker 2: children say, skippero. It was about a divorce and a couple,

3429
03:16:07,600 --> 03:16:10,119
Speaker 2: And it was like there was that kind of stuff

3430
03:16:10,200 --> 03:16:14,000
Speaker 2: going on at that time, late sixties, the psychobilly era

3431
03:16:14,200 --> 03:16:16,440
Speaker 2: had kind of taken hold in Nashville and there were

3432
03:16:16,520 --> 03:16:20,200
Speaker 2: crossover hits. Harper Valley Pta that was a huge top hit,

3433
03:16:20,680 --> 03:16:23,040
Speaker 2: and that was a straight up hillbilly record to begin with.

3434
03:16:23,240 --> 03:16:25,240
Speaker 2: It was out of you know, kind of the country

3435
03:16:25,320 --> 03:16:29,840
Speaker 2: polatant moment. But so all that was going on, I mean,

3436
03:16:30,640 --> 03:16:32,120
Speaker 2: you know, and then by the early seventies you got

3437
03:16:32,200 --> 03:16:35,000
Speaker 2: Jerry Reid breaking out of the Nashville scene doing Amos

3438
03:16:35,120 --> 03:16:38,440
Speaker 2: Moses and all that stuff. You had Tony Joe White

3439
03:16:38,879 --> 03:16:41,960
Speaker 2: doing Poke Salad Anning which almost first covered and so

3440
03:16:42,120 --> 03:16:46,000
Speaker 2: there was this that was the beauty of Top forty radio.

3441
03:16:46,160 --> 03:16:48,560
Speaker 2: Really was that right in that moment?

3442
03:16:48,640 --> 03:16:52,240
Speaker 1: Well, I remember the last crossover record was Charlie Rich

3443
03:16:52,840 --> 03:16:56,880
Speaker 1: Beautiful Girl in the World. After that, everybody had an

3444
03:16:57,000 --> 03:16:59,320
Speaker 1: FM radio. Yeah, they didn't have to listen to the

3445
03:16:59,400 --> 03:17:02,200
Speaker 1: top four, right. It became segregary when you come like

3446
03:17:02,280 --> 03:17:04,560
Speaker 1: you know, Polk Salad anyhow. I just know those listening to.

3447
03:17:04,600 --> 03:17:08,360
Speaker 2: The top forty. Yeah, no, it was and I didn't. Uh.

3448
03:17:08,520 --> 03:17:11,280
Speaker 2: And Charlie Rich, yes, along with the other guy that

3449
03:17:11,440 --> 03:17:14,120
Speaker 2: Freddie Hart had Easy Lovin that crossed over, which was

3450
03:17:14,200 --> 03:17:17,600
Speaker 2: this West Coast thing and you know he did, uh,

3451
03:17:18,240 --> 03:17:20,920
Speaker 2: Charlie Rich with the most Beautiful Girl. Yeah, and Behind

3452
03:17:21,000 --> 03:17:26,880
Speaker 2: Closed Doors that thing right, yeah, yeah, Behind Closed Doors

3453
03:17:27,040 --> 03:17:29,520
Speaker 2: was you know. The funny thing about Charlie Rich was

3454
03:17:30,360 --> 03:17:32,280
Speaker 2: he was out of Arkansas and he was studying. He

3455
03:17:32,320 --> 03:17:36,160
Speaker 2: was a very literate cat he was, I mean really musically. Yeah,

3456
03:17:36,240 --> 03:17:39,520
Speaker 2: he was a jazz piano player, right, and studying I

3457
03:17:39,600 --> 03:17:43,160
Speaker 2: think at Arkansas State. And he went to Memphis and

3458
03:17:43,440 --> 03:17:48,160
Speaker 2: had an audition with with Jack Clements, right, you know

3459
03:17:48,360 --> 03:17:52,240
Speaker 2: who produced Charlie Lee and everybody, and and worked with

3460
03:17:52,440 --> 03:17:55,880
Speaker 2: Sam Phillips, you know, after Elvis left, Jack was and

3461
03:17:56,040 --> 03:17:58,840
Speaker 2: Johnny Cash all that you know, Home of the Blues

3462
03:17:58,840 --> 03:18:00,920
Speaker 2: and all that stuff, you know, was with Jack Clements

3463
03:18:01,440 --> 03:18:05,120
Speaker 2: and he wrote, what was it? He wrote, I guess

3464
03:18:05,160 --> 03:18:07,480
Speaker 2: things happened that way. I think was him. I don't

3465
03:18:07,600 --> 03:18:13,880
Speaker 2: like it, but I guess things happened anyway. Jack. He

3466
03:18:14,400 --> 03:18:18,880
Speaker 2: auditions Charlie Rich and he said, not bad kid. He said,

3467
03:18:18,920 --> 03:18:22,480
Speaker 2: you're really good. You're very sophisticated, accomplished musician, aren't you.

3468
03:18:22,520 --> 03:18:24,240
Speaker 2: And he said, well, I've studied.

3469
03:18:23,959 --> 03:18:24,280
Speaker 1: This, sir.

3470
03:18:25,959 --> 03:18:28,960
Speaker 2: And he said he dropped the needle on one of

3471
03:18:29,120 --> 03:18:32,000
Speaker 2: Jerry Lee's before he they had just done, hadn't released.

3472
03:18:32,080 --> 03:18:35,600
Speaker 2: He started playing Jerry Lewis. He said, you know, Son,

3473
03:18:35,720 --> 03:18:39,000
Speaker 2: He said, when you can play that bad, won't you

3474
03:18:39,080 --> 03:18:44,600
Speaker 2: come back and see me? But you can play that poorly,

3475
03:18:44,879 --> 03:18:47,200
Speaker 2: come back and see you. Right, that was And then

3476
03:18:47,360 --> 03:18:49,960
Speaker 2: Charlie wrote he did sign with Son and he put

3477
03:18:50,000 --> 03:18:52,960
Speaker 2: out Lonely Weekends. That was when his Sun record. It

3478
03:18:53,040 --> 03:18:56,160
Speaker 2: was like Orbison. They didn't have they didn't blow up

3479
03:18:56,200 --> 03:18:59,160
Speaker 2: on Son. You know, Roy had this day.

3480
03:19:00,040 --> 03:19:03,480
Speaker 1: People don't realize how different Nashville and Memphis are.

3481
03:19:03,840 --> 03:19:05,840
Speaker 2: Oh, you're a student of the game.

3482
03:19:06,240 --> 03:19:10,440
Speaker 1: They hear that Memphis is like Mississippi. Oh yeah, Doc,

3483
03:19:10,800 --> 03:19:12,360
Speaker 1: it's like a whole different thing.

3484
03:19:12,480 --> 03:19:16,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's another world. And and uh, and even Elvis.

3485
03:19:17,000 --> 03:19:19,320
Speaker 2: There was a story that I hold heard George Klein

3486
03:19:19,400 --> 03:19:23,080
Speaker 2: tell in the Elvis channel one time about when Sam

3487
03:19:23,160 --> 03:19:26,440
Speaker 2: Phillips sold Elvis to sold the contract to our ce.

3488
03:19:27,240 --> 03:19:29,400
Speaker 2: He warned, oh, he said, Now, Elvis, he said, you're

3489
03:19:29,400 --> 03:19:32,280
Speaker 2: going to be around those guys and they're gonna, you know,

3490
03:19:32,360 --> 03:19:33,880
Speaker 2: start cuting. He said, they're going to try and change

3491
03:19:33,879 --> 03:19:36,440
Speaker 2: you because they're not they don't understand you said, I

3492
03:19:36,520 --> 03:19:39,600
Speaker 2: guarantee you they will not understand what you've done and

3493
03:19:39,720 --> 03:19:43,160
Speaker 2: what we've done. He said, And you're a really good singer,

3494
03:19:43,520 --> 03:19:47,240
Speaker 2: Sam Phillips, this is what he told Elvis, he said.

3495
03:19:48,320 --> 03:19:50,800
Speaker 2: And don't let them change you, he said, And don't

3496
03:19:50,920 --> 03:19:54,920
Speaker 2: let them change your band, because you've put your sound together.

3497
03:19:54,959 --> 03:19:58,760
Speaker 2: You know, Elvis in DJ, the drummer Fontaine, you know

3498
03:19:58,800 --> 03:20:01,120
Speaker 2: who come on board with him the last year and

3499
03:20:01,160 --> 03:20:03,360
Speaker 2: a half before he signed with the RCA, because they

3500
03:20:03,360 --> 03:20:06,680
Speaker 2: were a trio first Scottie and Bill Black and you

3501
03:20:06,760 --> 03:20:09,920
Speaker 2: know upright bass and he said, man, he said, well,

3502
03:20:09,959 --> 03:20:12,480
Speaker 2: people don't realize that's Elvis playing that rhythm guitar and

3503
03:20:12,520 --> 03:20:15,840
Speaker 2: all those Sun records that slapped them backed because they're

3504
03:20:15,840 --> 03:20:18,720
Speaker 2: no drums, he said. And I never played with a

3505
03:20:18,800 --> 03:20:21,120
Speaker 2: guy that had as good a right hand on the

3506
03:20:21,200 --> 03:20:25,240
Speaker 2: guitar as Elvis, he said, or that sang with the

3507
03:20:25,400 --> 03:20:29,920
Speaker 2: sense of time. That's what people don't get about Elvis Presley,

3508
03:20:30,640 --> 03:20:33,800
Speaker 2: you know, is how good a singer he was in

3509
03:20:33,959 --> 03:20:37,640
Speaker 2: terms of that's why rock and roll became rock and roll.

3510
03:20:37,800 --> 03:20:40,879
Speaker 2: In Capitol Letters and Little Richard, which there's a new

3511
03:20:40,959 --> 03:20:44,039
Speaker 2: documentary on him, I have everything, which is I liked

3512
03:20:44,080 --> 03:20:48,600
Speaker 2: watching Richard met Little Richard. Huh Old. Yeah.

3513
03:20:49,440 --> 03:20:52,600
Speaker 1: The funniest thing about Richard is he was the same guy.

3514
03:20:52,879 --> 03:20:57,879
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, he was. Little Richard was like he would

3515
03:20:57,879 --> 03:20:59,880
Speaker 2: come and he would see me and he did gravity,

3516
03:21:00,120 --> 03:21:03,560
Speaker 2: Oh baby, come here, and and everybody had to pray

3517
03:21:03,640 --> 03:21:05,959
Speaker 2: with him, you know, you had to pray prayer circle.

3518
03:21:06,040 --> 03:21:09,160
Speaker 2: Marty Stewart had me they were cutting over I don't know.

3519
03:21:09,240 --> 03:21:10,960
Speaker 2: It was a I don't know what it was a

3520
03:21:11,080 --> 03:21:14,720
Speaker 2: don Imus record that we were all anyway, he and

3521
03:21:14,879 --> 03:21:16,400
Speaker 2: he said you got to come over here me. He said,

3522
03:21:16,400 --> 03:21:18,280
Speaker 2: I got Richard of the Village recorders, and I went

3523
03:21:18,320 --> 03:21:20,200
Speaker 2: over that night and I hung out and he spotted me.

3524
03:21:20,640 --> 03:21:23,000
Speaker 2: He was living at the top of the old you know,

3525
03:21:23,160 --> 03:21:25,680
Speaker 2: the rock and roll Hiatt on. So I said, you know,

3526
03:21:25,760 --> 03:21:27,240
Speaker 2: he was living there for a year or so and

3527
03:21:27,320 --> 03:21:29,400
Speaker 2: I was doing a video on the roof and he

3528
03:21:29,480 --> 03:21:32,320
Speaker 2: caught me then and he was just always really really

3529
03:21:32,480 --> 03:21:36,360
Speaker 2: kind to me, and the few interactions I had with him,

3530
03:21:36,400 --> 03:21:39,400
Speaker 2: he was just a you know, a sweet guy. Uh

3531
03:21:39,440 --> 03:21:41,120
Speaker 2: and you got to feel, well, you watch this, you

3532
03:21:41,240 --> 03:21:44,640
Speaker 2: feel what a what a shattered kind of torn soul?

3533
03:21:44,959 --> 03:21:49,520
Speaker 2: You know. He boy the original version of Tooty Fruity.

3534
03:21:49,560 --> 03:21:54,480
Speaker 2: I'd never heard the original lyrics till that documentary Tooty Fruity,

3535
03:21:54,600 --> 03:21:58,959
Speaker 2: Good Booty. It was like wow, and uh, but anyway,

3536
03:21:59,200 --> 03:22:01,720
Speaker 2: so he pre sees he's Elvis, and of course the

3537
03:22:01,800 --> 03:22:06,120
Speaker 2: Pat Boone stuff of you know, is something it's like,

3538
03:22:06,640 --> 03:22:14,000
Speaker 2: you know, like wow, it's sacrilegious. But Elvis and I

3539
03:22:14,080 --> 03:22:16,560
Speaker 2: understood when DJ talked about he said, yeah, but you

3540
03:22:16,640 --> 03:22:19,000
Speaker 2: got to understand, man, when he and he actually was

3541
03:22:19,160 --> 03:22:22,960
Speaker 2: ahead of Richard regionally. You know, he was out in

3542
03:22:23,120 --> 03:22:26,320
Speaker 2: fifty three, fifty four or five, you know, those three years,

3543
03:22:26,400 --> 03:22:29,840
Speaker 2: and Richard doesn't hit till that day in New Orleans

3544
03:22:30,040 --> 03:22:35,080
Speaker 2: with the Old Session. Durm Earl Palmer talked about it.

3545
03:22:35,160 --> 03:22:38,280
Speaker 2: He's like, man, we all went to lunch Richard said,

3546
03:22:38,280 --> 03:22:40,280
Speaker 2: And they didn't know I played piano. They had him

3547
03:22:40,320 --> 03:22:43,080
Speaker 2: standard doing arms, like thinking he'll just be this guy

3548
03:22:43,200 --> 03:22:46,240
Speaker 2: standards sing sing blues, R and B. He said, I

3549
03:22:46,320 --> 03:22:48,880
Speaker 2: didn't want to do that. They didn't understand, he said.

3550
03:22:48,959 --> 03:22:51,080
Speaker 2: At lunch they all went over to this little dive

3551
03:22:51,240 --> 03:22:53,880
Speaker 2: that nearby and had a piano in her, he said,

3552
03:22:53,920 --> 03:22:55,800
Speaker 2: and Richard got up and started playing her, like what

3553
03:22:56,080 --> 03:23:01,000
Speaker 2: the and he started tooty fruity and said, we've never

3554
03:23:01,080 --> 03:23:04,160
Speaker 2: seen anything like that or heard anything that was like

3555
03:23:04,760 --> 03:23:08,600
Speaker 2: to be pretty good booty. And so they went back

3556
03:23:08,640 --> 03:23:10,080
Speaker 2: and the guy that was the A and R guy

3557
03:23:10,120 --> 03:23:12,039
Speaker 2: can't remember his name now this is in the documentary,

3558
03:23:12,080 --> 03:23:15,240
Speaker 2: but he goes back over and says to the owner

3559
03:23:15,360 --> 03:23:20,800
Speaker 2: of whoever's studio they had him in there, not carusive,

3560
03:23:20,800 --> 03:23:28,680
Speaker 2: but uh anyway that because that label, which is LA based,

3561
03:23:28,760 --> 03:23:32,080
Speaker 2: I think that that he was on right that decided

3562
03:23:32,120 --> 03:23:34,400
Speaker 2: to go with it. When he went in and said

3563
03:23:34,440 --> 03:23:36,920
Speaker 2: that the an R cat he said, hey, he just

3564
03:23:37,000 --> 03:23:38,840
Speaker 2: did something over there. We got to now we got

3565
03:23:38,959 --> 03:23:40,800
Speaker 2: to clean the lyrics up. And there was a staff

3566
03:23:40,920 --> 03:23:43,960
Speaker 2: woman who and she's interviewed and now she said it

3567
03:23:44,160 --> 03:23:50,040
Speaker 2: was nasty, nasty, nasty, Richard got him and he said, oh,

3568
03:23:50,120 --> 03:23:54,760
Speaker 2: that wasn't that was just her mind. You know, you're

3569
03:23:54,840 --> 03:23:58,800
Speaker 2: literally saying it, Richard. But so you between the two,

3570
03:23:59,720 --> 03:24:03,320
Speaker 2: rich has that hit. But again it was ostracized to

3571
03:24:04,920 --> 03:24:08,199
Speaker 2: race stations, right, black radio, and it had to find

3572
03:24:08,240 --> 03:24:14,320
Speaker 2: the white audience and Elvis you know, doing that, you know,

3573
03:24:14,440 --> 03:24:17,000
Speaker 2: it was just and so I'm a kid that the

3574
03:24:17,160 --> 03:24:20,600
Speaker 2: meant the Sun stuff was with me from the time

3575
03:24:20,720 --> 03:24:24,000
Speaker 2: I was a baby. I was an Elvis free but

3576
03:24:24,120 --> 03:24:27,039
Speaker 2: mystery trained, you know. And and then by the time

3577
03:24:27,080 --> 03:24:29,359
Speaker 2: I got in high school, that album they re released,

3578
03:24:29,760 --> 03:24:32,480
Speaker 2: you know, the Sun album, the Sun Records as a collection,

3579
03:24:33,160 --> 03:24:35,240
Speaker 2: and I had them and I had them and I

3580
03:24:35,320 --> 03:24:37,640
Speaker 2: knew that's when I knew. I said, but this is

3581
03:24:37,879 --> 03:24:40,400
Speaker 2: and I was listening simultaneously at the same time, same

3582
03:24:40,480 --> 03:24:44,480
Speaker 2: window credence, you know. One of the first albums, well,

3583
03:24:44,520 --> 03:24:47,960
Speaker 2: the first record ever bought by myself was that this

3584
03:24:48,879 --> 03:24:53,040
Speaker 2: this shopping center and it was an old you know,

3585
03:24:53,080 --> 03:24:56,000
Speaker 2: apothecary drug store was record racks, you know, and stuff.

3586
03:24:56,280 --> 03:24:56,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, my mom.

3587
03:24:57,000 --> 03:24:59,800
Speaker 2: I had money in my own from whatever allowance I

3588
03:24:59,840 --> 03:25:03,480
Speaker 2: got from working George stuff around the house, and and

3589
03:25:03,600 --> 03:25:06,200
Speaker 2: I had you know, a few dollars and I bought

3590
03:25:06,400 --> 03:25:10,160
Speaker 2: Roy orbitson. They did a re release of pretty Woman,

3591
03:25:10,600 --> 03:25:14,400
Speaker 2: but the song that I found on the backside it

3592
03:25:14,600 --> 03:25:18,199
Speaker 2: was a double single because it was they were both singles,

3593
03:25:18,720 --> 03:25:22,480
Speaker 2: but it was re released uh as a spotlight series.

3594
03:25:22,600 --> 03:25:26,400
Speaker 2: It was Candy Man and Candy Man was cut monument

3595
03:25:27,120 --> 03:25:31,160
Speaker 2: in Nashville, you know, post the Memphis stuff with the

3596
03:25:31,320 --> 03:25:37,320
Speaker 2: first ever uh, playing on record of harmonica by Charlie

3597
03:25:37,400 --> 03:25:40,080
Speaker 2: McCoy who goes on to become a great harmonica session player.

3598
03:25:40,480 --> 03:25:50,520
Speaker 2: But it opens wet bone, Bone Bone. I'm That song

3599
03:25:50,720 --> 03:25:55,720
Speaker 2: fascinated me to this day. Come on Baby, And that

3600
03:25:56,120 --> 03:25:58,560
Speaker 2: was the extension of the Elvis thing. You because the

3601
03:25:58,600 --> 03:26:00,880
Speaker 2: other stuff with Roy I loved Woman, I love all,

3602
03:26:01,320 --> 03:26:04,040
Speaker 2: but it's a little more operatic. And Candy Man was

3603
03:26:04,120 --> 03:26:06,720
Speaker 2: swinging man. It was in that groove at shovel and

3604
03:26:07,160 --> 03:26:11,240
Speaker 2: and Elvis, especially the sun stuff, and I found it.

3605
03:26:12,000 --> 03:26:15,240
Speaker 2: That was the first single I bought. Album album was

3606
03:26:15,320 --> 03:26:19,680
Speaker 2: probably Cosmos Factory because I was on my bikes. I

3607
03:26:19,800 --> 03:26:23,400
Speaker 2: rode from this this uh, you know box store that

3608
03:26:24,280 --> 03:26:26,840
Speaker 2: had started, you know, sprung up by the early seventies.

3609
03:26:26,840 --> 03:26:29,720
Speaker 2: There were these things and it had racks of music

3610
03:26:29,800 --> 03:26:31,440
Speaker 2: and I was looking through it, and I found the

3611
03:26:31,480 --> 03:26:34,400
Speaker 2: Cosmos Factory because I wanted tracks off of that. And

3612
03:26:34,440 --> 03:26:37,320
Speaker 2: then I bought Green River. I bought the preceding things

3613
03:26:37,360 --> 03:26:38,039
Speaker 2: that I heard single.

3614
03:26:38,200 --> 03:26:40,240
Speaker 1: Green River was the first one I bought. Yeah, I

3615
03:26:40,360 --> 03:26:42,679
Speaker 1: was Born on the bay unbelievable.

3616
03:26:42,760 --> 03:26:46,879
Speaker 2: Oh how how great? Huh? I mean born on the Bayou, right,

3617
03:26:47,640 --> 03:26:50,280
Speaker 2: because I mean all of it. But anyway, so I'm

3618
03:26:50,360 --> 03:26:53,000
Speaker 2: listening to that and this re release, this stuff they

3619
03:26:53,000 --> 03:26:56,400
Speaker 2: were rediscovering, you know, of the sun stuff of Elvis,

3620
03:26:56,840 --> 03:26:59,200
Speaker 2: you know, because the Brits all knew that. And yes,

3621
03:26:59,360 --> 03:27:01,320
Speaker 2: I was listening to the Beatles because of my mom

3622
03:27:02,080 --> 03:27:05,360
Speaker 2: with that AM radio, and I was hearing those hits

3623
03:27:05,640 --> 03:27:08,680
Speaker 2: and I really got And when you see the get

3624
03:27:08,800 --> 03:27:10,320
Speaker 2: back down here and you see the two of them

3625
03:27:10,360 --> 03:27:13,120
Speaker 2: looking up each other at one point point later in

3626
03:27:13,200 --> 03:27:16,160
Speaker 2: the in the movie, you know, after George leaves and

3627
03:27:16,200 --> 03:27:20,560
Speaker 2: then comes back and they're staring and John and George

3628
03:27:20,760 --> 03:27:25,520
Speaker 2: just like just by Osmosa begins singing bye Bye Love

3629
03:27:26,040 --> 03:27:30,760
Speaker 2: identically to the Everlas. Right, you realize they loved it.

3630
03:27:31,440 --> 03:27:36,360
Speaker 2: They loved that music, they loved that stuff, and uh

3631
03:27:38,480 --> 03:27:41,160
Speaker 2: so I could hear that in there. I could find

3632
03:27:41,240 --> 03:27:44,200
Speaker 2: it in the Beatles. I understood it, you know, Yeah,

3633
03:27:44,400 --> 03:27:48,640
Speaker 2: I was listening to the Beatles, and I've done homages

3634
03:27:48,720 --> 03:27:51,000
Speaker 2: to them, you know, you and I we did. You know,

3635
03:27:52,400 --> 03:27:54,039
Speaker 2: I've just seen a face. Right.

3636
03:27:54,120 --> 03:27:57,160
Speaker 1: But when when you come to LA this is not

3637
03:27:57,360 --> 03:28:00,760
Speaker 1: the music that's being signed and on the road.

3638
03:28:01,360 --> 03:28:04,560
Speaker 2: But but I get here in seventy seven and seventy eight,

3639
03:28:04,600 --> 03:28:07,200
Speaker 2: I'm up on the strip one night. One day in

3640
03:28:07,240 --> 03:28:10,360
Speaker 2: the afternoon, I'm roaming around and looking at tower because

3641
03:28:10,360 --> 03:28:12,480
Speaker 2: I'm living in Long Beach and I hadn't moved yet

3642
03:28:12,600 --> 03:28:15,080
Speaker 2: up here. I was driving. Okay, Joe, why Long Beach

3643
03:28:15,160 --> 03:28:17,800
Speaker 2: because that's the cheapest beach on the buddy of mine.

3644
03:28:17,840 --> 03:28:21,040
Speaker 2: And I came out. I said, dude, we can't live

3645
03:28:21,280 --> 03:28:25,880
Speaker 2: down in landlocked Orange count We've come this far, that's

3646
03:28:26,720 --> 03:28:30,800
Speaker 2: come this fighting. No, you either got to be in Hollywood.

3647
03:28:30,879 --> 03:28:34,240
Speaker 2: We should be right in Hollywood or early Ocean, all right.

3648
03:28:34,680 --> 03:28:37,440
Speaker 2: So we started in Santama. He goes, Okay, okay, we

3649
03:28:37,600 --> 03:28:39,600
Speaker 2: started in Santa Monica because we were staying with his

3650
03:28:39,760 --> 03:28:42,800
Speaker 2: relatives in Tustin, right, and so we drove up, spent

3651
03:28:42,840 --> 03:28:45,960
Speaker 2: a whole day. Dress we start in Santa Monica and

3652
03:28:46,120 --> 03:28:49,600
Speaker 2: we can't afford any of that, right, Santa Monica, Venice.

3653
03:28:49,920 --> 03:28:55,480
Speaker 2: We just go down down Route one. We're down Pacific

3654
03:28:55,560 --> 03:28:57,960
Speaker 2: Goes Highway, going all the way into the Then we

3655
03:28:58,040 --> 03:29:00,720
Speaker 2: get to Manhattan Beach and we can't or that and

3656
03:29:00,840 --> 03:29:02,160
Speaker 2: we get over it and we come up. I said,

3657
03:29:02,200 --> 03:29:04,200
Speaker 2: what what this thing? I'm looking at, Madie, there's somebody,

3658
03:29:04,240 --> 03:29:06,480
Speaker 2: come on, get back on the freeway. And we crossed,

3659
03:29:06,800 --> 03:29:10,840
Speaker 2: you know, over the San Pedro and roll into Long

3660
03:29:10,920 --> 03:29:12,720
Speaker 2: Beach and we go down there and the old pike

3661
03:29:12,959 --> 03:29:16,120
Speaker 2: was there, the Remuvement Park. It was still a run

3662
03:29:16,240 --> 03:29:21,280
Speaker 2: down ocean town, you know, Harbortown, Long Beach, and the

3663
03:29:21,400 --> 03:29:25,280
Speaker 2: apartments were literally on ninth Place, right dead end of

3664
03:29:25,320 --> 03:29:29,240
Speaker 2: the beach for nothing. And we got this little single

3665
03:29:29,440 --> 03:29:31,640
Speaker 2: you know, with a bat, you know, a little tiny kitchen.

3666
03:29:32,240 --> 03:29:35,000
Speaker 2: And he only stayed about three months. He left by

3667
03:29:35,640 --> 03:29:38,520
Speaker 2: the last week of June, and I was there, Okay, Well,

3668
03:29:38,600 --> 03:29:39,600
Speaker 2: why did he leave?

3669
03:29:39,720 --> 03:29:40,680
Speaker 1: How much of it?

3670
03:29:41,160 --> 03:29:45,360
Speaker 2: He just didn't? He never, I think I looking back.

3671
03:29:46,280 --> 03:29:49,080
Speaker 2: He wanted to visit his aunt and uncle and was

3672
03:29:49,160 --> 03:29:52,440
Speaker 2: held bent on delivering me to La. He knew I

3673
03:29:52,480 --> 03:29:53,960
Speaker 2: had already been to Nashville a couple of times, and

3674
03:29:54,520 --> 03:29:58,120
Speaker 2: in seventy six, seventy two. It was if you did.

3675
03:29:58,480 --> 03:30:01,120
Speaker 2: I didn't know. I've said this to Steve Earl. I said,

3676
03:30:01,920 --> 03:30:05,080
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that those houses were the business, the

3677
03:30:05,200 --> 03:30:09,600
Speaker 2: publishing houses, right, music Row, it's quiet. There was no

3678
03:30:09,760 --> 03:30:11,600
Speaker 2: there was Lower there was Lower Broad, but it was

3679
03:30:11,720 --> 03:30:14,280
Speaker 2: just a few drunk bars. And there's Printer's Alley which

3680
03:30:14,400 --> 03:30:16,440
Speaker 2: Boots Randolph had a club and it was you know,

3681
03:30:16,520 --> 03:30:19,400
Speaker 2: it's a nightclub thing, but there was no live music,

3682
03:30:19,920 --> 03:30:22,840
Speaker 2: not like La or New York or you know, and

3683
03:30:22,959 --> 03:30:26,080
Speaker 2: it was it was the quiet. They got up nine am,

3684
03:30:26,160 --> 03:30:29,000
Speaker 2: they had coffee and we're writing solid right, and they're

3685
03:30:29,040 --> 03:30:31,440
Speaker 2: cutting them with the I didn't know that that that's

3686
03:30:31,520 --> 03:30:33,160
Speaker 2: how you did it there. And I went there a

3687
03:30:33,200 --> 03:30:36,240
Speaker 2: couple of times. I auditioned for the Grandel Opry Park,

3688
03:30:36,360 --> 03:30:40,160
Speaker 2: the Opry Land, and I got a slot in January

3689
03:30:40,200 --> 03:30:42,880
Speaker 2: as as an alternate. And they said, well, you come

3690
03:30:42,959 --> 03:30:45,280
Speaker 2: back to summer and if somebody gets sick or they

3691
03:30:45,640 --> 03:30:49,440
Speaker 2: will pull you in. And he said to me, do

3692
03:30:49,480 --> 03:30:52,120
Speaker 2: you really want to do that? I said no, I said,

3693
03:30:52,520 --> 03:30:55,600
Speaker 2: I guess. He said, man, you're coming with me, and

3694
03:30:55,720 --> 03:30:58,400
Speaker 2: he said and he paid for the gas, and I

3695
03:30:58,440 --> 03:31:01,480
Speaker 2: didn't have, you know, couple hundred bucks. We packed everything

3696
03:31:01,800 --> 03:31:04,680
Speaker 2: on which was nothing. My guitar and I had a

3697
03:31:04,760 --> 03:31:10,240
Speaker 2: k at that point, big open sound, okay, And he

3698
03:31:10,440 --> 03:31:13,440
Speaker 2: deposited me on the West coast, and then by his

3699
03:31:13,640 --> 03:31:15,160
Speaker 2: plan was all he wasn't staying.

3700
03:31:16,120 --> 03:31:18,480
Speaker 1: Well, how did you feel when he abandoned you?

3701
03:31:19,560 --> 03:31:22,680
Speaker 2: Not not crushed, because I kind of preferred to be alone,

3702
03:31:23,280 --> 03:31:25,160
Speaker 2: you know, scale I was like, you know, I wanted

3703
03:31:25,200 --> 03:31:27,400
Speaker 2: my own room. I never had a room, and I

3704
03:31:27,480 --> 03:31:30,240
Speaker 2: stayed in the smallest little apartments on the face of

3705
03:31:30,280 --> 03:31:33,760
Speaker 2: the earth, just a lit alone. I never shared the

3706
03:31:33,879 --> 03:31:38,920
Speaker 2: space because it would interrupt my I knew what it was.

3707
03:31:39,160 --> 03:31:42,000
Speaker 2: It would interrupt my thoughts and what I needed to do,

3708
03:31:42,200 --> 03:31:45,160
Speaker 2: and you know, write and to try and create songs.

3709
03:31:45,240 --> 03:31:47,240
Speaker 2: I knew then you had to write, you know, you

3710
03:31:47,280 --> 03:31:51,800
Speaker 2: had to create your material. And so no, what was

3711
03:31:51,879 --> 03:31:53,840
Speaker 2: going on out here then? I mean, you had you

3712
03:31:53,959 --> 03:31:56,959
Speaker 2: had the burgeoning La punk thing, but I don't even

3713
03:31:56,959 --> 03:31:58,880
Speaker 2: think Los Angeles had come out yet with the X

3714
03:31:58,959 --> 03:32:01,640
Speaker 2: hadn't happened. But you still had Fleetwood, Matt, you had

3715
03:32:01,680 --> 03:32:04,240
Speaker 2: all the that stuff. You know. The other end of

3716
03:32:04,280 --> 03:32:07,520
Speaker 2: the spectrum of country rock had become the new pop,

3717
03:32:07,720 --> 03:32:10,560
Speaker 2: right the Eagles had now become the pop rock act.

3718
03:32:11,040 --> 03:32:14,520
Speaker 2: Fleetwood Mac was everything, and you know, and and then

3719
03:32:14,600 --> 03:32:17,120
Speaker 2: you started hearing in the summer seventy seven. I remember,

3720
03:32:17,200 --> 03:32:20,600
Speaker 2: I think watching the Detectives Elvis in the attract. The

3721
03:32:20,680 --> 03:32:24,760
Speaker 2: English new waves started coming, right, So seventy eight, I'm

3722
03:32:24,840 --> 03:32:28,760
Speaker 2: up at Tower Records and one afternoon and stumbling around.

3723
03:32:28,760 --> 03:32:31,040
Speaker 2: We're looking through it and there's free tickets like you

3724
03:32:31,200 --> 03:32:33,840
Speaker 2: highlight tickets to the Whiskey. You go. There's a show

3725
03:32:33,959 --> 03:32:39,440
Speaker 2: that night and it's Robert Gordon with Link Ray and Yeah.

3726
03:32:40,040 --> 03:32:43,080
Speaker 2: And Robert Gordon at the time had had on FM.

3727
03:32:43,160 --> 03:32:44,640
Speaker 2: I would hear on the wirl if it was k

3728
03:32:44,800 --> 03:32:48,800
Speaker 2: R o Q or whatever. But he had a revival

3729
03:32:48,959 --> 03:32:51,800
Speaker 2: rockabillity thing of UH. I forget who the band was

3730
03:32:51,840 --> 03:32:58,520
Speaker 2: it did Lex Lex Lexlex remember that? And Robert Gordon

3731
03:32:58,600 --> 03:33:01,680
Speaker 2: was out of d c any he had well the

3732
03:33:01,800 --> 03:33:07,000
Speaker 2: first the opening act that night was UH was Billy

3733
03:33:07,120 --> 03:33:12,120
Speaker 2: Zoom pre X. Billy Zoom, the guitar player for X

3734
03:33:12,440 --> 03:33:16,240
Speaker 2: had a rockabilly band and he and he had that

3735
03:33:16,360 --> 03:33:18,760
Speaker 2: duo jets and he was out there slamming it and

3736
03:33:18,840 --> 03:33:20,120
Speaker 2: he was out and it was one of the last

3737
03:33:20,200 --> 03:33:22,920
Speaker 2: gigs he ever did, because he told Pete Anderson at

3738
03:33:22,920 --> 03:33:24,480
Speaker 2: the time told me. Larry said, yeah, he told me.

3739
03:33:24,560 --> 03:33:26,640
Speaker 2: He said, I you are gonna believe this. He said,

3740
03:33:26,640 --> 03:33:29,119
Speaker 2: I've been trying to do what I do great for years.

3741
03:33:30,160 --> 03:33:32,680
Speaker 2: I've just put this band together just doing We're doing

3742
03:33:32,800 --> 03:33:37,440
Speaker 2: trash punkins and we're signed. We're doing it. It was

3743
03:33:37,760 --> 03:33:39,640
Speaker 2: x he said. They got out and then did John

3744
03:33:39,680 --> 03:33:41,680
Speaker 2: Doe and Exen. They did Los Angeles and it was

3745
03:33:41,760 --> 03:33:45,000
Speaker 2: the cultural explosion of that. But I go in there

3746
03:33:45,040 --> 03:33:47,480
Speaker 2: and see Robert Gordon with link Ray. That was one

3747
03:33:47,520 --> 03:33:50,040
Speaker 2: of the loudest things I've ever heard to this day,

3748
03:33:50,760 --> 03:33:54,000
Speaker 2: nothing louder than link Ray because he would open do

3749
03:33:54,080 --> 03:33:58,160
Speaker 2: a couple did rumble of course, you know, brown, brown brown.

3750
03:33:58,879 --> 03:34:01,680
Speaker 2: I mean, it was a sight to see. And the

3751
03:34:01,840 --> 03:34:06,840
Speaker 2: Blasters were somehow connected because Ronnie Weisner or whatever, this

3752
03:34:07,000 --> 03:34:10,320
Speaker 2: guy this he was either Czechoslovaki or Hungarian. He was

3753
03:34:10,320 --> 03:34:12,200
Speaker 2: a little guy, was out of his mind. He saw

3754
03:34:12,280 --> 03:34:14,360
Speaker 2: me leaning on a pole because I you know, you're

3755
03:34:15,000 --> 03:34:18,600
Speaker 2: you just want to drink in every single second of

3756
03:34:18,760 --> 03:34:21,400
Speaker 2: any of it. So I stayed that the show's over

3757
03:34:22,080 --> 03:34:24,240
Speaker 2: and they've all but turned the ugly lights on and

3758
03:34:24,280 --> 03:34:26,160
Speaker 2: their tearings. You know, they don't run you out of

3759
03:34:26,200 --> 03:34:27,760
Speaker 2: the whiskeys. You just stand there if you want to

3760
03:34:27,760 --> 03:34:31,160
Speaker 2: buy a drink. And I'm leaning against the pole, just watching,

3761
03:34:31,720 --> 03:34:33,879
Speaker 2: just to watch it, you know, watch them tear down

3762
03:34:33,920 --> 03:34:37,359
Speaker 2: the gear, watch them carry it to the curb, watching everybody.

3763
03:34:37,360 --> 03:34:39,800
Speaker 2: And I'm alone, and I'm and this guy comes to

3764
03:34:39,920 --> 03:34:44,560
Speaker 2: running Weisner. Wisner. Yeah. Anyway, He goes, what you do?

3765
03:34:45,280 --> 03:34:50,160
Speaker 2: What are you doing? The broken English Eastern European accident?

3766
03:34:51,040 --> 03:34:53,280
Speaker 2: Well do you know I think? I said, well I do,

3767
03:34:53,520 --> 03:34:55,320
Speaker 2: I said. He said, you're a musician, because he's just

3768
03:34:55,440 --> 03:34:58,680
Speaker 2: looking at me, and I'm leaning on you know, at

3769
03:34:58,720 --> 03:35:01,039
Speaker 2: that point, I'm more a David Essex. Looked at anything.

3770
03:35:01,080 --> 03:35:03,640
Speaker 2: I've got boots on, but I got you know, bells,

3771
03:35:03,680 --> 03:35:06,240
Speaker 2: it's bell bottom blues. Right at that point in La

3772
03:35:07,040 --> 03:35:09,720
Speaker 2: leaning against the wall, and he goes, look at of music.

3773
03:35:09,760 --> 03:35:12,080
Speaker 2: I said, well, you know, kind of country rock. For

3774
03:35:12,240 --> 03:35:14,120
Speaker 2: lack of a better discrete. You know, I'm letting them

3775
03:35:14,200 --> 03:35:17,360
Speaker 2: know that we're He goes, ah full you you know

3776
03:35:17,400 --> 03:35:22,320
Speaker 2: what you need to rockabilly? Rockabilly, rockabilly, that's what's bigger. Rockabilly.

3777
03:35:22,600 --> 03:35:25,400
Speaker 2: I'm like, dude, I know rockabilly from the inside out

3778
03:35:25,440 --> 03:35:29,040
Speaker 2: of me. I was born to rockabilly, and that was

3779
03:35:29,160 --> 03:35:32,400
Speaker 2: my first experience when you said, what was going on here?

3780
03:35:33,080 --> 03:35:36,320
Speaker 2: Was that moment? Think about seventy eight. You're already here.

3781
03:35:36,360 --> 03:35:40,400
Speaker 2: You're in the business. Right, it's the chains shift. Right.

3782
03:35:41,320 --> 03:35:47,359
Speaker 2: Petty comes out looking like a seventies rocker but playing

3783
03:35:48,040 --> 03:35:50,640
Speaker 2: like new wave. Right, you know, you know what I mean.

3784
03:35:51,000 --> 03:35:53,720
Speaker 2: That's the economy of Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.

3785
03:35:54,560 --> 03:35:58,359
Speaker 1: I saw them all at the whiskey, Tom Petty, Elvis Costello.

3786
03:35:58,240 --> 03:36:01,520
Speaker 2: In even the band, Joe Jackson, Yeah right, you know,

3787
03:36:02,600 --> 03:36:05,959
Speaker 2: and even the band was Joe Jackson watching the detectives.

3788
03:36:06,760 --> 03:36:07,520
Speaker 1: No, that was Elvis.

3789
03:36:07,680 --> 03:36:11,480
Speaker 2: That's Elvis. But what Joe Jackson was, uh usually really

3790
03:36:11,560 --> 03:36:12,400
Speaker 2: going out with him.

3791
03:36:12,600 --> 03:36:16,880
Speaker 1: One more time goes on. But they saw the papers.

3792
03:36:17,280 --> 03:36:20,280
Speaker 2: Anyway, and Joe Jackson was the sharp you know the

3793
03:36:20,360 --> 03:36:24,120
Speaker 2: two tone shoes, you know, man, so so sharp? Yeah,

3794
03:36:24,360 --> 03:36:26,840
Speaker 2: really sure sharp? You know the Teddy Boys shoes right

3795
03:36:26,840 --> 03:36:31,520
Speaker 2: at the needle point. But but uh, that's the moment,

3796
03:36:31,840 --> 03:36:39,240
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, man, you know, when the tide comes

3797
03:36:39,280 --> 03:36:43,360
Speaker 2: in and goes out, you know, when you can beach combe,

3798
03:36:43,480 --> 03:36:47,320
Speaker 2: you can go up and down and find the leftover

3799
03:36:47,360 --> 03:36:50,200
Speaker 2: if you see what's going to happen. And I just

3800
03:36:50,680 --> 03:36:53,760
Speaker 2: had a sense that there was going to be this moment,

3801
03:36:53,840 --> 03:36:57,360
Speaker 2: and because I had known about the whole buck Merle,

3802
03:36:57,680 --> 03:37:00,680
Speaker 2: the whole traditional country that was out here, Appitol Tower,

3803
03:37:00,800 --> 03:37:05,640
Speaker 2: the Capitol Records sound, the Bakersfield sound, and it led

3804
03:37:05,680 --> 03:37:09,120
Speaker 2: to and I knew it begat Chris Hillman, the Birds Sweetheart,

3805
03:37:09,200 --> 03:37:12,920
Speaker 2: at which begat Burritos, which gives Lynda Ronstat the footing.

3806
03:37:12,959 --> 03:37:15,160
Speaker 2: You know, they all that m com mingling. And then

3807
03:37:15,240 --> 03:37:18,600
Speaker 2: by Eagles and Emmy Lou and those records with Brian

3808
03:37:18,720 --> 03:37:22,400
Speaker 2: hern were a beacon that drew me. I thought, that's

3809
03:37:23,240 --> 03:37:26,080
Speaker 2: what I am, that's me, you know, with the purtiness

3810
03:37:26,120 --> 03:37:29,160
Speaker 2: of that. The John Prime thing, I didn't finish. They

3811
03:37:29,280 --> 03:37:32,760
Speaker 2: cut that album on him in Memphis. That first album

3812
03:37:33,800 --> 03:37:36,720
Speaker 2: was again one of the similar moments in the revelatory

3813
03:37:36,800 --> 03:37:39,800
Speaker 2: moments of my life in terms of in terms of

3814
03:37:44,400 --> 03:37:47,680
Speaker 2: my own family's experiences. I remember, I said, the epiphanius

3815
03:37:47,760 --> 03:37:50,040
Speaker 2: moment that I fell, I had, you know, at fifteen

3816
03:37:50,120 --> 03:37:52,959
Speaker 2: or six, riding in the back of that car down

3817
03:37:53,080 --> 03:37:56,280
Speaker 2: Route twenty three of my mom and my aunt and

3818
03:37:56,400 --> 03:38:00,880
Speaker 2: I thought John Prime and the song paradise about his

3819
03:38:00,959 --> 03:38:04,879
Speaker 2: own family moving from western Kentucky up into Illinois and Chicago,

3820
03:38:05,600 --> 03:38:09,160
Speaker 2: and he articulately and I thought, that's what it is.

3821
03:38:09,360 --> 03:38:11,680
Speaker 2: And it's almost like having to be moved so far

3822
03:38:11,760 --> 03:38:15,280
Speaker 2: away from it, so far removed that I wrote reading

3823
03:38:15,360 --> 03:38:21,000
Speaker 2: writing Route twenty three about those tailight baby years, you know,

3824
03:38:21,240 --> 03:38:23,640
Speaker 2: when we would leave on a Friday evening after they

3825
03:38:23,680 --> 03:38:28,520
Speaker 2: got off work. You have you ever seen folks pull

3826
03:38:28,600 --> 03:38:31,040
Speaker 2: up in a hollow after work on Friday night, you know,

3827
03:38:31,680 --> 03:38:37,720
Speaker 2: Prestonsburg can all that stuff. It was I realized it's pertinent.

3828
03:38:38,120 --> 03:38:42,320
Speaker 2: It's pertinent because it's me. It's pertinent to my you know,

3829
03:38:43,440 --> 03:38:47,200
Speaker 2: my expression musically in my life. But John Primes who

3830
03:38:47,280 --> 03:38:51,000
Speaker 2: inspired me to self examine and think. And it's like,

3831
03:38:51,120 --> 03:38:55,840
Speaker 2: what was it that I read that Dickens wrote all

3832
03:38:55,879 --> 03:38:59,160
Speaker 2: the great stories about London and the winter right Christmas

3833
03:38:59,200 --> 03:39:03,040
Speaker 2: Carol living on the Tuscany coast in Italy when he

3834
03:39:03,080 --> 03:39:06,480
Speaker 2: had moved far removed, you know, on the Mediterranean coast

3835
03:39:06,560 --> 03:39:12,360
Speaker 2: in Italy, you know, living expatriate, as you know, as

3836
03:39:12,360 --> 03:39:14,960
Speaker 2: a lender out of it. And he wrote from the

3837
03:39:15,080 --> 03:39:17,600
Speaker 2: vantage point because you're able to see, I think you

3838
03:39:17,760 --> 03:39:22,080
Speaker 2: pull focus when you write about the elements of your

3839
03:39:22,120 --> 03:39:26,280
Speaker 2: own life. When I read you from your distance, right,

3840
03:39:26,800 --> 03:39:29,960
Speaker 2: you're able to see from the distance with a greater

3841
03:39:30,120 --> 03:39:34,000
Speaker 2: degree of clarity what it was you came from Connecticut,

3842
03:39:34,120 --> 03:39:36,280
Speaker 2: the whole scene when you talk about your dad in

3843
03:39:36,320 --> 03:39:38,560
Speaker 2: the liquor store, and you know all of it, the

3844
03:39:38,680 --> 03:39:41,560
Speaker 2: ice cream, the ice cream, you know. I mean, it's

3845
03:39:41,760 --> 03:39:44,480
Speaker 2: visceral when you write, it's visceral, and that's what people

3846
03:39:44,640 --> 03:39:47,680
Speaker 2: love to read. That's why they read, you know. I

3847
03:39:47,760 --> 03:39:51,879
Speaker 2: mean you haven't have you excuse me if I'm insulting

3848
03:39:51,920 --> 03:39:54,680
Speaker 2: you by not knowing that you You haven't published in

3849
03:39:54,840 --> 03:39:58,440
Speaker 2: book form, have you? No? I mean I have got to, Bob.

3850
03:39:58,959 --> 03:40:02,480
Speaker 1: Well, I mean just taking a detour here. If you

3851
03:40:02,720 --> 03:40:07,360
Speaker 1: talk to the major people, they only want fiction. Because

3852
03:40:07,400 --> 03:40:10,439
Speaker 1: I said I would do this, then I had publishers

3853
03:40:10,440 --> 03:40:14,440
Speaker 1: who would do it. But the advances were like ten

3854
03:40:14,520 --> 03:40:15,360
Speaker 1: to twenty grand.

3855
03:40:15,800 --> 03:40:18,280
Speaker 2: You can't afford to do it, you can't take the time.

3856
03:40:18,720 --> 03:40:23,240
Speaker 1: No, no, but yeah no, When I hit send, I

3857
03:40:23,440 --> 03:40:25,840
Speaker 1: reach more people than all these people who read their

3858
03:40:25,879 --> 03:40:27,039
Speaker 1: back their books.

3859
03:40:27,600 --> 03:40:29,920
Speaker 2: But I think a collection of all of it, Bob,

3860
03:40:30,080 --> 03:40:31,600
Speaker 2: has to happen, and somebody's going.

3861
03:40:31,560 --> 03:40:31,720
Speaker 3: To do it.

3862
03:40:32,000 --> 03:40:35,880
Speaker 1: I was thinking, right. But the other thing about it

3863
03:40:36,120 --> 03:40:40,480
Speaker 1: is nothing sells itself these days, not only making it

3864
03:40:40,640 --> 03:40:42,680
Speaker 1: is not the hard part. Then you got to go

3865
03:40:42,760 --> 03:40:44,200
Speaker 1: out and flog it.

3866
03:40:44,600 --> 03:40:45,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And.

3867
03:40:46,840 --> 03:40:49,560
Speaker 1: That's both time and not quite my personality.

3868
03:40:49,600 --> 03:40:52,000
Speaker 2: But I hear you not your nature. No, But I'm

3869
03:40:52,080 --> 03:40:54,680
Speaker 2: telling you there are enough people that know that would

3870
03:40:55,120 --> 03:40:58,320
Speaker 2: love to have it all in one space and in

3871
03:40:58,400 --> 03:41:02,960
Speaker 2: a hardbacked version. I think people would love reading, and

3872
03:41:03,160 --> 03:41:06,160
Speaker 2: especially I mean, you've got va you could do more

3873
03:41:06,200 --> 03:41:08,320
Speaker 2: than one book. It's like you could just do just

3874
03:41:08,440 --> 03:41:10,640
Speaker 2: the things you've written about your family would be you know,

3875
03:41:11,040 --> 03:41:13,920
Speaker 2: it would be its own, you know, tome of four

3876
03:41:14,000 --> 03:41:17,760
Speaker 2: hundred pages. You know you would have. But so the

3877
03:41:18,040 --> 03:41:21,160
Speaker 2: visceral nature. What the John Pride album, that first one

3878
03:41:21,160 --> 03:41:24,360
Speaker 2: where he's on the Bailahet which has Sam Stone uh

3879
03:41:24,959 --> 03:41:28,720
Speaker 2: has has uh uh? Your flag decal won't get you

3880
03:41:28,840 --> 03:41:31,840
Speaker 2: to have anymore? I mean all that but Paradise Spanish

3881
03:41:31,879 --> 03:41:34,280
Speaker 2: pipe Dream. I used to play that in nightclubs out

3882
03:41:34,320 --> 03:41:37,039
Speaker 2: in the Corral in the lake View Terra Foothill in Osborne.

3883
03:41:37,280 --> 03:41:40,160
Speaker 2: There was a cowboy bar that was hardcore. They would

3884
03:41:40,240 --> 03:41:42,800
Speaker 2: ride down from up there in Tonga, and that ain't

3885
03:41:43,040 --> 03:41:48,800
Speaker 2: to Panga. People that someone to Honga ain't to Panga.

3886
03:41:48,879 --> 03:41:51,680
Speaker 2: Don't confuse it too, because the hippies are in Topanga,

3887
03:41:52,600 --> 03:41:56,039
Speaker 2: the bikers that sell meth or in Tonga. It's like exactly.

3888
03:41:56,520 --> 03:41:58,920
Speaker 2: But I played for a year straight the off nights

3889
03:41:59,000 --> 03:42:03,120
Speaker 2: the year Johnt John Lennon was killed on the night

3890
03:42:03,200 --> 03:42:04,800
Speaker 2: that I drove into work and got in there and

3891
03:42:04,920 --> 03:42:08,760
Speaker 2: we heard and Delaney Bramlet lived down the road and

3892
03:42:09,040 --> 03:42:11,120
Speaker 2: came in. He was torn up and got up and

3893
03:42:11,200 --> 03:42:14,280
Speaker 2: played with us, just to just to give Trivty a

3894
03:42:14,320 --> 03:42:19,720
Speaker 2: couple a couple of John's songs. And so my experience

3895
03:42:19,920 --> 03:42:22,520
Speaker 2: this is like nineteen what was eighty because he died

3896
03:42:22,560 --> 03:42:24,879
Speaker 2: in December of eighty, But I had been in there

3897
03:42:27,040 --> 03:42:31,080
Speaker 2: playing Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Because I wasn't good enough

3898
03:42:31,120 --> 03:42:33,480
Speaker 2: to play the weekends. They were fearful I wasn't because

3899
03:42:33,480 --> 03:42:36,280
Speaker 2: I wasn't. I wasn't doing I just wouldn't, you know.

3900
03:42:37,000 --> 03:42:40,720
Speaker 2: I was doing Bill and Row and doing some merle

3901
03:42:40,840 --> 03:42:43,240
Speaker 2: I was doing. You know, it was it was hardcore,

3902
03:42:43,760 --> 03:42:46,360
Speaker 2: you know, hillbilly stuff. Because to that point, once I

3903
03:42:46,440 --> 03:42:52,480
Speaker 2: got here and found just my headspace around it, I realized,

3904
03:42:52,600 --> 03:42:56,080
Speaker 2: but the vantage point I had, dude. That's what the

3905
03:42:56,240 --> 03:43:01,680
Speaker 2: car ride was about who I and my who I

3906
03:43:02,120 --> 03:43:05,640
Speaker 2: was by the birthright of my family, you know, and

3907
03:43:05,760 --> 03:43:08,720
Speaker 2: where I was born, and I need to take this

3908
03:43:09,480 --> 03:43:12,600
Speaker 2: and I need to, you know, pay tribute to that

3909
03:43:12,920 --> 03:43:15,640
Speaker 2: and those people that gave me a chance, you know,

3910
03:43:16,200 --> 03:43:19,040
Speaker 2: to get away from mining coal as a way to

3911
03:43:19,080 --> 03:43:19,600
Speaker 2: make a living.

3912
03:43:19,720 --> 03:43:22,840
Speaker 1: Okay, you're out, you know, the hungun you're playing the

3913
03:43:22,920 --> 03:43:27,560
Speaker 1: week nights. Okay, the nature of being in your twenties

3914
03:43:27,640 --> 03:43:31,080
Speaker 1: and the nature of someone who actually made it. On

3915
03:43:31,240 --> 03:43:34,120
Speaker 1: some level, you're happy. On some level, you're incredibly frustrated.

3916
03:43:34,680 --> 03:43:36,800
Speaker 1: I'm out of the far end of the valley singing

3917
03:43:36,840 --> 03:43:41,400
Speaker 1: Bill Monroe and the billboards are on sunset and everybody's touring.

3918
03:43:41,600 --> 03:43:43,000
Speaker 1: How am I going to get from A to B?

3919
03:43:43,680 --> 03:43:48,520
Speaker 2: Well, that happens because as fate what have Like I said,

3920
03:43:48,720 --> 03:43:52,520
Speaker 2: you sensed the tide, you know, the changing of the tide, right,

3921
03:43:53,360 --> 03:43:58,520
Speaker 2: you know, seventy eight, seventy nine, so eighty that entire year.

3922
03:43:58,560 --> 03:44:01,039
Speaker 2: I'm out there, you know, and it's still a life

3923
03:44:01,160 --> 03:44:05,240
Speaker 2: altering experience. I mean, I'm learning. You're from the bandstand.

3924
03:44:05,280 --> 03:44:09,600
Speaker 2: You see life go by every number, you see them

3925
03:44:09,680 --> 03:44:12,480
Speaker 2: dance pass on that dance floor and you're watching from

3926
03:44:12,520 --> 03:44:15,880
Speaker 2: the fist fights to the the to the heartache to

3927
03:44:16,000 --> 03:44:19,120
Speaker 2: the screaming matches. You you're in there long, five sets

3928
03:44:19,160 --> 03:44:23,400
Speaker 2: a night. You get an education. And I'm writing, I'm

3929
03:44:23,440 --> 03:44:26,880
Speaker 2: writing songs. I'm driving air freight during the day, Airborne

3930
03:44:27,320 --> 03:44:30,000
Speaker 2: getting off work, rolling out there and in between and

3931
03:44:30,000 --> 03:44:33,280
Speaker 2: on the weekend, I'm writing, it won't hurt about those

3932
03:44:33,360 --> 03:44:36,880
Speaker 2: people when I fall down from this barstool. There was

3933
03:44:37,240 --> 03:44:40,160
Speaker 2: I mean, it was a woman. I won't give your name,

3934
03:44:40,200 --> 03:44:42,600
Speaker 2: and it's just a different but she was.

3935
03:44:42,640 --> 03:44:45,440
Speaker 1: I think it's hilarious. You drove Airborne. I used to

3936
03:44:45,520 --> 03:44:46,640
Speaker 1: use Airborne all the time.

3937
03:44:46,680 --> 03:44:50,240
Speaker 2: Instead, Airborne was a competitive fed X. Right, there were

3938
03:44:50,280 --> 03:44:54,240
Speaker 2: three Emory right was the purple, the band, and Airborne

3939
03:44:54,360 --> 03:44:56,720
Speaker 2: was the red and black, you know, and then FedEx

3940
03:44:56,800 --> 03:44:57,240
Speaker 2: was the purple.

3941
03:44:57,280 --> 03:44:59,920
Speaker 1: There were I just have that like silver, red and black.

3942
03:45:00,120 --> 03:45:01,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would over. Red and black was a who

3943
03:45:02,040 --> 03:45:04,640
Speaker 2: had a red shirt and a crack of dam. And

3944
03:45:04,760 --> 03:45:09,280
Speaker 2: so I'm driving Airborne air freight and and look at

3945
03:45:09,320 --> 03:45:11,160
Speaker 2: this bar. There was a woman that wo come in

3946
03:45:11,320 --> 03:45:14,720
Speaker 2: came in there almost every night and I won't give

3947
03:45:14,720 --> 03:45:18,840
Speaker 2: her name, and they called her Lady something, and it

3948
03:45:19,000 --> 03:45:22,880
Speaker 2: wasn't ladylike behavior. She was the screaming us. She'd be

3949
03:45:22,920 --> 03:45:24,280
Speaker 2: down at the end of the bar, and about the

3950
03:45:24,400 --> 03:45:28,040
Speaker 2: third set she would go off and start because somebody

3951
03:45:28,080 --> 03:45:30,640
Speaker 2: would be looking at her, she thought from down the others.

3952
03:45:30,800 --> 03:45:34,040
Speaker 2: It was an L shaped bar, and this place probably

3953
03:45:34,120 --> 03:45:36,240
Speaker 2: held two hundred people. I mean it was a good

3954
03:45:36,280 --> 03:45:38,960
Speaker 2: sized bar, I mean know. And it had an L

3955
03:45:39,120 --> 03:45:44,480
Speaker 2: shaped building that in the front. This is how rough,

3956
03:45:44,560 --> 03:45:49,360
Speaker 2: this was how hardcore. Their banner across the crowd and

3957
03:45:49,400 --> 03:45:53,360
Speaker 2: the outside of it said cock open for cocktail six am.

3958
03:45:55,000 --> 03:45:58,440
Speaker 2: Because they had they had a breakfast counter. Okay, they

3959
03:45:58,480 --> 03:46:01,840
Speaker 2: were close from two to set and they served breaktae.

3960
03:46:02,840 --> 03:46:05,680
Speaker 2: I was asleep on the stage one day. And because

3961
03:46:05,920 --> 03:46:08,520
Speaker 2: my drummer guy named stup Perry, who lived into Hungo,

3962
03:46:08,600 --> 03:46:11,120
Speaker 2: That's how I got to know to Hunga well. He

3963
03:46:11,200 --> 03:46:13,560
Speaker 2: had pit bulls in it. I remember, never forget. Stu

3964
03:46:13,760 --> 03:46:15,520
Speaker 2: was so upset one night when I'd give him a

3965
03:46:15,560 --> 03:46:17,920
Speaker 2: lift from there to get into He was a great drummer.

3966
03:46:18,240 --> 03:46:20,879
Speaker 2: He'd been on the Dick Clark tours. And remember there

3967
03:46:20,959 --> 03:46:23,000
Speaker 2: was a guy around town named Jimmy Rabbit. He was

3968
03:46:23,000 --> 03:46:25,760
Speaker 2: a radio person. Now I had a Jimmy Rabbit, right,

3969
03:46:25,879 --> 03:46:29,640
Speaker 2: not not related to Eddie Rabbit. And he was a

3970
03:46:30,200 --> 03:46:34,160
Speaker 2: you know, a bar band guy, but had local fame

3971
03:46:34,240 --> 03:46:36,200
Speaker 2: because of radio. You know, he was a radio now

3972
03:46:36,360 --> 03:46:39,360
Speaker 2: the DJ, I guess. And so Stu played with him,

3973
03:46:39,440 --> 03:46:41,280
Speaker 2: but he played with everybody. I mean he knew you know,

3974
03:46:41,920 --> 03:46:44,360
Speaker 2: Delayning Bramlet, and he had played over the years because stupid.

3975
03:46:44,840 --> 03:46:47,200
Speaker 2: So Stu was playing drums for me because this guy

3976
03:46:47,280 --> 03:46:49,760
Speaker 2: from Oklahoma who had helped me get my first demos

3977
03:46:49,800 --> 03:46:54,200
Speaker 2: done through a guy at Western Recorder, United Western at

3978
03:46:54,240 --> 03:46:55,959
Speaker 2: that time, those were where I made my first demo.

3979
03:46:56,680 --> 03:46:59,360
Speaker 1: And wait, wait, wait wait this guy who helped you,

3980
03:46:59,480 --> 03:47:02,480
Speaker 1: who paid for that out of the Western's a real studio.

3981
03:47:02,760 --> 03:47:05,320
Speaker 2: Yeah no, No, what happened was this drummer I had,

3982
03:47:05,400 --> 03:47:11,800
Speaker 2: Stuart h Stuart Perry replaced him because Richard Coffee, the

3983
03:47:12,200 --> 03:47:15,160
Speaker 2: guy that I met through another guy from Tulsa. There's

3984
03:47:15,160 --> 03:47:17,680
Speaker 2: this whole weird you know, Tulsa is a weird music scene.

3985
03:47:17,760 --> 03:47:20,040
Speaker 2: They don't know, they don't know if they're over under

3986
03:47:20,120 --> 03:47:23,160
Speaker 2: sideways down right there. Because the culture the continent meets,

3987
03:47:23,520 --> 03:47:27,760
Speaker 2: it's the South meeting the northeast, Midwest. It's oil money,

3988
03:47:27,920 --> 03:47:31,760
Speaker 2: it's big oil money. You know, the Phillips petroleum fortunes there,

3989
03:47:31,879 --> 03:47:34,280
Speaker 2: Phillips sixty six men. They've got one of the great

3990
03:47:34,400 --> 03:47:38,040
Speaker 2: museums of art there. But they are Oakie's you know.

3991
03:47:38,480 --> 03:47:41,240
Speaker 2: On top of it. Leon Russell is the example, right,

3992
03:47:41,280 --> 03:47:44,440
Speaker 2: he comes out of oak you know. So the drummer

3993
03:47:44,560 --> 03:47:47,440
Speaker 2: Richard Coffee who's from Tulsa, who I've met through another

3994
03:47:48,440 --> 03:47:51,360
Speaker 2: Tulsa character. They are characters, the guys that come up.

3995
03:47:51,680 --> 03:47:54,640
Speaker 2: Even Tom Petty has a Tulsa connection. Mudd Coach went

3996
03:47:54,720 --> 03:47:59,119
Speaker 2: through their right and Tom Petty. If I'm not mistaken

3997
03:47:59,560 --> 03:48:03,600
Speaker 2: what I've Yeah, he played bass on a Tulsa record

3998
03:48:03,720 --> 03:48:07,400
Speaker 2: by Dwight Twilley I'm on Fire, remember that, which had

3999
03:48:07,480 --> 03:48:13,040
Speaker 2: Phil of course, I'm on fire. You record in l A.

4000
03:48:13,640 --> 03:48:17,400
Speaker 2: Oh you don't, you don't, you don't, God.

4001
03:48:17,360 --> 03:48:24,520
Speaker 1: No, no, Phil Seymour was really and then he put

4002
03:48:24,560 --> 03:48:26,680
Speaker 1: out a solo album. Then he died very quickly.

4003
03:48:26,800 --> 03:48:30,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, very he had cancer, I guess. And but but

4004
03:48:30,640 --> 03:48:33,320
Speaker 2: he was the drummer for Dwight Twilley and and right,

4005
03:48:33,480 --> 03:48:34,279
Speaker 2: but he also.

4006
03:48:35,600 --> 03:48:37,960
Speaker 1: He also sang in a lot. I would see Dwight

4007
03:48:38,080 --> 03:48:41,200
Speaker 1: Twilly at Madam Wong remember, Oh my.

4008
03:48:41,360 --> 03:48:45,520
Speaker 2: God, And and well, Phil then had the plym Souls.

4009
03:48:45,840 --> 03:48:48,800
Speaker 2: That was his band, right, Well, the Phillip.

4010
03:48:48,640 --> 03:48:52,000
Speaker 1: Soles was the guy who went Folky and went on Geffen.

4011
03:48:52,640 --> 03:48:55,440
Speaker 1: Oh God, what it was married to the woman? Uh

4012
03:48:57,120 --> 03:48:58,600
Speaker 1: not lud Williams, l.

4013
03:48:59,240 --> 03:49:04,240
Speaker 2: Williams somebody, somebody Williams, Williams, Lucinda.

4014
03:49:05,240 --> 03:49:08,120
Speaker 1: No, it wasn't Lucinda. The name was Williams. How come

4015
03:49:08,120 --> 03:49:10,160
Speaker 1: I can't remember the name. I'll look this up in

4016
03:49:10,200 --> 03:49:11,840
Speaker 1: a minute. Because the guy from the Plimso has been

4017
03:49:11,880 --> 03:49:14,960
Speaker 1: in La forever and he changed from being a rocker

4018
03:49:15,720 --> 03:49:19,840
Speaker 1: to be a country Uh, Peter Case.

4019
03:49:20,440 --> 03:49:24,000
Speaker 2: Peter Case, that was his band. You're right, the Plymsols

4020
03:49:24,880 --> 03:49:28,240
Speaker 2: Phil Seymour, and I've misstated that a few times over

4021
03:49:28,280 --> 03:49:30,920
Speaker 2: the years. If Phil just went on to Geffen and

4022
03:49:31,000 --> 03:49:34,360
Speaker 2: had a solo thing, right Phil Seymour, I think it was.

4023
03:49:35,040 --> 03:49:39,200
Speaker 2: I owned the album on Arista for some reason, but

4024
03:49:39,280 --> 03:49:41,440
Speaker 2: it was all about Denny Cordell's stuff at that point,

4025
03:49:41,760 --> 03:49:45,680
Speaker 2: which was Leon's label. Right. They shared Shelter Records, right,

4026
03:49:46,240 --> 03:49:51,960
Speaker 2: and Denny Cordell, who is famous for Flippers the roller

4027
03:49:52,080 --> 03:49:54,960
Speaker 2: rink right at the corner of Losienega and Santa Monica,

4028
03:49:55,160 --> 03:49:58,480
Speaker 2: believe me, where they would have everybody. The King Be's

4029
03:49:58,560 --> 03:50:00,440
Speaker 2: played in the middle because I knew those guys and

4030
03:50:00,480 --> 03:50:02,320
Speaker 2: I would go watch him try and get out there

4031
03:50:02,360 --> 03:50:04,600
Speaker 2: with their gear in the middle of the roller rink.

4032
03:50:05,040 --> 03:50:07,160
Speaker 2: It was in the whole rage of you know, chaer

4033
03:50:07,360 --> 03:50:10,240
Speaker 2: was in their roller skating and yeah, it's crazy.

4034
03:50:10,520 --> 03:50:16,280
Speaker 1: Okay, anyway, so wait, wait, wait, King Be's Jamie Paul Warren.

4035
03:50:16,760 --> 03:50:20,280
Speaker 1: They used to play everywhere all the time. As far

4036
03:50:20,360 --> 03:50:23,800
Speaker 1: as Flipper's Roller Disco, I certainly went there and roller skated.

4037
03:50:24,440 --> 03:50:28,920
Speaker 1: But you remember when Reagan was shot and they delayed

4038
03:50:29,160 --> 03:50:34,400
Speaker 1: the oscars by one day, and that second day second

4039
03:50:34,480 --> 03:50:36,680
Speaker 1: day was Prince at Flippers.

4040
03:50:36,960 --> 03:50:41,960
Speaker 2: At Flippers, it was on the Dirty Mind album. My God,

4041
03:50:42,280 --> 03:50:43,040
Speaker 2: I went there.

4042
03:50:44,160 --> 03:50:47,640
Speaker 1: Maybe there were thirty people in the audience, and he did.

4043
03:50:47,560 --> 03:50:48,240
Speaker 2: The whole act.

4044
03:50:48,360 --> 03:50:52,240
Speaker 1: He was jumping on the bed and everything unbelievable.

4045
03:50:51,920 --> 03:50:54,240
Speaker 2: In the middle of the roller rink. Well, that's la

4046
03:50:54,600 --> 03:50:57,080
Speaker 2: and that's where we were, you know. It's nineteen eighty

4047
03:50:57,080 --> 03:51:01,520
Speaker 2: eighty one, so eighty and then leads into yeah, eighty

4048
03:51:01,600 --> 03:51:06,280
Speaker 2: to eighty one. Because I'd switched from playing driving air freight,

4049
03:51:06,360 --> 03:51:10,960
Speaker 2: I took a job with United Couriers uci there were

4050
03:51:11,000 --> 03:51:15,000
Speaker 2: that red dot I drilled bank checks right in the

4051
03:51:15,160 --> 03:51:19,560
Speaker 2: Armored Car Company, you know. Anyway, because i'd started, I

4052
03:51:19,560 --> 03:51:22,760
Speaker 2: had gone back to La City College, like I mentioned

4053
03:51:22,760 --> 03:51:27,440
Speaker 2: to earlier, and was fooling around with that, and uh,

4054
03:51:28,320 --> 03:51:31,320
Speaker 2: you know, thinking, well, I guess, you know, if it

4055
03:51:31,400 --> 03:51:33,760
Speaker 2: doesn't happen by the time I'm thirty or thirty one,

4056
03:51:33,760 --> 03:51:36,080
Speaker 2: I'm probably twenty seven. At that point, I'm thinking I

4057
03:51:36,200 --> 03:51:41,000
Speaker 2: better at least re you know, recalibrate or something. And

4058
03:51:41,200 --> 03:51:45,800
Speaker 2: so I am doing that at daytime. And Richard Coffee

4059
03:51:46,040 --> 03:51:48,920
Speaker 2: leaves me with stupe Perry as a drummer, but he

4060
03:51:49,040 --> 03:51:52,040
Speaker 2: also introduces me to a house engineer at United Western.

4061
03:51:52,600 --> 03:51:56,840
Speaker 2: His name's Gordon Shryock, and he was this real tall, lanky,

4062
03:51:56,960 --> 03:51:59,560
Speaker 2: like six to two, with a redheaded guy that had

4063
03:51:59,720 --> 03:52:02,800
Speaker 2: curved red hair like a you know, a natural and

4064
03:52:03,680 --> 03:52:08,160
Speaker 2: he had a band called the Mundane Willis World Review.

4065
03:52:08,320 --> 03:52:11,040
Speaker 2: That's a very tulsa kind of take on life, The

4066
03:52:11,200 --> 03:52:14,600
Speaker 2: Mundane Willis World Review. But he was a staff engineer

4067
03:52:15,080 --> 03:52:18,600
Speaker 2: and he did Andre Crouch, he did Natalie Cole, you

4068
03:52:18,680 --> 03:52:22,280
Speaker 2: know at United Western Engineering, right, I mean everybody. He

4069
03:52:22,360 --> 03:52:26,160
Speaker 2: knew Leon really well, you know, and he heard me

4070
03:52:26,320 --> 03:52:29,880
Speaker 2: sing and I played these songs. He said, now dig

4071
03:52:31,280 --> 03:52:33,920
Speaker 2: and he said, that's good stuff. So he decided, he said,

4072
03:52:33,960 --> 03:52:36,280
Speaker 2: but they're going to call this rock and roll because

4073
03:52:36,280 --> 03:52:40,000
Speaker 2: it's so you know, hillbilly and we cut and they're

4074
03:52:40,120 --> 03:52:45,600
Speaker 2: on my thirtieth anniversary re released The Guitarist Cadillacts and

4075
03:52:45,760 --> 03:52:49,680
Speaker 2: on the box set in two thousand and two. I

4076
03:52:49,720 --> 03:52:52,520
Speaker 2: think we put that out, a three or four CD

4077
03:52:52,680 --> 03:52:55,600
Speaker 2: box set Reprise Please Baby. But they're on the re

4078
03:52:55,720 --> 03:52:59,920
Speaker 2: release of The Guitars Cadillacts, the thirtieth anniversary Deluxe dish

4079
03:53:00,160 --> 03:53:03,720
Speaker 2: of that, those demos and it's interesting to hear because

4080
03:53:04,200 --> 03:53:11,160
Speaker 2: Gordon put together Glendy Harden on piano. And I'm getting

4081
03:53:11,200 --> 03:53:13,720
Speaker 2: off driving I was still driving Airborne at that point.

4082
03:53:13,760 --> 03:53:16,880
Speaker 2: Actually I was getting off to Airborne and going to

4083
03:53:16,960 --> 03:53:19,960
Speaker 2: the United Western because he had SPEC time so there's

4084
03:53:20,000 --> 03:53:22,840
Speaker 2: no charge. And he was he said, okay, well, if

4085
03:53:22,880 --> 03:53:24,600
Speaker 2: we make this go, if I get you signed, if

4086
03:53:24,640 --> 03:53:27,760
Speaker 2: I do, I'll I'll take half the publishing. You know,

4087
03:53:27,840 --> 03:53:29,680
Speaker 2: he was going to own part of the public. That's

4088
03:53:29,680 --> 03:53:31,400
Speaker 2: why we do it on the on the spec right,

4089
03:53:32,160 --> 03:53:34,320
Speaker 2: And I said, oh, you know, okay, look back now,

4090
03:53:34,480 --> 03:53:37,760
Speaker 2: so I don't know it. You know, I didn't didn't

4091
03:53:37,800 --> 03:53:43,520
Speaker 2: give it away. And but but we cut I think

4092
03:53:43,640 --> 03:53:48,800
Speaker 2: we cut eight or nine tracks in there, and and

4093
03:53:48,880 --> 03:53:50,920
Speaker 2: he had some connections in Nashville, and I went down

4094
03:53:50,960 --> 03:53:52,760
Speaker 2: there and pitched around and they just looked at me.

4095
03:53:52,840 --> 03:53:59,040
Speaker 2: But I did. Glendie Harden on piano, David Mansfield played

4096
03:53:59,080 --> 03:54:03,880
Speaker 2: fiddle and mandolin. Yeah, I mean, coming right off of

4097
03:54:04,360 --> 03:54:07,640
Speaker 2: Days of Heaven, you know the film the Michael Chimino, right,

4098
03:54:08,160 --> 03:54:12,720
Speaker 2: and he come out of David rolling thunder renew right,

4099
03:54:12,960 --> 03:54:16,080
Speaker 2: He's I mean it was the Prodigy, but so David's

4100
03:54:16,120 --> 03:54:19,560
Speaker 2: playing the mandolin fiddle on those demos, Glendy Harden on piano,

4101
03:54:20,240 --> 03:54:23,080
Speaker 2: Jerry McGee on guitar, you know Jerry McGee from The

4102
03:54:23,200 --> 03:54:27,840
Speaker 2: Ventures and Monkeys, and again a Wrecking Crew guy peripherally, uh,

4103
03:54:27,960 --> 03:54:30,840
Speaker 2: and Robert Wilson, this young bass player out of New Orleans.

4104
03:54:31,880 --> 03:54:34,560
Speaker 2: So that's what And then we had I'm trying to

4105
03:54:34,560 --> 03:54:38,960
Speaker 2: remember the steel players that did it. So that's what

4106
03:54:39,040 --> 03:54:41,920
Speaker 2: I'm doing. It didn't cost me anything. I showed up,

4107
03:54:42,400 --> 03:54:44,800
Speaker 2: you know, after work night, and we cut in the

4108
03:54:44,960 --> 03:54:48,200
Speaker 2: smallest room over there where we tracked at a parquet floor.

4109
03:54:48,600 --> 03:54:52,880
Speaker 2: It's now Studio D because they have no it's now

4110
03:54:53,120 --> 03:54:57,320
Speaker 2: Studio four, but it was, uh one is the big

4111
03:54:57,400 --> 03:55:00,320
Speaker 2: room over there, Studio one, two, and then three Rick

4112
03:55:00,400 --> 03:55:03,360
Speaker 2: Rubin Love's Studio two over there a lot that's a

4113
03:55:03,560 --> 03:55:05,320
Speaker 2: I mean those studios and I would be standing and

4114
03:55:05,400 --> 03:55:08,680
Speaker 2: I cut vocals then out in the big room which

4115
03:55:08,800 --> 03:55:11,840
Speaker 2: Sinatra built. I learned a lot of this later. I'm like,

4116
03:55:12,640 --> 03:55:15,440
Speaker 2: what an auspicious start to that I'm cutting for a

4117
03:55:15,560 --> 03:55:18,280
Speaker 2: first time in a real studio in LA and it's

4118
03:55:18,320 --> 03:55:21,720
Speaker 2: with this guy, Gordon SHROI all this Tulsa connection. And

4119
03:55:22,040 --> 03:55:25,160
Speaker 2: so I did that, and they had those demos, you know,

4120
03:55:26,920 --> 03:55:30,440
Speaker 2: in hand, and it kind of gone Nashville for a

4121
03:55:30,520 --> 03:55:33,680
Speaker 2: brief time to visit. My dad was in Louisville. I

4122
03:55:33,760 --> 03:55:37,680
Speaker 2: took his truck, got the Louisville and drove down and

4123
03:55:37,840 --> 03:55:39,840
Speaker 2: drove to Nashville and spent days down there trying to

4124
03:55:39,880 --> 03:55:41,880
Speaker 2: get somebody to listen and look at this stuff. And

4125
03:55:42,000 --> 03:55:45,160
Speaker 2: it was the songs that made up parts of the

4126
03:55:45,200 --> 03:55:48,520
Speaker 2: first three albums, you know. Eventually and a couple of

4127
03:55:48,560 --> 03:55:50,600
Speaker 2: them we became big hits. And they just kind of

4128
03:55:50,640 --> 03:55:53,520
Speaker 2: looked at it and blinked and didn't quite know what

4129
03:55:53,640 --> 03:55:54,920
Speaker 2: to make of me or what to do with it

4130
03:55:55,560 --> 03:55:58,640
Speaker 2: and that's when things changed and we can pick it

4131
03:55:58,720 --> 03:55:59,600
Speaker 2: up on the next one.

4132
03:56:00,120 --> 03:56:02,120
Speaker 1: Yes, Dwight, I think we've come to the end of

4133
03:56:02,160 --> 03:56:06,000
Speaker 1: the feeling we've known. There's a whole nother story when

4134
03:56:06,040 --> 03:56:09,240
Speaker 1: you emerge on the national stage. We'll get back to that.

4135
03:56:09,800 --> 03:56:12,120
Speaker 2: We want to thank you. The other side of the hills,

4136
03:56:12,960 --> 03:56:14,920
Speaker 2: on the Hollywood side of the hills.

4137
03:56:14,720 --> 03:56:18,600
Speaker 1: Well, you know, then there's there's that, and then there's

4138
03:56:18,840 --> 03:56:22,840
Speaker 1: the twenty first century, which we're still figuring out on.

4139
03:56:22,960 --> 03:56:23,880
Speaker 2: So many levels.

4140
03:56:24,040 --> 03:56:26,560
Speaker 1: From one, I mean, you had, you had a kid,

4141
03:56:26,760 --> 03:56:29,160
Speaker 1: so it makes sense the rest of us are still

4142
03:56:29,240 --> 03:56:31,960
Speaker 1: wandering through the universe trying to figure out what's going on.

4143
03:56:32,720 --> 03:56:36,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, but the kid just looks at me.

4144
03:56:36,560 --> 03:56:41,920
Speaker 2: He was on the phone with them, Okay, daddy, hang up, daddy.

4145
03:56:43,400 --> 03:56:46,680
Speaker 1: Oh little kids, right right right then I hung.

4146
03:56:46,680 --> 03:56:48,920
Speaker 2: Up on me, and then she mayn't call back. I'm sorry.

4147
03:56:49,560 --> 03:56:54,720
Speaker 2: You don't ever have to apologize to me, just anyone.

4148
03:56:54,840 --> 03:56:57,120
Speaker 1: Well, I'll let you get back home to him.

4149
03:56:57,320 --> 03:56:59,960
Speaker 2: Well, I'm actually head of the studio. I'm gonna stop

4150
03:57:00,080 --> 03:57:02,760
Speaker 2: there and go I'm trying to finish his record. So

4151
03:57:03,360 --> 03:57:07,400
Speaker 2: but you know, Bob, thank you for having me and

4152
03:57:07,760 --> 03:57:08,440
Speaker 2: it's it's.

4153
03:57:08,520 --> 03:57:14,480
Speaker 1: Well, it's great talking to you because it makes all

4154
03:57:14,600 --> 03:57:17,000
Speaker 1: that stuff that I have in my brain important than

4155
03:57:17,040 --> 03:57:18,320
Speaker 1: my parents. You know, what, are you going to stop

4156
03:57:18,360 --> 03:57:21,480
Speaker 1: buying records for this girl I lived with? I didn't

4157
03:57:21,480 --> 03:57:24,680
Speaker 1: think I was moving in with your records and you

4158
03:57:24,760 --> 03:57:29,320
Speaker 1: know all these cultural references that means so much to us.

4159
03:57:29,760 --> 03:57:31,240
Speaker 2: We got to talk about that, and we've got to

4160
03:57:31,240 --> 03:57:34,120
Speaker 2: talk about free and how good all right now? Is?

4161
03:57:35,240 --> 03:57:38,440
Speaker 2: I mean the stuff that we That's the best song

4162
03:57:38,560 --> 03:57:41,600
Speaker 2: ever played on a state fair, County fair in Midway

4163
03:57:42,040 --> 03:57:44,920
Speaker 2: because you know who play the guy doing the Himalayan ride?

4164
03:57:44,960 --> 03:57:48,640
Speaker 2: Remember that ride? The Hemmel was the sled Because I

4165
03:57:48,800 --> 03:57:52,680
Speaker 2: was not a ride freak. I'd get motion sick real quick.

4166
03:57:53,520 --> 03:57:56,040
Speaker 2: But that ride with the mirror balloman and the guy

4167
03:57:56,200 --> 03:57:59,600
Speaker 2: was up there ex connor and escape the microphone around

4168
03:57:59,640 --> 03:58:02,960
Speaker 2: his neck, going you want to go faster? That's all

4169
03:58:02,960 --> 03:58:05,920
Speaker 2: I would yell, and it would be all right.

4170
03:58:05,840 --> 03:58:09,400
Speaker 1: Now, Well the other thing do you have? It was

4171
03:58:09,440 --> 03:58:12,440
Speaker 1: a double CD. Now there are no CDs. There's a

4172
03:58:12,600 --> 03:58:17,280
Speaker 1: free anthology called Molten Gold. I was a free fan.

4173
03:58:17,680 --> 03:58:21,280
Speaker 1: I bought that album Fire and Water. There is shiit

4174
03:58:21,440 --> 03:58:25,880
Speaker 1: on that album. You know there's I'll be Creeping.

4175
03:58:28,280 --> 03:58:29,880
Speaker 2: All I knew was all right now.

4176
03:58:30,200 --> 03:58:32,560
Speaker 1: Okay, and they have the Steeler. Do you know the Steeler?

4177
03:58:32,800 --> 03:58:35,600
Speaker 2: I've heard the Steeler because.

4178
03:58:35,320 --> 03:58:37,880
Speaker 1: Even Bob, you know, Bob Secret had all those Bob

4179
03:58:37,920 --> 03:58:42,600
Speaker 1: Segart was on Capitol, went to Warner Brothers, then back

4180
03:58:42,640 --> 03:58:46,680
Speaker 1: to Capitol when he went back to the Capitol, right yeah, okay,

4181
03:58:47,040 --> 03:58:50,440
Speaker 1: well the Silver Bullet Man was on Capitol, right.

4182
03:58:50,640 --> 03:58:51,680
Speaker 2: Yes, that was.

4183
03:58:52,200 --> 03:58:55,240
Speaker 1: He came back with the Beautiful Loser album in nineteen

4184
03:58:55,320 --> 03:58:59,240
Speaker 1: seventy five, right, But all the albums that he made

4185
03:58:59,320 --> 03:59:05,200
Speaker 1: on Warner others he refuses to release really, which is

4186
03:59:05,480 --> 03:59:06,000
Speaker 1: just pause.

4187
03:59:06,240 --> 03:59:08,120
Speaker 2: You and I have to talk about the insanity of

4188
03:59:08,280 --> 03:59:12,360
Speaker 2: fighting streaming. Come on, you know it's not that horse

4189
03:59:12,440 --> 03:59:14,920
Speaker 2: is at the barn. You're not going to bring it back,

4190
03:59:15,640 --> 03:59:16,200
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

4191
03:59:16,800 --> 03:59:18,800
Speaker 1: And it's like the song believe I know I mean,

4192
03:59:18,880 --> 03:59:22,080
Speaker 1: but people don't know. I'm back in seventy two, which

4193
03:59:22,160 --> 03:59:23,040
Speaker 1: is a great album.

4194
03:59:23,200 --> 03:59:23,520
Speaker 2: Was that on.

4195
03:59:25,680 --> 03:59:28,760
Speaker 1: The Katmandu was on Beautiful Loser and then on Live

4196
03:59:28,840 --> 03:59:34,720
Speaker 1: Bullet in seventy five six? Okay, but the original version

4197
03:59:34,800 --> 03:59:37,440
Speaker 1: of Turned the Page, which is now seen as a

4198
03:59:37,520 --> 03:59:39,560
Speaker 1: Metallica song, do you know that song.

4199
03:59:40,120 --> 03:59:44,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, ohly, I know Bob Seger's good loop Segret. It's

4200
03:59:44,680 --> 03:59:49,000
Speaker 2: it's haunting, it's unbelievable to turn the page, Seeger. And

4201
03:59:49,120 --> 03:59:52,400
Speaker 2: that's that Detroit stuff, because you know, Seeger was working

4202
03:59:52,480 --> 03:59:56,680
Speaker 2: with Mitch Ryder when he was and Mit Mitch oh

4203
03:59:56,880 --> 03:59:59,840
Speaker 2: Man and Pete told me a story when he said

4204
04:00:00,080 --> 04:00:03,240
Speaker 2: want and saw the writer ramp through the Peppermint Lounge

4205
04:00:03,280 --> 04:00:07,120
Speaker 2: and then just released Jenny Jenny, and you know, right

4206
04:00:07,200 --> 04:00:10,640
Speaker 2: right right, he said. And they came on stage, he said,

4207
04:00:10,800 --> 04:00:13,360
Speaker 2: the Fox, we're all down there in Detroit, and he said,

4208
04:00:13,400 --> 04:00:15,800
Speaker 2: we're all jit he said. And they come on stage

4209
04:00:16,120 --> 04:00:18,680
Speaker 2: and they stand with their backs to the audience and

4210
04:00:18,840 --> 04:00:22,120
Speaker 2: start playing with their backs to the audience. He said.

4211
04:00:22,240 --> 04:00:24,640
Speaker 2: They do one whole song, they do another song there

4212
04:00:24,640 --> 04:00:27,680
Speaker 2: in the third song, and they won't turn around. Now,

4213
04:00:27,760 --> 04:00:31,480
Speaker 2: he said, Detroit people are throwing shoes and throwing shit,

4214
04:00:31,560 --> 04:00:35,120
Speaker 2: and he said, and all Seger did was hold his

4215
04:00:35,440 --> 04:00:38,200
Speaker 2: middle finger up over his shoulder and keep singing with

4216
04:00:38,320 --> 04:00:41,280
Speaker 2: his back to the ground, he said. And then when

4217
04:00:41,320 --> 04:00:45,080
Speaker 2: they turned around on the next song, he said, the

4218
04:00:45,240 --> 04:00:49,280
Speaker 2: place came apart. And I said, well, that's theater, right,

4219
04:00:49,680 --> 04:00:50,280
Speaker 2: that's theater.

4220
04:00:50,400 --> 04:00:52,160
Speaker 1: Well, Okay, I got to tell you one more story.

4221
04:00:52,240 --> 04:00:57,240
Speaker 1: My friend Richard Griffiths, who ran Virgin Publishing and Epic

4222
04:00:57,480 --> 04:00:59,680
Speaker 1: and as a maniter in one direction a million other

4223
04:00:59,760 --> 04:01:03,320
Speaker 1: ates at this point, started out as an agent and

4224
04:01:03,440 --> 04:01:07,040
Speaker 1: he was the agent for Backstreet Crawler, which was Paul

4225
04:01:07,160 --> 04:01:11,280
Speaker 1: cass Off, a Freeze group after free broke up. Now

4226
04:01:11,480 --> 04:01:15,760
Speaker 1: Paul was he not the bass player, the kid, no please,

4227
04:01:15,800 --> 04:01:16,560
Speaker 1: the guitar player.

4228
04:01:16,640 --> 04:01:19,440
Speaker 2: Okay, but the kid bass player you know, wrote that

4229
04:01:19,600 --> 04:01:21,560
Speaker 2: in the dressing room. They came right right, right right,

4230
04:01:21,640 --> 04:01:23,560
Speaker 2: said we got to have something up to go off. Well,

4231
04:01:23,560 --> 04:01:26,400
Speaker 2: we can't just keep going off with blues. It's down man,

4232
04:01:26,720 --> 04:01:28,600
Speaker 2: And he's walking around banging and.

4233
04:01:32,440 --> 04:01:35,360
Speaker 1: Listen Chris Blackwell, who they were on island, He says

4234
04:01:35,480 --> 04:01:37,760
Speaker 1: they were the best act. That was the best act

4235
04:01:37,840 --> 04:01:39,960
Speaker 1: he had. They were just too young free well.

4236
04:01:40,240 --> 04:01:43,200
Speaker 2: But in any event, never not had a hit with

4237
04:01:43,320 --> 04:01:46,160
Speaker 2: anything he's ever done, any band. It was the next

4238
04:01:46,200 --> 04:01:47,720
Speaker 2: one's bad company. Well.

4239
04:01:47,720 --> 04:01:51,200
Speaker 1: The other thing about Paul Rodgers is he can still sing.

4240
04:01:51,480 --> 04:01:55,480
Speaker 1: Oh man, I mean most of those guys cannot, but

4241
04:01:55,960 --> 04:01:56,440
Speaker 1: he can.

4242
04:01:56,440 --> 04:02:00,560
Speaker 2: Still deliver about Paul Rogers was sitting somewhere with me

4243
04:02:00,720 --> 04:02:04,680
Speaker 2: just it's weird. Because they'd asked me to do this

4244
04:02:04,880 --> 04:02:07,360
Speaker 2: duet thing he's doing and we're trying to schedule and

4245
04:02:07,720 --> 04:02:09,680
Speaker 2: them coming in and out. I think he might have

4246
04:02:09,720 --> 04:02:12,400
Speaker 2: had a little bit of help. Stuff go on. There's

4247
04:02:12,400 --> 04:02:14,440
Speaker 2: a Paul Rodgers album on foot that he's going to

4248
04:02:14,480 --> 04:02:17,160
Speaker 2: do what And I said, man, I'm are you kidding?

4249
04:02:18,200 --> 04:02:20,840
Speaker 2: Just a school boy when I heard his very beetlestall

4250
04:02:21,480 --> 04:02:21,840
Speaker 2: love him?

4251
04:02:21,960 --> 04:02:23,360
Speaker 1: Oh think it wasn't from there.

4252
04:02:23,360 --> 04:02:25,200
Speaker 2: It didn't take him long, don't you know?

4253
04:02:26,240 --> 04:02:27,000
Speaker 1: Don't you know?

4254
04:02:27,880 --> 04:02:33,080
Speaker 2: Don't you know shooting that? You are shooting stuff, don't

4255
04:02:33,160 --> 04:02:33,400
Speaker 2: you know?

4256
04:02:34,320 --> 04:02:39,000
Speaker 1: Ye Oh God? In the second side, good loving, gone bad,

4257
04:02:39,440 --> 04:02:42,400
Speaker 1: all of it. And on the first album s the

4258
04:02:42,560 --> 04:02:43,920
Speaker 1: Firm What chi mean, Paige?

4259
04:02:44,480 --> 04:02:44,600
Speaker 2: Right?

4260
04:02:44,760 --> 04:02:46,240
Speaker 1: Absolutely they had a hit.

4261
04:02:46,320 --> 04:02:50,160
Speaker 2: Then he did in the nineties Bobby did the Law

4262
04:02:50,360 --> 04:02:52,240
Speaker 2: and they had a hit laying.

4263
04:02:52,080 --> 04:02:55,760
Speaker 1: Down the law. Yeah, I know because the same manager

4264
04:02:55,880 --> 04:02:59,320
Speaker 1: is the manager of Ceezy top All was the one

4265
04:03:00,120 --> 04:03:00,760
Speaker 1: send me the record.

4266
04:03:00,840 --> 04:03:01,680
Speaker 2: I still have the record.

4267
04:03:01,760 --> 04:03:05,880
Speaker 1: You can't even find that. But in any event, so

4268
04:03:06,120 --> 04:03:11,080
Speaker 1: he's the manager for he's the agent. Paul Kasof is

4269
04:03:11,160 --> 04:03:14,680
Speaker 1: the act. Paul Kassoff dies on the plane from New

4270
04:03:14,800 --> 04:03:21,680
Speaker 1: York to London. The opening act is ac DC, but

4271
04:03:21,840 --> 04:03:26,680
Speaker 1: the headliner is gone. A CDC says, we're going on

4272
04:03:26,960 --> 04:03:32,040
Speaker 1: anyway in this club, okay, there are five people there.

4273
04:03:32,680 --> 04:03:35,600
Speaker 1: You walk down the stairs and to this club in England. Okay,

4274
04:03:36,320 --> 04:03:40,200
Speaker 1: they do the whole fucking act. They carry uh what's

4275
04:03:40,240 --> 04:03:43,440
Speaker 1: his name around on the shoulders. You know, they're playing

4276
04:03:43,440 --> 04:03:46,520
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. As soon as yeah, as soon as

4277
04:03:46,600 --> 04:03:50,880
Speaker 1: the act is over, angus young. So as soon as

4278
04:03:50,920 --> 04:03:55,240
Speaker 1: it's over, the five people, the five people run out

4279
04:03:55,280 --> 04:03:59,800
Speaker 1: of the building and my friend is freaking out, not home.

4280
04:04:00,440 --> 04:04:03,760
Speaker 1: Did the guy died? Five people came and they immediately left.

4281
04:04:04,560 --> 04:04:06,000
Speaker 2: What they didn't know was.

4282
04:04:07,520 --> 04:04:10,000
Speaker 1: They were so blown away that all those five people

4283
04:04:10,480 --> 04:04:12,320
Speaker 1: ran out to the phone booth. They called me and said,

4284
04:04:12,440 --> 04:04:14,360
Speaker 1: you're not going to believe this. You have to come

4285
04:04:14,480 --> 04:04:18,640
Speaker 1: back for the second show completely full. But he got

4286
04:04:18,720 --> 04:04:20,080
Speaker 1: fired as the agent anyway.

4287
04:04:21,360 --> 04:04:22,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh.

4288
04:04:24,120 --> 04:04:28,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but you talk about theater, it used to

4289
04:04:28,160 --> 04:04:31,520
Speaker 1: be you had to go see the act, Yeah, because

4290
04:04:31,600 --> 04:04:34,920
Speaker 1: they would never play certain songs from the album again,

4291
04:04:35,480 --> 04:04:37,720
Speaker 1: and you would come home and tell people say you're

4292
04:04:37,760 --> 04:04:39,760
Speaker 1: not going to believe it. Yeah, it's like I remember

4293
04:04:39,840 --> 04:04:43,600
Speaker 1: seeing Ziggy stardust Rales Cooper Killer.

4294
04:04:43,760 --> 04:04:44,760
Speaker 2: So you're not going to believe it.

4295
04:04:44,840 --> 04:04:46,800
Speaker 1: You have to come with me the next time. Now,

4296
04:04:46,880 --> 04:04:49,080
Speaker 1: there's none of that because everybody sees everything.

4297
04:04:49,600 --> 04:04:53,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they think they did, but there's still nothing

4298
04:04:53,680 --> 04:04:56,560
Speaker 2: like it live. You see it live. I saw Steely

4299
04:04:56,680 --> 04:04:59,720
Speaker 2: Dan in Ohio State. They came out with that second

4300
04:04:59,760 --> 04:05:02,040
Speaker 2: A in their debut. They said, here's something new. We're

4301
04:05:02,080 --> 04:05:04,720
Speaker 2: just cutting it with Ricky, don't lose that number. And

4302
04:05:04,880 --> 04:05:07,400
Speaker 2: I was up in the upper deck of that arena

4303
04:05:07,560 --> 04:05:10,640
Speaker 2: was an old where the old basketball arena, and it

4304
04:05:10,720 --> 04:05:12,520
Speaker 2: was up there in the nose but in Washington, And

4305
04:05:12,560 --> 04:05:15,840
Speaker 2: as soon as you heard, We're like, Wow, that's a hit,

4306
04:05:16,120 --> 04:05:18,520
Speaker 2: It's like, Ricky, don't lose.

4307
04:05:19,560 --> 04:05:22,640
Speaker 1: Okay, one final question, We're gonna go, who have you

4308
04:05:22,920 --> 04:05:24,960
Speaker 1: not met that you'd like to meet?

4309
04:05:25,640 --> 04:05:35,600
Speaker 2: Alive? Wow? Alive? That's the trick because there are people

4310
04:05:35,680 --> 04:05:37,800
Speaker 2: that I've not had the chance to meet that died

4311
04:05:37,920 --> 04:05:40,480
Speaker 2: that I would have maybe had a chance to meet.

4312
04:05:41,600 --> 04:05:44,840
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of it as anybody that I've

4313
04:05:44,880 --> 04:05:49,920
Speaker 2: actually I've met, Robert plant Uh and you know Fan Up,

4314
04:05:50,120 --> 04:05:56,560
Speaker 2: you know guys somebody that used that he's deceased. God,

4315
04:05:56,560 --> 04:05:59,120
Speaker 2: I would have loved to met Sam Cook. You know,

4316
04:05:59,360 --> 04:06:02,880
Speaker 2: I'm i'm, I'm bending the margins here for your parameters.

4317
04:06:02,920 --> 04:06:06,520
Speaker 2: But but I just think that's one of the tragedies

4318
04:06:06,800 --> 04:06:10,720
Speaker 2: of early death ever. And what a pinky weird deal

4319
04:06:10,840 --> 04:06:13,840
Speaker 2: that was, you know. And and it's still this dad

4320
04:06:14,000 --> 04:06:16,840
Speaker 2: thing somewhat dubious as to how he got set up,

4321
04:06:17,120 --> 04:06:19,960
Speaker 2: you know, that night with it. I mean, when you

4322
04:06:20,080 --> 04:06:23,400
Speaker 2: think about what he did, what he was doing the

4323
04:06:23,520 --> 04:06:26,320
Speaker 2: father of so really Sam Cook, you know, in terms

4324
04:06:26,360 --> 04:06:30,120
Speaker 2: of taking gospel style stuff and bringing I mean, what

4325
04:06:30,320 --> 04:06:33,960
Speaker 2: he was doing the songs he wrote. Bob, I mean, anyway,

4326
04:06:34,080 --> 04:06:37,200
Speaker 2: so you you limited me to somebody alive, you know

4327
04:06:37,280 --> 04:06:38,880
Speaker 2: what I'll know the next time we talk.

4328
04:06:39,640 --> 04:06:42,760
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll leave it here, otherwise we'll be talking into

4329
04:06:42,800 --> 04:06:45,840
Speaker 1: the next century. In any event, I want to thank.

4330
04:06:45,680 --> 04:06:46,160
Speaker 2: You, Dwight.

4331
04:06:46,440 --> 04:06:48,960
Speaker 1: Till next time. This is Bob left Sex